[0:02] I would like to begin this meeting

[0:04] . Good evening everyone and thank you for

[0:13] coming. Thank you very much. As

[0:18] everyone knows, the main topic

[0:20] tonight is the situation we are

[0:23] seeing on Evergreen Avenue with a

[0:26] program run by the Department of

[0:29] Correction. There are a couple of

[0:33] administrative matters I need to address under

[0:36] the open meetings law before we

[0:39] move on to the main topic. So I'm going to

[0:42] proceed with that right now. Are there

[0:45] any additions or deletions to the

[0:47] agenda that anyone would like to make? Since there were

[0:50] none. Audience comments

[0:52] on agenda items.

[0:54] Normally this would be the opportunity

[0:58] for the audience to speak, but I'm going to

[1:01] move that point a little further on.

[1:06] I want to hear from the mayor and the

[1:09] police chief first, and then I will open the

[1:12] floor to any member of the public,

[1:15] one by one, so that if they wish to speak,

[1:17] they can try to get straight to the point, if I

[1:20] may politely ask. And after

[1:24] that, we'll ask the

[1:25] Department of Correction if they have

[1:27] anything to say, and then we'll open the

[1:29] debate in general. So, without further

[1:31] ado, I'm going to give you the floor.

[1:33] I want to ask Mayor Donahue to

[1:36] start tonight. I'll just lay

[1:39] the groundwork quickly. Both the

[1:42] mayor and I have received

[1:44] phone calls and communications from

[1:46] residents. Katrina, you had

[1:49] told me several times about the

[1:50] situation up there. She and I have

[1:54] known each other for a long time and,

[1:56] well, some of the things she described to me were worrying, to say the

[1:59] least

[2:01] . So we've come

[2:05] from the beginning of that conversation

[2:08] to this point today. I have spoken with the

[2:11] Commissioner of Corrections. He and I

[2:14] had a meeting via Teams.

[2:16] We have talked. I know he's also

[2:18] spoken to the police chief and

[2:20] the mayor, and well, there have been

[2:22] behind-the-scenes conversations. But I

[2:26] think it's important that we all

[2:27] listen, especially the audience

[2:29] tonight, about the situation they

[2:31] face up there and what we can

[2:33] do, if anything, going

[2:35] forward; We would certainly like to

[2:37] see some action. So, Mr. Mayor,

[2:40] the floor is yours.

[2:41] Yes, well, President O'Leary,

[2:43] thank you very much. First of all, I want to

[2:44] thank you for calling this meeting.

[2:46] As you know, a few weeks ago

[2:48] we listened to the residents and it was

[2:50] quite a passionate discussion that

[2:52] arose during the

[2:54] public sector communications at a

[2:56] regular meeting of the

[2:59] City Council and. Many of us were

[3:01] quite surprised by the intensity

[3:04] of the situation on Evergreen Avenue

[3:06] that the neighbors had reached at

[3:08] that point, 4 years after this

[3:10] program was installed there. So

[3:14] one of the things that concerned us,

[3:16] of course, is the volume of

[3:18] responses to Evergreen Avenue by

[3:20] the

[3:22] Raleigh City Police Department during that

[3:24] 4-year period, and a

[3:25] significant number since January alone, and a

[3:27] significant number even in July of

[3:29] this year. And it's one of those things that I

[3:33] firmly believe the neighbors have

[3:36] tolerated. They have tolerated it for 4

[3:38] years and that is what has brought us

[3:40] to this point. So I want to

[3:42] thank the Board of Councillors

[3:43] for listening to the concerns of the

[3:45] residents. Because these are the kinds of

[3:47] things that I think, you know, there might be

[3:49] a model here. There are a dozen

[3:51] of these types of agreements throughout the

[3:54] city. Perhaps having a third of that

[3:57] in a single location is not the

[3:58] right model. And perhaps that needs to be addressed,

[4:01] and in a different location. So

[4:04] , really, that's

[4:05] probably where we need to get to

[4:06] resolve this, because

[4:08] the neighbors' tolerance has simply run out. That said

[4:11] , I also want to thank

[4:12] our state legislators who

[4:14] are in the room, from the House and the

[4:16] Senate, as well as our

[4:17] police chief and the

[4:19] media who are here, because

[4:20] this is a very important issue for the

[4:22] region, the city as a whole, and our

[4:24] community. Having said that, I also want to

[4:27] thank the

[4:29] Corrections Department, which is present

[4:31] tonight, which we appreciate. Honestly

[4:33] , thank you for being here. And

[4:36] last but not least, the

[4:39] neighbors who are willing to come and

[4:42] talk about what they have been through. And I just

[4:46] want to point out that there are several neighbors

[4:47] who didn't feel comfortable coming

[4:49] because they were worried about reprisals,

[4:51] and that worries me. So I am

[4:53] grateful to the neighbors who are

[4:55] willing to speak out. Four years is a

[4:57] long time, and I think they have been more

[4:59] than tolerant, and I think it's time to

[5:00] change this model. Thank you.

[5:03] Good. Very good, excellent.

[5:05] Thank you so much. So, this is an

[5:07] opportunity for the

[5:10] police chief to come up and give us a brief, uh,

[5:15] well, from his point of view, uh, what's been going on

[5:17] recently and

[5:20] in the last, uh, couple of years, uh,

[5:22] not just with Evergreen Avenue, but, uh,

[5:25] with this whole program as a whole.

[5:28] So, Chief Prouty, uh, you have the

[5:30] floor.

[5:31] Well, I think it would be disingenuous of

[5:32] me to talk about the whole program.

[5:35] Okay, that's fine. I'm sure there are

[5:36] probably many places where it's

[5:38] ...

[5:39] Well, here in Rutland.

[5:40] So, I can, do it, I can do that. And I know there have

[5:43] been some recent changes to

[5:44] the program. First, thank you for

[5:45] inviting me. Um, I'll be brief because I believe

[5:48] the important part of the

[5:49] conversation should come from the public and

[5:52] the neighbors who are here. Um, 57

[5:55] calls doesn't seem like a lot. There are

[5:57] many, especially, um, when you know you

[5:59] 're not receiving all the

[6:01] calls about what happened in a place

[6:03] . Um, my concern isn't so much

[6:07] about correctional facilities or

[6:10] reintegration programs or, um, what people

[6:13] can or cannot necessarily do, but rather that there are

[6:16] problems in the law that tie

[6:19] people's hands. So,

[6:22] when there is a

[6:24] public expectation that people under

[6:26] supervision, um, if they do something wrong, it

[6:29] can be fixed. That's not always

[6:31] true. And it's not the fault of the

[6:33] probation officers, it's not the fault

[6:35] of the Department of Correction as a

[6:36] whole, nor the fault of the

[6:38] reintegration programs. It is either legislative

[6:41] or perhaps there are some rules

[6:43] established at the state level that they

[6:46] have to follow. So, they're

[6:49] probably not going to talk about it

[6:51] tonight, and that's fine, but I do think it

[6:53] needs to be investigated. I am

[6:55] committed to working with our

[6:57] partners in the Department of Correction,

[7:00] specifically with Justin Hanson, a

[7:02] great partner to us and my

[7:04] staff. And the commissioner and I

[7:06] will definitely be in

[7:08] communication, so, um, we're

[7:10] involved. We want to see this

[7:12] resolved. We want people to live in

[7:14] peace in their neighborhood and not have to

[7:15] worry or live in fear. It's not

[7:18] right, especially if something is

[7:19] supported by taxpayer money,

[7:21] so that's what I have. Alright

[7:23] .

[7:23] Thank you.

[7:24] TRUE.

[7:24] Okay, thanks, boss. Thank you.

[7:27] And you know, we've heard several times

[7:29] from the boss about, you know, the number of

[7:31] calls and the quality of the calls and

[7:34] what's been going on up there

[7:36] . So, I guess we never

[7:38] heard that enough. It's

[7:40] simply important for our

[7:41] friends in the correctional system and the

[7:43] general public to hear that.

[7:46] As the Chief mentioned, it is important

[7:50] that we listen to the public or the

[7:53] neighbors when and if they wish to speak. This

[7:58] will undoubtedly be their opportunity. All

[8:00] they have to do is raise their hand, come up

[8:03] to the podium, tell us their name, and it

[8:05] will be their turn. So, whoever wants to

[8:07] start first. Very good, Katrina.

[8:12] Thank you for coming. Thank you.

[8:15] This is your chance, so go

[8:17] ahead, please.

[8:18] OK. Thank you for having me. Uh,

[8:21] my name is Katrina. I own

[8:25] a property on Evergreen Avenue. I

[8:27] own, uh, what used to be

[8:29] my father's house, what used to be my

[8:31] house, my childhood home. Oh, and

[8:34] now I'm the landlord. Uh, I grew up

[8:38] there. My father passed away in that house and

[8:40] now I have wonderful tenants

[8:42] who live here. And he, uh, Scott,

[8:46] lives in my father's apartment

[8:48] right next door to 43 Evergreen

[8:50] Avenue. Uh, my family has called

[8:52] this street home for 100 years. It's

[8:55] not something I just walked into

[8:57] or moved into. My great-grandparents,

[8:59] both sets, uh, lived there and

[9:01] raised their children there. My grandparents

[9:03] were neighbors and met on that

[9:05] street, and my uncles and my parents raised

[9:07] their children there. In 2023, I bought a

[9:10] second property on Evergreen Avenue.

[9:12] I decided to buy it because I love this

[9:14] neighborhood and because I wanted to help

[9:16] protect it from the kind of situation we

[9:19] were experiencing, and still are

[9:21] experiencing, at 43 Evergreen

[9:23] Avenue. And that's why I'm here tonight

[9:25] . For the past four

[9:27] years, residents of this street have

[9:29] dealt with constant problems

[9:30] related to this property. And

[9:32] I want to emphasize the part about constants. My

[9:36] tenants and neighbors have called me

[9:38] repeatedly with concerns

[9:40] over the past few years. They have

[9:41] expressed feeling nervous,

[9:43] uncomfortable, and scared, and I have received

[9:45] calls and complaints about the frequent

[9:47] police presence and

[9:49] ongoing disturbances surrounding this property. These are not

[9:51] occasional worries of a

[9:53] single person. These are recurring complaints from

[9:56] people who live there day after day

[9:58] . As a landlord and friend to many of

[10:03] the people on the street, it is extremely

[10:05] difficult for them to tell me that they do not feel

[10:07] safe in the neighborhood and that they are

[10:09] worried about what is happening next door. We have

[10:14] all witnessed

[10:17] criminal activity, street fights, fights

[10:19] with neighbors, drugs going in and out

[10:21] of the house, shouting at night, damage

[10:24] to surrounding property, cars

[10:26] forced open, searched, and people looking

[10:28] inside houses and watching

[10:30] small children. These things have

[10:34] changed the way people live

[10:35] on this street. People used to walk

[10:38] along Evergreen Avenue, but they don't anymore

[10:39] . People are afraid to let

[10:42] their children ride bikes or play

[10:44] outside without worrying about what they

[10:45] might find, and this is not how it

[10:47] should feel in a

[10:49] residential neighborhood. And although the property

[10:52] has only recently begun to receive any

[10:53] maintenance, that doesn't

[10:55] erase the problems that have occurred

[10:56] over the past four years.

[10:59] There are still parts of the property that

[11:00] need attention and damage to

[11:02] surrounding properties that need to be

[11:04] addressed. There is also

[11:06] real concern about the impact

[11:08] this has on the value and

[11:09] desirability of the homes

[11:11] surrounding 43 Evergreen. We have

[11:13] invested our money and our

[11:15] lives in these homes. This street has

[11:17] been my whole life. My whole life and the

[11:19] lives of my whole family, and everyone

[11:21] there is raising their

[11:23] families and bringing their grandchildren.

[11:26] I also want to make it clear that this is not about

[11:28] saying that people who

[11:30] have made mistakes in their lives do not

[11:32] deserve rehabilitation or a

[11:34] chance to rebuild their lives.

[11:37] Because they do deserve it. But that doesn't

[11:39] mean every property is a

[11:41] suitable location or that compassion

[11:43] for those in need of support should come at the

[11:45] expense of families already living

[11:47] in the neighborhood. At some point

[11:50] we must recognize when something

[11:51] simply isn't working.

[11:54] Four years of repeated problems

[11:56] are not an isolated incident. It's a pattern

[11:59] . And the people who live there are the

[12:01] ones who have been living with that

[12:03] pattern. I want the children to have

[12:06] the Evergreen Avenue that I

[12:08] grew up with, that we grew up with, my cousins

[12:10] , my mom. Hey, I want you to ride your

[12:13] bikes. I want the neighbors to

[12:16] feel comfortable walking down their

[12:18] own street. I want families to

[12:19] feel safe in their homes. And

[12:21] I want to protect the neighborhood that my

[12:23] family, my tenants, neighbors, and

[12:25] friends call home. So

[12:27] tonight, I ask you to listen to the

[12:29] residents who have lived with this. We've

[12:31] given him time. We have observed what

[12:34] has happened. We have lived with the

[12:36] consequences. And we're not

[12:38] asking them to prevent anything from happening. We

[12:40] ask you to stop something that is already

[12:42] happening. The people of

[12:47] Evergreen Avenue deserve a

[12:49] safe place to live, grow up, raise their

[12:52] children, and a safe place where

[12:54] people can feel at home.

[12:57] Thank you.

[12:58] Very good, Katrina. Thank you so much.

[13:04] Thank you. So, would anyone else in the

[13:07] neighborhood like to stand up and talk

[13:09] ? They certainly don't have to,

[13:10] but they are more than welcome if they

[13:12] wish to do so. It is entirely voluntary. And

[13:19] we see that we have someone interested.

[13:21] Thank you. Good evening, sir. And

[13:24] thank you. And if you could

[13:25] kindly provide your name for the record,

[13:27] then we will give you the floor.

[13:30] My name is Jared Blake, and I live next door

[13:32] to the property in question.

[13:35] OK.

[13:36] Um...this has been an ongoing problem

[13:44] since the opening of this

[13:50] transitional house. They

[13:52] might not call it a

[13:53] transitional home. They may call it something else

[13:57] , but the reality is that it is what it

[13:59] is. It's a transitional house and,

[14:02] um, it doesn't, contrary to what

[14:06] the press releases from your department say, make

[14:10] Rutland any safer. On the

[14:16] contrary, it makes our neighborhood

[14:18] less safe and the city

[14:20] less safe. For example, an article

[14:26] in the Rutland Herald from October 17,

[14:30] 2022, begins like this: "A man

[14:34] sentenced to 15 to 35 years in prison

[14:36] after beating another man to

[14:38] death with a baseball bat is

[14:40] back in jail on a

[14:42] domestic assault charge." That happened...that

[14:47] resulted from a fight with a woman

[14:52] and her daughter who ended up on

[14:59] my porch asking us to call

[15:02] the police. There's a...You

[15:06] put the guy who beat someone

[15:08] to death on our street. And it

[15:11] wasn't until he threatened...that he

[15:12] threatened to kill someone else or

[15:14] physically harm someone else,

[15:16] that the matter was addressed. And that was

[15:20] 4 years ago. It has been an

[15:23] ongoing problem ever since. And it all

[15:27] stems, in a way, from the crime

[15:29] for which they were convicted, the

[15:31] pattern of, you know, if it was

[15:33] drug-related, there was

[15:35] drug activity there. If it was

[15:39] related to robbery, there was someone

[15:42] looking through my window. Um...And

[15:49] I have two small children, two

[15:52] years old and one year old. I can't, I can't

[15:55] let them play in our own

[15:57] backyard for fear of their safety. Um,

[16:02] this is something I understand. I mean

[16:07] , people when they complete their sentence,

[16:10] whatever, and they're released on

[16:13] parole or probation because they

[16:16] behaved well in prison, because they didn't

[16:18] kill anyone with a baseball bat in there

[16:21] . Um, now they're letting them

[16:25] out. I understand there is a protocol and

[16:28] a mechanism and a need for...

[16:30] But...our city has contemplated in

[16:37] our zoning regulations

[16:41] that...um...that transitional homes

[16:47] are limited to a certain area and

[16:50] are approved by a conditional use permit

[16:53] . And to obtain

[16:57] conditional use permission, you have to

[16:59] be in a certain area. And this

[17:03] doesn't fall into that category. And certainly no

[17:08] permission was requested from

[17:10] Pathways, the owner, you, um,

[17:13] at all. So, I think there is

[17:18] simply a lack of respect for

[17:20] the city's preferences regarding the

[17:23] location of these facilities that

[17:25] has been completely

[17:29] ignored by the DOC. Um, but ultimately

[17:35] I want Evergreen Avenue to be a

[17:38] place where people feel

[17:41] safe. I want my children to be able to go

[17:45] to the backyard and feel safe.

[17:49] I want us to know

[17:51] who is coming in,

[17:53] who is going out, or who is going to cross the

[17:55] line without having to look over our shoulders. It's great what they've been

[17:59] trying to do over the last 2

[18:01] weeks to cut the grass and

[18:03] keep things in order. But there has

[18:06] been a great deal of neglect of this

[18:08] property by Pathways,

[18:11] the DOC, and the owner, with

[18:14] everyone passing the buck

[18:17] and ultimately

[18:20] terrorizing our neighborhood. And

[18:26] well, I mean, we just want a

[18:28] safe environment for our family to

[18:31] grow up in. And that won't happen while I

[18:35] 'm there. They may limit who

[18:39] is there right now, but that doesn't

[18:42] solve the problem. It is only resolved

[18:45] when the entire house is closed and

[18:48] the inhabitants are moved to a

[18:50] different location. Preferably,

[18:54] they would respect the

[18:56] city's zoning and apply for a

[18:58] conditional use permit in a designated location

[19:01] , and follow the

[19:03] proper process in that way. In this way,

[19:05] there is an opportunity for

[19:08] neighboring property owners to express their

[19:10] concerns to the DRB at that time.

[19:14] That didn't happen here. But in the end

[19:21] we need a safe street and this

[19:24] isn't happening because, ultimately

[19:26] , you don't know what's

[19:30] coming next. Who is

[19:33] eligible for a temporary permit

[19:35] afterward? You know. Um, so

[19:39] we're really playing dice

[19:42] with every new resident they put

[19:44] there and we'd really prefer they

[19:47] close it down, both for the safety of

[19:50] our street and the

[19:52] wider community. But in the end, I'm

[20:00] sorry. I say "in the end" a lot, but in the

[20:03] end, this is a horrible situation.

[20:07] The DOC's arguments that

[20:09] this makes Rutland a safer area

[20:12] because of these facts are not the

[20:15] reality. It's quite the opposite. And the

[20:20] arguments are false. If they want to

[20:24] experience that, I encourage them to open

[20:27] a rehabilitation center next to

[20:30] their house. Um, and see what they think. It's

[20:33] horrible. It's been a nightmare every

[20:36] night for the past 4 years. And it doesn't matter

[20:40] if it's Y, as the boss said, they had

[20:45] who knows how many calls this

[20:47] past year. How many times did we

[20:50] simply not feel like

[20:51] calling again? Too many. And this has to

[20:57] stop. And as a city,

[21:03] if they allow this to continue. What they

[21:09] are causing is that every

[21:12] family district, every

[21:14] single-family residential district in the city, is at the

[21:16] mercy of anyone. How will

[21:21] that affect, you know, the relative, you know,

[21:26] perception of the city? And how does

[21:30] that influence, um, you know, what

[21:38] one can expect from their neighborhood? If

[21:42] you have a single-family district,

[21:43] you should expect certain things. And

[21:46] we're not getting that, and the whole

[21:48] city is exposed to that

[21:49] everywhere else, not just in

[21:51] Evergreen. Thank you.

[21:53] Okay, thank you very much. Okay, is there

[22:01] anyone else from the neighborhood or the

[22:03] audience who would like to talk about

[22:06] this, perhaps about a part we

[22:08] haven't heard? Oh, okay. Oh I'm

[22:11] sorry. Right here. Well,

[22:21] they're applauding. That's a good

[22:23] sign.

[22:28] Angela DeAngelo, 79 Evergreen.

[22:30] Thank you.

[22:31] That used to be our house. We had

[22:32] that house for, I don't know how many years, 30

[22:34] years or more. It was a big house, and

[22:37] yes.

[22:37] When we sold it, the guy said, "

[22:38] What are your tenants like?" We said, "

[22:40] They're great." He said, "Fine, I'll

[22:41] keep them." Before we even started

[22:43] signing on the dotted line,

[22:44] they received an eviction notice. So it was

[22:45] never what it was supposed to

[22:47] be. Approximately one year

[22:49] after selling it, I spoke with Sharon

[22:51] Davis several times because something was going on

[22:52] there. We thought it was some kind of

[22:54] rehabilitation house. Legally,

[22:56] nothing indicated that it was. And does it make

[23:01] any sense for someone to take

[23:03] this rehabilitation house and the

[23:07] important thing is their history, their

[23:09] criminal history, it's a

[23:11] criminal history? So why put

[23:14] that in a quiet residential neighborhood

[23:16] with people trying to

[23:17] raise their families? I mean, I grew up

[23:19] here, you know, on this street. We've

[23:21] been on that street for about 40, more

[23:23] than 40 years, probably 50. It's a

[23:26] great street, it's a great street. It's a

[23:27] great neighborhood, but it doesn't make sense

[23:29] to me. And this guy just

[23:31] said that calls to the police

[23:33] there over the last year, just the

[23:35] last year, are ridiculously high.

[23:38] I live at the other end of the dead-

[23:41] end street and every time you pass by, there's sometimes

[23:43] something going on almost every

[23:45] day, as my neighbor can attest.

[23:48] But now, today, yesterday,

[23:51] something was happening. There were many cars

[23:53] there, and they looked like unmarked cars. I can't say

[23:55] for sure, but something was

[23:57] happening just yesterday. So, give us

[24:00] a break. Let's do the right thing for the

[24:02] city and for the people who live in this

[24:03] neighborhood, because they are

[24:05] really good people.

[24:07] OK. Well, thank you very much.

[24:09] Thank you. Alright. Is there anyone else from the

[24:16] neighborhood or the general public

[24:19] who would like to talk about this?

[24:21] OK. Very good. Thank you. Thank you for

[24:26] raising your hand. It's good to see.

[24:28] Thank you. Kindly, if you could just

[24:30] for the registration, your name and

[24:32] address and your name, and then you can

[24:34] continue.

[24:35] Uh, my name is Scott Robertson. I live

[24:37] at 41 Evergreen.

[24:39] OK. The apartment is yours.

[24:42] I moved there in January 2020. Um, I'm getting to

[24:49] know Katrina there. And looking at

[24:52] the house and the neighborhood, it was a

[24:54] very quiet place. I was very happy once I

[24:57] moved there. And so, the

[25:01] people who resided in that building

[25:03] at that time were long-

[25:06] term residents. Very calm, peaceful, and

[25:09] friendly people. Um, and then the house was sold. They

[25:14] were all evicted. Um, and then

[25:18] this started. I

[25:26] 'm often not around during the day. I usually

[25:28] work in the northern part of the state. I

[25:31] leave between 5:00 and 6:00 in the

[25:33] morning and arrive home between 5:00 and

[25:35] 6:00 at night. But, um, the

[25:40] nighttime activity is what bothers me the most

[25:43] . I don't see the patrol cars

[25:48] during the day, or, um, I myself have to

[25:52] , I feel like I have to keep my

[25:55] blinds closed 24 hours a

[25:58] day because I see them walking up and

[26:01] down my driveway, the residents of

[26:05] 43rd. They've broken into my cars twice.

[26:11] Um, and I received a tip from another neighbor

[26:13] who happened to wake up in the middle of the

[26:16] night and see people snooping

[26:17] around my cars in the driveway

[26:20] for the third time. Um, it's simply an

[26:26] unsustainable situation and I feel we were

[26:29] never given the opportunity to

[26:31] express our opinion before

[26:34] this change occurred. Um, we were never

[26:38] asked if we thought it was a

[26:40] good idea. Never, we never had

[26:42] any opportunity to give our

[26:45] opinion. Um, so I'd like to see

[26:49] this change. It is, it is unsustainable.

[26:53] Katrina indicated that my grandchildren live in

[26:56] Florida. They're coming for a couple of weeks

[26:59] during the summer. I can't let them stay

[27:02] with me. Because I'm not going to put them,

[27:08] or myself, in that situation. It's simply

[27:11] not safe. Um, as

[27:14] our other neighbor indicated,

[27:17] the house has been cleaned in recent weeks. The

[27:20] trash and debris have been

[27:22] removed from the porch facing my

[27:24] house. Um, the grass has been cut.

[27:30] Maybe it was 6 weeks ago that it was cut for the

[27:32] first time all summer. The grass

[27:34] was this high. Um, there are still

[27:37] bits of grass all over the sidewalk. It

[27:39] still looks like a disaster. Um. The

[27:45] lack of maintenance is terrible. Um,

[27:50] it's just that it's ruining the

[27:52] neighborhood and making our lives not the way they

[27:58] should be. So that's all I have to

[28:01] say. I don't have any

[28:03] notes prepared or anything like that.

[28:04] That's ok. You did well. You

[28:06] did very well. Okay, anyone else?

[28:15] I have to say that I can't.

[28:16] Okay, you can sit down. Well, we

[28:20] know her better than that.

[28:24] Okay, my name is Karen and um, I bought

[28:26] 3941 Evergreen Avenue long before

[28:29] we had Katrina. And it was a

[28:33] lovely neighborhood, and I grew up on

[28:35] M and M Avenue where my mom, who is

[28:37] very old, lives there. And um, I

[28:40] worry about her constantly. Um,

[28:44] with all this mess that's going on

[28:46] here. I don't understand how this happened, and

[28:49] I think Corrections, or the DOC, or the

[28:51] city, I think we have enough

[28:54] smart people in this city to

[28:57] realize that this is wrong.

[29:00] We need to change this. I mean,

[29:03] we're paying a lot of taxes to

[29:05] live there. Why is

[29:07] this happening? Can anyone tell me?

[29:11] No.

[29:13] Really? It's disgusting. I'm sorry.

[29:16] Okay, Karen.

[29:17] You think in an

[29:18] intelligent way, because I, I know that

[29:20] everyone is intelligent. Suggest something

[29:22] where, um, they can have a

[29:24] safe neighborhood again. And that means

[29:27] , you know, they're paying a

[29:29] lot of taxes. There are many children around

[29:31] . Um, there are some older people around

[29:34] . And these people have made mistakes

[29:37] . They don't belong there. They are not

[29:40] supervised. And this needs to stop.

[29:44] That's all I have to say.

[29:48] Very good. If anyone has anything they would

[29:50] like to add. Tom, I'm going to, I'm going to

[29:53] open the shift for everyone in the

[29:54] legislative delegation. I will make sure

[29:56] the public has their chance

[29:58] first.

[29:58] Understood.

[29:59] Thank you. I

[30:00] 'll be brief.

[30:01] If you like, you certainly can do it.

[30:03] Good.

[30:04] And if I could kindly ask for your

[30:06] name and address for registration.

[30:08] Clear. My name is Chris Sweeney. I am

[30:11] Katrina's husband. Uh, we've

[30:13] remodeled those apartments, 41 and

[30:16] 43. Uh, I just wanted to, I'll be

[30:19] brief. I am a person with

[30:21] very strong opinions. I'm not going to get into that.

[30:23] I think this is a pretty

[30:25] classic case of suicidal empathy. It is not

[30:28] right to put the residents of that

[30:31] street in danger for people

[30:33] seeking a second chance. The

[30:36] citizens of that street must come

[30:38] first. So that's all I have to

[30:40] say.

[30:40] OK. Thank you, Chris.

[30:42] Thank you. Thank you so much. Good. Have

[30:47] all members of the

[30:48] public been heard? I'm going to open the

[30:52] floor to any member of our

[30:54] legislative delegation who wishes to

[30:56] speak or say something about what they've

[30:59] heard, whatever it may be, and Tom, if

[31:01] you want to start, you certainly may

[31:03] . I need to

[31:04] see if they accept people from outside

[31:05] the city or not.

[31:08] Well, we don't normally accept anyone

[31:10] from West Rutland, but since you've

[31:14] been here

[31:15] for 40 years... I know you did it

[31:17] . I know you did it.

[31:19] Good. So, Tom Burditt.

[31:21] Yes.

[31:22] my name is Tom Burditt. I am a

[31:23] state representative for West Rutland.

[31:26] Thank you.

[31:27] And vice chairman of the House Judiciary Committee

[31:29] . And what comes to

[31:32] mind, one of the things is, you know,

[31:34] with this demographic group, I guess you

[31:36] could say, is that there are

[31:38] some negative elements. And it doesn't

[31:41] matter how many, I don't think it matters

[31:43] how many you have in a house, whether you

[31:45] have one, two, four, or ten. If

[31:47] someone is going to cause trouble, they

[31:49] will cause it no matter where they are. And

[31:51] maybe, you know, the number of

[31:54] people at Evergreen should be reduced. I do

[31:56] n't know. But what worries me

[32:00] is whether the laws we have are

[32:02] strong enough to solve this

[32:04] problem. I'm pretty sure that,

[32:08] in some cases, when there's a

[32:11] violation of probation or

[32:13] conditions, someone doesn't

[32:15] necessarily have to go back to

[32:18] jail. Uh, or he could go back to

[32:21] jail. There could be other

[32:24] ramifications, I suppose. But something that

[32:27] comes to mind is that we had a

[32:30] bill in committee

[32:33] last year that will be reintroduced this

[32:36] year and hopefully will gain momentum. And what

[32:39] the bill did or does is

[32:42] , uh, there's an epidemic in the state of

[32:47] failure to appear in court

[32:48] . And what happens to those people who do

[32:53] n't appear in court? They

[32:55] could be sent to jail,

[32:58] but they aren't. They are given another paper

[33:01] that says they have another date to

[33:04] appear in court, and they don't

[33:06] show up, and it happens again and again and again

[33:09] . And what happens with the bill is,

[33:12] if it's not filed, they find him,

[33:16] arrest him, and take him to jail. And

[33:20] maybe I need to go through something like this with

[33:22] this, because I have to believe that

[33:24] some of these people are

[33:27] violating their conditions. And

[33:30] I'm certainly willing to work with the chief,

[33:33] the city attorney, the

[33:36] state attorney, with whom I've already worked, and

[33:38] put something together. And from there, it's very

[33:41] likely that it won't go through my committee; It will

[33:43] go to the corrections committee, a

[33:45] bill like that. But just to get

[33:48] something started, because, again, you take

[33:49] these people and move them, and I'm

[33:51] totally in favor of moving them. I

[33:53] mean, that neighborhood has

[33:55] had enough, and I think they need to

[33:57] go somewhere else. But if we

[34:00] move them to another neighborhood, there will be

[34:03] similar problems. And these people

[34:06] are violating their conditions and

[34:09] perhaps need more than a

[34:12] little talk and a pat on the

[34:15] wrist. Maybe they'll need to spend, you

[34:17] know, a few nights on the

[34:19] corner of Pierpont and State. Thank you. You are

[34:22] welcome. Thanks, Tom. So, before

[34:25] the meeting began, I

[34:27] asked the commissioner if he wanted to

[34:29] speak. He said he wanted to listen to the

[34:32] neighbors. At any time during

[34:35] this meeting, you are more than welcome

[34:37] to stand up and speak. They don't have to

[34:39] , but they certainly can. And I'm going

[34:42] to ask if there's anyone else, whether

[34:45] from the delegation. I want to ask you

[34:48] first why you are our guests.

[34:49] If they want to say something, they don't have to

[34:51] . They are here to listen. You

[34:54] know, bring some ideas, like what you just

[34:56] heard from Tom, back to

[34:59] the Capitol. Those of you who

[35:01] will be returning to the Capitol, perhaps

[35:03] we can accomplish something in January. That's the

[35:06] underlying problem with all of this. It's, you

[35:09] know, what do we do with the people

[35:11] who come in and out through the

[35:13] revolving door? There is no doubt about it. And,

[35:16] uh, I hope some eyes and ears

[35:18] are open to what this means

[35:21] in practice for people. Not

[35:23] just in Rolling City, but all over, um, the

[35:26] entire state. Uh, especially in

[35:28] the larger communities that, you

[35:30] know, are bearing the brunt of it.

[35:32] So I'll ask one more time, I'm going

[35:34] to address the councilor, I want to

[35:35] ask our guests, to

[35:37] make sure everyone has a

[35:38] chance to speak. Would you like to

[35:41] talk, Commissioner? He certainly can

[35:43] do it. He certainly can do it.

[35:46] Uh, my name is John, I'm the

[35:50] Vermont Department of Correction Commissioner, and I wanted to

[35:52] assure everyone here,

[35:53] especially the residents of

[35:55] Evergreen, that we hear you. Hey,

[35:57] we're here. Uh, a large number of

[35:59] us from the Department of Correction

[36:01] are here. I've been in touch.

[36:03] Uh, I had an excellent and long

[36:05] conversation with Chief Prouty

[36:08] two weeks ago. I had a conversation with

[36:10] the mayor. Um, this is something that has been on our minds

[36:13] and we are seriously considering

[36:15] it. Uh, after my meeting

[36:18] with the boss, I went to Evergreen and talked

[36:20] to people who were leaving the park and

[36:22] walking their dogs. Uh, and I got

[36:25] a sense of that neighborhood. It's a

[36:28] beautiful street and a lovely place for

[36:30] families. Right now, we have

[36:33] two people in that location, uh, not

[36:35] four. Um, we're exploring other

[36:38] options. Uh, we're also open

[36:42] to new ideas, but I want to reinforce the

[36:44] idea that an individual who has

[36:46] housing when released is safer

[36:48] for everyone, both for that individual

[36:50] and for the community, than a person

[36:52] who does not have housing. Uh, in Vermont

[36:56] we emphasize the idea of liberation.

[37:00] There are several statutes that use the

[37:02] phrase "less restrictive" in terms of

[37:04] how we detain people, both

[37:07] in the sense of mental health custody

[37:09] and in the sense of

[37:10] jail custody, prison or jail. Um, in

[37:14] Vermont, uh, we have 1,700

[37:18] people incarcerated. That's the

[37:21] lowest number of any state,

[37:23] other than Massachusetts, per capita.

[37:26] And that includes detainees and

[37:28] sentenced individuals. The ratio is

[37:31] approximately 40% and 60%. 40% are

[37:33] people detained awaiting

[37:36] sentencing or trial, and about 60% are

[37:39] sentenced. Uh, the other 4,800

[37:42] people who are under the

[37:44] supervision of the Department of

[37:46] Correction are in the community.

[37:49] That is a legislative decision. This

[37:51] is how our legislature and

[37:53] judicial system work. And for

[37:56] many, that's the right choice:

[37:58] to be in the community instead of being

[38:01] incarcerated. Um, I think, as

[38:04] Chief Prouty said, there may be cases where

[38:06] that might not be the best

[38:08] option for people. I hear your

[38:10] idea of a stricter response

[38:13] regarding bail. Some of

[38:16] you may know that I was

[38:18] police chief in Burlington for several

[38:20] years before taking this position for the

[38:22] state. That's something I also saw in

[38:25] Burlington. We have observed the

[38:27] creation, by Governor

[38:29] Scott, of the so-called court of

[38:31] accountability, which began in

[38:33] Chittenden County, but has been

[38:35] successful here. We have analyzed the

[38:38] idea of moving people

[38:40] through the system more quickly

[38:42] , that is, through the

[38:44] trial stage, the due process part of the

[38:46] system, and, when necessary,

[38:48] using incarceration as a

[38:50] response to people's illegal and

[38:52] criminal behavior. Regarding the

[38:55] work here in Rutland, I am

[38:57] proud to say that our

[38:59] Rutland probation office

[39:02] works very closely with the

[39:03] Rutland Police Department.

[39:07] Our district manager, Justin, is

[39:09] someone who is very involved with

[39:11] the police. We've been paying closer attention

[39:14] to the property in question since

[39:16] these issues arose, but we

[39:18] 're taking it very, very seriously.

[39:21] I hear the concerns that have been

[39:22] expressed tonight. We'll revisit

[39:25] this in the broadcast with other

[39:27] parts of the team and take it very

[39:29] seriously. And I am very grateful for the

[39:32] opportunity to speak before this

[39:34] body, both to the council members and

[39:36] to the residents.

[39:38] Good, commissioner. Thank you so much for

[39:40] that. Thank you. So I'm going to go over here

[39:42] inside the railing and see which

[39:44] board members

[39:46] wish to speak. And it seems we have

[39:47] several hands raised, so I'm going to

[39:49] give the floor. Larry wants to

[39:50] go first. Councilman Reilly.

[39:52] Thank you, Mr. President. Is there

[39:53] anyone here from Pathways

[39:55] representing Pathways tonight?

[39:58] Behind you. I

[40:03] just have a couple of questions if...

[40:06] you wish to answer, you certainly may

[40:08] , but you are not obligated to. Please

[40:10] excuse my stumble while speaking.

[40:13] Who is responsible for that house in

[40:16] terms of maintenance and

[40:19] ensuring that the occupants do

[40:22] what they are supposed to do? Is there

[40:26] staff on site?

[40:28] There are staff present at the location.

[40:31] Sorry? Yes please.

[40:34] Yes, if I could. So, yes. Thank you

[40:37] . Thank you. I don't want to put you on the

[40:39] spot, but this is your chance

[40:41] to give your side of the story

[40:43] too, and that would be a great help.

[40:45] So, if I could ask for your name

[40:46] too.

[40:46] Clear. Well, my name is Sierra

[40:48] Streeter, and I'm the

[40:49] statewide housing operations manager

[40:51] for Pathways Vermont. I work closely

[40:53] with the Department of

[40:55] Corrections staff for the

[40:57] transitional housing program that supports

[40:59] individuals at 43 Evergreen and other

[41:01] properties.

[41:02] Understood.

[41:03] First of all, I

[41:05] want to echo the

[41:08] Commissioner's statement that

[41:10] Pathways also listens to you and wants you to

[41:13] know that you are being heard, that we

[41:15] take what you say very seriously and

[41:18] validate your points. So I just

[41:21] wanted to start by saying that to all of

[41:22] you.

[41:26] As for who is responsible for

[41:27] that particular property, I believe that

[41:29] was Aldama Cooley's question.

[41:31] Yes. We have a

[41:33] lease agreement with the

[41:35] building owner. Maintenance, such as mowing

[41:38] the lawn, clearing snow, and removing

[41:41] trash, are included in

[41:43] our rental agreement with the owner. I can

[41:46] talk about the lawn mowing situation

[41:49] . One of the

[41:52] maintenance people was unable to work. And I

[41:56] was looking for someone else to

[41:57] do it. We weren't

[42:00] immediately aware of that. So I

[42:02] apologize because the property did not

[42:04] meet the

[42:05] community's needs and expectations regarding

[42:07] lawn mowing.

[42:09] Okay, and a follow-up question.

[42:10] Forward.

[42:11] If you'll allow me, one more question.

[42:13] Is the property owner a

[42:15] local resident? Are they a resident of the

[42:18] state? I

[42:19] don't know his home address

[42:21] or if he lives in the state of California.

[42:24] Yes. And what is the

[42:29] monthly rent for that property?

[42:32] Per unit?

[42:34] Yes.

[42:34] I think it's $1,250. Is

[42:37] that for the whole house?

[42:39] No, that's just for an apartment.

[42:41] Sorry?

[42:41] Just for an apartment.

[42:43] Thank you. And what responsibilities does

[42:47] Pathways have to ensure that these

[42:52] residents behave, I suppose?

[42:56] Clear. Obviously, we do not enforce

[42:59] anyone's conditions under the

[43:01] Department of Corrections. That's

[43:04] from the Department of Corrections, and

[43:06] we maintain close communication

[43:08] with them about it. They are given an

[43:12] agreement, which was recently changed to

[43:14] give us a more effective way to

[43:16] remove someone from the house

[43:19] more quickly. Um. So we hope that's

[43:23] something that can help. We

[43:25] implemented it in July. And now, if we are

[43:28] informed of a

[43:30] serious problem, we can remove them immediately,

[43:32] which was not the case previously.

[43:34] Um, therefore, they are following an

[43:37] agreement based on participation and

[43:39] fulfilling their obligations

[43:41] under that agreement, so they

[43:43] cannot violate it, um, or they will be asked

[43:46] to leave. Um, they are also asked

[43:49] to participate in, um,

[43:52] constructive activities, such as looking for another

[43:54] home, looking for income, things like that.

[43:57] Um, there's no supervision on site. We do not

[43:59] provide them with treatment. It is not

[44:02] a requirement to be a previous user of

[44:04] substances to enter that

[44:07] property, nor to be sober. Um, so

[44:11] .

[44:14] So there's really no oversight

[44:16] there.

[44:17] So if I could. I just want to

[44:19] make sure that's clear. The

[44:21] agreement is between Pathways and the

[44:23] resident of the, uh.

[44:25] The occupant, yes.

[44:26] the occupant of the property and that is

[44:28] signed at the beginning of the residence.

[44:30] Correct.

[44:30] OK.

[44:31] And their conditions are incorporated

[44:33] into that. So if they break their

[44:34] conditions, they are also breaking

[44:35] our agreement. Therefore, we

[44:37] can also ask them to leave if they have

[44:38] breached their conditions in the case.

[44:39] And I think I know the answer to this

[44:41] question. Most of us

[44:43] know this, but there is no staff on

[44:45] site, um, during the day or night

[44:47] monitoring the comings and goings of

[44:49] the, uh, occupants. Is that correct?

[44:52] 24/7, no, there is no supervision on

[44:54] site.

[44:54] Yes. Very good. Thank you. So I'm going to

[44:57] continue. Thank you.

[44:58] so much. You are

[44:59] welcome.

[45:00] Councillor Clifford.

[45:01] Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. President

[45:03] , could you just, uh, ask

[45:04] the commissioner a question, please? He

[45:05] certainly can do it. I think

[45:06] you, you...should we

[45:07] start with each other or not?

[45:08] Okay, go ahead.

[45:09] OK.

[45:10] Yes. Thanks for coming up there.

[45:12] Thank you. Commissioner, if you don't mind

[45:14] , we have a council member who has

[45:15] a question for you. He is Paul

[45:17] Clifford.

[45:18] Thank you for coming, Commissioner. Um,

[45:19] simply because of what we're

[45:21] dealing with and what the neighbors have

[45:23] been dealing with for the past

[45:25] 4 years, um, can you envision

[45:27] this house being shut down and the occupants being

[45:29] relocated? I ca

[45:31] n't commit to any of that at

[45:32] this time. I, I, we, as I

[45:35] said, this is something that has occupied us

[45:37] since we found out after the

[45:38] last meeting of the Board of

[45:40] Councilors or not the last one, there

[45:42] may have been other

[45:43] intermediate meetings, but the meeting in which

[45:45] this was raised. We've been thinking about

[45:49] it a lot, talking about it a lot, we've

[45:51] had personal and

[45:53] professional meetings with various stakeholders,

[45:55] but I can't commit to any

[45:57] specific motion or effort at this

[45:59] time. There are many pieces at stake, and

[46:02] that includes our position in other

[46:04] locations in the city and across the

[46:06] state. The ability to house

[46:09] people leaving a period of

[46:12] incarceration is extremely important

[46:14] to our obligation to ensure

[46:17] that they successfully reintegrate into the

[46:19] community. I

[46:21] understand, but are you aware

[46:24] of any other places in the state

[46:26] with a similar situation?

[46:29] At this time, no, I am not

[46:30] aware of any other place that has.

[46:33] I was referring to this because of this

[46:34] situation, because of what these people

[46:36] have been going through for the past

[46:38] 4 years. I was hoping that you and your team

[46:42] could seriously consider closing it

[46:46] and relocating.

[46:48] We are seriously considering every

[46:50] option in front of us

[46:51] at this time, sir.

[46:53] Thank you.

[46:53] Alright

[46:54] . I'll give you the floor on that

[46:56] .

[46:58] Although I appreciate that the commissioner

[46:59] says they have been addressing these

[47:01] issues since the residents

[47:03] brought them to the commission's attention

[47:05] . My question is, where has

[47:08] the oversight been for the

[47:09] past 4 years? They can talk a lot

[47:11] about wanting to believe in the program and

[47:13] helping people integrate into the

[47:15] community. I think that's fantastic.

[47:17] But without supervision, what good is it?

[47:20] If there is no oversight, if there is no

[47:22] accountability for anyone

[47:23] living there, everything falls on the neighbors

[47:25] to deal with the

[47:27] negative consequences.

[47:27] And the municipal police.

[47:29] And if a

[47:31] neighborhood is going to have one of these

[47:33] houses basically placed in the middle of

[47:35] their homes, there should be, there should be

[47:38] oversight. There should be an

[47:41] equal amount of effort, money,

[47:43] and thought invested in what will be done

[47:47] for supervision as in

[47:49] how we are going to help these people

[47:51] make the transition. And it seems somewhat

[47:53] unbalanced. It seems that the emphasis

[47:55] is more on helping these people

[47:57] who are in transition, but if there is no

[47:58] accountability for them,

[48:00] then you are not really

[48:01] helping them either.

[48:02] Correct.

[48:06] Thank you so much.

[48:07] But I think some

[48:09] things have been said. I suppose one question I

[48:11] have, perhaps for the commissioner, is

[48:13] how are they being housed there? How are they being

[48:15] placed there? Is there a court order

[48:18] that says they're going to 43 Evergreen

[48:20] Avenue? What are they like? How are they being housed

[48:24] on this property?

[48:29] I, I guess, my name is Gary

[48:30] Marvel. I am the director of

[48:32] adult services.

[48:33] Yes,

[48:35] thanks. Thank you for getting up.

[48:37] Thank you.

[48:38] Yes, there is a case assignment process

[48:40] . Essentially, the case is reviewed

[48:42] . Uh, one of the things we look at is

[48:44] essentially whether we have to release them

[48:46] or not. Most people in

[48:48] Vermont, um, are essentially

[48:49] non-discretionary release because

[48:51] most people under

[48:53] supervision in the community are on

[48:54] probation, which may

[48:56] mean they were never

[48:57] incarcerated in the first place. Um, we

[48:59] 've expanded to house people

[49:01] on parole. We found

[49:03] that they default at a higher rate

[49:04] when they are homeless. Um, and, uh,

[49:06] especially when we consider

[49:08] some of the more serious cases like,

[49:09] uh, sex offenders and

[49:11] domestic violence, we definitely want them to be

[49:13] housed. We want to know

[49:14] where they are at night.

[49:15] Is this a condition of their

[49:17] release?

[49:17] Yes, that, that depends on the court. It

[49:20] depends on the

[49:21] parole board and it depends on the

[49:22] risk level of your early release.

[49:24] Good, because that affects how

[49:26] our ordinance is applied. So, that was

[49:28] a question. Um, my other, my other

[49:30] question is: is anyone paying

[49:33] Pathways? I assume it's the

[49:35] Vermont State Department of Correction that's supposed to

[49:37] oversee this, which isn't happening

[49:38] . And the concern is that there's also

[49:42] a park. Um, there was talk of

[49:44] Gergette Park, uh, Pine Hill Park is

[49:46] at the end of that street. Lots of traffic,

[49:49] lots of children. And then, going down

[49:53] the hill a little, there are two kindergarten

[49:55] to second grade schools there. Um, from what

[49:59] we've heard, there are a variety of

[50:01] criminals living in the house. Um,

[50:04] and it's totally inappropriate. Completely

[50:07] inappropriate. People have the right to

[50:09] go home and live in their little piece

[50:11] of heaven without these things happening. And it

[50:14] 's inappropriate. It's inappropriate for

[50:16] Pathways to be taking money from the

[50:18] state, from the state of Vermont, and

[50:19] not actually doing anything. I passed

[50:22] by there, oh, I don't know, a couple of

[50:24] weeks ago. I suppose that perhaps after

[50:26] the first time Katrina was

[50:27] here, the gates were wide open

[50:29] , there wasn't a curtain in

[50:31] sight, the grass was

[50:32] everywhere, trash everywhere, some

[50:34] kind of beat-up car in the driveway

[50:36] . We're not going to betray each other

[50:39] . If Kurt and I are in trouble, I'm not

[50:41] going to rat him out, and he's not going to rat me out

[50:42] . That's why Pathways needs to

[50:45] be there, and that needs to change

[50:47] immediately. If they're not going to close this house

[50:50] , then they need to make sure there's

[50:51] oversight and accountability,

[50:53] because this isn't right.

[50:55] Mjm.

[50:55] We agree.

[50:56] The city of Rutland, in my opinion,

[50:58] has had more than its fair share.

[51:00] We agree that there needs to be

[51:01] oversight and accountability

[51:02] for that site now.

[51:03] Thank you.

[51:04] Okay, thank you very much. OK.

[51:07] So, uh,

[51:08] sir, Mr. President,

[51:09] could you...?

[51:09] Yes, it certainly can. Yes.

[51:12] Uh, for the Pathways representative,

[51:14] going back to something you said earlier about

[51:16] if an occupant violates the terms

[51:19] of the agreement that puts them on this

[51:21] property, you said that at that point

[51:23] we can ask them to leave. What

[51:27] happens if they say no?

[51:28] They have to leave, and they have to leave.

[51:29] So, it's not a request, it's a "you're

[51:31] done."

[51:32] Um, yes, excuse me. He was speaking

[51:34] diplomatically.

[51:35] Good. No, no, that's why I asked. They are only

[51:37] on the property and have no

[51:39] tenancy rights to remain there.

[51:41] Good. That's why I asked. I just wanted to

[51:44] understand. Good. OK. Very good.

[51:47] So, we've listened to almost everyone I

[51:49] think wants to talk. I'm going to

[51:51] be polite and ask the commissioner

[51:53] if he has anything else he'd like to say

[51:55] before we conclude. I'm going to wrap this up as

[51:59] best I can here. So, I

[52:02] just want to clarify that there have been 10

[52:04] objections from that site throughout

[52:06] its existence. Uh, when there are

[52:09] violations, there are repercussions. Are they

[52:12] sufficient? Do we need to improve

[52:14] supervision? Uh, we've been

[52:17] paying extra attention, having

[52:19] additional visits from members of the

[52:21] PNP office in Rutland. But the

[52:24] idea that there are no repercussions for

[52:26] people who act

[52:28] inappropriately is not entirely accurate.

[52:30] Nor is it true that they do not

[52:33] report each other. A

[52:35] significant number of the calls during

[52:37] this time period have, in

[52:39] fact, been from residents trying,

[52:41] so to speak, to betray other

[52:42] residents. Um, and that's also a

[52:45] component. None of that is an

[52:48] excuse. I offer it only as an

[52:50] explanation and clarification. We recognize

[52:52] that there is a situation here that we

[52:54] are not seeing elsewhere and we

[52:56] are taking it seriously.

[52:58] Fine, thanks. So, I'm just going to say

[53:01] a couple of things. I want to make sure

[53:05] that, uh, you, uh, leave knowing

[53:09] how we feel. I suppose I can't

[53:12] speak for everyone on the Board of

[53:13] Council. I'll speak for myself,

[53:15] but you've already heard it from a couple of

[53:16] different people. Um, my

[53:19] firm advice would be to close that facility,

[53:22] because no matter how many people you

[53:24] bring in now to supervise, the damage

[53:27] is already done. The damage has been done in that

[53:31] neighborhood. There's no going back

[53:34] . I think he needs to reevaluate

[53:36] how he's doing things.

[53:39] Obviously in that facility,

[53:41] but also in other facilities in

[53:42] Rutland, because we don't want to see

[53:44] this happen again elsewhere. In

[53:46] larger communities, you were the

[53:48] chief in Burlington. I'm sure

[53:50] something like that must have come up at some

[53:52] point up there. There were 45,000

[53:54] people up there and a lot of

[53:57] good people, but also some bad ones and,

[53:59] um, you know, this is just, I think what

[54:02] Tom said is exactly right

[54:05] . The underlying problem is the

[54:08] revolving door and the people who end up back on

[54:10] the street. But, um, I

[54:12] want to make sure you understand from

[54:14] my point of view, and I think from several

[54:17] of us on the Board of

[54:18] Councillors, is that, um, my assumption

[54:20] is that the mayor also wants that

[54:22] facility to be closed. So.

[54:25] Um, okay. Anyone else

[54:29] quick? Alex?

[54:30] Yes, I'll be very brief. I'll be brief

[54:32] because, frankly, I'm furious. Um,

[54:34] I'd like to thank the representatives from

[54:37] DOC and Pathways for showing up today. Um,

[54:40] I'm a little discouraged and disappointed

[54:42] by the diplomacy in the speech. Um, it

[54:45] sounds like something I could read on their

[54:47] website. Um, that's not enough. What he

[54:49] 's saying isn't enough. The

[54:50] fact that you show up here

[54:52] is not enough. Hey, what he's

[54:54] doing is harming the

[54:55] neighbors. He's standing in front of the

[54:56] neighbors who have been putting up with this

[54:58] for the last 4 years and saying,

[54:59] "Hey, it's really not that bad." That

[55:00] offends me. I'm, I'm simply

[55:03] furious. I disagree with that. And

[55:05] as someone who went through a

[55:06] rehabilitation center and had

[55:08] proper supervision and was able to change his life, he

[55:10] is doing absolute harm to those

[55:12] people in that house. There is

[55:13] absolutely no chance,

[55:15] when you put someone in that kind of

[55:17] condition and environment, of them

[55:19] recovering and reintegrating into society

[55:21] . This is simply ridiculous.

[55:23] Thanks, Alex.

[55:29] Okay, the motion is to adjourn the session

[55:30] .

[55:31] That's how it will be done.

[55:32] The session is adjourned.

Rutland City Committee of the Whole Meeting - September 17, 2026 - Evergreen Avenue Discussion

Transcript