[0:44] Yeah.

[0:56] It's 5:00 p. am and we're at the Canyon

[0:58] Community Center for the June 3rd

[1:00] meeting of the Springdale Planning

[1:02] Commission. From the T town, we have Tom

[1:05] Dancy, Nile Connelly, and April Ratitz.

[1:08] On the dis we have Matt Frink, Zion

[1:11] National Park representative, Terry

[1:13] Krishki, myself, Jennifer McCulla, Paul

[1:16] Zimmerman, Koshbati, and Melissa Labour,

[1:20] Rich Swanson, and Tom Kinston are not

[1:23] able to make it tonight. Melissa and

[1:26] Kosh, I'd like to ask you to vote. Thank

[1:29] you. And is there a motion to approve

[1:32] tonight's agenda?

[1:34] >> I move we approve tonight's agenda.

[1:37] >> Second.

[1:38] >> Motion by Paul. Second by Terry. All in

[1:41] favor?

[1:42] >> Terry I.

[1:43] >> Jennifer I.

[1:44] >> Paul I.

[1:45] >> Tash I.

[1:45] >> Melissa I.

[1:46] >> Motion passes. Are there any general

[1:49] announcements?

[1:54] No announcements tonight. Any

[1:56] declarations of conflict of interest.

[2:01] Okay. For tonight's agenda, we have one

[2:04] action item, which is a public hearing.

[2:08] Mr. Luke Wilson requests design

[2:10] development review for the approval of

[2:13] an expansion to the parking lot at 50

[2:15] Zion Park Boulevard. The staff contact

[2:18] is Nyall Connelly. We will follow public

[2:21] meeting rules of order and procedures.

[2:24] Please be sure to have signed into the

[2:26] meeting on the form in the back if you

[2:28] intend to speak. And please keep in mind

[2:31] that each public comment is limited to

[2:33] three minutes. And we will start with an

[2:36] intro from Nyall.

[2:38] >> Thank you.

[2:40] So as you indicated, uh we have a public

[2:43] hearing. This item is a public hearing.

[2:46] Um Mr. Luke Wilson has applied for

[2:48] design development review uh for an

[2:51] expansion to his parking lot at 50 Zion

[2:54] Park Boulevard. Uh this is a

[2:56] retrospective application uh meaning

[2:59] that the spaces have already been con

[3:01] constructed and uh Mr. Wilson wishes to

[3:04] come into compliance now with the town's

[3:07] ordinances.

[3:08] Um the expansion involves 15 additional

[3:13] spaces

[3:15] um kind of as indicated there. Um

[3:19] it also includes a landscape seating

[3:21] area which is described on the plans as

[3:25] a public lounge and landscape area.

[3:29] Um the parking lot was originally

[3:33] developed in 2016 and in that in the

[3:37] time between then and now the town's

[3:40] standards on parking lots have changed.

[3:42] So there are some new standards that the

[3:45] applicant needs to comply with. Um so

[3:49] those include

[3:50] um integration with a commercial use. Um

[3:55] there's some specific landscape

[3:57] requirements that that apply. Um there's

[4:01] also trash and recycling facilities

[4:04] required and also restrooms. Um so the

[4:08] commission should review the proposal to

[4:12] uh make a determination on whether those

[4:14] points have been um met or not. Um

[4:20] the applicant proposes a a food truck or

[4:23] coffee truck to satisfy the commercial

[4:25] requirement. Um and there's some

[4:28] discussion on the the other points

[4:30] within the staff report as well. Um I'd

[4:34] be happy to answer any questions from

[4:36] the commission.

[4:38] >> Um I believe in following um order of

[4:42] public hearing um first if there's a

[4:44] presentation from the applicant.

[4:48] Would you like to Yeah, sure.

[4:51] >> Yes. Yes.

[4:52] >> And thank you for being here. I realize

[4:54] this is not a normal meeting. So I'm

[4:56] Luke Wilson. Um

[5:00] I bought that parking lot about a year

[5:02] ago from Janet Micah. Everybody knows

[5:04] about about the parking lot already. Um,

[5:07] when I bought it, I bought and I'm not

[5:09] going to try to make a long story, but I bought the two homes across from my

[5:12] other parking lot as well at the same

[5:14] time. The two little homes across from

[5:16] my coffee shop just down the road. And I

[5:19] graded and cleaned up the property

[5:21] there, built rock walls and landscaped

[5:23] it and fixed up those little homes. You

[5:24] might know which ones I mean on the

[5:25] corner of Hummingbird. And then I jumped

[5:27] to this property. I did the same thing.

[5:29] I graded and cleaned this up and I I

[5:30] stayed outside of the 30%

[5:33] Um, as I started doing and it and when I

[5:35] was doing the homes, I was everyone was

[5:37] thanking me and and I and so I didn't

[5:40] think that um this would be as delicate

[5:43] as it was. As I was grading this, Tom

[5:45] kept and he said, "Hey, hey, hey, hey,

[5:46] wait, wait, wait. You don't have this is

[5:49] delicate." And so we he stopped me. We

[5:52] stopped right then. he had me get about

[5:55] uh you know engineering to the nth

[5:57] degree about where the slope was the 30%

[5:59] grading and put up a fence and all of

[6:01] that's appropriate and I totally

[6:02] understand why. So I have a grading

[6:04] permit. I followed it to the inch uh

[6:06] that's been approved. Um I built a rock

[6:09] wall around it and um

[6:13] added those spaces. I didn't know about

[6:15] the new rule with the bathroom and the

[6:17] recycling and the business. I have the

[6:19] other parking lot and I I I didn't know

[6:22] about that rule at the time that I did

[6:24] this. So, in my mind, it was it was out

[6:27] of the 30% grading. It was um I had a

[6:31] legal permit to grade. I I did talk to

[6:33] Tom to be quite candid about doing more

[6:35] landscaping in the back than I did. I

[6:37] didn't think I could fit those spots. I

[6:38] thought I'd get three or four or five,

[6:39] but it seemed like it worked to put them

[6:41] up. And I I paved higher than I talked

[6:43] to him about. And then then he he called

[6:45] and said, "You know, this is this needs

[6:48] attention." So then, so then for the

[6:49] last few months, we've been kind of

[6:50] trying to get on the on the schedule

[6:52] here. Um, I have no intention of not

[6:55] complying. As I understand, the three

[6:58] things that that come to mind here are

[7:00] the head-to-head parking.

[7:02] In my mind, that isn't head-to-head

[7:05] parking because there's about an 8ft

[7:07] vertical difference between the lower

[7:08] and the upper level, but we can call it

[7:10] head-to-head parking.

[7:12] um planters on the ends of any rows of

[7:14] parking,

[7:16] uh the bathroom, and then the uh the

[7:18] commercial use. Um

[7:22] not trying to rat out anyone, but across

[7:26] the street 100 yards, there's

[7:28] head-to-head parking in their entire

[7:29] parking lot. As I understand, that rule

[7:31] came about in '08. I looked up the code.

[7:35] That parking lot was added 41 stalls in

[7:38] 2019 or 2020 per the geo per per the

[7:42] county website that I could see as is on

[7:45] the high resolution map. I don't have

[7:47] any problem with it. I it's it's a very

[7:49] good parking lots well used, but I know

[7:51] they have head-to-head parking the

[7:52] entire thing. Um there's countless

[7:55] parking lots in town that don't have

[7:56] planters on the ends, including right

[7:58] here. And and I'm not again trying to

[8:00] like throw that out. I'm not saying I

[8:02] don't want to comply. I'm happy to

[8:03] comply, but I see these little things

[8:05] all over and and I could give you many

[8:08] other examples in town of of this. U I

[8:10] think those are easy things to deal

[8:12] with. The landscaping, the head-to-head

[8:14] parking, there's solutions to both of

[8:16] those. Um I had I had talked about the

[8:21] bathroom. Uh I didn't actually know

[8:23] there was no sewer. The town doesn't

[8:24] have sewer in the road there.

[8:27] It's about 550 ft away in front of

[8:29] subway and 8 feet higher than I am. And

[8:33] that's probably why there's no sewer

[8:34] because it's it's too high for for me to

[8:38] use it. If you include the 12 12 and a

[8:40] half ft of fall that it would take over

[8:42] 500 feet to make it legal sewer use,

[8:43] it's like 22 feet of difference there.

[8:45] It it wouldn't work. You'd have to go

[8:46] through the landside, whatever. So, I

[8:49] have no issue doing any other thing uh

[8:51] like a septic system or a sealed tank or

[8:54] a self-contained bathroom that's

[8:56] screened so no one can see it like they

[8:57] use in the park. Um I don't have any

[8:59] problem with any of those, but I I

[9:01] realized that until there is sewer in

[9:03] the road, I can't just

[9:05] build a bathroom and have because

[9:06] there's no sewer. So, in my mind and

[9:09] after talking to a few council members

[9:11] about the sensitivity of sewer or

[9:14] including a septic field in that

[9:18] property, um it seemed the the most

[9:21] logical to do kind of an upscale

[9:22] self-contained unit. They're expensive

[9:24] because you have to service them every

[9:25] week and you have to have them cleaned

[9:27] and you have to have them stocked and

[9:28] you have to you have to build a screen

[9:30] around it and stuff. It's not ideal, but

[9:31] it it does meet the requirement as I

[9:34] read the code. And then lastly, um, a

[9:38] sewerless business, the businesses that

[9:40] I could think of that would I feel like

[9:42] work, um, would be either, uh, there's

[9:45] no power there either, but ebikes,

[9:48] um, or coffee. Everybody at my other

[9:51] coffee shop is out the door, 20 people

[9:53] deep. Everybody's trying to get their

[9:54] coffee. And I thought surely enough

[9:56] people would want some coffee that that a mobile, like an upscale nice

[9:59] mobile coffee business there would work.

[10:01] Again, no sewer. I can't hook into

[10:03] anything. So, I'm trying to to provide

[10:06] what isn't being provided

[10:09] and still try to meet the ordinance. And

[10:11] as I read the ordinance, I think both of

[10:12] those things comply. Um, future

[10:15] business, I would like to do some

[10:16] ebikes. I've spoken with Kyla and Tai

[10:18] Topam often about the nuances of ebikes

[10:21] traveling through town at high speeds,

[10:22] not stopping at the crosswalks,

[10:24] whatever. I think this is a great

[10:25] location because it's right at the

[10:26] entrance of the park that doesn't need

[10:28] sewer either. and if I could I could do

[10:31] something at the back of the parking lot

[10:32] with a shade structure like my other

[10:33] ebike business and have some bikes there

[10:35] as well. But I have not proposed that on

[10:36] this one for this for this meeting and

[10:38] for this season which is now underway.

[10:41] Um

[10:43] I I think those things that I've

[10:44] mentioned meet the ordinance. And so I I

[10:48] would also like to point out a couple of

[10:49] things that I did. I I I'm not trying to

[10:53] cause an issue in in in in cleaning up

[10:56] this parking lot and and adding the

[10:58] spaces in the back. I put in 2,000

[11:01] square feet of sidewalk for the town, uh

[11:04] 400 lineal feet, 5t wide, a bridge over

[11:07] the uh historic headgate that wasn't to

[11:09] be touched or deconstructed. I

[11:10] landscaped the planters off the SR9. I

[11:14] don't need water on my parking lot, but

[11:15] I pay for it because there's those

[11:17] planters and I water them. And I pay the

[11:18] bill to water those planters. I don't

[11:20] know. I think that's my job. I'm not

[11:21] sure, but I like how they look, so we do

[11:23] that. Um, I'm trying to create a public

[11:25] lounge above the very top right where

[11:29] people can sit down, have lunch. I would

[11:32] bolt down some aderondac chairs there.

[11:34] Um, have some little tables and things

[11:36] so they can't be blown around in the

[11:37] wind. Put a safety railing up there. The

[11:40] view is beautiful from there. And I feel

[11:41] like they're they're currently on that

[11:43] parking lot is nowhere for a family to

[11:44] like sit down and eat their lunch or

[11:46] their sandwich or or whatever. And I

[11:48] thought that would be kind of a nice

[11:49] thing that that they could do is maybe

[11:51] as they're waiting to meet their friends

[11:53] or whatever. So that's where it went.

[11:56] That's how I got where I am today. And

[11:58] um I understand the Nile sent me the

[12:02] email that shows the things that have

[12:03] been added to the code that I don't

[12:04] meet. And so I'm trying to meet them and

[12:06] not trying to not be compliant. So does

[12:08] anybody have any questions for me?

[12:10] Yeah. So, at this time, planning

[12:12] commission can ask questions to the

[12:13] staff or the applicant.

[12:19] » Um, I'll start with a question.

[12:22] Something that didn't come up in this

[12:24] report and perhaps hasn't been mentioned

[12:27] to you. Um, there is an ordinance 10237.

[12:33] Acute angle parking shall be designed

[12:36] for one-way traffic only.

[12:38] So you have some acute angle parking at

[12:41] the top that is not set up for one-way

[12:45] traffic.

[12:47] >> Um

[12:48] so uh

[12:51] would would you be I I mean what would

[12:54] you think in terms of having to redesign

[12:57] that in some way either? I

[12:59] >> I would be happy to and and I'm I I I

[13:01] read that as well. Um I'd be happy to.

[13:05] That was me with a tape measure and my

[13:07] painter and just this fits, this works,

[13:09] whatever. I'm sure I could probably

[13:10] reconfigure that to where it's not. Is

[13:12] that a cute angle? Is that where they're

[13:14] twisted? The top.

[13:15] >> That's Yeah, that's where they're not

[13:16] 90°.

[13:17] >> Yeah, I could.

[13:18] >> So, you got four or five spaces there.

[13:20] >> And I'm sure from from what I can see is

[13:22] I could carry the 90° spaces a little

[13:24] farther and maybe just stop at the acute

[13:26] angle ones at the top or turn those 90

[13:28] degrees and have them go the other way.

[13:29] You know what I mean?

[13:30] >> Facing up the hill,

[13:32] >> right? But but yeah, I'm not

[13:34] >> there multiple options, but I think that

[13:36] would be one of the requirements we had

[13:38] which didn't come up in the

[13:40] >> Yeah, and I and as I as when NA pointed

[13:43] out some of the codes, I really dug into

[13:45] those codes and I actually read that.

[13:46] So, but I had already painted it. So,

[13:49] anyway,

[13:51] >> do you have the ability to to

[13:54] continue the drive space out through I

[13:56] mean, obviously it would impact the

[13:58] public lounge area, but you know, can it

[14:00] go I don't know what the grade's like

[14:01] right there. I could easily I mean the

[14:03] grades might maybe 10 degrees and I

[14:05] could probably circulate it back down

[14:07] around. I think the town wouldn't like

[14:08] that. It's a lot of it's a lot of

[14:09] excavation and stuff and I and it would

[14:11] do away with the public lounge area.

[14:13] Really to me the only the only problem

[14:15] is that um you know I I think the

[14:18] easiest solution would be to say make

[14:19] those spaces work

[14:22] flip the angle on them or whatever or or again maybe two of them this way.

[14:29] You know I don't know if that makes

[14:30] sense.

[14:31] >> I would just lose some spaces.

[14:34] >> They could I believe

[14:35] >> I would rather I would rather do that

[14:36] than make a mess.

[14:39] >> It could be reconfigured.

[14:41] >> Yeah. Like you say, you might lose a

[14:42] space or two in the process.

[14:44] >> Yeah, I can do compact spaces there

[14:46] actually and get 90 degrees.

[14:48] >> I can do compact car only spaces and

[14:50] there's plent most of the cars that park

[14:52] there are compact. I even thought at the

[14:54] bottom putting compact only beyond this

[14:56] point, you know, to where it's easier to

[14:57] turn around for them. Yeah.

[15:03] » Yeah. Um, and just, you know, especially

[15:06] those angled ones would have to back

[15:07] quite a ways back down to get to be able

[15:10] to go forward again. So, it would be

[15:11] good to have them be able to,

[15:13] >> you know, right there and not

[15:16] >> another solution, not not to like talk

[15:18] through this too much. I could just do

[15:21] parallel.

[15:22] >> Do you know what I mean? Like they have

[15:24] at the entrance of the park

[15:25] >> where it's not 45, it's actually

[15:29] use

[15:33] Street parking would be.

[15:33] >> Yeah, like street parking. That would

[15:35] >> Yeah, there's lots of ways that I

[15:36] >> There's options. Yeah.

[15:36] >> Yeah.

[15:39] >> I have a question um probably for the

[15:41] staff and um for you. Um is my

[15:46] understanding is is renting out the

[15:49] space to a coffee van or is it in

[15:52] associated with your coffee business at

[15:53] all or your plan is to rent the space

[15:57] for some to someone else?

[15:59] >> Yes, I would be I would be

[16:03] owning that.

[16:05] >> Okay. So, there would be a business

[16:08] there, but it's not your

[16:10] >> It is mine.

[16:11] >> Oh, okay.

[16:12] >> Yeah. I Yeah, I have an operator for it.

[16:15] It's somebody that's worked one of my

[16:16] other coffee stations that would run it

[16:18] and I would just set up

[16:20] >> Okay.

[16:20] >> I don't know if you guys have seen like

[16:21] in Hurricane Grit and Grind coffee. It's

[16:24] nice black trailer. Everybody loves

[16:25] their coffee. Something really clean

[16:26] that looks nice like that. methods and I

[16:29] would actually probably pay for about 30

[16:31] grand I can pop power under the road

[16:32] there's a big transformer across the

[16:34] street so there's not a generator

[16:35] required or anything you know so there's

[16:38] power there's no sewer but there is

[16:39] power that they could operate quietly

[16:42] >> okay thank you I was asking um in terms

[16:45] of stability of a business staying is

[16:47] what I was asking

[16:48] >> yeah

[16:50] um to to leak a little bit um Tom and

[16:54] Nile heard me say this in a couple of

[16:56] meetings that we had

[16:58] I don't want a trailer there. I would

[17:00] rather have a nice well-designed

[17:03] small kiosk, maybe two stalls like my

[17:07] other coffee shop. It's that only takes

[17:08] two or three stalls and it does very

[17:10] well

[17:11] for the season for now. For what we're

[17:13] up against right now, I don't want to

[17:16] slap something architecturally together

[17:18] and stick it up there. I thought if we

[17:20] had a nice mobile coffee business for

[17:22] now, that would work. And then in the

[17:23] offseason, I plan to do more. I just

[17:25] don't have it well thought out.

[17:28] I have to hunt down a guy named Bert

[17:30] Cartwright to help me with that and he's

[17:32] unavailable right now. So,

[17:35] >> but yeah, my long-term plan wouldn't be

[17:37] to even keep that, but I would own it.

[17:39] Yeah.

[17:43] » Come back another time for that. Yeah,

[17:45] >> sure.

[17:49] How high you mentioned uh the the

[17:52] head-to-head parking wall, so to speak.

[17:55] >> It fades. It goes from like four feet to

[17:57] about nine.

[17:59] >> Okay.

[18:00] >> At the on the high side, it's about

[18:01] nine. And on the low side, it's about

[18:02] four.

[18:07] And And

[18:08] >> then you're going to have a 42 inch

[18:09] guard rail above that.

[18:10] >> Yeah. 42inch guardrail.

[18:13] Yep.

[18:16] And again, if we if need be, I could

[18:18] flip the spaces to the back. I don't

[18:20] like that as well, backing up towards a

[18:22] railing and the and the wall. It's not

[18:24] really a safety issue, but I just think

[18:26] it's better as it is, but if need be,

[18:29] uh, even in Nell's report, it says they

[18:30] could be flipped to accommodate a mo

[18:32] strip. However, it wouldn't need a mo

[18:33] strip because it would no longer be

[18:35] headto head. Do you know what I mean? I

[18:36] would just flip them to the back.

[18:39] Uh, in the end, the town gets the same

[18:41] thing. There are cars parked there.

[18:44] If they allow me to consider that wall,

[18:46] and the code doesn't read horizontally

[18:47] or vertically, but if they allow me to

[18:49] green up that wall, like a green green

[18:51] wall that's watered well with hanging

[18:52] vines and plants and something pretty,

[18:54] you're not going to be able to tell if

[18:55] the cars are on the front or the back,

[18:56] but from the town's pers perspective, if

[18:58] they allow it to stay as it is, that

[19:00] wall would be very pretty, I think. You

[19:02] know what I mean?

[19:08] But I think either way that that that

[19:09] issue can go away

[19:12] one way or the other.

[19:14] So, on the drawing in your proposal, um

[19:18] there's a small um area in the middle

[19:22] that looks like it's uh going to be

[19:24] landscaped.

[19:26] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[19:29] On the bottom.

[19:32] Yes. That

[19:33] >> right right up there in that little

[19:34] circle right above the pointer.

[19:36] >> Yes. 80 square feet minimum. Two three

[19:38] plants, one tree.

[19:41] >> That would be one end.

[19:42] >> Uhhuh. one end of the additional space

[19:45] up at the top. There's that whole lounge

[19:47] area would be

[19:48] >> would be the other end.

[19:49] >> Yeah, would be the other end.

[19:58] And I didn't finish that because we kind

[20:01] of got to the point where they said,

[20:03] "Hey, stop. We need to we need to work."

[20:06] >> I think it's better to

[20:06] >> So I don't even think I finished my rock

[20:09] wall at the very top. I haven't clear.

[20:11] Anyway,

[20:13] yeah.

[20:22] Are there other questions from the

[20:23] planning commission to either Mr. Wilson

[20:26] or the staff

[20:36] and I think you mentioned about the

[20:38] drainage,

[20:40] correct? Can Yeah.

[20:47] » Okay. At this time, um, is there a

[20:50] motion to open public hearing?

[20:52] >> Move that we open the public hearing.

[20:56] >> Second.

[20:57] >> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in

[20:59] favor?

[21:00] >> Terry? I.

[21:01] >> Jennifer I.

[21:02] >> Paul. I. Hash.

[21:03] >> I. I.

[21:05] >> Motion passes.

[21:07] Uh, is there any public comments at this

[21:09] time?

[21:17] Hi, guilt keepfir

[21:20] um wasn't sure quite how to approach

[21:23] this but um

[21:26] I also am building already have built a

[21:30] parking lot and I want to uh get

[21:33] approval tonight for putting ebikes in a

[21:36] coffee shop on it. So, if you can also

[21:39] consider that with uh tonight's agenda.

[21:43] Um I'm kidding, but

[21:46] that's where we're at here. Um the the

[21:52] parking lot, as I understand it, is has

[21:55] grown without a permit to even start on

[21:59] the project. Um were the retaining walls

[22:03] even engineered

[22:05] uh and approved? Um he now uh Luke now

[22:10] wants to put coffee in ebikes on an

[22:13] expanded um park in a parking lot. Um

[22:18] that's kind of how his last project

[22:21] went.

[22:24] Um the parking lot

[22:26] um started uh the one with Canyon

[22:30] Coffee. I don't know how long you've

[22:31] been on the board, but Rick Rio about

[22:35] seven years ago was on the board and he

[22:38] was constantly complaining to me about

[22:40] how this whole parking lot um across

[22:44] from

[22:45] uh well it it's the Canyon Coffee basic

[22:50] um u location at this point.

[22:54] And basically Luke applied for uh

[22:57] putting a parking lot in there. He built

[22:59] the parking lot, said then, and this is

[23:02] all hearsay, so I I'm sure I will be corrected. Then he applied to

[23:08] have a kiosk put in. The kiosk then

[23:11] turned into a coffee shop. And while

[23:13] you're selling coffee, you might as well

[23:15] sell some t-shirts. Okay. So now, if you

[23:18] got that much inventory that needs to be

[23:21] stored, you need to build a little shed

[23:23] on the back of the property. that

[23:25] property now or that part that little

[23:27] shed now has turned into an ebike rental

[23:31] uh location. So then on the front of the

[23:34] property, he then thought, well, I need

[23:37] to serve some food.

[23:39] Now, the parking lot that he originally

[23:42] uh wanted to build is about a half the

[23:46] size of the original parking lot, which

[23:49] we actually need in town, but now it's

[23:51] about half that size. and the building

[23:53] that he put on that on that lot or it it

[23:57] it's closer than what's normally

[24:00] allowed. He needed a variance to get um

[24:05] that building built because it's too

[24:07] close to the road. So, this is it's it's

[24:11] all following a very familiar pl uh

[24:14] plan. Um so, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm

[24:18] nervous. I don't like talking bad about

[24:21] people, but this is um this is the way

[24:26] uh Luke Wilson does business. He will uh

[24:30] do something that is not appropriate and

[24:33] then continue to push until somebody finally stops him. When is this

[24:38] going to stop? Thank you.

[24:42] >> Thank you. Are there any other comments

[24:45] from

[24:46] >> Yeah, just a moment. Yeah.

[24:49] Um, we'll just make sure that there's no

[24:51] other public comments before we close uh

[24:54] public hearing.

[24:56] And so if that's the end of

[24:58] >> I move to close the public hearing.

[25:00] >> Second.

[25:01] >> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in

[25:04] favor?

[25:05] >> I.

[25:05] >> Jennifer I.

[25:06] >> All I.

[25:10] » Motion passes. And at this time the

[25:13] applicant can respond.

[25:16] Thank you.

[25:17] >> Yeah. Luke Wilson, I appreciate you

[25:19] being open and honest about how you feel

[25:21] about it. Um,

[25:23] uh, to be very candid, I would love it

[25:25] if, uh, I didn't have to put a I don't

[25:28] want to put anything on this. I don't

[25:31] want to put any businesses on this. I

[25:33] told that to Tom and Nile. I'm trying to

[25:35] meet their requirements. I think the

[25:37] town um, I was urged um, when I built my

[25:41] other parking lot, I was urged to put

[25:43] something that screened the parking in

[25:45] front of it. I don't think anybody likes

[25:46] to stare at big black parking lots and

[25:48] so having something in the front that

[25:51] but but yeah all of that was approved it

[25:53] was legal. It was applied for and I know

[25:55] there's a lot of hearsay but you know I

[25:57] could ask u you know you mentioned about

[26:00] the wall if it's engineered I mean you

[26:03] could ask Tom is there a Rosenberg

[26:05] letter that talked about all of that the

[26:07] inspection and the height and everything

[26:08] of that wall and the grading permit?

[26:10] Yeah that's legal. Um, is the grading

[26:13] per design?

[26:16] >> Yeah, the grading permit was approved.

[26:18] >> Yeah, I even paid a fine for it just because it it seemed like it was

[26:24] while it was being sorted out a little

[26:26] aggressive and I agreed to pay a fine

[26:27] for it, but the engineers have said

[26:29] everything there is per per code, per

[26:31] everything. So, I I I don't mind at all

[26:35] being called out on any of it. Candidly,

[26:38] I don't want to put a bathroom or a

[26:39] business or anything on the parking lot.

[26:42] parking lots are a lot easier to operate

[26:44] than coffee businesses. So, um I do feel

[26:48] like they're a nice addition to I think

[26:50] the the code I didn't come up with it,

[26:53] but the code prescribes a complimentary

[26:55] business to the use which is a parking

[26:57] lot and I think people would appreciate

[26:59] coffee or ebikes or whatever it is. But

[27:02] if any of that's bad or illegal, you

[27:04] know, no one ever said that to me. But I

[27:06] did approve and and go through all of

[27:07] the motions to get all of those other

[27:09] buildings and businesses approved over

[27:11] many years on the other location as

[27:12] well. So setbacks, heights, everything.

[27:15] So anyway, if anybody has any questions

[27:17] about it, I'd be happy to talk, but I

[27:20] would preferably not have to do any of

[27:22] this, but uh I I will to meet the code

[27:25] to become compliant.

[27:27] >> Thank you. U planning commission may go

[27:30] into deliberation.

[27:40] start here. Um, so there's several things I think that need

[27:46] to be modified for this plan to meet the

[27:49] code. Um, there's the acute angle

[27:53] parking spaces. Um, there's the, uh,

[27:58] there's the landscaping. Um, I'd like to

[28:01] see a little we'd like to see a little

[28:03] more detail and some numbers on um the

[28:06] fact that the landscaping um meets the

[28:10] requirements. Um, and given the angles

[28:14] and positions of the parking lot, maybe

[28:17] positioning might be a little bit adjust

[28:20] from my perspective might be able to be

[28:22] adjusted, but I would still like to see

[28:24] that uh in part because of um, you know,

[28:28] 10239B,

[28:30] which talks about um um, heat islands.

[28:35] And if you look at this, all of the

[28:37] asphalt is sort of all around and

[28:41] planting is around the outside. There's

[28:43] a very small space in the middle. So,

[28:46] I'm a little concerned about whether

[28:47] this really meets the heat islands

[28:49] issue. Um,

[28:52] and then as the as the uh as the um um

[28:58] writeup indicated, there's uh

[29:00] landscaping at the end of both aisles

[29:03] and then the 4 foot wide, it does say 4

[29:05] foot wide space between. Um, on the

[29:09] other hand, I have been up and looked at

[29:11] the parking lot and I and I agree with

[29:13] the applicant that there's a significant

[29:14] vertical difference. Um, so my personal

[29:19] feeling is that

[29:21] we might be able to say there's a

[29:22] certain flexibility in where that

[29:24] landscaping goes. Um, but there should

[29:27] be landscaping to deal with, you know,

[29:31] to reduce the heat island effect and to

[29:33] have some additional green that area.

[29:37] Um and then um and then of course

[29:41] there's the restroom and the the trash

[29:43] and recycling.

[29:48] So I'm a little of a mind to um deny and

[29:54] request that the applicant come back

[29:56] with a more detailed plan that takes

[29:58] care of these things and we can see it

[30:00] in the drawing. But I'll open up to

[30:02] other thoughts on that.

[30:09] So the modified plans that you would be

[30:11] referring to would be repainting the

[30:15] lines and

[30:16] >> Yeah. So that would be a a redesign of

[30:20] the acute angle parking. Um, it would

[30:23] also include more information

[30:26] about the landscaping and the amount of

[30:29] square footage landscaping and and an

[30:31] indication of of that the required

[30:34] amount of landscaping has been placed

[30:36] even if it's slightly out of, you know,

[30:39] not necessarily in exactly the position

[30:41] required by the ordinances.

[30:44] Um, and then an indication of where the

[30:47] recycling and trash are going to go. um

[30:49] and maybe a little more information

[30:51] about the restroom um that would be

[30:55] placed so that we can understand you

[30:57] know is it a big blue port of body or is

[31:00] it you know I'm assuming it's not I'm

[31:01] assuming it'll be some of the

[31:03] >> screen

[31:04] >> yeah you know and so a little

[31:06] information about the screening so to me

[31:09] I would like to see more information to

[31:11] do approval

[31:13] >> yeah I think that's a reasonable thing

[31:15] to do I had a question also and you know

[31:18] there's there's a photo at the top of

[31:20] the staff report and then there's this

[31:23] diagram that show where the mobile

[31:26] business is going to go. Um they're

[31:28] different. This one looks larger than

[31:30] the other. The the photo is a much

[31:32] smaller space. It appears to be because

[31:34] the striping uh comes to an acute point

[31:37] at the end as opposed to the separation

[31:38] there. So my question is is there room

[31:41] enough in that location for a coffee

[31:45] business? Um and so that's that I think

[31:49] you know you could

[31:50] >> we could add to that list. Um the other consideration is that um if

[31:58] you have a mobile business there or or a

[32:01] permanent business down the road, the

[32:03] mobile business requires two dedicated

[32:05] parking spaces that would not be

[32:06] rentable for for daily parking or

[32:09] whatever. And so that would have to be I

[32:11] would want to see that mapped off or how

[32:13] you're going to handle that. Um I think

[32:16] you one of the questions I had was um

[32:20] you know if if if it were our decision

[32:24] to allow a mobile business there given

[32:26] that the mobile business is limited

[32:28] three hours of operation on a day on a

[32:31] daily basis. Um that introduces some

[32:34] interesting questions. But the other the

[32:37] other question I had was if if you had

[32:40] to take the time or go through the

[32:43] process of uh acquiring a tenant to

[32:46] operate that business. Um does the town

[32:49] allow the operation of the parking lot

[32:52] in the absence of an operating business

[32:54] on that lot? But if the intent is that

[32:56] that's a

[32:58] you know you you own the business um

[33:00] maybe that's less of a consideration but

[33:03] something that we need to think address

[33:06] as well

[33:11] on the topic of the head-to-head parking

[33:13] is there any anything defining about

[33:18] what that entails because then I went

[33:21] and looked at it too and I wouldn't have

[33:24] considered that head-to-head parking

[33:26] because of the the distance and height.

[33:30] So,

[33:32] >> I don't know is could it possibly not

[33:34] even be defined as head-to-head parking?

[33:37] >> Well, yeah. You wonder, you know, it's

[33:39] head to overhead parking to some

[33:42] >> because that's where the landscaping

[33:43] piece comes, right? I think Terry's got

[33:45] probably a decent solution to that in my mind and that is that you know if

[33:50] we if the reason for having head parking

[33:52] is to reduce the heat heat island effect

[33:54] and have landscaping in there and we

[33:56] move the landscaping a little bit down

[33:57] the way or some other place and and

[34:00] reduce that you know eliminate that

[34:02] problem in that fashion that might be a

[34:04] >> right viable

[34:06] >> because of the vertical elevation of the

[34:08] vertical that yeah

[34:10] >> you normally wouldn't want to do that if

[34:12] you had space in a normal parking that

[34:14] was on the same level, but in this case,

[34:16] you might be able to and and

[34:19] uh landscape the wall at the same time.

[34:22] And then

[34:24] when it comes to the portable

[34:28] restroom,

[34:30] um

[34:32] are you wanting to see dimensions and

[34:35] under have a better understanding of

[34:37] what constitutes the size?

[34:40] >> I'd like to understand

[34:44] um well, for example, when when we get

[34:46] lighting plans, it often includes

[34:48] pictures of the lighting fixtures.

[34:50] Right.

[34:50] >> Right. So, I'd like to have an

[34:52] indication. Okay, this is the portable

[34:54] restroom we're putting in. Here's what

[34:56] it's going to look like. And then the

[34:59] screening material is going to be let's

[35:02] perhaps it's rust rusted metal or some

[35:05] other material. We'd like to know what

[35:07] that material is going to be. Um, and

[35:10] what color it's going to be. Uh,

[35:14] >> is it called out?

[35:15] >> It says metal.

[35:19] >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, it's called out as

[35:21] metal screening. Um I'd like to know

[35:24] that it's for example that it's rusted

[35:27] because that's meets the requirements.

[35:29] Um question might be is it like a flat

[35:33] metal or you know you see some fences

[35:35] around that are a corrugated.

[35:37] Um, I think there's options, but I think

[35:40] in terms of of approving a design

[35:43] development review, I'd like to see we

[35:46] usually see those kinds of things in um,

[35:48] you know, pictures of this is what the

[35:50] external materials are going to look

[35:51] like.

[36:09] I understand those concerns. Sorry, my

[36:11] mind just keeps going to um

[36:14] the potential conditions

[36:17] we can list and uh

[36:21] if any of these would fit into that

[36:23] rather than a a reubmission that the

[36:27] picture thing,

[36:29] >> you know, made sense to me. But at the

[36:31] same time,

[36:34] if the materials comply with the town's

[36:36] standards,

[36:39] >> um

[36:42] I I could see us potentially going

[36:44] either way. Approval with a significant

[36:48] number of conditions, right,

[36:49] >> or denial and a request to come back.

[36:52] >> Um I think the advantage of denial and

[36:54] request to come back is that we could

[36:56] see those things.

[36:59] um the state of conditions would be then

[37:02] the staff would confirm and I think you

[37:04] know we can also trust the staff to

[37:05] confirm well too. So

[37:08] my personal preference right now is is

[37:10] to deny because I would like to see the

[37:12] whole picture but I'm like to hear other

[37:15] people in this

[37:17] >> the question that I would have in that

[37:18] regard is rather as an alternative

[37:21] denial can we table it and give the

[37:23] applicant time to submit a a model. So

[37:26] just just procedurally uh you would

[37:29] table a decision and request that

[37:31] information if you wanted to see it

[37:33] again rather than deny the

[37:34] >> that way we wouldn't have to incur

[37:36] additional fees or anything like that.

[37:37] Right.

[37:37] >> Yeah. Exactly.

[37:38] >> Okay.

[37:40] Yeah. That

[37:40] >> I would rather do

[37:41] >> I like that better than a resubmission.

[37:47] Uh

[37:50] I would say um part of that regarding

[37:53] the trash and recycling receptacles

[37:58] if there you know just what that

[38:01] >> well

[38:01] >> that will be

[38:02] >> they could be play you know we could see

[38:03] where to be

[38:04] >> exactly

[38:05] >> that would be one of the

[38:06] >> and what the enclosure

[38:08] >> is and all that

[38:19] » my other parking lot.

[38:21] >> Did you come up to the

[38:22] >> Yeah, thank you.

[38:23] >> We produce a lot of trash at this

[38:25] parking lot.

[38:27] I think over the years Janet just had a

[38:29] little can receives diapers and socks or

[38:32] whatever. Just um

[38:35] is there a size requirement for that? I

[38:38] don't have like something that's

[38:39] producing a ton of trash. Like right now

[38:41] I don't have a a trash can at all. I

[38:43] pick up trash twice a week and it's just

[38:45] a little baggie.

[38:48] Just a receptacle like a large trash can

[38:52] that's screened.

[38:54] >> Do I have to?

[38:54] >> No, there's not a size requirement.

[38:57] >> I didn't read that it had to be a

[38:58] dumpster,

[38:59] >> right? No, it does not have No, in fact,

[39:00] >> just a just a trash facility and a

[39:02] recycling facility. That's what I

[39:03] thought. And I can see that if as a

[39:05] business I need a bigger dumpster, then

[39:06] I get one. But I I couldn't see in the

[39:08] code that it said it just said

[39:10] receptacle.

[39:11] >> Right.

[39:12] >> So here here's the exact verbiage from

[39:16] the code. So it says the owner of a

[39:18] public parking area must provide trash

[39:20] and recycling recepticles.

[39:23] >> The parking lot owner or operator must

[39:25] keep the trash and recycle recycling

[39:28] receptacles clean and emptied.

[39:30] >> Thank you. That's what I was hoping for.

[39:32] >> And it doesn't need to be screened or

[39:33] anything, right? Just provide the

[39:37] Yeah.

[39:39] >> Okay.

[39:40] >> Put them next to the um coffee place.

[39:43] It's where you're going to get the most

[39:44] trash probably.

[39:45] >> What's that?

[39:46] >> I guess you could put them next to the

[39:48] uh the coffee. Um and I would suggest

[39:51] the lounge area. People are going to be

[39:52] picnicking there. You need to have

[39:54] something over that end as well because

[39:57] you're sort of inviting trash.

[40:12] We ready?

[40:13] >> I think so. Yeah.

[40:15] >> Okay. So, um I assume then I I'll

[40:19] replace approves denies with table and

[40:21] otherwise proceed, right?

[40:24] Okay.

[40:26] Um

[40:29] so I I think

[40:31] um Um

[40:34] yeah,

[40:36] so the uh planning commission um wishes

[40:39] to table the design development review

[40:42] application for an expansion of the

[40:44] public parking lot at 50 Zion Park

[40:48] Boulevard as discussed in the planning

[40:50] commission meeting dated June 3rd, 2026.

[40:54] It's based on the following findings. Um

[40:57] the acute angle spaces require oneway

[41:00] traffic per lane or oneway traffic lane

[41:04] per the town code 10237E and 10237F.

[41:09] So this section will have to be

[41:11] reconfigured.

[41:13] Um the additional landscape uh uh

[41:16] landscaping within the asphalt area um

[41:20] will need to be sized to meet the

[41:23] requirements of the landscaping. um but

[41:26] does have the flexibility to not be in

[41:29] exactly the the same positions because

[41:31] of the configuration of the of the lot.

[41:34] Um and this uh refers to town code

[41:37] 10186C and 10239B.

[41:43] Um

[41:44] the uh self-contained restroom

[41:48] uh needs to meet the town code um and is

[41:51] also to be screened. Um, and we would

[41:53] like to see the screening material. Uh,

[41:57] what that will be. Um, the applicant

[42:00] will also provide trash and recycling

[42:03] recepticles on the property and we'd

[42:05] like to see them noted as to where they

[42:07] will be. Um,

[42:10] let's see. And then we would like uh

[42:13] more in Okay. More detail on the mobile

[42:18] business uh space dedications. That was

[42:20] what you were asking about, Paul. Right.

[42:22] Yeah.

[42:22] >> How much what spaces and how much space?

[42:25] >> How much space?

[42:26] and how many parking

[42:27] spaces and where?

[42:32] » That's my motion.

[42:33] >> And

[42:35] I would suggest a modification to

[42:37] include a surface water drainage

[42:39] strategy.

[42:40] >> Yes, the drainage strategy for approval

[42:43] Springdale within two months of the date

[42:44] of this approval.

[42:45] >> Right. There there will be surface and

[42:47] add to that the surface uh water

[42:50] drainage strategy and plan will be

[42:52] submitted to the town

[42:55] for approval by in town engineer.

[42:59] Thank you. I forgot that one. And then

[43:01] the the only uh other thing would be the

[43:06] um

[43:09] vertical landscaping of the wall that

[43:12] was offered. Um do we want to require

[43:17] one? Okay. So also also a de

[43:21] a um drawings expect and and materials

[43:25] plant materials being used for the

[43:27] vertical landscaping of the wall.

[43:31] » Second

[43:33] >> motion by Terry, second by Paul. All in

[43:36] favor?

[43:37] >> Terry I.

[43:38] >> Jennifer I.

[43:39] >> Paul I.

[43:42] Kosh I

[43:44] >> motion passes.

[43:47] >> Thank you.

[43:47] >> We'll see you again.

[43:48] >> Thank you.

[43:54] >> Item B on the agenda, the consent

[43:56] agenda, approval of minutes from March

[43:59] 18th, April 1st, April 15th, and May

[44:02] 6th. Are there any suggested changes or

[44:05] a motion for approval? If there's no

[44:08] changes suggested, I move that we

[44:10] approve the consent agenda. Uh

[44:12] >> I will second.

[44:13] >> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in

[44:15] favor?

[44:16] >> Terry I.

[44:17] >> Jennifer I.

[44:18] >> Paul I.

[44:19] >> Hash I.

[44:20] >> Melissa I.

[44:21] >> Motion passes.

[44:22] >> I move that we adjourn.

[44:26] I have a second.

[44:27] >> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in

[44:30] favor?

[44:30] >> Terry I.

[44:31] >> Jennifer I.

[44:32] >> Paul I. Ash.

[44:33] >> I.

[44:35] >> Meeting is adjourned.

06/03/2026 Planning Commission Special Meeting

Transcript