[0:05] [laughter]

[0:09] So that's how long

[0:23] the music stops.

[0:38] You have to go to

[0:45] 1985.

[0:58] I like your drink.

[1:03] » That's pretty good stuff. Where'd you get that?

[1:06] » Oh, hometown.

[1:10] » He made it after he emptied out the contents.

[1:13] » You see though, side is real. The real thing, what it is on the can. The other

[1:21] side is spray hair glue. Heavy duty. Uh, this will hold your hat

[1:28] on. It'll hold your wig on. All of this

[1:37] » hold my three. >> It stays cold, too.

[1:45] » Yes. Uh, G.

[1:49] I call this meeting of the Springtown CPAC

[1:55] to order at 6:30 p.m. Notice has been posted in accordance with Texas

[1:59] government code. We do have quorum present. We need a roll call. Are we

[2:04] recording this? >> Uh we're streaming

[2:06] » streaming. We need a roll call. >> No.

[2:09] » Okay. This isn't officially meeting by the way.

[2:11] » Yeah. No, we're not subject to here. So, >> okay.

[2:18] All right. We have an invitation pledge, sir.

[2:23] » Okay.

[2:29] » Heavenly Father, we thank you for today. We thank you for the people that are

[2:32] here today. And God, we pray that you be with us in this meeting. I pray that you

[2:37] guide us, lead us, and help us to honor and glorify your name in Jesus name.

[2:42] Amen. >> Amen.

[2:44] » Join me. The pledge. I pledge algiance to the flag. of the United States of

[2:49] America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God,

[2:55] indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[2:59] » Thank you, sir. >> Thank you.

[3:02] » All right. At this time, Mr. Mayor, we're going to

[3:06] turn it over to Dalton and take it from there.

[3:08] » All right. Well, we appreciate you all coming out. Um, in front of you, we have

[3:12] a draft future land use. Um, I think everybody should have one of these

[3:15] handouts. Um, I just wanted to kind of do a brief rundown. So, really when

[3:19] you're thinking about a land use map, um, this is a a map that's kind of like

[3:24] a vision. Um, this is not dictating zoning. This is just in ideal

[3:29] circumstances. This is how we would like to see the city grow. So, typically, you

[3:33] know, you have commercial along your thorough affairs. Um, some of these maps

[3:38] have the flood plane on there to take into consideration as well. Um, the

[3:41] light yellow is low density residential. That's primarily what's out in your ETJ

[3:46] and you know in a lot of the neighborhoods. Um also for reference um

[3:51] you know obviously uh some of these maps have the ETJ on them. The city does have

[3:55] the authority to plan out into the ETJ but you can't zone in the ETJ. And so

[4:00] this is again strictly going back to just a vision a planning document um

[4:05] that then informs your zoning map. Um when you're making zoning changes, we

[4:10] like to keep land use maps much more broad. That way you have less um changes

[4:15] down the road. So like you know we have commercial districts on here but your

[4:19] zoning may be you know C1 C2 and have different uses setbacks things like

[4:24] that. Um same thing with residential and some of these other areas. And so that's

[4:30] kind of a brief rundown. Um, I think what we want to do is just have you all

[4:35] kind of review those for about what, 10 to 15 minutes. Um, feel free to mark up

[4:39] those maps as much as you want. Um, really this is just kind of the first

[4:43] stab after meeting with staff of, you know, kind of evaluating current land

[4:47] use and what we think it might be down the road. Um, and after that 10 or 15

[4:52] minutes, we'll have a conversation and kind of look through comments and and go

[4:55] from there. So, and I'll just kind of walk around and y'all can feel free to

[4:58] ask me questions or um if you want to discuss anything good for that as well.

[5:10] » Same. Can you guys see it upside down? >> You're on the north end. We're on the

[5:16] south end. >> So, this map

[5:25] is the population 5000 because

[5:33] » we

[5:38] » this is just us hypothetically

[5:46] » local government outjs

[5:51] you could annex more easily now it's voluntary only But if you know for

[5:56] instance one day you were to annex this ideally you see this being residential.

[6:01] It just helps that you're planning infrastructure

[6:05] » but obviousity

[6:17] resour

[6:23] think potentially want to do a commercial

[6:27] development. And then this was just a location that

[6:31] kind of made sense for so

[6:36] close to school.

[6:42] But really >> this is medium density. This is medium

[6:47] density. This is suggested >> monuments.

[6:53] So this is suggest

[7:03] » I would hope that this is not >> black is our current city

[7:07] » but we don't have any we have no influence

[7:10] here which is existing. >> Yeah those are already existing

[7:16] right next to

[7:21] » this and the fact How many people >> eventually hopefully the county were you

[7:25] going to talk about the county's plan tonight?

[7:30] Well, as much as you count as much information,00

[7:38] » school district they've been annexed

[7:42] » industrial this is still these are both

[7:48] » the hope here >> well I think property owners they're

[7:53] here both >> hopeful there are some advantages to

[7:55] having something

[7:59] resial somebody by

[8:04] resil.

[8:21] come in here, hey?

[8:31] » Well, that is I think that is not a certainty, but it is a lean

[8:36] » this part

[8:40] would make this very valable

[8:44] being

[8:49] here. Both of them are in that same. >> Yes.

[9:00] » So this is based off of >> the county.

[9:06] Yes. So this is the current

[9:15] » development comes around

[9:20] that becomes valuable commercially

[9:36] Yeah, we can change >> like this one for anything. I mean, it

[9:39] can be commercial as well. I think the idea was just transition zone from

[9:44] single family neighborhoods to not heavy commercial, but

[9:48] » we're skipping ahead here on thoroughare, but you're going to have a

[9:53] lot of objection to this being. This is a neighbor

[9:59] right here. >> You got about 40 houses with driveways

[10:03] here. That's notense. That's a local

[10:14] » kind of pardon the phrase screw the by putting that subdivision without reverse

[10:20] frontages. You got driveways right. So you'll get some push back on that.

[10:34] And that thoroughare that is existing was before that subdivision.

[10:43] » Yeah. So some of this is like proposed. So this would be taking

[10:48] » I believe that was the county's idea is to potentially bring that next.

[10:55] » Yeah. There's several segments on there that are not

[10:59] right. Keep in mind this is this is a future

[11:03] thoroughare. question is how are the streets been way out? So those ones that

[11:06] you see connected up here in this area were added to

[11:13] to help take relief off as the schools grow right and so that this this portion

[11:21] here doesn't even exist right now.

[11:25] I think we probably need to go back to the land use conversation because we got

[11:29] to get through the land use before we can really explore the thoroughare.

[11:33] » I agree. >> Okay. The thoroughare a little bit

[11:38] dictates though what we want to see

[11:42] what what the what the county is going to support terms of thoroughare is going

[11:46] to impact what we do with our land use or are we hopeful that our land use

[11:51] tells the county >> here.

[11:54] I think it's more possible that our land use is going to tell the county what

[11:57] future streets we may need. >> Yeah. And the land use map and the

[12:01] thoroughare map that we have. Yes. They have a relationship to one another and

[12:05] they certainly impact each other, >> but our thoroughare plan is our federal

[12:10] plan. We do want it to align with the county's thoroughare plan certainly does

[12:15] not conflict with the county's federal plan.

[12:21] and all the med wrong, but it's more that your land use is going to drive

[12:26] your thorough affairs and then your thorough drive.

[12:30] » Yeah. So, whatever thorough affairs you all have as the counties, if they from

[12:34] my understanding, county doesn't have a lot of funding lined up for some of

[12:36] these either. And so, really, it's just planning like I was talking about right

[12:41] away. And if you anticipate or you want commercial in certain areas down the

[12:46] road or neighborhoods like we're talking about designating enough rightway so you

[12:51] have proper that's really

[12:56] what you're thinking about in terms of land use

[13:00] the the county is probably more likely to be partners with us on the perimeter

[13:04] of thorough affairs rather than internal to the city

[13:07] » yeah they pretty much said whatever is in the city is up to the city they want

[13:12] to reflect those accurately on their map but he up to the The county has been

[13:18] working on a grid outside of >> the whole purpose of us meeting with the

[13:23] county was to make sure that whatever we do in our thoroughare plan doesn't

[13:27] conflict as Christine mentioned a minute ago doesn't conflict with where they may

[13:30] be wanting to put some streets through and how all that complent one another

[13:36] right the best prime example I can give you right now well I'll talk about when

[13:40] we get to plan let's go back to the land use right

[13:43] » so I think what you guys are seeing and correct

[13:50] most of everything along our major highway corridors will be zone

[13:54] commercial right that has been the intent for many years right and you

[14:01] still have residential division 51 speckled in here right

[14:06] just because they haven't moved or whatever right so so take a take a look

[14:12] at the map tell us if there's any areas I think mentioned this area right here

[14:17] already. Uh, is there any areas that offer you guys any concern as far as how

[14:22] the zoning looks on this map?

[14:29] » So, can we talk about the the schools here?

[14:35] » So, we almost uh converted the whole 50 acres here to

[14:39] commercial. Is that what this shows here or is that partially is that what this?

[14:44] Yeah, that's existing school. This is Bel Travel Center.

[14:50] » Okay. So, this is this this is currently partially what is it?

[14:54] » This is >> No, this is that

[14:58] » gas station. >> Gas station and the attached existing 13

[15:02] acres to that. >> Okay. This is

[15:05] » elementary. >> Yes.

[15:08] So here

[15:12] this is the intermediate middle school. >> Uh that's the state that's the middle

[15:17] school. >> Okay.

[15:20] » So this is the area where it was potentially going to go commercial.

[15:24] » Oh this is this is >> so this section though is

[15:30] » I think you're talking about this section right here.

[15:33] » Okay. >> And what about this section here?

[15:37] That'sriv.

[15:41] » So, this could potentially be commercial.

[15:47] » There's a there's a home there and the city the school district owns that

[15:52] little home there. This is where it used to be common grow. There's a sign up

[15:55] now. There's a food truck

[15:58] » food truck there. >> And keep in mind this is not in our

[16:02] city.

[16:07] Both of those are not this is not

[16:12] » this one. So we do have some commercial entities

[16:16] right here.

[16:24] » Yeah. And keep in mind too, you are going to have throughout here, there

[16:27] will be instance where you have maybe specifically churches a lot of times are

[16:31] in uh like these low density residential areas or you'll have commercial

[16:36] sprinkled in but future land use is trying to capture the primary use of

[16:40] that area. And so you can have instances here and there have other uses.

[16:47] But if you get super detailed like that, then you're getting into

[16:56] I know another parcel the city wanted opinions on also is this one.

[17:01] » So I believe it's currently zoned light industrial.

[17:04] » Yeah. So it currently has a light industrial PD on it. It's about 10 years

[17:08] old negotiated with property owners are

[17:12] still the property owners consultant no longer employed by the

[17:17] city. The question becomes you've got

[17:23] all the way up to 9 street. Do you immediately want to go across the street

[17:30] or do you want a buffer before you begin?

[17:38] » So have that 380. We already have that instance

[17:45] here.

[18:02] » So that doesn't have an expiration date. >> No runs with the land. Well, sometimes

[18:08] there's a a writer requirement that it has to be built out of

[18:15] » it doesn't. >> Okay.

[18:19] » The other concern too having that is going to mean some level of truck

[18:24] traffic.

[18:39] the industrial route or even commercial

[18:47] when we get to the subdivision ordinance we do need to have limits on the number

[18:51] of access points

[19:01] and you're right outside the red track there trying to get in or out of

[19:08] So, >> so keeping in mind what you're looking

[19:10] at is [clears throat] if you don't desire make this something industrial,

[19:15] all you're doing is doing a future land use plan. You're not reszoning anything,

[19:21] right? That would have to be done by it.

[19:26] If we're dealing with a developer who wants to come in and do something, if he

[19:31] sees that we're looking at this to be resial, we're looking to be commercial,

[19:36] whatever it might be, right? Then he'll see that on our future land use, which

[19:41] is basically you're telling the developer, you're open to that concept,

[19:44] right? The actual reasoning of it would have to be done by the property

[19:49] better for medium density over there.

[19:55] » So yeah, so define your definition of medium density.

[20:02] » Okay. So yeah, so

[20:06] » light vehicle traffic. >> Yeah. You want the David Miller opinion?

[20:09] » Sure. >> The David Miller opinion is that this

[20:11] would be a good area for some type of medium density property, right? Because

[20:18] when you get into single family homes, if you're going to push all the way up

[20:21] into this area, you're backing right up to the gas, right?

[20:26] » Yeah. And that's the difficulty of trying to to tell it as an S1, SF1, S2

[20:32] because of it, the gas station. Medium density, at least in my opinion, makes

[20:37] sense. >> Well, the downside of it is you've got

[20:40] all the people here coming down these streets to get to the grocery store.

[20:44] » I think they turn right. >> Well, they might or a lot of cars go

[20:49] zigzag through here. So

[20:54] » generally most >> more high density developments closer to

[20:59] the city center. >> It depends on the city.

[21:02] » Yeah. >> I've seen it both ways. It just kind of

[21:04] depends on how it grows. >> I'd rather see some if there's

[21:07] apartments going in sometime or town homes somewhere

[21:11] because it gets us away gets away from

[21:17] » If you talk about apartments, I would consider those high density which we

[21:20] don't have any currently. You can change that if you want.

[21:24] But through the survey and kind of conversations, it sounds like it's

[21:27] mostly going to be lowensity res

[21:43] think. This would be public. This is the

[21:48] school. There's 17 acres here. They're not

[21:54] or six acres. I think it's here.

[21:59] » Oh, you're talking about along the front.

[22:02] » Okay. >> So, this is I think there's a home on

[22:04] the corner. Maybe there's a couple homes here and here already exist.

[22:12] » Yeah. So, no, he's right. This here in conversations that we've had with the

[22:18] school district Correct me if I'm wrong, but this

[22:23] originally cut out to do something with hindsightes with

[22:26] » the owner did not want to sell. >> Okay. So, they still own

[22:31] » Okay. 24 acres here.

[22:37] » Did you did annex this? I don't know.

[22:43] » We only annex. >> Okay. I'll adjust that.

[22:47] » So, this I was thinking this was a half and

[22:51] that's really it's on the other side of the road. If that were to be medium

[22:55] density my only worry is that bridge get transportation we'll stop

[23:03] you mentioned the apartments on this area my thought is that commercially

[23:10] this is very >> valable because I don't know that a guy

[23:14] somebody building an apartment complex is going to want to out somebody that's

[23:21] comping

[23:30] commercially, they'll be happy to look. If we give a prime acreage for multif

[23:35] family, commercial is not going to just then go look somewhere else in the city.

[23:39] A lot of the commercial developers we talked to, if they can't get on 199,

[23:43] they're not even really interested in 51. And so I think that's

[23:48] prime acorage to to give up to consider res. I agree which is why I think this I

[23:54] would not try to move to medium density. >> So I I I would not recommend any type of

[24:02] meeting because that is the city's most primal

[24:07] spot for commercial development, right? And so if you want to pepper it further

[24:12] back, David, I understand what you're saying, but the best

[24:17] If you look at Weatherford's multif family developments, they're all on the

[24:20] peripherals, right? And so, of course, Weatherford is much more developed in

[24:24] the center than we are, which is probably why. But the reality of it is,

[24:28] uh, I wouldn't give up any valuable commercial property along the side,

[24:31] especially at the rate that commercial development is going right now. Uh, we

[24:37] met with different developers today. you have another meeting because I'm out the

[24:42] rest of the week because my deal you got a meeting tomorrow Thursday.

[24:47] So it's u there's too much interest in commercial

[24:51] development along this

[24:57] and tax wise for the same acorage would the city be getting more property taxes

[25:05] or >> depends on builds rights if you you

[25:10] three hair salons. Then the answer to that

[25:13] three hair salons uh and compared to apartment complex. No, you're going to

[25:18] get more tax off the apartment complex. You build big box and you're going to

[25:24] get more tax and sales tax off that big box apartment complex.

[25:31] » You also have to look at the cost to serve complex

[25:38] cost more. Also, depending on what fire apparat

[25:43] on height. >> There's only one quint.

[25:52] » So we're limited to what? Two stories. >> Three.

[25:56] » That's max right now. >> Will our current ordinances even

[26:03] » max.

[26:09] So these are the buckets for land use. >> So we're no longer just commercial res.

[26:20] » So what what do you mean by semi semi? I thought that was kind of outdated term.

[26:25] So I mean most people put cemeteries

[26:30] like county

[26:36] has been known by the public access

[26:44] that's currently part of certain subdivisions is that considered public

[26:51] » yeah we can carve that out but typically those are going to be smaller So,

[26:56] you wouldn't show that, but we can certainly pull those parts in

[27:02] » right now.

[27:06] And there's 51.

[27:11] » Okay. >> I think that would be

[27:21] small amount.

[27:33] So one other thing's statute now that requires you to have

[27:38] some instance of manufactured housing manufactured housing. So essentially we

[27:43] designated an area that already has manufactured housing for that relatively

[27:48] small area keeps us out of being out of comp doesn't encourage

[27:54] substantial manufactured housing development to

[27:58] necessarily go right in the middle of something that we're envisioning for

[28:02] something else.

[28:07] » That's a new manufacturer.

[28:13] » I want to see that. >> Well, actually South Lake has unless

[28:17] they've changed it. You know where Pearson Road is in South Lake and if you

[28:20] go south on Pearson, it makes a

[28:28] partisan.

[28:42] We already have an area off of Ash Street that has that. So that's what we

[28:47] dictated on the map.

[29:03] buy it out one day. Wink wink and do something different. We're open to that,

[29:07] too. But we have to have >> Yeah.

[29:12] » So, here's one, too. You have to have zoning in your city. You have to

[29:17] designate us that will actually allow sexually aren't business,

[29:23] » right? >> We've got about 30 pages worth of

[29:26] regulation on that. >> We do, but you have to allow it. You

[29:29] have to have a zoner that allows it. So, technically,

[29:33] » which one is that? >> That is not [laughter]

[29:39] the way we handle that very

[29:49] apply.

[29:54] discretionary as far as

[29:59] they're not guaranteed to be able to do it, but we have to provide any

[30:05] process by all

[30:10] they at least have opportunity or a chance to say no.

[30:14] » Yeah. the idea that you can just zone out by just not listing it in your table

[30:19] that that's not entirely accurate. You have to you can make the process pretty

[30:24] incessor.

[30:31] Do we allow data in the city? We don't have a use for it right now.

[30:36] » Well, so so truth is you have to consider they have the right to to

[30:42] apply. They had the right. The greater truth is

[30:47] we don't have enough space in the city to put them, right? And currently we

[30:51] would not be without impacting our citizens, we would not be able to get

[30:55] the water. So I'm

[30:58] » unless they >> they're looking

[31:02] they offered a friend of mine right out of right off their 920

[31:06] » right there. 400 acres and then they got to looking and they couldn't put it

[31:10] there. >> Yeah.

[31:10] » But they offered him money for his property. They're looking everywhere.

[31:14] You know, we've been approached by a couple in the past.

[31:20] » So, what's the demarcation between low density resity?

[31:25] » Low density is just standard single family neighborhoods. I mean you can go

[31:28] into if you want to you could have low density rural residential because that's

[31:34] in your rural res medium density as far as I'm defining it

[31:42] for y town maybe but I would say if you start

[31:48] getting larger complex it's going to be high

[31:54] multip So even like

[32:04] » Yeah.

[32:11] » And even then too you can depending on what you want in a zoning or you can be

[32:15] very detailed >> gentle density you can allow certain

[32:19] circumstances are things like

[32:23] » I think I think important point because something that you guys will be

[32:26] considering in coming months is a new map. This is a building block. We're

[32:31] certainly not going to propose a zoning map that conflicts with the land use.

[32:37] So as mentioned earlier,

[32:42] so you may have a commercial area that's all commercial

[32:46] when we adopt a new zoning zoning. You may have two or three commercial

[32:51] districts from which to choose all of own table which is different all their

[32:57] different development standards from setbacks to parking requirements to

[33:02] maximum area coverage. Um, so that's something to be thinking about as you're

[33:09] making decisions and recommendations based on the land use map is that if you

[33:14] assign an area commercial when we go to start working on the zoning map, however

[33:20] many commercial zoning districts you have to choose from, that's going to be

[33:24] your options to assign to that area. Um you can there's two options when we get

[33:32] to the zoning map stage. One would be parcel based where each parcel has a

[33:37] zoning designation specific to the parcel which is what we've operated on

[33:41] in the past and there's some pros and cons to that and another is more of a

[33:45] neighborhood or street level zoning where you don't have opportunities for

[33:51] speckled in parcels of different uses. We can debate the pros and cons of each

[33:57] of those get to that stage. Keep in mind as you're looking at this

[34:03] is that this is the building block for the zoning maps.

[34:08] » So so when we get to that stage, will there be there should be no conflicts

[34:13] between something that is the use is residential but the zoning set is

[34:17] commercial or we still have some outliers?

[34:21] » Uh it just depends. I mean you could have

[34:23] There may be potential areas now that are zoned residential that collectively

[34:27] everyone says this makes more sense for commercial. Then if we decide to update

[34:34] that the zoning ordinance, it doesn't change anything. That use is going to be

[34:37] a legal non-conforming use until something changes.

[34:44] And something else to keep in mind too is this future language plan. We're

[34:47] going to go through we're going to adopt this and develop it. But this is still a

[34:50] living document just like the rest of the plan. So if someone came into

[34:53] downtown said hey we really want to do a really cool mixed use and then we have

[34:56] this commercial and that involves you know commercial and residential doesn't

[35:01] mean you have to say oh no this is only commercial you can amend a land use plan

[35:07] very documents in the plan that explain how

[35:10] to do that most changes kind

[35:18] » that's a good point this entire document is a fluid document

[35:22] doesn't it doesn't nail once it's all passed. It doesn't nail the city council

[35:26] down to one specific thing. It can all be changed because you may have you may

[35:33] have a zer

[35:40] wants to come in thousands of dollars. You can always

[35:44] change that. It's a very fluid document. This is just building stone foundation

[35:49] to build that off.

[35:57] At the end of the day too, it helps and council because when they're evaluating

[36:02] zoning or land use or anything like that, they say, "Okay, is this align

[36:06] with what we all talked about talked about citizens agree with this and then

[36:12] if it's substantially different

[36:20] that when we do this and especially as we begin to work on the zoning

[36:23] components of it that this group here will not be able to make everybody

[36:29] happy, >> right? You just won't be able. But

[36:32] that's why it's important to explain to them that this is just this is just a

[36:35] road mapap foundation to get us for to help us guide our future growth that

[36:41] it's not set in stone because you have somebody come in because happens to me

[36:45] every time I change somebody comes to me says hey you got commercial zoning

[36:49] that's my house and you have this bill that doesn't mean you're going to lose

[36:53] your house right so you're not going to be able to make everybody happy main

[36:57] thing is you're looking to establish a direction for the city to be moving in

[37:01] to grow that's still coming into the city.

[37:08] So there's a lot a lot going on out here. You got a lot of different

[37:13] different uses in a small amount of space there. Uh so for schools is it

[37:21] generally preferable to have residential next to schools? In this case, we would

[37:25] not have what's the general strategy case

[37:33] by case basis. I mean, I've seen situations

[37:39] I drove by school the other day or town front street.

[37:48] So really

[37:50] » going back to South Lake what's all built around Carol High School right

[37:55] it's a case >> this park up here is baseball field

[38:02] » for everybody >> there's not a way to change so that's

[38:07] parts of recreation but not city parks but it's not public

[38:12] » yeah we can change it >> is that

[38:15] » it's primarily recreation But our city park is is that public or

[38:21] » park >> build off that would be any for like

[38:25] Lions Club to say park recreation private own

[38:28] » we can do that >> right so that it's not it's not confused

[38:32] with say the city's ball fields or anything

[38:45] Kelly right property. They can't sell

[38:57] that's not >> and that's why I think the distinction

[39:02] saying private owners would be good because

[39:06] It's not a city park. We don't maintain it.

[39:10] Right. >> Mr. Randolph,

[39:13] a portion of this property you think is similarly is it already locked in.

[39:20] » She's talked about being locked in. >> Well, she's if you look at the taxes on

[39:25] it, she's already got the way worded on the taxes. She's

[39:30] already got it locked in. But that's what she that's what her husband

[39:34] wildlife sanctuary is, you know, she has no siblings and her husband's siblings

[39:42] was his. So, if something ever happens to her, from what I understand, she's

[39:46] got a she's got that turned into maybe like a big company that she's

[39:54] going to will it to that's going to go to. Who knows what?

[39:58] » Is that a deep restriction? >> Well, no. No, it's not necessarily deep

[40:02] restriction. You just She changed it. It's like a tr Yeah, she's got it in a

[40:06] trust. >> But is it

[40:09] six? What is this? Not six. >> See, I'm I'm right. I'm right here.

[40:14] [clears throat] This is me. >> And then she starts Let's see. That's

[40:18] Spring Branch. >> There's a house on the corner, Spring

[40:21] Branch. And hers will start there, goes all the way to the

[40:24] » She's not talking. >> Well, part of it.

[40:26] » Part of it is. Yeah. She go She's next to Terry Tal. She goes way.

[40:30] » So that really leaves then. >> She comes 30 acres there.

[40:34] » But there's homes here. >> Yeah. Terry Terry's the only home there.

[40:40] That's >> So Terry Terry's right here on the

[40:44] corner. She goes all the way to the creek all the way. She goes all the way.

[40:51] So

[40:56] » I don't know where else >> any buffer here would be difficult

[41:01] because it's landlocked.

[41:05] this one. >> Yeah.

[41:08] » From industrial to reser

[41:22] between commercial.

[41:30] Well, presumption

[41:55] in there since we don't really have very much

[42:01] Again, my opinion that's a good area.

[42:07] » Well, if this this is the cities and I know that there's a couple properties

[42:12] over here, but on the wider map, this road empties to 199. This this road

[42:22] » and attaches. So this property, some of this property, if there were

[42:27] medium density, it could empty here or here and avoid that. But that's not in

[42:33] the city project terms what's in the city limits or near touching the ETJ.

[42:40] It's pretty well it's already designated in ways that I don't know that we could

[42:43] there's a way to change. I mean, there are already home there already homes

[42:47] here. I can't change that. Uh there already homes here.

[42:53] This is I don't know how many properties are over there

[43:00] » 10 acres. >> Yeah, we're we're anywhere from five to

[43:03] seven. I own seven. My daughter owns five.

[43:09] Yeah, Wilson owns he owns he bought his aunts. So he owns about 12.

[43:26] » Well, in terms of growth, there's nothing here right now. There's nothing

[43:30] here and here right now. This is tractor supply

[43:35] » and the nursing home. Is this the edge track?

[43:47] » This is

[43:50] close. >> All right. And we have already been

[43:53] approached by somebody with some interest in this.

[43:56] » Yes. You'll actually have a four acres of that right at the corner later this

[44:02] month and then annexation and zoning will come in September.

[44:06] So these two propert this area, this area and this area are the commercial

[44:12] designated commercial that you do not yet have commercial.

[44:18] » Yes, that's correct. >> That's a lot to fill in the next how

[44:22] frequently will we have these?

[44:26] I can't see all that disappearing in the next

[44:31] 24,

[44:37] » but unless there's some significant annexation, we're kind of

[44:42] » just tell you that anything's possible right now. So, so are we then tasked

[44:47] with should we look at what we would hope these properties these properties

[44:52] or these properties >> where does not stand where

[45:00] is this bittersweet at the beginning

[45:06] » it's

[45:09] so what's

[45:12] There's a church

[45:19] » and also that's >> on the north side of that

[45:28] » lady.

[45:36] Uh Perry. >> Yeah, Perry. She still lives up in that

[45:38] area. She has a little

[45:44] » sliveres.

[45:49] What's his name? Stoker.

[45:57] » Is there benefit to us covering some of this land use in our ETJs?

[46:04] » You can. Yeah. Uh the other thing about ETJ also is that

[46:09] theoretically you can enforce your subdivision regulations in your TJ. So

[46:13] if someone does not like your subition out and so um you are you are planning

[46:22] for an area potentially [clears throat] be out of I think you already have a few

[46:26] petitions that we need to map as is >> the risk under the the current state law

[46:33] is if you map out your land use plan into your ETJ and somebody sees that and

[46:38] they think hey they're fixing to do something on my land there's no petition

[46:41] to get out ETJ which then gives you zero control,

[46:45] right? And so, so >> should a future property owner decide

[46:51] they want >> Yeah. because then they got to get

[46:54] permission back into annex and so you know I think under the current state why

[47:00] it's good to put it out there I don't know that it's I don't know that it's

[47:03] necessarily wise either right so >> yeah and I think that's it's not going

[47:09] to have any practical impact but it could substantial impact and that you

[47:14] are going to have some people who simply don't understand what that means and

[47:18] like David said they're going to see that they're going to panic and they're

[47:22] find out that they can petition for ETJ release and they're just going to go

[47:25] file that petition and once it's filed we can't go coun them and say hey may

[47:29] not understand please

[47:34] Mr. got about 100 acres sitting out there right off 199 just east of the

[47:39] lynch property and of course Mr. Mooney has passed away

[47:44] but if you were to go tell his kids that

[47:48] we're going to we're going to put commercial on that or medium density or

[47:53] whatever there's a high probability they're just going to turn around and

[47:56] say get us out of your right because they at least the last conversations had

[48:01] they weren't interested in anything other than

[48:04] Right. So it may cause it may cause pain. The the other side of that

[48:09] Christina mentioned a second too is if property does develop that developer can

[48:14] come into the city and annex right then you're dealing with that developer. So

[48:19] but it's it's y'all's call to make I'm just in that scenario

[48:24] [clears throat] violating as a council the

[48:27] comprehensive plan. >> No not necessarily because if like I

[48:32] said it's a living document. someone were to come up especially in ETJ

[48:36] there's some cities that have ETJ just future development they don't even

[48:40] designate anything the reason we didn't look because primarily outj that's where

[48:44] it is minus you know a few of these parcels here and there but um yeah if

[48:51] that were to happen you had a developer come in say hey we want to annex then

[48:55] you would amend your future language

[49:00] » and that essentiallys

[49:04] Yeah, we'll have a record in the front of the plan that goes through or you

[49:07] have a date why it was amended or that way whoever's looking also.

[49:14] Okay.

[49:19] » It's really to think about the comp plan and the land use plan as guiding

[49:24] decisions, not necessarily restricting decisions.

[49:29] zoning is where you get to maybe restricting decisions, but

[49:33] the plan is just really this is kind of what we envisioned. Hey, this great

[49:37] opportunity comes up. We don't want to deny it just because it doesn't align

[49:42] unless it's substantial something.

[49:47] » Yeah. I mean, your plan should protect you from you don't want you into that

[49:55] one time, but you have a better alternative.

[50:14] land.

[50:19] » That's fairly recent though, right? >> Yes. About three, four years ago, the

[50:23] legisle passed a law that says you can petition for release from and a city has

[50:29] to release you. >> Several cities sued pretty much

[50:33] immediately saying that's unconstitutional. You don't have a take

[50:37] that authority away from us. That's still progressing through. So what we

[50:41] have done is we have adopted an ordinance that says okay you can file

[50:47] for release and the council has two options. They on it, which would could

[50:52] be seen as taking action to support that request. Or they take no action and it's

[50:59] approved by operation of law. Basically, it's approved because

[51:07] some of these courtesy this is all very legal

[51:14] potentially go back to the ones that we didn't take action on

[51:20] and say hey you were never

[51:24] the likelihood of that happening I'm not hopeful but that really was the only

[51:31] Yeah, we got legislative session that starts

[51:34] get worse. >> I have a feeling it will get worse. The

[51:39] state has historically last I don't know how many cycles has made it harder for

[51:44] local communities. So on every level zoning and everything involved so that's

[51:50] what our goal is to navigate best we can.

[52:06] You bet.

[52:23] » But uh so I said we met with the They have a he gave us a draft uh or let us

[52:31] look at a draft could keep it. Um he also made a lot of revisions during that

[52:36] meeting. So we're wait I think September was the time frame he gave a draft. Um

[52:42] the biggest thing the countyy's plan is very ambitious for some of their

[52:47] » rideways a lot of six lane divided which and so

[52:52] really it's whether or not we don't want to contradict a plan but we also want to

[52:56] be realistic in what you all envision happening and so um that's kind of where

[53:02] we're at is we'll have more information when the county releases their plan or

[53:06] gives us a draft and then we can compare. Um but for now we went through

[53:11] this was the big one that the county put in was the principal arterial he said

[53:15] six lane six would be very tight there we'll see um Williams

[53:24] we probably have to get about 20 ft of rideway the length of it to make it

[53:28] function as lane and that would be with no kind of shoulder acceleration

[53:33] acceleration six lane it's not likely especially

[53:39] they don't intend to make any improvements.

[53:42] So you have a six lane going into a two lane. It doesn't make sense. It's high

[53:49] and they had more out here in the EJ. I don't have those because I don't know

[53:52] the specifics, but they were also large right away. He had essentially a grid

[53:58] around the city. That's how most transportation planners plan. They want

[54:02] to get everything into a nice neat grid. In reality, roads don't work that way

[54:06] all the time. You kind of got to work with what you have. The county of this

[54:11] green, I believe it's already in design.

[54:16] » Design. Yeah, it's in design for [clears throat]

[54:19] Hutcherson to be extended across Old Town 51 and then to make that connection

[54:24] back to the L intersection. Their funding as far as expansion for capacity

[54:30] is how we found out today.

[54:35] So, it's not going to add any additional lanes. It's going to make the existing

[54:39] lane road more standard than it currently is. So it would be future

[54:44] projects that look at expanding that from the existing two lane

[54:50] » and also

[54:54] dumping on I think similar concerns about

[54:58] as well and they're supposedly supposed to be signal.

[55:03] » Yeah. So text has had a signal funded there for several years.

[55:09] We have a a lot of quite frequently it seems. So as soon as

[55:14] we get up to speed with one seems we have another one

[55:18] we currently have is fairly new to get status check from that last

[55:31] design right and so we just need to get new engine

[55:38] but my that this signal right here is already

[55:43] » and then the uh signal or intersection improvements would be doing a study

[55:49] essentially to evaluate the timing of those lights how to improve traffic on

[55:53] 51 if there's any additional signal improvements that could help the flow of

[55:58] traffic. the county from talking with them I don't think they had any

[56:02] intention of doing any major substantial changes to 51

[56:07] I think we even have it classified I think they may have had as art a minor

[56:11] arterial I have as art

[56:19] » so but here they're talking about widening

[56:23] widening not here >> they are looking at expansion to the

[56:30] where we see a lot of the traffic back up today from 199 to

[56:37] believe a lot of it is timing issues of the signal lights

[56:42] to promote traffic flow particularly during peak hours also since we did just

[56:47] have an expansion significant expansion project the likelihood of text growing a

[56:53] significant dollar amount towards expanding it yet again especially in an

[56:57] area they do not have any more rideway. They ate up the rideway they had with

[57:02] the last expansion project is unlikely. We have to look at alternative ways of

[57:07] making traffic flow and that's either moving traffic to another roadway

[57:12] intersection improvements timing of the lights but again the 519

[57:19] exped if they expand now some of our downtown

[57:31] right for example at the chamber literally

[57:40] without going into the east side of the square

[57:46] » and honestly from a planning perspective why would not

[57:52] you need to get traffic off >> and so using other

[57:56] » and we've had conversations with text about getting

[57:59] traffic off of 51 just had that conversation with engineer three weeks

[58:06] ago. The question is how because they are very open to doing that now but the

[58:11] only alternate route we have 18 wheelers to get around spring

[58:17] and I'm not about to advocate dumping all the 18 wheelers on the street that

[58:20] has the most schools right and so they they are open to to doing that but I

[58:28] can't see us using for that alterative >> but I love what you said it seems to me

[58:35] They redid the intersection >> 51 got worse.

[58:40] » The traffic from from north to south. >> I think there's some signalization

[58:45] timing issues there. And I also think that semi plays a significant role

[58:51] because everybody

[58:57] [clears throat] timing issues and you get what you see

[59:01] today. Like this morning it was backed up down

[59:08] » [clears throat] >> This is kind of getting in the weeds,

[59:09] but do they have a sensor that can tell how much the traffic is backed up or is

[59:13] it just timing? >> I believe it's just timing.

[59:16] » When you hit the on 51 at first, when you hit the crosswalk button, it will

[59:22] not change if there's more than four or five cars in either direction. You sit

[59:25] there and wait and wait until there's a sizable gap between cars, then it

[59:29] changes so you can walk. So the sensors are reading how many vehicles are coming

[59:32] before it'll change to a walk sign. >> Is that coincidental or is there a

[59:36] sensor? >> I I pressed that crosswalk a hund times

[59:39] a day. >> So the way that cross is supposed to

[59:42] work, >> it's reading the cars

[59:44] » is is it the way it was designed and this and these are conversations we've

[59:48] had with text on numerous occasions over the last couple years. The way that

[59:52] intersection was designed was it was supposed to be a steady flow

[59:56] of green for north and southbound traffic on 51 until either a pedestrian

[1:00:02] activated the crosswalk or a car going east or west on first

[1:00:07] » trigger the sensor, right? Or trigger trigger the

[1:00:10] » cars do trigger it much quicker >> than the pedestrian.

[1:00:13] » The pedestrian does not. >> So, but when you hit that pedestrian

[1:00:17] signal, >> it's supposed to immediately start the

[1:00:19] cycle process. Yeah. >> So, so

[1:00:23] it was always my understanding that east and west now first is censored

[1:00:28] north and south 51 is not but these are conversations.

[1:00:32] » Well, and it could be that there are sensors there but the signals operated

[1:00:35] on the timer just because the sensor is there in

[1:00:39] the other is that when that was designed in the way that David said they

[1:00:46] designed it at that time did the constant flow of

[1:00:51] east west traffic that we saw after the project was over and the roadway

[1:00:56] reopened. Now all of a sudden there's constant cross

[1:01:00] » they destroyed all the other roads. So every other road got beat to death. So

[1:01:05] all the people who would have went other routes have to get on 51. That's the

[1:01:08] influx of traffic to 51. >> So you give me an idea what we're

[1:01:11] dealing with text. >> A few a few months ago we were walking

[1:01:15] chamber office. We hit the crosswalk and it said wait before you cross. Fairfield

[1:01:25] I'm not at le

[1:01:32] » it's enough of an issue where I'm worried about

[1:01:34] » I think I'm going to lose business going across the street because if you have to

[1:01:37] hit that button and it's raining no one's going to stand there for

[1:01:39] » well three or four minutes in the rain. >> We've got a new area engineer. I finally

[1:01:43] had the meeting three weeks ago and we have council next week but and are

[1:01:49] getting together. He's coming out to make a site visit with me to Springtown

[1:01:54] in early September and we're going to talk about the crosswalks. We're going

[1:01:58] to talk about the intersections. We're going to talk about the timings. We're

[1:02:00] going to talk about 199. We have a whole whole list of stuff to go over there

[1:02:04] with them. >> Do our planter barricades come into

[1:02:07] segregate the >> the sidewalk from we need to have right

[1:02:12] and so it's >> scares me. I come around the front door.

[1:02:15] » So, but so the new area engineer does very open, right, to to doing what he

[1:02:22] can to help spring out that honestly that hasn't always been the case, right?

[1:02:28] But the new guy seems like he seems pretty solid right now. And at the end

[1:02:32] of the day, we're going to put all this into a plan so that way when they are

[1:02:37] having discussions, they say, "Look, this is what our council see presidents,

[1:02:40] these are all issues. It's not just David coming and saying this, this is

[1:02:44] the entire city. These are issues that we're experiencing.

[1:02:50] You've taken a lot of notes. What What in do you have?

[1:03:02] » No matter what they do design, by the time they get it built, it be obsolete.

[1:03:09] » You know, it's just way because it takes so long.

[1:03:14] I'll be dead before. >> It' be nice to have a loop around.

[1:03:20] » That's what I was gonna say. Not very long ago, the plan was that this loop to

[1:03:25] connect to what is Hutcherson like routers over here. This was supposed to

[1:03:31] connect here and they decided this was going to be too expensive.

[1:03:35] » Too expensive. Yeah. They couldn't get enough right away. They buy a whole lot

[1:03:38] of houses. >> Well,

[1:03:41] so somebody in a the county level meeting some people who live in Crescent

[1:03:47] were talking about that to get from Crescent to was it Winstar Winar Ch

[1:03:52] what's north what's north of Gainesville Winstar

[1:03:55] » that it was faster to go through Springtown to Gainesville Springtown

[1:04:01] Gainesville than it was to get on try to get on 35 go up

[1:04:05] » and the bottleneck >> from the whole of the whole trip

[1:04:10] this is the bottleneck and there was discussions We all do a casino

[1:04:18] so far. [laughter]

[1:04:22] » I know a couple guys. >> Well, and I said that just go to get

[1:04:27] north >> to go north to

[1:04:31] and bypass all of challenges from South Florida. What's that?

[1:04:37] » It is they it's quick most parts of the day. Google and Apple will both take

[1:04:43] that. But as they widen this this bottleneck,

[1:04:48] » it's never going to this won't change. And so the thought has to be, do you go

[1:04:51] around or do you go around? >> And they and the reality is they could

[1:04:55] actually widen 51, but but not not significant enough because the bottom if

[1:05:00] they even widen it to the north, they're not going to be able to do it through

[1:05:02] the square. So the bottleneck's still going to be there. May be shorter, but

[1:05:06] it's still going to be there. Seems like all your small cities though

[1:05:10] when you travel and you go through these small cities and you got downtown areas

[1:05:13] they're the same way as go through the wrong time of day.

[1:05:18] » Yeah. Down the difference.

[1:05:22] » Exactly. But the difference is if you go through our square and you go through

[1:05:27] square. Yeah. Granberry square backs up too. Right.

[1:05:30] » The difference is look for the 18 traffic in square.

[1:05:33] » It's not there. >> Doesn't exist. Right.

[1:05:35] » Because they're going around. That's right.

[1:05:38] » So the only two goss

[1:05:47] » but that 18-wheeler is not going to take that turn or that

[1:05:51] » they will >> these streets unfortunately will not

[1:05:56] handle the traffic. >> They still come down our street you know

[1:06:00] since the construction on 51 and they had them routed. Any of them that knows

[1:06:04] that you can turn a tractor supply and then come down to get it back to 51.

[1:06:08] » Do you see something? >> Oh, all the time.

[1:06:10] » All the time. [clears throat] >> So,

[1:06:15] this is this is my personal issue here. I know, but this is that subject's

[1:06:20] talking about. So, this as a as a collector doesn't really make sense.

[1:06:25] This is land that's not available for sale. I know that's been widened. That's

[1:06:30] been widened, but the normal path is for people to take this job here

[1:06:37] or just go down this way. But as an alternate path, this is the usual way

[1:06:44] people go down through third street. Third street could be widened. That's

[1:06:48] that's more of a potential for at least a jog of a zigzag collector, which

[1:06:56] doesn't really make it a collector, but it would be a path like this potentially

[1:07:02] like this if you want an alternate more diagonal path to get from 51.

[1:07:10] » Yeah. And David, I understand your concerns here, but these people are

[1:07:13] going to have that same concern >> and they're already getting a lot of

[1:07:16] traffic. You might have the same concern if you're going to do something like

[1:07:20] that. Just a suggestion is you jog it and then turn it back up this way and

[1:07:24] finish it out and not send it down >> or you consider just

[1:07:30] » here. The other thing to keep in mind too is

[1:07:34] collector the definition of a collector is getting people from local areas onto

[1:07:40] arterials. So they'll go places and so really it kind of functions correctly as

[1:07:46] a collector. from those neighborhoods out to the two arterials. Um whereas you

[1:07:51] know the green the minor arterials those are designed to carry heavier traffic.

[1:07:55] That's where you get truck traffic ideally. Um you would not want truck

[1:07:59] traffic coming through or heavy amounts of traffic other than like school

[1:08:02] traffic maybe on a collector street.

[1:08:06] » Yeah. I mean I agree with Dton. I think would be functioning as intended as a

[1:08:11] collector but >> if we have to look at an alternative

[1:08:16] probably going to be your best bet. Um the

[1:08:20] difficulty is we really wanted to identify a collector that went from one

[1:08:26] side of the city to the other side of the city. And I don't think you're going

[1:08:29] to accomplish that with Sixth Street because it doesn't get anywhere near 51,

[1:08:33] let alone cross it. >> Um

[1:08:37] 9th Street difficult. I mean has historically been

[1:08:43] the midtown east west collector and because it does eventually feed into

[1:08:50] work which as you see is identified as a collector even going out into the ETJ

[1:08:54] it's again a natural continuation of the roadway

[1:09:01] coming through the old one >> it does

[1:09:04] right through there [clears throat] built bunch of houses thereatunately

[1:09:09] these are driveways along there. It's not a reserve reverse backyard.

[1:09:15] » Ideally, in a perfect world, you would have say people are coming to to the

[1:09:20] schools. They would come if they're coming from the southside, they'd come

[1:09:22] up and come up. This would collect people from interior

[1:09:29] onto these collected >> as opposed to

[1:09:33] like this. >> Now, whether or not people use it that

[1:09:36] way is one thing or another. There's things construction

[1:09:40] you know, all kinds of other things that will deter people from taking tradition.

[1:09:45] » If we're going to do a collector here and this path makes the most sense, but

[1:09:50] may not be necessarily the best route, >> right?

[1:09:54] » It might not be the safest route either. >> Well, I could pedestrian and potential

[1:10:01] auto pedestrian interactions.

[1:10:09] quick question >> on using I know semis in schools don't

[1:10:14] is there any precedent for time of use and speed limitations so you can use

[1:10:22] divert any semis down pojo during this time window at 20 miles an hour is all

[1:10:27] they're allowed to move and just enforce the heck out of the speed limit thing

[1:10:31] but that way it sends a portion of it during certain times of the day and

[1:10:35] keeps it off of the other roads or does that not help?

[1:10:45] » California does it statewide 55 period if you have more than two axles on the

[1:10:49] ground. >> There are mechanisms to have truck only

[1:10:53] speed limits on state roadways. So that that is a possibility.

[1:10:57] » I guess what I was understanding you to say was reduce them during reduce their

[1:11:01] speed during a certain time of day. anytime they get on that roadway, unless

[1:11:07] school's out and then out, they're limited to 25 miles an hour, 20 miles an

[1:11:11] hour, which is so if we do something like that, first of all, we got to make

[1:11:14] sure it to state traffic law and uniform traffic

[1:11:21] control.

[1:11:25] However, I would say if we do something like that, they'll start trying to put

[1:11:30] times on it's going to be mph

[1:11:34] 24 hours. >> I agree with that. But the window of

[1:11:37] use, they can use it x time to x time. They can't use it during school release.

[1:11:41] » I don't think I don't think they'd be able to legally do that because they

[1:11:44] have the right to move their product. >> Well, 51's still open during school

[1:11:48] hours. They just couldn't use that cut across during school or during school.

[1:11:53] » If they were limited, truckers are always going to take the route of least

[1:11:56] resistance. So if there's limitations on the road

[1:12:07] » okay so here this is an imaginary collector

[1:12:09] » section that doesn't exist >> and that is specifically to avoid these

[1:12:14] driveways here right

[1:12:18] » this is an east west

[1:12:22] » exist before >> so this does exist right here this road

[1:12:27] But that design existed before those homes were there.

[1:12:31] » These are not even 5 years old. >> Okay. So practically people are using

[1:12:35] this. >> Correct.

[1:12:39] » Just take this around here. Cut through here. Widen Third Street which has

[1:12:44] » much more rightway. >> Yeah.

[1:12:45] » And the ability to obtain more rightway and take it back through here.

[1:12:49] » Yeah. >> And then you also school which is the

[1:12:54] most important.

[1:12:59] Just take it

[1:13:05] like that to make them go. You know, they're trying to travel east, but we're

[1:13:10] going to drop them down, make them go, and then make them come back.

[1:13:15] Is that how we would typically see it? >> Unless they want to do this.

[1:13:25] We can explore some other options. The main thing is getting more borders from

[1:13:31] east to west, right? That's that's the main goal, right?

[1:13:44] » Probably

[1:13:49] are not significantly different. Do you want traffic through here.

[1:13:58] » But then once you get here, you either got to go north,

[1:14:03] » right? >> Yeah.

[1:14:05] » So this is not this is not the word. It's where do you go from this corner?

[1:14:11] If you bring it here, where do you go from here? You have people go up or

[1:14:15] down.

[1:14:24] um flood plane. >> So guys, let's go back and look at that

[1:14:29] again, >> right? And and see the pros and cons to

[1:14:35] that. We don't mind doing that. Again, the overall goal is to gain east

[1:14:41] and west access. That's the >> Yeah,

[1:14:45] » it upross

[1:14:50] these are just as here's how we think traffic is going

[1:14:53] to roadways. It's not that you're saying we are definitely putting road.

[1:14:58] » Well, yes and no because it it is that is what you're saying. But as land

[1:15:02] develops, just like we did here and we did here, we required the developer to

[1:15:09] build that section of the road. >> But when there

[1:15:16] is about 11 years old, And so

[1:15:28] » there was nothing in the subdivision or that allowed us to

[1:15:33] requ

[1:15:49] But the street itself is the correct width.

[1:15:54] » The issue that M's bringing up is that the driveways back into as opposed to

[1:15:58] hammerhead out of that nature. So that's that's the issue

[1:16:02] » or it could have been the subdivision

[1:16:07] could have been

[1:16:15] » but we can't go back and reverse the So the question is what do we do here right

[1:16:20] this is how it's currently designed right so that's something I think we

[1:16:25] need to probably go back and look at the same issue

[1:16:32] as well this area is the exact same >> very very similar

[1:16:38] » and then you got that jaw right there that's going to slow track down at least

[1:16:44] » which would require

[1:16:48] design

[1:16:52] 45

[1:16:58] based subdivisions either except

[1:17:04] » well

[1:17:12] I don't know what the answer is tonight I don't find an answer

[1:17:17] Well, this

[1:17:21] blue is these are county this is county

[1:17:27] that's county that's counties right we have to have their they have to fill

[1:17:33] these needs >> these things happen then this is less

[1:17:37] significant we have we need this to happen we need some east west in the

[1:17:42] middle of town but when these come to exist

[1:17:46] There's going to be some relief. >> That's also the road that has the signal

[1:17:51] access to >> this one.

[1:17:53] » No. >> Oh, gotcha.

[1:17:58] Which is important. >> Y

[1:18:03] I'm sorry. I may say street. >> This is us.

[1:18:08] » This This is us. >> This is the green is is minor artery.

[1:18:13] » So what is This is the city limit. >> Yeah, it might just be

[1:18:18] » No, that's >> this says spring city limits is this

[1:18:23] color. >> So I thought maybe this was count

[1:18:27] » that section. I'm sorry. >> This the county has talked to us about

[1:18:34] taking over this road sometime in the future.

[1:18:38] » And that's not the only instance of something like that. If you look here

[1:18:44] took that road

[1:18:47] » to get to this

[1:18:54] Yorkenver.

[1:19:04] » They did. If you drive further up, they overlaid some of it. So we just

[1:19:18] do

[1:19:31] » rather the county fix it now. >> Oh certainly. And that that's the

[1:19:35] conversations that we're having here is that we want them to

[1:19:52] » take over.

[1:19:58] So what's what's the traffic in this section here?

[1:20:08] Yeah, I would say that's pretty accurate.

[1:20:23] » I'm sorry.

[1:20:27] » These people here are going to go this way.

[1:20:30] » So, they're probably

[1:20:34] I would say

[1:20:38] » West.

[1:20:44] » So unless there's a traffic back up here.

[1:20:52] » I I would think subdivision builds here. I think it's I

[1:20:57] think it might be a big split. They do go this way. This is where they need to

[1:21:03] be this way because they want to get down. It's just hard to say.

[1:21:08] » And then if that develops the way we've talked about in the past, there's going

[1:21:12] to be very little traffic.

[1:21:20] This is this is not often traveled area. So neighborhoods like there's not a lot

[1:21:27] of traffic.

[1:21:31] I think if that even if that were to go through that neighborhood and I'm here,

[1:21:38] I'm probably still going to go that way. >> Yes.

[1:21:40] » Because of the fear of what bottleneck is going to be,

[1:21:43] » right? >> Officially it's 20. What's the speed

[1:21:47] limit for local roads? >> We've also got 20 miles hour.

[1:21:56] We have 20 miles hour >> local. Doesn't the state just make it

[1:22:00] easier for us to lower? >> The state just passed a law this last

[1:22:04] legislative session that allow cities to lower internal speed limits to a certain

[1:22:09] degree. Otherwise, you had to do this whole 85th percentile study in order for

[1:22:13] that to happen. We have not lowered any of our news. We have not yet.

[1:22:21] So in terms of the throw for a plan when the county is working on the county's

[1:22:26] side, we need this to have been updated, not necessarily changed.

[1:22:31] » It just needs to have been approved by this committee

[1:22:36] because they're going to ask for our thoroughare plan.

[1:22:38] » Ultimately, it'll be approved by the council.

[1:22:40] » Yeah, sure. But the Parker County thorough affair

[1:22:45] committee meets midepptember >> which is before the council

[1:22:50] » but we can take this information >> yes

[1:22:52] » to them then >> and they've seen this they they have

[1:22:55] seen the county has seen this >> right but they haven't seen what we've

[1:22:58] talked about because we're not talking about it till now. Yeah, that's that was

[1:23:01] we were going to have this meeting and then I'm [clears throat] gonna provide

[1:23:04] these change or whatever we decide on and then he's going to take them and he

[1:23:10] told me he would get a draft of the county's plan to me for review sometime

[1:23:14] early September. He didn't want us to have it because commissioners had fully

[1:23:18] reviewed it. So, and that's when I can fill this out a little bit more to

[1:23:23] reflect their plan. We can compare specifically if there's any arterials

[1:23:28] you look like higher than what they have maybe like 51 I think they have as a

[1:23:33] minor and then or if there's just a really certain

[1:23:39] circumstance where you think okay this alignment does not work or something

[1:23:43] else and that's a conversation with them to update their plan or they're just

[1:23:48] showing different So yeah, so on that note, I think it's

[1:23:52] important that we point out rather than signal propos,

[1:24:02] but the ang that intersection is make it more

[1:24:09] proper than it would

[1:24:17] intersection. We're going to have to rebuild some of the road alignments into

[1:24:20] the intersection. >> It's also a lot more expensive.

[1:24:23] » It is a lot. Yes. >> Now, we we did a single warrant study

[1:24:27] years ago and it warrants some type of intersection improvement and you seen

[1:24:32] our current plan. It's roundabout city. Every intersection is a roundabout.

[1:24:37] We're not suggesting we go back to that.

[1:24:42] » I think that's a roundabout. >> You think it should be?

[1:24:46] » No, I think it's that's the Parker County plan.

[1:24:52] » That's their plan. >> Maybe. I can't I don't recall. I don't

[1:24:56] talk about that intersection when he was here. I know with certainty that that's

[1:25:00] what they talked about the last meeting but most

[1:25:05] places are going towards a lot

[1:25:09] » but this is a light >> you get the traffic going one direction

[1:25:14] though and you're sitting there on the side and you can't get in

[1:25:18] » it ain't it ain't working I promise you >> only

[1:25:22] heard that wasn't going to be >> I said it it's a light intersection

[1:25:26] improvement so It could [clears throat] be straighten up the straighten up the

[1:25:29] approach of the road >> because that ramp is gross

[1:25:35] » that incline.

[1:25:39] » So it's not necessarily light. It's just

[1:25:44] » I think they're going to build

[1:25:54] » and

[1:25:58] spills over here. >> And where was that?

[1:26:00] » J Woody and 51. >> Talking to the county J Woody and Ocean.

[1:26:06] Is that the other one that goes? >> Um I think the county's intention is to

[1:26:10] try to get a lot of traffic going east to west on those. The struggle with that

[1:26:14] is both those dead in on 51 or 199. So it's just going to dump more traffic

[1:26:18] right into Springtown versus getting >> the intersection go

[1:26:24] 199. Yeah. Why would you call it an intersection? It's just a multiple

[1:26:30] » way. So in other areas of the county, if their intention is to get people off

[1:26:35] onto those roads, then that would inherently make worse.

[1:26:43] I think the hope is for [clears throat] people coming from the south that are

[1:26:46] going to head west that they go around here. But more importantly, the people

[1:26:51] coming from the west to the east instead of stop to stop sign.

[1:26:58] I think they're going to Are they going to widen this?

[1:27:01] » That's a million dollar question. >> It depends on which which day you talk

[1:27:05] to, >> right?

[1:27:08] » We learned that was the new plan. proposal

[1:27:11] » rather than this one. >> Yes, that was our reaction is that if

[1:27:15] they're going to propose dumping that amount of traffic on that road, they're

[1:27:19] going to have to do something or it's not going to

[1:27:24] » and so let me give you the freezing nickels response. We'll check into that.

[1:27:29] Right? So, so the answer is we don't know. We have told them straight out of

[1:27:35] our mouths that it needs to be wiped, right? And we advocate for that

[1:27:41] except for this section right here on our road.

[1:27:49] Honestly, the decision to jump to I I know it was cost decision but to avoid

[1:27:53] this probably reduces that effectiveness by at least 50%. Because people would

[1:27:59] have been much more likely to take that go

[1:28:13] This was very >> fantast.

[1:28:27] » So, back to this piece. I know I I completely understand the worry about 18

[1:28:33] wheelers passing at least three schools. But

[1:28:38] if you drive to any

[1:28:43] a lot of our school, a lot of schools in our little part of the world are very

[1:28:47] close to a thoroughare because that makes it easy, pick up, drop off. And

[1:28:52] when this was built, high school was built, we didn't have the traffic we

[1:28:56] have now. But if this were a 30 all the time. Unless it's a school pick

[1:29:01] up or drop off when it drops to 20, right?

[1:29:06] Those 18 wheelers going down the road, other than the fact they can't stop as

[1:29:10] fast, but it's that's not that's not faster than traffic.

[1:29:14] » So, yeah. So, the only

[1:29:19] different reason

[1:29:25] that is us to them that we need to figure out how

[1:29:30] to regulate like how to regulate that traffic better on

[1:29:37] pojo. It's an absolute alternative and frankly it's the best alternative we got

[1:29:42] because they come south on 51 they hang right on pojo come back out to 199 and

[1:29:47] vice versa right it's it's a great alternative the question textile hasn't

[1:29:51] been able to tell us and we haven't been able to handle yet exactly how much of

[1:29:56] the 18 number one how much of We don't have those accounts we can give

[1:30:02] him but we don't have them right now. Second of all, uh

[1:30:07] what kind of what kind of

[1:30:12] refuding are we going to get school district?

[1:30:20] » Well, and I think what makes a small difference to some of the situations you

[1:30:25] were describing is that you have pedestrian traffic on the north stadium.

[1:30:33] And I think that is probably a huge factor.

[1:30:37] Is there a way to eliminate or mitigate the safety concerns of kids physically

[1:30:43] walking across the road when we're putting additional traffic

[1:30:48] » flashing signs on both entrance or both end of the road 3:00 to 5:00 you can't

[1:30:55] » must go 51. I mean, I don't I don't know if that's legal. You talking about

[1:31:00] prohibit them from being there during those times? I think that's what you're

[1:31:03] talking. >> No, that's I wasn't at all suggesting

[1:31:06] that we dictate that they take that. >> It wasn't I wasn't saying close this to

[1:31:11] 18

[1:31:14] if that's an option to go this way. Let's just slow it down. Right.

[1:31:19] » So, let's slow it down. >> The other thing that just transparency

[1:31:26] the text on that thing is if the city would allow them to make that a truck

[1:31:33] route. There is a possibility that could

[1:31:36] actually become a spur where textile becomes the required maintainer of that.

[1:31:43] And the conversation that we've had with text is they would take this on as a

[1:31:48] spur and relinquish this spur back to the

[1:31:51] city and the city takes control of all the first

[1:31:55] question. If you have no through truck signs all over the place, what would be

[1:32:00] different than doing no truck through during a time window?

[1:32:04] » So, what's the difference? >> The difference is the types of streets,

[1:32:07] right? You can do no go through trucks for reser

[1:32:13] can't travel on resial street unless it's got point of delivery or point of

[1:32:16] pickup, >> right? West Air is a good example. They

[1:32:19] come up second street all the time, but they can legally do that. But

[1:32:25] moving somebody from Nevada out to Texas can't cut up through our residential

[1:32:30] street unless they have a destination >> we have

[1:32:38] train >> right so

[1:32:43] and honestly guys tell you I'd have to go back I'd have to look at state laws

[1:32:49] changes every two years right at a whim most of the

[1:32:54] But we don't have to go back to see what laws are existing right now to regulate

[1:32:58] that type of traffic certain times of days

[1:33:02] or whatever it may be. It's certainly an alternative.

[1:33:05] So is the guiding idea

[1:33:14] is to get the heavy truck traffic out of the center of the square.

[1:33:20] » So the center of the square becomes becomes more walkable and more more

[1:33:25] » more user friendly. >> User friendly more tourist attraction

[1:33:28] type >> I mean that's what Grand took it all

[1:33:33] out. They have a lot more And I'm working with at least four other

[1:33:38] cities right now that we're dealing with the exact same issue of trying to get

[1:33:41] truck traffic out of the square onto a truck. Some of those have truck routes

[1:33:46] that promise years and they're not. But the challenge is y'all

[1:33:52] don't have a clear route right now. I would say could be but it's not a clear

[1:33:58] truck in my mind. Williams is a long way from being wide enough to take The

[1:34:04] bridge along. >> Yeah. So

[1:34:09] » the bridge is going to have to be widened

[1:34:12] » at some point anyway even if this is not right.

[1:34:17] » City about nine years ago. Same thing with county commissioners at the time

[1:34:22] » and he didn't his way then either. So when I moved here that was a little

[1:34:27] bridge and now it's just

[1:34:32] now it's just a little bridge. Say rent. >> But when they did it, why did they go

[1:34:37] ahead and allow for that >> while you're there?

[1:34:40] » Somebody in this room asked a question. >> By the time it got built, it was

[1:34:45] obsolete. >> I don't know. That's like saying

[1:34:49] it was too crowded to begin with. >> This is extension

[1:34:54] right along the creek.

[1:34:58] » So the county proposed third or something, but it was

[1:35:03] multiple

[1:35:16] » one as opposed to three or four

[1:35:25] » it's pretty low >> a consideration is right now we do have

[1:35:30] limited roads that the creek. And so in the event of some type of evacuation,

[1:35:36] natural disaster, if those are impacted, not usable, then that to number is

[1:35:41] reduced. So you're going to see significantly higher levels of traffic

[1:35:45] and potential emergency. And so you do want to plan for additional

[1:35:53] evacuation routes, for lack of better terms, that you're not relying on the

[1:35:57] same street, 51,

[1:36:05] I mean that's also crosses

[1:36:13] and so it doesn't take much

[1:36:24] emergency.

[1:36:31] Have we had this without a commission in the last

[1:36:34] » not in the last 10 years that I've seen >> which the one

[1:36:44] » did it did it? >> Yeah. When it flooded

[1:36:47] in 05 and that that bridge was of course it was a little bridge then

[1:36:54] bridge. Yeah. It was over. >> Yeah. It has not it that bridge has not

[1:36:59] flooded since I've been here. Street has

[1:37:08] » the improvements to 51. That was one raising the bridge.

[1:37:24] It's not as >> this one is not this is this has

[1:37:30] clearance there. this. So this could be

[1:37:37] » so the reality is this route

[1:37:44] stream makes sense down there.

[1:37:50] The true issue is this right.

[1:37:56] You all have to tell us which one. >> Can we draw something? What were we

[1:38:00] thinking here and widening third and then back up this way at some point?

[1:38:06] » You said this way that way. >> So just

[1:38:12] playing devil's advocate here. If we turn this this way

[1:38:19] and this residential community changes over the next two to three years. How

[1:38:24] many of these people this way to go all the way out this way?

[1:38:34] So it goes back it goes back to what

[1:38:41] what's the most peaceful route to get people from point A to point B,

[1:38:46] right? And does and of course the cost involved in that because

[1:38:53] developers build this, we would have to build this,

[1:38:57] » right? And we would have to build this. >> You have to acquire that property too.

[1:39:02] Yes. And that property I have been told pastors have changed.

[1:39:09] » First Baptist, >> but I've been told by the previous

[1:39:11] pastor that that property they probably never sell. I don't know why the same

[1:39:18] way or not. But any improvements from this point here

[1:39:24] this way down here

[1:39:29] will be the city's responsibility. Whereas this

[1:39:35] I want to keep I have another question. >> We thought about future commercial

[1:39:41] development affecting traffic patterns. So where's everybody going at the peak

[1:39:45] times? Everybody's dumping on the 51. Are they all heading to Brookers? Does

[1:39:50] development of another grocery store on the other side of town alleviate some of

[1:39:53] that 5:00 traffic because they're not all trying to get to the same grocery

[1:39:56] store? >> Fixing our actual roads we have. So

[1:40:00] everyone's taking the same roads to get on 51. Well, if all the connectors were

[1:40:06] not potholed and things like that, the traffic I mean it's ones and twos. It's

[1:40:10] small, but they're diverting out. They're taking their own path instead of

[1:40:13] well, we know this road's nice and we can go right over to 51. That's what's

[1:40:16] bottlenecking all those areas. So, all of the internal streets being

[1:40:24] clean, nicer, easier to traverse, more places to go on the other side of town

[1:40:29] so everyone's not heading the same direction. Do we really want to? You see

[1:40:32] towns die. Springtown's big enough. We're a modern era. Probably not going

[1:40:35] to. But do we want to loop around town where everyone's like, "I was going to

[1:40:39] eat on the square, but it's out of the way now."

[1:40:42] » Do you want to send people away from all of our You see towns die like this a

[1:40:46] lot. Take a road trip. >> Well, and and I don't disagree with you.

[1:40:50] So, what we do to combat that sever several things, and this is I want to

[1:40:53] give you a real >> 50sec

[1:40:56] » clip of it. If we move traffic, we traffic. The only intent of that traffic

[1:41:03] will be truck traffic. So that it will allow for a more pedestrian friendly

[1:41:08] » area which actually will drive businesses up in the

[1:41:13] » Yeah. But if you have a loop around town, if unless it says trucks only, I'm

[1:41:17] hopping on it because I'm tired of sitting on my truck. I've been

[1:41:21] » Well, yeah. But >> so

[1:41:23] » I'm not passing by. I'm not >> I'm just tell you that traditionally if

[1:41:26] if you don't see a problem with people shopping in Granberry Square, Right. But

[1:41:30] you don't see trucks very >> right. So as our square develops, right?

[1:41:35] And and one of the tasks the council's given me in the past is to make the

[1:41:39] square more walkable. That's what we're working on, right? That's why you see

[1:41:43] food trucks and that's why you see you're going to see a mural soon. Those

[1:41:47] type of things, things that make it more people shade out there.

[1:41:52] » But shade would be nice. Yes. >> But but when

[1:41:58] » our square just like City square is a point of destination. It is not it's not

[1:42:04] a point of travel. In other words, people will come to the square just

[1:42:08] because they want to come to the square. They'll come there because dining,

[1:42:12] entertainment, whatever we've got going on, Christmas stuff, they're going to

[1:42:16] come to the square because squares and you chime in here, you've done a lot of

[1:42:20] it. And Jason Clunch, who is probably the most downtown square planner I know,

[1:42:27] will tell you that your destination point what you want to try to keep out

[1:42:31] of the square but those who do not have the desire to to stop that would be your

[1:42:36] 18 you keep your car traffic coming through there they may come through what

[1:42:41] sent you that sounds good let's stop there right but if they're stuck behind

[1:42:45] 18 for 20 minutes trying to get through the square they're going to go no let's

[1:42:48] head on down the road so square town squares in any city should be

[1:42:53] destination point I'm not making fun of my neighbors the

[1:42:57] south many Did you see the Weatherford Square just be

[1:43:01] right. When I first moved to Weatherford, it was desolate. I remember

[1:43:06] going to the square as a kid watching Batman movies on movies,

[1:43:10] right? Weatherford finally said, "You know what? This should be a destination

[1:43:14] point." and what happened from that point, business improvements,

[1:43:18] activities, things that so I wouldn't worry about truck traffic

[1:43:23] coming off the square because your square if done correctly

[1:43:26] correctly is going to be best. The other thing that we talked about this last

[1:43:29] about 50 seconds is we will at some point once we figure out how to do it,

[1:43:34] we'll be putting up way finding signs. So that will direct people into the

[1:43:39] square, right? A restaurant for dining for things that way finding signs will

[1:43:43] help get them I'm up to about three times a week. Oh,

[1:43:47] we never we've been out here four or five years. We didn't know you were over

[1:43:49] here. >> Four days a week. That happens.

[1:43:52] » Yeah, exactly. And that's all

[1:44:05] I

[1:44:08] kind of pitch on squares is that squares are destination points.

[1:44:14] tourist points, right? So, you got to figure out how to pull them

[1:44:20] » and people are going to be more likely to stop in the square. They're not

[1:44:23] already soggated by the time they get up there in traffic.

[1:44:30] » Yeah, I think for for the neighborhood you can get to

[1:44:36] that stupid crosswalk. Yeah. And

[1:44:40] » I'm telling you, >> I'll add that text on this.

[1:44:42] » You come out there with me. I'll take you across. You hit that button and just

[1:44:45] » That's funny because I went to the gun store today,

[1:44:48] » right? >> Yeah.

[1:44:49] » And I went I walked because I needed to see if I could climb Paul Gregory and I

[1:44:52] went to the gun store today. >> Push the button. Wait 15 seconds.

[1:44:58] » And was able to get across. >> Look each direction when you do it. If

[1:45:01] there's more than two to four cars, >> it takes a lot longer. If it's one or

[1:45:06] two, >> I'm just pleased it said wait to cross

[1:45:08] first at 90, not wait to cross living at Oak, right?

[1:45:11] » It's only Tuesday, it messes up once a week.

[1:45:15] » Okay, Don, where do we need to go from here? What do we need? What do you need

[1:45:17] from us? What do you need from this group?

[1:45:20] » Uh, so I think from here, I'm going to go back and make edits to the land map.

[1:45:23] I can put some variations of thares on here and probably bring it back to you.

[1:45:29] We have a better idea of the county's plan. Um, if the county plan doesn't

[1:45:33] come out until the hall then we'll have this as an option and then you know

[1:45:38] leave it open to discussion for the public. Um I think the next item on the

[1:45:42] agenda is just a town hall. So we're planning to run that with a presentation

[1:45:46] of the draft plans like 75% draft plan and then again stations. We'll have some

[1:45:52] more downtown and park specific stations and of course we'll have the land use

[1:45:56] map and the map. Um, and that's tally scheduled for the 15th unless anyone in

[1:46:02] this group. >> Yes.

[1:46:06] » Yeah. I mean, if everybody in this room is good, we'll start

[1:46:17] with 15. Anybody

[1:46:25] » call

[1:46:29] I'll just go eat. >> Yeah.

[1:46:30] » So, we might be going to Colorado. >> The definition of these streets is

[1:46:36] » local collector does have influence in in our ordinances,

[1:46:40] » you know. So, how are you categorizing these width, by

[1:46:47] » Yeah, we can pull whatever's in the ordinance specifically. That was just

[1:46:50] generalized based on what I

[1:46:56] ultimately do with the county.

[1:47:02] » Yeah. Because I think in some areas there will be some that are specific to

[1:47:06] collectors.

[1:47:12] » So before we leave, what what are we going to explore here?

[1:47:17] » I was a dotted line or something. >> Yeah. I was going to say we can put a an

[1:47:21] alternate uh route on there and have it as a discussion town hall if you want.

[1:47:30] Usually people are going to take this street by experience

[1:47:36] taking kids to school. So you're already going

[1:47:44] to be flying through their neighborhood.

[1:47:52] But that's that's to avoid 51. So the school traffic's not adding 51. They're

[1:47:58] trying to to get out of work.

[1:48:03] That's just from experience. I mean, I live on a dead end street and

[1:48:09] there's cars that I know that aren't our neighborhood.

[1:48:12] » We're the busiest dead street. >> We are so busy.

[1:48:18] » They fly like 45 miles down that street for practice.

[1:48:22] » For practice. They parked in the old Yale parking lot

[1:48:28] » where Yale used to be >> I'm not kidding 50 miles and so it's a

[1:48:33] straight shot and you can't see >> because it's a hill. So I mean

[1:48:38] » we don't we don't have that luxury either. People are going to drive

[1:48:41] because they're going to point and honestly mom and dad don't want to go

[1:48:46] down. I would take this street. I always take

[1:48:50] this to get to middle school. high school

[1:48:56] people are trying to go from across the city and not just

[1:49:02] they're going to find

[1:49:06] » and they're probably

[1:49:18] not

[1:49:22] routine of the kids crossing the streets in the morning off of Pojo at 6:50 6:45

[1:49:27] in the morning when it's time you can't see them so extra flashlight making sure

[1:49:34] those kids cross

[1:49:38] » I think you were mentioning that early morning

[1:49:50] » let us get our heads together with something else here. But again, we can

[1:49:57] » I don't know that this is a better route either.

[1:49:59] » Well, because of all the traffic, I mean, this is two times a day. This is

[1:50:04] not draw. >> Yeah. And all you're going to do is, you

[1:50:09] know, exacerbate the problem more traffic down to it. Right. And so, I

[1:50:15] understand what your neighbor's concerns are, right? I do. I just don't know.

[1:50:20] » Right. So the other that is the other option is

[1:50:24] » six, right? >> It's an option.

[1:50:33] » I don't know how many of you ever driven an 18wheeler, but I have. And I would

[1:50:38] not want to drive through a residential neighborhood unless I absolutely had to.

[1:50:44] » I would take Pojo >> unless they built it

[1:50:47] » because it's built wide enough. good solid road. And that's to me that's

[1:50:54] the only the only one that we we have presently

[1:51:00] that could handle trucks if we wanted to get them off the square. So there's

[1:51:04] nothing further south than a truck used to go up there.

[1:51:10] » And it goes back to what I said earlier. No matter what you do with the third

[1:51:16] plan, you're not going to make everybody because if we move it up here, all these

[1:51:23] people move it down here, all these people. So, I don't know what the

[1:51:29] answers do and Christina and I, we'll put our heads together and see what what

[1:51:34] it may be. Just keep in mind when you're working on masterfair plans, if it's a

[1:51:39] new section of road that's going through a development, that'll be the

[1:51:41] developer's responsibility to build that comes out of that development, it

[1:51:45] becomes the city's responsibility, right? So, we would be the ones having

[1:51:50] duty to improve Third Street, which I would

[1:51:52] » I would not want to dump any more traffic on Third Street as long as SCES

[1:51:57] exits there, right? >> And how many how many hours have we

[1:52:00] spent school district trying to find a way to expand that roadway to handle

[1:52:04] more traffic? >> So, it's But I don't The answer is,

[1:52:08] David, I don't know the answer. That's the answer. I don't know. I don't know

[1:52:12] the answer. Whereas

[1:52:15] thoroughare >> there's always

[1:52:18] the last thoroughare plan that was done prior what I commonly refer to as media

[1:52:23] which is before David 2012 >> 2011 I think it was

[1:52:29] » 2016 >> so making people upset this was a

[1:52:34] planned route >> it has been a plan the only new portion

[1:52:38] of this route develop correct me if I'm wrong is this section here

[1:52:42] » that's in this.

[1:52:44] » No, that's actually in the current. >> Oh, it's in the plan, but it's not a

[1:52:48] road. >> It would be new construction, but it's

[1:52:50] been planned for >> and this this is this is the part of the

[1:52:55] new plan. >> Yes.

[1:52:56] » Right. So, take it all the way through the project.

[1:52:59] » Everything else exists. >> So,

[1:53:02] this is not going to be done unless a developer does it.

[1:53:05] » That's correct. Is that what I'm hearing?

[1:53:07] Unless unless it gets to the point that the city has to relieve traffic

[1:53:11] someplace, then we have to go in and and build the road.

[1:53:15] » Okay. >> What would I can't think of anything

[1:53:17] that would cause traffic to become so much greater in town that we would have

[1:53:22] to do this because >> the only places the town's going to this

[1:53:25] could grow in which case they'll be on that road. This could grow. They'll be

[1:53:29] over here. >> This is not going to grow. This is

[1:53:32] already built out >> to go to schools. So what happens here

[1:53:36] is is there's 32 acres sitting there >> if it becomes a subdivision

[1:53:40] » then the sub then that person's responsible

[1:53:42] » is responsible for completing or if it becomes some other use that requires

[1:53:46] that roadway to be completed then it would be that developers responsible

[1:53:51] » but in which if that doesn't if that's not developed the city's not going to do

[1:53:55] it >> and nothing would force us to you said

[1:53:58] if it if traffic came so bad that we had to build it but what could possibly

[1:54:02] happen would make The likelihood is I always preface with you know anything

[1:54:07] could happen. The likelihood of the city having to complete that section of

[1:54:12] roadway given our current growth patterns is highly unlikely.

[1:54:19] » I just can't see where where there would be enough

[1:54:23] growth that would force that to [snorts] >> if it continues on the current plan

[1:54:29] then

[1:54:32] is this actually in the city

[1:54:38] » to the east. So this should not be >> we have spring but we don't have we're

[1:54:44] not yeah this is not even >> yeah none of that east

[1:54:48] » so there's slight slivers of those and I think I think he probably se

[1:55:01] » if this were realized there are multiple parcels here that would have to be

[1:55:04] acquired by the city >> for that

[1:55:08] » required by developer

[1:55:11] So, we wouldn't build that either. It would be a developer.

[1:55:15] » This section's built. >> This section's built.

[1:55:22] » We didn't build either one of those sections.

[1:55:25] » That's kind of marshy right there. >> But getting it there, getting it from

[1:55:32] from here to there or to there will not be our responsibility. will be the

[1:55:37] developer responsibility, right?

[1:55:45] » So this is

[1:55:53] » this is this right here.

[1:55:59] » So if this say a developer did build here

[1:56:02] » and put in that road and this doesn't this

[1:56:07] because of the challenges. Who's going to cut through to get to this street?

[1:56:12] » Very few people.

[1:56:17] » Those people. >> The flip side is if you don't have it on

[1:56:20] the map, the developer came through, >> right?

[1:56:26] » So leaving it there is advantageous really.

[1:56:32] But this eventuality is not like >> and also We go through the process of

[1:56:38] the plan in its entirety. One of the things that we're looking at our impact

[1:56:42] we assess water impact do not currently assess street impact something we've

[1:56:48] discussed for a long time just as with the water wastewater impact. We have

[1:56:55] water and wastewater is not on that plan. You cannot use impact fees to fund

[1:57:01] any improvements to it or to make up between what a developer might

[1:57:07] contribute and what the city might participate in. There's a there's a lot

[1:57:10] of benefits to having it on the plan versus not things that can be done by

[1:57:16] having it on the plan versus the harm of not having it on of having it on the

[1:57:22] plan. If you get the street impact fees, it

[1:57:25] even narrows down a little bit capacity building projects. And so some of these

[1:57:30] we're talking about there's a lot of that engineers have to

[1:57:35] do that. I'm not engineer, but comparing like how what that traffic does if for

[1:57:40] proposed development and if it's going to be a capacity building project.

[1:57:44] having more options.

[1:57:49] Okay.

[1:57:52] So, anybody interested in moving to item number three, discussion related to

[1:57:56] proposed town hall number two that >> we kind

[1:58:05] further business to discuss?

[1:58:09] » Okay. We will do we need to formally we don't need to formally do this

[1:58:17] out.

[1:58:21] » Okay. >> 8:27 p.m. Thank you for your

[1:58:24] participation. >> I appreciate y'all. That was a really

[1:58:26] good discussion.

Comprehensive Plan Advisory Committee - Aug 18 2026

Transcript