[0:29] We're gonna Whoa, that is really loud.

[0:31] I'm sorry. We're going to get ready here

[0:33] in just a minute. If everybody can uh if

[0:36] you want to drink the restroom, we'll

[0:38] get rolling here in just a couple

[0:40] minutes.

[1:17] Okay. Can everybody hear me? Okay, it's

[1:19] good. Um, so I'm going to quickly

[1:22] introduce myself, uh, do some

[1:24] housekeeping information, and then I'm

[1:26] going to hand it off to Commissioner

[1:27] Rossman. Uh, my name is Will Hunt. I'm

[1:30] the director of planning, GIS, and

[1:32] community development. Um, I welcome

[1:34] everybody here this meeting. We're

[1:36] really anxious to hear the information

[1:37] that we're going to have tonight. Um,

[1:40] the planning commission has been having

[1:41] this as a regular topic here uh on the

[1:44] planning commission agendas since

[1:46] earlier this winter and uh, you know, we

[1:50] were able to get this organized and uh,

[1:52] Commissioner Rossman will go into a

[1:53] little bit deeper background of what's

[1:55] been going on. So, we really appreciate

[1:57] everybody coming out. Hopefully, it

[1:59] seems like there's a lot of food, so

[2:01] make sure we grab some food. Um, just

[2:04] for some housekeeping, the way that you

[2:05] came in is the way that you come out.

[2:08] Um, and so the only exit would be there.

[2:10] There is this exit that that is locked

[2:13] to go out this way. Um, and back out the

[2:16] same village you came in. There's

[2:18] restrooms downstairs and upstairs. So,

[2:21] if you go down the steps to the right

[2:23] about halfway down the hall, there

[2:24] should be restrooms and similar on the

[2:26] second floor upstairs. Um, if you do

[2:29] have any questions, you can grab any of

[2:31] us uh and help you get to those

[2:33] locations. But, um, again, I'm going to

[2:35] introduce Commissioner Rossman. He's

[2:37] going to do some opening remarks and

[2:39] then we'll get this presentation

[2:40] rolling. So, thank you.

[2:44] » Thank you. Welcome. I just I guess first

[2:46] I'll start on how we got here. uh a

[2:48] couple year year and a half ago uh I was

[2:51] a little concerned about solar energy,

[2:54] wind energy

[2:56] and the destruction that's done to our

[2:59] land and our forest and I got in contact

[3:03] with Commissioner Mcclinko.

[3:07] I got in contact

[3:09] with Commissioner Mcclinko from Bradford

[3:12] County who happens to be the chair or

[3:15] the president of the America's Rural

[3:18] Energy Coalition. It's not a lobbying

[3:21] group. It's a group that was put

[3:22] together to protect land owners from the

[3:26] gas leases, I believe. So, with that,

[3:28] I'm going to introduce Doug so he can

[3:30] tell you more about the ARC and we'll

[3:33] get moving on here.

[3:37] Thanks Bob and thank you uh Potter

[3:41] County for hosting this tonight. It's

[3:42] pretty important but ARC is actually an

[3:44] education organization. We're in 11

[3:47] different states across the the United

[3:49] States from California all the way to

[3:52] Ohio. We have people, you know, from DC

[3:55] that are in it, Louisiana, Texas. Um so

[3:59] what we do is we educate and we support

[4:02] all energy. you know, I'm basically

[4:04] everything below. You know, I'm not a

[4:06] big fan of solar or windmills. However,

[4:09] I'm a private property rights guy. So, I

[4:11] would completely defend somebody's um

[4:15] desire to put anything on their

[4:16] property. So, um but you know, it's it's

[4:20] interesting, too, if I could just take a

[4:21] minute. Um you mentioned solar and wind.

[4:25] You know, I just went to one of the best

[4:26] conferences I've ever gone to. And

[4:28] there's going to be a fellow come here,

[4:30] uh, Justin Mason here shortly, and we as

[4:34] commissioners in Pennsylvania taxing is

[4:37] I'm not a tax guy either. However, um,

[4:40] our our windmill in in solar, what we

[4:44] what we're allowed to tax here in in

[4:46] Pennsylvania is peanuts to other part

[4:48] other states. It was the the uh

[4:50] conference I went to had 30

[4:52] commissioners from uh I can't remember

[4:54] how many states, but but in Bradford

[4:57] County, a windmill is 400 bucks a year.

[5:01] That's what that's what you can tax. But

[5:03] today, we're here to talk about nuclear.

[5:05] And this to me is pretty exciting. I

[5:07] think that you guys are going to be

[5:08] talking about a little bit about storage

[5:10] and other things. I think knowing you

[5:12] guys, you'll be able to answer all our

[5:13] questions on nuclear or most of them.

[5:16] And what's really cool about today is

[5:18] the data center conversation, you know,

[5:21] with the I think they're co-generation

[5:23] plants, the smaller nuclear pods that

[5:25] they're I don't know if there'll be a

[5:27] lot of discussion there, but nuclear is

[5:29] going to come to the front of come to

[5:31] the forefront of energy, you know, next

[5:34] to a gas well. Give me a good

[5:35] oldfashioned nuclear cooling tower and

[5:37] I'm good. So, um, with that, uh, Bob,

[5:40] who would, uh, who we got up next? We

[5:43] got a Andrew. Okay,

[5:47] we like to thank you guys for coming,

[5:49] too. I mean, this is uh I've been

[5:51] looking forward to this. It's going to

[5:52] be pretty interesting. So, here you go.

[5:56] » Thank you, Doug.

[5:58] I am very wow, I don't need to use my

[6:02] teacher voice. I am very happy to be

[6:05] here. My name is there on the screen,

[6:08] Marilyn Dunzik Galer. I'm actually a

[6:10] professor of nuclear engineering at

[6:12] Idaho State University where I also run

[6:16] our little reactor facility. But the

[6:18] reason I really wanted to be here

[6:20] tonight is because I grew up in

[6:23] Pennsylvania in Dolphin County. I have

[6:26] family in Elisburg, not that far away.

[6:30] Pennsylvania is is in my roots and

[6:32] nuclear is in my heart. So the

[6:35] combination was bound to happen. So, I

[6:39] just want to give you an overview of who

[6:42] ANS is because I'm here as a member of

[6:46] the American Nuclear Society.

[6:49] I don't do this on a professional basis.

[6:52] I'm just passionate about nuclear. And

[6:54] like many professions, uh, the American

[6:58] Nuclear Society is my professional

[7:01] organization.

[7:03] Button down. Got it. Okay. Uh, how do I

[7:09] do this part?

[7:11] A little bit about the American Nuclear

[7:13] Society.

[8:19] You don't need to be a nuclear nuclear

[8:22] professional to join ANS. But that's a

[8:26] little bit about who we are and what we

[8:27] do.

[8:29] Like I said, many professions have a

[8:31] professional society. But ANS is the

[8:35] dominant the leading organization for

[8:38] nuclear science and technology.

[8:41] Many of you will have heard of the Adams

[8:43] for Peace speech that President

[8:45] Roosevelt gave to the United Nations in

[8:48] the 50s. The ANS was created to help

[8:52] foster that idea of using this newfound

[8:56] nuclear information to benefit people.

[9:02] So, we do again what many associations

[9:04] do. Um, we have publications that

[9:08] highlight the work that's going on in

[9:10] the industry, develop standards for the

[9:12] industry. We have meetings and

[9:14] conferences that allow us as

[9:17] professionals to stay up to date with

[9:20] what's happening in the industry, but

[9:21] also present our own work.

[9:25] We try to support the upand cominging

[9:28] nuclear professionals with scholarships

[9:31] to students at both the high school and

[9:34] college level and we try to do a lot of

[9:38] public engagement and that is part of

[9:41] why we are here today

[9:44] about 12,000 members not only in the US

[9:48] uh we have many international members

[9:50] even though the name of our society is

[9:52] the American nuclear society.

[9:55] We have also organizational members. So

[9:58] an entire organization will become a

[10:01] member and default the employees of that

[10:03] organization would be a member. We hold

[10:06] conferences. We um have organized

[10:10] ourselves in professional divisions

[10:14] because if you say nuclear there are a

[10:17] lot of subd disciplines. For example,

[10:19] one division might focus on operating

[10:22] nuclear power plants. Another division

[10:25] might better go on uh the use of medical

[10:29] isotopes. A whole different animal. So,

[10:32] we have those divisions.

[10:35] All right. What I want to do tonight is

[10:38] to answer a few questions that I pose

[10:41] and then hopefully answer all those that

[10:43] you'd like to pose. The first is why

[10:46] would you even consider nuclear

[10:48] engineering?

[10:50] Well, one motivation that many

[10:53] proponents of nuclear have is that they

[10:57] want a reliable method of producing

[11:00] electricity that doesn't emit carbon

[11:02] dioxide. And nuclear checks that box.

[11:06] You can see the statistics for yourself.

[11:09] If you look at the entire life cycle,

[11:13] not just while the power plant is

[11:15] operating, but from cradle to grave,

[11:19] well, nuclear is pretty good. It's

[11:22] actually even better than hydro power or

[11:26] solar

[11:27] PV photo voltaic. You don't typically

[11:31] hear about that because people just talk

[11:33] about what's happening while it's

[11:35] operating. Not all that was required to

[11:38] mine the mineral you need and process it

[11:40] and and transport and then what you have

[11:44] to do after you dismantle the plant.

[11:48] So you can see on the right of the slide

[11:51] what we have in the US in terms of

[11:55] distribution of where our electricity

[11:57] comes from.

[11:58] We are at about 18% nuclear. Not

[12:02] surprising to you, I'm sure, is that the

[12:04] majority is fossil fuel, natural gas,

[12:07] and coal. And then about 24% renewables.

[12:15] Oops, I forgot.

[12:19] Another reason to consider nuclear is

[12:21] the increasing demand for electricity.

[12:24] I'm sure you've all been hearing about

[12:26] data centers and how they are energy

[12:30] sponges and if you send all the

[12:33] electricity to them, what about you at

[12:35] home? Where does that power come from?

[12:38] And many of the AI companies are looking

[12:41] for ways to support the energy

[12:45] infrastructure to the extent that for

[12:48] example uh AWS Talon has proposed and

[12:54] promised essentially an $18 billion

[12:57] power purchase agreement for Susuana

[13:00] nuclear power plant here in

[13:02] Pennsylvania. That's big dollars.

[13:05] Microsoft has a 20-year power purchase

[13:08] agreement to open the unit of free mile

[13:11] island that operated until that that

[13:14] many years ago. They are renaming it

[13:17] crane clean energy center.

[13:21] Then things like

[13:23] directives from the government,

[13:25] governmental New York said, "Okay, our

[13:29] authority develop five gigawatts of new

[13:32] nuclear

[13:34] upstate in New York." If you're not real

[13:37] comfortable with these megawatt numbers,

[13:40] don't worry. I'll give you some

[13:41] comparisons in a minute to get a feel

[13:43] for how big or little that is.

[13:46] And also uh since President Trump

[13:50] started in his second term, he put out

[13:53] executive orders specific to nuclear

[13:56] trying to uh move the industry along,

[14:00] get uh new nuclear plants filled, maybe

[14:04] advanced designs,

[14:06] but he wants 10 large new reactors under

[14:09] construction by 2030.

[14:12] So, lots of movement in the nuclear

[14:14] energy sector. Another reason why you

[14:17] might consider nuclear is jobs

[14:21] for a typical thousand megawatt plant.

[14:25] And again, hold on. I'll give you some

[14:27] context for those numbers in a bit.

[14:29] You're talking 715 well-paying jobs,

[14:33] average salary shown there of about

[14:36] 100,000.

[14:38] And not just the people who work at the

[14:40] plant, but the supporting industry, you

[14:43] know, the places that manufacture the

[14:46] components or manufacture the fuel, all

[14:49] of that infrastructure, they are good

[14:51] paying jobs. And ironically, for a

[14:55] technical field, 34% female workforce.

[15:00] I went to graduate school in nuclear

[15:02] engineering and I am very used to being

[15:06] the only female in the group to the

[15:09] point where when I'm in a big room with

[15:11] a lot of women I feel a little nervous.

[15:13] So that really is an unusual statistic.

[15:19] There's some more example of salaries

[15:21] across different

[15:24] supporting roles for a nuclear power

[15:26] plant. very healthy.

[15:30] So that's the why you might consider.

[15:33] Let's look at the nuclear industry. Now

[15:36] in the US there are 94 reactors you see

[15:40] in the left and they are at 53 plants.

[15:45] So one plant might have more than one

[15:47] reactor at the site.

[15:51] There will be number 95. I keep trying

[15:54] to use the pointer but it doesn't show

[15:56] up here. Number 95 will be in Michigan

[16:01] Palisades plant which is shut down. It's

[16:04] going to be restarted. Three mile island

[16:07] unit one I just mentioned will be 96 in

[16:11] Dwayne Arnold in Iowa. These are all

[16:13] plans that operated for decades. They

[16:15] were my apologies. They were shut down

[16:18] but are going to be reopened because of

[16:21] the value of of this infrastructure and

[16:24] the fact that we can get this energy uh

[16:28] reliably

[16:31] and not release CO2.

[16:34] On the right I find this plot sort of

[16:37] interesting. The different colors

[16:39] indicate where the majority of

[16:42] electricity comes from. So, I mentioned

[16:44] I was from Idaho and while home is still

[16:48] Pennsylvania to me, my kids were raised

[16:51] there. So, that's home now. But in that

[16:54] northeast area, sort of turquoise color,

[16:57] we are very lucky to have hydro power

[17:00] and so our power bill is pretty low. The

[17:02] other colors correspond to gas, that

[17:06] dark blue, coal in that sort of dark

[17:09] purple color. Wind in couple of the

[17:12] plain states, nuclear are those orange

[17:15] states.

[17:19] Let's focus in just a little bit more

[17:22] because it's kind of hard to see where

[17:23] you might fit in. Uh, you're

[17:26] Pennsylvania is in the dominant gas

[17:29] mode, but you might be surprised to know

[17:32] that while you're dominated by gas,

[17:35] you're still 35% nuclear. Did you know

[17:38] that? Kind of surprising. This is for

[17:41] the PJM interconnection.

[17:44] And of course, after nuclear, there's

[17:47] the gas.

[17:52] In neighboring New York, 41% electricity

[17:56] is nuclear in upstate New York. That's

[18:00] uh from ISO instead of PJM.

[18:05] Now, these plants I'm talking about, the

[18:07] 94 and soon to be uh 97, they go into

[18:12] the large category. They're all about a

[18:14] thousand megawatts electric. All right.

[18:16] Now, here's my way of giving you a feel

[18:19] for how big that is. a thousand megawatt

[18:23] electric plant could

[18:26] support

[18:28] the power needs for a rather large city.

[18:32] We're talking um 700,000 homes, for

[18:37] example, plus the associated businesses.

[18:41] That's a lot of energy.

[18:44] What's happening as we move forward is

[18:46] we'll still have some large plants. They

[18:48] have a a role and they are the backbone

[18:51] of our current industry. But we're

[18:53] seeing a lot of development with smaller

[18:56] reactors.

[18:57] From the right, a small reactor is

[19:00] considered about a few hundred megawws

[19:04] electric. So about a third. Then there's

[19:07] mini about tens of megawws. And then

[19:11] micro, which is just a few microw. So

[19:15] these have potential to do things

[19:18] differently than the big plants because

[19:22] they're more flexible. They're smaller

[19:25] and they can be used for things other

[19:27] than making electricity. So right now

[19:30] our large plants, they make electricity

[19:33] period. But the idea is that some of the

[19:36] advanced designs are going to be

[19:38] flexible enough to do things like make

[19:41] hydrogen if we ended up using hydrogen

[19:44] fuel cells for transportation or maybe

[19:47] used for process heat. An example there

[19:50] is Dowo Chemical. You probably all heard

[19:54] of Dowo Chemical. They have a plant in

[19:57] southern Texas where they process uh

[20:00] petroleum and and make the chemicals

[20:03] that they do right now. They burn fossil

[20:06] fuel to make the heat that they need to

[20:09] do the process. They would like to not

[20:11] burn that fossil fuel. And so they've

[20:14] contracted with a company called X

[20:16] Energy to build a small reactor for

[20:20] them. So they have that electricity

[20:25] Obviously, we talked about electricity

[20:28] use, but the process heat is something

[20:32] you don't hear about, but it's a big

[20:33] deal. Uh, making concrete, steel,

[20:37] even desalinating water, uh, are uses

[20:41] for nuclear that you don't hear much in

[20:44] the news, but are, uh, big energy needs.

[20:53] How many have heard the term small

[20:55] modular reactor? Anybody? Handful of

[20:58] you. Okay. So,

[21:01] the reason I asked because I said yes,

[21:03] small is a few hundred watts, but you'll

[21:06] often hear hear that middle word modular

[21:10] and it is significant in a lot of ways.

[21:13] For example, these reactors are being

[21:16] designed and demoed right now and in the

[21:20] near future. When they're ready for

[21:23] production at a high level, they're

[21:25] going to be factory built, partly free

[21:27] prefabricated.

[21:29] And that may sound like, eh, so what?

[21:33] Well, the thing is that all of the

[21:35] existing power plants in the US were

[21:38] built onsite and a lot of unique

[21:41] components and made it really expensive.

[21:44] So, the idea is let's get out of that

[21:46] bad loop. Uh, let's make multiple units

[21:49] that are all the same and they all fit

[21:51] together and they all use the same parts

[21:54] because when you go from one plant to

[21:56] another in the US, there are differences

[21:58] among every single plant.

[22:01] So, a little bit simple simpler in

[22:03] design than our current plants and

[22:06] enhanced passive safety features. What

[22:10] that means is instead of needing a pump

[22:14] to, for example, push cooling water into

[22:18] a reactor if there's an emergency, why

[22:21] not take the emergency water tank and

[22:25] put it at a higher elevation than the

[22:28] reactor? So if you need it, it'll just

[22:31] flow in by gravity feed. You don't have

[22:33] to pump it. So there a lot more passive

[22:36] features in these designs.

[22:38] More flexibility for financing,

[22:42] sighting, sizing, and what they actually

[22:44] will be used for. And again, hopefully

[22:47] reduced construction cost based on the

[22:50] factory construction.

[22:53] Flexibility and scalability refers to

[22:57] where it goes, how you use it. If you're

[23:00] considering a remote community or a

[23:04] country that doesn't have the big

[23:06] infrastructure you need for electricity

[23:08] transmission, you can't really flood

[23:11] that area with a thousand megawws.

[23:13] Electric ladies couldn't accommodate

[23:16] that. But maybe they could accommodate a

[23:18] few tens or a few hundreds megawatts. So

[23:21] there are ways that small reactors can

[23:24] meet needs the big reactors really

[23:26] can't.

[23:28] The military, for example, the army in

[23:31] particular is working to develop a micro

[23:35] reactor, just a few megawws

[23:38] for remote deployment. Well, things like

[23:43] military bases in Alaska, for example,

[23:46] where now they basically burn diesel.

[23:49] They have huge generators. They burn

[23:51] diesel fuel. Um when they uh we send

[23:54] troops overseas, especially when we were

[23:56] in the Middle East, they took along

[24:00] their diesel generators and the huge

[24:02] tanks of diesel fuel really inefficient

[24:05] and and vulnerable. So they're looking

[24:07] for can we get a little reactor that is

[24:09] mobile and we can take it with us.

[24:13] And then as a community would grow,

[24:16] let's say a small village type area, as

[24:19] their demand increases, you just add

[24:22] another unit. That's the modular aspect.

[24:25] You deploy one and when you need it, you

[24:28] deploy a second one and they all use the

[24:30] same infrastructure and have the same

[24:31] design manufacturer.

[24:35] Much more efficiency is potentially

[24:37] available with these designs in one

[24:40] sense. um efficiency because they can

[24:44] produce uh gas at a higher temperature

[24:47] than our current reactors. And if you

[24:49] ever study ther thermodynamics,

[24:52] basically the higher the temperature you

[24:54] can get to, the more use you can get out

[24:56] of that heat. And also these new designs

[25:00] are being

[25:02] made such that they can easily couple

[25:05] with wind and solar that you know

[25:09] fluctuate in their availability. Our

[25:11] current plants they're best operated

[25:14] full power non-stop for two years. I'm

[25:18] not kidding. Two years. But that doesn't

[25:21] allow for the fluctuation of wind and

[25:23] solar. And so the newer designs are

[25:25] going to be able to accommodate that a

[25:27] little bit better.

[25:30] Very interestingly, um, one of the

[25:33] efforts in deploying new reactors in

[25:36] order to take advantage of that

[25:38] infrastructure to transmit energy,

[25:41] they're using sites that were formerly

[25:43] coal plants. And the first one will be

[25:46] in Keer, Wyoming, which is neighboring

[25:50] to Idaho. I've actually driven through

[25:52] Chem a couple times. They're going to be

[25:54] building a plant there. The DOE put out

[25:58] a guide. If you can see that the map,

[26:00] the numbers in the map, that's the

[26:02] number of sites that DOE says, "Yeah,

[26:05] you could put a nuclear here and

[26:07] infrastructure is good.

[26:10] Now what is happening in the reactor now

[26:14] that you have a a view of the landscape

[26:16] of

[26:18] the different types of reactors and how

[26:20] they might be used

[26:22] instead of burning fossil fuel in which

[26:25] bas basically you're you're taking a

[26:28] carbon atom and reacting it with oxygen

[26:30] and that releases heat. Well, we're not

[26:33] burning anything. We're not reacting

[26:36] anything with oxygen. What we're doing

[26:38] is creating a system in which uranium

[26:41] 235 will absorb a neutron. Uranium 235

[26:46] loves neutrons. It's a neutron sponge.

[26:49] In natural uranium, there's uranium 235.

[26:53] Uranium 238. Those flavors. Those

[26:56] numbers 235 and 238. That's the number

[27:00] of particles they have in the nucleus.

[27:02] So they're very similar. They're only

[27:04] different by three particles, three

[27:06] neutrons. But that difference

[27:10] is huge in terms of how that atom will

[27:13] behave in a nuclear reactor.

[27:16] So when it absorbs a neutron, it just

[27:19] basically splits apart. We call that

[27:21] fision. When that splitting occurs, a

[27:24] huge amount of heat energy is released.

[27:28] And by huge I mean 200 million times

[27:32] more than oxidizing a carbon atom. 200

[27:37] million times more than you get from

[27:41] fossil fuel.

[27:45] This is actually some nuclear fuel with

[27:48] uranium going into one of the two newest

[27:51] nuclear power plants we have in the US.

[27:54] Bogo 3 and Vogel 4. It's hard to get uh

[27:57] scale here, but this is a fuel assembly

[28:01] going into the reactor vessel. Let me

[28:04] elaborate on that. So, the fuel

[28:09] or nuclear power plants is the size of

[28:13] this little pellet you see on this card

[28:15] here. And there are some more cards

[28:16] there if you want to take them home for

[28:18] show and tell. These are stacked up into

[28:22] really long tubes as shown here. And

[28:25] then the tubes are arranged in

[28:29] um a square type of array. We call them

[28:31] fuel assemblies. These are about 12 to

[28:35] 14 ft tall. And that's because the

[28:38] reactor vessels are really tall as well.

[28:43] I mentioned the 200 million times more.

[28:46] Here are some examples of what I mean.

[28:49] So when I'm teaching at the university,

[28:51] especially my freshman class, freshmen

[28:53] are so much fun.

[28:55] I say, "Okay, if you had this weird

[28:58] habit, I'm sure you have no weird

[28:59] habits, but if you did and it was you

[29:03] like to hang out outside of power

[29:04] plants, I mean, that is a little weird,

[29:06] right? If they hung out outside of a

[29:08] coal power plant, they would have a

[29:11] nonstop

[29:13] train loads of coal coming through 247

[29:18] because the power density so low

[29:22] compared to nuclear. That little pellet

[29:24] on that card

[29:27] would generate as much energy as 1780

[29:32] pounds of coal. That's multiple loads of

[29:36] uh train cars or 150 gallons of oil, 17

[29:42] million BTUs of natural gas. Now, don't

[29:45] think I'm anti fossil. I'm not. I love

[29:48] fossil fuels. They got us to where we

[29:50] are with our standard of living. They

[29:52] helped us build this country and there

[29:55] are great applications for fossil. But I

[29:58] sort of think of it like well think back

[30:01] before the industrial revolution where

[30:04] we burned wood or cow dung or pete

[30:07] whatever it was. The air was dirty. The

[30:10] water was dirty. Standard of living was

[30:12] not good. People died at 35. Right? When

[30:15] we discovered fossil fuels it changed

[30:18] everything. Quality of life improved. um

[30:22] the age of uh expected age dying

[30:26] improved. So my thinking is okay, the

[30:29] next logical step is to even more energy

[30:32] dense nuclear. We'll go there. We'll get

[30:35] there. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but

[30:38] it's inevitable because humans are even

[30:41] though we do stupid stuff once in a

[30:43] while, overall our species is pretty

[30:45] clever. We figure things out.

[30:50] So this little mic this little cartoon

[30:54] is showing you how a typical power plant

[30:57] works. In the US about twothirds of our

[31:00] power plants are of this design where

[31:03] the fuel is inside

[31:06] those long rods I told you about.

[31:09] Diffusion reaction is taking place.

[31:12] Heat's being produced. Water flows by

[31:15] that fuel to take the heat away. And in

[31:18] this case, the heat is transferred for

[31:21] to a secondary water system where this

[31:24] water is allowed to boil. You when it

[31:27] boils, the steam goes to spin the

[31:29] turbine that spins the generator that

[31:31] makes electricity. And if you watch see

[31:33] how it lights up the city is, isn't that

[31:36] like I said, we're clever.

[31:39] The reason the water doesn't boil in

[31:41] this first loop is because it's

[31:43] pressurized. You ever uh use a pressure

[31:46] cooker? you know, you clamp that lid on

[31:48] top, that inhibits the water from

[31:51] boiling where it usually would. It gets

[31:53] hotter and hotter. Same idea here. We're

[31:56] pressurizing the water, so it is not

[31:58] allowed to boil, but then the secondary

[32:00] loop is allowed to boil. Now, you could

[32:02] replace this reactor with a coal burner

[32:06] or a

[32:08] natural gas burner. The idea is to make

[32:10] heat, to make steam, to spin the

[32:12] turbine.

[32:15] By the way, because we pressurize this

[32:19] water, the design is very creatively

[32:22] called a pressurized water reactor. Huh?

[32:25] Isn't that brilliant?

[32:28] Okay. So, the fuel goes into the reactor

[32:32] when it's finished giving the energy it

[32:35] can in about four to six years. Four to

[32:38] six years fuel spends in there. It comes

[32:41] out first. It's stored in a pool of

[32:43] water. So, this is a fuel assembly right

[32:46] here.

[32:47] It's in water because there's still heat

[32:51] coming out of that fuel for a while. So,

[32:52] the water serves to keep it cool. And

[32:56] after it cools for a while, it can be

[32:58] stored outside of water and just having

[33:02] natural convective cooling. What I mean

[33:05] by that is okay inside these

[33:10] containers there are doublewalled

[33:12] containers the fuel's inside and there's

[33:14] space

[33:17] between the two containers and if you

[33:20] look here

[33:22] this dark area that's a vent. So what

[33:25] happens is the air between the two

[33:27] canisters gets heated up. It moves you

[33:30] know hot air rises. So the air rises out

[33:33] comes out the top vent and as that

[33:35] happen cool air is sucked in just

[33:37] natural flow and it's sufficient. Uh

[33:40] most power plants have that at this

[33:42] point because the pools I mentioned were

[33:45] never meant to hold 40 or 50 or 60 years

[33:48] of fuel. The federal government was

[33:51] supposed to have taken ownership of the

[33:53] fuel in 1998.

[33:56] Hasn't happened yet. Meanwhile, the

[33:59] plants have to figure out if they're

[34:00] going to keep operating, what to do with

[34:02] the fuel.

[34:04] Here's one example. This is main Yankee

[34:08] nuclear power plant in Maine. There used

[34:11] to be a reactor on this site. There's no

[34:14] reactor anymore. All that's left is used

[34:17] fuel waiting for the federal government

[34:19] to take ownership.

[34:22] Across the country, we have about 90,000

[34:26] metric tons. And that increases every

[34:29] year as new fuel needs to go in, old

[34:32] fuel comes out. I'll give you an idea of

[34:36] how much that is because I always

[34:38] struggle with numbers of trying to

[34:39] envision, well, is that big? Is that

[34:41] small? If you took all 90,000 metric

[34:45] tons of used fuel that we've accumulated

[34:49] from day one of the nuclear industry in

[34:52] the US and you stacked it on a football

[34:55] field, it would only be 12 yards high.

[34:59] And if you compare that to any other

[35:01] type of power production,

[35:03] we're talking not football fields, maybe

[35:06] airplane hangers, maybe many airplane

[35:08] hangers.

[35:10] But again, the federal government

[35:12] obligation to collect the fuel has come

[35:14] and gone. Haven't uh they spent a lot of

[35:17] our tax dollars in the process of

[35:20] supposedly preparing to take ownership,

[35:22] but that hasn't happened either. I

[35:24] worked with a guy who was a real

[35:27] jokester and he used to say, "You know

[35:31] what really burns my butt? Flames this

[35:34] high." And I said, 'Well, what really

[35:37] burns my backside is this situation

[35:40] because our tax dollars are being used

[35:42] and nothing is happening.

[35:47] And remember, you're all practical

[35:50] enough to know that no matter how you

[35:52] produce electricity, there will be

[35:54] waste. It's just simply not possible to

[35:57] do it otherwise

[35:58] in a magic world, maybe. So I want you

[36:03] to look at the numbers not the numbers

[36:05] themselves but to compare them. So if we

[36:09] talk about producing a hundred sorry a

[36:12] thousand megawatts of electricity that

[36:15] were on the same playing field. Wind

[36:19] we're talking 36,000 tons of used

[36:22] blades.

[36:23] And that's making a very generous

[36:25] assumption that all the other components

[36:28] are recycled. They're not, but we're

[36:31] being nice. Coal, 62,000

[36:35] tons of SO2, and that's what goes to

[36:39] make acid rain. I'm sure you've heard of

[36:40] that. And 1,000 tons of fly ash. nuclear

[36:46] 20 not 20,000

[36:48] 20 tons of spent fuel 175 tons of

[36:53] depleted uranium which we'll talk about

[36:55] in a minute of 500 cubic meters of

[36:58] low-level waste solar again we're in the

[37:01] tens of thousands of tons of used panels

[37:04] and one of the things about solar that

[37:07] is a problem is they use metals that are

[37:11] uh heavy metals that are toxic to people

[37:13] and when they get rained on, those

[37:16] metals get into the rainwater, get into

[37:18] the soil, and so they're they're

[37:22] creating a toxic environment.

[37:25] Those numbers in the parenthesis,

[37:27] capacity factors, that's the percent of

[37:30] time that they're actually operating. So

[37:33] nuclear in this country is phenomenal.

[37:36] 93% of the time they are operating

[37:40] compared to wind that's 32, solar, 23.

[37:44] Coal it can operate at a higher than 57

[37:46] but typically they're load following so

[37:49] they vary.

[37:54] I mentioned used fuel what the fuel is.

[37:58] So basically I said oh okay um we have

[38:01] this neat fuel those little pellets goes

[38:04] into the reactor then it goes into a

[38:05] pool. Some of it is going into dry cask

[38:08] interim storage. But in the US, policy

[38:11] is like many countries that that used

[38:14] fuel will go into a deep geological

[38:17] repository.

[38:19] We don't have that um for our fuel at

[38:22] this point.

[38:24] And we refer to all of this as the back

[38:27] end of the fuel cycle. The front end of

[38:30] the fuel cycle is like any mineral. You

[38:32] have to mine it and process it. um and

[38:36] we have to enrich which means naturally

[38:40] U238 comprises

[38:44] over 90%

[38:46] of all actually over 99% of natural

[38:52] uranium less than 1% is 235 but we want

[38:55] the 235 right so we have this really

[38:59] clever process where we convert the

[39:02] natural form of uranium into a gas,

[39:06] uranium hexaflloride.

[39:08] Then we put it into centrifuges.

[39:11] Everybody's been on a margo round as a

[39:13] kid, right? And you spin the margo round

[39:17] and you hang on to the edge and you feel

[39:19] that force pulling you back. Now, if

[39:22] you're the skinny kid, you're going to

[39:24] feel less force pulling you back than

[39:27] the really big kid. He's going to feel a

[39:29] lot more force. Same thing in that

[39:31] centrifuge.

[39:33] The uranium 235 is the skinny kid.

[39:37] Uranium 238 is the big kid. The big

[39:40] kid's going to accumulate around the

[39:42] walls of that centrifuge and they can

[39:46] suck out the 235 from the middle, send

[39:49] it to the next centrifuge and repeat. So

[39:52] eventually we get a higher percentage of

[39:54] U235.

[39:56] That is the front end of the fuel cycle.

[39:59] The actual chemical form of these

[40:01] pellets is uranium dioxide. So we have

[40:04] to convert it a few times in terms of

[40:06] chemical form.

[40:14] I get too excited and carried away.

[40:16] Where is the Here we go. Let's try this.

[40:21] Now I don't know if you caught back here

[40:24] this term recycling.

[40:27] In the US, we just have this kind of U

[40:30] shape. There's nothing in this box in

[40:34] the US. In some countries, they have

[40:36] stuff in that box. France, for example,

[40:39] uh Russia, Japan, to some extent, they

[40:42] will take the fuel and instead of just

[40:44] calling it waste, they will recycle it

[40:47] back into the fuel cycle.

[40:52] And there are some reasons to recycle.

[40:57] Because 96% of what we call used fuel

[41:01] and waste is actually reusable.

[41:05] And when we do that chemical

[41:07] reprocessing, we reduce the volume of

[41:10] waste significantly.

[41:13] 10% in France of their electricity is

[41:16] using this recycled fuel. Why don't we?

[41:20] It's largely policy. Why we don't? And

[41:23] we can go into more detail there, but

[41:26] the reason France does recycle is

[41:29] policy. The reason we don't is largely

[41:32] policy, but also a little bit of

[41:34] economics.

[41:36] And with that, I want there to be plenty

[41:38] of time to have Q&A.

[41:42] And as I'm going back to the university

[41:45] tomorrow to grade final exams,

[41:48] um you can contact Andrew Smith,

[41:50] American Nuclear Society with follow-up

[41:52] questions. Also, my business card is

[41:56] over there on the side table, and I I

[41:58] welcome any followup if you'd like to.

[42:01] What questions have you got?

[42:07] » No, he is.

[42:14] Yeah, not a lobby as he's staff member

[42:16] of American Nuclear Society.

[42:20] » Is that

[42:25] » They just closed on about 1,800 acres

[42:28] for

[42:30] data sets?

[42:31] » Yes.

[42:33] » I didn't realize it was that recently.

[42:35] He's talking about Suspena nuclear power

[42:36] plant has an agreement with Microsoft.

[42:39] So they are planning um to power I just

[42:44] read about this um Andrew it was in the

[42:47] news brief I think this week that

[42:50] there's some agreement between

[42:53] um EJM

[42:55] and

[42:57] Tuscuana and Microsoft because Microsoft

[43:01] wanted to build a reactor and have first

[43:04] first use of the electricity and PJM

[43:06] said nuhuh so they had come up with some

[43:08] agreement I'm not what it is.

[43:12] » Yes.

[43:13] » This is all nice and

[43:20] what what's the vision? What do you what

[43:23] do we expect

[43:25] our future

[43:32] who are the right people that we need to

[43:36] engage? Make sure that we're safe and

[43:40] that we aren't being charged amount for

[43:43] our

[43:45] » All great questions. In terms of the the

[43:48] vision for Potter County, that's out of

[43:51] my jurisdiction. So, I'll rely on one of

[43:54] the commissioners to address that. But

[43:56] in the other uh questions that you had

[43:59] um

[44:01] the

[44:04] company that is planning to build the

[44:06] nuclear power plant will have works with

[44:08] the nuclear regulatory commission that's

[44:10] the regulatory authority to get the

[44:13] appropriately l appropriate licenses to

[44:16] build and operate. Along the line of

[44:19] that process there are many many

[44:21] opportunities for public engagement. So

[44:23] you can learn about what's happening um

[44:26] offer um comment and so on.

[44:31] I have had the uh pleasure of visiting a

[44:34] number of nuclear power plants in the US

[44:37] and without exception what I have found

[44:40] is that the communities in which they

[44:42] are located love their neighbors. They

[44:45] they increase and improve the

[44:47] infrastructure. They provide good paying

[44:49] jobs. the people who work there are

[44:51] generally healthier than the people who

[44:53] work at other industries. Um, so I

[44:58] totally understand your fears. Are you a

[45:00] mom?

[45:02] » Okay. A double mom. I am a mom. When I

[45:06] was pregnant with my children, I still

[45:08] went to work every day. Um, if I thought

[45:12] that my job working with nuclear

[45:14] materials was going to harm my child, I

[45:16] would not have done that. It is really

[45:18] very quite safe.

[45:22] I don't disagree that

[45:26] I think that as we as data centers have

[45:31] moved across the country uh across the

[45:35] country it's it's taken um what we pay

[45:40] for our power it has doubled and tripled

[45:44] and I don't I don't care what kind of

[45:46] kind neighbor that is.

[45:48] » Yeah. if we're paying more that there is

[45:51] no benefit. And and

[45:53] » Yeah, I can't disagree with that. And

[45:55] and that's outside of what I can tell

[45:58] you about nuclear technology. That's one

[46:00] of those things that you would go to a

[46:02] public meeting and say if we don't have

[46:06] to pay more, yes, we want this.

[46:10] » Oh, good.

[46:12] » Please go ahead. Uh the last couple of

[46:14] years in a row, I've noticed maps of

[46:16] Potter County being colored red, meaning

[46:19] that we're in a drought area compared to

[46:21] the rest of the state. Uh could you

[46:22] address the amount of water that is

[46:24] needed for these various types of

[46:25] facilities?

[46:26] » That's great.

[46:27] » Sorry, that's a great

[46:30] um

[46:32] they do take a lot of water. Like like

[46:35] any kind of power plant, the coal and

[46:37] oil plants need water as well for those

[46:40] loops to make the steam. Um, there's no

[46:43] question that water will be used.

[46:46] Nuclear does a pretty good job of

[46:49] reusing water.

[46:52] I cannot give you numbers, but it is a

[46:54] legitimate concern and it would be

[46:56] something addressed during the planning

[46:59] and licensing phases because they would

[47:01] have to say, well, here is where we

[47:03] would get the cooling water. Um, here is

[47:06] what the possible envir environmental

[47:08] impacts might be. But a very good

[47:11] question.

[47:13] Yes.

[47:14] » Yes.

[47:19] » That are being recommended

[47:22] uh for this uh possible facilities.

[47:26] » Commissioner,

[47:27] » The there are none. This is just an

[47:29] educational session that's all because

[47:31] we want to be proactive and not

[47:33] reactive. So So something like this were

[47:35] to come up

[47:40] So to answer your question, do you have

[47:42] anything?

[47:42] » Okay. Well, that's good to know.

[47:43] » Yep.

[47:44] » Thank you.

[47:48] » Well, the joke in the nuclear industry

[47:50] is that 50 years ago it was 50 years

[47:54] away and it's still 50 years away. Now,

[47:57] having said that, a little bit tongue

[47:59] and cheek, um we're getting closer. Um

[48:03] the thing with fusion, well think about

[48:04] fusion is instead of splitting an atom,

[48:07] you're fusing atoms together. This is

[48:10] what happens in the sun in stars. Now

[48:14] put your minds to okay, let's create a

[48:16] star on Earth and contain it. Like get

[48:20] back to me on that. Right? That's the

[48:22] challenge that they've been facing.

[48:24] trying to create the environment and

[48:27] contain it um with the materials and

[48:30] technology we have. But just in the last

[48:33] several years, there was a real

[48:36] significant breakthrough. Up until that

[48:38] point, they actually put more energy

[48:41] into go causing fusion than actually

[48:43] came out, but they actually got to break

[48:46] even where they put in an amount, the

[48:49] same amount came back. But that means we

[48:52] okay we're still decades away from like

[48:56] applying that for power production

[48:58] scientifically. It's exciting. Yeah.

[49:06] And I'll be here uh until the meeting's

[49:09] over. So I'm happy to talk with you

[49:11] oneonone if you like.

[49:19] » Oh, sorry. Um, what is the downside of

[49:23] these modular type units? You're talking

[49:25] about it's cleaner, you know, energy.

[49:29] Um, but bad things do happen. You know,

[49:32] what are the, you know, negatives?

[49:36] I'd say practically speaking,

[49:39] initially, a negative is we don't

[49:41] currently have the infrastructure to

[49:44] manufacture these. That has to be part

[49:46] of what we build up. We know how to

[49:49] build the big ones. Uh we just got two

[49:53] online in in Georgia over the past five

[49:56] years. So developing that infrastructure

[49:58] is I'd say one of the biggest downsides.

[50:01] When we get up to what we say is nth of

[50:04] a kind. Like we've done it for a while

[50:06] then we'll be good. In terms of safety,

[50:09] um they're really much safer. They're

[50:12] going to be expensive because they're

[50:14] new, right? because when you build

[50:17] anything for the first time, it's going

[50:18] to be expensive. Um, but eventually the

[50:20] idea is because they're going to be more

[50:23] or less mass- prodduced, if you will, or

[50:25] or in uh factory produced, the cost will

[50:30] go down with time. So, another con I

[50:32] would say is they're going to be pricey

[50:34] at first. There's and we know that.

[50:37] Yeah. from the back.

[50:46] » You said that um France and Russia

[50:50] recycles their waste.

[50:52] » Yes.

[50:53] » You you you're very knowledgeable on the

[50:56] subject of nuclear power.

[50:58] » Yes.

[50:59] » In a nutshell, can you tell us how they

[51:01] do that and why we don't do it here?

[51:04] » Okay, great question. So,

[51:11] let me think how to say it without

[51:13] getting too technical.

[51:16] So, basically, the fuel comes out. It's

[51:18] still the ceramic in those long tubes.

[51:21] They cut them open. They dissolve the

[51:24] fuel and acid. And then they chemically

[51:27] separate out uranium and plutonium.

[51:30] And they put the plutonium, mix it with

[51:33] new uranium to make what we call mixed

[51:36] oxide fuel. Instead of uranium oxide,

[51:39] it's mixed uranium plutonium oxide. Then

[51:41] they make new pellets, put it back in

[51:44] for one more loop.

[51:47] That is uh limited recycle because they

[51:50] can only do that one time. And after

[51:52] that, um, the isotopics, the the nuclei,

[51:58] uh, get to the point where they're not

[51:59] going to fision as well anymore.

[52:02] So, oh, that's 45 minutes.

[52:06] Excuse me.

[52:12] It is done in France.

[52:15] Let me back up.

[52:16] The US is the only country that has a

[52:19] sort of private nuclear industry. I say

[52:23] sort of because it is so heavily

[52:24] regulated that

[52:27] um it's practically governmentr run but

[52:30] all other countries it is the government

[52:33] that runs the nuclear industry.

[52:37] It what was that?

[52:41] Well,

[52:43] that's debatable. Um

[52:46] you and I can sit down later and arm

[52:48] wrestle. Anyway, the

[52:52] in France policy is and this was largely

[52:56] um the policy decision as a result of

[52:59] the oil crisis in the 70s.

[53:02] Um they said we do not want to be at um

[53:06] the mercy of these other countries with

[53:09] the resources. We don't have resources.

[53:12] So they said, "We're going nuclear." And

[53:14] government said, "We're going to have

[53:16] this kind of reactor and we're going to

[53:18] reprocess

[53:20] here's tax dollars to make it happen."

[53:23] And that's been that way to this day.

[53:26] Pretty much the same thing with the

[53:27] other countries, Russia, Japan. It's

[53:29] policy decision. In the US, we

[53:35] started in the early days of the

[53:37] industry to reprocess. The thing that I

[53:40] didn't mention here is like I said, I

[53:43] don't want to go so technical that you

[53:45] all fall asleep. That is not the

[53:47] objective.

[53:49] Okay, hold on.

[53:53] I had one of my freshmen this year after

[53:55] the intro to nuclear class I taught them

[53:57] came to me after class and said, "Do you

[54:00] teach other courses, too?"

[54:04] » But but I didn't put them to sleep. I

[54:06] made sure they didn't go to sleep.

[54:09] Okay. So, here's what I didn't elaborate

[54:12] on.

[54:14] If we recycle

[54:17] and we use that 96% of the material I

[54:20] said was reusable,

[54:22] we have to have a different kind of

[54:24] reactor to put that fuel back into. We

[54:26] can't use the type of reactors we have

[54:28] now. So, the idea is we take I'm call

[54:33] them thermal reactors. Bear with me. Um,

[54:36] all of our reactors are thermal

[54:37] reactors.

[54:39] We would need a different style reactor

[54:42] to make full use of all the material you

[54:45] recycle out. We don't have one. Um, and

[54:49] the technology isn't as advanced.

[54:54] So, in early days, we thought we're

[54:57] going to have to go with that advanced

[54:59] reactor design. We call it a fast

[55:00] reactor

[55:02] because we thought uranium resources are

[55:04] limited. So, we're going to have to

[55:06] recycle. We're going to have to put it

[55:08] back into a fast reactor. Well, like so

[55:10] many um minerals

[55:14] and other natural resources, the more

[55:16] you look, the more you find. So, we

[55:19] thought uranium was rare. It's so not

[55:21] rare. I mean, there's some in the dirt

[55:23] in your backyard. I kid you not. So we

[55:26] kept finding more and more and then we

[55:28] realized, oh, we don't really need to

[55:31] recycle.

[55:33] Meanwhile, the first reactors were

[55:35] actually built for the US Navy for subs

[55:39] because we're in the Cold War, right,

[55:42] after World War II. And subs were

[55:44] supposed to be stealth, but they were

[55:46] using diesel fuel.

[55:50] I mean, how stealth is that, right? And

[55:52] so they said, "We need to be stealth."

[55:54] So they designed a nuclear reactor that

[55:56] can stay underwater forever. And then

[55:59] what happened was okay, Admiral Rickover

[56:02] was the person who led that project.

[56:04] Admiral Rickover and his guys, they

[56:06] designed this cool reactor design. Let's

[56:07] take that design, just make it bigger

[56:09] for our nuclear power plants. Yeah,

[56:11] eventually we'll go with faster

[56:12] reactors. But we never did because we

[56:15] kept finding more uranium. Did that kind

[56:17] of answer your question?

[56:22] » Yeah.

[56:28] Yes.

[56:32] » Yes.

[56:34] » And is it the rich that's in the That's

[56:38] in the

[56:38] » In the middle.

[56:40] » Yes.

[56:40] » And suck that out.

[56:41] » Yeah. They suck that out and then they

[56:43] send it to the next centrifuge in the

[56:45] next

[56:46] » Get more and more.

[56:47] » Exactly.

[56:49] Exactly. And how how do you know

[56:53] what is

[56:55] » You know there are calculations you do

[56:57] you take my nuclear fuel cycle course

[56:59] and you learn how to do those.

[57:01] » Okay.

[57:04] » Yeah.

[57:07] » Go ahead Barney.

[57:12] the um power plants that I'm familiar

[57:15] with are on large bodies of water and I

[57:17] just wonder what's the difference in

[57:19] consumption for the new one versus what

[57:21] we have now.

[57:23] » Great question. Some of the designs will

[57:27] use water, some will not. Um, some of

[57:30] them are gas cooled,

[57:34] some are molten salt cooled, and some

[57:38] will use water. It really varies. But

[57:41] you're right, big power plants because

[57:43] of that cycle that I showed you use good

[57:46] bit of water. And so it's not a um,

[57:51] what's the word? coincidence that

[57:53] they're always going to be by a body of

[57:55] water with one exception in Arizona. Um,

[58:00] Palo Varity nuclear power plant is out

[58:03] in the middle of the freaking desert. I

[58:05] kid you not. I mean, it's nowhere, man.

[58:08] I've been there. And they use recycled

[58:12] water from the city of Phoenix. They

[58:14] recycle the sewage water and use it to

[58:17] cool their planet, which I think is it's

[58:20] a wonderful idea.

[58:22] Yeah, go ahead.

[58:26] » The the I'm here because I like to talk

[58:29] about nuclear and

[58:32] » So

[58:34] I'm a member of the American Nuclear

[58:36] Society and it was through the American

[58:40] Nuclear Society and County Commissioners

[58:43] that I'm here.

[58:50] I love nuclear.

[58:52] » That's the motivation.

[58:54] » The motive is to be prepared in case

[58:57] something comes in, especially with

[58:59] these data centers in here. She talks

[59:01] about these micro plants. We want to be

[59:03] prepared for what what's coming. So,

[59:05] this is what this is about.

[59:10] If you were to prioritize

[59:14] American Nuclear Society's objectives

[59:17] and put that in place for the future of

[59:21] a relationship between American Nuclear

[59:23] Society and Potter County,

[59:25] » Does that look like a reactor and energy

[59:28] generation or does that look like

[59:31] storage?

[59:33] » So, the American Nuclear Society doesn't

[59:35] build or operate anything.

[59:39] relationship with a nuclear presence in

[59:42] Potter County look like? Does that look

[59:44] like Potter County is building energy

[59:47] facility?

[1:00:05] » Sorry. Um, Andrew Smith, director of

[1:00:08] communications.

[1:00:09] Tracy. Oh, great. Nice to meet you. Uh,

[1:00:12] so we're we're not industry, we're not

[1:00:15] government, there's no project that

[1:00:17] we're aware of, anything like that. And

[1:00:20] and and

[1:00:22] to to address your question on that uh

[1:00:25] while American Nuclear Society while we

[1:00:28] do provide technical scientific uh you

[1:00:30] know expertise uh for communities for

[1:00:33] state tribal uh federal officials we

[1:00:37] don't really address necessarily like on

[1:00:38] the economic side of thing. the the main

[1:00:42] relationship which my colleague Eucha

[1:00:44] here will be addressing next in his uh

[1:00:47] uh presentation is mostly focused when

[1:00:49] it comes to communities on education and

[1:00:52] workforce development and but but I want

[1:00:56] to get back to so I I want to make sure

[1:00:58] I understand your question about you're

[1:01:00] asking about if there is a project what

[1:01:03] role American nuclear society would play

[1:01:04] when it comes to

[1:01:07] » If we were to eliminate American nuclear

[1:01:09] society from the equation.

[1:01:11] » Okay.

[1:01:11] » What does the future of a nuclear

[1:01:13] project look like in Powder County?

[1:01:16] Energy power generation or nuclear

[1:01:19] interim storage?

[1:01:22] » That would that would be up to a

[1:01:25] community uh the state um that that is

[1:01:29] something that uh community the state

[1:01:32] the market industry would would have to

[1:01:35] sort out.

[1:01:38] Sorry for misunderstanding saying a

[1:01:40] question.

[1:01:46] » Make it green.

[1:01:47] » I did push it.

[1:01:48] » Go green. There you go.

[1:01:50] » Anyway, I can't hear very well, so I

[1:01:52] could have missed a lot,

[1:01:54] » But I'm concerned about the water that

[1:01:56] you use when you release it. I assume if

[1:01:59] you're taking it out of a stream, it's

[1:02:01] going to go back in the stream. So,

[1:02:03] you're going to change the temperature

[1:02:04] of the water. You're going to kill the

[1:02:06] wildlife. that's there or to replace it

[1:02:10] with something else. I assume that's

[1:02:12] what

[1:02:12] » Okay.

[1:02:13] » Okay. So, I'm true on that, right?

[1:02:15] » Yeah. So current power

[1:02:19] plants, nuclear power plants, with one

[1:02:22] exception, like I said in Arizona,

[1:02:24] they're all by bodies of water and they

[1:02:27] um have all been permitted, licensed to

[1:02:32] operate the way they do in some cases uh

[1:02:36] locally increasing temperature of of a

[1:02:39] river or the ocean,

[1:02:41] but uh always permitted

[1:02:45] given the environmental situations which

[1:02:47] are all considered in the application

[1:02:49] for operation. I'll tell you a story

[1:02:51] that I love. I have been to St. Lucy

[1:02:55] nuclear power plant in Florida and it's

[1:02:59] right on the Atlantic coast. It takes

[1:03:03] cooling water from the ocean and it

[1:03:05] sends back in. But all power plants make

[1:03:09] an effort to not put the water directly

[1:03:12] back in because of the temperature

[1:03:14] difference. And so they dug this series

[1:03:17] of canals

[1:03:19] so that by the time the water actually

[1:03:21] goes into the ocean, it's it's

[1:03:23] temperate. But the thing is there are

[1:03:27] sea turtles. You know the really big

[1:03:29] like 300 pound turtles. They love warm

[1:03:32] water. So they find their way into the

[1:03:35] canals and they like hang out in there

[1:03:37] like a turtle day spa. And so every day

[1:03:41] one of the guys who works there who is

[1:03:43] out in a rowboat and takes a turtles

[1:03:46] funk into his rowboat and has to take

[1:03:49] him back out to the ocean. He does this

[1:03:51] every day because they've created a

[1:03:53] turtle day spa.

[1:03:56] I'm not trying to make light of your

[1:03:57] question. They all use water and that is

[1:04:00] part of the planning and how they're

[1:04:03] licensed.

[1:04:04] » I've seen that. I know what you're

[1:04:06] talking about.

[1:04:07] » You've seen it.

[1:04:07] » What I'm concerned about is like we have

[1:04:10] a trout fisheries. You're going to

[1:04:12] destroy that. I just want the people to

[1:04:15] know that.

[1:04:16] » The other question has to do with your

[1:04:19] mining, milling, and conversion. Yes.

[1:04:21] And what waste we have there. What we're

[1:04:25] destroying to get it. We're destroying

[1:04:27] something that's growing on that earth

[1:04:30] and until they get it back and replace

[1:04:33] it with something else, we've lost that.

[1:04:35] We'll never get that back.

[1:04:37] » I just want people to know that. I'm not

[1:04:40] opposed to nuclear energy. I just want

[1:04:43] people to know that there's expenses to

[1:04:45] all this.

[1:04:46] » There is. And that's why I'm saying you

[1:04:48] have to look across the entire life

[1:04:50] cycle of a plant. the mining for um the

[1:04:55] minerals for solar panels is much more

[1:04:59] destructive than the mining for uranium

[1:05:01] because of that energy density thing I

[1:05:03] mentioned. So yes, um there is mining

[1:05:07] involved for uranium, but we need to

[1:05:10] mine much less than you need to dig up

[1:05:13] coal, for example. There's no free

[1:05:16] launch, right? But you can improve

[1:05:18] practices. In the US and around the

[1:05:22] world, um they're doing a lot of what's

[1:05:25] called insitue leeching where they don't

[1:05:27] have to dig at all. They just drill like

[1:05:30] a water well drill and they inject a

[1:05:34] solution that dissolves the uranium and

[1:05:36] they suck it back out and you can't even

[1:05:39] tell on the surface there's a mine

[1:05:41] there. So, like I said, um we are a

[1:05:46] clever species. Even though we do dumb

[1:05:49] things, we're going to figure it out.

[1:05:51] We've already figured a lot of it out,

[1:05:53] but I agree with everything you said.

[1:05:55] Uh, yes. I'm a retired teacher from St.

[1:05:59] Lucy County, Florida, and I live in that

[1:06:01] area, and I've been by that power plant.

[1:06:05] The seagrasses are completely gone. The

[1:06:08] sea trout are completely gone. I would

[1:06:12] go fishing and catch 30, 40 sea trout.

[1:06:16] You're lucky to catch one or two. The

[1:06:18] manitude population has decreased.

[1:06:23] and I live and I used to fish in that

[1:06:26] area by that power plant. And just to

[1:06:30] let you know that uh there's been a real

[1:06:33] change in nature like this gentleman was

[1:06:37] concerned about the fish population and

[1:06:41] it could affect people that eat those

[1:06:44] fish. I don't eat fish down there

[1:06:46] anymore. Uh, I live very close to that

[1:06:50] plant and I wouldn't eat any out of

[1:06:53] there. I just want to let you know.

[1:06:55] » Yeah. Well, I appreciate

[1:06:56] » Your local population. I'm visiting up

[1:06:59] here. I'm fly fishing up here. I just

[1:07:02] got up here uh a few days ago and I'm

[1:07:06] glad that I attended uh this meeting

[1:07:08] today. Thank you.

[1:07:10] » Thanks for your comments. It would be

[1:07:12] interesting to learn why the population

[1:07:15] changed.

[1:07:18] Oh, thank you. Uh, on May the 6th of

[1:07:22] this year, UGI Energy Services and Prime

[1:07:25] Data Centers announced a strategic

[1:07:28] partnership to develop one of

[1:07:30] Pennsylvania's largest AI and hypers

[1:07:33] scale data centers in the northern tier,

[1:07:35] one of the three counties up north. I

[1:07:38] understand that they're planning to use

[1:07:40] natural gas at least initially that then

[1:07:42] later transition to nucle nuclear. I

[1:07:46] wondered if the commissioners could uh

[1:07:47] comment on that.

[1:07:50] » I'll definitely toss that all to the

[1:07:52] commissioners.

[1:07:54] » Uh

[1:07:55] we found out about it the same time you

[1:07:57] did. They didn't reach out to us and as

[1:07:59] far as I know, planning director Hunt

[1:08:02] has not heard anything from either of

[1:08:04] them.

[1:08:09] » Thank you. I don't want to get way out

[1:08:11] ahead of our skis here. The question

[1:08:13] was, you know, how did you guys get

[1:08:15] here? Well, we're going to ask you to

[1:08:17] come to Bradford County. You've been

[1:08:19] down in McMullen County, Texas. Um, our

[1:08:22] organization has no paid. Our director,

[1:08:24] Jeff, you know, Jeff, he does this all

[1:08:27] for the love of energy. We're all below

[1:08:29] gas, coal, you know, nuclear, wind,

[1:08:33] solar, but there is no proposed plants.

[1:08:36] We're here tonight just to get educated,

[1:08:38] you know, because there's so much talk

[1:08:40] in the world, like for example, the

[1:08:42] difference between using nuclear for

[1:08:45] gener electric power generation and

[1:08:47] making a bomb. What's the difference? I

[1:08:49] mean, there's I mean, it needs to be

[1:08:50] cleared up. There's so much talk about

[1:08:52] because we've had two uh developments

[1:08:55] with or AI and data centers to go to

[1:08:59] market now um that they've done all the

[1:09:02] putting the properties together and all

[1:09:03] that in Bradford County. But why does

[1:09:06] data centers come here is because of the

[1:09:08] natural gas because we have a large

[1:09:10] electricity um over there that we can

[1:09:13] put up and a lot of the problems with

[1:09:15] our electric rates going up. And I'm not

[1:09:17] defending the electric companies, but

[1:09:19] it's because they just put up new

[1:09:20] infrastructure for our grid and are

[1:09:22] charging us for it and people

[1:09:24] automatically think it's data centers.

[1:09:27] So, I mean, this is a terrific uh

[1:09:29] education. That's all we're here for

[1:09:31] tonight. Um, I commend Commissioner

[1:09:34] Rossman for having you guys here. We

[1:09:36] want to get you over there. I know that

[1:09:38] Jeff has traveled with you guys. We

[1:09:41] learn stuff everywhere we go. I haven't

[1:09:43] I want to get down to Judge Teal. He's a

[1:09:45] terrific guy and to go to that one. I

[1:09:48] couldn't get there. I think you did one

[1:09:49] over maybe in Alabama, maybe

[1:09:52] » Mississippi. Yeah. So, this is this is

[1:09:55] John just all educational. There's none

[1:09:57] coming to Bradford County. There's

[1:09:59] nothing proposed. And one of the

[1:10:00] questions just to I mean from the

[1:10:02] beginning of looking for a site the

[1:10:03] completion of the plant with the

[1:10:05] permitting and everything how long are

[1:10:07] you how long are you talking?

[1:10:14] » I'd say probably 20 years from just the

[1:10:16] idea to going through the entire design

[1:10:20] and licensing process construction.

[1:10:22] Yeah. It's not going to happen overnight

[1:10:24] to be sure.

[1:10:25] » Yeah. And I just appreciate it. But I

[1:10:27] didn't want us to get out ahead of our

[1:10:28] skis. And you folks leave here tonight

[1:10:30] think power plant coming. There isn't.

[1:10:32] This is education. We're going to have

[1:10:34] Nebrask County. We're going to invite

[1:10:36] commissioners from the other side of the

[1:10:37] state to come. There's so much talk with

[1:10:40] the small reactors to go with data

[1:10:42] centers to bombs to, you know, they're

[1:10:44] going to allow Iran or rich for energy

[1:10:47] or what we all need to learn. And I

[1:10:50] appreciate you guys traveling here

[1:10:51] because I sure learned too. But just

[1:10:53] don't want to get ahead of our out over

[1:10:54] our skis. That's all. and and uh

[1:10:58] yes uh we're going to move on to the

[1:11:01] next phase real quick and thank you so

[1:11:03] much for your comments on that. We've

[1:11:04] been traveling the country for the past

[1:11:06] couple years engaging with communities

[1:11:07] that are dealing with energy uh you know

[1:11:10] opportunities and challenges uh you know

[1:11:13] oh you can't hear me okay weird

[1:11:18] » Yeah so uh we we've been traveling the

[1:11:20] country for the past couple years

[1:11:22] engaging with communities uh including

[1:11:24] those of the America's Rural Energy

[1:11:26] Coalition uh and uh communities are

[1:11:29] dealing with similar challenges and

[1:11:30] opportunities across the country um so

[1:11:33] this is just strictly you know,

[1:11:35] educational uh and and and nothing more.

[1:11:37] We're not government, we're not

[1:11:38] industry, we're not tied to anything. We

[1:11:40] keep our independence from both of them,

[1:11:43] and we often disagree with the nuclear

[1:11:45] industry on things because we represent

[1:11:47] a workforce uh and teachers and so on.

[1:11:51] Uh we're we're going to take uh uh like

[1:11:54] 10-minute break, but during that time

[1:11:56] period, uh feel free uh uh to pick up

[1:11:59] some uh fact sheets that we have over

[1:12:01] here of stuff. Uh bandanas and pellet

[1:12:03] cards. Uh and also we have a video to

[1:12:06] play. It's five minute video. It's uh

[1:12:08] pretty entertaining. Uh we worked with a

[1:12:11] Simpsons uh writer co-producer uh on

[1:12:15] this. Uh and then we'll reconvene uh

[1:12:19] like uh 6 uh 25 to hear from my

[1:12:23] colleague Jenna on K12 educational and

[1:12:27] workforce professional development

[1:12:29] opportunities that ANS has uh you know

[1:12:32] to offer for schools, for your community

[1:12:34] colleges, for individuals. Thank you.

[1:22:42] All right, folks.

[1:22:44] We're going to go ahead and move into

[1:22:46] the next portion of today's event.

[1:22:51] So, grab your last bites, last bathroom

[1:22:54] breaks.

[1:23:00] All right, we're going to go ahead and

[1:23:02] get started here.

[1:23:04] So, my name is Uchenna Azbe. I'm also at

[1:23:08] the American Nuclear Society. I'm the

[1:23:10] senior manager of STEM programs. So, my

[1:23:13] whole job focuses on K12 education and

[1:23:16] partially workforce development. Uh we

[1:23:20] have a suite of K12 programs which I'll

[1:23:22] introduce and talk a little bit about.

[1:23:25] Um, and then after my presentation, we

[1:23:27] actually have a demo of nuclear energy.

[1:23:30] Uh, I've got a radioactive source over

[1:23:32] here, which is very safe. You don't have

[1:23:34] to worry. It's, this is a demo that I do

[1:23:36] with elementary and middle school kids.

[1:23:38] Um, but you'll be able to see radiation

[1:23:41] with your naked eyes. So stay tuned for

[1:23:44] that.

[1:23:46] So before I start, we just want to go

[1:23:48] over the goals of ANS's STEM programs.

[1:23:52] And actually before I even do that, and

[1:23:54] I love the questions that were coming in

[1:23:56] uh after Marylu's presentation, and I'll

[1:23:59] tell you all what I tell students when I

[1:24:01] go and talk to them. I'll present some

[1:24:03] information, but I encourage you to go

[1:24:06] and do your own research. Go look up

[1:24:09] sources about nuclear energy and nuclear

[1:24:11] science. Look at what communities that

[1:24:13] have had nuclear come into their

[1:24:15] community. What have what they've said

[1:24:16] about it. Look up the pros and the cons,

[1:24:19] the major uh reasons why people have uh

[1:24:24] hesitations around nuclear and form your

[1:24:26] own opinions because there's a lot of

[1:24:28] research out there. Make sure you're

[1:24:29] looking at the source, right? We want to

[1:24:31] look at unbiased sources. Again, ANS is

[1:24:34] an unbiased source. We're just here to

[1:24:36] present information, but I encourage you

[1:24:38] all to go and look up some of these

[1:24:39] things yourself. The goals of my

[1:24:42] programming are three-fold. clarifying

[1:24:45] common misconceptions around nuclear.

[1:24:48] Um, if I go and talk to a class of 20

[1:24:50] students, maybe two or three of them get

[1:24:52] super into nuclear and they want to go

[1:24:54] into the nuclear industry, but all 20 of

[1:24:57] those students are eventually going to

[1:24:59] be members of society making decisions

[1:25:02] about themselves and their families

[1:25:04] voting. So, I want everyone to just have

[1:25:06] a fact-based understanding of nuclear

[1:25:08] science, no matter what your

[1:25:10] relationship to it might be.

[1:25:13] Secondly, uh nuclear science is already

[1:25:16] a large part of our science education

[1:25:20] landscape. If you take physics, if you

[1:25:22] take chemistry, you're going to deal

[1:25:24] with a lot of nuclear science. So, we

[1:25:26] want to build and deploy the resources

[1:25:29] that those contexts use. Um, even inside

[1:25:33] of school, I already talked about

[1:25:34] chemistry and physics class, physics

[1:25:36] classes, but there is the Boy Scouts uh

[1:25:39] nuclear science merit badge. There's the

[1:25:40] Girl Scouts getting to know nuclear

[1:25:42] patch and there are all these different

[1:25:44] contexts in and outside of the classroom

[1:25:46] where students are learning about

[1:25:47] nuclear science. So I'll talk about what

[1:25:50] we've built and deployed but our second

[1:25:52] goal is to build and deploy those

[1:25:53] resources for those students that are

[1:25:55] going to go a bit deeper than just a

[1:25:57] short engagement with either myself or a

[1:25:59] nuclear professional. And finally, you

[1:26:02] want to inspire uh students who do get

[1:26:05] really into nuclear science to pursue

[1:26:08] that interest and if they so desire to

[1:26:11] enter the field. Um I you know we didn't

[1:26:14] talk too much about some of the numbers

[1:26:15] but there's a huge workforce gap in

[1:26:18] nuclear. Uh we have a little bit over

[1:26:20] 100,000 nuclear professionals right now

[1:26:23] and we'll need over 350,000 by 2050 to

[1:26:27] meet projected demand. So we have a lot

[1:26:30] of roles in nuclear that need to be

[1:26:31] filled. Additionally, a lot of people

[1:26:33] assume, okay, if I want to work in the

[1:26:35] nuclear industry, I need a bachelor or a

[1:26:38] master's degree or a doctorate uh in

[1:26:41] nuclear engineering. And we love our

[1:26:43] folks who come with degrees. The largest

[1:26:45] gaps in the nuclear industry are

[1:26:47] actually at roles at bachelors and

[1:26:50] below. So trades people, we need a

[1:26:53] massive influx of trades persons to come

[1:26:55] into the nuclear industry. uh reactor

[1:26:58] operators. That's one of the biggest

[1:26:59] gaps and those are individuals that just

[1:27:01] get a reactor operating license. Uh it's

[1:27:04] come one come all right now as far as

[1:27:06] roles in the nuclear industry.

[1:27:09] Before I get specifically into the

[1:27:11] nuclear science education landscape, I

[1:27:13] want just talk about science learning in

[1:27:15] general. I think it's no surprise to

[1:27:17] folks that science became a lower

[1:27:19] priority all across the country when we

[1:27:22] were in that virtual uh remote learning

[1:27:25] time period in 2020 2021. Uh now that

[1:27:28] we're out of that period and students

[1:27:30] are back in school, science has not been

[1:27:32] seen as a high recovery priority. Even

[1:27:34] before that time period, the United

[1:27:37] States the the science outcomes for

[1:27:40] students in the United States were

[1:27:41] pretty dismal when you look across the

[1:27:43] globe. So we have a lot of gaps as far

[1:27:47] as the level of our science education in

[1:27:50] the classroom.

[1:27:52] How do you counteract those trends? You

[1:27:54] have highquality science teachers in the

[1:27:56] classroom, right? If you have high

[1:27:58] quality teachers, we can start to make

[1:27:59] up that gap. Unfortunately, when you

[1:28:02] look at the when you look at the

[1:28:03] subjects where nuclear science is most

[1:28:05] commonly addressed, physics and ma

[1:28:07] physics and chemistry, uh you'll notice

[1:28:09] that we have pretty atrocious teacher

[1:28:12] shortages. So, this is not a great

[1:28:15] graph, right? Nothing's labeled. It's

[1:28:17] kind of hard to to kind of parse what's

[1:28:19] on the screen here, but if you look to

[1:28:21] the right of physics, which is that

[1:28:23] orange dot, those five gray dots are

[1:28:26] special ed. In this graph are teacher

[1:28:28] surpluses and shortages. So, the most

[1:28:31] egregious teacher shortages are in

[1:28:33] special ed, which is a tragedy in and of

[1:28:36] itself and is very alarming. If you

[1:28:38] eliminate special ed, the worst teacher

[1:28:40] shortages are in physics. And then only

[1:28:42] a few ticks above that you have

[1:28:44] chemistry. So whether it's nuclear,

[1:28:46] whether it's any subject within the

[1:28:48] physics or chemistry landscape, we have

[1:28:51] very acute teacher shortages. And I

[1:28:54] didn't give my background, but I was a

[1:28:55] science teacher for many years in the

[1:28:57] classroom. I've worked in science

[1:28:58] education my entire career. Um, and we

[1:29:02] don't have professionals doing that

[1:29:04] work. There there's there's no way

[1:29:05] there's no way to parse that. It's very

[1:29:08] unfortunate for the teachers that are in

[1:29:10] the classroom. What does quality look

[1:29:12] like? On the right here, you have high

[1:29:15] school classes taught by a teacher with

[1:29:16] a degree in the field. Now, does having

[1:29:18] a degree in the field always mean you're

[1:29:20] a high quality teacher? No. But is there

[1:29:23] a correlation between having a degree in

[1:29:25] the field and being able to teach some

[1:29:27] of the more complex topics in that

[1:29:29] field? Probably. Chemistry and physics

[1:29:32] teachers have the lowest percentages of

[1:29:34] a degree in that field. Right around 40%

[1:29:37] for both of those subjects. That's not

[1:29:39] STEM specific. We have almost 70% of

[1:29:42] math teachers have a degree in the

[1:29:44] field. Over 70% of biology teachers have

[1:29:46] a degree in the field. But when you look

[1:29:48] at physics and chemistry, those teachers

[1:29:50] do not have degrees in the field. And

[1:29:52] very often that leads to a um very often

[1:29:57] when you're dealing with more complex

[1:29:59] topics like nuclear and you don't have a

[1:30:01] degree in the field, it's a lot harder

[1:30:03] to teach that effectively to students.

[1:30:05] And finally, on the right here, we have

[1:30:08] the pipeline of individuals completing

[1:30:11] physics teacher prep programs that's

[1:30:14] been falling. Yes, this graph ends in

[1:30:16] 2019, but we can imagine that it doesn't

[1:30:18] just tick up in 2019. It's actually

[1:30:20] continued to fall. We don't have people

[1:30:22] entering the physics teacher profession.

[1:30:26] So even if you don't consider nuclear,

[1:30:28] if you just consider science in general,

[1:30:30] the level of the the quality of science

[1:30:34] education in the United States has

[1:30:36] tragically not been very high and it has

[1:30:38] been falling particularly in recent

[1:30:40] years.

[1:30:42] How does ANS try to counteract that?

[1:30:44] Here are the specific programs that that

[1:30:46] I help facilitate. U we have about five

[1:30:49] and a half. I'll get to the half one on

[1:30:51] the next screen. Um, but the first one

[1:30:53] is a curriculum called Navigating. And

[1:30:56] everything that I'm talking about is

[1:30:57] provided free of charge, by the way. We

[1:30:59] don't charge students. We don't charge

[1:31:00] educators. We don't charge anybody to

[1:31:02] consume these resources. They're all

[1:31:03] available for free on ans.org. We have a

[1:31:07] curriculum on nuclear science called

[1:31:09] Navigating Nuclear. It's standards

[1:31:10] align. And in case you you don't know

[1:31:13] what standards align means, um, there

[1:31:15] are bodies of educational standards that

[1:31:18] districts and states have to follow. and

[1:31:20] our curriculum is aligned to that so

[1:31:22] that a teacher can say, "Oh, okay. I

[1:31:24] have this standard coming up for my

[1:31:26] chemistry students or my physics

[1:31:27] students. I can very easily take a

[1:31:30] lesson from navigating nuclear and

[1:31:31] integrate that into my into my

[1:31:33] curriculum." Um, we built that with the

[1:31:36] Department of Energy, Office of Nuclear

[1:31:38] Energy, and Discovery Education. We have

[1:31:41] an educator training program where we do

[1:31:43] in-person workshops and virtual webinars

[1:31:46] for educators in order to help equip

[1:31:48] them to teach nuclear science

[1:31:50] effectively. Um those in-person

[1:31:53] workshops are often done at nuclear

[1:31:55] sites so that those teachers can tour a

[1:31:57] reactor or tour a a nuclear um research

[1:32:01] facility after our workshop. Uh Mary Lou

[1:32:04] is one of our common workshop

[1:32:06] presenters. So her and I are often

[1:32:08] teaming up for stuff like this. Um and

[1:32:11] you know training educators as we saw on

[1:32:14] those previous slides is is very

[1:32:16] essential. Even if those educators

[1:32:18] already have a good grasp of nuclear the

[1:32:20] more we can bring up the quality of our

[1:32:22] science educators the better. I don't

[1:32:24] think anybody can argue with that. Um,

[1:32:27] Pathways to Nuclear is our career

[1:32:28] exploration program for helping students

[1:32:31] understand the different roles in the

[1:32:32] nuclear industry, career profiles,

[1:32:35] mentoring, resources in order to enter

[1:32:38] the nuclear industry, etc. Nuclear

[1:32:41] ambassadors is where we train nuclear

[1:32:43] professionals to go out into classrooms

[1:32:45] and do educational outreach. Um, our

[1:32:48] nuclear professionals very often

[1:32:50] understand nuclear science, you know,

[1:32:52] very deeply. But, you know, I have

[1:32:54] nuclear professionals who have been

[1:32:56] running a reactor for 30 years and

[1:32:57] leading, you know, big teams of of

[1:33:00] nuclear professionals. You put them in

[1:33:02] front of a class of 28th graders and

[1:33:04] they're trembling in their boots, right?

[1:33:06] So, we have to train them up in in how

[1:33:07] to do that sort of work. Um, and

[1:33:10] finally, the accelerators program. You

[1:33:11] can think of that as sort of like a high

[1:33:13] school nuclear science club. Those are

[1:33:15] for students who uh have said, "I am

[1:33:18] interested in nuclear. I want to learn

[1:33:19] more. I potentially may enter the

[1:33:21] industry once I leave high school." We

[1:33:23] form local chapters of accelerators

[1:33:26] programs so that they can do some of

[1:33:28] that in-person engagement. Um we have

[1:33:30] those spread, all of our resources are

[1:33:32] spread all across the country. We have

[1:33:34] something going on in all 50 states

[1:33:36] related to uh K12 education. Um but

[1:33:39] accelerators programs are not

[1:33:41] everywhere. So we also have a virtual

[1:33:43] national chapter where any high schooler

[1:33:45] in the country can join the accelerators

[1:33:47] program and get monthly enrichment

[1:33:49] around nuclear science.

[1:33:52] And then that half program I was talking

[1:33:53] about is mentor match where we match

[1:33:56] individuals with mentors who are ANS

[1:33:59] members in order to help them navigate

[1:34:02] learning about the nuclear industry or

[1:34:04] entering the nuclear industry. Um, so

[1:34:06] what I'll do from here is I'm going to

[1:34:07] show a couple more deep dives into what

[1:34:09] those resources look like. We'll do

[1:34:11] questions and then I'll uh take everyone

[1:34:14] over to our demo and I'll talk about

[1:34:15] what you're going to be seeing over

[1:34:16] there.

[1:34:18] So, educator training again, in-person

[1:34:20] workshops and virtual webinars. And one

[1:34:22] of the most underrated resources that I

[1:34:25] think we provide is our library of uh

[1:34:29] educator training webinars. So every

[1:34:31] month we have a nuclear professional

[1:34:33] come on and do a talk on some topic

[1:34:35] within nuclear radiation basics, nuclear

[1:34:38] waste, um, uh, SMRs, right, which you

[1:34:41] all learned about a bit earlier, etc.

[1:34:44] And we have all of those recordings

[1:34:45] available on our website. So if you have

[1:34:47] questions about a particular aspect of

[1:34:49] the nuclear industry, you can go online.

[1:34:51] You can most likely find a a talk from a

[1:34:54] nuclear professional, usually a

[1:34:56] university professor of nuclear science

[1:34:59] going into that topic,

[1:35:02] pathways to nuclear. Again, that's our

[1:35:04] career exploration. Um Mary Louu already

[1:35:07] talked about some of the roles in

[1:35:08] nuclear. Uh you know, every time I'm

[1:35:11] talking to students, they instantly ask,

[1:35:12] "How long do I have to go to school and

[1:35:14] what sort of pay will I get?" And again,

[1:35:17] nuclear has one of the highest uh

[1:35:19] salaries for the role and when compared

[1:35:22] to to similar when compared to similar

[1:35:25] roles in adjacent industries. So it's

[1:35:27] very high paying. We already talked

[1:35:29] about the gap in nuclear. We need a lot

[1:35:30] of nuclear professionals and we're

[1:35:32] seeing that rising interest. Um my role

[1:35:35] is working with elementary, middle, and

[1:35:37] high school students. I've been at ANS

[1:35:39] for about three years and I've seen a

[1:35:42] tsunami of students coming to us saying,

[1:35:45] "Hey, I was going to go into computer

[1:35:47] science and I was going to go into space

[1:35:49] related stuff, but I learned about

[1:35:51] nuclear and I learned about you know

[1:35:53] nuclear energy and it seems like the way

[1:35:56] it uh you know is providing carbon-f

[1:35:58] free energy is kind of saving the world

[1:35:59] and the science is interesting and I

[1:36:01] want to learn more about this. I want to

[1:36:02] go into the industry." So we have our

[1:36:04] pathways to nuclear program, career

[1:36:06] profiles, webinars, etc. to teach

[1:36:09] students about nuclear uh and about the

[1:36:11] careers that are in the nuclear

[1:36:12] industry. Um some of those profiles are

[1:36:15] video-based. Some of those you see here.

[1:36:17] Um and then there's radiochemist on here

[1:36:19] and I want to I want to just mention

[1:36:21] we've talked a lot about nuclear energy,

[1:36:23] but there's so many applications of

[1:36:24] nuclear outside of energy generation.

[1:36:27] There are so many biomedical

[1:36:28] applications of nuclear uh X-ray, MRI,

[1:36:31] all that is nuclear science to some

[1:36:33] extent. Uh so many cancer treatments are

[1:36:35] based in nuclear science. So many

[1:36:38] industry applica uh so many industry uh

[1:36:42] um approaches to industry are based in

[1:36:44] nuclear. It's not only energy generation

[1:36:46] and energy production. Um so we try to

[1:36:49] showcase that wide breath of the nuclear

[1:36:52] industry in our career profiles. Um, and

[1:36:55] then on here you'll see our career

[1:36:56] brochure. This is available virtually.

[1:36:58] We also have physical versions that

[1:37:00] we'll send out. And you can see some of

[1:37:02] the different buckets where those roles

[1:37:04] exist. Um, again top left we have energy

[1:37:07] generation. We also have health care, we

[1:37:10] have aerospace, we have national

[1:37:11] security, you have industrial

[1:37:13] applications. There are so many

[1:37:15] different ways that individuals can

[1:37:16] engage with the nuclear industry. Um,

[1:37:18] and again on that profile, how long you

[1:37:20] have to go to school and how much you're

[1:37:22] going to get paid because as a teacher,

[1:37:24] that's what kids want to know. So, we

[1:37:26] try to put that front and center. Um,

[1:37:28] and then on the back side of that

[1:37:29] brochure, we have a bit deeper dives

[1:37:32] into into what those different sectors

[1:37:34] actually do within the nuclear industry.

[1:37:37] Nuclear ambassadors, those are nuclear

[1:37:39] professionals that will come and do

[1:37:41] events like this, science fairs, town

[1:37:44] halls, etc., trying to teach people

[1:37:46] about nuclear science. Um they lead

[1:37:48] hands-on experiments. They address

[1:37:50] assump negative assumptions about

[1:37:52] nuclear. Um and they help inspire K12

[1:37:54] students to pursue careers. One of the

[1:37:57] more popular resources is the ANS cloud

[1:38:00] chamber. Not going to play this video

[1:38:02] because I'm going to talk about that

[1:38:03] afterwards. And then we're going to

[1:38:04] observe an a we're going to observe a a

[1:38:07] nuclear cloud chamber which I have

[1:38:09] cooking over there on the table. So

[1:38:11] we're a few minutes away from that.

[1:38:14] Um and then everything that we give also

[1:38:16] we try to not only I mean the the cloud

[1:38:18] chamber is just fun but we're always

[1:38:20] trying to educate right so uh along with

[1:38:23] the actual cloud chamber which we deploy

[1:38:25] to any educator in the country free of

[1:38:27] charge thank go you know through through

[1:38:29] grant supported funds we're able to

[1:38:31] distribute those to any teacher who

[1:38:33] requests one but we're also going to put

[1:38:35] a lesson there's a powerpoint around

[1:38:37] radiation and nuclear science that goes

[1:38:39] along with that there's a poster

[1:38:41] explaining what you will actually

[1:38:43] observe in a cloud chamber. Alpha decay,

[1:38:45] beta decay, gamma decay, right? The

[1:38:47] different sorts of radioactive decays

[1:38:48] that might show up there. So, we're

[1:38:50] always trying to educate individuals

[1:38:52] along with some of the more fun things

[1:38:54] that we're doing with uh with students

[1:38:56] and teachers. And then the accelerators

[1:38:58] program, I already talked about that. We

[1:38:59] have those local uh basically nuclear

[1:39:02] science clubs at different high schools.

[1:39:04] Um and we launch those with a series of

[1:39:07] sessions that we plan and then we allow

[1:39:09] the students and the educators to lead

[1:39:11] those themselves. They come to us

[1:39:12] saying, "Hey, I want to visit a nuclear

[1:39:14] power plant," or, "Hey, I would like a

[1:39:15] nuclear professional to speak to my

[1:39:16] class." But we're allowing them to steer

[1:39:19] their own direction and exploration

[1:39:21] around nuclear science with our support.

[1:39:23] Um, we're not out here to change hearts

[1:39:24] and minds. We're not out here to

[1:39:25] convince people to, oh, you should get a

[1:39:27] nuclear power plant or you should go

[1:39:28] into the industry. We're just presenting

[1:39:30] the information and when people want

[1:39:32] more information from a fact-based

[1:39:33] perspective, we try to show up and give

[1:39:35] that. Um and then of course we have our

[1:39:37] national chapter where any high schooler

[1:39:39] in the country can just sign up and

[1:39:40] start getting that monthly enrichment.

[1:39:43] Um and then finally our our curriculum

[1:39:46] which is really kind of the bedrock of

[1:39:48] upon which all of our other programs are

[1:39:51] built. Um very deployed. We've had about

[1:39:54] three million students who've gone

[1:39:56] through that curriculum to date. Uh

[1:39:58] again it's provided free of charge to

[1:40:00] any classroom in the country that wants

[1:40:02] it. Um, and we also ensure that it's

[1:40:04] aligned to the state science standards.

[1:40:07] We're not trying to teach things that

[1:40:09] are already out that are outside of the

[1:40:11] purview of of what that educator wants

[1:40:13] to teach. So when a module comes up that

[1:40:17] requires physics or chemistry uh

[1:40:20] enrichment around nuclear science, we

[1:40:23] try to provide those we try to provide

[1:40:25] those modules and those come from our

[1:40:27] navigating nuclear curriculum. What does

[1:40:29] navigating nuclear actually look like?

[1:40:31] uh we have three parts to it. Um and

[1:40:33] each part is split up by grade band. So

[1:40:35] we have an elementary school grade band,

[1:40:37] a middle school grade band, and then a

[1:40:38] high school grade band. And the three

[1:40:40] actual resources are lesson bundles,

[1:40:43] which are kind of the more um standards

[1:40:46] aligned lesson around a specific nuclear

[1:40:49] topic, whether that be protons,

[1:40:51] neutrons, electrons, whether it's

[1:40:53] exploring energy, um etc. And I'm just

[1:40:57] going through some of the different

[1:40:58] lesson bundles for elementary, middle,

[1:41:00] and high. And here you'll see that we're

[1:41:02] only talking about again energy

[1:41:03] generation but we're talking about

[1:41:05] biomed applications of nuclear right

[1:41:08] there's so many cancer treatments that

[1:41:09] are based in nuclear science we're

[1:41:11] talking about the industrial

[1:41:12] applications in nuclear science trying

[1:41:14] to give a comprehensive overview of of

[1:41:18] the uh of the industry.

[1:41:20] The second thing that we have are

[1:41:22] project starters and those are kind of

[1:41:23] more experiential projectbased

[1:41:26] explorations that students engage in

[1:41:28] after they've learned from that lesson

[1:41:30] bundle. Um, deep space. Uh, anyone

[1:41:34] familiar with Voyager 1 and Voyager 2,

[1:41:36] those probes that were launched? Okay.

[1:41:39] How do you fuel a probe to go 17 billion

[1:41:42] miles from Earth into deep space and fly

[1:41:45] for 40 or 50 years as Voyager 1 and

[1:41:48] Voyager 2 have have been doing? You

[1:41:50] can't do it with solar because once you

[1:41:52] get far away far away enough from the

[1:41:54] sun there is no solar energy at sca at

[1:41:57] at levels enough to power these

[1:41:59] machines. Um can't do it with gas

[1:42:01] because that's going to run out after a

[1:42:02] couple years. Uh you do it with nuclear.

[1:42:05] All of our probes are driven by nuclear

[1:42:07] energy. Additionally our rovers, anyone

[1:42:09] heard about the rovers that landed on

[1:42:11] Mars? Yeah. They incorporate solar

[1:42:14] energy to some extent but they're also

[1:42:16] nuclear driven. Um, nuclear has allowed

[1:42:20] us to explore the frontiers of space as

[1:42:23] well as the frontiers of the ocean.

[1:42:24] Marylu talked about those submarines.

[1:42:26] That submarine with a nuclear reactor

[1:42:28] can stay underwater for nine months at a

[1:42:30] time without breaching. Uh, you put a

[1:42:33] diesel generator on that and I mean all

[1:42:35] your sailors are coughing and hacking up

[1:42:37] after, you know, a couple days, right?

[1:42:40] Uh, so deep sea exploration, aerospace

[1:42:42] exploration, the farthest things we've

[1:42:45] ever created that are out on the fringes

[1:42:48] of the solar system, those Voyager

[1:42:50] probes are driven by nuclear generators.

[1:42:53] Um, so we talk about things beyond just

[1:42:56] power generation, but those project

[1:42:58] starters are ways that students can kind

[1:42:59] of dig deeper and take what they learned

[1:43:01] in those lesson bundles and apply it to

[1:43:03] real world applications. And we really

[1:43:05] want to emphasize the real world piece

[1:43:08] um because we want what we're teaching

[1:43:10] them to be applicable when they actually

[1:43:12] enter society after being students

[1:43:15] whether it's in the nuclear sector or

[1:43:16] not.

[1:43:18] Um more project starters

[1:43:20] radioarmaceuticals

[1:43:21] right there's a whole industry of radio

[1:43:24] pharmaceuticals that are driven by

[1:43:25] nuclear science. Um we talked about

[1:43:27] fusion earlier. I'm hoping it's not

[1:43:30] actually 50 years away because Fusion is

[1:43:31] very exciting, but uh you know, we don't

[1:43:34] have it yet. We're getting there. Um and

[1:43:36] then the final resource that we have, we

[1:43:38] have the lesson bundles, we have the

[1:43:39] project starters, and we also have

[1:43:40] virtual field trips. And that's a really

[1:43:43] good introduction for the industry for

[1:43:46] anyone, whether you're an elementary,

[1:43:47] middle, or high school student, or

[1:43:49] whether you're an adult. Um our

[1:43:50] elementary school one is an exploration

[1:43:52] of nuclear and space. Our middle school

[1:43:54] one is a nuclear power plant, Palo Verde

[1:43:57] Generating Station. And our high school

[1:43:59] one is an exploration of a nuclear

[1:44:00] research facility called Idaho National

[1:44:02] Lab. So these are about 15 20 minute

[1:44:05] long videos that just are deep dives

[1:44:07] into these sort of different aspects of

[1:44:09] the nuclear industry.

[1:44:12] Um so that's on the K12 side. Uh what

[1:44:15] does professional development within the

[1:44:17] nuclear industry look like? Um this is

[1:44:20] not my primary wheelhouse. My colleague

[1:44:22] Dan Goldberg really deals with this, but

[1:44:24] he's not here. So, I'm going to present

[1:44:25] a little bit a little bit of this on his

[1:44:27] behalf. Uh we have a whole suite of

[1:44:30] certificates and courses for training uh

[1:44:34] professionals, people who are not

[1:44:35] students in nuclear science. Some of

[1:44:38] those are for nuclear professionals, but

[1:44:40] I really want to highlight nuclear 101,

[1:44:42] which is really for individuals who

[1:44:44] don't have a background in nuclear and

[1:44:47] who may be interested in entering the

[1:44:49] industry. So you have um people in

[1:44:52] adjacent fields who are interested in in

[1:44:54] getting into nuclear trades people who

[1:44:56] might have been a trades person in

[1:44:57] within electrical or mechanical who who

[1:45:00] now want to engage with the nuclear

[1:45:02] industry most of the time because the

[1:45:04] salaries there are much much higher

[1:45:06] right um so nuclear 101 is a really good

[1:45:08] way to give those individuals uh the

[1:45:10] first kind of foundation in nuclear but

[1:45:14] we also have stuff for individuals who

[1:45:15] are currently in the nuclear industry.

[1:45:17] We have a nuclear licensing and

[1:45:19] regulation course um because licensing

[1:45:21] and regulation is a huge part of nuclear

[1:45:23] uh Marylu talked about the nuclear

[1:45:25] regulatory commission and talked about

[1:45:27] waste right and we're the only industry

[1:45:29] that does this every single gram of

[1:45:32] nuclear waste produced every single gram

[1:45:35] is tracked labeled managed by the

[1:45:38] Nuclear Regulatory Commission. They're

[1:45:40] able to tell where each and every single

[1:45:41] gram of it is. So the licensing and

[1:45:43] regulation around nuclear is extremely

[1:45:45] robust, more robust than any other

[1:45:47] industry and rightly so, right? Uh but

[1:45:51] um the licensing regulatory framework is

[1:45:55] rather complex. So we have a whole

[1:45:57] entire course around that. We also

[1:45:59] talked about the waste, right? Nuclear

[1:46:01] waste is a huge topic sometimes of

[1:46:03] concern from a lot of people and we

[1:46:05] talked a little bit about it today. How

[1:46:06] little waste there is, how manageable it

[1:46:08] is. Um, and again that's something that

[1:46:11] I always encourage people to dig into

[1:46:13] themselves because there are a lot of

[1:46:14] misconceptions around nuclear waste. But

[1:46:16] we also have a course on radioactive

[1:46:18] waste management.

[1:46:20] Um, here are some of the topics that

[1:46:22] nuclear 101 uh digs into history and

[1:46:25] legacy of nuclear, nuclear fundamentals,

[1:46:27] introduction to the nuclear fuel cycle,

[1:46:29] etc. Licensing and regulation. There's

[1:46:32] not only NRC but there's the Department

[1:46:34] of Energy and Environmental Protection

[1:46:36] Agency which are key players in the new

[1:46:38] in the regulatory framework. Um NRC

[1:46:41] licenses safety analysis supports uh a

[1:46:44] whole host of sorry a whole host of

[1:46:46] different things that are relevant to

[1:46:48] the licensing and regulation process

[1:46:49] around nuclear. Um and then that waste

[1:46:52] management it's it's anytime I talk to I

[1:46:55] won't say anytime but very often you

[1:46:56] talk to folks waste is always a question

[1:46:59] right? What about the waste? What about

[1:47:00] the waste? What about the waste? Um, and

[1:47:02] it's one of the most interesting sort of

[1:47:04] aspects of the nuclear uh landscape. The

[1:47:08] way that we approach waste, the how much

[1:47:10] waste there is, how dangerous or not

[1:47:13] dangerous that waste is, and what we do

[1:47:15] with it. Um, it's very very fascinating,

[1:47:18] not only the way that America does it,

[1:47:19] but the way that other countries have

[1:47:20] managed it as well. So, we have a whole

[1:47:22] course on radioactive waste management

[1:47:25] um as well. And then finally, this is

[1:47:28] really for nuclear professionals, but

[1:47:30] I'll, you know, just, you know, give a

[1:47:31] quick overview anyway. The certified

[1:47:33] nuclear professional, uh, that's a

[1:47:35] certification for individuals in the

[1:47:37] industry that showcases their command of

[1:47:42] of nuclear science. Um, so you can see

[1:47:44] some of the eligibility requirements

[1:47:46] there at the top. Um, and then at the

[1:47:48] bottom there's an exam, right? There's a

[1:47:50] course and there's an exam to become a

[1:47:52] certified nuclear professional. And at

[1:47:54] the bottom there you can see kind of

[1:47:55] what the breakdowns of that exam or what

[1:47:58] what the breakdowns of the different

[1:48:00] topics are within that exam.

[1:48:03] Um and then here you can see some of the

[1:48:06] upcoming courses within uh that ANS is

[1:48:09] going to be providing that are coming

[1:48:11] down the pipeline. Right? Business of

[1:48:13] nuclear economics um nuclear safety

[1:48:15] culture risk informed performance-based

[1:48:17] standards. Uh the list goes on. We just

[1:48:20] started providing these courses um not

[1:48:22] too long ago and they've been extremely

[1:48:24] popular. Nuclear 101 has been sold out

[1:48:26] every single time that we've offered it.

[1:48:28] These things are not free, right? The

[1:48:29] K12 stuff is free. These things are not

[1:48:31] free. I'll make that that caveat. Um but

[1:48:34] it's been sold out every time that we've

[1:48:35] offered it. And we've been seeing, you

[1:48:37] know, I've been seeing rising interest

[1:48:38] from the K12 perspective and ANS more

[1:48:40] broadly has been seeing a lot of rising

[1:48:42] interest from professional perspective.

[1:48:44] Um, so there is a lot more engagement

[1:48:46] that's been happening on the nuclear

[1:48:48] front from people who who previously

[1:48:50] were not familiar with the industry.

[1:48:54] Okay, that's the end of my presentation.

[1:48:55] I know I went through kind of quickly,

[1:48:57] but I wanted to make sure I left some

[1:48:58] time for questions as well as some time

[1:49:00] to observe the cloud chamber. So I I'll

[1:49:02] talk about what the cloud chamber is in

[1:49:04] a second, but before I move on and do

[1:49:06] that, let me just see if there are any

[1:49:07] questions in the audience. Yes, sir.

[1:49:43] Can Can you that second question maybe

[1:49:44] we could get him a mic? I didn't catch

[1:49:46] the tail end of that second question you

[1:49:48] were saying about things changing. Could

[1:49:50] you could you repeat that one or Yeah,

[1:49:51] Andrew's gonna get you a mic here.

[1:49:53] » We were taught that that's we were

[1:49:55] taught that that nuclear aging is um

[1:49:59] infallible and From what I've seen in

[1:50:03] recent years, it's not infallible. So,

[1:50:06] can you address the science of the aging

[1:50:09] through n of the decay and you got my

[1:50:12] first part of that?

[1:50:13] » Okay. Yeah, I think you're talking about

[1:50:14] radiocarbon dating there potentially.

[1:50:16] Yeah, I'm going to let Marylu touch on

[1:50:18] that one. Um, and then I we'll get to

[1:50:20] your first question. Go ahead, Maryl.

[1:50:21] Right behind you.

[1:50:23] » Okay.

[1:50:23] » Thank you. But I think reaching out to

[1:50:25] the a science programs and FFA is an

[1:50:28] area that that fits into

[1:50:31] » Mary, you want to take that too?

[1:50:33] » There are Oh yeah, there are so many

[1:50:35] applications in agriculture that it's

[1:50:37] brilliant. I never even thought of that.

[1:50:39] Thank you for that. So dating um with

[1:50:42] radioisotopes.

[1:50:44] It it like any other technology does

[1:50:47] evolve over time. The detectors that you

[1:50:50] use to detect the radiation being

[1:50:52] released improve the statistics you use

[1:50:55] to analyze data improve. And you know

[1:50:58] you can age things across a variety of

[1:51:04] orders of magnitude. A carbon dating is

[1:51:07] specific to anything that was organic

[1:51:11] because we're carbon based, right? And

[1:51:14] the halflife of carbon 14 something on

[1:51:17] the order of like500 years. Don't quote

[1:51:20] me on that, but close enough. Um, so you

[1:51:25] have to consider that something younger

[1:51:29] than that period of time, you won't get

[1:51:31] very good data, but something four times

[1:51:34] the age of that period of time, you'll

[1:51:37] be better. But things that are even

[1:51:38] older like sediments in deep ocean

[1:51:42] floors, you need a whole different

[1:51:44] isotope to use. So I don't know if that

[1:51:47] answered his question, but

[1:51:51] » It's fascinating stuff.

[1:51:55] » Any other questions?

[1:51:59] » I want to comment. Yes,

[1:52:01] » I had so much air time. Apologize.

[1:52:03] » No, no, no. But I was in a previous life

[1:52:07] a high school science teacher and then I

[1:52:10] went back to grad school and became a

[1:52:12] nuclear engineer.

[1:52:16] I feel

[1:52:19] really strongly about empowering K to2

[1:52:22] teachers and ANS has done a lot of

[1:52:25] homework. I've been part of that

[1:52:27] homework and creating these materials

[1:52:30] for teachers. So, if you know anybody

[1:52:32] who's a teacher um or you have kids who

[1:52:36] are in school, I strongly encourage you

[1:52:39] to share this information with them. I

[1:52:42] get it. I mean, if I were a biology

[1:52:44] teacher, um nuclear science would

[1:52:47] terrify me. I just wouldn't know enough.

[1:52:50] That's okay. Um we've created really uh

[1:52:54] tangible materials with, you know,

[1:52:57] objectives and lesson plans. We share

[1:53:00] the materials. We try to make it as easy

[1:53:02] as possible.

[1:53:04] » Yeah. So, if you do have those educators

[1:53:07] or even if you yourself want to, you

[1:53:09] know, review some of those resources,

[1:53:11] ans.orgnuclear,

[1:53:13] that's where you can find all of those

[1:53:15] programs that I mentioned. Again, all of

[1:53:18] it's available online for free. Go and

[1:53:20] you can you can look it up. And then I

[1:53:22] also encourage you all again, like I

[1:53:23] mentioned at the beginning of of my

[1:53:25] presentation, to go out and do your own

[1:53:27] research. I before I came to ANS even as

[1:53:29] a science teacher I knew so little about

[1:53:32] nuclear and I was kind of if you came up

[1:53:34] to me and asked nuclear energy I'd be

[1:53:35] like I'm not too sure maybe sort of and

[1:53:38] it took me a long time of researching to

[1:53:40] realize that wait this technology is not

[1:53:44] only super cool and a lot of fun but it

[1:53:48] gives us energy independence and

[1:53:50] reliable energy it is not releasing

[1:53:52] carbon into the atmosphere so it is in

[1:53:56] some ways

[1:53:57] the future and it is in some ways saving

[1:53:59] the planet. I mean if you look at the

[1:54:01] effects of fossil fuels and greenhouse

[1:54:04] gases on the planet and then you look at

[1:54:05] what nuclear is doing in that landscape,

[1:54:08] it is very significant. Um but I did

[1:54:10] that just looking up things myself and

[1:54:12] trying to find unbiased sources. So I

[1:54:14] encourage you all to do the same. Um and

[1:54:16] then if anyone wants to reach out to me

[1:54:18] specifically to receive resources, a lot

[1:54:21] of these resources I mentioned are

[1:54:22] virtual but we have so many physical

[1:54:24] resources. We have the cloud chamber. We

[1:54:27] have career brochures. We have uh a host

[1:54:30] of different physical things as well. Um

[1:54:32] shoot me an email or even if you just

[1:54:34] have a question or you just want me to

[1:54:35] come visit your classroom or anything of

[1:54:37] that nature or you want a nuclear

[1:54:38] professional to come out and visit your

[1:54:40] classroom or visit your community, email

[1:54:42] me at ueeibbeans.org

[1:54:44] and I'll be happy to to engage in that

[1:54:46] discussion. Um okay, any questions? If

[1:54:49] not, we're going to do a quick preamble

[1:54:51] for the cloud chamber and then we're

[1:54:52] going to go watch some cloud chamber.

[1:54:54] Okay, someone's excited for some cloud

[1:54:55] chamber stuff. Okay. Um, couple minutes

[1:54:57] real quick to contextualize us all and

[1:54:59] what we're about to see. Um, a cloud

[1:55:02] chamber in the full name is the

[1:55:03] visualizing radiation cloud chamber

[1:55:05] because it allows you to see radiation

[1:55:07] with your naked eye. How does it do

[1:55:09] that? Um, I'm a former teacher, so I'm

[1:55:11] going to start asking the audience some

[1:55:13] questions. Uh, if no one answers, I will

[1:55:15] point to people. So, put your hand up.

[1:55:17] All right. Um, when you see a plane

[1:55:19] flying through the sky very very high

[1:55:21] up, what's trailing behind that plane?

[1:55:24] Anybody?

[1:55:26] A contrail. Okay, very good. Um, if you

[1:55:28] have a cold lake and the sun hits it

[1:55:31] first thing in the morning, what do you

[1:55:32] see rising up off of that lake?

[1:55:35] Steam. Very good. Final person. Go get

[1:55:37] somebody new. Uh, if you have a warm car

[1:55:40] and it's winter time, what do you have

[1:55:42] on the windows of that car?

[1:55:46] Condensation. Very good. All of you get

[1:55:48] A's for today's class. Very good. Um,

[1:55:50] what is the similarity in all three of

[1:55:52] those contexts? Cold lake, warm sun,

[1:55:55] cold car or warm car, cold air on the

[1:55:58] outside. The similarity is

[1:56:01] somebody loud.

[1:56:04] Or you have a warm airplane jet in the

[1:56:07] cold upper reaches of the atmosphere.

[1:56:09] What's the similarity in all three of

[1:56:11] those contexts?

[1:56:13] You have a delta of temperature. Delta

[1:56:16] fancy term for a temperature difference,

[1:56:18] right? You have evaporation when a hot

[1:56:20] sun hits the water. You have

[1:56:22] condensation on the window when it's

[1:56:24] super warm inside the car and it's cold

[1:56:26] on the outside. When you have a

[1:56:28] temperature difference, water tends to

[1:56:30] change state, evaporate, condense,

[1:56:33] something of that nature. Okay, we're

[1:56:35] harnessing that same process in a cloud

[1:56:38] chamber. So, you'll notice if you look

[1:56:40] over here, um, and I'll just mosy on

[1:56:43] over, um, I have a hunk of dry ice

[1:56:47] on a styrofoam platter. And I'll pull

[1:56:50] this out so folks can kind of come on

[1:56:51] both sides and look. Um, that dry ice is

[1:56:55] what we are using to create a

[1:56:57] temperature difference

[1:57:00] inside this chamber. Sitting on top of

[1:57:02] the dry ice, I have a radioactive

[1:57:04] source. Okay, you don't have to worry

[1:57:06] about it because again I do this with

[1:57:08] third graders and fourth graders and it

[1:57:10] is actually a thorium mantle that boy

[1:57:13] scouts used to use to light lanterns

[1:57:15] when camping. So radiation is not

[1:57:17] inherently dangerous. Your bones are

[1:57:20] rather radioactive. Bananas are

[1:57:22] radioactive. Um there's radiation

[1:57:24] zipping all through this room and

[1:57:26] sunlight is a form of radiation, right?

[1:57:28] Uh so the radioactive source is on the

[1:57:30] inside. I have rubbing alcohol that I've

[1:57:34] sprayed on the inside of this cloud

[1:57:35] chamber. That rubbing alcohol is the

[1:57:38] cloud. When that rubbing alcohol

[1:57:40] evaporates, we get a vapor on the inside

[1:57:43] of that chamber. We have cold dry ice on

[1:57:45] the bottom and we have room temperature

[1:57:48] part of the chamber up at the top.

[1:57:50] That's our temperature difference. Now,

[1:57:53] what's happening on the inside? That

[1:57:55] radioactive source is releasing

[1:57:56] radiation at all times. Okay? But

[1:57:58] usually it's invisible because

[1:58:00] radioactive particles are extremely

[1:58:02] tiny. When you create this temperature

[1:58:05] difference and you have this cloud on

[1:58:06] the inside and that radioactive particle

[1:58:08] zips through the cloud, it condenses the

[1:58:12] alcohol vapor behind it and you see a

[1:58:14] trail kind of like um if you imagine,

[1:58:18] you know, if anyone's ever seen a video

[1:58:19] of a bullet being shot underwater, what

[1:58:21] do you have behind that bullet? You have

[1:58:23] a very you have an expanding uh cone of

[1:58:26] air. The same thing is happening in this

[1:58:28] chamber. And that's about it. It's super

[1:58:31] simple. Um, I have gloves and everyone

[1:58:34] sees me put on these gloves and they're

[1:58:36] like, "Oh yeah, radiation is dangerous."

[1:58:38] He put on the gloves to deal with the

[1:58:39] radiation. Uh, no. I can touch this

[1:58:41] radioactive source with my bare hands. I

[1:58:43] would not worry about it. Um, I wouldn't

[1:58:45] want to swallow that radioactive source,

[1:58:47] but beyond that, it's totally fine. The

[1:58:49] gloves are for the dry ice. A lot more

[1:58:51] dangerous than the radiation. Um, so I

[1:58:53] set this up a while ago. So, I want to

[1:58:56] make sure it's still showing trails.

[1:58:57] Yes, it is. Um, come on up and you can

[1:59:00] come and see some radiation.

[1:59:04] All right, line up one at a time. So,

[1:59:05] I'm going to get out so we can kind of

[1:59:07] come on both sides here. Here, I'll

[1:59:09] bring it I'll bring it to the end. Um,

[1:59:12] so the way you're going to want to

[1:59:13] observe it is you're going to want to

[1:59:14] look from the top of this chamber down.

[1:59:17] And on the black, that white thing there

[1:59:19] is the radioactive source. And on the

[1:59:21] black bottom of this chamber, you're

[1:59:23] going to see wisps of smoke. And each

[1:59:25] one of those wisps is a radioactive

[1:59:27] particle being shot off. So take a look.

[1:59:29] And do you see all that down there?

[1:59:34] So that is radiation. Now, one cool

[1:59:36] thing about this is you'll see radiation

[1:59:38] coming off that radioactive source. But

[1:59:40] every now and then you'll see a trail.

[1:59:43] You see it?

[1:59:44] » Yep.

[1:59:45] » See that down there? All those wispy

[1:59:48] things shooting off.

[1:59:49] » Yeah.

[1:59:50] » Now, every now and then we'll see one

[1:59:52] come from a random direction. Why?

[1:59:54] Because radiation is shooting through

[1:59:56] the atmosphere at all times.

[1:59:58] Commissioner, you want to look right

[1:59:59] through the top actually to the bottom.

[2:00:02] You see that? See all that wispy stuff

[2:00:03] being shot around in the black bottom

[2:00:05] there?

[2:00:05] » Oh, yeah.

[2:00:06] » That is radiation. Now, that's always

[2:00:09] happening off of that radioactive

[2:00:11] source. It's only visible because we put

[2:00:13] it here in this chamber.

[2:00:18] » It wouldn't be the first time I've had

[2:00:20] that request. So,

[2:00:22] » Waves. Yeah. Um, illustrate wind.

[2:00:25] » Yep. Exactly. You seeing them?

[2:00:27] » Yeah, that is cool.

[2:00:29] » How about you? You seeing them? They

[2:00:30] give me hard here. I'll scoot over a

[2:00:31] little bit because you really want to

[2:00:32] look at the from the very top straight

[2:00:34] down.

[2:00:36] » Okay.

[2:00:37] » Yeah, that's radiation.

[2:00:43] » Seeing it?

[2:00:44] » You're not. I'll scoot it over for you a

[2:00:46] little bit. So, if you look from the

[2:00:48] straight top down, you want to look at

[2:00:49] the black bottom of this chamber and you

[2:00:51] should see Here

[2:00:53] you go. You see all those wispy things

[2:00:57] that are flying around? That's

[2:00:59] radiation. Yep.

[2:01:02] » There you go.

[2:01:04] All right.

[2:01:05] » I do. I'll get you. I have one in that

[2:01:07] in that bag there.

[2:01:08] » Okay. I'll put them on the desk here for

[2:01:10] sure. Um, did anybody not Oh, here you

[2:01:12] go. Did anybody not get to see the

[2:01:14] trails? Yeah. Use the flashlight

[2:01:16] yourself to kind of get a good angle.

[2:01:18] See the

American Nuclear Society Hosts Informational Meeting in Potter County

Agenda

Transcript