[0:02] There you go. >> All right. Good evening everyone.

[0:05] Welcome to the regular meeting of the Rland County Select Board. Today is

[0:09] September 8th and this is our regular meeting.

[0:16] We have with us I think it's Sharon's turn to start. Um selectable members

[0:22] Sharon Russell, Matt Getty, Mary Ashcro, and Kurt Hathaway. missing is excused

[0:29] absence of Joe. Leonardo is desperately trying to get his hay in before the the

[0:35] rain tomorrow. So, uh, if you would all please rise and stand for the pledge of

[0:40] » allegiance

[0:44] to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for its nation,

[0:54] liberty andice for all.

[1:01] Okay.

[1:05] So, what we're going to do is deviating a little bit from unusual

[1:11] agenda. Um, what we're going to do is some of the

[1:16] preliminaries. We're going to do the minutes. Uh, and now we're going to be

[1:20] some announcements. And then what we're going to do is go into

[1:26] executive session if the if the board agrees to hear advice from our town

[1:32] council and then we're going to come back

[1:36] and we will take up the request of habitat. So that's kind of what we're

[1:43] going to do. Then then what we also usually do is take up other folks who

[1:49] are not otherwise on the agenda. Um and we've heard that there might be someone

[1:55] coming in. Um but we haven't seen anyone yet.

[2:01] Um but the credit union is on the agenda. So we'll hear from you folks as

[2:08] well. And then we take our usual is Devon.

[2:16] Devon's on the agenda as well. Is he zooming?

[2:18] » He was going to be here. >> Okay.

[2:21] » All right. So, well, we've got things kind of mapped out, but subject to

[2:25] change. Um, okay. Minutes of the select board meeting for August 25th.

[2:42] Move to approve. >> Motion one to approve

[2:46] » and seconded. Any additions, corrections, deletions.

[2:53] » All in favor of approving the minutes, please say I.

[2:57] » I. >> I. Motion carries for 01 extensions.

[3:02] I'm circulating.

[3:10] All right. Next, approval of the orders. They're

[3:15] over here. I think all four of us have signed. Is there a motion?

[3:20] » Second. >> Motion's been made and seconded to

[3:22] approve the orders. Any discussion, additions, deletions? I think we

[3:28] understand the police fire

[3:33] um communications bill. So we now that we understand it um that will come out

[3:39] of depreciation if we approve the orders.

[3:44] If there's no further discussion, all in favor of approving the orders, please

[3:48] say I. I. >> I. Motion carries 40

[3:53] with one absent. Are there any board member announcements?

[4:02] Update from the select board chair. Just a reminder, thank you. That the circle

[4:07] articles are due on the 15th.

[4:13] So, please do department heads and others who are interested in getting

[4:17] information. It's just a week away. um

[4:22] getting information published about what might be coming up. Uh like oh, I don't

[4:27] know, snowplow policy or

[4:31] » replacing replacing mailboxes, that kind of thing. This would be a good time to,

[4:38] you know, put that in. Um if there's And Carrie, I want to chat with you

[4:44] about maybe doing a joint article together. You don't have to, but I

[4:50] thought maybe if we kind of >> Yeah, did submit one already, but

[4:54] » Oh, good. Good for you. Okay. Well, if you have

[4:57] » Yeah. Okay. >> All right. Very good. It would be about

[5:02] the tax bills. >> Is that what you wrote about?

[5:08] » Is that what you wrote about? Okay. All right. Let's talk then. Okay.

[5:15] » All right. Are there any questions from the floor or public comments other than

[5:22] the folks who we know are here to

[5:30] anybody on Zoom who has a comment who is not otherwise on the agenda?

[5:41] » The bottom. >> Okay. Uh, Brown Heart is Kevin.

[5:46] » That's me, Mary. >> Oh, I get it. Is that you, Kevin?

[5:50] » Kevin. Yep.

[5:55] » Please. >> Yeah. Well,

[6:05] okay. Uh, could you uh Kevin Brown, town attorney, I think

[6:11] you are on. >> Yeah.

[6:14] » Yes, I'm Brown.

[6:18] » He's quiet. >> Okay,

[6:20] » you're here. >> All right. Um, so since our town

[6:26] attorney appears to be on, what we're going to do is, as outlined,

[6:32] um, go into executive session to listen to our attorney's legal counsel.

[6:39] Is there a motion? >> So move.

[6:41] » Motion's made. Is there a second? >> And seconded. Any discussion?

[6:47] All in favor of going into executive session, please say I.

[6:52] » I. Motion carries 4 zero. So now clear the room. All right.

[6:56] » Everybody still have a meeting. So >> okay, we are back on the record. It is

[7:01] 20 6. We have come out of executive session.

[7:05] Um the first item that we're going to take up is under action item A, the

[7:11] board to discuss the petition from Habitat for Humanity.

[7:17] And

[7:20] is there is there a motion or do we want to hear

[7:25] from Rebecca briefly? What do we want to do? We do have our attorney still on the

[7:29] line. He has a another meeting to go to, but he's on the line. He's not going to

[7:34] be debating as far as I'm I'm concerned. I know he has been in touch with you at

[7:38] our request. So, okay. Well, I guess we're kind of waiting to

[7:44] hear what we we've turned in a petition with the 5% signatures and our

[7:50] expectation is it'll go to ballot. So, okay. Is there based upon what we've

[7:58] discussed with our attorney and other considerations, is there a motion

[8:03] concerning that petition?

[8:13] » I think that's for based on the advice that we received

[8:19] regarding this petition, I'm going to move that we do not accept

[8:25] as drafted. Um, meaning we not be putting it on the

[8:29] ballot. >> Second.

[8:32] » Motion's been made and seconded not to accept the petition as drafted and not

[8:38] put it on the November ballot. Discussion

[8:44] » say anything, Mary, or is it just discussion? Well, let's let's start here

[8:48] and then we'll see if there are folks other folks who may want to add some

[8:53] » um one and and I think Kevin shared this

[8:58] with you as well. One major problem with what you drafted was it would um absolve

[9:06] you of taxes for this current year that we're in. and Kevin researched this and

[9:12] the case law basically says there is a separate process for that. You don't do

[9:18] it by petition. So that that is one of the reasons why um the petition is

[9:25] defective because it deals with the year that we're currently in and case law

[9:30] says you can't do that. That's one reason. Um the other is that we were

[9:36] trying to

[9:40] figure out, and I'm not sure Carrie has the answer to this, but if

[9:46] um how many ballots do we mail out, the state is responsible for mailing out the

[9:51] ballots for the general election, which is a state election.

[9:56] This would be a town election, a sidebyside town election, run at the

[10:01] same time with the same ballot clerks, but we would have a separate ballot. And

[10:06] the question has come up, do we then have to mail out that ballot to every

[10:12] voter in Rutland Town? My hunch is no, but I don't know the answer to that. I

[10:18] think my guess would be it's available when people come in to vote. If they

[10:25] have voted absentee because they got the state ballot in the mail, they would

[10:30] have to come in and vote here. And I'm not sure how that would happen. So the

[10:34] there's going to be election confusion as well. Um and the the third reason

[10:40] that we're concerned about is setting a precedent for any nonprofit organization

[10:47] who wants to ask well, you know, an abatement of taxes for the past year. So

[10:55] we we do want to we're conscious of that. We want to be careful. Um, so any

[11:01] other reasons that you can think of? >> The motion's pending.

[11:07] » Any other remarks? Yes. >> Okay. So, we very much appreciate your

[11:12] um thinking about it. Um, so yes, we did speak with your attorney and

[11:17] we have I just have six focus points I want us to remember as we move through

[11:21] the process um of what we're going to say next. Just so um you understand. So,

[11:27] we meaning Habitat when I refer to it. Um, we've been doing our best to follow

[11:31] the known process or rules and we have been sent in circles repeatedly on this.

[11:38] Um, we acknowledge that a municipality is under no obligation to assist a

[11:42] taxpayer. However, when that non-assisted that non-assistance rises

[11:48] to the level of obstruction and thereby compromises the fundamental fairness of

[11:51] the process, the matter does warrant scrutiny. and we do ask that that be

[11:56] given some consideration in the future. Um, we believe that our tax exemption

[12:01] was denied erroneously on the mistaken claim that our building is not used

[12:04] primarily for our mission. We're not we're just stating that again. So, our

[12:08] point of view and we would like to mention that if we had just moved over

[12:12] the border into Rutland City, um, we would not be having this issue. And we

[12:17] wanted to reference uh there's many nonprofits in Rutland City, but one

[12:21] particularly the Open Door Mission, which is so closely related to what we

[12:25] do. Um as far as homeing, it is homelessness, it's not home ownership,

[12:32] but they do run a thrift store to support their mission. Um, there's

[12:36] Brock, there's Newstory, there's the Parent Child Center, there's the Rutland

[12:40] Community Covered, there's Rutland Regional Medical Center, just to name a

[12:43] few of the nonprofits who are diligently filling the service gaps in our

[12:47] communities for the most vulnerable and being recognized and supported for the

[12:51] work they are doing. And that includes having their exemption from property

[12:54] taxes, um, including municipal and education

[12:58] recognized. And this allows their donor dollars to go to their missions. We just

[13:03] want to remind everyone that Habitat for Humanity of Rutland County is the only

[13:06] builder of affordable housing for home ownership. Nobody else does what we do.

[13:12] Just Habitat. We have submitted a petition with the required signatures

[13:16] and expect um along with the 5% of our voters expect it to be taken to ballot.

[13:22] And our donors have entrusted us with their money to build affordable housing,

[13:26] not to fund lawyers arguing over gray area in the statute. So here's what

[13:30] we're proposing. We come up with a proposal

[13:34] and we hope that this might help. >> Why don't you just read it out loud so

[13:37] everybody want this though for you? >> Go ahead with that.

[13:40] » Okay. >> Dear members of the Rutland Oh, you want

[13:43] to read this cuz it's from you. >> Sure.

[13:44] » There you go. Okay. >> So, um

[13:47] » could you identify yourself? >> So, my name is Eric. The last name is

[13:50] Salsa. I'm the chair of the Habitat for Humanity Rutland County. So throughout

[13:55] this and um our dear members of the Rutland Town Select Board throughout

[13:59] this entire process from the original denial letter of our tax exempt status

[14:04] from property taxes by the listister then the BCA and finally this board the

[14:10] message from Rutland Town has been Habitat must go to the voters. We have

[14:15] diligently collected and submitted the necessary signatures to support going to

[14:20] the ballot. It is our understanding that the town's

[14:23] attorney, Kevin Brown, is now recommending that this board deny our

[14:27] submitted petition based on the position, quote, "the voters do not have

[14:31] the power to override the listers once the grand list is set," unquote. It is

[14:38] also our understanding that other than the wording quote commencing with the

[14:43] 2026 to 2027 year quote unquote there is no other stated issue with our petition.

[14:51] We believe we believe the petition language satisfies the statutory intent

[14:56] of title 32 section 384 uh 3840 and 17 VSA section 2643A

[15:07] and that there is a statutory authority to exempt real and personal property in

[15:13] the tax year the vote is taken. That said, in a spirit of collaboration

[15:18] and putting the needs of our community first, we are willing to concede this

[15:22] point. If the select board objects to the specific reference quote commencing

[15:28] with the 2026 2027 tax year, we will agree to allow the select board to

[15:33] exercise its authority to amend the final article text for the town warning

[15:39] to read quote commencing with the 2027 to 2028 tax year while honoring the

[15:47] valid signatures of the voters. We would note that even if the petition language

[15:52] isn't perfect on this narrow point, a disagreement over the applicable tax

[15:57] year is not enough to invalidate an otherwise valid petition. Uh the core

[16:02] intent and statutory basis remain sound and the signatures collected reflect

[16:07] that intent. Ultimately, we urge the select board to

[16:11] use common sense and to put the good of the community ahead of this legal

[16:15] disagreement. The voter's voice should be allowed to be heard and that's

[16:19] sincerely Eric Sulsa. Would >> you like to copy now?

[16:23] » Um yeah, we can I wanted it read and for Okay.

[16:28] So at this point, what's

[16:33] what's on the table is to deny the as written petition. Okay. Is there

[16:42] any >> is there can I just ask a question?

[16:46] » You can ask a question. >> Okay. It from what we have learned is

[16:51] the select board does have the authority to change the language of the petition.

[17:00] Are you aware of that? I know that we have the authority to put

[17:07] our own um items on the ballot for consideration

[17:12] by voters. I know we have that authority >> because it's it's honestly super

[17:18] frustrating that you've had this petition for a long time and at the last

[17:24] minute have said we are now finding it um

[17:28] » unable to we have not had your petition in and filed with us.

[17:34] » So um pardon me sorry I'm just to clarify

[17:38] what Eric's referring to if I may. So, back at the meeting on in July 14th, um

[17:44] when we submitted the copy of our petition to you guys, you asked us to

[17:48] the question. >> Um then we met again on July 28th um to

[17:53] ask whether or not you guys would put it on this select board would put it on the

[17:57] um ballot without the signatures because we were trying to get you to be able to

[18:02] have the state print the ballots for you so there wouldn't be a question that

[18:05] you're now bringing up about how do you do it.

[18:08] » Okay. So when you guys said no and um one of the reasons that um Mr. Getty had

[18:14] brought up was that our lawyer didn't write this question. We don't even know

[18:18] if it's legal. >> So at that point there was a question in

[18:21] front of the select board. Someone had a question that it may not be 100% but you

[18:26] had the question. I went back and actually did my due diligence to find if

[18:30] the language we were giving you was legal and based on our legal advice

[18:34] given to us it was. So, what we're trying to say is our legal advice can

[18:40] say this, your legal advice can say that. What we're asking for is from day

[18:46] one when the listister put on the denial letter,

[18:53] um, hold on. We had it right here that we were denied our exemption. Okay.

[19:01] unless or until the town voters vote to exempt the property from property

[19:06] payment of property tax. So from that day on March 11th, we have been doing

[19:10] everything we can get the voters's voice heard. We are finally there and we are

[19:17] willing to compromise with the town. Hey 2026 and 27, which

[19:24] let me tell you, it's a hard hit for Habitat. It's over $10,000.

[19:30] It's payroll money. It's building money. It's money to

[19:34] » We're taxpayers, too. We understand about the hit.

[19:38] » We're We're trying to be good stewards of what the donors have trusted us with.

[19:43] We are offering a compromise at this moment. You have 5% of your voters have

[19:48] agreed to have at least the voters hear on it how they want to vote. If we

[19:54] change the date to 2728, it would be an easy solution moving

[20:00] forward. Let the voters vote. It's all we're asking tonight.

[20:06] » Um Barry, some clarification maybe. >> I called the election division. Yeah.

[20:12] » And they said if you're going to change a petition, you need to have a brand new

[20:17] petition with signatures. >> With brand new signatures signatures.

[20:23] » Yes. Mary, it's Kevin.

[20:28] » All right. Um,

[20:31] » Mary, you can you can The law is, as I understand it, uh,

[20:38] a board can make u

[20:43] nonsubstantive changes to a petition, but it can't change it can't make a

[20:48] substantive change to a petition that's filed. And changing the year of

[20:54] commencement in my view would be substantive

[20:58] » which makes sense because substantive change people are signing one thing and

[21:03] then it becomes something else. So I think Carrie and I are saying the same

[21:06] thing. >> Okay.

[21:09] » And Lost is here. Lawson Stevens I do want to make one comment and that is the

[21:15] board of civil authority did not vote on this. I was here I think Lawson is here

[21:21] too. Well, we were here.

[21:24] » The petition was withdrawn by you folks. >> That's because you did not

[21:30] » We did not vote on it. >> You did not vote on it. The BCA refused

[21:35] to take it up. Several comments were made. Mr. Giles, Mr. Chaffy

[21:42] said, "Why is this not going to the voter?"

[21:46] Um he said because we're supposed to be in

[21:50] front of the BCA. They said we're not going to take it up.

[21:53] » And that's when my attorney did turn to me and say the town asked you to go to

[21:58] the voter. Go to the voter. And so that's what we

[22:01] decided called a special meeting for it. So we did take it up. We did have it

[22:06] before us. We were debating it with you and then you withdrew the request. So, I

[22:12] don't want >> That's

[22:15] mayor, I have to say that's a point I happen to disagree on.

[22:18] » I I very much disagree with your characterization of a denial by the BCA.

[22:22] » No, they didn't deny it. >> You said you wouldn't take it up.

[22:24] » They wouldn't take it up and take an actual vote. If they had denied us,

[22:28] » we could have went to superior court, >> but you had your lawyer here giving you

[22:32] advice, and we are not in the position of giving legal advice. So, I I know,

[22:38] you know, it's frustrating for us, too. You've got two folks sitting here in a

[22:44] club that donated a very large chunk of money to Habitat and it's not

[22:51] » any we are trying to do >> a difficult balancing test here

[22:58] » to serve our constituents the town and that's

[23:03] we've we've got to do that as best we can. I'm just wondering if the the date

[23:08] of substantive that now you that we're defining the change of a date. We're

[23:14] looking at a 10-year exemption. >> Mhm.

[23:17] » And Habitat is willing to come to the table and say fine, we're not going to

[23:22] go for 26 27 make it 2728. >> Okay.

[23:27] » Then >> it's it this is essentially the same

[23:30] question. We we can't make that change of life for we're opening up the town to

[23:35] get sued. We just can't do it. If somebody happens to be a Habitat hater,

[23:41] this hit the paper, they can come back to the town because we made a change on

[23:46] a petition and put it to a ballot. >> I'd like to say

[23:50] » we just can't do it. I mean, there's a process and a process has to be done.

[23:54] And we I mean I'm going to vote for you guys when it's on the ballot, but it has

[23:59] to get there. It has to get there the right way. Unfortunately, it didn't

[24:03] this.

[24:07] » Yes. I'd like to clarify something. The open door mission went through this

[24:13] whole process. They didn't just hand it to us. So, I don't want the folks out

[24:18] there because you brought the mission up to think that we were gifted it. We had

[24:24] to go through the petitions and everything else before the open door

[24:29] mission could open up. The open door mission

[24:34] cost the taxpayers that much. The only way we get to

[24:40] operate is that thrift store and nothing else. So I don't want people thinking

[24:47] that it's different than it is. It is not. And I'm offended. Are you bringing

[24:53] it up with the mission first? Because I'm sitting here because I I um ran the

[25:00] mission for almost 40 years. I step away from

[25:08] um things like this if it's going to make a

[25:12] difference because I I ran the mission and I can separate that and I do

[25:20] separate that. We had the advice of our attorney. I'm going to follow the advice

[25:25] of the attorney. And I believe in in what you do,

[25:31] but you have to understand if we make an exception for you,

[25:38] we've put oursel in a in a pretty tough spot for anybody else that comes in. So

[25:46] So Sharon, I appreciate that. No offense was intended. actions. We brought up the

[25:50] open door mission because we are

[25:56] we are extremely grateful for the path they've already made for the rest of the

[26:01] nonprofits. And after speaking to the current executive director and

[26:06] understanding the process you guys had to go through, which is why we've

[26:09] embraced the fact of going to the voters, which is why we're here, trying

[26:13] to make sure that the work that we've done for the last 2 and 1/2 months of

[26:18] getting all these signatures and trying to make sure we had it done right and

[26:22] asking attorneys and get it's just been it's been a journey to finally be here.

[26:28] And because there's a date and a question as to whether or not you can

[26:32] exempt it, the advice on the our side is there's

[26:37] precedent to be able to go back and do it. The advice on your side there isn't.

[26:43] And we could spend months and tons of donor money fighting.

[26:47] » Where is your attorney? >> They don't have to bring their attorney.

[26:52] So we don't have it. But what I'm just saying is is what we're just hoping is

[26:55] that we can get the voters's voice heard and that's

[27:00] all we wanted to do and so thank you for hearing us tonight.

[27:04] » We have Lost wanted to be heard and Marie

[27:09] Fagnet's got her hand raised on Zoom so

[27:15] » you don't have to say anything. >> Uh Lawson Steven I'm a Rutland town. My

[27:20] wife and I are retired and uh uh this property not being on the grand

[27:28] list, we're not going to feel that, you know, in in our taxes. It's not it's not

[27:33] that big a pinch. It sounds to me like uh

[27:37] uh well, I've always thought of uh Rutland

[27:41] Town as as a a good citizen of Vermont. And um

[27:47] you know, they're uh they're not competing with the private sector

[27:53] because nobody's building starter homes because there's no money in it. And uh

[27:58] with the way the school taxes are uh uh addition to the grand list anywhere is a

[28:05] little bit of a addition to the grand list everywhere.

[28:09] Um and uh it it sounds to me like in the short term uh there's some uh things to

[28:17] be ironed out, but in the long term I I expect that um um you know

[28:26] you you can look at a municipality as a notfor-profit uh corporate citizen of

[28:31] the state and uh uh and I I think uh we all want the same things.

[28:37] » Thank you. Marie Bent. >> Uh good evening. Thank you. Um I just

[28:44] wanted to uh let the voters know and and everyone

[28:49] know that many of the uh entities that Miss Stevens is talking about that being

[28:56] not that have all the exemptions, many of them are statuto statutory

[29:02] exemptions. They are statutory in place. So it means they're automatically exempt

[29:08] from the voter roles and Habitat is not is not one of gets statutory. The

[29:15] hospital statutory, your churches are many of the uh Rutland West and

[29:21] everything. They get a different type of exemption, but it's all built into the

[29:25] statute. Habitat has acknowledged in front of the legislature that they are

[29:29] not entitled to an exemption that they have to go community by community to

[29:34] seek it. When denied the initial exemption, Miss Stevens was given in

[29:40] hand literature for from the Secretary of State's office. This is back when

[29:47] this first happened on how to go for a vote a vote in March

[29:52] that was given to her at the July 14th meeting while I sat right next to her. I

[30:00] alerted them at that time that this was a probably invalid ballot item. We've

[30:08] had over a month and a half to cure that ballot item and it was chosen not to do

[30:12] that. And it's not just me. My understanding is the city of Rutland

[30:17] attorney has also told them that the week prior to my sitting there. So this

[30:21] is not news that the 2627 ballot item is invalid for purposes of getting on the

[30:27] vote. So it is I do find it somewhat offensive as well to be characterized as

[30:36] the town has given them the runaround when it's been known and it's been going

[30:42] lock step in both the city and the town that these ballot items are incorrect.

[30:49] So if it's for the March ballot, which was the discussion in the beginning when

[30:55] it is the townwide VA ballot and no additional expense to taxpayers to have

[31:01] a separate ballot prepared. So I just wanted those clarifications that the

[31:05] town knows that they have to go through these because there's no statutory

[31:10] exemption for them. >> Okay. Thank you, Marie.

[31:13] » Thank you. >> All right. So the select board, let me

[31:18] just say one thing very briefly because we really do need to

[31:26] » RL city situation and Rland town situation are completely different.

[31:33] We are in discussion with Rland City regarding vacant land and where we build

[31:37] has nothing to do with ownership of a building or being operated for Habitat

[31:41] for Humanity. and we've always contested the part that we are statutoily allowed

[31:47] under 3840. So that's what we've always been arguing and so there is definitely

[31:53] a disagreeing one. >> Okay. Um the matter before the select

[31:59] board is and is Matt's motion to reject the petition that was filed and not to

[32:06] put it on the November ballot. This is not this is a straight the petition as

[32:12] it was filed and that includes the language about this current tax year.

[32:17] Are you ready for that question?

[32:21] All in favor of Matt's motion to deny, please say I.

[32:27] » I I I will vote I as well. So, um the petition is denied to be put on the

[32:34] ballot as it is written. Is there any other motion that the select word wishes

[32:40] to make on this matter?

[32:49] Any other motion?

[32:57] Okay, no other motion. So that concludes our deliberation of this. Thank you for

[33:02] coming in.

[33:07] Okay. Um, what have we got?

[33:13] Devon Ner. >> Oh, I'm off.

[33:17] » We're We're going in as best we can in order. We're leaving our department

[33:21] heads. >> Um, so

[33:24] » I'll try to make it quick. >> Next will be credit union. Okay. So,

[33:32] » hey, good to see how Joe's not here. Thought it would be a full board, but

[33:35] we'll make do. >> Thanks for having me back. So, I'm here

[33:39] to talk about a few different things. Um, first and foremost, uh, capital

[33:45] improvement planning. Uh so I I hold a early town managers and administrators

[33:51] lunchon at the RPC and we discuss a various number of topics that are

[33:56] relevant to grant opportunities or new legislation.

[34:01] Municipal planning grants were just announced for this upcoming fiscal year.

[34:05] They the application opens in October and is not due until December. So we're

[34:10] trying to get after this early. And one thing that we're really promoting this

[34:14] year above previous years is capital planning. You know, with so many

[34:19] municipal budgets really shoestringed by the education fund, we think it's really

[34:25] important that taking more ownership of that budget through future forecasting

[34:31] through a capital plan really benefit towns of all sizes, but especially a

[34:36] town like Rutland Town that is sort of that midsize where you have quite a few

[34:42] growing facilities and assets on your um sort of municipal asset. inventory. Now,

[34:49] whether it's roads, a new dump truck, a new fire station, planning for those

[34:56] future expenditures is really challenging. So what a capital

[34:59] improvement plan can do is set up a formalized structure in which you

[35:04] provide inputs into a formula and that formula will help you depreciate assets,

[35:12] identify funding sources and be able to look out that five or 10 years on a

[35:17] longer horizon and try to spread the costs out so the taxpayers don't feel

[35:23] that really abrupt burden of a new unplanned capital expenditure.

[35:28] We've seen a lot of success with capital planning in other communities in the

[35:33] region, most notably Rutland City adopted their first ever capital

[35:37] improvement plan last year. And they're utilizing, similar to you guys, um their

[35:42] their primary funding source for their CIP is their 1% option tax. Now, I know

[35:48] yours goes towards buying down the grand list, but also some capital projects as

[35:54] well. Is that correct? Um

[35:57] » yeah, >> sometimes we have tapped it. But but let

[36:00] me ask you this. >> Actually,

[36:02] » we have depreciation funds and we have each department has done a five-year

[36:08] plan. >> Yep.

[36:10] » Why aren't the depreciation funds and the five-year plans sufficient? Why do

[36:15] we need a capital plan? >> Yeah. So this can be a little bit more

[36:20] comprehensive than that and also use escalation factors and other sort of

[36:25] like formulaic elements that can be a bit more accurate and dynamic than a

[36:30] simple depreciation plan. That's great that you have that. That is more than

[36:35] most do. So that's awesome because it shows a level of accountability and

[36:39] proactivity that is as you know super important when setting the municipal

[36:43] budget. So, um, how I like to think about it is instead

[36:48] of right now having sort of discrete,

[36:53] um, depreciation funds that are sort of departmentalized and then collated into

[36:58] one sort of organizing budgetary sort of item. This can do that a little bit more

[37:05] comprehensively. Um, and also as the town continues to grow, which has shown

[37:11] a pretty strong growth pattern overall, both in population and in your municipal

[37:16] assets, it can adjust with that um growth over time. So, it's it doesn't

[37:24] have to be for everybody. You know, I wanted to make the pitch cuz, you know,

[37:26] it seemed like you would be a good fit and also it definitely piqued uh Bill's

[37:32] interest a little bit. So, he thought it'd be a good for me to come here and

[37:36] sort of relay it to you all. Um, >> can we use the funds

[37:42] to study whether we should have a capital plan as opposed to what we have

[37:47] now, the depreciation accounts and one um spillover capital fund.

[37:53] » You know, I think there would be no doubt that typically how this goes is,

[37:58] you know, you're awarded the funds. This is a 10% match program. So the max is 30

[38:05] 35,000. So you'd be looking at $3,000 about usually when a consultant is

[38:11] onboarded to design a capital plan. That's exactly what they would do. First

[38:16] step would be what are you currently doing? Assess whether that really just

[38:19] need to be a little bit bolstered and it's good or whether it really needs to

[38:23] be overhauled into something more proprietary or formalized by the

[38:28] consultant. But the idea is once you set up it can be completely managed by the

[38:33] municipality moving forward. You wouldn't need to rely on consulting

[38:37] moving forward to update that capital improvement plan. The other benefit fit

[38:42] that I've seen and it's here's a planner being a planner but sometimes the

[38:47] development of the thing is just as important as the thing. So in this case,

[38:52] if the entire select board and the planning commission, the town

[38:55] administrator are all part of the development, you have a much stronger

[38:59] understanding of that whole process and your future liabilities than you would

[39:05] if you're just handed a simple depreciation report annually. So, you

[39:10] know, that's that's what I would say to any planning effort. So, there's a

[39:15] little disclaimer there, but I do think that is one of the benefits as well.

[39:20] Um, and oh, first question. We run into this

[39:25] with the townwide reappraisal. Are we going to run short of consultants doing

[39:31] these so that we're standing in line for years to get a

[39:36] » Well, that wouldn't be possible because the grant terms would not allow it.

[39:39] However, you know, this space there are a lot of consulting firms operating. You

[39:45] know, they might not all be Vermont based and maybe that's a good thing. You

[39:48] know, I know Rutland City, I think, worked with a firm in Rochester, New

[39:52] York. Um, but as of right now, no, I don't think the pinch is quite as

[39:56] extreme as a full statewide reappraisal. Yeah. And I'm happy to share some

[40:01] examples if you guys feel like there's a little bit more context you need. Um,

[40:07] » you know, and I for for me, I am just trying to spread this word as as many

[40:12] towns in this sort of tier that you guys occupy as possible. Um because I do

[40:18] think more and more towns are trying to engage in this type of financial

[40:22] planning >> and if we did it timing for is it for

[40:28] next year's budget that begins July 1st and is approved by the voters on in

[40:33] March or >> in terms of your cash match?

[40:37] » Yeah, that and what's the when do we have to have this done and if we get the

[40:42] grant set up? Yeah. So the awards would likely happen at the beginning of 27.

[40:48] Okay. >> So you would need funds available then.

[40:50] It is a reimbursement program. So you would be, you know, paying the

[40:55] consultant directly and seeking reimbursement minus the 10%. There's

[40:58] typically a two-year horizon on these grants. There's always opportunity for

[41:03] an extension. So you know, I know you have a we're going to start working with

[41:06] you or we just started on a town plan update. Just finished your subdivision

[41:11] rags. I'm going to throw another thing at you here in a minute. So, I

[41:14] understand it needs to fit into your schedule and if this is more of a next

[41:18] year, I'll come back next year, you know, but um it felt like the

[41:24] conversation and the timing is right given the context of sort of where the

[41:30] town is at and where the region is at as a whole.

[41:33] » And would you be working with our planning commission on this? I mean

[41:37] ideally yes because they have to this needs to connect to the plan and future

[41:42] planning. Um so yeah I would like to see this ideally be a joint committee of the

[41:50] whole sort of select board and planning commission along with Bill and his team

[41:56] um on the ground. So yeah. Okay, those are my questions folks.

[42:04] Are there select order? So >> what are the sort of outputs in this

[42:08] plan if consultants are seeing like kind of like well here's all the stuff you

[42:12] here's your wish list that you said you wanted to do.

[42:16] So if we do it on this timeline theoretically

[42:20] payments would look like this with a whole bunch of assumptions about

[42:24] borrowing interest rates and all that. codes.

[42:26] » Yeah, I mean to an extent it will be essentially a a plugandplay spreadsheet

[42:33] at the end. I think the piece that is super important is those inputs really

[42:38] need need to be dictated by the locality and be realistic and pragmatic versus

[42:43] like oh you know we want a a Rutland town tank for some reason. Let's put

[42:48] that on there. You know this is really I think there will be some grounding by

[42:52] the consultant that way but the output will be a dynamic

[42:56] formula that allows you guys to add any items over time and then understand what

[43:03] those costs will be down the road and get things continue. I know they're

[43:08] currently on a cycle but sort of enshrine that in the process that they

[43:13] remain. So if that makes sense.

[43:18] questions. >> I'd like to see see one if there's a

[43:23] town. >> Yeah, I'll send one to Bill to share

[43:24] around. >> Be good. Yeah.

[43:26] » Um would we go through the same process as adopting the town plan that we would

[43:31] to adopt? >> Yeah. So, there's basically like two

[43:36] types of CIPs in Vermont. there is a sort of charterbased formalized CIP or

[43:43] there's like a CIP like that doesn't get to that level of adoption.

[43:48] Ideally, if you're tying it to some structured financing source or funding

[43:53] source like a 1% option, you might take that next step. But again, I think this

[43:58] is part of that process of like what is the right fit for Rutland Town right

[44:02] now, you know? >> So, yeah, you guys can mold it over.

[44:07] I'll send you some stuff. Think about it.

[44:09] » Yeah. >> Either way, you know, no no preference

[44:12] on my spot. Obviously, >> we start the application what October

[44:17] and it's due in >> December. I'm looking at Bill because

[44:21] guess who's going to >> have a team. That's that's news to me.

[44:27] » Yeah. Well, >> and we you know, we help all the towns

[44:31] write these, so that's not a not a big deal either. So, two other quick things.

[44:36] I know you have a pretty packed agenda here.

[44:39] Um, I got to talk about the Z-Word. Kurt, plug your ears.

[44:44] » Um, so, you know, we have thankfully adopted the 2026 Rutland Regional Plan.

[44:51] So, that was a huge feat. It has been >> a lot of workfully done.

[44:56] » Thank you. It has been approved now by both state bodies. So, it is fully in

[45:00] effect. That means we have seven communities right now in the region that

[45:05] are um uh have tier 1B status which is they have an exemption from act 250 of

[45:13] 50 units or less on 10 acres or less and that can be mixed use if it's

[45:17] predominantly housing. So that's across the region. We're excited to see how

[45:21] that plays out. We know developers have been waiting for this opportunity. So

[45:26] that is exciting. Now, when I came to you all in I think it was 2024,

[45:32] right after act 21 was just enacted into law, you know, we knew nothing. You

[45:39] know, I really was trying to get in front of as many towns as I could to

[45:42] say, "Hey, if you're missing this thing, consider doing it now cuz it's going to

[45:46] be a pinch." And it was. We had several towns adopt subdivision rags a few

[45:51] months before we adopted the plan. What we've learned over time is that

[45:56] what was quite a narrow opportunity for Rutland Town at the time based around

[46:03] one small historic village center in center Rutland now looks like the

[46:09] opportunity could likely be expanded to add on and this is would be some

[46:16] precedent but it's really interesting and curious opportunity add on to the

[46:21] plan growth area where utility ilities connect directly to Rutland City because

[46:24] Rutland City right now, the entirety of Rutland City essentially minus Pinehill

[46:29] Park and a few pockets is all eligible for act 27 act 250 exemption if and when

[46:36] they get their tier 1A exemption which is likely they just had their first

[46:39] hearing. So what I would like to relay to you all is if

[46:46] this is of interest really trying to go all in on further

[46:53] development specifically housing this is one pathway forward that if we

[47:00] investigate what zoning could unlock for you and again I'd love to have some

[47:05] conversations with you all about what zoning is or isn't right and about It's

[47:10] more about protections than penalties, right, for land owners and their

[47:16] property. But even so, you know, the state's sort of zoning prowess these

[47:22] days is less is more, right? And promote development and growth and don't

[47:27] prohibit it. That is the one missing element for you guys. if you wanted to

[47:32] pursue some of these exemptions that exist now. To do that, it would require

[47:38] us to sort of have that conversation and dive into it. I think this would be a

[47:43] perfect discussion to follow a town plan update. So many times when I talk to

[47:48] towns, they're writing the zoning and then the planning. The planning should

[47:51] always come first, right? To enact the plan, you need the regulatory tool,

[47:55] which is zoning. So, let's do this town plan. We're gonna help you through that.

[48:01] Barbara's got a good plan. I think Sean and Will are helping her on that that

[48:06] town plan update. >> Yeah, I I I think

[48:11] Will is going. Yeah. Yeah. Um do >> But does he have a lot on his plate

[48:17] because we can't seem to schedule meetings with him and the planning

[48:20] commission. So, yeah, they're trying to um complete a couple town plans that are

[48:27] at the very end of the process with hopes of kicking yours off in

[48:31] Octoberish, >> okay?

[48:33] » November at the at the latest. Um, but we have a plan to jump into it and get

[48:39] it done well before your expiration date.

[48:43] » Um, >> and can I mean I think there's a few

[48:47] other things. We're close on the subdivision bylaws. Can we get the

[48:51] commission's help on making sure, you know, putting that in place and whatever

[48:57] we need to do there >> for the adoption?

[48:59] » Um, I think the adoption is pretty much underway, but

[49:02] » yeah, we're just waiting up the sign at this point.

[49:05] » Okay. >> Yeah. So, if you you're through

[49:06] adoption, you're >> Yeah, we're done.

[49:08] » You're done. Okay. >> Yeah. All right.

[49:10] » Yeah. >> And you've got all the forms you need.

[49:13] » All right. >> Yeah. Bill, you can always just reach

[49:15] out if there are questions, but I think Bill's pretty much an expert by this

[49:20] point. Now, >> the only one thing only left to touch

[49:23] what's on the night is the fees on it. That's it.

[49:27] » Yeah. Okay. >> So, I I was here one to just relay that

[49:31] message that there are >> greater opportunities than what were

[49:35] first understood. Can >> you give us an example of like where and

[49:40] what? >> Yeah. So right now, wherever you connect

[49:43] to utilities in Rutland City, so primarily Route 7 north, Route 7 South,

[49:48] um >> you say we connect, you know,

[49:50] theoretically could connect like if new development

[49:54] » well in some cases you you're already connected

[49:56] » already some places. >> Yeah.

[49:58] » But does it include >> places that could connect? So that is

[50:04] sort of out there in the planning sphere right now about if it's in your town

[50:10] plan and you have some plans to expand sewer and water then that is a

[50:15] potentially legitimate thing to do. In your case if it's more of hey the main

[50:21] goes through North Main Street and there's a development in the back 40

[50:25] that's pretty automatic because that is an easy connection. That's a tea off.

[50:29] It's not like an entirely new water mane. So, there is a difference between

[50:34] those two. You know, I can share with you and you guys can go on our website

[50:40] to see how much of Rutland City has been designated as planned growth area and

[50:46] you can just imagine sort of teeing off of that on the ends that are most

[50:51] developed. So, you know, I think to your point, Matt, I think um for Rutland

[50:58] Town, like Rutland City is almost entirely infill development potential.

[51:02] You know, it's completely built out. You guys kind of have both. You have a lot

[51:06] of infill potential with sort of like older underutilized parcels, but also

[51:11] some expansion as well, especially along those sort of north south corridors. So

[51:19] just need to I need to insert this brain worm now and then we can return back to

[51:24] it later. >> Well, and

[51:28] the commission will be looking again at it as they're doing the plan.

[51:33] » Exactly. Yeah. >> Yeah. And ideally, you know, how we love

[51:36] to see these things go is, you know, there's a robust public engagement

[51:40] process during the town plan >> and this could be included potentially

[51:45] as a recommendation or action item in the town plan and then that that folds

[51:50] right into a zoning development process. Um, you know, and developing that

[51:56] zoning, we can get you guys grants. We can assist with that. You know, that's

[52:00] not not an issue. Yeah.

[52:04] » Yeah. Last and final thing, Chip. So, Joe's not here at the time. He really

[52:09] wanted me to come back and talk a little bit about CHIP. I'm happy to return

[52:12] again, but I'll just share with you, you know, the community housing investment

[52:17] program is 200 million a year over the next 10 years. So, the clock has

[52:22] started. We're already over a year into this. So, there are a few projects that

[52:28] sound like they're percolating in town. The biggest aspect to just keep in your

[52:35] minds and know moving forward is this is intended to

[52:41] use a tax increment to pay down a bond on a public utility or infrastructure

[52:47] project that directly supports the development. And we we use a but for

[52:52] test. The development wouldn't happen but for this public investment. So, how

[52:57] this works is you get a public investment upgrade essentially at no

[53:01] cost because the increment of the development's taxes will pay down that

[53:06] bond over that bond life lifespan. So, if it's about bringing utilities, what

[53:12] we're trying to do is get towns to really be bold and think outside the

[53:16] box. If you guys are already considering, hey, we want to extend

[53:20] water to homes on McKinley or further down on um Post Road. Is this an

[53:28] opportunity through de supporting this development where you can get something

[53:32] out of expanding utilities at essentially no cost? So, that is

[53:36] something to sort of like consider. I know you guys have your list here and

[53:42] you know water fire districts are a constant conversation. So that I think

[53:49] is important to note and also you know whether these uh specific

[53:56] development projects I met with one of them last Friday

[54:01] um it will really be about whether there is a municipal need or not and whether

[54:05] you guys are willing to meet that need through this program. Only one

[54:10] application's been submitted in the state. It's been in Mbury and it's a

[54:13] middle middbury college town of Mbury private public partnership for like

[54:18] 2,000 units or something crazy. Um, so we still have a lot to learn, but we're

[54:24] happy to learn those lessons for you and relay them as we go. It's a fairly long

[54:29] robust process, but I think in Rutland Town you have a unique opportunity

[54:34] potentially with a couple development projects that are sort of coming up now.

[54:41] » So saying we should be hearing about something. So

[54:45] » I think you already have. It sounds like they might have already met with

[54:50] Huh. >> Howard.

[54:51] » Yes. >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So that's one of

[54:55] one of the >> Yeah, that's a potential perfect

[54:58] candidate for it. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. So housing on

[55:02] post road um in a great lot. So um how we envision this is VLCT sort of

[55:10] developing the primary resources now and have you know a set of office hours open

[55:15] for towns to you know understand the process better. There's webinar series

[55:20] that are happening, but we can really be the technical advisor and assistant as

[55:26] you work through the process. Have you have not done this yet, but

[55:31] we're willing to sort of go through it together

[55:34] » as most everybody else. >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's that's

[55:38] all I've got. Thank you guys for the time. I appreciate it. It's good to see

[55:41] you all. >> Thank you.

[55:42] » Yeah. Absolutely. >> Questions before we let him go.

[55:47] You did use the Z word and you didn't throw anything at me.

[55:52] » I will. I will later. >> Hopefully it's a meeting.

[55:57] » Yeah.

[56:01] » Thanks, guys. Good to see you.

[56:07] » Um, we are down to

[56:15] » the posters. if you'd like to take one and pass it

[56:20] down.

[56:28] » Ask you all to identify yourselves. >> Yeah, I can I can start. Um, my name is

[56:32] Andrea Amidan. I'm a project engineer with wetlands and I'm here on behalf of

[56:38] the Vermont Federal Credit Union. I'll let Nick go.

[56:41] » Yeah. Hi everyone. I'm Nick Galerani. I'm the chief operating officer for

[56:45] Vermont Federal Credit Union representing the credit union tonight.

[56:49] It's >> customer.

[56:56] » We'll get you another chair. >> Full disclosure. I hired this ring to do

[57:03] projects down on the farm now for a couple of years.

[57:09] » I know. Well, I know some of your folks. >> I figured.

[57:15] So, uh, we're here to discuss the, um, Vermont Federal Credit Union project,

[57:19] which I hope you all are at least a little familiar with. Um, I would like

[57:24] Nick to just talk a little bit about Vermont Federal Credit Union, um, and

[57:28] what they their operation and their current property in Rutland and all

[57:33] that. >> Yeah.

[57:34] » Yeah. Thank you for your time this evening. Uh Vermont Federal has been

[57:37] operating for about over 70 years here in Vermont, serving Vermonters

[57:42] throughout the state. Uh we currently have over 60,000 members, about 1.2

[57:47] billion in assets. Here in Rutland County, we have almost 6,000 members

[57:51] that we're serving today. We have one branch location uh located at 2 South

[57:56] Main Street in Rutland City. Um that's through a recent merger with the Credit

[58:01] Union of Vermont. Um, and we're very excited about the opportunity to expand

[58:05] our presence to make a difference in the lives of even more people here in

[58:11] Rutland. Uh, and give back to the community. We are a a organization that

[58:16] believes in Vermont and Vermonters. Uh, and as such, we are trying to expand our

[58:22] reach and and give back to all of our Vermont communities that we all love and

[58:26] call home. Is that the building right at the intersection of Orange and Seven?

[58:32] The stop right there. >> It is. Yeah. Just past that

[58:35] intersection. The the next inter intersection there. Yeah. South.

[58:39] » Okay. All right. >> Yes.

[58:40] » West Street. >> West Street.

[58:43] » Mhm. >> Homes for your old people.

[58:45] » Yeah. I was just going to say that old.

[58:52] » So, yes. Um, I'll just go right ahead to the location of this project. So this is

[58:57] uh halfacre parcel at the corner of Holiday Drive and Pop John Drive. Um

[59:04] just south of the Aspen Dental for anybody trying to locate themselves and

[59:09] just east of the old Holiday Inn, now 14 in.

[59:13] » So this halfacre parcel was subdivided um around 2008 from the Holiday Inn and

[59:19] Aspen Dental. That was all one parcel at one one point. Um, it was then purchased

[59:25] by the property owner to the south and previously permitted as the Rutland

[59:29] Commons project >> and then was sold uh just recently to

[59:34] the Vermont Federal Credit Union. So now the halfacre car was independently owned

[59:37] by the credit union >> subject to act 250.

[59:41] » It is subject to act 250. >> Yeah.

[59:43] » Yes. >> Um and not because you don't have zoning

[59:46] but because it was the Cortina in has an existing act 250 permit.

[59:50] » I wanted to clarify with you later. Um, so I guess I just want to flip back

[59:57] quickly before I walk through the site circulation. This is a onestory

[1:00:01] building. Um, and just to give you some perspective of of what the building

[1:00:06] would look like. Um, these are the architectural elevations. So if you were

[1:00:10] driving down Route 7, you would see this upper east elevation here on the top

[1:00:16] right uh, left corner, excuse me. And then as you drove down uh Holiday

[1:00:21] Drive, you would come and see um this north elevation here. And then as you

[1:00:28] worked your way around and came through the parking lot of the Cortina end

[1:00:31] behind there, you would come um along and see the drive-thru lanes here on the

[1:00:36] west elevation. And then as you pulled in to park on the southern part of the

[1:00:40] parcel, you would come out and see the south elevation. So, we can go back to

[1:00:45] those if you have any questions. But just to give you a better plan view of

[1:00:51] the circulation we're talking about, you've got I'm just going to stand up

[1:00:55] because I'm a pointer. It's the Italian and me. I can't help it. You've got

[1:00:58] Route 7 here, not pictured. And then the intersection here, um, and Diamond Mall

[1:01:03] is over here. So, this is the dead end that is Cop John Drive currently. and

[1:01:10] then Holiday Drive here which is a privatelyowned drive as you know. So the

[1:01:15] site circulation as proposed would be uh patrons would come through here if they

[1:01:21] would like to use a teller or ATM only transaction.

[1:01:26] And then for any patrons who would want to walk into the facility if they had a

[1:01:29] longer transaction, they come around Holiday Drive, come south through this

[1:01:34] uh easement that exists already with the Cortina Inn through this southwest

[1:01:39] entrance um park here and the main entrance is right here. Um so that's the

[1:01:45] site circulation and then ATM users would drive through here and and go exit

[1:01:50] out that way um on Holiday Drive. Um the site currently proposes uh 15

[1:01:56] parking spaces and there is a traffic study to support that uh usage. Um

[1:02:04] try and make sure I hit all my notes here. Uh so this two-way I just wanted

[1:02:09] to point out this two-way uh exit entrance at the at the bottom of the

[1:02:12] site just helps with less conflicts on the holiday drive entrance drive

[1:02:17] entrance which is why we um opted for this being a oneway for the ATM usage

[1:02:23] only. Um

[1:02:26] so the proposed water and sewer I can briefly talk about that as well.

[1:02:35] Our utility plan and grading plan which you also received.

[1:02:40] So the water uh service would come out perpendicularly uh to the root 7 water

[1:02:46] man as it exists. So, as Deon was talking about, it would just be a a

[1:02:50] simple T connection to the water man. >> And then the sewer would um is quite a

[1:02:55] ways away from the existing sewer. So, we would just need to run approximately

[1:03:00] 150 ft north um along across Holiday Drive um and between the Aspen Dental

[1:03:06] property and the shoulder of Pop John to a sewer manhole um just after the Aspen

[1:03:12] Dental >> in the town's right of way or do you

[1:03:16] have any easement? >> That would be through the town's right

[1:03:19] of way, which is um part of the uh excavation in the right of way permit

[1:03:24] application that we have also uh submitted for consideration. that.

[1:03:31] » So, um, as a credit union, you may imagine there's not very many wastewater

[1:03:36] flows generated by the project. So, um, it's a pretty low usage. Um, and just

[1:03:42] regarding the useful impact and the school impact there, there's no uh, you

[1:03:46] know, school age children that are generated by the project. And Penny

[1:03:50] Union has also stated that they would like to hire from within the community.

[1:03:53] there will be nobody moving to the community to um to work here and be

[1:03:57] generated from here. Um to give you a better idea of just the other pieces of

[1:04:02] the project that we're coordinating um there's other permits. Active 50 was one

[1:04:07] mentioned. So we've been working with all of the state regulators um to meet

[1:04:12] all of the different 10 criteria and get their buy in before we submit the

[1:04:17] application later this uh month. And then the other state permits that need

[1:04:21] to be obtained would be the beach permits. Um the water line that crosses

[1:04:26] cop John that's in their right of way. I think I shared with you Bill that right

[1:04:31] of way uh provides a lot of discussions about cop John with vrans and and we I

[1:04:37] think I think we got a good understanding.

[1:04:40] » That's good to clear that up. For clarification, the the water line

[1:04:44] goes into the VRN right ofway, but the sewer alignment is uh within the town

[1:04:48] right ofway. So, we're working with VR on on that

[1:04:52] piece of it. And um they've also had some questions about the site

[1:04:55] circulation, which uh we're discussing as well. So, that would be I mean, I

[1:05:01] would start with that, the site circulation and stacking, but any

[1:05:05] stacking, you've got three lanes coming in,

[1:05:09] assuming they're all open, which is not always the case.

[1:05:13] But backup would be on a private roadway holiday and drive first.

[1:05:19] » Yes. >> Right. How do you know you have enough

[1:05:23] stacking capability the way this is designed?

[1:05:27] » There was a traffic study done by Methods Consulting um that estimated the

[1:05:31] uh generation by this credit union of how much traffic it's going to bring

[1:05:35] one-way trips, bypass trips um based on a credit union that's already existing

[1:05:39] in Mbury. and they determined a 60 foot uh Q length was adequate um based on

[1:05:46] three lanes being open. And then we've also um written down in our active 50

[1:05:50] application as they also mentioned traffic um that any uh date tellers that

[1:05:56] there was a an issue with queuing when the portion in is is fully operational

[1:06:01] or big event lets out and there's cross traffic coming in to prevent any traffic

[1:06:05] from backflowing on Holiday Drive. They would just ask folks to come through and

[1:06:09] park in the the main parking lot.

[1:06:16] any chance of backup on to Copron Drive? >> That has not been modeled or

[1:06:22] anticipated.

[1:06:26] » Um there is another banking facility in

[1:06:32] this complex a little further down on the other side of not on Cop John Drive

[1:06:38] but know which community Oh, the community bank. Yes, community bank. Um

[1:06:45] I I shop at Hannah for a lot, but I've noticed that cars coming

[1:06:53] off uh Route 7 and into that don't always

[1:06:57] stop. And there's real issues sometimes with people trying to get into that

[1:07:02] bank. >> Nothing to do with you, but people

[1:07:05] aren't always very attentive as they're coming off seven and into a bank. So,

[1:07:12] » I guess I would be really careful about designing signage and all of that stuff

[1:07:18] because >> you're going to have you've got some

[1:07:21] conflicting.

[1:07:27] » Sure. >> Understood.

[1:07:30] Uh I can keep working through the permits that we are we are working

[1:07:34] through if you'd like. Uh so operational storm water is also one um that we are

[1:07:39] obtaining a permit for um for the treatment of imperous surface runoff. Um

[1:07:44] so there'll be a um underground detention system that detains storm

[1:07:48] water and and releases it um to the uh existing discharge point as the

[1:07:54] » uh it'd be down here to the southern property.

[1:07:58] So um storm water generally as it ex the flow is existing these purple lines are

[1:08:03] the existing contours. So the site naturally slopes this way as it is. Um

[1:08:08] we're essentially maintaining that drainage pattern. Um putting the

[1:08:12] building right here. We have some drainage coming around here. You have a

[1:08:15] drainage network here as well. Um catch basins collecting the runoff. Um and it

[1:08:19] comes into a uh these proprietary systems are really helpful for small

[1:08:23] sites and they um they detain the storm water and treat it um collected into

[1:08:28] this underground detention system. Um again just to give you a bit more

[1:08:32] context because it was subdivided from the Cortina and the Aspen property and

[1:08:37] has to meet more um stringent requirements for storm water than a

[1:08:42] typical lot of this size would be to normally. Um and then it discharges out

[1:08:47] here to this uh outlet control structure and then discharges down here to the

[1:08:51] southern parcel. Uh and there's a class two wetland down here. Um this is a

[1:08:57] buffer zone here. You can't see the the wetland on this page, but there is a

[1:09:02] class 2 wetland. >> All part of your property.

[1:09:04] » Uh no, this uh this is right here is the property line.

[1:09:09] » Okay. >> There's ement

[1:09:11] » there is an ement in placement in place. >> Yes. the the property was recently just

[1:09:14] purchased and there was easements put in place for um construction access,

[1:09:19] temporary construction access and maintenance up this drainage line.

[1:09:23] » There's a cover that comes under Route 7 from in front of the car wash from their

[1:09:28] storm water detention pond comes under Route 7 and daylights

[1:09:31] » right there >> over this area

[1:09:33] » just out the end of Cop Chandra. >> Okay,

[1:09:40] » that's storm water and drainage. Um the last permit um the the intention is to

[1:09:48] um hopefully avoid going into the wetland if needed, but we've just

[1:09:52] secured that easement if it is needed. The grading is a bit of a challenge on

[1:09:56] the site. So just trying to make sure we have enough elevation in order to drain

[1:10:01] the site effectively. So if we have to lower the drainage system in order to

[1:10:06] effect effectively capture the runoff, the uh drainage pipe outlet would need

[1:10:11] to go into the wetland buffer which would require a state wetland permit. Um

[1:10:17] so that that would be one we might be seeking as well.

[1:10:21] » Dave, where does our the cup John drive drainage boy? Say that fast three times.

[1:10:28] » Where does that go now? >> Any place?

[1:10:31] » Okay. Some of it's actually shown right here. Um like you have a catch basin up

[1:10:37] here. There's a drain pipe running through here that discharges into the

[1:10:40] wetland to the south.

[1:10:51] » Well, I shouldn't have all the fun. What the questions do?

[1:10:57] I'm enjoying her. She knows what >> she planned ahead.

[1:11:04] » She knows we ask a question.

[1:11:09] » So, the real reason we're here tonight is not just to see your lovely basis,

[1:11:13] but also to get the waste water and and sewer allocations. So, um you know, as

[1:11:18] as filing an active clean permit, um this town is a a statutory party as part

[1:11:23] of that process. So when we submit the full application, we would um be able to

[1:11:27] review all of the exciting exhibits um to uh to inform yourselves even more. Um

[1:11:34] those are not >> exciting reading.

[1:11:37] » Just a late night reading just to just to help.

[1:11:41] » Yeah. >> Um so tonight what we're just trying to

[1:11:43] obtain is just the board's approval of the water and sewer allocation uh to

[1:11:48] improve the sewer connection capacity. Um and then as well get your sign off on

[1:11:53] the municipal impact questionnaire which is just your authorization to

[1:11:58] different. Okay. Just want to make sure. >> Let me start with the water connection

[1:12:02] and the sewer allocation request >> and and just on the municipal impact

[1:12:07] questionnaire our usual practices we circulate to our department heads.

[1:12:11] » Okay. >> So they have a chance to comment should

[1:12:13] there be anything. So okay that you're probably not going to get tonight

[1:12:18] because we need to circulate that. But let's build on the water connection

[1:12:22] request and the sewer. >> Absolutely. No problem.

[1:12:25] » Okay. >> We're we're all

[1:12:28] » Okay. So, is there any motion concern those

[1:12:32] two?

[1:12:35] » Second. >> Matt's move to approve both seconded.

[1:12:39] Any discussion or questions? >> If not, all in favor please say I.

[1:12:45] Right. >> She carries five

[1:12:51] or sorry,

[1:12:57] » we're not even close to the end.

[1:13:02] » All right. >> So, where are you guys in the permit

[1:13:05] process and how soon would you like the impact questionnaire back?

[1:13:10] » I'm just saying we're anticipating to file acting 50 by the end of the month.

[1:13:14] So, Sometime in the next couple weeks we'll be at the flood.

[1:13:18] » Yeah. >> Can we circulate this among

[1:13:23] pretty easy project? >> Yeah,

[1:13:28] » it'd be good to get it signed off. >> Yeah, this one's not a big deal. It's

[1:13:32] not a Walmart.

[1:13:40] So that would be our plan to get this out and get some response to on impact

[1:13:47] question. Um

[1:13:51] any questions that come to mind on the

[1:14:01] right now

[1:14:05] police

[1:14:12] » question

[1:14:17] that's stuff that the question about traffic curious.

[1:14:24] » Yeah,

[1:14:32] there's a picture to look at.

[1:14:39] So, the other permit that we uh sent in uh maybe a little preemptively was just

[1:14:44] the the excavation and the right ofway permit for the utility connections. Um

[1:14:49] is that something you would also want to approve tonight or or hold off

[1:14:53] until closer to construction? >> They don't.

[1:14:56] » That's you. >> Even I do.

[1:14:58] » That's you. Never mind. Never mind. >> Those guys are tough.

[1:15:02] » Noted. >> It just you asked.

[1:15:08] Where is plow storage? Where is snow storage there?

[1:15:14] » Uh, great question. I

[1:15:18] we we can definitely make a spot for it on the plan.

[1:15:21] » Oh, yeah. >> Um, for sure.

[1:15:23] » I don't know. I would

[1:15:28] » the plow guy like I'm on test right now. Um,

[1:15:32] I I mean this is a retaining wall here. So, um, keep that in mind. So, you know,

[1:15:38] normally, uh, I probably would probably come in through the western entrance,

[1:15:42] um, plow that way. Um, and I would say either this corner over here, the

[1:15:47] souththeast corner towards, um, towards Cop John. Um, or maybe they could plow

[1:15:53] storage here um, in this corner uh, where the retaining wall ends. Kurt,

[1:15:59] how' I do? >> Yeah, that's about right.

[1:16:01] » Okay. >> I'll let you know when I get the plow

[1:16:03] contract. I got other counts on south end of town.

[1:16:08] » We didn't hear any.

[1:16:17] What else that we might want to ask about? I mean, you can always

[1:16:22] ring you up, ask you questions. >> Absolutely.

[1:16:28] Um what's the max uh maximum or the number of cars going through here

[1:16:35] anticipated at any given time, you know, peak peak time?

[1:16:39] » Yeah, the peak um I I believe off the top of my head is 224 daily users.

[1:16:44] » Okay. >> Um that could be one-way trips, people

[1:16:48] who are in like specifically going to the credit union. Yeah. um any I think

[1:16:52] bypass trips it's increasing to I want to say the 300s but I don't know how

[1:16:57] much >> okay and there's a signal there

[1:17:02] » yes

[1:17:06] » does that need to be rettimed or is that okay

[1:17:11] » we have not gotten any of that feedback from um indicating that that would be

[1:17:16] their decision that was needed u I don't believe that's anticipated by the

[1:17:21] traffic study. >> Yeah, there's a lot of um people who

[1:17:26] scoot that way >> um to avoid going through the

[1:17:31] intersection up here or >> you know sometimes they come in this way

[1:17:35] and go up. >> I wouldn't know myself, but

[1:17:41] people do come down top. >> It could be easier to make a right turn

[1:17:45] to go south. Yes. It's also improved things since they um instituted the

[1:17:50] blinking lights and not just had red or green down there.

[1:17:54] » That's helped a lot. >> Yeah,

[1:17:56] » they have instituted like a yellow flashing arrow

[1:18:00] » so that when there's no oncoming traffic, someone's sitting in the queue

[1:18:05] to make the turn. >> It's still can be a little scary, but

[1:18:10] » guess I'm there too late. >> It's getting pedals on the right.

[1:18:15] » Yeah. point and shoot. >> It is 224 total one-way trips. Um 20

[1:18:21] a.m. peak hour trips and 46 PM one-way trips.

[1:18:25] » Okay. All right. And did you look at any of

[1:18:29] the internal circulation once people are in here and then headed off where that's

[1:18:33] not part of is that 250 gonna ask about that

[1:18:38] » trans won't but >> in that the internal circulation is all

[1:18:41] standardized um like lane widths and parking stall widths. Um

[1:18:48] » the traffic study has guided a lot of the decision making here. Um,

[1:18:54] actually trying to look at everything, but um I'm thinking of

[1:19:01] cars coming out, picking up the money to go grocery shopping, then coming out,

[1:19:06] going up Copron Drive to that intersection now with cars coming

[1:19:11] immediately off Route 7. So that all gets taken into account by the traffic

[1:19:15] study. They're looking at intersections to the north and south and kind of the

[1:19:19] larger area and not only this property. Um, so will be reviewing all of that as

[1:19:25] part of the application. >> That's right. Because that's their

[1:19:29] own thing. They own that inter

[1:19:35] » um it's a VR right away that they have essentially turned over

[1:19:42] approval of projects to us to manage. >> Oh, thank you very much.

[1:19:48] » Yeah. Right. So like the excavation rightway if if they wanted to have the

[1:19:53] access from their driveway onto that subend John drive that's up it's it's

[1:19:58] state rightaway. It's our road. It's

[1:20:04] » I asked because I mean there are also cars coming in here to go to Taco Bell.

[1:20:10] » Nope. Not here. >> Not Holiday Drive. They go but they come

[1:20:14] down. They go >> intersection. This We'll make that

[1:20:18] intersection here.

[1:20:24] I think the um the east west holiday drive is is has

[1:20:32] the rightway because cop drive have a stop has a stop sign. So cars coming

[1:20:36] from the plaza direction have to stop and they they they have to wait for any

[1:20:40] cars are coming there. So any of the stacking is going to go around those the

[1:20:43] cars leaving either the Aspental Plaza, the the

[1:20:48] » hotel or this, they're going to have the right away versus the traffic coming

[1:20:53] south of Cop John Drive. >> Yeah,

[1:20:56] that's the theory. Yes. >> And I'm I'm a I'm a former credit union

[1:21:02] of Vermont refugee

[1:21:07] » and I've been in that credit union for 15, 16, 17, 18 years. And I understand

[1:21:15] this is probably going to create more traffic than that place does, but

[1:21:20] there's really not there's they have no parking. They have no

[1:21:26] drive-thru. They have nothing >> where they are now.

[1:21:28] » Where they are now. And there's not cars sitting in the middle of Terrell Street

[1:21:31] or on North Main Street trying to get into the place.

[1:21:34] » It's true. >> Is this a second branch or a replacement

[1:21:38] branch? >> Second branch.

[1:21:40] » Yes, we're keeping the other location.

[1:21:45] » All right. Any other

[1:21:50] discussion or questions that the select board has

[1:21:54] » in the bill >> get the

[1:22:01] clarify right now. >> Thank you so much.

[1:22:04] » You all

[1:22:11] you'll do the circulating on the >> thing. Y and you'll talk to the I hear

[1:22:16] about >> he's he just he just signed off he's

[1:22:19] already read the thing first the last one

[1:22:26] » the same

[1:22:33] » thanks for coming along for having us >> thanks for knowing what you talking

[1:22:38] about >> we appreciate that too they're great

[1:22:42] partner

[1:22:45] water bottle. >> You have a water bottle. Okay,

[1:22:48] » I do. Yes. Thank you. >> Appreciate it.

[1:22:50] » Um, is there anything else?

[1:22:56] » We're just starting our meeting now. >> I did talk to

[1:23:02] that later. >> Okay.

[1:23:06] So, I guess we just go to We don't have any other guest visitors. We just had

[1:23:12] department heads just and they're very important to the department.

[1:23:16] » Um

[1:23:19] » we could try to skip unless there is an

[1:23:25] um well town police chief and we do have e on

[1:23:30] that

[1:23:34] » police did

[1:23:43] So I left

[1:23:47] sheet on your desk

[1:23:55] on them with numbers. So I held them so I can get on.

[1:24:03] » But look at this. We had 194 calls added last month.

[1:24:10] Uh 33 of those were traffic stops which was our highest

[1:24:14] all added followed by suspicious director patrols fingerprints. We're

[1:24:19] still getting a lot of school fingerprints and then agency assist. Uh

[1:24:24] Rutland Town was 114 and we classify Rutland Town as

[1:24:30] anything other than the south end. >> Okay. So, and then 62 were Rutland Town

[1:24:34] South. And then eight were no value because I don't know what happened, but

[1:24:38] last month dispatch kept entering calls into the wrong zone for us. So, they

[1:24:44] would try to send us to Wells and Killington and things like that, and we

[1:24:47] said, "No, thank you." >> Yeah. It's not just a police thing.

[1:24:51] » No. Um,

[1:24:56] list of the types of calls in the areas attached to this

[1:25:10] As far as arrestable offenses, uh, retail theft for misdemeanor was our

[1:25:15] top one with five. And then there were violation of conditions of release, uh,

[1:25:20] possession, sale, stolen property, operation from the owner's consent,

[1:25:25] which is Vermont's version of grand lararseny or grand theft auto. uh false

[1:25:30] information to a police officer, arrest on warrant, trespassing, and then

[1:25:34] aggravated disorderly conduct

[1:25:43] » road. Should we do that in a different meeting?

[1:25:46] » Uh it's a it's not to to the residents who live there. It's we have a house on

[1:25:51] Glacian Road that's a problem. Uh we're trying to work with residents on

[1:25:56] fixing that problem. very much a portal road style house

[1:26:05] as a home. >> That's what we're currently trying to

[1:26:08] work on that.

[1:26:18] » So what I mean I guess I'm used to that other little is this a bump up in south

[1:26:24] end activity? I think there were two or I think this was about four or five more

[1:26:28] calls in the south end compared to last month.

[1:26:30] » Okay. >> Um but we had more calls overall than

[1:26:34] last month.

[1:26:37] » Um there's no encampments on this particular property that the credit

[1:26:42] union's looking at to build. >> Not there. It's too open.

[1:26:46] » It's too open of a lot. It >> is very cold.

[1:26:49] » It wasn't until we fixed the cover last year.

[1:26:53] You're talking more on the southern end of in the tall grass.

[1:26:56] » Oh, okay. >> Yep.

[1:27:03] » Okay. Questions before we move on to

[1:27:09] » I have other than item E. I only have two things.

[1:27:12] » Okay. >> If we're done with stats though.

[1:27:14] » Yeah. Unless somebody else has a question about the numbers.

[1:27:21] » No, go ahead. Sorry. >> The death investigation. I felt that was

[1:27:24] right. >> Yeah.

[1:27:26] » Yeah. That started as something and then turned into that.

[1:27:29] » Okay. >> But that was from what the residents on

[1:27:32] Cordeline were talking about, I believe. >> Okay.

[1:27:40] What's next? >> Uh good news. Uh the applicant accepted

[1:27:45] our final offer and good. >> They will be starting September 21st.

[1:27:50] » Great. So >> very good.

[1:27:52] » Yeah. So that is very good news. >> And that is the patrol position that's

[1:27:58] been vacant since Ed went out. >> Y

[1:28:01] » still looking for an SRO. >> Okay. And you're covering the school now

[1:28:05] as >> Yes.

[1:28:07] » We're not going to get into when you go up there, but you're up there.

[1:28:10] » Yeah. >> Okay.

[1:28:11] » Um

[1:28:14] » maybe >> uh got a call from Justin Belden today.

[1:28:19] Uh I went up there. >> Uh a large portion of the fence was torn

[1:28:23] down over the weekend and uh go on the south side of the building

[1:28:30] closer to Spartan. Somebody tied a chain around doors they

[1:28:35] welded and ripped the doors off the building.

[1:28:37] » Oh. >> And left the doors in the middle of the

[1:28:39] parking lot. >> So Beldin's crew was actually up there

[1:28:42] when I went up and they were working on how they're going to secure that. That's

[1:28:47] they're that's the part they want to keep.

[1:28:50] » Yeah, that's on the old Kmart backside of the old Kmart.

[1:28:54] » Any things missing from the entrance? >> I have no idea.

[1:28:59] » All we know is took the thing out.

[1:29:04] » They So, they ripped out the doors from the building. They also ripped out one

[1:29:07] of the lamp post columns >> because that's laying next to the doors

[1:29:11] in the middle of the parking lot.

[1:29:15] There's no cameras up there. >> There was one. There were two and one

[1:29:19] was as it one was destroyed. Has it been replaced?

[1:29:25] » Not another one either. Cuz that one was also destroyed.

[1:29:29] » Both of them are gone. >> Mhm.

[1:29:31] » Okay. And what's their security folks doing up around there? Why did we get

[1:29:36] the call? >> Uh so there Justin was reporting the

[1:29:39] vandalism because that's the criminal side of everything. Um, as far as the

[1:29:45] trash, other trash that I saw that was up there,

[1:29:49] that would be on the mall themselves. >> Um, Spart I'm reaching out to Spartan to

[1:29:54] see what they can provide me because their building is overlooks that side of

[1:29:57] the building, but I haven't heard back yet.

[1:30:01] Oh, the uh site visit is Thursday, >> which uh the mall is very well known of

[1:30:07] because when I was talking to Justin, they were frantically trying to figure

[1:30:09] out how they're going to get that all fixed by Thursday.

[1:30:14] » So,

[1:30:22] that is all I have for announcements. Okay.

[1:30:26] Um so,

[1:30:31] Oh yeah, JP is on. Um, at our last police committee meeting, JP called to

[1:30:37] our attention that there was a thing that needed to be fixed due to

[1:30:43] state law um about the the speed limit in front of the school

[1:30:50] on Post Road, which we have 25. Um, state law says it's I think this is

[1:30:57] right. I'm sure JP will correct me if I'm wrong. Um, and we had referred in

[1:31:03] our ordinance to the flashing when lights are flashing up there. That's

[1:31:08] when there it's 25, but it's actually 25 at all times. So, what you have in front

[1:31:15] of you in your packet E is a rewrite of that particular section

[1:31:22] of the ordinance so that we conform with state law. and we've taken out the words

[1:31:28] flashing. So, it doesn't matter whether the lights are on or not. Um, the speed

[1:31:34] zone up in front of the school is 25 miles an hour and then on either end of

[1:31:38] it um it's 35. Is that Did I do it right, JP?

[1:31:47] » He's there. >> He is there. I think I think I

[1:31:51] » turn your radar up, JP. So um we have you have E which is the

[1:31:59] new proposed ordinance language for that particular section. And then if you turn

[1:32:06] the page you see page 16 of 19 which is a section out of our ordinance

[1:32:13] um that has the flashing light language that we wanted to leave. So it shows you

[1:32:19] the new proposed and the old as it is. There was the question about the as set

[1:32:24] forth above. >> Yes.

[1:32:26] » So you do you have mayor on your desk that you have two versions of the

[1:32:29] ordinance amendment. One includes that and one does not. So

[1:32:34] » well I'm I interpreted that as set forth above. If you look at where the yellow

[1:32:40] highlighting is and down where it says 35 post road,

[1:32:46] um there is a reference to the school zone and I I interpreted that as asset

[1:32:51] forth above refers to that 25 mile school zone just above. So I didn't see

[1:32:57] any excess garbage, but that's why we have two lawyers on the board. So I

[1:33:01] didn't disagree on things. >> I agree. My only question is now I

[1:33:08] finally got the other comments a while ago

[1:33:13] it's bunch of other stuff this is talking about. So yeah,

[1:33:17] » is it going to be a hassle if we do this? I mean,

[1:33:20] » so Ted and I were talking about that earlier. It's a 60 what if you if you

[1:33:24] for example if you approve the amendment tonight,

[1:33:26] » it goes in for its adoption process of like 60 days

[1:33:32] if you want to. The problem is that becomes November when it takes effect

[1:33:36] which is >> we might be having other discussions

[1:33:39] during November and October. So might probably going to take over ordinance

[1:33:42] changes, but we can do them in in two different two different steps. It's not

[1:33:47] a big deal. It's just more work to do the warnings, things

[1:33:51] like that. So there are other things that have to get changed and I talking

[1:33:56] tonight over there even even in the draft, there's still more things need to

[1:34:00] get changed. So, it would be more advantageous to do this if you're ready,

[1:34:07] do this tonight >> and then get into the rest of the

[1:34:10] changes and we can plan those and then we have a new draft which will already

[1:34:14] incorporate this change but all the other things will need to get fixed as

[1:34:18] well. And I sense there was some urgency

[1:34:23] because you know it's the school zone thing but

[1:34:25] » yeah but adopting it tonight it starts a clock so it doesn't actually take effect

[1:34:30] but it will get us a lot closer. I'll move to approve

[1:34:37] the amendments.

[1:34:45] » Motion's been made and seconded to approve.

[1:34:49] Which one? The one that's in our packet. >> Okay. The one in the envelope. It's the

[1:34:54] one that says asset work above. Yes. One in the P folder.

[1:35:02] That one says as set forth. >> Oh, it's lefty as set forth above. Okay,

[1:35:06] » it's in the one I'm looking at. So that's

[1:35:08] » okay. Very good. It includes the language as set forth above which will

[1:35:13] make the chair feel validated useful. >> That's what's important. That one you

[1:35:18] all get to sign that one. >> Any further discussion?

[1:35:21] If not, all in favor of amending the ordinance to take out the flashing

[1:35:27] birds, please say I. >> I. I. Motion carries four in favor with

[1:35:34] one that's

[1:35:49] okay. So that starts the clock just

[1:35:58] » anything else for our police chief.

[1:36:04] » Okay. Thanks very much. >> Appreciate it.

[1:36:20] All right. Next on the agenda. Oh, look. It's Dave Sears down commissioner.

[1:36:25] » I bet

[1:36:32] short, sweet, and to the point. >> Um

[1:36:36] » just expensive. >> Yeah, it always

[1:36:39] » Yeah. Uh paving on the uh neighborhood off of uh Avenue is still continuing. Um

[1:36:50] they did a little bit today. They're going to do as much as they can do

[1:36:53] tomorrow before it rains. And they said they should be able to finish that up on

[1:36:56] Friday so that that neighborhood will be done. Uh we paved the ditches on Gro

[1:37:02] Street where we replace the culverts. Uh, so that's ready for them when

[1:37:06] they're ready to uh mill and fill that. Um, they don't

[1:37:12] have a date yet, but they said uh possibly mid to late next week.

[1:37:22] We went to the centerland fire department today and cleaned up after

[1:37:26] the paving from zoom and uh painted the parking lot and that's all happy

[1:37:33] and uh we have a committee meeting on Thursday at 9:00 with Robert Clark and

[1:37:38] go over this East Grand View or East Mountain View covert situation and

[1:37:44] figure out what is the best avenue to fix that thing.

[1:37:51] That's it. >> Did we have that flagged or noted

[1:37:57] anywhere? >> Negative.

[1:38:03] » It was noted when roads class. >> That was a

[1:38:06] » noted. >> Do we noted?

[1:38:09] » I guess there isn't much that we can do to anticipate those.

[1:38:14] » Uh we did covert inspections last year. the the bottom rotted out and

[1:38:20] paved up. >> I guess that's why we got the this the

[1:38:24] collapse of the road. >> Um it

[1:38:28] wasn't that way last winter. Only one section of it. The whole thing didn't do

[1:38:33] it. It's just one section of the pipe that did. So um I mean it's a galvanized

[1:38:37] pipe >> in the middle, right?

[1:38:39] » Well, yeah. >> Is

[1:38:43] you know I mean it's galvanized. It's galvanized pipe and it has a lifespan

[1:38:46] and it's I don't know when it was put in but probably 40 50 years ago

[1:38:52] got their money out of it >> there. This is the one we looked at last

[1:38:57] week or two weeks ago. >> Yes.

[1:38:59] » So there was some discussion about getting a temporary something from the

[1:39:03] state to go ahead. >> So I've got I had a discussion with Josh

[1:39:07] Carveral who's this rivers and streams guy

[1:39:11] um and Otter Creek had a discussion with him also. We have

[1:39:17] couple options. None of them are good because now that it's collapsed, it

[1:39:22] needs to be it can't be repaired in kind. It has to meet the standards. So,

[1:39:29] right now it's a 48 inch cover that's in there.

[1:39:33] When it gets a complete, it's going to look more

[1:39:39] along the lines of what's about to be put in on Stratton Road. It's going to

[1:39:42] have to be 12 to 14 feet wide. And

[1:39:48] um we have some options. They'll give us a permit to repair it, but the permit's

[1:39:54] only good for two years. We have to do something with it within two years

[1:39:59] um as a permit fix. And if we can't get the funding and we can't get everything

[1:40:04] put together, they'll give us an extension. But it's not a forever thing.

[1:40:07] It's a two-year window. Try to hit the window. If you miss the window, we'll

[1:40:12] give you a little grace, but after that, you got to do something. So, um, you

[1:40:17] know, we got the structures grant for Straten.

[1:40:20] Chances of us the structures grant next year for this are slim.

[1:40:24] » Yeah. >> And oft

[1:40:30] grant mo most likely, unless the state somehow shows mercy on

[1:40:36] us because the thing failed and they bump us up the list a little bit.

[1:40:41] um >> send pictures of the road.

[1:40:44] » Fix this place. >> But then again, you know, and this goes

[1:40:49] into a discussion we were having about a depreciation account for culverts

[1:40:53] because even if I mean this this culvert on Stratton Road is going to be

[1:40:57] somewhere in the 400 $450,000 range and the state's max is 200,000.

[1:41:04] So the extra money that we budgeted for that cover is going to have to be

[1:41:10] carried forward in this next budget looking at down the line for this

[1:41:15] culvert. You know, we're going to have to come up

[1:41:17] with some kind of a plan here. It I mean, you know, the thing Devin was

[1:41:22] talking about tonight was a little bit bigger in scope than what

[1:41:28] we I mean, that's all-encompassing, but would fit because that

[1:41:34] Y >> and this isn't the only one that's going

[1:41:37] to fail in the town. There's a a million I mean there's 760

[1:41:42] some odd coververts in town and you know there's a vast majority of them are

[1:41:48] galvanized. >> Probably will have to be 14 ft wide.

[1:41:53] Probably not all of them, but there'll be some.

[1:41:57] » Hoping to see in this new color inventory is maybe looking ahead at how

[1:42:02] many short structures which which covers will have to be

[1:42:07] upgraded, >> you know, and like so this this cover is

[1:42:11] downstream of the one that was replaced on Town Line Road two years ago, three

[1:42:14] years ago. And as they go downstream, they get it has more storm water that it

[1:42:19] collects. So they get bigger as they go down the hill. So this one, this one's

[1:42:25] going to be 14 ft wide. The next one down, not even sure what that really is,

[1:42:29] but that one could be 18 ft wide. I mean, they just

[1:42:34] » Yeah, I think the next one after that's the city.

[1:42:36] » Okay. Well, then we're all good there. But

[1:42:40] » they can have it estimate for replacement cost.

[1:42:45] » I mean, you I know you want to go to the meeting.

[1:42:48] » I know. Well, >> I'd say 3 350 is on the cheaper side,

[1:42:53] probably at >> on a walk day. Yeah.

[1:42:56] » Yeah. >> I mean, the engineers the engineers

[1:42:59] estimate for Straten Road was half $500,000.

[1:43:04] » Okay. >> We're coming in hopefully a little bit

[1:43:06] less than that, but

[1:43:11] they don't get cheaper. >> No.

[1:43:12] » Prices don't go down. Passive fuel $6 a gallon all of a sudden.

[1:43:18] » Okay. And I'll be bringing that probably the

[1:43:20] next time uh is the uh hubards asked for something for fuel for this year for

[1:43:27] plowing. >> So I'm trying to work something out with

[1:43:30] them and I'll I'll have that. Hopefully I'll have that nailed down by next week

[1:43:33] or next >> years ago.

[1:43:34] » Yeah, we did what my first year here 22. >> Gave them a fuel stipen.

[1:43:39] » Yeah, remember we didn't need it for a few years, but I guess we're back.

[1:43:43] » Yeah, we're back. Almost tipped over this morning when I

[1:43:47] came by the Irving down on South Main Street. It was 609 a gallon.

[1:43:51] Drove into a pole. Kidding me.

[1:43:56] » Hey. Um, well, we have had a couple of bids here on heating oil, but we'll go

[1:44:03] through those later. I can't blame those on you. So,

[1:44:09] » um, >> and then the only other thing on the the

[1:44:11] action items is G for the quarter line thing.

[1:44:14] » Okay. This is we asked Bill last week to come up with a schedule to do the

[1:44:22] whatever is necessary for public warning site inspection and then um whatever

[1:44:28] waiting period to

[1:44:33] um standardize that's probably the best way the speed limit on quarterline road

[1:44:38] to >> road class of course road classification

[1:44:41] » get that in there but that's road classification for class three parts of

[1:44:46] it are class 4 and we're going to presumably

[1:44:52] um standardized. Um so any questions, concerns on

[1:44:59] » October 20th would be the kind of come up with that that's that's a board

[1:45:02] meeting night. >> Yeah.

[1:45:03] » And that give me a comfortable amount of time to

[1:45:07] get the notices out in the morning. >> Okay. Um, and then that studying that

[1:45:13] date, everything else kind of works off of that. So,

[1:45:15] » okay, >> there's a couple other things here and

[1:45:17] there, but it's but if that becomes the date that that's the date everything

[1:45:20] kind of works off of. >> Okay.

[1:45:24] » Um, >> that would involve so

[1:45:28] » and does that give you enough time to get notices out to people?

[1:45:31] » Yes. Okay. >> Trying to account for

[1:45:34] speed of the post office currently. Um, >> see the certified does help get there a

[1:45:39] little bit more quickly, but I didn't know if you want to change the times at

[1:45:42] all. Like I did 5:00 for on the road and then 6:30 for the hearing.

[1:45:47] » It usually only takes about maybe half an hour up there and if it's raining or

[1:45:52] snowing um would be a shorter meeting and then it gives us an

[1:45:58] » I could just walk out.

[1:46:04] Um, so that I think that gives us enough time.

[1:46:07] » You think so? Yeah. >> Okay.

[1:46:11] » Questions we're going to answer on the road anyway.

[1:46:14] » Can't really It's not it's it's it's just for the

[1:46:19] board. >> And then is then

[1:46:23] » just meet here and go there and run to the Well,

[1:46:27] » I'm gonna start there because I'm kind of close.

[1:46:36] school year at least time.

[1:46:42] » Um and then there's is the public meeting back here the same night or

[1:46:46] » that that was the plan. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. No, we can do it.

[1:46:50] » That's where people can either.

[1:46:54] » Okay. >> Very nicely stated.

[1:46:56] » Yeah. Right. Um, do we need to formally

[1:47:02] approve the process? >> Doesn't require a motion because they

[1:47:06] you certainly can. >> All right. Why don't you

[1:47:11] Let's do a motion. Let's um approve the schedule set out by our town

[1:47:17] administrator and proceed with warning the change of road classification on

[1:47:24] Quarterline Road from three and four variously to all three.

[1:47:33] » Good motion. Motion's made and seconded. Any further

[1:47:37] discussion? >> Look real good in the minutes in front

[1:47:41] of it. All in favor, please say I.

[1:47:44] » I. >> I.

[1:47:47] Any oppose? Motion carries. 4 Z. Okay. Um.

[1:47:53] That takes care of that. Anything else for our road commissioner?

[1:48:03] » On the uh you can ask him while he's here. The Stratton Road contract

[1:48:07] document. Parts need to get filled in. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One section is

[1:48:12] someone that saw you sign it needs to sign it that says they saw you sign it.

[1:48:19] » And the other one is the designated uh town official

[1:48:25] which gave but that's you guys. Um the minutes

[1:48:32] from the August 14th who was here in August 14th

[1:48:38] will was everybody. >> Okay. So um since you were all here I

[1:48:45] will say that this is my signature and I signed it on 82526

[1:48:51] and surely you remember >> my motion wasn't it?

[1:48:57] So Matt, she's filling that the attest and the title part and then the

[1:49:00] designated >> then we need a motion to designate Dave

[1:49:06] » as the town's >> designated authority to do something

[1:49:11] probably pay for it >> can write down a six-digit number just

[1:49:17] anybody else can

[1:49:23] » you want to make the the other motion and the town's designate.

[1:49:33] » Motion's made. Is there a second? >> Second.

[1:49:36] » And seconded discussion.

[1:49:40] If not, all in favor, please say I. >> I.

[1:49:47] We put in the uh we put in the uh here. Yes, you can. Yeah, you can fill that or

[1:49:54] I can do it later. It's fine. That I'm going to or it gets away. I'm

[1:49:58] going to put in >> Does somebody have to sign saying that

[1:50:05] we made that motion too? >> There is not a signature line for that.

[1:50:08] » Okay, very good.

[1:50:15] » Okay. Goes in the pink folder. >> Good color.

[1:50:22] What do you call it? >> Okay.

[1:50:26] » To talk about this translator

[1:50:47] » is a rebuttal for my rebuttal. It's their It's their followup.

[1:50:53] » Thanks for that. >> They're not going to Why don't we use

[1:50:56] full sentences and just describe for the record what

[1:51:02] » based upon the historical permits, agreements, uh previous efforts to

[1:51:09] install a second left-hand turn lane which VR posed when that was done. uh in

[1:51:16] the presence of the traffic study that we provided them and the absence of new

[1:51:22] traffic data from the new store that is under construction and the one that may

[1:51:25] be under construction. They are declining to support our proposal to

[1:51:30] remove the island and install their driveway.

[1:51:34] » All right.

[1:51:39] » Apparently that made it rounds.

[1:51:43] I got to be transit that it made around people felt a lot of attention. So

[1:51:49] hoping that if we maybe back go I I talked a lot of the owners see if we can

[1:51:55] get their traffic information and or if we want to how we want to do with

[1:52:00] this if we want to keep keep trying to go after this.

[1:52:04] » Let's have Joe in on the discussion too. >> Yeah.

[1:52:14] I think we just go down there, take the island out, repaint it, and let them

[1:52:17] rock >> cuz there's the light that if you get on

[1:52:20] there and look at it, the lights down there work for what we're trying to do.

[1:52:23] » So, >> it's just not the extra one that they

[1:52:26] want, but the lights that are there's a there's a righthand turn one that comes

[1:52:30] on and signals right turn. It works. Yeah, I've I've not had a problem

[1:52:35] getting out. >> They they addressed a concern about

[1:52:38] truck traffic or ferals having a difficult a more difficult time trying

[1:52:43] to cross two left hand one right hand turn lane rather than just one of each

[1:52:47] right now.

[1:52:51] » Did you talk about a slip lane that we were going to put in? We let go of that.

[1:52:54] That that was >> a little dig at us, wasn't it?

[1:52:59] » There kind of was. Um, but there's no real good solution for that. I mean,

[1:53:06] unless we legitimately

[1:53:10] just eliminate that section of Cop John Drive and there is no more that little

[1:53:17] that little section beyond the Feral Road part that goes Feral Road to to

[1:53:21] Holiday Drive. >> I don't see them obviously that's that's

[1:53:24] a >> the whole step, but but we would have to

[1:53:27] do that with a slip lane because we could we couldn't have traffic crossing

[1:53:30] anyway. So >> yeah,

[1:53:32] » I mean maybe a a a comprehensive look at between those two intersections given

[1:53:38] there's now this credit union coming in. Are there changes additional changes

[1:53:43] that make sense on a bigger scale that could be trans right away you know that

[1:53:48] they could they could help help support throughout throughout that whole section

[1:53:52] of Cop John Drive. Yeah.

[1:53:56] » Oh my just wanted a traffic just

[1:54:01] So, >> okay.

[1:54:03] » Uh, the short answer is no. Like I don't think I don't think it's it's a forever

[1:54:08] no. It's a we we need to make a better case for them and till we do that that's

[1:54:13] not going to go anywhere. >> I'm not sure that's a huge priority.

[1:54:21] » Okay. Well, thanks for your input on that.

[1:54:24] Anything else for our road commissioner?

[1:54:30] » I just got one more thing. Had you taken my advice last meeting, you would have

[1:54:34] been home half an hour ago. I'm out.

[1:54:39] » Yeah. Thanks a lot. >> Good night everybody.

[1:54:43] » Good night. Well, okay.

[1:54:48] Uh Chris Clark, town fire chief >> there.

[1:54:55] probably asleep. >> Do you have anything for Kim?

[1:55:07] » Can you hear me? >> There he is.

[1:55:09] » There we go. >> Hi, Chief.

[1:55:12] » Hi. How is everybody? >> Oh, hunky dory. Thank you.

[1:55:18] » Oh, good. Good. Uh, just one thing. Uh the radios we ordered have come in. So

[1:55:24] in your paperwork there is the bill. Uh like we discussed I took it out of the

[1:55:30] depreciation fund until um

[1:55:35] Mr. Walmart starts his construction and repays us back. So there is a bill in

[1:55:42] there from the depreciation fund for the radios.

[1:55:46] » Yes, we saw that. and the police department has a little bit in there,

[1:55:50] too. And I noticed that the costs were split between the two of you. So, thank

[1:55:56] you very much. And we did approve it earlier.

[1:55:59] » Yes. Perfect. So, that's all I had. So, I know you have a long night. So, uh,

[1:56:04] unless you have a question, I'm good. >> Anything else for our fire chief? Okay.

[1:56:11] Thank you very much, Chris. Appreciate it.

[1:56:13] » Thanks. Have a good one. >> You, too. All right, Marie Fagnant, town

[1:56:19] listister. And we have

[1:56:24] the error emissions. >> Yes, we can. Um, we're looking under

[1:56:29] action item F, errors and emissions certificate for the listers. And this

[1:56:33] one actually gives us more value in our grand list, right?

[1:56:40] » Yes, it does. It is a significant uh change that was um prompted by the

[1:56:50] entity because the state actually had incorrectly

[1:56:54] valued their utility property. So, uh kudos to them for reaching out

[1:57:01] and saying that they actually owed us more and it's assessed under the real

[1:57:05] estate uh property. So, at the same time, I was just checking my emails and

[1:57:12] the other entity that had purchased all the equipment that we had to purge on

[1:57:18] the last ENO has indicated that they need to report and reconcile that

[1:57:26] equipment as well. So, we are going to come back up even more. Um, so those are

[1:57:33] really developments. Yes. So, I'm going to keep it short. That's basically all

[1:57:38] we have. So, if we could sign those, I can get uh revised or sign that one.

[1:57:43] I'll have to do the next one for the next meeting. Um we'll get revised bills

[1:57:48] up. >> Okay. Um this is the Arizona missions

[1:57:54] certificate already approved by Marie uh Fagnet and Kathy Capitansky

[1:58:00] to increase the grandless value of Vermont Transco. LLC

[1:58:06] by 73,837.99.

[1:58:10] Um, so and we all get to sign. So, is there a motion to approve?

[1:58:16] » Move. >> Second.

[1:58:17] » Motion's made and seconded. Any further discussion?

[1:58:22] If not, all in favor, please say I. >> I.

[1:58:25] » I. Motion carries. Okay.

[1:58:30] » Very good. and I will take my lead. Thank you

[1:58:35] everyone. Have a great night.

[1:58:39] » Nice.

[1:58:42] I'm rep director.

[1:59:37] We we have a couple of senior uh senior activities coming up. If the seniors

[1:59:42] would like to take advantage of them, we're going up at some point uh to the

[1:59:46] top of Killington, the senior stop at Killington on the gondola for the

[1:59:50] foliage and we're going to do a modified version of

September 9th, 2026, Selectboard Meeting

Transcript