[0:01] a review and introduction what it's about. We'd like to do that

[0:03] uninterrupted just let them go through and completed and then after that we'll

[0:08] have a couple guidelines and get >> text

[0:15] recorded.

[0:22] » Good evening everyone. Uh my name is Todd Ziggler. Uh appreciate you coming

[0:26] out tonight. Some of you folks I may have already talked to. I know we got

[0:29] several phone calls. Appreciate that as well. I'm going to go through I'm not

[0:34] going to bore you all night long. I could talk about this for quite a while,

[0:37] but I'll try to sum it up maybe in about 10 minutes just to give you an overview

[0:42] of how we got to where we are tonight. Okay.

[0:46] All right. So, um first thing is uh zoning districts. Uh Shrewsbury Township

[0:52] has uh what do we got here? 2 4 6 eight different zoning districts. uh from

[0:58] rural residential to rural residential receiving districts, a district,

[1:02] commercial, interchange, industrial. I know this map isn't the greatest to to

[1:07] see from, and I'm going to jump back and forth here to see my screen a little

[1:11] better. Um, but the particular properties we're

[1:16] talking about resoning tonight, if you can see on the screen there where my

[1:20] cursor is moving, um, right in here, this is where we're

[1:25] talking about tonight. This of course is the overall township as a whole which is

[1:30] almost 30 square miles. Uh for those that aren't aware,

[1:34] Shrewsbury Township actually surrounds New Freedom Burough, Railroad Burough,

[1:38] Glenrock Burrow, and Shrewsbury Burrow. So the areas that you see with the white

[1:43] background here, this is Glenn Rock Burough, this is Shrewsbury Burrow, this

[1:49] is Railroad Burrow right here, and then this is New Freedom Burrow. Um so what

[1:54] you see as far as the industrial is just smaller area which is just north of

[1:59] where we're located right now. Uh this side of uh 80 between 83 and the trail.

[2:06] This section right here we're sitting in right now is this section right here

[2:10] which is a commercial. We have a couple of other little commercial areas down in

[2:15] here around 851 exit 4 interchange. uh where you see the yellow which is I

[2:23] imagine most of you are probably from I'm guessing Strawberry Fields maybe

[2:27] Hamilton's Overlook. Strawberry Fields is suburban residential.

[2:33] Hamilton's Overlook is rural residential receiving and I'll explain what those

[2:37] are differently the difference between those as we go on. Um the uh suburban

[2:44] residential receiving rural residential receiving the suburban residential

[2:49] receiving is these orange areas here which as you can see is not very much.

[2:56] Um then the rural residential receiving this area here is what we know as

[3:02] Hamilton's overlook. That's rural residential receiving and

[3:07] that's the areas we're talking about now possibly reszoning. That's currently

[3:11] rural residential receiving. And then of course as you can see

[3:15] everything else it's green is all agricultural zones.

[3:24] Now the the differences mostly between rural residential receiving and suburban

[3:29] residential receiving. Um, both of those are designed to receive

[3:36] development rights from the agricultural zoning district. So, in order to develop

[3:41] anything in the receiving district, you have to purchase development rights from

[3:45] a land owner in the agricultural district. Without those, you can't do

[3:50] any development in a receiving district. That's in both zones. Um

[3:56] rural residential is a lower density. Suburban residential is a medium to a

[4:03] higher density. Now the rural residential you can also

[4:08] um institutional facilities are also permitted. They are not in the suburban

[4:13] residential. is receiving then with the rural residential

[4:19] which again is the area we're talking about tonight and also Hamilton's

[4:23] overlook those areas can be developed with on lot

[4:27] water wells and on lot septic in the suburban residential you need to have

[4:33] public water and public sewer you can't do on lot

[4:39] one of the challenges right now for suburban residential receiving is

[4:43] there's absolutely absolutely no sewer capacity available.

[4:47] So, suburban residential, you can't develop today if they want to

[4:52] unless a developer comes in and has enough money and is willing to upgrade

[4:57] the sewer plant. That's the only way they're going to get sewer capacity. Not

[5:01] saying it can't happen, but that's only going to happen. There is no capacity

[5:05] available at the sewer plant. >> Can you just hold on? Let me get through

[5:10] this. I I I we want everybody's questions, but hoping maybe I can answer

[5:15] your questions as we go through here talk through

[5:18] » but we'll we'll certainly answer everyone's questions.

[5:22] Um, I want to explain development rights just briefly because I know people ask

[5:27] me what is a development right? And I don't know if you can see this chart

[5:32] well or not, but the development right program was

[5:37] established in November of 1976. It's when the township developed their

[5:42] first zoning ordinance. And what they did in order, it's part of

[5:46] their farmland preservation and open space preservation program is

[5:53] they limit the amount of development within the egg district. So give you an

[5:58] example here.

[6:02] If you look at a 100 acre farm, which is the third one up from the bottom on

[6:07] November 10, they would have had six development

[6:11] rights. One of those rights must remain with the

[6:15] main tract at all times. So that means they have five available. Well, what can

[6:20] they do with those five? They could either subdivide lots off of the egg

[6:26] parcel, but each of those lots cannot exceed more than 1.2 acres.

[6:32] That way, you can't carve up a 100 acre farm and make 20 acre parcels.

[6:38] or they can sell those development rights into a receiving district

[6:43] uh into a residential area. Now, I know we've had people have come

[6:48] in and they bought purchase farms and they're like, "Well, you know, today I

[6:53] have, you know, 90 acres." But what they

[6:57] forget is if you buy a track that's 90 acres and

[7:01] you want to know if you have development rights, we have to trace the history of

[7:05] that track back to November 1976. So if those five lots were either subbed

[7:12] off already or they were sold to a receiving district or a combination

[7:16] thereof, you have no more development rights. So that's the max you ever get

[7:20] in a lifetime. So it's not like it resets every time

[7:25] you sell five sell the farm does not reset. So and that's the purpose of

[7:32] receiving district to get those development rights out of the egg

[7:37] and into a residential district. Um,

[7:43] now if you look again, I pointed out do it from up here

[7:50] jumping back and forth here.

[7:54] Of course, this is all the township. This is a specific area that we're

[7:58] talking about. Um, this here is Hamilton's overlook. This is Campbell

[8:03] Road. This is Strawberry Fields West. This is Miller Park right here,

[8:11] uh, Campbell Road. And then this area in the blue is the area that we're uh is

[8:16] being proposed for reszoning from the rural residential receiving to the

[8:21] suburban residential receiving.

[8:28] This is uh an outline showing the affected parcels. Again, this is Miller

[8:32] Park. Um, this is part of the Miller Farm

[8:39] that goes up here. Now, this side of the road is already zoned suburban

[8:43] residential receiving.

[8:51] Now, the designated growth area, the comprehensive plan,

[8:55] that is a plan that is developed. It's not it's not law. It's not legal.

[9:02] It's just a planning tool for the elected officials to take a long range

[9:08] plan and long range look at what they how they want to see the township in the

[9:13] future. We are part of a regional comprehensive plan group, the Southern

[9:18] York County Regional Planning Commission, which again consists of all

[9:22] four of the burrs that I mentioned as well as Shbury Township. And if you look

[9:26] here,

[9:29] this uh I call it dark purple here in the 2010 comprehensive plan showed it as

[9:37] future growth area.

[9:42] Um this area up here, the the lighter blue is like a secondary and then the

[9:46] red is a primary growth area. Primary growth area is what you see in

[9:53] the red and this is actually Miller Park and part of the Miller farm is already

[9:57] identified as a primary growth area. So we have the area right here that we're

[10:02] talking about considering the reszoning and then again Hamilton's overlook down

[10:06] here was a uh future growth area.

[10:14] I wanted to read something to you here. Um,

[10:18] and this is out of the 2010 comprehensive plan cuz might be asking

[10:23] what is the future growth area? What does that mean? Um, reading directly out

[10:27] of the comp plan, the future growth area has been established to indicate where

[10:32] development is most appropriate beyond a 10-year time frame or if development

[10:38] should occur at a much greater pace than anticipated.

[10:42] This area was chosen due to its proximity of the burrows and the

[10:45] amenities provided therein, its location adjacent to current public utilities and

[10:51] the availability of connecting transportation routes. So again, as we

[10:56] looked at back here a little bit, this area here,

[11:02] you know, we we already have Hamilton's overlook. We have Strawberry Fields. We

[11:07] have Strawberry Fields the other side of Sesuana Trail. Then we get up into the

[11:12] burrow, Southern Farms. Then you have New Freedom Burrow to the west. And then

[11:18] to the northwest, you have railroad. So that's where we already have the the

[11:22] higher density residential development. And from a planning perspective, that's

[11:26] where you want to keep it. Again, that's where the public utilities are and so

[11:30] forth.

[11:37] Now this here slide

[11:41] yellow is an outline of the existing Miller family tract

[11:49] and as I had mentioned this area here I say to the northeast of Strawberry Road

[11:56] is already zone suburban residential receiving.

[12:01] This is the area that is rural residential receiving including this

[12:05] parcel here which is the Raymar tract and the township is in the process of

[12:12] negotiating with the Miller family to purchase it's about 13 acres

[12:17] right here uh immediately to the I guess you would call that to the west to the

[12:24] west of Miller Park. Miller Park is currently 22 acres and this would be an

[12:28] additional 13 acres added to the park. So with with that purchase, if that all

[12:36] materializes, we're going to be losing that

[12:39] development capacity under the suburban residential which does allow a higher

[12:43] density and we need to have receiving districts

[12:47] in order to be able to accommodate the use of those development rights from the

[12:52] agricultural district. So that's the intent is to reszone this area over here

[12:59] suburban residential receiving to help offset what's going to be lost if

[13:04] there's a park and open space uh that if that materializes and goes

[13:09] through here.

[13:13] Now just to give you an idea um this is the Miller farm the subdivision again if

[13:18] it materializes everything you see here in this green or

[13:23] some shade of green is the tract. This tract here would be four tracks. This

[13:30] would become part of Miller Park 13 acres. This area here those that are

[13:36] familiar there's a pond I believe down back here. It's the old farmhouse uh on

[13:40] this tract. This larger tract here

[13:45] is open field right now. And then there's a piece of the property that's

[13:51] between two existing homes on these two separate lots.

[13:55] This piece would be subbed off, subdivided and attached to this property

[14:00] right here. Um, so that's what the subdivision would

[14:04] be. important to understand the subdivision that's proposed here in

[14:08] conjunction with the resoning is the separation of land only. I know a couple

[14:13] calls I got um people are wondering well is there a housing development coming?

[14:18] I'm not aware of anyone that's talking to developers

[14:23] at this point in time. Um if and when that ever happens, they have to come

[14:28] back before this body, the township planning commission. They need to

[14:32] provide full detailed plan showing the subdivision of each individual lot like

[14:37] they did with Hamilton's Overlook. Um they'll have to address everything

[14:41] that's in the ordinance. Um including traffic. I know I had some questions

[14:45] about traffic. You know, they'll have to do traffic studies including at the

[14:50] intersections. Um more than likely if it happens, they would have to widen the

[14:55] road. Even a possibility of traffic signal. Um, I'm sure everyone's familiar

[15:00] with the traffic signal at the end of Campbell Road and just run a trail.

[15:06] The only reason that traffic signal is there because Hamilton's overlook went

[15:09] in and that's what warranted that traffic signal. I'm not saying there

[15:12] would be a traffic signal. I'm just saying if there's some kind of uh

[15:17] traffic control devices that need to be installed, it would probably be the

[15:21] result of of something being developed. Um, and again, um, I I'm sure everybody

[15:27] probably understands now just through this conversation,

[15:30] but I know a couple of the conversations I had, some folks didn't realize that

[15:35] that can actually be all developed today into homes whether or not this happens

[15:41] because it's already zone residential and it's already zoned a receding

[15:46] district. Um the uh one of the questions that someone

[15:52] asked me, so I thought I'm going to share the information. Um they asked

[15:55] what the purchase price is. [snorts] The uh purchase price that we're negotiating

[15:59] with the Miller family is $275,000. Um we had two independent appraisals

[16:07] done. Um and the uh one came in at June of 23, which was $250,000.

[16:16] The Miller family asked for it to be reappraised. We used the same appraiser.

[16:21] Uh April of 24 came in at 265,000. And as far as the purchase, how we're

[16:27] going to pay for it, um the township was very fortunate to receive um I have

[16:34] 180,000. it should be $280,000 in uh grants, two separate grants that

[16:39] we received that would pay for it, pay for the purchase as well as some of the

[16:43] engineering and the surveying and the legal costs.

[16:47] Um and again, the reasonzoning uh proposal that did go through the

[16:52] township planning commission at a public meeting, they did recommend approval.

[16:57] The proposal also went to the York County Planning Commission. uh their

[17:01] organization reviewed it and at a public meeting they recommended approval of the

[17:06] uh resoning as well. I think that's all I had. So get back to the chair.

[17:13] » Thank you Tom. I think that [clears throat] should be good

[17:15] background for everybody. A couple guidelines before we open it for

[17:19] comments to try to make the best use of the time we have. Um you have a maximum

[17:24] of five minutes. We will time that. We will let you know when you have one

[17:28] minute left and you you must stop at that point in time even if you haven't

[17:33] finished your presentation. Um we will ask you once not just right now but once

[17:39] we start maybe to line up three or four people at a time at the microphone so we

[17:43] can quickly move from one person to the other. Um if someone has already said

[17:49] what you want to say you don't need to repeat that. You certainly wouldn't

[17:53] heard it. So we would ask you not to take the time to repeat it. And if

[17:58] you're here with a group, we would ask you to select the spokesman for the

[18:02] group so that we can move through things uh a little bit faster. Um with that, we

[18:07] will open up public comment. Um again, if you could come up to the microphone

[18:13] and line up a few people that speak loudly into the microphone if you can so

[18:19] that people who are on YouTube and other places can understand. [clears throat]

[18:23] So you're going to have to decide who goes first. We're not going to

[18:27] So, um, if somebody would like to take it first and if a few people would line

[18:32] up behind that person, we can we can keep it moving. And if you just want to

[18:37] sit there and listen, that's fine, too. >> And if you state your name and address

[18:42] as you come up to the microphone. >> Good evening. My name is Douglas Zen Zs

[18:48] and Zebra. IN. I live at 116 Abbey Road. And um I have I just hopefully I can

[18:55] just go about this quickly. My concern is the proposed change in zoning for

[19:00] Strawberry Road since I live there. I learned it's important to know that I

[19:04] learned about the proposed expansion of zoning options when I received the mail

[19:09] flyer. I had no previous knowledge. I was shocked. It's only been a couple

[19:13] like three weeks. I did my best to read the flyer, research online, and then I

[19:18] did speak with Todd Zoo on several occasions. And I appreciate that.

[19:23] What I learned, it was quite interesting. One is that the expanded

[19:27] options for buildings along Strawberry Road is already permitted. If I'm wrong,

[19:32] just tell me I'm wrong. But my understanding is they do have the

[19:35] ability to expand from one to two um buildings per acre.

[19:42] » Correct. on on Strawberry Road, the part that would be proposed for the park and

[19:46] the residual that Miller family and then the area that's proposed for reszoning

[19:50] on the west side of Strawberry Road. Both of those areas are both receiving.

[19:55] So that is correct. They would both require development rights. Then I then

[19:59] I also learned that the change from rural residential receiving to suburban

[20:03] residential receiving will permit single family attached dwellings or semi-

[20:08] detached dwellings or multif family dwellings and or active adult community

[20:14] buildings. And I understand that could also include homes that have a fake

[20:19] front. You have three families living in what appears to be a single family home,

[20:24] but it's actually a multifamily home. But the is designed to represent a

[20:30] single family home. I'm not sure why. Maybe it looks better. I also understand

[20:34] that acceptable sewage and utility resources as you mentioned must be

[20:38] available in the roadways water availability runoffs.

[20:42] » Microphone. >> Well, it's on. We'll we'll turn it up

[20:47] here. >> Speak louder. I don't mind.

[20:52] » Okay. So, I also >> if you can speak into the microphone. I

[20:56] also there I also understand that acceptable sewage utility resources must

[21:00] be available that roadways water availability runoffs and other reserves

[21:04] must be available and will dictate what can ultimately can occur. I also learned

[21:10] that the publish this is this is fascinating. I learned that the

[21:13] published criteria for this purpose was to be quote unquote short, concise, and

[21:19] free of technical jargon that would make it challen challenging for lay people to

[21:24] read. Supposed to be easy for for us to understand. I will say that I'm highly

[21:30] educated on a short couple credits of a PhD.

[21:34] I have worked in federal, state, and local government in responsible high

[21:38] responsible positions for 44 years. And I find this process bewildering. It was

[21:44] so complex. I've spent hours and hours over the last few weeks reviewing and

[21:49] trying to make sense of it. I also found out that the project was to clearly

[21:54] represent the priorities that township leaders and residents said were

[21:57] important. How was this accomplished? Did you have a meeting? This is the

[22:02] first I heard this whole what was going on was three weeks ago, but this had

[22:07] been obviously going on for a year or so or longer.

[22:11] However, and these two things are critical. I strongly question the verbal

[22:16] and written instructions for the project since I only learned about them three

[22:21] weeks ago. I don't understand how public concurrence was achieved when only four

[22:26] people, including me, that means three other people called the township and

[22:31] only three persons supposedly who were involved in the October 15th planning

[22:35] commission meeting. Not sure if that's the right meeting. So, you don't have

[22:39] like 100 people from the communities, two large communities, you have six

[22:45] people maybe thinking and commenting something's not something doesn't feel

[22:49] right. Okay. So, what do I what is my conclusion? I love the Strawberry Fields

[22:54] community which is beautiful, idyllic, and appropriately designed. I can

[22:59] understand single family home structures for the community consistent with what

[23:04] has occurred in the immediate area in the past. We are I think on 230 acre

[23:09] lots your the other development has I think half acre lots. I understand all

[23:14] that. I don't know why. >> One minute remaining.

[23:17] » I don't understand why we can't be consistent with that. If you need to

[23:20] expand residential community, utilize only single family building structures

[23:25] on one acre of lots. Retain what we have. Preserve and do not destroy what

[23:30] already exists. Be sensitive and representative to the people you serve

[23:35] as these flyers which I'm going to give you represent. And I just show the

[23:39] people in the audience. This is the flyer and I'll show give these to you

[23:43] all. Says I will and shows a picture of a farm. It says I will never understand

[23:47] how someone saw this and decided to build 100 houses. We have a gorgeous um

[23:54] community. The community is loved by many if not all of you. We've all

[23:58] invested heavily and I my printer of course got destroyed. The ink ran out

[24:05] there if you will. You can look at it. And I respectfully request that what we

[24:12] do is we restrict and I don't know how you do it.

[24:17] » Please listen to what I said and see what you

[24:20] » Thank you very much. We have the next person who would like to speak and again

[24:24] if you would line up a little bit.

[24:28] We have a couple people in line. We can move it along faster.

[24:33] Is there anybody else that wants to speak?

[24:36] While while we're waiting for that, if I could just respond to a couple of

[24:40] things. Um I know when I spoke to um Mr. Zen, you had mentioned about uh

[24:49] you read where it was 3.5% response.

[24:52] » 3.26%. >> Yeah. That that that had nothing to do

[24:56] with the reasoning. You were referring to the comprehensive plan review, which

[25:00] is a totally separate document and totally separate issue. So that did not

[25:04] have anything to do with this. Um, and as far as um, you know, being aware,

[25:13] everybody I know gets the newsletter. I don't know how many people read it. Um,

[25:18] we always encourage people in the newsletter to do a couple of things. One

[25:22] is sign up for Savvy Citizen. I don't know how many of you have done that. If

[25:27] you haven't, I encourage you to strongly do it. There's cards in the back there

[25:31] that tell you how to easily do it. Savvy citizen is just messages or

[25:36] announcements that the township pushes out. It comes through on your cell

[25:39] phone. Uh it might have attachments. Uh could have a notice like this, a map,

[25:43] whatever. Um so if you haven't done that, encourage you to do that. Um the

[25:48] other thing is as Mr. Zin mentioned, this has been discussed for probably

[25:53] close to a year, if not longer. >> Um but again, we have a website. All of

[25:59] our minutes are published every month on the website. All the meetings are

[26:03] recorded and are uploaded on YouTube and they're available to see there. Um, if

[26:09] you haven't done the past, I encourage you to do it in the future to stay

[26:12] informed.

[26:16] » Okay. >> Thank you. Anyone else who wishes to

[26:19] speak? >> And again, if there's someone who after

[26:25] a couple minutes of him speaking, if the next person would walk up to the

[26:28] microphone, that would help us to keep things moving.

[26:36] Hello. Uh, my name is Edin. Uh, I live at 1971 Lo Piccolo Court. That's office

[26:44] Taylor Road. I'm not real close to this zoning. So, I just want a clarification

[26:50] because I thought I heard uh Mr. particular say that because the park was

[26:56] expanding, we were losing

[27:00] residential um no right,

[27:04] » we would be losing we would be losing capacity to utilize as many development

[27:10] rights as is it as it is now because it's suburban residential receiving.

[27:15] » Okay. Right. So because of this >> because of this the reasonzoning is

[27:22] taking place on the other side of Shawberry Road.

[27:25] » Correct. >> Um and I also heard that [clears throat]

[27:28] there's no immediate plans for what we're going to do with this additional

[27:33] acreage for Park. >> Not at this point in time. We we do have

[27:38] a grant um to conduct a feasibility study and a master plan

[27:44] » and that again um it Mr. Zen unfortunately it's it's it's reality. I

[27:49] don't know why but if you ever do a municipalwide survey and get 5% back,

[27:57] people are really excited on our in our world because people just don't respond.

[28:03] But I can tell you, watch your newsletter in the next six months

[28:06] because we'll be including surveys for what people are looking for in parks and

[28:11] recreation. So, it is part of the process.

[28:14] » Yeah. Just so you know, we have a master plan for Miller Park. Now, we've been

[28:18] through phase two of three phases. We've put that on hold because we knew we were

[28:23] going to try to acquire additional land. And then we will do a new master plan

[28:28] for the entire park, not just for what we have as the additional land. And part

[28:33] of that will be we'll listen to what people want through surveys. We did that

[28:37] the first time and look at what makes the most sense. Probably initially we'll

[28:43] put them a walking trail there because people love the walking trails and then

[28:47] we'll have time to decide what happens with the rice.

[28:50] » Well, my point is I I think Newer Park is is beautiful the way it is right now.

[28:54] And if this addition is causing this resoning, I think we need to re rethink

[29:00] that whole process. to disturb a lot of people.

[29:03] » Well, one of the nice things with the addition is that we're going to be able

[29:06] to keep Miller Park. The third phase would have had maybe tennis courts or

[29:11] pickle ball courts, basketball, and we've taken another look at that and

[29:15] said we think people like the more um look that the park has now where things

[29:21] aren't all we don't want to push all that together.

[29:23] » I agree. >> But there's a lot of people going pickle

[29:25] ball and some other things. So, this now gives us room to do that. And you know

[29:30] they're not making any land any more land. So if we don't acquire that when

[29:34] we have a chance, we may never be able to do anything more. We have an

[29:38] opportunity now. So we want we want to drive that while land's available.

[29:43] » That's that's all I have to And if I could just follow up on that, you know,

[29:46] I understand where you're coming from, you know, as far as shifting this over

[29:51] here, but something else to keep in mind, as I said today, you can have that

[29:55] high density where we want the 13 acres of parkland and you're not going to have

[29:59] that open space anymore. You're going to really tighten up Miller Park and and

[30:05] you could have homes adjacent to the park right now.

[30:09] So, >> thank you. Yeah. Thank you.

[30:12] It's going up. Good evening. Mike here, 235 Strawberry

[30:18] Road. I only have one question and that deals with a comment that I thought I

[30:22] heard Mr. Zen make and that was he referenced 100 potential development

[30:30] sites. Do we know what the number of sites may be? No, we do not. And and

[30:37] I'll tell you why. There's there's so many variables that go into developing a

[30:41] parcel. Um for suburban residential, the first thing you have to do is and

[30:47] it's challenging for a developer because they have to pull out all the acreage

[30:52] that takes up the roads, storm water basins and everything. So that's the

[30:57] basis for doing your density calculation. So you can't have a higher

[31:01] density utilizing the acreage that's in roads and storm water basins and so

[31:05] forth. So that's the first step. The other thing in the suburban residential

[31:09] receiving district which is I think a little unique and and actually it's a

[31:13] little cumbersome to calculate when you're looking at it. But the way the

[31:18] ordinance is written while Mr. Zinn's correct it could have some town homes.

[31:23] It could have multif [clears throat] family and so forth. But the way the

[31:26] ordinance is written you cannot have all town houses. You

[31:31] cannot have all multif family. The way the ordinance is written for every

[31:36] multifamily duplex uh townhouse that you have that

[31:42] development must also match that with a single family home.

[31:48] So let's say there's 25 multifamily duplexes, town houses, you also have to

[31:55] have 25 single family homes built in that community. So it can't be all

[32:00] multif family type of dwellings. All right. So that's why it's hard for me to

[32:05] say it could be x amount of units because

[32:08] » somebody might come in and if they ever go to develop as sewer capacity becomes

[32:11] available, they might have all single family homes. They're not required to

[32:15] put in multif family.

[32:18] » So a followup since there been at least two other meetings in the last year

[32:24] leading to this session on that property. There must be some general

[32:28] guidelines in terms of the minimum or maximum number of development sites.

[32:34] Somebody has to have had that conversation.

[32:38] You're telling me they haven't? No, we we we can play I can tell you

[32:43] right now and you're welcome to come in. We can play around with those numbers

[32:47] all we want. We could make those numbers what we want them to be based on what

[32:52] kind of configuration we make. you know, whether it's it's multif family duplexes

[32:59] or or all single family because if you have um

[33:04] you know, if you do the multif family, the twotory with uh I think the max is

[33:09] eight units, >> but maximum height is two stories.

[33:14] » Um you know, that's going to shift around what your available

[33:19] uh density is because you need a minimum lot size for a single family home. And

[33:24] then there's a different lot size for multif family. There's a different lot

[33:28] size for duplexes. Um, so I I could I could come up with probably 15 different

[33:36] scenarios. >> Well, I understand what you're saying.

[33:39] However, and I >> I hope my five minutes aren't up yet.

[33:43] Uh, but if they're going to be single family, you know what that number could

[33:49] possibly be at this point is is where I'm going. Well, if

[33:53] » and then if there is a uh calculation in terms of how many single family and

[34:00] duplexes, you should know that number now.

[34:03] » Well, am I wrong?

[34:06] » Let me see. >> I I will say I don't have have the

[34:08] number. >> I don't have the number off the top of

[34:10] my head, but I will look here. I can tell you what the square footage is.

[34:13] » Um >> All right. I

[34:15] » for the minimum lot size remaining. We looked at at the the tradeoffs if you

[34:20] would between looking at the SSR now that's there now and if that goes away

[34:25] and there are no more and the other is reszone. It does it does allow for a few

[34:32] not a lot but a few more homes than which you would have in the one section.

[34:35] I don't have those numbers here but yes what you're asking we did look at

[34:38] [snorts] those. It's probably a year ago you know when we were looking at all

[34:42] that. >> All right. I I just find it interesting

[34:44] and I've only talked for like two minutes. everybody else has to answer my

[34:48] questions. I I I just can't fathom you don't have that minimum or maximum

[34:53] number of development sites. >> We we did look at at rough numbers

[34:58] » and all I'm looking for. I just don't have them with me.

[35:03] » And it's hard to say because I'm going to use Hamilton's Overlook as an example

[35:08] » and the storm water >> is the storm water.

[35:10] » Yeah. Hamilton's Overlook could have had more homes and smaller lot sizes if they

[35:16] didn't have the storm water basins >> because when you build a home, you're

[35:20] required to manage your storm water >> and you can put seepage pits in where it

[35:26] catches all the water from your downspouts.

[35:28] » All right. >> So, that's what I'm saying to I I don't

[35:32] know what a developer is going to do if he's going to put in a storm water basic

[35:36] system. Am I asking a question? >> No, we No, we asked those questions and

[35:40] we did [snorts] have the rough numbers. I just

[35:43] » So, so somebody can get back to us. >> If I went home and got a file, I could

[35:47] probably >> Okay. So, somebody can get back to us

[35:49] and let us know what that is. Minimum >> if you'll give me your contact

[35:53] information, email if you have it. >> Okay.

[35:56] » Yeah, I'll get you. >> Yeah. What I want to show you here is um

[36:01] for a single family home uh with public water and public sewer. Is this uh make

[36:07] sure I'm on the right here. Suburban residential.

[36:09] » I understand if you could answer that later. That's fine.

[36:14] » Give me Give me your email before you leave tonight. Thank you.

[36:16] » Sure. And I'll get with Todd together. We'll do that.

[36:21] » Yes, ma'am. >> Hello. Good evening. My name is Toana

[36:25] Melton. Um 346 Eliza um and Hamilton's Overlook. Um, and so I just, this is our

[36:34] first meeting here. So, a couple things. Is there, you talked about a strategic

[36:39] plan that you've talked about for over a year now. What are the And I heard you

[36:44] say pickle ball. I heard you say potentially houses or whatever have you.

[36:48] And I know that there's no developer that has even mentioned anything to you

[36:53] guys, but what is the plan? like when you talked a year ago, what was the

[36:57] thought or do is that something that was discussed during that time? That's

[37:03] question number one. Question number two is I know we're all here and I know it's

[37:07] a lot of families here from Hamilton's overlook. Do we really even have a vote

[37:13] or is it will it be this body that will make the decision and you know kind of

[37:18] if you get a developer and if it happens to be group homes that's what it's going

[37:22] to be. Do we as homeowners have any say so in it?

[37:27] » I can answer that that part and we're here to listen.

[37:30] » Um, usually we just listen. We don't comment too much, but it is this body

[37:35] that makes that decision. The five of us that are here, you have elected us to do

[37:40] that. Um, and did we look a year ago when we looked at this? Um, if if I

[37:46] understand that question right, essentially what what we were looking at

[37:50] back then is we had a desire to purchase the park land. Um, we did we actually

[37:56] did have developers a couple of years ago that approached

[38:02] that were kind of looking at the park that we want the park we want to

[38:06] acquire. And they were looking at that and they submitted some preliminary

[38:11] plans and we looked at and said no way you cannot put even in the SSR they

[38:17] could not put the kind of density in that they wanted and they didn't come in

[38:21] for any formal approval. They just were looking at maybe buying the land. So

[38:25] they wanted to say can we build all this? We said no. They came back a

[38:29] second time and said what about this? We said no. Um and they went away. So, we

[38:34] know of nobody that is interested in any of the land at this time. Okay. Um, we

[38:40] just it it kind of broached the opportunity for us to to try to acquire

[38:44] because that's been on our horizon for some time.

[38:50] » Now, as far as I guess you say is about whether or not it gets reszoned,

[38:54] um, yeah, that is up to this body. But as far as like if a plan comes in for

[38:58] subdivision, >> Yes. um or land development for a

[39:01] housing development. This board makes the final decision, but

[39:06] they have to follow what our ordinance states. So, we have a zoning ordinance

[39:09] and we have a subdivision land development ordinance. It's already been

[39:12] adopted. So, as long as they check off all those boxes, you know, this board

[39:16] really doesn't have any choice other than to approve it.

[39:20] » And just to give you an idea, that process probably takes a couple of

[39:24] years. If a builder came in today and wanted to build there, he's not going to

[39:29] put a shovel in the ground for a couple years because he goes through to the

[39:33] staff review. He goes through the planning commission. He comes here and

[39:37] there are a lot of other issues that need to be covered. So, it doesn't

[39:40] happen quick. But today, nobody could do that unless they were putting in well

[39:45] and septic and they can do that today. You could have a bunch of houses in back

[39:49] of you today if they were willing to put well and septic in.

[39:53] » Okay. I appreciate you answering the question um and and kind of explaining

[39:58] it because again this was our first meeting here and I think I'm going to

[40:02] speak for us as for myself my husband and I as a homeowner just to take into

[40:07] consideration just depending on you know the developers coming in and I I get the

[40:12] aspect where you're coming from but just as a homeowner just understanding that

[40:17] the purchases that we made and having the here you know potentially a group

[40:22] home or potentially town homes and things like that, it could really affect

[40:26] the value. So that that was the >> one of the things you want to bear in

[40:30] mind is that you think there were people who felt the same way when Hamilton's

[40:35] overlook went in and I would guarantee you there were. So So now now you're

[40:40] changing places now someone who maybe didn't want Hamilton Overlook there, now

[40:45] you're there, but you're looking at this. Um I live the same place where we

[40:49] were part of a a farm at one time and it's across the road. there could be

[40:53] development but you know people have to realize remember we were we were that

[40:58] place at one time so just to give some empathy to the whole process um there

[41:03] were people that didn't want to see Hamilton over there too but we're glad

[41:08] you're there >> yes sir Jeremy Anderson 339 Eliza um I

[41:13] just wanted to clarify something that I think Mr. Ziggler said about sewage. If

[41:19] this goes through, there is no sewage capacity. So, a builder at this point in

[41:25] time, the only way that we know that they could probably develop it is

[41:31] if they're willing to expand the wastewater treatment plant, which

[41:34] everybody's sew each goes to New Freedom Burough's treatment plant. So, they'd

[41:39] have to work with New Freedom Burrow, not us. Um, and number one, they'd have

[41:44] to be open to that. And number two, the developers would have to pay for it.

[41:48] They're not going to pass that cost on to the current users.

[41:51] » So in that sense, going to this zoning could almost limit a developer from

[41:56] » at this point in time, I think it severely

[41:59] » severely limits it, >> right?

[42:01] » Um but again, >> none of us can predict whether a

[42:04] developer comes in and thinks, you know, it's worthy or not. Um the last I knew

[42:10] they were probably looking at four or five million dollars to to expand the

[42:13] plant years.

[42:15] » Yeah. >> Yeah. But

[42:17] » that's all I Thank you. >> Sure.

[42:19] » Thank you. >> Yes, sir.

[42:21] » Gentlemen, how y'all doing? How y'all doing?

[42:24] » Good. Good. Good. >> I'm Rodney Hicks. Uh 313 Eliza Road.

[42:29] That's my wife Bridget there. Um, you mentioned something about how people

[42:35] didn't want Hamilton's overlook there prior to that is completely different

[42:39] from having multif family properties and group homes. I sell a lot of multif

[42:45] family properties down in Baltimore as a realtor and I know what type of

[42:49] clientele that brings. The properties that we've worked hard for and purchased

[42:53] and I moved from Baltimore up here to get away from that element.

[42:58] So, we cannot liken a group home or a multifamily home to the homes that we've

[43:05] purchased over Hamilton's Overlook. It's a completely different That's a good

[43:09] point. >> Right.

[43:10] » And so, when you bring those renters there, the next thing that's going to

[43:14] come is public transportation because they need somewhere to go. They need pl

[43:18] they going to have to get public transportation to get to where they need

[43:22] to go to. All of them are not going to have vehicles,

[43:25] right? which is going to bring a different type of element. I worked in

[43:29] law enforcement for 22 years down in Baltimore and as a realtor as well. I

[43:35] was dual career and I see and I know what type of clientele is going to come

[43:41] and we've invested a lot of money into these properties

[43:46] and we have a lot of people here from Hamilton's Overlook

[43:50] and I just think that is going to bring a different type of element and if I'm

[43:55] being honest and again forgive me this is my first time in one of these

[43:59] meetings ever because in Baltimore City we didn't have these right so this is

[44:04] new for And I was I was going to sit there and not say anything, but I cannot

[44:08] do that. That that's going to bring a It's going

[44:14] to kill the property value >> drastically. If there's anything I don't

[44:20] mean to cut you off, I'm sorry. If there's anything that we can do

[44:25] » to change that, >> please, I'm sure I speak for everyone,

[44:30] let us know. One thing to bear in mind is that just

[44:34] because it's zoned for that doesn't mean anybody would build that. A builder is

[44:38] going to build what he can sell, you know, and he may not be able to sell

[44:42] that type of product here. Um, and today again, unless he finds a way to get a

[44:47] lot of sewage, he can't do that anyway. >> But the fact that there's a chance

[44:52] somebody is going to try it, >> there's a chance. That same thing could

[44:56] happen right now on the land we're trying to buy. That's not quite in your

[45:00] backyard, but it's close. >> It's close enough.

[45:03] » So, that can be done there today if they have a sewer. They don't have that today

[45:07] either. >> You know, I feel good being a being able

[45:10] to leave my garage door open >> sometimes all night and go to sleep and

[45:14] know that my stuff is still safe in my my car. I don't have to lock my truck

[45:19] and my kids are out there playing. I don't have to worry about I moved from

[45:23] an area from there to here so I could have that.

[45:28] and I'm sure others have done the same. >> I appreciate that.

[45:33] » So, that's we're going to give

[45:38] everybody a chance to speak before we have anybody come up a second time.

[45:45] » Sure. Come on up. >> Good evening. U My name's uh my legal

[45:50] name David Dixon. I'm 347 Eliza Road. A lot of people in the neighborhood know

[45:55] my my I get my middle name Chris. Um, appreciate uh the opportunity to speak

[46:00] tonight. >> Um, I um I know I'm going to echo a lot

[46:03] of what was said before, but not directly. Um, we uh have been in the

[46:08] area for nearly 20 years, but we were on the Maryland side and uh uh part of the

[46:14] appeal to coming and building in Hamilton's overlook was uh what exactly

[46:19] you know what Rodney described. He did a a great job describing I think how a lot

[46:24] of us feel. We certainly understand you know [clears throat] I'm in construction

[46:28] myself. I realize the process. You know, you can't, you know, I you to to be able

[46:33] to have Hamilton's overlook and say, "Oh, nobody else can come." I don't

[46:36] think that's really the sentiment, but um just the the makeup of this township,

[46:42] uh you know, part of the allure for just being at rural. We um that's what

[46:47] brought a lot of us here. And I think I don't think anybody's looking to

[46:50] exclude, but I think we just uh you know, we're trusting, you know, that I

[46:54] guess, you know, our elected officials just, you know, we appreciate the

[46:58] opportunity to be heard that, you know, there's certainly a concern that, you

[47:02] know, we we that don't want to turn it into, you know, a suburban area. And I

[47:07] think, um, you that's just, you know, what we're trying to convey tonight. Um,

[47:12] and just I think Rodney nailed it when he said just even the potential. So, um

[47:17] I think that's that's one of the biggest things. And uh second, we're big outdoor

[47:21] users and the discussion about we go to Miller Park and um what we discovered is

[47:27] [snorts] Miller Park is not a dog friendly area, you know, the signs

[47:32] » clearly indicate that. So, if they're if if we're having expansion discussions

[47:37] for Miller Park, um I like the pickle ball idea other than try signing up for

[47:43] pickle ball anywhere. Uh, and the classes are all full, so you're going to

[47:47] have good luck finding someone to teach you. But I guess my point about that is

[47:51] there needs to be more opportunities for u dog owners, things like that. If we're

[47:57] going to expand this park sometime in the future, I would hope there's

[48:00] consideration. I know there's irresponsible dog owners. We see them,

[48:05] but um, yeah, there still needs to be an opportunity to be able for everybody to

[48:09] be able to enjoy these things. >> Well, you'll have the opportunity with a

[48:12] survey to express >> Yeah. Thank Thank you. But um I

[48:15] appreciate the opportunity to be here tonight and appreciate the people that

[48:18] have come out u to be able to express their concerns too. Thank you.

[48:22] » Thank you. >> Yes, sir.

[48:26] » Yeah. Good evening. Uh Rob Grandandy um 345 Eliza. So I back up directly to the

[48:32] uh the field property. So definitely concerned about might what might come

[48:35] in. So, if it does come to be that it is a mix, so town houses and uh single

[48:42] family homes, um my brother who's in the business in the Baltimore area has

[48:46] stated that it's often customary to for example line the adjacent properties

[48:52] with like property. So, in other words, um if there was mixed properties that

[48:56] the single family homes might um be adjacent to the current Eliza homes and

[49:01] then um town town houses like in inside of the other property. Is that is that a

[49:07] thing or is you know is that a maybe a Baltimore thing or you know

[49:11] » every developer is a little different you know um but typically I mean they

[49:16] try to do a transition instead of a real hard you know it's kind of like that

[49:20] with zoning you know you try to go from commercial to the heavier you know um

[49:26] you know the higher density residential before you get into the lower density

[49:29] residential then you get out into the egg. Again, that's up to each individual

[49:34] developer. We can't make any guarantees of that, but

[49:38] » Okay. >> Thank you.

[49:42] » Thank you. We're only allowing one time.

[49:47] » You got five minutes and you had your five minutes. I want to know if anybody

[49:51] else is there. Anybody else here wants to talk?

[49:55] » Also, to our half hour limit. >> Could I could I start and yield my time

[50:00] to him? >> No. No.

[50:02] » Why not? >> We're not starting.

[50:04] » They do it in the government. >> We're not doing that.

[50:08] » I ask our solicitor. I feel that we should not let somebody talk multiple

[50:14] times. >> Those are your rules.

[50:15] » I'm sorry. >> Those are your rules, sir.

[50:17] » Yes. Is there anybody else who wishes to talk?

[50:21] » That's the problem here. >> Last chance.

[50:25] Okay. We'll close the We'll close the public hearing. We appreciate your

[50:29] comments. we've listened. Um, you know, there are a lot of things that that need

[50:34] to be considered. So, I hope you can put yourselves in our spot and decisions

[50:39] that we need to make that we think serve the entire township best. And and and

[50:45] comment that you made, if you looked at the map that Todd did, the large part of

[50:51] the township is zoned agriculture and we are trying very hard to keep it that

[50:56] way. But we do need to get rid of some development rights and able to help us

[51:00] do that. So that's why we're looking to somewhere where we can use more of the

[51:04] development rights. But um look at all that green and that is something that

[51:09] this board is committed to keeping green so the town stays very r

[51:15] you have any else you want to offer? >> I do not.

[51:19] » All right. So we are finished with the public comment on the hearing. Thank you

[51:24] all for coming out. You're certainly welcome to stay as we move through a

[51:28] couple more hours of our meeting. For those who wish to leave, we'll just

[51:33] pause a couple seconds so that you can do that.

[51:48] I don't know why they

[51:57] should not

[52:02] [clears throat]

[52:13] situation [clears throat] down the cost. Thank you.

[52:18] » We need to ask you if you will take that out in the lobby if you want to talk so

[52:22] that we can continue here. >> You're just the very beginning of what

[52:26] we need to do tonight.

[52:53] Mr. Chairman, I'm I'm going to uh I'm going to close the back doors so that we

[52:57] can >> Okay.

[52:58] » Thank you.

[53:12] We stay out here.

[53:31] » Thanks. Appreciate it. All right. Um, how's the board feel? Are

[53:36] we in a position where we're ready to vote?

[53:42] on the ordinance.

[53:46] » So moved. >> Okay. Second.

[53:48] » All right. So we will then um we're looking at this ordinance now 2025-04

[53:54] that makes the map amendment for zoning. Um is there a motion someone would like

[53:59] to put before the board?

[54:03] » I'll make that motion. >> Want to specify your motion? Motion

[54:08] number >> 25 202504

[54:12] » 24504.

[54:16] » Your motion is to >> adopt the order.

[54:19] » Okay. Thank you. Just want to make sure we're clear.

[54:22] » Your second. >> We have a motion and a second that we

[54:25] [snorts] would adopt ordinance 2025-04. Questions from the board.

[54:32] » I don't have questions, but it have a comment.

[54:34] » Go ahead. Um I'm Did you get a second for that,

[54:37] Bob? >> Yes.

[54:39] » Wonderful. >> Um

[54:41] the um areas already able to be developed.

[54:47] Uh the goal has always been to remove development rights from the farming

[54:52] areas and to put them in areas where have been identified as uh developmental

[55:01] around the burrows, which is where this ties into.

[55:05] um they can be developed today, maybe not at the current density, um but

[55:11] they're still able to be developed. >> Um and there's still no proposed

[55:15] development in the near future due to sewer restrictions.

[55:21] Um that was all I had as far as a comment.

[55:24] » I'd like to make one other additional comment. Uh, not only have we had

[55:30] millers before us about reszoning, >> true,

[55:33] » we've previously had another property owner in this area claim a reszoning

[55:39] » several years in in the same area >> in the same area

[55:41] » at the time was looking for spot zoning as I recall, which is why it was denied.

[55:45] But yes, >> that's another reason why we took into

[55:48] consideration >> this move that we're making because we

[55:51] did have a request for a spot res in this district.

[55:55] » It's a good point. Then we acquire additional parkland.

[55:59] » And just for everybody's knowledge, this has been talked about for probably more

[56:03] than a year. It's been several public hearings, not public hearings, but

[56:08] public meetings where people could have comment. It's been through our planning

[56:12] commission. Um, it's been through the staff. All this is up to date pretty

[56:18] much on our website about what's going on in the newsletter that comes out. So,

[56:23] as Mr. Ziggler said, please take advantage of those. And if you subscribe

[56:28] to Savvy Citizen, uh you get text and information automatically. So, um I

[56:34] would encourage you to use those. If you have any trouble getting on the website

[56:38] or Savvy says, just call into the office here and somebody will help you through

[56:42] that. And if you did not get a newsletter, there are copies of the last

[56:46] one back uh on the table back of you. All right. Any other comments? Just just

[56:52] again that we acquire the parkland basically for free. Uh it's being

[56:58] purchased through grants. So there's no additional tax to the residents,

[57:05] » just benefits. >> And and to speak to grants, they are

[57:08] highly competitive. They are difficult to obtain. Um

[57:13] » well done. >> I give Mr. Ziggler a lot of credit

[57:16] because he was the one who did the application for the grants and followed

[57:19] them through. Um There's a there are a lot of people that

[57:23] money goes so far. When it runs out, then the grants stop. So, we have the

[57:28] grants now. We want to make sure we use them. If we don't, we lose them and they

[57:31] go to somebody else and they might not be around next year when we want to or

[57:36] another year when we want to look for them. So, we've considered all that as

[57:40] as we do this vote as well. It's been a lot of work going into getting where we

[57:45] are to get that park expansion. All right, I'll call for the vote. And

[57:50] again, clarify the vote is to adopt 2025-4.

[57:54] » I >> I

[57:55] » I >> I

[57:56] » I >> I votes the permanent the uh adopted

[58:01] I I think you'll find as time goes on things will work out. So I hope you'll

[58:04] give it a give it a chance, but we do appreciate your comments and understand

[58:09] and um and we want the township to be very

[58:14] rural. That's what this board is committed to. So we're going to do what

[58:17] we can to keep it that way. >> Thank you.

[58:21] All right. The next item is approval of the minutes from our October 1st

[58:25] meeting. >> Like to make a motion to approve.

[58:27] » Second. Motion a second to approve. Questions on the minutes?

[58:31] » Call for the vote. >> I

[58:33] » I >> I

[58:34] » I votes the affirmative. The minutes are approved. Um not listed here, but I

[58:39] think we can include that. We had another set of minutes for the uh budget

[58:43] hearing that we had. >> You can or if you since it's not on the

[58:47] agenda, why don't we just hold it till December? Fair enough. Yeah,

[58:50] » we'll hold it to December. >> We don't want to get in trouble.

[58:52] » No. Another public meeting that was held and

[58:56] and we had no one attended was our was our budget meeting. It's a workshop we

[59:01] hold here. It's open to the public and run runs through the budget. So, and

[59:05] you're welcome to inspect copies of that. In fact, I think a little bit

[59:10] later in the agenda. Don't we don't we approve that?

[59:13] » We'll author the board will authorize it to be advertised for public inspection.

[59:17] So you you can see what comes in and what goes out. I can u have the

[59:23] treasures report. >> I'll make a motion to approve October

[59:27] 2025. >> I have a motion in a second to approve

[59:32] the treasures report. Just a comment. We had just under we had over $9,000 in

[59:37] interest, about $1,000 in fine, and even still this late in the year, a few uh

[59:42] reservations for picnic tables at the various parks. Um questions,

[59:51] call for the vote. >> I

[59:53] » I >> I

[59:54] » I affirmative. We've approved the treasures report.

[59:58] Um we do have a session for now opening public comments. I would say we we're

[1:00:03] we're done with the public hearing, but if you want to address anything else, uh

[1:00:07] you're welcome to step up. There's another opportunity at the end of the

[1:00:10] meeting as well. So, anybody wishes to address at this time?

[1:00:16] Okay. Uh moving forward, we have a couple of ordinances and resolutions.

[1:00:21] The first is the adoption of the International Property Maintenance Code.

[1:00:27] » Make a motion to approve. Ordinance 2025-05.

[1:00:32] » Second. >> All right. We have a motion and a second

[1:00:35] that we would adopt ordinance 2025-05, which essentially adopts the

[1:00:40] International Property Maintenance Code. For those out there that assist us when

[1:00:45] we have properties are not kept up, dilapidated,

[1:00:49] safety issues that give us a little bit more power to go in and have those taken

[1:00:54] care of. >> Any questions from the board? Call for

[1:00:58] vote. I >> I I

[1:01:00] » I >> I affirmative. We have adopted that.

[1:01:04] » Mr. Chairman. >> Yes.

[1:01:06] » I'm always loathed to interrupt your process, but as you heard Mr. Bros say,

[1:01:10] your solicitors watching right now, but I I don't want to watch any more than I

[1:01:16] have to. Uh quite often you don't have me at your meetings at all. So, it's

[1:01:20] great to have a chance to come here and see you. I think it's very economical

[1:01:24] for you to use me when you need me. I don't think you need me any further this

[1:01:27] evening. So I'm going to go home and watch from online.

[1:01:32] » We we will be happy to excuse you. >> Always good to see you fellas. So thank

[1:01:35] you. >> Take care.

[1:01:37] » Take care. You too. So resolution 2025-08.

[1:01:43] Actually we Todd talked about the comp regional comprehensive plan. That's been

[1:01:49] a two-year process. We received two grants to help fund having the uh person

[1:01:56] work with us to to put that plan together. Again, competitive grants.

[1:02:01] Again, Todd was the person that applied for them. This brought in also though

[1:02:05] the municipalities that we surround. Um it has been before our planning

[1:02:11] commission. It's we've had public a number of public hearings on the comp

[1:02:15] plan, some here, some in other places. Um it basically says here's how we want

[1:02:21] to look at the next 10 years going going forward. And uh you saw pieces of that

[1:02:27] from Todd's presentation. So we would be voting tonight to adopt um that plan.

[1:02:34] That plan is um how many pages you think that is Todd?

[1:02:39] » Many >> over 200. Well over 200. It is available

[1:02:43] on the township website.org on the homepage. If you look uh the full

[1:02:49] text is there as well as the exhibits for future land use.

[1:02:52] » A lot of very interesting background information. Um, if you can stay with

[1:02:56] the whole thing, it it's actually not bad to go through. I did every page a

[1:03:01] couple times and and offered some edits and comments to it, but there was a

[1:03:06] committee who's been working. I think it's been two years, Todd. So,

[1:03:09] » yeah, we had an engineering firm as a consultant.

[1:03:12] » Yes. >> So, um, we're ready to to vote if there

[1:03:16] is a motion to adopt. >> I'll make a motion to adopt resolution.

[1:03:21] » Second. We have a motion and a second that will adopt a comprehensive plan

[1:03:26] which is resolution. This is not an ordinance or resolution 2025-08.

[1:03:31] » Uh we uh are waiting on burrows for this as well.

[1:03:37] I believe >> we adopt it independently though.

[1:03:41] » Right. >> Yeah, we adopt independently.

[1:03:44] Um Shrewsbury Burough I believe has already adopted. I know Glenrock Burrow

[1:03:48] has and I know Railroad Burough has. New Freedom Bureau, I believe, is going to

[1:03:52] revisit it again at their December meeting.

[1:03:55] » Sounds good. >> Meeting I was at, they voted against it.

[1:03:59] » Yeah, but my understanding is they're going to revisit, but I'm I don't work

[1:04:02] there, but that's what I've been told. So, I'm not sure.

[1:04:06] » That was all I had. >> You have you have a motion and a second.

[1:04:10] » All right. Any questions before we vote? Call for vote.

[1:04:13] » I >> I

[1:04:14] » I >> I

[1:04:15] » I votes affirmative. We have adopted a comprehensive plan and my

[1:04:19] congratulations to the committee that spent a lot of days and a lot of time to

[1:04:25] get through all this and put it together. It's I would encourage you get

[1:04:28] a chance to look at it. It's a good document that tells you what should be

[1:04:32] happening in the township as time goes on.

[1:04:36] All right. Find my agenda again. Uh next on the

[1:04:42] agenda, some subdivision and land development issues. The first And I'll

[1:04:46] let Todd kind of lead into each of these, but the first is at 2894 Holly

[1:04:51] Road. So modification request and a final division plan since we have a lot

[1:04:57] of new people with modification request is a builder may come in and say, I know

[1:05:02] your ordinance requires this, but I believe I have a good case for asking

[1:05:07] you to give me some wave. It might be sidewalks or curves. Um, it makes sense,

[1:05:12] we do that. If it doesn't make sense, we must pull them to the coordinates. These

[1:05:17] have already been reviewed by our professional staff. They're people we

[1:05:22] contract and engineer, planning officer, and so forth. They've been approved and

[1:05:28] they've been looked at by our planning commission. And one of the things we ask

[1:05:32] Todd as we go through this, are these recommended by uh for approval by staff

[1:05:38] and by planning commission? >> Okay. Okay, the first plan uh we have is

[1:05:43] on the corner of Country Club Road and Holly Road. Um, of course, the dark blue

[1:05:49] lines is what's proposed and all it is is an adjustment of a lot line because

[1:05:56] currently this property, their lot line comes over to this point. So, what

[1:06:01] they're doing is selling some property to this homeowner. So, they have a

[1:06:05] little larger lot. >> Um, so there's no new development

[1:06:08] proposed or anything. Um the uh first thing you see there,

[1:06:13] there's two modification requests. One is for roadway improvements, widening,

[1:06:17] and so forth, and the other one is for curbs. Uh staff as well as the township

[1:06:23] planning commission recommend to the board that you grant those modification

[1:06:26] requests. Again, because they're existing properties, existing dwellings,

[1:06:30] and there's no development proposed. >> Is there anything outstanding on the

[1:06:34] August 20th CS Davidson letter? Yeah, we'll need to do that as a separate

[1:06:37] motion. But if you approve the plan, um I would make that conditioned upon all

[1:06:42] the comments in the CSDavidson review letter dated August 20th, 20125.

[1:06:47] » I'm sorry. >> be addressed prior to recording.

[1:06:49] » I I jumped ahead. >> That's all right.

[1:06:51] » Um make a motion to approve the modification request for

[1:06:56] 2894 Holly Road and 13432 Holly Road. >> Second.

[1:07:02] » I have a motion in a second to approve the modifications. questions before we

[1:07:05] vote. Call for vote. >> I

[1:07:08] » I >> I

[1:07:09] » I >> I votes to the affirmative. The

[1:07:11] modifications are approved. Next, we're looking at the final subdivision

[1:07:15] approval. >> Make a motion to approve conditional

[1:07:19] upon the outstanding items on the August 20th, 2025 CS Davidson letter have been

[1:07:25] met. >> Second motion and a second to approve

[1:07:28] the final subdivision plan. >> Questions? Call for the vote. I

[1:07:34] » I >> I

[1:07:36] » I >> Can I just clarify? Is everything

[1:07:39] addressed? I think everything's been >> I believe it has. I'll have to check

[1:07:42] with with Megan tomorrow. >> Okay.

[1:07:47] So, >> sorry you didn't get to talk.

[1:07:48] » That's perfect. [laughter]

[1:07:51] Sometimes that happens. >> All right. We have a

[1:07:56] second one which is modification request on the final land development plan. One,

[1:08:01] two, two, court. >> Yeah, I'll I'll pull your plan up here.

[1:08:06] So, >> after all the work she put in on that

[1:08:09] board, >> I have a feeling I have a feeling she

[1:08:12] won't I have a feeling she won't be disappointed.

[1:08:16] » Um, again, I I'll I'll just do the quick overview like we do, but you feel free

[1:08:23] to interject and add anything if you wish. Um,

[1:08:27] this one here is, uh, it's an existing farm. Uh, Mr. and Mrs. Petri own it.

[1:08:33] It's at the end of Deal Court. Uh, this is Interstate 83.

[1:08:40] Um, what they're proposing is a um, poultry barn.

[1:08:46] » Chicken house. >> Chicken house. Poultry.

[1:08:48] » Sorry, I was translated. >> A a chicken house. Um

[1:08:54] anyway, it has been through staff several times and and we worked out all

[1:08:58] the details and the kinks and so forth. Um and it did end up going to the

[1:09:03] township planning commission meeting. The modification request that you have

[1:09:08] before you um includes uh waving the requirement for a preliminary plan and

[1:09:14] going directly to the final uh the embankment width. Um and as well as a

[1:09:20] paved drive. Uh again, this is at the end of Deal

[1:09:25] Court, which is a dead end road. Um everything passes past the Petri's

[1:09:30] Farmhouse. Um and then this is Interstate 83.

[1:09:35] » [clears throat] >> there's no residential developments in

[1:09:37] in close proximity to the property. So, we did not think given that it's

[1:09:40] agricultural that it necessitated a paved driveway. Uh so, for those

[1:09:45] reasons, again, township planning commission and township staff recommends

[1:09:50] to the board of supervisors that you approve the modification request.

[1:09:56] » Did you get that second one, too? Was there only two there?

[1:09:58] » Uh, it's three. >> Three. the preliminary plan, the

[1:10:02] embankment width, and the pave drive.

[1:10:07] » Make a motion to approve the U modification request for

[1:10:12] 12283 deals. >> Second.

[1:10:17] » Is that going to be continued on review by

[1:10:21] » the the final? >> That's the final.

[1:10:25] » All right. >> How many chickens does this

[1:10:31] I'll let you answer that. >> We're building it for the capacity of

[1:10:36] 80,000 white laying heads. >> 80,000.

[1:10:40] » It's a lot of chickens. >> Yep.

[1:10:44] » Very nice. >> I I normally wear a Royal Farms hoodie,

[1:10:49] [laughter] so respect. >> How do you manage odor control?

[1:10:56] » Chickens will smell like chickens. It's true.

[1:11:00] » It smells better than pigs. >> That's stupid. [laughter]

[1:11:08] » Chickens. There's only a certain amount that we

[1:11:11] can do. >> For the record, your name.

[1:11:14] » My name's D Petri. That's my wife, Ellen.

[1:11:17] » Okay. >> And this farm

[1:11:18] » I knew that I just >> This farm in question is directly across

[1:11:21] Interstate 83 from here, which is perhaps Mr. Rogers is concerned about

[1:11:25] theater. I've planned I am currently living

[1:11:30] downwind for the planned building location

[1:11:33] where we moved from. We had a chicken house

[1:11:37] probably 100 ft away from our residential house. Some days it smells,

[1:11:42] but we survive. We've got to eat children. They're all healthy. As far as

[1:11:47] how we control that odor, there's a number of things and it all

[1:11:52] ties into managing a chicken house for economic profit. We maintain the

[1:11:56] ventilation. We try to keep the manure as dry as possible. This plan, if done,

[1:12:02] the chicken house will have a manure storage area at the end of the chicken

[1:12:06] house directly in line with the exhaust fans. Keeping the manure dry is

[1:12:12] essential for various reasons. Odor, keeping the ammonia down, keeping your

[1:12:17] flies down. It all benefits me. Healthy chickens,

[1:12:22] happy chickens, more money occasionally. At 80,000 birds, that sounds like a lot.

[1:12:31] We have two other laying houses that we manage. Both of them have capacity for

[1:12:37] 86,000, which puts us up over the cave level.

[1:12:41] » Are they on different properties? >> They're on different properties. They're

[1:12:45] not here locally. It sounds like a lot of chickens and

[1:12:49] manage, but after a while you get used to it. I look at you guys, your job, I

[1:12:53] think I couldn't keep track of all the legal stuff. You sit here, it becomes

[1:12:57] second nature to you. We're a familyun operation. We have no

[1:13:01] employees. It's just me and my children. And that's the way we'd like to keep it.

[1:13:09] Just interest. That's why I ask. That's perfectly fine. I realize people think

[1:13:14] chicken houses and immediately it goes odors, flies, dust,

[1:13:20] and I agree all those things are present in a chicken house. It's just part of

[1:13:24] the nature. But we do our best to try and limit it. And I will agree it still

[1:13:30] smells better than pigs any disagree.

[1:13:35] [laughter] >> Uh do do we have a second for my motion?

[1:13:38] » I'll second. >> Thanks, B.

[1:13:40] » Any other questions? satisfied. Yeah.

[1:13:45] » Call for the vote. >> I

[1:13:46] » I >> I

[1:13:48] » I motion to affirmative. We have approved the three modifications that

[1:13:51] were requested. Now we will move on to approval of the final subdivision plan.

[1:13:57] » Make a motion to approve the final subdivision for 12283 deal court

[1:14:02] contingent upon all outstanding items on the May 30th, 2025 CSD Davidson letter

[1:14:07] have been satisfied. >> Thanks, Bob. A motion in a second.

[1:14:13] Questions before we vote. Call for the vote.

[1:14:15] » I >> I

[1:14:18] votes for >> I'm really trying to hurry. [laughter]

[1:14:22] » Now we have five to approve the final subdivision as well.

[1:14:27] » Thank you. >> Thank you.

[1:14:29] » Um I guess this is our first process with your township. Would we be getting

[1:14:34] a message from Megan about when to get the plan? Yeah, what we'll do is we're

[1:14:38] required within 15 days to send out a uh conditional approval letter and then u

[1:14:44] Mr. Petri or yourself representing them will need to respond accepting the

[1:14:48] conditions and the conditions will be that everything's addressed on this CSD

[1:14:52] Davidson letter and we'll outline what those items are.

[1:14:55] » So just watch for that. >> All right, sounds good. Thank you.

[1:14:58] » Yep. >> Thank you.

[1:15:03] I know since there are some first time people, we're glad to see that. If you

[1:15:08] have questions of what we're doing and how we're doing it, don't be afraid to

[1:15:12] ask us and try to explain a little bit, but also keep moving, too. Please feel

[1:15:17] free. >> So, we move from there to some

[1:15:21] subdivision. And again, this is where that word subdivision can be confusing

[1:15:26] because it can apply to subdividing land or it can apply to approving um

[1:15:33] buildings or housing or something. So, we're going to move now to um

[1:15:39] um land development when there's a modification request. Oh, wait a minute.

[1:15:43] We just did that. >> No, we're on the uh

[1:15:46] » Yer. >> So, we are now looking at uh actually

[1:15:50] what came up earlier. We're looking at the Miller farm and

[1:15:56] yeah, so um the the three modifications that are requested are the feasibility

[1:16:01] study for water facilities, feasibility study for sanitary sewer facilities, and

[1:16:06] the installation of curb and sidewalks. And again, the reason for all three of

[1:16:09] these modification requests is due to the fact it's simply a subdivision of

[1:16:14] land. There is no development proposed and and none can happen with this.

[1:16:19] So even though it's the township buying this land, we have to hold ourselves to

[1:16:23] the same ordinance requirements. We make no exceptions there.

[1:16:28] » Other questions to um Todd at this time or is there a motion?

[1:16:33] » I'll make a motion for the modification request for 660 Stberry Road.

[1:16:39] » Second. So, we have a motion and a second for the three modification

[1:16:44] requests and this would be the Miller Park expansion. So, just help everybody

[1:16:50] understand it. Questions before we vote? I'll call for the vote. I

[1:16:55] » I >> I

[1:16:57] » I have approved those three.

[1:17:02] » And on the plan, if the board uh makes conditional approval instead of the CSD

[1:17:08] Davidson review letter, this one in particular is the York County Planning

[1:17:11] Commission review letter dated October 3rd of 2025.

[1:17:16] » But we don't need to do that yet because we're

[1:17:20] only doing the modifications. Correct. Oh, did you not vote on those yet?

[1:17:25] » We we we just approved the modification. >> Yeah. So, I'm I'm at the

[1:17:30] » thing about a uh Hold on. >> Yeah. I don't have anything about a

[1:17:36] final for Miller >> for for the uh the comments for the for

[1:17:40] the Miller. >> Correct. Yeah, it was only modification

[1:17:43] request. >> Yeah, you have you have the plan.

[1:17:46] » Got the plan. >> Okay.

[1:17:50] the the comments um they're all administrative that are outstanding and

[1:17:55] it's not a CSD Davidson review letter. It's a York County Planning Commission

[1:17:59] review letter. >> We need to modify the motion we have.

[1:18:04] » Yeah. Yes. >> Include that.

[1:18:06] » You're talking about the plan, correct? Not the modifications.

[1:18:08] » We haven't gotten to the plan yet. >> No, I you

[1:18:12] » we're fine for the modifications. >> Right.

[1:18:14] » Did you vote on the modifications? You're done and over. We're on the plan.

[1:18:18] Correct. >> Okay.

[1:18:19] » So, if you make a motion and a second and vote on the plan,

[1:18:23] » you're right. I'm sorry. >> It needs to be conditional upon the York

[1:18:26] County Planning Commission. >> Correct. October 3rd.

[1:18:28] » October 3rd, 2025. >> Yes.

[1:18:31] » Um, so moved. >> Okay.

[1:18:34] » Second. >> So, we have a motion in the second that

[1:18:38] we approve the minor subdivision plan conditional upon the outstanding issues

[1:18:43] and the York County Planning Commission. What? from October 3rd, 2025.

[1:18:49] » Thank you. October 3rd, 2025. >> I said so move so I would have to say it

[1:18:54] all again. >> That's all right.

[1:18:56] » We got there. >> Okay. So you your motion stands.

[1:19:00] » Thank you. >> I second it.

[1:19:02] » Second question. >> So move.

[1:19:06] » I >> I

[1:19:07] » I >> I move the affirmative. We've approved

[1:19:10] that. Thanks for keeping us straight. >> You're right.

[1:19:13] » Tim left early. We could have used that. >> [clears throat]

[1:19:17] » the the next two um item D and E are simply reapprovals which is a time

[1:19:23] reapproval because if you recall after the board conditionally approves it has

[1:19:28] to be recorded within 90 days otherwise the board has to reapprove it. Um so

[1:19:33] there's still a couple of administrative items that need addressed in both of

[1:19:36] these plans. Um you can if you wish you could do that just in one motion for

[1:19:41] both of those plans for an additional 90day

[1:19:44] » for 20 2446 town and for Phantom. >> Correct.

[1:19:48] » And that's for an additional 90-day approval.

[1:19:50] » Correct. >> Make motion to extend an additional 90

[1:19:55] days for 2446 Htown Road and Phantom Fireworks.

[1:20:01] » Second. I have a motion and second to extend the approval by Approval process

[1:20:09] questions vote. >> I

[1:20:11] » I >> I

[1:20:12] » I >> I defer those plans are reapproved

[1:20:18] and all the reports believe that now brings us to reports

[1:20:23] and the manager reports in front of you. Todd, anything you want to add to it?

[1:20:28] » Uh not really unless anyone has any questions. Um of course you talked about

[1:20:34] grants and so forth. We actually have five different projects that are open uh

[1:20:38] from park improvements to curb and sidewalk to the Miller Park. Um the

[1:20:45] the two of them are Hangtown Park playground improvements as well as Windy

[1:20:50] Hill Park improvements, which is the addition of a pavilion. Um those are

[1:20:55] both moving forward and anticipate to be completed by middle of December.

[1:21:01] » A lot of piles of dirt and construction going on as you drove in here. So that's

[1:21:06] the Htown Park approvements all >> probably too dark then. But

[1:21:10] » what's that? >> Probably too dark at that time. But

[1:21:15] » but other than that >> the sidewalk,

[1:21:20] » where are we on the sidewalk grant? >> Um the engineer, uh Jeff Shu, CSD

[1:21:26] Davidson, they're still doing surveying. They're they're working on getting plans

[1:21:30] together, but um he anticipates that he'll have everything shovel ready as

[1:21:36] far as the plans and bid specs and everything, but we're probably looking

[1:21:39] at uh 2027 before we actually go out for bid in the spring and construction that

[1:21:45] summer. >> And um for the public's benefit, this is

[1:21:48] going to be sidewalks connecting what to what?

[1:21:50] » Yeah, this is to connect. We have the new Royal Farms. We have the

[1:21:55] Audi's. They have curbon sidewalk. There's curbon sidewalk on under 83. Um,

[1:22:00] but going up Wolf Road toward um the Burger King and Cracker Barrel,

[1:22:06] whatever. There's no sidewalk on the whole way up there. And of course from

[1:22:10] 83 up to Mount Eerie Road and up in front of the Walmart and so forth,

[1:22:14] there's no curb sidewalk. So, this project would curb and sidewalk the rest

[1:22:19] of that area. And to give you an example, that's a million dollar

[1:22:23] project. We have received two grants that cover the bulk of that cost and we

[1:22:29] are seeking a third one that we think we have a good chance of being successful

[1:22:34] with that would require or would cover all the costs. If it doesn't, then we'll

[1:22:40] probably appeal to some of the merchants along the way to help fund it. We can

[1:22:45] require that. Um, but we're we will try to do it on a voluntary basis rather

[1:22:51] than enforce it. But one way or another, we should get most of that covered. And

[1:22:55] I believe the two grants for the park, Hang Town, was that a matching?

[1:22:59] » Yeah, Hangtown. [clears throat] Um, for the two parks, we received uh

[1:23:04] $493,000 toward those two.

[1:23:08] And for the urban sidewalk project, we received grants to date totaling

[1:23:13] $760,000. Um then a Miller Park already talked

[1:23:17] about that. And then we have a matching grant to do that master plan update for

[1:23:23] Miller Park >> if if this materializes with the land

[1:23:26] purchase. So >> and these these grants come from

[1:23:29] different places. They might come from your county. They can come from some of

[1:23:33] the conservation districts. They can and the casino.

[1:23:38] » So the first thing is >> some of it's casino funds grants.

[1:23:43] » So the the first thing is we need to make ourselves aware that those grant

[1:23:47] potentials are out there and then hopefully we're smarter than the other

[1:23:51] people applying and can be successful and um we've been very successful. We

[1:23:56] feel good about that in our projects. I see more and more people I think

[1:24:01] hazardly walking along um 851 from somewhere down around 83 up and around

[1:24:08] and that's pretty dangerous place to go. So that's been a high priority. We

[1:24:12] actually tried to get that grant for what three years joined with Shrewberry

[1:24:19] which would allow them to go into the burrow and we were not successful. Last

[1:24:23] year we said we're going to try one more time. the borrow said we're not and we

[1:24:28] were successful and it may be because the dollar value was less by not

[1:24:32] combining with the burrow and hopefully they'll have success on their own as

[1:24:37] well but again uh a lot of kudos to Todd because he's the person we did for the

[1:24:44] sidewalks he's actually a specialist in grant writing because we saw that amount

[1:24:50] of money uh we needed a little help along the way so I am corrected Right.

[1:24:57] » Yes. >> Yeah.

[1:24:58] » And it was our engineering firm CS Davis and the NASA firms and I think they

[1:25:02] helped us be successful in that. >> Anything else on your report or any

[1:25:07] questions that anybody has? Uh you note that we are hosting an ELAP

[1:25:14] class on November 13th on local road safety. Um I think there's probably

[1:25:20] positions if anybody wants to attend that. And you know I think it's here.

[1:25:27] » You have in front of you the zoning officer code enforcement report group of

[1:25:32] the board spent some time in detail going over this earlier. I don't know if

[1:25:36] there are any other questions on it or not. Anything wants to emphasize?

[1:25:42] » No, nothing additional. >> It's a rather lengthy report that tells

[1:25:46] us um what's happening in code enforcement, sewage enforcement, zoning

[1:25:51] enforcement, and allows us to track it and make sure things are moving and

[1:25:56] we're aware of what's going on. Quite a few pages to that report.

[1:26:02] Um, we also get a report from [clears throat]

[1:26:05] uh maintenance, our own maintenance department.

[1:26:09] Anything in there that you probably want to address the speed study. Anything

[1:26:13] else? >> Yeah. The only thing I'll just uh

[1:26:14] quickly mention here, Stealth Road, which is for background, can you kind of

[1:26:19] couple words to the people that are um we did a we have the capability of doing

[1:26:24] a speed study. Some of you folks may have already seen it where we have the

[1:26:27] signs along the road and it flashes what your speed is.

[1:26:30] um we get when we get complaints about speeding or whatever, we'll go out to

[1:26:35] that particular area. We'll set up the the radar signs in both directions and

[1:26:39] for about two weeks, we don't monitor um with the display just to get a base of

[1:26:44] what the speed is. Um but we have found as long as we've been doing them now for

[1:26:49] probably two years at least, if not longer. It's really interesting because

[1:26:53] you have two weeks where you don't have the display showing.

[1:26:57] And when you start showing the display, believe it or not, really doesn't make

[1:27:00] any difference. On average, it reduces per week about one mile per hour. So, if

[1:27:06] it's flashing at you, it doesn't matter. [laughter] So, doesn't seem to standing

[1:27:11] next to you found that. >> Um, but what we normally do is a six

[1:27:14] week study. Um, and what does it does the average daily count of vehicles, uh,

[1:27:20] what the average speed is and what the 85th percentile speed is. And um if it's

[1:27:26] a township road, we could, you know, potentially adjust the speed limit

[1:27:30] signs. If it's a state road, we could make a request to PennDOT, but they must

[1:27:35] do the traffic study and determine whether or not that they'll change the

[1:27:39] signage. Um so at minimum, what we'll do, and what we will do with this one,

[1:27:44] because it does indicate a little bit of a speeding issue,

[1:27:47] » we do notify the Pennsylvania State Police uh of the location. and we share

[1:27:52] our results and then they usually show some presents for a little while to help

[1:27:58] try to curb that. But uh this was on Stealth Road uh route 851 between

[1:28:03] birthday club road and road. The posted speed limit is 40 miles per hour. Um on

[1:28:13] the westbound lane um the 85th percentile was 48 miles per

[1:28:18] hour over the this was actually a 7we study and then on the eastbound heading

[1:28:25] toward road that 85th percentile was 52 miles per hour and again it's posted at

[1:28:32] 40. So we will pass this information along to the state police and ask them

[1:28:38] to show some presence. I think a particular concern is that um westbound

[1:28:44] six or 6% of the cars exceeded 50 miles an hour and eastbound 21% of the

[1:28:52] vehicles exceeded 50 mph. And that's a total of 46,000 vehicles in one

[1:28:59] direction and 39,000 in the other direction. So it's probably only the

[1:29:04] third one we've done that says we need to try to have the police look at this.

[1:29:09] We do not You may or may not know, we do not have a regional police force here.

[1:29:14] The burrows that surround us do. Um, you see your tax bill really go up if we do

[1:29:20] participate. It's about a million dollars a year. State police are pretty

[1:29:24] good. They will follow up and request it. They come to a couple of our

[1:29:28] meetings each uh year to ask kind of what's going on, what's happening. Not a

[1:29:33] lot of crime here. Most of it is here is at the Walmart. And it's as many fights

[1:29:38] in the parking lot as it is people, you know, stealing stuff from the store.

[1:29:43] » But anyway, that's kind of what we do with with that. So you will you also um

[1:29:50] provide a copy of this to the people that bought that.

[1:29:55] » On that space, we had eight of them 81 to 85 mile.

[1:30:03] That seems a little excessive. >> I might have driven past that a couple

[1:30:08] of weeks ago doing 50. >> And it's a sight restricted, too. It's

[1:30:13] you can't see. >> That's one where we put the school bus.

[1:30:17] » Yeah. 80 is excessive. >> Yeah.

[1:30:20] » All right. Thanks, Todd. Anything else? >> No.

[1:30:24] We have the report from CS Davidson who is our contracted engineer and it's a

[1:30:30] several pages of things that he's involved in in tracking and keeps us up

[1:30:34] to date. Um questions that anybody has. He's usually very thorough in this

[1:30:40] information. Um recreation commission for again few

[1:30:47] people that are still here. We joined with New Freedom Burrow to establish a

[1:30:54] joint recreation commission. Again, another grant was involved. We received

[1:30:59] what's what's the grant called? A um >> circuit rider.

[1:31:02] » Circuit rider. So, for four years, we have a grant that covers the cost of us

[1:31:08] hiring a recreation director. Uh full salary the first year, 75%, 50%, 25%,

[1:31:17] and then nothing. years and the goal is that they will establish new programs

[1:31:22] and be able to basically justify their existence five years from now. Um so

[1:31:29] that's been about a year and a half and the uh initial director we hired um got

[1:31:37] married, moved out of the area and had some other opportunity. So we're in the

[1:31:41] process now of hiring um a new rec director. I believe we have

[1:31:48] of interview set up for a little bit later this month to interview several

[1:31:53] people. We were fortunate to get some people fairly qualified. Um Jeff Rol is

[1:31:59] our representative from the board to that commission. Uh there's a

[1:32:03] representative from Burrow and there are two other

[1:32:08] representatives or four from the >> two or three. That's three plus.

[1:32:16] Yeah. And it's three uh one council member and three residents for new free.

[1:32:22] » Did I miss anything in reporting? >> We didn't have any minutes or anything

[1:32:27] from the last meeting because of Gina not not having Gina things have not been

[1:32:33] a whole lot happen. >> Trying to keep some things going and

[1:32:38] look forward to getting a new director. get some new energy in that.

[1:32:43] » I don't think we have anybody from fire and EMS. I don't know that we have

[1:32:48] anything. >> No, I just want to update on the

[1:32:50] markets. Um they're making a lot of improvements. Uh you know, for safety

[1:32:56] » to the emergency exits >> to the emergency exits. The the doors

[1:32:59] have all been addressed. >> Good.

[1:33:01] » Um they're doing a lot of other work as far as some lighting, uh fire pull arms

[1:33:07] and so forth. They're not required to do that because they're a pre-existing

[1:33:11] building, but they're voluntarily doing that. So, they've been very good to work

[1:33:15] with. >> This is the market of Shrewsbury, which

[1:33:18] is the outage market up the road. The fire department had done some inspection

[1:33:23] and found doors blocked and things like that. They came to the township and

[1:33:28] asked for help because it's something that our building and code inspector can

[1:33:32] can enforce. I'd say they've been very cooperative in correcting. I was saying

[1:33:38] the uh uh Shrewsbury Burough Fire Department said they wouldn't go into

[1:33:42] it. Correct. In its current state. >> What have what happens if it really gets

[1:33:47] bad? They issue a um do not enter where no fire department will go in to because

[1:33:53] of the hazards that's in there. So they have been under that status. This last

[1:33:57] time they did go to that they were >> Yeah, those have been lifted.

[1:34:01] » They've been lifted. I I believe p primarily it was because emergency exits

[1:34:07] were blocked or unable to be exited and in the event of an emergency the way

[1:34:12] Brad explained it before um they need to be able to get out if the building's

[1:34:16] coming down they need to know where those exits are. So if they're unable

[1:34:20] to, they're blocked or they're locked and unable. Um he wasn't going to send

[1:34:24] his people in um to >> direct that comes from York County.

[1:34:28] Nobody is allowed to enter. >> Not the public, but the fire department

[1:34:34] that it there you have anything for us?

[1:34:39] We have an emergency manage manager. Let me start over.

[1:34:47] What is that? title management coordinator.

[1:34:50] » I am uh Stan Walters. I live I live at 26 Essex Circle Drive in Shrewsbury

[1:34:56] Burough and I am your appointed emergency management coordinator.

[1:35:00] » There it is. >> Uh we do have a regional EMA. So, um,

[1:35:05] originally I was the EMC for Shrewsbury Burrow and then your volunteer uh

[1:35:11] departed for some reason or another and Todd sought uh council from Cindy at the

[1:35:17] burrow and said, "Who's your emergency management coordinator?" And then, uh, I

[1:35:22] agreed to become your appointed coordinator if you would pursue

[1:35:26] regionalization. So today we have a regional emergency management agency

[1:35:31] that comprises the township and all four of the bureaus previously mentioned that

[1:35:36] are encapsulated in it. And that allows us to have a single plan uh single

[1:35:41] staff. We're very fortunate to have two emergency operations centers. one

[1:35:46] located here at the township building and the other one uh is the Shrewsbury

[1:35:51] Burough uh council room turns into an emergency operations center when we open

[1:35:57] all the cabinets at at one end of it. And if anybody would like to see that,

[1:36:01] they can uh contact the municipality they live in and they can get a hold of

[1:36:06] me. I'm happy to give tours and show people uh the the emergency operations

[1:36:11] centers and give a brief overview of what we do. uh tonight you should have

[1:36:15] before you I I know it was a last minute this afternoon a report so I don't know

[1:36:20] if Todd >> so they do not have it in front of you.

[1:36:22] » Okay. All right. So Todd didn't have a chance to uh we can access.

[1:36:26] » So just to review it. So during the month of October uh our drought

[1:36:31] conditions uh not only return but they worsened from what they were. I know I

[1:36:37] know a lot of people uh probably have a misconception of well we had two inches

[1:36:41] of rain last week but that that's not enough to alleviate a drought. U so when

[1:36:46] you do get the report you'll have a map that is produced uh by the state uh

[1:36:52] showing the condition we're in. It's not terrible. We're at D0 out of uh it goes

[1:36:56] to D4. So we're at the early stages but we're having some very dry weather now.

[1:37:02] There's a line of storms that's going to come in, but there have been some

[1:37:06] concerns about fire here in the last couple of days. Uh we're continuing to

[1:37:10] review the EOP to get that uh to you for uh promulgation so you can readopt it

[1:37:17] before the end of the year. Um, we're also still continuing to work on

[1:37:23] getting all the radios upgraded so that we can talk directly to the three fire

[1:37:28] departments on their u uh station channels. Uh, and uh we're circulating a

[1:37:36] doodle poll to try to get enough interest in the elected officials

[1:37:41] training that normally occurs in February of each year. Uh Bill James

[1:37:47] from the York County Office of Emergency Management is willing to come down here.

[1:37:51] There are uh some dates uh mentioned in the email I sent out that you'll see

[1:37:56] once you get that. Um he'll do the class down here if we can generate enough

[1:38:02] interest to do it. We don't have to wait till the dead of winter in February or

[1:38:07] go all the way to York to do it. So hoping to get some interest in that.

[1:38:13] We are waiting on shelter agreements from uh two uh entities here. Uh the

[1:38:20] York County Office of Emergency Management is basically seeking to

[1:38:24] expand uh shelter capacity uh in the county beyond what the Red Cross is

[1:38:31] capable of doing. They rely a lot on schools and there's no way they can't

[1:38:36] force a school to give up space in a school like during a school day for a

[1:38:40] shelter. So, they came up with an agreement. They've approached uh Grace

[1:38:45] Fellowship on the top of the old Kmart Hill and also the new Freedom Burough

[1:38:51] Community Center as possible uh shelter locations that we could use in the event

[1:38:56] that we needed a mass shelter of some kind. Uh and those are pending.

[1:39:03] uh the committee that oversees me uh authorized the change in our uh cloud

[1:39:08] storage from 5 gigabytes to two terabytes. I just need to come over and

[1:39:13] uh catch Todd when he's here and has free time and we'll go in the ELC and

[1:39:18] and make that update. Uh accomplishments, we we conducted the

[1:39:24] fall community exercise at the Shrewberry Burough EOC on October 7th

[1:39:30] and we had representation from all the municipalities for that exercise. It it

[1:39:35] was run by county through Zoom and uh basically they gave us a scenario that

[1:39:42] required um the use of uh a PIO function or public information officer. The

[1:39:51] scenario was there was a large community event about to start a couple days and

[1:39:57] they were expecting outside agitators. Uh so there was additional security

[1:40:02] being requested. There were also a lot of rumors and disinformation on social

[1:40:07] media. And so the exercise we had was for about 20 minutes was to tabletop

[1:40:12] that information and figure out what we would do as EMA and elected officials to

[1:40:19] make sure the event didn't have to be cancelled. And so it was a good walk

[1:40:23] through of um our some of our checklists and thoughts about PIO functions.

[1:40:30] Uh we also took part in the national night out that was held on the carnival

[1:40:35] grounds behind station 61 in Shrewsbury. Uh we used our canopy for the first time

[1:40:42] and uh two of us successfully set that up. But we had uh information from Puma.

[1:40:48] We had coloring books from kids for kids uh from the from the Red Cross. Uh they

[1:40:55] have like a series of of coloring books uh that use a a little penguin called

[1:41:00] Pedro. Something that you know it's not scary to kids, but it teaches them about

[1:41:04] emergency preparedness and like a fire in the home and things like that. So we

[1:41:09] were handing those things out to people who were there. The helicopter and the

[1:41:12] fire trucks were more interesting >> well than than we were. But there was

[1:41:17] free pizza [snorts] and free uh uh Rita's uh ice was there too. How well

[1:41:23] was it attending? >> Uh, you know, the it's sponsored and

[1:41:28] hosted by the police department, by Southern Regional. Um, I mean, they

[1:41:35] it's hard to gauge. I mean, maybe there was a couple thousand tops.

[1:41:40] » Okay. >> I mean, because people came and left,

[1:41:42] » right? >> And uh but you know, the fire department

[1:41:46] demonstrated uh using the jaws to cut up a car that

[1:41:50] they had there. Um they had several K-9 demonstrations.

[1:41:55] Uh somebody flew in a helicopter and they were allowing people to get in, sit

[1:41:59] in the helicopter. They weren't getting rides, but you know, you could get in it

[1:42:03] and see the controls and stuff like that. Then there were a number of um

[1:42:08] community organizations that were there uh handing out things. So yeah,

[1:42:14] » I I thought it went well. And unlike unlike the prior year, there was no

[1:42:19] windstorm that came along and tried to blow all the canopies away, which was

[1:42:23] good. Um, so, uh, if you have any questions now or after you see the

[1:42:29] report, um, by all means, let me know. >> Thanks.

[1:42:32] » For those left, Stan is a volunteer, a very hardworking volunteer. I took my

[1:42:38] hat to the hours he spent and I did participate in the exercise he was

[1:42:44] talking about, but always stay. We appreciate what you do.

[1:42:49] Uh I think we have you have a report I think from the last sewer committee. Any

[1:42:54] questions from that?

[1:42:59] [snorts] Okay. [clears throat]

[1:43:02] And um we did um I just add we did have a uh ad hoc ordinance committee meeting.

[1:43:08] the first one we've had in a while identified some ordinances that we think

[1:43:13] we need to prioritize to begin to work on things for like data centers and um

[1:43:20] especially data centers and artificial intelligence that are [clears throat]

[1:43:25] reappearing or appearing everywhere done that I did the planning commission and

[1:43:32] zoning hearing board typically there are no questions but

[1:43:39] And uh that brings us to all business of our young chairman report. So

[1:43:43] » I say it wasn't on the uh the agenda, but yes.

[1:43:47] » Where's that? >> The board chair report wasn't on the

[1:43:50] agenda, but yes, >> I didn't see it.

[1:43:54] » It's under supervisor comments. >> Yeah, it's here.

[1:43:57] » My apologies. >> It was

[1:44:00] there. It overlooked it. The only thing I would point out that might be of

[1:44:05] interest is um learned from the LC class LGAC meeting. Penn State University is

[1:44:13] giving a one hour Revit webinar which means like a Zoom meeting on data center

[1:44:19] on November 19th and since that's a item of concern and high priority for

[1:44:24] ordinance if anybody gets a chance to tune into that if you go on their

[1:44:27] website uh you register it's easy to do that. I've done that and then they send

[1:44:33] you the information so you can um sign into the website.

[1:44:38] I think it's from 11:00 to noon I believe.

[1:44:43] That's kind of the highlight I would from mine. Any comments from anybody

[1:44:48] else? All right. Now we have some old

[1:44:53] business. I think these are basically all updates from Todd. So

[1:44:58] » I already addressed the first one. deal with parks,

[1:45:01] » park improvements. >> Yes, we have covered that. That's right.

[1:45:04] » Library. I saw they're having a book sale. That didn't fill me with

[1:45:08] confidence. >> Um, I can give you an update on that.

[1:45:13] Paul Smith has basically been forced to become a branch. So, they will not be a

[1:45:17] member library. They are in the process of trying to we had a meeting earlier

[1:45:22] this week with >> our idea. Um they um are trying

[1:45:28] basically to negotiate the best deal they can and in addition to the contract

[1:45:33] they need to sign. They're also trying to to get a memorandum of understanding

[1:45:39] which would put additional requirements on the

[1:45:43] library [clears throat] system how they support uh Paul Smith. Uh so both

[1:45:48] libraries are going to become branches. Um it's either that or it's just

[1:45:52] independently which they really can't do that.

[1:45:56] » Um so we're trying to get the best deal out of that they can. Their hours will

[1:46:01] definitely be reduced. Don't know how much yet. Staff will probably have some

[1:46:05] reduction and so will some of the other programs that they offer, but I think

[1:46:10] they're committed to do the best they can and we will need to be looking at um

[1:46:16] how the way we fund things going forward. We don't have any money due to

[1:46:21] them anytime soon. It's

[1:46:25] » already been dispersed, isn't it? >> Yeah, we the

[1:46:29] » Yeah, but we'll do a final one in December.

[1:46:32] » So, what we do, we want to make sure that's to the friends of the library.

[1:46:36] Otherwise, it just goes to the county library.

[1:46:39] » Um, and maybe even earmark it for some project. But, so before we cut a check,

[1:46:45] Todd, make sure we talk I'll verify that. But let me uh

[1:46:55] » Okay. >> Are you doing that now?

[1:46:58] » No, I I'm I'm making myself a note. >> Okay. So, you're up again on the uh

[1:47:04] contract completed, I guess. >> Yeah. I don't have a whole lot to to

[1:47:07] report since last month because Art and I finally got were able to get together

[1:47:12] yesterday and um we have a couple things I'm going to shoot a letter off uh if

[1:47:17] not tomorrow probably be Monday or Tuesday to the SPCA try to get some

[1:47:21] additional information. So I will definitely have that for our December

[1:47:25] meeting because we'll have to make a decision at that point in time.

[1:47:28] » Okay.

[1:47:31] » Boundary road. uh Boundary Road. Just let you know that

[1:47:35] I did talk to the uh property owner uh again and he is going to actually get

[1:47:41] his property surveyed. So once he has that completed, he's going to contact

[1:47:45] me. >> Uh we'll meet with him and and kind of

[1:47:49] see where that falls >> in what was boundary road at that point.

[1:47:54] » And that's the only property would have to be surveyed.

[1:47:56] » Yeah. >> Yep.

[1:47:58] » Okay, sounds good. Any questions on any of

[1:48:03] those to Todd? Um, then we have uh new business and I

[1:48:09] guess the main thing there is that we authorize advertisement of the proposed

[1:48:13] 2026 budget. I'll make a motion that we authorize advertisement of the 2026

[1:48:20] budget. >> Second.

[1:48:24] » Take your pick. I think it was a tie. >> Was the second?

[1:48:28] » I'll give it to Jeff. >> Don't matter. We have a motion and a

[1:48:31] second to authorize advertisement of proposed budget for 2026. Question.

[1:48:37] We shall vote. >> I

[1:48:39] » I >> I

[1:48:40] » I >> I votes affirmative. We have voted to

[1:48:44] authorize advertisement and that will come up for us to approve in December.

[1:48:49] Right. >> Correct.

[1:48:51] » Has to be done in December by the NBC requirements. I was going to say if it's

[1:48:56] a new supervisor, it's able to be reopened in January, but

[1:49:01] I I don't think that qualifies in this. >> Correct.

[1:49:05] » You are correct. >> Just for the record, congratulations

[1:49:09] again, Bob, on your landslide. [clears throat]

[1:49:14] » Uh we have three storm order agreements. They're all our standard agreement and

[1:49:19] unless Todd feels otherwise, I think we can handle all those in one motion. I'd

[1:49:23] make a motion to approve the storm water agreements for one Makulla Drive, 224

[1:49:29] West Forest Avenue and 1724 Htown Road. >> I'll second it. Questions before we

[1:49:37] vote. I'll call for the vote. >> I

[1:49:39] » I >> I

[1:49:40] » I >> I post the affirmative. Approve the

[1:49:44] three storm water agreements. >> No correspondence this time.

[1:49:46] » No correspondence this time. I've got one new business.

[1:49:51] Um, can we add new business?

[1:49:56] » He can comment on it. You just won't be able to deliberate if it's something to

[1:50:01] deliberate on because it's not on the agenda. But he could certainly raise it,

[1:50:05] » right? You can bring it up, but we can't vote on it.

[1:50:07] » Correct. >> Go ahead. Okay.

[1:50:11] Pennsylvania PATS PSATS they have a model ordinance available for

[1:50:16] implementing supervisor compensation and u it's based on the compensation is

[1:50:23] based on the township population and ours is 5,000

[1:50:29] to 9,999 population category. The current caps

[1:50:35] paid to the supervisors are $2,500. And this is I don't know the exact

[1:50:42] number of years, but this has been in effect for 10, maybe 15 years.

[1:50:46] » 15 probably. >> Probably 15 years. Okay. So I'm I'm

[1:50:52] thinking that um I'd like to make a proposal to increase that act 94 of 24

[1:51:00] which uh came out in October 31st one year ago in 20 October 3124

[1:51:07] uh they posted new maximum thresholds for supervisor compensation. So, in our

[1:51:13] group, the new caps effective December 1st of 24 were $4,190.

[1:51:21] So, I'm proposing um if if I'm not sure we'll have it tonight, but for sure put

[1:51:28] it on December's agenda. Okay. That um

[1:51:35] lost my train of thought, but basically I'm proposing that we adopt the new

[1:51:40] caps. Um, who knows, could be another 10 years, 15 years before it's changed

[1:51:45] again. Now, the way this works is if we were to vote on it, you know, in the

[1:51:50] near future, it doesn't take effect for anybody until

[1:51:56] they're newly elected. Okay? So, for so u I'll just use some examples. I'll just

[1:52:05] say for myself, I've got four years I've got three years left to go before I run

[1:52:10] for election if I choose to do so. So, I would still stay at $2,500

[1:52:16] as the rest of us because I think you and I are the next one up for election

[1:52:21] » until we were elected again. But I just feel that

[1:52:25] um it's worthwhile to make the adjustment that's been allow now allowed

[1:52:31] after 15 years or so. And you're saying we can't have a

[1:52:38] motion? >> No, we have to have it on the agenda.

[1:52:41] Have a motion. >> So I'm proposing that we and voting yes

[1:52:45] that we put it on the agenda for next month.

[1:52:48] » All you have to do is >> Yeah, I I can put it on the agenda. So

[1:52:51] yeah, >> just for general knowledge, we did look

[1:52:54] at this probably about a year ago and the board elected not to um

[1:53:00] » and increase and again each individual option but um

[1:53:05] » 6 to8 months >> it couldn't affect any could not affect

[1:53:08] the city. So >> who knows I may not [snorts] be elected

[1:53:12] again I may not run again but I just think as a policy that it's worthwhile

[1:53:17] that we make the pay adjustment. Okay,

[1:53:22] we'll see that on next next month's agenda. Um, don't have

[1:53:28] any correspondence, but you do have I think everybody had a schedule or a

[1:53:32] table of kind of the things we'll be doing year end. So, it's a pretty

[1:53:37] lengthy schedule. So, I gave everybody a copy of that should have been in the

[1:53:41] things you have if not >> this.

[1:53:46] » I did not. Thank you, gentlemen.

[1:53:56] » You didn't look. Um, so we do have an opportunity for

[1:54:00] public comment. One gentleman left. So, I don't know if he wishes to address the

[1:54:04] board on anything. >> Yeah. What the heck?

[1:54:10] » Actually, I'm not from your township. From a neighboring township.

[1:54:14] » Well, we'll listen to you. We just we'll only listen with one of your good

[1:54:18] neighbors. >> Name's Jack Coug 2601 Opal Heights

[1:54:22] Drive. The only modular home in that trailer park. Um first of all, you want

[1:54:29] to hold on to him forever because Grant writers are hard to come by. We know.

[1:54:33] » Okay. Well, thank you. [laughter] >> I mean really we have how many more

[1:54:38] years Todd? Two. You can't control your parks that knowledge on success being

[1:54:44] » you got you guys gave me a lot of pats on the back for you know as as a former

[1:54:48] public servant >> the successor is sitting right here so

[1:54:51] » okay >> you better be taking

[1:54:56] » but uh first of all I'm impressed with your facility here compared to I

[1:55:00] probably attend no less than six meetings a week

[1:55:04] » what I'm trying to do is learn more about the area I'm fairly new to the

[1:55:07] area only three But I'm learning how you all operate

[1:55:11] differently but yet still alike. Uh but I'm impressed with your facility

[1:55:17] because some of them are just I can't hear them. They have no microphones.

[1:55:22] You guys got >> Well, we've been in this for for um

[1:55:26] » two little over two years. >> A little over two years. before we had

[1:55:30] our offices about a mile up the road and our maintenance group was here and that

[1:55:36] that building was in pretty bad shape. So, long story short,

[1:55:39] » that's where most of them are in the maintenance buildings.

[1:55:42] » We said that that's where it was before long time ago.

[1:55:46] » So, we said, well, let's bring them all together.

[1:55:48] » And we kind of over the our time knew what we thought would work, whether it's

[1:55:54] monitors or a nice area both for our employees. We employ

[1:55:59] Are we up to eight now outside? >> 7. So we employ

[1:56:06] I guess 11 10 11. >> We have 11 full time now.

[1:56:09] » It's a nice place for them to come to work. They can feel if you go into the

[1:56:13] maintenance section, it looks just as good as this does. It's it's got a lift

[1:56:18] and a wash bay and all those things. So we thought we knew we knew we wanted

[1:56:23] lobby space where people could wait. We have a really nice conference room next

[1:56:27] door. So those things can be going on. So,

[1:56:30] » what's funny is many times I've been by here, I didn't know it was back here.

[1:56:34] » I saw the park look beyond the park. But, uh, and the

[1:56:38] other thing is is I like how you explain to people what

[1:56:44] you're doing even though some people are wondering what you're doing, but but

[1:56:49] you're explaining to people what they're looking at on the agenda and stuff.

[1:56:54] Other them don't. They just roll right along the agenda. So, I got to

[1:56:57] compliment you guys on that as well. >> Thank you.

[1:56:59] » I noticed no women on the board, but >> we have one. She resigned.

[1:57:05] » They have We've got two on the planning commission now.

[1:57:08] » Do you Well, I'm also looking at a planning position.

[1:57:12] » And we did have um >> We did have two

[1:57:14] » up up into two. Okay. >> We had two.

[1:57:17] » Yeah, there were two on >> in the early like

[1:57:21] » Sue and Cynthia 10 years ago. >> Yeah. like 20 minutes and then they went

[1:57:26] off and Ann was on. >> Yeah.

[1:57:27] » And then Ann resigned. >> I don't want to waste your time. You've

[1:57:32] been here long enough. >> Well, don't waste time when you

[1:57:35] [clears throat] tell us good things. [snorts]

[1:57:37] [laughter] >> Yeah. We'll even extend it to six or

[1:57:39] seven minutes if you're going to say nice things.

[1:57:41] » Oh, well, >> I'm kidding. We're not allowed to make

[1:57:43] exceptions. >> I got to get home, too. I have a

[1:57:46] [clears throat] >> Well, thank you very much for saying

[1:57:48] those things. Someday, if you have the time, come up. They'll give you a good

[1:57:51] tour. Actually, I've talked to him on the telephone already

[1:57:56] » and I talked to someone on the commission

[1:58:01] » about the bees about the bee ordinance that somebody was trying to introduce

[1:58:05] somewhere. >> Well, that may have been um

[1:58:08] » Bur Shrewberry Burrow. >> That was Shrewsbury.

[1:58:11] » But but I but no, but I I called both because

[1:58:15] » I'm learning, you know, the biggest thing I'm learning is there's little

[1:58:17] tiny towns that are now burrows. I always thought they were towns, but

[1:58:20] they're burrows. Where where did you live before here?

[1:58:25] » Before here, um on a waterfront down in Baltimore County.

[1:58:29] » Oh, that's good. So So you're learning the difference between a Commonwealth

[1:58:33] and So York County is about the size of Baltimore County. Yes.

[1:58:38] » It has 72 independent municipalities that are self-governing.

[1:58:43] » Believe me, I've been very >> very little county level support.

[1:58:47] There's no county police force, right? >> Um you know, I think there's any

[1:58:51] [clears throat] county road department is it?

[1:58:55] » So that's the so every so it makes it a little difficult because we all have a

[1:59:01] little difference in our ordinances. We are all self governing but Pennsylvania

[1:59:06] looks at driving it down to the low level and that's that's us. We're the

[1:59:10] low level. What people don't realize when they go to elections that we

[1:59:15] probably have more to say about what's going to happen in the quality and

[1:59:20] safety later, >> you're right. And that's that's one of

[1:59:25] the biggest things I've learned. I I used to work for a House of Justice

[1:59:28] member in Maryland and u and everything was so widespread, you know, nothing

[1:59:34] came down local and uh >> they both have advantages. They both

[1:59:39] disad and they both have their disadvantages.

[1:59:41] » We try to do more and more in combination with the burrows we surround

[1:59:47] so that um we're not duplicating or if they need an extra dump truck to pave or

[1:59:53] we need one or we have some equipment we buy and share because none of us need

[1:59:59] » can afford it. >> We're trying to do the recreation

[2:00:02] council that we're starting again. All those things we're trying

[2:00:05] » Yeah. because I'm used to on the other side of 83. used to hire and and that

[2:00:09] operation and like you say, they hired a guy and he's doing a great job of

[2:00:13] raising money for them to keep sustaining his salary.

[2:00:17] » So, but >> so we're trying to do more of that. But

[2:00:19] the downside is we're certified three volunteer fire departments, so we have

[2:00:25] to try to support them. >> Yeah. We were certified two EMS

[2:00:28] departments. So we have to try to So that makes it where the burrow but the

[2:00:34] distance you the difference you probably seen burrows are smaller, more compact,

[2:00:39] probably not as much population as a township, but it's compacted together.

[2:00:44] » We're spread out >> and they don't have most of them don't

[2:00:46] have agricultural lands. >> That's right.

[2:00:50] » And that's why I I mentioned about about new freedom. Um they were concerned

[2:00:55] about that. county commission pointing them out to

[2:01:00] be a growth area and that's why they turned it down.

[2:01:05] » They were really upset about that. >> I think there was some uh some

[2:01:08] misunderstanding about that.

[2:01:10] » Yeah. Because um they they were part of the the group. They attended public

[2:01:15] hearings some of their elected officials and um from what I understand what I

[2:01:20] have heard anyway um I believe there was some misunderstanding. So, I know one of

[2:01:25] their planning commission members uh is going to be attending their next meeting

[2:01:30] and talking about it. So, hopefully can clear up that misunderstanding.

[2:01:33] » Yeah, they were upset. Well, again, go home.

[2:01:39] » Nice meeting you all. >> You very come back anytime.

[2:01:43] » I will be. Unfortunately, there's three meetings all tonight.

[2:01:47] » You know, you had to have to decide which one to choose and yours I hadn't

[2:01:50] been to yet. >> So, that's why I came. So, I'm glad you

[2:01:54] made that choice. We appreciate your proud work.

[2:01:56] » Thank you. >> Motion to

11.05.25 Board of Supervisors Meeting, Shrewsbury Township, York County, PA

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