[2:51] yes ma'am thank you

[2:54] we're calling the st louis county council uh committee of the hole to

[2:57] order october 5 2021 it is now 1pm we are to discuss the appointment

[3:03] including personnel matters of dr faisal khan as director of department of public

[3:09] health please call the romance clerk

[3:12] council member days here council member dunaway

[3:16] council member fitch here council member webb

[3:20] council member clancy here

[3:23] council member tracus frozen councilmember harding president

[3:27] madam chair you have a quorum thank you very much as i mentioned the purpose

[3:31] before uh i don't really have any um any

[3:34] introductory remarks right now uh any comments from the

[3:38] council before i move to go into executive session

[3:43] no comments all right uh i would i i can get a motion to go into executive

[3:48] session please oh moved uh pursuant to rsmo

[3:54] 610.021 for n1 for n3 and paren 13 and four point zero two zero corinne one

[4:01] three and thirteen st louis county revised ordinances uh is there a second

[4:06] to that motion all in favor please say aye

[4:10] aye those opposed no madam chair we need a roll call i'm

[4:14] sorry i'm sorry i forgot roll call please on the motion to go in a closed

[4:18] session council member days aye councilmember dunaway

[4:22] council member fitch hi councilmember webb council member clancy

[4:27] hi hi

[4:30] i'm sorry madam chair the record will reflect that council member webb has

[4:33] joined the meeting and voted i council member trachus hi

[4:38] councilmember harder hi madam chair on the motion to go into

[4:42] closed session there are six eyes and one absent thank you very much motion

[4:46] passes uh kevin would you make the necessary preparations and those who are

[4:50] uh not part of this uh or escort it out thank you

[4:55] uh kevin are we to remain on this link or is there a different link

[5:01] yes ma'am you can stay on that link we're gonna switch over to the

[5:04] recordings so it'll be just a minute here

[5:24] everything

[7:09] so

[7:39] members of the public the council will be returning to open session here in

[7:43] just a moment thank you

[8:49] members of the public the chair is taking her seat and the open session

[8:54] in just a moment you're good

[9:03] man i'm sure

[9:06] sorry there you go we have returned to the open session uh are there any other

[9:11] comments from the council members yes madam chair

[9:14] yes councilwoman clancy

[9:18] yes um i would like to enter into the record a

[9:21] letter that we each received along with the county executive from the st louis

[9:25] county human relations commission on august 13

[9:29] 2021. in that letter

[9:32] they wrote to us um

[9:36] a couple of things but one there were a couple comments i wanted to highlight

[9:41] they were speaking about the the now infamous july 27th meeting and they

[9:45] write we were collectively horrified at the nasty words of so many residents who

[9:49] spoke then during public comments and disappointed that those who offered

[9:53] misinformation in venom this week were not challenged it must have been

[9:57] difficult for you to hear as well in this letter they also make a few

[10:00] recommendations as the human relations commission

[10:05] via ordinance they um are empowered to act in an advisory capacity to foster

[10:10] mutual self-respect and to further amicable relations among the various

[10:14] segments of the population which together compromise the county and one

[10:18] of their recommendations and advisory activities that they have said are that

[10:24] they ask the council to firmly consider committing time and

[10:27] reconciliation and solidarity building activities as soon as possible between

[10:31] the county council members and the executive branch and they've offered

[10:35] technical assistance and training to this end in conjunction with with the

[10:38] county's office of diversity equity and inclusion and as such i think that we as

[10:43] a council need to take their recommendations and observations

[10:46] seriously and i would like to make a motion that we take them up on their

[10:49] offer to engage in solidarity building activities

[10:53] and reconciliation building activities i.e training with them

[10:58] to better understand our role with

[11:00] furthering diversity equity and inclusion in st louis county

[11:05] there's a motion is there a second

[11:09] say a second motion dies for lack of a second wait i

[11:14] think that um let me just say this uh councilwoman clancy and this is

[11:18] something that uh i had brought before um and i'm sorry before this body but uh

[11:24] but i did ask and this was on the state level for the human relation of human

[11:28] rights commission to come in there was a cost associated with that and at the

[11:32] time it was determined that we could not afford that but i had i had already made

[11:37] um forays into doing exactly what you're talking about now now perhaps this one

[11:41] is different because it does not um not oh okay i want to get my double meal

[11:46] like ma'am can you hear me councilwoman webb

[11:51] she's muted now okay thank you um so i have uh and i did

[11:56] that long before this incident happened um

[11:59] with dr khan and again perhaps with the um um with the no cost uh with uh

[12:05] whoever this is that you're talking about maybe we can make that happen but

[12:09] i want you to know that that was not lost on me and it did not take this

[12:12] particular uh incident to to let me know that we needed some uh some assistance

[12:17] in that area so i do appreciate that so we'll look into that either

[12:22] anyway the emotion failed but i think that there are some ways that we can

[12:25] perhaps uh work with the council members on other ways

[12:28] so thank you thank you

[12:31] and and i will add i will forward this letter so that it is entered into the

[12:34] record to share the perspective of our human relations commission on this

[12:37] matter thank you thank you and uh also um

[12:43] i want to know that did all the council members receive anything from dr khan

[12:48] yes i saw an email that he sent to you madam chair and it was to be copied it

[12:52] was to be sent to every member i requested that i ask him to do that as a

[12:57] minimum of what he should be doing so thank you so much councilman fitch

[13:01] thank you madam chair um since we voted the body voted and closed a session it

[13:06] becomes a public record this is something we want to share councilman

[13:09] trachus's motion uh that passed at this point so the

[13:12] public knows what we voted on

[13:16] sure is that appropriate at this particular time you want to do you want

[13:21] to remake your motion i would like to make sure the county councilor confirms

[13:24] that it's um appropriate to do so i have no problem

[13:28] if they confirm that

[13:33] one moment

[14:20] i do believe that the county executive made reference to a report that was made

[14:25] and did and did i miss that or am i misc am i confusing that with something else

[14:29] so if he did indicate that there was a um

[14:32] a report made um maybe we can uh that'll help them the lawyers over there

[14:41] yeah i believe there was a report made in a reprimand given so there was there

[14:45] was talk in public it was it was discussed in a public public meeting

[14:48] public forum

[14:53] madam chair yes councilwoman webb i'm sorry i'm

[14:57] muting on too too many mutes but i just want a clarification and i know i missed

[15:02] my opportunity but i wanted clarification from councilwoman clancy

[15:06] was that going to be training diversity training specifically

[15:11] for council members of all all of the st louis

[15:15] uh county government um

[15:19] if i'm allowed to answer madam chair councilwoman clancy yes um the letter

[15:25] was directed to the county executive and the county council

[15:29] um so i think well to the county executive chairwoman days and council

[15:34] members so i think um what they were envisioning could be inclusive of

[15:37] everyone who the letter was directed to i think that there's a bigger picture

[15:41] thing that they're suggesting here that there's a lot of conflict internal

[15:44] conflict between the council and the county executive one of the ways that

[15:48] manifest was what we saw at the july 27 meeting and the ensuing events after

[15:53] that meeting and so i think i think that maybe they're envisioning something

[15:56] that's inclusive of a lot of different people

[16:03] thank you councilwoman clancy and madam chair

[16:07] uh yes as you said that there you're as a council we're not

[16:13] ignoring that recommendation but there are going to be some things in the work

[16:17] correct i i believe that we do have a department

[16:20] i'm not sure what they're doing diversity equity inclusion as

[16:24] councilwoman clancy mentioned i'm not sure what uh you know what they have

[16:28] done or plan to do in terms of the entire county uh looking at that

[16:33] situation i think that's sorely needed for all of us uh but again i that i

[16:38] don't supervise that person i'm not sure who does and i don't know what the plans

[16:42] are for that department but i think that clearly that's something that if we're

[16:45] interested in for the county

[16:48] as a whole or for the council uh at minimum that that is something

[16:52] that i think is clearly doable and i think that we need to reach out to that

[16:56] person and see if that's if that's um if that's allowable yes

[17:00] if they even have the capacity to do that i don't know i don't know what they

[17:03] do i'm sorry i just don't know councilwoman clancy

[17:07] yes um if that's the case then can i revise my motion to make a motion to

[17:11] actually turn this into an action that we follow up on i'd like to make a

[17:14] motion then that we reach out to chairwoman aristi of the human relations

[17:19] commission and mr murdock who is the officer of diversity equity and

[17:23] inclusion to have a conversation with them about what this kind of training

[17:26] might look like so you want that for the council to do

[17:30] that yes i would like to make that that's your motion is there a second to

[17:34] that motion second all in favor please say i

[17:39] i i

[17:44] i post no

[17:47] motion passes thank you thank you we're waiting for our attorneys

[17:52] yes i'm sorry thank you madam chair there's no default requirement that this

[17:57] vote in closed session be made open there is a requirement that any final

[18:00] decision about hiring firing promoting or disciplining be made public within 72

[18:05] hours but there's not i'm not understanding you

[18:08] yeah can you take that down just for a minute so we can hear you understand you

[18:11] rather there's not a requirement a default requirement that the closed

[18:14] session vote be made public if it were a final decision under subsection 3 of

[18:20] 61021 that would need to be made public within 72 hours but there's not a

[18:24] requirement that this boat be made public

[18:27] so can he make the motion or not in open session

[18:37] i guess the real issue is is there a prohibition to stating what the vote the

[18:42] motion was and the vote or not

[18:49] sorry madam chair something that occurred in closed session should remain

[18:52] closed and confidential so the answer is no all right thank you

[18:59] councilman fitch madam chair um

[19:03] i think we we heard enough which was very little in the closed session about

[19:07] this however uh i would uh since we don't

[19:11] know what's going to happen as a result of councilman trachus's motion and

[19:14] closed session um

[19:17] i do believe that the county executives made it very clear

[19:20] we've asked him multiple times now that he has no intention of releasing

[19:24] anything out of that personnel matter other than what he wanted to release is

[19:28] that dr khan was reprimanded for giving the middle finger to residents and

[19:33] constituents which is all he wanted to release i i

[19:36] still is as i said that night scratch my head how you can release part of it but

[19:41] not the rest so i would like to make a motion that uh according to pursuant to

[19:47] chapter 114 st louis county revised ordinances

[19:50] section one which states the record shall be closed and let's determine

[19:54] otherwise by a relevant government body i believe that we are the relevant

[19:58] government body so i make a motion that we allow that and request

[20:04] order that record to be opened per our uh

[20:09] ability to do that under those ordinances

[20:12] second is it has been moved in second is a

[20:16] discussion councilman trachus madam chair um

[20:22] with all due respect councilman fitch's interpretation of the ordinance is

[20:25] completely wrong there is no authority on this council to

[20:30] open that record um

[20:33] the proper procedure is to do as

[20:37] suggested and that is request a in-camera inspection

[20:41] by council members of the report of the administration's investigation

[20:47] um let the county executive answer that

[20:51] request one way or the other if he chooses not to provide that access

[20:56] then we move forward in whatever way is appropriate on the other hand if he does

[21:01] then i think it's incumbent on this body to

[21:06] take advantage of that limited access for inspection purposes review the

[21:11] report and the evidence it summarizes and then make a decision based on the

[21:16] totality of the circumstances and access to all of the information

[21:20] and evidence one way or the other with respect to whether or not the discipline

[21:26] metered out to doctor dr khan was appropriate i think it would be remiss

[21:30] to do anything prior to at least making that request madam chair of

[21:35] limited access to the report for inspection purposes thank you councilman

[21:40] fitch madam chair i think we heard the county

[21:42] councilor tell us that it's her opinion

[21:46] that we are not the relevant government body to open this record that only the

[21:49] county executive he himself has that authority to do that that one

[21:53] person is allowed to do that according to the research that i've had

[21:57] done on this from sunshine law experts it does not describe in the sunshine law

[22:03] who the relevant government body is we are clearly the relevant government body

[22:07] for st louis county um and i think that we can and it's her

[22:11] opinion miss orbit's opinion that we have no authority to do that and

[22:15] of course if we decide as a council to vote to

[22:18] open that record it will probably be litigated would be

[22:21] my guest because i would assume that the media would

[22:25] believe that we are the relevant government body they will make a

[22:28] sunshine request for this record it'll be denied and then it's going to have to

[22:32] be litigated to get to the an answer from a court i really wish i could

[22:36] believe that the county executive would allow us to see this in camera but i

[22:40] think he's made it very clear that he's not so

[22:42] um i'm i made the motion and i think councilman carter seconded it

[22:47] uh further discussion councilman tracus madam chair what is the downside to

[22:52] writing a letter making the request and having it either granted or denied at

[22:58] best it would take a week to complete that entire process probably half that

[23:02] time and and

[23:04] there's a chance that we avoid litigation as a result of it so

[23:09] there is no downside here to making the request

[23:12] we can always choose to litigate if in fact it's denied

[23:16] right um thank you anyone else councilman fitch um let me let me just

[23:22] see if we can kind of get ourselves out of this because i'm clearly planning to

[23:25] do as was instructed in the uh closed session and i think if we do that we can

[23:31] move forward either way or not this is just not the end of this we can make we

[23:36] can move this in steps if we could we make make the uh request that was done

[23:41] in in closed session we do that and then we can move forward with whatever else

[23:46] we may need to do to access the information that we clearly think that

[23:50] we deserve can uh councilman fitch

[23:54] madam chair i respect your um thoughts on this and as a result of that

[23:58] i would draw my motion but what i would like to also put in an

[24:03] ad that

[24:05] we give the county executive a deadline of when to respond to the letter that

[24:09] you're going to write asking for this inspection of the written report that

[24:13] was prepared on this whole thing because for me and i

[24:17] think many of us it's not about what discipline dr khan received it was about

[24:22] the investigation and what parts that it showed

[24:26] that they could prove or disprove or any of the evidence how they did the

[24:30] investigation if he just comes to us and says hey

[24:34] we did an investigation we wrote a report we're not giving it to you we

[24:37] gave him a reprimand verbally for giving the middle finger to residents that's

[24:40] nothing more than we knew coming into this today

[24:43] so it has to be um exactly what councilman trait has

[24:47] made the motion for uh that we are allowed to see

[24:50] the uh in-camera inspection of the record itself

[24:55] uh and anything short of that i think i come back to my motion that i made and i

[24:59] just withdrew thank you and i will make sure that the

[25:02] deadline is included in that all right councilman deadline madam chair thank

[25:06] you i agree with the deadline i do think though it's axiomatic that um

[25:11] the punishment is appropriate meaning that

[25:16] what does the report contain and does the punishment

[25:20] meet the crime is that the crime

[25:24] reasonably reflect what that report contains in terms of

[25:28] all the evidence or not so it is important that we find out what's in

[25:31] that report if we can if we can't then i think we can resort to litigation if we

[25:35] have to thank you thank you so

[25:38] uh you went through your motion and and yes your second is withdrawn as well

[25:41] thank you yeah and uh did we decide on a date

[25:45] we're giving them a week ten days what are we doing do you have a suggestion

[25:49] councilman fitch i would let uh councilman tracus make

[25:52] that suggestion since it was his motion but i would add i have a question for

[25:55] legal before councilman tracus answers is if the county executive says i'm not

[26:00] giving you anything more than i've already given you in the public meeting

[26:04] and i heard you know about litigation will the county counselor's office

[26:08] support this council in litigation if we

[26:12] make a motion to open this record and they deny it

[26:15] i'd like to hear their thoughts on that i think i know the answer that they're

[26:18] going to say they can't tell us an open open meeting but i think i know the

[26:21] answer but we'll let them answer let's just let's just give them a chance

[26:24] councilman fitch okay

[26:29] it is the policy of the office not to give advice during an open meeting but

[26:32] we'd be happy to provide you a response thank you and when can we expect a

[26:36] response as soon as possible

[26:41] we'll give you a couple of days thank you

[26:44] any further discussion on that i think councilman fitch thought i should just

[26:48] suggest a deadline for the county executive to respond yes i'm sure um

[26:53] i don't know when your letter is going to be ready to send so i would suggest

[26:56] that um a week from today is is more than enough time

[27:01] that way if it goes out tomorrow or the next day there's still plenty of time

[27:05] got it thank you councilman fitch just one additional item i think we were

[27:09] going to discuss whether or not we wanted to confirm or make a

[27:12] recommendation or to confirm dr khan's

[27:17] full appointment as the director of the department of public health

[27:20] ma'am chair do you think we're in a position to have that discussion today

[27:23] or do you want to wait till we see what happens as a result of this uh request

[27:27] for the investigation i mean we have waited this long i would really like to

[27:30] see what it is that that has to be said along this issue and then we will make a

[27:34] decision at that so uh at the meeting tonight i will continue to hold that

[27:39] appointment thank you manager all right anything else

[27:44] motion to adjourn

[27:51] see you in about half an hour thank you

[28:17] you

10.5.21 Council Committee of the Whole Meeting

Transcript