[0:18] Good evening. I call to order the uh city council meeting for October 6th.

[0:25] And we will begin with our invocation from uh Council Member King.

[0:33] Gracious and loving God, we come before you this evening with grateful hearts,

[0:38] seeking your wisdom and guidance as we serve our community. Bless this council

[0:44] and our management team with discernment, compassion, and integrity.

[0:49] That every decision will reflect justice, kindness, and fiscal

[0:54] responsibility for the well-being of our citizens.

[0:58] May we work together in unity, honoring the trust placed in us and striving

[1:03] always to uplift those we represent. In your holy name we pray. Amen.

[1:09] » Amen. >> I aliance to the flag of the United

[1:14] States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under

[1:21] indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

[1:28] Ma'am Kirk will have a roll call, please.

[1:30] » Yes, sir. Councilman Jones, post one. >> I'm here.

[1:33] » Councilman Connor, post two. >> I'm here.

[1:35] » Councilman Ingram, post three. >> Here.

[1:38] » Councilman Nasnto, post four. >> Councilman Rassie, post five.

[1:44] » Present. >> Councilman King, post six.

[1:46] » Here. >> Mayor Lockhart.

[1:48] » I'm here, ma'am. >> Sir, we have a quorum.

[1:50] » Yes, ma'am. Thank you. And for the uh purposes of uh minutes, the unanimous

[1:54] vote will be five. Yes sir. Okay. >> Our first item is approval of our

[1:59] minutes from the September 15th city council meeting work session development

[2:04] redevelopment tax incentive program blighted properties and regular and the

[2:08] October 2nd uh fourth quarter developers progress

[2:12] updated town hall. >> Make a motion we approve motion by Mr.

[2:15] Connor. >> Second.

[2:16] » Second by Miss King. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? That's

[2:23] unanimous madam. >> Yes sir. Righty.

[2:27] Next thing is the uh board appointment. So, we have a new board, the tax

[2:33] allocation district number three advisory board. Still looking for one

[2:36] member to fill out um that board. And we have the uh board appointment for the

[2:43] Camden County Board of Education Sex Education Structural Review Committee.

[2:48] So if you have an interest in serving in any of those capacities, uh, please see

[2:52] our clerk with an application. The report of our authorities, boards,

[2:58] and commissions, we have our finance report. And that uh, looks like Murder

[3:03] is going to be here to give that. >> Good evening, mayor and council. In your

[3:07] packets, you will find the financial report of the city's revenue and expend

[3:11] expenditures through August 2025, which is the second month of fiscal year 2026.

[3:17] Do you have any questions? >> No, ma'am. Good report.

[3:22] » Thank you. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you.

[3:26] And that leads us to the report of our city manager, Mr. Ho.

[3:39] Good evening, Mayor and Council, citizens.

[3:42] Um, first off, let me start by saying I'm not sick, but I do have silences and

[3:48] it's I have and for Dr. Marino, I have been wearing my protective equipment.

[3:54] So, it is silences. That's a whole different discussion. Anyway, demolition

[4:00] of the old city pool. Anderson Environmental has completed the lead

[4:03] asbestous abatement project. The city has received the report from Anderson

[4:08] Environmental that the project is clear. We're still waiting on the final

[4:12] disposal certification to close out the projects. Soon as we receive that,

[4:16] public works crews can begin demolition process and we utilize the project to

[4:21] train heavy equipment operators that are on staff on how to use the the big stuff

[4:28] in the rightway mowing. for city crews. Um route for city crews is down to 14

[4:34] days after contracting additional road sections and waterfront park. As the

[4:38] crews are able to get caught up on items such as edging, uh we would expect the

[4:44] route time to decrease even further to a goal of 10 days. The downtown mowing

[4:50] areas, non-contracted, are running on a 6-day route schedule. We are working

[4:56] towards a goal to get this down to 5-day schedule. Our contractors, Coastal

[5:01] Greenery and Addis Lawn Care, are working on their respective roadway

[5:05] sections. Sidewalk and curb edging has been a topic of concern from residents

[5:10] due to weed killers being used instead of the mechanical edging. Contractors

[5:15] have been made aware of not to use the weed killer for edging, but only for

[5:20] cracks and joint weed control. Um, Landscape Innovations has completed

[5:26] the removal and replacement of stone pavered walkways

[5:31] in the first road medium on Osborne with a cannon. Um, ditch crews as of 103, the

[5:39] ditch crew number one is 75% complete on outfall ditches and ditch crew number

[5:44] two just completed the ditches in the Palmetto Street area. They'll be moving

[5:49] towards the Dovas Drive, Florence Street area. Ditch crew 2 is currently

[5:55] repairing a leak storm drain inlet on stable alley and cleaning ditches

[5:59] throughout the city that are in urgent need of cleaning. The old place drainage

[6:04] project. Public work staff has received the signed easements from the three

[6:09] property owners and have sent sent them to the city attorney for recording. Once

[6:13] the easements have been recorded, the city can move in to establish the

[6:17] necessary swell to help mitigate the backyard drainage issue there. The

[6:22] Palmetto Street drainage. The public works department is currently working to

[6:26] secure a surveyor for the survey and legal descriptions needed to submit to

[6:31] the city attorney to draft the easement agreement for the property owner to

[6:36] sign. Um for council, there's a drawing in your a map in your packet so you can

[6:43] see it. Uh the co-rain road winding road roundabout. City of Kingsland, city of

[6:48] St. Mary's have teamed up on this project including design, permit, and

[6:52] construction. The city will take the lead on the project with city of St.

[6:56] Mary's having collaborative input through the whole process with expenses

[7:00] being split 50/50 between two cities. The RFPs are to be open on October 9th

[7:07] at 2 p.m. We are planning to be there. Um the LIG project, LIIG projects for 25

[7:16] and 25 cemental are being prepared to send out for construction bids. The lame

[7:22] 26 projects are being developed to to submit to city council for approval

[7:27] prior to submittal to G dot. trash cans on Osborne Street. New trash

[7:34] cans, uh, five of them are scheduled to be delivered on the 6th, um, which was

[7:40] today. Once they're arrived, they'll be assembled and they will be installed on

[7:44] Osborne Street on from St. Mary Street to Dillingham Street. That's public

[7:49] trash cans like you see at the waterfront, the the black ones with the

[7:54] things in the bonnet, the whole nine yards. Um, we had our RFP opening for

[8:00] the tennis courts and had no biders. Mr. Williams is reaching out to make contact

[8:06] with vendors and get price quotes. We were hoping to have something for you

[8:10] tonight, but we're still waiting on a couple of bids. Okay.

[8:15] Uh, we had our RFP opening for the front porch repairs of tourism building with

[8:20] only one bid. Staff is still reviewing the proposal at this time. we'll we'll

[8:25] have it in front of you one way or another here very shortly. Um we have

[8:30] reached out to GMC regarding the storm water program on getting a price on

[8:34] getting the information updated and to help getting the building set up for

[8:39] that utility. We've also been working on how we're going to handle the utility

[8:46] internally with staff that we currently have. Uh we have hope to have it wrapped

[8:50] up in the upcoming weeks. For everybody that's in the audience and

[8:57] listening online, please listen to this. The

[9:01] Department of Natural Resources will be placing a used oyster shell collection

[9:06] dumpster at the Meeting Street boat ramp as early as next Friday. This initiative

[9:12] is a part of a statewide effort to collect and repurpose oyster shells

[9:18] h for habitat restoration and shoreline protection. The program has proven

[9:24] successful at other docks throughout Georgia and the DNR believes our

[9:28] location will serve as a great addition to these efforts. They will be providing

[9:33] additional information soon posting on our website. No assistance or

[9:38] permits are required from the city as the lease agreement for the dock allows

[9:42] for these types of collection programs. So when they you go down to put your

[9:47] boat in at the meeting street boat ramp you see the dumpster it's not for trash

[9:52] it's for oyster ships. So we'll have more information on that coming soon.

[9:57] Mr. Mayor that concludes my report this for evening unless someone has a

[10:01] question. Will this agreement with DNR for the

[10:05] oyster shells uh have any language in there about how often they will collect

[10:10] and empty those things as to prohibit them from becoming uh ownorous

[10:17] » owners. I will let you know as soon as we know I

[10:22] will let you know. They contacted me today about this program. Um

[10:25] » we're just trying to get the information out as quick as we poss

[10:29] Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? All right. Thank you, Mr.

[10:34] » Thank you. >> Okay. We'll move to uh set our consent

[10:39] agenda.

[10:43] » So for we have no old business items. For new business, we have the

[10:47] authorization to issue notice of non-renewal of marketing agreement with

[10:52] utility service partners private label inc DBA home serve service line warranty

[10:57] of America program. >> Consent.

[11:00] » Consent.

[11:04] The Historic Preservation Fund Grant Award for Historic Preservation

[11:08] Commission Community Design Guidelines from Georgia Department of Community

[11:12] Affairs Historic Preservation Division. >> Consent.

[11:17] » C. Designing for resilience through estuary restoration and defense

[11:21] community professional services agreement for engineering and design

[11:26] services with Black and Fat. Uh, National Fish and Wildlife

[11:30] Foundation spine program.

[11:37] » D, National Flood Insurance Program Community Rating System Program for

[11:41] Public Information Annual Report approved.

[11:44] » Excuse me, sir. I do apologize. Um, Jamie has asked if you could not put

[11:47] that on consent because she'd like to present that report.

[11:50] » Okay, we'll discuss.

[11:55] » All right. Item E, professional services contract for geographic information

[12:00] systems with Kosal Regional Commission. >> Discuss.

[12:04] » Discuss. >> Since you'll be up anyway.

[12:08] [Music] >> Item F, annual external financial and

[12:11] compliance audit services contract for Malden Jenkins Certified Public

[12:15] Accountants.

[12:20] G. Uh, winding road trail project right ofway acquisition services task order

[12:25] number two amendment number three. >> Consent.

[12:32] Item H, St. Mary's Harbor LLC new alcohol license.

[12:35] » Consent. >> Consent.

[12:40] » And item I, rescend resolution and quick claim deed for transfer of ownership

[12:44] regarding St. Mary Civic Park and Lake St. Mary's Canon County Public Service

[12:48] Authority September 15th, 2025 city council meeting.

[12:51] » Discuss.

[12:55] » Okay. So, for the consent agenda, we have items A, B, C,

[13:02] F, G, and H. So, with that, we'll have granting

[13:09] audience to the public. So, if you have uh anything that you'd like to talk to

[13:14] us about uh items on agenda or otherwise, please come to the

[13:18] microphone, give us your name and address, and uh try to keep your

[13:21] comments to 5 minutes or less.

[13:30] » Mhm.

[13:37] Bird seals 816 View Drive. um

[13:43] two things. the um item F,

[13:50] the annual external financial compliance order service contract. You know, um I

[13:57] know you all sent it out and like this is we only had one and I'm kind of

[14:02] wondering you uh where is by the way 6600 Aine

[14:10] Street 200 is that in St. Mary's? >> It's in Savannah I believe. Oh.

[14:15] » Mhm. >> Savannah. Okay.

[14:19] So, Mr. Blunt and all these guys, they ain't taking a chance. They ain't going

[14:23] for it. >> They don't do audit services like this.

[14:25] » Very specialized. Okay. >> So, that's the Savannah. Okay. All they

[14:30] said was sweet 200. So, I didn't know who where it was. You know what I mean?

[14:34] All right.

[14:37] Um, I want to go back to Scrubby Bluff.

[14:44] you know, um, you know, uh, when we get to

[14:50] Wayne, I'm trying to think of where that whole area, the shell, BP, KOA, M, uh,

[14:56] those up are come up that comes up under St. Mary's,

[15:01] the city of St. Mary's. >> I think most of the properties on the

[15:05] west side of the interstate are city of Kingsland on

[15:09] » Well, there's a little tease there. Let's see what it signs. Okay. For

[15:13] example, where the pilot pilot >> the street the street itself does go

[15:17] down as St. Mary's and I think there's a piece of there's a parcel down there

[15:20] somewhere that's flagged in but most of what's on the west side is in city of

[15:26] Kingsland. >> Even the pilot

[15:30] » pilot on our side is >> well there's a pilot

[15:34] » pilot on the east side is St. Mary's. The pilot on the west side is Kingsman

[15:38] I'm pretty sure. >> Yes.

[15:39] » Yes. Oh, so everything on that side is basically Kingsland.

[15:44] » Yes, sir. >> But they put a they have that sign up

[15:47] there showing way back the KOA and all that stuff. All that debate, the BP and

[15:52] Shell, all that belongs to Kingston. >> Yes, sir.

[15:55] » Wow. I didn't know that.

[16:00] Okay, that says a lot then. You know that KOA coach parking and all that

[16:06] stuff. All that's Kingsland. Oh, I didn't know that. I thought that

[16:12] was Py Mary's.

[16:15] We learn every day. That's all I got. >> Thank you, sir.

[16:18] » Thank you, B.

[16:38] White. 102 Assembly's Court. I'm glad to see that you're consenting

[16:43] item A under new business, which is not to renew the the contract with this

[16:48] company that's been using the city of St. Mary's emblem under envelopes,

[16:53] mailing out advertisements to property owners, thinking that it's dealing with

[16:58] us with the consent of the St. Mary's government. and I read through your

[17:04] packet and I don't think they have a leg to stand on when they don't remove renew

[17:09] our contract with them. I think that's about probably is up in February, I

[17:13] think, cuz you have to do a 90-day notification that you're not going to

[17:17] redo the contract with them. So, I hope that's true.

[17:22] The other thing is on item I, I'm not sure exactly what that means. And since

[17:28] that was just added today to the to the agenda, I would like a better

[17:33] explanation from Councilwoman Keen as to why she wants to resend this agreement

[17:40] with the county. >> We'll do that when we discuss it.

[17:53] Dave Smith, 112 New Hammock Circle up in Shadowon. Um,

[17:59] just wanted to remind everybody that the 25th of October, Saturday, is I believe

[18:05] the 10th annual Alzheimer's walk for Camden County.

[18:12] » Thank you. Thank you. >> Where will this start?

[18:15] » Starts at the waterfront >> at the waterfront park.

[18:18] And it ends with the waterfront part.

[18:30] » All right. There's no one else. We'll uh >> Okay. I'm sorry.

[18:34] » I have a question. >> Have a question. Jamie Galves, 107

[18:40] McDow, St. Mary's, uh McDall Street. Uh resoning of the industrial park. When

[18:47] will that come on the agenda >> or does it have to go through?

[18:51] » It's going to be at the next meeting. >> It's already been

[18:54] » It's already been done. Yeah. So, yeah, we So, that's right. So, the uh You're

[19:00] talking about the Commerce Park or the industrial park?

[19:02] » The industrial park where the airport's at?

[19:05] » Yeah, the same commerce park. We do We did that at the last meeting.

[19:09] » It's already passed. >> It's already passed.

[19:11] » Yes, sir. >> Sir, could you please repeat your name

[19:14] and address for the clerk? J A I M E first name there. Nobody ever spells it

[19:19] right. Galves, same thing. G A L A V I Z. One 07 McDow Street, St. Mary's.

[19:27] » Thank you. >> Is that good? Okay. Thank you very much.

[19:30] » Thank you.

[19:39] » All right. There's no one else. We'll uh vote on our consent agenda. So once

[19:45] again to uh we have items um A, B, C,

[19:54] F, G, and H on our consent agenda. I have a motion to approve.

[19:58] » So moved. >> Second. Okay. Motion by Mr. Ingram,

[20:03] second by Mr. Jones. Any discussion? All those in favor?

[20:07] » I. >> Any opposed?

[20:10] » Okay, that's unanimous now. >> Yes, sir. And uh now have a motion to

[20:14] approve the agenda. So >> move second.

[20:18] » Miss Keane, any other questions or comments? All those in favor?

[20:23] » I. >> Any post? That

[20:26] » unanimous? >> Yes, sir.

[20:28] » Okay. So, that takes us into our new business. And uh I do want to comment,

[20:32] Mr. White, you brought it up uh on item A. Um, just so everyone knows, like I

[20:39] said, that we're we're moving forward with the steps to cancel that, but uh

[20:44] the contract goes on until early next year, February, March, and so you may

[20:49] still yet receive letters, but the process is underway. Okay. And with

[20:55] that, we've got item D, the National Flood Insurance Program Community

[20:59] Rating, and Miss Stein is going to address.

[21:05] Thank you uh council members and mayor and thank you uh madame clerk for

[21:10] queuing up this uh presentation. So about this time every year uh the

[21:16] community development department uh issues uh what's called the program for

[21:20] public information report. This has to do with our participation in the

[21:25] community rating system which is part of the national flood insurance program. Uh

[21:30] so in the report that you've received, I just wanted to go over a few key items.

[21:35] I also wanted to let you know that um typically we do an annual reertification

[21:42] of this program, but on um September 1st, I did receive an email in which uh

[21:50] FEMA has announced that the CRS program uh will no longer be uh have a

[21:57] reertification review. So, typically by October 15th,

[22:02] my office has to send all the information in to kind of an an auditor

[22:08] and they look at all of the work that we've done over the year and they uh

[22:12] give us uh reertification of our uh levels of participation in the program.

[22:19] This year, due to a reduction in funding, they won't be doing it, but

[22:22] they just ask that we continue to operate business as usual. So, uh that's

[22:27] what we're going to continue doing. So, uh, the program for public information,

[22:32] this is a report that is typically the same every year, but, uh, I did want to,

[22:38] uh, highlight a few key things for members of the public. So, our website,

[22:43] on the community development department's website, there is a section

[22:47] on flood plane management. There are several great resources in there,

[22:51] particularly related to knowing your flood zone, the city's flood map, uh

[22:57] different uh resources for flood protection. Uh we also have uh

[23:02] repetitive loss mailing. So every year my department will send letters to those

[23:07] properties which have experienced repetitive losses due to flooding. Uh we

[23:12] also uh for any of you that are in the flood plane, you probably received a

[23:17] brochure from us that looks something like this. Uh so that's part of our

[23:21] annual communications. Um and we also do public announcements. I did one at the

[23:26] uh work session or the uh development progress update last week and we're

[23:32] doing it again here. A couple of new exciting things though. under the

[23:36] leadership of the county's flood plane uh manager, a woman named Miss Cassie

[23:42] Turpin, she has re-engaged a um countywide group of stakeholders that

[23:48] will meet on a quarterly basis uh to review our program for public

[23:53] information and see if we can come up with some creative ways to get more

[23:57] information out there and more participation. Uh and a great thing

[24:01] about that is that she's engaged uh the city of Kingsland which is new to the

[24:05] CRS program. She's also engaged uh someone from the real estate uh sector

[24:10] as well as someone from the home insurance sector. So we look forward to

[24:14] continuing those quarterly meetings uh in future. And one little tidbit of of

[24:20] um of data every year starting uh we we stop counting October 1st. So October to

[24:28] October, uh we tally all of the certificates of occupancy that have been

[24:32] issued for new structures in the flood plane. Uh and this last year we uh CO 36

[24:38] new structures in the flood plane. >> Any questions?

[24:42] » I I do have a question. Um this is great and I love to hear that there's going to

[24:48] be some uh meetings about public information. Mhm.

[24:52] » Um will we be getting out any information for people that may be

[24:58] building or remodeling in a flood plane so that they're very aware of certain

[25:04] special code requirements um in a flood plane?

[25:09] » Yes. So, uh, typically, uh, when there is a property that get takes out a

[25:15] building permit, uh, most building permits that do anything on the exterior

[25:20] or create something new will require a site plan. Uh, my office and I will

[25:25] check to see if it is in the special flood hazard area. If it is, then they

[25:30] have to get an elevation certificate and they have to go through a series of

[25:33] steps. I mean, if anyone's thinking about remodeling or building in the

[25:37] flood plane, please come see me. you know, anybody I I I pride myself on

[25:42] anybody can walk into building and planning and get somebody from 8:00 am

[25:46] to 5:00 pm, even juggling lunch hours. So, please just come in and talk to us

[25:50] if you have uh any any questions about that. And I think the remodeling piece,

[25:55] which we've had a little bit of trepidation with in the past, uh there

[26:00] is a substantial improvement clause in the National Flood Insurance Program and

[26:05] in our flood plane management ordinance. So just uh please be reminded if you are

[26:11] if you are doing renovations which constitute more than 50% of your

[26:16] existing property value, I'll be asking you uh for your uh elevation

[26:21] certificate. >> Great. Thank you.

[26:24] » Thank you very much. >> Motion.

[26:29] » Yes, sir. >> So move. So I'll say

[26:31] » I jumped on. >> Any further questions?

[26:37] All those in favor? >> I.

[26:39] » Any oppose? >> Unanimous. M.

[26:42] » Yes, sir. >> Excuse me. All right.

[26:47] Our next item then um is the professional services contract for

[26:51] geographic information systems with the CRC.

[26:55] » Uh thank you. >> My question is simple. You know, it's

[26:59] just probably yes or no. Um

[27:05] um do we have anybody in house that has u um knowledge with GIS

[27:15] or did we have anybody at one time? >> Uh yes and yes. So I'll I'll speak to

[27:23] that. We used to uh during my time here we did um advance a role in the

[27:31] department for a GIS manager. Uh that uh particular employee didn't work out. Um

[27:39] and because I've learned uh basically our the extent of how much geographic

[27:47] information system work that we do in the city uh I don't feel that that role

[27:51] is necessary anymore. Uh, one of the things that when I came into the role,

[27:56] we had um an enterprise server, which is something in the GIS world that the

[28:02] county has, it's a very large investment uh in doing GIS. And frankly, we don't

[28:07] we don't do that type of analysis and layer creation and uh those types of

[28:13] things that would warrant that investment or having a GIS manager. So

[28:17] uh we paired it down uh and now we do this professional services contract with

[28:22] the coastal regional commission. Uh we had this in place last year. So this is

[28:27] just a renewal. Uh some of the great things that came out of this

[28:31] professional services contract was uh the integration of our zoning map and

[28:37] and uh parcel layers that we have on the website with cloud permit which is our

[28:42] online permitting system. So now those two systems speak to each other and that

[28:47] requires uh a bit of a a bit of coding that sends the county's data to our

[28:53] version of cloud permit and back and that happens on a monthly basis. Um in

[28:58] house our junior planner, Miss Elise Pierce is uh is

[29:05] excellent, incredible, potentially one of my best hires uh and she is getting

[29:09] her master's degree from the University of Florida. Um but

[29:14] » say that again

[29:18] » in in city and regional planning and she has really upped our internal GIS game.

[29:23] So she makes sure that some of the things that that we're doing inhouse are

[29:28] are um of really good quality. So, just to kind of clarify, we we have

[29:33] the in-house capability to access the system and pull basic information,

[29:37] things we might need, but that we are relying on CRC for some of the back-end

[29:42] programming and integrations and things like that. That's what this contract is

[29:46] about. >> Yeah. Most recently, we had to update

[29:48] all of the city streets. Uh, and we worked with CRC to do that, and that

[29:52] actually helped us create new, uh, grids of the city streets for after uh,

[29:59] emergency uh, responses. So, a couple of real good things.

[30:03] » Okay, >> any other questions? I have a motion to

[30:06] approve, >> Mr. Jones. Is there a second?

[30:10] » Second. >> Second by Mr. Ingram. Any discussion?

[30:14] All those in favor? I. >> Any oppose? Unanimous. Madam cler.

[30:18] » Yes, sir. >> Thank you, Miss Stein.

[30:24] And that takes us to item I, uh,

[30:31] for the possibility of rescending the resolution and quick claim deed for the

[30:34] transfer of ownership. And, uh, um, I'll let Miss Keane start with the

[30:40] conversation about about this. So on September 15th, uh the council,

[30:48] one of the items that we approved was the transfer of our park from and this

[30:54] is the park uh that contains the aquatic center. It's 40ome plus acres

[31:02] from the PSA back to the city of St. Mary's. Um, one of the things that

[31:09] happened during that meeting was our city attorney mentioned that he had some

[31:13] concerns about that. So, early this week, I spoke to him about that.

[31:19] And one of the things that I learned during that conversation is that when he

[31:24] was doing the title search on the property, um, he found an IRS lean. Um,

[31:32] and as you may remember, there were some problems in the past, way in the past,

[31:38] uh, with the PSA and their payroll taxes. So,

[31:44] I talked to my fellow council members. There were four of us um, that did not

[31:50] know about the IRS lean. Um, and the other two from various work and

[31:56] conversations that they were doing did know about it. Um, I just wanted to

[32:02] bring that information forth, uh, because the lean, um, I've got the

[32:09] leans here from the county totals approximately,

[32:16] uh, 1.1 plus or minus some money and those leans transfer with the

[32:24] property. So, >> could you You said 1.1

[32:30] » plus or minus. Yeah, there's one for >> Yes.

[32:35] » 9. >> We didn't We didn't hit a million.

[32:38] » Oh, okay. 9114,838, [Music]

[32:42] 594, 309,

[32:47] and 36,120.

[32:51] So there's really I mean I don't think I would have voted the way I did or and

[32:57] this by the way was a consent item. We all knew that we wanted to get this

[33:01] done. We've been working to try and get the parks out of the PSA and take over

[33:05] maintenance. So I think at this meeting it was

[33:10] natural that it was a consent item. Had I known about the lean, I would have at

[33:16] least wanted to discuss it especially with you all.

[33:20] uh make you aware of it. So there's really no cut and dried answer on this,

[33:28] no good answer really, but there are a couple of options that we have. Um I

[33:35] understand from the attorney that the um one of the things we can do is try and

[33:42] negotiate something with the county and the city uh of Kingsland, the city of

[33:49] St. Mary's in the city of Woodbine as to their obligation

[33:54] regarding this lean and essentially we would be all all of

[34:00] us would be responsible because the PSA really doesn't have any money. It's

[34:05] funded by all of the cities in the county. So since it's a PSA debt,

[34:12] um it's natural to think that we would all pitch in on that. But when you're

[34:19] dealing with the IRS, um, you're never sure once they have a lean

[34:25] on a piece of property, you know, they're if they feel like they need to

[34:31] exercise that, they can. So, my idea is that we just tap the brakes for a minute

[34:37] here and work out that agreement and then, um,

[34:45] transfer the property after that.

[34:49] And is there any other commentary on that?

[34:56] » Go ahead. >> I knew about the the issues with the IRS

[35:02] last year. Um, and it just I never thought that they would put a lean on

[35:08] the property um if we decided that we would pull out of

[35:14] the PSA. And it's it's unfortunate that once they

[35:20] put a lean on a piece of property, it's we have to accept the responsibility of

[35:25] of payment. Uh so I agree maybe we need to just kind of slow our roll until we

[35:33] can get a a handle on this and find out who's going to pay what or if we have to

[35:38] pay anything in order to uh uh get the land free and clear. And I would like to

[35:45] add one more thing. Excuse me. Um, when our city attorney did the title search

[35:52] on the land, he did find the lean and he did talk to our city manager and mayor

[35:59] about that. And you know, as I pointed out, there are many different ways to

[36:04] look at this. Um, and I don't know that any particular way is wrong. some ways,

[36:12] you know, you could say, well, that's down the road and surely everybody will

[36:16] agree to pitch in when the time comes, but it could be two or three years,

[36:21] maybe even longer before this gets resolved. And,

[36:26] you know, by their very nature, our city government councils change every couple

[36:32] of years. So I tend to go with the conservative approach and that is to

[36:39] work that issue out first and then transfer the property after that.

[36:47] » Yeah, those are definitely all very valid concerns. Um I do know the PSA um

[36:54] and their board changes as well. Um they do have, you know, a current board

[36:58] that's been on top of the situation as far as they have made multiple uh

[37:04] attempts to settle the debt at a reduced amount. Uh those have failed, but this

[37:09] last or where they're at currently is they have hired a law firm that deals

[37:12] with this specifically uh with the IRS. Uh the IRS now directly will deal and

[37:18] they're currently furled, but uh when they come back into business, like Miss

[37:21] Keane said, it could be six months, but it could be three years. you know,

[37:24] there's no timeline of when this uh could be situated or settled, but with

[37:28] the um law firm, to my understanding, that's been hired that, you know, they

[37:34] do deal with this with city government and uh the IRS would speak directly with

[37:39] them. And it's not common for the IRS to come and just want to, you know, like

[37:42] seize or u you know, auction off a property that's governmentowned. Uh and

[37:47] they wouldn't just come and do it. Um, yes, we do need to, you know, have

[37:52] clarity, you know, who whose responsibility would be, but, you know,

[37:56] like Councilwoman Keane described, you know, it is a shared debt between the

[38:02] county, Kingsland, St. Mary's, and I know Woodbmine is a mild contributor and

[38:07] has been, but, you know, they're pulling out of the PSA. Um we do need to get

[38:12] clarification that you know make a new agreement of some sort and be it

[38:16] separate or an amended agreement that would outline worst case scenarios and

[38:21] that's what this would be the worst case scenarios if that were to happen. Um,

[38:26] but it is something we have to deal with either way because it was, you know,

[38:29] funded by, you know, the the local governments, uh, the PSA. And yes, the

[38:33] PSA had its issues. Um, and and we're trying to, you know, obviously pull away

[38:37] from that. Um,

[38:42] as far as not accepting the property, um, we're almost in a position and there

[38:47] is no right answer here. U there's not a direct right thing to do because it's a

[38:51] hairy situation no matter which direction we choose to go. Um you know

[38:55] the PSA approved their budget which is a significantly reduced budget for

[38:59] managing sports and only maintaining the property uh at 10 1050 Wildcat Drive. Um

[39:05] you know there is no budget for any maintenance of any park. Um you know so

[39:11] January 1 there's no anything from the PSA. So it is you know going to be our

[39:16] responsibility which we you know accounted for with these discussions.

[39:20] Um,

[39:23] Robbie, I know that in 2019, I were Were you in your position 2019? Perfect.

[39:30] » Um, so there was a insurance settlement agreement. Um, that was roughly, we're

[39:35] going to use a rough number about $600,000.

[39:38] Um, I know just speaking with u the chairman of the PSA board who's on

[39:43] Kansas City Council, you know, they got roughly $200,000. They set an account.

[39:48] uh you know so whenever a settlement would come that they have that sitting

[39:52] there. Uh do we know what we did with our share of that insurance settlement?

[39:58] » It was uh it was a lawsuit by the county um and it was distributed out and there

[40:03] there was some monies there. So >> probably mid209

[40:07] I think >> correct about right about that. So uh

[40:10] I'm curious what we chose to do with our collection of that. um you know if we by

[40:16] chance have set it aside and if you don't know about it maybe we haven't. I

[40:18] don't don't know finance. Okay. Um so I know they set theirs aside. So um but

[40:26] neither here nor there. Um you know we are going to have to do something with

[40:30] the park. Um as far as you know it seems that we're going to take it over one way

[40:36] or another. That's what we want. We want to put money into it. We don't want to

[40:38] put projects on hold. Um, it is something we have to work out, but

[40:43] I I don't know that terminating our existing decision is the best thing to

[40:47] do right now. >> Well, you know, we've been putting money

[40:50] into this park, which has been owned by the PSA

[40:55] routinely. We've been, you know, repairing the water park and we are

[41:02] about to put some money into some tennis courts and I don't really see that that

[41:08] needs to stop. I mean, I don't envision that this process of tapping the brakes

[41:14] on, you know, approving the transfer of the property takes a very long time. if

[41:21] in fact everybody is willing to pay their part when the time comes

[41:29] um when we've negotiated something with the IRS then it should be a pretty

[41:34] simple process to incorporate that into our agreement

[41:39] and I don't think it should take that long and in the meantime it doesn't hold

[41:44] us up. I don't think that we should stop doing what we're doing with the parks

[41:49] because we've been doing some things with the park even though we don't own

[41:55] it. I just think when you have a lean on a piece of property, you want to have an

[42:00] agre an agreement about how that lean's going to be paid before you accept a

[42:05] lean in the transfer because we've had already two failed offering

[42:11] compromises. We're working on another one.

[42:15] The county, the PSA is working on another one and they've got a very good

[42:20] firm working on it. But the likelihood is that, you know, we're not going to

[42:26] get an offer that reduces the whole liability. And

[42:31] in the 2023, even though the leans add up to about

[42:36] $1.2 $2 million in the 2023 audited financial statements for the PSA.

[42:43] There's a footnote in there that says that the liability was 1.5 million. So I

[42:50] don't we nobody really knows what the balance is right now. And that's another

[42:55] reason why I think we just need to proceed with caution and that is my only

[43:02] reason for bringing it to everybody's attention.

[43:06] Mr. Blackby, can I ask you that you did you prepare the uh the quick claim uh

[43:12] information for the city of Kingsland as well to take back the Lions Park?

[43:16] » I have not. >> Okay. Because did they I believe they

[43:20] have they have done that already is uh they were supposed to have done that.

[43:24] » I don't believe they've done that yet. >> No,

[43:26] » I don't believe they have. >> Okay.

[43:29] » You know, one of the things that uh you know, we we've been talking about this

[43:33] property since January. um uh and not knowing quite who owned what and there

[43:40] was a lot of debate about did we own the land underneath the aquatic center?

[43:44] Would did the county own all you know was there was a lot of back and forth

[43:48] about it. Um you know the fact of the matter is is that uh you know this

[43:53] property and any property that I would assume I don't know why it would just

[43:58] have been placed on one piece of property. Uh, but if the IRS had a lean

[44:03] on on properties um

[44:08] owned by the PSA, then it would have been all the properties owned by the PSA

[44:12] assumably. Is that a fair assumption or would they

[44:15] » I think that's right. The question that I've that I have is which properties

[44:19] were actually conveyed to PSA because talking to the PSA attorney, he

[44:23] indicated there were a fair number that had been intended to be conveyed that

[44:27] never were. Um, I think in particular there's a park in Woodbine that never

[44:31] got conveyed to PSA, so that was still owned by Woodbine. And then I'm not sure

[44:35] about some of the county parks either. >> Okay.

[44:38] » So, would it be accurate that the lean would be also attached to 1050 W cap

[44:43] drive where the PSA office is and and Lions Club Park actually owned by the

[44:48] PSA. >> So, if you look on the public records,

[44:51] » I was Let me finish please. So the um you know the lean's going to exist

[44:58] whether we own it or or it's back to PSA owns it and the possibility of the

[45:04] property being seized and sold at auction or whatever in order to satisfy

[45:09] this this amount due to the IRS is a

[45:14] possibility either way. Um, and you know that that was just kind of the reality I

[45:19] thought we were dealing with. And I know some of the steps that the PSA has been

[45:23] taking with as council member Keane mentioned that they had filed to have

[45:27] this dismissed in two prior occasions, but when they had done that, they had

[45:31] not done all of their quarterly filings and so it was an incomplete record and

[45:36] so they were summarily just uh, you know, ignored because they had not had a

[45:42] complete tax record yet. Uh so in in recent months that complete record has

[45:47] now been filed with the IRS and the PSA is currently

[45:52] uh has done everything that the IRS uh has asked of them in order to move this

[45:59] process forward. And so as as those are now being documented as being filed by

[46:04] the IRS, the uh tax firm that the PSA has hired is going to be, you know,

[46:11] seeking for some dismissal of some of the fees, interest or uh actually

[46:16] partial fees. We don't know what'll happen there. But my other contention

[46:20] was is that you know this uh even though there's no language specifically to it

[46:25] in the uh that I could find or that we've reviewed yet that indicates that

[46:32] um specific debt of the PSA is would be shared by everyone as part of the PSA.

[46:41] um you know in all my conversations with uh leaders from the other cities and and

[46:45] PSA that uh it is you know clearly understood

[46:49] that this debt is belongs to the PSA and thus belongs to everyone and um you know

[46:56] in speaking with Mr. black will be today in the new IG that you know that we

[47:02] enter into. My question really kind of was does this belong in the IG even

[47:06] because if Woodbine who had voted previously not to join the new IG

[47:14] uh they would still would not they still be liable for their share of this debt,

[47:20] you know. Um, and I think we would all agree on a moral standpoint that yes,

[47:25] they would I mean, they were part and parcel to this when it occurred, you

[47:29] know, 15 years ago. And uh, under that um, but as as council member, you know,

[47:36] King pointed out, we, you know, people are people and people

[47:40] in money. they do things. And so, you know, I don't think it's a bad idea to

[47:44] to have a written agreement that specifies

[47:49] uh and everyone I've spoken to would kind of agrees to this or kind of but

[47:54] does agree to the fact that it is shared debt. Uh it belongs to all of the m

[47:59] municipalities and county equally or not equally but based on their proportional

[48:03] share uh of this debt. And so if we can add

[48:07] that into the new agreement, if Woodbine does choose to join this initial

[48:12] agreement, if they don't, then I think we have to have an agreement outside of

[48:16] the IGA that addresses this debt if we're trying to get something in

[48:20] writing. Um, but you know, the cities and the counties we

[48:27] have, they were 20 years ago, I don't know how many of you are here, but there

[48:31] were a lot there used to be a lot of back and forth. uh there was a lot of

[48:35] negative negivism between the municipalities and the county and and uh

[48:40] nasty working relationships and things didn't go well that you know that is

[48:45] much improved in these years and everyone has good working relationships

[48:49] and you know naive as I may be I I do trust the relationships of of the other

[48:56] leaders that we have that you know that we can settle this and so for that

[49:00] reason I didn't ne necessarily personally think that it

[49:04] necessary to step backwards from the progress we made into getting this

[49:08] property in our name because that lean is going to exist whether it's in our

[49:12] name or it's you know uh back at the PSA and if the IRS wants to seize the land

[49:19] they're going to seize it we're going to lose it either way if that's what

[49:22] happens uh and you know there's there's no negotiating tactic or leverage that

[49:30] putting that land back in the PSA and away from us is going to protect that

[49:35] land uh you know if if we don't have the buy in from the other partners and so I

[49:42] don't really see the the land as being a negotiating leveraging tool uh to us

[49:49] coming up with a plan a legal plan that says we will all share in the liability

[49:58] uh in in a in a legal document because it's not built into the current IG G.

[50:02] It's not built into the previous IGA and so we do need some sort of document to

[50:08] that end. I just didn't think that in the way of moving forward with our

[50:12] recreational plans and the things that we want to do with the park, maintaining

[50:16] and improving the parks uh that we made this step. And uh if the county has not

[50:23] signed uh the deed for this and actually completed the transaction, uh I believe

[50:29] they would be willing to tap the brakes as you said and hold off on that if we

[50:34] asked them to. No rush necessarily. It doesn't do anything for them one way or

[50:38] the other. Um but I believe we can move forward and and uh get the relationship

[50:44] the uh the agreement that we need you know to put in and uh in legal terms

[50:51] uh how this uh liability will be taken care of and and that was just kind of my

[50:57] my state. I agree with you 100%, you know, but I believe in putting it in

[51:02] writing, you know, um I trust them and everything too, but we probably need to

[51:08] uh change the wording in the IG to >> 100% agree, but I just I don't see that

[51:15] transferring the land back and forth, you know, really

[51:19] we can we can continue to go the route that we're going. You know, it's not

[51:24] going to pay the bill IRS. is still going to be um a problem. But what I

[51:30] wanted to do was to make sure that the county and the cities uh have a shared

[51:36] interest in what's going to be paid back. That's all.

[51:41] » Yes, sir. Um

[51:47] I'd like to make a motion to not resend our resolution.

[51:53] So, I don't know if that's Can we do that in that order or make a motion to

[51:57] add it to the Well, >> I think the agenda item was framed as

[52:03] it's going to be a motion to resend it. So, I think you could just take no

[52:07] action if >> just take no action for now and we could

[52:10] reconvene at a different meeting if needed on this, but I do think we need

[52:14] to. >> Well, I guess the proper thing would be

[52:16] to ask if there is a a motion to uh to resend

[52:23] I'd like to make a motion that we resend the resolution and quick claim deed for

[52:28] transfer of ownership regarding St. Mary's Civic Park and Lake St. Mary's

[52:34] Camden County Public Service Authority. >> Okay. Is there a second?

[52:40] » Vote. >> Second. Okay. So, is there any other

[52:44] discussion? >> I'd like to ask Mr. Blackerby if he will

[52:50] advise us on this since he knows a lot more about this than we do.

[52:56] » Well, one thing that I I totally agree with is there's there's not a right or

[53:00] wrong answer here. Um there are several ways it could play out with the lean

[53:06] being in place. I mean hopefully uh the PSA stays around for a long time

[53:12] and is fully funded and pays off the lean and that's hopefully what happens

[53:17] and I would assume that's the most likely outcome. uh if you take take the

[53:22] transfer of the ownership and for whatever reason the PSA isn't fully

[53:26] funded in the future to pay that lean off then we're holding the property

[53:31] subject to it to the lean that is and you could have a situation

[53:36] maybe very unlikely but you could have a situation where the IRS comes looking to

[53:39] get paid and says we're going to levy on that property and chooses that one to be

[53:44] the the target of their levy. Uh on the flip side, if you if you leave it

[53:50] in the ownership of the PSA and the PSA doesn't have funding to

[53:55] continue paying it, then you're still not in a good situation

[53:59] because then you've got a PSA board that you've only got two members on and they

[54:04] could decide, you know what, we don't have the money to pay the IRS. We're

[54:07] just going to give them the property in lie of paying it. That's a possibility

[54:10] as well. So there are multiple bad outcomes and there's hopefully a good

[54:16] outcome that that that's going to happen which is that the PSA remains funded and

[54:20] pays this off. But it's it's really a matter of your comfort level I guess um

[54:25] in terms of how to move forward in your relationship with the other cities and

[54:29] the county. Uh I do think it's imperative and and this has been said

[54:33] multiple times. We do need to address this in the intergovernmental agreement

[54:36] going forward. And we need to include a provision that clearly provides that the

[54:40] the liabilities and the debts of the PSA are jointly shared in in in accordance

[54:46] with the percentages by which we're funding the PSA and that that is an

[54:50] obligation that will survive the intergovernmental agreement because

[54:53] right now we don't have that in place at all.

[54:55] » Right. And we do not have an inter our intergovernmental agreement has expired.

[55:00] Is that correct? >> That is correct. But even even if we add

[55:03] it, it wouldn't speak specifically to this because even under that

[55:06] intergovernmental agreement, any city or the county could withdraw upon 90 days

[55:11] notice. And it stated that the funding obligation ceased upon that 90th day. So

[55:17] that's got to be addressed and and we're already address we're already trying to

[55:20] to you know hammer out a new intergovernmental agreement and still

[55:23] trying to figure out how Woodbine will fit into that if at all. But while we're

[55:29] while we're working on that, I think we need to address this as well in the new

[55:32] intergovernment. >> So I would like to change my motion. Let

[55:37] me withdraw the motion that I just made and change it to

[55:45] um based on the advice that we've had that we

[55:51] we can vote on resending. But I think that

[55:55] » Hold on one second. I I just want to say Miss Ke because we do have a motion on

[55:59] the floor here. >> We have to vote on it.

[56:01] » Second. Yeah. >> Okay. I'd like to withdraw my motion.

[56:04] » Second. >> I'll withdraw my second.

[56:06] » Okay. So, you have to withdraw your second.

[56:08] » Okay. So, the original motion has been uh withdrawn and seconded. And do we

[56:13] need to vote on that withdrawal or >> or is it just withdrawn? Okay.

[56:18] » And the reason I'm doing that is the risk of not owning the property.

[56:26] and the ultimate need for the IRS to seize it and us not having control of

[56:35] the park. But I am uh I think that this was a

[56:41] discussion that we should have had and the council should have been informed

[56:47] all council members that there was excuse me in fact a very large lean on

[56:55] the property before we were asked to vote on whether or not to transfer it.

[57:01] So, I think the discussion has been fruitful in that respect and I

[57:06] appreciate everybody's thoughts on it.

[57:11] » So, we're back to I don't know if that was a new motion or if we're just back.

[57:17] » There is no motion. >> So,

[57:20] » okay. Yeah. >> So, for lack of a motion and second, the

[57:25] item I fails on no action. >> There was no motion.

[57:31] That's what I said with the lack of for the lack of motion.

[57:36] » Okay. Announcement of our calendar. M. >> Yes, sir. On Wednesday, October the 8th,

[57:43] there is Bobby. Are you still having a 10:00 a.m. or is that the one you moved?

[57:48] You still having it? Okay. There will be a pre-bid for St. Mary's Road

[57:53] Intersection Improvement Project, Espanob Boulevard here in Council

[57:56] Chambers. And again, that's 10:00 a.m. on Wednesday, October the 8th. And DAS

[58:02] on Development Authority of St. Mary's has moved their meeting to October the

[58:05] 8th at 5:00 p.m. in the Main Street office. On Thursday, October the 9th in

[58:11] the Main Street office at 9:30, we'll have the Orange Hall Management

[58:13] Committee meeting. Again, that will be in Main Street, followed by the 5:00

[58:17] p.m. St. Mary's Inter Coastal Gateway meeting in Main Street as well. And on

[58:22] Monday, October the 13th at 8:30 a.m. in Main Street, the Downtown Development

[58:26] Authority meeting. On Tuesday, October the 14th, there's a 5:30m planning

[58:31] commission meeting. And also, the planning commission has added a work

[58:34] session on that day. Is it at 4:30, Jamie? 4:30 work session on that day. On

[58:39] Thursday, October the 16th, tonight, which will be which has already been

[58:44] sent by our finance director. That will be the first two of the public hearings

[58:49] on the tax increase regarding the military. Again, that will be Thursday,

[58:52] October the 16th here in council chambers at 10:00 a.m. and again at 6:00

[58:57] p.m. On Friday, October the 17th at 9:00, we will have St. Mary's Municipal

[59:03] Court Trials followed by the 11:00 a.m. ple arraignments. And on Monday, October

[59:08] the 20th, also sent out today by the finance director, will be a 5:00 PM

[59:14] public hearing on the military followed by the 6:00 p.m. city council meeting.

[59:19] Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mayor. All right, council member comments.

[59:26] Um, I just want to I didn't get a chance to

[59:30] talk to my cousin back there with all that Steeler gear on, but the Jaguars

[59:37] will be playing tonight at 8:00. So, you need to go home and put on your teal.

[59:45] Um, we won't be having another meeting

[59:49] before then. So, uh, you know, our first Friday has been rebranded to a live

[59:54] after 5. Uh, it's, you know, and it's not first Friday anymore because it

[1:00:00] might not be on the first Friday, which is the case this month. So, in an effort

[1:00:03] not to compete against other local activities, especially Wildcat football,

[1:00:07] uh, they're able to make this event flexible and move the dates. And it's

[1:00:10] been a great event. They've actually enhanced it. I think we're on about our

[1:00:14] fifth month, our fifth month, I believe, or sixth somewhere in there where we've

[1:00:18] had increased vendor activity, music, live music, bands. It's just a good

[1:00:23] time. There's kids activities. So, uh, if you haven't made one, please do check

[1:00:27] it out. It'll be October 17th this month. It'll be the 17th for Live After

[1:00:31] 5 starts at 5:00 p.m. >> I heard nothing but good things about

[1:00:35] it. >> Check it out. Come on, baby.

[1:00:37] » I've been there, but I mean, everybody's talking good about it.

[1:00:42] Anyone else? Yes, I'd like to thank the city staff

[1:00:48] uh volunteers and the Quanians for the seafood festival in St. Mary's. It was

[1:00:55] uh very very well received and I know the rock shrimp was well received and uh

[1:01:03] it was a pleasant treat having rock shrimp back for the first time in over

[1:01:09] 10 years. Well, thanks Andler.

[1:01:16] Anyone else? Okay. Um, and I'll just uh echo uh Mr.

[1:01:24] Rassy's sentiments about the city staff and uh you know it it and the Quanians.

[1:01:29] It takes uh takes a lot of people to put on these festivals and a lot of hard

[1:01:33] work that go behind the scenes from from everyone. And uh even though the day

[1:01:38] started out a little shaky with some rain, we ended up with a beautiful day

[1:01:41] and uh it was a great festival and I hope you had time to come down and check

[1:01:45] it out. And if not, uh first Saturday in October next year, you know, we'll be

[1:01:50] right back here again for that. So, uh please join us.

[1:01:54] » Mayor Mard. >> Yes, ma'am.

[1:01:55] » I do apologize. Um the scarecrow stroll, Angela, did you want us to announce that

[1:01:59] the date of the scarecrow stroll? Yeah.

[1:02:09] » October 26 from 1 to 5. >> The microphone's not on. October 26 from

[1:02:15] 1 to 5 is just air. >> And it's on our Facebook page. They can

[1:02:20] call if they have questions. 8824000. >> It's on the uh the tourism Facebook page

[1:02:26] and 8824000. You can call if you have questions.

[1:02:29] visit stries.com. Thank you, Angel.

[1:02:34] All right, ms. Cler concise have a u motion to adjurnn. So move

[1:02:41] » second. >> And all those in favor?

[1:02:43] » I when have we ever had a meeting? Finish

[1:02:47] this early. >> I know.

[1:02:49] » Let's go home and eat dinner. >> Jackpot party.

2025 10 06 City Council Mtg

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