[0:00] Okay, today is Tuesday, September 8th, 2026.

[0:05] We are here with the Open Space Land Management

[0:09] Open Space Land Management and Planning Committee um at 454 College Highway. Um

[0:17] roll call. Connor Flurry. I >> Bill Price I.

[0:21] » Jabro I. >> Martha Kaine.

[0:25] Okay, first item on the agenda is approved meeting many minutes from

[0:30] previous meeting.

[0:42] » Anybody want to make a motion? >> I can make a motion to approve the

[0:46] minutes of the last meeting. >> I second the motion.

[0:49] » Call vote Conor Fer. I >> Price I.

[0:52] » John Petro I. Mark

[1:11] signing twice. >> Yeah.

[2:11] that. >> Mhm.

[2:13] » Okay. We [clears throat] didn't have this item on the agenda, but it's going

[2:17] to be under uh kind of other matters here. Um it is the discussion or

[2:25] approval of the master plan action items. provided by the master plan

[2:30] committee for um well for for us the open space committee.

[2:37] Um this is provided by Norm Shver. Um we kind of went over it with him I think it

[2:43] was last meeting uh he was here and we haven't really had the time to discuss

[2:47] it or go over it. Um yeah, you guys thoughts on on this

[2:56] [clears throat] >> as we discussed in the last meeting when

[3:00] Norm was here. Um so the priority they gave the items the

[3:06] action item 3.3 was their number one priority and the one that they would

[3:09] like us to tackle in this coming year if we don't defer it, which they said which

[3:14] he recommended we do defer it to uh focus on the OSRP. Um, but like I said

[3:21] when I in the last meeting I asked him if he could kind of clarify some of what

[3:24] this means and so we could maybe make some progress on

[3:28] it in the in the background even if we defer doing this for the coming year but

[3:33] you know continue acquisition and promotion of the wildlife corridor

[3:35] spanning the borders between South Lake and Grandby and Granville and Westfield

[3:40] annual meetings with land owners etc. Um,

[3:44] has anybody ever done this before? Do we have some ongoing contact? Is there

[3:48] something we can work from? Do we have a list of who these property owners are?

[3:52] So on and so forth. And and Norm said he was going to try to get us a little

[3:58] background information. I don't know uh when or how we can expect to get that,

[4:02] but you know, some clarification on that and what we're trying to accomplish, I

[4:06] think, would be helpful. Um but I am also all for taking up uh Norm's

[4:13] suggestion that we defer focusing you trying to accomplish this this year with

[4:20] the NFL also. >> Yeah.

[4:23] » But like I said, you're right. If we if there's anything we can be doing and get

[4:25] a little bit of traction on it and knock off some aspect of it, at least figure

[4:29] out what it is we're supposed to be doing.

[4:31] » I think it's a good middle ground. You know, we can push it off but still kind

[4:34] of work on it. Sure. Now, if it's easier than we think, we can kind of approach

[4:37] him with it sooner. And if it's something that it seems like it's kind

[4:41] of more than we can take on, we'll just keep it, you know, right in the

[4:45] background. I was thinking that we would look over

[4:50] these and I agree with deferring whatever you know we side but

[4:56] » you know he talked about um trans reading the action item and deciding you

[5:01] know if if this should be cancelled if this should be transferred you know if

[5:06] he had several different things on his handout so I started looking and I

[5:11] looked at um 1.9 there where it talks about organized free workshops on

[5:17] innovative and regenerative regenerative yes agricultural practices blah blah

[5:23] blah and it's very very close and that one's assigned to open space committee

[5:29] and it's very very close to the one um under you know the supporting role ones

[5:35] there's a supporting role one that's 3.2 two econ under economic development.

[5:42] » Yeah. Yeah. >> It's almost identical. It starts out

[5:45] almost identical and there's a few little things that are tweaked

[5:48] differently and that one they've given to the agricultural commission

[5:54] with us having a supporting role and then then they gave us this one which is

[5:59] nearly identical >> agriculture. Yeah. So that bothered me

[6:05] and I went to you remember Jen wouldn't remember but this little paragraph

[6:10] remember when Connor you got that from Diane Gale we were looking at they had a

[6:16] whole big write up on the open space and recreation plan committee and then

[6:23] they had this little paragraph for us the open space land management committee

[6:28] that supposedly the select board had approved

[6:33] that uh you probably remember that we had this charter. The conservation

[6:37] commission tried, Sabrina tried. They came up with some really cool things and

[6:40] we looked at it and we gave, you know, feedback to them on it and they sent

[6:44] that to the select board and the select for came up with this. And you might

[6:48] remember we were going over it going, wait a minute, the language here, it's

[6:53] assigning the open space and recreation plan committee to actually do these

[6:58] annual things. And here it just says something about be involved in. You

[7:03] remember that whole thing? Yep. >> Um well, I I um started looking at it

[7:08] and I I I took this paragraph and I just sort of

[7:12] spaced it out so that um it's easier to read.

[7:19] » Um it's the exact same verbiage. It's just, you know, and I'm thinking there's

[7:24] nothing in here that says anything about preserving working farmland or anything

[7:31] about farmland in under scope of work. Um, and that sort of bothered me. So,

[7:38] I'm thinking, you know, my first thought was looking back at this 1.9

[7:43] if the charge from the select board is this, if this is truly official and

[7:50] Connor thought it was adopted because you remember I asked, "Is this adopted?"

[7:54] Because it had a blank there. And Connor said, "Yeah, Gail, you know, Diane Gail

[7:59] had given us this." And so, I sent an email to Christy Mayadette. I haven't

[8:04] heard back from her yet to ask cuz I tried researching to find the one that

[8:09] would say adopted April 26th or whatever, you know, couldn't find it

[8:14] anywhere in the records. And so I thought Christy could help me look it

[8:19] up, but and this is probably a long- winded

[8:23] thing, but I'm thinking something like talking about regenerative agricultural

[8:29] practices. It's not under our scope of work. So I think that this should be

[8:34] transferred back to the agricultural commission, you know, or just cancelled

[8:40] because the agricultural commission already has one that's just about the

[8:43] same written the same. >> Gotcha.

[8:45] » So what I was thinking is in addition if we all agreed in addition to telling

[8:51] we'd like to defer for a year for good reason that we could also give them some

[8:55] feedback on those. I almost wonder if they're going to run into a lot of what

[8:59] they ask of us while we're doing the open space and recreation plan itself.

[9:03] It's like, oh, okay, this is on here. Like, I wonder if a lot of it overlaps.

[9:07] And if it does, then we might even knock a good part of this out just by doing

[9:10] the the recreation plan. >> Um, yeah. Well, it's it's hard to say

[9:15] because we haven't done the survey yet and we haven't had the public meetings,

[9:19] right, >> to get the feedback, but I don't think

[9:22] that these types of things are things that are going to come up by the public.

[9:26] The other three sort of fit with our scope of work,

[9:31] » right? >> Um, you know, where it where it it talks

[9:34] about helping the conservation commission with implementation of

[9:37] related goals, but it doesn't specifically state that we're to go out

[9:42] and do X, Y, and Z, you know, working with land owners and finding these

[9:47] lands. It doesn't really say that. The scope of work really talks more about

[9:52] maintenance, about looking at our open space properties and our natural

[9:58] resource management and determining areas of maintenance, keeping upkeep,

[10:03] maintain and improve trails and facilities, plan and organize the work

[10:07] groups to do that work. Seek funding as necessary. Manage community engagement.

[10:14] um and then be actively involved in leading the open space and recreation

[10:18] plan report um and then assist conservation

[10:23] commission with implementation of related goals. So it seems like the

[10:26] select board which is giving us our charge

[10:30] has either left out a lot of stuff that the old open space committee did.

[10:34] [laughter] I I don't know. I I just went back and

[10:37] looked at that and then looked at what we had been assigned. Now, keep in mind

[10:42] when this master plan thing was done, there wasn't an open space committee at

[10:47] all. So, maybe it was a generic in the master plan. It just says open space

[10:51] committee, >> right?

[10:52] » And maybe they went back, the committee went back, the master plan committee

[10:56] went back and just looked at what did the old open space committee do, you

[11:00] know, [laughter] and maybe that's why we got to sign

[11:02] these things that don't match necessarily what the select board says

[11:06] we're supposed to be doing. I don't know. So, so Jen, I mean, not to put you

[11:10] on the spot or to have you speak for the agricultural commission, but do you

[11:13] happen to know if the agricultural commission is on this item 3.2? Do

[11:19] » so. Um, we have our own top four. It's not one of them.

[11:24] » Okay. >> But we do already do some workshops like

[11:28] at the library and things like that. So, >> um,

[11:32] » innovative and agricultural practices. >> Right. Right. I mean, Yeah. Okay. That's

[11:38] not a strong suit of mine. >> We had land for good. We had um you know

[11:43] farm American farmland trust um at the library. We'd have we'd have those

[11:49] they're not regular meetings but open and you know free workshops and things

[11:55] like that. So, like you said, Connor, I think it goes hand inand when we start

[11:59] doing a plan, we're we're working together because um it says to work with

[12:05] open space >> land management. So, as we get going in

[12:09] our plan, I think >> so, right? Hopefully, we can both both

[12:13] » parties can work together and we can kind of both.

[12:18] » So, I think I agree that we that we could be a supporting role. I just I'm

[12:23] just I because I've worked for state and city governments before, you know,

[12:28] they've always put out that framework. This is your boundaries. If you step

[12:32] outside, you better ask permission. This is your So, I'm always looking at what

[12:37] are we authorized to do first, knowing that the master plan implementation

[12:43] committee, the people who worked on the master plan had no clue of this. we

[12:48] didn't have this until right >> April of this year. So um so they were

[12:54] saying things like that. >> I'm also very sensitive to the fact that

[12:59] our time is so very limited. It's so difficult for us to find time even to

[13:02] get out to visit a site, never mind to then organize a workg group, go out and

[13:08] do that. So to in my mind maintaining and improving what we already have

[13:16] is my top priority. That's how I think. And all these other things are like, you

[13:22] know, >> yeah,

[13:23] » side things. And for the other ones that talk about working with land trusts and

[13:28] and working with land owners, we're so new, you know, we don't even have a

[13:34] relationship with a land trust yet. We haven't invited them to a meeting.

[13:38] you know, we don't know what they're working. They may already South Land

[13:41] Trust may already have some of this stuff they're working on.

[13:45] » Um, I don't know if they know about the Wildlife Quarter. They may, you know.

[13:50] » Hello. >> Good.

[13:52] » All right. >> Going.

[13:54] » Great. You guys having a good time? >> Oh, yeah. We're not building the open

[13:58] space and recreation plan. This is our land management meeting. So, we're

[14:02] happy. [laughter]

[14:05] » Thanks for stopping in.

[14:09] you know, so that's why I think I really agree with what you both have said about

[14:13] deferring um with our other work on this recreation plan. We don't have time, I

[14:19] don't think. Now, I'm just saying giving my opinion

[14:23] » to try to make those relationships and and the things that we would need

[14:27] » to be right in the meantime in the next few months if we can at least start

[14:30] gathering of who these are and who we should be talking to and whatever and

[14:34] get the intro. You know, we we all know that this stuff takes months, it seems

[14:38] to >> yeah,

[14:39] » start gaining any traction and but if we can

[14:42] » get the ball rolling a little bit >> and if we do that there the other three

[14:46] are kind of all related. I think when I read them, they all seem kind of related

[14:51] about land conservation, uh, working with local land trusts. That one, that's

[14:56] the 1.5. And then, um, an annual meeting, um, to

[15:01] update the parcels of land, that's very very much the same thing except that

[15:06] that would be the Southwood committees we'd be meeting with. And then the last

[15:10] one about the wildlife corridor that would bring them all together really the

[15:15] land trust the maybe the mass fishing game to find out what they think and so

[15:20] forth and so on. So if we once we get rolling on this I can see we could knock

[15:25] them out one year after another without any any problems once we made our

[15:30] established our connections and so forth and so on.

[15:34] » Yeah. One of our um tasks on agricultural commission is one we're

[15:38] going to be there's two different ones. One for um discussing invasive species

[15:44] and what one with irrigation. So we thought those were important for our

[15:49] farmers. Um, but the that coincides with 1.9 with the regular free workshops to

[15:57] educate the public on these things so they can help reduce

[16:03] um um invasive species and things like that. So it will go hand in hand

[16:09] eventually with the with that one. So, as we work together and as we start our

[16:15] plan is um Becky from PVCP Pioneer Valley Planning Committee um

[16:23] she's meeting with us so we're going to start our meetings too. So, it's going

[16:26] to I looked at our plan and it kind of aligns with

[16:29] » is that on here as a supporting role for us or is that all under that um 3.2 too

[16:35] that you were just talking about that in addition to the free workshops on that,

[16:40] you wanted to have the invasive species and the irrigation

[16:45] stuff. Where where is that? Is that >> Oh, that's on the agricultural list.

[16:49] This is not the >> Yeah, but what I'm asking is is that one

[16:52] that they got us in a supporting role. I don't know if you've had a chance to

[16:55] look at the supporting role. >> Sure. Which one?

[16:58] » I think you supporting role on the last one we closed out together.

[17:03] » I remember 1.4. Yeah, that was >> I don't think that you were sporting on

[17:07] those funny you would think that invasive

[17:11] species and and then the water level and the irrigation

[17:15] » would fit very well with open space land management but again they weren't

[17:20] thinking open space land management >> maybe

[17:22] » you know when they when they did this. So

[17:25] » I forget which ones um that we are currently the top four that we're

[17:29] working on but um I know that one isn't one of them at this time. So, um, we

[17:35] closed the ones out together, the 1.4 one, because we do have that annual, uh,

[17:41] farmers forum, which kind of includes all that, the chapter 61 and things like

[17:45] that. >> I made a note on that.

[17:47] » But, yeah. >> Yeah. And the other ones that are

[17:51] talking their their um, conservation commission that we're supporting.

[17:54] » Yeah. We're meeting tomorrow so I can look up what um, you know, where that

[17:58] aligns with our our list. >> Yeah. Um, so we can go from there for

[18:03] sure. >> Yeah. Just I can see a real close

[18:06] relationship there. We're managing invasive species on our conservation

[18:10] lands. You know, the farmlands have the same problem probably.

[18:14] » Of course. Yeah. >> More than likely.

[18:16] » Yep.

[18:19] » Yeah. I uh unfortunately we we weren't around when [laughter]

[18:25] this was done. >> Yeah. Exactly. So anyway, that was my

[18:29] thought that maybe in addition in to telling them we would like you to defer

[18:34] for a year and you know it it seemed Norm was saying

[18:39] that that's what he would recommend too that they'd be fine with that that we

[18:43] could give them some feedback in terms of the four and particularly suggest to

[18:49] them um that 1.9 organized free and regular

[18:54] workshops on innovative and regenerative agricultural practice is that that one

[19:00] [clears throat] um either be cancelled or transferred.

[19:04] » You I mean you know you're right that so much of it is duplicated

[19:08] under the agricultural commission. Now that one happens to be out of the the

[19:12] one here for the egg commission is under the chapter for economic development and

[19:16] under us it's under the chapter for open space but right there are certainly

[19:21] » a great deal of overlap. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um,

[19:27] and I I don't unless unless this charge that Diane Gail gave us was changed and

[19:34] and they put under their preserve working farmland or something like that

[19:39] for us as a major scope of work, >> right?

[19:42] » You know, I personally would rather not do that. leave that to the agricultural

[19:48] commission be a supporting role for them and focus because there's so few of us

[19:55] focus on the main things that they did give us the maintenance and the writing

[19:59] the management plans and and all of that.

[20:02] » I have a question. Um these four did you did you all vote on having these four as

[20:08] your most important? >> These were the only four that they gave

[20:12] us. And they they only put a few in the master plan for the open space because

[20:17] there wasn't an open space committee. >> Sure.

[20:19] » They were hoping in fact one of the action items in that master plan was to

[20:25] develop a permanent ongoing rather than a ad hoc a permanent ongoing open space

[20:32] land management type of committee. >> Sure. Y

[20:35] » So that's why I think there were a few things that I thought, oh, if we do get

[20:38] that committee, >> that's probably where that should fall.

[20:42] » Okay. And I don't agree with them personally, you know, according to this

[20:49] from the select board. >> Sure. Yeah.

[20:51] » Um I I think there's a lot of things that if I if I were queen of the forest,

[20:58] if if I wrote the master plan that I would give an open space land

[21:02] management, I would be putting a lot of those maintenance knowing that our lands

[21:08] haven't been touched. We haven't been walking boundaries, you know, and that's

[21:12] legally that's required for in those conserv when we have a conservation

[21:16] restriction, but we've not been able to do that because we don't have the people

[21:20] to do that. I mean, that seems to me that that's the stuff that should be in

[21:24] a master plan for us. >> Sure. Yeah.

[21:27] » Um along with, you know, what they the other three which they do give us.

[21:32] » Yeah.

[21:35] So, we want to vote on postponing this for now.

[21:39] » Yeah. >> I make [clears throat] a motion to

[21:41] postpone the master plan action items um until further notice.

[21:47] » I second them. >> Uh roll call vote. Conor Flurry. I Bill

[21:50] Price. >> Ira.

[21:53] Sorry. >> Can I?

[21:55] » All righty. >> Then we will get something to the

[21:58] conservation commission to Norm saying that we will take him up on his offer to

[22:01] let us defer this for here. >> Yeah. Yeah.

[22:03] I was going to um volunteer if you want to write up something like that because

[22:11] it does say if you want to transfer or cancel an item. I just think it would be

[22:16] good to give them a heads up and even ask them when we defer for a year, you

[22:20] know, tell them that we did look at the four action items assigned to open space

[22:26] and we are concerned, you know, about that one particular one

[22:32] » and and and any information or clarification they can give us on so

[22:37] that we can get going as well. >> Yeah. So rather than just saying we we

[22:40] would take you up on your offer and we defer, but maybe a little bit more

[22:44] information and I'd be happy to draft up something that everybody could look at

[22:48] and and then you could vote, you know, cross out this sentence. No, we only

[22:54] want we've decided we only want to defer. That's all we want to say. What

[22:59] do you think? >> Yeah, I can do that. We can vote on it

[23:01] next meeting. >> Okay.

[23:03] » And then the the receiving party has to agree to accept too as well.

[23:07] » Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's why I think a question to

[23:10] them telling them, but the agricultural committee already has

[23:14] » an action that's almost identical to that one. So, how should we cancel?

[23:19] Should we mess with the agricultural commission and see what they want to do?

[23:23] » Right. Right. >> Maybe maybe they will dovetail them

[23:27] together and you know um I don't know. They they look so similar. I don't even

[23:32] think you need to. >> Right. Exactly.

[23:36] » Okay. So, next item under new business is discuss Martha's report of Woodland

[23:43] Ridge.

[23:46] Martha, you provided a you went out did a site visit on Woodland Ridge open

[23:50] space area there in a subdivision and wrote us a nice report.

[23:56] Well, I'm I'm hoping that the only reason I did that is to just jot down

[24:02] some notes for myself and I thought I'll share it with all of you so that you'd

[24:06] have a chance to read my thoughts before the meeting to save time, but not to

[24:11] discuss it by email. I know we are not supposed to do that but hoping that

[24:15] others would go too and so that it wouldn't just be my opinion because the

[24:21] way I look at a property as a former nature preserve manager I'm looking at

[24:25] it you know invasive species and what are the wildlife doing and is there any

[24:31] danger here for people [laughter] so I have a very narrow view someone

[24:36] else may look at something different >> yeah I mean it's just a couple acres of

[24:41] fairly flat reasonably open land and river is mowing those paths through

[24:45] there is doing a very nice job to make it accessible which is which is great

[24:49] but so right what what does what is the concern or what problem are

[24:55] we trying to fix over there >> I don't know if you saw the emails going

[24:59] back and forth but I had asked some questions

[25:01] » right >> and Sabrina came up with the deed which

[25:04] I've been hopefully between the long email chain or the email that I also

[25:09] just sent that everybody >> I wasn't in that chain for the deed cuz

[25:12] I just saw the first deed one today. >> Okay.

[25:14] » With the deed in there. I wasn't I was like, "Where the hell is this deed thing

[25:17] coming from?" So I Yeah, I wasn't in the conversation with that.

[25:20] » Yeah, that's why I sent a separate email. I I have trouble with Outlook

[25:24] when I used to do Outlook where state government, you know, it was much easier

[25:28] to keep up with those long chains and make sure the attachments were going and

[25:32] coming and um but with this with my Gmail now, I I just get so confused. So,

[25:38] I thought I'll send a separate email to everybody to make sure that everybody

[25:41] did get that deed. It's it's a bunch of >> What do we need the deed for?

[25:47] » Well, the first question was how many acres are really out there? The deed

[25:51] tells us that we have 32 something.

[25:56] » Yes. >> Yeah. 32.14 acres. And it talks about

[26:00] the parcels. We can go to wherever and look up exactly where those parcels are.

[26:06] So, I have no idea. I know I didn't look at 32 acres when I was out there.

[26:11] » No. No. >> Um I only looked at part and I did go

[26:15] off and look by Great Brook and um saw the extremely steep embankments there

[26:23] which where erosion could very easily occur. And I could see a child. There

[26:26] was a child's fort kind of there. And I kind of looked and went, "Oh boy, if I

[26:31] was a mom, I wouldn't want my kid this close to the brook, you know, where he

[26:34] might tumble or she might tumble down." >> I didn't see the fort, but I popped in

[26:38] somewhere and and saw the brook and right it was was significant drop on

[26:42] that on that side. It's very very steep. >> The other thing I wanted to know is is

[26:46] there a conservation restriction or does the deed spell out anything that that we

[26:52] should know? And it really didn't. And from the conversation email conversation

[26:57] with Sabrina, uh there is no conservation restriction. It was pretty

[27:02] much she said cuz I suggested maybe we take this to the town lawyer and ask

[27:07] them, you know, for some guidance in terms of what we can and cannot do with

[27:12] the property or what the residents can and cannot do. It was just turned over

[27:16] to the conservation commission. And so basically Sabrina said that you know

[27:23] it's up to the conservation commission to decide you know what happens there.

[27:29] And then you know I had also asked well did the conservation commission um have

[27:34] they already given a document to the residents and said you know hello

[27:39] [laughter] you know we are the ones who are

[27:41] managing this land or whatever responsible for the land and um these

[27:46] are some things we'd like you to know about or have any meetings with them or

[27:50] and she wasn't aware of anything like that. So, we've got this property out

[27:54] there where um I don't even know where all the parts are. Um and I have like at

[28:02] our last meeting, I expressed liability concerns.

[28:07] Joe Blow is out there with his mower and he's mowing the pass and all that. What

[28:11] if the mower turns over and Joe Blow is hurt? You know, um could they sue the

[28:16] town for that? Uh what if um they decide they want to take out some trees or um

[28:24] they want to make a soccer field there. Let's let's take out that field and

[28:27] let's make a soccer field for our kids, you know, and keep it mowed. Um what's

[28:33] to stop them from doing that? You know, is would the cons would they would they

[28:37] know to even ask the conservation commission for permission to do that?

[28:42] So, I the more I thought about the property, the more I got nervous and um

[28:48] being a former property manager for a a municipal land, um I'm thinking I I'm

[28:55] not comfortable because I don't have my little here's what you can and can't do.

[29:00] [laughter] You know, here's and uh I think we're very very lucky that the

[29:07] the residents have taken very good care of that. Uh there were things I was

[29:12] seeing um there's quite a bit of calorie pear coming in that very invasive um

[29:18] people know it as the Bradford pear and it's definitely fruing. there were pear

[29:23] fruits on there. So, it's it could be dispersing. And then when I saw a lot of

[29:29] people get confused between sumac and tree of heaven

[29:33] » from a distance, you know, if you don't get up close, you might think because

[29:36] they have the penately compound leaves that same kind of leaf shape. Um, so I

[29:42] got right up and I thought, "Oh my gosh, that's a whole cops of of tree of

[29:47] heaven." And that's one of the host trees for the spotted lantern fly.

[29:51] » [laughter] >> we really ought to take that out of

[29:54] there, you know. Um, we don't want that to become a place where the lantern

[30:00] flies are attracted, you know, and and then from there their population grows

[30:05] and then they're invading everywhere, you know. So, there were some things

[30:08] like that that I was seeing um that um I'm thinking how in the world are we

[30:15] going to do this? you know, we don't have any money to um do herbicide

[30:22] applications to hire someone to do that. We could go and just cut, you know, some

[30:28] of the tree of heaven and maybe even take out a couple of calorie pairs. I

[30:33] don't know. Um but that's something that you would have to repeat repeat. Um, so

[30:40] I I was just having a lot of questions and and anxiety in myself thinking I I

[30:47] don't want to touch anything until I find out more from somebody. So that was

[30:51] why, you know, I was asking the questions and this was really all that

[30:56] Sabrina could find was this this deed saying that it's a certificate of title.

[31:03] So, so this property kind of came to our attention or was brought up because

[31:08] someone >> Yeah, I was just looking for that

[31:09] information. Um, >> yeah. Do we know who contacted and what

[31:13] they were contacting about? >> I have to dig deeper in my email, but

[31:17] she basically had just asked Sabrina, you know, what was going on with that

[31:20] middle area and I guess kind of had some concerns about the condition of it. um

[31:27] to to follow that up. I think that's kind of our next thing is to have her in

[31:30] here because like like Martha was saying, do they want to put a soccer

[31:33] field there? They want to keep it, you know, the same, you know. I think

[31:36] getting kind of her insight on what she wants to do with it or neighbor wants to

[31:41] do with it and then approaching a town lawyer at that point about, you know,

[31:45] » can and can't do what, >> right? Right. Kind of what's there and

[31:48] what's not and all that. Um >> is there any signage that it's a town?

[31:53] There's a split row fence on the front face of it, but not all not

[31:58] all the way around, but just like portion. It's more decorative than

[32:01] anything. >> Right. There's no signage that I saw,

[32:04] but >> yeah, it's kind of the neighborhood

[32:06] almost. >> Yeah. And and again, it's not the full

[32:09] 32 acres. I don't know where all >> I think it's six because it breaks it

[32:13] down here. It says there's >> um three parcels. One's 24, one's six.

[32:19] Um

[32:22] it three. >> Yeah somewhere too.

[32:26] » One parcel consisting

[32:30] is two for a total of 32. >> Wow.

[32:33] » So the back area is probably 24. That center is probably six. That seems like

[32:37] six. >> Like they develop the houses 32 acres

[32:42] total. >> No. Well, there's there's there's open

[32:44] space land behind those houses. That's part of that. So maybe all of this

[32:48] forested. >> Yeah. One consisting of 6.8 acres, a

[32:52] second parcel consisting 24 >> and a third

[32:57] 3997. So

[32:59] » but they're all like together. >> It doesn't say that. It just says it's

[33:03] shown on map >> and there's a map in the deed's office.

[33:07] So, I'm thinking they are not continuous cuz like what based on what Connor was

[33:11] saying, he thought some of that woods behind the resident's homes might be

[33:16] part of it, too. Huh. >> No, they are. I know they are.

[33:19] » Okay. >> Cuz I I agree with Sabrina

[33:22] » before you guys. And it part of that or >> that's what we need is a map to show us

[33:27] exactly where. But I agree. I think the 6.85 985 is probably

[33:33] um the um the meadow area in there perhaps and a little piece down by Great

[33:40] Brook and then maybe the other >> Hello.

[33:44] » Look at the Sabrina grabbed the thing. >> Oh, hey. [laughter]

[33:48] » Boom. >> I didn't want you guys keep being

[33:52] tortured. I I'm like I got the map. >> Oh, okay.

[33:57] » So, here's Woodland Ridge. Um, can you see my mouse kind of wiggling around the

[34:01] screen? >> That's Woodland Ridge. The the large

[34:04] open space parcel in the middle >> is right here. But actually, if you see

[34:08] to the left, you can see smaller map that sort of encompasses the entire open

[34:14] space property. So, it does kind of encircle the subdivision. We've got one

[34:20] little spot right um down here, number one um 23 right here. That's also open

[34:26] space. This little area here, that's open space. And it looks like we have a

[34:30] sliver right here. It's It's a It's a wonky shaped parcel split up into three

[34:36] separate parcels. >> Yeah.

[34:41] » Gotcha. >> And all one building there between 29

[34:44] and 30. >> Yeah. I was just looking at that too,

[34:46] Phil, and I was thinking when I was driving around, I was trying to figure

[34:50] out how would I get to the woods. You know,

[34:52] » there's a there's a an area between two of the houses with a split rail that is

[34:57] on what we believe is open space property that is I think it's that

[35:02] sliver where her mouse is. >> I thought maybe that was somebody's

[35:05] driveway the way that I couldn't see something that looked

[35:09] » that looked obvious to me. Maybe maybe the land owners are using

[35:16] are doing something. >> Oh, interesting. There's actually a

[35:19] driveway in one place, you know, that I thought looked like that might be where

[35:24] I could access, but I I don't recall seeing something that looks like that.

[35:28] This is an older map, too. So, >> there's split split rail there now.

[35:33] » Yeah, there's split rails right where my mouse is. Um, okay.

[35:37] » I guess this area actually washed out >> a few years ago badly, so I don't know

[35:42] how accessible the back portion of the property is from here, but this spot is

[35:47] open space. And right now the neighbor, it just looks like the neighbor or both

[35:50] neighbors are just kind of mowing it and there's like some lawn decorations, but

[35:54] it is open space. >> Okay.

[35:56] » Where was the brook you guys were talking about? Where is that?

[35:59] » It goes around the whole thing. >> I mean, where did you guys enter?

[36:02] » Oh, was it over here? >> I kind of Yeah, kind of in here

[36:06] somewhere. >> Oh, okay.

[36:08] » Actually, let's see. So

[36:12] » what is what's the thing that what says number

[36:17] one? >> What says number one?

[36:20] » There is number one on two sides there. >> You you just highlighted what was number

[36:24] one. Yeah. >> This

[36:28] » So that that's our piece that you you've got the mouse on.

[36:32] » This what this piece is not ours. >> Oh by Mark Fletcher.

[36:39] » Okay. You can kind of over to the left, you can kind of see the property

[36:43] information. So, owner name, um, Mark Fletcher, and he's on 29 depot.

[36:49] » Okay. >> Okay. So, we walked on somebody's

[36:52] private property. >> Yeah, that's I looked over into also.

[36:55] Yeah. >> I thought that was ours. Well, I'm glad

[36:58] nobody had a gun. [laughter]

[37:03] » It's between 20 and 30. 29 and 30. >> Yeah.

[37:07] » Is the access. >> Yep.

[37:09] supposedly. I I didn't It wasn't obvious to me. I kept looking, you know, where

[37:13] that that culde-sac is up there. I can't read the numbers.

[37:17] » 50 and something maybe. I thought maybe there. Um

[37:21] » you could probably also access it from the tip of the

[37:25] » Yeah, that's what I was looking at. But it had a driveway there today or the

[37:30] other day when I checked it now. That's not apparent on that map. There's like a

[37:35] driveway or Oh, there's the driveway. Okay.

[37:38] So off to the left of the driveway. >> Yep.

[37:42] » Okay. >> So that's between 29 and 30.

[37:46] » This is addresses. >> Okay.

[37:49] » That's between 29 and 30 split fence. It looks like 30 yard, but it's not.

[37:52] » Okay. >> Interesting.

[37:57] And it looks like it's all wooded wooded property. No, the the middle part is all

[38:02] like a natural prairie or meadow >> and then the larger

[38:06] » the big out the larger piece the 24 acres or whatever that one is wooded.

[38:11] Yeah. >> Okay.

[38:12] » And that's where you can see great brook going through.

[38:15] » Mhm. And I I don't know if the sides of the brook are as steep on this side as

[38:22] they were on the other side, but [clears throat]

[38:29] » maybe another way to access would be through this sliver. But I mean, it's

[38:32] kind of hard to know where the property lines are.

[38:35] » Like you're basically Yeah. You're walking in someone's backyard. So

[38:39] » Yeah. >> And I don't I don't know. Oh, that's

[38:42] Dave. >> You can do it. That's David Williams

[38:45] house. >> That's whose house? Whose house?

[38:48] » Williams. >> David Williams.

[38:51] » We could get permission. We could get permission basically. Just a well just a

[38:56] heads up if we really want to go back here because he used to be chair of the

[39:00] conservation commission. >> Okay.

[39:08] » I'm actually going to see what this place looked like. Let's see if we have

[39:12] something in the ' 90s. Yeah, even back in the 90s it was an open field right

[39:16] here. >> Oh, wow.

[39:19] » So, I don't know when it was cleared. Um I don't we don't have anything later

[39:24] than the '9s on on this um platform, >> but and I guess just over the years

[39:33] things just started to grow. It looks like those trees were actually planted.

[39:37] » Um what was that 200 five? It looks like they were planted.

[39:43] » Yeah, th those are native th in those two strips, but the other trees growing

[39:48] throughout the fields are the tree of heaven and the calorie pear.

[39:52] » Um >> it's actually the first time I saw a

[39:55] tree of heaven was there. I I didn't realize it, you know, because it does

[39:58] look it looks just like um >> sum.

[40:02] » Yeah, the stag. >> Yep.

[40:04] » But there is sumac there also. Oh, yes. The whole truck with the big head. Yeah.

[40:09] » Yeah. That's why I kept looking at it. doesn't look like what? And so I I

[40:13] actually went right up to it and realized what I was looking at then was

[40:16] tree of heaven. I thought, how did it get here? Usually you see it along the

[40:19] highways, you know, >> and I don't know if it's true that you

[40:23] shouldn't cut those down. Cutting them down somehow spreads that that's not the

[40:26] right way to get rid of it. And I don't know that for

[40:29] » if you cut them, I think that that they usually say, you know, you you um apply

[40:33] your herbicide to the cut stump, >> okay,

[40:36] » right away. If what I know of tree of heaven is that it creates an aloto toxin

[40:41] in the soil that would kill off other vegetation that tries to grow around it,

[40:46] you know, and it sort of takes over. But it would have an underground root

[40:51] system, I'm guessing. And you know how those mother trees do. If some of the

[40:55] little ones are cut, they he'll just send she'll just send

[40:59] » stuff to others. Gotcha. [laughter] >> But all those invasive things, they grow

[41:04] back very vigorously. Okay. >> Uh what we did on on my nature preserve,

[41:08] some of them were really large and we just girdled them because they weren't

[41:12] by trails where they weren't danger trees were they died from girdling that

[41:17] they would drop limbs on somebody's head, you know, but that was how we did.

[41:22] Um and then that way we didn't have to get the tree people in to with

[41:25] chainsaws. >> Now most of this stuff was very small

[41:28] though, right? I mean, >> right. Most of the stuff I saw was small

[41:32] » or just a >> some of it some of it was bigger. There

[41:34] was a couple of mother trees there, but not huge. It hadn't been growing for,

[41:40] you know, >> uh for a long time.

[41:43] So, um and then there's just like I said in my report, there's a lot of

[41:47] bittersweet in there. Um multifllora rose, also autumn olive, different types

[41:54] of non-native honeysuckles. As you would expect being in a development like this

[41:58] where you know stuff can come in from the home that there's so much non-native

[42:04] stuff that people plant in their yards and then it just comes into the

[42:08] » the natural area. So, there's a lot of that. And my opinion on the poison ivy

[42:13] was it looked like the um the mowing um really had solved that issue already

[42:20] where um the poison ivy has not jumped the path there in that tri that apex

[42:26] where those two trails come together. Um now it is expanding I think somewhat out

[42:31] the back and I stood there's another trail that doesn't show up on this map

[42:35] that goes around the back there. Um, and um, the poison ivy hasn't reached that

[42:41] yet, but [clears throat] I'm guessing it probably will eventually, but as long as

[42:45] they keep those paths mowed, you know, I don't think it's going to escape from

[42:50] its little box of mode. But if they don't mow it, then,

[42:56] you know, I didn't see it as a real hazard. If it was growing up into the

[43:02] trail and had jumped the trail on the other side, I'd say, "Oh my goodness."

[43:07] But trying to get rid of that's a huge patch right there.

[43:10] » It's so cool. So it's trail out. It doesn't take much for someone just to

[43:13] brush up against it. And >> true. But that's also true at

[43:16] Sophonowski and that's true of many of our other properties as well. We have

[43:20] huge amounts of poison ivy growing all over the trails. Yet we're not going out

[43:25] there going we have to eliminate every bit of it. Um you know as long as you

[43:31] control it you know by keeping the trails making

[43:34] » that neighborhood. But I just feel like it's more traffic than Svenski would be.

[43:38] I mean, yeah, you know, being in a neighborhood like this, especially with

[43:40] someone mowing it weekly, it's >> more of a traffic area than Svenowski or

[43:45] other properties, >> you know. I I don't know. I don't know

[43:49] what the traffic is either place. Um um I can't really judge that very well.

[43:56] You know, how often and are they young children trying to play in the fields?

[44:01] Um, I guess my my question my my thought would be how would we if we wanted to do

[44:07] something with that poison ivy, what would we do? I don't think just throwing

[44:10] down a tarp um if we cannot use herbicide on it

[44:17] um to really kill the roots and all of that. you know, just throwing a tarp on

[44:23] part of it is we just assume send a brush brush hog in there just to knock

[44:28] it back and then um keep knocking it back.

[44:34] You know,

[44:40] I just just feel like if if we worried about every patch of poison ivy at North

[44:44] Pond Conservation Area Sophanowski and all the rest, that's already pretty well

[44:50] managed, you know, we're we're taking our small resources and and spreading

[44:57] ourselves very thin. However, you know, these

[45:00] » people brought to our attention too reason. So yeah, I think it should be

[45:04] dealt with this. >> Yeah. Well, you know, and I've been

[45:07] bringing attention to Sophenowski, too, but we don't have time to deal with it.

[45:10] I'm just saying, you know, that think about

[45:15] what, you know, where we want to put our resources. It may be that these

[45:20] homeowners have done such a great job that we want to continue to really

[45:24] support them however we can, you know, so that they will continue to

[45:31] do what they're doing at least that much,

[45:33] » right? And um if they're begging us for help, then not from a land management

[45:39] standpoint so much, but from a public relations standpoint and knowing that in

[45:44] order to manage that property, we need volunteers. We need to have a

[45:48] neighborhood group that will help us on each of the properties. And this group

[45:53] has been doing just a great job. They may not know about invasive species and

[45:59] any of that, but you know, they obviously love the property. And so, um,

[46:07] doing it from that standpoint, whatever we could do, even if it is just putting

[46:12] a tarp over part of it, that's another way to look at that is is it's public

[46:17] good public rel relations and keeping them on our side.

[46:24] Well, I guess we need to reestablish contact with

[46:28] » that kind of that person >> and and see what what their concerns

[46:32] were and and what we'd all like to try to accomplish there.

[46:35] » Yeah. I'll give her a call before next meeting, see if she can make next

[46:38] meeting and kind of pick her brain some more about,

[46:41] » you know, what what the goal is. >> Yeah. And find out if there is an HOA.

[46:49] Um it sounds like that she is a legitimate leader there, but um I just

[46:55] want to make sure that um it's not one resident who's

[47:00] complaining and everybody else is fine or one resident has this concern, but

[47:06] then there's 10 others that have a different concern that also needs to be

[47:10] addressed. So it would be really good to, you know, to find that out,

[47:14] » right? >> Does she speak for everybody or

[47:17] » Yeah. And it's okay if she just speaks for herself, but it would be good to

[47:20] know. >> From my understanding, there isn't an

[47:23] HOA. I think we had already asked um this is the same woman that she

[47:30] approached us about the split railing um fence.

[47:34] Um, we had asked if her and a couple of other residents would want to form sort

[47:40] of like a management land management group and um, it didn't seem like they

[47:46] were interested in that type of commitment.

[47:48] » Um, as far as like maybe like someone else sort of like organizing like

[47:54] volunteer days and inviting residents out, maybe that's something more on the

[47:58] level that they're able to commit. but like actual like forming a group and

[48:03] having regular meetings and and and putting that type of effort into it, it

[48:08] didn't seem like they were interested in that.

[48:10] » That's kind of what we're for. So, if they could if they could at least be a

[48:13] resource for us to report back to us, that would be a huge help.

[48:16] » Mhm. What if they do want us to deal with the

[48:20] poison ivy? Seeing the large nature of that patch,

[48:26] do we have money that could be used to either somebody goes in and bush hogs

[48:33] that somehow and then [clears throat] we could put a tarp down or it's going to

[48:38] be an eyesore. It's going to look ugly and some residents may not like that,

[48:41] but we don't really have the monies, right? And we probably don't want to put

[48:46] down Roundup on something. >> No. Well, for any type of herbicidal

[48:53] treatment on town property, it needs to be done by professional and that's

[48:58] » and we even with the brush hogging, I don't think we have the the extra funds,

[49:03] especially this year because we just got cut another 10%. Last year we got

[49:08] » cut 5%. So, right now we don't really have a lot of the funds. So, when we

[49:12] were talking about like how do we deal with this um poison ivy patch, I think

[49:17] the reason why we chose tarps was because it seemed like the cheapest

[49:22] thing >> that we do at the time. Well, because

[49:25] » right >> these are these are old pool tarps that

[49:27] basically have, >> you know, expired and their main

[49:31] function of being a pool tarp and we could just basically try to smother the

[49:35] the poison ivy with them and and just kind of see if it works or not. I mean,

[49:40] if it doesn't, then we haven't spent any money on it. Um, would probably be an

[49:45] eyesore, but that's also one of the reasons why we sent out a letter earlier

[49:49] this year to all the residents saying, "Hey, you know, this is what we plan on

[49:54] doing this year, expect to see a tarp being put down um

[49:59] on the open space property." >> So,

[50:03] » and they were okay with that. They didn't they didn't come back to you and

[50:06] say no. No, [laughter] >> I got I've got no complaints from any of

[50:11] the any of the um residents over in that area. The only thing I had gotten was um

[50:18] a message from somebody saying, "Why haven't we done it yet?"

[50:22] » Okay. [clears throat] >> That I mean, no one else came back. I'm

[50:24] sure like, you know, poison ivy is not fun. So, they're probably happy that

[50:30] it's it, you know, being addressed in any way that we can address it right

[50:34] now. Um, if we look back at the map, um, 2015, no, 2015 was a horrible map year

[50:42] or aerial imagery. Um, we can see in 2019 and it's I don't know what time of

[50:48] the year this was taken, but you can kind of see maybe this is where where it

[50:52] is. >> And in 2021, it's you can see it's

[50:56] slowly getting bigger. 20. >> Yeah, it's definitely expanding. I I

[50:59] agree with that because I I went I went out there and looked at it and took

[51:03] pictures >> and that's more like how it looks now.

[51:07] » Um and it and I compared it to just Google map, you know, when you Google

[51:12] for directions, it looks smaller there, but it it is really big. So, um, couple

[51:18] little pool tarps really isn't going to do very much unless we just tarp off the

[51:24] parts that are where that apex or where the two things come in. Just try to

[51:29] » maybe just select some areas mother for right now. Um,

[51:33] » yeah. >> Yeah.

[51:37] » And at least they would think we're doing something, right?

[51:41] » Yeah. I I really don't think that's going to

[51:45] help very much, but I would think um Sabrina, we could do that even now or or

[51:52] in the fall too, right? And just keep keep it over the winter. Just keep it on

[51:56] there. >> Oh, yeah. I would say keep it on there

[51:58] for, you know, I figured at least we use AI for this like two years or something.

[52:04] I think just leave that for as long as we could smother it and

[52:08] » maybe maybe then like move on to the next

[52:12] » spot. Move a little more north and just keep smothering it and smothering it

[52:16] » with the little pool tarps that we have. Like maybe maybe some of these residents

[52:20] I actually I don't know if any of them have pools, but maybe they have old pool

[52:24] tarps that they want to donate and we can just

[52:27] » tarp as much as we can, >> you know?

[52:30] Well, I'm very allergic to it, so I I'm not going to get involved with jumping

[52:35] in the middle of that patch. It's a big patch and it's pretty tall.

[52:39] » Um, so it should be people who aren't highly allergic that would get in there

[52:44] and do that. >> Um, or suit up in some kind of hazmat

[52:49] suit or something, >> right?

[52:51] » Because it's it's it's healthy. [laughter]

[52:57] It's a native plant, but it is invasive. >> It I know I'm surprised that the I don't

[53:03] know if we have deer on this side of the town, but you would think that deer

[53:07] would be all over this. It's an open field. Um I think we have deer more on

[53:12] the west side of town. I haven't seen over here.

[53:16] » I've never seen deer eating poison ivy. They probably do, but I personally have

[53:21] never seen it. I've seen the deer at my my nature preserve and we had a lot of

[53:25] deer. Um they they would eat the um um what what is that holly? That is

[53:32] vomitarium. We had different types of holl that they weren't supposed to eat

[53:37] » native ones and that actually make you vomit. And they would eat those. They

[53:41] were even eating the the myrtle the not the crepe myrtle but the um the wax

[53:46] myrtle you know which they weren't supposed to eat. They were eating that,

[53:49] but they never ate my poison ivy. >> Yeah. Well, maybe the other stuff tasted

[53:53] better than the poison ivy. Maybe. >> You know what we really need is goats.

[53:58] We really need goats. >> Maybe.

[54:00] » No, I'm serious. If we That would be the way to do it. You know, if we

[54:03] » corral them like in just one area. >> Yeah. Have your little electric fence

[54:08] out there >> and um

[54:10] » have to >> and and just put put them out there.

[54:14] [laughter] >> That might be eat this. And if we know

[54:20] anybody that has goats that's willing to, you know, put them on the property,

[54:25] cor make sure that they're coralled in so they don't get

[54:28] » Yeah, >> that's the problem. Keeping wind, they

[54:30] can get out of anything. They're a pain in the ass to keep coralled.

[54:33] » Yeah. I've never I've never worked with >> they jump. We had a horse stall and we

[54:38] had fence all the way up to the top of it with like this much exposed. They got

[54:42] over it. Oh, yeah. >> So, they jumped all the

[54:44] » But it wasn't electric fence, right? No. >> Okay. I'm thinking electric fence.

[54:48] That's what I've seen. >> Electric fence might work. Also, keeping

[54:51] the predators out because Oh, yeah. You got coyotes or something on that side of

[54:55] town also. >> Oh, yeah. Well, there's bears. There's a

[54:59] lot of bears, too. >> Coyotes.

[55:03] » Some people say mountain lions, but I'm not so sure about that. [laughter]

[55:06] » Yeah, I'm not going to get into that. I guess

[55:09] it's controversial. >> Yes, it is.

[55:14] » Yes, it is. >> All right. Should we move on to the

[55:16] other property? >> Do we need to to vote on anything? So, I

[55:19] think what we're saying is we are going to um go ahead with the tarps. Is that

[55:24] it? You know, with the original plan, >> which this spring, you two brave souls,

[55:30] we're going to go out there with the tarps.

[55:32] » Yeah, we had to get permission from I think Kong and all that. So, then we

[55:36] window. So, we're we're good to go for fall.

[55:38] » So, yeah. So, we've got a fall window. So, you guys you guys are going to talk

[55:42] amongst yourselves and decide. Yep. >> Okay. I like to go with you guys and try

[55:47] to help with some >> Oh, that's right. Yeah, because you were

[55:49] in here. Yeah. Yeah. Come along for >> help.

[55:52] » We can run the duct tape. Duct tape. >> Yeah,

[55:55] » I'll go. But I'll I'll go and cut the the tree of heaven.

[55:59] » Pictures. You can take pictures if you want. [laughter]

[56:02] » I'm allergic to poison ivy. Not deathly. Um for some reason I always get a little

[56:06] spot on my forehead no matter what. Um but I call like rubber boots. So, I

[56:12] probably could just suit up and help. >> Okay. Well,

[56:18] » the mayor >> Connor, you're you're going to

[56:21] coordinate us here. >> Yep.

[56:24] Okay. Um, next item is discussion review Martha's report of North Pond.

[56:31] » Again, same thing. Another report from Martha's state visit to North Pond.

[56:38] I'm just laughing about me pulling into a parking space and this dude pulling

[56:43] right in with his big old pickup truck right next to me

[56:47] » and his dog, [laughter]

[56:51] Bill. And he opens the door and Belle through the woods and he's throwing

[56:54] balls and the dog is running. [laughter]

[57:02] There are um spaces out there. Um I think there's like five or six spaces

[57:07] maybe. One is a handicap and um they are marked in the dirt with u some kind of

[57:14] paint which of course is going to wear off but they do have permanent um

[57:19] post with the parking space number on them. So if you go not on a weekend but

[57:28] you know during the week I would guess you you probably have a good chance of

[57:32] getting a parking space. on the day and I had no problem. Okay. There was one

[57:36] other vehicle there and it was gone when I came back.

[57:38] » Good. Good. So, um I didn't really do very much between the guy that was

[57:46] running around in the woods with his crazy dog speech and then um as I got

[57:52] closer to the quote unquote beach area, there were two boats down there. One was

[57:58] leaving just as I kind of arrived, but I was kind of up on a bluff, you know, so

[58:03] I And there was a beach chair down there

[58:06] by the water. Nobody was sitting in it. It had all these empty beer cans around

[58:10] it and then a a party boat kind of parked, you know, anchored uh just

[58:16] offshore there. So, um >> Babs Beach, is that what they call it?

[58:23] » Babs is further down. >> North Pond Beach. They specific area

[58:27] they park is like a known >> It's like the only part you can dock

[58:30] your boat at or something. Right. That's not that

[58:36] pond. >> Yeah, that's something like that.

[58:38] » I don't know what they refer to it either, but right

[58:41] » spot. >> Yeah. No, they call it a certain beach

[58:44] like it was called something before conservation took over, but um I forget

[58:48] the name of it. >> So, what I what I saw was like an old

[58:51] asphalt road. Would you agree, Phil, that there was like an old road?

[58:55] » Yep. >> And and then there were just loads of

[58:58] pig paths all through there. Um, >> yeah, there's problems with I think the

[59:04] neighborhood kid. I think he has autism or something and he goes his quad down

[59:07] that road and he he rides his quad up basically in that road area and tears up

[59:12] a lot of the trail head over there and causes erosion, right?

[59:16] » I know that the town has spoken before and it sounds like they just keep doing

[59:19] it. >> You see the burs like where they Yeah.

[59:23] And it, you know, it looked to me like this this damage had been done over many

[59:28] years, you know, um and the paths down to the pond or the lake um have been

[59:36] eroded. So they're big erosion gullies basically.

[59:40] » And um >> um it it just, you know, when you're in

[59:44] a very damaged environment where you know people have been doing some not so

[59:48] nice things, you just get the creeps. That's how I felt the whole time I was

[59:52] there. very uncomfortable. I didn't see too

[59:55] much trash. I was expecting to see a lot more trash than I actually saw.

[1:00:01] » She's pretty good about going down there and picking up fish. She goes there

[1:00:04] probably once few times a week. >> Yeah, except for the last

[1:00:07] [clears throat] year. >> The beach chair with the empty beer and

[1:00:09] I figured it might be from the party boat that they, you know, just to for

[1:00:13] going back and forth or something and maybe they were going to clean it up. I

[1:00:16] knew I wasn't. I was going to get out of there. But um yeah, so my my impression

[1:00:22] was um the first thing I thought as as a land manager was I would want to have a

[1:00:29] path that people could follow that would give them some beach access.

[1:00:36] Um but that you know and then the other all the other pig paths that were down

[1:00:40] in the gullies that we would have to block them somehow with water bars, with

[1:00:46] logs, with straw waddle, with whatever and try to keep people out of them. Um,

[1:00:54] that would have been my first step uh to provide if you're opening that to the

[1:01:00] public, which we obviously are, >> there's a kiosk that does not explain

[1:01:05] anything about the property. >> And that's not I'm not pointing the

[1:01:08] finger at anybody or blaming anybody or whatever, but just saying that there's

[1:01:13] no information of what this property is and how we're trying to manage it or

[1:01:19] anything. people map that's on the kiosk. What's

[1:01:23] What does that map say? Does that give any information?

[1:01:26] » Not really. >> Showing you just a couple different

[1:01:28] loops of trail, >> but it doesn't it doesn't tell you um

[1:01:35] anything about >> what this property is. This, you know,

[1:01:38] this is um managed by some, you know, whatever. And the conservation

[1:01:43] restriction is held by Massachusetts Fish and Game and per order of

[1:01:47] Massachusetts Fish and Game. this is how we're managing the pro. There's nothing

[1:01:51] that >> there is the one that's called says it's

[1:01:52] a conservation area and then lists any great list of prohibited items and

[1:01:57] activities but right not >> I I guess what

[1:02:01] » so and then the the the rules there's another little sign that that shows the

[1:02:07] rules and again says nothing about dogs. So, of course, people are using this

[1:02:13] like the man I saw that day. >> Um, and you just

[1:02:19] running their dogs through or whatever, you know, they want to do in there. Um,

[1:02:26] so the rules themselves are not adequate.

[1:02:31] I keep saying I want to get over to the Southwick manage wildlife management

[1:02:35] area and just see how they have how Mass Fishing Game has you know worked with

[1:02:41] that or whoever or is it US Fish and Wildlife whoever it is um how they're

[1:02:46] explaining things to the public that would be very helpful to know but you

[1:02:51] know if you're just somebody coming from the public and you don't know oh this

[1:02:56] looks like a place I could go hiking or maybe see the the lake, you know, it's

[1:03:02] there's not enough information there to really tell you how to do it or what's

[1:03:06] going on there. So, that's what I thought when I first saw the property.

[1:03:11] People are just using it however they want to. We are trying to restrict

[1:03:16] access by only having, you know, five parking spaces, however many, and towing

[1:03:22] vehicles away that, you know, that can't fit in five spaces.

[1:03:28] And um but nobody's down there and until unless you had have law a law

[1:03:34] enforcement presence or somebody who's every day monitoring that property and

[1:03:39] calling law enforcement, this is happening. Can you come and help? Um I

[1:03:44] don't know. It just um

[1:03:49] » so in the context of the report that Norm brought us last time and the

[1:03:54] recommendations from the state and whatnot and you know the conservation

[1:03:57] commission had kind of their three-phase plan on what they would like to do with

[1:04:00] the plantings and things and the maps state group came and kind of had

[1:04:06] different opinions. >> Yeah. Does this change our mind on what

[1:04:09] a path forward would be for trying to do something to start

[1:04:15] controlling some of the erosion and getting some of these something going in

[1:04:18] there growing and whatnot. >> It changed my mind when I saw

[1:04:22] » right >> the severe damage. I I thought, you

[1:04:25] know, I like better now what Mass Fish and Wildlife suggested about putting

[1:04:29] debris in the gullies, keeping people out of those gullies so that they could

[1:04:35] start to repair. And they were so deep to me that I couldn't imagine I saw all

[1:04:40] the concerns then about you put LOM in there, let alone you're not I'm not even

[1:04:46] worried about the invasive species seeds that might go in there, but you put you

[1:04:50] have to put a lot of lom in there to get the plant going. and then you know we

[1:04:54] get a really bad storm >> could wash everything down in they would

[1:04:59] need to be monitored on a regular basis who is going to do that.

[1:05:03] » Um we don't have a a work group um of city workers you know paid workers that

[1:05:10] can do that that sort of work. So, that's where my mind went, okay,

[1:05:15] let's just what if we just stabilize those gully areas, but we'll still have

[1:05:20] to provide a way for the public to get down to the pond at some point. Uh maybe

[1:05:26] not where the musk turtles, cuz I think it talked about the musk turtles and

[1:05:30] that some of the natural material that has built up on the shoreline. Um how

[1:05:35] that's a great habitat for the musk turtle. Um, so we wouldn't want to

[1:05:40] direct people to that area, you know, because people will be just trampling

[1:05:45] and jumping in the water and whatever, you know.

[1:05:48] » Um, I didn't see the signs that were down there. Did you see what the signs

[1:05:52] said? The ones that were on that little beach area.

[1:05:55] » I did that. >> Okay. I I didn't want to because of that

[1:05:58] party boat there. Um, I didn't want to go down. I It maybe says no swimming. I

[1:06:03] don't know. Um, >> I think it says clean up after yourself.

[1:06:07] No trace. I've been on it before. Okay. It's nothing

[1:06:10] » okay. >> Too crazy.

[1:06:11] » Yeah. So, um but that that's the first thought that I had was a marked trail.

[1:06:19] Um and where you ask people to stay on on the trail, but have a way for them to

[1:06:25] enjoy the pond, to get down to the pond, cuz that's probably why that they are

[1:06:29] there to be able to at least see it. and maybe a little like a little beach area

[1:06:33] that they could, you know, wait in the water if they wanted to.

[1:06:38] » Um um directing people cuz right now it's

[1:06:43] just there's so many pig paths I was afraid I was going to get lost and with

[1:06:48] this crazy man running around with his dog. [laughter]

[1:06:51] I was thinking the first step that we can we do have control over is updating

[1:06:55] that board with information and maybe changing it up a bit

[1:06:59] » to kind of >> be like, okay, well, should there or

[1:07:03] shouldn't there be a trash can >> because you said it says carry in and

[1:07:08] carry out on them, >> but then there's a trash can there.

[1:07:10] Yeah. >> So, it kind of like contradicts what the

[1:07:13] sign is saying. >> Um, I haven't gone down there, so

[1:07:16] » I worry about the bears, too. You know, having an open trash can. I don't like

[1:07:19] it at at at the Sophanowski community garden either.

[1:07:22] » I mean, they keep that one closed really tight though, which is pretty good cuz

[1:07:27] » could easily get into that if you really wanted to. But it it also encourages

[1:07:31] the, you know, people to drop off. I've seen things dropped off there that don't

[1:07:35] fit in a trash, but they don't want to take it. Yeah, they do that.

[1:07:38] » They could do that. >> And it just encourages that that sort of

[1:07:42] behavior. So we should update the board like come together with a like something

[1:07:47] that's more visible something you know that's something that we can control at

[1:07:52] this point you know >> um laminate it so that and then mark off

[1:07:58] trails so that the trails you do want people to be on and enjoy mark them I

[1:08:04] are there any paint spots that >> we'd have to blaze it you know and you

[1:08:09] know um that there are like um what do You call those kind of erosion fences.

[1:08:14] » Oh, >> you know, of course.

[1:08:16] » Yeah. Snow fences. And sometimes people will go around them. So, I don't want to

[1:08:20] I wouldn't want to see that, but I would want to see a marked path.

[1:08:24] » Yeah. Because on the other side where I can access from um Babs Street or where

[1:08:33] Firefly Farms is, >> go down by the apartments. There's a

[1:08:37] well um well open um trail. Kids use it for bicycling and joggers use it and

[1:08:45] things like that. There is a sign there. I I didn't read it. I should read it

[1:08:49] next time I go down it. But um there it's not marked. There is one marked

[1:08:55] trail I think which has a tree over it. >> Um but um there's several different ways

[1:09:01] that people go. Yeah. you know, they go off of the trail to go this way or to

[1:09:06] down to the beach quicker. >> And then when you go up this way, that's

[1:09:09] why I mentioned there's like the burn area

[1:09:12] » and that it was full of ticks, you know, but I don't think it was meant for

[1:09:16] anybody to be up there. It's meant for management, I guess. Um I think that's

[1:09:21] what Dennis mentioned the last time. >> Did you prescribe burns on that property

[1:09:25] up on that top at that top area? So [clears throat] when I looked at it, it

[1:09:29] had really well clear open paths, but the markings weren't really clear.

[1:09:35] » So that maybe make one color and say, "Okay, this trail leads here."

[1:09:40] » Kind of like what all the state parks do.

[1:09:42] » And then say, "Welcome here. Enjoy it." You know, these are the,

[1:09:46] » you know, that way they don't go off here, go off there to do anything. I

[1:09:51] don't know. That's just a suggestion. But

[1:09:53] » Mhm. Yeah, I think um >> I'm not great at creating things, but I

[1:09:58] could certainly help, you know, create some wordage or something to put up

[1:10:03] there where it's more clear. I like the map.

[1:10:06] » Um and maybe we could update the sign that's there.

[1:10:10] » You know, whether we take the trash out or leave it there, is it working? Who's

[1:10:13] emptying the trash? You know, >> somebody from the town.

[1:10:17] » Probably the same folks that do Senowski's trash can.

[1:10:21] » Okay. Okay. >> Yeah, I think the baby does it.

[1:10:25] » Yeah. So, well, that's my thoughts, I guess.

[1:10:29] » Mhm. >> But that's the start.

[1:10:31] » So, so you you've seen the property the from the parking lot area

[1:10:36] » on the other side going in from the other side. And I don't even think

[1:10:39] that's it's marked with a sign. So, >> you can from your side you can walk all

[1:10:44] the way over to North Pond Conservation Area.

[1:10:49] » Yep. I believe that's part of it though, like that whole conservation area.

[1:10:54] That's part of it because there is a town sign. It says it's conservation.

[1:10:57] » Okay. >> But, you know, it cuts off right at the

[1:11:00] apartments. >> Mhm.

[1:11:02] » So, it ends there. It's It's pretty >> The trails have markers already. They

[1:11:06] have the trails have little tin markers and have different colors.

[1:11:10] » I did not see any of that when I was there. Did you see any tin markers with

[1:11:15] colors? >> I didn't. Maybe maybe they came down and

[1:11:19] they never put them up. >> Maybe. Yeah, somebody may have pulled

[1:11:23] them off. That that can always be a problem.

[1:11:26] » Um but I did not see anything like that. And and that's why I was, you know,

[1:11:33] trying to memorize. There were so many pig paths. I'm thinking I want to know

[1:11:39] how to get back if I have to get back quick with this crazy man [laughter] or

[1:11:43] his dog. Um, and I was looking for blazes or, you know, any way to

[1:11:49] identify. And all I could identify was the the asphalt, the old asphalt road,

[1:11:55] you could tell, you know, where that was. And so when I took a a little path

[1:12:00] off to kind of see a little more, I made sure [laughter]

[1:12:04] it um it's a maze in there. It really is a maze. Um so that may be one thing to

[1:12:12] do is to have um an organized well-blazed

[1:12:21] uh well-maintained path with a spur that does come down to the pond.

[1:12:27] » It would be good if it was a loop >> because the goal is not to keep people

[1:12:31] from it but to let them enjoy it but right

[1:12:34] » help the everything else grow around. And if we

[1:12:39] fill in the gullies with debris, um, there were a lot of big trees on the

[1:12:45] ground. Did you notice that there were there was a lot of dead wood and stone?

[1:12:49] » That would be good to >> Yeah, we we'd need equipment to help us

[1:12:53] move that. I mean, it's it's heavy, but we could get equipment.

[1:12:56] » You can get equipment in there because the road, you know, that old road.

[1:13:00] » So, I think we could do that. Um, and just try the best we can. know the

[1:13:06] public's still going to go where they want to go, [laughter] but if we make it

[1:13:09] uncomfortable for them, they might just cut another path around the gully. I

[1:13:13] don't know what's going to happen, [clears throat] but

[1:13:15] » yeah. >> Um

[1:13:18] I think [snorts] many people will obey and will stay on a trail if you explain

[1:13:24] it to them and and have a trail that's well marked.

[1:13:27] » Yeah. The people that's been using it since before they took it over, they're

[1:13:32] still using it. like they, you know, like it was open properties,

[1:13:37] » but you know, people have that been there for years still.

[1:13:41] » So, this North Pond Community Group or whatever, what do they do?

[1:13:47] » North Pond Community >> Facebook.

[1:13:50] » There's Is it a Facebook? I don't have Facebook.

[1:13:53] Uh, Kangaman. >> Kangaman Neighbors.

[1:13:56] » No, Kangaman. Oh, something. Chris Pratt's wife runs it.

[1:14:02] » Oh, >> what the hell is it called?

[1:14:03] » I'm not on that. >> That's not specific to the North Pond,

[1:14:06] right? >> Oh, it isn't.

[1:14:07] » It's just that Kaman like the Hol general.

[1:14:10] » Okay, interesting. [clears throat] >> I thought there was like a neighborhood

[1:14:13] group. >> I think there I think it's actually like

[1:14:15] a board, too. I think it's it's Conan. I can't remember the name, but yeah,

[1:14:20] they deal with just Conan stuff. Okay. >> Yeah. Um, I know lake management has a

[1:14:26] lot to do with the lake part of it, but they don't have

[1:14:40] backing. [clears throat]

[1:14:51] I'm

[1:15:02] in Hebrews.

[1:16:31] They do. Okay.

[1:16:42] [clears throat]

[1:16:46] » Of course. So there's there 20

[1:17:12] and that's why I'm thinking why is it constitute property

[1:17:17] That's a part if you will for at least 20 years.

[1:17:22] » Yeah. But the sign on the bottom I don't think it says that

[1:17:26] » by the beach right it doesn't even say what the top sign

[1:17:33] there is and one of them

[1:17:38] » that's from the state isn't it? >> Uh this is from the south.

[1:17:52] from down there, >> right? Asations.

[1:17:55] » Yeah. [clears throat]

[1:17:57] » And like I said, you know, people been doing it for

[1:17:59] » right >> years.

[1:18:02] » Not to that though, like couple years.

[1:18:06] » Does it? >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, but

[1:18:11] So there is a little area that get to a

[1:18:16] swimming area. So I'm thinking there is a little section

[1:18:19] » maybe. Yeah.

[1:18:24] They just [clears throat]

[1:18:28] » so out of all this we do >> something to Phil that we missed. The

[1:18:38] very last sentence says that we were some more information

[1:18:45] there. Let me see if I can find it. That last page

[1:18:56] completion. [clears throat] This

[1:19:35] conservation and give them our feedback

[1:19:42] letter that this report it says in port

[1:19:49] they describe Elizabeth and Jen they went with Elizabeth and Jen they gave

[1:19:53] these different from mass fish and wlet they gave these different um

[1:19:57] [clears throat] idea and suggestions. And then at the conclusion of the visit,

[1:20:02] Elizabeth and Jen, they would review uh discuss

[1:20:09] management at fisheries and life and then additional feedback are expected

[1:20:15] within the next weeks. So when I read that it sounded like

[1:20:21] mass fish and wildlife should have gotten to the conservation commission

[1:20:25] had more guidance other than just what we're reading here

[1:20:30] » and so far we haven't seen that. So I was just curious about that. I was

[1:20:36] reading the first two pages and then I I looked at last paragraph and wondered

[1:20:44] where is feedback and guidance me when they talked with upper management there

[1:20:50] were some more better ideas >> right

[1:20:53] » or something

[1:20:56] I don't know it's just kind of kind of scary that there's a conservation

[1:21:00] restriction of property that basically you need law enforce out there and say

[1:21:06] don't to prevent people illegal or illegitimate things according

[1:21:11] to the conservation restriction. >> Right.

[1:21:14] » So they have differentation

[1:21:24] and us

[1:21:28] » I would like to know they if they had any further funds

[1:21:33] did what we're thinking of our thoughts are

[1:21:40] doing [clears throat] updating or you know even you know we're doing

[1:21:45] the past if we can >> we definitely need a lot more

[1:21:50] » well they want just a whole

[1:21:56] » so we are dealing with conservation is just erosion because [clears throat]

[1:22:00] like a stone thing with plantings like that and that's what kind of charactes

[1:22:10] that was [clears throat] concept involves establishment of a

[1:22:14] fortified trail consisting of native plantings paired with a keystone pathway

[1:22:20] talking [clears throat] about trails in this you know phase three any to me I

[1:22:25] thought it was backwards if you you know want to correct erosion you need to

[1:22:32] provide a pathway for people to stay on. [laughter]

[1:22:36] You want to have any hope of filling in those gullies where people are accessing

[1:22:41] the the pond. But anyway, they talk a little bit about the trail stuff there.

[1:22:47] Well, most of your right was about the ocean and how to address the erosion,

[1:22:53] but people are making the erosion. You know, it's like it's not a nasty event.

[1:22:59] mother nature. It's people that are causing this, you know.

[1:23:03] » Um,

[1:23:07] » so it sounds like we should be coordinating with them or just giving

[1:23:12] them artist or and then if they're waiting for us,

[1:23:17] they're going to just they're going to start this plan if they think for us

[1:23:23] something to them. Yeah, I think they got back to the state with something

[1:23:26] different and then one of [snorts] them.

[1:23:34] » So our job then is to get back to the conservation and tell them

[1:23:39] after [snorts] after our site visit what we would recommend and then consition

[1:23:44] commission will get back to mass fish and wildlife.

[1:23:48] But do they have to be through us to do it? It's a little I know we had to

[1:23:53] » I don't know. I don't know. >> Okay.

[1:23:56] » I think we I mean the we're the um

[1:24:01] DRDA holder so involved to some extent. Mhm.

[1:24:07] Um, so district agree with and I were talking about, you

[1:24:13] know, uh, somehow establishing a trail by bling,

[1:24:18] you know, making a path.

[1:24:46] Did the two of you like that idea or or did you would you suggest

[1:24:51] » I haven't like I said I haven't been out this to the specific erosion spot. I

[1:24:55] don't I don't know where it is relative to this so I can't speak on that. Mhm.

[1:24:59] » I think the issue isn't >> signage and knowing where to go. It's

[1:25:05] how to fix the erosion problem and keep it from happening is is what Yeah.

[1:25:09] » my understanding was. And they want they want a fix from us. It's going to

[1:25:13] happen. >> The signage the reason the signage and

[1:25:15] the trail marking is important is because to fix the erosion, you've got

[1:25:19] to fix the people to some degree. Um is I think what our point is

[1:25:24] » like educating Yeah. Yes, educating people in soft ways without having a

[1:25:30] police officer out there every day. But for those that

[1:25:33] » would follow legitimate, >> keeping them away from the eroded areas,

[1:25:38] letting them know on that kiosk, you know, how we are trying to address the

[1:25:44] erosion. >> Even if they fix the path first, then we

[1:25:47] update the board.

[1:26:02] Let's

[1:26:09] get this out of here. [laughter] I mean people use the area as a potty place as

[1:26:14] a you know so um getting some cooperation that way is is just one one

[1:26:23] way of dealing or one part of a plan that really wasn't addressed by what

[1:26:29] conservation commission was doing other than at in phase three.

[1:26:35] Um but we can think about it another month

[1:26:39] and >> yeah

[1:26:42] I think we got to revisit this for sure. >> Okay. So I'll just say in the notes no

[1:26:48] conclusion or >> we just these are the couple of things

[1:26:51] that we discussed and no conclusion was or no consensus no conclusion about

[1:27:00] how to deal with that further and if you could

[1:27:04] find out you know what conservation commission does need do they want like a

[1:27:08] letter from us or >> yeah find out exactly where it is too we

[1:27:11] could be thought about something really different.

[1:27:13] » Yeah. Yeah. And um >> I'll get some text.

[1:27:16] » We could be. But at least you and I went and explored the site so we know a

[1:27:21] little bit more about it. >> Um I like I said, I don't want to go in

[1:27:25] there alone, but I would be very happy to go in with others and um um would

[1:27:32] would really enjoy that and and >> yeah, I mentioned I anytime if you want

[1:27:38] to go back, I can go with it. >> Yeah. Okay. So maybe the two of us can

[1:27:42] » email back and forth and >> figure out a time that we could go and

[1:27:47] um that way I could take more detailed pictures or something. But

[1:27:51] » sure >> um I was quite appalled by what I saw.

[1:27:58] [laughter] Needless to say.

[1:28:01] » Okay, moving on to old business. Sonowski property updates. Anyates on

[1:28:06] Sonowski? No, I I spent all my site visit time and all of that on the other

[1:28:13] two properties. I haven't been back to Sopenowski since the last report.

[1:28:18] » I'm assuming it's probably the same. Do you know

[1:28:20] » I do have an update regarding the um um what do you compost pile?

[1:28:27] » Okay. >> So, there's

[1:28:29] issues with invasive species around it. So, there are people um that um signed

[1:28:36] up for a a section of garden where they did say that they would be happy to

[1:28:42] help. >> Oh,

[1:28:43] » so we can reach out to those people that signed up for the garden and maybe do a

[1:28:48] cleanup afterwards, you know, when we when we take everything down,

[1:28:52] » maybe we can get that part. >> Yeah. Something like that. So, I will

[1:28:56] bring that up to Bert because Bert is the one that um manages

[1:29:01] » and you'll let us know so that those of us that want to help if we can on that

[1:29:05] day >> absolutely have like a

[1:29:07] » have the fall clean up. >> Yeah. So, um

[1:29:10] » that would be good put our heads together then

[1:29:13] » somehow do that because if there's poison ivy in there Yeah. Yeah.

[1:29:16] » probably wouldn't be good for people to touch that. So,

[1:29:18] » yeah. >> But yeah, so thank you for bringing that

[1:29:21] up. But I saw that we do have volunteers that signed up for cleaning the the area

[1:29:26] and compost as part of that area. >> Okay. Mhm.

[1:29:32] » Okay. Anything else? Any other matters? >> I think that's all.

[1:29:38] » Okay. I'm going to close this meeting off.

[1:29:41] » Make a motion to journ the meeting. >> 8:32. I second a motion to close the

[1:29:46] meeting. Conor Flurry. I >> Bill Price. I

[1:29:48] » J P. Martha Kane. I >> take this without the meeting.

Open Space Land Management Committee Meeting September 8, 2026

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