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[8:42] [paper rustling]

[8:48] I'm going to call the September 21st, 2026, St. Clair Shore City Council.

[8:50] meeting to order. Abby, please call the roll.

[8:53] Mayor Walby? Here.

[8:55] Council member Burges? Here.

[8:57] Council member Karen? Here.

[8:59] Council member Frederick? Present.

[9:01] Council member Rubelo? Here.

[9:03] Council member Roosey? Here.

[9:05] Council member Vitali? Here.

[9:07] A quorum is present.

[9:08] Please rise for the pledge.

[9:09] [shuffle]

[9:11] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,

[9:16] and to the republic for which it stands,

[9:19] one nation under God, indivisible,

[9:22] with liberty and justice for all.

[9:24] [shuffle]

[9:27] [sound]

[9:32] Item two is proclamations

[9:33] and presentations.

[9:35] We have a uh a number of uh proclamations,

[9:37] actually seven of 'em.

[9:39] But we have a a presentation from uh our state rep.

[9:41] Uh, Alicia St. Germain, come on up.

[9:43] I know she's going to give us some

[9:45] legislative updates, so thank you for coming.

[9:47] Thank you.

[9:49] [paper rustling]

[9:52] Well, thank you for having me.

[9:54] Uh, my name is Alicia St. Germain, and I'm the state representative

[9:57] uh for this district. My district...

[10:00] goes from say 21 and a half mile in Chesterfield to

[10:04] 12 mile in the shores. A little bit of Roseville,

[10:08] Um, so thanks. Um, I just wanted to give what I call a mini legislative update. All good stuff though.

[10:15] Um, I am the vice chair of natural resources, which is happens to be my favorite committee.

[10:20] Education, I said an education, health and economic competitiveness.

[10:26] Um, so I just want to go over some bills that have passed the house with strong bipartisan support, just some of them.

[10:32] Uh, the first one is what I call the muck bill.

[10:36] Um, and I'm sure everybody's heard of the M-wall-eye or the muck

[10:39] that's consuming some of our shore lines.

[10:42] Um, what this bill would do is it would simply remove the red tape

[10:47] so that a property owner can hire a contractor to to clean up the muck.

[10:53] I don't think that you should have to get a permit through the state to clean up your yard or or front yard.

[10:59] So that's what the muck bill does. Um, every bill that I seem to introduce has a nickname, so bear with me here.

[11:06] Uh, the second one, um, I call it the brown alert.

[11:10] If if we're familiar with um some of the combined sewage overflows

[11:16] from Oakland County into Macomb County waterways,

[11:20] what the brown alert would do is it would notify residents of an area

[11:25] when dangerous levels of E coli water are discharged into that water.

[11:31] So people know, don't go kayaking on the Clinton River

[11:34] for 24 hours, 48 hours, whatever that might be.

[11:39] Um, another bill, it's what I call the first responders protection bill.

[11:45] Uh, what that does is it creates a halo, so to speak,

[11:49] around a first responder so that they could do their job effectively.

[11:53] So, in other words, just there to protect our, um,

[11:58] first responders from getting injured and allows them to do their job without interference.

[12:04] Um, another one, uh, Marina protection bill.

[12:08] So, we're surrounding, we're in the nautical mile, right? We're surrounded by beautiful marinas, lots and lots of boats.

[12:15] What this bill does is if a boat is abandoned

[12:18] on a Marina property,

[12:22] it allows that Marina after so many months of unpaid, um, invoices,

[12:30] allows the Marina to start the lean process.

[12:33] so that they can remove the boat or, you know, contact the bank,

[12:37] um, boat owner, whatever that might be.

[12:40] Um, so it, uh, helps our Marina stay clean

[12:45] and, um, protects our Marina business owners.

[12:50] Um, the fifth bill, this one I'm pretty proud of.

[12:54] Um, I call this the golf cart bill. And, um, what it does

[13:00] is it it simply allows municipalities the authority

[13:03] to create an ordinance if they so wish,

[13:06] to allow golf carts in a in the municipality

[13:10] or in a certain section.

[13:13] Uh, I think we've seen in St. Clair Shores where, um,

[13:18] well, Jefferson, I was coming down Jefferson and I don't know what happened.

[13:22] I was all over the place trying to make my way here.

[13:26] [Another speaker] We're trying to improve the roads.

[13:28] No, I'm all over. I was glad. I was just, uh, it's tough.

[13:33] I haven't been this way in a while. Actually it's my husband's fault

[13:37] because he does take Jefferson all the way to Detroit there every day for work

[13:41] and he didn't tell me, so it's his fault.

[13:44] Um, but yeah, you know, there's certain situations where, you know, let's just say,

[13:50] you know, you have all these boat owners and they just want to get from Marina to Marina.

[13:55] I I think the city in coordination with the people that live here

[14:01] and the police department create their own ordinance that fits their needs.

[14:05] I I don't believe that the state should dictate to every municipality

[14:09] how they conduct their business. So,

[14:13] Um, the good news with that bill is it will signed into law in July,

[14:18] and it's my very first bill that I passed.

[14:22] Um, I didn't get one of those fancy pens from the governor yet,

[14:25] but I'm counting on it soon.

[14:28] Um, other projects that are underway. Um, I'm proud to say that I secured

[14:34] $2 million for water infrastructure.

[14:37] And if you haven't noticed, water and water and water infrastructure and boats are kind of my thing.

[14:43] So, um, I'm working with the Macomb County public works

[14:47] and coordinating where that money should be spent for,

[14:51] uh, water cleanup and and canal, not canals, uh,

[14:57] waterways, um, man-

[14:59] will cover things that like that.

[15:01] So, um, you know, our water infrastructure

[15:04] along with our roads is very, very important.

[15:07] Um, muck mitigation,

[15:09] this is Um,

[15:12] uh, you know, I'm proud to say that we have been working on

[15:15] all levels with our Macomb County Public Works,

[15:18] Candace Meller, uh, my office, Senator Hertel,

[15:22] uh, Eagle, DNR, Army Core and um,

[15:28] so we're well underway, underway of cleaning up the muck and some

[15:32] of the uh, there's three different locations that were chosen as a

[15:35] chosen as a uh, this is a test trial.

[15:39] So, uh, the three locations are

[15:41] just south of the Clinton River,

[15:43] which is where I call Freedom Boat Club or

[15:46] um, what's that? Oh, I call it Lance Cruise Bay,

[15:49] but I think I'm wrong with that.

[15:51] beach.

[15:52] Yeah, you might be right.

[15:53] You're probably right, you're right there.

[15:56] Um, and then Hidden Cove, uh, Conominium,

[15:59] um, and then uh, or our Beach right here, Memorial Beach. So,

[16:07] What we're going to do is uh, remove the muck

[16:10] and then figure out ways how we can treat it.

[16:13] Um, and this is going to it's going to be an ongoing thing,

[16:17] you know, it's going to take a lot of work on all levels

[16:19] to figure this out.

[16:21] So, um, I'm I'm pretty confident that if other states are

[16:24] successful, I think Michigan can be too.

[16:29] especially with the right people that are so passionate about

[16:32] our, you know, beautiful Lake St. Clair.

[16:35] Uh, Cormarat.

[16:38] Um, what is a Cormarat, some of you might be thinking.

[16:43] Um, it's a blackbird, it's a federally protected bird.

[16:45] They're they're actually quite large.

[16:50] Um, they're migratory.

[16:53] Um, this is the problem with them. They're there's a lot of 'em.

[16:56] more than ever on our Lake St. Clair.

[17:00] Their droppings, aka their poop,

[17:03] kills every tree vegetation that they nest on.

[17:06] So they're very destructive to our landscape and our

[17:09] natural resources.

[17:12] They they kill everything that they nest under.

[17:16] Um, more importantly, they eat one and a half pounds

[17:20] of fish per day per bird.

[17:23] Um, and that equals about 80 million pounds

[17:25] of fish per year.

[17:29] I never I didn't realize, you know, their population or how

[17:34] bad they were for our environment.

[17:39] I it was one of those things,

[17:41] I'm walking through Metro Beach.

[17:43] I don't know if anybody's been through Metro Beach lately.

[17:45] I've seen it. I've seen it. It's incredible.

[17:47] Yeah, there's an island there. It's called Dog Island.

[17:49] And it is completely just bare trees.

[17:53] Nothing that can live lives underneath it.

[17:56] That that's so destructive they are.

[17:59] Um, they're loud and um,

[18:01] they're they're just uh, they're a real nuisance.

[18:06] Um, I've been boating on this like my entire life,

[18:08] uh, not long ago I was on on the boat

[18:11] on the way to Zafs there.

[18:15] and um, I noticed they're right here, that's Island Harbor too.

[18:22] and their droppings are so acidic that they even

[18:25] it even kills like wood on

[18:28] our our historic lighthouses and things like that. So,

[18:32] um, but to see that many of them in the middle of the lake,

[18:35] knowing that they're eating that many fish, that's a problem.

[18:40] Um, I don't want these birds to be so overpopulated

[18:45] that it wipes out our fishing industry, and and it can, it has.

[18:51] Um, up in Lake Huron, um, those birds, the Cormorant birds

[18:56] nearly destroyed the birch population

[18:58] back in the late 1900s.

[19:01] So, we don't want that to happen here, and I've been

[19:04] working all, you know, all hands on deck.

[19:06] Um, proud to say that I secured 500,000

[19:10] and working with the DNR so that we can control

[19:13] their population, not eradicate them, just control

[19:16] so they're that there's not so many of them.

[19:20] Um, you know, I don't want there to be a day where kids are

[19:24] fishing on the Blossom Heath Pier and wondering where all

[19:26] the darn fish are, you know,

[19:28] we don't want that to happen. So,

[19:31] Um, the DNR have been super supportive.

[19:34] They were actually very excited that I reached out to them

[19:37] and said, hey, what are we doing, you know?

[19:40] So, uh, you know, they had to get a federal permit

[19:43] to be able to uh, do the things to control their population.

[19:50] you know, I'm definitely more of a problem solver than talker

[19:55] and um, you know, I'm going to continue to work.

[19:59] what state, local, federal,

[20:01] and um, the things that I can control.

[20:04] Unfortunately, I can't control the gas prices.

[20:06] I wish I could, but

[20:07] I shouldn't have said that.

[20:10] [laughter]

[20:11] Probably a bad topic. Um,

[20:14] um, but

[20:15] that is all I have.

[20:17] I just want to thank everybody for having me and I'll stick around.

[20:20] I did bring flyers too if anybody wants any more

[20:23] information on those cormorant birds.

[20:25] So,

[20:26] um, but birds, muck, Lake St. Clair, boats, those are all my thing.

[20:31] So thank you for having me. Yeah,

[20:32] we appreciate your your effort specifically on the lake and

[20:36] helping to keep the lake clean.

[20:37] And we know we have some of the problems with sometimes the

[20:40] other county and I know you've been great in Lansing helping us.

[20:42] So we really we really appreciate.

[20:43] We speak on behalf of the city to thank you for the work on uh the

[20:46] CSO's and the lake clean.

[20:48] Yeah. I'm confident we will get there one day.

[20:50] You know, my kids, I have a 25 and 23 year old, but the

[20:53] 25 year old lives here in the shores.

[20:56] I didn't I grew up in Roseville.

[20:58] But uh, uh, I married my husband 32 years now.

[21:03] Uh he's a shore, Lake Shore, you know.

[21:06] Um, so I've uh, have a lot of roots in St. Clair Shores.

[21:11] You know, my my father-in-law retired from the police department.

[21:15] Uh, he was one of the founders of cops for kids.

[21:18] Right. I'm as old enough to say that I used to my husband and I

[21:22] worked the telethon.

[21:23] Oh yeah, some of you might not know what a telethon is.

[21:26] I was part of the telethon, you too. Right.

[21:29] Um, I remember the dating yourself a little bit.

[21:31] Yeah, I know, right?

[21:33] I remember the days uh the tug of war, you know, the cops for kids

[21:38] tug of war, um, events and things like that.

[21:41] Um, they were held behind the Coast Guard station and we

[21:44] swam there on that beach.

[21:46] Back in the day, I know I'm dating myself, but

[21:49] [laughter]

[21:51] But yeah, St. Clair Shores is near and dear and

[21:53] you know, um, thank you so much for having me.

[21:55] appreciate it. Thank you.

[21:57] [applause]

[22:03] We'll head into the uh, presentations. We'll start with

[22:06] the beautification awards.

[22:07] Uh residential and business and Mr. Kieran. Kieran.

[22:11] go down here and we'll we'll start with the beautification.

[22:13] I think he has some slides first and then we'll do the uh

[22:16] residential.

[22:17] We have one here and one actually next meeting and then we'll do

[22:19] the businesses.

[22:21] [tapping]

[22:24] All right. goes.

[22:27] So good evening, everyone.

[22:28] So, um, every year, uh, Beautification Commission goes out and uh, surveys the city

[22:32] looking for businesses and households, uh, to grant beautification awards.

[22:36] Um, and so we always do these at the uh, third Monday meeting

[22:40] here in September.

[22:42] And so first, just kind of go through what the beautification

[22:44] commission does.

[22:46] Uh, they manage a lot of flower beds all throughout the city.

[22:49] We're talking city entrance signs, flower beds, and our parks in major rightaways,

[22:54] um, landscape pots that are located in various locations.

[22:59] Um, all sorts of great work that they do throughout the

[23:01] entire community.

[23:03] And it is literally starts, you know, pretty much from April

[23:08] to start doing the initial spring cleanup, get the beds

[23:12] all prepped, ready for planting, goes into fall decorations and

[23:16] then even um, at Christmas time, they put out wreaths and all the

[23:20] city signs as well that light up in many locations.

[23:23] So a very tireless group of people. So if we want to go

[23:25] to the next slide.

[23:27] So this is thefication commission and I know I got several members

[23:29] here tonight.

[23:31] And see Diana Lintz is back there, that's our treasure.

[23:34] Mary Ann Motika is over here.

[23:37] Um, Lynn Brown, and Lil Claycomb, is our chairperson.

[23:41] So, um, thank you for all the commission members that are able

[23:44] to come out here tonight.

[23:45] And a special thanks to uh, especially Lynn, um,

[23:47] in terms of going through all the beautification awards and

[23:51] managing this whole process for us this year.

[23:53] Um, so it's a really is a tireless group of people.

[23:56] No knowing the members, but also several volunteers that we have.

[24:00] And so if anyone is interested, we're always looking for volunteers.

[24:03] You can see Lil here at the end of the meeting and uh, she will

[24:07] definitely put you to work somewhere in the city.

[24:10] So, um, but an absolute awesome group of people that we have.

[24:14] And quite frankly, I've been on it for 15 years now with them.

[24:18] A lot of the members I started with 15 years ago are still there.

[24:21] Um, so it's a very stable, dedicated group of people that

[24:24] we have that uh, does all this great work around the city.

[24:28] And also the sex one, we have a lot of great businesses that help

[24:31] us out.

[24:32] Um, you know, in terms of halls, well, Hall's nursery still helps us, you know, they're located

[24:38] over on uh, on uh, industrial drive now versus their old location.

[24:42] They still help us with wreath every year and bows and all

[24:45] sorts of good work.

[24:46] Um, landscape services is definitely, um, very active

[24:50] with our group.

[24:51] especially since now Paul's sister, Mary is now on the

[24:54] commission.

[24:55] Bonus for us.

[24:56] Um, so years landscape.

[24:58] taping over on Little Mac, great supporter of ours.

[25:01] And as well as First State Bank in the spring.

[25:04] All the red tulips that start popping up all around the city.

[25:06] The bulk of those are all donated by First State Bank over many years.

[25:10] And Lil makes sure she gets a new bunch every single year from them.

[25:14] They look forward to seeing her.

[25:16] each fall to make sure she gets those uh so we get those planted.

[25:18] So they're all ready for spring.

[25:20] So with that,

[25:22] I'll go to the next one.

[25:23] Mary, you want to do the residential award?

[25:25] Again, we have one, uh we had two, we have one today and one at

[25:28] the next meeting.

[25:29] Pam and Bob Mason, come on up here.

[25:31] [applause]

[25:36] Good evening, how are you? Good, how are you?

[25:38] Very good, thank you.

[25:39] Uh, they have a beautiful home there and there it is, uh up there.

[25:42] It's in the north end of St. Clair Shores, just off of 12 mile there

[25:45] and Glorious Street.

[25:46] Uh, beautiful front and back home.

[25:48] Uh, really an oasis almost, I guess I could say, uh with the pool

[25:52] and everything else.

[25:54] So, we will um, read your proclamation. So,

[25:58] 2026 beautification award, Pamela, Pam and Bob Mason.

[26:03] Whereas the Mayor and Council of the City of St. Clair Shores on behalf

[26:05] of the Beautification Commission,

[26:07] deemed it fitting and proper to publicly recognize the outstanding

[26:10] efforts made by individuals in helping to beautify our neighborhoods

[26:13] and maintain the image of our city.

[26:17] Pam and Bob have displayed community spirit and willingness to enhance

[26:20] the beauty of their property, which demonstrates a strong sense

[26:23] of civic pride.

[26:26] Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Mayor and Council of the City of

[26:29] St. Clair Shores, on behalf of our citizens,

[26:32] deemed it an honor and a pleasure to extend our congratulations to

[26:36] Pam and Bob Mason on receiving the 2026 beautification award.

[26:42] Congratulations.

[26:44] [applause] Job well done.

[26:45] [applause]

[26:56] Again, it was a, it's a beautiful home.

[26:57] We, we, we appreciate what you do for the neighborhood.

[27:00] You make the, make the whole street look much better.

[27:02] So again, thank you so much for being an award winner.

[27:06] We appreciate it. Thank you.

[27:07] [applause]

[27:15] And next up we have um, the one of the business award winners?

[27:19] And I want to go to I'm bring up Katie Dom,

[27:21] who is with Motor City Design Works over on Jefferson.

[27:26] So first read your proclamation here.

[27:29] I'm getting like the mirror.

[27:32] Or else Abby put these in smaller print.

[27:34] I think she put them in smaller print, by the way.

[27:37] Whereas the Mayor and City Council of City of St. Clair Shores, on

[27:40] behalf of the Education Commission, deemed it fitting and proper to

[27:43] publicly recognize the outstanding efforts made by commercial

[27:46] businesses in helping to beautify our business districts and maintain

[27:48] the image of our city.

[27:50] Whereas Motor City Design Works has displayed community spirit and a

[27:53] willingness to enhance the beauty of its property, which demonstrates a

[27:56] strong sense of civic pride.

[27:59] Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Mayor and City Council of the

[28:02] City of St. Clair Shores, on behalf of our citizens, deemed it an honor

[28:05] and a pleasure to extend our congratulations to Motor City Design

[28:07] Works 2026 business beautification award winner.

[28:12] [applause]

[28:23] [laughter]

[28:26] Congratulations, thank you. Job well done.

[28:28] just want to just check out her beautiful property there in Jefferson.

[28:31] Um, we did a taping for uh the Council Connection show.

[28:35] And it's amazing what she turned basically what would have been an old

[28:38] gas station way back when into.

[28:41] Um, from the inside and outside.

[28:43] Wonderful job and thank you for all the hard work you did in your property.

[28:47] Greatly appreciate it.

[28:49] And with that, I do not see anyone from Mark Yori Catering.

[28:53] Nope, so we'll try to bring them back at the next meeting here.

[28:56] Okay, yep, okay. All right.

[28:58] again, thank you for all the beautification uh commission

[29:01] members for all your hard work.

[29:02] And again, if anyone's interested in helping out, there are plenty of

[29:05] volunteer opportunities throughout the year.

[29:08] Um is a great group of people to get involved with and help out your city.

[29:12] So again, thank you everybody.

[29:14] Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you, Councilman.

[29:16] [applause]

[29:29] The next one is St. Paul's Lutheran Church.

[29:31] 100th anniversary proclamation we did there last Thursday, we were

[29:34] over there for uh the historical marker, I know.

[29:36] Come on up.

[29:37] We had I think we had a pretty good contingent.

[29:39] I know they don't have a pastor, I believe currently, but they have a

[29:42] a strong membership over there.

[29:44] So, come on up.

[29:50] Good evening, how are you?

[29:53] Good evening.

[29:54] Most of you I I saw at the historical marker that that is now.

[29:58] sitting there greater Mac right on the corner colony.

[30:00] Come on up line up here.

[30:03] Big group here. What are you? How are you? Fantastic.

[30:07] Well, hello. Hello.

[30:10] All right.

[30:11] Is anyone going to speak? I'll I'll read.

[30:13] Does anyone want to say a few words?

[30:15] I was just going to say thank you.

[30:16] Oh.

[30:18] All right, well, let me read this and then you can say thank you.

[30:20] If anyone else.

[30:23] Proclamation to St. Paul's Lutheran

[30:24] Church in honor of its 100th anniversary.

[30:28] Whereas the American Council,

[30:29] the city of St. Clair Shores wish to

[30:30] acknowledge and honor St. Paul's

[30:32] Lutheran Church in celebration of its

[30:34] 100th anniversary.

[30:36] St. Paul Lutheran Church dedicated its

[30:39] first church building at its current

[30:41] location in October 1926.

[30:44] The present church building located at

[30:46] 22915 Great Mack, that's just

[30:49] on the south end, just a little bit

[30:51] past the post office there, a little south.

[30:53] was constructed in 1956 and continues

[30:56] to host worship services every Sunday

[30:59] and on holidays to which all are welcome.

[31:03] St. Paul Church throughout its history,

[31:05] St. Paul Church has been involved has

[31:07] been a valued community partner by

[31:09] providing space for municipal elections

[31:11] and hosting numerous community groups and activities.

[31:14] It has been blessed with dedicated men

[31:16] and women of their congregation who

[31:18] sponsor an annual baby shower to assist

[31:21] Compassion Pregnancy Center in Clinton

[31:24] Township, providing prenatal services

[31:26] and support post delivery to mothers,

[31:29] as well as supporting an annual giving

[31:30] tree at Christmas, assisting Lighthouse

[31:33] Outreach, Detroit Rescue Mission

[31:35] Ministries, in providing Christmas gifts

[31:38] to families in need.

[31:40] Whereas the women of the congregation

[31:42] host a rummage sale each spring and fall,

[31:44] offering clothing and household goods

[31:46] to the community at a very low cost,

[31:48] while keeping such items out of landfills.

[31:50] With proceeds supporting Church ministry

[31:53] and mission work through the Lutheran

[31:55] Women's Missionary League, which also

[31:57] provides disaster relief assistance

[31:59] throughout the United States and around the world.

[32:02] Now therefore, the mayor and council

[32:04] of the city of St. Clair Shores on

[32:06] behalf of all our residents, do hereby

[32:09] congratulate St. Paul's Lutheran Church

[32:12] on celebrating its 100th anniversary,

[32:17] and express sincere appreciation for

[32:19] a century of faith, service,

[32:22] and dedication to the community and

[32:24] wish for many, many more years of

[32:27] continued success.

[32:29] Congratulations.

[32:30] [applause]

[32:37] say a word or so?

[32:38] Just want to say thank the proclamation says everything.

[32:41] Just want to say thank you, Mr. Mayor.

[32:42] Thank you, uh, Council.

[32:44] It's uh, pretty amazing to to to be around for 100 years.

[32:48] Hopefully be another 100 years to years to come.

[32:51] Well, and to just I think the thank you really is more from us to you.

[32:57] Thank you for being part of this community for 100 years.

[33:00] and provided the Lord to, we appreciate

[33:02] all you have done for this community for 100 years.

[33:04] and we Lord willing it'll be another

[33:06] 100 years. So we thank you for

[33:08] everything you have done. Right, right? So.

[33:11] again, congratulations.

[33:12] Thank you for everything you've done in this community. We appreciate it.

[33:14] [applause]

[33:21] Joanne, you need to come up.

[33:26] Okay. So.

[33:36] Thank you. Thank you.

[33:39] Nice work.

[33:44] The band's been here for 90 years.

[33:47] I know he's been here for 90 years.

[33:48] I think and the city's been paying him

[33:50] for like 39 years, you know that, right?

[33:52] Because he's retired.

[33:55] Good for you.

[34:07] Maple Benjamin Hunters uh anniversary proclamation.

[34:11] Come on, oh, yeah, how are you? Great to see you.

[34:14] right here. Stand right here. Fantastic.

[34:17] everybody. Well, read it then you can say a few words. How's that?

[34:20] Okay. Sounds good.

[34:21] All right, we'll put that over. Get the mic ready.

[34:26] Maple Benjamin Canal.

[34:30] Whereas in the early 1900s, before

[34:32] the region became heavily populated,

[34:33] the shores of Lake St. Clair served

[34:36] as a popular retreat for Detroit

[34:37] residents seeking recreation and respit

[34:39] from city life.

[34:41] To expand waterfront access and support

[34:44] residential development, an extensive

[34:46] network of dredged canals were created

[34:48] throughout the city, including the Lake

[34:50] St. Clair Gardens Annex subdivision

[34:52] where Maple and Benjamin Streets are located.

[34:54] The Maple Benjamin Canal has for 100 years been a

[34:58] integral part of the city's unique waterfront identity,

[35:01] providing residents direct access to Lake St. Clair and

[35:04] supporting a vibrant boating and residential community.

[35:09] Whereas the centennial of Maple Benjamin Canal provides an

[35:13] opportunity to celebrate the canal's historical significance

[35:16] and recognize the generations of residents who have continued to

[35:19] preserving and enjoying this treasured community.

[35:24] Now, therefore, be it resolved

[35:26] that the Mayor and Council of the City of St. Clair Shores

[35:29] on behalf of all its residents, do here, do hereby proclaim

[35:32] the recognition of the 100th anniversary of the

[35:35] Maple Benjamin Canal

[35:38] and extend best wishes to all residents and families celebrating

[35:41] this important milestone with gratitude for the canal's enduring

[35:45] contribution to the character, heritage, and vitality

[35:48] of our community.

[35:51] Congratulations.

[35:52] Thank you so much for

[35:55] [applause]

[36:00] There you go.

[36:01] Just a few

[36:02] Your name?

[36:03] words. My name's Judith Wallen.

[36:05] I'm a long-time resident of the Maple Benjamin Canal.

[36:09] Um, I've seen many transitions throughout the years.

[36:13] But just think how long we've been here, a hundred years.

[36:17] Um, they show on, I think I gave them a little thing that

[36:20] showed all the little tracks.

[36:24] Uh, what happened with the crash, the stock market kind of stopped that.

[36:30] But we're back, we're building, we're enjoying the lake and

[36:33] thank you so much for this declaration to our

[36:36] 100th anniversary.

[36:39] Thank you.

[36:40] It's our pleasure. Thank you.

[36:41] Thank you.

[36:42] [applause]

[36:47] [laughter] wants that one. He wants that one.

[36:52] And additionally,

[36:53] Yes, I'll I'll make copies of this and make sure each

[36:56] homeowner gets a copy.

[36:58] That'd be great. That'd be awesome.

[36:59] We appreciate that.

[37:00] If if not we can get if not we can get it through the city.

[37:02] Either either way we'll take care. Abby will help you with that.

[37:05] All right.

[37:06] Thank you.

[37:07] [applause]

[37:12] Uh, Moore Veterinary Hospital.

[37:16] Fun up.

[37:16] Good evening.

[37:17] How are you?

[37:19] Just fine.

[37:19] Fantastic.

[37:21] Very good.

[37:23] Hi, how are you?

[37:24] Good, how are you?

[37:25] Great. S- right here, we'll we'll read this proclamation

[37:27] and we'll have you say a few words.

[37:28] How's that?

[37:29] We're going to put you on the spot.

[37:31] Yeah.

[37:32] No problem.

[37:33] I I get stuck, so you got to do it.

[37:37] In honor of the 90th anniversary of Moore Veterinary Hospital.

[37:42] Where's the Mayor and Council, the City of St. Clair Shores,

[37:45] please do recognize Moore Veterinary Hospital

[37:47] as it celebrates 90 years of compassion, veterinary care,

[37:50] professional excellence and dedicated service to generations

[37:54] of families and their beloved pets.

[37:58] More Veterinary Hospital was founded in 1936 by Dr.

[38:04] Charlie Moore, beginning a legacy of veterinary service that has

[38:07] continued for nine decades

[38:09] and touched the lives of countless animals and families

[38:12] throughout the community.

[38:14] In 1945, brothers Howard and Gray Nurse returned from

[38:18] World War II and began their veterinary education,

[38:21] demonstrating the dedication that would lead them to carry

[38:24] the practice forward.

[38:26] In 1966, Dr. Moore retired and entrusted his practice to

[38:29] the two brothers.

[38:32] As the practice grew, Moore Veterinary Hospital moved from

[38:35] Detroit to a new facility in St. Clair Shores in 1975.

[38:40] Becoming an important and lasting part of our community.

[38:44] In 1986, Dr. Richard Nurse, son of Dr. Howard Nurse, purchased

[38:49] the hospital and continued the family's multi-generational

[38:52] commitment to veterinary medicine.

[38:56] For nine decades, Moore Veterinary Hospital has continually adapted

[39:00] to advances in veterinary medicine while maintaining the

[39:03] personal attention, compassion, and trust upon which it was

[39:05] founded.

[39:07] The history of Moore Veterinary Hospital is not simply the

[39:10] history of a business,

[39:12] but a story of family, dedication, community

[39:15] and the special bond between people and their pets.

[39:20] Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Mayor and Council of

[39:23] the City of St. Clair Shores on behalf of all its citizens

[39:26] extend our congratulations and best wishes to Moore

[39:29] Veterinary Hospital on celebrating its 90th

[39:32] anniversary and wish them many

[39:35] more years of continued success.

[39:38] Congratulations.

[39:39] [applause]

[39:46] you can just say.

[39:48] Uh, we're not a hundred years yet.

[39:49] No, but we're we'll be there in 10.

[39:51] That's still 90's pretty good. 90's pretty good.

[39:54] Uh, but it's been fun, we, as you said, we were in Detroit,

[39:58] uh, for a long time and when we came out here.

[40:02] It's a very, very good decision that we made.

[40:05] We're very happy with St. Clair Shores.

[40:07] Um, so we keep on going.

[40:09] Thank you. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for everything.

[40:14] [applause] Thank you.

[40:15] [applause]

[40:20] we're catering, and we don't see anyone here,

[40:23] so we'll, we'll bring them back too.

[40:32] Proclamation for

[40:36] Donna Flaherty.

[40:38] Come on up.

[40:40] [applause]

[40:44] How are you, Donna?

[40:48] [laughter]

[40:50] I'll read this and you can say a few words, please.

[40:52] I've seen you, Tiffa, you can say a few words.

[40:54] [laughter]

[40:57] Celebrating 50 years of community business

[40:59] and civic leadership,

[41:03] Whereas the mayor and council of the city of St. Clair Shores

[41:06] are pleased to recognize Donna Flaherty

[41:09] for more than five decades of dedicated service,

[41:11] community involvement, entrepreneurship and

[41:14] unwavering commitment to the city of St. Clair Shores

[41:18] and for sure to the nautical mile.

[41:21] Donna came to St. Clair Shores more than 50 years ago after

[41:24] growing up in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.

[41:27] Beginning her career in the community as a teacher and

[41:30] ultimately making St. Clair Shores

[41:33] where she raised her three sons and built lifelong friendships

[41:36] and relationships with generations of residents

[41:39] and local business owners.

[41:43] In 1985, Donna and her late husband, Paul,

[41:46] found Gifts A'Float, beginning more than a 40-year

[41:49] entrepreneur journey on the nautical mile.

[41:53] In 1989, the business was transformed into a distinctive

[41:56] retail destination featuring nautical,

[41:59] Great Lakes, boating, and maritime merchandise.

[42:02] In 2011, after more than 25 years at its original

[42:05] location,

[42:08] Gifts A'Float moved to 25020 Jefferson, which is really just

[42:10] about across the street.

[42:13] Remaining on the nautical mile, of course, continuing the

[42:16] commitment to the district Donna has worked so tirelessly

[42:18] to promote.

[42:20] Donna helped co-found the Nautical Mile Merchants

[42:23] Association, an organization dedicated to promoting,

[42:25] strengthening and advancing the business and attractions

[42:28] along the St. Clair Shores nautical mile,

[42:33] serving as its president, director since 2009 and

[42:36] becoming one of the district's most recognizable and dedicated

[42:39] advocates.

[42:42] Donna has served in the city's tax increment finance authority

[42:44] board since the 1990s,

[42:47] participating in long-term planning and improvements that

[42:50] have helped shape the Nautical Mile and surrounding community,

[42:55] including projects involving Wahby Park, the Festival of

[42:58] Lights, and improvements at Blossom Heath Park, as well as

[43:01] the volunteering with the St. Clair Shores Memorial Day

[43:04] Parade Committee and the St. Clair Shores Goodfellows.

[43:08] Now, therefore, be it resolved,

[43:10] that the mayor and council of the city of St. Clair Shores,

[43:13] on behalf of all our residents, publicly recognize and honor

[43:17] Donna Flaherty

[43:20] for her more than five decades of service, leadership,

[43:23] entrepreneurship, and dedication to the city of St. Clair Shores.

[43:29] Congratulations, Donna.

[43:30] [applause]

[43:45] I'm just honored, I'm gonna probably cry with happiness.

[43:50] But I love our city.

[43:52] Well, you've always been a great proponent, not over the Nautical

[43:54] Mile, but of St. Clair Shores, and we, we want to thank you for

[43:57] all you have done to promote that and make the Nautical Mile. It's

[43:59] just your baby and it's always been that way.

[44:01] Oh, this is a beautiful city.

[44:03] Lovely people.

[44:05] [laughter]

[44:07] Well, thank you. And then we're very emotional.

[44:09] Thank you, for everything. We appreciate it.

[44:11] And thank you very much.

[44:14] Good evening. Thank you.

[44:15] [applause]

[44:27] And the last one is Constitution Week, of course.

[44:29] September, September 17th through the 23rd.

[44:33] Uh, I know we got the Daughters of the American Revolution,

[44:35] all right. Come on up, Greta.

[44:37] Good to see you.

[44:40] Sit, stand here, I'll read this.

[44:42] How are you this evening?

[44:45] And then you can say a few words if you don't mind, right?

[44:49] We appreciate your organization too, I mean, you were

[44:51] instrumental in reading the declarations for the

[44:53] uh, 250th of the July 4th, so we appreciate that. We, we, we

[44:56] said it back then, but publicly since you're right here, we do

[44:59] appreciate the work.

[45:00] do and and how that turned out. It turned out. It turned out very well at at at Veterans Memorial Park.

[45:05] Okay.

[45:06] It was actually not July 4th, actually not July 4th, actually it was July, yeah that's correct.

[45:09] When everyone read it in America on that date.

[45:12] I I I realized my error.

[45:13] [laughter]

[45:16] And I wanted to correct it before maybe someone up here corrected me,

[45:19] maybe your husband or Mr. Karen or someone like that. So

[45:23] Uh

[45:24] proclamation designating September 17th through 23rd, 2026 as

[45:29] United States Constitution Week.

[45:32] Whereas in its 250th anniversary year of the signing of the

[45:35] Declaration of Independence, which proclaimed to the world the revolutionary,

[45:38] revolutionary self-evident truths that all men are created equal,

[45:43] and are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights,

[45:46] including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[45:51] In this 239th anniversary year of the drafting of the

[45:54] Constitution of the United States by delegates

[45:56] to the Constitutional Convention, which created the enduring governmental

[46:01] foundation of We the People, securing these evident, self-evident truths.

[46:08] Whereas it is fitting and proper to ask our citizens to reaffirm

[46:12] the truths proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence,

[46:15] reflect upon the personal and governmental actions necessary

[46:18] to reaffirm and protect these truths

[46:21] as expressed in the Constitution.

[46:24] and execute their duty as We the People by participating in their

[46:28] governmental, thoughtfully and actively.

[46:32] It is fitting and proper to accord official recognition to these

[46:35] anniversaries through patriotic celebrations which will commemorate

[46:41] the occasion.

[46:43] Whereas Public Law 915 guarantees the issuance of proclamation by

[46:47] the President of the United States of America designating September

[46:50] 17th through the 23rd as Constitution Week.

[46:55] Whereas during September 17th through the 23rd, the National Society,

[46:58] Daughters of the American Revolution, the Detroit chapter will celebrate

[47:02] the Constitution and the 235th anniversary of the Bill of Rights.

[47:07] Now therefore be it resolved, the mayor and Council do hereby proclaim the week

[47:11] of September 17th through the 23rd in the city of St. Clair Shores as

[47:14] the United States Constitution Week,

[47:17] and encourage all citizens to study the Constitution and reflect on the

[47:22] privilege of being an American with the rights and responsibilities which

[47:26] they, with with that privilege entails, remembering that

[47:30] rights are lost, are difficult to regain.

[47:34] So congratulations for that.

[47:37] [applause]

[47:42] Thank you so much, mayor and Council.

[47:45] Um, this is wonderful to get this recognition. The Daughters of the

[47:49] American Revolution, um, exists to keep patriotism alive and to

[47:53] educate the public on um, historic dates and facts and and people.

[47:58] Um, I personally have ten um ancestors who fought for this country,

[48:03] and I'm still researching more.

[48:05] We're actually going to Philadelphia later this week to uh do some

[48:09] genealogy research.

[48:11] It's fun. I hope everyone in this room looks into their family tree. We are

[48:15] probably cousins, no doubt.

[48:17] And um, I know 250 years ago we didn't have flat cameras, but

[48:22] the fact that you're here, this is what participatory government's all about and

[48:25] and it's uh it's a you're patriotic duty, so thank you all for coming tonight.

[48:28] Thank you for

[48:29] [applause]

[48:39] Thank you.

[48:42] It's good.

[48:43] [clattering]

[48:44] I can give you five.

[48:49] Thank you.

[48:51] Thank you.

[48:53] Thank you.

[48:55] Thanks, Gran.

[48:57] [cough]

[48:59] Thank you.

[49:01] Thank you.

[49:03] Thank you.

[49:06] Thank you.

[49:09] Thank you.

[49:10] [paper rustling]

[49:16] Item three is audience participation.

[49:18] Hey, America.

[49:19] Oh, yeah, my money.

[49:21] Maybe for the presenters,

[49:23] candidates the official meeting starts.

[49:25] They don't need to stay if they don't,

[49:27] or the people who all got

[49:28] proclamations don't need to stay if they need to go.

[49:30] No, thank you.

[49:31] [laughter]

[49:33] This is your chance.

[49:37] [paper rustling]

[49:44] [clattering]

[49:53] [inaudible]

[49:55] We're going to get your church, I sure can.

[49:57] Can you see it?

[49:58] [inaudible]

[50:15] So item three is um audience participation on the agenda items.

[50:20] Abby, do we have any, it's two-minute timeline to speak on agenda items?

[50:24] Yes, we have 12 speakers. The first speaker is John Noble, a Roseville

[50:28] resident speaking on agenda item 10A.

[50:32] Okay, thank you.

[50:46] Good evening.

[50:47] My name is John. I'm a Roseville resident.

[50:51] I have a monthly membership at Shores Yoga

[50:53] and I attend your social districts quite often.

[50:57] Um. Great. I love your city. Great.

[50:59] I'm a former minister and an army veteran.

[51:02] I work in cybersecurity.

[51:04] I know a lot about both surveillance and cybersecurity.

[51:09] I expect other people are going to talk to you about those things today.

[51:12] What I want to talk to you about is this:

[51:16] Don't trust the salesperson.

[51:21] Sales people lie.

[51:23] They tell us that social media is safe for our kids.

[51:28] They tell us that opioids are safe for our patients.

[51:33] Trust your local subject matter experts,

[51:36] the citizens who are here today.

[51:41] not the A P L R sales people.

[51:43] Pardon me, I got a frog in my throat.

[51:45] [throat clearing]

[51:48] I know that many of us are probably here for the same reason.

[51:52] Um, we're here to talk about Flock.

[51:55] And it's probably our first city council meeting for a lot of us, right?

[52:01] Being here is a first step,

[52:04] but it can't be the last. Flock and all this other nonsense that's

[52:07] happening is happening because

[52:10] for too long, many of us haven't been active in our communities.

[52:13] One of my core beliefs is that our communities are healthier

[52:16] when we're all involved.

[52:19] So it doesn't matter to me what your politics are,

[52:22] whether you're a Democratic socialist like myself, a libertarian

[52:25] like my buddy Mike over here.

[52:28] Whether you voted for Trump three times.

[52:30] It's my goal for all of us to spend less time in front of our screens

[52:34] and more time improving our communities

[52:37] and helping our representatives make the right decisions.

[52:40] If that sounds good to you, uh, please come talk to me afterwards.

[52:43] I will help you connect to something that works for you.

[52:46] Thank you.

[52:47] [applause]

[52:56] Helen Drolet, a St. Clair Shores resident speaking on agenda item 10.

[53:07] Also here about the Flock camera.

[53:09] I've been a resident of St. Clair Shores for 40 years.

[53:13] I think a lot of people are very concerned about invasion of privacy

[53:16] and the use of information.

[53:20] We already have phones that can track us.

[53:22] We have already their cars that can track us.

[53:24] You have your grocery store that know what you buy.

[53:27] You have Google that find your house.

[53:30] People are getting tired of that.

[53:34] They wonder now, this is the start of something that we don't know

[53:37] how far is it going to go.

[53:40] This is different. This is not the same.

[53:45] Now we're going to call it Big Brother?

[53:47] Are we going to call it Big Government?

[53:50] Nobody is interested in Big Government to be followed everywhere

[53:53] they go in every activity they do.

[53:56] Going to church, going to school, going to the stores.

[54:01] Information being share all over the country. We know that.

[54:05] Just go online. I'm 73 years old. I can go online and find why

[54:09] all the Flock cameras are all over the country.

[54:14] Sterling Heights.

[54:16] I went to a meeting in Sterling Heights

[54:18] to speak against Flock cameras.

[54:20] This is not just our city, this is not just Macomb County,

[54:23] this is concerned the state and the whole country.

[54:30] Other cities are speaking out.

[54:33] Are you watching?

[54:34] Are you watching everybody what other cities are doing about that?

[54:40] Please, it's time for people to speak against things they don't care

[54:43] about in their city.

[54:47] Are those information share all over the country?

[54:50] Yes, they are, and we know that.

[54:53] Are they being used for Flock camera, are they used for

[54:55] immigration, for ICE?

[54:59] Please, write down.

[55:01] it's time to think about the senators of both parties who

[55:06] decided to this to speak about the flock cameras.

[55:10] We have expressing, they are expressing concern right now

[55:14] from both parties about the use of flock cameras.

[55:17] So I ask you at this time, since it's not resolved,

[55:22] that we should put a hold on the use of those cameras

[55:25] until the state make regulation

[55:28] and the government federal put regulation.

[55:31] This concern every citizen all over the United States.

[55:35] Thank you.

[55:36] [applause]

[55:52] Daryl Mudechen.

[55:54] You got it.

[55:55] Uh, St. Clair Shores resident speaking on agenda 10A.

[56:00] Thank you.

[56:01] It's very ironic that it's Constitution week.

[56:04] I'd love to hear what the Daughters of the American

[56:06] Revolution would say about Flock Cameras.

[56:08] Um, so thank you for being here very much. I appreciate it.

[56:11] I just want to thank the mayor and council

[56:12] for adding Flock to the agenda.

[56:14] Originally, it wasn't on the agenda,

[56:16] so I think adding it after the fact that it was pointed out

[56:18] showed a lot of respect, so I really appreciate that.

[56:23] I would like to reference the last time I was up here

[56:25] and read from the standard contract from Flock.

[56:27] It gives them the rights and ownership of the data

[56:30] for all types of reasons to be shared

[56:33] and I won't read that again.

[56:35] Uh, I bring it up because I put in a FOIA request

[56:37] requesting my Flock data into, uh, on my

[56:39] info on my plate or full name

[56:41] for the month of August of 2026.

[56:45] The request was denied for a few reasons.

[56:47] One being I'm not under investigation,

[56:49] so they don't have an incident number.

[56:50] Uh, that's a policy thing at our department and I get that.

[56:54] But when I called to talk to the records office,

[56:56] I talked to one of our sergeants,

[56:57] and they helped me understand the department policy

[57:00] and why they could not fulfill the request.

[57:03] I pressed further on why I can't have what Flock has on me

[57:06] because supposedly it's being sold to us as data owned

[57:08] by your local police department.

[57:11] I was told, and I am paraphrasing,

[57:13] the data is not theirs to give me.

[57:15] So I am not blaming anyone here,

[57:17] but it's just a lack, not just a lack of transparency

[57:20] on what info Flock has on us,

[57:22] it's no transparency.

[57:24] I would ask if they have nothing to hide, why the secrecy.

[57:28] Uh, why is this important?

[57:30] Well because big companies with tons of cybersecurity

[57:33] get hacked all the time, companies like Sony Pictures,

[57:36] JP Morgan Chase, Capital One, Central Bank of Chile

[57:39] and many others including Flock as reported

[57:42] by 404 Media and that was a recent report.

[57:45] Uh also cybersecurity firm Hudson Rock found that at least

[57:48] 35 Flock Safety law enforcement customer accounts

[57:51] were compromised by info stealer malware

[57:54] with credentials later up for sale on Russian

[57:58] cybersecurity forums.

[58:02] So when the next time comes and Flock gets hacked

[58:05] and the hackers could possibly have my entire family's

[58:08] whereabouts for a month and great predictive data

[58:10] on how to victimize me in the future,

[58:12] I am not comfortable with that

[58:14] and law abiding citizens shouldn't have to put up

[58:16] with being tracked by an unaccountable company

[58:19] like Flock Safety whose data on us is not safe

[58:22] and who directly profits on ending the privacy

[58:24] of their fellow Americans. Thank you.

[58:26] [applause]

[58:42] Joyce Jaki.

[58:44] A St. Clair Shores resident speaking on agenda item 10.

[58:56] Hello.

[58:58] I'm Joyce. I'm lived in St. Clair Shores now for oh,

[59:01] longer than I even want to mention.

[59:04] But I strongly urge the officials who did agree

[59:08] to the, uh, contract with Flock

[59:11] to please very, very seriously consider

[59:15] annulling it.

[59:18] Um, personally, I don't feel safer with Flock cameras.

[59:24] Uh, and you know, one of the first things I thought of,

[59:27] um, when I started thinking more about Flock cameras

[59:31] was way back to 2001.

[59:34] When the airplanes hit our Twin Towers.

[59:37] Yes, it was horrific.

[59:39] It was horrible and I was scared out of my wits.

[59:43] However, when Bush started talking about the Patriot Act

[59:48] and I'm sure there are people in this room who lived

[59:51] through this.

[59:53] It was a time of real consternation.

[59:56] Do we want to give up our rights to the government?

[1:00:00] Do we want to

[1:00:01] give up some of the things that

[1:00:03] our forefathers fought for. What

[1:00:06] what my father fought for.

[1:00:08] Um,

[1:00:09] so again, I

[1:00:12] you know, we were afraid. We were afraid that it was going to

[1:00:14] become a slippery slope.

[1:00:16] And indeed, it has become a very slippery slope

[1:00:20] because we've had several other surveillance legislation.

[1:00:26] Uh, passed.

[1:00:28] And I just want to

[1:00:32] uh, tell you that I'm a firm believer in our Bill of Rights.

[1:00:35] I don't like to see the Bill of Rights eroded.

[1:00:39] and I don't think you do either.

[1:00:42] And

[1:00:44] you know, what what what has all this surveillance doing for us?

[1:00:48] I'll tell you, um,

[1:00:50] I'm not scared of my neighbors.

[1:00:52] I'm not scared of immigrants.

[1:00:54] I'm not scared of people with darker skin.

[1:00:57] What I'm scared of

[1:00:58] is how the federal government is trying to uh, put wedges in

[1:01:03] between us and tell us that we should be scared

[1:01:08] of each other.

[1:01:09] Thank you.

[1:01:10] [applause]

[1:01:25] Daniel Barr, a Saint Clair Shores resident speaking on agenda item 10.

[1:01:34] Good evening.

[1:01:36] Two weeks ago, other residents and I stood here and raised

[1:01:39] our concerns about flock.

[1:01:40] Since then, we've seen what happened in East Point

[1:01:43] with the misuse of this unregulated,

[1:01:46] uncertified, untrain, un uh,

[1:01:49] restrained by Michigan law

[1:01:51] private AI surveillance system.

[1:01:54] East Point was one of the 147 trusted agencies St. Clair Shores

[1:01:59] shared our flock data with.

[1:02:02] Six days ago, East Point Council voted 4-1 to end

[1:02:04] its flock contract.

[1:02:07] Trust is the keyword here.

[1:02:09] The facts show again,

[1:02:10] for the last 14 months, flock has been testing this system

[1:02:16] on the residents of St. Clair Shores.

[1:02:19] Every flock violation is followed by the same story,

[1:02:21] statements, patches, enhancements,

[1:02:25] rehearsed sales promises and a request for more time,

[1:02:28] one more time to trust that they got it right.

[1:02:32] So how long does St. Clair Shores willing to accept this risk

[1:02:35] and legal liability?

[1:02:38] How long will we ignore that St. Clair Shores's own policies

[1:02:42] and actions can't prevent what other trusted agencies

[1:02:45] do with our data?

[1:02:48] Neither St. Clair Shores PD nor Flock can stop

[1:02:49] the next East Point.

[1:02:52] St. Clair Shores doesn't need another sales presentation,

[1:02:55] we don't need more testimonials

[1:02:57] or another list of upgrades and promises

[1:03:01] that the system is now secure.

[1:03:04] I call on the council to protect the people of St. Clair Shores

[1:03:08] and cancel the flock contract.

[1:03:10] And I want to take one second since I have a few seconds here,

[1:03:13] I want to thank everybody for showing up.

[1:03:16] Whether you believe in it or not,

[1:03:18] showing up is the big deal.

[1:03:19] And someone else mentioned it, and I want to mention it again,

[1:03:22] and I want to uh,

[1:03:23] really acknowledge that.

[1:03:25] Um, that is the important part

[1:03:26] because as I mentioned last time,

[1:03:28] we got to get this right. And this is our chance.

[1:03:31] Thank you.

[1:03:32] [applause]

[1:03:46] Aaron Dome, a Roseville resident speaking on agenda item 10A.

[1:04:00] Hi. All right.

[1:04:01] I had something prepared, uh, but I decided to just wing it.

[1:04:06] I got home today and I had my wife and my two daughters.

[1:04:10] They were uh, cooking dinner and playing solitaire,

[1:04:13] and it was wonderful.

[1:04:15] And I had to leave to come here

[1:04:17] to convince people to not set up a infrastructure for a mass

[1:04:21] surveillance network.

[1:04:25] Why am I doing this?

[1:04:28] [applause]

[1:04:30] And and it's happening like East Point,

[1:04:35] Florida, it's all over the news.

[1:04:38] People are getting rid of it.

[1:04:39] They don't, we us Americans take our freedom very seriously.

[1:04:43] And that's why we're all here.

[1:04:46] And it's happening.

[1:04:47] So I really hope we as Michigan can take our freedom seriously

[1:04:51] and be on the right side of this.

[1:04:55] Or or you guys are going to get left behind because we're

[1:04:57] doing it.

[1:04:58] We're getting rid of flock. We're what do petitions,

[1:05:00] whatever it takes. It's happening.

[1:05:02] So, thank you guys so much.

[1:05:04] [applause]

[1:05:16] Jason A.G. uh, speaking on agenda item 10A.

[1:05:34] Hello, gentlemen. My name's Jason Die.

[1:05:35] I am the candidate for Attorney General under the

[1:05:37] Libertarian ticket.

[1:05:39] I'm going to start this off since it's Constitution week.

[1:05:42] We're going to go to my favorite part, Article 6,

[1:05:44] paragraph 2, the supremacy clause.

[1:05:47] Follow me here.

[1:05:49] The Constitution and the laws of the United States which

[1:05:51] shall be made in pursuance thereof.

[1:05:56] So all laws got to be made in pursuance of this, correct?

[1:05:58] Great.

[1:06:00] And all treaties made or which shall be made under

[1:06:02] the authority of the United States,

[1:06:05] shall be the supreme law of the land.

[1:06:09] And judges in every state are bound thereby.

[1:06:13] Right?

[1:06:15] And anything in this Constitution or laws of any

[1:06:17] state to the contrary, not withstanding.

[1:06:21] Know what that means?

[1:06:23] Dead on conception. No duty to enforce, no duty to obey.

[1:06:27] Let's go here to this wonderful, uh,

[1:06:29] Bill of Rights here.

[1:06:30] Get into this, uh, fourth amendment here.

[1:06:33] The right of the people to be secure in their persons,

[1:06:36] houses, papers and effects against unreasonable searches,

[1:06:40] Hmm, what would make a search unreasonable?

[1:06:42] I'll continue.

[1:06:44] And Caesars shall not be violated, and no warrants

[1:06:46] shall issue but upon probable cause.

[1:06:50] Hmm, supported by oath.

[1:06:51] You know, that thing every one of you swore as elected

[1:06:53] officials?

[1:06:54] That?

[1:06:56] Or affirmation, and particularly describing

[1:06:57] the place to be searched, and the persons or things

[1:07:00] to be seized.

[1:07:02] Commonly referred to as the warrant-less search amendment.

[1:07:06] Hence flock.

[1:07:07] Now, I'm going to take it even a step further.

[1:07:09] Let's get into this wonderful first amendment here.

[1:07:12] Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment

[1:07:14] of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

[1:07:19] Or.

[1:07:20] Abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,

[1:07:22] or of the right of the people to peacefully assemble and to

[1:07:26] petition their government for a redress of grievances.

[1:07:29] I don't know about you, but I don't feel too free going to

[1:07:31] my church with a freaking flock camera,

[1:07:33] telling me where I'm going, what about redressing the

[1:07:35] grievance, uh, here petition in the government?

[1:07:37] Now you know everybody that's going?

[1:07:39] What kind of database are you really building?

[1:07:41] Next, we're going to get onto my five minute,

[1:07:42] at the end of this, we're going to get into that good

[1:07:44] old Declaration of Independence because the first

[1:07:47] paragraph's about abolishing corrupt government.

[1:07:49] [applause]

[1:08:00] Lisa Oxford, a St. Clair Shores resident, speaking

[1:08:02] on agenda item 10A.

[1:08:08] Good evening.

[1:08:09] Hello.

[1:08:10] I don't have something prepared for the two minutes.

[1:08:13] I do intend to speak on ALPR systems later on

[1:08:16] in the evening.

[1:08:19] I'd just like to thank everybody for coming tonight.

[1:08:23] I don't want to lose sight of what the system is

[1:08:25] really about.

[1:08:29] It's about the mass warrantless surveillance

[1:08:31] of the American people and everyone in our country.

[1:08:38] We heard earlier about how difficult it was to gain

[1:08:42] these rights.

[1:08:47] It wasn't easy.

[1:08:48] We didn't vote to become a country.

[1:08:53] What will we have to do to retain them if we lose them?

[1:08:56] Well, if we lose them?

[1:08:58] How will you get them back?

[1:09:00] What happens?

[1:09:08] What kind of country do I want to live in?

[1:09:14] Well,

[1:09:15] I think that you'll hear a lot about these systems tonight.

[1:09:20] And it's not just about one company.

[1:09:22] It's about what they are in general.

[1:09:25] It's not about Axon, it's not about Flock,

[1:09:27] it's not about vigilant.

[1:09:29] There are many different systems.

[1:09:32] But they all do the same horrible thing.

[1:09:38] There are some decisions we can't come back from.

[1:09:42] And I hope we make the right ones.

[1:09:45] Tonight I hope to tell you a little bit about the system

[1:09:48] that maybe you haven't heard yet.

[1:09:52] And that maybe other folks don't intend to touch upon.

[1:09:56] Because it is something that's overlooked.

[1:09:59] You're giving up something important.

[1:10:02] for something extremely stupid.

[1:10:05] Well, I thank you for your time.

[1:10:07] [applause]

[1:10:16] Mike Saliba, a Clinton Township resident,

[1:10:20] speaking on agenda item 10A.

[1:10:32] Hi, I'm Mike.

[1:10:35] I'm Mike Saliba. I'm the chair of the Libertarian Party

[1:10:38] here in Macomb County, and I'm the Libertarian Party candidate

[1:10:42] for US House of Representatives here in the 10th.

[1:10:45] I'm trying to become a member of government as you

[1:10:47] are all already members of government.

[1:10:51] So, I spent a lot of time thinking about past members of

[1:10:54] past governments

[1:10:57] who I'd like to emulate and who I wouldn't.

[1:11:02] When I think about Benjamin Franklin, John Adams,

[1:11:05] Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington,

[1:11:09] and wonder if they would have utilized a system like this,

[1:11:14] I don't think they would have.

[1:11:17] When I think of Joseph Stalin,

[1:11:20] Benito Mussolini,

[1:11:22] Mao Zedong,

[1:11:24] and Adolf Hitler,

[1:11:27] I think they would have jumped at it.

[1:11:29] Since you're already members of government, it's up to you to

[1:11:32] decide what kind of historical company you'd like to keep.

[1:11:36] And it's also up to you to remember that you are public

[1:11:38] officials.

[1:11:40] We are private citizens.

[1:11:42] We should know everything about you, you should know

[1:11:44] very little about us.

[1:11:47] Let's co costs take down the cameras pointed at

[1:11:50] the people

[1:11:53] and we'll just keep a few to be pointed at you if you

[1:11:56] really need some cameras for your safety.

[1:11:58] [applause]

[1:12:10] Whitney Boone, a St. Clair Shore, a Sterling Heights

[1:12:14] resident speaking on agenda 10

[1:12:25] Good evening.

[1:12:26] Evening.

[1:12:27] Mayor and City Council.

[1:12:28] My name is Whitney Brown. Sorry.

[1:12:31] my chicken scratch is terrible.

[1:12:34] I live in Sterling Heights, but a lot of my family and

[1:12:37] close friends live, spend money, and sleep here in St. Clair Shores.

[1:12:41] So my family's privacy and safety are directly at risk

[1:12:43] tonight as well.

[1:12:45] As a registered nurse in a cardiac cath lab, I love

[1:12:49] technology. It saves lives.

[1:12:50] But our golden rule is to never blindly,

[1:12:53] keyword there blindly, trust a machine.

[1:12:58] over human judgment.

[1:13:00] If a heart sensor is uncalibrated by just 2%,

[1:13:03] that error multiplies instantly into a missed blockage

[1:13:06] or torn artery.

[1:13:08] In the the same mathematical danger applies to the flock

[1:13:11] safety cameras.

[1:13:13] Flock claims a 96% accuracy rate,

[1:13:16] but no, no, no, no, no.

[1:13:17] The fine print reveals that that is per character, not

[1:13:20] per plate.

[1:13:22] So on a seven character or Michigan plate, a 4% error

[1:13:25] rate compounds.

[1:13:29] That's base mathematical theorem on error

[1:13:31] propagation.

[1:13:33] So your actual accuracy crashes into the

[1:13:35] 70s.

[1:13:37] In fact, a real world audit in Bville, California

[1:13:41] showed flock misreads rates at 71% of its alerts.

[1:13:47] So, when a dirty lens or Michigan night glare turns a

[1:13:50] B into an eight, the system flags an innocent vehicle.

[1:13:53] Officers receive the hot list alert and expect a high risk

[1:13:55] suspect.

[1:13:58] Not a math error.

[1:14:00] This creates a terrifying reality.

[1:14:02] An innocent mom driving down Harper or taking her son to

[1:14:05] Veterans Memorial Park could face a high risk felony stop at gunpoint.

[1:14:10] In Aurora, Colorado, this exact glitch caused police to

[1:14:13] draw guns on a mother and her children,

[1:14:15] costing their taxpayers $1.9 million in a lawsuit.

[1:14:20] That would be these people here.

[1:14:23] Just

[1:14:24] Just weeks ago, on August 6th, 2026, this exact identical

[1:14:28] gunpoint scenario played out right here on I I 94.

[1:14:34] So if we can't guarantee rigorous, independent, daily

[1:14:38] calibration of these cameras, we must not renew this contract.

[1:14:43] I have cited sources that I will give to the clerk just

[1:14:45] for your review.

[1:14:47] Thank you.

[1:14:48] [applause]

[1:15:00] Phil Decker, a

[1:15:02] Shelby Township resident

[1:15:03] speaking on agenda item 10.

[1:15:11] Good evening. Uh, my name is Philip.

[1:15:13] Uh, I former resident here.

[1:15:15] But anyway, it's been no secret

[1:15:17] that there's been a lot of public backlash against Flock.

[1:15:19] But the backlash is reaching a fever pitch.

[1:15:22] And so far in 2026, 116

[1:15:24] separate municipalities have canceled their contracts with Flock

[1:15:27] compared to 37 in 2025 and only 1 in 2024.

[1:15:31] Uh, the backlash is very bipartisan as well.

[1:15:33] Republican Congressman Thomas Massie

[1:15:35] and Democratic Congresswoman Rashida Talib have both discussed

[1:15:38] introducing legislation to withhold federal fundings from

[1:15:40] communities that use these devices.

[1:15:42] Democratic Senator Bernie Sanders

[1:15:44] has discussed legislation to ban these devices entirely.

[1:15:46] Republican Congressman Josh Holly

[1:15:48] has launched a congressional probe into this company

[1:15:50] and as of two days ago, Politico reported that the CEOs of Flock,

[1:15:54] Axon, Motorola, and Vercada Solutions were all invited to testify

[1:15:58] at a hearing regarding this investigation.

[1:16:01] It was also reported by Wired that

[1:16:03] Flock is now offering severance buyouts to their employees.

[1:16:06] It doesn't take an expert to see the writing on the wall,

[1:16:08] and Flock certainly does as well.

[1:16:09] Americans don't want this surveillance technology on their streets.

[1:16:12] But the Wired article also mentioned

[1:16:14] in a separate interview where Flock CEO Garrett Langley essentially said,

[1:16:17] Imagine being a Flock employee seeing all this hate

[1:16:20] and wondering, why are people so mad at us?

[1:16:23] We just want them to be safe.

[1:16:25] People are mad because Flock built

[1:16:27] a national surveillance network with

[1:16:29] no oversight or regard to public opinion.

[1:16:31] People are mad because no one got to vote on this.

[1:16:34] No one got to see any data showing

[1:16:36] what the benefit to the community actually is.

[1:16:39] No one was told beforehand what this system is or how it's going to work.

[1:16:43] No one got any transparency or consideration for their privacy.

[1:16:47] People are mad because this is

[1:16:49] another company being given cart blanche by our elected officials

[1:16:50] to exploit every aspect of our lives for profit.

[1:16:54] People are mad because they recognize

[1:16:56] that mass surveillance is fundamentally

[1:16:58] incompatible with their constitutional rights.

[1:17:00] People are mad because now we have

[1:17:02] to take time out of our days to go

[1:17:04] argue over the obvious, that mass surveillance is wrong

[1:17:07] and has no place in our communities.

[1:17:10] This contract should have been dead on arrival.

[1:17:13] But let's write that wrong and cancel it now.

[1:17:15] [applause]

[1:17:31] This is the last speaker,

[1:17:32] Lindsey Schreds, a St. Clair Shores resident

[1:17:35] speaking on agenda item 10.

[1:17:47] Hi, my name is Lindsey Seda, and I am a third generation

[1:17:52] resident of St. Clair Shores. My grandparents lived here, my parents

[1:17:56] and I now live in my grandparents' home. I own a business here,

[1:17:59] and let's get started. Um,

[1:18:01] I requested a FOIA recently

[1:18:03] for the contract. So if anyone wants it,

[1:18:06] I have it. Do not pay for it. I already paid for it.

[1:18:08] So, get a hold of me.

[1:18:10] My issue with Flock is the access that Flock company actually has

[1:18:13] to our data

[1:18:15] and also the FBI.

[1:18:17] If you look on Flock's website, they do not have a privacy

[1:18:19] or they do have a privacy policy that says Flock itself

[1:18:22] may access, use, preserve or disclose LPR data

[1:18:26] in certain circumstances, including when legally required

[1:18:29] or when Flock believes doing so is reasonably necessary

[1:18:32] for things such as legal process, enforcing this agreement

[1:18:35] or addressing security, fraud, privacy, or technical issues.

[1:18:39] One, two, the FBI and Peter Thiel connection.

[1:18:43] I'm surprised this has not come up yet. I'm happy here to inform you.

[1:18:46] Peter Thiel, if you are unaware, is the co-founder of Palantir

[1:18:49] Technologies.

[1:18:51] He also co-funded the venture capital firm Founder's Fund.

[1:18:55] Founder's Fund invested in Flock safety.

[1:18:59] Flock raised 275 million in 2025 funding.

[1:19:06] Um, and founding, Founders Fund was one of the investors.

[1:19:10] Flock has not publicly disclosed how much they have invested though.

[1:19:14] The problem is the connection. Why would Peter Thiel fund Flock?

[1:19:20] What do you think they want to gain out of all? If they're going to

[1:19:22] fund all this money,

[1:19:23] you think they're going to gain something for, right?

[1:19:27] Yeah, so if you're unaware,

[1:19:30] Um, Palantir is a company that connects

[1:19:34] authorized data sets and identifies relationships or patterns between them.

[1:19:39] AKA, um,

[1:19:42] like they they funded, they fund programs for ICE,

[1:19:45] they funded programs for the Israeli military.

[1:19:50] Um, and yes, the FBI is an authorized user in this contract

[1:19:56] and they do work with, have contracts with Palantir.

[1:20:00] So, my time's up, but

[1:20:01] Yes. Please do your research.

[1:20:03] [applause]

[1:20:15] We're good, right?

[1:20:18] Item four is request to approve the resolutions to adopt the Stevens Road

[1:20:25] Miss Koto.

[1:20:30] Good evening.

[1:20:31] Good evening, uh, Mr. Mayor and council members.

[1:20:35] My name is Courtney Sturgis.

[1:20:37] I'm a landscape and urban designer with Anderson, Eckstein, and Westrick,

[1:20:40] and tonight I'm here to present the Stevens Greenway feasibility study.

[1:20:47] This project began as a conversation between, um,

[1:20:51] the Economic and Community Development teams from St. Clair Shores, Eastpoint,

[1:20:58] About the potential for Stevens Road to become more than just a road,

[1:21:01] but a key connection, um, between the four communities, more than it already is.

[1:21:07] Building on that idea, the city of Warren submitted a grant application

[1:21:10] through SEMCOG's Planning Assistant program,

[1:21:14] and, um, on behalf of all four communities, and was awarded

[1:21:17] $40,000 to complete a feasibility study.

[1:21:21] That funding allowed the communities to retain AEW, uh, myself

[1:21:25] and, uh, Kyle here.

[1:21:28] to evaluate the corridor, collect and analyze data,

[1:21:32] engage residents and stakeholders, and stakeholders, and identify opportunities for creating a

[1:21:36] continuous west to east Greenway, um, along Stevens Road.

[1:21:41] Through that process, the project team examined the corridor segment by segment,

[1:21:45] worked with the people who live, work, and travel along Stevens Road to develop

[1:21:49] the recommendations presented in this study.

[1:21:51] Next slide, please. Oh, this is perfect actually.

[1:21:54] Uh, the, the study area extends from Lawrence Avenue in Centerline where,

[1:21:59] uh, the statewide trail system, um, uh, the Iron Bell, passes through,

[1:22:04] all the way, um, to the east, uh, Little Mac here in St. Clair Shores.

[1:22:09] The corridor traverses through residential neighborhoods,

[1:22:13] commercial and industrial areas, and civic destinations throughout all four

[1:22:16] communities.

[1:22:18] The purpose of this study was to identify opportunities to improve

[1:22:21] safety, connectivity, recreation, and community identity while providing

[1:22:25] additional transportation options for residents and visitors.

[1:22:30] Next.

[1:22:32] A really important part of this, uh, project was the community engagement,

[1:22:37] uh, that took place.

[1:22:39] Input was received from a really great cross section of people, from residents

[1:22:42] to business owners, community organizations, transportation agencies

[1:22:46] like SMART and MDOT, utility providers, municipal staff, elected

[1:22:51] officials, um, even a couple that are here today, and other very important

[1:22:56] stakeholders.

[1:22:57] Great collaborative conversations were had with so many voices at the table.

[1:23:02] Over the course of approximately one year, the project team conducted seven

[1:23:06] steering committees which was made up of staff members from each city and,

[1:23:09] um, the consulting team here.

[1:23:11] Uh, there were three stakeholder meetings, one of which was held at

[1:23:14] Spinler Park in Eastpoint and another here in, uh, St. Clair Shores at the

[1:23:18] senior activity center.

[1:23:20] There were two public community engagement events, uh, one of which

[1:23:24] was held in partnership with Eastpoint and hosted here at City Hall.

[1:23:28] Uh, corridor wide site visit was conducted with the steering committee

[1:23:33] and a really successful online survey that received an amazing 642 responses.

[1:23:40] Next slide.

[1:23:43] There was a a great amount of feedback from all four communities, 27% of such

[1:23:48] was uh, from St. Clair Shores residents.

[1:23:50] Next slide.

[1:23:52] One thing that really stood out was that across the board, 66% of

[1:23:56] respondents were supportive of something like this happening.

[1:23:59] Um, and if you break that down into communities, St. Clair Shores respondents

[1:24:03] were 72% supportive with 11% being neutral.

[1:24:07] And that's really substantial that your community is saying this is something

[1:24:11] that they want.

[1:24:14] Across all engagement efforts, um, next slide. Thank you.

[1:24:17] Several common themes emerged. So, participants consistently identified

[1:24:22] a desire for improved pedestrian and cycling safety among some of the the

[1:24:26] largest intersections, uh, in Southern Macomb.

[1:24:30] Uh, better crossings at these major intersections were important,

[1:24:34] increased landscaping and beautification, better connections between neighborhoods,

[1:24:38] parks, schools, community destinations and additional recreation opportunities,

[1:24:43] and a stronger identity overall for the corridor for Southern Macomb County.

[1:24:48] Based on those findings, uh, next slide.

[1:24:50] The study recommends a continuous shared use path, which is like a

[1:24:54] paved path that is disconnected from the roadway, um, through much of

[1:25:00] Stevens Road, supported by

[1:25:01] crosswalk improvements, landscaping, lighting,

[1:25:03] wayfinding, green infrastructure,

[1:25:05] uh, trail heads and even placemaking features.

[1:25:09] Specifically in St. Clair Shores, on the next slide.

[1:25:14] Um, the Stevens Greenway would utilize existing sidewalks

[1:25:17] over I-94. So we're connecting right into

[1:25:19] Spinler Park, which is shown there on the left in that map.

[1:25:23] Um, it would then also utilize existing planned um and future

[1:25:27] walkways at the Civic Arena.

[1:25:32] And then terminate at the Senior Activity Center.

[1:25:36] In the small stretch from the Senior Activity Center to Little Mac,

[1:25:40] Sheros could be added to the roadways to help

[1:25:43] uh, bring awareness to

[1:25:45] um, vehicular traffic that there are cyclists present.

[1:25:53] Sheros, just so we know, are just paint on the road that,

[1:25:56] you know, the ones with the arrows and the bike.

[1:26:01] And then at the Senior Activity Center, there's a great

[1:26:04] opportunity to have a trail head

[1:26:06] at the Eastern corridor of this uh Greenway.

[1:26:10] That would provide parking, wayfinding, gathering spaces,

[1:26:13] and connections to the nearby schools,

[1:26:16] parks and community facilities of St. Clair Shores.

[1:26:20] The recommendations of this plan focus on improving safety again,

[1:26:23] connectivity and corridor character

[1:26:25] while establishing a clear and functional end point

[1:26:27] for the Greenway.

[1:26:33] Next slide.

[1:26:35] Uh, so, it's important to understand that this is just

[1:26:39] a study, a planning document, no engineering has been completed,

[1:26:41] no uh construction projects have been authorized and no

[1:26:43] funding commitments are being requested tonight either.

[1:26:46] The recommendations presented in the study are intended to

[1:26:49] provide a framework for future decision-making

[1:26:51] and funding opportunities.

[1:26:54] So what happens next?

[1:26:56] If adopted by all four communities, the study will serve as a guiding

[1:26:59] planning document that can be used to pursue future granting

[1:27:02] uh, funding and additional design work.

[1:27:05] Should future funding become available, additional engineering,

[1:27:07] public engagement, traffic analysis, parking evaluations,

[1:27:10] cost estimating and design work would occur before any construction

[1:27:14] project moves forward.

[1:27:17] Any future project expenditure, grant acceptance or local funding

[1:27:20] commitment would then come back before council for consideration

[1:27:22] and approval.

[1:27:25] And really in summary, the Stevens Greenway feasibility

[1:27:28] study establishes a shared vision for improving connectivity,

[1:27:31] recreation and the quality of life along the Stevens road

[1:27:34] uh, corridor while creating a framework for future

[1:27:37] implementation opportunities.

[1:27:40] Um, with that, I thank you for your time and would

[1:27:42] happy to answer any questions.

[1:27:44] Questions?

[1:27:46] Miss Burgess.

[1:27:47] All right, thank you so much for all that.

[1:27:48] Um, just so the public understands a little bit

[1:27:51] what we're doing tonight by voting is adopting this study.

[1:27:54] Uh, we're not committing to any the city to any construction

[1:27:57] or or future future construction.

[1:28:02] Correct.

[1:28:03] Thank you, Miss Burgess. Yes, that is correct.

[1:28:04] All right. And the study itself, um, identifies right away

[1:28:07] limitations, uh, parking concerns, business access issues

[1:28:12] before this would go any further, would you also have a

[1:28:15] uh, for those impacted, would you have another like sit down

[1:28:18] session with business owners and residents that will be affected.

[1:28:23] Yes, that would be ideal.

[1:28:24] All right, great.

[1:28:25] Uh, and if this moves beyond feasibility study, what funding

[1:28:29] sources, uh, are anticipated.

[1:28:32] There are quite a handful listed in the study.

[1:28:35] Um, a couple that are great candidates would be the TAP grant

[1:28:38] uh, through the state and with federal funding along with

[1:28:42] uh, the Michigan DNR has a trails fund and um, trust fund

[1:28:45] grant program that would be ideal for this as well.

[1:28:49] All right, thank you very much.

[1:28:50] Welcome.

[1:28:51] Mr. Matali?

[1:28:52] Uh, I Councilwoman Burgess touched on a lot of what I

[1:28:55] already had to say.

[1:28:58] Um, but, you know, the St. Clair Shores portion of this would be

[1:29:02] very small, essentially the Senior Center.

[1:29:05] The only thing I would be concerned with is that since

[1:29:08] that is our southern industrial park, essentially, we have

[1:29:11] a lot of trucks that come in and out of that area.

[1:29:13] Uh, I would want to make sure that businesses weren't going

[1:29:16] to be impacted by that and that, you know, financially

[1:29:19] we're not splitting this evenly four ways when we barely

[1:29:22] have any of this, but in general, I'm supportive of

[1:29:24] the project.

[1:29:29] Yes, uh, so, um, when we put the stakeholder meetings together,

[1:29:35] um, we were asked to invite um, who we thought would be

[1:29:38] important members of the community to be part of these

[1:29:41] uh, different meetings.

[1:29:44] And so we asked Grobles to be a part of it.

[1:29:48] Okay, good.

[1:29:49] And they were actually, not actually, they were very uh,

[1:29:52] participatory and they were extremely helpful.

[1:29:54] Um, they were wonderful to work with and that was obviously one

[1:29:58] of Mike Leinweber's main concerns, right? Because a huge

[1:30:01] part of that stretch right there is Grobbel's, and it's their truck docks and

[1:30:05] so we we definitely recognize that this is a highly congested area with trucks

[1:30:11] specifically, and that is something we would for sure have to

[1:30:15] Everyone talks about how the sausage is made.

[1:30:17] We literally have a sausage factory.

[1:30:19] [laughter]

[1:30:20] at the end of this. So,

[1:30:22] Uh, I am supportive of the project.

[1:30:24] I just want to make sure that for the small segment that we have we're not impacting our businesses.

[1:30:29] Mr. Robello?

[1:30:30] Uh, thank you, mayor.

[1:30:32] So,

[1:30:33] First of all,

[1:30:35] thanks for all the time I know you guys put in there.

[1:30:37] How many people were continually attending these meetings?

[1:30:42] Was there 10, 500?

[1:30:45] I would say that, um, on average, there was probably 30 for the stakeholder meetings,

[1:30:50] which we had three of those.

[1:30:52] Um, from the the cities, uh, the communities themselves,

[1:30:56] uh, steering committees were made up I think of like 10.

[1:31:00] Um, and the 30 on average, there was probably a core 20 there and 10 came and go.

[1:31:06] So we had a great cross section of of different voices.

[1:31:09] Okay, so the plan for this is basically to go from, we'll say Vandyke.

[1:31:14] pulling people, I guess it goes both ways, right?

[1:31:17] From Vandyke all the way down to Little Mac here in St. Clair Shores.

[1:31:21] Okay?

[1:31:22] Obviously, we're just a little, just a little, just a little tiny piece of that puzzle, correct?

[1:31:28] Most of the, most of the the East Point to Warren to Centerline,

[1:31:34] are are going to be the biggest benefactors of this. Would that be a correct statement to make?

[1:31:41] Because I I took a ride today down Stevens.

[1:31:44] There's some tricky spots as you go, right? All the way down.

[1:31:47] Absolutely, there's tricky spots.

[1:31:49] when you start getting in the Shaer,

[1:31:52] I don't know how you would possibly, uh, I mean there's a lot of traffic there.

[1:31:57] And that would be a big concern to cross over.

[1:32:02] Now you got to go to the north and then you get back get back up on Stevens.

[1:32:06] Um, you got to cross Grossbeck at some point and keep going.

[1:32:11] into their industrial parks, most of that is an industrial park for them too.

[1:32:15] Right.

[1:32:16] And they're going to get all their stuff fixed up there.

[1:32:18] That's why I sort of look at this and it's a, it's a real plus for their communities

[1:32:22] because it looks to me like they benefit the most out of it.

[1:32:25] Okay?

[1:32:26] They fix all that up there.

[1:32:28] I think one thing that's really important to note here

[1:32:31] is that even though, um, the portion of this entire Greenway,

[1:32:36] um, within St. Clair Shores is short,

[1:32:39] we stopped it at Little Mac on purpose because we wanted to connect it both

[1:32:43] to the 9 Mac DDA and to the nautical mile.

[1:32:49] So the intent is to be able to provide a way to get from

[1:32:53] the west side of Macomb County,

[1:32:57] eastward toward us all the way accessing our 9 Mac downtown and then eventually the lake.

[1:33:05] Cuz there's some there's plenty of points there where there's parking on Stevens as you go down.

[1:33:10] Correct, yes.

[1:33:11] There's there's everything, right? There's regular sidewalk,

[1:33:14] there's cars.

[1:33:15] I'm just trying to

[1:33:17] get a handle on on that part.

[1:33:19] And when those people cross some of the folks there from East Point and

[1:33:24] Center Line, people from other cities,

[1:33:27] you want them to come down through into St. Clair Shores because I think somewhere it says,

[1:33:31] you want them to you want to get them to you want to get them to the Shores Arena, local schools and Lake St. Clair.

[1:33:38] So we'll say now they want to enter our parks.

[1:33:41] Okay, now which have always sort of been resident parks to us, correct?

[1:33:46] Have you guys got that figured out?

[1:33:47] So if I come from Center Line and I'm like, hey, I'm here, this is how it was build,

[1:33:52] what park can I go into?

[1:33:55] Do I have to buy a pass or

[1:33:57] or ride my bike in?

[1:33:58] You don't want to look at it as a single point destination, you want to look at it as an area.

[1:34:03] So, you want to look at it as people coming to social district, right?

[1:34:08] Or people coming to the nautical mile as a whole.

[1:34:11] Another way to look at this is it's also a transportation corridor,

[1:34:15] a non-motorized transportation corridor.

[1:34:17] One of the things that was I'll say shocking to me,

[1:34:21] was one of the attendees, um, is somebody who rides his bike, I think seemingly like everywhere.

[1:34:28] Okay.

[1:34:29] And I mean, it's his, it is his primary form of transportation and

[1:34:32] he was absolutely invaluable in helping us gauge what needs to be

[1:34:37] improved and changed and whatnot.

[1:34:40] Um, but it, you know, he was viewing this as this is where I get from

[1:34:43] point A to point B, not

[1:34:45] people um or there's reasons to draw me over here or go over there,

[1:34:52] right? So so you're looking at it, you want to look at it from both both an eastward and a westward standpoint,

[1:34:59] not from a, well, if they're going

[1:35:01] come, are they going to come to our parks?

[1:35:03] We hope that it's used in many ways.

[1:35:06] Well, that would be probably a big a big one, right?

[1:35:09] They want they want to come to the pool, come to the pier.

[1:35:11] They want to come to the pool, the pier, the

[1:35:13] you know, how do we how are we going to deal with that?

[1:35:16] Has that been is that will that be part of the feasibility study?

[1:35:19] Well, I mean, I was just saying, I want to make this clear.

[1:35:22] Our our parks and our access is not changing at all.

[1:35:24] That's stay in resident only.

[1:35:26] Yeah, but that's not what it says here.

[1:35:28] No, so we have we have some, they are districts.

[1:35:30] And that kind of stuff.

[1:35:32] So, like for example, down Jefferson, we are

[1:35:34] putting those little pocket parks in.

[1:35:36] Those are a little bit different.

[1:35:37] They can come to those, they can come get ice cream.

[1:35:39] They can come to the social district.

[1:35:40] Sure. They can come to all of that.

[1:35:42] Bryce Park is open for non-residents,

[1:35:44] but all of our resident parks are stay in resident park.

[1:35:47] There will be no changing of any of that.

[1:35:51] Okay, so they come to

[1:35:54] I guess I don't want to get into it too much, but

[1:35:56] they're going to come from another city,

[1:35:58] they're going to come down to St. Clair Shores.

[1:36:01] They can't visit Grobles.

[1:36:03] they can part of this here, right?

[1:36:04] They once I get to little Mac, now,

[1:36:07] what do I what do I do? Where do I go?

[1:36:10] Am I going to the social district on?

[1:36:12] You could, absolutely.

[1:36:13] So I make a right to go to the senior.

[1:36:16] You go to the senior center, you could go to a hockey game.

[1:36:19] You could also just travel it,

[1:36:20] right? It could just be a place that you would take a bike ride.

[1:36:23] You don't even need an actual destination.

[1:36:26] You could end at Burger King.

[1:36:28] You could, um, go north.

[1:36:30] No, Culver's up to, yeah.

[1:36:32] You could go North or Culver's, right?

[1:36:34] North up Little Mac if you wanted to.

[1:36:36] I just I just want to sort of get a handle on

[1:36:38] you know, where's my destination? Where do I go?

[1:36:42] Because I'm going to go for, right if I'm coming from Van,

[1:36:45] if I'm coming from Van Dyke,

[1:36:47] I don't get to see the lake too much.

[1:36:49] So I'm coming to the park, right? I'm going to go to the lake.

[1:36:51] Well, there's also many private ventures,

[1:36:54] and that's also what we would be encouraging, right?

[1:36:57] We would be encouraging people to go to have lunch at Mike's

[1:36:58] on the water.

[1:37:00] We would be encouraging people to go see, you know,

[1:37:02] Todd and Virginia.

[1:37:04] We would be encouraging fish bones.

[1:37:06] We would be, you know, that's

[1:37:08] just I mean, that's a major trip.

[1:37:10] technically speaking, Mike's should be

[1:37:13] encouraging people to come to Mikes.

[1:37:15] They should be doing promotions and advertising.

[1:37:18] But that that's another part of it.

[1:37:19] I'm just sort of was curious, where do I end up from here?

[1:37:23] I'm going to end up on the playground equipment.

[1:37:25] Do I go to parks? I I don't know.

[1:37:31] I I it's uh, it's a great idea, but I

[1:37:34] I don't know where they would go.

[1:37:37] And I don't know how many people would use it.

[1:37:39] And I don't want it's just, this is just my opinion.

[1:37:41] Listen, I was invited, I know I got a invitation from you.

[1:37:45] I did not go to these study sessions.

[1:37:47] Okay. I always used to be doing something but

[1:37:50] But that's on me. Okay.

[1:37:52] So I had my chance.

[1:37:56] But just I just want to say one more thing here.

[1:37:58] I just non-motorized transportation.

[1:38:01] creating a connected Greenway between communities,

[1:38:04] enhance streetscape character.

[1:38:07] and everyone really west of I 94 is going to be the one

[1:38:10] that that benefits the most out of that, right?

[1:38:14] because we have our little industrial area

[1:38:16] from I 94 to Little Mac.

[1:38:19] and for opportunity for storm water management and landscaping.

[1:38:24] Liz, thank you.

[1:38:26] I know you guys worked hard on it.

[1:38:28] I had my chance to say a lot.

[1:38:31] I know you was about three meetings or so. I did not go.

[1:38:34] Okay, that's on me.

[1:38:36] Okay, I just had my reservations that's all.

[1:38:39] Thank you. Sorry, thanks for Mayor for letting me be long-winded.

[1:38:41] Thank you. Miss Rusey.

[1:38:43] Thanks. Um, councilman Detali, broadening the concerns

[1:38:45] I had which this already is a congested area is industrial.

[1:38:49] I don't want to see any narrowing ing of the roads

[1:38:51] or anything that would.

[1:38:53] Road diet. Road, yeah, road diet.

[1:38:56] as I don't want to see anything like that because, you know,

[1:38:58] we make sure that people can utilize the road safely.

[1:39:01] That's the whole point.

[1:39:03] But when you are do have an industrial area,

[1:39:05] that also have a big vehicle sometimes.

[1:39:07] in and out.

[1:39:09] And um, one concern I did have though,

[1:39:12] like, um, again, was stay a few times,

[1:39:14] we have a very small segment of this.

[1:39:17] And um, so our segment is actually just covering,

[1:39:19] I think it's segment 8.

[1:39:22] And it says, I'll read the second paragraph

[1:39:24] that actually is relevant to St. Clair Shores

[1:39:26] because most of this document actually is.

[1:39:28] in which it's kind of funny to be up here having to vote on this

[1:39:31] when we represent such a small segment of this big study.

[1:39:35] I did fill out the survey by the way.

[1:39:38] I always think people can tell what answers I write, but

[1:39:42] guys probably can. But um,

[1:39:44] the paragraph relevant to St. Clair Shore states,

[1:39:47] as the Eastern terminus of the corridor,

[1:39:49] the segment establishes destination for Greenway users

[1:39:52] and creates opportunities for future regional connections.

[1:39:56] The St. Clair Shores senior activity center provides a

[1:39:59] logical location for

[1:40:01] trail head amenities while serving as a gathering point for residents

[1:40:05] and visitors and helping to create a memorable endpoint for the corridor.

[1:40:08] What does that mean? Because our senior center's not only just primary

[1:40:13] purpose, the sole purpose is to provide amenities and services for

[1:40:16] senior members who pay to belong to that center.

[1:40:19] We already have a heard enough time keeping non-senior members out of

[1:40:22] the parking lot that we just built for them.

[1:40:25] Um, so [clears throat]

[1:40:26] I don't want to see the purpose of the senior center diluted or

[1:40:30] compromised or to change its focus

[1:40:32] to start providing trail head amenities for visitors and

[1:40:36] disserving as a gathering point for people utilizing this who aren't

[1:40:41] there as senior center members.

[1:40:43] But what what's what does this paragraph mean?

[1:40:46] It it doesn't have any detail to it.

[1:40:53] I um I would like to say that that hasn't been fully studied and that

[1:40:57] would be something that is part of a future design studies.

[1:41:00] Okay. You could say it's a logical location,

[1:41:02] but we don't know what that means.

[1:41:04] We can say it's for a trail head amenities, what would that be?

[1:41:07] What would a trail head amenity be?

[1:41:09] Typically, um, trail head amenities are pretty non-invasive.

[1:41:13] Um, it really it can be just anything from like ten reserved

[1:41:16] parking spaces to um, more or less than that.

[1:41:19] It can be a bench, um, wayfinding signage to say,

[1:41:22] hey, you're here and this is how you get somewhere else.

[1:41:25] Um, a trash can, um, just really small things like that.

[1:41:30] Um, just to kind of help people traversing it, um,

[1:41:34] whether they use a car or not.

[1:41:37] Did we have any, I mean, I know you talked about stakeholders like Robol's,

[1:41:41] were the Matt at the senior center, the Scott's Board, the...

[1:41:45] Um, were they surveyed about utilizing this as a logical

[1:41:49] a logical location for trail head amenities while serving as a

[1:41:52] gathering point for residents and visitors helping to create a memorable

[1:41:55] endpoint for the corridor?

[1:41:57] Uh, we had one of the meetings at the senior.

[1:41:59] I thought it was at, but I'm I mean they were, yeah, Matt was there. Okay.

[1:42:04] Did they have any input on this?

[1:42:06] Do they know this was being discussed? I know this was being

[1:42:09] discussed until I see it in the thing.

[1:42:11] I felt like it was surveyed, but I don't recall being surveyed about

[1:42:15] utilizing the senior activity center as a memorable endpoint for a trail

[1:42:18] head amenities type thing.

[1:42:21] And, you know, this is this is a study, right? We are not.

[1:42:26] Right. That's why I tried to because there's not a lot of pages, but not

[1:42:30] a lot of actual detail in there.

[1:42:33] I know we're not authorizing any money to any specific projects,

[1:42:37] but when am I when am I agreeing to if I sign this resolution?

[1:42:43] You're you're agreeing to the possible idea maybe at some point in the future

[1:42:49] of maybe applying for a grant.

[1:42:52] That's a whole lot of qualifiers.

[1:42:54] It is a whole. And if the grant comes up to before us,

[1:42:56] it's like, well, Councilman Russo, you did vote for that

[1:42:59] resolution, so maybe kind of sort of do it?

[1:43:01] And now you're saying no, and we already spent all this time and money

[1:43:04] on this, getting to this point.

[1:43:06] Like, I was kind of sort of made, okay.

[1:43:09] I just, you know how I feel about these. I have talked about these

[1:43:13] type of consultant driven studies a lot.

[1:43:16] Uh, I will belabor. I have concerns with that.

[1:43:19] Thank you. Thank you.

[1:43:20] Mr. Karen, thank you.

[1:43:22] Yeah, actually, uh, Councilman Robello brought up several of the

[1:43:27] challenges that we talked about in the sacred. They didn't attend

[1:43:29] one of the stakeholder meetings.

[1:43:30] Um, that we actually had over in Spinler Park.

[1:43:33] Um, back in April, I believe that was, right?

[1:43:35] That phone. So, so I think that the real challenge with the study

[1:43:38] going forward is the differences.

[1:43:43] I think in terms of our area, because even the sidewalk that's

[1:43:46] going to go in front of the Civic Arena parking lot, we're already

[1:43:49] Right? That's already part of this parking lot project.

[1:43:52] So pretty much our infrastructure side of it's gonna be done.

[1:43:55] It'll be greening, the sharrows, the putting the bike lane and gears,

[1:44:00] which I think is a great idea for the Half mile roads.

[1:44:03] In that, you know, we had Roseville did some of them in Masonic and that

[1:44:07] to basically say that, you know, those roads with less traffic are

[1:44:11] more ideal for cyclists than the major mile roads.

[1:44:16] And I and to encourage that, I think is a great idea.

[1:44:19] Um, but the real challenge is the differences of you get our area that

[1:44:23] we've got the recreational area, which is really the trail head

[1:44:27] because it's not just a senior center.

[1:44:29] It was, you know, pickleball courts are open to everybody, handball

[1:44:32] courts open to everybody. It's the uh, playground, it's Civic Arena,

[1:44:36] you know, it's all our parks and rec offices are all right there.

[1:44:39] So, it was really when we were talking about that as a trail head.

[1:44:42] It was really the whole complex, just not the senior center.

[1:44:45] Um, but then you do get into East Point and basically the bulk of East

[1:44:48] Point, it's all residential.

[1:44:51] And that, so we got our industrial going to their residential and

[1:44:54] where we talked about where a bit of again, taking away their lanes.

[1:44:57] They weren't in favor of it.

[1:45:01] And that they they learn their lesson went happened at Nine Mile, right?

[1:45:06] When they went through that debate, there was no skinning of Stevens, you know,

[1:45:11] to to move any parking, because that's a residential parking all along there.

[1:45:15] Um, and then you get to Warren where it's backed to industrial

[1:45:18] and even a Centerline's industrial

[1:45:19] and then you get to that intersection at Shainer and Grossback,

[1:45:23] there's no way across in that.

[1:45:25] even even tried to convince the M. guy that was there. Hey, build us a skyway.

[1:45:30] We'll only after you if you can get M.Dot to build a skyway.

[1:45:33] The cross that because that's literally only safe way you could do it.

[1:45:36] It's got to be a very similar bridge to what's over a Grossback at um

[1:45:40] that, um, Metro Parkway.

[1:45:42] Yeah. Yep.

[1:45:43] Um, you need that type of thing to get over Grossback,

[1:45:46] especially when you got shaner going right down the middle of it. So

[1:45:49] Um, I think there's still a lot of challenges going ahead.

[1:45:52] So I guess for the other communities, where are they at in approving the study,

[1:45:56] the this next stage of the study.

[1:45:59] So, um, last week, uh, Warren and Centerline approved their resolutions,

[1:46:05] and the week prior, uh, East Point received and filed theirs.

[1:46:09] So that we are the last one on the line.

[1:46:13] They received and filed it.

[1:46:14] What does that mean?

[1:46:17] That was the that that was the language that I I um.

[1:46:20] That's an approval.

[1:46:21] No, they received it.

[1:46:22] My understanding is that they did not adopt a resolution

[1:46:27] that they received and filed the study.

[1:46:29] and and I don't believe that they adopted a resolution.

[1:46:35] Never mind, Bob. Bob's not paying attention right now.

[1:46:38] Um I wasn't there.

[1:46:42] So, all right, so everyone else needs going ahead of this next stage.

[1:46:47] So, um, so with that,

[1:46:49] what is the timeline for the final study that can basically lead to

[1:46:53] grant dollars in the future.

[1:46:57] I think it is the next is finding a grant opportunity.

[1:47:02] So it basically would be this study that's presented to us tonight.

[1:47:06] to be approved or received and filed.

[1:47:10] by all four communities, so that way you can then start solicit for

[1:47:13] grant opportunities at this point.

[1:47:16] So we basically would take this and say, hey, we would want to build on this

[1:47:20] and that would be a part of our grant application.

[1:47:24] And so they would see that some leg work has been done, this has been thought

[1:47:28] about up to a point.

[1:47:31] And so usually these grants will give you, um, sort of a

[1:47:36] milestone dollars, right?

[1:47:38] So it'll be next could be a more defined plan,

[1:47:42] or it could be a conceptual plan,

[1:47:43] or it could be 60% construction documents,

[1:47:46] or it could be public engagement only.

[1:47:49] So it would be any number of those steps.

[1:47:52] Um for a grant application.

[1:47:55] and then is it basically all four communities are going to be involved

[1:47:59] which each application process then.

[1:48:01] It could be anything.

[1:48:02] It could be we do something on our own if there's something that we find.

[1:48:06] It could be all four communities continue to try to work together.

[1:48:11] or any, you know, any of the four, right?

[1:48:13] Um, maybe not all of them would be able to or want to participate

[1:48:16] in something in the future.

[1:48:20] So equivalent to uh, we're required to have a Parks and Rec

[1:48:23] master plan to apply for things.

[1:48:25] Right? And things that we apply for need to be in our master plan.

[1:48:28] Yeah. Yes.

[1:48:29] Yes, I think that's probably a good way to to to look at it is that

[1:48:33] this is a this is a nice foundation for if you want to apply for

[1:48:36] something else that is um more intense in nature.

[1:48:40] Okay. All right. Thank you.

[1:48:41] Mr. Vitaly.

[1:48:43] I was just going to say,

[1:48:45] um, you did mention when you're speaking to Council Woman's Ru's's question,

[1:48:50] um, about potentially parking spaces being reserved at senior. I think maybe

[1:48:55] may have fumbled over words cuz this is a non-motorized

[1:48:59] mode of transportation, right?

[1:49:01] So we're not talking about parking spaces.

[1:49:05] there are trail heads with parking spaces.

[1:49:08] The idea is you might live a far distance away, too far to bike or walk

[1:49:13] to to from your house to the trail head.

[1:49:18] So you drive to the trail head and then you get on your bike or you take your.

[1:49:23] So that's some that's how some trail heads work.

[1:49:26] To be fair, I don't ever think we're going to get to a point where we've got

[1:49:29] so many bicycle tourers that we can't get parking at the senior center but

[1:49:33] Okay, so maybe I I understand it a little better.

[1:49:36] And there is another place in the I guess the stakeholder comments where

[1:49:42] um I I believe is it State Rut Kleinfell or State Senator Kleinfell?

[1:49:47] Okay, so State Senator Kleinfelt.

[1:49:49] did comment about a closed gas station at the corner of Stevens and Grash at

[1:49:54] potentially being a a trail head or a trail head or a trail stop or something like that, which

[1:49:57] I mean that

[1:50:01] makes sense because quite honestly, the portion of this that needs

[1:50:04] the most work is basically from Van Dyke to Grassi.

[1:50:06] Mmm.

[1:50:07] So I I think that's logical too, if you want my input on it.

[1:50:10] I think that's a logical place for a trail head,

[1:50:13] because really the residential section of East Point

[1:50:17] there isn't much to see and I don't know how excited.

[1:50:20] I mean our senior center's exciting, but it's for St. Clair Shores seniors.

[1:50:22] Mmm.

[1:50:23] So, but I will say this. I'm gonna I'm gonna vote for this,

[1:50:27] and I'll tell you my reasoning behind it is that

[1:50:30] I think that this has the potential to greatly enhance

[1:50:33] the city of East Point, city of Warren, city of Centerline.

[1:50:37] And I certainly don't want to get in the way of that

[1:50:40] because good property values in those communities

[1:50:43] translate to good property values in St. Clair Shores.

[1:50:46] So I'm not going to get in the way of this and I'm going to vote for it.

[1:50:48] But I I think you've kind of got a handle on how we feel up here tonight.

[1:50:53] Mr.

[1:50:54] Oh, I'm sorry. I was going to make a motion to adopt.

[1:50:57] Okay, you can.

[1:50:58] Vitali.

[1:50:59] Mr. Vitale moves to approve.

[1:51:01] Support.

[1:51:02] Supported by Mr. Frederick. Mr. Rabello with a question.

[1:51:05] Yeah, just uh two more quick questions.

[1:51:07] Mmm.

[1:51:08] Uh, who uh Liz or Denise, who's the point person on this?

[1:51:14] Who's the one that's would be our St. Clair Shores, you know, rep?

[1:51:19] Either one of us is fine.

[1:51:21] I I'm um, doesn't matter.

[1:51:23] I I'm more than happy to take any questions from people or ideas.

[1:51:27] Okay.

[1:51:28] See, this is sort of where I

[1:51:30] I think you guys do a great job.

[1:51:33] You know I think you do it.

[1:51:34] Do I think I do, do I think you guys do

[1:51:36] too much and need some help?

[1:51:39] I've told all I've told you both that several different times.

[1:51:44] As far as the maintenance of our portion,

[1:51:49] as far as the security of our, I mean how what change, what is the deal?

[1:51:55] Those are all ideas that would need to be discussed and fleshed out

[1:52:00] if the next step were to ever be taken.

[1:52:03] Because those are big issues, right? Maintenance and security and lighting,

[1:52:08] all of that, very important concepts.

[1:52:12] So five vote yes for this right now.

[1:52:14] I get a second chance when it comes back and if I don't like

[1:52:17] what I see, I vote no.

[1:52:20] Correct.

[1:52:21] I can do that.

[1:52:22] Okay.

[1:52:23] Thank you.

[1:52:25] Mayor.

[1:52:25] Moved by Mr. Vitelli, supported by Mr. Frederick to approve the

[1:52:29] resolution adopting the Stephen's Greenway Feasibility study.

[1:52:31] All in favor?

[1:52:31] Aye.

[1:52:33] All opposed?

[1:52:34] No.

[1:52:35] 6 to 1 it passes.

[1:52:36] Thank you.

[1:52:38] Thank you, council.

[1:52:39] Thank you.

[1:52:42] Item five has been removed. There's some additional questions, so that

[1:52:45] has been removed, which is the approval of the sale of 21606 Pleasant.

[1:52:49] Item six is the request for approval to erect a small cell in City right

[1:52:54] away at 32215 Jefferson.

[1:52:58] Miss Bike, CDI Director.

[1:53:00] Mr. Mayor and council, excuse me.

[1:53:02] [clears throat]

[1:53:03] Thank you for accommodating my apparently no voice

[1:53:07] and short-term disability.

[1:53:12] Um the Michigan small cell statute adopted in 2018

[1:53:16] provides for the placement of small cell wireless poles in the public

[1:53:21] right of way.

[1:53:24] We have learned that these small cells, which have a limited range

[1:53:28] compared to the macro cell towers, Blossom Heath, cell tower,

[1:53:34] are desired for high traffic locations such as next to schools,

[1:53:38] parks, and other gathering places. One of the things that we learned was

[1:53:43] next to schools is ideal because there are parents waiting on their

[1:53:47] cell phones.

[1:53:49] And so the small cells are something that, you know, most wireless

[1:53:56] companies want to be placing in communities.

[1:53:59] According to our Telecommunications Council, the combination of the

[1:54:05] statute and an FCC order makes challenging the location of these

[1:54:09] poles very difficult.

[1:54:12] The city is essentially limited to making sure the poles are not

[1:54:17] taller than 40 feet,

[1:54:20] plus an antenna height of 6 feet,

[1:54:23] and that the facilities located on them are not larger than

[1:54:27] 25 cubic feet, which is approximately the size of a refrigerator.

[1:54:34] So when they sell small cell, when they say small cell, it's a misnomer,

[1:54:39] they're not actually very small.

[1:54:43] Um

[1:54:45] In practice, the city can typically guide the provider to what the city

[1:54:50] continues to be a more ideal location than what was proposed, but the

[1:54:54] statute limits proposed alternatives to 75 feet within the originally

[1:54:58] requested location.

[1:55:01] I'll give you one example that we had

[1:55:04] Um, on in front of the elementary school,

[1:55:09] um, Princeton Elementary School?

[1:55:13] I think that's the one on Statler. Councilman Vitali is familiar with it.

[1:55:18] We had a request to put a small cell there in the middle of the

[1:55:22] sidewalk where all the kids gather.

[1:55:26] We were successful and when I say we, this was a combined effort as

[1:55:31] many of them are in the department between Liz and myself,

[1:55:35] in, um, encouraging them to move closer to another side street.

[1:55:42] What's also important is that these can't be located on DTE transmission,

[1:55:47] the poles that have the transmission lines.

[1:55:50] So it isn't possible to co-locate on those utility poles.

[1:55:55] You may remember in the past, we've had a lot on DTE poles that were

[1:56:00] small wireless. This is an entirely new pole.

[1:56:05] So since January we've received nine requests from a company that

[1:56:10] supports Verizon for small cells.

[1:56:15] Including the one that we're asking for approval tonight at 32215

[1:56:19] Jefferson, with this is at near Jefferson and Masonic.

[1:56:24] This site is the first to obtain all internal approvals, so it does go

[1:56:28] through the regular permitting process, engineering,

[1:56:33] building, water, sewer, everyone has to look at it and approve it.

[1:56:38] Before we would bring it to council.

[1:56:42] Um, so the pole is proposed along the northern side of Tony J's,

[1:56:46] between the restaurant and the gas station,

[1:56:50] and would not be very visible from either Jefferson or from Veterans Memorial.

[1:56:55] So we're asking for approval.

[1:57:00] Questions?

[1:57:01] Mr. Rusey.

[1:57:02] Thank you. So basically state and federal law really ties your hands

[1:57:05] on on this issue.

[1:57:06] Unfortunately, it does.

[1:57:08] I know you mentioned the possibility of co-location, is it possible for

[1:57:12] this particular one correct because of the nature of the DTE polls nearby?

[1:57:16] It is not possible.

[1:57:18] Okay, but we, we did look at that and we, that would obviously be more

[1:57:21] desirable than a new pole.

[1:57:24] Yes.

[1:57:25] I know it won't help with this one, but maybe one of our state reps

[1:57:28] could take this up.

[1:57:30] Uh, there, um, some years ago, back, I think it was in 21 or 22, uh, there

[1:57:36] was a bill, it ended up dying in committee, but there was a bill introduced that

[1:57:39] would require companies to

[1:57:42] have to show to a municipality why co-location was unfeasible before

[1:57:45] a new poll could be erected.

[1:57:48] It died in committee, but that might be a good requirement.

[1:57:50] It won't help with this, but it might help with other circumstances where

[1:57:53] they don't want to put up a new pole, where they don't want to co-locate,

[1:57:56] they rather just put up a new pole, but they would just show like in this

[1:57:59] circumstance it's not feasible.

[1:58:01] It won't help here, but it might help other communities because I know

[1:58:04] these can be a little bit controversial because people are kind of tired of

[1:58:07] all the polls.

[1:58:09] So maybe look that bill up, I think it was from 21, 22. It was, I think,

[1:58:13] Yurk, Y-A-R-U-C-H, if I remember correctly.

[1:58:17] Yeah, it died in committee, but I think that might be one that a lot of municipalities

[1:58:20] will get behind to help in other types of circumstances, especially as these

[1:58:23] type of requests are coming in more and more.

[1:58:27] Just given how much it amends the Michigan Small Cell Act, so it's not

[1:58:30] a new bill, it's an amendment of the existing app.

[1:58:34] That really helped tie your hands a lot with this.

[1:58:36] But I know small cell is trying to prioritize the co-location, so that

[1:58:40] would further, maybe even further, the intent of the act.

[1:58:44] But, okay, that was my question about was my question about was co-location considered, it wasn't,

[1:58:47] unfortunately, and that's not possible here.

[1:58:50] Correct.

[1:58:51] Okay, thank you.

[1:58:53] Mr. Frederick.

[1:58:54] Uh, thanks, Mayor.

[1:58:56] Denise, uh, according to the, uh, the map that we've got in here.

[1:59:00] This pole is right next to Tony J's in that very narrow area between

[1:59:04] the sidewalk and curb.

[1:59:07] Correct.

[1:59:08] Uh, and it's, and it seems like it's very close to his new restaurant, the East.

[1:59:13] It is adjacent to, yes.

[1:59:15] Um, I guess I'm not happy with how far east it is. I would rather move

[1:59:20] it farther west if we have to do this or even across the street.

[1:59:24] There is an alleyway behind the gas station where there's nothing there.

[1:59:28] And probably no one would see it, and it seems to me it would be a

[1:59:31] better spot.

[1:59:32] I don't know what kind of leeway, you said we have 75 feet, is that

[1:59:35] in any direction?

[1:59:37] Uh, I believe it is in any direction. I would have to to defer to

[1:59:41] telecommunications council.

[1:59:43] All right, can we find that out for sure?

[1:59:45] Absolutely. I you know, and, and has uh, Steve been contacted over

[1:59:49] there at Tony J's? Steve has not been contacted, no.

[1:59:52] I mean, I mean, we're going to put it, we're going to put a, a giant

[1:59:55] utility pole with a refrigerator on top.

[1:59:58] And I think we should let him know that.

[2:00:01] Okay. All right, if we can.

[2:00:02] Certainly.

[2:00:03] you know, just

[2:00:04] For clarity, we're not putting it there.

[2:00:06] I know. I know, but we're we would we would be approving it based on the

[2:00:13] on the state and the feds. My other question is, does any of this fall

[2:00:17] under the Metro Act?

[2:00:20] It is not under the Metro Act, it's a separate act. But we do get, you know,

[2:00:27] permit fees and those, you know, there we get compensated like a permit, but we

[2:00:33] don't have ongoing, um, you know, per linear foot or any of those costs,

[2:00:36] which the Metro Act would allow us. All right, maybe maybe if our state

[2:00:42] rep could remember that part of it where we're we don't Because we get we

[2:00:46] get paid based on pole attachments and so, you know, so many it's not very

[2:00:49] much, but it's something, right? And uh, it just worries me that,

[2:00:55] you know, if we're going to have eight of these around the city and then we're

[2:01:00] just saying, oh yeah, sure, come in because the state said we had to let

[2:01:03] you come in and within 75 feet of wherever it is you think you need this.

[2:01:05] Okay. So, uh, Okay.

[2:01:07] That's all I've got.

[2:01:09] Mr. Vitale.

[2:01:11] Um, I think Councilman Frederick must have been using a small cell to

[2:01:17] Bluetooth into my head because he basically said what I was going to say,

[2:01:21] and that is, why don't we put this across the street on the back side of

[2:01:26] a gas station? We're I don't know who cares.

[2:01:29] Is there any easement on that property behind between the residential area and

[2:01:34] the gas station? He said alleys. I don't know if we have an easement there.

[2:01:37] Our city planner just informed me that that's private property.

[2:01:41] All that complete lot.

[2:01:43] A complete lot.

[2:01:45] Okay. Um, well there still has there's no sidewalk, it doesn't appear

[2:01:51] on that north side of Edgewater.

[2:01:55] So we don't have any easement? I mean, we've got a curb there, so gotta have some easement there.

[2:02:05] It is unusual that it doesn't have a sidewalk.

[2:02:08] We have about 10 feet there.

[2:02:12] So, um, between the sidewalk and the property line.

[2:02:16] Uh, or excuse me, the back of curb and the property line.

[2:02:18] Well, even 10 feet seems better than putting this on, you know, what maybe that's five feet.

[2:02:25] Yeah, that we've got for an easement on the south side of Edgewood.

[2:02:30] It's the same. So between the back of curb and the sidewalk,

[2:02:34] um, on the Tony J side is about 10 to 12 feet.

[2:02:39] Well, I would rather put this and and maybe you can instruct me on how I

[2:02:44] should be voting because I would much rather put this on the backside of a

[2:02:48] gas station than next to a potential future restaurant site or something like

[2:02:52] that. So I I would say I would let everyone speak and then I would go for the motion to table.

[2:02:57] Table.

[2:02:58] Okay. Yeah, that's what I was thinking cuz I don't want to vote for this until we sit down and say no and if we have

[2:03:04] that authority to do it. Before we do table, there's no else pencil, so we're...

[2:03:09] Okay. You good, Mr. Vitale? Yes, I'm good.

[2:03:11] Mr. Bellow.

[2:03:13] May I didn't know if I'm going to just say a couple things and I'm not sure

[2:03:16] if anybody else is going to say anything so,

[2:03:19] Um, I I am with uh, Chris Vitali. Uh, I took a look. This thing is uh,

[2:03:27] or around rather. This thing is right on top of the guy.

[2:03:31] Okay, and heaven sakes, we have enough going out right now, okay?

[2:03:36] And

[2:03:40] I have some issues with where that's placed.

[2:03:43] Yeah, a couple quick questions.

[2:03:45] Is that that's over 500 feet from the school?

[2:03:50] Um, I don't know the distance from the school.

[2:03:54] Because isn't there rules for these things?

[2:03:56] Not not for a distance from a school, no.

[2:03:59] No? No. Okay.

[2:04:02] We have ones proposed for much closer.

[2:04:04] So I I you know, just look into that, okay?

[2:04:07] Sure. Absolutely.

[2:04:08] Uh, there's a lot going on down there and uh, I just don't think it's the best spot for it and

[2:04:18] um, I would make a motion.

[2:04:23] Mr. Mr. Vitelli, just wait. There's Miss Burgess has her pencil up. So

[2:04:26] if you could just let everyone speak and then I'll I'll I'll take I'll take a motion to table.

[2:04:30] I think we're all on the same page. Just let everyone speak so that we can get that out.

[2:04:33] Sure. Are you good? Yep.

[2:04:36] Ms. Burgess.

[2:04:37] Um, well, if we're going to table it, I don't know if uh all this, but I'm

[2:04:41] going to say, uh, we received nine requests since January and this is the first one coming to us this year.

[2:04:47] Um, are the other eight proposal for similar commercial locations or any proposal near residential?

[2:04:53] There is a combination of both.

[2:04:55] Commercial and residential applications.

[2:04:58] Okay, so, I know that, uh, the state law significantly limits our ability to deny these.

[2:05:03] but what discretion does the city

[2:05:06] have to exact placement,

[2:05:08] um particularly with a

[2:05:10] proposed location,

[2:05:12] like one that we're kind of disagreeing about right now,

[2:05:14] Um but one that could affect a residential neighborhood,

[2:05:17] a park or any other sensitive locations?

[2:05:21] We we have limited abilities,

[2:05:23] they do have to comply with other ordinances,

[2:05:26] they do, for example, we we have

[2:05:29] two proposed um that fall within the corner clearance,

[2:05:33] which we have denied.

[2:05:36] Um so they must propose a

[2:05:38] different location for that.

[2:05:41] If it it is impacted or it impacts water, sewer,

[2:05:45] anything like that, any

[2:05:48] underground infrastructure,

[2:05:50] we have the the ability to deny it.

[2:05:53] Um, if it is just because we don't want it,

[2:06:01] Um, then we don't have the ability.

[2:06:04] not a good enough excuse.

[2:06:05] Yes. Although we we'd like to try and sometimes.

[2:06:10] So, um, who is uh responsible

[2:06:12] for maintaining the poll,

[2:06:14] the equipment, repairing damage to any of the right of way

[2:06:17] or removing equipment if it's abandoned.

[2:06:20] Um, it would be incumbent upon the wireless provider to do that.

[2:06:24] So they are required to do restoration if necessary.

[2:06:28] I think we've heard about the quality of that in the past.

[2:06:33] Um, but they would be, it would be a stipulation that if it's

[2:06:35] abandoned, they have to remove it.

[2:06:38] Okay. Thank you very much.

[2:06:39] Mr. Karen.

[2:06:41] Thank you.

[2:06:42] Denise, so probably as part of the follow-up on this one,

[2:06:47] we'll be meeting with our telecommunications attorney

[2:06:50] to basically in order to give them to agree to move it across

[2:06:53] the street basically.

[2:06:55] But in that conversation, could

[2:06:57] you bring up with them of what type of notification

[2:07:00] we can give to a property owner

[2:07:02] that's going to have this in front or adjacent their property

[2:07:06] and to get it from him. So the

[2:07:09] property owners understand what their rights on this as well.

[2:07:11] You know, our hands are tied by state and federal law.

[2:07:14] You know, they're allowed to do this within a certain area,

[2:07:17] but imagine there's got to be some right the property owner has

[2:07:21] and we ought to have something from them that we can give the

[2:07:24] property owner, especially as well as before it's being

[2:07:26] considered, make sure the property owners are given notice.

[2:07:29] Okay. You know, again.

[2:07:30] You would think the telecommunications company would be required to do that

[2:07:33] just like we're required to do it

[2:07:36] when we're rezoning property,

[2:07:37] doing site plans. The law doesn't require me to do that,

[2:07:39] but it's a good thing to do to Councilman Frederick's point.

[2:07:42] Absolutely. Thank you.

[2:07:44] Anything last, Mr. Frederick?

[2:07:46] And uh I I agree with what John was saying on that and uh

[2:07:51] you know, like the what is it? 500 foot,

[2:07:53] you mail it out and make them pay, right?

[2:07:56] Because we can collect fees for what notifications.

[2:08:00] Uh the other question I had is on the uh what Miss Burgess said about,

[2:08:04] you know, removing the equipment.

[2:08:06] Can is there a chance that we can get a bond so that it's

[2:08:09] we hold it, if they don't come and take it down, we

[2:08:12] cash the bond and take it down?

[2:08:16] Um, we do get a bond for the building permit.

[2:08:20] Um, I can certainly talk.

[2:08:22] A thousand dollars is the largest bond we can put out.

[2:08:23] Right. Right.

[2:08:25] I can talk with uh counsel about

[2:08:27] a bond that we would hold.

[2:08:30] I mean, there's there's bonds for these kinds of things all over

[2:08:31] the country, right?

[2:08:33] So let's not let that slip by and just in case we can.

[2:08:38] All right. Okay. Thank you.

[2:08:40] Do you need a motion to? I'll entertain a motion, Mr. Frederick.

[2:08:42] I'll move to table. Support.

[2:08:44] moved by Mr. Frederick, supported by Miss Rusey to table.

[2:08:47] All in favor? Aye. Aye.

[2:08:49] All opposed, seven and nothing.

[2:08:49] Thank you. Thank you, Council.

[2:08:51] You have the direction, right?

[2:08:53] All right. Thank you.

[2:08:55] [coughing]

[2:08:56] Item seven is carry over requests for fiscal year 27, Mr. Light.

[2:09:00] Yes. So um unfortunately, um Mr. John Walters, our finance director

[2:09:04] was unable to be here tonight, uh so that's why I would carry, I would

[2:09:07] take care of the carryovers.

[2:09:09] Um, as Council is well aware, we do our carryovers each year, um,

[2:09:12] before we kind of get started on everything.

[2:09:15] A lot of these carryovers are street, uh, sewer infrastructure

[2:09:18] projects that start in the early spring, continue on throughout

[2:09:21] our fiscal year which ends June 30th.

[2:09:24] So a lot of these we're going to see on here, you're going to say,

[2:09:26] isn't that road already done or isn't this project already done?

[2:09:29] It is, it was just still working on and uh, incompletion

[2:09:32] in July.

[2:09:35] So this is a lot of the projects that started in July.

[2:09:37] Um, if you look at our general fund, this is actually relatively small.

[2:09:40] Um, you see the federal grant that we had budget for for our police

[2:09:45] fee uh vessel, we have not received that money yet.

[2:09:48] That is obviously coming in the general fund and then transferring out.

[2:09:51] So it's a quick in and out process.

[2:09:53] Um, we also have the federal grants for our kite lighting that we did

[2:09:57] at uh Kite Park for our municipal lightings that is 81,435

[2:09:59] that we've not received through the DNR through our closeout.

[2:10:04] that is just the final billing that we will be receiving.

[2:10:08] And then the final project or the final item that is on there

[2:10:13] is once again another kind of in and out.

[2:10:17] Uh, it is our state grant for the passport grant that we received

[2:10:20] for our ADA bathrooms at our Civic Center.

[2:10:21] That was a $150,000 grant.

[2:10:24] And then obviously, the offset for our expenses that we have

[2:10:26] budgeted for the 200,000.

[2:10:28] Um, I know that is in the professionals and that will be

[2:10:31] going out to bid here relatively soon.

[2:10:34] But all the paperwork and everything is in through,

[2:10:38] um, the rec passport grant and that will be progressing,

[2:10:42] but once again that is transferring over.

[2:10:43] So, that is the general fund,

[2:10:45] um, and then we wanted to, do you have any questions over

[2:10:49] the general fund or do you want me just to kind of continue on through

[2:10:51] each one and then ask questions.

[2:10:53] Yeah. Make it through them.

[2:10:54] So then the uh major street find expenditures, as you can kind of see,

[2:10:59] uh the large one that is in here is our bridge uh design inspections.

[2:11:03] Once again, this is the construct over the Milk River.

[2:11:07] Uh our local streets, the big one here was the Playview reconstruction.

[2:11:10] Um, and then you also have the other large one here is the Bry's Park

[2:11:14] Walking Path that the bid came back a little bit high. We are re-bidding

[2:11:18] that project out and seeing where that price comes in, but we are

[2:11:21] carrying over that money that was budgeted.

[2:11:24] Uh, the local street mileage, um, that is the alley pavement.

[2:11:28] Those alleys are progressing. This is a small portion, as you guys are well

[2:11:32] aware. We budget at 600,000. This is the $53,000 closeout.

[2:11:36] Uh, Shady Lane, same thing. Uh, that's a big one in there.

[2:11:39] Uh, DLEF, these were for the uh, new lockers and file storage

[2:11:44] that are actually in the facility now. Once again, like I said, a lot of these

[2:11:48] are already uh, have been purchased. They just didn't hit for the fiscal year.

[2:11:53] Um, for the library, you got the federal grants, uh, the library

[2:11:57] renovations, and then you have the library renovations that are very

[2:12:01] near completed. I'm very happy to press

[2:12:03] that our open house for the library building would be October 3rd. So then

[2:12:07] we'll be open to the public.

[2:12:09] Um, we have our golf course expenditures. This was for the

[2:12:13] golf cart path rehab. Uh, there is a little portion that they are still

[2:12:17] uh, kind of working with uh, Best and AEW.

[2:12:21] And then you have our sewer, uh, separation project.

[2:12:25] Uh, you have this is the Alexander, uh, separation project.

[2:12:29] And then that part right there, the separation is completed.

[2:12:33] The pipe is in, they will be working on the road, uh, at

[2:12:36] the end of this month.

[2:12:38] Um, you have some sanitary sewer lining projects and then under

[2:12:42] the water fund,

[2:12:43] you have uh, some concrete patching, a little bit of closeout there.

[2:12:47] Uh, the water meter replacement that we're continually working on.

[2:12:50] The water reservoir generator install.

[2:12:53] Uh, the Alexander water main project, and then 12 mile,

[2:12:56] uh, water main project.

[2:12:58] So, uh, these are all just to carry, oh, I'm sorry, one more page.

[2:13:03] Um, we have storm water funds, uh, same thing, a little bit of

[2:13:07] concrete patching that we're left. The Alger pump station generator

[2:13:11] install. Uh, a little bit of sewer grouting.

[2:13:13] And then under the motor pool, these are some of the vehicles

[2:13:17] that we've purchased. Um, unfortunately, it takes ambulance

[2:13:20] now quite a little bit to receive.

[2:13:21] Uh, same thing with the 2020, sorry, 2025 light rescue truck.

[2:13:27] Uh, the place vessel that's gone back to the boat that we

[2:13:30] received. Um, and then the DLEFs that we just purchased, um, recently.

[2:13:37] And then we also have the BSNA upgrades as council just approved,

[2:13:41] and then we have a few computer upgrades that we're still finishing

[2:13:44] up at, and those were mostly done at the police building that still

[2:13:48] haven't been transferred over yet.

[2:13:49] Mr. Keren?

[2:14:50] Um, yeah, first, great job in terms of the general fund

[2:15:03] looking at how we can rebid it to

[2:15:05] hopefully get more people. Which

[2:15:07] one was that project.

[2:15:08] This is for both of them.

[2:15:09] They were bit together as as a package.

[2:15:11] Okay.

[2:15:13] Interesting.

[2:15:14] Hmm.

[2:15:15] So what's the uh timeline in terms of reconsidering those designs and

[2:15:22] Once we have the approval of the carryover then we're going to move

[2:15:25] forward with, you know, our next steps.

[2:15:27] Okay.

[2:15:28] So where are the steps to kind of get to kind of get to where we're going to have something

[2:15:31] that people would be interested in because

[2:15:34] I think it's kind of shocking that we're any bids.

[2:15:38] for large projects like that and especially for like insol and generator.

[2:15:43] Yeah, we're we're meeting with Fishback there, the engineers that are helping

[2:15:46] us uh put this together.

[2:15:48] Okay. All right. Thank you.

[2:15:51] Ms. Rusey.

[2:15:52] Thank you.

[2:15:53] Um, just a couple minor things.

[2:15:55] Um, you might want to check with uh John.

[2:15:56] I assume this is just a function of rounding, but I'm not sure.

[2:16:00] There's a, I did the, I went through and I double-checked the math.

[2:16:03] There's a dollar discrepancy in the sewer-funded expenditures.

[2:16:06] It trended 255 and 72 uh 54.

[2:16:10] And again, could it just be a function of rounding? I don't know.

[2:16:13] We're dealing with whole numbers here.

[2:16:14] And uh also storm water funds, the expenditures are also,

[2:16:17] there's another dollar that's been uh discrepancy.

[2:16:21] It should end at 847, 7848,

[2:16:24] which then brings the actual.

[2:16:26] And the funny thing is the

[2:16:27] expenditures is actually a dollar off too for the total amount to 806

[2:16:30] for the total to be 045.

[2:16:34] So again, just little dollar discrepancies.

[2:16:36] My assumption is it's a function of rounding, but

[2:16:38] It is.

[2:16:39] Um, okay.

[2:16:40] Pretty good.

[2:16:41] Thank you.

[2:16:42] just minor, but

[2:16:44] I always look at the last digits and I see if they made sense

[2:16:45] with what the total is.

[2:16:47] And when it's 294 and it adds up to 15, the last number

[2:16:50] doesn't end in a five, ends with a four, it's like, okay,

[2:16:52] something's off here.

[2:16:55] So, I always eyeball them.

[2:16:57] Okay. Thank you.

[2:16:59] Mr. Vitali.

[2:17:00] Um, I'm only going to mention this not in relation to budget

[2:17:02] amendment, but

[2:17:04] since Aldeline uh pump station was brought up,

[2:17:07] I'm going to ask, is that building going to receive

[2:17:11] any type of update or anything?

[2:17:14] I'm told the roof there holds holding water.

[2:17:17] There are some trees that are like really too close to the building,

[2:17:19] undermining it.

[2:17:20] It really needs, it's looks pretty shabby.

[2:17:24] There are some building improvements that we included with the project.

[2:17:27] Okay, good.

[2:17:28] Could I could I see those?

[2:17:29] Could I get sent copy of that?

[2:17:31] Sure. All right, thank you.

[2:17:33] We'll need a motion to approve.

[2:17:34] Move to approve.

[2:17:36] report.

[2:17:37] Moved by Mr. Frederick, supported by Mr. Karen to approve the fiscal

[2:17:39] year 2026-27 carryover request as presented.

[2:17:42] All in favor?

[2:17:43] I.

[2:17:44] All opposed.

[2:17:45] 7 to zero. Thank you.

[2:17:48] Fritz contract purchase order request to approve the sanitary

[2:17:51] sewer root control project, Mr. Babcock DPW director.

[2:17:56] So we have an annual maintenance program on our sanitary

[2:17:58] sewer system where we go throughout the city

[2:18:00] and we clean and then televise our sanitary sewers,

[2:18:03] and there are some sections of sewers

[2:18:05] that have extensive tree roots in them. So this is part of our

[2:18:08] maintenance program.

[2:18:14] Um, and we are requesting approval to move forward with this

[2:18:16] uh sanitary sewer root treatment project.

[2:18:22] Anyone out to bid, right?

[2:18:25] Last year, we went out to bid. This is proposing the

[2:18:27] HGAC buy program that we use the unit prices because when we went out

[2:18:30] to bid,

[2:18:33] Um, the bidder, we received one bid, and the bidder's unit prices were

[2:18:36] higher than through this program.

[2:18:39] So we're requesting to use the lower unit prices through this project.

[2:18:42] Which is the cooperative bid program.

[2:18:43] Yes.

[2:18:44] Questions?

[2:18:45] Ms. Rusey.

[2:18:46] Thank you.

[2:18:47] Um, issue with the purchase order.

[2:18:50] where it says check if applicable, he put other contract to where a

[2:18:53] blanket purchase order approved at the this council meeting.

[2:18:56] It should have the chart mark at other entity bid if we're doing a

[2:18:58] co-op and we're getting the pricing through co-op,

[2:19:01] which it doesn't say the HGAC co-op pricing is

[2:19:03] what we're utilizing.

[2:19:06] So the purchase order needs to be updated to properly reflect that.

[2:19:10] And also just, I guess, a procedural question given

[2:19:12] the recommended motion is to approve the blanket purchase order.

[2:19:16] But in the blanket purchase order, it says contract award a blanket

[2:19:18] purchase order approved.

[2:19:20] So should the motion also state where we're in a contract?

[2:19:23] Yes.

[2:19:24] Okay, it doesn't right now.

[2:19:26] So whoever makes the motion, it's not, and if they read it, it's not

[2:19:27] just a blanket purchase or

[2:19:29] we're approving on contract in addition to the blanket PO.

[2:19:34] Okay. Thank you.

[2:19:35] Mr. Vitali.

[2:19:36] I'm just going to comment kind of on the same thing I asked about the

[2:19:39] pump station.

[2:19:41] I'm still waiting to see some of those photos of tree roots in the

[2:19:44] sewer system because honestly,

[2:19:46] I'd like to bring that up during council comments, so residents can

[2:19:48] see what we're doing

[2:19:52] And I feel like I last time I asked, I wore snow boots in here so

[2:19:57] We uh, we have been meeting and discussing that, that's in the works.

[2:20:01] to have a presentation put together for you.

[2:20:04] Okay.

[2:20:06] you know, if you can't do a presentation

[2:20:07] tional. I'll take a picture.

[2:20:09] Yeah, it'll be a report.

[2:20:11] Okay.

[2:20:14] Miss Burgess.

[2:20:16] Um, I, same kind of lines that uh,

[2:20:18] Mr. Vitelli had mentioned um.

[2:20:21] How do we track the areas that

[2:20:24] receive root treatments to determine

[2:20:26] how effective and how long it lasts?

[2:20:27] And how how long does it usually last?

[2:20:31] They it it's needs to be retreated

[2:20:35] every like three to five years.

[2:20:36] So we do keep a running list of the locations we've been to.

[2:20:39] And you know, within that three to five years,

[2:20:41] we try to return and retreat them again.

[2:20:43] And we've used cameras to go back and confirm, you know, that the

[2:20:46] treatment is working.

[2:20:48] So we have pictures.

[2:20:49] Yes.

[2:20:51] What was only?

[2:20:53] Mr. Rabello.

[2:20:54] Brian, how many uh bids did you get

[2:20:57] on this?

[2:20:58] Did you say one?

[2:20:59] Just the one last year.

[2:20:59] Okay.

[2:21:01] Now, this next question would be for Matt.

[2:21:04] Matt.

[2:21:05] I've probably mentioned, I don't know,

[2:21:08] I guess could be for the the city manager to,

[2:21:11] I probably mentioned three or four times up here.

[2:21:14] that to check out new ways

[2:21:16] to get bids,

[2:21:17] Okay.

[2:21:18] Did you check out the alternative way?

[2:21:25] to get new bids?

[2:21:27] What's that?

[2:21:27] They didn't bid this out this year.

[2:21:29] They didn't try. They wanted it just to go with co-op.

[2:21:31] I was going to be

[2:21:32] Okay, but you know what, thank you, but it really

[2:21:34] doesn't matter, because the

[2:21:35] next time around

[2:21:38] Is there, are we doing anything

[2:21:40] to get the different bids

[2:21:41] from the the government agencies?

[2:21:43] Like on a total national

[2:21:45] spectrum.

[2:21:46] Yeah, so if you can see

[2:21:49] I'm bringing this up again because I never did get an answer.

[2:21:51] That's all.

[2:21:52] So, uh, Council, as you can see,

[2:21:53] obviously, during COVID,

[2:21:54] it was hard and we were try like

[2:21:56] everything that was out there,

[2:21:57] there were so many jobs that were out there.

[2:21:59] A lot of these are construction companies and they were just

[2:22:02] overworked at that time because of the ARPA funds and everything.

[2:22:05] At when we go out to bid recently,

[2:22:08] you kind of start to see even with our road projects,

[2:22:10] we're getting 12, 14, 15 bids

[2:22:12] for a lot of these projects

[2:22:14] because this all the municipalities

[2:22:15] used that same bid network

[2:22:18] that is out there,

[2:22:19] and that's what they all use now.

[2:22:21] This what you're asking for here,

[2:22:22] This is a little bit unique.

[2:22:23] This is sanitary sewer clean and televising. There's not

[2:22:27] too many companies that actually

[2:22:28] have the finite work that's

[2:22:30] required to be able to go in

[2:22:32] and do this work.

[2:22:33] If you remember last year we used the HGAC program

[2:22:38] and we got our prices back from that.

[2:22:41] Council then decided, let's not use that purchase program that

[2:22:44] we purchased through. Let's go out to bid.

[2:22:46] We then went out to bid and we only got the one provider

[2:22:49] which is Dukes. They've actually

[2:22:51] bought up a lot of these smaller companies that did it

[2:22:52] and they hire them, they still

[2:22:54] work now underneath Dukes.

[2:22:56] Um, and Duke thing came back with a higher price than what

[2:22:59] was the HGAC price.

[2:23:01] Okay.

[2:23:02] So we reached out to Dukes and we said, why are our prices

[2:23:04] higher than what this? When they

[2:23:06] bid for some of these large big consorciums, they have to

[2:23:09] promise that is going to be the lowest bid that they will give

[2:23:11] out through any of their bid programs.

[2:23:13] So if people aren't paying into that to get the better discount,

[2:23:18] then they cannot give you based on a bid.

[2:23:20] However, we did reach out to

[2:23:22] Dukes and we said, hey, last year,

[2:23:24] um, we are a paying member.

[2:23:26] Can we get the low HGAC price?

[2:23:29] They held the price last year.

[2:23:31] So this year, rather than going through the uh,

[2:23:34] bid process again, knowing

[2:23:35] what the results are going to be,

[2:23:37] We are utilizing the HGAC.

[2:23:40] This is a little bit unique,

[2:23:41] uh, and there's also other big consortiums that we used to.

[2:23:44] These do get bid out through the consortium. It's a large,

[2:23:47] a lot of municipalities pay into these consortiums.

[2:23:50] So it goes out nationwide

[2:23:52] and then you can piggyback off to get the lowest national price.

[2:23:56] And this is a national firm,

[2:23:58] like I said, there's very unique

[2:24:00] kind of company that goes through and does sewer inspections.

[2:24:03] I guess my point of even saying something that these

[2:24:07] bids and stuff, Brian might have something coming up.

[2:24:09] It could be somebody else,

[2:24:11] could be Parks and Rec.

[2:24:13] And I just, when I asked the questions,

[2:24:15] Now, that's great. I got an answer.

[2:24:17] But it's a lot easier and smoother if someone just

[2:24:20] lets me know, like an email

[2:24:22] going forward that this isn't

[2:24:25] a, this isn't a feasible thing.

[2:24:28] Because just a question.

[2:24:30] And sometimes you win on them.

[2:24:33] So, thank you for the answer up here.

[2:24:35] Thank you.

[2:24:35] You're welcome.

[2:24:36] So, a motion to be in order?

[2:24:38] Moved to approve.

[2:24:39] Support.

[2:24:40] So you're approving them the amount with a contract to right.

[2:24:43] Yep.

[2:24:45] The addition by Mr. Karen supported by Mr. Federick.

[2:24:47] All in favor?

[2:24:48] Aye.

[2:24:49] All opposed.

[2:24:50] 7-0. Thank you, Mr. Fedock.

[2:24:54] A D's request to approve a contract modification for the

[2:24:57] 11-mile patching project.

[2:24:59] Denise.

[2:25:00] Kyle from AW.

[2:25:03] Yes.

[2:25:04] Thank you, Mayor.

[2:25:05] Uh, Kyle at AW.

[2:25:07] Uh, April 7th of this year we pool

[2:25:10] publicly bid out the 11 mile patching project

[2:25:12] between Jefferson and Little Mac.

[2:25:15] Uh, that was awarded to Florence.

[2:25:18] There was seven bidders for that project on April 28th.

[2:25:21] With contingencies the price awarded was just under $500,000.

[2:25:26] The city budgeted in fiscal year 27 a million dollars for this project.

[2:25:30] But the budget was approved on April 27th, I believe.

[2:25:34] where you had your public hearing.

[2:25:36] So, the design 11 mile was initiated in spring.

[2:25:39] with the objective of completing construction before Lake View schools

[2:25:43] got back into session on August 31st.

[2:25:46] Florence did finish the project

[2:25:48] on August 29th, a couple days before school started.

[2:25:54] And when we went out there to look at it really close before the bid,

[2:25:58] we found quite a bit more deteriorated concrete.

[2:26:01] We also found that every single structure was shot.

[2:26:04] I put some pictures in of the structures.

[2:26:07] We had to replace 35 structures in this whole project.

[2:26:10] This is between both phases.

[2:26:13] So the phase in I don't have the exact breakout in phase one and two.

[2:26:17] Uh, but due to the ongoing construction on Jefferson,

[2:26:20] as you know the Jefferson relief is being constructed there,

[2:26:22] part of the detour of Jefferson actually runs down 11 mile.

[2:26:26] It runs from Jefferson to Harper on the westbound lane

[2:26:30] and then just west of Harper to the turnaround

[2:26:33] and then heads east to Harper southbound.

[2:26:37] We with discussion with the city,

[2:26:40] we asked the city through the city manager to defer that work

[2:26:44] to fiscal year 28 so we didn't impact the detour route.

[2:26:47] And patching programs in a Boulevard street, you need to occupy one

[2:26:51] with your construction, one lane with your construction equipment.

[2:26:54] And there's times where you actually have to remove the concrete

[2:26:57] from the drive lanes, which causes long delays.

[2:27:00] So if we would have had that,

[2:27:02] we would have been putting a detour route into another construction zone

[2:27:05] for people could be waiting up to 15 minutes for a concrete truck

[2:27:08] to pour its concrete.

[2:27:10] or to remove or to remove the concrete.

[2:27:16] Um, like I said, we added quite a few catch basins after the bid.

[2:27:19] Uh, the project cost, which was approved by council, was

[2:27:23] just under $500,000 with contingencies.

[2:27:26] Based on the additional concrete work, catch basins,

[2:27:30] the project is $120,000 over the initial bid with contingencies.

[2:27:37] This project was budgeted for a million dollars.

[2:27:40] The the total for this fiscal year 27 work would be $620,000.

[2:27:46] And we're asking that the additional work, which is about

[2:27:49] 420, slightly over the million dollars total,

[2:27:52] be deferred to fiscal year 28

[2:27:54] once Jefferson is completed in August of sorry,

[2:27:57] August of calendar year 2027,

[2:28:02] so that the rest of the project can be done.

[2:28:05] Uh, we put a recommendation, we're asking for, we're asking a council

[2:28:09] approve $100,000 for a fiscal year 27.

[2:28:12] project budget.

[2:28:13] And we're looking for uh looking for direction on whether we rebid this.

[2:28:20] Uh, phase two in fiscal year 28,

[2:28:22] or we can come back in spring with a change order from the contractor.

[2:28:26] We did talk to Florence, who's the contractor, and based on diesel

[2:28:29] prices, he was unable to give a guarantee that he could hold

[2:28:32] his prices for next August.

[2:28:35] So if we were to if we were to entertain any contract change order

[2:28:40] with with Florence for that work,

[2:28:43] I'd recommend that we come back in spring with any prices at that time

[2:28:46] or we could bid it at that time also.

[2:28:48] Mr. Land,

[2:28:49] Yep, I would uh recommend uh council, um, after what they uh

[2:28:53] AW Kaio had said, um, that we do rebid this project for the second part.

[2:28:58] Um, as Kaio had mentioned, there was a lot of additional work.

[2:29:02] This will be after the Jefferson project.

[2:29:04] uh, which will incur,

[2:29:06] we want to make sure that project is completely done.

[2:29:08] That road is open back up before we shut that down.

[2:29:12] We will also have to work with kind of the school is not necessarily

[2:29:16] directly impacted, but still we want to make sure we do this

[2:29:19] when school isn't impacted.

[2:29:22] Um, but also, um, you know, I I think uh

[2:29:28] as of right now, um I feel that going out to bid would be the

[2:29:31] the better scenario.

[2:29:35] Mr. Karen?

[2:29:36] Thank you.

[2:29:38] So, the additional 120,000, which is the bare minimum

[2:29:41] you're requesting tonight,

[2:29:43] that's for work that's already been done.

[2:29:45] That is correct.

[2:29:46] Right?

[2:29:46] Because of all the additional catch basins that it get repaired.

[2:29:50] Yes, and the concrete, as unfortunately this was a street

[2:29:52] kind of sectioning program and as

[2:29:54] we were tearing away some of the concrete, it just kept crumbling

[2:29:57] with us. Yeah.

[2:29:58] Okay.

[2:29:59] So, were the catch basins inspected when this was first put together?

[2:30:06] They weren't prior to the bid and the reason is is because

[2:30:10] the timing of the project and getting it out for bid.

[2:30:13] Uh, we're working with council's approved budget,

[2:30:17] right? That this was a planned project.

[2:30:19] We we started we started the work at AWW on March 11th

[2:30:23] and we got this out to bid on August 7th.

[2:30:27] April, sorry, April 7th

[2:30:29] and then we recommended the award shortly thereafter.

[2:30:32] Anytime we're doing any road project, checking the catch

[2:30:35] basins is normal, isn't it?

[2:30:37] It is. It is.

[2:30:38] But time was of the essence to get this out to bid.

[2:30:41] So we had to estimate that,

[2:30:43] and we actually went back through the design.

[2:30:44] That's okay. I'm good.

[2:30:45] Okay, I'm good.

[2:30:47] So, all right. So then, yeah, so okay, so we have to approve

[2:30:50] 120,000 for work that's already been done.

[2:30:53] Okay.

[2:30:54] Um, but yeah, I would agree

[2:30:55] the balance of the project to rescope it, rebid it,

[2:30:58] inspect everything.

[2:31:01] Um, we got plenty of time to do that.

[2:31:03] Yes. And that way, because we'll be done with the other

[2:31:06] work on Jefferson going north,

[2:31:09] and we'll be done the southern end by August. So,

[2:31:13] Okay. Thank you.

[2:31:14] Miss Rusey.

[2:31:15] Thank you.

[2:31:16] Actually, John, um, asked the question I was going to ask of

[2:31:18] how, how was this missed? I mean, this seems like a very

[2:31:21] significant miss.

[2:31:22] I know sometimes you start doing construction, more work

[2:31:25] reveals itself, and that's completely understandable.

[2:31:27] but this seems like they were very significant issues

[2:31:29] that were missed that add up to this amount of money.

[2:31:33] Yeah. Um, they weren't missed.

[2:31:35] Like I said,

[2:31:36] They just weren't looked for.

[2:31:37] They weren't they weren't looked at prior to the bid because we

[2:31:40] needed to get the bid out. We looked at it immediately after the bid.

[2:31:42] I would rather have not done this at this time than have to

[2:31:45] it and then be in this position of doing it,

[2:31:47] you know, discovering these things that or at least be

[2:31:49] made aware of,

[2:31:52] hey, when we um were discussing putting this project out to bid,

[2:31:55] yeah, we only have all the the the stuff looked at.

[2:31:58] So it could be more and having that kind of heads up.

[2:32:01] I think we assume every time a project comes to us that the

[2:32:04] engineering is done.

[2:32:07] And the design is done and the

[2:32:09] project is going to be what it says.

[2:32:12] Like I said, we all understand sometimes surprises, but these

[2:32:14] seem to be very predictable surprises.

[2:32:16] Which means they're not surprises at all.

[2:32:18] But we weren't just not made aware of this.

[2:32:21] That there were end cuts or there were cuts taken in the

[2:32:24] process to speed things along.

[2:32:26] And I'm not a fan of that.

[2:32:28] And now we're in a situation where I'll vote for this

[2:32:30] because the work has been done, we have to pay the people who did the work.

[2:32:33] But it's in a very bad position because we look, I I don't like

[2:32:36] how this was handled.

[2:32:39] How many more it says,

[2:32:41] uh, revealed deterioration more catch basins along that stretch

[2:32:44] that originally were identified.

[2:32:46] How many were originally identified if the looking at

[2:32:48] wasn't done, how were they identified, and then how many

[2:32:51] more catch basins were discovered as the construction went along?

[2:32:56] So how many did we start with?

[2:32:57] How do we know?

[2:32:58] And then how many did we end up with?

[2:33:00] For the for the bid, we estimated seven of the

[2:33:02] structures and we ended up with 35.

[2:33:05] Oh wow, that's way off.

[2:33:06] So that's what's the basis that estimate? That estimate was

[2:33:09] way off.

[2:33:10] I can say 10 and it's actually 12 and it's like, okay,

[2:33:12] that was a pretty good estimate.

[2:33:15] But this estimate is 35.

[2:33:17] a dartboard, basically.

[2:33:18] I mean, I might not even vote for this, but maybe.

[2:33:21] I mean, that's a that's a bad answer, I'm sorry.

[2:33:23] So I can't answer, you know, certainly the questions.

[2:33:25] But as counselor does remember, this winter was extremely

[2:33:28] challenging on a lot of our roads.

[2:33:30] And, uh, this, you know, obviously this road right in front of the school, this came

[2:33:35] in front of council and we're like, hey, how can we get this project done because of the

[2:33:39] timeliness of the school and how dilapidated 11 mile had become especially between Little Mack and Harper.

[2:33:44] and it was it was definitely starting to crumble similar to what we just did

[2:33:48] from Jefferson north of 11 mile.

[2:33:54] So, uh, we went to our engineering company and we just said, hey, we want to get this

[2:33:58] project going, we have to get it out to bed, we have to get

[2:34:01] the project started so we can be done before school.

[2:34:05] Because the last thing we want to do is not allow the buses to be able to get through and

[2:34:08] have this construction while school was going on.

[2:34:12] So, I think at that time, I can't speak what happened with

[2:34:14] the engineering firm, um, outside of the fact of,

[2:34:19] here's what your roads normally are, we're going to do an

[2:34:21] estimate because we want to get this bid out so we can have the road done.

[2:34:25] On the fortunate side, the road did get done before school

[2:34:27] started as we mentioned just two days before.

[2:34:30] But the estimate of 7 to 35 was way off. Now the

[2:34:33] infrastructure was dilapidated.

[2:34:37] Um, and I can't answer for our engineering firm when it comes to that, but I will say

[2:34:40] we did put them under the gun to be able to come up with a project and a job, to be able

[2:34:45] to bid it out, to be able to have it done before school and to take a bad road

[2:34:49] and to get it fixed as soon as possible.

[2:34:53] We're in a really awful position here because of that

[2:34:55] and we weren't aware that was going to happen until the meeting tonight.

[2:34:59] Yeah. And now I will say as well,

[2:35:00] And, you know, I think it's super cool, we got this done super fast, that's awesome,

[2:35:03] right, but when you didn't, you left out, we're going to put

[2:35:06] you under the gun then in September.

[2:35:10] and make you I it's just was not handled very well and I'm very

[2:35:13] disappointed in this

[2:35:14] especially when I had to ask how many catch base discrepancy there

[2:35:17] was. 7 to 3.

[2:35:20] I'm glad I asked that question because here I was thinking it was two.

[2:35:25] Yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot.

[2:35:27] That is a lot.

[2:35:28] And the engineer, engineering, whatever engineering was done,

[2:35:32] was done in the spring so it was after the crappy winter.

[2:35:35] So we all knew, I mean, we sure assumed the road deteriorate to

[2:35:38] that that we probably, if we were just assumed, we probably should

[2:35:41] have assumed more than

[2:35:43] seven if that's how much we typically have because the

[2:35:46] conditions in the winter were so severe on the road that we had to

[2:35:49] escalate this project.

[2:35:50] So we probably should have estimated a little bit better given the conditions of the road

[2:35:54] even if we weren't doing the full analysis that we usually would do

[2:35:58] if we actually were doing an analysis, right?

[2:36:02] It's just very frustrating.

[2:36:03] Again, I know the work's been done.

[2:36:04] I feel like I have to approve this,

[2:36:07] but I'm not approving on the process.

[2:36:09] Not at all. I'm approving that we have workers out there, they did the

[2:36:12] projects.

[2:36:13] But this is I never want to be in a situation again.

[2:36:16] Okay.

[2:36:18] Sure.

[2:36:19] Uh, Kyle,

[2:36:20] so the these these catch basins, uh, you estimated seven, right?

[2:36:25] They were already rebid.

[2:36:26] They were already part of the contract. So

[2:36:28] bit, we had a unit price for all these crafts.

[2:36:30] So we had so just so we we all understand.

[2:36:32] I mean, yes, it's more, but you're using the contract price that they they bid.

[2:36:39] That's correct.

[2:36:39] Okay, okay. I just I'm totally aware

[2:36:42] I know you are.

[2:36:43] I just want to make sure everybody else understands that.

[2:36:45] this the seven were part of the bid. Yes, we've added on to it, but it

[2:36:48] was part of the whole bid. We used the unit price to do from 7 to 35.

[2:36:53] So that that's I think important that we make sure we we do that.

[2:36:56] And I think we have to make sure we understand. We we had to have it

[2:36:59] done with in front of Lake View.

[2:37:01] the road was breaking apart as it

[2:37:03] is on 11 mile as it was on Jefferson.

[2:37:06] And I think we we know that.

[2:37:07] But it's a different issue

[2:37:09] it's when Lake View High School is sitting right there and we we have got to get that done.

[2:37:15] Yes, Mr.

[2:37:16] I I'm not saying I know you're not.

[2:37:19] I'm not saying that you are.

[2:37:20] I know, but you're emphasizing Lake View High School. I'm just

[2:37:22] emphasizing the process should have been improved.

[2:37:24] It should not have been brought to us until the process was actually

[2:37:27] done or we should at least been aware of that.

[2:37:30] And of course, it's unit pricing. That's what the contract is.

[2:37:33] I know, I just want to make it clear.

[2:37:35] But it's 7 versus 35. That's a lot different. That's why we had the vote tonight.

[2:37:38] Sure.

[2:37:39] Mr. Rebello.

[2:37:40] I'm not I'm not going to pile on the I have the same type of

[2:37:44] sentiment.

[2:37:46] I just want to move forward from here.

[2:37:48] I mean, all of us sort of like, yes, yes, hurry before school

[2:37:50] starts. Hurry before school starts.

[2:37:53] I think that was the number one thing. But

[2:37:55] if it can't be done the correct way,

[2:37:58] just let us know the next time going forward so we can sort of

[2:38:01] make a decision based on on that information.

[2:38:07] Because yeah, we're hitting with uh one foot out of the batter's box.

[2:38:11] As they say.

[2:38:12] Now, but these folks did the work.

[2:38:14] So, I'll be voting yes for it.

[2:38:17] But let us know in advance. If she if it's going to if it's going to

[2:38:19] go sideways. Okay.

[2:38:23] We will deal.

[2:38:24] Mr. Vitali.

[2:38:26] Do you know how many total catch basins there are?

[2:38:30] I believe there's 35.

[2:38:30] Every single one of them were chat.

[2:38:33] Everyone.

[2:38:35] Okay. 100% is I mean, it's hard to put 100% of them in the bed.

[2:38:39] I mean, on one hand I can I can say that, you know, maybe we should have we should have

[2:38:43] went out and and guessed all of them would be bad,

[2:38:47] but then of course, the bid would have been a million dollars more than

[2:38:50] what we were told.

[2:38:53] Um, but I guess if the motion is to pay the bill that we owe

[2:38:58] and then put it back out in 28 to fix the rest of them.

[2:39:04] Um, correct.

[2:39:05] That that is essentially the motion.

[2:39:06] Yes.

[2:39:07] Well, there's no motion yet, but

[2:39:09] that the recommendation So I would

[2:39:11] I would make a motion for the recommendation from staff to

[2:39:16] pay the 120,000 and then include additional funding in the fiscal year 28 budget

[2:39:22] to complete the work on Westbound 11 Mile.

[2:39:25] and rebid and rebid.

[2:39:27] Move by Mr.

[2:39:28] Cali, supported by Mr. Fed.

[2:39:30] All in favor?

[2:39:31] Aye.

[2:39:33] All.

[2:39:34] Okay, all opposed?

[2:39:37] I said I.

[2:39:38] I know that I there was a moment I couldn't hear it all down here.

[2:39:40] somebody down here at the table.

[2:39:42] Okay.

[2:39:43] we're just I'm just trying to quite out loud.

[2:39:46] I know I know I know it's funny.

[2:39:48] But I I'm trying to record it all.

[2:39:49] So apparently 7 to zero.

[2:39:51] Okay, thank you.

[2:39:55] Item 8C is a request to approve the Great Lakes Water Authority

[2:39:58] contract amendment 5.

[2:40:00] Mr. Babcock.

[2:40:03] Yes.

[2:40:04] So we uh we currently have a 30-year contract with the Great

[2:40:07] Lakes Water Authority um to purchase drinking water.

[2:40:11] through uh 2038.

[2:40:12] And currently every four years

[2:40:14] we have the opportunity to uh relook at that contract and the figures

[2:40:18] within it.

[2:40:19] Um, based on how we're currently operating our distribution system,

[2:40:23] how much water demand there is in the city,

[2:40:25] um and we can make an amendment to that contract.

[2:40:27] So, um, this is a request to approve contract amendment number five.

[2:40:33] Um, Mr. Lenton and myself met with the Grelex Water Authority and

[2:40:36] um, reviewed all these figures.

[2:40:41] Mr. Karen, thank you.

[2:40:43] So basically, in terms of like the two key numbers on here,

[2:40:46] uh, the maximum per day, millions of gallons per day,

[2:40:49] and peak hour million gallons per day.

[2:40:51] Those get used to calculate our max flow rate, which drives

[2:40:54] what Lee will end up charging us, correct?

[2:40:57] Yes.

[2:40:57] In terms of our proportion of all their costs.

[2:41:00] And that's what feeds our water rates.

[2:41:01] Okay.

[2:41:02] So basically, since the numbers are going down,

[2:41:06] we're still going to pay more because the rates will still keep

[2:41:09] going up, but it'll be less of an increase.

[2:41:12] Since the max flow rate should go down. Yep.

[2:41:14] Next time we calculate. Go.

[2:41:17] Ms. Burgess?

[2:41:19] Um, do we anticipate this uh amendment having any effect,

[2:41:23] positive or negative

[2:41:25] on what our St. Clair Shores residents will be ultimately

[2:41:29] paying for water?

[2:41:31] Well, it's been a positive year after year ever since we started

[2:41:36] operating the storage tank at 10 Mile and Harper.

[2:41:37] Um, that saves our residents, you know, over a million dollars a year

[2:41:42] by running that reservoir.

[2:41:43] We filled it in the evening

[2:41:45] and we pump the water from it during the day.

[2:41:48] Um, and that saves us from buying water that's more costly during

[2:41:53] the day to be pumped to us.

[2:41:54] Um, and we use the water that we put into the storage tank at night.

[2:41:57] So, yeah, it saves over a million dollars a year for our residents

[2:42:00] by using that.

[2:42:01] Thank you.

[2:42:02] I wanted the audience to hear that.

[2:42:04] Mr. Telli.

[2:42:05] Um, yeah, I'm going to vote for this

[2:42:07] because this basically is, you know, updating our infrastructure

[2:42:11] records with GLWA and and that all makes sense.

[2:42:18] However, I will say that I had a presentation prepared that I was

[2:42:22] going to do during audience participation and it'd be great

[2:42:27] to have some people from the state who could see that.

[2:42:30] That our monopoly water supplier is advertising and spending

[2:42:35] $200,000 on a rebranding campaign for something that only

[2:42:38] municipalities can buy anyways, which we're locked into a

[2:42:42] 30-year contract for.

[2:42:46] And they're printing up frisbees and making YouTube videos

[2:42:50] and it's absolutely ridiculous.

[2:42:52] But because I knew we'd have a lot of people here for flock tonight,

[2:42:56] I'm not going to go through that all.

[2:42:57] But I do hope I have as many people watching that and

[2:43:01] some of those people may be in state government,

[2:43:03] because I'm going to say that this whole GLWA thing is

[2:43:06] is just failure upon failure.

[2:43:11] They they can't sell enough water to make their fixed costs,

[2:43:17] so they raise the rates.

[2:43:19] So people conserve water so they don't sell enough water to

[2:43:20] make their fixed cost.

[2:43:21] It's just I this has got to stop somewhere.

[2:43:25] So,

[2:43:26] um, so that's my sentiment.

[2:43:30] Mr. Ruse.

[2:43:31] Thank you. Uh John made the point to address table two already with

[2:43:35] the maximum flow rates, so I'll go to table three.

[2:43:36] What's the import of the flow rate assumption changes in uh table

[2:43:40] three on the two to be?

[2:43:42] I compared them to the 2022 um amendment that we approved and

[2:43:47] they do um address the assumed flow rates differently between the meters.

[2:43:52] So, what's the the driving force behind the change?

[2:43:57] Well, we look at basically we have various feeds throughout the city

[2:44:02] and um this is showing what the split is of where the water's

[2:44:05] coming from.

[2:44:08] Okay, um and it's changing.

[2:44:11] Yeah.

[2:44:12] Okay.

[2:44:12] That was my question.

[2:44:14] Why?

[2:44:17] Uh, right now the majority of our water is coming from our

[2:44:20] north connection.

[2:44:22] Um, and the pressures on the south end,

[2:44:25] um, the water's flowing better from the north right now, the

[2:44:30] pressures coming from the south end are not high enough to to push

[2:44:34] into the city currently, but that's, you know, something we're working

[2:44:37] on with Great Lakes Water Authority.

[2:44:39] Okay, um just to compare SS02 right now

[2:44:42] in this new amendment's 80 to 100% in the 2022 when it was 0 to 70.

[2:44:48] Three is now 0 to 5, before it was 45 to 100%, that's when it

[2:44:52] jumped out to me.

[2:44:54] Uh, four is 0 to 10%, 2022 was 0 to 6, so that's not a huge change.

[2:44:59] And for 05, uh now it's 0 to 5% and 2022 it was 0 to 30%.

[2:45:05] So that's another change.

[2:45:06] So I'm just wondering what was driving the change.

[2:45:09] Okay.

[2:45:11] Thank you.

[2:45:12] Mr. Rebello.

[2:45:13] Yeah.

[2:45:14] It seems we try to beat the water company's all the time.

[2:45:18] We just can't hit the upper haget. Thanks.

[2:45:20] And Chris, I think I saw your Facebook post there.

[2:45:22] There was, was that you? It was entertaining.

[2:45:24] I have more. I have more now.

[2:45:26] I thought it was entertaining. I I I read it.

[2:45:28] And it it is, it's it's it's quite amazing that

[2:45:33] sometimes you think, okay, I'm going to use less water

[2:45:36] and I'm going to have a lower water bill, but

[2:45:39] it just catches up with itself because now

[2:45:43] you're using less water and so now they have to raise

[2:45:47] the rates to make up for the fixed cost of the structure,

[2:45:51] the infrastructure and the and the costs that they're incurring.

[2:45:55] And it really is uh frustrating because

[2:45:59] we all I think feel the same way about what goes on.

[2:46:03] And we just can't beat them. There's no way around it.

[2:46:08] So.

[2:46:10] No fault of yours, Mr. Babcock.

[2:46:14] We need a motion to move forward.

[2:46:17] Move to approve.

[2:46:18] Support.

[2:46:19] Moved by Mr. Karen, supported by Miss Burgess to approve Amendment

[2:46:22] 5 to the water service contract between Great Lakes Water Authority

[2:46:25] and the City of St. Claire Shores.

[2:46:26] All in favor?

[2:46:27] Aye.

[2:46:28] All opposed?

[2:46:29] 7-0 passes. Thank you.

[2:46:30] Thank you.

[2:46:33] Item nine, consent agenda.

[2:46:35] Move to approve.

[2:46:36] Support.

[2:46:37] Moved by Mr. Karen, supported by Mr. Frederick to approve the

[2:46:40] consent agenda.

[2:46:41] All in favor?

[2:46:42] Aye.

[2:46:43] All opposed?

[2:46:44] Thank you, 7-0.

[2:46:46] Item 10 is updates and follow-up.

[2:46:50] Mr. Light.

[2:46:51] Yes, I'll start with the council request first.

[2:46:53] Uh, Miss Rucy requested how many in car police radios have been

[2:46:57] replaced to date as part of the radio replacement program.

[2:47:01] In 2022, there were 16, 2023, 10, and then 2025, three.

[2:47:06] Uh, Miss Rucy requested that a date be scheduled for the

[2:47:09] subcommittee to review the Roseville code enforcement contract.

[2:47:13] Uh, Denise is setting up a meeting with the subcommittee to review and

[2:47:15] I believe that has been

[2:47:17] Friday 9th and 23rd.

[2:47:18] September 25th, I'm sorry.

[2:47:19] Friday morning.

[2:47:21] Yes.

[2:47:22] Uh, Miss Rucy and Mr. Vitali requested an update on the

[2:47:24] sidewalk program including the current progress, areas completed,

[2:47:29] and areas remaining to be reviewed and marked throughout the district.

[2:47:33] Uh, a summary of that program status was sent via email and is

[2:47:36] also attached to this email thread.

[2:47:39] Mr. Rucy?

[2:47:41] Can we get another update on that as of September 14th, it says the

[2:47:45] program is estimated at 55% complete.

[2:47:47] It's now September 21st. I'd like to know where they are a week later.

[2:47:50] Yes, I will.

[2:47:51] 56%.

[2:47:52] This is um,

[2:47:54] And I know they have a litany of excuses in here, but it's uh

[2:47:58] very sad that it's not even O'Mart yet where you don't even know what

[2:48:02] the scope of the work is going to be

[2:48:03] in terms of how many squares will end up being replaced.

[2:48:06] Um, yes, so

[2:48:08] No, I was just going to say to tag on to that, we've kind of reached a

[2:48:11] point in time now where

[2:48:13] I don't think we probably want to break out any more concrete because

[2:48:16] I'm worried that we do replacements, it's going to get

[2:48:19] full of leaves.

[2:48:20] That's how late in the year we're getting on this.

[2:48:22] Yep.

[2:48:23] So, keep that in mind.

[2:48:24] Okay, I'll have a meeting and I'll get back with both of you.

[2:48:26] Thank you and the visuals.

[2:48:28] Uh, Mr. Frederick raised concerns about cuts in the pavement causing

[2:48:31] issues.

[2:48:32] He indicated that he would provide the exact data. Uh, the address was

[2:48:35] provided by Councilman Frederick and it is also on the list for

[2:48:38] replacement.

[2:48:39] Thank you.

[2:48:40] Uh, Mr. Vitali requested an update on the Kudova site plan.

[2:48:44] Uh, Kudova has corrected their violations. Uh, oh sorry.

[2:48:49] And then sorry, Kudova has corrected their violations.

[2:48:51] The only items are we are actively monitoring right now is the health

[2:48:55] of the boxwood shrubs.

[2:48:57] Uh, but those plant materials die then they would work with the owner

[2:49:00] to make sure that they are replaced.

[2:49:03] And then I will move on to 10A.

[2:49:06] Um, so 10A is the responses from all of the audience.

[2:49:10] As many of you guys may have been here last week, and some were,

[2:49:14] some weren't.

[2:49:15] Uh, we had a lot of individuals come up and speak on behalf of

[2:49:18] flop cameras.

[2:49:19] Um, that information as we all always do is provided in the agenda.

[2:49:23] Knowing that, we also wanted to provide, so I think there is a

[2:49:27] stack and I know some of you guys have grabbed some,

[2:49:29] but there is a stack of what was in the agenda. So everybody can

[2:49:32] actually get a copy.

[2:49:33] If you want to read over it, have that information.

[2:49:36] It is also available though on the website as well.

[2:49:39] So if people want to just go ahead and view it on the website, so

[2:49:43] there is other areas.

[2:49:44] If uh, they happen to be all gone, because obviously we have a large

[2:49:48] crowd here again,

[2:49:49] uh, let us know, we will make sure we get some more printed out.

[2:49:51] Uh, but like I said, I want to let everybody know it is on our website

[2:49:54] underneath medium minutes.

[2:49:56] As well that's over there as well is uh we did try to get together

[2:49:59] and try to do a little bit of a presentation.

[2:50:02] Our police chief is here, that is in here as well.

[2:50:05] Um, and then

[2:50:08] um, so I think I said all the answers. So rather than me read

[2:50:11] them word for word, uh, like I said there was a lot of

[2:50:13] of individuals who came up and speak.

[2:50:15] Thank you all for coming back again,

[2:50:17] and then I'm just going to go ahead and turn it over

[2:50:19] to our police chief for a little presentation.

[2:50:21] Thank you. Uh, good evening, Mayor and Council.

[2:50:23] Um, so we put together a short uh PowerPoint presentation.

[2:50:29] Um, I'll just kind of make some comments on each page.

[2:50:32] Um,

[2:50:34] So what are the cameras? They take images of vehicles,

[2:50:37] models and plates. They're still photos.

[2:50:40] Um, they help officers generate potential leads to crimes.

[2:50:44] Uh, after a crime occurs,

[2:50:46] um, it assists us by, um, so say there's a break-in at a store.

[2:50:51] The store surveillance video uh captures and I just picked

[2:50:55] a red pickup truck with a cap.

[2:50:57] Uh, was in the parking lot at the time of the break-in.

[2:51:01] Uh, the break-in occurs, it gets reported.

[2:51:03] The next day, the investigator gets the case assigned,

[2:51:06] and then they go back in time on the camera system

[2:51:09] to see five or 10 minutes or so before that crime occurred.

[2:51:14] Uh, so it was at 10 and Little Mac, uh, this was a

[2:51:16] real case that just happened recently.

[2:51:19] Uh, was was a like vehicle seen coming through into

[2:51:22] St. Clair Shores past the camera.

[2:51:26] Uh, if it did, it takes a picture of that vehicle

[2:51:29] with the matching description.

[2:51:31] There's a plate now that's visible.

[2:51:32] Now we have the license plate number,

[2:51:34] detectives can do their, uh, investigative, uh, techniques

[2:51:37] to then develop a suspect potentially from that information.

[2:51:42] Um,

[2:51:45] A community alert

[2:51:47] is when uh a wanted or missing person or stolen

[2:51:50] vehicle drives past that camera.

[2:51:54] This information is entered by law enforcement agencies

[2:51:56] into the National Crime Information Center.

[2:51:59] That's a nationwide system that we use to track stolen

[2:52:02] stolen, uh, vehicles and wanted people and missing people.

[2:52:06] It passes the camera, an alert goes out to the officers

[2:52:08] and to dispatch, and says, hey, this camera just or this

[2:52:11] vehicle just drove past your camera at this location

[2:52:14] into your city.

[2:52:16] Officers can then, um, actively search for that vehicle.

[2:52:21] It is not facial recognition.

[2:52:23] The cameras face inward into the city, so they're kind of

[2:52:26] like a perimeter around the city.

[2:52:28] When a vehicle drives into the city, it catches the rear

[2:52:30] of the vehicle as the vehicle drives away from the camera.

[2:52:33] It's not looking for faces or people.

[2:52:36] It just takes a a snapshot.

[2:52:39] And these are not for, uh, surveillance of residents,

[2:52:42] it's not for traffic enforcement, it doesn't detect speeding,

[2:52:45] it doesn't check plate expirations.

[2:52:50] Um, the Michigan Department of Transportation has numerous

[2:52:53] cameras along the freeways.

[2:52:54] And the county uh road department has cameras at many intersections

[2:52:59] throughout Macomb County, including St. Clair Shores.

[2:53:03] Um,

[2:53:04] a valid reason and a complaint number have to be put in by

[2:53:07] the officer if they're going to check the system.

[2:53:11] Uh, next slide, please.

[2:53:15] So this is how they're used.

[2:53:17] So, a car passes the camera, the images are taken, and

[2:53:20] this they're stored in the cloud.

[2:53:21] So, I drove into here, uh, today, my my vehicle plate

[2:53:25] and the description was captured by numerous

[2:53:28] cameras on my way here.

[2:53:29] Those images go up into the cloud.

[2:53:32] Hopefully they'll never be checked by anybody because

[2:53:34] I'm not going to be a subject of a criminal investigation.

[2:53:38] So there are a lot of, um, photos or images taken and

[2:53:41] very few are ever accessed by law enforcement.

[2:53:45] Again, a legitimate law enforcement reason is needed.

[2:53:48] And then we still verify. So this was prior to flock

[2:53:51] and and, uh, just as part of,

[2:53:53] uh, regular law enforcement procedures.

[2:53:57] So say we see a stolen car, uh, a BOL from dispatch or an officer sees a stolen car.

[2:54:03] We check the plate, comes back stolen.

[2:54:06] So then what we do is we have dispatch verify with the

[2:54:08] entering jurisdiction that that indeed is still a

[2:54:11] stolen vehicle, and that the plate matches the vehicle that's

[2:54:15] been entered into the system.

[2:54:17] Once that's verified, then that traffic stop would occur.

[2:54:20] So again, we're still verifying, uh, through a

[2:54:23] human eyes that this is the exact vehicle.

[2:54:27] Um, thus far we've we've utilized the system to make

[2:54:32] more than 40 arrests and have recovered multiple stolen

[2:54:36] vehicles since we've had this system in just just over a year.

[2:54:40] Uh, the next why use?

[2:54:46] So, many of the crimes that we've solved, also cleared

[2:54:48] cases in other jurisdictions, there's one of the, um,

[2:54:51] I'm one of the slides there's a case, there's an armed

[2:54:54] robbery of a check caching place in the north end of town.

[2:54:57] Um, we cleared that case with the assistance of Flock.

[2:54:59] Again, it's a tool that helps the detectives besides doing the regular techniques.

[2:55:04] Um, that suspect was identified, was on parole for

[2:55:07] other violent crimes,

[2:55:09] uh, who's arrested for our armed robbery as well as

[2:55:11] armed robbery.

[2:55:12] various and other neighboring jurisdictions.

[2:55:15] So obviously crime doesn't have borders. People are going to come and go,

[2:55:19] uh, into our town and to others. So.

[2:55:24] Um.

[2:55:29] Okay, next slide, please.

[2:55:32] So again, authorized access, our officers, um,

[2:55:37] to access the system, they have to be on our user lists. They have to go

[2:55:40] initial training,

[2:55:42] annual review of the policy.

[2:55:45] Uh they have to use a username

[2:55:47] and password and multi-factor

[2:55:49] authentication uh through text or email

[2:55:51] to actually utilize the system.

[2:55:54] Um.

[2:55:58] the investigative, uh reason and uh complaint number. Again,

[2:56:02] there need to be uh listed in there by the officer.

[2:56:07] The audit, uh any activity is logged for audit purposes and reviewed by

[2:56:12] in this case it's our detective bureau lieutenant.

[2:56:16] So, we have a few different, um, ways to do this.

[2:56:20] So, um.

[2:56:24] we have our monthly audits. We used to do them quarterly. Now we do them monthly.

[2:56:29] Uh, so the detective lieutenant goes through, um, sees how many times it was used,

[2:56:35] sees how many times officers ran plates.

[2:56:38] And then they, um, spot check numerous complaint numbers to verify

[2:56:44] that they were legitimate uses.

[2:56:46] So when the officer puts in a complaint number,

[2:56:48] uh, the detective pulls that complaint number,

[2:56:51] actually runs the report, that report complaint number in our report system

[2:56:54] to verify, yep, that was a stolen car case or that was a domestic

[2:56:57] violence case where the suspect left the scene prior to officer's arrival.

[2:57:00] Whatever the case may be.

[2:57:02] Uh, and we found no uh violations of our directive.

[2:57:07] We also utilize, um, it's called audit assist. It's a program within

[2:57:10] the flock system

[2:57:12] that automatically flags any unusual activity.

[2:57:16] So if an officer runs a plate numerous times, or if an officer runs the same

[2:57:20] plate on multiple days,

[2:57:23] um.

[2:57:25] You know what, ma'am, a little respect would be nice, okay?

[2:57:27] We we give you the respect, we expect the respect back. That would be nice.

[2:57:31] Uh so then

[2:57:32] [crowd]

[2:57:34] takes the, uh,

[2:57:37] uh, that lets us know that there there could be a problem.

[2:57:41] Those have been spot-checked as well and we've not uh we've not seen any

[2:57:45] uh violations of our uh directive.

[2:57:49] Um.

[2:57:51] That was the audit stuff.

[2:57:53] Our directive, uh, has been approved by MMA, uh Michigan Municipal Risk

[2:57:56] Management Authority, and by the city attorney's office.

[2:58:00] And again, an annual review is required by everyone who uses our system.

[2:58:05] Um.

[2:58:07] There are questions about the directive and uh running the

[2:58:10] running a plate through the system.

[2:58:13] So I can't run my own plate and I can't run somebody else's

[2:58:15] plate just to see if it's been queried.

[2:58:18] Um, that's against the directive because there's no legitimate law

[2:58:20] enforcement reason to do that.

[2:58:22] Um, I know again, you know, my my plate and vehicle descriptions run

[2:58:26] through this, you know, images are captured

[2:58:30] uh, through numerous jurisdictions daily. And, um.

[2:58:36] I haven't been contacted because I haven't been the subject of a

[2:58:39] criminal investigation.

[2:58:42] This is not access by ICE.

[2:58:45] Um.

[2:58:46] Next.

[2:58:47] So our retention for the data is 30 days.

[2:58:51] We can switch it to 14 or seven. The flock system allows for those

[2:58:54] uh choices to be made in the system.

[2:58:58] But the Michigan records retention schedule, the statute that, um,

[2:59:01] dictates how long data needs to be kept by municipalities and his

[2:59:04] department says it has to be 30 days.

[2:59:08] So,

[2:59:09] if this if, if this data is used in a criminal investigation and

[2:59:12] prosecution, obviously it can be kept longer,

[2:59:17] Uh, because if, you know, a murder case could take years

[2:59:19] to get through the system, so that would still be kept

[2:59:21] as part of the case file.

[2:59:24] Um.

[2:59:25] Again, we have our safeguards of training, policy review, audits, and

[2:59:29] if there are problems, uh, discipline is addressed in our directive.

[2:59:34] Uh, next, please.

[2:59:37] Annual cost. We have 12 cameras, uh, so it's $3,000 a camera per year.

[2:59:42] The first year was a little bit more because of the installation costs

[2:59:45] that were, um, needed.

[2:59:48] We have a five-year contract, and we just paid year two. The funds for this

[2:59:52] comes from the Drug Law Enforcement Fund, not from the general fund.

[2:59:58] Uh.

[3:00:00] Next, please.

[3:00:02] These are some, uh, just examples of some of the uses that we've had. There

[3:00:06] are a couple of pages more. I think it's in the packet that the city

[3:00:08] manager mentioned.

[3:00:10] Um, so there are

[3:00:13] there are more, uh, success stories for that use.

[3:00:17] Uh, and then lastly,

[3:00:19] so the red cameras are the cameras around town, uh, a lot on the

[3:00:25] North End, the West End and the South End. Um, every

[3:00:30] jurisdiction around us except now for one on our south side on the

[3:00:36] toward the south end of town on the west side of us.

[3:00:43] So these have been publicly available, uh, the locations that is.

[3:00:48] They face inward as I said and capture the rear of vehicles.

[3:00:55] Uh, so they don't, we're not tracking people. Um, this is a tool.

[3:01:00] So you can travel all over our city and never be on camera on a flock

[3:01:04] camera. You can be on lots of other cameras but you can't be on a

[3:01:06] flock camera. So, if you live say near 8 and a half and Harper,

[3:01:09] you could go, uh, a little bit north, maybe grab some groceries,

[3:01:14] go to the Civic Arena for a park pass, grab a sandwich on 9 and a half and

[3:01:18] Harper, go get gas maybe or a snack at 10 and Little Mac.

[3:01:23] Stop at the fire department for some fire prevention tips.

[3:01:27] Go to 12 and Harper for a snack or a pop there.

[3:01:31] Go to the golf course for a quick nine.

[3:01:33] Go up to Kite Monroe for a pickleball game.

[3:01:35] Head over to Veterans Memorial Park for a nice walk along the track.

[3:01:40] Head south down to the library to pick up a book.

[3:01:43] Go to Blossom Heath to go fishing.

[3:01:45] And then go on to Jefferson for dinner.

[3:01:48] Go to the social district downtown for a nice evening.

[3:01:50] And then back home and you would have never been on a flock camera.

[3:01:54] So, these aren't tailing people, they're not chasing people.

[3:01:57] Um there are some things,

[3:01:59] uh, flock does offer a transparency portal it's called,

[3:02:02] where data can be publicly, uh, posted for anybody to see.

[3:02:06] We would like to get that posted onto the city website.

[3:02:09] It shows data as question and answer sections, things like that.

[3:02:12] Um, I'm sure our flock rep would get us in touch with the right

[3:02:16] people to get that up and running.

[3:02:19] We can look at our sharing properties, so we share with numerous

[3:02:23] different agencies.

[3:02:24] Right now we don't do anything out of state and no federal agencies.

[3:02:28] So we can look into narrowing that down to which agencies with which we share

[3:02:32] or which agencies can see our data.

[3:02:36] And we need to do further research on the, uh, retention because

[3:02:40] right now the statute limits, uh, us in reducing that.

[3:02:44] Uh, we're also hoping all of us are gonna have a new governor

[3:02:48] here soon, and no matter who's elected,

[3:02:50] uh, we hope that there would be some guidance coming from the state level,

[3:02:53] every community is going through similar things.

[3:02:57] And we're all looking for answers and and one, um, overhead way

[3:03:01] to handle everything throughout all these jurisdictions. So.

[3:03:06] Uh, and I spoke with the representative earlier today,

[3:03:11] uh, hopefully the legislature can also help in that regard.

[3:03:15] Mr. Lant, thank you. Yeah, so.

[3:03:17] Thank you, uh, Chief, um, for coming up here.

[3:03:20] And then, um, as as the Chief just indicated to,

[3:03:24] uh, there is going to be a new governor.

[3:03:27] Um, there are going to be, um, hopefully some guidance from

[3:03:31] the state.

[3:03:32] Obviously, you're seeing constant as I think multiple people actually

[3:03:36] brought up during their two minute.

[3:03:39] Uh, there has been discussion even at the federal level.

[3:03:43] Uh, there is a lack of kind of guidance at the federal level

[3:03:46] and at the state level.

[3:03:48] Uh, hopefully that will be coming in the very near future.

[3:03:51] This is a very hot topic, you do see this being discussed.

[3:03:55] And or voted in some communities down and other communities voted up.

[3:04:00] Um, as Warren just voted to keep theirs as well.

[3:04:03] Um, so you are seeing kind of a blend across this nation and across

[3:04:07] this state of kind of what's going on. Um.

[3:04:11] But that being said, I know that we had, like I said, a lot of these

[3:04:15] individuals who came tonight.

[3:04:16] And then also came two weeks ago.

[3:04:18] Uh, we did try to compile as much information as we could.

[3:04:21] I know that the chief, um, has reached out, we're trying to see

[3:04:25] if we could get a flock representative here.

[3:04:27] Uh, they are...

[3:04:29] This is for council.

[3:04:30] Um, so, so information, uh, so we could get, uh...

[3:04:36] So we could get more information, uh, so if council does have some

[3:04:40] technical questions.

[3:04:42] Um, as well as, uh, making sure that we have some of our detectives

[3:04:46] that do go through the training and provide that, so any information,

[3:04:49] just so we can be well informed on both sides.

[3:04:53] Um, like I said, there is a lot of misinformation on both different sides.

[3:04:58] And this does show what's there, so council can be well informed.

[3:05:02] Chief, you did have to at the end you had some open questions still.

[3:05:05] Can you give that again that you you thought that maybe you don't have

[3:05:08] all the answers for which one was a portal, we don't.

[3:05:13] The transparency portal, we would like to get that up and running.

[3:05:16] It shows uh how the system's used by officer with raw data,

[3:05:19] numbers, how many how many images

[3:05:22] are captured, how many searches are conducted, those types of things.

[3:05:25] It doesn't show the plate number or the officer's name or the

[3:05:29] complaint number, uh but those are searchable if they need to be

[3:05:33] uh through a unique identifying number in the system.

[3:05:36] So we'd like to get that up and running.

[3:05:38] Um, I I spoke with our rep briefly about it and he said he

[3:05:42] can certainly hook us up with whoever it is that needs that

[3:05:44] handles that kind of aspect of that program.

[3:05:47] I mean, I do have a thought here that I mean, I do have a thought here that I think there are still open questions

[3:05:50] of very well we may be put a pause to this program or bag these bags

[3:05:54] to maybe we have some additional questions answered and and that, but

[3:05:58] [applause]

[3:06:06] I I understand. I I I understand.

[3:06:08] Um, but Ms. Roosey?

[3:06:10] Thank you. Well, um,

[3:06:12] I guess I'll start off the comments and some questions.

[3:06:16] First off, I I think having a flock sales rep here would be as

[3:06:22] satisfying as it was when we were having garbage issues and kept having

[3:06:25] the priority people summoned to stand at the podium and give us

[3:06:28] excuses and I'm sure it would be just as frustrating.

[3:06:31] [applause]

[3:06:36] I would enjoy it. I'll just say that,

[3:06:38] but I just don't think it would be very beneficial

[3:06:40] to the process. Um,

[3:06:44] And the snow globe analogy that you were putting forth, you could do all

[3:06:48] the stuff in Sinclair Shores and never be hit by a flock camera is kind

[3:06:52] of was kind of creepy actually because we have a right to leave the city

[3:06:55] and to travel. You know, and to go

[3:06:57] [applause]

[3:07:00] I would enjoy it. You could drive

[3:07:02] through every city and not get hit by a flock camera isn't really like,

[3:07:05] okay, that's fine, but that doesn't really address the concerns we do

[3:07:08] have because we're not in a snow globe, right? With a dome like a

[3:07:13] Truman show. I guess maybe a little bit, but um,

[3:07:17] That was a good movie.

[3:07:20] So it was a scary movie.

[3:07:23] Um, a couple of the of the points though, I guess.

[3:07:28] You know, you had mentioned how the pictures go up into the cloud, right?

[3:07:32] And most of them won't be looked at, but there was just a flock camera

[3:07:36] that was hack and they put you know some articles out there about how

[3:07:39] these things actually work, which is just like in the past couple of days

[3:07:43] from the last means to now. And it says, contrary to some assumptions

[3:07:46] about the system, the software on the this is I'm reading an article from

[3:07:50] a website. The software on the camera itself doesn't read license plates

[3:07:54] or identify a vehicle's make model or color. That processing happens

[3:07:57] later on the Flatsome servers after the device transmits its photos.

[3:08:01] So it sound like they're passively going up to a cloud just kind of

[3:08:05] floating around. They're going to a server for analysis.

[3:08:09] So that was you know what I mean, that's a little bit different.

[3:08:12] How many images per vehicle are taken?

[3:08:14] So if a car drives past a flock camera, how many separate images?

[3:08:18] I know it doesn't do video, but how many actual images?

[3:08:21] One. It's a lot, it's a lot.

[3:08:23] It's multiple images.

[3:08:26] So it it kind of actually if yeah, if you look at how many images, they

[3:08:29] actually kind of does operate as a video because we don't know how flip

[3:08:32] books work when you have a bunch of pictures in series taken consecutively,

[3:08:36] it pretty much shows it moving. So

[3:08:39] that was uh new information to me too from the that information I saw

[3:08:44] about the hack that came out. So it was good information, but

[3:08:48] And he I had sent this question via email, but in some of the answers

[3:08:54] to some of the questions put forward by the the residents.

[3:08:57] It said that all the cameras in the public right away. I asked about the

[3:09:00] 14 Harper one that is not located though in between the street and the

[3:09:04] sidewalk. It's located between the sidewalk and the parking lot of that

[3:09:07] strip mall right there. Is that one of ours?

[3:09:10] Yes. And that does that count as a public right away because it's not

[3:09:15] the street and the sidewalk. It's between the sidewalk and the parking

[3:09:17] lot, that green way.

[3:09:18] I I'll have to look at what the county's roads department sent on

[3:09:21] that one. It's their their road and and and it would have been there right away.

[3:09:24] Okay, because it says very defensively, they're all on public right of ways.

[3:09:27] There should be no question about any of the answers we have. It should be

[3:09:31] accurate, nothing you have to look for look into.

[3:09:33] Because otherwise, I mean it's hard to put a lot of trust into these

[3:09:36] answers then when I only know that one because

[3:09:39] I have a very trustworthy. It's on my I I would hope so.

[3:09:42] But it's like, I know about that one because it's on my adapter road

[3:09:46] on Harper, so I have to clean around. I have to clean around the right

[3:09:49] away that's not there. It's in between the sidewalk and the parking lot.

[3:09:52] So when I saw, they're all on the public right away, it's like, well,

[3:09:55] how did that one get there?

[3:09:57] So, I I

[3:10:00] Uh, let's see. So we I know every search has to have a reason.

[3:10:05] I was looking at some of the data from Sinclair Shore's searches that

[3:10:09] were put on the have I been flought website, I see inves

[3:10:12] investigation was used

[3:10:14] just as a reason. I know that's not a good reason, but it was used.

[3:10:16] Do we not allow that anymore? Do we have to have a more

[3:10:19] definitive reason that type an investigation?

[3:10:22] Yes.

[3:10:24] But we

[3:10:25] There's a drop-down that's provided with options.

[3:10:29] That's not an option that we use.

[3:10:30] Not anymore.

[3:10:31] It had been used.

[3:10:34] I send an email about that too,

[3:10:36] about some of the searches I had saw.

[3:10:38] I can check the audit log to see if that's been changed.

[3:10:40] Yeah, I think that was back, it was probably back in late November,

[3:10:44] so it might be changed by now, but it was

[3:10:46] It'll show in the system.

[3:10:47] Yeah, some of the, I have very limited information

[3:10:50] I've been able to find, but the one I I did see that

[3:10:53] come up a few times from earlier searches,

[3:10:55] investigation. So that's very oblique.

[3:10:57] That's not

[3:10:59] uh, a very good reason.

[3:11:03] So, anyway,

[3:11:05] um, let's see.

[3:11:09] I going to just re let me get to my notes.

[3:11:13] I'm going to reincorporate,

[3:11:15] I made a lot comments at the last, I actually made a lot

[3:11:17] comments about these things February 2025 during the

[3:11:19] study session,

[3:11:21] a lot of the same concerns that are being brought up now.

[3:11:24] I brought these up over a year ago,

[3:11:27] but um, that's fine.

[3:11:30] Um, again, these aren't license plate readers. They capture a

[3:11:34] lot more details about the vehicle than plates, including

[3:11:36] type, make, color, unique features, bumper stickers,

[3:11:39] decals, roof rats, damage.

[3:11:41] Um, and beyond the hit list that we we like to talk about,

[3:11:46] they also create uh, the ability to search by license plate and

[3:11:50] gets a list of all locations that play is passed by in

[3:11:52] 30 days.

[3:11:54] I know we say, well, they don't track. Well, maybe not technically,

[3:11:57] but if there's a big network of cameras out there

[3:11:59] and a lot of these cameras and the ability to search

[3:12:02] all the data that's being fed into this network

[3:12:04] for 30 days,

[3:12:06] that kind of puts together a pretty good search about

[3:12:09] where this vehicle's been, even if it isn't actively

[3:12:12] tracking it,

[3:12:15] you can kind of reverse engineer it.

[3:12:17] So it's not a passive reader system, it aggregates these

[3:12:19] to track movement over a month-long period.

[3:12:21] the concern grows more than that works the camera grows.

[3:12:24] And this data can be as access without the legal protections

[3:12:27] of a warrant require it, that makes a diff uh

[3:12:29] different than some

[3:12:30] people always bring up, 'well, you carry a cell phone.'

[3:12:32] No, my God, I love my cell phone.

[3:12:34] But that requires a warrant if the police want to look at

[3:12:36] that location data. You can't just pull entire databases.

[3:12:41] Uh, and I can turn my phone off, I can leave my phone at home,

[3:12:44] it's my choice.

[3:12:45] I mean, I I, you know, it's a little bit different than

[3:12:48] driving a car and going outside the city like I'd forbid

[3:12:51] sometimes we want to.

[3:12:54] [laughter]

[3:12:56] Um, these record every vehicle's coming and goings when they

[3:12:59] pass the camera, creates a comprehensive record of them

[3:13:01] rather than just taking pictures of license plates,

[3:13:04] checking and gets a local hot list

[3:13:06] and then flushing the data if there's no hits.

[3:13:08] So retention, that's when the Fourth Amendment constitutional

[3:13:11] concern comes in. The government should be tracking someone again

[3:13:13] it's kind of how it operates,

[3:13:15] unless it has individualized suspicion uh, Rondoin.

[3:13:19] The creation of this data is inescapable given the breath

[3:13:22] in network and it's automatic.

[3:13:23] You can't opt out of it if you're in a car with a license plate on it.

[3:13:28] Uh, the Supreme Court has found that people have a reasonable

[3:13:30] expectation of privacy in the whole of their physical

[3:13:32] movements because of the privacy of life, these

[3:13:34] movements can reveal

[3:13:36] aggregate digital data, uh, location over time, creates a

[3:13:39] detailed record of their movements, which can reveal

[3:13:41] highly sensitive details about their life. It's the aggregation

[3:13:44] of the data that's the issue. Even if each individual

[3:13:46] observation was publicly visible,

[3:13:50] because you're always here like, 'oh, you're in public, you've no

[3:13:52] expectation of privacy.' Well, yeah, I've seen you with my

[3:13:53] eyes, I do, but this

[3:13:54] these are cameras recording this movement, creating, that's the,

[3:13:57] it's the aggregation.

[3:13:59] I brought that up in February 2025 really, what your issue

[3:14:02] with these cameras is data aggregation.

[3:14:03] Well, what does that mean? That's what that means.

[3:14:05] It's the 30-day retention in the network and all the cameras out

[3:14:08] there creating a bigger and larger and more expansive

[3:14:11] network is the issue.

[3:14:14] So, you know, and again, I mentioned this at the last

[3:14:17] [applause]

[3:14:21] I mentioned this at the last meeting too because one of the

[3:14:24] um arguments you hear sometimes is, 'well, you got if you don't

[3:14:27] have anything to hide, where you're afraid of?'

[3:14:29] I got nothing to hide.

[3:14:31] But the Constitution protects the rights of people with

[3:14:34] nothing to hide too. It protects everybody.

[3:14:37] [applause]

[3:14:43] I mentioned that too back in February 2025 as well as

[3:14:45] at the last mean, but it's

[3:14:47] really I think inescapable now, the importance of this one

[3:14:50] because of what we just saw in the news that's been referenced

[3:14:53] about what happened in with our neighboring communities.

[3:14:55] We do have a directive policy in place, govern our officers use

[3:14:58] of the tool.

[3:15:01] But our directive doesn't govern how other jurisdictions

[3:15:04] officers access our data.

[3:15:06] We could

[3:15:07] [applause]

[3:15:11] We could have the most

[3:15:12] Perfect policy of, with teeth,

[3:15:15] with enforcement, the most perfect officers you can imagine.

[3:15:18] But it doesn't matter given we're opening up our data to

[3:15:20] over 180 jurisdictions in Michigan.

[3:15:23] And like uh Senator Chu said,

[3:15:25] no federal or state regulations offer protections.

[3:15:29] There are no legislative protections point Michigan.

[3:15:31] The technology is kind of out pace the law at this point.

[3:15:33] So we have what we have right now is sometimes

[3:15:36] some of these municipalities that do have access to data

[3:15:39] may have policies, they may not be great policies,

[3:15:42] they may not have any policies, they may not be enforced.

[3:15:45] But right now it's just this hodgepodge governing this and

[3:15:47] unless we have some sort of memorandum of understanding

[3:15:51] with other agencies access your data,

[3:15:53] which some municipalities ask for, we don't.

[3:15:56] Some municipal municipalities have started asking accessing agencies to enter into an MOU

[3:16:00] basically saying you will abide by our policies,

[3:16:04] but that's just a mess, but there's no overarching

[3:16:07] regulations about this.

[3:16:09] Which is really scary given how this is grown. Right.

[3:16:13] So, uh there were highly publicized instance of misuse

[3:16:16] nationwide at the time of the study session

[3:16:18] February 2025. There have been additional ones since.

[3:16:21] And since the last meeting, one right next door. Unfortunately.

[3:16:26] And um again data access concerns it turns out.

[3:16:29] I mean you I know chief you have mentioned no federal agencies at this time.

[3:16:34] And we were told previously no federal agencies,

[3:16:37] but the FBI was accessing our data for two months, correct?

[3:16:40] That's correct.

[3:16:42] And I I I have been asking about that because we were told

[3:16:44] and I've been telling people,

[3:16:46] oh yeah, oh it's 180 jurisdictions in Michigan,

[3:16:48] no federal agencies.

[3:16:49] And we come to find out, yes, it was the FBI for two months.

[3:16:53] And it's like, well, somebody's in the system

[3:16:56] some system administrator allowed us.

[3:16:58] But it seemed like when you told us to us it was a surprise.

[3:17:01] Which isn't cool.

[3:17:03] And when the the things was, well, the it was the FBI office

[3:17:05] in Detroit,

[3:17:06] it's like, oh my god, that doesn't make it in

[3:17:08] state. Yeah. The F and FBI

[3:17:10] stands for federal. Regardless of where the office

[3:17:13] is located.

[3:17:15] So it's like, you know, if we have to like, if we're told

[3:17:18] things and we're going forward and telling residents this,

[3:17:21] oh no, no, this is what it is, this is what this is how the

[3:17:24] information and

[3:17:25] it's wrong. I was telling people wrong information because I was trusting.

[3:17:29] And that's a really icky thing to be in. I don't like that.

[3:17:33] Um, you mentioned transparency portal, shorter retention period,

[3:17:36] I talked about the MOUs.

[3:17:39] Again, we don't have a state or federal regulations,

[3:17:41] hopefully soon.

[3:17:42] Do we run searches for other agencies if an agency who doesn't have flock called us up and said

[3:17:47] because I saw some of this not necessarily connected with

[3:17:49] St. Clair Shores, but with other departments running searches for

[3:17:52] other people and they would put that in their their reason.

[3:17:56] Do we run if another department that doesn't have flock call us

[3:17:58] and said, hey, could you run this plate for me, would we do it? Sure.

[3:18:02] Okay. Absolutely.

[3:18:04] because if there's a murder, say there's a murder, say there's a murder in Dallas, Texas, and they think their

[3:18:07] suspect has fled to Southeast Michigan,

[3:18:10] I would want to help that department catch the bad guy.

[3:18:13] So yes, we would share that information with them.

[3:18:15] [laughter] Please, please, please.

[3:18:16] No, it's just it's just I you know, I want to understand who has access to our data

[3:18:20] and it's stuff like that that we're told, oh, it's just in state agencies.

[3:18:25] And then it turns out no, it's actually was the FBI too for a few months.

[3:18:28] They don't have access to it. We could provide them some data.

[3:18:30] Okay, but I'm just trying to understand who gets access to

[3:18:33] the data our cameras generate because

[3:18:37] yes, our residents could be very insular and just travel within St. Clair Shores,

[3:18:41] but

[3:18:43] most of these people driving it out, do live in St. Clair Shores and these are our residents data.

[3:18:47] I would like to know who has access to know who has access to that because that's a big question and

[3:18:50] concern rightfully so that comes up.

[3:18:53] And I I'm not sure if anyone up here really has a full understanding of that

[3:18:57] because sometimes the answer seem to be changing a little bit.

[3:19:01] Um, let's see.

[3:19:06] Oh, I think that's a I talked a lot and I know a lot of people want to weigh in, but

[3:19:10] oh, oh, I also want to see a terrain looking why is the termination clause

[3:19:13] in the contract.

[3:19:16] The contract uh the payments will still have to be made,

[3:19:19] but the service would not be available.

[3:19:21] So we'd still have to pay for five years or four years at this point.

[3:19:25] Three more.

[3:19:26] Three more years.

[3:19:26] We just made the second. Second payment.

[3:19:29] [laughter] Great, great contracts.

[3:19:32] Okay. Thank you.

[3:19:34] I I didn't vote for this. I was out of state when the vote was made.

[3:19:37] So I was out of state when the vote was made.

[3:19:39] [applause] I

[3:19:42] Mr. Burgess. Thank you.

[3:19:44] I don't want to repeat.

[3:19:46] I don't want to repeat

[3:19:47] um or get into everything that uh Miss Roosey brought up.

[3:19:52] Uh though I agree with what she has said tonight. Um,

[3:19:57] I right before we started this um Mayor had said that

[3:19:59] maybe we should be taking a pause.

[3:20:05] And I believe we should be taking a pause.

[3:20:08] [applause]

[3:20:12] [applause]

[3:20:14] safeguards safeguards need be in place

[3:20:17] and Chief. I trust you. I've known you for years and uh

[3:20:23] I have a great amount respect for our police department.

[3:20:27] But chiefs change,

[3:20:28] officers change, counsels change,

[3:20:30] administration changes, technology changes,

[3:20:35] but these safeguards need to be in place

[3:20:37] and we don't have enough of those safeguards right now.

[3:20:40] Um, if someone someday decided to misuse this technology,

[3:20:46] what Pacific specifically prevents them from doing it.

[3:20:50] And if it can't be prevented, how quickly will we know?

[3:20:54] You said uh also that um, you mentioned about uh that

[3:20:58] there's been no incidences.

[3:21:01] Um, during your audits, have you found any discrepancies?

[3:21:06] Has anybody done something even the slightest bit?

[3:21:09] No. That's good news. That's good news.

[3:21:13] Uh, you also said that um, you've had 43 success stories

[3:21:17] with the flat camera systems.

[3:21:20] But you didn't there's no breakdown of that.

[3:21:23] Could of these been discovered without flat cameras?

[3:21:27] I'm sure some, sure.

[3:21:30] Okay, so, um, I want to make my position clear.

[3:21:34] I believe in the concept of protecting our citizens.

[3:21:39] If this technology can help the police department,

[3:21:42] catch a dangerous criminal, locate a kidnapped child,

[3:21:45] identify a hit and run driver, recover a stolen car.

[3:21:49] I understand that and I and I believe that there are some

[3:21:52] good points to the flat camera system.

[3:21:56] But I, if we can't have safeguards in place for our

[3:22:01] rights as citizens and I was here voted upon by the citizens

[3:22:06] and as Candace mentioned, I wasn't here for the vote as well.

[3:22:10] Um, but I believe that it's not an either or

[3:22:14] that they have to everything has to be put in place

[3:22:18] to protect not only our citizens' privacies,

[3:22:22] but also protect our citizens from criminals.

[3:22:25] So, uh, if we're coming to any kind of vote tonight, which

[3:22:28] I know we're not, I would say that we need to pause this

[3:22:32] until we can get these safeguards in place, get some answers.

[3:22:36] One thing Candace says, we won't we don't even know all of this.

[3:22:39] I mean, we we're trying to figure out questions.

[3:22:42] Um, and there has been discrepancies between what

[3:22:46] Flock told us in the study section session

[3:22:49] to what's actually taking place.

[3:22:52] So, like I said, I respect our police department, I respect

[3:22:55] you very much, but things will can change.

[3:22:58] This is a five-year contract, who's to say who who's around?

[3:23:03] East Point had two officers, uh, there was another city that

[3:23:07] um, I thought it was Sterling Heights,

[3:23:09] but I don't want to say that out loud.

[3:23:10] Uh, so it could have been any different one, but it's here

[3:23:14] within our uh within the metropolitan area that

[3:23:19] an officer used that to track his ex-wife,

[3:23:22] he was ultimately fired.

[3:23:25] But what safeguards do we have that people aren't using these

[3:23:29] things for uh other uses?

[3:23:34] So, and I know that other people have I know we got a PowerPoint

[3:23:36] coming up here soon, so it might answer some more questions.

[3:23:40] Thank you. Mr. Vitale.

[3:23:42] Okay.

[3:23:43] I'm I guess I'm gonna I guess I'm gonna start out

[3:23:46] [applause]

[3:23:47] I'm gonna I'm gonna start out in the same way that my two

[3:23:50] colleagues have by just saying

[3:23:53] I'm going to use the word pause because I think there's certain

[3:23:56] legalities

[3:23:57] in terms of the contract and in terms of removing the cameras

[3:24:00] that we need to look into.

[3:24:02] And by saying pause and bag, that's something that, you know,

[3:24:05] we can do within 24 hours.

[3:24:08] So, that's why I'm saying that, not saying removal, I'm saying

[3:24:11] bag and discontinue the program.

[3:24:13] [applause]

[3:24:18] And I and I now I'd like to to give some reasons behind that.

[3:24:22] Now, I was one of the people who did vote for this.

[3:24:26] And I see that this is basically an unproven beta test that

[3:24:30] we've kind of been suggested subjected to.

[3:24:36] And I would like to know how did how did originally when

[3:24:40] this was brought in front of us, we had already had the cameras.

[3:24:45] The cameras had already been up for months.

[3:24:48] I don't know the exact period of time,

[3:24:50] I don't know if it's a full year.

[3:24:51] What?

[3:24:52] No.

[3:24:53] No. Wait a second.

[3:24:54] We were told these cameras were already up.

[3:24:58] No. Before they were voted on.

[3:24:59] Before they were voted on?

[3:25:01] No. No. No.

[3:25:02] Well then was that we was that would that we receiving

[3:25:04] information from other neighbor communities?

[3:25:08] Oh, there's yes. Yes. Yeah. Maybe that

[3:25:10] okay. All right. So

[3:25:12] we were receiving from other neighboring communities

[3:25:14] essentially the same type of information.

[3:25:18] We didn't have them physically in St. Clair Shores.

[3:25:21] That's correct. Correct. Totally. Right.

[3:25:23] Okay, so perhaps when I took that was that we were

[3:25:26] using information from other communities.

[3:25:32] How did those other communities

[3:25:34] end up with the cameras before we did.

[3:25:36] And how long in front of us, say Roseville or something like that.

[3:25:42] What did we just learn Eastpoint was 2024?

[3:25:44] So I don't I mean is that

[3:25:45] I mean I think we just

[3:25:46] we heard that at the at the their last meeting.

[3:25:49] I guess I was under the impression that this was a

[3:25:51] this was done by Ceressa.

[3:25:53] This is with who they solicited.

[3:25:55] That's not correct. That's not correct. No.

[3:25:58] Each individual department sought it separately.

[3:26:03] And I believe there's over like I think, I don't quote me

[3:26:05] but I think it's over, say

[3:26:06] probably be out here no more I duh the total totality.

[3:26:09] but I think there's over 6,000 just in the state of Michigan.

[3:26:12] And I think the first communities in Michigan was all the way back

[3:26:15] in 2020, 2021.

[3:26:18] Do you know what the number is that the county uses?

[3:26:21] How many cameras in Macomb County?

[3:26:24] Uh, I talked to the sheriff the other day. I believe he said 32.

[3:26:29] [laughter]

[3:26:34] No, and within Macomb County,

[3:26:35] that was the question I asked, not St. Clair Shores.

[3:26:40] that the sheriff uses? Yeah.

[3:26:41] Yeah, I think the sheriff's office has 32.

[3:26:44] Those are flock or are those something else, flock?

[3:26:47] Other jurisdictions within Macomb County have their own.

[3:26:51] Harper's a county road.

[3:26:53] Our Mile roads are county roads,

[3:26:55] the even numbered ones.

[3:26:58] If Macomb County wanted to put cameras up on Harper.

[3:27:02] Could we stop them?

[3:27:05] I that I don't know.

[3:27:07] I mean that's just let the air out of the air out of the whole spend your day in St. Clair Shores thing.

[3:27:11] [laughter]

[3:27:15] I don't think it would be wasteful for them.

[3:27:17] Oh, clearly for you.

[3:27:18] Well, I don't, not necessarily.

[3:27:21] I mean, you'd have a scenario where you're solving crimes

[3:27:23] that were St. Clair Shores resident on St. Clair Shores

[3:27:25] resident crime.

[3:27:28] theoretically.

[3:27:31] So, and and this goes to maybe Linda's point.

[3:27:35] I trust you. I've talked to you. I've known you for years.

[3:27:38] And I don't have any specific reason to have concerns about any of our officers.

[3:27:43] But the fact of the matter is is that you won't be there forever.

[3:27:46] Those officers won't be there forever. We won't be here forever.

[3:27:50] And eventually you may we may reach a point where we have a

[3:27:53] chief or a council or a county executive who feels like, well,

[3:27:56] why not have them on every corner.

[3:28:01] And how do you how do you stop that once you've kind of gone down this road?

[3:28:06] So, I think that scenario that it's just going to be if

[3:28:08] you leave

[3:28:09] St. Clair Shores it's going to go out the window fairly quickly.

[3:28:16] further apply that and say there are state roads.

[3:28:21] There are federal interstates.

[3:28:25] So those cameras could go up in any of those.

[3:28:29] We have cameras right now that MDOT has at our major

[3:28:32] intersections that

[3:28:34] do those have recording, not recording, do those have real

[3:28:37] time viewing capability?

[3:28:40] The MDOT cameras on I94. Yes.

[3:28:43] No, the ones, well, okay, sure.

[3:28:46] And how about the ones on Harper?

[3:28:47] Nine Mile and Harper. Yes.

[3:28:49] Those are county cameras, not MDOT.

[3:28:50] Now, I remember when that was explained to us and there was

[3:28:53] there was some consternation. I think those cameras have

[3:28:55] probably been up for 10 years.

[3:28:58] about those cameras going up and oh no, this is a surveillance

[3:29:01] state and why are there cameras

[3:29:03] and it was explained to us

[3:29:06] that those cameras are only there to detect the presence of a vehicle.

[3:29:11] and change the light timing.

[3:29:13] So if I'm coming and I and I've witnessed this before.

[3:29:15] I've I'm coming at an intersection

[3:29:16] at 4:00 in the morning and there's no one around, it gives me the green.

[3:29:22] So, that's what we were told.

[3:29:24] So I'm understanding it that there's just basically some

[3:29:27] vision program that sees an

[3:29:28] oncoming set of headlights or something like that, looks at

[3:29:31] the surrounding intersections,

[3:29:32] turns the light green for me to keep the traffic flowing.

[3:29:36] But now I'm learning that no, those can be viewed or monitored

[3:29:39] at any time.

[3:29:45] So say there's a crash at whatever 12 and Harper.

[3:29:48] Um, traffic's backed up.

[3:29:51] They could then they can view that intersection, they can change

[3:29:53] the light timing, they can do

[3:29:55] those types of things with the system.

[3:29:57] I've not seen it work in person out at Comtech, but that's my

[3:30:00] understanding.

[3:30:03] It isn't just sort of a robotic thing that detects the presence

[3:30:05] of a vehicle

[3:30:06] and changes light timing. There's human beings who can monitor

[3:30:09] from the eye.

[3:30:11] in the sky.

[3:30:13] Yeah.

[3:30:15] that's that seems different than what I recall being called.

[3:30:18] I think that's what occurs I believe there's 350 of these cameras by

[3:30:22] operated by the Macom County Department of Roads. Roughly 350.

[3:30:25] cameras. And I I believe counselman they they can flip them on and have them all live.

[3:30:32] Okay. And if they can go live, they can be recorded.

[3:30:35] I don't think they are being recorded, but they can go live.

[3:30:38] I mean you can plug a video output into a VCR and record something. I mean

[3:30:43] So that capability would be there.

[3:30:47] Um, you do have a summary of flock success stories. I believe I I tried to count them quick.

[3:30:54] They're 19 of these listed.

[3:30:56] It's about right.

[3:30:59] About 19.

[3:31:01] I went through these and there's really only one

[3:31:06] that actually prevented a crime.

[3:31:10] And that was uh, serial retail fraud suspect, used flock to place vehicle in the area

[3:31:17] at the time of the crime and its alert function to notify patrol

[3:31:21] was able to stop the vehicle and make arrest and impound the vehicle.

[3:31:25] retail fraud.

[3:31:28] But I've got to say for a lot of these that are listed as success stories,

[3:31:34] It just says um, stolen vehicle by family member used flock to show

[3:31:41] vehicle was last observed in Michigan and did not leave the state.

[3:31:45] I mean, I I don't know really if that I'd call that a success story.

[3:31:49] It just proves that a crime.

[3:31:50] And no, I understand and and I hate this because people are laughing and I'm not

[3:31:55] trying to make fun of the work that the work that the chief has done or the police department.

[3:31:58] I'm trying to make a serious point here.

[3:32:00] And the serious point is that we're calling this a success. It's not really a success.

[3:32:06] And I'm not saying that humorously.

[3:32:09] But I don't know if we can really call that a success.

[3:32:12] So, and you know, there there is a case up here at the top, just to be fair,

[3:32:17] that talks about someone placing a skimmer on an ATM and led to the identification of a suspect.

[3:32:25] But a lot of these crimes, I would not classify as headlines.

[3:32:32] And of course any crime is, you know, a bad crime.

[3:32:34] But I I will also say this, the police have tools within their toolbox right now

[3:32:40] that they don't necessarily use.

[3:32:42] I had a resident who observed someone throwing the entire fast food bag out a window.

[3:32:48] And they took a picture of it, took a picture of the license plate, uh

[3:32:52] posted on Facebook and then basically said can't anything be done about this.

[3:32:56] And and and I hate littering because I hate littering because I think that's like a psychopathic crime really to do that.

[3:33:00] There's no gain to you.

[3:33:03] But I asked and it was explained to me by the deputy chief that, okay,

[3:33:09] we got a license plate number, but we don't know who's in the car.

[3:33:14] So we would have to bring that person in, whoever the registered owner

[3:33:18] and then have a lineup, probably get some similar people to stand next to him

[3:33:23] and then that person who observed it would have to identify the person

[3:33:27] and then we could issue them a littering ticket.

[3:33:29] Now, of course, I understand we don't do that. That's an enormous imposition

[3:33:34] on civil liberties and things like that.

[3:33:36] But we have the tool, we have the capability

[3:33:39] And a lot of these that are listed as success stories are

[3:33:44] essentially just looking up the person who's identified with the license plate.

[3:33:51] Um, there's another one here that says identity theft victim reported someone purchased three vehicles in her name.

[3:33:57] Used flock to help identify the colors of these vehicles for lean entry and confirm

[3:34:03] they may not have entered St. Clair Shores affirming the victim statement.

[3:34:08] I don't even know how that disproves or proves anything.

[3:34:11] They just say they never came into St. Clair Shores.

[3:34:13] I've purchased cars in Arizona before, never brought them into the city.

[3:34:18] So, I guess what I'm just trying to say is is that there's a great number listed on here

[3:34:23] and I don't know if I can call all of these success stories.

[3:34:27] And at the same time I have a lot of horror stories.

[3:34:32] And I've got some that I'm going to, you know, put into my council comments

[3:34:36] and they really deal more with the flock company itself and the technology

[3:34:43] end of it.

[3:34:44] I I think we've kind of covered the whole idea of officer abuses.

[3:34:49] I'm I don't want to sound callous, but I suppose I'm less concerned with that

[3:34:53] because we right already we have a lean system and lean has existed for probably

[3:34:58] your entire career?

[3:34:59] Longer.

[3:35:00] Or longer.

[3:35:01] And you can get in trouble for using the lean system if you're not supposed

[3:35:05] to use the lean system, and I think that we have officers who get in trouble

[3:35:09] for using the lean system.

[3:35:12] Um,

[3:35:13] Can you give us what the acronym is for that so people know

[3:35:16] Law enforcement information network.

[3:35:18] Okay, It's basically everything that correlates a license plate

[3:35:21] to the driver and the address.

[3:35:24] That that's one of the programs that lean provides information.

[3:35:27] Yeah.

[3:35:28] And and we have, you know, there's opportunity

[3:35:30] to abuse that system as well.

[3:35:32] And it has been,

[3:35:34] but, you know, we haven't given it up in 50 years of having it.

[3:35:38] Um,

[3:35:39] So again, it's not an indictment on an officer

[3:35:42] or department or anything like that.

[3:35:45] I would really just like to concentrate on the efficacy

[3:35:49] of these cameras,

[3:35:50] which honestly on a return on investment,

[3:35:54] It's to me it's not there and I think that some of what I'm going to put up

[3:35:57] in my uh,

[3:36:00] council um, participation will show that.

[3:36:05] The analogy that I used is that if, um,

[3:36:10] if flock were a piece of DPW equipment

[3:36:13] that we bought to plow snow,

[3:36:16] but every year we weren't even getting snow that was worth plowing,

[3:36:20] we wouldn't just go out and buy it because it existed.

[3:36:24] So

[3:36:25] what I'm seeing is crimelines that dramatically have been dropping off

[3:36:28] in some cases for 20 years.

[3:36:32] And it's not due to flock.

[3:36:35] [applause] So, I don't think we can attribute

[3:36:36] it to flock.

[3:36:37] [applause]

[3:36:42] And there there is too the idea that this is these are being

[3:36:44] purchased with um,

[3:36:46] uh drug forfeiture funds.

[3:36:49] I feel like this the flock company must know that this is a huge

[3:36:53] pot of money nationwide.

[3:36:56] [laughter]

[3:36:57] And this is a great way to burn off some money that we are

[3:37:00] very unfairly restricted from spending elsewhere.

[3:37:05] The money that we spend on flock that comes out of this law enforcement

[3:37:09] forfeiture fund,

[3:37:12] we can't spend it on new officers.

[3:37:13] We can't spend it on in some cases better equipment.

[3:37:17] We can't replace equipment.

[3:37:19] There's all kinds of restrictions on this and places that I would

[3:37:22] rather spend the flock money.

[3:37:26] But, you know, we're handcuffed and it would be nice if some of those

[3:37:29] handcuffs were taken off.

[3:37:31] [laughter]

[3:37:33] Um, and that again, that's something that has to occur

[3:37:36] at the federal level, that's not going to get solved

[3:37:38] in City Hall tonight.

[3:37:40] But I also feel like, you know, whoever's running this company

[3:37:43] knows that this qualifies under

[3:37:47] uh, LEF funds.

[3:37:49] So, let's go rush this thing out there.

[3:37:52] And that's part of the problem really in the slides too

[3:37:55] and the YouTube presentation that I'm going to call up

[3:37:58] and give the address to

[3:38:00] is that this is like beta level and the whole idea was to just

[3:38:03] get it out quick and get paid.

[3:38:08] So that's where a lot of these problems are.

[3:38:10] And unfortunately, when I voted for this, I didn't know any of that.

[3:38:15] I've come to learn it and I've come to regret my vote.

[3:38:18] [applause]

[3:38:19] But, you know, it we had to, we had to kind of get to a critical mass here.

[3:38:22] I I mean, I did, you know, I hope I can get backed up.

[3:38:26] Some of the people who I think brought everybody down here,

[3:38:28] at least one of those people, I did contact in advance

[3:38:31] when we had our study session,

[3:38:33] and I said, come to the study session.

[3:38:35] Because I don't like this idea of living in this uh,

[3:38:37] Fahrenheit 451, uh,

[3:38:40] 1984 type world.

[3:38:44] I use I used older references.

[3:38:47] I used older references than then Canda used.

[3:38:50] [laughter]

[3:38:51] But I don't like that either. I don't want to live in a world

[3:38:54] where I've got to worry about a drone looking over my shoulder

[3:38:56] all the time.

[3:38:58] And I think this kind of leads to that.

[3:39:00] So those are those are my concerns. They're far higher and above

[3:39:03] anything at our local police.

[3:39:07] So,

[3:39:08] um, I guess that's what I have to say about the presentation.

[3:39:12] Thank you.

[3:39:13] [applause] Okay.

[3:39:14] [applause]

[3:39:19] just to uh clarify real quick just so there is no

[3:39:21] misunderstanding.

[3:39:23] Uh, with McCollum County's uh use of the 32 flock cameras.

[3:39:28] McColm County, a lot of our communities in McColm County

[3:39:30] are townships.

[3:39:32] So you have Clinton Township, Chesterville Township,

[3:39:34] McColm Township.

[3:39:35] Those are actually taking care of by the McColm County

[3:39:38] Sheriff's department.

[3:39:40] So those they're not municipalities, so those townships utilize the

[3:39:43] cameras based upon the county.

[3:39:47] None of them cities actually will have the county flock cameras in them.

[3:39:52] So I think it would be unique that if the county wanted to put

[3:39:55] them in our city, I don't think that would necessarily go.

[3:39:57] It's the townships that they are servicing and providing the police

[3:40:00] service for.

[3:40:01] I agree with you.

[3:40:03] And in fact, when I learned how many were in the county,

[3:40:06] I immediately thought this is going to be everybody, every Township that's

[3:40:08] patrolled and doesn't have an established police department.

[3:40:11] Right, that's correct.

[3:40:12] But, having said that,

[3:40:14] if it's a county road and they own the

[3:40:17] I don't think there's anything that

[3:40:20] stops them from putting the camera up.

[3:40:22] So, all you out there that are here

[3:40:26] [applause]

[3:40:29] Yeah, I'm good.

[3:40:30] Mr. Rabel.

[3:40:33] Uh, thank you, Mayor.

[3:40:35] I think one of the points here.

[3:40:38] I, every, every sort of city, I think,

[3:40:43] has its own makeup. And there's some

[3:40:46] towns that probably like this stuff,

[3:40:50] and there's some it doesn't, it that

[3:40:52] don't go for it, okay? I always thought

[3:40:57] that, uh, when I first saw the program,

[3:41:01] I, I learned everything really in the

[3:41:04] last two and a half weeks. I thought

[3:41:06] that this was a great thing. And one

[3:41:09] thing, um, it seems to me that

[3:41:11] chief's taken a little heat here, but

[3:41:15] it ain't that man's fault because five

[3:41:15] of us placed votes to put these things

[3:41:18] in, okay? 100%. So, he's a good man

[3:41:21] and if anyone's to blame right now,

[3:41:23] it would be us, okay? So, you're a good

[3:41:25] [applause]

[3:41:26] [applause] So, I know you're sort of

[3:41:30] sitting up at the podium there and you

[3:41:33] gotta take a little bit but we put 'em

[3:41:36] in. You did not, okay? So, um,

[3:41:38] to me people don't have to hit me over

[3:41:42] the head, uh, too many times. I

[3:41:45] probably have taken a few too many.

[3:41:48] But I hear the words, you know,

[3:41:51] sabotage, hacks, you get viruses, AI,

[3:41:54] this stuff's not contained. And the,

[3:41:59] and the really the, the big point to

[3:42:02] me is, um, it's the common question,

[3:42:06] safety versus how much privacy will you

[3:42:10] give up for it, okay? And to me it

[3:42:14] looks like, uh, people here like their

[3:42:19] [applause] I get it.

[3:42:20] [applause]

[3:42:22] I think there, I think that part sort

[3:42:25] of been left out a little bit because

[3:42:30] it's really not about how much those

[3:42:32] cameras catch because when I first

[3:42:35] heard about it, my God, what a great

[3:42:39] tool to catch the bad guys. But then

[3:42:41] as we sort of got a little bit deeper

[3:42:43] into it, and people start looking at,

[3:42:46] well, we're, you know, there's some,

[3:42:49] there's some American rights that

[3:42:53] they're looking at giving up. And

[3:42:55] there's people that don't want to do

[3:42:57] it. They'll live with a little bit, uh,

[3:43:00] less safety. And I, that's, that's how

[3:43:03] it goes. So, um, I voted, uh, yes for

[3:43:09] this. Heck, I might even been the the

[3:43:12] guy that made the motion for it, okay?

[3:43:13] But I learned as I went that, listen,

[3:43:18] this, this town ain't going for it.

[3:43:20] And, um, and there's, and there's

[3:43:22] plenty of towns that aren't going for

[3:43:24] it. And that's no fault of yours,

[3:43:27] okay? That's five people's up here's

[3:43:31] fault who are there to vote for it.

[3:43:34] So, you misuse hacks, like

[3:43:37] everything else it seems that, you

[3:43:39] know, you might have something good you

[3:43:42] thought and then it gets it, it you

[3:43:45] lose it, it gets out of control. And

[3:43:49] it turns into a bad thing, much like

[3:43:54] the the internet or something like

[3:43:58] that. It's a great tool for for

[3:44:01] research and history, but then some

[3:44:04] people don't use it, uh, the right

[3:44:06] way. So, I don't want to keep going

[3:44:10] with it. But I get it. It took me and

[3:44:15] I've had conversations with some people

[3:44:19] up here. I thought it was a great,

[3:44:21] great crime fighting tool. But it looks

[3:44:25] like it's gone sideways and so many

[3:44:27] cases. I don't, I'm not going to

[3:44:31] rehash them all, but um, you know,

[3:44:34] [laughter, applause] Yeah.

[3:44:36] big government, it's all the sort of

[3:44:38] the things that people talk about. And

[3:44:40] that's the world we live in right now

[3:44:45] and, uh, people want their privacy, I

[3:44:50] guess, more than their than, you know,

[3:44:53] what they think, uh, a safety camera

[3:44:54] can do for them. So that's sort of

[3:44:59] where I stand. If I could, you know,

[3:45:02] I, I would air on the side of covering

[3:45:04] the things up right now or or

[3:45:06] trashing them or whatever you do.

[3:45:07] Um, thanks, Mayor. So, yeah, I did, I

[3:45:11] did vote for it. And, uh,

[3:45:13] I do want uh more information.

[3:45:16] And I know it's good theater to say that,

[3:45:19] you know, the flock salesman will come down

[3:45:21] and we can beat him up and all that,

[3:45:23] but at the end of the day,

[3:45:25] I want the tech guy here.

[3:45:26] I want to know what these guys are doing, what the long-term strategy is for that company.

[3:45:31] I want way more information.

[3:45:33] This might hang on. This might actually

[3:45:35] get stuff out in the open.

[3:45:38] I think St. Clair Shores one of those

[3:45:40] towns that says, hey, look,

[3:45:42] we got more information from them.

[3:45:45] And it was good or it was bad, I'm not even sure.

[3:45:48] Uh, I'm not 100% convinced that uh,

[3:45:52] that, you know, the, you know, where do we draw the line

[3:45:54] for the safety

[3:45:57] versus, you know, rights.

[3:45:59] I I know we've got I I know it happens

[3:46:01] and I appreciate all of you folks

[3:46:03] coming here tonight and and voicing your opinion.

[3:46:06] But we do know that, you know, you

[3:46:08] you don't there's a lot of people aren't going to show up and go,

[3:46:11] oh, we want to keep the canvas.

[3:46:12] Right? That's just not how this works.

[3:46:14] We've been up here I've been up here a long time, and seen it many times.

[3:46:18] But at the end of the day,

[3:46:20] I think we'd we need a lot more information.

[3:46:23] Um, I know, you know, you know,

[3:46:25] I know a lot of our guys that are

[3:46:27] and gals that are out there doing doing the on the job every day.

[3:46:31] You've been awesome. They're awesome.

[3:46:33] We've had no problems in our in our house at all.

[3:46:37] But like like Dave and and many people said here, we, you know,

[3:46:40] we have no control over anybody else.

[3:46:42] So, how do we how do we get control?

[3:46:46] How do we get beyond that?

[3:46:48] How do we how do we take the next step?

[3:46:50] And if it means taking them down or covering them up or whatever,

[3:46:54] then I'm I'm okay with that too.

[3:46:55] But I want to I want more information.

[3:46:58] If there's a way we can get the tech guy here or or the CEO or somebody.

[3:47:02] [laughter]

[3:47:03] Somebody that's on that.

[3:47:06] Some somebody that

[3:47:07] So it's so it's not it's not Fox 2 here or or whatever,

[3:47:11] It you know, maybe it's may maybe it's

[3:47:14] Fox National or CNN or somebody like that.

[3:47:17] It's a it's a bigger thing to ask those folks the questions

[3:47:21] and have them lie on camera if that's what you think they're going to do,

[3:47:25] then it is for them to not come at all because we think it'll be funny, right?

[3:47:30] So, I guess I want more information.

[3:47:33] I want I want to take that part to the next step.

[3:47:35] And then and then let's see what happens.

[3:47:38] So, what what I hear here is that from a

[3:47:42] number is that we we cover them immediately.

[3:47:46] Uh, we we cover we cover them.

[3:47:48] [applause]

[3:47:55] We we

[3:47:58] We I I think we need to put a time frame

[3:48:01] so that so everyone knows that we

[3:48:03] we cover them for at least I think

[3:48:04] you got to cover them for six months.

[3:48:06] I think you got to cover up rights,

[3:48:07] there's there's time so that everyone knows that these are these are on here

[3:48:10] for at least six months,

[3:48:12] which is, you know, we'll pick a meeting in March, right, that we

[3:48:15] would put it this back on the agenda

[3:48:17] and they cannot be removed till it comes back to an agenda item here,

[3:48:20] like we have here.

[3:48:22] We could then make the next decision

[3:48:25] whether it's to continue to keep cover them, take them all down

[3:48:27] or, you know, use flock. I don't know, right?

[3:48:29] But I I think that's a thought that we would we we would do.

[3:48:33] Six six months must be back.

[3:48:35] Can't take can't take the bags off till

[3:48:37] they comes to to a next council meeting

[3:48:39] with an agenda item that can't be removed.

[3:48:43] that's a directive we can give and and Miss Burgess.

[3:48:47] [applause]

[3:49:07] I would like to add, though, during that six months, we will do

[3:49:11] investigation, we'll, for sure.

[3:49:14] you know, do our due diligence.

[3:49:15] So we're not just waiting till March and no.

[3:49:18] No, there's there's I just wanted to make sure that they knew that.

[3:49:26] We we are we that here

[3:49:28] Miss said about investigation.

[3:49:30] Mr. F, you'll have your chance

[3:49:32] under audience under under audience participation.

[3:49:37] So, are we good with that directive, yes?

[3:49:38] Uh, Chief and Mr. Lent, are we we good?

[3:49:41] of this body here? I mean, that's what, yeah.

[3:49:46] let's let's make it the second meeting in March.

[3:49:48] So that we're that we all understand

[3:49:52] the date, which is 2026.

[3:49:54] 2027, 27.

[3:49:56] 27.

[3:50:00] Teak, thank you. Okay, thank you.

[3:50:03] [laughter]

[3:50:06] Uh, number item item item 11 is uh comments by individual council members.

[3:50:11] uh, Mr. Rebel.

[3:50:14] Hello, Bonnie.

[3:50:16] [laughter] I don't wanna do it. It's good.

[3:50:18] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

[3:50:20] You're you're done. Headquartered 11.

[3:50:23] All right, we will move on.

[3:50:25] Mark that down. Yes, I'm Mark that down. Mark that down.

[3:50:30] Miss Rooney.

[3:50:31] Uh, just a quick thank you to everybody for the Apple pie.

[3:50:34] we get the senior center. It's a big fundraiser for the meal program.

[3:50:38] Uh first off, thank you to all the purchasers who helped make this

[3:50:41] program successful.

[3:50:42] and especially a big thank you to the staff and all the volunteers

[3:50:45] who spend a week peeling, coring, slicing apples, baking

[3:50:48] over a thousand pies.

[3:50:51] And uh again, this is a big fundraiser for the meal program

[3:50:53] at the senior center.

[3:50:55] Uh, I was there every single day.

[3:50:58] I worked beside people who are also there every single day.

[3:51:00] Dave was there I think three or four days.

[3:51:02] just peeling, slicing,

[3:51:04] like over, like what was it, like a hundred bushels of apples.

[3:51:07] It was a lot and uh

[3:51:09] it's all over, pies were delicious, it was successful

[3:51:11] and it helps subsidize the meal program to provide seniors with

[3:51:15] hot lunches in uh at the center.

[3:51:17] so, thank you to everybody for that.

[3:51:19] I have one sec. Thank you.

[3:51:20] [applause]

[3:51:23] Thank you. Because I won't have a chance to probably ever do this

[3:51:25] again, but

[3:51:29] It's September 4th, 21st.

[3:51:32] Body, uh, I don't know if you guys know what that would insinuate.

[3:51:36] The 21st night of September.

[3:51:38] I'll pick it up for you, Dave. I know what you mean. All right.

[3:51:40] Uh, Mr. Keren.

[3:51:43] I'm trying to recover from whatever that comment was.

[3:51:46] [laughter]

[3:51:49] Do you remember?

[3:51:51] That's so Alexander Street.

[3:51:53] I know that is slated for uhm, the road paving to begin

[3:51:56] within a couple of weeks.

[3:51:58] I did get a concern from the resident.

[3:52:01] Uhm, normally a street repair or street replacement, we do one lane

[3:52:04] on one side then we come back and do the other lane.

[3:52:08] This one in accordance from the email I got from uh Nancy

[3:52:12] Engineering this morning.

[3:52:14] Uh, we're doing both sides at once

[3:52:16] in the attempt to get it done quicker.

[3:52:19] full width paving so that way it gets done, cured within seven days,

[3:52:24] and people can begin to drive on it again.

[3:52:26] But that will be more inconvenient for the resident.

[3:52:29] So, ask you to, you know, I believe a letter went out to the residents

[3:52:34] telling them the restrictions of what the full width paving will mean.

[3:52:39] Okay. Okay.

[3:52:41] So,

[3:52:43] We may want to deliver, so they're delivered in August.

[3:52:46] but we may want to deliver them again, just so the people are aware.

[3:52:49] Uhm, and also to make sure if there's anybody that has mobility issues,

[3:52:53] uhm, that they are being taken care of.

[3:52:55] that their neighbors are aware, where they're at and can help out.

[3:52:59] Uhm, I know one of the gentlemen that was here at the town hall

[3:53:01] we did back in May, they did say yet a neighbor that would need help

[3:53:03] for things like that.

[3:53:05] So, make sure that handsy reaches out to everybody to understand

[3:53:09] if there's any potential concern anywhere in that street.

[3:53:12] And that since that's typically not what we do.

[3:53:15] All right. Uhm, next in terms of the uh muck cleanup.

[3:53:20] want to thank Representative St. Germain for uh, anyone speaking

[3:53:23] earlier, but also staying for the entire meeting.

[3:53:26] Uhm, Yes, you got so many.

[3:53:30] You you actually got more assignments out of this meeting than we did.

[3:53:32] Amazingly.

[3:53:34] Uhm, but to your muck cleaner.

[3:53:36] since I'm currently going through the permitting process for that

[3:53:39] with both Eagle and Army Corps,

[3:53:42] uhm, once I get through it, once I actually get the permits,

[3:53:45] I'm going to have so many suggestions for you.

[3:53:46] in that for that bill.

[3:53:47] So, uhm, hang on for that.

[3:53:50] And last thing,

[3:53:51] Uhm, sent an email a couple of weeks ago regarding the trash

[3:53:55] capture device that was installed

[3:53:57] on the Stevens drain that the city is responsible for uh or agreed

[3:54:01] to be responsible for retrieving the trash.

[3:54:04] And I asked for a plan for when that would be done.

[3:54:08] and did not get a reply back on that one.

[3:54:11] But basically my observations of it after every storm that gets a

[3:54:14] half inch, there's enough flow out of that drain where it will push

[3:54:17] trash and get captured.

[3:54:20] Uhm, so we just got to set up a timetable of when DPW will go down

[3:54:23] to retrieve that.

[3:54:27] Brian's not here, but I know that I think him and Jeff and Russ were

[3:54:30] We're working on that, we're working on a capture plan. Yes.

[3:54:33] Okay. All right. And that's it. Thank you.

[3:54:39] Mr. Farrow, I'm gonna step out for one second.

[3:54:40] Do after you're done, you can keep. Okay. We'll keep it going. All right.

[3:54:44] Thanks, Mayor.

[3:54:44] You stay in there because I'm I'm the official Mayor Pro Tem

[3:54:46] right now, so.

[3:54:48] I'll give the gabel too. [laughter]

[3:54:51] Uhm, I've only got two very short things.

[3:54:53] Uh the first one is I usually give a library uh

[3:54:55] announcement and the announcement is

[3:54:57] the library is going to be open on Saturday, right? So.

[3:55:01] [applause]

[3:55:03] Next Saturday. Next Saturday.

[3:55:06] Next Saturday. Not this Saturday.

[3:55:08] take any of that back. Next Saturday.

[3:55:10] It's in October, October.

[3:55:14] So, but that's the exciting thing.

[3:55:15] It it's been light at the end of the tunnel.

[3:55:18] Uh, new new genealogy department in there. We got Maker space,

[3:55:22] kids, teens.

[3:55:23] It's all it looks so good. Uh, Can I

[3:55:26] and and our city manager, we're on we're on the on the committee that

[3:55:30] uh worked on this.

[3:55:31] And uh, you know, a lot of bumps in the road, but my God, we got it through.

[3:55:35] And we also want to thank the state.

[3:55:37] Uh, I know uh, Alicia, you and and Maizong and all that got us uh a

[3:55:42] half a million dollars to help with the library.

[3:55:44] See, this this is why we we do these studies and things like that

[3:55:48] so that we can call them and go, by the way, look, we do need it.

[3:55:51] because somebody figured it out that we needed it.

[3:55:53] So, thank you everybody that that participated in that.

[3:55:55] And then the last thing is, uh,

[3:55:58] I got a note from um our folks at the Fire Department.

[3:56:02] that says uh St. Clair Shores Fire Department, Fire Prevention Week

[3:56:06] open house, celebrating our 99th anniversary.

[3:56:09] 99 years. We have to give them another proclamation next year.

[3:56:13] Um, Central Fire Station, everybody knows where that is.

[3:56:16] 27600 Harper Avenue is also going to be open October 3rd for

[3:56:20] an open house, 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m.

[3:56:23] Uh, tons of fire safety information and more. There'll be

[3:56:26] a lot of stuff for the kids.

[3:56:27] Refreshments, you get to walk through the place.

[3:56:29] And it is, if you haven't gone through it yet, it's worth the trip.

[3:56:34] This is this is state of the art.

[3:56:36] Uh, I give my buddy here, Mr. Vitaly credit for coming up with

[3:56:41] the Hazmet, the Hazmat showers.

[3:56:43] And Dave too, to make sure that when they go to a flyer and they

[3:56:46] come back, they can they can get all those carcinogens off of them.

[3:56:49] My kid's a firefighter.

[3:56:51] He's jawing in my ear a lot about this stuff.

[3:56:53] So, I appreciate you taking care of our guys and and gals.

[3:56:56] And by the way, the two separate lacrooms.

[3:56:58] How nice that that'll be for them, right?

[3:57:02] And then uh and that also is going to be the refreshments are

[3:57:05] going to be provided by the Union, Fire Fighter's Union number 1744,

[3:57:10] and they're celebrating their 59th anniversary.

[3:57:13] So that's all I have. Mr. Vitali, you're next. What have you got?

[3:57:17] Um, well, while the Assistant City manager slowly boots up the

[3:57:21] PowerPoints dot.

[3:57:22] I'm I'm going to just acknowledge because I know Dave is dying over here.

[3:57:25] 21st of September, Earthwind and Fire.

[3:57:29] The chorus was come up with by a St. Clair Shores resident.

[3:57:36] What's your St. Clair Shores connection?

[3:57:40] She had a St. Clair Shores connection?

[3:57:43] Ali Willis lived in here. Yes.

[3:57:46] Okay. Good enough. All right, let's move on.

[3:57:49] Do you remember Do you remember this every 21st well, I guess

[3:57:52] not every 21st of September, but

[3:57:54] All right, so, you know, this is the result of a little bit of

[3:57:58] flock research I did.

[3:57:58] I'll be honest with you, I found

[3:58:01] probably I watch a lot of these videos.

[3:58:03] I found probably the best video on this.

[3:58:05] That is just full of questions.

[3:58:07] And if you want to Google it, it's we we hacked Flock AT&T

[3:58:11] camera in under 30 seconds.

[3:58:13] Put that in YouTube.

[3:58:15] Because that's a really deep dive in it

[3:58:17] and some of the things that were done with this.

[3:58:20] I can only assume that, you know, he's got congressmen and Senate

[3:58:23] people that are interested in this.

[3:58:26] Um, and and even one of those things is that,

[3:58:29] in one of the I think Carlton, Texas, they were able to actually

[3:58:32] go in hack into the actual police database, pull up where

[3:58:37] the patrol cars were because they have GPS on them.

[3:58:41] And then actually get the officer's identities and their addresses

[3:58:44] and everything too.

[3:58:46] So, this appears to be a very hackable system.

[3:58:50] And and some of the things the security experts talk about is

[3:58:53] that they can't believe how vulnerable this thing is.

[3:58:55] That it the so-called two two-factor authentication is

[3:59:00] pretty primitive actually that you can just sit there with a Wi-Fi

[3:59:05] antenna and get that.

[3:59:07] There are much higher levels of security.

[3:59:09] I know that from a bank account I have, I actually have to have a

[3:59:13] like a chip transponder in order to be able to pull money out of

[3:59:15] that account.

[3:59:17] And they don't even have that for this flock flock identification.

[3:59:22] But I also want to just count on this quite honestly, from a

[3:59:25] return on investment standpoint. So you go to the next slide.

[3:59:29] I mean, these are these are met this is Detroit City property

[3:59:33] homicide rates, which are actually now where they were at in the 60s.

[3:59:41] And the smaller chart in there is actually um gunshot.

[3:59:47] So everything's way down.

[3:59:48] And they're a neighboring community, so that's important to us.

[3:59:52] You go to the next one, please.

[3:59:54] And this is this is St. Clair Shores homicides.

[3:59:57] And that is a what is that? Goes from 2003 to 26.

[4:00:01] And we've never gone above one, and there's a lot of space in those.

[4:00:06] So, we're pretty safe community when it comes to that.

[4:00:09] If you can go to the next one.

[4:00:12] motor vehicle theft. And for this one, I went back to 203.

[4:00:15] You see where it was.

[4:00:17] And you see where the trend is.

[4:00:19] And when you actually get down to like the last couple years,

[4:00:21] it doesn't really get above like four, five.

[4:00:25] Now, there is a spike in there that I circled.

[4:00:29] That's the Kia, boys.

[4:00:30] [laughter]

[4:00:31] It's when everybody figured out how to hack the Kia,

[4:00:33] ignition to that's what that's.

[4:00:35] That's nationwide, that's every community.

[4:00:38] You can go to the next one.

[4:00:40] [laughter]

[4:00:41] Um, this is robbery reports, St. Clair Shores.

[4:00:45] I mean, 2008 was was probably the dangerous time here.

[4:00:49] But, you know, that goes down

[4:00:51] and, you know, if you want to look at these, they all came from FBI.

[4:00:54] The FBI breaks it down all the way down to community.

[4:00:57] Um, so, pretty good database there.

[4:01:00] And this is kind of what I was saying is that, you know,

[4:01:03] if the DPW were coming in front of us and we suddenly got so much

[4:01:06] uh climate change, that we weren't getting snow anymore,

[4:01:10] and they wanted to buy a fleet of snow plow, we would be like,

[4:01:13] what, what? We haven't had snow in four years now.

[4:01:16] Why do we need to renew all these snow?

[4:01:18] Well, I kind of feel like this. We're on a nice downward trend.

[4:01:21] And honestly, to preserve our fourth Amendment,

[4:01:24] I'm willing to live with 2024 levels of safety.

[4:01:27] [applause]

[4:01:31] Just don't see it.

[4:01:33] I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

[4:01:36] Unfortunately, I I again, our hands are kind of tied on how

[4:01:38] many things they can be spent on.

[4:01:40] But I definitely think there's better returns on investment.

[4:01:44] And I think that's why flock released what is a fairly hackable

[4:01:47] system if I can believe everything in that YouTube video,

[4:01:51] which to jump in, get that money, and they're already offering

[4:01:55] people buyouts, and a year from now they might not be in business.

[4:01:59] Now, that's not to say that Aan or some other company won't take

[4:02:03] their place. I expect that will happen.

[4:02:05] But I would also say to the city attorney,

[4:02:07] please look into our legal remedies regarding that contract.

[4:02:12] Because I would just assume not pay it, drag it out, and then the

[4:02:17] entity that used to be flock and try to collect.

[4:02:21] [laughter]

[4:02:23] I think that's a pretty real possibility.

[4:02:26] [applause]

[4:02:27] So, all right, we can go to the the next one.

[4:02:30] Oh, and this is this is essentially Larceny. This is shoplifting.

[4:02:36] So, I I mean, look the bad old days of 1985.

[4:02:41] When I was a kid, roam the streets, peddle my bike everywhere in

[4:02:45] St. Clair Shores and look how much more crime was going on around me.

[4:02:49] [laughter]

[4:02:52] I didn't catch that. That was it me.

[4:02:55] No, I'm not responsible for for all that.

[4:03:01] Anyway, so, you know, I just wanted to give sort of a a sense

[4:03:04] of scale on this.

[4:03:05] And I also want to say this too, that, you know,

[4:03:08] there were a few points where I I felt people were being a little

[4:03:11] hard on the chief there.

[4:03:12] And and Dave said it best, we're the ones who did it.

[4:03:15] He's got to defend a system that we voted for.

[4:03:18] So, that that's his job.

[4:03:20] Just like it's the city's attorney's job to defend

[4:03:22] us all the time.

[4:03:24] So you please do understand that.

[4:03:26] I'm glad that so many people did show up to the meeting,

[4:03:30] because this is democracy and action.

[4:03:33] And I will tell you right now, the same thing that I told the

[4:03:35] two gentlemen over breakfast

[4:03:37] that are here and I think probably got a lot of you to come down,

[4:03:40] is that I did not think the mass was there to get rid of these.

[4:03:45] I was in favor of some guard rails and some guidelines and some

[4:03:48] further handcuffing of it,

[4:03:50] but I said pragmatically, I you're not going to convince the council.

[4:03:54] Well, you want to know who convinced the council? You all

[4:03:56] convinced the council.

[4:03:58] [applause]

[4:04:01] So, now I would tell you this,

[4:04:04] go to County Commissioner meetings.

[4:04:07] Go to Sterling Heights City Council meetings.

[4:04:10] Go to some of the other because you can't let off with this

[4:04:13] just because you got us.

[4:04:16] So, and and of course, we are going to revisit this, and but I

[4:04:20] think we'll be very aware of it going further and I won't belabor

[4:04:22] it further.

[4:04:24] Uh, next one, please.

[4:04:26] Okay. Uh, this was for Denise. We already talked about this.

[4:04:29] We license landscapers and we let 'em do jobs like this.

[4:04:32] This cannot go on. All this garbage ends up into the storm

[4:04:35] drains, which clogs it,

[4:04:38] flows out to the flows off to the lake.

[4:04:40] We cannot allow people to do this.

[4:04:43] [applause]

[4:04:46] So, kind of on a related note, can you go to the next one, please?

[4:04:49] So, everybody's clapping.

[4:04:51] The next St. Clair Shores I 94 ramp clean up

[4:04:54] will be Saturday, October 10th at 10:00 a.m.

[4:04:58] that great group of volunteers goes out, puts on the yellow vest,

[4:05:02] picks up all the psychopath litter that people throw out the window there.

[4:05:06] Um, we gather that up.

[4:05:08] Try to keep those inner keep those uh freeway ramps looking clean and

[4:05:12] and we'll be sure that we leave the bags alone

[4:05:14] on the cameras while we're out there.

[4:05:16] Um, and then one more after that.

[4:05:20] I also wanted to mention because this came up on Facebook,

[4:05:22] just to let everybody know.

[4:05:24] the last long Monday where you can go to DPW

[4:05:27] and drop off broken concrete, masonry,

[4:05:31] stuff, get rid of junk like that,

[4:05:33] uh or just a a big load of trash out of your pickup

[4:05:36] and shove it in the compactor.

[4:05:38] Your last chance on that is going to be Monday, October

[4:05:42] 12th, or you have to sit on it till April.

[4:05:45] So, that was all I had for tonight.

[4:05:48] Thank you. Ms. Burges.

[4:05:50] First of all, I want to thank you all for showing up.

[4:05:53] Um, I appreciate the things that people said,

[4:05:57] and I will let you know that I had some long talks with

[4:05:59] people that were for flock.

[4:06:02] And I invited every last one of them to come here.

[4:06:07] just wanted to put that out there that um thank you for

[4:06:09] those that did show up.

[4:06:12] Uh, and for the letters and the emails,

[4:06:14] and the emails,

[4:06:16] and the emails that I received on the subject.

[4:06:20] But I thank you that you you came and like, uh, Chris said,

[4:06:23] um, democracy and action here.

[4:06:27] Uh, with all that though, I'm going to say I was really

[4:06:29] excited about all the proclamations we had today.

[4:06:31] There are so many anniversaries, things happening in our city,

[4:06:34] things that we need to be proud of in our city,

[4:06:37] and congratulations to our beautification winners, uh,

[4:06:41] what a wonderful display of, um, beautiful yards and, um,

[4:06:47] there are so many that were nominated that didn't win,

[4:06:49] but they they were just as beautiful.

[4:06:52] So, congratulations to all of them.

[4:06:55] Um, I got my

[4:06:56] Um, our Shortober Fest is going to be October 3rd,

[4:07:01] same day as the police and fire and library open house.

[4:07:06] So when you're done with all the open house, go home,

[4:07:09] take a nap, and come back to the Shortober Fest.

[4:07:13] Okay, there's going to be live music, the Kabasa Kings

[4:07:15] from 6:00 to 10:00 p.m.

[4:07:18] We got beer sales which are locked St. Clair Shores, um,

[4:07:22] Kwans Group is taking care of for us.

[4:07:25] German food is available for purchase.

[4:07:27] We're going to have cranks catering in there, and they're

[4:07:29] going to have a great menu for you.

[4:07:31] We're going to have a Stein holding contest

[4:07:33] for men and women.

[4:07:34] Costume contest, and uh a cornhole tournament.

[4:07:38] So, you will not want to miss this.

[4:07:41] It's October 3rd, and it starts at 5:00 p.m.

[4:07:44] to 10:00 p.m.

[4:07:48] Uh, and uh, that's it for that.

[4:07:51] Uh, we just had our uh St. Isaac Jog's Harvest Festival

[4:07:53] this last weekend. It was phenomenal.

[4:07:56] even though we were raining a lot.

[4:07:59] We still had a great time and we thank you everybody for

[4:08:02] coming out and helping to uh help our school

[4:08:06] uh with needed funds.

[4:08:08] Uh, this Saturday is also district. Music's Main Street

[4:08:10] drive.

[4:08:13] Main Street drive, sorry.

[4:08:15] I have that down in here too.

[4:08:17] Uh, and then we only have two left.

[4:08:19] We have October 10th and Octo October 24th.

[4:08:22] October 10th is going to be bandwagon.

[4:08:24] October 24th is paper covers rock.

[4:08:27] And this Saturday, uh the next, I'm sorry, Sunday, this Sunday

[4:08:30] is our Farmers Market

[4:08:32] downtown uh St. Clair Shores right there from 9:00 to 2:00.

[4:08:37] And last time I went, I was like, wow, this really is a

[4:08:40] Farmers Market because there was actually a lot

[4:08:42] being sold of fruits and vegetables,

[4:08:46] and um, it was really great.

[4:08:48] Don't miss it. A lot of um, people have vendors there,

[4:08:50] so it'll be a lot of fun.

[4:08:52] And um, thank you for the cleanup mention

[4:08:55] because I had that down on here.

[4:08:57] Uh, that's my group and I Sharon's over there.

[4:09:01] Um, and uh, just want to thank everybody again for being here.

[4:09:03] That's it for me.

[4:09:05] Thank you. City manager report.

[4:09:06] Uh, as Ron had mentioned, we have the open house at the

[4:09:08] fire station, but that open house is actually

[4:09:11] three open houses as one.

[4:09:14] It is the fire station, it is the new police building,

[4:09:16] and it is the library.

[4:09:19] So we are also going to be have our smart buses run

[4:09:21] from the City Hall complex to take individuals to the

[4:09:24] fire station. There's not a lot of parking over there.

[4:09:27] But as Ron had said, they are going to have different kind

[4:09:29] of food and different kind of stuff set up.

[4:09:32] The police are not in the new police station yet,

[4:09:33] but it is going to be moving in very shortly,

[4:09:36] but before they get them move in and all the officers

[4:09:39] and then you actually have officers work,

[4:09:40] we are having that open house for all of our residents

[4:09:42] to be able to come in and see two magnificent buildings

[4:09:46] that will be here for generations to come.

[4:09:48] Um, and then also, as we had mentioned too with the library,

[4:09:51] we did get, you know, kind of delayed,

[4:09:53] but that's because that library building started off as a

[4:09:55] children's renovation, but ended up changing into an

[4:09:58] entire building renovation.

[4:10:01] So it is beautiful inside.

[4:10:03] So it is a huge asset to our community.

[4:10:06] So please come out and check out our three buildings uh,

[4:10:09] this sorry, October.

[4:10:12] for third on Saturday.

[4:10:13] Thank you.

[4:10:14] Uh, item 13. Audie's participation

[4:10:17] get five-minute time limit.

[4:10:18] Uh, we just need your name

[4:10:20] in the city you reside in

[4:10:21] and then if you don't mind, please sign up, sign in after that.

[4:10:26] Uh, okay.

[4:10:27] Uh, yes, sir.

[4:10:29] You know, I had a five minutes. I'm there with condition saying all shores.

[4:10:32] Thank you.

[4:10:32] I had a full five minutes for you guys.

[4:10:34] I mean, you guys are missing some good facts and figures here.

[4:10:36] [laughter]

[4:10:38] Um, I just want to say to all of you who took my calls last couple

[4:10:42] three, four weeks, my emails.

[4:10:44] I really felt listened to on this issue. Like I really did.

[4:10:47] Um, and it's a credit to you guys. I seriously really appreciate it.

[4:10:52] I like a month ago was like, you know, seeing all the flock stuff

[4:10:55] and seeing them everywhere in our city.

[4:10:57] And I just for me personally, like I have two little kids.

[4:11:01] I don't want them grown up in a city with mass surveillance.

[4:11:06] And I, you know, things getting done in cities is really hard,

[4:11:09] takes a long time.

[4:11:10] Um, but I just want to say to every person that showed up,

[4:11:13] like seriously, every person.

[4:11:14] And especially the first couple from some of our senior residents.

[4:11:17] We get the best seniors ever.

[4:11:18] who did just the most amazing job. Like I'm so proud all you.

[4:11:22] [applause]

[4:11:23] And uh, I won't belabor the point,

[4:11:25] I'm just so thankful today what you guys are doing.

[4:11:28] I just want to take a such a quick story.

[4:11:31] In my neighborhood, I live on Lakeland Street,

[4:11:33] like two years ago we had this girl who I was, me and my dad,

[4:11:36] we four houses down from each other, have senior residents who are in this city.

[4:11:40] We, we just we didn't know, but we were both watching this girl get ripped out

[4:11:44] of a car and helicopter to the floor. I mean, it was horrible.

[4:11:47] And me and my dad run after the guy.

[4:11:49] And then four other neighbors came out and ran after the guy.

[4:11:51] And then all the other neighbors came out and helped this girl.

[4:11:54] And that is why you don't need flock cameras in this city.

[4:11:58] We have people that care.

[4:11:59] We have the best seniors who are the best security for your neighborhoods

[4:12:02] you will ever get.

[4:12:03] Like they are watching, and thank God for our awesome seniors.

[4:12:06] Um, so I just want to say thank you so I just want to say thank you so much for doing this for, for putting a pause.

[4:12:10] I do want to say though that

[4:12:12] I hope the pause isn't a delay because we will be back in March.

[4:12:16] to finally put the nail in this coffin.

[4:12:18] for Flock

[4:12:21] Um, and I just, I'm so thankful today.

[4:12:23] It means a lot.

[4:12:24] I hope you guys all have an awesome night.

[4:12:25] And uh, I've seen, I've watched a lot of meetings.

[4:12:26] I watch like every meeting.

[4:12:28] Man, that's uh, this is might be a record.

[4:12:30] I don't know if it is.

[4:12:31] [Laughter] Oh, it's not.

[4:12:32] Oh, some of the budget meetings were long.

[4:12:34] The the budget meetings are painfully long,

[4:12:36] but um, still this was so worth it.

[4:12:38] Thank you everybody, I appreciate you guys.

[4:12:39] Sign in please.

[4:12:40] Oh, yeah.

[4:12:41] Oh, okay. I don't know.

[4:12:42] Thank you.

[4:12:43] [applause]

[4:12:45] Hello.

[4:12:47] Uh, my name is Kristen Schmidt. Uh, I live a resident here

[4:12:50] in St. Clair Shores.

[4:12:51] Yes.

[4:12:53] I do have a whole thing prepared here,

[4:12:55] and I waited it out, and I'm just going to do it for I guess for food for thought

[4:12:58] even though I do appreciate you guys pausing it for the next six months.

[4:13:02] So I guess just take these things into consideration please.

[4:13:06] Um, one, I was really frustrated that everybody just keeps calling it

[4:13:09] a license plate reader.

[4:13:11] Please stop describing Flock as just a license plate reader,

[4:13:14] that description is incomplete and it understates what is at stake.

[4:13:17] Flock's own documentation says its system collects not only

[4:13:20] license plate characters but vehicle images, vehicle characteristics,

[4:13:23] location data, time stamps and other metadata.

[4:13:27] Flock describes its platform as providing law enforcement with

[4:13:29] searchable digital evidence

[4:13:32] and investigative tools, that matters

[4:13:34] because the Constitution does not become irrelevant simply because

[4:13:37] surveillance technology becomes more sophisticated.

[4:13:40] The Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized this problem.

[4:13:43] In United States v. Jones, the Court considers government tracking of

[4:13:46] vehicle by GPS,

[4:13:47] the Court held that attaching the GPS devices and using it to monitor the

[4:13:51] vehicle's movements, constituted a Fourth Amendment search.

[4:13:56] Justice Alito, joined by three other justices, separately emphasized

[4:13:59] something particularly important for today's technology.

[4:14:02] Long-term monitoring can cross a constitutional line because

[4:14:06] society does not reasonably expect the government to secretly catalog

[4:14:10] every movement of a person's vehicle.

[4:14:13] Then came Carpenter v. United States.

[4:14:16] There the Supreme Court confronted a different technology,

[4:14:18] historical cell site location information.

[4:14:21] The government argued essentially that people had no reasonable expectation

[4:14:24] of privacy because the information was held by a third party.

[4:14:28] The Court rejected that reasoning.

[4:14:30] It recognized the person's physical movements can reveal an extraordinary

[4:14:34] amount about the person's life and held the individuals retain

[4:14:37] a legitimate expectation of privacy and certain records of their own

[4:14:40] physical movements.

[4:14:41] even when those records are held by someone else.

[4:14:44] The Court specifically warned that people do not surrender all Fourth Amendment

[4:14:48] protections simply by entering public spaces.

[4:14:50] That principle deserves serious consideration here.

[4:14:54] Uh, sorry, I'll skip some of the stuff because Candace, you mentioned

[4:14:58] quite a bit of it actually.

[4:15:00] Technology changes the nature of surveillance.

[4:15:02] A police officer observing a car drive past is one thing,

[4:15:04] a network of cameras creating a searchable records of vehicles

[4:15:08] moving throughout a community is something fundamentally different

[4:15:11] in scale and

[4:15:13] capability. And the Supreme Court has told us that scale matters.

[4:15:16] The court's concern in Jones and Carpenter was not simply

[4:15:20] whether one particular piece of information was visible to the public,

[4:15:24] the concern was what modern technology makes possible when

[4:15:27] individual observations are collected, retained, and

[4:15:30] assembled into a detailed record of someone's movements.

[4:15:34] That is why we shouldn't ask can a police officer legally see a license plate.

[4:15:38] Of course they can.

[4:15:39] We should ask what happens when thousands of observations are

[4:15:43] systematically collected, stored, searched, and shared.

[4:15:45] That is the Civil Liberties question.

[4:15:48] And this is not merely theoretical. Flock says customers control their data

[4:15:51] and that searches are auditable.

[4:15:53] Those safeguards are worth acknowledging, but safeguards

[4:15:55] are not the same thing as constitutional protections.

[4:15:58] And audit and and audit logs do not prevent government overreach.

[4:16:02] They merely create a record that overreach occurred.

[4:16:06] I believe residents deserve clear answers.

[4:16:07] Who can search this database?

[4:16:09] What constitutes a legitimate reason to conduct a search?

[4:16:13] Can officers search for someone's movements without that person

[4:16:15] being suspected of a crime?

[4:16:17] Which other agencies can access our community's data?

[4:16:20] Can information collected here be shared outside our jurisdiction?

[4:16:23] Who approves searches, who audits them?

[4:16:25] How often does the council receive those audit reports?

[4:16:29] And what happens when an officer violates the rules?

[4:16:32] These are not anti-police questions, they are constitutional questions.

[4:16:36] The Fourth Amendment was written precisely because the government has enormous power

[4:16:40] and because individual liberty requires boundaries on that power.

[4:16:44] When technology allows the government to collect, retain, reconstruct, and search

[4:16:49] people's movements on a scale that would have been extraordinarily

[4:16:51] difficult, excuse me, extraordinarily difficult or practically impossible in the past,

[4:16:56] constitutional protections deserve careful attention.

[4:16:59] Our city should not wait for a court to tell us where the

[4:17:02] Constitution boundary is.

[4:17:03] We should establish strong protections before the system becomes entrenched.

[4:17:08] If this council believes Flock is necessary for public safety, then

[4:17:11] prove that necessity transparently.

[4:17:14] Because once a government builds the capability to track movements retrospectively,

[4:17:17] the question isn't simply what the system is being used for today.

[4:17:21] The question is what future government officials will be capable of using it for tomorrow.

[4:17:26] Civil liberties are rarely taken away all at once.

[4:17:29] They are more often diminished one seemingly reasonable expectation,

[4:17:32] one new database, one additional capability, and one expanded

[4:17:35] use at a time.

[4:17:38] The Constitution is supposed to prevent that.

[4:17:40] So please don't tell the residents of this city that Flock is just

[4:17:43] a license plate reader.

[4:17:44] It is a surveillance system capable of creating searchable records

[4:17:48] about the movement of vehicles throughout our community.

[4:17:50] That deserves the highest level of public scrutiny, transparency, and

[4:17:53] constitutional restraint.

[4:17:55] Thank you. Thank you.

[4:17:57] [applause]

[4:18:03] [exhaling]

[4:18:05] I got a whole preparation speech too, just like everybody else.

[4:18:08] Uh, first thing I want to do is I want to do is I want to thank the council for listening.

[4:18:11] your your name and the city you reside in. Dan Far.

[4:18:15] St. Clair Shores resident. Thank you.

[4:18:18] I want to thank you all for listening.

[4:18:20] Through this process, um, it's been an evolution for me too.

[4:18:25] Uh, I came at it first because of my friend Daryl.

[4:18:29] And I think this city owes him a round of applause for getting us

[4:18:33] all involved and looking at this.

[4:18:34] [applause]

[4:18:36] I want to thank, I want to thank everybody on this council for listening.

[4:18:39] I think you guys have done a good job.

[4:18:41] You listened to what we said and you took it to heart.

[4:18:46] And that was something I wasn't prepared to do today.

[4:18:50] I had a defense here, I had a defense here of of the chief himself.

[4:18:53] I had a defense here that was going to blast Flock out of the water for

[4:18:56] putting him in a bad situation, just like you guys said.

[4:19:00] He's got to be responsible for other agencies and other cops.

[4:19:03] That's not fair to him either.

[4:19:05] He could do it right and we can still all be burned by it.

[4:19:08] And that's one of the things we got to remember about this system.

[4:19:11] is that the nature of it is out of our control.

[4:19:16] Even the mayor of East Point and and this is what he said.

[4:19:19] I know that our police chief has worked hard to put policies in

[4:19:23] place for our personnel.

[4:19:24] But the nature of Flock is that it's part of a network where information is shared

[4:19:29] with other law enforcement agencies and frankly, we don't have control

[4:19:33] over what other agencies are doing and how they're enforcing their rules.

[4:19:39] We can do it right. We can do it pristine, and we probably are.

[4:19:42] And nobody's shown we haven't.

[4:19:45] But we can't control that other agency.

[4:19:48] We can't control that LinkedIn trusted agency.

[4:19:52] And that's one of the problems.

[4:19:54] One of the other things I just wanted to mention was,

[4:19:58] Miss Burch has said about, and I'm sorry for speaking out.

[4:20:01] That's that's an Alexander trait. People know what I mean.

[4:20:04] Uh, we we we we we debated in the streets, we didn't follow Rogers' rules.

[4:20:13] We have to be involved in those that information that's shared.

[4:20:16] That information you guys get from Flock.

[4:20:19] We need to know whether it's a committee,

[4:20:21] whether it's some way that we have to be informed.

[4:20:25] It we can't be next year we find out

[4:20:27] at a meeting and an agenda pack it a week before.

[4:20:30] What what what they're going to say.

[4:20:32] That's not fair to us.

[4:20:34] We have to know, and we have to be involved because these people care,

[4:20:37] and a lot more of them care. A lot of them had to leave.

[4:20:41] And I just want to make sure that we understand that part of it.

[4:20:47] I looked at that I I looked at this issue and I said,

[4:20:51] am I pro or anti? And and Daryl and I debated this

[4:20:55] more times than you guys want to know.

[4:20:58] And I was bouncing back and forth,

[4:21:02] until I looked at, really looked at it and lifted up the hood

[4:21:05] like you guys did today, and some of you expressed it.

[4:21:08] It doesn't pass, it doesn't pass the test it has to.

[4:21:12] Could it?

[4:21:13] I don't know. Maybe we'll find out.

[4:21:15] But I just want to do um give uh uh recognition

[4:21:19] where recognition is to you guys.

[4:21:22] for listening to us. It it it did a lot to restore some faith

[4:21:26] in people like myself, who had a lot of guilt of not

[4:21:29] participating. Thank you.

[4:21:30] [applause]

[4:21:38] I'm just going to read it as they wrote it.

[4:21:42] Despite how ALPRs have been marketed,

[4:21:44] Ma'am, your name in the city you reside in. I'm sorry, just

[4:21:48] Lisa Oxford St. Clair Shores.

[4:21:50] Despite how ALPRs have been marketed,

[4:21:53] this latest abandonment of our liberty is not actually

[4:21:56] for the sake of security.

[4:21:58] The purpose of a system is what it does.

[4:22:01] In actuality, these Valian tech companies are crippling our

[4:22:06] fourth amendment so that they may add even more mass surveillance

[4:22:09] to their ever growing arsenal of marketing tools.

[4:22:12] [laughter]

[4:22:14] Less than 0.05% of all data collected by ALPRs

[4:22:17] is relevant to criminal cases.

[4:22:21] Just as we learned during the PowerPoint.

[4:22:24] Most of the data is not accessed by the police.

[4:22:28] And most of the data relevant to law enforcement, on the

[4:22:31] whole, is in relation to unpaid parking tickets.

[4:22:36] The majority of data being harvested is for commercial value.

[4:22:40] The private investigators and repo men are some of the

[4:22:43] obvious entities ALPR data can be sold to.

[4:22:46] And if you think a contract

[4:22:48] between the city and any of these companies will protect

[4:22:50] your data from being sold in a country where

[4:22:52] we punish big tech companies with a slap on the wrist,

[4:22:54] God help you.

[4:22:58] In the modern industry of data analytics,

[4:23:01] companies can create very strong customer profiles

[4:23:04] with the addition of ALPR data.

[4:23:06] Perhaps your auto insurance company will be interested

[4:23:08] to know that the car that you have in your name and

[4:23:11] under your address

[4:23:12] is your son's daily driver.

[4:23:14] Of course, you have him on the insurance too, but it just so

[4:23:17] happens that he's recently moved in with his girlfriend

[4:23:19] and now lives in a town with a much higher accident rate.

[4:23:25] By the way, did you recently attend a gun show?

[4:23:28] Maybe one with a portable ALPR in the parking lot?

[4:23:31] If only I had time to get into that one.

[4:23:34] I'd also love to talk about how Flock CEO was on CNN

[4:23:37] going on about how evil police officers are

[4:23:41] giving his sweet, innocent surveillance system a bad name.

[4:23:46] And how his ALPRs are going to solve all crime forever.

[4:23:51] It certainly isn't the first time an ALPR company has marketed itself

[4:23:54] by stoking public distrust of the police. Axon?

[4:24:00] But I need to wrap this up.

[4:24:01] The true purpose of all ALPR systems

[4:24:05] is to cast a mass dragnet over the population in search

[4:24:07] of data it can sell.

[4:24:11] In Texas, police install car card readers into their

[4:24:14] patrol vehicles.

[4:24:16] And if they got a hit on their ALPRs for somebody with an

[4:24:19] unpaid parking ticket,

[4:24:21] that OD is criminal was offered the chance to pay his parking

[4:24:24] ticket on the spot or go to jail.

[4:24:27] There was a 25% fee tacked on top of

[4:24:31] of the ticket.

[4:24:34] And that fine or that 25% went directly to the ALPR

[4:24:37] company Vigilant.

[4:24:41] Also, that company got to keep all data perceived to have

[4:24:45] commercial value without any limit on how long

[4:24:46] it can be retained.

[4:24:49] The purpose of a system is what it does.

[4:24:53] And to our officers, don't trust these companies.

[4:24:56] To these CEOs, your one human life only has value in so

[4:24:59] far as they can expend it

[4:25:03] in the pursuit and protection of their hoarded wealth and power.

[4:25:08] Thank you. Thank you.

[4:25:09] [applause]

[4:25:15] Okay, make sure everyone signs in, please. It's just part of the requirement.

[4:25:18] I know, just really, thank you. Go.

[4:25:19] Chris Stuart, St. St. Clair Shores resident.

[4:25:21] Uh, I don't have anything prepared, honestly.

[4:25:24] Um, I really honestly just came up here.

[4:25:26] Mostly wanted to say thank you.

[4:25:27] I know everyone's already tired.

[4:25:29] Uh, this was phenomenal.

[4:25:32] I was here actually when you guys, uh,

[4:25:34] originally passed this a year ago.

[4:25:37] Uh, and I remember it just like kind of slipped through

[4:25:39] as like this small thing and it sounded like

[4:25:40] it was a good thing, but the more I've learned

[4:25:42] over over the last year, just like you guys,

[4:25:45] I've had my eyes very wide open.

[4:25:49] Um,

[4:25:50] [gavel thumps]

[4:25:51] I'll say this, I feel like Flock

[4:25:53] turns law enforcement on its head.

[4:25:56] It feels like we are now required to

[4:26:00] it's guilty until proven innocent.

[4:26:03] Um, there have been people who have been

[4:26:06] targeted, uh,

[4:26:07] that have had to prove that the license plate reader actually

[4:26:12] read the wrong information and that was

[4:26:14] just simply someone that simply looked

[4:26:16] like her that happened to drive the same

[4:26:18] type of truck. But she hap happened to have her own video

[4:26:20] recording of that day.

[4:26:25] And was able to prove in court and

[4:26:27] prove her innocence, but it flips

[4:26:30] the script. This isn't how we should behave.

[4:26:32] She just happened to have the resources

[4:26:34] to be able to defend herself, but that's not great.

[4:26:38] Um, I also wanted to correct a little bit

[4:26:40] of record here. Uh, when you mentioned 32,

[4:26:43] that might be what the what the county

[4:26:45] owns specifically, but you can go to D-Flock.

[4:26:48] And it shows accurately where the 12 cameras

[4:26:50] are here in St. Clair Shores. There are

[4:26:52] 770 roughly in in Macomb,

[4:26:55] from what I can tell. There are over 1800

[4:26:58] here in Southeast Michigan, these cameras.

[4:27:02] If you look nationwide, it's 142,000.

[4:27:05] These are numbers that I literally just looked up

[4:27:06] while I was in my chair here.

[4:27:08] So it's very easy to find all these cameras.

[4:27:12] This is massive surveillance, massive

[4:27:15] surveillance on a scale that we've never

[4:27:16] seen before.

[4:27:18] The technology that exists is incredibly powerful.

[4:27:23] These companies are aggregating this information.

[4:27:26] And yes, our law enforcement officers may be using

[4:27:28] this information broadly correctly,

[4:27:31] but that doesn't necessarily mean that they

[4:27:33] are using this information correctly.

[4:27:35] And how many of you have had? I I've had

[4:27:37] at least a dozen, uh,

[4:27:42] mailers from companies who've had their

[4:27:44] data breached. I've had my medical

[4:27:46] information, social security, everything

[4:27:49] about me has been exposed in these last

[4:27:51] couple of years. AT&T, my and uh

[4:27:54] health insurance company. Uh, I've had

[4:27:57] my um, like medical offices, uh,

[4:28:01] all of my information's been exposed.

[4:28:03] I don't trust another company

[4:28:06] to have this much information

[4:28:08] all in one place.

[4:28:09] It it's bad enough for a government

[4:28:11] to have this kind of level.

[4:28:14] If we had a statewide database, it'd be one thing,

[4:28:16] but we're talking about a national

[4:28:18] private company who has a notoriously

[4:28:21] weak security system.

[4:28:23] That's reckless and irresponsible.

[4:28:25] And I I don't think we should be a part

[4:28:27] of that system. We're only talking about

[4:28:28] 12 cameras in this city.

[4:28:31] We have a long, long fight to get rid of

[4:28:34] 142,000 cameras nationwide.

[4:28:39] It's shocking.

[4:28:41] Thank you.

[4:28:42] [applause]

[4:28:47] Good evening.

[4:28:48] My name is Richard Shafer.

[4:28:50] You know, I came here tonight to uh, introduce myself.

[4:28:53] I'm running for trustee of Macomb Community College.

[4:28:56] what city what city did you reside in, sir?

[4:28:57] I'm sorry. Clinton Township.

[4:28:59] Thank you. County of Macomb.

[4:29:01] Um,

[4:29:03] You know, four hours ago, I thought about bailing, right?

[4:29:06] I'll be honest with you.

[4:29:07] And and hear me out, right?

[4:29:10] But listening to all of you, right, civil

[4:29:12] activity, civil involvement

[4:29:14] is the core, is the essence of this country.

[4:29:18] So you all do deserve a round of applause

[4:29:22] for coming out and speaking and having

[4:29:24] an effect on your community. So I applaud you all.

[4:29:27] [applause]

[4:29:29] Also to the board, out of respect for you,

[4:29:32] I did not leave because you you know,

[4:29:34] we asked you for your time, right?

[4:29:35] And and I give you I really do appreciate

[4:29:37] you giving me the opportunity to introduce myself.

[4:29:40] Um, I am a former veteran.

[4:29:41] I use my GI bill to go to Macomb Community College.

[4:29:45] Um, I transferred to Baker after that.

[4:29:47] Last year I graduated from Macomb Community College

[4:29:49] as a as a public chaplain.

[4:29:52] So Macomb Community College is near

[4:29:53] and dear to my heart, okay?

[4:29:55] And you know, the question I get is why?

[4:29:57] Why do you want to be a trustee at Macomb Community College?

[4:30:01] The the board that's there doing a great job.

[4:30:04] But if you listen to the politicians right now,

[4:30:05] everybody's talking about putting shop class

[4:30:08] back in to high school, right? Back into public schools.

[4:30:12] And I still have the candlestick that I made in shop class.

[4:30:17] I still have the lazy Susan I made. So shop class in high school is important.

[4:30:20] But what we need is a community college

[4:30:23] that aligns themselves with the

[4:30:24] building trades and creates these jobs.

[4:30:28] There's a 300,000 electrician

[4:30:31] shortage over the next 10,000

[4:30:33] year or 10, 10,000 years, 10 years.

[4:30:36] God forbid we're all here 10,000 years from now.

[4:30:39] [laughter]

[4:30:41] Um,

[4:30:42] So, with my experience in the building

[4:30:45] trades and my ability to communicate,

[4:30:48] I believe that I can get some dialogue

[4:30:50] going between the community college

[4:30:52] and the building trades.

[4:30:54] And we can create these jobs.

[4:30:55] And a union electrician right now,

[4:30:57] love or hate the union, they're

[4:30:58] making $57 an hour

[4:31:00] plus 42% benefits.

[4:31:03] If we could bring some of that to the

[4:31:05] community college and create some jobs

[4:31:07] like that, think what we could do

[4:31:09] for this community.

[4:31:10] Right?

[4:31:11] Um,

[4:31:12] So, again, my name is Richard Shafer.

[4:31:15] I'm running for Macomb County trusty,

[4:31:16] if you would vote for me, I'd greatly appreciate it and thank you for your time.

[4:31:20] Thank you.

[4:31:21] [applause]

[4:31:25] Hello?

[4:31:26] The mayor kinda screwed what I was gonna do for my speech.

[4:31:30] And God bless you, sir.

[4:31:32] If you guys, uh, Mayor Walby, is it?

[4:31:35] If you guys don't re-elect him

[4:31:37] and if he's not up for re-election

[4:31:39] and you don't make him run for like

[4:31:41] council or not council but like

[4:31:42] state representative Congress, something, that's all your fault.

[4:31:45] I've been all over the state fighting

[4:31:47] this and most of the time, you'll have

[4:31:49] a room full of people and the tyrant

[4:31:51] board will do their tyrant ways.

[4:31:53] This one did not.

[4:31:55] [applause] Everybody up here! Bravo!

[4:31:58] And that don't come lightly for me.

[4:32:00] And I am gonna say my name and I'm

[4:32:02] not from here. I'm from uh Mount Morris.

[4:32:03] Normally I don't do that.

[4:32:05] Normally my name's Jason We the

[4:32:06] People and I'm from 1776 Boulevard.

[4:32:09] And if you want to get us started,

[4:32:11] 42 USC 1983's straight

[4:32:12] qualified immunity.

[4:32:14] But because of your mayor, I'll tell you everything.

[4:32:17] Thank God for him.

[4:32:18] You guys, I'm telling you, I can't say it enough. I can't say it enough.

[4:32:21] He said bag 'em, are you kidding me?

[4:32:23] It's amazing. Anyhow, let's get into

[4:32:25] this right here, since we're on

[4:32:26] Constitution week here.

[4:32:28] I want to talk about the Declaration of Independence.

[4:32:31] It says right here into the second paragraph here,

[4:32:34] We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.

[4:32:38] that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.

[4:32:42] Our rights come from God, not the Constitution. It's just outlined in there.

[4:32:45] That among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[4:32:50] And to secure those rights, governments are instituted among men.

[4:32:54] What just happened tonight was the government securing our rights.

[4:32:58] Bravo again!

[4:33:01] and deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

[4:33:05] I would totally give consent to be governed by that gentleman.

[4:33:08] No, and that don't come lightly for me.

[4:33:10] Go look at my videos, I'm telling you.

[4:33:12] You literally, normally it's shit show on steroids up here.

[4:33:16] Oh! And um, oh, that's first

[4:33:17] amendment protected activity

[4:33:19] Cohen B California 1971, War Jacket

[4:33:20] into the Supreme Court, it said F the

[4:33:22] draft, and I said F to be nice because

[4:33:24] of your mayor, and the Supreme Court

[4:33:26] upheld his right to do it. Next.

[4:33:28] That whenever any form of government

[4:33:32] becomes destructive of these ends,

[4:33:34] it is the right of the people to

[4:33:37] alter or abolish it. And to institute

[4:33:39] a new government laying its foundations

[4:33:42] on such principles, and organizing its

[4:33:44] powers in such form, as to them shall

[4:33:47] seem most likely to their effect for

[4:33:50] safety and happiness.

[4:33:53] We can stop there. It's a go,

[4:33:55] you know, the Declaration of

[4:33:56] The point is, is the right of the

[4:33:58] people to abolish a corrupt government,

[4:34:00] like a government that thinks you don't

[4:34:02] have a freedom of speech at the podium.

[4:34:03] You know? But these flock cameras, man,

[4:34:05] they are, first off, when she the

[4:34:07] lady earlier was hitting on Peter Teal.

[4:34:09] He's a frequent Epstein flyer.

[4:34:12] You want to see some real

[4:34:13] troubling stuff, Mayor?

[4:34:14] Look at the ones pointed at playgrounds.

[4:34:16] That'll really infuriate you and

[4:34:18] they're all over and people are

[4:34:19] putting videos all over social media.

[4:34:21] Go right on TikTok, YouTube,

[4:34:22] Facebook, type it in, flock

[4:34:24] playground, and you'll get it.

[4:34:26] all over the states they're doing that.

[4:34:28] I thought they only read license plates.

[4:34:30] Seems to be a lie there.

[4:34:31] Next. Talking about our uh chief

[4:34:33] over here and our police force.

[4:34:36] One of the end goals of flock is to replace 70 to 80% of officers.

[4:34:41] Have them unemployed.

[4:34:43] They're literally just going to be

[4:34:45] going to go pick up people for

[4:34:46] parking tickets or whatever these

[4:34:48] stupid cameras, you know, flag.

[4:34:50] And what do you need investigative

[4:34:52] officers for? What do you need any

[4:34:54] of that stuff for?

[4:34:55] You know? You don't. It's ridiculous.

[4:34:56] These things are a complete abomination of this Constitution.

[4:35:01] Like I read to you earlier.

[4:35:03] I know it's getting late and again,

[4:35:04] God bless your mayor and you people

[4:35:06] better rally behind him and stay behind him.

[4:35:09] And I ain't never said that in my life,

[4:35:10] and I'm actually gonna sign in for you too.

[4:35:12] [applause]

[4:35:19] Uh, hello, my name is Miranda Panowski.

[4:35:20] I am a St. Clair Shores resident,

[4:35:22] and this is actually pretty personal

[4:35:24] to me because where I live, I live on

[4:35:26] St. Margaret's Street in between uh, 13 and Masonic.

[4:35:28] There's a flat camera right on the turnaround, right on the uh, where St. Clair Shores and Roseville meet.

[4:35:34] Uh, I used to work at Walgreens, Masonic and Harbor.

[4:35:36] Every day, I would drive past that

[4:35:38] camera because it's it catches my uh vehicle as I turn.

[4:35:42] And every day I'd drive back home and do the turn around, catch me on the way home.

[4:35:46] So, as I was paying listening to what the chief said, and I respect what they do, and I appreciate our police department, but

[4:35:52] it really isn't just if you come and exit the city?

[4:35:56] I get I got hit by it every single day.

[4:35:59] And I just appreciate all of you up here

[4:36:02] actually doing this, and actually

[4:36:04] like committing to uh bagging these and putting more time into it.

[4:36:08] Also, dead on.

[4:36:10] I have Mr. Wabi, I don't think you've ever run a post in my lifetime.

[4:36:14] until what he was saying.

[4:36:16] I I just want to add to that because I'm like, you know what? You're been a good mayor the whole time I've been here.

[4:36:20] I've been here since 2011, Lake View alumni.

[4:36:24] I had no issues with this council the entire time I've been here.

[4:36:28] I was in the scouts, I went to City Council meetings all the time

[4:36:31] when I was younger because, you know, you had to

[4:36:33] for certain merit badges.

[4:36:36] And uh I appreciate how well there are some lapses in judgment,

[4:36:42] judgment as time goes on.

[4:36:44] We're back on the right track currently.

[4:36:46] And that's really all I had to say. I just want to say thank you for actually deciding to take the time.

[4:36:52] [applause]

[4:36:57] Hi, I'm Karen Costley,

[4:36:59] and I'm a St. Clair Shores resident.

[4:37:02] Um, I want to say thank you for listening.

[4:37:07] Because that meant so much

[4:37:09] that you all would take the time to actually listen

[4:37:14] to the people of your city.

[4:37:19] Thank you.

[4:37:21] The other thing I want to say is

[4:37:23] and this is probably more of a

[4:37:26] school board issue, than your issue,

[4:37:31] but I wanted you to be aware, I don't

[4:37:34] know if you are aware, of this situation that has happened,

[4:37:37] but it's become national news, St. Clair Shores,

[4:37:43] for a gym teacher

[4:37:46] that is requiring

[4:37:49] the the girls in the class

[4:37:53] to give them, um, their period,

[4:37:57] their ministration schedules

[4:37:59] and how long their ministration

[4:38:03] period is.

[4:38:07] It's you we've made national news.

[4:38:11] Talk about privacy, we're here because we want our privacy.

[4:38:17] This is a really horrific thing for us to make national news.

[4:38:22] I'm like, I'm so embarrassed.

[4:38:25] that we would be

[4:38:29] be for for this?

[4:38:33] This shows how

[4:38:37] our rights, our freedoms.

[4:38:40] They're so precious.

[4:38:44] we have to fight for them.

[4:38:47] And thank you for listening, and like I said, I know this is probably

[4:38:51] more of a school board issue.

[4:38:54] It is. But you needed to know.

[4:38:56] I didn't know if you know, but it's national news and it's embarrassing.

[4:39:01] [applause]

[4:39:07] Hello, good evening.

[4:39:08] Good evening.

[4:39:09] Timothy Venvechten, uh St. Clair Shores.

[4:39:11] just thank you again. Appreciate you guys listening to us.

[4:39:15] not going to really get into a ton of details with what I had planned, but

[4:39:19] what Councilman Vitali touched on was the kind of in response to the success stories.

[4:39:24] There are just horror story after horror story regarding the either the

[4:39:28] misappropriation or the inaccuracies of Flock.

[4:39:32] And one one detail I found out recently that was wildly incredible.

[4:39:38] Atlanta, Georgia has 5,000 flock cameras, which they put up.

[4:39:42] They those collection of cameras take 20 billion with a B photos per month.

[4:39:49] Um, Young Lady earlier mentioned, uh, I think Flock's estimation of their accuracy was 96%.

[4:39:56] Even if you account or even if you assign them 99% accuracy,

[4:40:00] that's still 200 million mistakes per month that those cameras collect.

[4:40:05] So, just some food for thought. We appreciate you putting the bags up.

[4:40:09] That's step one, obviously next step is hopefully they come.

[4:40:12] Appreciate it.

[4:40:13] Thank you.

[4:40:14] [applause]

[4:40:18] Hi, I'm Rosemary Ashley, St. Clair Shores resident for decades and decades.

[4:40:23] Thank you for listening to the people and even more, thank you to the people

[4:40:29] from our city and outside our city from coming in here

[4:40:32] and uh working with our council.

[4:40:35] Thank you.

[4:40:36] [applause]

[4:40:43] Sorry.

[4:40:44] [laughter] No, we have another.

[4:40:52] Hi, I, um, my name is Jonathan Mansinger, St. Clair Shores resident.

[4:40:56] Just like everyone else, I just want to thank you. Really appreciate you guys putting the bags up.

[4:41:01] Um, one of the questions that wasn't asked was when the bags would go up?

[4:41:07] And I don't know if I can get a response from you guys now or

[4:41:10] Uh, I, I, tomorrow, tomorrow.

[4:41:12] Yeah.

[4:41:13] Sweet.

[4:41:14] Okay.

[4:41:15] We'll, we obviously get the DBW, but it'll be up by tomorrow and done by

[4:41:19] tomorrow afternoon.

[4:41:20] Okay.

[4:41:21] Cool.

[4:41:22] Yeah.

[4:41:23] And uh, I had a question for Councilwoman Burgess.

[4:41:27] you just, you just have to give him to give him to the direct him to the chair, which is me.

[4:41:31] And but we, we don't usually interact.

[4:41:33] So we just, you you send it, you know.

[4:41:35] Um, I, it was uh in relation to the 10 mile and 94 cleanup.

[4:41:40] Um, just wondering if I can bring uh my 13-year-old son.

[4:41:44] Yes.

[4:41:45] Okay.

[4:41:46] Cool.

[4:41:47] Well, thank you guys.

[4:41:48] There you go.

[4:41:49] Thank you.

[4:41:51] There you go, right, perfect.

[4:41:54] Anyone else at 11:35?

[4:41:56] [laughter]

[4:41:58] We have to vote her now?

[4:41:59] [laughter] No, no. Still no. No.

[4:42:02] No, but it's, it's long.

[4:42:03] Can't about the half, half.

[4:42:05] we have mayor's comments. We're not going to have any so

[4:42:08] Move to adjourn. We will now move forward with return by Mr. Karen supported

[4:42:10] by Mr. Frederick for Joan. All in favor.

[4:42:14] Aye.

[4:42:15] All opposed.

[4:42:16] Good night.

City Council Meeting - Sep. 21, 2026

Transcript