[0:02] Okay. So, >> Too much to talk of.

[0:05] » You're welcome. >> How are you doing?

[0:07] » What do you mean? You're here and you want to lead the

[0:10] prayer? Okay. I'll give it to you when you're done.

[0:14] All right. Let's pray. Lord, I just thank you

[0:18] for the opportunity to meet today. I I just ask for wisdom within our

[0:22] conversations that we would make decisions that are wise and good for the

[0:27] town, good for the people that live here. We are so grateful for this

[0:30] opportunity. Thank you for the sunshine and the cooler weather. We trust you

[0:34] and we love you. It's in Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

[0:36] » Amen. >> Pledge of Allegiance to the flag

[0:40] of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one

[0:45] nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[0:54] » Want to bless the apple tree and for the Constitution.

[0:59] I still remember it.

[1:05] All right.

[1:08] » We're recording but not live. I don't have to work.

[1:11] » Do we have Greg on?

[1:14] » Yes. >> Just standing by?

[1:17] » We do now. I didn't Oh, we do now. >> All right.

[1:21] Okay. So, we're going to start at the top of the list with a public hearing

[1:26] for the 2026 budget. And

[1:31] we are here to take any comments on the budget.

[1:41] Hi, Greg. >> Hi.

[1:44] Yeah. Sorry, it glitched out.

[1:47] » have any comments on the budget?

[1:53] » Can you hear us? >> It's so quiet.

[1:56] I can't hear you, Greg. Come on, Greg.

[1:59] » We don't have an IT guy here, so >> Oh, no.

[2:04] » It's sign language. >> We can see him.

[2:07] » How about now? I can hear you.

[2:11] » There, there he is. >> We can hear you.

[2:14] » Good.

[2:17] All right. So, I opened the hearing and nobody has said anything.

[2:23] Do you have anything you'd like to add, Greg?

[2:26] » Well, it other than you know, I know the council's worked really hard and I'm

[2:32] putting together the budget. We put the form three on gateway. Form

[2:40] three shows some proposed tax levies as compared to the current tax levy and

[2:45] average we advertise those high as we always do.

[2:50] Your maximum levy growth quotient is 4%, so you will not go over the 4% no matter

[2:57] what the state will cut you back and as I told the council, you'll lose half if

[3:03] not all of that next year due to the new $300 credit the lesser of 10% or $300.

[3:12] So, we've got to be very very careful and and that's why I recommended not to

[3:17] exceed 3% on the salaries and next year we might be dealing with zero.

[3:24] You just don't know. Uh zero in the growth quotient, which means maybe

[3:30] hard to even give a raise. So, that's was my guidance in the all day workshop

[3:35] that we had and it is still my guidance at this point in time. So, I will yield

[3:41] the floor back. >> Thank you, Greg.

[3:48] Do you guys have any questions for Greg?

[3:55] » Here's your opportunity going once, twice,

[4:01] three times. All right, we'll close the public

[4:04] hearing. Thank you, Greg. >> Sure, do you need me for anything else

[4:08] tonight? >> I think we're okay.

[4:12] » I know you're okay.

[4:16] » I heard you have an appointment. We'll let you go.

[4:18] » Thank you very much. Have a good evening.

[4:20] » Thanks, Greg. >> Bye.

[4:24] » All right.

[4:29] We need a motion to

[4:33] accept the agenda. >> go back. Sorry.

[4:35] » I make a motion to accept the agenda with flex flexibilities.

[4:39] » I second. >> Have a motion and a second. All in

[4:41] favor? >> Aye.

[4:42] » Aye. And opposed? That was easy.

[4:47] I'm going to skip down to the PD because they have someplace they need to go.

[4:57] » Just monthly reports for August.

[5:01] So, just looks like typical. Nothing's really changed and we're down on

[5:07] our traffic stops since it's pretty much two of us and

[5:12] Brian graduates tomorrow, so we'll Everything goes as planned, he'll be

[5:16] starting next Wednesday. So, like I said,

[5:20] uh like a lot of our stats are down. We've definitely got our agency assist

[5:23] her up and then extra patrols are up cuz the school.

[5:27] We're trying to make sure that we have at least an officer there twice a day

[5:31] checking schools out. Make sure everyone's getting dropped off

[5:34] and picked up. And uh

[5:37] library details are down, case reports are down.

[5:40] And crash reports are normally high around this time of year

[5:43] cuz people like to back into to other up there. this degree.

[5:47] So, I think that's pretty much it on my end. Do you guys got any questions?

[5:54] » None for me. >> Thank you.

[5:56] » Thanks. >> Thank you.

[5:57] » That was easy. 10:00 tomorrow?

[6:01] All right. See you.

[6:07] I'll be nice and let you go, too, before I go back.

[6:11] Come on up, Lyle. >> have to leave early.

[6:14] » I might have to. >> I mean, he's got three things here.

[6:16] Maybe I should have him sit back down. >> Uh two things, actually. I don't The one

[6:21] was just a quote to show

[6:24] um I'm trying to get multiple quotes. So,

[6:27] working on this engine that we have coming for next year, um

[6:31] the new engine that's replacing engine 22, the pumper. So, just trying to get

[6:36] our uh equipment on order so we have everything

[6:39] here for that. Um I sent out the two different companies an equipment list

[6:44] that we want for that truck. And uh the one I got back I got it back from

[6:48] McQueen Emergency and from Hoosier Fire Equipment. Hoosier Fire Equipment was

[6:52] the most responsive with the equipment that we're looking for and having the um

[6:56] a quote for the stuff that we want. So, my request would be to have town council

[7:00] approve the purchase from Hoosier Fire for a total of $19,915.31.

[7:07] And uh I'd like to use the lit public safety funds for that.

[7:10] » I have one comment on it. I don't know what you think about it.

[7:14] Surely share it with you. Then what do you think? It still has that 25%

[7:18] restocking fee that we've talked about getting negotiated away. Is that

[7:23] something you think they'll do or is it not worth even talking about?

[7:26] » Um the 25% restocking fee is if we order something and we say, "No, we don't want

[7:31] this anymore. Take it back." That would be the only time we would get the 25%.

[7:35] If it's an error that they made, then they stand behind their their product.

[7:39] Um >> And you think it's fair for us to get

[7:41] charged 25% if you order? I'm just asking because it's not normal to me.

[7:45] » I mean, I I guess I don't I don't know. I

[7:49] » Okay. Well, I just >> Before, so quotes that we've had before,

[7:53] I've asked them to >> Take it out.

[7:55] » take that out and and change it and they did it one time and then they might

[7:59] not have done it on this one. I didn't catch that. I usually try to go through

[8:02] and catch that stuff. >> That's my only comment. Sorry. Don't

[8:04] know why they keep putting that in there. It seems unreasonable.

[8:07] » Mhm. >> Uh looks like stuff you're not likely to

[8:11] return anyway. >> Oh, exactly.

[8:12] » Yeah.

[8:16] Okay.

[8:19] » Is it something we can approve if they remove it?

[8:25] » And as long as it doesn't mess up what he's trying to do with it.

[8:28] I don't know how hard it is to They have done it in

[8:31] the past. >> They have, yeah.

[8:32] » And I don't know why they keep doing

[8:34] » Yeah, they've they've changed that in the past. However, the the stuff that's

[8:38] on this quote is all stuff that we need to have on that truck anyways.

[8:42] So, it's not like we're not going to return.

[8:45] » Let's see, if you don't use it on this truck, would you use it somewhere else?

[8:48] » Yeah, if if we can't put it on this truck, we can put it on one of the other

[8:50] trucks. >> And do we pay by credit card?

[8:54] Is there a No. Okay. >> No, we'll send a check.

[8:57] » I just saw that there was a 3% service fee.

[9:00] » Mhm. >> It could if there wasn't.

[9:02] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[9:13] » Yeah, as long as you're comfortable that there won't be any return stuff.

[9:19] » Uh yeah, I'm comfortable with it. I've I've dealt with them through Goshen Fire

[9:23] Department as well and um got some stuff that we bought through

[9:27] them ended up not fitting the equipment that we had. It was kind of a we didn't

[9:31] know that what we needed, they didn't know what we were looking for and they

[9:34] ended up returning it without the 25% restocking fee. So, they're

[9:39] again, it's on the contract, but we've been had a working relationship with

[9:42] them and haven't had any issues.

[9:47] But, I can always I mean, just ask him to to change that if we

[9:50] » I think I think going forward >> Mhm.

[9:52] » I think I think going forward, but just remind him that

[9:55] would be >> Okay.

[9:57] » that would be well. Make a motion to approve the quote from

[10:00] who's your fire equipment ink for $19,915.31.

[10:06] » Second. >> I have a motion and a second. All in

[10:09] favor? >> I.

[10:10] » I. Opposed? What else you got, Lyle?

[10:13] » Uh the second thing is a saw purchase from All Hands Fire Equipment. Uh if you

[10:18] remember earlier this year, we bought a cordless

[10:22] uh circular saw from them um to start

[10:25] phasing out our gas equipment. And so, this would be battery saws to add on to

[10:30] the new truck. Um instead of trying to buy any more gas equipment, we'll just

[10:34] continue the trend of buying battery tools. So, this is for two Husqvarna

[10:38] saws. One's a chainsaw, one's a um circular saw. So, I request council

[10:43] approve the quote from All Hands Fire Equipment for $4,899.80.

[10:49] Also paid from the public safety.

[10:53] » So >> Second.

[10:55] » I have a motion and a second. All in favor?

[10:57] » I. >> I.

[10:58] » And opposed?

[11:02] » So, that will complete most of the purchases that we need for that truck

[11:06] other than um some Milwaukee hand tools that we'll end up buying through Alpha.

[11:11] Um they give us a pretty good deal on on their cordless tools. And then also,

[11:15] just some radio equipment that we'll have to buy, which

[11:18] will be expensive, but um I'm working on getting quotes around for that now, so

[11:22] we can get that purchase started as well.

[11:23] » All right. Thank you. >> Anything else for me?

[11:26] » Thank you. >> No.

[11:27] » All right. >> Thank you.

[11:30] » Okay.

[11:37] I'm jumping all over. We're going to get you guys out, too, if

[11:41] you want um tax abatement.

[11:46] Unless you want to sit here through the whole list.

[11:48] » I can't, but I'm happy to go. So, hi. Uh I'm Sherry

[11:52] Johnson with the LaGrange County Economic Development Corporation.

[11:56] Um I'm happy to support a request for a 10-year tax abatement for Prime Property

[12:01] doing business as E&S Sales. E&S Sales has been a valued and growing

[12:06] partnership to Wana the Shipshewana business community, and they are now

[12:10] preparing a significant $10 million investment in their operations. This

[12:14] expansion represents not only a major financial commitment to Shipshewana, but

[12:18] also an important opportunity to strengthen the local economy, retain and

[12:23] create jobs, and support continued growth in Shipshewana's commercial

[12:26] sector. The project includes a 40 by 320 new

[12:30] retail store. The store will hire an additional 29 employees with wages of

[12:35] eight approximately $844,000. Uh the 10-year tax abatement is

[12:40] estimated to equate to $604,449

[12:45] of tax savings. Um I've also I Cherry requested a

[12:49] 5-year, too, so I've got that information on that. Um but Dwayne

[12:52] Chupp's here, and he can um he's going to just talk on the project just a

[12:56] little bit more just what they've got going, and then we can answer any

[12:59] questions.

[13:05] » Dwayne Chupp Dwayne Chupp with E&S. Um Good evening everybody. Uh

[13:11] uh just the project we got going I see uh you probably see what we got going

[13:15] and it's going up already, and we're definitely excited about it. We're going

[13:19] to be adding um new stuff. I think though the one of the

[13:24] biggest thing we're adding is is a eater replace, so it's a food

[13:29] beverage tax deal that I think will increase and that we used to have it in

[13:34] the old store then we had to take it out. We didn't Well, we did through the

[13:37] COVID and then we never replaced it, but we are putting in

[13:41] I'm sorry. I don't even know how much seating on top loft and

[13:45] have an area where people sit down, they can eat ice cream,

[13:49] eat a sandwich, salad, whatever. So, I think we're going to benefit there. Um

[13:54] I'm hoping to increase business um 35 to 40%.

[14:00] I need to. Uh so, of course, I'm hoping to bring

[14:06] more people in that way, you know, and uh I'm really pushing to get more of my

[14:10] uh I call it local tourists. Uh and when I say local tourists, I'm

[14:14] talking South Bend, Fort Wayne, and them area from Detroit, get more people

[14:20] like that to come down visit us and so

[14:24] um of course, uh

[14:26] the old ENS where the retail is now is going to be empty. Not sure, we haven't

[14:32] quite decided, but we are going to have a new

[14:35] not a new, but an empty retail space somewhere, either ENS or

[14:40] at Country Road. So, we're going to develop a new business again.

[14:45] We have like five things on the list to do and

[14:49] we're still on the arguing stage as owners what's going to happen, so um

[14:55] that's really all I got and fire away questions if you have any or

[14:59] you know, yeah.

[15:02] It would It would really help us to do I mean we've

[15:06] we've grown uh I I forget this. I think this is the sixth

[15:10] step we took in 39 years. Um started out small, went to the next.

[15:16] Now, it looks all chopped up, but now it is sometimes it would have been nice

[15:20] if we would have started where what we're putting up now, but

[15:24] that's often times when you start out way too big, you can't support it. So,

[15:29] I'm hoping there's no guarantees in this, guys.

[15:32] Anything can happen in business. But, we're going to give it all all we

[15:36] got. And uh

[15:39] So, it and and it is the biggest step that we ever took. And and and it is is

[15:45] the scariest step. I I'll be honest. It's it's not just like we sit back and

[15:48] relax because we got to work that out, but we have have a lot of family members

[15:53] that are very excited about it that are in the store right now already

[15:57] being part of it. So, I think it'll keep rolling and hope it

[16:02] will.

[16:06] » Here's my fear. >> Yep.

[16:07] » You know, I I really like you. I really appreciate you.

[16:10] » away. I >> Okay. But, my fear is

[16:13] all the things we have going on in the town right now. I've got a couple of

[16:15] fears. All the things we have going on in the town right now.

[16:18] Not knowing what the future holds for what we're going to get with property

[16:22] taxes. Not knowing what that's going to look like for us in the town.

[16:25] Um knowing that we are responsible for a

[16:28] lot of other taxing units when we make this decision.

[16:32] Um I trust you and I trust that you'll do

[16:35] everything you can to make this work. There's no question about that.

[16:39] But, it it worries me when we're looking at that big of a decision.

[16:43] And one of my my biggest concerns is I'm sitting here on this board looking at

[16:49] maybe some issues that we had 10 years ago when I wasn't on this board. And now

[16:53] I'm having to reap the consequences of the decisions that were made then. And

[16:57] so, looking 5 10 years down the road trying to make

[17:01] a decision for the people that are trying to

[17:04] develop this community. It's just there's a lot to think about. Um

[17:08] and so, I want to help and we're in a tight

[17:12] we're in a we're in a hard position because

[17:14] it's not someone that we don't trust standing in front of us. It's someone

[17:18] that we do trust. And so, um I don't know what I don't know when it comes to

[17:22] tax abatements, but I do want you to hear me say I'm struggling because I

[17:26] don't I want to help and yet I also am struggling to make that decision for the

[17:31] rest of our community. So,

[17:34] that's not a question, I guess. I'm sorry.

[17:37] » No, it's awesome here and I understand. >> Mhm.

[17:40] » Um you know, uh

[17:42] she proposed a 10 and a 5 and if we can even get help with a 5 or something,

[17:47] just uh

[17:50] would help us just uh to try and get the first couple years and

[17:54] so we can do this. I mean,

[17:58] » She said it really well. >> Yeah, you know

[18:00] » She said it really well and that's um some of the some of the same things I

[18:05] struggle with and that we talked about is I we know you guys. We We trust you

[18:10] as as business men and women. Um we don't know with Senate Bill 1

[18:18] how that's going to end up for us in two to three years. We might be looking at

[18:23] no property tax at all. And

[18:28] I I don't know. It's a hard place. It's a hard place.

[18:33] I know I know at least you won't do

[18:37] what the first company did that I was on a board and gave a tax abatement to,

[18:42] which was leave as soon as it was up. Um I I know that won't happen, but I

[18:49] it's it's a hard place. >> I think that with Senate Bill 1, we had

[18:53] a meeting with Sue this morning. You know, they're going back in the

[18:56] legislative session here shortly and there's an excess like in the state's

[19:00] budget. So, they're going to take a look at it and they've been hearing

[19:03] taxpayers. So, we don't I mean, the way it stands now is what we have to go by,

[19:07] but there's potential that things could change in this next session.

[19:11] But, if you don't get property taxes, there wouldn't be anything abatable

[19:15] » Mhm. >> in the future.

[19:17] » Right. >> Mhm.

[19:21] » The abatement would just basically go away.

[19:25] I- if >> Mhm.

[19:32] » My opinion would be such that and it and it isn't because I'm

[19:38] and this isn't a vote for me, but it is

[19:41] to be heard. I believe in supporting local businesses

[19:45] the best that we can. And I know that in the past, different boards have made

[19:49] decisions for companies coming from outside of the town

[19:54] bringing them into town. And I understand that. But, I also

[19:58] understand businesses that have invested heavily in

[20:03] this town. And what's their reward? I mean, yeah.

[20:07] Yeah, they're established, and yeah, they get

[20:11] the business. But, at the same time, is that our place as a town, you know,

[20:15] council to help them out in that sense where we can

[20:19] abate some? I believe it is because why why

[20:22] incentivize, you know, what if you guys chose to go just outside of town,

[20:27] and then there's no tax for us anyway? So, that's just my That's my stance.

[20:32] » And and and and I don't know if you remember was it 3 or 4 years ago now

[20:37] that you annexed us? I don't think one of us was up here

[20:42] fighting. We didn't come fight.

[20:47] I don't think I complained. And my taxes doubled.

[20:51] I was at 20,000. And the following year it was 40,000.

[20:56] I didn't come in to to any of you and say,

[21:01] or I didn't go get a lawyer and fight you guys not to annex me.

[21:07] So, I think that was a benefit, too. And I'm

[21:10] usually not Yeah, I've been in the last meetings, you know, and then and

[21:16] won't get off the subject and talk about the sewer. I I want to do I want to help

[21:19] it, you know. I I am in this community. I'm planning on staying.

[21:24] Hopefully in 10 years I'll slow down a little bit, but

[21:27] I I I have a lot of family and I have nephews and nieces that are in the

[21:31] business that are taking a good interest, have been with me for over 5

[21:35] years now, and they want me to take this to the next step and keep it growing.

[21:40] And and it it's it's going to be my my taxes on it if I look at it, it's going

[21:44] to be It's going to be huge. It's going to be

[21:47] huge. Um

[21:50] And it would it would really help me just to get

[21:54] first couple years behind us.

[21:59] And and and we we've been very successful. I'm not complaining.

[22:02] But as a business, we didn't have the cash sitting here

[22:06] waiting to do this project.

[22:12] Yes, I'm not a businessman enough to do it.

[22:15] So, and I understand your point of view. >> Well, there's there's just so many sides

[22:20] to it. Like generally, um abatements are, like he said, for new

[22:24] businesses coming in, um not for established businesses.

[22:30] Um I just heard you say that one of these

[22:34] remaining buildings is going to be a new business if you and your brothers can

[22:38] put bigger in about it, right? Um

[22:42] » We're going to We're going to put something in it. If we don't

[22:46] personally, some people that are out in the country

[22:49] will be. >> So,

[22:55] some benefits I see to to to doing the tax abatement is

[23:01] if we don't do it now, we we can't do it once it's established. So, you know,

[23:05] that's that's one thing that I I have to take into

[23:09] consideration. Um

[23:11] It's just a question for Kurt, and I think I know the answer to it, but let's

[23:14] say we agree to a 5-year tax abatement, and um

[23:19] they're they're in good standing, can we extend a tax abatement? No, it's only

[23:23] what we agree to now. >> Okay, were to sell, you can transfer the

[23:27] the abatement to the new company, but you can't extend it.

[23:32] Uh once you set it, cuz the basis set now,

[23:35] and whatever the increment is is what's abated.

[23:38] » Okay. And this wouldn't take effect until

[23:41] closing and everything is Is that correct?

[23:44] » take effect for next year's assessment, okay, which is in January.

[23:49] If >> Yeah, we'll do it.

[23:50] » By the way, we're hoping to move in, not open, but move in June 1st, okay? Is Is

[23:56] our goal. But there's a lot of winter

[24:00] and spring weather to come yet. >> So, we completely assessed in January.

[24:04] It's hard. >> So, um

[24:07] You have an idea on yet? >> I I don't I want to cut this short, but

[24:10] then I should have asked We were up all night. I mean, I do until I go to sleep.

[24:14] » Um is there anything legally that we could

[24:18] say, okay, let's look at a tax abatement at the cost of like like for the like

[24:23] for him to incur the cost for it would take like that it would take for us to

[24:27] go through the process to to create a tax abatement?

[24:29] » Well, that's a good question, and I have

[24:32] encouraged the council over the years to establish a filing fee with an ordinance

[24:37] like the county has, and the council's never done that. So, we can't do it

[24:42] um retroactively.

[24:45] They can donate if they want, but we can't require them. Now, what we can do

[24:49] is require them to as a condition of the abatement in terms

[24:53] of the agreement return a certain percentage of the savings and I don't

[24:58] know that happens elsewhere but it does

[25:01] happen at the county in some circumstances.

[25:04] » You can require 3 5% or so to be returned but that money has to be used

[25:09] for economic development purposes only has to have vents around it. So

[25:13] you can't condition it on them paying the cost. You could have had an

[25:18] ordinance that says they have to pay a fine if you hang the county's 20

[25:23] 2000 rate by 100 to help the for the cover the cost

[25:27] administering the doing it but we don't have anything in place to my knowledge

[25:31] here to do that. So we're kind of stuck with not being able to. So your

[25:36] flexibility is in the amount of years and the percentages and you have maximum

[25:40] flexibility to do whatever you They they've submitted a 10 and a 5 year and

[25:44] we looked at those numbers and but you can

[25:48] » But one more question then. Let's say they don't uphold those standards and we

[25:53] end up having to to let them off terminate that's better

[25:57] word for it. >> Okay. Yeah.

[25:59] » Um is there any language that we can put into that that that would be at the cost

[26:02] of since we it wouldn't be current but could we get an or I mean

[26:07] » One of the things that the abatement agreement talks about is if they breach

[26:10] the agreement then they have to pay for returning savings and everything like

[26:14] that but to get those unless they're willing to pay you got to go to court to

[26:18] enforce it. So that would be a really long way down the road. You basically

[26:22] have to sue them to get to get it. >> To get it. Okay.

[26:26] » Can I ask a procedural question? Is any If this were to go to vote does anyone

[26:30] have to abstain? >> Anybody that

[26:32] » We were going to have that discussion in the end.

[26:35] » Anybody that's uh net worth is uh

[26:40] can be affected positively by the statute says if their net worth is can

[26:44] increase as a result of the taxpayer getting the abatement.

[26:50] » Cuz if two have to abstain yeah three vote has to abstain.

[26:54] » Then there's no vote. >> So you couldn't you'd have to table it

[26:56] for next. That's my only thought. I was just wondering.

[26:58] » Yeah, that was that was a sidebar discussion Kurt and I had. Um

[27:02] » And I'm not saying anybody does. I'm saying that's the rule. Somebody's net

[27:05] worth can be increased by the taxpayer through So it is. Employment, other

[27:10] relationships. >> What What happens at this point is we

[27:13] don't vote on the abatement because

[27:19] that application should have come in before you broke ground, but we vote on

[27:24] sending the attorney in the direction of making that happen um by way of more

[27:31] documents and a public hearing. Just so you understand that part.

[27:36] » we have to go to public hearing and Shirley knows this is because it's

[27:38] already started. We don't have to do that if the taxpayer

[27:43] comes in before. So >> So, yeah.

[27:46] » Gives the public the right to if they come,

[27:50] speak. >> That happened because he wanted They

[27:53] wanted to stake it on it when I wanted to.

[27:55] » Mhm. Yeah, I would I was just letting you

[27:58] know that's like when when we vote, that's what we're voting on, not um not

[28:03] yes or no on the abatement. And then um also

[28:09] » be something Sorry, would that be something that the abs- abstain would

[28:12] need to happen on or not? >> I don't think that and I'm not saying

[28:16] anybody does or doesn't have any uh pecuniary interest is what the statute

[28:21] says. But if If somebody has a pecuniary interest in this taxpayer, they should

[28:25] not vote on any of these matters. Zero.

[28:30] Now, that is not something I enforce. That's

[28:34] something the State Ethics Commission would enforce if somebody would

[28:37] complain.

[28:42] » So, um I lost my train of thought.

[28:45] » It's okay. It's all right. Um >> I'm not hearing anything.

[28:50] » Yeah, there was one more thing I was going to say. It's lost. It's gone.

[28:53] It'll come back sometime tonight. >> I don't have a whole lot more than what

[28:57] everyone has already said. Um you were

[29:02] after meetings where we had to decide what to do with a new sewer plant.

[29:07] Um and not necessarily blaming the previous

[29:11] town council for for that, but that it played a part in it.

[29:16] And I certainly don't want to um

[29:20] be talked about 10 or 20 years from now on decisions that I made. Um

[29:26] whether if the decisions I make are

[29:30] um in majority or not. Um

[29:34] the bad part about this whole deal is

[29:39] we can't predict the future. Um we do know what you and your

[29:44] businesses bring to this town.

[29:47] Um

[29:50] unfortunately, I'm just really struggling with making the same

[29:54] decisions that the previous council did that now I

[29:58] got to deal with. Um whether it's right or wrong, I don't

[30:01] know yet. Um but that that's where I'm at right

[30:04] now. Before

[30:08] I would I was thrilled with You didn't apply for it

[30:13] a month ago or 2 months ago. So, we wouldn't have to deal with it cuz I

[30:16] didn't want to have to make this decision

[30:18] um

[30:20] » Which one did we file for? >> When?

[30:23] » Yeah.

[30:26] » I see the percentage. >> And that's now.

[30:29] » Yeah. >> I'm not

[30:30] » doing logistics but >> I mean, I guess this is stated

[30:33] for what period? Yeah, June 30th.

[30:36] » It's June 30th.

[30:41] That's my stuff, listen to me, man. I'll decide which way I'll vote when if

[30:47] we come to a vote then.

[30:50] » But we don't have to go with either of these.

[30:52] » No, these are good, helpful >> They're good, helpful

[30:56] » tools. Yeah.

[30:59] » But both >> So we could do a five year and

[31:04] » Yeah, you can do percentages and

[31:09] » Yeah. >> And probably

[31:12] » 80/60/40 >> If you want her to have her run

[31:16] different number scenarios, she'll probably would be happy to.

[31:20] » But right now what we need is a vote on whether or not

[31:25] to do it. >> I don't know if you have

[31:27] » Well, we might not have a quorum. Okay, so I guess

[31:37] » You have to have >> Here's the hard part of living in a

[31:39] small town. My husband's a drywall contractor.

[31:42] You're a general contractor. My husband does

[31:46] most of his work. So for that reason I'm going to not vote

[31:51] on this. >> Got you.

[31:52] » Because I don't look good in orange. And I you know, I don't have a lot of

[31:57] years left but I want to live them outside.

[32:01] » Sure. >> So yeah, for that for that reason I am

[32:05] not going to vote and you need three people to vote. So

[32:12] I don't know how you feel about orange. >> Well, good question. On my position is

[32:17] to give him direction on this part of it.

[32:25] My favoring and my my lean to on this is that I would give direction on a five

[32:31] year and to look at that and I would vote on

[32:34] it. >> You would vote on it?

[32:36] » I would. Cuz I have no

[32:38] » Going down. >> I have no

[32:42] definitely is on that one. Now, when it comes to actually approving

[32:46] it, then I would I would abstain myself from that.

[32:52] That's my stance.

[32:58] And we can wait and table it or whatever till Tim gets here, too, if we want, but

[33:02] or we can table it till the next meeting and have it

[33:04] » a position with three they can

[33:09] I mean So, here's here's the You could make a

[33:13] motion. It could get a second. It could get a vote. You could make a motion. It

[33:17] could die for a lack of second. Um

[33:21] I want to be very clear before I make a motion on anything.

[33:26] Exactly like all I would be doing if I were to make a motion would be to give

[33:31] Kurt direction to draft

[33:36] paperwork for a public hearing. It wouldn't be a public hearing that

[33:39] would present what we would vote on or it would be.

[33:42] » to have I have to know um what we're doing as far as 5, 10, 3,

[33:50] 6, whatever. So, what would it

[33:53] » So >> You don't have to know it, but then the

[33:55] problem's going to be you're going to debate that in the hearing, which is

[33:58] fine if you want to do that. If you want the hearing to be on Here's a 5-year

[34:03] abatement. Here's a 10-year abatement. We have those numbers. I can do that

[34:06] right now. If you want something different I I would need to be given

[34:10] some direction and some numbers because right now the only

[34:14] the two things I have are the ability to produce documents for a 5-year and the

[34:18] ability to produce documents for a 10-year based on these percentages,

[34:21] which also you don't have to honor. You can

[34:25] look at those any way you want, right? So,

[34:28] um they I'm just looking at it. The 5-year says 100% the first year, 80% the

[34:33] second year, 60%, 40%, 20%, and then zero. Of course, that's the end.

[34:38] You don't have to do that. You could do 100% the whole time.

[34:41] You could do 10% the whole time. Uh and the same is true with the

[34:46] a 10-year, which is 195, 80, 65, on and on.

[34:51] You could direct me to prepare, with her help, the numbers and the documents that

[34:56] would be a 10-year abatement at 10% a year, or heavy loaded at the front like

[35:01] it is historically set up and how this is set up.

[35:04] All I'm trying to say is >> You need to

[35:07] » the limit. It's infinite number of combinations if I don't get some

[35:10] direction. >> Mhm.

[35:12] I guess that's my question. Is Is the sky still limited with your with your

[35:16] ability to do anything with the decision that we make tonight as long as we give

[35:19] you direction? Cuz I don't I don't feel comfortable to say this is what I want

[35:22] right now. But I do feel comfortable saying I'm

[35:25] okay with us drafting up some options. Is what I'm trying to

[35:30] » And for the sake of discussion, are you 5-year or 10-year?

[35:34] » I 5-year. I mean, I'm not I'm not I don't want to look at 10-year. That's

[35:37] That's too long for me to to feel like I'm making that decision. But

[35:42] » If If you If you're comfortable directing me and if the vote passes to

[35:48] give me authority to draft the abatement agreement, the notices, the hearings

[35:52] that have to go in the paper, and all the uh resolutions that go along with

[35:56] that, uh based on this 5-year schedule, I can

[35:59] absolutely do that. If the 5-year schedule changes or your decision

[36:03] changes at the meeting, that's also okay. It just means we'll be another

[36:07] meeting where I have to get caught up, change things.

[36:10] The hearing doesn't have to be on a schedule, is what I'm trying to say. You

[36:14] can just have a hearing on are we going to grant abatement? It's just that if

[36:17] you want to be prepared so that you can sign something and approve something,

[36:20] I need direct. And they're going to need to sign an

[36:24] abatement agreement, but if I don't know what it is, I can't give it to him so

[36:27] it's a chicken or the egg. What presents the problem for me as a drafter is we're

[36:31] having a hearing on something because it's already built.

[36:35] Normally it's not that way. So that causes me dilemma because I would

[36:39] normally tell you don't have a hearing if you don't have a signed abatement

[36:41] agreement, but I can't give you a signed abatement agreement if I don't know what

[36:44] we're doing. So it it is the chicken or the egg. So you to a certain extent

[36:47] spend a lot of effort and time having a hearing on something you may never

[36:51] approve. If you're okay with that and you don't mind having me do that work.

[36:55] » Absolutely. I would do it clearly. >> Just not okay with either one right now.

[37:02] Like right this second. I feel like I'm a meeting too early right now.

[37:07] I mean how like we table it and have more dis like in the midst of before

[37:12] between the net between this meeting golly I can't talk between this meeting

[37:14] and the next meeting. Without a public hearing next meeting,

[37:18] we still have some flexibility to look at what our options are.

[37:21] » Mhm. In the middle of all that. >> Yes and you

[37:23] » come more prepared to schedule a hearing if we want to.

[37:25] » Right. And your hearing wouldn't happen just so you know at the next meeting

[37:28] because of the publication. We have one public Yeah. So it's going to be a month

[37:32] from >> Okay.

[37:33] » because we can't get it in the newspaper in time and all that. But

[37:37] we can have the hearing without knowing what the percentages are.

[37:41] It just delays the application of anything. In their case, it doesn't

[37:46] matter too much probably because the reality of it is is we're already

[37:51] doing it a little backwards even. Meaning we don't have the

[37:56] the building's already built to so you know, not built but it's all but

[38:00] » Here's where I'm at. I don't feel comfortable saying no.

[38:03] I don't feel comfortable saying yes right this second.

[38:07] I don't feel like I could walk away feeling

[38:10] » If you want to have a public hearing and not even

[38:14] have any preparation, not have them sign an abatement agreement you can also do

[38:19] that. The abatement agreement is something that we typically get from the

[38:23] taxpayer to commit to certain things before you spend the money on me doing

[38:28] all of this, right? If you don't If you're not worried about that, and you

[38:32] just want to put it out there, we can put it out there in a hearing, and you

[38:37] can have time to debate and cuss and discuss it all and go from there.

[38:42] » Nice. I'm going to say something. I don't know if I should say it, but I'm

[38:46] going to just so that you hear us, Dwayne. I I guess one of my concerns is

[38:51] too is paying for some of these things. So, just hear me say that, okay? Um

[38:57] paying for some of these things that we wouldn't have had to pay for

[39:00] had it been applied before for for the taxpayers. So, that's that's one of my

[39:04] concerns with saying let's go ahead and do the hearing. Um and without having an

[39:08] ordinance in place to have a filing fee, I feel like that could take care of some

[39:13] of that that concern um as far as using some of our taxpayers' money to

[39:20] to draft paperwork. >> I I'm I'm going to comment on the

[39:25] waving the nonconformity just for a second. We've done it before in other

[39:30] communities. It is something we try to avoid for this reason because you you

[39:34] don't know what you're going to get when you have

[39:37] the hearing, right? It's a But

[39:44] I mean, we technically the hearing is are you willing to waive noncompliance

[39:48] cuz they're not in compliance. Like the building before they have the abatement

[39:53] granted. It doesn't mean it's illegal. It just

[39:56] means in order to approve an abatement when the building's already started, you

[40:00] have to waive that irregularity. >> My concern is more just the money that

[40:05] we will be spending in order to do that. >> Yeah.

[40:12] So, so I don't know if I helped you. >> You did. You did. You answered my

[40:15] » you can authorize me to do so. >> Yeah. yeah, yeah.

[40:18] » And I'm ready to go. >> Welcome to the world where we just talk

[40:21] it all out here. >> Yeah, that's okay.

[40:23] It's >> It's good dialogue. Um

[40:28] » I would take one thing. I don't know.

[40:34] » I don't feel comfortable doing one >> And we can table it. Are you going to be

[40:37] here at the next meeting? >> Wait.

[40:41] Is it Thursday? >> Can you get it on a Wednesday again?

[40:45] » Um When's the next When's the next meeting

[40:49] you're here, Adam? I mean, I think it's going to take a full council.

[40:54] » Let me tell you one thing. >> Yes.

[40:56] » Yeah. I might be here on

[40:57] » I won't be here on the 9th. A sectional on the 23rd.

[41:03] » Depends on the draw.

[41:05] One of those is our budget adoption, so you'd have to be here.

[41:10] I will tell you in a second. >> I

[41:14] » Wednesday >> Not necessarily you, but there has to be

[41:18] a quorum. >> Yeah.

[41:19] » You'll notify me when you'll have that again.

[41:22] » As you can see, there's so much to consider.

[41:26] » Thank you. >> I will be Thank you. I will be here on

[41:28] the 23rd because that's fall break.

[41:31] » The 23rd of October? >> Do you want

[41:34] » Nick, will you be here on the 23rd of October?

[41:36] » I will be here. >> What?

[41:38] » I'll be here.

[41:40] Do you want to beg Cherry to give you additional scenarios? 3 years, 5 years,

[41:48] » Yes.

[41:51] I mean, I can just throw out all kinds of Yeah. I So, I

[41:54] mean, my biggest concerns are a different council making having to to

[41:58] absorb our decisions. Um so, 3 years would feel safer to me. I

[42:03] feel like someone would be on council in 3 years. We all have 3-year terms.

[42:07] Um but or 5 years. Something to something less risky for us

[42:14] but still helps. >> I think the bottom line too is the

[42:17] investment that they're putting in this building right here.

[42:22] » Mhm. Mhm.

[42:26] Mhm. >> coming in.

[42:27] So, to throw them something I think is appropriate in my opinion. Of course,

[42:31] I'm going to say that. But, I I understand where you're all sitting.

[42:37] » Which meeting are we going to I just want to write down we're going to

[42:40] re-look at the >> 23rd

[42:41] » 20 of October now. Okay. I'm going to try to get Yeah, I'm going

[42:45] to try >> For future reference, if we want to have

[42:47] Wednesday meetings or at all during Bible season.

[42:51] » I mean you know, we can look at changing it

[42:54] next year. >> I'm busy every Wednesday night.

[42:57] » But, Thursday, October 9th is your budget adoption.

[43:02] Be here, be square.

[43:05] We have to have enough a quorum, that's all I'm saying. Doesn't

[43:09] have to be everybody but there has to be a quorum. There has to be enough people

[43:12] » I remember last time I missed one of the meetings.

[43:15] » Yeah, and unfortunately that's one of them that the

[43:17] the can't do remotely cuz it's one of the

[43:20] exceptions. >> They can't vote remotely on budget.

[43:23] » Okay. >> They can't either on tax abatement.

[43:25] » Could you move meetings up? Like to move it forward

[43:28] » set in for this for the budget is set in stone or we start over with a new

[43:33] hearing and everything.

[43:35] » Okay. Okay. >> And we don't have enough time.

[43:39] » So, as a result of that we will revisit this

[43:43] October 23rd. And Todd, will you

[43:48] Do you feel like you can put a note in there so it

[43:50] it's on the agenda. Okay. >> Let me make sure

[43:53] sure he gets they all have them. >> Yeah.

[43:56] » See the numbers. >> Yeah.

[43:58] » So, once she gets it to you >> Yeah.

[44:01] What are you going to get? >> A five year a different five year?

[44:05] » A different >> three and five.

[44:06] » It doesn't sound like anything over five. But I don't think since three is

[44:10] also that might make sense. But if you all have any ideas like what

[44:15] you're kind of thinking, I mean we we can

[44:18] » Sherry, what we're thinking is a no. It's so

[44:26] Make it palatable. If you've got something.

[44:30] » Here's Here's my biggest concern. Is that we are going to be like

[44:35] the the taxes that are not yet incurred because it's

[44:39] not built yet. That's money that you don't have right now. My concern is the

[44:43] money that we will be spending in order to get that to pass.

[44:47] And then the manpower that it's going to take to make sure that it's being

[44:50] checked up on throughout the next and that's my

[44:53] concern. If Terry retires in two years, what are we going to have in place to

[44:57] make sure that this continues to follow through? Um I don't want to be spending

[45:01] any more money of the taxpayers' money to make sure that this is done. Um

[45:08] » It's It's also not like you're losing any money

[45:13] because I didn't If I wouldn't be doing this, we'd be

[45:17] there. So it's not like It's not like It's another thing that you

[45:23] I pay for the water bill. I pay for my sewer. I pay for

[45:27] um the storm waters and all that. I pay for that. So it's not me building a new

[45:31] building is not costing you more money. So if it wouldn't be there, you wouldn't

[45:36] even be getting this money anyway. So what I'm trying to is is

[45:40] This says $10 million for a building. I'll promise you we'll spend $15

[45:45] million.

[45:47] » Is there a price tag that um could recover your costs?

[45:51] That's the Yeah. That's my concern.

[45:55] » I I mean I never know and the 2,500 is what we've done at the county and it's

[46:00] always really done a good job of covering most of it without a hearing

[46:04] without a waiver. So you just factored I don't even know I haven't done them for

[46:08] so long. I don't know the last time I did a waiver hearing in the county is

[46:11] probably 15 years ago. >> We just did one for a news property and

[46:16] we didn't did you do a hearing for that that take that away or not?

[46:19] » No, we did not take it they did not well that one was terminated.

[46:24] » Terminated yeah. >> That was termination.

[46:26] » Okay. >> Waiver hearing is something where

[46:29] person >> Yeah, I would think yeah.

[46:31] » Since I I mean I've done one at the county level but it's probably been 15

[46:35] years. >> Yeah, it's before my

[46:37] » Yeah. Just not being very nice to me.

[46:43] » Can you bill us at the same rate for 15? >> If you want to pay what they pay me

[46:48] annually. >> I mean I would have I would be sitting

[46:51] here in the back saying hey I'll pay for or whatever.

[46:54] » Yeah, he can say whatever he wants he just can't condition

[46:58] it. >> Money that's not here already and we can

[47:01] do that in writing.

[47:04] » One thing that might help you just for fun is to think about what percentage

[47:08] savings you they were willing to offer and

[47:11] we they've never had experience. >> We've talked about that yeah uh-huh.

[47:16] A percentage a percentage back that would go into economic development.

[47:20] » We do that with all of them we have now but it was primarily because the county

[47:25] » collected >> Collect county collected it and gave it

[47:27] back to us. So.

[47:34] » Is is that direction or a lack of direction?

[47:36] » It's some direction yes. >> Things that could be refined.

[47:42] » Yeah, I wish I could have another discussion after I throw it out there

[47:45] and just before the hearing though like so if there's any more changes

[47:49] you know that I can continue to >> To be clear we're doing a hearing on the

[47:53] 20th. >> Yeah, because the 23rd is this dialogue

[47:56] then if they approve me they'll have a public hearing.

[47:59] » So, we'll talk about it some more then. Yeah.

[48:03] » It would be nice if we're going to do it to have it done before January 1 because

[48:07] I want the county to see it because otherwise they'll be mad.

[48:10] » And I can talk it to death. I just can't vote on it.

[48:14] I could, but >> And you'll have a bigger pool.

[48:16] » Yeah. There There will be five people here then,

[48:20] which is which is why we're looking at the dates.

[48:24] Thank you. I mean, thank you for listening and thank you for

[48:27] » And hear me want to say like we wouldn't be discussing this if we didn't trust

[48:30] you. If you were a non a not a trustworthy business owner, we would be

[48:33] like No. So, yeah.

[48:36] We appreciate it. Yeah. >> Should that be your

[48:40] meeting then or will I find out about it or

[48:42] » The 23rd. >> If I were you, I would

[48:46] » I would be here because we have another council member that's not here. So,

[48:51] » The next one's October 23rd. >> October 23rd.

[48:54] » Is there a council meeting in between there?

[48:57] » Yes. I won't I won't >> She won't even be here.

[49:00] » But anything you get to them, they can get to them

[49:03] before then.

[49:07] » Sometimes tax abatements really aren't like this, are they?

[49:11] » Nobody ever talks about anything.

[49:16] » I You know, we've we've had a lot of stuff thrown at us this year for what

[49:20] councils have done in the past and we've been we've been the one sitting here

[49:24] with the angry mob. So, um we just don't want to put that out there for anybody

[49:31] else to have to go through it.

[49:35] Thank you. Thanks.

[49:46] Do you have to go? >> No.

[49:47] » No. Do you have something? >> This came up in an HSA. I don't know if

[49:51] you guys want to discuss it or not, but since he left you might want to push it

[49:54] off till everybody's here. >> Yeah.

[49:57] We'll table that. Where did he go?

[50:01] » He went to the NJHS inductions. >> Oh, okay.

[50:08] Do you guys have to go to that, too? >> I mean, I told Greg that if we weren't

[50:10] done yet it's >> Okay.

[50:13] » Sorry. >> It's urgent.

[50:15] » Sorry. >> It's okay.

[50:17] » Let's not. >> Okay. I get to go to our soccer game

[50:20] tomorrow. We can do a little bit today. >> Okay.

[50:24] All right. What's

[50:28] Like if we hurried, could you get there? >> No.

[50:31] » No, all right. >> Well, I mean it starts at 6:00 and it's

[50:34] probably over at 6:20.

[50:38] » Okay, let's move back up. Approval of past

[50:42] » memorandum. >> Do we have just one?

[50:44] » Mhm, the last meeting. >> In the last meeting.

[51:04] » It looks right to me.

[51:08] » Looks good to me, too. >> Like to I'll make a motion to approve

[51:13] the memorandum from September 11th, 2025.

[51:21] » A second. >> I have a motion and a second. All in

[51:23] favor? >> Aye.

[51:24] » Aye. Opposed?

[51:28] We're in a hurry. Quick annexation report.

[51:31] » We're working on it. >> It's all done.

[51:36] » We're working on it. No updates, but I should have some updates at the next

[51:40] meeting. Uh I think probably during staff.

[51:43] Probably no decisions, but I think during staff we'll probably at least

[51:47] have a 5 to 15 minute discussion on what we got done today.

[51:51] » All right. >> I think beyond that it will probably

[51:53] just be sitting on it for a little bit or maybe a motion for it to take the

[51:58] next step. >> I heard him say something about being

[52:02] annexed a few years ago and that has not happened since I've been on the board.

[52:05] » That was >> That was something else. Yeah.

[52:08] » No, I think it wasn't in that that south area a lot

[52:11] » Yeah, I don't know for sure. >> Okay.

[52:13] » No, I think we talked about that and 2013

[52:16] » It was where we had the pipe extended to the the easement.

[52:19] » Yeah. >> But he's down in that area.

[52:21] » It was in 2013. >> I think it

[52:24] » after whatever that magic date was. >> No.

[52:27] » So he >> It wasn't a couple years ago.

[52:30] » I think it was that entire area down there.

[52:32] » No, that whole area down there. >> It was the area with the news viewers.

[52:36] » Everything about it >> because of the law change.

[52:39] » Oh, yeah. >> That's the story of this.

[52:42] » All right.

[52:45] Um pay app, that's you? >> I got to pull them up quick.

[52:49] Do they have electronic or that is not? >> Uh yes.

[52:52] » Okay. >> It's not as fancy as Bennett's, but it's

[52:55] All right, I'll just go real quick. This is for the wastewater treatment plant

[52:59] project A. This is pay application number two.

[53:03] This is basically for um 25% so a little bit of mobilization,

[53:08] job trailer, permits, insurance. Uh they have mobilized. They are doing

[53:12] dewatering. Uh they basically started uh the majority of the construction this

[53:17] past week. So with that this pay application's for

[53:20] $105,206 and we would recommend this be approved

[53:25] by council and move to tab to move uh this to SRF for a disbursement request.

[53:31] » So moved. >> The motion in a second. All in favor?

[53:35] » I. >> I. Opposed?

[53:42] That's it. That's it. That's all you got?

[53:46] Oh my goodness.

[53:50] You got to be the only man that's ever listened to me.

[53:57] I tried so hard to get my husband I told I told Benny I was like

[54:03] we should like just jump in that car and go to Nashville and catch the Titans

[54:08] Colts game. >> Didn't you go to that?

[54:10] » No. He doesn't He's He's not a spur of the

[54:13] moment kind of person. It's the only way to live, isn't it, Nick?

[54:18] » I disagree. >> We are

[54:20] We are like opposites on everything. It's crazy. Um construction updates

[54:28] Terry's not here, but I will tell you if you look in your council meeting folders

[54:34] » We didn't find it. >> at the top of 2025

[54:38] is construction update pictures. >> Okay.

[54:42] This folder has taken a beating in the past

[54:46] year or two. >> So

[54:48] » missing a whole bunch of council meetings.

[54:49] » Oh, I moved them all under river so we didn't lose any.

[54:52] » Like you don't have to necessarily look at them now, but I'm just telling you

[54:55] they're there. If There's your construction update. There's pictures on

[54:58] there. >> phone. He needs a new camera.

[55:04] » Or he needs to learn how to like clean the lens on it.

[55:08] He probably doesn't clean the lens ever. HSA we've tabled claims.

[55:14] » Uh the claims that I sent you totaled $163,461.96.

[55:19] Uh we added three since yesterday and I don't know if anybody saw those.

[55:24] » those. >> Two were from Axon for police

[55:26] department. Uh one was one they sent us from April.

[55:31] There was a clerical error on the police department and he said

[55:35] they marked it as paid, but it wasn't actually paid so they sent it to them

[55:38] and with this current one they had and the other the second one was uh

[55:43] their new tasers that were approved. And the

[55:47] third one was a DLZ invoice that apparently I just didn't check mark in

[55:51] when I was doing all the others.

[55:56] And then I highlighted all the ACHs so you wouldn't get

[56:00] » I saw that. I appreciate that. Thank you.

[56:03] So I didn't have my panic button hit. >> Yeah.

[56:09] » What is our new total? >> Uh 1 163,461

[56:15] dollars and 96 cents.

[56:36] Uh while you're looking at that, I'll say the capital asset planning

[56:41] we came up with a an idea.

[56:44] Um I called him. Sally and I think that 110,000 we could

[56:48] easily whittle down to at least 75,000 by doing part of that in-house

[56:54] with their guidance and he made the comment that on projects like that they

[56:59] understand budget requirements. If they were to come in and do that and finish

[57:03] it by the end of the year, they would split it up into three budgets. They

[57:08] give us a document said you can charge a third of it this year, a third of it

[57:13] the next year's budget, and a third of it the next year's budget if you so want

[57:16] to do that. He said they do that with their municipal clients.

[57:19] So that's our thought process. We're just giving you an update. We

[57:22] don't have anything in stone yet. >> Okay.

[57:25] » We're going to go down that road and get more info from him if that's acceptable.

[57:29] » I mean, as long as you and Sally have time to do it in house and it doesn't

[57:36] step back any of the other things that would annoy state board of accounts

[57:40] because What I say that should be first. >> There's a number of things we think we

[57:45] could take a two days and go through with our list and say these things don't

[57:49] need to be kept or scanned. So they're going to go into

[57:53] a pile and once we get audited well, all that stuff down there has been audited.

[57:57] We can actually have that set for destruction. So we're not going to pay

[58:00] them to go through it. We're not going to pay them to scan it. We're not going

[58:02] to if we don't have to keep it, we're not going to keep it.

[58:05] But he identified 20 or 30 boxes of that would fall into

[58:11] » So we're going to have a big >> fun fun

[58:14] » truck come in with a scanner and >> They would come in with a truck and take

[58:18] everything, scan it. >> shredder

[58:20] » And then they would once the county they could bring it back

[58:24] and they can shred it or they'll just shred it for us per whatever the county

[58:28] guidelines are that we get approved first. And give us documentation on it,

[58:32] but that's further down the road type thing.

[58:36] » Has this ever been done before? >> No.

[58:38] » So this is it. >> You're not here.

[58:40] » new 70,000 >> We have stuff Yeah, we have stuff going

[58:43] back to the early 80s. >> 70s

[58:46] » Um I asked >> found a speeding ticket in one of the

[58:49] boxes that was given to Jake when he was 7 years old by Scott Stewart.

[58:54] on his bicycle >> I

[58:57] spoke to the county clerk. They use them and they're happy with it. I the county

[59:01] books office I'm talking to clerk tomorrow. They're happy. They use them.

[59:05] They're working on stuff right now. She said they actually are using them now or

[59:09] they're going back in there scanning everything from the 1800s that they have

[59:14] in the county. They're that far back. >> Nice.

[59:17] » So that's just an update. We don't have anything actionable.

[59:21] » claims I'm going to make a motion to approve

[59:25] the claims totaling 1,000 100,060 163,461.96.

[59:34] Excuse me. >> Can you repeat that, please?

[59:35] » Yeah. >> Which part?

[59:39] » I second. >> It's a motion and a second. All in

[59:42] favor? I. Opposed?

[59:45] You guys are great. Adjustments?

[59:49] » Oh, you know what? That was 4.4. I said the wrong thing, but

[59:54] Um I want to touch Can I touch on the capital asset planning?

[59:57] » Yes. >> The capital asset planning, there are

[1:00:00] two agreements that we sign. And then

[1:00:04] talking to Chris, I was like, you know, we've used this person for all eternity.

[1:00:09] I don't know if they've ever been looked over by Kurt, so she thought it would be

[1:00:13] prudent to have Kurt look it over. So, we're getting ready to start doing our

[1:00:16] capital asset planning. So, we were looking for

[1:00:19] um authorization to approve the two

[1:00:26] What are they called? Engagement letters with

[1:00:29] um cap- the capital asset consultants for legal review and allowing Chris to

[1:00:36] sign outside of a meeting. They're exactly the same as they were

[1:00:40] last year and the year before and the year before.

[1:00:42] Uh like word for word.

[1:00:45] » Okay. Sorry. >> So moved.

[1:00:48] » I second. >> Have a motion and a second. All in

[1:00:50] favor? >> I.

[1:00:51] » I. >> I. Opposed?

[1:01:00] » I was thinking it.

[1:01:06] » Uh the adjustments. Adjustment I'm going to go over a couple

[1:01:10] on Sally May. I'll go over the ones I know.

[1:01:13] Uh adjustment A. Uh this person has two parcels. Uh it

[1:01:19] was combined by by assessor in 2020 into one parcel. Nobody

[1:01:23] notified us or the um parcel owner. So, we've been charging

[1:01:28] them stormwater for the non-existent parcel since June of 2020.

[1:01:32] So, if we take that times the number of months that he's already paid, he has

[1:01:36] overpaid $3,194.73.

[1:01:40] So, that would be a credit going back to his account.

[1:01:43] Um B is a person that you gave a credit to

[1:01:48] uh when we found an error in the type of meter they had.

[1:01:52] In the interim, while we approved and applied the credit, bills were run

[1:01:56] during the same time, and it also it it billed at the incorrect rate

[1:02:01] that last month as well. So, that $453 credit and A6 credit is

[1:02:07] billed at the wrong rate. We just didn't quite catch it cuz it was

[1:02:11] the same week as the um adjustment.

[1:02:15] » Not really a credit. It's offsetting the the if you look below, it's offsetting

[1:02:20] the $453.86 that was billed. So, it's really net to zero, and then

[1:02:24] the new bill amount is $58.15. >> She's the brains of this operation.

[1:02:32] Okay. >> But, that will also be credited because

[1:02:35] of >> Some of the credit going on. Okay.

[1:02:40] » It's just so hurtful, those big numbers. I don't remember C.

[1:02:46] » You know what? Um this is um the restaurant that was not paying the

[1:02:50] correct stormwater. >> Mhm.

[1:02:52] » Yeah, they uh approached us and wanted to know what a credit was cuz they heard

[1:02:56] somebody else had a credit. They wanted us to review their account. So, we

[1:03:00] reviewed their account, and we found that they owed us an additional $1,334

[1:03:05] because there was a a billing error in their account that has now been

[1:03:08] corrected. Uh D

[1:03:14] Uh D is someone that said they didn't

[1:03:19] receive their bill. Now that they know what their bill is,

[1:03:22] they want to know if the late fees could come off.

[1:03:29] E is a gentleman who

[1:03:34] He was being billed in the old storm water rate

[1:03:40] of $44 for his parcel. And then in 2021,

[1:03:45] it was changed to residential parcel fee of $8. He had overpaid up until 23, and

[1:03:51] we issued him credits. And he asked us to review his account

[1:03:57] because he thought there was an additional credit, and when we did

[1:04:00] we had to get into the old system and pull a bunch of records, and we owe him

[1:04:05] an additional $352.22

[1:04:09] from 2021 that he hasn't been credited for yet.

[1:04:13] He brought it up because his credits were running out, and he was thinking

[1:04:15] they were going to last a little longer. So, that's the part that didn't get

[1:04:18] calculated yet. From the old two-storm system.

[1:04:27] » Do we go back forever on these? >> Uh

[1:04:32] our running

[1:04:34] » Like if somebody shows up and they want 20 years worth of credits, you know what

[1:04:38] I mean? >> Our understanding is if they

[1:04:41] pay us we owe them.

[1:04:46] If we pay them, we only go back two years.

[1:04:52] But if they pay us, it's their money, and we shouldn't charge them, so we owe

[1:04:55] them their money. But in the reverse, we only go two

[1:04:58] years. That's been the direction.

[1:05:01] » So, there's What if we can't prove or they can't prove? Like it's just

[1:05:04] hearsay. I mean, obviously we don't have anything. When does it become hearsay?

[1:05:09] » We have to prove it with numbers and reports, or when we get audited the

[1:05:13] count the state board will make me reimburse the town whatever we did.

[1:05:17] So we got lots of paperwork cuz I'm not going to pay for it. Yeah.

[1:05:24] » Okay, so you need these >> What about that?

[1:05:26] » Do we do approved but

[1:05:30] Can we approve A, B, C and D? >> Who asked for that if you want?

[1:05:34] » A and >> You can approve them all.

[1:05:35] » A and E. >> Right. The only question is are you

[1:05:38] including D?

[1:05:43] » You would not.

[1:05:47] And I'm just one and three. >> I also would not

[1:05:52] because you can't blame us for the meter.

[1:05:54] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:05:55] » Unfortunately. >> I I think it pretty much states that in

[1:05:58] the ordinance that it's your bill whether you receive it or not.

[1:06:01] We were under the impression they mailed the check and we hadn't received it yet

[1:06:04] when we prepared this, but >> Okay.

[1:06:08] » Um

[1:06:12] And F has to do with a compound meter issue that we were having

[1:06:15] as described and we were going to be replacing it with a new meter to correct

[1:06:19] it. Um

[1:06:23] I don't know how much more you want to go into that.

[1:06:25] » I was going to say, is that all we have to

[1:06:27] approve is the new meter or do we need to look at

[1:06:31] » You would have to look >> Okay.

[1:06:33] » Look at the adjustments and we would want direction

[1:06:36] on

[1:06:39] how to do it. Our our understanding is that when we

[1:06:44] add the second meter that wasn't billing, we would charge them the

[1:06:47] minimum for every month. And then once it gets to the end of the

[1:06:52] time period, if there's anything left, we would add it on.

[1:06:57] Just for that month cuz we don't have any way of showing where it is.

[1:07:01] » So we can have >> So the minimum for water is 3,000

[1:07:04] gallons. The minimum for waste water is zero.

[1:07:09] So F the last month we would charge all the wastewater.

[1:07:13] I mean, it wouldn't matter if you charged it the first month or the last

[1:07:15] month. It's always by exact usage. >> How much could that potentially be?

[1:07:21] » What would be the total

[1:07:30] » 2 * 24 add two zeros.

[1:07:34] Put that into sixes and it should work, but

[1:07:37] um >> What did she just say?

[1:07:41] » Did you follow >> I can do math if you Yeah.

[1:07:43] » It could be probably around 48.

[1:07:48] It could be a little over 20,000, couldn't it?

[1:07:53] » So, we How about we would one direction on

[1:07:57] Are you okay with the way we want to bill it and we'll bring you the number

[1:07:59] back? >> Yeah, I would like

[1:08:02] » Yeah. >> So, then the only thing would be on A,

[1:08:05] B, C, D, and E. >> I think we should open the stalls at

[1:08:08] that time. Giving them options to I mean, are we

[1:08:11] going to expect them to just bring us a check? You know what I mean?

[1:08:14] » Yeah. >> To give them some grace, I feel like.

[1:08:16] » Oh. >> Yeah.

[1:08:18] » And think about it, too. I almost would like to see bill them up front.

[1:08:23] » Mhm. >> Uh because

[1:08:26] once again, years pass, time goes on, people forget, people change. Seems to

[1:08:31] me if you force the issue up front, by not if we have a problem immediately, we

[1:08:34] can probably that issue in the future.

[1:08:37] » Mhm. >> Just my thought.

[1:08:39] » Absolutely. >> And it's going to bring that to a head

[1:08:42] right now. >> Yeah.

[1:08:46] » They'll have to be just

[1:08:50] » All right, I make a motion to approve A, B, C,

[1:08:54] E as approved, but the non-review.

[1:09:01] Or as I was saying, not approved. Words are hard today.

[1:09:05] » I second. >> Have a motion and a second. All in

[1:09:08] favor. >> I.

[1:09:09] » I. >> I. Opposed.

[1:09:16] » We're getting somewhere. >> So you have direction on E?

[1:09:20] » Yeah, F. Yes.

[1:09:22] » F. >> F.

[1:09:23] » F. >> That's what I meant.

[1:09:26] » Okay. What else you got, Ted?

[1:09:30] » I don't think anything. >> You have a cleaning contract.

[1:09:33] » Oh, we have a cleaning contract. What do I have to do about

[1:09:36] » Motion to approve, right? >> Motion uh sure.

[1:09:39] We have a signed cleaning contract. Terry really wants them to start Monday.

[1:09:43] » Cuz he's starting to clean in the back. >> He is all over it.

[1:09:46] He just said done. I'm like you just gave it to me like an hour ago.

[1:09:50] » Yeah, all right. Make a motion to approve

[1:09:53] the cleaning contract. As of today as of okay.

[1:10:00] » Can I look at it or or see it or something before? I mean no offense

[1:10:04] here. >> Does he take Do you have it?

[1:10:06] » I'll just give it to you. >> I'm going to take my

[1:10:08] » Or just give me the number or something.

[1:10:11] » Uh it's based on the quote. $750 per for the quote you approved. $750 a week.

[1:10:17] » Oh, for that >> Yeah.

[1:10:19] » I forgot about the company. >> I don't need any more, Kurt.

[1:10:23] » You're welcome to I mean whatever. >> I second

[1:10:27] » Okay, have a motion and a second. All in favor. I. I.

[1:10:31] Opposed. >> I slept

[1:10:33] » a couple >> It's okay. Yeah, take it with you.

[1:10:36] » That's a five or an eight. >> Uh that's an eight.

[1:10:38] » Okay. It's all right. That's what I thought it

[1:10:41] was. That's what I thought it was. Um

[1:10:45] I have with my pile here a job description for services support

[1:10:50] three for streets. So um

[1:10:54] » We had a service and support three for but it was wastewater base.

[1:10:59] So, Terry asked me to convert it to streets and I just did it based off the

[1:11:03] streets. But,

[1:11:06] um we've been we've always had Kurt review

[1:11:10] them after we did them because there's always stuff that

[1:11:13] » Did you send it to him? >> I just gave it to him.

[1:11:15] » Okay. All right. >> And Terry said yeah, he thought it'd be

[1:11:18] prudent for him to review it. >> Okay.

[1:11:20] » So, he would like to publicize that. So, we were looking to authorization to

[1:11:26] approve that pending legal review. >> Okay.

[1:11:31] » And a second.

[1:11:36] And a loop. >> A second.

[1:11:38] A motion and a second. All in favor. >> I.

[1:11:40] » I. Opposed. Get down here.

[1:11:44] I feel it coming.

[1:11:47] I. Nick. Anything else?

[1:11:50] Ted. >> Oh, I didn't know about that one, but I

[1:11:53] hope there's nothing else. >> Mhm.

[1:11:55] Kurt. >> Uh all I have is to follow up with

[1:11:58] Terry's comment about needing the appointment of two appraisers. If you

[1:12:02] want to for the property that you're considering selling up by the water

[1:12:05] tower that uh Casey did the survey on. And

[1:12:10] I don't know for sure who we would use, but the last time we used

[1:12:14] Stanner and Bulbul. So, if they're still able and willing

[1:12:18] and reasonable, I would just call them again. So, but if not, I would find

[1:12:23] somebody else too or if you know somebody that you want who's tell me,

[1:12:25] but motion to authorize me to order two secure two appraisals for that

[1:12:31] property is what I'm proposing. >> So moved and a

[1:12:35] » Second. I have a motion and a second. All in favor.

[1:12:38] » I. >> I. Opposed.

[1:12:41] » I sir. >> You I opposed.

[1:12:44] I heard you. >> That was all. Did you have anything

[1:12:47] else?

[1:12:52] No. No.

[1:12:54] Fire Chief job is live.

[1:12:59] We have

[1:13:03] not a lot of people lining up for it yet, but maybe they don't know. It's on

[1:13:06] Indeed, right? >> Glassdoor and Indeed, I think.

[1:13:11] » Is it on our website? >> It is on our website if you click on it

[1:13:14] and then at the top where it says employment. Yeah.

[1:13:16] » So.

[1:13:20] We can get together when we have some applicants for interviews.

[1:13:25] So, figure out um cuz we had talked us three and then um

[1:13:30] maybe a couple firefighters, so if you can identify who they are.

[1:13:35] All right. Perfect. Okay.

[1:13:40] Make a motion to adjourn.

[1:13:44] » I second. >> So, you looked at me like you were going

[1:13:46] to have a date. >> You can second motion.

[1:13:50] » I'll hear >> I.

[1:13:51] » I oppose. I can and I could make motions, too, but I always feel like it

[1:13:56] looks like I'm trying to direct the meeting and the outcome if I do, so

[1:14:01] I sit here and >> But there's only three of us. You can

[1:14:03] bite. >> So.

[1:14:07] I I know there have been other people that sat here and drove it home, but I'm

2025/09/24 Shipshewana Town Council Meeting

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