[0:00] Ready?

[0:00] >> Okay. Okay. [clears throat] I'd like to

[0:04] uh welcome everybody to the Springdale

[0:06] Art Review Board meeting. Um this is a

[0:09] special meeting.

[0:11] Today is Monday, July 6th, 2026

[0:16] and the time is 12:08.

[0:19] Um we are at the Canyon Community Center

[0:22] here in Springdale. And joining us we

[0:24] have Tom Dancy.

[0:27] We've got a new kid on the block,

[0:28] >> David Walpert.

[0:31] >> David Wahlberg, uh Nile Connley, April

[0:35] Radits,

[0:36] um uh Mike

[0:40] Alucker,

[0:42] Kathy Lefay, myself, Jack Burns, Lisa

[0:46] Benham, and Jim Walsh. I think we should

[0:50] have our main [laughter]

[0:54] » uh Okay. So, uh we have a couple items

[0:57] on the agenda today, but before we get

[0:59] started, could we uh get a motion for

[1:02] approval of the agenda?

[1:04] >> I'll move to approve the agenda.

[1:06] >> I'd second it.

[1:07] >> All in [clears throat] favor?

[1:08] >> I

[1:11] uh any general announcements from the

[1:13] town? I'd like to uh introduce David

[1:17] Walpert, our new zoning administrator,

[1:19] who's here with us. So, we're delighted

[1:21] he joined us a few weeks ago, so he'll

[1:24] be at the meeting.

[1:26] >> That's great.

[1:29] >> Okay. Um

[1:31] so, the first item we have is an action

[1:33] item. This is an application for a mural

[1:36] at Iceberg Restaurant located at 849

[1:40] Zion Park Boulevard. and Nile, you're

[1:43] gonna get us started.

[1:45] >> Yeah, thank you. So, the art re review

[1:49] board has requested to make a

[1:50] determination on a mural application at

[1:53] the Iceberg [snorts] restaurant which is

[1:55] at 849 Z Park Boulevard. Uh the board

[1:59] reviewed this application at the last

[2:01] meeting and decided to table uh the

[2:05] decision uh mostly to allow board

[2:08] members to view the mural after dark. Um

[2:12] so the board should now take this time

[2:14] to deliberate on the mural and make a

[2:16] determination on it. Uh the the key

[2:20] points are as follows. So there's the

[2:22] color palette. So the questions around

[2:24] that. The second point is around whether

[2:28] this is advertising or not and as the policy says that it it should be

[2:36] a work of art rather than uh than

[2:38] advertising.

[2:40] And then thirdly, h is it illuminated?

[2:43] And I I think since the last time you've

[2:46] all been able to visit it at nighttime,

[2:48] so you can draw a conclusion on that

[2:51] point too.

[2:53] And just finally, we received a public

[2:55] comment just this morning actually and

[2:59] I think you have a copy of it there, do

[3:02] you?

[3:08] So, just to draw your attention to that

[3:10] as well. So, I'd be happy to answer any

[3:12] questions. The business owners are here

[3:15] and they'll be able to answer questions

[3:17] too if you would like.

[3:23] » Start with um comments on the color

[3:26] palette. Um, you know, if a

[3:31] image of Zion National Park pretty

[3:34] spot-on color-wise is not on our color

[3:37] palette, we ought to look at our color

[3:38] palette.

[3:40] >> That I mean, I feel strongly on that. I

[3:42] mean, that is to me, if you look at the

[3:46] thought of going forward with art

[3:50] installations within this community, and

[3:52] we're encouraging public art

[3:53] installations, and we even had comments.

[3:57] That image just went away. Um, we even

[4:00] had comments about like how could you

[4:04] incorporate photography paintings in

[4:07] terms of public art. we talked about

[4:09] along the the walls that were put in um

[4:14] the artificial stone walls and

[4:18] you know um iceberg drive-in

[4:22] you know that

[4:24] I wrestle with that portion of it. I

[4:26] think it's tastefully artistically done.

[4:29] Um I even think it's kind of it's not a

[4:33] drive-in but it kind of it's like a

[4:35] retro flashback to what iceberg started

[4:39] as

[4:41] um you know I stuck it in front of the

[4:44] cliffs as I am that we're you know we

[4:46] might struggle with that a bit. I think

[4:49] it's adorable. Um

[4:52] that being said,

[4:54] we're faced with what might come after

[4:57] this and in the future and somebody

[4:59] else's arguments of what verbiage might

[5:02] be appropriate or not. But I also drove

[5:06] through town and Springdale Candy

[5:09] Company had I mean I can't tell you how

[5:12] much verbiage is on their windows. I

[5:14] mean it's it's a ton and it's

[5:16] advertising and are we questioning it

[5:18] because it's not mural or not art. Um

[5:22] you look at the switchback you know

[5:24] stakes this that you know those are

[5:28] words.

[5:30] Those are my comments for for now.

[5:35] I [clears throat] looked at it and I

[5:36] went and I didn't looked at it and I

[5:38] also looked up actually what a mural is

[5:42] and I'm going to take the stance that

[5:43] it's not a mural, it's a sign. And I

[5:46] think that it should really go back to

[5:48] the city and they have signage and the

[5:51] city can look at it and they can make

[5:53] exceptions. It has advertising on it. It

[5:57] doesn't fill the whole color uh uh that

[6:01] was set up. So, I'm just going to take

[6:03] the stance. It's not a mural and it

[6:05] really isn't in our our area to judge

[6:09] and I look at it as a sign and I would

[6:11] recommend it go back to the city and

[6:13] they can take it from there.

[6:17] >> I think from a functional standpoint,

[6:18] from what they said, it's actually um

[6:22] it's a window covering, right? It's

[6:24] actually it was put there to serve and

[6:26] not have a big glaring kitchen window

[6:29] going out into the town. So just just to

[6:33] either simplify or complicate things,

[6:35] it's it's um I don't even

[6:40] the exceptions that the I'm not maybe as

[6:42] familiar as you are with the exceptions

[6:44] that the town is allowed to to make

[6:46] regarding window coverings, but I think

[6:48] in this case the added area is actually

[6:51] serving functionally in a way that

[6:53] shouldn't be penalized.

[6:55] And um

[6:58] from an artistic standpoint, I was just

[7:01] looking at it again and kind of laughing

[7:02] and going, you know, from a fine art

[7:03] standpoint, it's kind of hilarious that

[7:06] because there's this giant um this is

[7:10] like coming from a I love I love art

[7:12] when it tweaks your brain standpoint.

[7:15] It's this giant billboard that would

[7:17] absolutely never be allowed placed on a

[7:19] rock like that in the canyon and yet

[7:22] it's quite delightful on a small window.

[7:24] So, uh, I I think it has a lot of merit

[7:27] coming from a lot of different

[7:28] directions and I would just hate us to

[7:30] see the whole project browbeated because

[7:33] of technicality technicalities that we

[7:36] don't know what to do with.

[7:38] >> I I might suggest that the board could

[7:41] recommend to the city that we see it as

[7:45] a sign and that we support it. I don't

[7:49] know what they're available to do if

[7:51] they can make exceptions. I don't have

[7:53] any idea, but obviously we're looking at

[7:58] >> exceptions with the color with the

[8:00] signage. So, I'm going to sort of stick

[8:02] with it's a sign and it should go back

[8:05] to the city. And I think that if we all

[8:08] feel strongly about it and if we want to

[8:10] support it, we could give let them know

[8:12] that we support it and they could take

[8:14] it from there.

[8:16] >> Okay.

[8:18] I've taken my chill pill. Um,

[8:22] we were told it's a mural, meeting one,

[8:24] and the reasons why it's a mural, sign

[8:27] or size, um, etc.

[8:31] This will be our third meeting dealing

[8:33] with this. If we kick it back to the

[8:36] town, we will have at least two more

[8:38] meetings dealing with this. I have I

[8:40] think we're all in support of what's

[8:42] there. I do. I mean, I kind of hear that

[8:43] under undertone. And I think there's a

[8:48] very um

[8:50] easy way to do this using the wonderful

[8:55] policy that we created. Um follow our

[8:59] policy and with a few conditions we can

[9:03] make this happen. If we want to say no, Don't do this loop-de-doo with

[9:08] the town. Just say no.

[9:09] >> No. No. Because why?

[9:11] >> Whatever. because

[9:14] >> I just it drives me nuts that nobody can

[9:16] make a decision.

[9:17] >> I think that you

[9:22] subject

[9:24] to

[9:28] votes,

[9:28] >> right?

[9:29] >> But I would like to hear what the motion

[9:31] >> Let me There were three items that Nile

[9:33] spoke to. One was the um illumination,

[9:36] the color, and what's the last one? Um

[9:39] signage advertising. Um the illumination

[9:42] as far as I'm concerned is a mood issue.

[9:45] I I looked at it at night. Lisa went

[9:48] last night. Uh it's not an issue. So I

[9:50] think we're in agreement there. Um the

[9:52] color palette in our policy. It says um

[10:00] a majority of the colors

[10:04] are shown on the town's pallet for

[10:07] building constructions. other less

[10:08] significant colors are compatible with

[10:10] the existing and built surroundings of

[10:13] the site. That's our own words. It in my

[10:15] mind spot on.

[10:18] Um

[10:19] so illumination I think we've agreed on

[10:24] color. We can talk about signing and

[10:26] advertising. I think that's the the

[10:28] issue. We we turn sign adventure around

[10:32] strongly for the word Zion in their

[10:35] sign. Um because

[10:41] » whatever. Um, and you're you're right

[10:44] on. Um, this isn't just about this

[10:47] application there. There's a whole bunch

[10:49] more coming. And

[10:52] so, just so I'm clear on your position

[10:54] though, you want us to make a motion on

[10:58] this because it was given to us by the

[11:01] town as a mural.

[11:04] Now, whether we agree moving forward

[11:07] beyond this application, whether or not

[11:09] it's a window covering or a mural, then

[11:13] you're saying that's a a separate

[11:15] conversation.

[11:17] >> And if we say it's a window covering,

[11:20] my understanding from Nile on our last

[11:22] meeting, it doesn't comply. It's too

[11:24] big. It it, you know, it just it's not a

[11:27] window sign. So then they would have to

[11:29] go back and either redesign a window

[11:32] sign, which is smaller or they would

[11:35] have to propose a mural and they'd be

[11:37] back in front of us with the same issue.

[11:40] >> I don't think it would come back to us,

[11:41] Jack. If we say we don't consider it a

[11:43] mural and that give it back to the city,

[11:46] like I said, if it's a sign, then the

[11:48] city will have to make a decision on it.

[11:51] And I'm not sure the city has the power

[11:54] to make exceptions. Obviously, we do too

[11:57] because we have a, as I understand it, a

[11:59] very strict color code as far as it

[12:02] goes. And we've already looking at that

[12:05] in this uh this piece. So,

[12:09] >> I just think last talked about this,

[12:12] Nile spoke to the fact that it it um is

[12:16] not a window sign because of its size

[12:20] and um okay, what is it then? It's a

[12:22] mural and that's why it's in our lap. I

[12:25] and I I would feel really bad sending

[12:28] these two

[12:30] >> down a rabbit hole. I think it's

[12:32] tastefully done. I don't think

[12:35] elimination is an issue.

[12:38] I just I think it's great and

[12:42] unfortunately the words got put there. I

[12:45] in this situation

[12:48] I'd like the whole thing to stay because

[12:50] it has a nostalgic feel. It doesn't

[12:52] strike advertising. There is so much

[12:54] advertising around that building that is

[12:57] advertising. To me, it's retro and it's

[13:01] a take back old driveins. And to me,

[13:04] those words aren't meant to be

[13:06] advertisement. They're meant to be

[13:08] nostalgic and a take back. And I think

[13:11] that I think we have to be openminded

[13:13] enough to look at things on a case by

[13:15] case basis and decide whether it's

[13:17] advertising or if it's not. And

[13:22] I completely agree.

[13:24] >> So, I'm going to step us back just a

[13:25] little bit [clears throat] because I

[13:27] have to admit recognizing that I missed

[13:29] the meeting. Um, when I read this, it's

[13:33] like what? Why are we calling this a

[13:34] mural? And I don't want I just want to

[13:38] make sure that by

[13:41] um

[13:43] u moving forward with this is that we

[13:46] are not precedent setting in that we

[13:49] decided to treat it as a mural versus a

[13:52] window covering and I'm I'm going to ask

[13:55] for some recommendation.

[14:04] » Can we call it public art

[14:11] and have it not necessarily I mean

[14:14] public art is sculpture,

[14:16] it's music, it's murals, it's

[14:20] photography, [clears throat] it's

[14:22] painting, it it has a

[14:25] >> but public art also has a caveat that

[14:30] the two has to be on display. it has to

[14:34] be up for so many weeks. U so there's a

[14:38] whole if you look into what public art

[14:40] is there's a whole list of what they

[14:43] consider is public art.

[14:45] >> I don't think at least given the things

[14:48] that you just remembered to list I don't

[14:49] think this would fail in that regard.

[14:52] Um, I just want to clarify when I called

[14:55] it a window covering, I was thinking

[14:56] like curtain, not window decal or

[15:00] whatever the town ordinance um has very

[15:03] strict rules on. I literally meant a

[15:05] window covering. So,

[15:07] >> you mean like a curtain?

[15:09] >> Yes. Because that's when they described

[15:11] functionally why it came about.

[15:14] >> Um, if if that lends a different facet

[15:16] with which to view this.

[15:21] » Great. So uh ju just a few thoughts. Um

[15:24] so for your information I've brought up

[15:26] the definitions and the policy of mural

[15:29] and public art just there so you can

[15:32] refer to those. Um yeah so a few

[15:35] thoughts. I think um

[15:40] as far as um due process goes for the

[15:44] applicants. I would maybe recommend that

[15:47] you make a decision one way or the other

[15:50] in this meeting. I think um determining

[15:54] that it's signage and that would require

[15:57] them to make another permit application.

[16:00] Uh they probably would not get approved.

[16:02] It it's probably

[16:05] not fair to the applicants to do that.

[16:08] would be my sense. I I I would

[16:10] recommend that you do make a decision on

[16:13] the basis that it is a mural. Um

[16:18] and um I would say you know those those

[16:23] three points that I mentioned at the

[16:25] beginning

[16:26] those are really the three points that

[16:28] this is hinging on. And so I think you

[16:31] know I would focus on um whether you

[16:36] think this complies with those three

[16:38] points um and whether that's um you know

[16:42] justified within the policy that that

[16:44] would be my recommendation.

[16:47] If if we need to kind of look at window

[16:50] coverings or window signs or the

[16:54] definition of the mural a little bit

[16:56] more broadly and and tweak this policy

[17:01] that we could do that but probably at a

[17:04] separate meeting that that we would kind

[17:06] of discuss that. I I would recommend

[17:09] making a determination on this based on

[17:12] the policy based on the fact that it has

[17:14] been defined as a mural and kind of

[17:17] based on those standards.

[17:19] >> Neil, did you define it as a mural?

[17:22] >> Who defined it as a mural?

[17:24] >> So that that was a staff decision that

[17:27] kind of based on this definition here.

[17:29] with a mix of colors, designs, and

[17:31] shapes, and other design elements

[17:33] painted or permanently fixed onto a

[17:36] vertical or nearvertical surface of a

[17:39] structure for the purpose of artistic

[17:41] display.

[17:43] And that was that was staff's

[17:47] interpretation that it would fall under

[17:49] that category.

[17:50] >> And is this a vinyl covering?

[17:53] >> It it is a wrap, isn't it? Yeah.

[17:56] >> Yeah. So, can we go back to the the

[18:02] photograph of the um window covering? Um

[18:07] so, again, I want to talk about the text

[18:11] within it. If you go around the other

[18:13] side of the building, shakes,

[18:16] hamburgers,

[18:18] you know, I that is as much advertising

[18:21] >> windows. I know. But

[18:25] >> in terms of like aesthetic impact, that

[18:28] is so small, I think is what you

[18:30] >> It's just so small. I mean, when I look

[18:32] at that, I see Zion National Park and

[18:34] then I just slightly see Iceberg

[18:36] Drive-In and I think, "Oh, that reminds

[18:38] me of when I was a kid and I would go to

[18:39] the A&W drive-in and we'd pull up." It

[18:41] it's it doesn't make me think of

[18:44] advertisement. It makes me think of

[18:46] childhood and the drive-ins that we used

[18:48] to go through and get cheeseburgers,

[18:49] fries, and a rip your float. It just

[18:52] doesn't because they aren't a drive-in.

[18:54] Why would they put drive-in if they were

[18:56] trying to advertise their drive-in? They

[18:58] don't have one. It's a flashback to when

[19:00] iceberg first got started. So,

[19:05] I don't have a problem with the

[19:06] >> Would another restaurant be acceptable

[19:08] with the same type of advertising?

[19:11] depending on what it was if it wasn't,

[19:15] >> you know, something blatant. I

[19:18] >> Is their name blatant?

[19:21] >> It is. And I like it in this case. So,

[19:23] you're right. I'm I'm I'm not saying I'm

[19:25] right, Mike. I'm not saying I'm right.

[19:29] >> I don't I agree with what you're saying.

[19:30] I'm thinking about what comes next. What

[19:32] comes

[19:33] >> I understand.

[19:33] >> Yeah.

[19:35] >> How do How do we say yes to this and

[19:37] then have somebody else not come along?

[19:39] >> Here's the question.

[19:41] If the letters, can the letters be

[19:44] changed to red rock without just having

[19:47] a blue thing tossed over the front?

[19:50] Okay.

[19:52] >> It's either it stays up or

[19:57] >> is the I'm not spending I'm not

[20:01] >> Yeah. Is this a

[20:05] » Is this a twopiece installation?

[20:08] >> It's one

[20:10] It it looks like

[20:11] >> it looks like it has

[20:12] >> it looks like two because that's the

[20:14] shot of illuminated.

[20:16] >> So you're saying

[20:17] >> you're not changing you're not going to

[20:19] eliminate the iceberg?

[20:20] >> Well, we have to redo the whole thing

[20:23] do it all again. And then I mean the guy

[20:27] who installed it is the one who wrapped

[20:29] our inside of our building. So

[20:32] >> our dining room area

[20:33] >> like who wrapped the inside of our

[20:34] dining room. So I we just

[20:36] >> I'm not bringing him in.

[20:37] He came he comes from Salt Lake. So like

[20:39] for us it's just not going to be worth

[20:41] it.

[20:45] » And it serves it serves a second purpose

[20:47] in regard to on the other side of the

[20:50] window is our shake room and it gets

[20:52] really hot

[20:53] >> in there. So

[20:54] >> in there

[20:55] >> n I understand where they're

[21:00] again reading what

[21:03] to me it doesn't qualify as a mural.

[21:07] it qualifies as signed. Now, my question

[21:09] would be, you said they'd have to make a

[21:11] new application out and everything else,

[21:14] new fees. Could those all be waved? And

[21:17] if it's a sign, then do you have this?

[21:21] And I don't know, does it go to the

[21:22] planning committee? Is that who makes

[21:24] the final decision on signs?

[21:26] >> So, if it was determined to be a sign,

[21:29] uh, it would be approved by staff um in

[21:33] this case. So window signs um are only

[21:36] allowed to take up 25% of the total

[21:40] window area. And so this this is the

[21:43] whole thing. So I wouldn't recommend

[21:47] that they would make an application

[21:49] because we would deny it because it

[21:52] wouldn't comply. So um

[21:57] yeah, so it wouldn't comply with the

[21:59] signage standards,

[22:01] >> but but in the same sense, it doesn't

[22:04] comply to what some of the mural uh

[22:07] criteria is. For example, no advertising

[22:11] and if you stick with the strict color

[22:12] palette, it doesn't even though I don't

[22:15] have a problem with the color because I

[22:16] agree it's what actually that it looks

[22:19] like. So, we're in the same quandry that

[22:23] you would be in. I just am a little

[22:25] nervous about when I look at at the

[22:28] definition of a mural than anything else

[22:31] that comes in. Um,

[22:35] and I again consider this a sign. So, I

[22:38] mean that's just my feeling on it. And

[22:40] someone may feel you all may feel

[22:42] different, but

[22:43] >> it's it's almost like like because the

[22:47] thing is glass, we have to do something

[22:50] vastly different with it instead of just

[22:53] the hanging size out front out in front

[22:55] of the store, right? Like it feels like

[22:59] we're shoehorning it into whatever

[23:02] category we can find without actually

[23:06] thinking what like

[23:08] satellite view like what's what's the

[23:10] actual impact of this and is it helping

[23:14] or hurting on several different

[23:17] >> Can there be no exceptions to the

[23:19] signage rules?

[23:21] Does the does it does does the city not

[23:24] have the same power that we do to make a

[23:27] recommendation on something and take

[23:29] this into consideration as a unique

[23:32] thing it for signage that it is a cover.

[23:35] They're using it as a I would almost say

[23:38] a a a I don't want to say a drape, but

[23:40] like a curtain and there are some other

[23:43] implications in it that because of the the light that comes through and

[23:50] everything else. So that is is there no

[23:52] wiggle room within the city to make that

[23:55] decision?

[23:56] >> I think that they the town was correct

[23:58] in that it isn't a sign and they put it

[24:00] in front of us as a mural and I think we

[24:02] have to make a decision on that. Okay.

[24:05] So, so maybe maybe the shift is is to

[24:12] » probably solve the problem. We're trying

[24:14] to figure out this is cool, but what

[24:16] comes next? That's that's where we're

[24:17] stuck, right?

[24:18] >> So, it seems like our conversation I'm

[24:20] hearing, the only really open item we

[24:22] have is the advertising and the text.

[24:24] >> Yep.

[24:25] >> And I'm strongly against it and I

[24:29] understand the predicament it puts the

[24:31] applicant in. However, if this had come

[24:34] before the town in the right process, we

[24:37] wouldn't be here. It would have been

[24:38] solved at the application process. So,

[24:41] we're, you know, we're trying to

[24:42] retrofit something backwards and um I

[24:48] don't think we were hired to do that,

[24:50] but

[24:51] >> well, actually, we were

[24:52] >> that's what we're doing. Um this whole

[24:55] >> So, I think the discussion should be

[24:56] about the advertising and the words. If

[24:58] we can resolve that, I'm against it.

[25:00] I'll vote against it. But if I get

[25:01] overruled, fine. I'll go with the

[25:03] majority. But

[25:04] >> I I came here today wanting this to get

[25:07] approved because I think it's so great.

[25:09] I really do. And I'm so sorry. I I just

[25:14] um I I think it adds to the charm. I

[25:17] think you guys did an incredible job

[25:18] with the red, white, that everything

[25:20] that's going on down there. It makes

[25:23] downtown Springdale more charming. But I

[25:25] would have to agree with you

[25:27] >> on the text and maybe there's a creative

[25:30] way to fix it. I don't know.

[25:32] >> And I I just don't accept it as a mural.

[25:35] >> Is there something like a p we could add

[25:38] to our policies? Sort of a percentage of

[25:41] what you know it's it's not like a whole

[25:44] wall saying Coca-Cola or something. It's

[25:46] a tiny little

[25:48] >> I think it's another I think it's the

[25:49] next conversation. I think clearly

[25:53] uh the policy needs to be revisited so

[25:56] that we have a better understanding of

[25:59] what is that a window that we're not

[26:01] confusing a window covering with a

[26:03] mural. But I think let's deal what we

[26:06] have in front of us and let's make a

[26:09] motion on that

[26:12] and then it sounds like there's more

[26:14] discussion needed to refine the policy.

[26:17] I would love to use not have them pay

[26:20] for us not thinking of the details that

[26:23] would I guess I would sorry let me say

[26:26] um

[26:30] towards our fear of what comes next. We

[26:33] will address that with different

[26:37] with with more stipulation as to what

[26:39] kind of verbiage might appear on a mural

[26:45] as opposed to say, well, you came in too

[26:48] early. Sorry. You know,

[26:50] >> we did do that design adventure and we

[26:52] made them repaint, but they could

[26:54] repaint. Now we're trying to wiggle out

[26:56] of it because they can't, you know. So

[26:58] to your credit, what Mike's saying is

[27:02] Zion Adventure was able to go back and

[27:04] paint that portion of the sign with

[27:06] limited financial impact to them. They

[27:08] cannot remove the verbage from this.

[27:11] >> Yeah.

[27:12] >> So we're trying to make it work.

[27:13] >> I guess I maybe the difference I see

[27:16] maybe is that we didn't want to backtrack with the

[27:24] sign adventure mural. We were pretty

[27:25] firm about what was okay and what

[27:27] wasn't. whereas this we're kind of like

[27:30] this is a case we didn't consider and we

[27:32] would like to have that movement moving

[27:34] forward.

[27:36] >> That's true.

[27:36] >> I still think I agree. I would like to

[27:39] see it work. I don't think it qualifies

[27:40] as a mural and I think that the city has

[27:44] the opportunity to look at it and not

[27:47] charge them again an additional fee for

[27:51] uh applying for it as signage. And they

[27:53] could call it a window cover, whatever.

[27:56] and that the the city could take a look

[27:59] at it and make the decision. To me

[28:02] personally, I don't think this ever

[28:03] should have come before us because to me

[28:06] it's not a mural. I've read everything

[28:08] on murals how what murals are. It's a

[28:11] panoramic. I like it if it but it's it

[28:17] to me if I look at the I looked at the

[28:19] real strict definition of what a mural

[28:22] is, how it's applied, what materials are

[28:25] used on, etc. So I am I'm going to vote

[28:33] that it be sent back to the city for

[28:36] them to reconsider it. So that's my

[28:38] feeling.

[28:39] >> I have a question. So, I'm gonna get

[28:43] some really bad looks on this one. Um,

[28:46] we we tabled this because we all wanted

[28:49] to look at it. We've all looked at it

[28:51] and and we see that it it has an

[28:53] artistic quality to it. So within the

[28:56] art review process,

[28:59] can a section be added for um artistic

[29:03] window wraps that we create a paragraph to that and

[29:10] what we allow in it. And then we can

[29:12] have further discussion as to whether

[29:14] verbiage and what percentage of the face

[29:16] of that sign could have verbiage before

[29:19] we have somebody go strip down something

[29:21] that's not harming anybody within the

[29:24] community. I mean it's not I mean we may

[29:27] after a lot of table discussion decide

[29:29] we don't want to see window wraps or we

[29:31] do want to see window wraps and they can

[29:33] be created as a whole another thing. It

[29:35] doesn't have to be a mural. It doesn't

[29:36] have to be a photograph. It doesn't have

[29:38] to be um a painting. It doesn't have to

[29:41] be a sculpture. can be its own thing

[29:44] because I think you know this was done

[29:46] in a very artistic tasteful way and we

[29:52] can't we can't make it a mural. It has

[29:55] to go down. If we call it a mural it has

[29:57] to come down because it has it has word

[30:00] words and advertisement. It has the name

[30:03] of their business and we made Zion

[30:05] Adventure Company remove the name of

[30:07] their business. So if in the process of

[30:10] creating

[30:12] our master plan

[30:15] we have a section that talks about you

[30:18] know other art forms and what those

[30:20] other art forms could potentially be.

[30:23] >> Well I guess for me I guess I as as

[30:25] visually pleasing as this is I don't

[30:27] think we should confuse it as art. I

[30:30] think it's I think it's a window

[30:32] covering and and I think that um uh you

[30:36] know I'm kind of curious uh if if

[30:39] somebody who wants to tint their window

[30:40] because this has a transparency

[30:44] what are the limitations of someone says

[30:46] this is a window tint it just has an

[30:49] image on it. I mean is that another

[30:52] realm that I mean how does the the town

[30:54] deal with window tinting?

[30:58] >> Yeah. So I I don't believe that the code

[31:02] has anything very specific on that. Um

[31:05] what we do have is for window signs. Um

[31:10] it says so non-elilluminated permanent

[31:12] window signs may be painted on or

[31:14] otherwise displayed provided total copy

[31:18] area of such signs shall not exceed a

[31:20] maximum of 25% of the total window area

[31:24] um on which it is displayed

[31:27] or one square foot per linear front foot

[31:31] of the premises occupied whichever is

[31:33] the lesser. So, um,

[31:37] >> are there no exceptions to that? Does

[31:40] the city not have the ability to make

[31:42] exceptions to that?

[31:45] >> That's that's my question.

[31:46] >> Then you're setting the president.

[31:48] >> So, the setting the president all over

[31:50] again.

[31:51] >> So,

[31:51] >> well, but we're talking about us taking

[31:54] a look at it and changing things. Maybe

[31:56] the city needs to look at their sign

[31:58] policy and add window covering in there

[32:01] and making a change. In the meantime,

[32:04] what we're trying to do is not penalize

[32:06] the business owners for doing something

[32:08] and make and which I hearing what you

[32:10] saying, Kathy, not necessarily making

[32:12] them take it down, which is the big

[32:14] cost, not necessarily making them

[32:16] reapply for another permit of some sort

[32:21] and then going through the process. But

[32:23] in the mean in in the meantime,

[32:27] again, it might be to the point where

[32:29] the city really needs to take a look at

[32:31] this and really take take another look

[32:33] at their signage. Uh uh uh and obviously

[32:40] if we can recommend

[32:43] exceptions, well then and if I think

[32:46] always our stuff goes to the city, the

[32:48] city needs to take a good look at it.

[32:50] And Jack, you're on the city council.

[32:52] Well, I I guess Jim, I appreciate, you

[32:55] know, kind of where you're going. I I

[32:57] understand you're trying to find a way

[32:59] to make this work. Where I'm not

[33:01] comfortable with what you're suggesting

[33:03] is is knowing that this is the very type

[33:06] of thing that will come back at us where

[33:09] this could have all been resolved, and

[33:10] don't take this the wrong way, but this

[33:13] could have all been resolved if you had

[33:14] simply approached the town before you

[33:16] did did it.

[33:18] >> We were told

[33:19] to apply for

[33:24] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean,

[33:27] >> I know. I know. I know. I'm just saying,

[33:30] you know, welcome to Springdale. But,

[33:32] uh, but the thing of it is is what Jim

[33:34] is Jim Jim is trying to find a way to

[33:36] make. I'm uncomfortable with it. Is if

[33:41] we make an exception here, then then

[33:43] we're in the position of the next

[33:45] business who has a similar issue. Why

[33:48] aren't we making an exception for them?

[33:50] Yeah, it it happens all the time

[33:52] >> and it's kind of on the town that I I

[33:55] noticed catching up with my email

[33:57] yesterday that we now have a hey, are

[33:59] you thinking of putting a mural on your

[34:01] is this in in the town newsletter, which

[34:03] is like okay, good. Um, and I

[34:07] >> So, am I correct that there was nothing

[34:09] on my business application

[34:12] regarding murals?

[34:13] >> Yeah, there wouldn't have been.

[34:14] >> There was not. And I was just going to I

[34:17] was just going to guess that probably

[34:18] there will be one added moving forward.

[34:21] >> Plus, on the window coverings, I'm

[34:23] pretty sure there's plenty of windows

[34:26] out there that are covered 25% or more.

[34:31] >> There's plenty of them.

[34:33] >> So, can I I I was listening to the last

[34:36] thing that you read. Um what was the is

[34:40] the term window covering or is there a

[34:42] different term used? Um,

[34:45] >> it's called window signs.

[34:46] >> Window signs. And then this, so I I keep

[34:50] sliding back to functionality. If this

[34:53] were a curtain, would we be having this

[34:56] conversation? A curtain on the other

[34:57] side of the glass,

[35:00] >> you know?

[35:00] >> Yeah. Perhaps not.

[35:01] >> Yeah. And that's that's where I feel

[35:03] like there's just it just happened to

[35:05] touch the glass which touches the

[35:07] outside of the building and here we all

[35:08] are. And um there's back to her high

[35:13] level view of what does that whole area

[35:15] look like in terms of signage and and

[35:18] we're going to take issue here. And I

[35:20] totally get the the quandry. I totally

[35:23] get it. And and yet I think we're

[35:25] throwing the baby out with the bathwater

[35:27] here um without finding some way through

[35:30] here that also fixes the future and

[35:33] maybe doesn't kick it back to the town.

[35:35] Because I hear Jim, as much as I agree

[35:37] with you, I hear

[35:39] the town saying

[35:41] >> we do not want to do that.

[35:42] >> They're saying they don't want to make

[35:43] an exception.

[35:44] >> No, they're saying they don't want us to

[35:46] kick it back. They want us to decide

[35:48] this today and I think so do all we

[35:51] >> But I guess a question for you Nile is

[35:54] if this we deny it today as a mural.

[35:58] >> Is this can this qualify as a window

[36:00] tent?

[36:04] So

[36:06] yeah, I mean we we we'd have to look at

[36:09] as a as a window sign, which doesn't

[36:12] actually require a permit for a window

[36:14] sign. Um

[36:18] so

[36:19] >> but it's covering 25% or more.

[36:24] >> And it's not serving as an ad well it

[36:28] may double but its main purpose was to

[36:30] cover up a window. I think for just in

[36:33] the essence, you know, interest of time,

[36:36] um I think we probably need to move

[36:38] forward and treat this as a mural and

[36:40] then what happens beyond this as far as

[36:44] whether that stays or or you're just

[36:46] going to have to do something else. I

[36:47] think that's probably another

[36:49] conversation.

[36:54] So, yeah, I think there's a few things.

[36:56] Um,

[36:59] yeah, if you determine that it's not a

[37:01] sign, then we can look back on the

[37:05] take a look at the signage chapter of

[37:08] the code and see again if it complies

[37:12] with that or if there's kind of a way

[37:14] that it could stay under that. Um

[37:20] if you wanted to change the policy um we can we can look at that

[37:28] in a subsequent meeting. Um,

[37:36] so yeah, I I think there's

[37:38] >> Can we vote to say that it's not Can we

[37:41] all say we don't think this is a mural

[37:43] and kick it back to you? As much as I

[37:45] hear that you don't want to do that?

[37:47] >> Yeah.

[37:47] >> I'd like to make a motion.

[37:49] >> I I I think you could do that if if you

[37:51] felt it wasn't a mural and then we would

[37:53] work with them on the signage front.

[37:55] full motion, but I'm still not clear on

[37:57] where we um stand on the advertising and

[38:01] the verbiage. Sounds like you're against

[38:02] it. I'm against it. I don't know about

[38:05] >> I actually

[38:06] >> Well, but what if three say it's okay?

[38:10] That's I'm I'm still unclear where we

[38:12] are

[38:13] >> talking signage. Mike, I I I think what

[38:17] we're trying to do is move on with this

[38:19] because we have a heavy agenda. Uh, and

[38:22] so, uh, I agree with you on the signage.

[38:26] I think they've been pretty strict about

[38:28] signage and, uh, so I will wait and hear

[38:33] whatever motion is made. If I were to

[38:35] make a motion, I would make a motion

[38:37] that this not be considered a mural and

[38:40] that it be sent back to the the city.

[38:45] >> So, let's hear your motion.

[38:46] >> Yes, please.

[38:49] Um

[38:55] it's u

[38:58] the art review board uh conditionally

[39:00] improves

[39:02] um the mural at the Iceberg Drive in 849

[39:04] Z Park Boulevard based on the following

[39:07] findings and additional conditions

[39:09] findings. The mural does promote and

[39:12] enhance the town's village character.

[39:16] The installation is classed as a mural

[39:18] rather than a window sign and complies

[39:19] with applicable size and dimension

[39:21] standards for a mural.

[39:26] A majority of the colors do contain

[39:30] colors shown on the town's color palette

[39:33] for buildings and structures and other

[39:35] less significant colors are compatible

[39:37] with the existing and built surroundings

[39:39] of the site.

[39:42] The mural is not eliminated or backlit

[39:45] and is compliant with town policy. The

[39:48] mural contains advertising which is

[39:50] non-compliant with town policy.

[39:53] As a conditional approval, the following

[39:55] additional conditions are required.

[39:59] The applicant must continue to prevent

[40:00] any backlight transmission from inside

[40:02] the building and acknowledge that no

[40:04] illumination of the mural surface is

[40:06] permitted.

[40:08] The applicant shall remove all

[40:10] references to Zion, Iceberg, Drive-In,

[40:12] Advertising, etc. from the mural and the

[40:16] applicant must acknowledge the

[40:17] responsibility to maintain the mural per

[40:20] section 10-20-13 of town code. So that's

[40:24] strictly it's a mural.

[40:28] » So then I'd like to hear Kathy's motion.

[40:34] » I make a motion that Um,

[40:39] >> the art review. Well, this would be if I

[40:41] made a motion,

[40:42] >> right?

[40:43] >> I would make a

[40:44] >> This one's on the floor.

[40:46] >> Go ahead.

[40:47] >> I would change your motion to say

[40:49] >> you can amend it

[40:50] >> that the art review board has determined

[40:53] that this is not a mural and it's more

[40:55] of a window covering and should be

[40:58] addressed through a different agency

[41:00] with the town.

[41:02] >> I'll second that motion.

[41:03] >> Well, you can't yet because I'm just

[41:05] talking about that. But Mike doesn't

[41:06] have a second on his motion.

[41:09] >> Hasn't been voted on.

[41:11] >> Um, and you know,

[41:13] >> if it fails, then we go another route.

[41:15] That's the way it works.

[41:19] >> So, if it doesn't have a second, then it

[41:21] fails. And then you would do another

[41:23] motion,

[41:24] >> correct? It either fails or it stands

[41:27] without a second.

[41:28] >> Yeah.

[41:29] >> Although I really agree with the motion

[41:30] that you just made.

[41:32] >> But other than it's not a mural.

[41:34] >> Yeah.

[41:36] Just trying to make not a small piece.

[41:39] >> Jack, you would have to say the motion

[41:41] fails because of a second and then

[41:43] Kathy's would come up.

[41:44] >> Kathy seconded,

[41:46] I believe.

[41:48] >> No.

[41:48] >> Oh, you didn't.

[41:49] >> But he hasn't have a second.

[41:50] >> Okay. Then call for a second.

[41:56] >> There is none.

[41:58] >> So the motion that Mike made has failed.

[42:02] Do we have another motion? like to make

[42:04] a motion that the art review board has

[42:07] determined that the application from

[42:10] Iceberg with respect to the image that

[42:16] was placed on their window is not in

[42:19] fact a mural

[42:21] and is determined to be more of a window

[42:24] covering

[42:26] >> as opposed to a mural. window ad

[42:30] >> as opposed to a window ad or a mural.

[42:35] >> I second that motion.

[42:37] >> All in favor?

[42:38] >> I

[42:41] >> No,

[42:44] the motion passes too.

[42:46] >> I just Sorry, Nile. [laughter]

[42:49] >> Yours is much more

[42:51] >> trying to make it work and we're going

[42:52] to be here. I know 12 more windows

[42:54] coming.

[42:56] >> I know. So let's make sure moving

[42:58] forward we're not

[42:59] >> we identify calling

[43:01] >> well by calling this

[43:02] >> treatments murals.

[43:04] >> We they won't come here if they're not

[43:06] murals

[43:07] >> and and and also to Nyla and now I talk

[43:11] talked about this the last time we

[43:12] really need to get out to business

[43:15] owners and the community

[43:18] the mural policy. It was in the last

[43:22] newsletter. There was a

[43:23] >> It was okay. Good. Because then there

[43:25] isn't any questions because what we're

[43:27] doing is having to look at this after

[43:30] the fact. Someone does something and

[43:32] then they didn't go through the process

[43:34] and then here we are, you know, making

[43:37] decisions when if it was that if an

[43:40] application was made, we get the

[43:42] application. We we can look at it. We

[43:45] can see it. We can make any suggestions

[43:48] prior to it being done. and businesses

[43:52] and and even homeowners if they're going

[43:53] to do murals, they need to know what it

[43:55] is. So, I would again I'm glad it was uh

[43:59] published and so uh you know I just

[44:03] can't hate to see us keep going over the

[44:05] same thing over and someone does

[44:07] something and then we're So, anyway,

[44:10] >> we're all in agreement.

[44:13] >> Sorry you guys.

[44:17] >> Okay.

[44:19] Thank you for your patience.

[44:26] » Well, thank you for coming

[44:28] >> and again, welcome to Springdale.

[44:29] >> Yeah, the next step here

[44:33] with Nile now.

[44:34] >> Yeah. So, I think um let I I will touch

[44:38] base with you both on kind of what that

[44:41] means and we'll go from there.

[44:45] >> Thank you.

[44:46] >> Have a good rest of your day.

[44:48] Okay. Uh, so the next item on our

[44:51] agenda, this is a non-action item. Uh,

[44:54] this is going to be a work workshop

[44:56] session of Springdale's draft public art

[45:00] plan. And Nile, do you want to get us

[45:03] started on that?

[45:04] >> Yeah, thank you. So

[45:07] for this uh this section of the agenda,

[45:10] I thought it would be useful to have

[45:13] more of a workshop session to to um yeah

[45:18] push forward the public art plan. So

[45:21] what I've created, it's a little bit

[45:24] middle school art project, but bear with

[45:26] me. Um at the back of the room, I've got

[45:29] some um some questions for you to

[45:34] consider. some material for you to look

[45:37] at. I'd like to get your thoughts down

[45:39] on paper. Um, so it's it'll be kind of a

[45:45] just an opportunity for you to kind of

[45:46] move around uh discuss it in a more kind

[45:50] of flexible way. Um, so I think we're

[45:53] going to transition into a different

[45:55] sort of part of the meeting where the

[45:59] we won't have a recording because it'll

[46:01] be just a workshop session. So, if you

[46:05] want to come over here and we can we can

[46:07] get started on that. Once we're finished

[46:10] with this, we'll come back to the DAS for you to conclude the

[46:15] meeting.

[46:17] >> Okay. We could just have a couple

[46:19] minutes before we start. I just wanted

[46:21] to really thank Jim for the work that

[46:24] you've done to kickstart this.

[46:27] >> I had a fun time doing it and artist.

[46:29] I'm not Lisa's the artist. Jack, you're

[46:32] the artist. I just have a fun time. So, it was

[46:36] >> I had a good time doing it

[46:38] >> and I you can take it. I I you're not

[46:42] going to hurt my feelings if you go,

[46:43] "Oh, no." But I also spoke with one of

[46:46] my neighbors, um, and I think maybe Mike

[46:49] knows her, uh, Linda Barnes, and she was

[46:51] an art teacher, and, uh, she said she'd

[46:55] help out with any artwork because

[46:57] obviously

[46:58] I like art, but my skills are limited,

[47:02] [laughter]

[47:03] to put it mildly,

[47:06] >> but I had fun.

[47:08] >> Thank you.

[47:09] >> So, um, front page for me. Um, and

[47:14] again, this is no offense. You I'd like

[47:16] it to have a real professional look. Um,

[47:19] I did reach out to Willa Marie Hules

[47:21] Camp. You reached out to Linda Barnes. I

[47:23] think there are a number of artists in

[47:25] the community that could create

[47:27] something that would tie into the

[47:29] Springdale logo feel, you know, a little

[47:32] bit more on the professional. This kind

[47:34] of ties into some of the murals and

[47:36] things that kids have done. Um, the

[47:40] verbiage that you picked for the front

[47:42] page, it's fantastic. I like the words.

[47:46] I I I think it's great. Um, you know,

[47:50] we're going to go do a work session. You

[47:52] know, there were some typos or things.

[47:54] Um, your your introduction and I went

[47:57] back and I read the master plan for

[47:59] Ivans again, which I think is a great

[48:01] working document, but needs to be

[48:03] changed. And just that beginning

[48:05] introduction, I changed to say

[48:08] Springdale is the gateway community to

[48:09] Zion National Park. We welcome over 5

[48:12] million visitors each year. While we are

[48:14] hosts to so many visitors, we also we

[48:18] are also a community that is home for

[48:20] over 500 people. We are surrounded by

[48:22] the Closian National Park, an amazing

[48:25] natural art display in itself. In

[48:28] addition to the natural beauty that

[48:29] surrounds the town of Springdale, the

[48:31] town has a long history of supporting

[48:33] the arts through public art

[48:34] installations. And then it goes right

[48:37] into what Jim wrote. Public art has the

[48:40] power to transform spaces, inspire

[48:42] residents, attract visitors, and reflect

[48:44] the unique character and history of our

[48:46] town. Springdale's general plan seeks to

[48:48] promote the town as an art community.

[48:51] This plan identified identifies the

[48:54] types of lo types of locations where

[48:57] public art should be encouraged and how

[48:59] the town will administer its art

[49:02] program.

[49:03] After we do what you guys have set for

[49:06] us, I'd like to share with everybody

[49:08] some images of art by a local artist,

[49:11] uh, Megan Cox. she works with metal and

[49:14] we had talked about um that kind of

[49:17] identified that front circle coming into

[49:20] Springdale as maybe one of the high

[49:22] priorities for a piece of public art. I

[49:24] had a conversation with Megan Cox. I

[49:26] asked her to send some images because I

[49:30] like what she does. She's been in this

[49:32] community for decades.

[49:34] >> She currently doesn't live in Springdale

[49:35] just because she can't afford it and

[49:37] shouldn't be penalized because she has

[49:39] and she's worked here.

[49:41] >> Um and Rock Rockville or Virgin.

[49:44] >> She's she bounces where she can find a

[49:46] home.

[49:47] >> Um

[49:47] >> and she's still a local is my point.

[49:49] >> Yeah. And um going back to some of that

[49:53] great public art that is along the

[49:55] freeways in Las Vegas and looking at you

[50:00] know the possibility of like a male

[50:02] female to infant big horn sheep in kind

[50:06] of that 3D metal fullcale height but not

[50:11] full scale body. And you know, I I asked

[50:15] her also because we're talking about an

[50:17] annual budget of 8,000 and um I said,

[50:20] "Is that could you produce that type of

[50:21] art for eight?"

[50:22] >> Well, we're hoping for more.

[50:24] >> Yeah. And she said that would be a

[50:26] struggle, you know, but I would love to

[50:28] do the project.

[50:29] >> Well, we're hoping for more moving

[50:31] forward.

[50:32] >> Okay. So, so let's let's deal first with

[50:34] the meat of this plan and and I think,

[50:37] you know, it's it's certainly coming in

[50:39] more and more into focus and then what

[50:41] it looks like visually. Then let's have

[50:44] a whole conversation on that as well.

[50:46] >> Yeah. And I think

[50:48] I mean I like this group. I like these

[50:50] meetings, but you know there's a better

[50:53] faster way to do this. Um what's our

[50:55] mission? What's our goals? You know what

[50:57] bullets do we want in this thing? We're

[50:59] diving down into specific pieces of art.

[51:01] No. No, no, no. We're We're way above

[51:04] that. I think we should be.

[51:06] >> Well, let's let's see what he's got.

[51:08] Yeah.

[51:08] >> Can I do ask it? So, for all of the

[51:11] effort that you put in here, it it

[51:13] prompted me to seek clarity. We are

[51:15] we're not Springdale City. I know that

[51:18] town of Springdale or Springdale town

[51:20] when when we're putting town of

[51:21] Springdale. That's what I thought. So,

[51:23] Jim, town of Springdale, not Springdale

[51:26] City.

[51:26] >> Okay. [laughter] Okay.

[51:29] while you're putting in so much. We

[51:31] wanted to go in

07/06/2026 Art Review Board Special Meeting

Transcript