Agenda
[5:50]
Approval of the March 9, 2026 City Commission Meeting Minutes
[28:17]
Installation of Elected Officials
[43:20]
Approval of the Agenda
[45:19]
Country Thunder Update
[1:50:03]
University of Florida Levin College of Law Environmental and Community Development Clinic on the legal feasibility of a Parking-Based Assessment for Street Infrastructure Funding
[2:17:05]
Boca Ciega Drive Reconstruction Design Direction
[2:40:24]
Permit Process Update
[3:44:04]
Audience Comments
[4:04:09]
Consent
[4:25:25]
Resolution 2026-07: Establishing and Amending Public Parking Fees
[4:53:36]
Items for Discussion
Transcript
SOURCE TRANSCRIPT
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[4:27]
The beach to order
today is Tuesday.
[4:30]
It is March 24, 2026.
[4:32]
It is 6 o'clock PM.
[4:34]
Let's stand for the
Pledge of Allegiance.
[4:38]
I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America,
[4:43]
and to the Republic
for which it stands.
[4:46]
One nation under
God, indivisible,
[4:49]
with liberty and
justice for all.
[4:55]
City clerk.
[4:55]
If you'll please do a roll call.
[4:57]
Vice mayor Marriott here.
[4:59]
Commissioner Robinson here.
[5:01]
Commissioner Resnick here.
[5:02]
Commissioner Maldonado here.
[5:04]
And Mayor Petrilla here.
[5:06]
We have a quorum.
[5:07]
Thank you.
[5:08]
First item on the agenda is
the approval of the March
[5:11]
nine minutes.
[5:15]
I have a question about those.
[5:17]
Sure and maybe for
help with clarification
[5:21]
from city attorney.
[5:22]
Just because we've
had a lot of emails
[5:27]
and I've had calls about the
motion for ordinance 2020 6-03.
[5:35]
I needed clarification
as to what the motion was
[5:39]
and what was drawn, because
I feel what's written
[5:43]
is not what I voted for.
[5:44]
So I just wanted
some clarification.
[5:47]
We've distributed
the closed caption
[5:50]
from the transcription of the
video stream of the meeting.
[5:55]
And it states, is
there a motion.
[5:58]
Make the motion to adopt with
modification of 40 foot setback
[6:01]
from dwellings, unless variance
and 500 separate 500 separation
[6:06]
requirements were possible
and technically feasible
[6:09]
without limiting communication
services for the final reading
[6:12]
of ordinance 2020 603.
[6:16]
And then I said, did you want to
include the additional language
[6:19]
about the negotiation period.
[6:21]
Everything that's in the citizen
proposal here said, yes, yes.
[6:25]
Because again, this goes to
more than just ground equipment.
[6:29]
Now this is all supporting
structures and poles
[6:32]
and we can do that
as a subsection.
[6:34]
It will be a new subsection
for to take their 3
[6:37]
and their entire
three paragraphs
[6:39]
and make that a new subsection.
[6:41]
Absolutely yep.
[6:42]
And we'll add in the
500 where possible
[6:44]
and technically feasible
without impacting coverage.
[6:47]
Is that the final
version of the motion.
[6:49]
Yes it is.
[6:50]
I'll second to the clerk.
[6:52]
Commissioner Maldonado.
[6:53]
Yes vice mayor Mariano.
[6:55]
Commissioner Robinson.
[6:56]
Yes commissioner.
[6:57]
Resnick yes.
[6:58]
Mayor patella.
[6:59]
Yes and then the motion carries.
[7:02]
And I think that
the motion maker.
[7:08]
Can discuss the
motion that he made.
[7:11]
He did say variance.
[7:13]
And I was trying to.
[7:16]
Point out that neither the
citizens nor staff was going
[7:19]
for variance anymore because
it involved a public meeting,
[7:22]
public hearing, which
are not allowed,
[7:24]
and public hearing and
public meeting to me
[7:26]
mean the same thing.
[7:28]
So I took that as yes,
he would substitute
[7:30]
the negotiation period that
both the citizen and the staff
[7:32]
had in there.
[7:34]
And so that's what we took
to prepare the ordinance.
[7:39]
Did you want to
change the minutes
[7:41]
to reflect this exact language.
[7:43]
And I think that
would be appropriate.
[7:45]
We could attach
this to the minutes
[7:47]
or we could put this
in the minutes itself.
[7:50]
So let me ask you, city attorney
or Commissioner to could clarify
[7:57]
in that presentation, I
think the words I agree,
[8:01]
the negotiation that I clearly
remember that we stated that one
[8:06]
of the things that is coming
up is whether it was mandatory
[8:10]
or not.
[8:11]
So if we take this language,
how it's written here,
[8:15]
that means we're removing
whether it's mandatory
[8:19]
or encourage that we would just
be saying the modification of 40
[8:23]
foot setback from dwellings and
less variance in 500 separation.
[8:27]
Correct the staff
proposal always had
[8:29]
encourage for both sections.
[8:32]
The citizens proposal
was mandatory.
[8:35]
Both Verizon and
AT&T wrote letters
[8:38]
and stated that mandatory is
preempted by state statutes.
[8:41]
And that's why we're
using the word encourage.
[8:43]
So it would be
defensible in court.
[8:47]
But there was nothing in
the motion to say mandatory.
[8:50]
And they were working off
exhibit A, which is the staff
[8:53]
alternative language,
changing feet to 40
[8:56]
and then adding in
500 as a criteria.
[9:00]
Number four in the
second section.
[9:05]
In the presentation, what I
saw was that it was mandatory.
[9:11]
Now I know in the wording
we're not using it.
[9:14]
So if we exclude
mandatory and exclude,
[9:18]
just as it's written right
here with a closed caption,
[9:20]
if we remove mandatory
or encourage then
[9:25]
it's just 40 setback.
[9:29]
So in the citizens proposal
they were proposing mandatory.
[9:32]
The citizens presentation
said mandatory staff
[9:35]
has never said mandatory.
[9:36]
It's been our position
that would violate state
[9:38]
law, the state preemption.
[9:40]
So we use the word
encourage instead.
[9:43]
So we took this as saying
taking the feet and the staff
[9:47]
recommendation, which already
had the word encourage,
[9:49]
and changing it to 40 and
adding the 500 foot separation
[9:53]
requirement to the
second part, and then
[9:57]
adding the negotiation
period that we
[9:58]
both had in our proposals.
[10:00]
But it was my
understanding we were
[10:02]
following the staff
language and not
[10:05]
adopting the citizen proposal.
[10:09]
If we want to change
that, we could,
[10:11]
but we would have to go through
the notice and the readings
[10:15]
and that can be done.
[10:18]
Commissioner Maldonado.
[10:20]
Are you done.
[10:21]
Yes OK.
[10:22]
So yeah.
[10:22]
So thank you.
[10:23]
I do need to make two
scrivener's errors adjustments.
[10:26]
The first would be to
follow the transcripts
[10:29]
and remove the
word where it says
[10:32]
where technically feasible
before a 40 foot setback.
[10:37]
I'd like to substitute
the word variance
[10:42]
with a negotiation period
per the citizen's request.
[10:45]
Now that we know.
[10:46]
And thank you for
clarifying that, sir.
[10:49]
And then at the very end, we
need to add, after the 500 foot
[10:56]
separation requirements,
where possibly where possible
[11:00]
and technically feasible without
limiting communication services.
[11:04]
Again, that was for my motion.
[11:05]
That's for the transcripts.
[11:06]
I want to be
absolutely transparent
[11:09]
that that's what was said.
[11:11]
So thank you.
[11:13]
If you make that motion
then we would get a second
[11:15]
and then we would
vote on the change.
[11:22]
Do we have a concurrence.
[11:23]
I mean, is that required or
are you going to make a motion.
[11:26]
Well, I think in this case,
you should make a motion
[11:28]
and have a second and then do
a roll call just because it's
[11:30]
a matter of public importance.
[11:32]
You meant mandatory.
[11:36]
Mandatory point of order.
[11:39]
Point of order, Chair.
[11:42]
I'm sorry, sir.
[11:43]
You are out of order.
[11:45]
I don't care.
[11:46]
I want to put this.
[11:47]
This is the proof that
he meant mandatory.
[11:49]
It's the proof right here, sir.
[11:50]
You're out of order.
[11:52]
I have the proof.
[11:53]
Get back.
[11:53]
We're now playing it
like that tonight.
[11:55]
You understand.
[11:55]
I have to prove.
[11:56]
Do you understand me.
[11:57]
We're not doing it like that.
[11:58]
We have to prove that.
[11:58]
Sit down.
[12:00]
Are you lying, John.
[12:02]
You're a liar, John.
[12:03]
Just admit you're a liar.
[12:05]
All of us know you
were mandatory.
[12:07]
Point of order.
[12:08]
I have to prove you can
get him to be quiet.
[12:11]
By all means.
[12:13]
I see your intent.
[12:15]
Is there a motion.
[12:17]
Make the motion to adopt with
modification of 40 foot setback
[12:25]
from dwellings.
[12:26]
Unless a negotiation period
and separation requirements.
[12:33]
Where possible and technically
feasible without limiting
[12:36]
communication services.
[12:40]
And did you have the 500
foot separation requirements.
[12:43]
Did you say that I
might have missed it.
[12:45]
I did, but I can
restate it if necessary.
[12:47]
If you could just want to make
sure it's clear this time.
[12:49]
Make the motion to adopt with
modification of 40 foot setback
[12:54]
from dwellings.
[12:55]
Unless a negotiation period
and 500 separation requirements
[13:01]
where possible and technically
feasible without limiting
[13:04]
communication services.
[13:09]
Second, to be clear, this is
we'll make sure we understand
[13:13]
what we're voting on.
[13:15]
You are amending the
minutes, not the ordinance.
[13:18]
Correct OK.
[13:21]
It wasn't clear.
[13:22]
That's why.
[13:23]
That's correct.
[13:26]
Do you want to take public
comment before we do roll call.
[13:32]
City clerk.
[13:32]
Do we have any public comment.
[13:35]
Lauren Jones, please state your
name and address for the record.
[13:42]
Lauren I mean, I just
don't understand.
[13:51]
I don't understand any of this.
[13:52]
Ralph how could you just
change the language when
[13:55]
it's not what they voted on.
[13:57]
Clearly, for people sitting up
here did not vote in courage.
[14:01]
And whether John wants to say it
or not, he voted based I have.
[14:05]
Are you showing this.
[14:09]
I believe it was
clear that I made
[14:10]
the motion based on the
presentation of my attorney.
[14:14]
The final reading, with
modifications, 40 foot setback
[14:18]
from property was mandatory.
[14:21]
John, why aren't you
saying that to the crowd.
[14:23]
Why aren't you saying
that to the residents.
[14:26]
This is what you meant.
[14:27]
This is what you
made the motion on.
[14:28]
This is what the three
other people voted on.
[14:31]
And, Ralph, how do you
change the language.
[14:33]
How are you getting
away with that.
[14:35]
I normally don't answer these.
[14:36]
But we're going by the
exact verbatim transcript
[14:38]
of the meeting.
[14:39]
And that's what's being
adopted as the motion.
[14:42]
Seconded you put the city
encourages a 40 foot setback.
[14:46]
That's not verbatim of what John
said as we just discussed here.
[14:50]
You put city strongly
encourages a 40 foot setback.
[14:53]
That is not anywhere
close to what John said.
[14:56]
I did not add that
was in the exhibit
[14:58]
a going into the
meeting, and it came
[15:00]
out of the meeting unchanged.
[15:03]
No, that wasn't going into
that was in the meeting.
[15:05]
That was staff
alternative version.
[15:08]
And it in there.
[15:09]
And I'm not going to
say anything more.
[15:10]
I'm going to let you speak
for your three minutes.
[15:12]
You kept I don't answer
questions during public comment.
[15:15]
Thanks can I talk.
[15:17]
You kept the staff language.
[15:19]
It was supposed to change over
to the residents language.
[15:23]
Yes, it was, he admits.
[15:25]
I have letters upon
letters of John and Betty,
[15:28]
and I talked to verbally, Lisa,
that their intent was mandatory.
[15:34]
We go back to deny that
because we go by their words
[15:36]
and not what might be in their
head if they don't say it.
[15:38]
You have to say it.
[15:39]
Words were 40 foot setback
unless variance 40 foot setback.
[15:43]
How do you get that.
[15:44]
Strongly encouraged
is included in that.
[15:47]
Where does that come from.
[15:49]
Does it just fall
out of thin air.
[15:53]
He said 40 foot setback
unless variance and his intent
[15:57]
was mandatory.
[15:57]
He's not saying that now, but I
have it in writing many letters.
[16:02]
OK where does the strongly
encourage fall out of thin air.
[16:06]
How do you do that.
[16:08]
Is anyone happy that
our city attorney
[16:10]
just put in his own language.
[16:13]
No we should be outraged.
[16:17]
We should be outraged.
[16:20]
And, Francis, I'm sorry.
[16:22]
You said to me verbatim
several times that you go along
[16:26]
and you never question what
the city attorney says.
[16:29]
Is that a way to
manage a city that you
[16:32]
just blindly follow your staff.
[16:35]
What he's doing and what his
law firm is doing is not OK.
[16:39]
The ordinance doesn't
reflect the minutes,
[16:42]
and the minutes of
two weeks ago does
[16:44]
not reflect the
motion and the votes
[16:48]
that these four people made.
[16:50]
You put words in their mouth.
[16:52]
They should be outraged.
[16:54]
We're outraged for your time.
[16:58]
City clerk Ron Vigneault. If
you please, state your name
[17:04]
and address for the record.
[17:08]
Yeah Ronald Vigneault
from pass-a-grille.
[17:11]
All right.
[17:11]
So I'm not going to
tolerate any corruptions.
[17:14]
OK I come from Canada.
[17:15]
The whole country of
Canada is all corrupt.
[17:18]
This is not going to happen
in my new country OK.
[17:21]
This country is about freedom.
[17:23]
It's about integrity.
[17:25]
And, John, you
have no integrity.
[17:28]
You're lying.
[17:29]
Excuse me, sir.
[17:29]
You wrote that letter, sir.
[17:31]
Point of order, sir.
[17:32]
Point of order.
[17:32]
What is that.
[17:33]
Personal attacks.
[17:34]
When you signed up,
when you signed up
[17:38]
on the back of the
card, it clearly
[17:40]
shows you will not participate
in personal attacks.
[17:44]
So you may say
whatever you want,
[17:46]
but you're going to limit
yourself to personal attacks.
[17:48]
OK, I'm not going to
do a personal attack,
[17:50]
but look on the board, the
media, all the media tonight
[17:54]
here.
[17:55]
Look, that's a letter that was
written by John to the lawyer.
[18:00]
Ralph, that letter says
mandatory, not encouraged.
[18:06]
OK, we have that document.
[18:08]
I want the media
to cover all this.
[18:10]
This is corruptions
from our city.
[18:13]
And tonight we're changing.
[18:15]
We're changing the people.
[18:16]
But what happened that night
two weeks ago is very clear.
[18:22]
John was very clear.
[18:24]
He wrote in a letter
to the lawyer.
[18:26]
He was very clear on
what he was going on.
[18:29]
Adrienne was clear.
[18:30]
Lisa was clear.
[18:31]
And the proof is
that Karen voted
[18:35]
against it because
she was thinking
[18:37]
there was the word mandatory.
[18:38]
She didn't want mandatory.
[18:40]
She voted against it.
[18:41]
That's the proof right there.
[18:43]
And, Ralph what you're doing.
[18:45]
You're changing the language.
[18:47]
Your job is you're
again, you're starting
[18:51]
with the personal attacks.
[18:52]
OK well what I mean.
[18:54]
I have to say what the fact.
[18:56]
Those are facts, Ralph.
[18:57]
Your job is to execute.
[19:00]
This These people decide.
[19:02]
She didn't want it.
[19:04]
That's fine.
[19:04]
It's a free country.
[19:06]
She's allowed to do it.
[19:07]
But these people voted for it.
[19:08]
For it.
[19:09]
And damn right that
they voted for that.
[19:12]
You changed the
language in the minutes.
[19:14]
It's not there anywhere.
[19:16]
There's nowhere in the minute
that it says Anchorage.
[19:25]
Are you shaking your head for.
[19:26]
It's the truth.
[19:27]
So what's going on, Ralph.
[19:29]
I'm going to ask for a
public investigation on this
[19:31]
and I'm going to get it.
[19:33]
And, Ralph, I'm sorry
if you don't do the job,
[19:36]
you're not going to be
working for my city.
[19:38]
Let me read, taxpayer.
[19:40]
When you're done, I'll read
scandals and corruption
[19:44]
in my government.
[19:46]
OK, Ralph.
[19:47]
Go ahead.
[19:49]
Are you done.
[19:49]
Yeah listen to you.
[19:51]
I'll wait for your
time to end, and then
[19:53]
I'll read you the transcript.
[19:54]
OK well, let's make
this all very clear.
[19:57]
Everybody in this room, we
will not tolerate corruption
[20:02]
in our local government, OK.
[20:05]
This is very important that we
all stand up And we stop this.
[20:08]
Ralph is changing the
language of what was voted.
[20:11]
Thank you sir.
[20:13]
The exact language, if you
may indulge me because I've
[20:16]
been attacked personally.
[20:18]
The transcript.
[20:19]
The transcript.
[20:20]
You may sit down, sir.
[20:21]
Thank you.
[20:24]
The exact language was.
[20:25]
Is there a motion.
[20:27]
Make the motion to adopt with
modification of 40 foot setback
[20:30]
from dwellings
and less variance,
[20:32]
and a 500 separation
requirements
[20:34]
were possible and
technically feasible
[20:36]
without limiting communication
services for the final reading
[20:40]
of ordinance 2020 603.
[20:42]
Did you want to include
the additional language
[20:44]
about the negotiation period.
[20:46]
That's in the citizen
proposal here.
[20:48]
Yeah, yeah.
[20:49]
Because again, this goes to
more than just ground equipment.
[20:52]
Now, now this is all supporting
structures and poles.
[20:55]
And we can do that
as a subsection.
[20:57]
It will be a new subsection for
to take their three number 3
[21:01]
and then entire
number three paragraph
[21:03]
and make that a new subsection.
[21:05]
Absolutely yep.
[21:06]
And we'll add in
the 500 whenever
[21:08]
possible and technically
feasible without impacting
[21:11]
coverage.
[21:12]
That was commissioner
Maldonado's exact words.
[21:15]
Is this the final
version of the motion.
[21:17]
Yes it is.
[21:17]
I'll second to the clerk, and
the motion was then voted upon
[21:20]
and carried.
[21:21]
So there's the exact words
that we have to go by.
[21:24]
And that's the facts.
[21:30]
Thank you, sir.
[21:31]
City clerk.
[21:32]
Rutta Hans.
[21:40]
Can you please state your name
and address for the record.
[21:45]
I've got the transcript here.
[21:49]
There This goes here.
[21:54]
Hans 77, 11;14 away.
[21:59]
And let me see if
I've got this right.
[22:11]
OK, so let me.
[22:13]
Here's the verbatim
transcript, please.
[22:16]
Oh, here's a
verbatim transcript.
[22:19]
Over here, which you've
just heard a bunch of times.
[22:21]
My point that I wanted
to make is nowhere
[22:24]
in this transcript did anybody
use the word recommended at all.
[22:31]
The word recommended is
a material alteration
[22:34]
to what was voted on.
[22:35]
So the city staff should not
be adding made up language
[22:39]
into an ordinance different from
what the commission voted on.
[22:43]
And if you look at this
one part in the transcript,
[22:46]
it's very clear where it
says everything that is
[22:50]
in the citizens proposal here.
[22:52]
And Commissioner
Maldonado said yes.
[22:57]
And then they discussed
that a little bit further.
[23:01]
So based on that transcript,
any reasonable person
[23:04]
would conclude the motion
approved by the commissioners
[23:07]
reflected everything
that is in the citizens
[23:11]
proposal as intended,
specifically,
[23:14]
a mandatory 40 foot setback.
[23:16]
That's what the
citizens proposal was,
[23:18]
a mandatory 40 foot setback.
[23:21]
Nowhere did we ever see the
word encouraged over here.
[23:25]
And that was in the final
reading of the ordinance.
[23:28]
And again, Commissioner
Marriott, she was very clear
[23:31]
why she voted no on this
ordinance because of
[23:34]
the mandatory 40 foot setback.
[23:36]
She was afraid that went
against Florida law.
[23:38]
Her point is well taken.
[23:40]
And there was discussion about
not wanting to have a lawsuit
[23:43]
with the telecom company.
[23:45]
Telecom company.
[23:47]
So if this ordinance
stays written incorrectly.
[23:50]
Now, this exposes the city
to even more liability.
[23:54]
A homeowner with a
multimillion dollar property
[23:57]
can now claim that
the 5 grams tower
[23:59]
reduced their property value.
[24:01]
And they're going to
come and sue the city
[24:03]
because you don't have
the proper ordinance
[24:06]
written on the books.
[24:08]
And having the word
recommended offers
[24:11]
no real protection on this
in any way, shape, or form.
[24:15]
So if the city keeps the
language they voted on,
[24:18]
they could find room
to reasonably negotiate
[24:22]
with telecom companies
offer a different place
[24:25]
to put something.
[24:27]
If it's within 40, they could
put it in front of a business
[24:31]
where these towers would
not be damaging to somebody
[24:34]
sleeping there at night, or
lower their property values.
[24:37]
But if we leave
it as recommended
[24:41]
and we intended to
say something else,
[24:44]
now you're opening yourself
up to even more lawsuits.
[24:46]
And that would be
from the residents.
[24:49]
That's all.
[24:55]
Thank you.
[24:56]
Deborah Schockner.
[25:03]
If you'll please state your
name and address for the record.
[25:07]
Good evening, Deborah Schockner.
[25:09]
I'll drive in ST ST Pete Beach.
[25:12]
I think we need to realign
with what the residents stated,
[25:16]
because people who
left here heard that,
[25:19]
and many people heard that
recommendation means nothing
[25:23]
to the telephone companies.
[25:25]
They'll just do
whatever they want.
[25:29]
I would city right now
is fully covered with G5.
[25:34]
The entire city.
[25:35]
We do not need
even one more pole.
[25:39]
Here's the problem.
[25:40]
These poles can fall
on somebody's house.
[25:42]
And when you don't have a
proper setback, it's one man.
[25:46]
It's going to hit him
while he's sleeping.
[25:48]
God forbid.
[25:51]
The easements are
owned by the residents,
[25:54]
but they're allowed by
ST Pete Beach as a right
[25:57]
for utility providers.
[25:59]
But we own the land,
and I understand
[26:02]
that we are allowed to maybe
make some verifications
[26:08]
that people will be safe.
[26:10]
And I've driven through
some other cities.
[26:12]
They don't have nearly as many
G5's power poles as we do.
[26:19]
I've asked residents who've
lived in other cities,
[26:22]
they have said the same thing.
[26:24]
So why the concentration
in ST Pete Beach
[26:27]
and why the threat to
homeowner's property liability.
[26:31]
I don't think telecom
company is going to give them
[26:34]
the difference between
insurance, because that's now
[26:37]
sitting on their property,
and it's possible
[26:39]
that insurance
will not even cover
[26:41]
it unless you have a writer.
[26:44]
So these are very, very serious
questions we need to answer.
[26:48]
And quite frankly, it's about
protecting the residents.
[26:51]
Thank you.
[26:53]
Thank you, city clerk.
[26:55]
I have no further
comments on this item.
[26:57]
Thank you.
[27:00]
We have a motion and a second.
[27:01]
City clerk, if you'll
please do a roll call.
[27:04]
Vice mayor.
[27:04]
Marriott yes, Commissioner.
[27:06]
Robinson yes, Commissioner.
[27:09]
Yes, Commissioner.
[27:10]
Maldonado yes, Mayor.
[27:12]
Petrilla yes.
[27:13]
The motion carries.
[27:14]
Thank you, city clerk.
[27:15]
Before we move on
to the installation
[27:17]
of elected officials.
[27:18]
Commissioner Resnick, do
you have any parting words.
[27:21]
Yes thank you.
[27:24]
I write them down.
[27:26]
I'm an emotional wreck.
[27:27]
So, Mayor, fellow
commissioners, staff,
[27:34]
and members of the community.
[27:40]
As this meeting marks my final
one serving on this commission,
[27:45]
I want to begin by
saying thank you.
[27:48]
Serving the city has been one of
the greatest honors of my life.
[27:57]
Local government
is where decisions
[27:59]
are closest to the people.
[28:01]
And during my time here,
I've had the privilege
[28:04]
of working alongside dedicated
colleagues, hardworking staff
[28:10]
and residents who are
deeply about our community,
[28:15]
even when we disagreed.
[28:17]
The shared goal was always the
same to make our city stronger,
[28:22]
safer, and more resilient.
[28:26]
I also want to recognize the
incredible work of the city
[28:29]
staff to our city manager,
Francis Robustelli and your team
[28:37]
work every day to turn
policy into action, often
[28:43]
behind the scenes and
without any recognition.
[28:47]
Your professionalism and
dedication to this community
[28:51]
are deeply appreciated.
[28:54]
This recent election was
decided by just 36 votes.
[29:00]
That's a powerful reminder
that every voice matters
[29:06]
that our community
is deeply engaged
[29:09]
in the future of this city.
[29:11]
It also reflects that many
residents are still navigating
[29:17]
real challenges,
especially as our community
[29:22]
continues recovering from the
storms like Hurricane Helene.
[29:26]
The work of rebuilding,
supporting families,
[29:28]
local businesses, our
community, our environment,
[29:32]
and strengthening our
resilience must remain
[29:36]
a top priority of this city.
[29:39]
I respect the outcome
of this election
[29:42]
and I congratulate those who
will continue the important work
[29:47]
moving forward.
[29:49]
I'm proud of what we have
accomplished together,
[29:51]
especially during the
difficult moments,
[29:54]
including the recovery efforts
following Hurricane Helene.
[29:58]
I'm especially grateful
to the first responders,
[30:02]
public services on the teams who
showed up day and night to keep
[30:08]
our communities safe and
help restore our city
[30:12]
when we needed it the most.
[30:14]
Public service is
never about one person.
[30:18]
It's about the collective effort
of a community that shows up,
[30:22]
works together, refuses
to give up on the place
[30:27]
we all call home.
[30:29]
I also want to thank
our city clerk,
[30:31]
Renee rose, and her city staff.
[30:35]
I see Jenny out
there for the work
[30:37]
you do to keep our
meetings, records
[30:39]
and elections running smoothly.
[30:43]
Your professionalism helps
ensure transparency and trust
[30:46]
in our local government.
[30:48]
To my fellow commissioners,
thank you for your service,
[30:52]
your commitment to the city,
and for the many thoughtful
[30:55]
discussions we've
shared along the way
[30:57]
to the residents who supported
me, who volunteered, called,
[31:03]
emailed, and shared your
ideas, thank you for trusting
[31:07]
me with your voice.
[31:09]
And to those who
disagreed with me,
[31:12]
I thank you to your
engagement, helped
[31:15]
strengthen our discussions and
ultimately made our city better.
[31:20]
While my time on this
commission may be ending,
[31:22]
my commitment to this
community is not.
[31:26]
I will always care
deeply about the city
[31:28]
and will continue
supporting the people
[31:30]
and ideas that move us forward.
[31:33]
Serving the city has truly been
the privilege of a lifetime,
[31:37]
and no election results
will ever take that away.
[31:41]
Thank you.
[31:53]
I did go up.
[31:55]
Yeah, you can wait if you want.
[31:58]
Thank you.
[32:00]
Thank you, Commissioner Resnick.
[32:09]
Yeah I want to thank
all of our residents.
[32:27]
I want to thank all
of our supporters
[32:30]
and more so than anyone else I
want to thank our city staff.
[32:34]
Could not have done what we've
done in the last three years
[32:36]
without your support,
without your help,
[32:38]
without your diligence,
the amount of work and time
[32:40]
that's been put in.
[32:43]
I'm not sure I could do your
job for what you guys get paid.
[32:45]
And I know some of you out
there always complain about how
[32:47]
much our city staff get paid.
[32:49]
By all means, come do the
job for what they get paid
[32:51]
and see how long you last.
[32:52]
I also want to thank
my commissioners,
[32:55]
Commissioner
Maldonado, Commissioner
[32:56]
Nikki Robinson and Marriott.
[32:58]
While we didn't
always see eye to eye,
[33:01]
oftentimes we didn't
see eye to eye.
[33:03]
I appreciate your
willingness to serve.
[33:06]
I thank you for that.
[33:07]
And for those of you
who are coming up next,
[33:09]
I also appreciate your
willingness to serve.
[33:12]
And with that, I'll say
thank you and goodbye.
[33:38]
Oh, yeah.
[33:38]
Sorry and I think my husband
is hiding in the back here, so.
[34:08]
If you want to stand next to
me, then you can face her.
[34:11]
There you go.
[34:13]
Please raise your right
hand and state after me.
[34:15]
State your name.
[34:17]
I do solemnly swear.
[34:19]
Do solemnly swear that I am a
full time resident that I am
[34:22]
a full time resident of
the city of ST Pete Beach,
[34:24]
the city of ST Pete Beach
that I will support, protect,
[34:28]
and defend the Constitution,
the Constitution and government
[34:32]
of the United States,
government of the United States
[34:35]
and of the state of Florida, and
of the state of Florida that I
[34:37]
am duly qualified, duly
qualified to hold office to hold
[34:41]
office under the
Constitution of the state,
[34:43]
under the Constitution
of the state
[34:44]
and that I will
well and faithfully
[34:46]
and that I will well and
faithfully perform the duties.
[34:49]
Perform the duties of
Commissioner of Commissioner
[34:51]
on which I am about to enter.
[34:54]
So help me God, so help me God.
[34:56]
Congratulations Thank you.
[35:15]
Sit next to me here
and hold it firmly.
[35:18]
Please raise your right
hand and state after me.
[35:20]
State your name.
[35:22]
Al Causey, do solemnly swear.
[35:24]
Do solemnly swear that I
am a full time resident
[35:27]
that I am a full time resident
of the city of ST Pete Beach,
[35:31]
of the city of ST Pete Beach
that I will support, protect,
[35:36]
and defend and defend the
Constitution and government,
[35:40]
the Constitution and government
of the United States,
[35:43]
of the United States and
of the state of Florida
[35:46]
and of the state of Florida,
that I am duly qualified,
[35:49]
that I am duly qualified to
hold office to hold office
[35:53]
under the Constitution, under
the Constitution of the state,
[35:56]
of the state and that I
will well and faithfully
[35:59]
and that I will well and
faithfully perform the duties.
[36:03]
Perform the duties of
Commissioner of Commissioner
[36:06]
on which I am about to enter
on which I am about to enter.
[36:10]
So help me God.
[36:11]
So help me God.
[36:12]
Congratulations OK.
[36:35]
OK please raise your right
hand and state after me.
[36:38]
State your name.
[36:39]
Scott Tate, do solemnly swear.
[36:40]
Do solemnly swear that I am
a full time resident that I'm
[36:43]
a full time resident of
the city of ST Pete Beach,
[36:45]
of the city of ST Pete
Beach that I will support
[36:47]
and that I will support,
protect, and defend and defend
[36:51]
the Constitution and government,
the Constitution and government
[36:53]
of the United States,
of the United States
[36:55]
and of the state of Florida
and of the state of Florida,
[36:57]
that I am duly qualified, that I
am duly qualified to hold office
[37:00]
to hold office under the
Constitution of the state,
[37:02]
under the Constitution
of the state
[37:04]
and that I will
well and faithfully
[37:06]
and that I will well and
faithfully perform the duties.
[37:08]
Perform the duties
of Mayor of Mayor
[37:10]
on which I'm about to enter
on which I'm about to enter.
[37:13]
So help me God.
[37:14]
So help me God.
[37:15]
Congratulations Thank you.
[37:33]
Yeah thank you.
[37:59]
Appreciate you.
[38:00]
Welcome, sir.
[38:00]
Thank you sir.
[38:08]
22 all right.
[38:19]
Before we begin with
the official agenda,
[38:21]
I want to give Al
the opportunity.
[38:23]
If you'd like to make
any remarks, please.
[38:25]
Thank you.
[38:26]
Mayor I just want to thank our
outgoing members of the board
[38:31]
here and all the hours
that they put in,
[38:34]
the great benefit that
they brought to this city.
[38:36]
And it was absolutely the most
historic of times in our city.
[38:41]
And going forward, we will
retire a lot of collaboration.
[38:46]
And that's what I'm
going to be all about.
[38:49]
I especially want to thank
everyone who helped me
[38:51]
along the way for
the last four months
[38:53]
and so many different things,
and especially my wife, Julie.
[38:58]
You did good, Julie.
[39:01]
So I think that's
about it for now.
[39:04]
We'll be in
neighborhoods every week.
[39:07]
We'll be doing a newsletter
weekly for status and updates,
[39:11]
and we'll be building action
groups of 2 and three people
[39:15]
to address each
problem that we have.
[39:21]
Thank you.
[39:21]
Al Aaron, I know you ran
unopposed, but any statement
[39:24]
you'd like to make.
[39:26]
No OK.
[39:27]
Thank you.
[39:27]
The opportunity.
[39:29]
All right, so listen, I want to
thank everybody for being here
[39:32]
tonight.
[39:34]
I want to start by thanking
Adrian for her service
[39:36]
of the community.
[39:38]
Anyone who serves selflessly
should be appreciated.
[39:41]
And I thank him for his service.
[39:44]
Betty, I thank you for
your service to district 3
[39:46]
and to the community at large.
[39:48]
I know as my
commissioner, you're
[39:50]
personally involved in
helping not only myself
[39:52]
but my community through
the storms of 2024.
[39:55]
And I thank you.
[39:58]
I'd like to welcome Karen
back to her leadership
[40:01]
role and continuing leadership
role for district one.
[40:04]
I'd like to welcome again, Al
as he steps into district three
[40:07]
commissioner, and I look forward
to working with John, Al,
[40:11]
Lisa and Karen as we
work as a commission
[40:15]
to improve ST Pete Beach.
[40:18]
Let's step back and
thank my family.
[40:19]
I'd like to thank my
parents, Ray and Judy Tate,
[40:22]
for raising me with ethics,
a love for family and a will
[40:27]
to serve your community.
[40:29]
I hope I haven't passed
that along to my children
[40:31]
Scott, Connor, and Casey.
[40:33]
I'm very proud of the young
adults that they've grown into.
[40:36]
I'd like to thank
my wife, Lynette.
[40:38]
You've been by my side through
it all, thick and thin, even.
[40:41]
Not just the ups and
Downs of campaign, but ups
[40:43]
and Downs of life.
[40:44]
And I love you and I
appreciate you for it
[40:45]
to the many friends who I had
before I started this campaign
[40:50]
trail and the many, many
more that I've gained
[40:52]
along this campaign
trail, I thank you
[40:54]
for putting your
trust in my vision
[40:56]
for a better ST Pete Beach.
[40:59]
I look forward to working
with the community
[41:00]
and this commission
and the city staff
[41:03]
to fulfill my campaign
promises, mostly
[41:06]
to make sure that our city's
policies and procedures are
[41:08]
aligned with helping us get
back all of our residents
[41:11]
back in their homes quickly, and
get our small businesses back up
[41:14]
and running.
[41:15]
It's been 18 months.
[41:16]
Let's get our community back
quickly back up and running.
[41:21]
I want to make sure to pursue
all the revenue opportunities
[41:23]
that we can from
both our County,
[41:25]
state, and federal partners
and that we use our revenues
[41:28]
efficiently, mostly to ensure
that we work on the resiliency
[41:32]
of our infrastructure.
[41:34]
We can't stop those
next storms from coming,
[41:36]
but we can make sure that
we're better prepared
[41:38]
and we recover quickly
next time they hit us.
[41:41]
Lastly, I look
forward to a return
[41:44]
not just to our
homes and businesses,
[41:47]
but to that vibrant
ST Pete Beach that's
[41:49]
been missing for a while.
[41:51]
We can do important
work as a city,
[41:54]
and we'll be up here doing
important work for years
[41:56]
to come.
[41:59]
We can agree on things.
[42:01]
We can disagree
agreeably, no matter what.
[42:04]
We all want a better
ST Pete Beach,
[42:07]
and even if we disagree
on how to get there,
[42:09]
we can do it in
agreeable fashion
[42:10]
and be respectful
with each other.
[42:12]
And while we're doing important
things, we can also have fun.
[42:17]
And so let's get back
to that community
[42:18]
that's laughs and celebrates.
[42:21]
I saw a little bit of it this
past weekend at on Quarry Avenue
[42:25]
for the ST Patrick's Day.
[42:26]
It was beautiful.
[42:28]
And let's have
more fun like that
[42:29]
while we do important
things and improve our city.
[42:31]
Thank you.
[42:42]
All right.
[42:43]
So now we get on to
the city business.
[42:45]
And I'll ask Francis and Ray
to just keep me honest on this,
[42:50]
but I believe we're going to
the approval of the agenda.
[42:54]
And so I'll ask
of the commission.
[42:56]
Are there any proposed
changes to the agenda.
[43:00]
I do have one for consent.
[43:03]
I'd like to pull for discussion
item B. There will be 6B.
[43:13]
Yes just a quick reminder that
the consent item, when pulled,
[43:19]
will just go directly
after the approval
[43:21]
of the consent calendar.
[43:24]
And we do have a staff
presentation ready for that.
[43:30]
So we'll pull it out of the
consent but still discuss it.
[43:33]
Post with the
staff presentation.
[43:35]
Consider the rest of the
consent calendar items
[43:38]
that works for me.
[43:40]
Any other changes
from the commission.
[43:42]
I've got one, sir.
[43:43]
I'd like to add ordinance
202603 communication
[43:48]
and small wireless
facilities design standards
[43:50]
to the discussion items.
[43:58]
OK Others.
[44:05]
Karen no.
[44:08]
Is there a motion to approve
the agenda, as amended.
[44:13]
I move to approve the
agenda, as amended.
[44:16]
I second.
[44:18]
City clerk, can you
please do the roll call.
[44:20]
Commissioner Robinson.
[44:21]
Yes, Commissioner.
[44:23]
Yes, Commissioner.
[44:24]
Maldonado yes, Mayor.
[44:25]
Tate yes.
[44:26]
Vice mayor.
[44:27]
Marion yes.
[44:30]
Motion carries.
[44:32]
OK thank you very much.
[44:35]
I understand we have some
presentations coming forward,
[44:38]
and I believe the first one
is Country Thunder update.
[44:47]
Good evening, Mayor
and commission,
[44:49]
Mandy Edmonds on the
resident services director.
[44:53]
Hi, Mandy.
[44:55]
We're going to go ahead and
go through a presentation
[44:57]
about our planning and
our permitting process
[45:00]
with Country Thunder.
[45:01]
The proposed event
happening at Tradewinds.
[45:04]
Before I get into
the presentation,
[45:06]
I would like to
introduce Kim Blevins.
[45:09]
She is the executive
director of Country Thunder.
[45:12]
She's going to
come up and explain
[45:14]
a little bit about
the event before I
[45:17]
get into the presentation.
[45:18]
So, Kim, thank you.
[45:25]
Thank you very much
to the commission.
[45:27]
And, Mr. mayor, thank you
for having me tonight.
[45:30]
And to all of the residents,
I that you're very interested
[45:34]
in what I have to say.
[45:36]
I'm not going to
speak very long.
[45:38]
I think that Mandy has a
really thorough presentation,
[45:41]
but I did want to
introduce myself.
[45:44]
I am the executive director of
Country Thunder music festivals.
[45:47]
And I wanted to give you a
little bit of information
[45:50]
about us as a business we've
been in business for 20 years,
[45:54]
since, well, 21 now,
since 2005, and we
[45:58]
run seven events in various
properties around North America.
[46:03]
So we've been doing
this a long time.
[46:06]
Every time we go into a
new location like this one,
[46:10]
we make an effort to get
involved with the community.
[46:13]
And that's one of the reasons
that I'm here tonight,
[46:15]
is to hear what everyone has
to say, to answer any questions
[46:20]
that people may have,
and just to start
[46:24]
becoming part of the
community of ST Pete Beach.
[46:27]
And as I've seen already,
it looks like it's a very
[46:33]
passionate group of people.
[46:35]
So I look forward to that.
[46:38]
And yeah, I just wanted to let
we do festivals in Arizona,
[46:43]
in Wisconsin, and then
we have four in Canada
[46:47]
as well as this one, we have
been doing festivals in Florida
[46:51]
since 2019.
[46:53]
We used to call Kissimmee home,
and we only left Kissimmee
[46:58]
because the property
that was hosting us
[47:01]
was going through some changes.
[47:04]
We were wiped out by
the same hurricane that
[47:07]
affected your community in 2024,
and had to look for a new home.
[47:12]
So last year, we approached the
Raymond James Stadium in Tampa,
[47:20]
and we held the festival there
in one of their parking lots
[47:23]
and great people to work with.
[47:26]
Very enjoyable experience.
[47:28]
But we found that there's
just so much going
[47:31]
through that
particular event space
[47:34]
that we couldn't call it home.
[47:36]
We didn't have enough of
an impact in that area.
[47:40]
So we started looking
for something new,
[47:42]
and we had been in
talks with the group
[47:46]
from Tradewinds when we
brought our festival to Tampa,
[47:50]
and we went to the
Bucs beach bash in 2025
[47:55]
and started looking
at the beautiful beach
[47:57]
and thought that this might be a
really nice place to call home.
[48:02]
We know that we've got
some issues that we
[48:05]
face that we have to address.
[48:07]
We know that we have to be
good stewards of the property,
[48:12]
and we're here to work
directly with your community,
[48:16]
not against you.
[48:17]
We would love to call this
community home for several years
[48:21]
to come.
[48:22]
And again, I'm open to meeting
and chatting with anyone
[48:27]
and I look forward to
Mandy's presentation.
[48:29]
Thank you very much.
[48:31]
Can we do questions now.
[48:33]
Thank you.
[48:34]
Yes sorry.
[48:35]
We have a question from
one of the commissioners.
[48:37]
Can you please come back up.
[48:38]
Thank you.
[48:39]
Sorry thank you.
[48:39]
That's OK.
[48:41]
How in.
[48:43]
Well, let me ask you, is what
other venues did you look
[48:45]
at other than ST Pete Beach.
[48:48]
We've looked at Fort Walton.
[48:51]
There were three
properties, and this one,
[48:53]
we thought the actual
space on the beach
[48:58]
would be conducive to
what our plans are,
[49:02]
the way we tend to put
together our properties
[49:06]
in very similar manner.
[49:08]
So we've got a setup
that we come in with.
[49:10]
And we thought that
this particular location
[49:13]
worked best for that setup.
[49:17]
And how and when
were you made aware
[49:19]
of the environmental
and Wildlife concerns.
[49:23]
Not until after we had
booked our talent for 2026.
[49:28]
So we found out that we were
within the first week of turtle
[49:32]
season after that
had happened again,
[49:37]
we don't want to
impede on any wildlife.
[49:41]
We don't want to
cause any issues.
[49:45]
But at this point,
with our talent booked,
[49:49]
it's difficult for us to
get out of those dates
[49:53]
without a very large penalty.
[49:54]
We would have to pay our artists
now to try and move those dates.
[49:58]
So we were hopeful that we
can get through this year,
[50:01]
move the dates to a different
date off of turtle season
[50:04]
and be able to move forward.
[50:06]
Are you realize there are other
wildlife than turtles, correct.
[50:11]
Correct I do, and
that those dates
[50:13]
are actually earlier than
turtle season correct I do, yep.
[50:16]
So what dates are you
looking for next year.
[50:18]
We haven't decided yet.
[50:19]
I thought I heard there
was something we've got.
[50:22]
Yeah, we've got a date
on the books for April,
[50:24]
the week of the 17th.
[50:26]
But that date was
chosen before we
[50:29]
became aware of the bird issue.
[50:31]
So now we're looking
at what we want
[50:33]
to do is get through this
year, then figure out
[50:36]
where when we can come back.
[50:40]
So you still pick the dates.
[50:41]
Regardless, you're still
going with those dates,
[50:43]
regardless of whether there's
a nesting season or not.
[50:48]
This particular one.
[50:49]
Yes Do you normally sell tickets
in advance of securing a venue
[50:55]
and that are non-refundable?
[50:57]
Pardon me.
[50:58]
Do you normally sell
concert or festival tickets.
[51:01]
Non-refundable tickets in
advance of securing a venue.
[51:06]
No so you do not have a
permit as it stands now.
[51:10]
Correct Correct.
[51:11]
But you have sold non-refundable
tickets for this venue.
[51:15]
Correct yep.
[51:16]
Do you have a plan B,
another backup venue.
[51:20]
We don't.
[51:20]
At this time, we're hopeful
that we'll get our permit.
[51:23]
Is that wise to not
have a backup venue.
[51:26]
Well, our show in Arizona,
we don't get our permit
[51:29]
approved until probably
two weeks before each show.
[51:33]
Do they have wildlife
issues in Arizona.
[51:35]
No, but they have other
issues that I mean,
[51:37]
the permitting
process in Arizona
[51:39]
is much more lengthy
than this process
[51:43]
and this is the first
community involvement.
[51:47]
We're six weeks out and
you've been talking about this
[51:50]
and secured your talents when
we actually have to secure
[51:54]
our talent a year in advance.
[51:56]
So you secured it
a year in advance,
[51:59]
knowing that this was going to
be the venue you chose, and this
[52:02]
is the first time
you've actually
[52:04]
done any community involvement.
[52:06]
No, not at all.
[52:07]
We've been working through
our partners at Tradewinds.
[52:09]
We've been letting them take
the lead on our permit process
[52:14]
because they actually
live in the community.
[52:16]
OK I don't believe from a
residential resident standpoint,
[52:20]
other than talking to the
city, that there has been
[52:24]
anything I mean,
the residents are
[52:26]
pretty much blindsided by this.
[52:29]
Well, we had hoped to
create some communication
[52:32]
and provide that
to the residents,
[52:34]
but we wanted to wait for the
permit process to be complete.
[52:38]
And if it doesn't go
you do not get a permit.
[52:42]
What happens then.
[52:44]
Then we have to look at
what we're going to do.
[52:47]
Because the concern too
is it's nesting season.
[52:50]
The problem being, as the
potentially they won't come back
[52:54]
or wildlife will not
come back if there's
[52:57]
a yearly situation where
it's during nesting season.
[53:01]
So you have the option
to move those dates
[53:04]
to non nesting season dates.
[53:06]
Yes right where if
you did that we'd
[53:08]
still get our turtles
and our skimmers
[53:11]
and our other
wildlife coming back.
[53:13]
And as well, you would get
your crowds coming back.
[53:16]
So it's kind of a win-win.
[53:17]
Whereas this really isn't a
win-win for environmentally
[53:21]
and/or our sea turtles
and our skimmers.
[53:24]
Yes and there's been
hundreds and hundreds
[53:26]
of hours and volunteer
time to build up
[53:30]
and to restore our
dunes and to plant
[53:33]
sea oats and everything else.
[53:35]
It's a really
special to us here.
[53:38]
Absolutely and I just want you
to realize that because this
[53:42]
may not be met with a great.
[53:47]
Happy hearts from a residential
standpoint on this, because we
[53:51]
do care quite a bit
about our beaches,
[53:54]
our wildlife, and
as well the impacts
[53:56]
that it has to this community.
[53:58]
So what benefit does it
bring to the community, not
[54:01]
the businesses.
[54:02]
I'm talking the residents.
[54:03]
What benefit does it bring to
the residents in this community.
[54:07]
Well, we look at it from a
couple of different angles
[54:10]
that it's another
entertainment source.
[54:13]
And we're also trying to get
involved with local community
[54:16]
organizations.
[54:18]
I just met with the Cape ST
Pete Beach clean organization.
[54:24]
The Tradewinds staff have been
talking to the turtle trackers.
[54:28]
I want to get in touch
with the Audubon Society.
[54:32]
We're also working with
a group called hurricane.
[54:35]
Hurricane helpers that
I believe are helping
[54:38]
some of the local
residents in ST Pete Beach
[54:41]
rebuild their homes.
[54:42]
So this is 6 weeks out and
you're just now talking
[54:44]
to these people, or
you're telling me
[54:47]
you've been talking
for the last year.
[54:49]
No, not for the
last year, but we've
[54:50]
been talking for a few months.
[54:52]
Yes, absolutely.
[54:53]
It's kind of six weeks out.
[54:56]
Six weeks out is really a close
time period, as I understand.
[55:00]
Yeah OK.
[55:03]
And do you value
community support.
[55:08]
Absolutely and again
what other benefits.
[55:13]
I mean, what benefits are
you bringing to the community
[55:16]
to the residents.
[55:18]
Well, I mean, it's obvious what
it's bringing to the hoteliers
[55:21]
and potentially the
small businesses
[55:25]
because those will be the ones
that are open up After hours.
[55:28]
Yes because if they're
not opened after
[55:31]
your hours at 10:00,
then it's not really
[55:34]
going to do them any good.
[55:35]
Plus you're bringing
a bunch of people
[55:36]
in because well, it made me do
some of the local businesses,
[55:41]
some good.
[55:41]
If people are coming into
the area earlier before
[55:44]
they go to the festival site.
[55:45]
Our festival site opens
at 1 o'clock or two
[55:48]
o'clock every day, so
they have the opportunity.
[55:50]
Plus if they come
in, they can go
[55:53]
and go to some of these local
businesses during the day
[55:57]
as well.
[55:58]
It doesn't have to be
just after 10 o'clock
[55:59]
o'clock o'clock o'clock.
[56:00]
But the biggest, absolutely, the
biggest thing is going to be,
[56:04]
you're selling your own food.
[56:06]
So it's a festival environment.
[56:08]
I mean, those who haven't
gone to festivals it's almost
[56:11]
like an all inclusive resort.
[56:13]
You're in there and I
don't do your wristbands
[56:16]
allow you to go in and out
or are they one and only.
[56:19]
You can go out once
during the day.
[56:22]
So if somebody comes
in early and wants
[56:24]
to leave and go get lunch or
what have you, they can do that.
[56:26]
So one time OK, so
that how many tickets
[56:30]
are you looking to sell our
cap for that area is 12,000.
[56:36]
I'm hoping for 8 to 10.
[56:38]
And how do you
validate those numbers.
[56:42]
Just through our
sales, everything
[56:44]
goes through our website,
through our ticketing company.
[56:47]
And you're looking at this the
application says a yearly event.
[56:53]
Is that correct.
[56:54]
Yes, that's correct.
[56:55]
Have you done any other
beach events before.
[56:57]
I have not, no.
[56:58]
And any of the companies
you're working with in hiring
[57:01]
have they.
[57:01]
Our production company.
[57:02]
Yes or stage production company.
[57:04]
Premier global production.
[57:08]
So they've done
shows like tortuga.
[57:10]
They've done hangout.
[57:13]
They've done several beach
shows over the last 25 years.
[57:17]
OK I've worked hang out before,
so I'm familiar with that
[57:22]
and the setup as well.
[57:24]
So I just want to warn you,
just don't be surprised
[57:30]
if you get a large backlash
from the community in regards
[57:33]
to this, I understand
because we do value.
[57:36]
I mean, we have it
in our Comp plan
[57:38]
as taking care of our wildlife.
[57:41]
I mean, if it's that
important, we put it in there.
[57:43]
Sure no I understand.
[57:45]
OK thank you.
[57:46]
Thank you.
[57:47]
Thank you.
[57:47]
Please, Commissioner Maldonado.
[57:49]
Hey I call you Kim.
[57:51]
Yes, absolutely.
[57:52]
Kim, have you considered
having it off the beach
[57:54]
on the parking lot side.
[57:57]
We have considered that.
[57:59]
We're hopeful that we don't have
to do that because that changes
[58:02]
a whole range of things.
[58:05]
How people enter the site.
[58:07]
That sort of thing.
[58:08]
So it's a consideration, but
we're hopeful that we don't
[58:12]
have to go that direction.
[58:14]
So it's a convenience thing.
[58:16]
Planning and logistics
versus necessity.
[58:19]
No, it has to do with
our ingress and egress.
[58:22]
That particular part
of the parking lot
[58:24]
is part of our
ingress and egress.
[58:27]
It's the biggest, widest walk
path to get to the beach area
[58:32]
and we would prefer to use
that as an entrance as opposed
[58:35]
to putting our stage there.
[58:36]
Who gets the final say on that.
[58:38]
I mean, our organizer, our
permit is based off of the maps
[58:44]
that we have submitted, and
the maps that we have submitted
[58:47]
are the ones that
we've submitted
[58:49]
to the city of ST Pete Beach.
[58:50]
But ultimately, you're
the decision maker.
[58:54]
Yes OK.
[58:55]
Thank you.
[58:57]
I have one more question.
[58:58]
Sorry what is a take permit.
[59:01]
An incidental take permit.
[59:04]
It has to do with
nesting shorebirds.
[59:06]
And it's an incidental
take permit.
[59:10]
So from my understanding, from
talking to fish and Wildlife,
[59:15]
it's a permit that allows you.
[59:17]
How do I put this.
[59:22]
You're not looking to do any
harm to any nesting birds,
[59:26]
but if that happens, then
you're not liable for it.
[59:30]
So you could kill birds.
[59:32]
I don't want to kill birds.
[59:33]
No, but.
[59:34]
But you could with a take
permit, I guess so, I mean,
[59:36]
it's been suggested from
Fish and Wildlife that we
[59:39]
submit that permit, so that's.
[59:41]
I think that's the
only way you could
[59:42]
actually do this festival on the
beach, considering the wildlife.
[59:46]
So I don't know that for a
fact, but you would probably
[59:49]
know better than I. But yes.
[59:51]
So a take permit, an
incidental take permit
[59:54]
allows you to do harm to
the birds or the wildlife
[59:59]
than endangered wildlife.
[1:00:01]
OK I just want to make that
clear that everybody realizes
[1:00:05]
that the residents realize that.
[1:00:08]
And that's what you're
asking for to happen.
[1:00:12]
I'm not asking for it.
[1:00:13]
Well, to have this on for us to.
[1:00:16]
Well, that's what you have
to have to be able to have
[1:00:18]
what you're asking for.
[1:00:20]
Yes, but that does not
mean that we are going
[1:00:22]
to actively harm any birds.
[1:00:24]
No, but you're asking for a
permit to allow that to happen.
[1:00:27]
If it does, can we clarify who's
asking for the take permit,
[1:00:30]
is it.
[1:00:30]
I assume you're not.
[1:00:31]
No I'm guessing
it's asked by whom.
[1:00:34]
Please so, Department
of Fish and Wildlife.
[1:00:38]
Fish and Wildlife.
[1:00:38]
That's correct.
[1:00:39]
OK thank you.
[1:00:41]
I also understand we have
a presentation from Andy.
[1:00:45]
Are we ready to go
forward with that.
[1:00:47]
Thank you.
[1:00:48]
Thanks, Kim.
[1:00:49]
Thank you.
[1:00:49]
Kim OK, so let's get into
the presentation here.
[1:00:55]
Let's give an overview.
[1:00:56]
So the overview is
the dates are proposed
[1:00:58]
for May 8 through the 10th.
[1:01:00]
The venue is Tradewinds
resort and the promoter
[1:01:03]
is Country Thunder.
[1:01:04]
So the environmental groups
that have been actively working
[1:01:07]
on this has been the Audubon
Society sea turtle trackers,
[1:01:11]
FWC, which is Florida Fish and
Wildlife, and Florida Department
[1:01:15]
of Environmental Protection.
[1:01:18]
Pinellas County Sheriff's
OFS will be doing the law
[1:01:20]
enforcement at this
event, and the ST.
[1:01:22]
Pete Beach Fire Rescue will be
providing emergency services.
[1:01:26]
We are also working
the event organizer
[1:01:30]
and Tradewinds is working
directly with waste connections,
[1:01:33]
and Country Thunder will
have an on site vendor
[1:01:36]
for their waste collections.
[1:01:39]
So our guiding principles, we
are reviewing our Comp plan
[1:01:43]
and our special event permit
guidelines to make sure that we
[1:01:46]
are following the process.
[1:01:50]
So the permitting
process starts out
[1:01:52]
with Tradewinds has submitted a
special event permit to the city
[1:01:56]
requesting this concert.
[1:01:58]
May 8 through the 10th.
[1:02:00]
So when a special event
permit has been submitted,
[1:02:03]
the requirements
of the city include
[1:02:05]
the traffic plan, a
parking plan, site plan,
[1:02:08]
hold harmless agreement and
certificate of insurance.
[1:02:11]
Some other things
may be required
[1:02:15]
just depending on the size of
the event and the location.
[1:02:18]
So in this case, because
the stage is going
[1:02:20]
to be constructed on the West
side of the coastal construction
[1:02:26]
control volume.
[1:02:27]
The permit has then been.
[1:02:30]
The applicant has
then been requested
[1:02:32]
to obtain a permit
from Florida Department
[1:02:35]
of Environmental Protection.
[1:02:38]
Dep is also requiring
the applicant
[1:02:41]
to address some of the FWC
concerns that has been outlined.
[1:02:45]
So they've been actively
going back and forth
[1:02:48]
with questions pertaining
to the shorebirds
[1:02:50]
and the nesting turtles.
[1:02:53]
And they've been
addressing Tradewinds
[1:02:56]
and Country Thunder have
been addressing the concerns
[1:02:58]
outlined in the DEP request.
[1:03:03]
So as of today, Department
of Environmental Protection
[1:03:06]
has not issued a permit
and nor has the city.
[1:03:09]
The process is because we
have requested the Department
[1:03:12]
of Environmental Protection.
[1:03:14]
Once we receive
that permit, then we
[1:03:15]
will have the go ahead to
issue a special event permit
[1:03:18]
depending on the outline.
[1:03:22]
This is a subject
to change site map.
[1:03:26]
You'll notice that on the
Northeast side of the property
[1:03:30]
will be the main entrance,
and on the Southwest side
[1:03:34]
will be the main stage.
[1:03:36]
The subject.
[1:03:37]
This is subject to change.
[1:03:38]
We're still working through
some of the logistics.
[1:03:40]
And again, it will all go
back to the results of the DEP
[1:03:45]
permit and any other
logistical concerns
[1:03:47]
that we may come across.
[1:03:51]
So some of the
mitigating factors
[1:03:52]
that we're going
to go over, we'll
[1:03:54]
start with the
environmental portion,
[1:03:56]
which is the shorebirds.
[1:03:57]
So the city is the city
is not constructing,
[1:04:02]
but the city is
designing whatever
[1:04:04]
a memorandum of
understanding that
[1:04:07]
will be provided to the venue,
as well as to Country Thunder,
[1:04:11]
in that it's going to outline
some of the requirements
[1:04:14]
from the city.
[1:04:15]
It's going to be
capping the sound to 85.
[1:04:18]
No drones, no pyrotechnics.
[1:04:20]
On site parking for
four Audubon personnel
[1:04:24]
hired the Audubon educator with
tent space on the event site.
[1:04:28]
Day of event bird monitoring
and Pinellas County Sheriff's
[1:04:31]
Office personnel to
assist with enforcement
[1:04:34]
of the bird monitoring.
[1:04:36]
We have also requested that no
future large scale music events
[1:04:39]
occur during Shorebird season.
[1:04:45]
The environmental.
[1:04:46]
The environmental
portion for the turtles.
[1:04:48]
We will continue to have
daily turtle monitoring
[1:04:51]
by the sea turtle trackers.
[1:04:52]
Bruno falkenstien
is here tonight.
[1:04:55]
He is our principal.
[1:04:56]
Florida Fish and
Wildlife Commission
[1:04:58]
permit holder for ST
Pete Beach identified
[1:05:01]
nests will be secured, and
the city requested again
[1:05:04]
that no future large
scale events happen
[1:05:06]
during the nesting season.
[1:05:11]
ST Pete Beach Fire Rescue will
be the lead presence for on site
[1:05:14]
emergency operations.
[1:05:16]
The Tradewinds will be providing
a suite for the emergency
[1:05:19]
operations center.
[1:05:21]
Country thunder will be
providing the evacuation plan
[1:05:25]
and inclement weather plan, and
provide details to that effect.
[1:05:29]
Atvs will be used for in
crowd, medical emergency,
[1:05:33]
and the ST. Pete Beach
fire department has already
[1:05:36]
designed a tentative staffing
plan based on the site
[1:05:39]
layout, which could be changed.
[1:05:44]
Pinellas County
Sheriff's OFS will
[1:05:45]
be responsible for the
traffic management plan.
[1:05:48]
They are in progress
of creating that plan.
[1:05:51]
It has not been
submitted to date.
[1:05:53]
Ingress and egress management
for the buses and emergency
[1:05:56]
services vehicles
will be outlined
[1:05:58]
in that plan, as well
as crowd management
[1:06:00]
outside of the event zone.
[1:06:02]
So outside of the
concert zone, basically
[1:06:05]
from County park
to upland beach,
[1:06:07]
depending on volume
of participants.
[1:06:11]
Residents in they will have
presence in the emergency
[1:06:13]
operations center,
and they will also
[1:06:15]
have a patrol boat off the
Coast of the Tradewinds beach.
[1:06:21]
The traffic plan.
[1:06:22]
Again, this is going to
be done by the Pinellas
[1:06:25]
County Sheriff's Office.
[1:06:26]
It has not been
submitted to date,
[1:06:28]
but we are actively
working along
[1:06:30]
with Tradewinds and Country
Thunder on all of this.
[1:06:33]
So some of the initial concerns
that were identified was
[1:06:35]
the traffic signal management
on 75th Ave at Boca ciega,
[1:06:39]
blind pass, and Gulf Boulevard.
[1:06:42]
We also have discussed
closing the left
[1:06:44]
turn lane on mangrove and 75th
and closing the left turn.
[1:06:48]
Cut through access on blind
pass, Boca ciega and Gulf winds.
[1:06:53]
And there's been discussion
around traffic flow management
[1:06:55]
during peak times
on Gulf Boulevard.
[1:06:57]
The peak times right
now has been determined
[1:06:59]
to be 4:00 PM to 7:00 PM.
[1:07:03]
And then when we say the left
turn signal, and the left,
[1:07:06]
it's going to reverse at
the conclusion of the event.
[1:07:13]
Transportation and parking.
[1:07:15]
So plans have not been
submitted to date.
[1:07:16]
But again, we are actively
working with Tradewinds
[1:07:19]
and Country Thunder, who is
actively working with the Tampa
[1:07:23]
Bay Rays to secure Tropicana
Field as their primary parking
[1:07:27]
location.
[1:07:28]
They will have shuttle buses to
and from the Tradewinds event
[1:07:31]
site.
[1:07:32]
A rideshare drop off at rum
rum fish property and the city
[1:07:37]
will increase parking
enforcement that weekend.
[1:07:42]
Waste services again actively
working with waste connections.
[1:07:45]
Country thunder.
[1:07:46]
Tradewinds so this has not
been submitted to date,
[1:07:49]
but we did have discussions that
waste connections will provide
[1:07:52]
30 yard dumpsters, 8
yard dumpsters, and trash
[1:07:55]
toters for the event site.
[1:07:58]
There will be a
third party company
[1:07:59]
to be used for the daily
trash collections on site,
[1:08:03]
as well as the nightly sweep
and cleanup for the next day.
[1:08:06]
Morning dumpster pickup will
happen before the gates open,
[1:08:10]
and then the city is requesting
additional 8 yard dumpsters
[1:08:13]
to be placed on Upham beach,
or to be placed on the beach
[1:08:16]
between Upham and County park,
similar to what we currently do
[1:08:19]
for any kind of 4th
of July activities,
[1:08:23]
so additional city
staff will be provided
[1:08:25]
for extra trash collection
outside of the event zone.
[1:08:28]
We'll be working with them.
[1:08:33]
Business support for economic
development opportunities.
[1:08:35]
So may is traditionally a
slower hotel occupancy time.
[1:08:40]
So that's going to be a
direct benefit to Tradewinds
[1:08:45]
and other hoteliers.
[1:08:47]
Indirect benefits will
include the local businesses
[1:08:50]
serving visitors.
[1:08:51]
So retail restaurant,
bars any of those kind
[1:08:54]
of auxiliary locations.
[1:08:56]
And then the induced will
be the temporary employment
[1:08:58]
non event related spending.
[1:09:01]
So we're increasing synergy
across small business community.
[1:09:05]
We will also have
national brand visibility
[1:09:07]
and recognition in both
earned and organic media.
[1:09:11]
Another benefit will be the
attraction of future talent
[1:09:14]
and investment.
[1:09:15]
That could be
additional businesses
[1:09:18]
that may come to ST Pete
Beach, or maybe some residents
[1:09:21]
that come for the
event and then love it
[1:09:23]
so much they just want to stay.
[1:09:27]
City communications.
[1:09:28]
So this will be led
by Mark Portugal.
[1:09:30]
He is our
communications manager.
[1:09:32]
There will be multi-channel
updates as plans progress.
[1:09:35]
Public awareness around the
environmental stewardship
[1:09:39]
reinforce the parking and
transportation restrictions.
[1:09:42]
Will work closely with
the marketing manager
[1:09:44]
through with Country Thunder.
[1:09:48]
We'll have reminders of
Country Thunder event rules
[1:09:50]
and regulations, and
respond to and redirect
[1:09:53]
media inquiries
before and/or the days
[1:09:56]
leading up to the event.
[1:09:58]
So we'll also be in the position
to support the city manager
[1:10:01]
and city commission as needed.
[1:10:05]
So the next steps.
[1:10:06]
We are still waiting on
the DEP permit approval.
[1:10:10]
Then that would trigger the
special event permit approval
[1:10:15]
issuance of the memorandum
of understanding to the event
[1:10:18]
organizer and venue.
[1:10:20]
And then calculate and
submit the reimbursement
[1:10:22]
costs for all city
resources used so
[1:10:24]
Sheriff, Fire Rescue
public services, and such.
[1:10:29]
So with that, I
will take questions.
[1:10:35]
What is the projected
attendance of non-ticket holders
[1:10:42]
that we haven't really
had the discussion around.
[1:10:47]
I'm not sure if in
other events, if that's
[1:10:50]
something that's come about.
[1:10:52]
Do you ever one of our events
we have the perimeter fenced.
[1:10:58]
We have very small
number of not even
[1:11:01]
100 people that will come and
try and look through the fence.
[1:11:04]
This entire property
will be fenced
[1:11:05]
for the duration of the event.
[1:11:07]
There will be no.
[1:11:08]
No way, unless you're
staying at the hotel
[1:11:10]
to be able to see
the performances.
[1:11:14]
So in our experience, we
haven't had a ton of people
[1:11:19]
try and help them.
[1:11:21]
Can I ask please just I
appreciate you answering.
[1:11:24]
If you answer, if you come
up so we can get on record,
[1:11:26]
on the mic, if you can.
[1:11:27]
So yeah, if you can paraphrase
but so next time please come up
[1:11:32]
please.
[1:11:32]
And just.
[1:11:32]
Yeah thank you.
[1:11:33]
What Kim was saying
is that basically
[1:11:35]
the whole property, the event
zone is going to be fenced in.
[1:11:39]
So it really will deter people
from standing outside along
[1:11:42]
and then along the water line.
[1:11:44]
They're going to try to keep
people moving and flowing
[1:11:46]
through so that
we have an active,
[1:11:47]
we have an open lane for
people to be able to walk
[1:11:50]
through and traverse.
[1:11:52]
But it is customary
use and it is a beach.
[1:11:54]
It is.
[1:11:54]
So it is there.
[1:11:56]
There is public that
can be outside of those.
[1:11:59]
And the stages are
high and the fences
[1:12:02]
aren't as high as the stage
is and the sound travels.
[1:12:06]
So there will be a
significant I would
[1:12:10]
say, a outside draw to this.
[1:12:14]
What plans are made to
accommodate that outside draw.
[1:12:19]
Well, we're going to we've
asked Pinellas County
[1:12:22]
Sheriff's Office to
increase staffing
[1:12:24]
outside of the event zone.
[1:12:27]
Who's that paid by.
[1:12:29]
That will be paid by Country
Thunder and Tradewinds.
[1:12:32]
They'll work on the
payment through them.
[1:12:36]
But that's what we're basically
trying to move people along,
[1:12:40]
trying to prevent people from
just kind of hanging out there
[1:12:44]
and trying to get a free
show and open beach.
[1:12:48]
So there will be people
set up and they will be
[1:12:51]
trying to listen to the event.
[1:12:52]
And are there any
arrangements for that.
[1:12:55]
Country thunder is providing
portlets or porta potties
[1:12:59]
and anything else outside
of the festival grounds
[1:13:02]
for that overflow
attendance, because as we all
[1:13:06]
know that live here,
people park near our yards.
[1:13:09]
They park on our sprinkler
heads when they pull up
[1:13:14]
and they leave their trash
and amongst other things
[1:13:19]
that they do.
[1:13:21]
So I just want to
be prepared for that
[1:13:24]
and to have limited
if any of that.
[1:13:27]
We have started
communications with that.
[1:13:29]
We did talk about adding
additional portlets, maybe
[1:13:33]
at the North end
of the Tradewinds,
[1:13:35]
and possibly even at Upham
beach and County park
[1:13:38]
to funnel people to those areas.
[1:13:40]
We figure that's where
people will go most.
[1:13:42]
So we are still working through
that with that logistics,
[1:13:45]
with Country Thunder and
Tradewinds and as well, Corey,
[1:13:50]
because I can imagine Corey
might get some overflow as well.
[1:13:53]
Corey possibly as well.
[1:13:54]
So yes, it's
something that we're
[1:13:56]
still in the planning process
of and it will be addressed.
[1:13:59]
Well, it's just six
weeks out, so planning
[1:14:00]
is going to get of short soon.
[1:14:03]
OK thank you Mr.
Marriott thank you.
[1:14:09]
Thanks, Mandy.
[1:14:09]
I appreciate the
presentation and.
[1:14:11]
And I appreciate you and the
rest of your staff's hard work
[1:14:14]
on this.
[1:14:14]
And thanks, Kim, for
coming and speaking to us.
[1:14:18]
I have not so much questions
as just a couple of comments
[1:14:23]
to make about it.
[1:14:25]
I think that it is absolutely
unfortunate that this
[1:14:31]
is happening in turtle
and Shorebird season,
[1:14:35]
but large events on ST. Pete
Beach are not unheard of either.
[1:14:38]
And so, I think in the
past, in 2017 and 2018,
[1:14:44]
when the trade winds did
bike fest I think it was six
[1:14:48]
to $7,000 people attending per
day with the addition of having
[1:14:53]
to have lots of motorcycle
trailers parked all over
[1:14:56]
the city and having a motorcycle
ride similar to the toy
[1:15:00]
run that we have at Christmas.
[1:15:01]
That happened all
through the city
[1:15:03]
and over the Skyway
and back and concerts
[1:15:08]
with big name
folks on the beach.
[1:15:10]
And that happened in November.
[1:15:13]
So we were outside of some
of the environmental issues
[1:15:15]
we're running into here.
[1:15:17]
But my recollection
of those events
[1:15:20]
is that for residents
who lived in the city,
[1:15:23]
it was very much a non-event,
other than the sound
[1:15:27]
of motorcycles going up
and down Gulf Boulevard.
[1:15:29]
It wasn't a disaster of epic
proportions by any stretch.
[1:15:38]
It was mostly unnoticeable.
[1:15:42]
And so I think this
event is potentially
[1:15:46]
going to be a little
bit bigger than that,
[1:15:48]
but certainly not double.
[1:15:50]
And, many of the folks
I've talked to are,
[1:15:57]
there's always a possibility
with some kind of big event
[1:15:59]
that something can go wrong.
[1:16:00]
But I think most people
that I've spoken to
[1:16:02]
are very cautiously
optimistic that this is going
[1:16:05]
to be a really neat event.
[1:16:07]
It's exciting to have
it happen in the city.
[1:16:09]
I'm excited that there's
resident a pretty discounted
[1:16:13]
resident rate for tickets.
[1:16:15]
So I hope that the people who
live here take advantage of that
[1:16:19]
and walk over to the beach and
buy have your discounted ticket
[1:16:24]
and go enjoy the concert.
[1:16:27]
In addition to the bike fest
that's happened in the past,
[1:16:30]
the Bucs bash that happens every
summer, I think has around four
[1:16:34]
or 5,000 people that attend.
[1:16:37]
Also with no drama
that I've ever,
[1:16:40]
ever recall hearing of in
any way, shape, or form.
[1:16:44]
So I think a lot of the
fears are because it's new
[1:16:49]
and that's always concerning.
[1:16:52]
But it's certainly
not unprecedented.
[1:16:55]
One thing I did want to mention
that I think as a commission we
[1:16:58]
might want to discuss is that
with the potential of lots
[1:17:01]
of traffic coming into the city
and people looking for places
[1:17:04]
to park, because I know that
as much as the organizer
[1:17:07]
will encourage people
to park elsewhere.
[1:17:09]
If I were coming from
somewhere else in ST Pete
[1:17:12]
and I lived closer to the beach
than I lived to Raymond James it
[1:17:14]
would be, or to
Tropicana Field, you'd
[1:17:16]
be hard pressed to
make me drive there
[1:17:18]
and ride a shuttle bus out here.
[1:17:20]
But what we do have is we
have a lot of privately owned,
[1:17:25]
underutilized parking
lots in ST Pete Beach.
[1:17:28]
And if we could allow just for
the special event for everybody
[1:17:32]
who owns a parking lot to run
a parking lot that they sell
[1:17:36]
spaces in, instead of having all
those parking lots sit empty,
[1:17:39]
we could probably alleviate
a lot of the cars that drive
[1:17:42]
onto the beach and drive around
looking for a place to park
[1:17:45]
or try to park in neighborhoods.
[1:17:48]
So I think we have
some mechanisms
[1:17:50]
at our disposal
to help alleviate
[1:17:52]
some of those problems.
[1:17:53]
So that's really it.
[1:17:55]
Thank you very much,
Mandy, I appreciate it.
[1:17:56]
Yeah thank you.
[1:17:57]
Commissioner
commissioner Maldonado,
[1:18:00]
I'd like to hear from Bruno
Falcon seen a little bit
[1:18:04]
about his concerns, if
any, regarding the turtles
[1:18:07]
and the turtle watch program.
[1:18:09]
What you're going to be
doing to support this.
[1:18:10]
Thank you man.
[1:18:11]
If you'll stay, I have some
questions for you past that,
[1:18:13]
but let's hear from Bruno.
[1:18:18]
Bruno Falkenstein
I don't know if I
[1:18:20]
should use the property that
we have for my home address.
[1:18:23]
I'm just going to
use 109th Avenue.
[1:18:26]
It's turtles are rather strange.
[1:18:29]
I checked today, I wanted to
find out if there's any nesting
[1:18:33]
on the West Coast of Florida.
[1:18:34]
There is not.
[1:18:36]
Let me give you
a little history.
[1:18:38]
Turtles generally will start
coming in by water temperature.
[1:18:42]
It's more water temperature
than anything else.
[1:18:45]
For instance, in 2010 was one of
the coldest days or the coldest
[1:18:50]
water temperature we had.
[1:18:53]
It was 62.1 degrees
this time of the year.
[1:18:57]
We did not get a
nest until July.
[1:19:00]
We had no idea why other than
the water temperature today.
[1:19:06]
Yesterday the water
temperature was 70.
[1:19:09]
Crazy The water
temperature today is 69.
[1:19:12]
You can't.
[1:19:13]
You can't tell.
[1:19:14]
The warmest it's been
for the month of May
[1:19:17]
was in 220, where the
water temperature was 76.6.
[1:19:25]
April's average is 75.
[1:19:28]
The minimum is usually 64.
[1:19:30]
The maximum is usually 80.
[1:19:32]
That's the range.
[1:19:33]
May the.
[1:19:35]
The average is usually 80.1.
[1:19:38]
Usually our nesting
starts somewhere
[1:19:40]
around the 20th of May.
[1:19:43]
The minimum was 73.6.
[1:19:46]
That was back in
2010, and the maximum
[1:19:48]
has been as high as 89.1.
[1:19:52]
And where the turtles
are going to come up.
[1:19:54]
Take a handful of sand.
[1:19:56]
Throw it up in the air.
[1:19:57]
We have no idea.
[1:20:01]
I would like to think
that in the past,
[1:20:06]
the one thing that I
did forget to thank
[1:20:08]
is that I'd like to thank the
city and all the commissions
[1:20:12]
that I've dealt with,
because I have been allowed
[1:20:15]
to use ST Pete Beach
since 1971, excuse me, 79,
[1:20:20]
to do turtle studies.
[1:20:22]
And if any of you
ever have the time
[1:20:25]
and I know this is
all subject, and would
[1:20:27]
you like to come out
and learn a little bit.
[1:20:28]
I have to warn you,
it's addictive.
[1:20:31]
I don't know what
else I can tell you.
[1:20:34]
Please, if you have
any other questions.
[1:20:36]
Once a turtle nest
is in the ground,
[1:20:39]
the danger is when the turtle
comes up to lay her eggs.
[1:20:42]
That's when she can get spooked.
[1:20:44]
If she's already laid her
eggs and are on the ground,
[1:20:47]
they're very safe until
right before they hatch.
[1:20:50]
So that's not the problem.
[1:20:51]
The problem is if
people bother them.
[1:20:55]
I've been requested
to possibly have
[1:20:57]
some personnel around
starting right at sunset.
[1:21:02]
They said 10:30.
[1:21:03]
I would rather have people
staying around till about 11:30
[1:21:06]
that night, just to make
sure if any nesting turtles
[1:21:09]
do come up in that area.
[1:21:11]
No one's there to bother them.
[1:21:13]
What else can I answer for you.
[1:21:16]
You've done an incredible
job right there alone.
[1:21:18]
I've learned 1,000 more
than I knew two minutes ago.
[1:21:22]
So thank you, Bruno.
[1:21:23]
Well thank you.
[1:21:25]
Yeah good question.
[1:21:26]
Sorry please.
[1:21:26]
Were you done.
[1:21:27]
You say.
[1:21:27]
And who do we need to coordinate
with to extend the time.
[1:21:30]
Well, today I had a
call from Mark Boyer,
[1:21:33]
and that's from the Tradewinds.
[1:21:36]
And he was outlining some of
the state's recommendations.
[1:21:41]
As a matter of fact, the
state had no recommendations.
[1:21:44]
We had a big meeting
two weeks ago,
[1:21:46]
and I questioned them on this.
[1:21:48]
And they my comment to you
guys is this through the years,
[1:21:55]
one event would happen
under certain requirements.
[1:21:58]
The next event would
come along and it
[1:22:00]
would be completely different.
[1:22:01]
Another event would
come along and that
[1:22:02]
would be completely different.
[1:22:04]
So really, it's
almost whoever up
[1:22:06]
in Tallahassee is monitoring
this and they are monitoring it.
[1:22:11]
OK thank you.
[1:22:12]
Yeah thank you.
[1:22:14]
And once again, thank you
very much for everything.
[1:22:16]
Thank you sir.
[1:22:19]
Thank you.
[1:22:20]
I did fail to mention too
that we do have Doctor.
[1:22:25]
Sorry sorry sorry.
[1:22:26]
We do have Doctor forys here.
[1:22:29]
She is from Eckerd college and
she is a seabird and Shorebird
[1:22:33]
expert too as well.
[1:22:34]
We have additional questions.
[1:22:36]
Thank you.
[1:22:38]
Does Doctor Shorey have
any comments for us
[1:22:39]
or just if we have questions,
you're here to help.
[1:22:42]
Sure she could.
[1:22:44]
Yeah Same thing.
[1:22:47]
Yeah give us your perspective
on the impact here, please.
[1:22:52]
Hi I've been studying the
seabirds on our beaches
[1:22:56]
for the past 34 years, and they
have been at ST. Pete Beach
[1:23:00]
since 2013.
[1:23:02]
Obviously, a long time ago,
back in the seconds and 40s,
[1:23:05]
this was the biggest County,
the biggest colony in the state.
[1:23:08]
Now it's the second
biggest colony.
[1:23:10]
And so it's 10% of the Black
skimmers nest on ST. Pete Beach.
[1:23:15]
And there's some of the
most successful ones.
[1:23:18]
Last year they started
nesting in late April.
[1:23:21]
And if that happens, I have
no idea if they will stay
[1:23:27]
or if they will abandon.
[1:23:29]
More likely, they'll try to nest
around the time of the festival
[1:23:32]
and they will probably be
delayed in their nesting.
[1:23:36]
So then it pushes them
more into hurricane season.
[1:23:42]
So I have a hard time imagining
this is such a big event.
[1:23:45]
I have nothing
analogous to compare it
[1:23:47]
to because most
towns like this don't
[1:23:50]
approve situations like this.
[1:23:52]
I've seen the hangout out
photos of that big festival,
[1:23:57]
but that's the only beach party
this big I can find anywhere.
[1:24:02]
And that's a big City Beach.
[1:24:03]
It's not a more
natural area like this,
[1:24:06]
so there's just nothing
to compare this to.
[1:24:08]
But I am a little bit worried
about all the fire trucks.
[1:24:10]
What if somebody gets hurt.
[1:24:12]
One year we had a
skimmer colony and it
[1:24:14]
was the year the fireworks
went the wrong way.
[1:24:16]
And they hit a
bunch of the hotels
[1:24:19]
and the fire trucks
ran through the colony,
[1:24:22]
and we lost every single bird.
[1:24:24]
So I'm kind of nervous about
something like that happening.
[1:24:27]
OK thank you.
[1:24:31]
Mandy, I have a few
questions for you, please.
[1:24:37]
The total beach area
behind the Tradewinds.
[1:24:40]
How many quarter mile.
[1:24:41]
Half mile do we know.
[1:24:42]
The total distance
of the beach area
[1:24:45]
of the site Really of
the event site area
[1:24:49]
9 acres, 9 acres 9 nine acres.
[1:24:53]
OK, I'm turning my head to
figure out if that's a quarter
[1:24:55]
mile of our seven or
eight miles worth of beach
[1:24:58]
or is it something different.
[1:25:00]
I'm trying to figure out
what percentage of our beach
[1:25:02]
we have to protect, if
you will, in this event.
[1:25:04]
So I'd like to just understand
the percentage of our beach
[1:25:06]
that could potentially
be impacted.
[1:25:08]
And then I know you mentioned
that we were going to identify
[1:25:13]
the I'll speak to
the turtle nest
[1:25:16]
because I saw at least
an image of the turtles
[1:25:18]
with the signs around them, or
at least the tape around them.
[1:25:21]
I assume if we identify
any they're there.
[1:25:23]
The intent would be to obviously
identify and Mark them off.
[1:25:27]
And then how do we guard them.
[1:25:28]
Let me make sure that
it's not just a mark.
[1:25:30]
Will somebody be watching to
make sure that if that occurs,
[1:25:33]
that they're watching to make
sure that they're guarded,
[1:25:35]
they will.
[1:25:36]
I believe when I spoke to
the Tradewinds earlier,
[1:25:38]
they did say that there would
be a turtle monitor out there.
[1:25:42]
So that will be in the
evening to protect the nests.
[1:25:45]
And then I'm sure if
there's a nest out there
[1:25:47]
that we'll work closely with
Bruno and the permit holders
[1:25:50]
to make sure that the
nests are properly
[1:25:52]
protected during the event.
[1:25:53]
OK thank you.
[1:25:54]
And then one more
question for you.
[1:25:56]
A little more on
the side of cost,
[1:25:58]
because I heard the
question come up earlier,
[1:26:01]
any costs that the
city incurs to this
[1:26:04]
is that as a result of
Country Thunder, or is
[1:26:07]
it reimbursable
back to the city.
[1:26:08]
Every bit of it.
[1:26:09]
It will be.
[1:26:10]
So what we'll do is
as I mentioned in one
[1:26:12]
of the previous slides,
we will go ahead
[1:26:14]
and we'll calculate
everything that it costs to go
[1:26:17]
ahead and put this event on.
[1:26:18]
And then we would submit that to
Country Thunder and Tradewinds
[1:26:21]
to reimburse the city
inclusive of protection costs
[1:26:24]
as well if needed.
[1:26:25]
OK Very good.
[1:26:27]
Thank you.
[1:26:27]
I think that answers
my questions.
[1:26:30]
I've got a follow up question
for MS Kim if you'd come up.
[1:26:35]
Thanks, Mandy.
[1:26:39]
And again, I apologize if it
seems like we're putting you
[1:26:42]
on the spot and if in any way
this comes across as accusatory,
[1:26:47]
it's not.
[1:26:47]
It's just a conversation.
[1:26:49]
Sure have you considered
donations to both
[1:26:53]
the turtles and the birds.
[1:26:56]
You have.
[1:26:56]
As of right now, $2
from each of our tickets
[1:26:59]
is going directly
to turtle trackers.
[1:27:02]
We haven't yet
figured out what we
[1:27:05]
can do with whichever society,
whether it's the Audubon Society
[1:27:11]
or another organization.
[1:27:13]
But yes, we have done
that in the past.
[1:27:15]
We support charitable
organizations
[1:27:18]
in all of our communities
that we work with.
[1:27:20]
So, yes, and that's
very generous of you.
[1:27:23]
Also appreciate the fact that
your capped the decibels at 85.
[1:27:28]
I understand that that's
a pretty big deal.
[1:27:30]
It is.
[1:27:31]
And the only reason that
we're able to agree to that
[1:27:34]
is because we also have an inner
city festival up in Canada,
[1:27:38]
and it's an 85 decibel
cap at that show as well.
[1:27:44]
Very good.
[1:27:44]
Wonderful Thank you.
[1:27:46]
One more for you, please,
while you're here.
[1:27:49]
The events in time.
[1:27:51]
I understand it's
10:00 PM sharp.
[1:27:53]
And so I think we have
a city ordinance that
[1:27:55]
says music stops at
10:00 PM outdoors,
[1:27:58]
roughly translating that.
[1:27:59]
So you'll be done within the
city's ordinances of time frames
[1:28:02]
as well.
[1:28:02]
Thank you.
[1:28:04]
Yes OK.
[1:28:06]
Anybody else before I go.
[1:28:08]
No, but you might hang out.
[1:28:09]
We normally don't
always take comments
[1:28:12]
on these types of
presentations, but I
[1:28:14]
understand there is
some audience commentary
[1:28:16]
associated with this.
[1:28:17]
And as a matter of fact, we
have audience comments coming up
[1:28:19]
in just a few moments anyway.
[1:28:21]
So I'll entertain any questions
associated with Country Thunder.
[1:28:26]
Renee, if you have any that
are associated with it.
[1:28:28]
Cindy Perry.
[1:28:35]
Thank you, Mr. Perry.
[1:28:36]
Please state your name and
address for the record.
[1:28:39]
Cindy Perry 11:26 Boca ciega.
[1:28:42]
I'll drive.
[1:28:44]
I want to make sure that I am
speaking as a private resident
[1:28:48]
and a black skimmer
advocate, and nothing
[1:28:51]
to do with the planning board.
[1:28:54]
I have one word to say
about this presentation
[1:28:58]
and that word is unbelievable.
[1:29:01]
What's unbelievable.
[1:29:04]
It's unbelievable.
[1:29:05]
After all the years the trade
winds has been on ST. Pete Beach
[1:29:09]
that they don't know
about nesting season.
[1:29:13]
I guess it's easier to get
an incidental take permit.
[1:29:17]
It's unbelievable that
Country Thunder doesn't seem
[1:29:20]
to have a project manager to
assure that plans are complete
[1:29:25]
this close to an event.
[1:29:28]
I can tell you, as a retired
project management professional
[1:29:32]
certified by the Project
Management Institute,
[1:29:35]
I would have been fired if
things were this incomplete.
[1:29:38]
So close to an implementation.
[1:29:41]
Fire rescue staffing
planned to be determined.
[1:29:44]
Pinellas County
Sheriff's Office.
[1:29:46]
Traffic management
plan and progress.
[1:29:48]
Transportation
and parking plans.
[1:29:51]
Waiting for contract
from the Rays, et cetera.
[1:29:54]
You've all heard
the presentation,
[1:29:56]
so I won't go on about
the current status,
[1:29:58]
but apparently they
don't even have a project
[1:30:00]
manager to present
their project and it
[1:30:02]
has to be done by City staff.
[1:30:05]
I just don't
understand this at all.
[1:30:08]
I do have a couple of
recommendations for you.
[1:30:11]
The black skimmer colony
should be monitored 24/7
[1:30:14]
hours a day through the event.
[1:30:16]
It's not unusual for people
to take early or late
[1:30:18]
walks along the beach.
[1:30:20]
And even if the colony is roped
off, there's nothing to say.
[1:30:23]
People won't go in there.
[1:30:25]
And for the reimbursement
costs for all city resources
[1:30:29]
and the project management
that we're providing,
[1:30:32]
we should make sure that there
are estimated dollar amounts
[1:30:35]
in a contract or the permit,
including the ability
[1:30:38]
to increase amounts if needed,
when actual costs are tabulated.
[1:30:42]
And finally, I
asked the city not
[1:30:46]
to issue a permit
until all concerns
[1:30:49]
are satisfactorily addressed.
[1:30:52]
It feels like this
is being jammed
[1:30:54]
through with information
to be provided
[1:30:56]
at the last possible minute.
[1:30:58]
An alternative plan
could be plus the people
[1:31:01]
from the Tradewinds to
Tropicana field for this event.
[1:31:05]
According to the Tropicana
Field upcoming events website,
[1:31:09]
those dates are available.
[1:31:10]
Thank you.
[1:31:12]
Thank you for your comments.
[1:31:15]
Other comments.
[1:31:16]
Dana Richardson.
[1:31:29]
Oh, this is going to be fun.
[1:31:32]
Welcome, Mr. Tate.
[1:31:34]
Thank you.
[1:31:35]
Name and address please.
[1:31:36]
For the record.
[1:31:36]
Sorry pardon.
[1:31:37]
Name and address for the record.
[1:31:38]
Dana Richardson, 5830
Bahama way South.
[1:31:42]
Thank you.
[1:31:42]
Dana OK, so I have to apologize.
[1:31:45]
I was hoping other people
that are more educated
[1:31:48]
are speaking before me.
[1:31:50]
I don't have a printer.
[1:31:52]
I'm living in a stupid
little apartment.
[1:31:54]
It's been a year
and a half, and I'm
[1:31:56]
gave up my date night after two
months of working to be here.
[1:32:01]
Because it's that important.
[1:32:04]
I don't understand how
we get to this place
[1:32:06]
and why the city works so hard
to make this event work when it
[1:32:11]
clearly goes against
state and federal laws
[1:32:17]
for the protection of turtles.
[1:32:20]
I see that on November
it was November 5.
[1:32:24]
I apologize, I can't see
Mark Boyer from Tradewinds
[1:32:28]
on November 5 stated,
and he signed off.
[1:32:32]
He would not
advertise this event
[1:32:35]
that for the special before
the special event permit
[1:32:38]
has been approved by City
staff and commission.
[1:32:42]
And here we are again,
Tradewinds being the bully.
[1:32:45]
And I can trust you.
[1:32:46]
They will file a lawsuit against
us if this doesn't go through.
[1:32:51]
He does not.
[1:32:52]
Tradewinds does not adhere to
what they say that they'll do.
[1:32:56]
They've made that very clear.
[1:32:58]
The Florida FWC on
December 23 put out
[1:33:04]
that they I got to get to it,
that they want the event in so
[1:33:10]
many words to be moved to a
different venue or different
[1:33:14]
dates because of our turtles.
[1:33:17]
Why are we working so
hard to make this work.
[1:33:21]
I live in District 2.
[1:33:22]
I live across from Tradewinds.
[1:33:24]
We already have issues with
parking in our neighborhood
[1:33:28]
during the weekends.
[1:33:30]
When you say it's
peak between 4 and 7.
[1:33:32]
That's not right.
[1:33:34]
On the weekends we are.
[1:33:35]
We are overloaded
with day trippers
[1:33:37]
and we have people parking
in our neighborhoods.
[1:33:41]
And I can't imagine.
[1:33:42]
14 days to set up.
[1:33:44]
And break down with
Semis and buses.
[1:33:46]
How the heck are
the residents when
[1:33:48]
they're closing streets down.
[1:33:50]
How are we supposed to maneuver.
[1:33:52]
Our town is only 8,700
residents, roughly
[1:33:57]
like when everybody's here.
[1:34:01]
This isn't resident friendly.
[1:34:04]
And it's like, OK,
well, they've already
[1:34:06]
pushed their way in bullies
to get this thing done.
[1:34:10]
Well, now they're
setting a precedent.
[1:34:13]
And now finding out because I
just got the dump on the PRR
[1:34:16]
I submitted on the 12, and
that's when I didn't even
[1:34:19]
have time to go over
all the information
[1:34:21]
pages and pages and pages
of how hard and so much
[1:34:24]
has been done on this.
[1:34:27]
It baffles me.
[1:34:29]
They're setting a
precedent for other hotels
[1:34:32]
because it's a big cash cow.
[1:34:35]
Thank you.
[1:34:36]
Thank you.
[1:34:39]
Deborah Deborah Schockner.
[1:34:50]
Good evening, Deborah Schockner.
[1:34:51]
I'll drive.
[1:34:52]
I would like to also indicate
that gentleman from tradewind
[1:34:58]
said there'll be
no advertising, and
[1:35:01]
there'll be no sale of tickets
until a permit has been granted.
[1:35:07]
So right there, that
contract is violated.
[1:35:11]
I talked to two pages.
[1:35:15]
State officials, local
officials, County officials.
[1:35:20]
I have been told that
an environmental impact
[1:35:23]
study should be done.
[1:35:25]
I have not heard that mentioned.
[1:35:28]
We have the shorebirds also
nesting during this time.
[1:35:34]
Sea turtle.
[1:35:37]
State of Florida.
[1:35:38]
161.163 is being violated.
[1:35:43]
12,000 guests is a far cry from
6 from some of the other events.
[1:35:48]
And four.
[1:35:57]
We never heard from staff.
[1:35:59]
I must have brought this up six
or seven commission meetings.
[1:36:02]
Not once did the staff say
what position we're in.
[1:36:07]
Transparency in this city
has always equaled trust.
[1:36:11]
Residents should
have been brought
[1:36:13]
in from the very beginning.
[1:36:15]
This is our city.
[1:36:16]
And by the way, really quick.
[1:36:18]
That's Mother's Day weekend.
[1:36:19]
It's one of the biggest
weekends in May for the beach.
[1:36:22]
Hotels are busy, the
restaurants are very busy.
[1:36:25]
That's why they have
all the buffets.
[1:36:28]
The end of May, middle of
May is when graduations occur
[1:36:31]
and a lot of people
celebrate on the beach,
[1:36:33]
so may is not without tourists.
[1:36:40]
This massive concert
should have had
[1:36:44]
transparency with the
residents from the beginning.
[1:36:47]
Papers were signed in November,
which makes really what they did
[1:36:51]
null and void because they
violated a signed paperwork
[1:36:55]
that they gave to the city.
[1:36:58]
We were misled.
[1:37:00]
It's circumventing.
[1:37:02]
Months ago, staff
was aware of this
[1:37:05]
and now we're presented
as a done deal.
[1:37:08]
As Mindy said,
thunder is coming.
[1:37:12]
We demand as residents to
be treated better if we're
[1:37:16]
not brought in on the process.
[1:37:18]
If there's not trust and
there's not transparency,
[1:37:21]
and there are signed contracts
that have already been violated,
[1:37:25]
how can we allow this
to hit our beach.
[1:37:29]
There will be a lot of
skimmers that will lose.
[1:37:35]
There will be a lot of people
drunk walking along the beach
[1:37:40]
all hours of the day and night.
[1:37:42]
This is we're not
prepared for it.
[1:37:45]
I don't think thunder
presented well.
[1:37:49]
And residents can
always walk in the water
[1:37:51]
so anybody can listen to it.
[1:37:52]
Thank you.
[1:37:53]
But it shouldn't happen.
[1:37:56]
Thank you.
[1:37:57]
Monty Hogue.
[1:38:07]
Hello Monty Hogue,
80 Gulf Boulevard,
[1:38:10]
ST Pete Beach, district one.
[1:38:13]
I've lived on the
beach most of my life.
[1:38:16]
First came here as a kid in
the 60s, and I've seen a lot.
[1:38:19]
Seen a lot of events.
[1:38:20]
I can remember the.
[1:38:21]
I missed the beach goes pops.
[1:38:23]
We had that down
in pass-a-grille.
[1:38:24]
I was actually at the
spin doctors concert.
[1:38:27]
That was a little crowded for
anybody that remembers that.
[1:38:32]
I applaud the mayor and saying,
let's get ourselves back
[1:38:35]
after this storm.
[1:38:35]
I lived through it,
as most of us did,
[1:38:37]
and we'd like to get back and
enjoy some things on life.
[1:38:41]
On the other side, I am a
supporter of the environment.
[1:38:44]
Turtles, birds and
anything else, marine wise.
[1:38:48]
But, going through the
storm, having to rebuild,
[1:38:51]
still seeing many of my
neighbors that are not back,
[1:38:54]
seeing many businesses
that are still not back.
[1:38:57]
We need something.
[1:38:58]
And I think for three days,
and I spoke with MS Edmonds
[1:39:01]
quite a bit when I first
heard this, was announced
[1:39:03]
that the city could
pull it off, and she
[1:39:05]
has a plan to do much of that,
and I look forward to it.
[1:39:09]
And we've had a lot of things
on the beach, as was mentioned
[1:39:13]
by several people, and
they've been successful
[1:39:16]
and we haven't heard any
complaints about those.
[1:39:18]
We've had the
concerts in the park.
[1:39:21]
I think in those three days.
[1:39:23]
I know it is going to be an
issue with turtles and birds,
[1:39:27]
and I would be very
concerned and I
[1:39:28]
hope that things
can be worked out
[1:39:30]
and we can have
this event because I
[1:39:33]
think it's something we need.
[1:39:34]
It'll benefit not
only the businesses,
[1:39:36]
but there's a lot of
residents, unlike what
[1:39:40]
Commissioner Robinson said.
[1:39:42]
I know a lot of people.
[1:39:43]
I've been here most of my life.
[1:39:45]
I have a lot of
friends and neighbors
[1:39:47]
that live on the beach.
[1:39:49]
And when that this was first
announced and mentioned,
[1:39:52]
most everybody, I mean,
actually everybody
[1:39:55]
I've talked to about it
has been in support of it
[1:39:57]
and is looking forward to it.
[1:39:59]
I saw the newspaper article
that came out last week,
[1:40:02]
and I was actually surprised
that there was conflict
[1:40:06]
about it, but I do understand
some of those issues,
[1:40:10]
and I'm hoping that our
city can solve those issues.
[1:40:13]
And we can have a
great event like this.
[1:40:15]
Years ago, I attended a similar
event in Fort Lauderdale
[1:40:19]
that they still have
the tortuga music
[1:40:21]
festival, which actually
benefits a lot of their charity.
[1:40:26]
There is sea turtles.
[1:40:27]
That's a pretty big beach.
[1:40:30]
It happens in April.
[1:40:31]
And maybe if we look
at how they do that
[1:40:34]
and bring it back every
year successfully.
[1:40:36]
And I believe it probably
brings in more people
[1:40:39]
than this one would.
[1:40:41]
So I'm hoping that
we can do something
[1:40:43]
because the city could use it.
[1:40:44]
The residents would
love to have it.
[1:40:47]
As I mentioned,
most of the people
[1:40:48]
I've talked to as far
as friends and neighbors
[1:40:52]
are in support of this as I am,
and I look forward to hopefully
[1:40:56]
being able to attend it.
[1:40:57]
Thank you.
[1:40:58]
Thank you sir.
[1:41:00]
Carrie matryoshka.
[1:41:04]
Thank you.
[1:41:07]
Lisa Reich.
[1:41:16]
Hello Hi, I'm Lisa Reich,
and I'm a displaced ST
[1:41:23]
Pete Beach resident.
[1:41:24]
I'm sorry.
[1:41:24]
Would you give your displaced.
[1:41:25]
Sorry you're about to.
[1:41:26]
I'm sorry.
[1:41:27]
Sorry on Pond Street.
[1:41:31]
Yes, sorry.
[1:41:31]
I apologize.
[1:41:32]
I'm also an avid
conservationist and I
[1:41:37]
have started my own
nonprofit in 2022,
[1:41:40]
I believe, called coastal
wildlife advocacy group,
[1:41:45]
and I've patrolled the
beaches for over 15 years
[1:41:50]
doing sea turtle
patrol, not only
[1:41:52]
here, but also Treasure Island.
[1:41:56]
And I'm also a Audubon
Florida bird Steward.
[1:42:00]
And I also serve on the
board of ST Pete Audubon.
[1:42:04]
I am the conservation chair.
[1:42:08]
Wow unbelievable is a good word.
[1:42:14]
I think the saying is putting
the cart before the horse.
[1:42:18]
All this is moving forward, and
there's no official approval.
[1:42:23]
And so I was.
[1:42:27]
I was sent about 91 documents
in the past 24 hours.
[1:42:32]
And so I reviewed some
of those documents,
[1:42:34]
and I just want to go as quickly
as I can because the common word
[1:42:39]
is complete.
[1:42:40]
You've got to submit a
complete application.
[1:42:46]
I feel that the applicant did
not do their due diligence,
[1:42:52]
and now we're in
a situation where
[1:42:55]
we're talking about
it's going to happen
[1:42:58]
and they're selling tickets.
[1:43:00]
They signed the agreement or the
applicant that says they are not
[1:43:04]
going to advertise
until this is until they
[1:43:07]
have a permit to do so.
[1:43:09]
So there's a lot of
stuff that I've read
[1:43:12]
and I read through the
application again today
[1:43:16]
and it's incomplete.
[1:43:19]
So if you all have
the time, if you
[1:43:21]
haven't looked at
the application,
[1:43:23]
I highly recommend that you do.
[1:43:26]
There's going to be two stages.
[1:43:32]
Country thunder has never
had an event on a beach.
[1:43:37]
And certainly not
during nesting season.
[1:43:42]
So doing all this and paying
for all the performance and all
[1:43:47]
of that is due diligence
that should have been done
[1:43:52]
on the part of the applicant.
[1:43:54]
There's going to be 13
food trucks, the applicant,
[1:43:59]
the application says 21 tents.
[1:44:02]
The actual site plan
shows 50/50 tents.
[1:44:09]
And from what I understand,
the tents require.
[1:44:15]
A permit, if it's over a 10 by
10, that's a lot of permits.
[1:44:21]
If there's certain vehicles,
they require a permit.
[1:44:24]
It goes on and on.
[1:44:26]
Thank you.
[1:44:27]
You're welcome.
[1:44:29]
John kurzman.
[1:44:34]
I was going to attend today.
[1:44:35]
John kurzman I'll be on the way.
[1:44:38]
Thank you.
[1:44:39]
I just want to say that when
I first heard about this,
[1:44:43]
I believe that so many
residents have been suffering
[1:44:47]
and so many businesses
have been suffering.
[1:44:50]
And the desire to get
us back on the map
[1:44:53]
and have people realize
that we are open again
[1:44:56]
and that we are a fun place to
be, I think is very important.
[1:45:00]
I'm not a country music
fan, but I don't care.
[1:45:02]
It's not for me,
it's for everybody.
[1:45:04]
And I think it's
a great concept.
[1:45:07]
I loved it when I went
to Charlie Daniels here.
[1:45:10]
It was great.
[1:45:11]
But I'm concerned
about implementation.
[1:45:15]
Nobody's even discussed this
with beach stewardship yet.
[1:45:18]
First off, I'm only
representing myself.
[1:45:20]
I am a beach Steward,
but I'm not speaking
[1:45:21]
on behalf of beach stewardship.
[1:45:23]
But nobody's come to
them that I know of.
[1:45:26]
I know I've
supported recognizing
[1:45:28]
that this is not the time
that any eggs are hatching.
[1:45:33]
This is the time when
they're just maybe beginning
[1:45:35]
to start laying the eggs.
[1:45:37]
And I've spoken
before about the fact
[1:45:38]
that I prefer that
the turtles not
[1:45:41]
be tricked and realize that
Tradewinds is one of the busiest
[1:45:43]
spots on our beach.
[1:45:44]
And maybe they have three
days to lay their eggs,
[1:45:47]
maybe find another
spot that's better
[1:45:48]
and we might get the rates up.
[1:45:51]
I don't have signs to say
that just as a suspicion,
[1:45:54]
but I also have mentioned
that there's polls at PCI
[1:45:58]
and at Jimmy B's with rope
holes right along the water
[1:46:02]
line or the high water line.
[1:46:04]
And my concern is now when
I hear about the Thunder,
[1:46:08]
they might be
thinking of putting
[1:46:09]
those ropes up in those
rope holes in those polls.
[1:46:12]
And that was the reason to keep
the people off those properties.
[1:46:16]
And now you're
really going to have
[1:46:17]
a traffic jam of the
non-attendees walking
[1:46:21]
along the shoreline.
[1:46:22]
Or maybe they're going to
plan on selling tickets
[1:46:25]
themselves to eavesdrop.
[1:46:27]
I don't but I think we have
to think about those polls.
[1:46:31]
I also, in the past
worked on a Super Bowl,
[1:46:33]
which had 80,000 attendees
from a security standpoint.
[1:46:36]
So I don't want to
be melodramatic,
[1:46:40]
but I have concerns
about ingress and egress,
[1:46:42]
because some of the things I
had to do with 80,000 people
[1:46:44]
or learned about and
I'm also concerned,
[1:46:48]
is it going to be a gun free
zone and they're going to be
[1:46:50]
searching everybody on
the way in, and then
[1:46:52]
they're responsible for the
safety of everybody inside.
[1:46:54]
Or is it just going
to be open and
[1:46:55]
anybody can do what they want.
[1:46:58]
And then lastly, I
calculated that they're
[1:47:01]
going to make in revenue
about 3.5 to $4.5 million
[1:47:05]
in revenue, which is
in jeopardy right now.
[1:47:07]
If it's refused.
[1:47:10]
So maybe the DEP did
us a bit of a favor.
[1:47:13]
And is giving us
time to negotiate.
[1:47:16]
What they will do for the city.
[1:47:18]
I mean, just look.
[1:47:19]
And when I heard
Mandy's presentation,
[1:47:21]
and I read some of these things
and saw how much effort has
[1:47:24]
already been expended by
the city and our staff
[1:47:26]
in researching this.
[1:47:28]
My question is, what
else will you do for us.
[1:47:32]
What will you do.
[1:47:33]
Because this is
impacting the city.
[1:47:35]
You have got a lot
of revenue coming in.
[1:47:37]
Maybe we could share
that a little bit.
[1:47:39]
Thank you.
[1:47:40]
Thank you sir.
[1:47:42]
Layla hello, everybody.
[1:47:52]
Leila bounous hermosita
drive, ST Pete Beach.
[1:47:55]
I just have to say, when I first
heard that Country Thunder was
[1:47:58]
coming here as a young
person, I was like, man,
[1:48:01]
that's going to do great
things for ST Pete Beach,
[1:48:03]
especially after everything
we've been through.
[1:48:06]
We have so many businesses
that need stimulation.
[1:48:11]
Yeah, most of the time people
are going to be in the festival,
[1:48:15]
but as many people have
said, there's going to be
[1:48:18]
people around the festival.
[1:48:21]
Sure I have friends that said,
oh yeah, let's go to the beach,
[1:48:23]
let's go get a boat so
we can be off the beach.
[1:48:27]
That's awesome and cool.
[1:48:28]
But then what I heard
about the dates,
[1:48:31]
I mean, it's pretty
disappointing
[1:48:33]
that Tradewinds decided to do
it, when we have nesting season.
[1:48:39]
And they should
have known better.
[1:48:42]
Granted, if we do it again
and again in a different time
[1:48:45]
of year, fantastic.
[1:48:48]
We don't have that
many things that bring
[1:48:51]
people into ST Pete Beach.
[1:48:53]
Country thunder can bring a lot
of people into ST Pete Beach,
[1:48:58]
and really, that's
something we need.
[1:49:01]
That's going to be all.
[1:49:02]
Thanks, y'all.
[1:49:03]
Thank you.
[1:49:07]
I have no more audience
comments on this topic.
[1:49:09]
OK thank you.
[1:49:13]
My understanding is we
have the next presentation
[1:49:18]
the University of Florida, Levin
College of Law enforcement, law,
[1:49:21]
environment and community
development clinic
[1:49:23]
on the legal
feasibility of a parking
[1:49:25]
based assessment for street
infrastructure funding.
[1:49:35]
Awesome good afternoon.
[1:49:41]
Mayor commissioners.
[1:49:42]
Gil Martinez, community
development senior planner.
[1:49:45]
Just quickly wanted to
make a quick introduction
[1:49:47]
to the University of
Florida Levine school of law
[1:49:50]
and thank them for coming out.
[1:49:52]
They're going to be making
a presentation to you
[1:49:54]
today regarding the feasibility,
the legal defensibility
[1:49:59]
of considering a commercial
parking assessment.
[1:50:03]
This is a presentation.
[1:50:04]
It is a academic
exercise of sort,
[1:50:08]
but it's also important
to note that this
[1:50:10]
is part of our
ongoing collaborations
[1:50:12]
with the University of Florida.
[1:50:15]
They were instrumental in
providing us some key points
[1:50:18]
to consider as we were
going through the finding
[1:50:21]
of necessity that was
recently approved for the CRA.
[1:50:24]
So this is how it's all come
about, and they're here for you.
[1:50:30]
This topic will be brought
back to you when your revenue
[1:50:32]
workshop on April 3, so
there'll be opportunities
[1:50:35]
to further discuss.
[1:50:37]
So with that, I'll turn it over
to Mr. Hawkins and his team
[1:50:41]
from the University of Florida.
[1:50:42]
Thank you.
[1:50:47]
Good evening.
[1:50:48]
My name is Thomas Hawkins.
[1:50:50]
I'll get to some introductory
slides in a second,
[1:50:53]
but I have been thinking
a lot this evening.
[1:50:56]
I served two terms on the
Gainesville city commission.
[1:50:58]
A little bit more
than a decade ago.
[1:51:00]
And throughout the evening.
[1:51:01]
Tonight, I've felt at different
moments, both very fondly
[1:51:04]
nostalgic for that and
also a lot of empathy
[1:51:08]
for the difficult job
that you all have.
[1:51:10]
I won't tell you
which moments which.
[1:51:14]
Well, I'd like to begin by
introducing Olivia gantner,
[1:51:18]
who's here with me, who's a
third year student in a course
[1:51:21]
that I teach at the
University and is
[1:51:23]
going to be delivering part
of the presentation with me.
[1:51:27]
I'm not sure if I mentioned
Olivia is from Florida,
[1:51:30]
is from Pensacola.
[1:51:31]
And also another
one of my students
[1:51:32]
is here, Carissa Allen, who's
a second year student at UF law
[1:51:36]
from Jupiter, Florida.
[1:51:39]
I am the director of the
environmental and community
[1:51:42]
development clinic,
so I'm faculty
[1:51:44]
at the University of Florida
Levin College of Law.
[1:51:46]
I teach a land use course
and have some other roles
[1:51:49]
at the University, but my main
job is teaching this course
[1:51:52]
a clinic in legal education.
[1:51:54]
A clinic is a course
where students
[1:51:56]
gain practical experience
in actual practice of law
[1:52:00]
by working under the
supervision of a faculty member
[1:52:03]
doing legal work.
[1:52:04]
It's typically pro Bono, as it
was in this instance, where we
[1:52:07]
find real world client
needs and projects
[1:52:10]
that students can work
and gain that experience
[1:52:13]
in representation.
[1:52:17]
We have approached working
on this issue using
[1:52:21]
a problem solving framework
that I like to use,
[1:52:24]
called the rational
planning model.
[1:52:26]
It's represented
in this diagram.
[1:52:28]
It is essentially in litigation.
[1:52:33]
So often in the
law we're looking
[1:52:35]
at conflict between parties.
[1:52:37]
And there's always
a win or lose.
[1:52:39]
And working and doing a lot
of local government work.
[1:52:43]
And in policymaking
and in legislation,
[1:52:45]
I think a much different model
is helpful for conceptualizing
[1:52:49]
how to get to solutions.
[1:52:51]
And it's this framework,
the rational planning model.
[1:52:53]
And I want to outline
it very quickly.
[1:52:56]
We start by identifying
a problem in this case
[1:52:59]
that the city of ST Pete Beach,
like many local governments,
[1:53:02]
has a greater needs for
providing maintenance and repair
[1:53:06]
on its roadway infrastructure
than it has funding available,
[1:53:09]
and then moving
through identifying
[1:53:11]
what your values
that should influence
[1:53:13]
solutions to that problem.
[1:53:15]
In this case, we
haven't worked with you
[1:53:16]
to identify your values, but
we've based on some assumptions
[1:53:20]
with conversations
with your staff
[1:53:21]
that they include things
like maintaining your roadway
[1:53:24]
infrastructure in good
repair, not overly
[1:53:27]
increasing costs on
residents, in particular, not
[1:53:29]
increasing taxes on residents.
[1:53:32]
Setting goals which in this
case might be that you have
[1:53:35]
adequate funding
for street repair
[1:53:37]
and then developing
solutions, and you
[1:53:40]
can go further through
that to actually
[1:53:41]
compare multiple solutions
that you developed.
[1:53:44]
We haven't gone that far.
[1:53:45]
We just have one proposed
idea that we've evaluated
[1:53:49]
the legal feasibility of that.
[1:53:51]
We'll present to you tonight.
[1:53:54]
I'm going to skip through these.
[1:53:55]
We prepared more slides that
would be appropriate for a 15
[1:53:58]
minute presentation.
[1:53:59]
So you'll see us skipping
through quite a few of them
[1:54:01]
in order to keep our time
as reasonable as possible.
[1:54:04]
So I want to start with a brief
framing of local government
[1:54:07]
powers and revenue.
[1:54:09]
As in Florida, you have
home rule authority.
[1:54:13]
The legislature
can preempt that.
[1:54:15]
But the base position under the
Florida Constitution since 1968
[1:54:18]
is that local governments
have authority to exercise
[1:54:21]
police powers and act.
[1:54:23]
And while that is the case for
most local government functions,
[1:54:27]
it does not include the
ability to raise revenue.
[1:54:31]
So you cannot charge
your residents
[1:54:33]
a tax unless the state
explicitly authorizes
[1:54:37]
your ability to do that.
[1:54:38]
It sets a cap on
your millage rate.
[1:54:40]
It specifies what taxes
you can charge other
[1:54:42]
than ad valorem
taxes, and you can't
[1:54:44]
operate outside of that box.
[1:54:47]
But other kinds of
local government charges
[1:54:50]
are allowed pursuant to
your home rule authority.
[1:54:53]
For many of these, we also
have statutory authority.
[1:54:57]
But even without
statutory authority,
[1:54:59]
you can adopt assessments
and adopt fees.
[1:55:03]
And we're going to look
specifically at assessments
[1:55:05]
in our proposal this evening.
[1:55:07]
So what is an assessment.
[1:55:10]
An assessment is a
charge that to be
[1:55:13]
an assessment must have two
very specific characteristics.
[1:55:16]
And so if you can't
just call something
[1:55:19]
an assessment and charge
somebody it and that be legal.
[1:55:23]
A court would look and
evaluate well is that charge
[1:55:26]
actually an assessment.
[1:55:27]
And so if you're looking
at gaining revenue
[1:55:31]
through an assessment, you
need to design from the ground
[1:55:33]
up your program to meet
these two criteria.
[1:55:35]
They are any property you assess
must receive a special benefit
[1:55:40]
from a service you provide
funded by that assessment,
[1:55:43]
and that the folks
who you charge
[1:55:44]
an assessment, those
property owners, you
[1:55:46]
have to have fairly apportion
the costs across them.
[1:55:49]
I'm going to turn the
baton over to Olivia
[1:55:51]
now to walk through both of
these in case law research
[1:55:54]
that she's completed
in collaboration
[1:55:57]
with some other law students,
and give a little bit more
[1:55:59]
detail to those ideas.
[1:56:01]
Thank you.
[1:56:02]
So first we're going to look
at the special benefit prong.
[1:56:06]
Sorry first we're going to look
at the special benefit prong
[1:56:09]
of the assessment framework.
[1:56:12]
And all that's required to
satisfy the special benefit
[1:56:16]
prong is a logical relationship
between the services you provide
[1:56:21]
and the benefit that
the property receives.
[1:56:24]
And it needs to be emphasized as
well that it's the property, not
[1:56:27]
the property owner.
[1:56:29]
And other properties
may incidentally
[1:56:31]
benefit without ever
losing the special benefit
[1:56:35]
that property owner has.
[1:56:37]
And we'll have some slides that
cover that a little bit more
[1:56:40]
in depth in a minute.
[1:56:46]
So here's some examples of what
Florida courts have considered
[1:56:49]
to be a special benefit.
[1:56:51]
The first is treating storm
water, where the properties that
[1:56:55]
cause the need for the treatment
are the ones being assessed,
[1:56:59]
and the second one is initiating
beautiful beautification
[1:57:03]
projects within a
subdivision, which then
[1:57:05]
enhances those properties values
that's deemed a special benefit.
[1:57:11]
And then also fire
protection services
[1:57:15]
benefits properties
that may catch
[1:57:17]
on fire at some point in time.
[1:57:21]
And then here are
some other examples.
[1:57:31]
So now we're going to look
at the fair apportionment
[1:57:34]
prong of the assessment test.
[1:57:36]
And both Florida statutes
and Florida courts.
[1:57:40]
So Florida statutes
prescribes the more
[1:57:42]
traditional method of
apportionment which
[1:57:45]
is by front put front footage.
[1:57:48]
But both the statutes
and the courts
[1:57:50]
have allowed it to go beyond
that as long as it's reasonable.
[1:58:03]
And then the main
other important thing
[1:58:06]
to hit for the fair
apportionment is that the amount
[1:58:10]
of the assessment
must be proportional,
[1:58:13]
proportional to the benefit
that the properties received,
[1:58:16]
which means that you
can have a benefit,
[1:58:19]
outweigh the assessment,
but the assessment
[1:58:21]
can never outweigh the benefit.
[1:58:22]
So the amount that the
property owner is charged
[1:58:25]
must be proportional
to the benefit.
[1:58:33]
And then I'm giving it back
to Professor Hawkins now.
[1:58:36]
Thank you.
[1:58:36]
Thank you.
[1:58:39]
So based on the framework
that Olivia laid out,
[1:58:43]
we have pretty broad
authority at local government
[1:58:46]
level to charge assessments.
[1:58:48]
And I want to talk a
little bit about some ways
[1:58:50]
that it's curtailed.
[1:58:51]
First to how broad
the authority is.
[1:58:55]
We have very strong language
from the Florida Supreme Court
[1:59:01]
that courts should uphold
legislative judgment,
[1:59:05]
meaning your judgment as a
legislative body for the city.
[1:59:08]
If you charge an
assessment and you've
[1:59:11]
determined that it provides
a special benefit to property
[1:59:14]
and is fairly apportioned.
[1:59:16]
In other words, the ultimate
decider of that fact
[1:59:19]
ought to be the legislative
body rather than the courts.
[1:59:24]
That said, however, courts
will require evidence
[1:59:28]
to support a determination
that an assessment
[1:59:31]
provides a special benefit
and is fairly apportioned.
[1:59:35]
The specific standard for that
evidence that courts require
[1:59:38]
is that it be competent,
substantial evidence,
[1:59:41]
and that it not be arbitrary.
[1:59:43]
And typically, this is done
through consultants reports who
[1:59:45]
analyze a problem and determine
connections between how you
[1:59:48]
might pay for it and
what benefit it provides
[1:59:50]
to different residents.
[1:59:52]
And this is, I think,
is going to make sense
[1:59:54]
when we talk a little bit
about the specific framework
[1:59:56]
that we suggest is a
feasible one to charge
[1:59:59]
an assessment for street
maintenance and repair,
[2:00:02]
that is charging an assessment
on non-residential parking.
[2:00:07]
A portion, sorry.
[2:00:09]
Charging an
assessment for street
[2:00:11]
repair to the owners of
non-residential parking
[2:00:15]
that's apportioned
by the parking space.
[2:00:18]
So let's just talk really
basically through that idea.
[2:00:23]
Identifying a.
[2:00:28]
Identifying the cost
of providing street
[2:00:30]
repairs in your community.
[2:00:31]
Identifying the benefit that
those street repairs have
[2:00:34]
to non-residential properties,
and then apportioning that cost
[2:00:38]
to each of those properties by
the number of parking spaces
[2:00:41]
that they have.
[2:00:44]
In order for something like
that to pass the standards
[2:00:48]
for assessments in
the state of Florida,
[2:00:50]
you're going to need evidence to
support a few different points.
[2:00:53]
One street maintenance must
have a logical relationship
[2:00:57]
with a benefit to Land
Reserve for parking.
[2:00:59]
Now there is an
internal logic to that.
[2:01:02]
It's somewhat self-evident,
but we can't just rely on what
[2:01:05]
we think might be obvious.
[2:01:07]
We would actually need
to analyze the problem
[2:01:10]
and identify when
we maintain streets.
[2:01:12]
Does that improve the usability
of commercial properties
[2:01:15]
that have parking on them.
[2:01:17]
And that's again, not a
tremendous logical leap,
[2:01:19]
but that is the
analysis that someone
[2:01:21]
would need to go through.
[2:01:24]
Second, we would need to
identify the amount numbers
[2:01:27]
of non-residential parking
spaces on commercial properties
[2:01:30]
throughout the city.
[2:01:31]
If you're apportioning
assessment
[2:01:33]
by that need a good roster
of where the parking exists
[2:01:37]
on which properties and actually
associate that with tax Bills
[2:01:40]
on which somebody would pay.
[2:01:42]
And then finally, you
would need evidence
[2:01:45]
that shows that the actual
amount of the benefit
[2:01:48]
is connected to the amount
of parking that exists
[2:01:50]
on a non-residential property.
[2:01:54]
In addition, an
analysis should show
[2:01:57]
that you have a need
for street maintenance
[2:02:00]
that street maintenance
benefits those non-residential
[2:02:02]
properties, and that the amount
of benefit that you provide
[2:02:08]
to those individual
properties exceeds
[2:02:10]
the cost of any assessment.
[2:02:11]
Now, a lot of that type of work,
I know the city has already
[2:02:14]
done, one of the things that we
reviewed when we were conducting
[2:02:17]
our research was
the Stantec study
[2:02:19]
you did within the
last few years,
[2:02:20]
and I'm blanking
on the name of it,
[2:02:22]
the paving condition index study
that identified exactly the cost
[2:02:27]
of your street maintenance
needs and also identified
[2:02:31]
that under your
current funding, you
[2:02:33]
don't have a way to fund
that problem at the magnitude
[2:02:36]
that it currently exists.
[2:02:40]
I think these are duplicative.
[2:02:42]
So I'm going to go on
to the next section.
[2:02:43]
I want to identify
some cautions.
[2:02:47]
I don't want to lay out this
as a possible source of revenue
[2:02:50]
with only focusing
on the positive.
[2:02:53]
I do think it's very positive.
[2:02:55]
I do think it's
feasible, but I want
[2:02:57]
to identify what some of
the counter considerations
[2:03:00]
would be other than just
that some folks will
[2:03:04]
pay an additional cost
if an assessment exists.
[2:03:07]
One, if you're proposing
to pay for street repair,
[2:03:12]
at least partially
in this manner,
[2:03:14]
that's not a process for
increasing the amount of parking
[2:03:17]
that you have available.
[2:03:18]
We started by
identifying the problem
[2:03:20]
as a street repair problem
and lack of adequate funding
[2:03:24]
to cover it.
[2:03:25]
If you were also identifying
or maybe even identifying
[2:03:29]
as a higher problem, a
lack of available parking,
[2:03:32]
or insufficient
amount of parking.
[2:03:34]
This is not a solution
to that problem.
[2:03:36]
It's not going to encourage
that provision of parking.
[2:03:40]
It also, and I would say
this is on a positive side,
[2:03:43]
it may encourage folks
who own real estate
[2:03:45]
that's underutilized parking.
[2:03:48]
And I thought your suggestion
earlier, Commissioner Marriott,
[2:03:51]
on using some of that
parking for special events
[2:03:53]
was an excellent one.
[2:03:55]
But it may encourage that
be put to a different use
[2:03:59]
if your code that allows for
example, redeveloping portions
[2:04:01]
of parking lots for out partial
development or other kinds
[2:04:04]
of redevelopment.
[2:04:08]
I also want to note
that no methodology.
[2:04:11]
Sorry, no court has considered
this methodology before.
[2:04:13]
It is a novel proposal.
[2:04:15]
So there.
[2:04:16]
You can't rely on a
pre-existing court case based
[2:04:19]
on exactly these kind of facts.
[2:04:22]
However, in the
state of Florida,
[2:04:24]
a local government like
the city of ST Pete
[2:04:26]
can initiate something called a
bond validation proceeding that
[2:04:31]
would allow it to get a decision
from a court on the legality
[2:04:35]
of any kind of a
new charge that it's
[2:04:37]
borrowing money against before
it actually spends that money.
[2:04:41]
So you can limit your
liability to the cost
[2:04:43]
of doing the research
and preparing
[2:04:47]
to charge an assessment.
[2:04:48]
You don't have to go to the
extent of spending money
[2:04:53]
without knowing whether an
assessment framework is legal.
[2:04:55]
And that's very typical
for local governments
[2:04:57]
to do to have a bond
validation proceeding.
[2:05:01]
I also want to note, because
this problem is so pervasive, I
[2:05:06]
think an obvious
question is, well,
[2:05:08]
why don't we have local
governments in Florida
[2:05:11]
either charging
fees for road repair
[2:05:13]
or charging assessments
for road repair.
[2:05:16]
Charging assessments for
road repair is very common,
[2:05:19]
but it's typically done in a
very small portion of a city.
[2:05:22]
Maybe identifying
just the properties
[2:05:24]
that touch on a specific
road, as Olivia described,
[2:05:27]
are traditional or classical.
[2:05:29]
Method of apportionment is
by the number of front feet
[2:05:33]
that a property
fronts on a road.
[2:05:35]
Why don't we have jurisdiction
wide assessments for road repair
[2:05:38]
already.
[2:05:39]
If this problem is so pervasive.
[2:05:40]
So I want to talk a little
bit about two cases that
[2:05:44]
occurred both in the 1990s.
[2:05:48]
One, the city of Port orange
charged a transportation utility
[2:05:52]
fee and a Florida district
court said the characteristics
[2:05:57]
of this charge are more
like a tax than a fee,
[2:06:01]
and therefore your home rule
powers don't allow you to charge
[2:06:04]
this and you can't do this.
[2:06:06]
What we're proposing is very,
very different than that.
[2:06:08]
So I'm not going to go into
detail talking about that case
[2:06:11]
at all.
[2:06:11]
But I do want to talk a little
bit about another case called
[2:06:15]
Hanna versus the
City of Palm Bay
[2:06:17]
from 1991, where
the city of Palm Bay
[2:06:21]
charged a Citywide
assessment for street repair
[2:06:25]
on properties Citywide.
[2:06:28]
And the plan was throughout
the entire jurisdiction.
[2:06:31]
We're going to charge
this assessment
[2:06:32]
and use that revenue
for street repair
[2:06:35]
so that we have a
closed system, and
[2:06:37]
we're not using our
general ad valorem
[2:06:39]
revenue for street repair.
[2:06:41]
And a Florida court determined
that was not lawful.
[2:06:46]
And that's similar enough
to what we're talking about,
[2:06:49]
that I want to go through
identifying ways that it's
[2:06:52]
different because it
is different in ways
[2:06:56]
that I think are
substantial and invalidate
[2:06:59]
the holding and the Hanover
versus the City of Palm Bay
[2:07:02]
case.
[2:07:03]
I'm not going to read this,
but I'll just summarize.
[2:07:06]
In that case, the city of Palm
Bay had cited as its authority
[2:07:11]
for charging the assessment.
[2:07:13]
Florida statutes
and Florida statutes
[2:07:16]
put limitations on your
ability to charge assessments.
[2:07:21]
After the court came
up with this decision,
[2:07:24]
we had the Florida
Supreme Court.
[2:07:27]
So a higher court
than determined
[2:07:29]
the Hanna versus the
City of Palm Bay case.
[2:07:34]
Held in a case called
the City of Boca Raton,
[2:07:37]
that local governments
could charge assessments not
[2:07:41]
pursuant to their
statutory authority,
[2:07:43]
but pursuant to their
home rule authority
[2:07:45]
under the 1968
Florida Constitution.
[2:07:48]
And the legislation that
implements the Constitution.
[2:07:51]
And when that happens,
the restrictions
[2:07:53]
on how you charge assessments
that exist in the statute
[2:07:56]
don't apply.
[2:07:57]
And very explicitly said this.
[2:07:59]
And then after that,
later in the 90s,
[2:08:03]
another district court
specifically evaluated the Hanna
[2:08:06]
case and said the restrictions
in Hanna decision on having
[2:08:11]
a jurisdiction wide assessment
don't apply if the authority
[2:08:16]
for your assessment is your
home rule authority, which
[2:08:19]
is what we would propose here.
[2:08:21]
So I want to mention that
case because the facts are
[2:08:23]
similar enough that
it's worth discussing,
[2:08:26]
but make clear that the
legal analysis in that case
[2:08:31]
doesn't apply.
[2:08:31]
Now that the Florida
Supreme Court has recognized
[2:08:33]
that there's this other
way to this other authority
[2:08:36]
for charging assessments.
[2:08:40]
That's essentially goes
through the same thing.
[2:08:44]
So, so with that, I don't
have a slide for this,
[2:08:46]
but probably a good
summary to say is.
[2:08:54]
I think that this is
a reasonable option
[2:08:56]
to consider because
it generates revenue
[2:08:58]
that the city is
interested in that would
[2:09:00]
be dedicated for street repair.
[2:09:02]
It's also directly targeted
to folks who benefit from it.
[2:09:06]
If the city's interested
in this kind of direction,
[2:09:10]
a next step would be putting
together a request for proposals
[2:09:14]
to have an expert consulting
firm look at those questions
[2:09:18]
that I asked.
[2:09:20]
Can we take our plans for road
repair that we already have,
[2:09:24]
and connect those
improvements specifically
[2:09:27]
to benefits to property where
non-residential parking exists,
[2:09:31]
and go through the
process of supporting
[2:09:33]
that apportionment method.
[2:09:35]
In other words,
continuing to evaluate it,
[2:09:38]
but with a specific
look at the facts
[2:09:40]
that are generated
in your community
[2:09:42]
to ensure that you continue to
meet those requirements in law.
[2:09:47]
And that's we're happy
to answer any questions.
[2:09:49]
And thank you, Commissioner.
[2:09:52]
Mayor questions, please.
[2:09:53]
Yeah one question.
[2:09:55]
And I'm going to probably
stumble over my words
[2:09:58]
and get them wrong because
I'm not used to reading
[2:10:00]
legal documents, but in
part of the presentation
[2:10:05]
and part of the slides that
were kind of skimmed over,
[2:10:08]
which I appreciate you
doing that for time's sake.
[2:10:11]
But in speaking of
fair apportionment,
[2:10:14]
it talks a little bit about
being able to justify why
[2:10:19]
the commercial property
owners that are being charged,
[2:10:22]
the assessment are benefiting
more than the residential,
[2:10:27]
the residents who are not
being charged the assessment
[2:10:30]
but are still
getting the benefit.
[2:10:32]
And I feel like the
examples that were cited
[2:10:36]
talked more about really
ancillary benefits
[2:10:40]
of people who don't
live here at all
[2:10:42]
and are just driving
through town.
[2:10:43]
And the courts have
said that that's fine
[2:10:45]
that those people getting that
benefit, not paying for it
[2:10:48]
is OK.
[2:10:49]
But this particular case
seems a little different to me
[2:10:53]
where you have you're
charging the assessment
[2:10:58]
on commercial spaces, but
you have a very large group
[2:11:01]
of people that are also getting
a very direct benefit from that.
[2:11:04]
And so I was just curious
if you could touch
[2:11:06]
a little bit on
your legal reasoning
[2:11:09]
for why you think that's OK.
[2:11:10]
This is an excellent question.
[2:11:12]
And the first
thing I will say is
[2:11:14]
you could structure an
assessment where you charged
[2:11:18]
every piece of property that
had a parking space apportioned
[2:11:21]
by the parking spaces.
[2:11:24]
One one value that we considered
in contemplating this the way
[2:11:30]
that we did was that there
would likely be an interest
[2:11:33]
on the city's part
in not charging
[2:11:38]
an assessment on
residential property owners
[2:11:42]
to get any revenue.
[2:11:43]
But there's nothing inherent
to the process that would
[2:11:46]
require you to do that way.
[2:11:47]
It's reflective of our
perception that would
[2:11:48]
be a value that you would have.
[2:11:51]
So moving on from that to
the strictly legal question.
[2:11:54]
My understanding of the case law
is that the fair apportionment
[2:11:58]
requirement that the courts have
is that the amount charged is
[2:12:07]
less than the benefit received.
[2:12:09]
And the courts will look
at that for each property
[2:12:14]
owner that pays the charge.
[2:12:16]
They will not look
and say, well,
[2:12:18]
what about that other
person over there.
[2:12:21]
In fact, there's very
explicit language.
[2:12:24]
And you mentioned some of the
cases the folks driving through.
[2:12:27]
I think that was the
Winter Springs case.
[2:12:31]
Thank you.
[2:12:32]
I'm so glad to have Olivia.
[2:12:33]
Thank you.
[2:12:34]
Because I have more
gray in my beard.
[2:12:36]
People think I know
all the information,
[2:12:38]
but that's usually not true.
[2:12:41]
But there's also, I think,
another great quote.
[2:12:44]
I think it was in
the Boca Raton case,
[2:12:45]
or it could have been
the Sarasota case.
[2:12:47]
Both were Florida Supreme Court
cases where the court said
[2:12:50]
it's fine to explicitly exclude
churches from the assessment
[2:12:54]
methodology.
[2:12:55]
And we're not
concerned that they
[2:12:58]
also benefit from the proposal.
[2:13:01]
We're excluding them.
[2:13:02]
And the analysis is not whether
they also get a benefit.
[2:13:05]
The analysis is, hey,
let's look at the folks
[2:13:08]
who are paying the assessment.
[2:13:10]
Do they get a benefit that
exceeds the cost they're paying.
[2:13:13]
They're paying.
[2:13:13]
And so one way to think about
that in if this goes down
[2:13:17]
the road and there's actual
fiscal planning that goes
[2:13:19]
into it, is to recognize you do
have current sources of funding.
[2:13:24]
State share gas tax revenue.
[2:13:26]
What you do put in from
your ad valorem revenue
[2:13:30]
that you would continue
to use to solve
[2:13:33]
your road infrastructure
maintenance backlog.
[2:13:38]
And that the so you're not.
[2:13:41]
You're not creating an
assessment on property owner
[2:13:44]
a to pay for a benefit for
property owner B got it.
[2:13:47]
So the math isn't
just the math is
[2:13:49]
significantly more complicated
than what are our fiscal needs.
[2:13:54]
Let's divide them by the number
of commercial property spots.
[2:13:57]
The math can't be that simple.
[2:13:59]
You're correct.
[2:13:59]
OK thank you.
[2:14:04]
I have a question
for you, please.
[2:14:06]
So I think one of the
general guidelines
[2:14:10]
here is that my commercial
property has to be fronting
[2:14:15]
right upon the road that's
in question that we're
[2:14:17]
going to use our revenue for.
[2:14:18]
Is that correct.
[2:14:20]
I do not believe
that's the case.
[2:14:21]
I think you could have a city
wide road maintenance program
[2:14:26]
that is funded in this way.
[2:14:29]
Again, when you've
studied the problem,
[2:14:33]
the benefit exceeds the
amount of the charge,
[2:14:37]
but there's not there isn't a
test on a geographic proximity.
[2:14:41]
OK I think where I'm
heading with this
[2:14:43]
is I know that we have
a main thoroughfare
[2:14:46]
through ST Pete Beach.
[2:14:47]
Gulf Boulevard, blind pass,
out, out 75th to Pasadena.
[2:14:51]
These are all state owned
roads, are not roads
[2:14:53]
that we maintain right now.
[2:14:54]
We don't have a cost to
the city on those roads.
[2:14:57]
And yet, I know many,
many of our businesses
[2:15:00]
are right adjacent
to those roads.
[2:15:03]
You're telling me that to
maintain roads beyond that one,
[2:15:05]
which aren't in our maintenance
structure right now,
[2:15:08]
we could still theoretically
charge an assessment
[2:15:12]
against those businesses that
don't use that road that we're
[2:15:16]
maintaining that's literally a
quarter mile away in the back
[2:15:18]
of some neighborhood somewhere.
[2:15:19]
Is that what you're
suggesting to me.
[2:15:20]
Yes and the way to
think about this,
[2:15:23]
and again, you
would need somebody
[2:15:26]
with the professional
credentials
[2:15:27]
to make this analysis.
[2:15:28]
I'm not that person.
[2:15:29]
But I've given enough
thought to maybe sketch
[2:15:31]
some of the outer perimeters.
[2:15:33]
Is the folks who go
to those businesses,
[2:15:36]
they don't just travel
on Gulf Boulevard.
[2:15:38]
And our transportation system,
you've got feeder roads,
[2:15:41]
collector roads, arterioles.
[2:15:42]
You don't just get
where you're going
[2:15:44]
by driving along the arterial.
[2:15:46]
That might be the last step
in your transportation trip.
[2:15:50]
But of course, all
those other roads
[2:15:52]
work together as a network.
[2:15:54]
Gulf Boulevard doesn't work if
the other roads don't also work.
[2:15:57]
Understood thank you.
[2:16:02]
Thank you very much
for your time today.
[2:16:04]
We appreciate it.
[2:16:04]
And I'll just close
by saying we really
[2:16:06]
appreciate the opportunity
to interact with you.
[2:16:08]
Your city manager has just
been absolutely fantastic.
[2:16:11]
Gil has been absolutely
fantastic in giving us
[2:16:13]
their time so that we had
the information we needed
[2:16:16]
to go through this research,
and it's been a great experience
[2:16:18]
for the students.
[2:16:19]
Professor Hawkins MS
Gunther, thank you so much
[2:16:21]
for your analysis today.
[2:16:23]
We appreciate you.
[2:16:24]
Thank you.
[2:16:24]
Thank you.
[2:16:27]
OK city clerk, I understand the
next presentation is the Boca
[2:16:30]
ciega drive reconstruction.
[2:16:31]
Design direction.
[2:16:39]
Thought you were going
to give the presentation.
[2:16:44]
Yes good evening.
[2:16:47]
Mayor commissioners.
[2:16:49]
For the record, Camden Mills,
public services director.
[2:16:51]
I appreciate your
time this evening
[2:16:53]
to discuss the Boca ciega
drive reconstruction project
[2:16:56]
and appreciate your feedback
to guide us on progressing
[2:17:00]
the design on this project.
[2:17:03]
So the project limits that
we're looking for here is from
[2:17:07]
75th Avenue to 87th Avenue.
[2:17:10]
Currently, this roadway is
posted speed limit of 25.
[2:17:14]
The pavement is in
a poor condition.
[2:17:17]
The reclaimed water services
throughout this corridor
[2:17:20]
are at the end of
useful life, and
[2:17:22]
there is minimal
drainage infrastructure
[2:17:25]
throughout these limits.
[2:17:28]
This typical section here.
[2:17:30]
This just shows you a rough
idea of the area between
[2:17:33]
77th Avenue and 80th Avenue.
[2:17:36]
I kind of want to lay out what
our existing conditions are,
[2:17:39]
what was previously designed,
and then an alternative
[2:17:42]
that was previously presented.
[2:17:45]
So in these existing conditions,
we have a 60 foot right of way,
[2:17:49]
about 11 foot travel lanes.
[2:17:51]
On the West Side.
[2:17:52]
We have a three foot shoulder.
[2:17:53]
And then on the
East side, we have
[2:17:55]
a 2 foot shoulder with curb.
[2:17:57]
And then on the West
side of the right of way,
[2:18:00]
there is an existing
sidewalk that
[2:18:02]
ranges from 4 to feet in width.
[2:18:05]
So in total here we have about
26 foot of actual pavement width
[2:18:09]
and about 29 feet
from Curb to curb.
[2:18:14]
This typical section here shows
you in that same area between
[2:18:18]
77th and 80th Avenue,
of what was previously
[2:18:22]
designed for this project.
[2:18:24]
So this project, the goals were
to achieve lower vehicle speeds
[2:18:28]
and then also to increase
pedestrian and bicycle safety.
[2:18:33]
With this proposed layout,
the curb to curb width
[2:18:37]
decreased from about
29 feet down to 24.
[2:18:41]
The scope of this
project included
[2:18:44]
the 10 foot wide
travel lanes in lieu
[2:18:46]
of the 11 foot existing lanes.
[2:18:49]
It included a 10 foot
wide multi-use path
[2:18:52]
that would be utilized by
pedestrians and bicycles.
[2:18:55]
And then the project also
proposed new curbs and gutters,
[2:18:59]
new reclaimed water service,
new stormwater infrastructure,
[2:19:03]
as well as landscaping.
[2:19:05]
As I mentioned, this
project was previously
[2:19:07]
designed and permitted.
[2:19:09]
We advertised a request for
bid for construction services
[2:19:13]
back in December of 2023.
[2:19:16]
That closed in February of
24 and 2 bids were received.
[2:19:20]
The low bid that was
received was at $5.4 million.
[2:19:24]
And just to give you a rough
summary on the breakdown
[2:19:27]
of that, the roadway
components of that 5.4
[2:19:30]
was about $2.2 million dollars.
[2:19:32]
The sidewalk component
was about 462,000.
[2:19:36]
And then the drainage
infrastructure,
[2:19:39]
including the new curb and
gutters, was about $1.3 million.
[2:19:44]
This contract was brought to
the city commission for approval
[2:19:47]
in March of 2024,
and at that time,
[2:19:51]
the construction contract was
not approved to move forward.
[2:19:55]
Some of the feedback received
from looking at those meeting
[2:19:59]
minutes was really the main
concern was to repave the road
[2:20:02]
and prepare those conditions,
fix sidewalks where necessary,
[2:20:09]
leave the width of the road
with the width of the road
[2:20:12]
alone, and then
put in speed tables
[2:20:14]
and then ultimately reduce
cost after the feedback
[2:20:19]
from that March
meeting was received.
[2:20:21]
The engineer consultant
that designed that project
[2:20:24]
took that feedback in hand and
proposed a new alternative,
[2:20:29]
essentially that alternative.
[2:20:30]
The main change there was
decreasing that 10 foot
[2:20:32]
wide sidewalk down to 5 foot.
[2:20:35]
So keeping in line with
the traffic calming
[2:20:38]
measures to narrow
the pavement width
[2:20:40]
and narrow those travel lanes.
[2:20:42]
So again, the scope included
the 10 foot wide travel
[2:20:45]
lanes as the traffic
calming measure,
[2:20:47]
the 5 foot wide sidewalk.
[2:20:49]
And it still included the
new curbs and gutters,
[2:20:52]
the new reclaimed water
service and the stormwater
[2:20:55]
infrastructure and landscaping.
[2:20:58]
These following
slides, these just
[2:21:00]
show that same type of design
with moving from that 10 foot
[2:21:04]
wide multi-use
path and narrowing
[2:21:06]
it down similar to
existing conditions
[2:21:08]
with that 5 foot sidewalk.
[2:21:11]
So here is from
75th Avenue to 76.
[2:21:14]
You can see the turn
lane there, and also
[2:21:17]
an existing sidewalk on the
East side of the right of way.
[2:21:21]
Then we moved to between
76 Avenue and 77th Avenue.
[2:21:25]
Again, you see the 5 foot wide
existing sidewalks and then
[2:21:29]
in the shared use travel
lanes that would be
[2:21:31]
used by bicycles and vehicles.
[2:21:34]
Then we moved to 77th
Avenue to 80th again.
[2:21:38]
What you'll notice here
with that decreased pavement
[2:21:40]
width moving from
that 29 foot curb
[2:21:43]
to curb down to
around 24 foot, that
[2:21:46]
allowed for
additional open space
[2:21:48]
for stormwater improvements.
[2:21:52]
And then from 80th Avenue to
87th Avenue again here that
[2:21:56]
additional reducing
that curb width allowed
[2:21:58]
for some additional open space.
[2:22:00]
And in this cut section here
you see a swale proposed.
[2:22:04]
So tonight staff would
like to seek Commission's
[2:22:07]
direction on next steps.
[2:22:09]
In your recommendations for
what type of typical section
[2:22:12]
we reference so we can
progress with the design.
[2:22:15]
We outlined a few
options here to consider.
[2:22:18]
Option A is the original design
that was previously designed
[2:22:21]
and permitted, with the 10
foot travel lanes and the 10
[2:22:24]
foot wide multi-use path.
[2:22:27]
Option B That is the previous
alternative that the engineer
[2:22:31]
updated, where they reduced
that sidewalk from the 10 feet
[2:22:34]
down to the 5 foot, but
still kept the 10 foot
[2:22:37]
wide shared use travel lanes
and some of those traffic
[2:22:40]
calming measures.
[2:22:42]
And then option C, we're open
to consider any additional
[2:22:45]
alternatives that you see fit.
[2:22:48]
For instance, we could
keep the conditions
[2:22:50]
as is and not have stormwater
or traffic calming improvements.
[2:22:56]
As far as timeline.
[2:22:57]
Our goal would be to update
the design in fiscal year 26,
[2:23:01]
so we could move towards
procurement in fiscal year
[2:23:03]
27 when full funding
is available.
[2:23:06]
And then the construction
time frame for this project
[2:23:08]
would be about 18 months.
[2:23:10]
That's based on the prior
contract bid that we received.
[2:23:14]
I would note that we
do have a $1.5 million
[2:23:17]
grant from the Florida
Department of Transportation
[2:23:21]
that expires in
September of 2027.
[2:23:25]
Some of those components
of that grant requirement
[2:23:28]
of what was outlined
in that scope
[2:23:30]
was replacing the
curb and gutter.
[2:23:32]
Reducing the risk.
[2:23:33]
The width of the travel lane.
[2:23:35]
Adding a mid-block crossing
near the recreational center.
[2:23:39]
Having the shared lane.
[2:23:41]
Bicycle markings.
[2:23:42]
Having a landscaped buffer
between the sidewalk
[2:23:45]
and the travel lane.
[2:23:47]
Adding speed tables at 77th
Avenue and 84th Avenue, as well
[2:23:52]
as an 8 foot wide sidewalk.
[2:23:54]
So if we were going to deviate
from the scope in that grant,
[2:23:58]
we would report that back to the
FDOT for their consideration.
[2:24:05]
Staff's recommendation
based on the feedback
[2:24:08]
that I was able to
review at the meeting,
[2:24:10]
minutes would be option B.
I think that keeps in line
[2:24:13]
with the intent of the
grant that was awarded,
[2:24:16]
where we're providing
the stormwater benefits
[2:24:18]
and the traffic
calming benefits.
[2:24:20]
But it also eliminates that 10
foot wide shared use sidewalk
[2:24:24]
and keeps in line with more of
the existing 5 foot sidewalk.
[2:24:28]
Keeping that existing sidewalk
width we wouldn't have to.
[2:24:32]
Replace the sidewalk all the
way throughout the corridor.
[2:24:34]
We'd be able to.
[2:24:35]
Kind prioritize
where that sidewalk
[2:24:37]
needs to be replaced
in an effort
[2:24:39]
to try and cut down costs there.
[2:24:42]
But with that, I'm
open to any feedback
[2:24:44]
or recommendations you have.
[2:24:49]
Commissioner Robinson.
[2:24:50]
Have we thought about I mean, I
was involved in this initially
[2:24:54]
because it was Boca
ciega drive, but it
[2:24:57]
ended up being on that side.
[2:24:58]
But I know everybody was
against the 10 foot sidewalk
[2:25:03]
simply because it's such a
short driveway that anybody
[2:25:08]
on that does have already.
[2:25:10]
So it kind of forced the
back end of your car to be
[2:25:13]
in the middle of a sidewalk.
[2:25:15]
With that also said, I think
the main things were exactly
[2:25:19]
as you pointed out, which
haven't changed, which
[2:25:22]
is paving the road and
getting traffic calming
[2:25:25]
and fixing the stormwater.
[2:25:28]
The question I have
is I like the idea
[2:25:29]
of using the existing
sidewalks, but I don't believe
[2:25:32]
they're 5 foot right now.
[2:25:33]
Are they.
[2:25:34]
Some are.
[2:25:34]
Some are four foot.
[2:25:35]
So where this 4 foot we would
expand which is within ADA
[2:25:41]
compliance anyway at 48.
[2:25:43]
Correct So you're fine there.
[2:25:47]
So keeping the existing
sidewalks and doing maintenance.
[2:25:50]
That's what we haven't
seen done on them.
[2:25:53]
I'm a temporary living
in a different community
[2:25:56]
and they definitely do
maintenance on their sidewalks.
[2:25:58]
They've replaced they've
done a lot of work on that.
[2:26:02]
So I've been very
impressed on that.
[2:26:04]
But the 210 foot lanes.
[2:26:06]
I like that idea to gain
because that will add
[2:26:11]
to the traffic calming
and also will gain
[2:26:14]
get a bit of a 2 foot gain.
[2:26:17]
Is there a way to stick a
5 foot bike lane in there.
[2:26:21]
A bike lane would
be a little bit
[2:26:23]
difficult to fit in that width.
[2:26:25]
Now, there's this three foot
shoulder that's currently
[2:26:28]
being utilized as a bike lane.
[2:26:29]
But according to the
design standards,
[2:26:32]
it doesn't meet the width.
[2:26:33]
A bike lane would need to
be four foot wide minimum,
[2:26:36]
and if there's a barrier or
curb right up against that,
[2:26:39]
then it would need
to be 5 foot wide.
[2:26:41]
So in this typical section
with the layout that we have,
[2:26:45]
if we would look to have that
minimum four foot wide bike
[2:26:48]
lane on each side, then
our travel lanes would be
[2:26:51]
reduced to about 9 foot wide.
[2:26:52]
I'm talking one bike lane,
not two 1 5 foot bike lane.
[2:26:56]
So if you do 210 foot, which
there are currently 11,
[2:27:00]
you gain two feet there and
then it's currently three foot.
[2:27:03]
So then if you add that 2 to the
3' you get a 5 foot bike lane.
[2:27:08]
The bike lane,
you could do that.
[2:27:09]
Your bike lane would be one way.
[2:27:11]
You wouldn't be
you wouldn't have
[2:27:12]
a two way bike lane with that.
[2:27:14]
But yeah, but that's certainly
the usage is something else.
[2:27:17]
I mean, as far as it actually
being I understand it being one
[2:27:21]
way or considered one way, but
we also talk about shouldn't
[2:27:25]
be riding on sidewalks.
[2:27:27]
And then the last director
said that people can ride
[2:27:31]
on sidewalks on their bikes.
[2:27:33]
And I see people walking or
driving or riding their bikes
[2:27:38]
in the opposite direction
or towards oncoming
[2:27:41]
traffic all the time.
[2:27:43]
I mean, it's something
that's not really policed,
[2:27:46]
but it does happen.
[2:27:47]
But just a thought to add
that bike lane in there
[2:27:50]
and whether the community,
because there was
[2:27:52]
a lot of conversation
about having
[2:27:55]
a bike lane up and down from
all the way down the connector.
[2:28:00]
OK Mr. Causey.
[2:28:06]
Camden so current
flooding complaints.
[2:28:14]
So this is part of this
is to address the flooding
[2:28:18]
improvements for the road.
[2:28:19]
Where is there
residential or otherwise.
[2:28:23]
Complaints about the
water on the road.
[2:28:27]
Yes, sir.
[2:28:28]
And in particularly standing
water, after rainfall events,
[2:28:32]
the water kind of pools
and accumulates in an area,
[2:28:35]
adding that curb and gutter
to direct that flow and then
[2:28:38]
ultimately into some retention
areas or underground storage
[2:28:42]
would be proposed
in this project.
[2:28:44]
So you possibly could solve that
with just repaving and grading
[2:28:49]
where it runs off to some.
[2:28:51]
I mean, it goes nowhere
now, because there's
[2:28:55]
no storm drains there.
[2:28:57]
There is some storm
drains, but it's minimal.
[2:29:00]
What was proposed in
the previous design
[2:29:02]
was to add additional
curb inlets.
[2:29:04]
And then with moving that
West Side curb line tighter.
[2:29:08]
So to reduce that
pavement, that created
[2:29:10]
some additional open space.
[2:29:11]
So there's some areas
where the pavement there
[2:29:14]
was curb cuts so runoff
would be able to flow.
[2:29:17]
And then infiltrate into those
open space grassed areas.
[2:29:22]
So if we were to keep
conditions existing the same
[2:29:25]
and keep the curb
exactly where it is,
[2:29:27]
it does alleviate the
ability to provide
[2:29:29]
some of that extra
stormwater runoff benefit.
[2:29:32]
So you're looking at running
water off into the side
[2:29:36]
with a depression on the side.
[2:29:38]
And there's not an outfall
going into the canal.
[2:29:42]
Eventually there
it would be swale.
[2:29:44]
Swale that would be
interconnected to an inlet
[2:29:47]
that would ultimately
discharge to the Bay.
[2:29:51]
And the other question is, as
far is that part of that road
[2:29:55]
seems to be used for
Heron events for parking.
[2:30:00]
For you repeat that please.
[2:30:01]
I believe I see a lot of
people parking along there
[2:30:05]
for the events that
happen at the park,
[2:30:09]
and I was just curious to know
what effect that would have,
[2:30:13]
if any, on parking if we
made the roads smaller,
[2:30:19]
or we add a bike lane or
any changes we make to it,
[2:30:24]
we would try to
maintain the same areas
[2:30:26]
that we have parking currently.
[2:30:28]
If there be any
impacts to parking,
[2:30:29]
we'd certainly present that.
[2:30:31]
So I have you guys
thought about the parking
[2:30:34]
relative to park
events right now.
[2:30:37]
I believe the current design
was to maintain the side street
[2:30:41]
parking where there currently
is, where the angled parking is.
[2:30:46]
I don't believe it
proposed additional parking
[2:30:48]
for special events.
[2:30:50]
That's all right.
[2:30:55]
Are you asking
about the parking.
[2:30:57]
Not in the parking space.
[2:30:58]
I am, I am, I am asking about.
[2:31:00]
So when you narrow the
road, what I'm assuming,
[2:31:03]
would that turn into
a no parking zone.
[2:31:05]
It could.
[2:31:06]
And it would have
a more defined curb
[2:31:08]
than what's there currently.
[2:31:10]
The curb that is there now
is easily drivable to ramp
[2:31:14]
up onto that open space area.
[2:31:16]
If you had a more defined curb
and a different curb type,
[2:31:20]
you'd probably have people less
willing to drive up over that.
[2:31:23]
Well, have you is
there any consideration
[2:31:26]
for allowing for parking for
accommodate the park events.
[2:31:30]
Because it seems to be a big we
haven't got into that far detail
[2:31:35]
at this point.
[2:31:36]
We're kind of just high
level typical section
[2:31:39]
discussion Mr. Marriott sure.
[2:31:44]
Thanks, Camden.
[2:31:45]
So I have a couple questions
and I think you just answer it
[2:31:48]
in one of them, which is
that anywhere where there is
[2:31:51]
currently only street
parking for residential uses
[2:31:56]
that would be maintained
regardless of what we're
[2:31:59]
calling a typical section.
[2:32:01]
So there's a condo between
77th and 78th where all
[2:32:08]
of their parking is on the sides
of Boca ciega on both the East
[2:32:13]
and West sides of the street.
[2:32:16]
And then further down
Boca ciega at about.
[2:32:22]
Oh, gosh.
[2:32:22]
Where is it between 80th
and 81st or 81st and 82nd?
[2:32:28]
There are several little
fourplexes and duplexes
[2:32:31]
that have absolutely no
parking, except for parking
[2:32:34]
on the West side of Boca ciega.
[2:32:37]
And so, regardless
of any direction
[2:32:40]
we give about a typical section,
would all of that parking
[2:32:43]
get maintained.
[2:32:44]
That's correct.
[2:32:45]
Yep so between in
that 77 to 70 8
[2:32:48]
Avenue, that angled
parking would
[2:32:50]
be proposed to be maintained.
[2:32:52]
And then around
80th, that parallel
[2:32:54]
parking on the West Side would
be proposed to be maintained.
[2:32:56]
OK perfect.
[2:32:57]
And then the other concerns that
I've heard from residents who
[2:33:01]
live on that street
with going to a 10 foot
[2:33:05]
shared travel lane, is that one.
[2:33:09]
Once you have a 10
foot lane with a really
[2:33:10]
defined curb and gutter.
[2:33:12]
You no longer have anywhere
for a landscaping truck with
[2:33:17]
a trailer to get off the road.
[2:33:19]
So as soon as you
have somebody have
[2:33:22]
a landscape guy pull up with his
trailer and unload his mowers.
[2:33:26]
He is in the travel lane,
completely in the travel lane
[2:33:29]
because it's 10 foot right
up to the curb and gutter.
[2:33:32]
And then when you combine
that with the school
[2:33:34]
drop off line in the
morning, all of a sudden you
[2:33:39]
have a road that probably
nobody can even know.
[2:33:42]
Nobody can get down
either direction.
[2:33:44]
And so those are
the biggest concerns
[2:33:48]
that I've heard from residents
with the 10 foot travel lanes.
[2:33:51]
And that real defined
curb and gutter
[2:33:53]
is that we're going
to create a situation
[2:33:55]
where we're going to cause more
problems than we're solving.
[2:34:00]
And I know that the
residents on Boca ciega
[2:34:02]
are definitely concerned
about the speed of travel.
[2:34:04]
That is one of their concerns.
[2:34:06]
But I don't think anybody wants
to turn the speed of travel
[2:34:10]
from too fast to 0 because you
can't get down the road at all.
[2:34:16]
And so, I'm not certain
what the answer to that
[2:34:22]
is other than we keep the road
and the extra wide like an
[2:34:29]
extra wide gutter that we have.
[2:34:32]
So that.
[2:34:33]
So that's a more traveled road.
[2:34:37]
Unless we're going to do
something crazy make it one way
[2:34:40]
and force the school drop off
to go the other direction.
[2:34:45]
But if we're not going to
force the school drop off to go
[2:34:49]
the other way or make the street
southbound only North of 77th
[2:34:54]
or something like that, I don't
see how we make the lanes 10
[2:34:59]
feet wide and still keep it
usable for the way people
[2:35:02]
live in the neighborhood.
[2:35:04]
Understood so I have
just a few comments.
[2:35:11]
I think about as much as I
like the idea of a bike lane,
[2:35:16]
if we can't accommodate
two separate bike lanes,
[2:35:18]
I fear two bikers
coming at each other.
[2:35:21]
One of them comes out into
the road or something.
[2:35:22]
And now we've got an issue where
somebody went avoiding a bike
[2:35:26]
and ended up in
the road somewhere.
[2:35:28]
So I like the idea.
[2:35:29]
I like the thinking.
[2:35:30]
I just worry about that from a
perspective, what I did here.
[2:35:34]
I like the storm, stormwater,
storm, fallout, outfalls.
[2:35:37]
I'd love to see that increased
and get better drainage off
[2:35:41]
of our streets in general.
[2:35:42]
So I'm generally a
proponent of that.
[2:35:45]
What I'm hearing is that there's
significant concerns that
[2:35:49]
have been expressed
by the commissioners
[2:35:51]
to my right about traffic being
able to get off that road.
[2:35:55]
And in the instance that a
maintenance truck or something
[2:35:57]
needs to get off the road,
must we have a very hard curb
[2:36:00]
cut like that that's
straight up and down,
[2:36:02]
or can we still have
outfalls and still
[2:36:04]
have all the things
we're talking about
[2:36:05]
and not have a
really hard curb cut.
[2:36:07]
We could look at different
curb options there.
[2:36:10]
OK OK.
[2:36:13]
OK I think there currently
a drop curb on one side
[2:36:17]
and a regular curb on the other.
[2:36:18]
Correct yeah.
[2:36:19]
So you're basically
keeping the same.
[2:36:23]
Thank you.
[2:36:26]
Is there a way to consider
adding additional parking
[2:36:30]
along that road on one
side or the other, instead
[2:36:33]
of the grass median.
[2:36:35]
We can look into that.
[2:36:37]
I'd have to look into
the design further
[2:36:38]
before I can commit
one way or the other,
[2:36:40]
but we can explore that.
[2:36:46]
Thank you.
[2:36:47]
We appreciate your time today.
[2:36:48]
Thank you.
[2:36:48]
I just want to
clarify, I'm not sure I
[2:36:50]
heard you need to give them
some direction on anything.
[2:36:53]
OK Yep sorry.
[2:36:55]
So just for clarity,
it doesn't sound
[2:36:58]
like you like any of the
options that we've presented.
[2:37:00]
And you want us to go back
and redesign considerations
[2:37:05]
of different curb cuts.
[2:37:06]
More parking.
[2:37:10]
I'll say this I
personally like option
[2:37:11]
B with different curb cuts.
[2:37:13]
I don't like the
straight up down.
[2:37:14]
I think what I heard is that
may cause us other problems
[2:37:18]
that maybe we
weren't anticipating.
[2:37:19]
So I like the idea of option B
with a curb cut where feasible.
[2:37:24]
But, yeah, I think option
A is a definite no.
[2:37:29]
I don't think anybody's in favor
of option AI think option B is
[2:37:37]
reasonable if we
have a way to not
[2:37:42]
force somebody who's stopping
on the road to block traffic.
[2:37:46]
And if that's some kind of
different curb gutter system
[2:37:50]
that allows people to pull
a little bit off the side
[2:37:53]
of the road or a little
bit bigger shoulder,
[2:38:01]
I don't know what the
right words are, I guess.
[2:38:03]
But are you essentially
looking for the use
[2:38:06]
as it is right now, where
someone parks not really
[2:38:09]
in someone's driveway, but they
pull halfway over the driveway.
[2:38:13]
Yeah cut out.
[2:38:14]
Yeah and are you camden?
[2:38:17]
Are you saying that's feasible
for drainage purposes.
[2:38:21]
I think we can look into that.
[2:38:22]
Yeah OK.
[2:38:23]
I think we can take option B
and modify it based on some
[2:38:26]
of these recommendations.
[2:38:28]
OK I would point, since
that design was done,
[2:38:32]
there was a lot of effort and
money put into that design.
[2:38:35]
So as much as we can keep
some of those components,
[2:38:37]
that's going to help the project
timeline and cost overall.
[2:38:39]
Yeah I agree.
[2:38:42]
I like saving the money
on the lesser of not
[2:38:46]
doing the 10 foot sidewalks.
[2:38:48]
That's going to be huge too.
[2:38:50]
And just to confirm, we're not
looking at another bike lane.
[2:38:53]
No one way bike.
[2:38:54]
So the only design change
Camden's looking at
[2:38:58]
is this curb cut out on one side
that can allow pull off the road
[2:39:04]
and maybe look into if
it should be parking.
[2:39:10]
I think we probably
only need that to 78th.
[2:39:13]
We don't need
parking on that road.
[2:39:15]
The entire length you're
just talking about close
[2:39:17]
to the community center.
[2:39:19]
Wherever you think
they use it already.
[2:39:22]
And you mentioned
landscapers pulling off.
[2:39:24]
Yeah, I guess they're
parking on the grass.
[2:39:26]
Partly, yeah.
[2:39:31]
And I think already
in your designs is
[2:39:34]
increased stormwater outfalls.
[2:39:36]
That's already kind of baked in.
[2:39:37]
Yes it's about curb cuts.
[2:39:38]
So yes.
[2:39:39]
All right.
[2:39:39]
Yeah thank you.
[2:39:41]
Thank you.
[2:39:48]
Just a reminder to please
speak into the microphones
[2:39:50]
when you're speaking.
[2:39:51]
Sorry, Renee.
[2:39:54]
All right.
[2:39:55]
Next, I think we have a
presentation on the permit
[2:39:57]
process update from Laura.
[2:39:59]
We appreciate your
patience, Laura.
[2:40:00]
Thank you.
[2:40:09]
Good evening, Mayor
and commissioners.
[2:40:11]
Laura canary, community
development director.
[2:40:14]
This evening I'm going to
be giving the update along
[2:40:16]
with the innovation
or excuse me,
[2:40:18]
technology strategy
and innovation
[2:40:19]
director, Candice Galloway.
[2:40:21]
She's really been helping
and instrumental in all
[2:40:24]
of these process improvements.
[2:40:25]
So I'm going to begin by
just going over again.
[2:40:28]
Just a refresher.
[2:40:29]
This is technically
the 90 day update.
[2:40:31]
So since these series of
recommendations and process
[2:40:34]
improvement recommendations
came forward,
[2:40:37]
we said that we'd
come back in 90 days
[2:40:38]
and give you all an update.
[2:40:40]
We did come back and give you
a mini update a couple meetings
[2:40:43]
ago, but this is that official
90 day progress update
[2:40:46]
to show you what we've
achieved and what
[2:40:48]
we still have ahead of us.
[2:40:50]
Thank you.
[2:40:51]
So beginning with the
volunteer exit interviews,
[2:40:54]
these were interviews that we
conducted with the community
[2:40:56]
development volunteers who
participated in helping with all
[2:41:00]
of our permit processing and
all of the substantial damage
[2:41:03]
determinations and all of that
here in the lobby at City Hall
[2:41:06]
in the aftermath of the storms.
[2:41:08]
And those interviews were,
first of all, very eye opening,
[2:41:12]
because number
one, they were very
[2:41:15]
aligned with what we had heard
with our internal stakeholders
[2:41:17]
as well.
[2:41:18]
And so what we've done is
what you see on the screen
[2:41:21]
is I'll call them the key
opportunities for improvement.
[2:41:24]
But this is really as we
synthesize all of the input
[2:41:28]
that we received and looked
for those common denominators.
[2:41:31]
These are our key takeaways.
[2:41:32]
So again just creating those
simple permitting roadmaps,
[2:41:35]
providing timeline
transparency, introducing
[2:41:39]
automated notifications
for permit status changes.
[2:41:42]
So where the applicant would
actually receive a notification
[2:41:45]
when something
changes in the portal,
[2:41:47]
standardized communication
templates across staff
[2:41:50]
and volunteers, and then
expand volunteer training
[2:41:53]
and reference materials.
[2:41:55]
We did hear over and over
again, frankly, that people were
[2:41:57]
kind of just thrown into it.
[2:41:59]
There was one day
of training, which
[2:42:01]
they had and were
very grateful for,
[2:42:03]
but so many lessons learned.
[2:42:05]
And one of the other key
takeaways is that moving
[2:42:07]
forward, as we begin to
do our internal training,
[2:42:11]
as far as with 4Runner
and substantial damage
[2:42:13]
determinations, and
at certain points,
[2:42:15]
it's going to make sense
to engage those volunteers
[2:42:18]
continuously
throughout the year,
[2:42:19]
not to wait until an event
happens so that again,
[2:42:22]
we can all be more
prepared together for.
[2:42:26]
Next, establishing
standards of communication.
[2:42:29]
This was what we
ultimately rolled
[2:42:31]
into what we're referring to as
our customer service standards.
[2:42:34]
And so our customer
service standards
[2:42:35]
are something that all of
our employees adhere to.
[2:42:38]
And it's also given us
that SOP moving forward
[2:42:42]
and shows, what our expectations
are from our permit techs
[2:42:45]
and all of our staff and
the kind of public service
[2:42:48]
that we want to deliver.
[2:42:52]
For servicing, same day permits
again, same day permits.
[2:42:56]
I just want to emphasize that
we also will refer to them as
[2:43:00]
express permits, because
sometimes they're actually
[2:43:02]
they come in maybe
late in the day
[2:43:03]
and they're issued the next day.
[2:43:05]
Those types of permits that are
currently being issued as what
[2:43:08]
we would refer to
as an express permit
[2:43:11]
include water heaters,
panel upgrades,
[2:43:13]
electric meters and specific
mechanical change outs.
[2:43:17]
So when we think of
what can and can't be
[2:43:19]
it really comes down to the
complexity of a project.
[2:43:22]
So of course, sometimes if
it's an equal change out,
[2:43:25]
yes, much more expedited.
[2:43:26]
But if there's drawings
engineer drawings required,
[2:43:29]
that's where you can
anticipate a longer review time
[2:43:31]
and not that same
day permit issuance.
[2:43:35]
And then as far as streamlining
the guidance and outreach
[2:43:39]
on our really just the
timelines and the instructions
[2:43:43]
and eligibility for contractors
and residents to as far as what
[2:43:49]
types of permits can
be issued same day.
[2:43:51]
One of the things
that we're doing,
[2:43:52]
and we'll get to
this in a minute,
[2:43:54]
is we have a series of website
updates and improvements
[2:43:57]
that we've been making.
[2:43:58]
So we're almost to what
I think of as the fun
[2:44:01]
part of really making it more
of a revamped and dynamic pages.
[2:44:07]
The first kind of stage was
really the cleanup and then
[2:44:10]
the regulatory
stance, but next will
[2:44:13]
be that really getting
showcasing the things that we
[2:44:16]
really want to be able to
not only call attention
[2:44:19]
to but make sure that
again, there's transparency
[2:44:22]
and that everyone understands
what the expectations are.
[2:44:27]
Establishing a single
point of contact.
[2:44:30]
So I will say that I
think that this has been
[2:44:32]
one of the most
successful kind of changes
[2:44:34]
that we've implemented.
[2:44:35]
Now, when a permit
application comes in,
[2:44:38]
that permit application is
assigned to a permit tech,
[2:44:40]
and that permit tech takes
it from start to finish.
[2:44:43]
And so just having that
single point of contact
[2:44:46]
has been very, very helpful.
[2:44:48]
And we've gotten
some great feedback.
[2:44:50]
We also have where
the permit the permit
[2:44:52]
techs, depending on the specific
scope of work in the project.
[2:44:57]
If they're asking for a
survey and it's been a day
[2:44:59]
and they haven't gotten the
survey, they may not reach out.
[2:45:02]
But again, just being mindful
and being on top of it
[2:45:04]
and having that ownership and
accountability of those permits
[2:45:07]
has been fantastic.
[2:45:09]
And almost to the point where
we've seen some kind of permit
[2:45:12]
techs take their kind of
territory and their permits
[2:45:14]
very seriously.
[2:45:16]
But it's been great
collaboration and teamwork,
[2:45:18]
and we've seen some really good
metrics on the improvement side.
[2:45:25]
For appointments, again,
you can make an appointment
[2:45:27]
with the building official or
the deputy building official
[2:45:30]
by calling the
number or emailing
[2:45:32]
permits at ST. Pete Beach.
[2:45:33]
We also extended the evening
hours on Wednesday until 5:30.
[2:45:38]
And again, that
was just in essence
[2:45:40]
to try and be more accessible.
[2:45:43]
I will tell you that in the nine
weeks since we've implemented
[2:45:45]
it, it's on Wednesdays only.
[2:45:48]
And again, in the nine weeks
we've had 12 people total.
[2:45:52]
Only one of those has been after
4:30 since we're open till 5:30.
[2:45:57]
And so we are making
the recommendation
[2:45:59]
and talking with
the administration.
[2:46:00]
We think that it's probably
most feasible to just scale that
[2:46:03]
back to 4:30, still
keep the extended hour,
[2:46:06]
the hour and a half.
[2:46:07]
But with regard to the
staff, it is overtime
[2:46:10]
for the couple members.
[2:46:11]
We always have at least
two here just for safety
[2:46:13]
and security purposes,
but we haven't
[2:46:15]
really seen that traction.
[2:46:17]
Now, I will say that we are
going to be having a contractor
[2:46:20]
roundtable focus
group, and so we
[2:46:23]
hope to get additional
feedback from the contractors,
[2:46:25]
because a lot of
this so far has been
[2:46:27]
from the resident and resident
builder owner builders.
[2:46:31]
So we want to make
sure that, again, we're
[2:46:34]
hearing from the
contractors and seeing
[2:46:36]
what they think would be most
accommodating to their needs
[2:46:39]
as well.
[2:46:41]
And I mentioned that
we were having I said
[2:46:44]
the contractor focus group.
[2:46:45]
But before that this Thursday
is going to be the building
[2:46:48]
and permitting open
house here in chambers.
[2:46:52]
And so that's really
intended to just
[2:46:54]
be if you have any questions,
if you're stuck in the process,
[2:46:57]
if you don't know
what to do next,
[2:47:00]
we're even
emphasizing that we'll
[2:47:02]
schedule a not on
the books inspection
[2:47:05]
and have one of our inspectors
go out with you to your property
[2:47:07]
and look at the situation
and be able to help
[2:47:10]
you determine which route to
go and which steps to take.
[2:47:13]
So this is really intended, of
course, to target the hurricane
[2:47:16]
damage and repairs.
[2:47:18]
But it's really open to anyone.
[2:47:19]
So we'll have staff in here
from 8:00 to I believe,
[2:47:23]
11 o'clock AM.
[2:47:24]
We'll have representatives from
the Pinellas recovers program.
[2:47:27]
So they'll be here.
[2:47:29]
And anyone interested in
any of their programming.
[2:47:32]
Again, they have a series
of buckets of grant funding
[2:47:35]
for residents and
business owners,
[2:47:38]
so they'll be available
to answer questions
[2:47:40]
and help anyone that's
interested in applying
[2:47:42]
for those programs.
[2:47:45]
For consolidated reviews,
this is something,
[2:47:48]
again, that we're working with.
[2:47:49]
I'll call it our
multi-departmental
[2:47:51]
interdisciplinary group,
because it's really
[2:47:54]
those more complex projects
that require a planning
[2:47:56]
review, a fire review.
[2:47:58]
And when we started
really talking
[2:48:00]
about a consolidated review
process, what we heard,
[2:48:04]
especially from some of the
contractors that we spoke to is
[2:48:07]
they really didn't want
us to sit on that review.
[2:48:09]
If there was a review
available, they
[2:48:10]
wanted made available
to them so they could
[2:48:13]
start acting on it accordingly.
[2:48:15]
However, what we
found along the way.
[2:48:17]
And as we started peeling things
back and asking more questions,
[2:48:20]
we found that some of it was
just the communication, the way
[2:48:23]
that things were
looking in the portal
[2:48:25]
and even just terminology.
[2:48:26]
So for example, rather
than saying plan,
[2:48:30]
review approved, complete.
[2:48:34]
So things like
that, we've already
[2:48:36]
implemented some changes.
[2:48:38]
And then also identifying which
division it's been approved by.
[2:48:41]
I know it sounds so
simple, but being
[2:48:43]
able to say that planning,
has completed their review,
[2:48:47]
it's not saying that your
application is approved yet,
[2:48:50]
it's just saying that
they've completed it.
[2:48:52]
And so again, we've been working
with innovation and technology
[2:48:55]
to help us further be
able to whether it's
[2:48:58]
a workaround in the
system, because again,
[2:49:00]
we have to work with the system
that we have in place now.
[2:49:03]
But if there's some low hanging
fruit and things like that,
[2:49:06]
just terminology changes
that we can implement
[2:49:09]
as well as how staff is
actually capturing it.
[2:49:13]
You that consistency
is so important.
[2:49:15]
So this is informing
our internal SOPs.
[2:49:18]
And when Candace
gets to her part,
[2:49:20]
you'll see that there's really
a lot of good documentation
[2:49:23]
that not only is it going
to help us in the future,
[2:49:26]
but it's informing our
day to day operations
[2:49:31]
and then defining and monitoring
this standard timeline.
[2:49:34]
So again, we have the regulatory
and statutory requirements
[2:49:37]
for our review.
[2:49:38]
And then we also have just
the reality of the situation.
[2:49:43]
And what we found is that the
cleanest and most transparent
[2:49:45]
way to do that is to
just be able to show
[2:49:48]
you what the regulatory.
[2:49:51]
What those timelines are
and then also be able to
[2:49:54]
through the portal and through
what we're working with,
[2:49:56]
innovation and
technology just show you
[2:49:58]
in real time what those reviews
are and what time that's taking.
[2:50:02]
So we'll get a little bit more
into that in a few moments.
[2:50:08]
I mentioned the website updates.
[2:50:09]
This has been I
can't thank Mark.
[2:50:12]
Mark Portugal, our
communications manager, enough.
[2:50:14]
He's been instrumental
in this process.
[2:50:17]
And we also have a lead
technician, Ryan garbett,
[2:50:20]
that's been will call our
website liaison because again,
[2:50:24]
what we found in this process
is it's continuously evolving
[2:50:27]
and we're frankly
never going to be done.
[2:50:29]
The minute that I think that
it probably is somewhat good
[2:50:33]
and you navigate the
site, pretty nicely, I
[2:50:36]
think we'll be probably
needing some updates,
[2:50:39]
so but we're breaking it up into
what I said these three stages.
[2:50:44]
So the first stage was just
again, getting anything.
[2:50:46]
I mean, frankly, I think what
happened is it wasn't maybe
[2:50:49]
perfect before the storms.
[2:50:50]
The storms happened.
[2:50:51]
And then we had to get so much
information up on the site
[2:50:54]
and quickly that it's
just there's so much
[2:50:58]
and it's in multiple places.
[2:50:59]
So we've had to go through and
just really remove anything
[2:51:02]
that's just truly outdated
or needs to come off,
[2:51:05]
or if it's causing more
confusion, get it off the site.
[2:51:08]
And then with that,
though, there's
[2:51:10]
a lot of documents
and forms that are
[2:51:12]
associated with those links.
[2:51:14]
So it's not like you can just
remove the link without updating
[2:51:16]
the information.
[2:51:17]
And so it creates kind
of a snowball effect.
[2:51:19]
The next phase that we're
going to be entering
[2:51:21]
is really now that we've started
removing so many things, just
[2:51:24]
want to make sure that
we have everything
[2:51:25]
that we need to have
statutorily up there.
[2:51:28]
There were also some
changes with SB 180,
[2:51:31]
specifically as it pertains
to how we're going to conduct
[2:51:34]
our operations after a storm
and how quickly we can get back
[2:51:38]
online, and how we're
going to get back
[2:51:40]
to 40 hours of operation
as soon as feasible,
[2:51:43]
things like that
are mandatory, that
[2:51:45]
need to be front and center.
[2:51:47]
And so that's this next stage.
[2:51:48]
And then again, we'll come
to the more dynamic part.
[2:51:51]
And really maybe we'll add a
couple pictures or something to
[2:51:54]
the site or some infographics.
[2:51:56]
And then again, we'll be
continuously on a monthly basis
[2:51:59]
looking at updating that
site accordingly for
[2:52:05]
the permit portal improvements.
[2:52:06]
As I said, we're
ultimately going
[2:52:08]
to be looking at potentially
issuing an RFP for a new portal
[2:52:12]
and a new system.
[2:52:13]
But for the time
being, we've just
[2:52:15]
been using really any
quick wins that we
[2:52:18]
can and any recommendations
from innovation and technology
[2:52:22]
to be able to just
it's so important.
[2:52:25]
What we found is just the
communication within the portal
[2:52:28]
because it's only
as good as you know
[2:52:29]
what you put what you get out is
only as good as what you put in.
[2:52:32]
So that consistency
across the board,
[2:52:34]
in those small little tweaks
that we've already made,
[2:52:36]
has been tremendous in
helping us be able to,
[2:52:39]
again, know where we're
at, where we're at now,
[2:52:41]
to know where we want to be.
[2:52:45]
And AI tool evaluation.
[2:52:47]
This is something
that is aligned
[2:52:49]
with in part with plan review.
[2:52:51]
But also, as we
know, AI, there's
[2:52:53]
so many different tools
available, especially
[2:52:55]
in our line of work,
from plan review
[2:52:57]
to how you can incorporate
it into as part of an AI
[2:53:02]
work system or a platform.
[2:53:04]
So what we've been doing is
leaning more into the experts
[2:53:08]
to help us with that.
[2:53:09]
And so we've just through
that interdisciplinary group,
[2:53:12]
we've been trying to
bring in other disciplines
[2:53:15]
to make sure that, again,
whatever software or technology
[2:53:18]
we get in the future, that
we're not missing anything.
[2:53:21]
It's really a strategic
approach to make
[2:53:23]
sure that we're almost
I say that I was joking,
[2:53:27]
but not really.
[2:53:28]
I said, we're never going to
be able to issue an RFP again
[2:53:30]
without almost doing again this
strategic process leading up
[2:53:34]
to it because it's informing not
only the software that we need,
[2:53:37]
but also how we can
improve our processes
[2:53:40]
to marry up to that technology.
[2:53:44]
And that RFP for the
permitting portal.
[2:53:47]
Again, I work is
it's what we've had
[2:53:51]
and we did go out
a few years ago
[2:53:53]
and ultimately decided
to stay with iWork.
[2:53:55]
But there's been a
series of there's just
[2:53:59]
constantly new
technologies as it pertains
[2:54:01]
to permitting software.
[2:54:03]
And then, as you know, we
also have other new software
[2:54:06]
such as forerunner that we
need to make sure is compatible
[2:54:09]
and that the software platforms
are speaking to one another.
[2:54:13]
So that's again where
Candace and her team
[2:54:16]
really come into play.
[2:54:17]
And making sure that, again,
we're thinking long term and not
[2:54:20]
just a quick fix solution.
[2:54:24]
I'm going to hand
it over to Kandace,
[2:54:26]
and she's going to go into a
little bit more, particularly
[2:54:29]
on the reporting
and the metrics.
[2:54:36]
Good evening, everyone.
[2:54:37]
Candace Galloway way
ahead of technology
[2:54:41]
and strategy and innovation
whatever else I'm asked to do.
[2:54:46]
Hopefully you're getting the
sense that well, collaborative,
[2:54:48]
and wear a lot of hats
and share responsibility
[2:54:51]
pretty well across
our functions.
[2:54:54]
So I'm here to support the
team and support the message
[2:54:58]
that Laura's been conveying and
the work that her team is doing.
[2:55:00]
And, clearly, we had a mandate
to a 30, 60, 90 day and 6 month
[2:55:08]
report out to this group
that included a lot of things
[2:55:11]
that Laura just discussed and
some things that I'm also going
[2:55:13]
to discuss towards the end.
[2:55:15]
But I think the things
that you're probably most
[2:55:17]
interested in are kind of here.
[2:55:19]
I've put them in the
middle, and that's really
[2:55:21]
around growing our
metrics, maturity
[2:55:23]
and the process around that.
[2:55:25]
Clearly that's an important
component from a strategy,
[2:55:28]
from a planning and
measuring and optimizing
[2:55:30]
how we work as an organization.
[2:55:32]
So we're going to talk a
little bit about that first.
[2:55:37]
So this slide here is
just meant to give you
[2:55:39]
a picture of the
last couple of years,
[2:55:42]
our focus has been
very centralized
[2:55:45]
on a lot of emergency and
disaster recovery metrics.
[2:55:49]
And so, we were really focused
in the area where we wanted
[2:55:54]
to see how long it was
taking to get from one phase
[2:55:57]
to another in terms of damage
assessment, cisd assessment work
[2:56:03]
and permitting around that.
[2:56:05]
And the focus was really
thinking on our feet,
[2:56:09]
ensuring that we're trying
our best, obviously,
[2:56:12]
to get people permitted, get
those damage assessments done,
[2:56:16]
get people back in their
homes and try to work really
[2:56:19]
focused on disaster recovery.
[2:56:20]
And so we've really
spent the last couple
[2:56:22]
of years in that space.
[2:56:24]
And our metrics reflected that.
[2:56:26]
But clearly we're
moving in a direction
[2:56:29]
where we need to look
more holistically.
[2:56:30]
And so, our approach
needs to change with it.
[2:56:33]
So the plan right now is
to move in a direction
[2:56:36]
where we're going to start
looking more holistically
[2:56:38]
about how we're looking at
operationalizing the way we work
[2:56:41]
and how we're tracking
and measuring that.
[2:56:43]
So this next slide
there's a lot here.
[2:56:49]
But I think the key takeaway
is about where we are right now
[2:56:53]
and before we actually
get into the metrics.
[2:56:54]
So one of the things I
apologize I didn't call out
[2:56:57]
is there might be one
or two of these slides
[2:56:59]
that you're going to see
that are not in your packet.
[2:57:02]
Not me on that one.
[2:57:03]
Yep they're not in your packet.
[2:57:05]
And so the reason they aren't is
because this stuff is evolving
[2:57:10]
right now with us with you.
[2:57:12]
So one of the things I wanted
to call out specifically
[2:57:15]
on our approach is the goal is
to come back and be transparent,
[2:57:20]
bring as much real
time information to you
[2:57:22]
as we can, and there's
pros and cons to that.
[2:57:25]
And part of the cons is we're
bringing you along for the ride.
[2:57:29]
We're bringing you along with
the development and the strategy
[2:57:32]
and the work that we're doing.
[2:57:34]
So, you're going to be part
of that process as we go.
[2:57:37]
And everything is
still evolving.
[2:57:40]
I want to make that clear.
[2:57:42]
As before, we get into
some of the metrics
[2:57:43]
that you're going to see today,
because some of those things
[2:57:45]
are going to change.
[2:57:48]
So as I mentioned, we're
building a framework.
[2:57:51]
We're bringing you along.
[2:57:52]
We're bringing the
visibility to you early.
[2:57:56]
But as I said, we're
going to those things
[2:57:58]
are still in development.
[2:57:59]
And it's really more of
a directional approach
[2:58:01]
on the metrics.
[2:58:02]
And to get some feedback
from you all, sorry,
[2:58:05]
I'm having trouble
with this microphone.
[2:58:07]
So I'm going to try to
get it down my direction.
[2:58:09]
Hopefully you guys can
hear me still pretty well.
[2:58:13]
The dashboard dashboarding.
[2:58:14]
We've started that process.
[2:58:15]
But the data is being refined.
[2:58:17]
There's still a fair amount
to do to improve accuracy
[2:58:20]
and to ensure that
it's the right metrics
[2:58:21]
and the right set of metrics.
[2:58:23]
So by no means is this final.
[2:58:26]
And again, I think I already
stated it's not the end state.
[2:58:30]
So we're going to be continuing
to work through that process
[2:58:34]
overall where we're headed.
[2:58:36]
Obviously, we want to
standardize the way that we
[2:58:40]
define permit types,
permit definitions,
[2:58:43]
workflows within the system.
[2:58:45]
One of the things I will
tell you, as I've gotten more
[2:58:48]
into the actual work of what's
happening in this organization,
[2:58:52]
this is pretty
difficult. This takes
[2:58:54]
a lot of critical thinking.
[2:58:55]
It takes a lot of
time to sit down
[2:58:57]
and map out what's happening
to get shared, gain alignment
[2:59:03]
between the teams in terms
of just mere definitions, how
[2:59:08]
people are using the system,
what statuses and states mean,
[2:59:11]
how the workflows work.
[2:59:14]
All of those things
are really the I
[2:59:16]
think I mentioned
last time I was here,
[2:59:18]
it's the non-sexy work.
[2:59:19]
It's not really the fun
stuff that people like to do,
[2:59:21]
but it's fundamentally what
we must be doing in order
[2:59:24]
to effectively get a better
alignment and a directionally
[2:59:28]
as a group move to
operationally improve ourselves.
[2:59:31]
So where we're headed.
[2:59:34]
Obviously I just mentioned
we're working on workflows.
[2:59:36]
We're defining
permit definitions.
[2:59:38]
We're going line
by line permit type
[2:59:41]
by permit type in the system.
[2:59:42]
And we're defining all of
that and documenting that.
[2:59:45]
And I'll show you
that in a minute.
[2:59:47]
And how we're trying to
memorialize that into a package
[2:59:49]
that's going to be useful
for a number of reasons.
[2:59:52]
We're using data already.
[2:59:54]
So some of the metrics,
even though they're still
[2:59:56]
in development, we're using
them, as Laura mentioned,
[2:59:59]
they're driving some
of the training things
[3:00:00]
that are happening
in the organization.
[3:00:02]
They're driving some of the
opportunities for improvement
[3:00:05]
and enhancement.
[3:00:06]
So they're already helping
us find where we might have
[3:00:08]
bottlenecks or
areas that we need
[3:00:10]
to focus our attention in terms
of improvement and change.
[3:00:13]
And obviously, we want
to build for a more
[3:00:15]
modern and data driven model
overall, as we operate.
[3:00:20]
All right.
[3:00:21]
So the metrics.
[3:00:23]
This first slide of metrics is
really just meant to show you
[3:00:28]
the total number of permits.
[3:00:30]
So what we decided to do is
start from January forward.
[3:00:33]
So January of 2026.
[3:00:36]
And after any
permits we're going
[3:00:39]
to start reporting out to you.
[3:00:41]
We're looking at permits
that were submitted,
[3:00:43]
permit applications that were
submitted during that period.
[3:00:46]
And, we're going to
obviously report out
[3:00:48]
to you on a number of
states and statuses
[3:00:50]
related to those permits,
anything older than that.
[3:00:52]
So if it was submitted last
December or last October
[3:00:55]
or last January, it's not
represented in these numbers,
[3:00:59]
and we don't necessarily
intend to go back
[3:01:01]
and do that legwork per se to
draw those into these metrics.
[3:01:06]
Unless you are looking
for something specific
[3:01:08]
and you want us to produce
something, we're happy to do it.
[3:01:11]
But right now, I want you
to know it's not baked in
[3:01:13]
and we're not necessarily
anticipating doing so.
[3:01:17]
But this first slide
obviously shows you,
[3:01:19]
and the reason that we're
putting two months up instead
[3:01:22]
of 1 is because
obviously we have
[3:01:23]
a couple months
underneath our belt
[3:01:25]
from a reporting standpoint.
[3:01:26]
So we've combined them.
[3:01:27]
We intend to probably report
out on a monthly basis.
[3:01:30]
So you'll be getting a
month over month view.
[3:01:33]
Kind of on a go forward basis.
[3:01:35]
This is meant to show
the mix of permit types.
[3:01:38]
So one of the things
that you also see here
[3:01:40]
is some categorization
on the permit types
[3:01:43]
that aren't necessarily directly
representative of the permit
[3:01:47]
types that are in the system.
[3:01:48]
So a lot of the work
that we've put in to date
[3:01:52]
is really around benchmarking
how other communities
[3:01:55]
are rolling up their metrics.
[3:01:58]
You certainly don't
want to sit here
[3:01:59]
and look at 40
different categories
[3:02:00]
and 40 different types of work.
[3:02:02]
I assure you, that's not going
to be a useful of your time.
[3:02:05]
So we're going
through the process
[3:02:07]
right now of how do
we categorize these,
[3:02:09]
the work, the types
of permits, and roll
[3:02:11]
it up in a meaningful way.
[3:02:13]
That is something that the
community can grasp onto.
[3:02:16]
And so this is again, meant
to be a draft starting point.
[3:02:19]
And we're looking for guidance
and feedback of what's
[3:02:21]
going to resonate with
you all and what you
[3:02:23]
think is going to be helpful.
[3:02:24]
And resonate more
with the community.
[3:02:25]
But right now we went from
basically 40 categories down
[3:02:29]
to 15 at the moment, with
plans to continue to modify
[3:02:32]
and refine that process.
[3:02:35]
And then one other call out on
this particular slide before I
[3:02:38]
go on metrics is we did report
on stop work orders and work
[3:02:42]
without permits.
[3:02:43]
Those aren't necessarily
a specific type of permit,
[3:02:45]
but it was expressed
interest that we
[3:02:47]
start showing some
of that information
[3:02:50]
and provide that
transparency to you.
[3:02:51]
So that's why those
are reported here.
[3:02:53]
And we'll continue to do
that effectively as we go.
[3:02:57]
All right.
[3:02:59]
So the total permits issued.
[3:03:00]
So this one is just giving you a
snapshot again month over month
[3:03:04]
that we had a total of
97 permits in January
[3:03:07]
that were issued.
[3:03:09]
So that came in after
January and that were issued
[3:03:11]
during the month of January.
[3:03:14]
And then a total of 158 that
came in during the month,
[3:03:19]
within the month
of or since January
[3:03:21]
that were issued in February.
[3:03:22]
So that would be a rolling
total right of month
[3:03:24]
over month within February.
[3:03:26]
It's not capturing just
those that came in February
[3:03:30]
and issued in February.
[3:03:31]
It's anything that was
issued in February.
[3:03:33]
A total that were issued of 158.
[3:03:37]
So it's a pretty substantial
increase month over month.
[3:03:40]
It's technically 63% There's
a 61 number of permits
[3:03:45]
that the team,
put out or issued.
[3:03:48]
So the productivity
gain in February
[3:03:49]
was significantly
higher than January.
[3:03:51]
You had a few less days
to get that work out also.
[3:03:54]
So it's a good indicator
that the team is kind
[3:03:57]
of staying on top of the work.
[3:03:59]
And we're maintaining
our traction
[3:04:01]
in terms of the input and
the intake that's coming in
[3:04:03]
and the outflow
from the Department.
[3:04:04]
So some of the things that we're
trying to start using to help
[3:04:07]
give us a little bit of
guidance on how the flow of work
[3:04:09]
is happening and whether
we're able to stay on top
[3:04:12]
and keep the intake
and outflow and stay
[3:04:14]
on top of the actual work.
[3:04:20]
All right.
[3:04:21]
So these have been
controversial in the past.
[3:04:23]
I'm sure there's questions and
concerns about these today.
[3:04:28]
But what I want to say
about this in particular
[3:04:31]
is I spent a lot of
time on these slides
[3:04:34]
and running this a
couple of different ways.
[3:04:37]
So with the way that we have
rolled up the categorization,
[3:04:42]
you can see there that
this outlines a 5.1
[3:04:45]
average days to close
from submittal to issued
[3:04:50]
for the month of January.
[3:04:52]
So that probably feels
to many like that
[3:04:54]
probably can't be true.
[3:04:56]
Or that's how is that possible.
[3:04:59]
But what I did to prove that
out in more detail is I actually
[3:05:03]
and took these categories
away and just went back
[3:05:07]
to our 40 categorization
of work and assessed
[3:05:10]
all of those individual
permits that were coming in.
[3:05:14]
And what you'll find is the
days may be increased a couple,
[3:05:19]
I would say 7, eight days max.
[3:05:21]
So there wasn't a big swing.
[3:05:22]
We didn't start to see that.
[3:05:24]
If we looked at these
numbers differently,
[3:05:26]
or if we changed the way we
categorize this information.
[3:05:29]
Large swings in
the number of days
[3:05:31]
it was taking on average, to
get a permit from submittal to
[3:05:35]
issued.
[3:05:36]
All right.
[3:05:37]
So one of the things that is
driving that largely is if you
[3:05:41]
look at the higher
categories here,
[3:05:43]
mechanical, electrical
and plumbing, those
[3:05:46]
are fairly significant
large amount of work
[3:05:48]
that we do in that space.
[3:05:49]
We have a lot of permits
coming in for that.
[3:05:52]
And those are going out at a
higher rate than many others.
[3:05:55]
They're easier for the
teams to accomplish.
[3:05:57]
Some of them are
equal change outs.
[3:05:58]
So they're quicker.
[3:05:59]
Some of them are
even the same day
[3:06:01]
permits or similar same
year, same day permits.
[3:06:05]
So those categories
in particular
[3:06:07]
are going to influence obviously
the numbers more significantly
[3:06:11]
than you would have.
[3:06:12]
Maybe an elevation or elevation
is not a good example here.
[3:06:15]
But if I go back we did have
some elevations to call out on.
[3:06:20]
Yeah so we did have
some submitted.
[3:06:22]
We had three.
[3:06:23]
We had one in January.
[3:06:24]
We had two in February.
[3:06:26]
If you look at issued there's
0 in January and 0 in February.
[3:06:30]
That means we've
not issued them.
[3:06:32]
There's inflow no outflow.
[3:06:34]
So they're still in review.
[3:06:36]
They're still being worked.
[3:06:37]
So we certainly have categories
that are much higher than 5.1
[3:06:41]
days and the 10
days in February,
[3:06:43]
but it's a very small number
in terms of the volume
[3:06:47]
of permits that are coming in.
[3:06:49]
That's going to continue to
drive the weight of those.
[3:06:51]
The impact of that
on the average days
[3:06:53]
to close down or excuse me.
[3:06:55]
Yeah, up.
[3:06:56]
So it's not going to
affect it nearly as much.
[3:06:59]
So that's one kind
of important call out
[3:07:01]
about this particular slide.
[3:07:03]
Yes you said we're
going to jump in.
[3:07:05]
Yeah please.
[3:07:06]
One more thing that Candice
pointed out with the elevations
[3:07:09]
in particular, she
went back and was
[3:07:11]
able to look at when
those went into review
[3:07:14]
because we wanted to make
sure that they were in review.
[3:07:16]
And on average, for the three
of them, it was six days,
[3:07:19]
one was eight days,
one was three days.
[3:07:21]
So that was at least good to
know that they're in review.
[3:07:24]
Because as we've
told you before,
[3:07:26]
a lot of the delay
sometimes that we've seen
[3:07:28]
is that time period before
it goes into review.
[3:07:31]
And anyway, sorry, I
just wanted to add.
[3:07:37]
All right.
[3:07:38]
Let's keep moving
here a little bit.
[3:07:40]
So February, the days to issue
the average days to issue
[3:07:44]
for those that were
completed during February
[3:07:46]
went up to 10 days.
[3:07:47]
Again, you might
think, OK, those
[3:07:49]
on average that's going up.
[3:07:51]
What is the impact of that.
[3:07:52]
What does that signal
not necessarily a lot
[3:07:55]
in terms of bad for us.
[3:07:57]
And we'll talk about the
summary of this in a second.
[3:08:00]
We clearly still
have even though we
[3:08:02]
got many out in 10 days.
[3:08:03]
You can see there's
categories driveway,
[3:08:05]
demo pool and Spa taking
anywhere from 26.5 to 36.3.
[3:08:10]
So again, we're rolling
it up, but we're also
[3:08:14]
trying to be as transparent
with each individual set of data
[3:08:17]
and category so that you can
see that we understand and we
[3:08:20]
recognize that
clearly, there are
[3:08:21]
some that are taking much longer
than these averages are showing.
[3:08:30]
All right.
[3:08:31]
Let's go back.
[3:08:31]
One second here.
[3:08:37]
I missed one.
[3:08:39]
We did that.
[3:08:40]
All right.
[3:08:41]
Maybe we I'm trying to
make sure I have my.
[3:08:45]
All right, let's go ahead.
[3:08:46]
Do you want to talk a
little bit about maybe.
[3:08:48]
Do you want to
spend a few minutes.
[3:08:49]
Laura, we did talk about this.
[3:08:51]
So this kind of gets down
to just a summary for you
[3:08:54]
on some of those
ones that we know
[3:08:55]
are in that higher category
that are taking longer,
[3:08:59]
where we might have
some potential concerns.
[3:09:01]
And Laura can talk a little
bit about the ones that
[3:09:03]
are in these high potential
bottlenecks and some of the ones
[3:09:06]
that are in the concern bucket.
[3:09:08]
And of course, there's
some strong performers,
[3:09:10]
as we've already talked about.
[3:09:11]
But I think maybe Laura
can give a little bit
[3:09:13]
more insight into potential
area of bottleneck.
[3:09:16]
They're sure, it's easy
to say more complex,
[3:09:21]
but I think that what's
key and when you start
[3:09:23]
to look at driveways, demos,
pools and spas, as many of you
[3:09:26]
know what's the
common denominator.
[3:09:28]
You're talking about the
land development code.
[3:09:31]
And a survey is needed
with all of these.
[3:09:34]
There's also often a site
plan that's required.
[3:09:37]
So again, more documentation,
more of a review process.
[3:09:41]
But again looking at these and
trying to identify and get more
[3:09:46]
into the details
of course of OK,
[3:09:48]
well at what point in the
process because again,
[3:09:51]
we have different divisions that
are looking at different things.
[3:09:55]
And so is there a way
that we can expedite
[3:09:57]
things on our end in any way.
[3:09:59]
Because we don't want
to just say, well,
[3:10:02]
we're waiting on the applicant.
[3:10:03]
Although oftentimes if you
go into the portal and you
[3:10:06]
when you really want to see what
that delay is, it's oftentimes
[3:10:09]
and I'll tell you time and time
again, when I've went in there,
[3:10:12]
I would say 9 times
out of 10, it's
[3:10:14]
that there's something
on the applicant side
[3:10:16]
that staff is waiting on.
[3:10:17]
So it's basically delaying
the permit from going through.
[3:10:23]
But just a comment here.
[3:10:25]
But if we go back to the
customer service and somebody
[3:10:30]
calls them and tells them that
this is why that does help, that
[3:10:35]
or should speed that along.
[3:10:38]
To get that document.
[3:10:40]
Makes sense.
[3:10:41]
All right.
[3:10:42]
So we talked about February.
[3:10:43]
We talked a little bit
about the key insights here.
[3:10:46]
This is just another
representation
[3:10:48]
of the overall just on
a month side by side
[3:10:51]
comparison just for
intake and outflow.
[3:10:54]
So this was just meant
to give you that.
[3:10:55]
Overall summary.
[3:10:58]
The throughput did improve
despite continued strong demand.
[3:11:01]
You can see that here in terms
of the outflow of the Department
[3:11:04]
and the productivity
of the Department.
[3:11:08]
Obviously, we are working on,
permit stage tracking and more
[3:11:12]
work we're going to talk
about in a second in terms
[3:11:13]
of outlining the process
in granular level of detail
[3:11:19]
to strengthen our reporting out
to this group in the future.
[3:11:23]
And we've made some
changes within iWork also.
[3:11:25]
One of the things that you all
had asked for that we could not
[3:11:28]
produce yet, but we are close
is getting from submittal
[3:11:31]
to when it goes to in review.
[3:11:32]
Now, we just mentioned
in elevation case
[3:11:35]
I was able to give
you that information.
[3:11:37]
There was three
of them in there.
[3:11:38]
But right now, what we had to
do to get this is implement
[3:11:41]
a fix in our system
to add a new field
[3:11:43]
to capture in review,
which wasn't being captured
[3:11:46]
before today or before now.
[3:11:47]
So you can imagine that many of
these things that you're seeing
[3:11:50]
here were generating work,
were going back and doing
[3:11:53]
in the system so that we can
properly track status and report
[3:11:57]
against these metrics.
[3:11:58]
So we're very close
to having that.
[3:11:59]
And hopefully next
month you'll start
[3:12:01]
to see not only
submittal to issuance,
[3:12:03]
but you'll see
submittal to in review.
[3:12:05]
So we can start to break up the
segments of this entire flow,
[3:12:09]
the life cycle of
the permit and 0
[3:12:11]
in on where we have things that
are going well and working well,
[3:12:14]
and areas that we need
to focus and improve.
[3:12:19]
All right.
[3:12:21]
All right.
[3:12:21]
So this is just giving you
an overall summary on all
[3:12:24]
of the metrics that you saw.
[3:12:26]
Clearly, we know we
have an intake problem
[3:12:28]
and we're going to
be focused there.
[3:12:30]
When we look at technology
improvements and we
[3:12:32]
look at some other tools.
[3:12:34]
But, really the signal so
far is having 224 up to 250,
[3:12:40]
the demand is still
high, but the team
[3:12:42]
is staying on top of it.
[3:12:43]
And the output from the teams
in terms of the issuance
[3:12:46]
is staying at pace or
outpacing the intake.
[3:12:51]
So that is a good sign
and a good signal for us.
[3:12:54]
We issued more 61 more
permits month over month.
[3:12:57]
So again the output
from the Department
[3:13:00]
is significantly more.
[3:13:02]
That's a good indicator of
operational changes and things
[3:13:04]
that are happening
within the Department.
[3:13:06]
All those improvements that
Laura just talked to you
[3:13:08]
all about are gaining
ground in terms
[3:13:10]
of the output and
the performance
[3:13:12]
that you're seeing
with what we're
[3:13:13]
delivering to the community.
[3:13:15]
The backlog pressure
I just mentioned,
[3:13:18]
we're hitting it
at we're issuing it
[3:13:20]
at a faster rate than intake.
[3:13:21]
So clearly that's important
to maintain our outflow.
[3:13:25]
And then the overall
effort is paying off just
[3:13:28]
because we have higher demand.
[3:13:30]
In February, we had less
days to get work out.
[3:13:32]
And we clearly still
significantly beat
[3:13:34]
the mark on January
in terms of delivery
[3:13:37]
for overall permit output.
[3:13:41]
So those are the
metrics for today.
[3:13:43]
One of the things I want to
say to you is, I did mention,
[3:13:46]
this is hard stuff.
[3:13:47]
This is difficult to get at.
[3:13:50]
And it's something that's
critically important.
[3:13:53]
It's all in development.
[3:13:54]
So we hope that you'll
give us guidance,
[3:13:56]
feedback around how you want to
start seeing this information
[3:14:00]
and what types of
information to change
[3:14:02]
or think about as
we're approaching this,
[3:14:05]
we are benchmarking
across many other cities.
[3:14:07]
I looked at least
15 other communities
[3:14:10]
to see how they were
doing their roll UPS
[3:14:12]
and how they were
reporting theirs out.
[3:14:14]
And of those 15
communities, they were
[3:14:16]
doing it 15 different ways.
[3:14:17]
So what I gleaned from that
is the most important thing
[3:14:21]
is that it resonates
with you all
[3:14:23]
resonates with the community.
[3:14:24]
And so we've got to get down to
ensuring that that's what we're
[3:14:28]
focused on in terms of
coming up and talking
[3:14:31]
to you all about metrics
or putting it in a report
[3:14:32]
or putting it on a
dashboard on our website.
[3:14:34]
So we are focused there.
[3:14:37]
The last few slides, I'm going
to go through pretty quickly.
[3:14:39]
You've seen most
of these before,
[3:14:41]
at least at a high level.
[3:14:42]
This was the last time
we went through this.
[3:14:45]
We talked about an operating
blueprint and a set of materials
[3:14:48]
that we're developing.
[3:14:49]
And so I'm going to take you
through each one just briefly.
[3:14:52]
So you have a feel
for what the work
[3:14:53]
that's been going
on because there's
[3:14:55]
a significant effort there.
[3:14:57]
So one of the things
that we've been building
[3:14:59]
is an operational service
blueprint, service map
[3:15:02]
for the permitting life cycle.
[3:15:04]
So essentially, we're
outlining an entire end to end
[3:15:08]
permit life cycle process.
[3:15:11]
We've working on coordinating
with all disciplines.
[3:15:15]
We've met with most of
them, but there are still
[3:15:16]
a few that we're working through
that we need to incorporate in.
[3:15:20]
But you can see the image.
[3:15:21]
It's a little bit
grainy, happy to share,
[3:15:24]
if you want to review
it in more detail,
[3:15:26]
happy to share it with you.
[3:15:28]
But it's basically
a process flow
[3:15:29]
map showing the end to
end stage of permitting
[3:15:32]
as it moves through.
[3:15:33]
We're using staff workshops.
[3:15:35]
We're using surveys,
we're using the volunteer
[3:15:38]
surveys that were done.
[3:15:39]
We're getting ready to do that.
[3:15:40]
Contractor focus
group, all of that
[3:15:42]
is going to feed and
give us information
[3:15:44]
to feed this process.
[3:15:46]
And this will be
updated accordingly.
[3:15:49]
Obviously, we're looking at
in-depth reviews of the system,
[3:15:52]
the capabilities
of what we have,
[3:15:54]
how the systems are being used,
what tools that the teams are
[3:15:57]
using to accomplish the work.
[3:15:59]
So that's going into the inputs
for this diagramming as well.
[3:16:03]
Next up, we have to outline
the inspection process
[3:16:06]
that is not identified here.
[3:16:07]
So this takes us basically
through high level plan review.
[3:16:11]
We've got to get
inspections baked in here.
[3:16:12]
We don't have anything
from code baked in here.
[3:16:16]
So we've got a fair amount of
work to do in those two spaces.
[3:16:19]
We've got to finish
documenting the workflow
[3:16:21]
and the system touch points.
[3:16:23]
So where we're touching
the technology,
[3:16:24]
what technology as I
mentioned is being used.
[3:16:26]
What tool.
[3:16:27]
For example, I know
scheduling for inspections
[3:16:29]
being done outside of the tool.
[3:16:31]
They're using
Excel spreadsheets,
[3:16:33]
they're using Calendly.
[3:16:34]
There's other tools that are at
play that we need to document
[3:16:37]
and make sure that we're
incorporating in terms of when
[3:16:39]
we're thinking about replacing
this, how might we go about that
[3:16:42]
and where do we need
to focus our efforts.
[3:16:47]
I think we talked a
little bit about that.
[3:16:49]
I don't know that I need to
go into why this matters.
[3:16:50]
I think everybody gets why
this stuff's important.
[3:16:52]
So I think I'll let this
one go for the sake of time.
[3:16:58]
All right.
[3:16:58]
I think this one was kind of
an important one to call out.
[3:17:00]
I mentioned this
pain point register
[3:17:02]
the last time we got together.
[3:17:03]
What I didn't share with
you it is still in progress,
[3:17:07]
but so far to date, we have 46
items of pain points between all
[3:17:11]
of the various
departments and feedback
[3:17:13]
that we've ingested or
taken in this process.
[3:17:17]
And 67% of those are gaps
in technology we have that
[3:17:21]
cannot be fulfilled
with the solution
[3:17:24]
that we have in place today.
[3:17:26]
That's not really acceptable.
[3:17:28]
I mean, fundamentally,
that's a pretty big gap.
[3:17:31]
Significant mess and frankly,
from delivering on what
[3:17:36]
we need to be able to do.
[3:17:37]
I'm not blaming all
of it on technology,
[3:17:39]
because clearly technology
is not the silver bullet
[3:17:42]
for solving everyone's
problems, but a lot
[3:17:44]
of the operational things that
they're baking in and doing now,
[3:17:46]
we need to support and
augment with technology.
[3:17:52]
And then this is another
thing that I think is
[3:17:54]
going to be gold for all of us.
[3:17:55]
It's going to serve
a lot of purposes.
[3:17:57]
So we are right now in
the middle of building out
[3:17:59]
an entire permit matrix
that's cataloging,
[3:18:01]
cataloging over 64 for
permit types that's
[3:18:05]
going through every single
step of that permit type
[3:18:08]
in terms of what
documentation is required
[3:18:10]
for that type of permit.
[3:18:12]
What compliance obligations
are there as a result
[3:18:16]
for that type of permit.
[3:18:18]
What kind of inspections and
the order of those inspections
[3:18:21]
for that type of permit.
[3:18:22]
What kind of
reviews are required
[3:18:23]
for that type of permit.
[3:18:25]
So you can imagine, there's
a lot of detail going
[3:18:27]
into this permit
matrix, but this
[3:18:29]
is going to answer and
basically help us with our RFP.
[3:18:32]
It's going to help us for
any changes to the system.
[3:18:35]
It's going to help us
on the website when
[3:18:36]
we need to communicate
to you all about,
[3:18:40]
processes and processes
that the community
[3:18:43]
needs to use for submitting
their application.
[3:18:46]
It's going to help
training new employees,
[3:18:49]
because we're going to have
this artifact that's going to be
[3:18:51]
able to show them, and
they're going to be
[3:18:53]
able to use it for reference.
[3:18:54]
So it's going to solve
a lot of things for us,
[3:18:57]
and it's taking a lot of
time, but I think it's going
[3:18:59]
to be worth its weight in gold.
[3:19:01]
Clearly it helps us
in a number of ways
[3:19:03]
that I think you guys
probably understand,
[3:19:05]
but we're standardizing
requirements
[3:19:07]
across the departments.
[3:19:08]
It's going to help
everybody understand
[3:19:09]
what those requirements are.
[3:19:10]
It's going to be setting clear
expectations for the community
[3:19:12]
of what to expect to help lay
out timelines for delivery
[3:19:16]
on these things.
[3:19:17]
Some things are more
complex, and hopefully this
[3:19:19]
is going to help us
show the clarity around
[3:19:21]
what makes it complex and how
that's different from something
[3:19:24]
that's quick and easy.
[3:19:26]
And so here's just
a quick sample.
[3:19:28]
This is a roll up.
[3:19:30]
It's certainly not
a level of detail
[3:19:31]
that we have in the document.
[3:19:32]
But I just wanted to give
you an idea of how that's
[3:19:35]
kind of coming together
in terms of a permit type,
[3:19:37]
walking through the
application requirements
[3:19:39]
on that permit type, what
the plans and documents that
[3:19:42]
are required to be submitted
with that package, all
[3:19:44]
those inspections that I
just mentioned, and so on.
[3:19:47]
So this one's really
a big, big win for us.
[3:19:50]
And it's taking
quite a bit of time
[3:19:52]
along with that permit
service map that you saw.
[3:19:54]
But those are significantly
important as we
[3:19:57]
go forward from a strategic
planning standpoint.
[3:20:02]
I think that's it.
[3:20:05]
Again, I cannot thank
Candace and her team enough.
[3:20:08]
But I will say that
it's even helping.
[3:20:11]
We've been interviewing for
plans examiners, inspectors.
[3:20:14]
And so if we weren't paying
attention to this data
[3:20:18]
and realizing that we have
so many for example, MEPs,
[3:20:22]
well, when you're interviewing,
then an inspector,
[3:20:24]
you want to make sure that they
have mechanical and plumbing.
[3:20:26]
So these things
are again informing
[3:20:29]
just our work operations and
just having the discussions.
[3:20:32]
Some of them were tough
at times because if you
[3:20:34]
ask a permit tech, how
they process a permit,
[3:20:36]
they'll tell you three steps.
[3:20:37]
If Candace asks them
again and again,
[3:20:40]
it turns out it's
really 18 steps.
[3:20:42]
OK, what is the contractor.
[3:20:44]
What is the applicant
doing at this point.
[3:20:45]
So it's been quite a process.
[3:20:47]
But again, just so
thankful and again
[3:20:49]
very appreciative
of just the help
[3:20:50]
that it's given
us along the way.
[3:20:53]
So next steps we're
going to continue working
[3:20:55]
with innovation and technology.
[3:20:57]
We're going to continue to
have those regular coordination
[3:21:00]
meetings with the
other departments
[3:21:02]
and the interdisciplinary group
that touches the permit process.
[3:21:05]
We're hosting the building
and permitting open house
[3:21:08]
this Thursday, and then
we're going to also have
[3:21:11]
the contractor focus group.
[3:21:13]
I didn't have that
on the screen.
[3:21:14]
And then we'll be coming back
to you in June, around the June
[3:21:18]
time frame with another update.
[3:21:21]
I'll be happy to answer
any questions Mr. Marriott.
[3:21:27]
I've got a quick
question for you, Laura.
[3:21:28]
The contractor focus
group on April 8.
[3:21:32]
Is that an invitation only
or is that any contractors
[3:21:34]
that want to be involved.
[3:21:36]
That is an invitation only.
[3:21:37]
And so what we did
for that one is we
[3:21:39]
took the top 20 contractors
with the most activity
[3:21:42]
and work going on currently.
[3:21:44]
And so we did an invite
only because we're
[3:21:47]
going to dive into
the same questions
[3:21:49]
that we asked the volunteers.
[3:21:51]
Similar format a
little bit differently,
[3:21:53]
but we really want to have
a deeper dive discussion.
[3:21:56]
And then we're also going
to Candace will be there
[3:21:58]
to go through the mapping.
[3:22:01]
So again, we want to know from
them if we're missing anything.
[3:22:05]
Subsequent to that,
we are scheduling.
[3:22:07]
I do not have the first date.
[3:22:09]
We tentatively set April 28,
but don't hold me to that.
[3:22:13]
But we are going to be holding
a series of contractor coffees
[3:22:17]
and that will be open to anyone.
[3:22:19]
And that will be more
of just topic related.
[3:22:22]
So we have a series
of different topics
[3:22:24]
that have came up over and over.
[3:22:26]
Like for example, we
might have one that's just
[3:22:28]
seawalls all about seawalls.
[3:22:30]
And so keep a heads up for
that because that will be
[3:22:33]
open again to all contractors.
[3:22:35]
And one of the things
that we heard actually
[3:22:37]
from the internal
stakeholder engagement
[3:22:39]
was and from the contractors
from this original invite out,
[3:22:44]
is that a lot of them
aren't actually the ones
[3:22:46]
the contractor themselves
aren't the ones that are
[3:22:49]
coming into the front counter.
[3:22:50]
They have a permit
tech team sometimes
[3:22:53]
that are working for them.
[3:22:54]
So we also are opening
up to those individuals.
[3:22:56]
So the contractor can
come and bring their staff
[3:22:59]
or send someone.
[3:23:00]
Because again, we've realized
that oftentimes, they
[3:23:03]
may be on the site and not
the one coming into our office
[3:23:05]
and working with us on
the actual application.
[3:23:08]
Thank you very much.
[3:23:09]
And thank you both for I
mean, you guys have clearly
[3:23:12]
done so much work
on this, and I think
[3:23:13]
there have been such tremendous
improvement in a pretty
[3:23:16]
short amount of time.
[3:23:18]
And I hope everybody
on your team
[3:23:20]
feels like they're part of
the team that's on their way
[3:23:23]
to winning the Super Bowl.
[3:23:24]
Because I think we've
got a great plan going.
[3:23:27]
And thank you, Candace.
[3:23:29]
I just can't even believe
how lucky we are to have
[3:23:31]
you here to do all this for us.
[3:23:35]
Commissioner Robinson.
[3:23:36]
I had a couple questions.
[3:23:37]
Under the 90 day roadmap,
completed actions, page 112.
[3:23:46]
Eligible type of projects
for same day permits.
[3:23:49]
Do we have that list.
[3:23:52]
Since it's completed.
[3:23:54]
And where does that list live.
[3:23:58]
So no, I. So those
are the ones that
[3:24:00]
are going to be on the we're
going to put those front
[3:24:02]
and center for typical.
[3:24:04]
But that information
has not been added.
[3:24:05]
I did have it on the slide, but
I didn't want to just throw that
[3:24:10]
up there because there needs
to be a little bit more
[3:24:12]
of a disclaimer.
[3:24:13]
I think in more
information, as far as
[3:24:16]
why some equal change outs would
be OK and same day, but not all.
[3:24:21]
So we just want to add a
little bit more information.
[3:24:23]
And that is coming with an
update to the fences on here.
[3:24:29]
No, they are not.
[3:24:31]
How long do fences take
to get a permit for.
[3:24:35]
I can tell you how
long on average.
[3:24:38]
Hey we have that data again.
[3:24:40]
Often yeah, often.
[3:24:43]
Yeah, often because of a
site plan being required
[3:24:47]
or survey being required.
[3:24:49]
And I think that
may be part of it,
[3:24:51]
that it wouldn't be same day.
[3:24:53]
Not to say that it can't be OK.
[3:24:55]
Yeah, that's part of
our local code, right.
[3:24:58]
So you could review
that and change it,
[3:25:01]
but it requires that
kind of permitting.
[3:25:03]
Well, a survey is
kind of obvious
[3:25:05]
because you don't want to put
it on your neighbor's yard.
[3:25:07]
I mean, that would be
something that's kind of like.
[3:25:11]
And I would think if
you under a fence,
[3:25:15]
you would say you need a survey
and under particular items
[3:25:19]
you need a survey for.
[3:25:21]
And then the
streamlined guidance
[3:25:25]
and outreach, the published
clear instructions
[3:25:28]
and eligibility criteria.
[3:25:30]
Residents easily identify
projects suitable for same day
[3:25:34]
processing.
[3:25:35]
Where is that as well.
[3:25:39]
So that is currently we
have updated the site.
[3:25:43]
If you go to our permit,
permits, applications and forms
[3:25:47]
I believe is the page
title for that one where
[3:25:50]
it outlines the permit process.
[3:25:53]
It will link you out to the
regulatory timelines that 30 day
[3:25:57]
the 10 day for a review.
[3:26:00]
It goes straight to the
statutory requirements.
[3:26:03]
You're saying this
is on the website.
[3:26:05]
Yes OK.
[3:26:12]
And then.
[3:26:15]
Did we establish SOP
as verbal communication
[3:26:18]
phone call prior to any denial
for any denial of permits.
[3:26:27]
No, we have not.
[3:26:28]
And The completed application.
[3:26:38]
Completed actions.
[3:26:39]
When are those completed.
[3:26:41]
As of this last month.
[3:26:45]
Two weeks ago today for which.
[3:26:47]
For all of these that
say the completed actions
[3:26:51]
a series of them had been
already in the works,
[3:26:54]
even prior to us
technically starting
[3:26:57]
the January 1
countdown, and then some
[3:27:00]
as recent as the last website.
[3:27:02]
That's why I'm a little bit
hesitant to say yes, it's
[3:27:04]
up there and change
because we just
[3:27:06]
made it through this last
round of website updates,
[3:27:08]
but late last week.
[3:27:11]
So they've been happening
since I believe that we
[3:27:17]
first had these series
of progress action items
[3:27:22]
in late December.
[3:27:24]
And again, a few of those we
were already kind of working on
[3:27:27]
in a different way,
but wasn't really
[3:27:30]
captured in this same format.
[3:27:34]
So we do have just
to be clear, we
[3:27:36]
have a complete list of these.
[3:27:37]
And there are at minimum like
this was done January 20 26th
[3:27:41]
February, so if you do have
dates on all of this stuff,
[3:27:44]
I think it's just not here.
[3:27:46]
But yeah, we do have
dates to that list
[3:27:49]
as far as I'm just
looking at a money.
[3:27:52]
A money thing forerunner did.
[3:27:56]
Did forerunner cost
us money, or did we
[3:27:58]
have to purchase
forerunner software
[3:28:00]
or is that
reimbursable from FEMA.
[3:28:04]
It cost us.
[3:28:06]
So we purchased forerunner.
[3:28:08]
Yes thank you.
[3:28:11]
Yeah so we actually
purchased forerunner
[3:28:15]
I can't answer the
question about whether
[3:28:17]
or it's potentially
reimbursable from FEMA.
[3:28:20]
We can certainly
discuss that internally.
[3:28:22]
To my knowledge, there has
not been anything specific
[3:28:25]
shared with me to pursue that.
[3:28:27]
But we certainly can get you an
answer on if that's eligible.
[3:28:31]
I'm just in.
[3:28:32]
I see new portal software
on this for RFPs,
[3:28:37]
and I just know how much we've
spent already on software.
[3:28:41]
And I'm just concerned
we're not in blue skies.
[3:28:44]
We're still in gray skies,
especially financially
[3:28:47]
and just want to find out.
[3:28:50]
Can we work with what we
have until we get to a point
[3:28:53]
where getting close
to blue skies.
[3:28:55]
So 100% I think
what you're seeing
[3:28:58]
is a result of us
doing just that.
[3:29:00]
We are really trying to
work with what we have,
[3:29:03]
make any fundamental changes
that we can within our work.
[3:29:06]
We are looking at.
[3:29:07]
One of the things
on that list you saw
[3:29:09]
was go out and look,
if there's an AI tool
[3:29:10]
to augment AI work that maybe
isn't a full replacement
[3:29:13]
to go out and get an entire
new permitting system
[3:29:15]
today, tomorrow or next month.
[3:29:17]
But what tools might be out
there that aren't that can still
[3:29:21]
augment and we can gain
significant efficiency
[3:29:24]
or close some of those 67% gaps
in the software that we have.
[3:29:28]
So we are absolutely doing that.
[3:29:29]
I think the ask of us
was to come together
[3:29:32]
with all of this documentation
and be ready for an RFP by maybe
[3:29:36]
June was the deadline that
we were given and discussed
[3:29:39]
in some prior commission.
[3:29:40]
And so we're still targeting
the potential to do that.
[3:29:42]
But that's certainly going
to be up for discussion
[3:29:44]
in terms of how that plays out.
[3:29:46]
I would just be concerned
that it all works together.
[3:29:48]
Understood I think we've had a
lot of stuff that hasn't worked
[3:29:51]
together in the past, and
we've had to abandon it
[3:29:54]
and then paid a lot of
money for new software.
[3:29:57]
You are not wrong, and we
are spending a lot of time
[3:30:00]
this time to do
our due diligence.
[3:30:02]
So that does not happen to
us again specifically here.
[3:30:05]
I appreciate what you've gotten
so far with what we have.
[3:30:09]
But, again, I'm
concerned about that,
[3:30:12]
about being able to work with
what we have until we can get
[3:30:14]
to a point where we're at
Blue skies or close to it
[3:30:18]
or fair concern.
[3:30:19]
Light blue or whatever.
[3:30:20]
Yeah right.
[3:30:22]
Thank you.
[3:30:23]
Let me see if I put
some red notes in here.
[3:30:25]
So I'll see if
there's another one.
[3:30:27]
I think that might
have been the last.
[3:30:29]
That was it.
[3:30:29]
Thank you.
[3:30:30]
Thank you, Commissioner Causey.
[3:30:32]
Yeah wonderful of
everything that's
[3:30:35]
going on here in the
focus on this big pain
[3:30:37]
point for the
community, and it's
[3:30:39]
going to be great coming
out the other side of this,
[3:30:42]
I really think.
[3:30:44]
A couple of questions is.
[3:30:46]
Is Aye.
[3:30:47]
Commissioner Robinson,
asking about the phone
[3:30:49]
call before denials.
[3:30:50]
Is that a thing.
[3:30:52]
Is there a complication with
that you could tell us about or.
[3:30:57]
So honestly, it's something that
we would like to discuss more
[3:31:00]
in particular at the contractor
focus group in talking,
[3:31:04]
I think that when that
recommendation was made,
[3:31:07]
we kind of talked
about it with staff
[3:31:10]
as far as how that would look.
[3:31:12]
And potentially we used not
the worst case scenario,
[3:31:17]
but the scenario of
contractor that's getting
[3:31:21]
the call while on the job site.
[3:31:22]
Your application has been denied
why they don't have a computer
[3:31:27]
in front of them or anything.
[3:31:28]
And talking through that, it
could cause more frustration
[3:31:31]
potentially than help.
[3:31:33]
And so what we've done, because
we did hear you loud and clear,
[3:31:37]
is that we've tried to
implement through again
[3:31:39]
that single point of contact,
letting the permit techs
[3:31:42]
use their own discretion
because they're really now
[3:31:45]
that liaison for the applicant.
[3:31:47]
And they should really
be able to tell,
[3:31:50]
whether it's a
denial or approval
[3:31:51]
or maybe hold on, we need this
and have that open dialogue
[3:31:55]
and be ahead of it.
[3:31:56]
So we've encouraged that and
also emphasize that especially
[3:32:01]
for a denial, because
that's usually
[3:32:02]
where we hear the most about it
that where it makes sense to not
[3:32:07]
only let if it's a contractor,
but also let the homeowner
[3:32:10]
know as well.
[3:32:11]
So we are leaving it up to
them at their discretion.
[3:32:14]
We have not mandated
that if it's
[3:32:16]
a denial that a call goes out.
[3:32:18]
But again, we intended to bring
that up with the contractor
[3:32:22]
focus group because I
could be completely wrong
[3:32:24]
or our team as we've discussed
is that could be instead
[3:32:28]
very well received, but we just
want to make sure that we just
[3:32:33]
don't want to do it and
then make it one of the SOPs
[3:32:37]
now and then have
it potentially.
[3:32:40]
There was some concern that it
could create more frustration
[3:32:43]
and frankly, just the time
involved, whether we're not
[3:32:46]
making a call right now,
if it's approved or denied,
[3:32:49]
it's all through the
portal in the system.
[3:32:50]
And so that's the
current process.
[3:32:54]
That's good.
[3:32:55]
And then so the last
thing is, have we
[3:32:58]
identified any ways
to streamline our code
[3:33:02]
through this evolution.
[3:33:05]
So you all have thankfully
done a number of things.
[3:33:08]
So far to we'll call
it modify, tweak,
[3:33:12]
respond to the ever
changing permitting world
[3:33:17]
that we're living
in, such as what
[3:33:19]
you all talked about a couple
weeks ago with the seawalls.
[3:33:22]
We also had
remember, the raising
[3:33:24]
of the mechanical
equipment and all of that.
[3:33:27]
That was a big one.
[3:33:28]
So you've got our
local code and then
[3:33:30]
we've got the building code,
which we can't really touch.
[3:33:32]
But we've been actually we're
fortunate enough that our Deputy
[3:33:37]
building official is
actually on the he's
[3:33:40]
on the committee for the Florida
building code 2027 update.
[3:33:44]
And so a lot of what we've
seen and what we've been
[3:33:48]
experiencing, explained them.
[3:33:51]
It's absolutely very important
that not that there's
[3:33:53]
any guarantee, but that we
need to as a barrier island
[3:33:57]
community, be represented
accordingly for all
[3:33:59]
these challenges that we've
seen, because some of it,
[3:34:02]
to your point, can be changed.
[3:34:03]
It's easy if it's our LDC and
we can make a minor tweak.
[3:34:06]
But what we found is the most
challenging ones that we can't.
[3:34:10]
Our hands are tied because
it's either the FBC or FEMA.
[3:34:16]
Yeah just the differences
between the different beach
[3:34:19]
cities, for example, here,
if we have certain codes
[3:34:23]
that contractors are seeing
are different than other places
[3:34:27]
where they're working.
[3:34:31]
So we had it's interesting
because we've only had one group
[3:34:35]
meeting so far, but we have
a group of building officials
[3:34:38]
from the barrier islands.
[3:34:39]
It was from Madeira,
Treasure Island,
[3:34:41]
Redington, Indian Shores.
[3:34:45]
We all met and basically it was
a therapeutic meeting, just no.
[3:34:49]
But it was really to
talk about these things
[3:34:52]
because we're all
experiencing the same things.
[3:34:54]
And what we found is we're so
quick to hear that, well, you're
[3:34:57]
allowed to do whatever
in TI or they'll let
[3:35:00]
you raise it up, only two feet.
[3:35:02]
And so we've been comparing
ourselves and sharing resources
[3:35:08]
as recent as yesterday, we had
a lengthy elevation discussion
[3:35:12]
because we've been running
into some challenges
[3:35:14]
with the elevations.
[3:35:15]
So that's been very helpful.
[3:35:16]
But what it comes
down to is our codes
[3:35:18]
aren't the same to begin with.
[3:35:20]
And then you have the
interpretation of the code
[3:35:22]
to even add to that.
[3:35:23]
And then you have the
fact that none of us
[3:35:26]
have ever been in this situation
where some of the codes
[3:35:29]
is being challenged like it is
because for example, the height,
[3:35:34]
I'll use the height as
an example, over time.
[3:35:37]
Redevelopment over
time would probably
[3:35:39]
call for that first
floor activation
[3:35:41]
to maybe get moved up right.
[3:35:43]
And you'd have more,
say, rooftop activity.
[3:35:45]
But what we had with the
storms is like overnight,
[3:35:48]
that first floor activation,
especially for commercial
[3:35:51]
that's kind of gone away.
[3:35:53]
You've lost that space.
[3:35:54]
So you're seeing
that, well, now you're
[3:35:55]
limited because now you're
so these things are something
[3:35:58]
that we're going to continue to
at the city manager's direction,
[3:36:03]
look at any minor
tweaks and changes
[3:36:05]
that we can make to
the LDC along the way.
[3:36:07]
But we're very
mindful that it's time
[3:36:10]
we started the Comp
plan update, and it's
[3:36:16]
not the appropriate time now.
[3:36:17]
We need to but that
doesn't mean that we don't
[3:36:20]
look at these
things and at least
[3:36:21]
modify what we can
in the interim.
[3:36:24]
But I think what it's
going to really require
[3:36:25]
is that holistic, comprehensive
look, because so much has
[3:36:29]
changed and the direction
that we're going in,
[3:36:31]
we need to there's
a lot of fixes
[3:36:33]
that we need to make it easier
to redevelop and build here,
[3:36:39]
or preserve as well,
preserve and protect.
[3:36:43]
So I would so though we
can't make changes right now,
[3:36:48]
we possibly approve changes that
would be implemented when we are
[3:36:55]
able to make changes, if we've
identified areas that we think
[3:37:00]
we want that would be better
than what we have now,
[3:37:04]
we could go ahead and approve
those things for implementation.
[3:37:09]
Whenever we're able to.
[3:37:13]
Absolutely and some of it you
don't really need to wait.
[3:37:16]
I turned to Ralph
because SB 180 put
[3:37:19]
some restrictions
in place until 2027,
[3:37:21]
but it didn't
restrict everything.
[3:37:23]
It was basically if you were
going to be more restrictive,
[3:37:26]
but there's other
ways and things
[3:37:29]
that we need to be
considering now just as part
[3:37:31]
of the rebuilding process that
we can pave the way to make it
[3:37:35]
an easier process to get there.
[3:37:39]
Yeah that's great.
[3:37:40]
But that is exactly what I was
talking about is the 2027 date.
[3:37:45]
Like when that date comes.
[3:37:48]
Maybe we'll be ready to
automatically implement
[3:37:52]
a lot of changes that we've
already gone through the process
[3:37:57]
on.
[3:37:58]
It's fast approaching.
[3:38:00]
And I'm hopeful that with
the redevelopment plan
[3:38:03]
and with the community
engagement that we're going
[3:38:05]
to do as part of the
redevelopment plan, that's
[3:38:08]
a really great
opportunity to again,
[3:38:10]
you're looking at a
more specific area,
[3:38:12]
but it applies for
the whole city.
[3:38:14]
So you can use that
engagement and that input
[3:38:17]
to help inform some of the
we'll call them interim fixes
[3:38:23]
or changes or modifications
that you can make
[3:38:25]
until you can do the big stuff.
[3:38:28]
Post 2027.
[3:38:31]
Thank you.
[3:38:34]
OK thank you.
[3:38:35]
A few questions for me.
[3:38:36]
I'm sorry.
[3:38:37]
You start talking data and my
engineer lights up, I apologize.
[3:38:43]
I know you mentioned that you're
working with other communities.
[3:38:46]
Best practices,
things like that.
[3:38:48]
Are we working at.
[3:38:50]
I would like to find coming
out of there is expected
[3:38:52]
timelines per permit type.
[3:38:54]
Fences should take this long.
[3:38:56]
Seawall should take
this long as an average,
[3:38:59]
submittal to approval
kind of process.
[3:39:03]
I hope we're gathering those.
[3:39:04]
Maybe just a quick question.
[3:39:05]
Just yes.
[3:39:06]
Are we gathering those.
[3:39:06]
If not, can we.
[3:39:09]
We can.
[3:39:09]
OK thank you.
[3:39:11]
A few more.
[3:39:12]
I like the averages.
[3:39:14]
I should have started with
excellent presentation.
[3:39:16]
I sincerely
appreciate both of you
[3:39:17]
and what you provided for us.
[3:39:20]
I tend to think of averages.
[3:39:21]
Sometimes they can be skewed.
[3:39:22]
If you've got
something really long,
[3:39:23]
it'll skew the average
up really short.
[3:39:24]
You'll skew it down.
[3:39:25]
So can we possibly I don't know
if you have the data easy enough
[3:39:28]
to just add right in.
[3:39:29]
Maybe a median and a
range kind of thing
[3:39:31]
so that we can see
median will tell you
[3:39:33]
half of them take this
long and half of them
[3:39:35]
take longer kind of thing.
[3:39:36]
So we only see these
averages tend to get skewed.
[3:39:38]
Something to think about OK.
[3:39:40]
I'm sorry, I'm just rattling
them all off because I realize
[3:39:43]
we want to wrap up
at 10, but I'm not
[3:39:44]
sure that's going to happen.
[3:39:46]
She said.
[3:39:46]
We can do it, I understood.
[3:39:47]
No, I'm with you.
[3:39:48]
Thank you.
[3:39:50]
As we're breaking
out our metrics.
[3:39:53]
And you mentioned
we've got a process
[3:39:54]
and we want to start
dividing it up.
[3:39:57]
I'd like us to also consider
if we can differentiate
[3:40:00]
between what I'll call waiting
on the waiting on the applicant,
[3:40:03]
waiting on the contractor,
waiting on the city.
[3:40:06]
And really be able to
quantify only so much
[3:40:09]
of that is in our control.
[3:40:10]
The other half is not, however,
whatever is not in our control,
[3:40:14]
I would like us if we do have.
[3:40:17]
I'm sorry I'm
rattling all this off
[3:40:18]
or I apologize if we do
have expected, communities
[3:40:25]
around the area typically do a
fence with an x number of days
[3:40:28]
just to use it, for example, or
seawall within y number of days.
[3:40:30]
And then I'd like
to see if we have
[3:40:32]
alerts where a particular item
in our case goes beyond that.
[3:40:36]
That typical time frame.
[3:40:37]
It's stuck in a
part of the process.
[3:40:40]
And I want us to alert the
city staff, if possible
[3:40:42]
to identify that,
hey, this one's
[3:40:45]
one we got to follow up on.
[3:40:46]
And so I'm not necessarily
looking for answers right now
[3:40:48]
as much as things for you to
think about, as I'm thinking
[3:40:52]
about process flow in my head.
[3:40:57]
And ultimately, we're
looking at what I say.
[3:41:02]
Steady state kind of flows.
[3:41:05]
We're not in a storm
just hit us and we've
[3:41:08]
got thousands of applications.
[3:41:09]
We're kind of a little
bit beyond that.
[3:41:12]
I'd like to know that as
we look at this software
[3:41:14]
that we're anticipating
being able to stress
[3:41:17]
test that software.
[3:41:18]
Stress test our models to say
yes, we think within a fence,
[3:41:22]
within normal steady
state is pick a day.
[3:41:26]
Three days.
[3:41:26]
I don't know what it is, right.
[3:41:29]
But if we threw 1,000
of them at it at once,
[3:41:32]
obviously that's going
to clog the system up.
[3:41:33]
And I don't know if our
software, as we go out for RFP,
[3:41:37]
might allow us to do some
stress testing like that,
[3:41:40]
because right now, I don't
know that the yes, we
[3:41:42]
are still in gray skies.
[3:41:43]
I like that term.
[3:41:45]
But they're not the
pitch black skies
[3:41:46]
that we'll see the next
time the storm hits us.
[3:41:48]
And I want to make sure that we
don't as much as our software
[3:41:51]
will be improved, I don't
want us to come right
[3:41:53]
back into the same situation we
had back in September of 2020,
[3:41:55]
2024.
[3:41:57]
We can only do that
as part of the RFP,
[3:41:59]
and we should stress test
the operating model as well.
[3:42:02]
Not just software but agreed.
[3:42:04]
And then last question.
[3:42:05]
I'm sorry.
[3:42:06]
And I know I rattle
a lot I apologize.
[3:42:08]
What's the date that
we're looking possibly
[3:42:10]
to have a goal for if we're
going to consider new software,
[3:42:15]
do we have an RFP that's got a
date that says we'd like to be
[3:42:17]
considering them in this date.
[3:42:20]
The only date that I had
committed to into as of now,
[3:42:24]
was trying to get an RFP, the
materials and scope of work
[3:42:27]
together by June.
[3:42:28]
But as far as when we would
like to if I understand
[3:42:31]
your question, you're looking
for when we might want to look
[3:42:34]
beyond the schedule
of implementation
[3:42:36]
or choosing new software
and implementing.
[3:42:38]
Yeah when do we want
to choose that vendor.
[3:42:40]
If we're going to go
with a different vendor,
[3:42:41]
when would we want to
choose that vendor.
[3:42:43]
Yeah, I mean, the last one
that we did here, now, it was
[3:42:46]
started well before I got here.
[3:42:47]
A matter of fact, they were at
the tail end of the decision
[3:42:49]
when I got here, probably
six or so months or more.
[3:42:55]
I worked on it for the last.
[3:42:57]
The first two or three
months I was here
[3:42:59]
before they kind of
decided to put it down,
[3:43:02]
essentially shelve it.
[3:43:03]
So I would say probably within
six months of the RFP going out,
[3:43:06]
hopefully we can be ready
to make some decisions.
[3:43:09]
Of course, that's provided
that money's funding is there
[3:43:11]
and that's the
direction we understood.
[3:43:13]
Of course.
[3:43:13]
Yeah understood.
[3:43:14]
OK thank you.
[3:43:16]
Thank you.
[3:43:22]
OK I'm looking at the agenda.
[3:43:24]
I think what's next
is audience comments.
[3:43:25]
And I'm used to seeing it
much earlier in the night.
[3:43:27]
But here we are.
[3:43:28]
Audience comments.
[3:43:29]
Is there any comments
from the audience, please.
[3:43:31]
Yes Sandy mayor.
[3:43:38]
Good evening, late Sandy
mayor, 8911 blind pass
[3:43:42]
road, Boca shores condos.
[3:43:45]
My husband and I bought
our condo back in 2000,
[3:43:49]
so we've seen a lot
happen in ST Pete Beach.
[3:43:53]
However, if you're
familiar with the area,
[3:43:56]
there's a little park called
Egan park right next to us
[3:43:59]
between Captiva Cay
and poco shores.
[3:44:03]
I don't know when it was
during those last 25 years
[3:44:07]
when the public works department
decided that they'd taken,
[3:44:11]
like a fourth of
it to put equipment
[3:44:13]
and stuff, storm debris,
it's been a lot of stuff
[3:44:18]
through the years.
[3:44:19]
But anyway, I was taking
my walk to the beach Monday
[3:44:23]
and as I came back, I decided
to walk around Eden Park
[3:44:28]
and I heard this really loud
noise behind me, and I looked.
[3:44:31]
And it was like this huge truck.
[3:44:34]
And so I thought, what is that.
[3:44:35]
I looked at the side
and I took pictures.
[3:44:38]
Sewer equipment
company of America.
[3:44:40]
And I thought, what
are they doing here.
[3:44:43]
Anyway, I followed
them and they backed up
[3:44:46]
in the big fourth portion
that is all public works.
[3:44:52]
And they started
dumping some stuff.
[3:44:56]
So I went over and I looked.
[3:44:58]
And it was like a
bunch of sludge.
[3:45:00]
I mean, we've had all kinds
of stuff in that area,
[3:45:04]
but this is first time I've
seen something look like sludge.
[3:45:06]
Well, one of our other
neighbors called public works,
[3:45:09]
and they said, well.
[3:45:12]
It's from drains from the
storm that they're getting
[3:45:16]
with barnacles and
all this stuff,
[3:45:19]
and they're dumping it there.
[3:45:20]
I mean, just on the
ground right by the hedge
[3:45:23]
between the park and the road.
[3:45:26]
Anyway, I just have
a couple questions
[3:45:30]
and you don't have
to answer them today,
[3:45:32]
but I would hope
that in the future
[3:45:33]
we can talk further about this.
[3:45:35]
We have met with
public works before
[3:45:37]
and we've had great
relationships.
[3:45:39]
But my number one question is,
do you think that's a good thing
[3:45:43]
to do where kids are playing
baseball, where people are
[3:45:47]
playing tennis, where
there's a basketball
[3:45:49]
goal, where people
are using the ramp
[3:45:52]
to put their boat in the water.
[3:45:54]
And number 2, wouldn't it make
sense instead of in such a high.
[3:45:59]
And I know ST Pete Beach is
a highly developed area, well
[3:46:03]
populated, but it would
make more sense to me
[3:46:06]
not to put something like
that in such a populated area
[3:46:09]
and maybe go into
Pinellas County somewhere
[3:46:12]
where we could dump
stuff like that.
[3:46:15]
So those are my questions.
[3:46:16]
Something to think
about and hopefully we
[3:46:18]
can talk about in the future.
[3:46:20]
It's past my bedtime.
[3:46:21]
Oh appreciate it.
[3:46:22]
Thank you.
[3:46:25]
Kathy past my bedtime too.
[3:46:32]
Good evening.
[3:46:33]
Mayor commissioners.
[3:46:35]
Yeah, it's four
hours for me here.
[3:46:38]
Probably is long for
you all for an item
[3:46:41]
on the agenda that I came in
here pretty hopeful about.
[3:46:45]
Excited about.
[3:46:46]
But I think if I heard you,
I think Commissioner Robinson
[3:46:50]
maybe pulled the consent item B,
which I was looking forward to
[3:46:58]
is I think a lot
of our neighborhood
[3:47:00]
is to see the city finally
execute a contract to get what
[3:47:06]
is kind of a
misnomer, calling it
[3:47:08]
a stormwater outfall
when all we experience
[3:47:11]
is salt water in fall.
[3:47:15]
It's been happening
for years and years.
[3:47:18]
This contract is now at 13.
[3:47:22]
Stormwater outfalls involved
in it, not just the five.
[3:47:24]
And Don says that should
have been executed
[3:47:27]
probably two years ago.
[3:47:29]
But because I'm going to say and
you should ask the city staff.
[3:47:34]
But my understanding from
working very closely with
[3:47:37]
the team, it's really hard
to get attention to a project
[3:47:42]
that's less than $100,000.
[3:47:45]
So you combine a massive
amount to try to get it done,
[3:47:49]
and we've been
waiting for years.
[3:47:51]
The impact of not
having this is real.
[3:47:56]
Our high tides right
now are over 2 feet.
[3:47:59]
And you all know our
streets on average
[3:48:01]
are 1 and 1/2 to two feet.
[3:48:04]
But we're not even
talking about the street
[3:48:05]
ends where all this water
sits and accumulates.
[3:48:08]
It's there, it's real,
and it's a problem.
[3:48:10]
And we need you to act
with urgency on this.
[3:48:13]
I don't understand why you
decided to punt on it tonight.
[3:48:18]
It's frustrating.
[3:48:20]
And it takes eight months
for this contract to happen.
[3:48:22]
But yeah, tell me, tell
me that you're going to be
[3:48:25]
able to decide on this tonight.
[3:48:26]
OK When it gets
pulled from consent,
[3:48:29]
it just means it turns
into an action item.
[3:48:32]
Hallelujah thank you.
[3:48:33]
I was like, oh my God.
[3:48:35]
I had questions on it.
[3:48:36]
You have questions on it.
[3:48:37]
OK, good.
[3:48:38]
Well that's fine.
[3:48:39]
Questions are great.
[3:48:40]
I just thought that it
meant that it wasn't going
[3:48:43]
to get decided on tonight.
[3:48:44]
And I was kind of
heartbroken for that, so yay.
[3:48:47]
All right, well,
he asked questions,
[3:48:49]
but I guess you can
hear my request.
[3:48:52]
Please approve it.
[3:48:53]
Thanks Thank you.
[3:48:57]
Other public comments.
[3:48:59]
Deborah scheckner.
[3:49:03]
OK grant.
[3:49:05]
Izzy good evening.
[3:49:13]
Grant isea 203 59th Avenue.
[3:49:17]
Again for hours here.
[3:49:18]
But just to make a
couple of comments.
[3:49:21]
So I almost feel guilty
doing that since everyone's
[3:49:23]
been waiting.
[3:49:24]
First of all, I want
to say thank you like I
[3:49:28]
always do when I get up here.
[3:49:29]
First thing I want
to do is thank you
[3:49:30]
for your service
to the community
[3:49:35]
and the time away
from your families.
[3:49:37]
Doing service of
any kind is noble,
[3:49:40]
and so I really appreciate it.
[3:49:42]
We all appreciate it.
[3:49:43]
We may not always agree with
you, but we appreciate it.
[3:49:47]
And then congratulations
to Commissioner
[3:49:50]
Causey and Mayor Tate.
[3:49:53]
This is some people say
elections have consequences.
[3:49:59]
But I know a number
of people, including
[3:50:00]
myself, that really say
elections bring opportunities.
[3:50:04]
So this is a good
day for our city.
[3:50:08]
A few opportunities that I want
you to think about that I think
[3:50:12]
are important, and
that our city needs
[3:50:14]
right now more than anything.
[3:50:16]
Solving problems, real
problems is one of them.
[3:50:21]
We need you to lead
and make decisions
[3:50:25]
by using facts, not emotions.
[3:50:29]
OK facts are what take
you to the right solution
[3:50:35]
and it will help you avoid
things, which it's kind of been
[3:50:37]
rampant here is problems looking
for a solution or solution
[3:50:43]
looking for a problem.
[3:50:44]
And so ask the right questions.
[3:50:49]
Ask what problem are
we trying to solve.
[3:50:52]
When you're being asked to
approve something because that
[3:50:55]
may take you down
a different road,
[3:50:57]
but it will be the right road.
[3:51:00]
Bring the community together.
[3:51:04]
The toxic atmosphere in this
community that pits people
[3:51:07]
against each other,
compounds the problem
[3:51:12]
when you have to
solve the big problems
[3:51:15]
because we're not
working together,
[3:51:17]
so really need you to do that
so we can really move forward.
[3:51:21]
Whether it's a big problem or
big issue like this thunder
[3:51:24]
thing, if we were
working together,
[3:51:27]
I bet you we would
solve that problem.
[3:51:30]
Clarify the vision of what
we want ST Pete Beach to be.
[3:51:35]
I think we all want
the same thing,
[3:51:37]
but it doesn't seem like it.
[3:51:40]
So we need some clarification.
[3:51:42]
Just for example, on
this road project,
[3:51:46]
do we need bike lanes or not.
[3:51:47]
What's the big
vision for ST Pete
[3:51:49]
Beach and making it an
accessible, walkable, rideable
[3:51:52]
city.
[3:51:53]
Does this.
[3:51:53]
Does that particular road fit
in to the overall big vision.
[3:51:56]
What is the vision
our neighborhoods.
[3:51:59]
What are the vision that
needs to be clarified
[3:52:02]
so we can make decisions.
[3:52:04]
And then finally
process improvements.
[3:52:08]
Great briefing,
but we're not going
[3:52:10]
to get anywhere unless we have
goals that we can measure by.
[3:52:16]
Thank you.
[3:52:17]
Thanks, sir.
[3:52:19]
Lauren Munez.
[3:52:29]
Lauren Munez.
[3:52:31]
Pastor girl.
[3:52:32]
So, problem number one,
amending the minutes verbatim,
[3:52:37]
but missing the intent of
the voting government body.
[3:52:43]
Intent is crucial.
[3:52:44]
Even if it's not spoken.
[3:52:48]
Legislative intent of
the legislative body
[3:52:52]
is mandatory language.
[3:52:53]
And y'all miss that.
[3:52:56]
Y'all miss that.
[3:52:59]
Problem number two not amending.
[3:53:02]
Exhibit A. My understanding
is that you're
[3:53:04]
going to amend the minutes,
but not amend the ordinance.
[3:53:08]
Is that correct.
[3:53:10]
You don't have to answer because
I know you're not allowed
[3:53:12]
to answer right now, but if
I understand that correctly,
[3:53:17]
then you'll have the minutes
disagreeing with the ordinance.
[3:53:24]
That's a break in
due process, correct
[3:53:28]
Yes there's no transparency.
[3:53:32]
There's no record of anything.
[3:53:35]
Put you guys in a really
weak spot, litigation wise.
[3:53:40]
Problem number 3.
[3:53:42]
You took out utility
poles, Ralph, for setbacks.
[3:53:47]
The citizens always
had the language
[3:53:50]
for months saying setbacks
are for wireless support
[3:53:53]
structures and utility poles.
[3:53:56]
Now it says.
[3:54:01]
Wireless support structures,
not including utility poles.
[3:54:06]
What's that about.
[3:54:07]
They're all utility poles.
[3:54:09]
All the wireless antennas
right now are on utility poles.
[3:54:13]
Why would you take that out.
[3:54:16]
Did they tell you
to take it out.
[3:54:17]
The old commission.
[3:54:18]
Did they instruct you.
[3:54:20]
Are you overstepping
your advisory role again.
[3:54:22]
I think so.
[3:54:24]
I think this commission needs
to evaluate his position
[3:54:28]
because he's an interim attorney
and he's not doing a good job.
[3:54:36]
He needs to be evaluated.
[3:54:37]
And you pulled.
[3:54:39]
Not you.
[3:54:40]
Not you.
[3:54:41]
The other commission pulled
his evaluation from the agenda.
[3:54:46]
My understanding of
it, I could be wrong,
[3:54:48]
but that's what I was told.
[3:54:50]
He's never been evaluated
since the renewing
[3:54:52]
of the contract with his firm.
[3:54:55]
Problem number four,
you are forcing
[3:54:57]
it back to first
and second reading
[3:55:00]
when it already was voted on.
[3:55:04]
I hope you guys
are proud of this.
[3:55:07]
It's sad.
[3:55:08]
It's sad how you
all have shown up.
[3:55:11]
And it breaks my
heart to be honest,
[3:55:12]
because you all put a lot of
time into this and so did we.
[3:55:17]
And now you want to put
more time into this.
[3:55:22]
You guys think I'm going
to back down because you
[3:55:24]
keep giving me problems.
[3:55:25]
I'm going to turn it
up 10 notches now.
[3:55:29]
Thank you.
[3:55:32]
Thank you, Ron Vigneault.
OK Avignon make up as well.
[3:55:58]
OK John, did you write this.
[3:56:04]
I guess you wrote it.
[3:56:05]
Yeah it's your name
there, and it's.
[3:56:08]
It's sent to Becky.
[3:56:10]
Becky is the boss of Ralph.
[3:56:12]
So you wrote again.
[3:56:14]
And I have tons of those things.
[3:56:16]
You wrote again to
Becky, the boss of Ralph.
[3:56:19]
You intend.
[3:56:20]
And it's all about the intent.
[3:56:23]
What does it say.
[3:56:34]
See here.
[3:56:37]
Mandatory it says mandatory.
[3:56:39]
Can you see it.
[3:56:40]
John, look.
[3:56:41]
Look on the paper.
[3:56:43]
Why are you looking at me.
[3:56:45]
Have you passed out.
[3:56:46]
Look on the paper.
[3:56:47]
You wrote that.
[3:56:49]
That's your intent.
[3:56:51]
You fought for this for
months a year and a half.
[3:56:54]
My wife and we've been working a
year and a half with all of you.
[3:56:57]
I mean, not the Al and Scott.
[3:57:01]
We spoke, we talked about this.
[3:57:04]
It was out there.
[3:57:05]
And you put that
motion that night
[3:57:07]
and you wrote that to Becky.
[3:57:08]
So that's a proof.
[3:57:09]
That's what you wanted.
[3:57:11]
Now you're letting this
guy walk all over you.
[3:57:15]
He works for you.
[3:57:16]
He works for me.
[3:57:18]
And this guy is
walking all over you.
[3:57:24]
And, Lisa, are
you proud of that.
[3:57:27]
You intended to have protection.
[3:57:30]
This guy took it away from you.
[3:57:33]
He took what you wanted to do.
[3:57:35]
He took what Jon wanted to do.
[3:57:36]
I don't know who's getting
the money, who's paying who,
[3:57:40]
but it's dirty.
[3:57:41]
It's very, very dirty.
[3:57:43]
And I feel sorry for you, Scott.
[3:57:45]
You just walked in the
biggest fucking mess ever.
[3:57:49]
And I spoke tonight
to so many people.
[3:57:52]
The room, the room
was full, so I had
[3:57:54]
a chance to talk to everybody.
[3:57:56]
And everybody thinks
this guy is corrupt.
[3:57:59]
Corrupt to the bone.
[3:58:02]
So we need a public
investigation.
[3:58:05]
Ron, please.
[3:58:05]
Please yeah, yeah.
[3:58:06]
Point of order.
[3:58:07]
Just stop the attacks, please.
[3:58:09]
Well, no, those are not attacks.
[3:58:11]
The facts.
[3:58:12]
Everybody thinks
this guy is corrupt.
[3:58:14]
City clerk, would you pause
the timer for a second while
[3:58:17]
I ask kindly that
the mayor would
[3:58:19]
remind people of the decorum
that's required here.
[3:58:24]
Yeah thank you.
[3:58:25]
OK, I get it, I get it, but I
still have some time to speak.
[3:58:30]
Point of order.
[3:58:31]
Point of order.
[3:58:33]
Yeah just stop the attacks.
[3:58:34]
Please please keep it factual.
[3:58:35]
Facts everybody's
talking about it.
[3:58:38]
Scott, are you going
to overlook that.
[3:58:41]
You're going to let that go.
[3:58:42]
I don't think you should
be calling the liar
[3:58:43]
just out here like this.
[3:58:44]
I think that's inappropriate.
[3:58:45]
So why look at this.
[3:58:48]
What is this, then.
[3:58:49]
That's his intent.
[3:58:51]
And he's letting
this guy override it.
[3:58:54]
That's not democracy, that's
communism, that's dictatorship.
[3:58:58]
This guy is running
the show here,
[3:59:01]
and he has no place
to run the show.
[3:59:04]
I mean, Scott, you
just walked in.
[3:59:05]
I'm sorry about that.
[3:59:06]
But Lisa spoke.
[3:59:08]
John spoke, and
they shut them up.
[3:59:10]
Someone is shutting them up.
[3:59:12]
Time up.
[3:59:12]
It's time is up.
[3:59:13]
Thank you.
[3:59:14]
And now she's shutting me up.
[3:59:16]
But this is the beginning
of something really big.
[3:59:19]
We speak with all the media, and
it's going to go very, very far.
[3:59:22]
Thank you.
[3:59:22]
Ron people will get
what they deserve.
[3:59:26]
Thank you.
[3:59:26]
Sick fucking sick.
[3:59:29]
Shame on you.
[3:59:33]
John kurzmann.
[3:59:38]
We could also refrain from
using swear words because this
[3:59:42]
is in the internet.
[3:59:44]
Children could be watching.
[3:59:45]
It's not appropriate.
[3:59:46]
Not you.
[3:59:47]
But when we come up, if
we don't swear as well as
[3:59:50]
not use personal attacks.
[3:59:53]
Sorry, I didn't mean to jump up.
[3:59:56]
No, please.
[3:59:57]
Come on up, John.
[3:59:58]
Thank you.
[4:00:00]
Could you Zoom in.
[4:00:01]
Really really.
[4:00:02]
On just a picture next to Zoom.
[4:00:08]
So, John kurzman, Bahia
Honda way, ST Pete Beach.
[4:00:13]
So I wasn't going to
talk about this today,
[4:00:16]
but the talk about the Boca
ciega drive prompted me.
[4:00:20]
This, for instance, is
one of our bike lanes
[4:00:21]
over by Don Cesar.
[4:00:23]
Notice the skid marks right
through the middle of the lane.
[4:00:28]
This is the Florida
statute that says
[4:00:30]
the driver of a
vehicle overtaking
[4:00:32]
a bicycle or other
non-motorized vehicle,
[4:00:34]
or an e-bike occupying
the same lane,
[4:00:37]
must pass the bicycle
at a safe distance
[4:00:40]
of not less than three feet.
[4:00:42]
It also says in number three the
driver of a vehicle overtaking
[4:00:46]
a bicycle or other
non-motorized vehicle,
[4:00:48]
or an electric bike occupying a
bicycle lane, which is what we
[4:00:51]
often do, must pass the
vehicle at a safe distance
[4:00:55]
of not less than three feet.
[4:00:57]
This never happens
on Gulf Boulevard.
[4:00:59]
It never happens
anywhere in our city.
[4:01:02]
And it's dangerous.
[4:01:04]
Now, recently, the
state has come up
[4:01:06]
with a new law for
e-bikes, where now they're
[4:01:09]
going to say that if
you're in on the sidewalk,
[4:01:13]
you can go 10 miles an hour.
[4:01:16]
Well, they're saying
you can go any speed,
[4:01:18]
but at 10 miles
an hour, if you're
[4:01:19]
within 50 feet of a person,
that's a great step.
[4:01:22]
I think, in our city.
[4:01:23]
We might want to undo the
law that was mistakenly
[4:01:26]
made because it
wasn't made properly,
[4:01:29]
and make the law be
just 10 miles an hour
[4:01:32]
when you're on the
sidewalk at any time.
[4:01:34]
But at least let the e-bikes
back on the sidewalk.
[4:01:37]
And let me explain why.
[4:01:38]
This, for instance, is
a picture of the sun
[4:01:40]
runner over in South Pasadena.
[4:01:42]
But notice the size
of the sunrunner.
[4:01:45]
It's totally over the line.
[4:01:48]
This is the sunrunner that
almost hit me in the head.
[4:01:51]
January 13 I was on my bike in
the bike lane and look at that
[4:01:56]
mirror.
[4:01:56]
The mirror is in the
middle of the bike lane.
[4:02:01]
And then here's it is
without me circling it.
[4:02:02]
So you can really
see the mirror.
[4:02:05]
I mean, I felt the
wind go over my head.
[4:02:08]
So then we get to this lane.
[4:02:13]
They currently have two 11 foot
lanes and a three foot bike lane
[4:02:19]
and a 2 foot 2 bike
lane that makes 27.
[4:02:22]
So you've got 27 to
work with and you
[4:02:25]
could smooth out the curbs.
[4:02:26]
Great but don't turn
it into a 22 foot lane.
[4:02:32]
Which road.
[4:02:33]
Which is what's
being recommended.
[4:02:35]
First off, notice that
those are both shadow lanes.
[4:02:39]
Shadow lanes is the word for
where the bike and the car
[4:02:42]
share the lane.
[4:02:43]
But normally, when
you have narrow lanes.
[4:02:45]
There's two lanes
in each direction.
[4:02:47]
That way a car can pass
the guy on the bike.
[4:02:50]
What this is doing is it means.
[4:02:53]
That means you see TxDOT
traffic calming device.
[4:02:57]
Everybody on a bicycle becomes
a traffic calming device.
[4:03:00]
That's not fair to us.
[4:03:01]
We shouldn't be the ones
holding back traffic.
[4:03:04]
We need a way to get around.
[4:03:06]
And they do.
[4:03:07]
Also, when you do
this implementation,
[4:03:08]
you have to move
all the mailboxes,
[4:03:10]
which is one of the reasons
people weren't happy.
[4:03:12]
And there's no parking.
[4:03:13]
So I just recommend that we
really rethink this whole bike
[4:03:16]
lane strategy in general.
[4:03:18]
Thank you.
[4:03:19]
Thank you.
[4:03:21]
There are no further
general audience comments.
[4:03:25]
OK thank you.
[4:03:28]
Next, we have the
amended consent agenda.
[4:03:33]
Do we need to read it.
[4:03:33]
Is there a reading of it or
I can read the resolution.
[4:03:37]
Do we need to
continue the meeting.
[4:03:39]
Continue the meeting.
[4:03:40]
I'm sorry.
[4:03:41]
Wow Yeah, yeah.
[4:03:43]
OK, I'll make a motion to
continue the meeting to 10:30.
[4:03:47]
I second.
[4:03:52]
10:30 commissioner Causey.
[4:03:58]
Yes commissioner.
[4:03:59]
Maldonado yes.
[4:04:00]
Mayor Tate.
[4:04:01]
Yes vice mayor.
[4:04:02]
Marriott yes.
[4:04:03]
Commissioner Robinson.
[4:04:04]
Yes The motion carries.
[4:04:10]
There's a resolution
on the consent agenda.
[4:04:12]
So I would just like to
read the title of it.
[4:04:14]
We don't have to discuss it.
[4:04:15]
A resolution number 2020
608, a resolution of the city
[4:04:19]
commission of the
city of ST Pete Beach
[4:04:21]
to establish a temporary amnesty
program to temporarily waive
[4:04:25]
the triple fee penalty for after
the fact building permit fees
[4:04:29]
beginning February 16, 2026,
through and including June 30,
[4:04:33]
2026 for permit applications
for repair or demolition
[4:04:36]
of storm damaged structures and
for installation of materials
[4:04:40]
and equipment within and
attached to storm damaged
[4:04:43]
structures, establishing
a minimum reserve fund
[4:04:46]
and providing for
an effective date.
[4:04:53]
I'll make a motion to
approve the consent agenda.
[4:04:55]
I second.
[4:05:00]
Commissioner Maldonado.
[4:05:01]
Yes mayor Tate.
[4:05:02]
Yes vice mayor.
[4:05:03]
Marriott yes.
[4:05:04]
Commissioner Robinson.
[4:05:05]
Yes commissioner Casey
Yes Motion carries.
[4:05:11]
Correction that motion
should be to approve
[4:05:13]
the consent agenda, as amended.
[4:05:15]
As amended.
[4:05:15]
Yes do I need to start
over, or can I just say no.
[4:05:18]
That's OK.
[4:05:19]
OK thank you.
[4:05:22]
That's right.
[4:05:22]
Yeah I know.
[4:05:23]
No that's fine.
[4:05:24]
We'll be next.
[4:05:26]
We're going to
approve B separately.
[4:05:28]
Sure OK.
[4:05:30]
I also understand that we
moved an item out of here
[4:05:32]
into the action items.
[4:05:33]
I don't know if it goes
first or goes go second to.
[4:05:36]
Now now.
[4:05:37]
Perfect thank you.
[4:05:39]
Mayor due to the interest and
technicality of this project,
[4:05:45]
I've asked public
services director
[4:05:48]
Mills to give a brief overview
of the project for you
[4:05:51]
before you ask questions.
[4:05:53]
Is that the desire
of the commission,
[4:05:54]
or would you like to
just ask questions.
[4:05:58]
Frankly, I personally would like
to hear it, but that's fine.
[4:06:01]
Yeah no objection.
[4:06:02]
OK OK.
[4:06:09]
Good evening.
[4:06:10]
Mayor commissioners,
for the record, Camden
[4:06:12]
Mills public services director.
[4:06:14]
So I appreciate the
opportunity tonight
[4:06:16]
to provide some
clarification on the proposed
[4:06:18]
project for the Boca ciega Bay
stormwater outfall improvements.
[4:06:23]
This project is a combination of
three of our capital projects.
[4:06:27]
One for the Bella vista
neighborhood, one for the dances
[4:06:29]
are and then another for the
pass-a-grille neighborhood.
[4:06:33]
We package those
3 into one project
[4:06:36]
in the effort of having
economies of scale
[4:06:39]
and hopefully
getting better bids.
[4:06:41]
So our project
goal with this was
[4:06:44]
to improve the city's
ability to access,
[4:06:46]
inspect, maintain, and preserve
functionality of tide backflow
[4:06:51]
valves at 13 different
locations to help
[4:06:54]
reduce sunny day flooding.
[4:06:58]
This image that you
see here, this is what
[4:07:00]
I mean by sunny day flooding.
[4:07:02]
This is where when we have
high tides, elevated water
[4:07:05]
in the Bay, that
pressure backflows
[4:07:08]
into our stormwater
system and then
[4:07:09]
ultimately into our roadways.
[4:07:13]
This graph here,
this shows recorded
[4:07:16]
water levels near the dances
are place based on a gauge.
[4:07:21]
That's out in ST Petersburg.
[4:07:24]
You can see here in
the bottom of the chart
[4:07:26]
that gray stripe that
represents the existing roadway,
[4:07:29]
elevations in that
neighborhood, which
[4:07:31]
range from about 1.5 up to 2.5.
[4:07:34]
And then that up and down line.
[4:07:36]
Those are the
recorded water levels.
[4:07:38]
So what this graph demonstrates
is that pretty frequently.
[4:07:42]
We have tide elevations that
are higher than our existing
[4:07:45]
roadway elevations.
[4:07:49]
This exhibit here, this just
shows an example of the maritana
[4:07:53]
neighborhood specifically.
[4:07:55]
So you can see here where we
have the roadway that ranges
[4:07:58]
in the 1.6 1.7 feet range
and then our seawall up
[4:08:03]
at the 5 foot elevation.
[4:08:05]
This is a condition
where we have sunny day
[4:08:07]
and a low tide and
a no check valve.
[4:08:10]
So you can see in this scenario
there is no roadway flooding.
[4:08:14]
When we move into
the scenario where
[4:08:15]
we do have those high tides
that occur on a monthly basis,
[4:08:19]
where those tides are
elevated in our roads,
[4:08:22]
in a situation where we
don't have a tide check
[4:08:24]
valve in place, that water
would find its elevation
[4:08:27]
and the elevation of
the water in the road
[4:08:29]
would match that tide
elevation out into the Bay.
[4:08:34]
And that's the purpose
of the tide check valve
[4:08:36]
there, as you can see
with this example.
[4:08:38]
The goal of these tide check
valves is when the Bay Water is
[4:08:41]
elevated at an elevation
higher than our roads,
[4:08:44]
that tide check
valve is in place
[4:08:46]
to help block it so our
roadways don't get flooded.
[4:08:49]
Now, important thing that I'd
like to point out with this
[4:08:53]
project it is a sunny day
tidal flooding tool to combat.
[4:08:57]
It does not address rainfall,
flooding or stormwater flooding.
[4:09:01]
So in this scenario,
this is when
[4:09:03]
we have a rainy day and a
high tide and no check valve.
[4:09:06]
You're going to have
flooding in your roadway.
[4:09:08]
But even in this scenario where
it's a rainy day, high tide
[4:09:12]
and you do have a
check valve, you're
[4:09:14]
still going to have
flooding in that roadway
[4:09:17]
until that tide
is able to lower,
[4:09:19]
and then that water can
evacuate off the roadway
[4:09:22]
and through the system.
[4:09:23]
So this is just a
point of clarification
[4:09:25]
that the goal of this
project is tidal flooding,
[4:09:28]
sunny day flooding,
not necessarily
[4:09:30]
rainfall or stormwater.
[4:09:33]
This here just gives you a
graphic of some of the existing
[4:09:37]
tie check valves.
[4:09:38]
So these are what we have
in our current condition.
[4:09:41]
These are passive
type valves that
[4:09:43]
open when the water
on the back side of it
[4:09:45]
is greater than the
pressure on the other side.
[4:09:48]
Some of these are installed at
the outfall end of the pipe,
[4:09:51]
as you can see at the
picture on the left.
[4:09:54]
In a lot of cases, these
are typically submerged.
[4:09:57]
These are ones that
we currently use
[4:09:59]
commercial divers to maintain.
[4:10:01]
And then in the
bottom right corner
[4:10:03]
here, this is an example of the
same type of passive tide check
[4:10:06]
valve installed in a structure.
[4:10:09]
And as you can see in these
current configurations,
[4:10:12]
we're able to only really
maintain one side of that valve
[4:10:15]
as it's situated
currently, we're
[4:10:17]
not able to access both sides of
that valve to clean and inspect.
[4:10:23]
With the proposed
those projects.
[4:10:25]
We're proposing to install
a concrete vault structure
[4:10:30]
box where the tie check valve
would fit inside of that,
[4:10:34]
which is shown in blue.
[4:10:35]
Here, that tie check
valve in section of pipe
[4:10:38]
would be able to
be disconnected.
[4:10:40]
And lifted up out of that vault,
which would allow us to be
[4:10:43]
able to maintain both
sides of that valve,
[4:10:45]
but would also
give us the ability
[4:10:47]
to maintain landside rather than
having to maintain in the water.
[4:10:52]
As you can see in
this graph here
[4:10:53]
where I've highlighted
the lines with orange,
[4:10:56]
those are hatch doors.
[4:10:58]
So those would be at grade.
[4:10:59]
Those doors would
be able to open up.
[4:11:00]
And then we'd be able to get
inside that vault to access it.
[4:11:05]
This image here, this just shows
a typical baffle structure.
[4:11:09]
The purpose of these
is to catch debris,
[4:11:13]
sediment and any
floatables before it
[4:11:15]
gets to the tie check valve.
[4:11:17]
So the purpose of
here is if we had,
[4:11:20]
tree limbs or different
types of debris that
[4:11:22]
would get caught in that valve.
[4:11:23]
We installed these type
of baffle structures
[4:11:25]
upstream to try to
capture that, so it
[4:11:28]
doesn't decrease
the functionality
[4:11:31]
of the check valve.
[4:11:33]
So with this project,
we are looking
[4:11:35]
at two different locations in
the Bella vista neighborhood.
[4:11:38]
As shown here on the map.
[4:11:40]
This image on the right.
[4:11:41]
This is just an excerpt
from the construction
[4:11:43]
plans for this project.
[4:11:45]
The orange lines is the
existing storm pipe.
[4:11:48]
And you can see where
we with that gray box.
[4:11:51]
That's what we're proposing
for that check valve
[4:11:54]
vault vault structure
which can be
[4:11:57]
accessible with our utilities.
[4:11:58]
Crane truck from the roadway.
[4:12:01]
We're also looking at five
different locations in dancer.
[4:12:05]
These are the
locations that already
[4:12:06]
have an elevated seawall.
[4:12:09]
As you can see here on
the image of the left.
[4:12:12]
This is the Don Jose location.
[4:12:15]
And that or that red box
that's hatched out that
[4:12:18]
will be about the footprint of
where that maintenance valve box
[4:12:21]
would be in those locations.
[4:12:22]
So we're putting them
immediately downstream
[4:12:24]
of the existing curb inlets.
[4:12:28]
And then we're also looking
at six different locations
[4:12:31]
in pass-a-grille.
[4:12:32]
The pass-a-grille tie check
valves were installed around
[4:12:34]
the 2016 2017 time frame.
[4:12:37]
And we're seeing
similar type of issues
[4:12:39]
where we still
have tidal flooding
[4:12:41]
in their current configuration.
[4:12:43]
They're difficult to maintain
with our existing staff.
[4:12:48]
So the project
budget for this, we
[4:12:51]
through the city's capital
improvement plan funding,
[4:12:53]
we had about $1.7 million
remaining for this project that
[4:12:58]
comes from our local
flooding mitigation fund,
[4:13:01]
as well as our water
quality improvement fund.
[4:13:04]
When we put this project out to
bid, we did receive two bids.
[4:13:07]
The low bid that met the
qualifications of our criteria
[4:13:10]
was about $1.1 million.
[4:13:14]
A million of that
is for construction,
[4:13:16]
and then about
$100,000 of that is
[4:13:17]
for contingencies
for any unforeseen
[4:13:20]
or unknowns that may arise.
[4:13:22]
So the proposed project
is within the budgeted
[4:13:26]
funds through our SIP.
[4:13:29]
And then discussing
with our operations team
[4:13:31]
and evaluating what
the operations impact
[4:13:34]
would be of this project.
[4:13:36]
First is increase our
ability for maintenance.
[4:13:39]
So this would reduce our
needs for commercial divers
[4:13:42]
and give us the ability to
maintain these check valves
[4:13:45]
in-house with our crane truck.
[4:13:47]
And then also preserve the
functionality of these check
[4:13:50]
valves, being able
to access them
[4:13:53]
from land where we can
maintain both sides
[4:13:55]
of those check valves.
[4:13:57]
And then also
having those baffle
[4:13:58]
structures that catch
the debris upstream
[4:14:01]
before it gets to those valves.
[4:14:03]
Ultimately, these are the two
main goals of this project,
[4:14:06]
is to increase our
ability to maintain
[4:14:08]
and then preserve functionality
of those check valves.
[4:14:12]
With that, I'm happy to answer
any questions Mr. Robinson.
[4:14:20]
I just wanted to make
sure that I guess
[4:14:24]
my question revolves around this
project hasn't been maintained.
[4:14:30]
So that's where we're at
right now trying to do that.
[4:14:35]
But is it a project.
[4:14:39]
Does this work.
[4:14:41]
I mean, if it's
maintained, is it work.
[4:14:43]
Are you confident in its
ability to do the job.
[4:14:47]
I am confident that this project
would increase our ability
[4:14:51]
to maintain these
check valves which,
[4:14:53]
which we don't currently have.
[4:14:55]
And are there any
other solutions
[4:14:57]
for the issues at hand for the
flooding for tidal flooding.
[4:15:03]
This is really the best option
that we have at hand right now.
[4:15:06]
I mean, ultimately
down the road we
[4:15:07]
would look for pump stations
for to try to evacuate some
[4:15:11]
of that water,
especially when we look
[4:15:13]
at the rainfall type problem.
[4:15:15]
But this is a type of solution.
[4:15:17]
Then we vetted this through
other communities as well.
[4:15:20]
Fort Lauderdale,
ST Augustine, some
[4:15:23]
of these other
coastal communities
[4:15:24]
that have similar issues.
[4:15:26]
And they've all kind of came
we started out with the check
[4:15:29]
valves on the pipe end,
and then we moved to more
[4:15:32]
of an in-line type valve.
[4:15:33]
And this is kind of what
people are moving to is closer
[4:15:36]
to the roadway,
something in a vault that
[4:15:38]
isn't dependent on
maintenance underwater.
[4:15:41]
I just want to make sure that
it's not a Band-Aid, that we're
[4:15:45]
not spending this type
of money for a Band-Aid,
[4:15:48]
and we're going to be down the
road going, oh, we spent this,
[4:15:51]
but we need to do this now.
[4:15:53]
I'm just trying to
think of the big picture
[4:15:56]
on here versus if there was
something that was a better
[4:16:03]
option, let's say,
then my question
[4:16:07]
would be how much does it
cost to have divers go in
[4:16:10]
and do this.
[4:16:11]
And what is the
maintenance schedule
[4:16:14]
for something like this.
[4:16:17]
So I think this is the best tool
that we can do for a low cost,
[4:16:21]
near-term type improvement.
[4:16:23]
I mean, ultimately, we would
move into to storm water pump
[4:16:25]
stations to help with
our flooding issues,
[4:16:27]
but that's drastically
more costly.
[4:16:30]
And design and
permitting required.
[4:16:32]
So I think this is a good
step as we move towards move
[4:16:35]
towards that long term plan.
[4:16:37]
Maintenance wise, if we were
to use commercial divers,
[4:16:42]
we would think this
would cost about
[4:16:43]
$200,000 a year to be able to
maintain with commercial divers.
[4:16:48]
But with that you're
still only maintaining
[4:16:50]
one side of the valve.
[4:16:52]
Post storm.
[4:16:53]
We did some cleaning
of the valves
[4:16:54]
in the pass-a-grille
neighborhood.
[4:16:57]
We witnessed that they were
covered with barnacles.
[4:16:59]
So we cleaned
those barnacles up.
[4:17:01]
And then the dive report
said, well, the valve still
[4:17:03]
wasn't completely sealing shut.
[4:17:05]
Those type of problems,
would be easily handled if we
[4:17:09]
could maintain them on land.
[4:17:13]
I think that was
my big question.
[4:17:14]
I just want to make sure
we're not looking at band-aids
[4:17:17]
for something that we're
going to end up spending
[4:17:19]
a lot of money down the road.
[4:17:20]
And what do you think the life
expectancy of this for now,
[4:17:24]
the vault structure itself would
have a long life expectancy.
[4:17:27]
I mean, that we would
expect 30 plus years.
[4:17:29]
The tide check
valves themselves.
[4:17:31]
That's something we're
going to have to evaluate
[4:17:33]
through this project.
[4:17:35]
Hopefully we'll be
able to extend the life
[4:17:37]
of these tide check valves.
[4:17:40]
Being that we are going to be
able to maintain them better
[4:17:42]
than we have in the past.
[4:17:44]
But that's something that we're
going to have to evaluate as we
[4:17:47]
maintain is exactly how often
are we going to have to replace
[4:17:50]
these rubber tide check valves.
[4:17:53]
I think in five years, 10
years, I'm hoping 5 to 10 years.
[4:17:56]
Yeah and the cost
on that is they
[4:17:59]
range from about
depending on diameter.
[4:18:01]
There are about $10,000
to $20,000 a piece.
[4:18:05]
The maintenance for a
new to replace the valve,
[4:18:11]
just making sure it's another.
[4:18:14]
We have also discussed this
with the city of ST Petersburg
[4:18:18]
and discussing some
of the challenges
[4:18:20]
they have in the maintenance
of tide check valves.
[4:18:22]
And they also reiterated
to us that, having them
[4:18:25]
in these maintenance valve
structures closer to the road is
[4:18:28]
gives you the best ability
to have a functioning.
[4:18:30]
It makes sense.
[4:18:31]
Again, I just want
to make sure we're
[4:18:33]
spending the money wisely
and getting what we need
[4:18:37]
to get out of it for everybody.
[4:18:40]
Thank you.
[4:18:41]
Thank you, Commissioner Causey.
[4:18:43]
Yeah, I am still unclear
on the maintenance schedule
[4:18:47]
that you believe will keep
the barnacles from being
[4:18:52]
a problem on the redesign
that the modification
[4:18:57]
you're talking about.
[4:18:59]
That's going to be
something that we're
[4:19:01]
going to have to
adjust as we see
[4:19:04]
these conditions initially we're
going to try to start quarterly.
[4:19:08]
That's going to be our goal.
[4:19:09]
But if we need to if that
has to move to twice a year,
[4:19:12]
we'll do that.
[4:19:12]
If that has to move to
monthly, we'll outline that.
[4:19:15]
But our maintenance plan
right now is in the past
[4:19:19]
has been non-existent.
[4:19:20]
So this is something
we're developing
[4:19:21]
and we're going to have to
evaluate and adjust as needed.
[4:19:27]
So are we still going
to need the divers
[4:19:29]
to come out and clean
the outsides of them
[4:19:31]
at the outfalls?
[4:19:33]
We would we're looking at
purchasing a John boat so we can
[4:19:36]
help perform some of that
outfall maintenance in-house
[4:19:39]
rather than using divers.
[4:19:42]
But yeah, outfall ends
of pipes may still need
[4:19:44]
to be maintained with divers.
[4:19:45]
That's where we could use
it without a check valve.
[4:19:47]
I'm sorry.
[4:19:48]
Just with or without
a check valve.
[4:19:49]
Yes yeah.
[4:19:51]
OK I'm sorry.
[4:19:53]
Yeah I mean, that's the problem
with the original installation
[4:19:57]
is you literally
couldn't maintain
[4:19:59]
it because of the bad design.
[4:20:00]
So we just don't want to
have another bad design.
[4:20:05]
So we have the
engineering company
[4:20:07]
is going to do this install, but
they are also vetting what we
[4:20:12]
have as the proposed design or.
[4:20:15]
Yes yeah, we did have an
engineering consultant that
[4:20:18]
engineered this
design and signed
[4:20:20]
and sealed these plans with
their professional engineering
[4:20:23]
license.
[4:20:26]
So are we still spending the
$200,000 a year for the diving
[4:20:31]
divers for maintenance.
[4:20:32]
That's to be
determined right now.
[4:20:34]
That contract is
currently out for bid.
[4:20:37]
So we'll see what those
prices come back at.
[4:20:39]
But yes, but the answer
is yes thereabouts.
[4:20:42]
Our plan would be to keep
diving, keep cleaning
[4:20:46]
these outfalls as well as
the vac trucks that you see,
[4:20:50]
driving the street is
continual maintenance.
[4:20:52]
I'm all for the maintenance.
[4:20:53]
Trust me.
[4:20:54]
I'm all for the
maintenance on that.
[4:20:56]
Yeah sorry.
[4:20:57]
Let me just finish.
[4:20:59]
Thank you.
[4:20:59]
Yeah, yeah.
[4:21:00]
So I am definitely all
for spending the money.
[4:21:04]
I think that this can
be part of a solution
[4:21:08]
that we're going
to need for more
[4:21:10]
funding, like for our other
infrastructure things.
[4:21:14]
So whatever we
need to spend, I'm
[4:21:17]
committed to not
having salt water
[4:21:19]
on the city streets,
but not just salt water.
[4:21:22]
I think that there
shouldn't be a foot
[4:21:24]
of Rainwater that's
sitting on our streets
[4:21:26]
waiting for low tide.
[4:21:29]
So I just think that is
something, as a city,
[4:21:32]
I would like to see us adopt
and have that as a standard,
[4:21:36]
that we're not going to
have giant pools of water
[4:21:39]
sitting on the streets.
[4:21:40]
And as I've gone around for four
months now and talked to people,
[4:21:44]
this is one of the biggest
frustrations throughout all
[4:21:47]
of district 3 is the bad grading
or else dirty storm drains
[4:21:54]
or that have barnacles
in them because they've
[4:21:57]
been under the sea level.
[4:22:01]
And also not having maintenance
on the outfall valve.
[4:22:05]
So we're going to
do a redesign now
[4:22:08]
and we're going to do work
on this outfall valve.
[4:22:11]
I just think it's important
to undersell this idea
[4:22:14]
to the people that
we're trying to help,
[4:22:17]
that you're still going
to have a lot of water
[4:22:20]
on a thunderstorm,
which we have every day.
[4:22:23]
If it's high tide, because this
doesn't solve rain problems.
[4:22:28]
That's correct.
[4:22:28]
Yeah understood.
[4:22:29]
So I just want that to be clear.
[4:22:32]
Yes, sir.
[4:22:35]
Any questions.
[4:22:36]
OK I had one more thing.
[4:22:39]
Wasn't 625,000 of this covered
via grant that was a different
[4:22:45]
that grant was for a different
project that was specifically
[4:22:48]
for the three locations in
the Don Cesar that don't have
[4:22:51]
the elevated seawalls.
[4:22:53]
It was for those
locations as well.
[4:22:55]
It's those.
[4:22:56]
And those are we looking at
doing anything with those others
[4:23:01]
on this program as well.
[4:23:03]
Those are in the program as well
as part of this design, that one
[4:23:06]
we're getting ready to put out
to bid to see what construction
[4:23:09]
numbers come back with.
[4:23:10]
And then we'll
present that to you.
[4:23:12]
Thank you.
[4:23:14]
Just one more question
for you, please.
[4:23:17]
You mentioned needing
divers for the maintenance.
[4:23:19]
I assume that's
when we have a check
[4:23:21]
valve in place on those pipes.
[4:23:23]
We'll need divers
for maintenance.
[4:23:24]
Or if there's not a check
valve, do we still need divers
[4:23:27]
for the maintenance if it's.
[4:23:29]
They'd be where we
have check valves.
[4:23:31]
So in the city I think
throughout we have about
[4:23:33]
40 different check valves.
[4:23:34]
So we do have several locations
where this new design won't be
[4:23:38]
implemented, that we would still
be dependent on our old means
[4:23:41]
of maintaining, and we
still have some that
[4:23:43]
don't have check valves at all.
[4:23:45]
And theoretically they
don't need a diver.
[4:23:47]
They just need those you
can clean from the street.
[4:23:50]
From the street.
[4:23:50]
Yeah coincidentally
just witnessed
[4:23:52]
it at my house the other day.
[4:23:53]
So thank you.
[4:23:54]
All right.
[4:23:54]
Very good.
[4:23:55]
Thank you.
[4:23:55]
Yep.
[4:23:57]
OK.
[4:24:02]
Do we have a motion.
[4:24:05]
I'll make a motion to authorize
the city manager to execute
[4:24:08]
a service agreement with BCS
construction group for the Boca
[4:24:11]
ciega stormwater
outfall improvements
[4:24:14]
capital project
in the amount not
[4:24:16]
to exceed $1,173,370 I second.
[4:24:24]
Mayor Tate.
[4:24:25]
Yes vice mayor.
[4:24:26]
Marriott yes.
[4:24:28]
Commissioner Robinson.
[4:24:29]
Yes, Commissioner.
[4:24:30]
Yes commissioner.
[4:24:31]
Maldonado yes.
[4:24:33]
The motion carries.
[4:24:40]
OK thank you.
[4:24:41]
I think the next is our action
item on the resolution 2020 607
[4:24:47]
for establishing and
amending public parking
[4:24:48]
fees, a resolution of the city
commission of the city of ST
[4:24:51]
Pete Beach to establish a
parking rate fee schedule
[4:24:54]
and providing for
an effective date.
[4:24:57]
Good evening, Mayor
and commissioners.
[4:24:59]
Adam Boyer, assistant
city manager.
[4:25:01]
This is a project we've been
working on for a long time.
[4:25:03]
We have some new members
on the commission,
[4:25:05]
so I just wanted to back up just
a little bit, just to give you
[4:25:08]
a little bit of history of where
we're at and why we got here
[4:25:11]
and how we got here.
[4:25:13]
About 2025, we did a
parking action plan
[4:25:16]
with a third party vendor
that came in and evaluated
[4:25:18]
our parking system.
[4:25:21]
Part of that was
several recommendations,
[4:25:23]
some of them tied
to fee enhancements
[4:25:25]
as far as parking
fees and fines.
[4:25:28]
So what we did was
we put together,
[4:25:31]
with a lack of a better word,
an A Old Orchard list of fee
[4:25:34]
enhancements that were you may
be able to gain some revenue,
[4:25:38]
you may be able
to help turnover.
[4:25:40]
And we presented that to the
finance and budget review
[4:25:43]
board at one of their
meetings that resulted
[4:25:46]
in a list of recommendations to
bring to you all, which we did
[4:25:51]
bring those to the previous
commission at the last meeting,
[4:25:54]
I believe.
[4:25:56]
So the resolution that
you have in front of you
[4:25:58]
is a result of
those two meetings
[4:26:01]
and what we were asked to
bring back to the commission
[4:26:04]
for your consideration tonight.
[4:26:06]
I've heard some questions,
in the community where
[4:26:09]
some of these things came from.
[4:26:10]
And a lot of them, when you look
at the list in front of you,
[4:26:13]
the sunset pricing,
a lot of those
[4:26:15]
were recommendations that
were made by the parking
[4:26:17]
action plan for us to explore.
[4:26:19]
So that's why we as a staff went
through and ran some numbers
[4:26:22]
and just wanted to
provide you with as
[4:26:24]
much information as possible
to make your decision base.
[4:26:29]
I will tell you that some of
the technology that we have,
[4:26:32]
the data is not
fantastic in some cases.
[4:26:35]
So some of them are estimates.
[4:26:36]
So a lot of them are estimates.
[4:26:38]
In fact.
[4:26:38]
So like I explained to
the previous commission,
[4:26:40]
the dollar amounts that we have
there are not exact figures
[4:26:43]
that you're going to capture.
[4:26:45]
We certainly had some data
limitations in that aspect.
[4:26:48]
So I just want to flip
through each one just
[4:26:51]
quickly just a
reminder for those
[4:26:53]
that were on commission and just
an update for our new members.
[4:26:57]
The sunset pricing, what that
does is increase the hourly
[4:27:01]
rate by $1 after 4:00.
[4:27:04]
And you see the estimated impact
on that seasonal pricing is
[4:27:08]
raising it by $1 for
what we would say
[4:27:10]
are in-season, where we're
about 34% of our parking revenue
[4:27:13]
comes from.
[4:27:14]
And that's February
1 through April 30.
[4:27:21]
The currently right
now our parking rates
[4:27:24]
are not consistent
across the whole beach.
[4:27:26]
The County parking lot
has as a different rate.
[4:27:28]
So that third option
is to basically
[4:27:31]
standardize our city
rate throughout all
[4:27:34]
the parking facilities.
[4:27:36]
The next one is just a
general increase of $0.50 per
[4:27:39]
hour at all of our facilities.
[4:27:42]
Currently, weekends are
considered Saturday and Sunday.
[4:27:46]
Your next option
increases the weekend
[4:27:48]
by adding Friday
as a weekend day,
[4:27:50]
and not just
Saturday and Sunday.
[4:27:52]
And then the last
option that you
[4:27:54]
see on there is increasing
the right now we have
[4:27:56]
a flat holiday rate of $25.
[4:27:59]
This would raise it to 40.
[4:28:01]
This is one we made a
little bit of change
[4:28:02]
with staff, because
there was some discussion
[4:28:04]
with the old commission,
the previous commission,
[4:28:08]
regarding the
holiday rates, and we
[4:28:12]
didn't feel comfortable
that we had the data
[4:28:14]
to present that back to you.
[4:28:15]
So what our recommendation
is staff would be,
[4:28:18]
is to adopt this.
[4:28:19]
We put the language in there
on a case by case basis.
[4:28:22]
We would like to keep the hourly
rate through the three upcoming
[4:28:25]
holidays, which
would be Memorial,
[4:28:27]
4th of July and Labor Day, to
be able to provide you data.
[4:28:31]
What it looks like if we did the
flat rate in 2025 versus just
[4:28:35]
keeping the hourly rate in
2026 and not charging a holiday
[4:28:40]
rate during those
time periods, we
[4:28:41]
felt like that would be
really the only fair way
[4:28:43]
to show you the data on what
that would look like if we
[4:28:48]
didn't use a holiday rate.
[4:28:50]
The other thing that was brought
up at the previous commission
[4:28:52]
was a special event rate.
[4:28:54]
So we did change the
terminology in there
[4:28:57]
and say holiday
special event rate.
[4:28:59]
We put a range in there and
said case by case basis.
[4:29:03]
And that just gives
you all the flexibility
[4:29:04]
that if you decide there's
a large scale special event
[4:29:07]
that you want to change
your pay structure for,
[4:29:11]
we can do it more
readily to meet whatever
[4:29:13]
you all would like us to do.
[4:29:15]
And again, that not just tied
to obviously not just tied
[4:29:18]
to revenue enhancement,
that's also
[4:29:20]
tied to controlling our
parking out here, controlling
[4:29:22]
traffic, things of that nature.
[4:29:24]
So, a lot of components, not
just revenue enhancement.
[4:29:28]
So the two items that we did
discuss at the last meeting that
[4:29:32]
were not recommended by
finance and budget review,
[4:29:34]
and we didn't feel
we had consensus
[4:29:36]
from the previous
commission on that.
[4:29:38]
You don't see on your option
list is a transaction fees.
[4:29:42]
So that would be basically
we don't have a cash option
[4:29:46]
anymore, so that
every time a customer
[4:29:48]
uses a credit card, which is
every time they pay for parking,
[4:29:52]
there is a transaction fee
that right now the city pays.
[4:29:55]
It's different because we
have two different vendors.
[4:29:58]
Now we have park mobile
and we have flowbird.
[4:30:00]
So those are two different
transaction fees.
[4:30:02]
So that's not included in
the resolution before you.
[4:30:05]
And then the other was reducing
or not raising the current rates
[4:30:10]
for the time period from 8:00 AM
to 12 o'clock o'clock noon that
[4:30:15]
we did not include in the
resolution either, because we
[4:30:17]
didn't feel we had consensus.
[4:30:18]
So that's basically what
you have before you.
[4:30:22]
I will say that
we pulled parking
[4:30:26]
out of the fee ordinance.
[4:30:28]
So now it's adopted
through resolution.
[4:30:30]
So we would need some
type of action tonight.
[4:30:32]
Obviously it's to
your all's discretion.
[4:30:35]
And after the public comment
how you want to proceed.
[4:30:38]
If you want to keep
all these if you
[4:30:39]
want to eliminate some if you
want to just keep it the way
[4:30:41]
it is.
[4:30:42]
So we would need
some type of action
[4:30:44]
from the commission
tonight on that.
[4:30:46]
But with that, I'm happy
to answer any questions.
[4:30:48]
And like I said, I know
we have new members,
[4:30:50]
so I'm happy to answer any
questions that you might have.
[4:30:53]
Thank you.
[4:30:53]
Any questions from the
other commissioners.
[4:30:59]
A question I think
I zoned out on that.
[4:31:02]
Sorry, I spoke fast.
[4:31:05]
So we don't have the credit card
fee in here that is not included
[4:31:10]
in the current resolution.
[4:31:12]
Because I'm just
going by numbers
[4:31:14]
that I saw from last time.
[4:31:16]
I guess the increase is
that just that's the OK
[4:31:22]
the delta between the two.
[4:31:23]
OK sorry.
[4:31:24]
I just wanted to make
sure I understood
[4:31:26]
that it didn't
include that because I
[4:31:28]
was fine with including that.
[4:31:29]
Because when I go out to
dinner and everywhere else
[4:31:31]
I seem to go these
days, I get charged back
[4:31:34]
a credit card fee regardless.
[4:31:36]
And then again, I could ask
for a tip everywhere too.
[4:31:39]
So sure.
[4:31:40]
And again, switching
this to resolution,
[4:31:43]
does provide a little bit
more flexibility for you all.
[4:31:46]
Again, we can adjust up or down
with just a simple meeting.
[4:31:51]
So it does provide some
flexibility if you want
[4:31:53]
to look at something different.
[4:31:54]
Can we extend the time so
that we can continue the.
[4:31:57]
Sorry yeah.
[4:31:58]
I'll make a motion to
extend the meeting to 11.
[4:32:00]
I second a quick break
for the restroom.
[4:32:05]
We take a quick restroom break.
[4:32:07]
For those of us that
have been on the dais.
[4:32:09]
What's that.
[4:32:09]
We need a vote.
[4:32:10]
We need to vote on
the motion first.
[4:32:11]
To vote on the current.
[4:32:12]
Fair enough.
[4:32:12]
Yep post.
[4:32:14]
Post, vote on the
motion, please.
[4:32:16]
Clerk which one.
[4:32:17]
The bathroom first or the other.
[4:32:19]
Motion to extend to 11.
[4:32:20]
Motion to extend to 11.
[4:32:21]
We'll call it a fire.
[4:32:22]
Marriott yes, Commissioner.
[4:32:23]
Robinson yes, Commissioner.
[4:32:25]
Yes, Commissioner.
[4:32:26]
Maldonado yes, Mayor.
[4:32:27]
Tate yes.
[4:32:31]
And now I agree to
recess the meeting.
[4:32:33]
We'll recess for five minutes.
[4:32:35]
Five minutes.
[4:32:35]
OK five minutes.
[4:32:36]
We'll be right back.
[4:32:41]
Sitting too long.
[4:32:43]
No yeah, exactly.
[4:32:48]
I'm voting for talk to John.
[4:32:50]
We'll see how he
always dresses up.
[4:32:51]
I don't know.
[4:32:54]
I don't want to move.
[4:32:55]
I don't know if we can get
the jacket off him or not.
[4:32:57]
Oh, man.
[4:32:58]
Legs got my sea legs.
[4:33:02]
A whole lot of reasons why it's
good to live in my district.
[4:33:04]
But the best ones
that I'm used to.
[4:33:06]
The snacks.
[4:33:07]
Oh, yeah.
[4:33:09]
So we just heard the
presentation on the proposed
[4:38:06]
parking rate changes.
[4:38:07]
Thank you, Adam, for doing so.
[4:38:08]
Yes, sir.
[4:38:09]
I think we got a
few questions in.
[4:38:10]
Or are there other
questions to have.
[4:38:13]
I'm looking at
other commissioners
[4:38:14]
and OK, I have a few
personal comments,
[4:38:17]
and this is something that
I've already at least made
[4:38:21]
my thoughts known to Francis.
[4:38:23]
So my concern, I just
campaigned on about six months
[4:38:28]
of walking around and basically
saying that we want to welcome
[4:38:31]
visitors to our island.
[4:38:32]
I'm most particularly
interested in the impacts
[4:38:35]
to our small businesses, our
restaurants, our entertainments,
[4:38:39]
our shopping areas.
[4:38:41]
And so what intrigues me
is as an alternate to this.
[4:38:43]
And I'm not saying we can't go
forward with pieces of this,
[4:38:45]
but what I'm intrigued by
more so is a duration based
[4:38:50]
dynamic parking
structure, which says,
[4:38:53]
I imagine if you're
coming to visit our city
[4:38:56]
and you want to come
have dinner and you maybe
[4:38:58]
want to do a little shopping,
an hour or two feels
[4:39:00]
like a reasonable amount of
time to do that kind turn
[4:39:03]
that spot over
within an hour or two
[4:39:05]
and come in and do some
shopping and do a nice one
[4:39:08]
of our nice restaurants.
[4:39:10]
I think when you start getting
into 3, 4, 5 hour durations,
[4:39:13]
you're getting into the people
that are just hanging out
[4:39:15]
on the beach and doing some
other things that maybe tie up
[4:39:18]
those parking spaces that
are so valuable to us
[4:39:21]
and that are our restaurants
and business owners want
[4:39:24]
us to turn over more quickly.
[4:39:26]
And so as I look
at this, I'm more.
[4:39:29]
And I want to ask
staff at some point
[4:39:32]
how we can investigate
a dynamic pricing based
[4:39:36]
on, again, what I'll
call duration of time
[4:39:38]
that they're staying there.
[4:39:39]
I would like to see us turn
those spots over, because they
[4:39:43]
were coming and shopping and
eating in our restaurants
[4:39:46]
and being fair to those folks
that want to come do that
[4:39:49]
and patronize our businesses
is something I don't want
[4:39:52]
to punish, for example, with
just sunset pricing, which to me
[4:39:54]
says dinner time of thing.
[4:39:57]
So for me, I'm intrigued
by some of these are great.
[4:40:02]
I think some of these I
would love to revisit.
[4:40:04]
But I think part of what I need
to understand from the city
[4:40:07]
is what our
capabilities are to do.
[4:40:11]
Dynamic based pricing again
based on duration of stay.
[4:40:15]
If I'm staying for
an hour or two,
[4:40:18]
reasonable rate
gets more expensive
[4:40:20]
as you plan to stay longer
and tie up that spot that US
[4:40:23]
and our business
owners would rather
[4:40:24]
you turn over and let
somebody else come in
[4:40:26]
and have dinner as well.
[4:40:27]
So your thoughts
on that, please.
[4:40:29]
Yes, sir.
[4:40:30]
Our city manager
preps us very well.
[4:40:31]
So I knew that.
[4:40:32]
I knew that question was coming.
[4:40:33]
So we did some work on
that today actually.
[4:40:36]
So just a little bit
of background right
[4:40:39]
now like I mentioned,
we have two vendors,
[4:40:41]
park mobile and flowbird.
[4:40:43]
Both of them have an app based
on flowbird, the pedestal.
[4:40:46]
Basically a company
bought both of those
[4:40:49]
and is basically
incorporating those right now.
[4:40:51]
Park mobile is, I would say
the more advanced of the two.
[4:40:55]
The data we get is much better.
[4:40:56]
And the ability to utilize
that form is much better.
[4:41:02]
So we reached out, staff
reached out to them.
[4:41:05]
Today they can do that.
[4:41:07]
What you're asking can be
done as far as they can do it.
[4:41:10]
Obviously they can
do it based on time
[4:41:12]
because that's in part of
our presentation, obviously.
[4:41:14]
But they can also do
it based on duration
[4:41:17]
of the parking experience.
[4:41:19]
So if you chose to
do something where
[4:41:22]
the first two hours
were one price and it
[4:41:24]
escalated for hours 3, 4 and 5.
[4:41:27]
That is something that
the platform can do.
[4:41:29]
They confirmed to us today,
as far as us presenting you
[4:41:32]
with data of what that would
look like in comparison
[4:41:36]
to what we currently have.
[4:41:38]
I believe we can bring
something back to you.
[4:41:40]
It's going to take a
little bit of time,
[4:41:41]
I would say maybe 30 or
60 days just to be safe,
[4:41:45]
but I would just
caution that the data
[4:41:48]
points are not fantastic.
[4:41:50]
And I'll just give
you one example.
[4:41:52]
We used to the holidays are
actually a perfect example.
[4:41:56]
We know how many transactions
occurred on a holiday.
[4:41:58]
We don't know how long
they stayed on a holiday.
[4:42:00]
So we would have to take some
assumptions when we bring back
[4:42:04]
data to you to show you what
your revenues would look like
[4:42:07]
or what your revenue
losses would look like.
[4:42:10]
But certainly what
you're asking to do
[4:42:12]
is able to be done on the
platform that we utilize.
[4:42:15]
And then I've used
these apps before.
[4:42:18]
I go lunch or whatever
it is, and then I choose
[4:42:21]
to want to extend longer.
[4:42:23]
Even though I extend
for another hour or two,
[4:42:25]
theoretically, then I
extend at the higher
[4:42:26]
rate rather than right.
[4:42:28]
I believe over a new situation.
[4:42:31]
I want to be able to obviously
we don't want them just
[4:42:33]
saying, all right, two hours.
[4:42:34]
Then they finish it up and they
go, I need another two hours
[4:42:36]
and they get the
lower rate every time.
[4:42:37]
Obviously if you're extending
into or starting over,
[4:42:41]
we'd want to know that you're
still in that same zone.
[4:42:43]
I believe it's based on zone.
[4:42:44]
I suspect they figured
that could occur.
[4:42:47]
So I believe it's
probably based on zone.
[4:42:49]
So obviously if you move
to a different parking
[4:42:51]
area in the city, it
would probably start over.
[4:42:54]
But if you're just
moving to the next spot
[4:42:55]
or just letting it expire
and then re-upping it,
[4:42:59]
my assumption would
be and we'll get it,
[4:43:00]
we'll get a definite
answer on that for you.
[4:43:02]
My assumption it would
extend at the higher rate.
[4:43:05]
So that's just for the
rest of the commissioners.
[4:43:09]
That's what I'm most
worried about is harming
[4:43:10]
our small businesses with
something that discourages
[4:43:14]
people from coming in, having
great lunches and dinners
[4:43:18]
and watching a movie
and things like that.
[4:43:20]
So, so I see some
of this as I see it,
[4:43:23]
County park special rate
wouldn't quite impact
[4:43:25]
that as I'm thinking about it.
[4:43:27]
So I think there's
some of these that I
[4:43:28]
would support today
and others that I
[4:43:30]
would defer or ask to defer.
[4:43:34]
But I don't procedurally,
on my very first day
[4:43:37]
how to go about getting
somebody to help
[4:43:40]
me with what I'd like to do.
[4:43:42]
I think what concerns me most
is I look at the slide in front
[4:43:45]
of me is sunset pricing.
[4:43:49]
And I think that is what to
me feels like we're basically
[4:43:53]
saying at sunset, we're going to
charge you more, which is to me,
[4:43:56]
thinking about our
small businesses.
[4:43:58]
We're going to charge more to
come have a nice dinner with us.
[4:44:00]
And I'd rather not do that as
our first line of approach.
[4:44:04]
And on that, I'll say it's a
relatively small amount on here,
[4:44:08]
and it's about 20%
of your parking
[4:44:10]
is done during that
time frame just
[4:44:12]
to help you on your
decision making,
[4:44:15]
Ralph would have to give you
exactly what you'd have to do.
[4:44:17]
But my understanding is if you
make a motion with some changes
[4:44:20]
to the resolution, that's how
you would either eliminate
[4:44:23]
or add parts of the parking.
[4:44:26]
And then theoretically, we
could revisit an alternate,
[4:44:29]
maybe duration based dynamic
piece as a future resolution.
[4:44:34]
Certainly we could bring the
data back to what we talked
[4:44:37]
about today as the staff is
presenting you an option where
[4:44:40]
maybe it's the current rate for
two hours and then it escalates
[4:44:44]
by maybe give you some
examples $0.50, $1,
[4:44:47]
$1.50 for those hours after.
[4:44:49]
It's the goal we're shooting
for to bring back to you
[4:44:51]
at some point.
[4:44:52]
Perfect OK.
[4:44:53]
We just make a motion
about and this time,
[4:44:56]
let's expressly state our
motion exactly which one
[4:45:00]
of these you want to include.
[4:45:03]
Or can I say as
is excluding one.
[4:45:05]
You can do it that way too.
[4:45:06]
All right.
[4:45:08]
I don't know if I should
be making this motion.
[4:45:09]
I'm happy to make it.
[4:45:10]
You're allowed to make.
[4:45:11]
I think there might
be other people
[4:45:12]
that want to say something.
[4:45:13]
Oh, sorry.
[4:45:13]
I'm sorry I didn't see you
making a comment, I apologize.
[4:45:16]
That's OK.
[4:45:16]
I was just going to agree
with what you're saying.
[4:45:18]
I think it's great.
[4:45:20]
And I think the motion could be
to include the duration factor.
[4:45:30]
I'm not sure that we don't.
[4:45:31]
I don't think we
know enough about it.
[4:45:33]
We don't know enough for
you to give me any direction
[4:45:36]
because we actually need rates.
[4:45:39]
The good thing
about resolution is
[4:45:40]
it just takes one
reading as opposed
[4:45:42]
to an ordinance which takes two.
[4:45:43]
So you could change these every.
[4:45:44]
We're suggesting we
bring you back data.
[4:45:47]
Yeah OK.
[4:45:47]
And then we could give you
a suggested resolution.
[4:45:50]
Yeah to be clear, what
I'm saying is I'm.
[4:45:52]
I'm suggesting.
[4:45:55]
Approving this minus in my
least from my perspective,
[4:45:59]
sunset pricing.
[4:46:00]
And then we would ask city
staff to come back to us
[4:46:03]
30 days, if that's
what's appropriate,
[4:46:06]
and give us an assessment
of what duration based.
[4:46:11]
Parking rates would
be in this situation
[4:46:14]
and some or all of this may be
up for discussion in 30 days.
[4:46:19]
But at least get the
initial data back to us.
[4:46:21]
We understand it.
[4:46:23]
And then we make a
decision from there.
[4:46:25]
That's just my perspective.
[4:46:28]
I like it.
[4:46:29]
I'm sorry, MS Robinson.
[4:46:30]
Commissioner Robinson, sorry,
we weren't talking about Corey
[4:46:33]
having paid parking.
[4:46:34]
Corey no, no changes to FYI,
we're not talking no changes
[4:46:38]
to most of the restaurants are.
[4:46:40]
Yeah so when we talk about
the restaurants we're talking
[4:46:43]
or paid parking, we're
talking the beach,
[4:46:46]
primarily the beaches.
[4:46:47]
So that's a long that's a long
walk to some of the restaurants.
[4:46:52]
Just saying.
[4:46:53]
For that, I still like
getting the feedback
[4:47:00]
if we're going to give up
the sunset parking scenario,
[4:47:03]
what was the rate on that.
[4:47:04]
Do you remember because it
raised it would raise it by $1.
[4:47:07]
So again, none of them are
dependent on each other.
[4:47:09]
So whatever rate you said,
it would be $1 extra.
[4:47:12]
No, the no.
[4:47:13]
The credit card
credit card service.
[4:47:16]
So again, because there's 2
because there's two companies.
[4:47:18]
So one of them is we had
that number in the last time.
[4:47:22]
Yeah I said 3% The problem is
the more we dive into the data.
[4:47:26]
So one of them is
$0.15 per transaction
[4:47:30]
plus 3% The other one didn't
look like it charged a credit
[4:47:34]
card, but they sent it to a
bank, which does charge us
[4:47:36]
and it's anywhere from 4%
to 5% So it's not the same.
[4:47:39]
It's not the same
depending on what app.
[4:47:41]
But did didn't you say the
same company bought both.
[4:47:45]
They did, but they we're told.
[4:47:48]
So we talked to
them again today.
[4:47:51]
Our understanding
is it should be
[4:47:53]
operating as potentially
operating as one platform
[4:47:56]
as early as March.
[4:47:57]
But we don't know
that for a fact.
[4:47:58]
So right now it's
still kind of operating
[4:48:00]
as two separate entities.
[4:48:02]
So that's why there's some
differences between the two.
[4:48:04]
There's differences
when we try to pull data
[4:48:06]
there's differences and rates.
[4:48:08]
Like, for example, whatever,
you all approve tonight,
[4:48:11]
we'll have to go to
both of those companies
[4:48:13]
to implement them.
[4:48:14]
And based on my experience
of doing this two years ago,
[4:48:18]
no one did it immediately.
[4:48:19]
The other one took quite a long
time before it implemented it.
[4:48:21]
So conceivably if
you used one app,
[4:48:23]
you'd be paying less than
if you used the other.
[4:48:25]
So we're hoping all that will
get worked out once they're
[4:48:28]
serving under one brand in one
app, works in certain areas
[4:48:32]
and other one works in both of
them work in all of our areas.
[4:48:35]
We're working.
[4:48:35]
Oh, I did not realize that one.
[4:48:37]
And that's pretty standard.
[4:48:38]
If you go to the
beach communities,
[4:48:39]
you'll see both of those
vendors on those signs.
[4:48:42]
So it's pretty common.
[4:48:45]
OK I'll make a motion.
[4:48:50]
No I have a public comment.
[4:48:51]
Sorry public comment.
[4:48:52]
Yeah sorry.
[4:48:53]
Jumping ahead Rick Falkenstein.
[4:48:59]
Good evening.
[4:49:00]
Sorry to prolong this meeting.
[4:49:02]
6507 31 Avenue North.
[4:49:05]
Most of my waking
hours is 800 golf way.
[4:49:10]
I see the influx of
cars coming and going.
[4:49:15]
They get there about 9 o'clock.
[4:49:17]
Then there's a turnover
of about 1112, 1:00.
[4:49:23]
The spaces do turn over.
[4:49:26]
My suggestion to you guys
take the commission hat off.
[4:49:31]
Put the business hat on.
[4:49:33]
Make it 24 hours.
[4:49:36]
Charge the meters 24 hours.
[4:49:38]
Sunset beaches.
[4:49:39]
Got that.
[4:49:39]
24 hours.
[4:49:40]
Madeira Beach, o'clock
AM to o'clock PM.
[4:49:44]
Indian Rocks, 8:00
AM to 10:00 PM.
[4:49:47]
Redington beach,
7:00 AM to 10:00 PM.
[4:49:50]
Make hours 24 hours.
[4:49:51]
Raise it $1.
[4:49:52]
Why make it so complicated.
[4:49:54]
When you look at this
lineup, you're going
[4:49:57]
to go, what am I going to pay.
[4:49:59]
When does it start.
[4:50:00]
When does it stop.
[4:50:02]
Raise it.
[4:50:04]
It's going to be easier for
people coming to our beach.
[4:50:07]
Remember, right now, March.
[4:50:09]
This March is the hottest
March we've had in a long time.
[4:50:14]
Go back to February.
[4:50:15]
Look at those meter takes.
[4:50:17]
The coldest.
[4:50:18]
The coldest month in 20 years.
[4:50:21]
We don't want to
alienate the ones
[4:50:24]
who come visit us in August.
[4:50:27]
September, October, November.
[4:50:30]
The people who are
here now are gone.
[4:50:33]
But they don't mind
paying the extra dollar
[4:50:36]
because they don't realize when
they come off golf Boulevard,
[4:50:40]
it's city streets.
[4:50:41]
When you go past,
the dances are it's
[4:50:43]
city streets, the trash that's
being picked up on the beach.
[4:50:48]
That money goes
towards that trash,
[4:50:50]
the security on the beach.
[4:50:51]
We have to educate.
[4:50:52]
We have to do a PR session.
[4:50:54]
So these guys back here know
where the money is going.
[4:50:57]
It's not just
going into the city
[4:50:59]
and they're going to go
spend it everywhere else,
[4:51:02]
it's going to rebuild the
streets that the city owns.
[4:51:05]
Gulf Boulevard is
a State Street.
[4:51:08]
It's not a residential street.
[4:51:11]
So we have to let
the people know.
[4:51:13]
And some of the guests
that come to where I work,
[4:51:17]
I asked them the last couple
of days, what do you think.
[4:51:21]
It's all over the place, man.
[4:51:22]
It's all over the place.
[4:51:24]
Raise it $1.
[4:51:25]
Go 24 hours.
[4:51:26]
They know what
they're going to pay
[4:51:28]
and they know when
they come out here,
[4:51:29]
it's 24 hours,
seven days a week.
[4:51:32]
And do your holiday gig.
[4:51:35]
That's good.
[4:51:36]
It's going to work.
[4:51:37]
I think that'll work.
[4:51:38]
They'll understand.
[4:51:39]
Holidays raise it
$1 and goes 24/7.
[4:51:45]
Thank you.
[4:51:46]
Yes, sir.
[4:51:47]
I like the KISS method.
[4:51:51]
There are no more
public comments.
[4:51:53]
OK, now I'll make a motion.
[4:51:55]
I'll make a motion that we
adopt resolution 2020 7,
[4:52:01]
establishing and amending
the public parking fees to.
[4:52:05]
And now that thing
just went away.
[4:52:06]
That was in front
of me to include
[4:52:09]
to include all of the
staff recommendations
[4:52:12]
except for the sunset pricing.
[4:52:15]
Is that clear enough, Ralph.
[4:52:16]
Yes OK.
[4:52:19]
Second just a second.
[4:52:22]
Just a capital problem.
[4:52:33]
Commissioner Robinson.
[4:52:34]
No commissioner.
[4:52:37]
Coursey yes, Commissioner.
[4:52:39]
Maldonado yes, Mayor.
[4:52:41]
Tate yes.
[4:52:42]
Vice mayor.
[4:52:43]
Marriott yes.
[4:52:44]
The motion carries.
[4:52:55]
I think that's the end
of our action items.
[4:52:57]
Keep me honest
here, Renee, please.
[4:52:59]
Yes now we're on to
items for discussion.
[4:53:01]
Thank you.
[4:53:02]
And I think we've
moved an item there.
[4:53:05]
I don't know if we can
cover it in 10 minutes,
[4:53:07]
but I think we'd move the
wireless discussion there.
[4:53:10]
We'll give it a shot.
[4:53:11]
So ordinance 202603
communications and small
[4:53:16]
wireless facilities
design standards.
[4:53:19]
As you saw, there's
lots of interest.
[4:53:20]
And certainly we've all
received lots of emails
[4:53:25]
from constituents.
[4:53:27]
And I will tell you that
my position is very clear
[4:53:31]
and has been from
the very beginning
[4:53:32]
that I did intend to use the
word mandatory versus encourage.
[4:53:38]
That should be
absolutely clear to me.
[4:53:41]
It may have been
misinterpreted by some
[4:53:42]
of my fellow commissioners.
[4:53:44]
We're beyond that.
[4:53:45]
So as a result of that, I did
seek legal counsel and opinions
[4:53:52]
from Becky Blass, the senior
partner at the law firm
[4:53:57]
who provided me with
an expert legal opinion
[4:54:01]
and that opinion you
all should have seen.
[4:54:05]
And that opinion
really just gave
[4:54:07]
me the ability to
confirm that this
[4:54:10]
was not a scrivener's error.
[4:54:12]
It's not a scrivener's
error because you
[4:54:14]
can't interpret intent.
[4:54:15]
I know some people wanted me to
spray a pixel dust or something
[4:54:20]
and explain what's
not on the paper,
[4:54:22]
so that's why it was important
to clarify what's on there.
[4:54:25]
So my belief, and
Ralph will have
[4:54:29]
to guide us through this here,
is that we have two options.
[4:54:32]
So we can as a commission,
as a current commission,
[4:54:37]
repeal the ordinance
that was recently passed
[4:54:43]
and start the process over.
[4:54:46]
Or we can leave it as it stands.
[4:54:49]
But this is something for
this commission to decide
[4:54:51]
how they want to move forward.
[4:54:52]
And that's where we are.
[4:54:56]
So not an easy thing
that we wanted to get to.
[4:54:58]
It's a year and a half of work,
but this is the current reality
[4:55:01]
of what I believe is true.
[4:55:03]
Ralph, do you agree that
that's the only two things
[4:55:05]
that we can do at this point.
[4:55:07]
Well, you can repeal or you can
amend or you can leave it as is.
[4:55:10]
So you could conceivably amend
what you've already adopted.
[4:55:18]
But that would mean
mandatory is probably
[4:55:20]
going to be run up against
the state preemption
[4:55:24]
and expose the city to
liability for attorneys' fees.
[4:55:27]
What would an
Amendment look like.
[4:55:30]
Well, that would have
to come from you guys.
[4:55:32]
It's a policy
matter, but would it
[4:55:34]
take the first reading,
second reading,
[4:55:36]
second reading, same thing.
[4:55:37]
That's the part that I
want to make very clear,
[4:55:40]
so that there is no
further miscommunication,
[4:55:42]
intentional or otherwise,
that it would require us
[4:55:46]
to go back to a first reading.
[4:55:49]
Correct yep.
[4:55:50]
First reading and second
reading, and also for repealing
[4:55:53]
takes two readings to
repeal an ordinance.
[4:55:58]
OK, so I guess my
question to the commission
[4:56:00]
is that something that
we want to entertain.
[4:56:04]
I have another question.
[4:56:06]
So what we did sign off on
did have to go up to the AG.
[4:56:10]
Correct yes.
[4:56:11]
And they have 30
days to respond.
[4:56:16]
Is that correct.
[4:56:17]
The ordinance does not become
effective until 30 days expires.
[4:56:22]
From the time it gets
to the attorney general
[4:56:25]
during the pendency
of that ordinance.
[4:56:29]
And today, the
legislature also enhanced
[4:56:32]
the preemptions on
local governments
[4:56:35]
for small cell wireless.
[4:56:37]
I can pass this out.
[4:56:38]
It kind of describes.
[4:56:40]
I got to lock in up there.
[4:56:43]
So it's getting
worse, not better.
[4:56:44]
In Tallahassee there's less.
[4:56:46]
Even less you could do now.
[4:56:52]
So that's Senate Bill 488.
[4:56:55]
Yeah it hasn't been signed
by the governor yet.
[4:56:59]
So maybe if the
governor signs it,
[4:57:01]
we may want to revisit
the ordinance anyway.
[4:57:04]
But not too much
in here affects us.
[4:57:06]
It does state that you can't
limit the number of small cell
[4:57:11]
wireless facilities.
[4:57:12]
You have to require
only one construction
[4:57:15]
bond for all their equipment.
[4:57:18]
You can't have a
different bond for each.
[4:57:20]
Equipment has some insurance
requirements that prohibits
[4:57:23]
landscaping requirements.
[4:57:31]
We have a 90 page
ordinance we adopted first,
[4:57:33]
and then we had
this three pager.
[4:57:35]
And because the citizens
also wanted these setbacks
[4:57:38]
and the separation distance.
[4:57:40]
And so we had a staff
had an ordinance drafted
[4:57:46]
and I didn't insert
the word encourage.
[4:57:49]
Encourage was in the draft
that has been presented
[4:57:52]
is exhibit A was already there.
[4:57:54]
It wasn't something
that was discussed,
[4:57:56]
but it was already there.
[4:57:57]
Again, you probably cannot
mandate it even though
[4:58:01]
you want to do mandatory.
[4:58:03]
It's probably a violation
of the state law preemption.
[4:58:06]
That's what spectrum has
said and what AT&T has said.
[4:58:10]
And it looks to be what the
statute says pretty clear.
[4:58:15]
I think the counsel
for the citizens
[4:58:17]
was arguing there's too many
commas in the minimum separation
[4:58:21]
distance.
[4:58:22]
And that grammatical error
knocks out the state preemption.
[4:58:27]
But I don't believe that would
be the case if a judge read it.
[4:58:30]
I think that would
just apply clear, plain
[4:58:33]
interpretation to what they
think the sentence said.
[4:58:39]
But happy to keep
working on this.
[4:58:40]
If this is something
you want to do.
[4:58:41]
The other thing we need
to do is to have a request
[4:58:45]
for qualifications to have
consultant help us implement
[4:58:49]
the 90 page ordinance,
because it is very technical
[4:58:53]
and we need outside
technical expertise
[4:58:56]
to be able to review the
applications that will be coming
[4:58:59]
in the future that require
commission approval to it'll
[4:59:05]
be coming back to you for that.
[4:59:07]
Yeah you're going to
have to hire someone
[4:59:08]
to review these things,
and we can't charge for it
[4:59:12]
under the preemption
question for you,
[4:59:15]
Ralph, please, I'm
reading I'm reading
[4:59:18]
at least the motion as was
kind of distributed earlier.
[4:59:21]
I don't see the word in
court or mandatory sitting
[4:59:23]
in here at all.
[4:59:24]
And so what does it
mean to us if we strike
[4:59:27]
either word or both words.
[4:59:28]
To be Frank with you, neither
word shows up in there.
[4:59:31]
Well, when you
have an ordinance,
[4:59:36]
the way we do ordinance is
we have a cover ordinance,
[4:59:38]
and then we have an exhibit A,
and the exhibit A is attached,
[4:59:42]
just like the parking schedule
was exhibit A, so in the exhibit
[4:59:46]
A, that was the staff proposal.
[4:59:48]
It did say the city shall
encourage because we felt
[4:59:51]
as staff, Brandon and
myself, that this is
[4:59:53]
as far as we could go
and still stay legal
[4:59:55]
under the state preemption.
[4:59:57]
The citizens presented
an alternative language
[5:00:00]
that mandated it.
[5:00:02]
We don't feel comfortable
giving the advice that that's
[5:00:05]
something that you can do.
[5:00:07]
I can't tell you not to.
[5:00:08]
I'm just saying it would
be very difficult to find,
[5:00:10]
and we might lose
attorney's fees.
[5:00:12]
Understood I'm
literally reading the.
[5:00:17]
I guess it's the I can pass out
the closed caption notes here.
[5:00:21]
I want to make
sure that because.
[5:00:23]
Because neither word is frankly
in what I'm reading right here.
[5:00:25]
Unless I want to pass out
the ordinance because it
[5:00:27]
will be in there.
[5:00:28]
Back to the AG thing.
[5:00:30]
So what are we waiting for the
AG to say the AG and its fine
[5:00:37]
and/or they reviewed it
and we are in violation.
[5:00:42]
What are we waiting
from the AG for.
[5:00:44]
So they publish it.
[5:00:45]
And that gives interested
parties a chance to review it,
[5:00:49]
and a chance to file a
declaratory injunctive relief
[5:00:52]
under the statute
if they think it's
[5:00:53]
in violation of the preemption.
[5:00:55]
So it's being reviewed right
now by AT&T legal counsel,
[5:00:59]
and it's being reviewed
at presumably the spectrum
[5:01:03]
and presumably at the
attorney general's office.
[5:01:06]
So we may hear from one
or all of those parties.
[5:01:10]
I think right now with the word
encourage in there, we're fine.
[5:01:13]
The spectrum wrote us a letter
that said the staff version they
[5:01:17]
did not object to but they
thought that the citizen version
[5:01:20]
violated the state preemption.
[5:01:21]
And we distributed that
letter at the last meeting.
[5:01:41]
It doesn't look like
the legislature is
[5:01:43]
interested in weakening
the preemptions,
[5:01:47]
when in fact they're
strengthening them.
[5:01:49]
This past session,
it was approved
[5:01:51]
Friday and was sent to the
governor, but not signed yet.
[5:02:03]
I wanted to understand what
would be the basis of repealing.
[5:02:09]
Technically, legally
speaking, can we discuss that.
[5:02:13]
You can resend an
ordinance at any time.
[5:02:15]
You have the legislative
capacity to adopt ordinances
[5:02:18]
and to repeal ordinances
or to amend ordinances.
[5:02:22]
So it's within one of your
three legislative choices.
[5:02:24]
And what about the
logical basis of it.
[5:02:27]
What of.
[5:02:29]
Well, we had a 90
page ordinance that
[5:02:30]
was adopted two weeks earlier
that all the parties agreed
[5:02:34]
was not preempted and
they could live with
[5:02:38]
and the citizens
were upset that it
[5:02:40]
didn't contain the
minimum separation
[5:02:41]
distance and the setback.
[5:02:43]
So that's why we separated
the two ordinances,
[5:02:46]
and they came forward
at two different times.
[5:02:48]
So we first approved
the 90 page ordinance.
[5:02:50]
There was a motion.
[5:02:51]
Second, and I think
everybody agreed
[5:02:53]
to bring the controversial
two items back again,
[5:02:57]
which then came back as
the second ordinance.
[5:03:03]
And as far as the
vote on that went.
[5:03:09]
Can you, Commissioner Maldonado,
could you elaborate what
[5:03:15]
you're thinking about.
[5:03:16]
I mean, is it because people
didn't realize what they
[5:03:20]
were voting for, or did they.
[5:03:23]
What are your thoughts.
[5:03:24]
So do you mean then or now.
[5:03:25]
In the present then.
[5:03:27]
Then yeah.
[5:03:28]
Yeah no.
[5:03:28]
So I mean, obviously my argument
was based on the briefing
[5:03:32]
by attorney Scott McCullough,
who used the citizens language
[5:03:36]
in a very strong
mandatory that was
[5:03:39]
an hour prior at
the very beginning
[5:03:41]
of the commission meeting.
[5:03:43]
And then there were subsequent
events that took place
[5:03:46]
to include a question
from Commissioner
[5:03:48]
Marriott to the attorney.
[5:03:52]
And that I think is at least
my interpretation of what could
[5:03:57]
have gone wrong is when there
was a response to the question,
[5:04:00]
do you remember what
the question was.
[5:04:01]
Commissioner Marriott.
[5:04:03]
I think my statement was if
we use the word encourage,
[5:04:09]
I might be able to
be on board with it.
[5:04:11]
But if it's mandatory, I'm not.
[5:04:14]
However, I think my position has
been misconstrued several times
[5:04:18]
because I wasn't going to vote
for it based on the 500 foot
[5:04:21]
separation distance,
which I also believe is
[5:04:24]
not allowed by state statute.
[5:04:25]
Can we take a pause.
[5:04:26]
I think we need to
extend just again.
[5:04:28]
Yeah must we go a half hour.
[5:04:31]
Can we try and do
it in 15 minutes.
[5:04:33]
No, that's what I'm asking.
[5:04:34]
Yeah half hour, just to be sure.
[5:04:36]
But somebody make a motion.
[5:04:37]
Make a motion to extend
our meeting till 11:15.
[5:04:42]
Second who's got
the second on that.
[5:04:46]
OK OK.
[5:04:50]
Commissioner Causey.
[5:04:52]
Yes commissioner.
[5:04:53]
Maldonado yes.
[5:04:54]
Mayor Tate.
[5:04:55]
Yes vice mayor.
[5:04:56]
Marriott yes.
[5:04:57]
Commissioner Robinson
Yes Motion carries.
[5:05:00]
So I voted no against
the ordinance.
[5:05:04]
Also, based on the fact
that there was the 500 foot
[5:05:06]
separation minimum
separation distance,
[5:05:08]
which I also believe to be
contrary to state statute.
[5:05:13]
So I wasn't going to
vote for that motion,
[5:05:15]
whether it said
encouraged or mandatory
[5:05:18]
on the 40 foot setbacks.
[5:05:20]
So I don't think that
helps anybody but.
[5:05:29]
Well, I can just say I'll just
say I've said it since day one.
[5:05:33]
I'm all for the health, safety,
and welfare of the residents
[5:05:36]
in this community.
[5:05:37]
I feel that there needs
to be some sort of safety
[5:05:41]
zone for a fall zone
on any of these poles,
[5:05:44]
towers, whatever you
want to call them.
[5:05:47]
It wasn't just but a few years
ago when the scheme of cell
[5:05:52]
phones that we learned, oh,
maybe we shouldn't hold it
[5:05:55]
against our head all day long.
[5:05:57]
So we don't know what the
health risks are for something
[5:06:01]
that's going to be
transmitting 24/7,
[5:06:05]
whether you want it to or
not, immediately next to you,
[5:06:08]
within 30, 40.
[5:06:11]
I'm agree with the residents.
[5:06:15]
I am willing to take the
risk of with the mandatory
[5:06:20]
and see where that falls.
[5:06:25]
So I was for the mandatory for
the citizens language as well.
[5:06:38]
So with that said,
I mean, my question
[5:06:40]
is, are we in an urgency
on this right this second.
[5:06:44]
Do we want to see what
encourage plays out to be.
[5:06:48]
Because my understanding is
now we can repeal, modify.
[5:06:54]
We still have to go through two
readings in regards to this.
[5:06:58]
I know it's not what
everybody wants,
[5:07:00]
but I think we're at a
point where we can't make
[5:07:02]
everybody happy
right now, but we can
[5:07:05]
at least make movement on this.
[5:07:08]
I think we've got the first
half of this in good shape.
[5:07:11]
It's this last two items.
[5:07:14]
If we fill this out, see
what comes back in our laps
[5:07:18]
and go from there.
[5:07:19]
And I will venture to say, I do
believe this is covered on PRM.
[5:07:23]
Do I have that correct.
[5:07:24]
PRG PR.
[5:07:28]
Insurance, all of our cases.
[5:07:31]
We have a limit, a
cap that we might hit.
[5:07:34]
And that's for the
defense counsel.
[5:07:36]
So there will be another
attorney representing us.
[5:07:39]
So I'm not corrupt.
[5:07:41]
I didn't take any
money from this.
[5:07:43]
But there will be another firm
that will have to defend you.
[5:07:46]
And our insurance
would not cover
[5:07:50]
probably not cover
the attorney's
[5:07:53]
fees for the other side.
[5:07:54]
That's your biggest danger.
[5:07:57]
And it would depend on
how far we go with it.
[5:07:59]
So how many hours are
incurred by the other side.
[5:08:03]
So if I understand, Commissioner
Robinson, just bring this
[5:08:09]
back to where we are right now.
[5:08:10]
So you're saying it's a
step in the right direction,
[5:08:12]
but you'd like to see
how things play out.
[5:08:16]
Basically, I think
we should see what
[5:08:20]
we get back from Tallahassee.
[5:08:21]
What we get back from the other.
[5:08:23]
I mean, we could take this right
now if we want to go forward
[5:08:26]
with it and do it again.
[5:08:29]
I'm fine with that as well.
[5:08:31]
Either way, but I just feel
that we've made some good steps
[5:08:36]
and maybe this misstep is worth.
[5:08:41]
Seeing how it plays.
[5:08:43]
I like that idea.
[5:08:45]
I'm not happy about it.
[5:08:46]
I think we all messed up.
[5:08:49]
I think we weren't very
clear on what we were.
[5:08:58]
I certainly agree with
your last statement
[5:09:00]
that we can learn from this.
[5:09:02]
So we certainly could have
done things a little bit more
[5:09:06]
polished.
[5:09:06]
I don't think there was any
ill intent on anyone's behalf
[5:09:10]
despite accusations
and discontent
[5:09:14]
from certain residents, the
word encouraged was used.
[5:09:18]
I didn't catch it, and it's
clearly in the transcripts,
[5:09:23]
but my position was
clear, and that's
[5:09:24]
why I wanted to have this open
and transparent conversation.
[5:09:27]
Is that because it was about
intent and not what was stated.
[5:09:32]
It's a critical learning point
for this commission moving
[5:09:35]
forward, so I'm fine with that.
[5:09:37]
Exhibit A just to point out,
I forgot to close that loop.
[5:09:40]
But in exhibit A that's
attached to the ordinance,
[5:09:42]
it does say registrants
are encouraged
[5:09:44]
to meet a setback of at
least it was 30 feet,
[5:09:47]
and we changed it
to at least 40.
[5:09:49]
Then the second part, it said
the city shall encourage.
[5:09:56]
And then it had one, 2, and 3.
[5:09:58]
And we added number four.
[5:10:01]
So the words appeared
in the exhibit
[5:10:03]
that was presented to you.
[5:10:05]
It certainly was.
[5:10:06]
It is.
[5:10:06]
I think there's some
misunderstanding.
[5:10:08]
The city strongly
encourages was the wording
[5:10:11]
from other interpretations
that things were being made up
[5:10:17]
up here or whatever, but we're
following what staff had put out
[5:10:22]
and the modifications
were to staff.
[5:10:25]
And unfortunately,
like I said, staff
[5:10:29]
was trying to I think the words
we used were thread the needle
[5:10:32]
to try to make something
that was defensible
[5:10:34]
and wouldn't violate
the preemption.
[5:10:36]
Correct just for information
for the new commissioners
[5:10:41]
and the existing ones,
Florida Home rule
[5:10:43]
allows us to do
anything as long as it's
[5:10:47]
not unconstitutional and not in
conflict with the state statute.
[5:10:51]
So if a state statute
says we can't do it,
[5:10:53]
that takes away our home
rule ability to act.
[5:10:59]
OK over to the chair.
[5:11:03]
I will tell you that just
comments real quick on that.
[5:11:09]
I mean, I think it puts
both Mr. Causey and myself
[5:11:13]
in an odd situation to try
and figure out what was
[5:11:15]
intended before we took office.
[5:11:17]
So, I don't know if
we have on record,
[5:11:23]
the prior mayor and the
prior commissioner's intent
[5:11:27]
formally on record.
[5:11:28]
That may help with this,
but be that as it may,
[5:11:32]
I think this is an
item for discussion.
[5:11:33]
Do we have any action
item we need to do
[5:11:35]
out of this or just discussion.
[5:11:36]
All right.
[5:11:38]
So just in the
interest of time, I
[5:11:39]
think we've got
about seven minutes
[5:11:41]
based on what we last we said.
[5:11:43]
So I'm sorry.
[5:11:44]
So do we have a
consensus that we're
[5:11:46]
going to keep the ordinance
as is and not keep it as it
[5:11:50]
is and see how it plays out.
[5:11:52]
For now, we can give
it a time frame.
[5:11:54]
If we want to be
absolutely clear.
[5:11:56]
Yes do we want to
give it a time.
[5:11:57]
Do we want to give
it a time frame.
[5:11:59]
What is.
[5:12:00]
You can initiate it
at any time you want.
[5:12:02]
So if we come back
next week, you
[5:12:03]
want to do something, or the
week after or next month.
[5:12:06]
What's the AG's usual 30 days.
[5:12:08]
You said from receipt.
[5:12:09]
Yeah that's when it
will become effective.
[5:12:11]
So it's not even effective
to wait for that.
[5:12:13]
It feels silly to
do it next time.
[5:12:15]
Yeah Wait, wait.
[5:12:16]
The time frame.
[5:12:16]
So thank you, John.
[5:12:18]
Thank you.
[5:12:18]
Thank you.
[5:12:19]
All right.
[5:12:20]
All right.
[5:12:22]
Let's see.
[5:12:23]
City clerk.
[5:12:24]
Any reports, please.
[5:12:26]
Yes so following the
election of Mayor Tate,
[5:12:29]
he was required to
resign from his position
[5:12:31]
on the police pension board.
[5:12:32]
As a result, a vacancy
now exists for that seat.
[5:12:35]
The city clerk's office
is accepting applications,
[5:12:37]
and the applicants must be
residents of ST Pete Beach.
[5:12:40]
Additionally, there have been
some recent board and committee
[5:12:42]
membership changes.
[5:12:44]
Rich lorenzon is no longer
serving on the planning board.
[5:12:46]
Mark kanich has transitioned
from the finance and budget
[5:12:48]
review committee to
the planning board,
[5:12:50]
and Kathy English has returned
to serve on the finance
[5:12:52]
and budget review committee.
[5:12:56]
OK thank you.
[5:12:59]
City manager, any reports.
[5:13:00]
Nothing to report.
[5:13:02]
City attorney.
[5:13:03]
I'll give you a legislative
update at your next meeting.
[5:13:06]
Sounds good.
[5:13:07]
Thank you.
[5:13:09]
Commissioner reports.
[5:13:10]
I'll start with Mr.
Mr. Maldonado, please.
[5:13:13]
Thank you.
[5:13:14]
Chair So again, thank you to
the city manager for attending
[5:13:16]
the community meeting that
we had over at the Warren
[5:13:19]
Webster building.
[5:13:20]
Well attended, close to 50
people, some great conversations
[5:13:24]
and things to work on.
[5:13:26]
Again, welcome to our new mayor,
new commissioner, and sincere
[5:13:31]
thank you to our outgoing
mayor and Commissioner
[5:13:33]
for all their hard
work for the community.
[5:13:35]
So that's all I've got.
[5:13:36]
Thank you.
[5:13:38]
Thank you, Commissioner coursey.
[5:13:40]
I would just like to highlight
that we parking is in focus
[5:13:45]
right now, and I've already
spoken with our staff about
[5:13:50]
parking, and I know they're
working on it and specifically
[5:13:54]
want to move into the short
queue now 46th Street,
[5:14:00]
after we've looked at some.
[5:14:02]
That's 46th Avenue.
[5:14:07]
OK thank you,
Commissioner Robinson.
[5:14:10]
I'm looking at I
just want to let
[5:14:12]
everybody know I'll be able
to make an announcement
[5:14:14]
at the next meeting.
[5:14:16]
Re-establishing my
library hours for meeting.
[5:14:22]
Thank you,
Commissioner Marriott.
[5:14:24]
Yes thank you.
[5:14:25]
Welcome to our new
mayor and Commissioner
[5:14:27]
from district three.
[5:14:28]
And I want to let
everyone know I'm
[5:14:31]
going to have a beer with
Commissioner event on Tuesday,
[5:14:33]
March 31.
[5:14:34]
A week from tonight
at mastery's brewing.
[5:14:37]
Beer drinking is not
mandatory, but I'll have one.
[5:14:41]
And I also want to thank
the folks at Corry Avenue
[5:14:45]
and the Corry Avenue
business association
[5:14:47]
for putting on an awesome ST
Patrick's Day celebration.
[5:14:51]
It was really great to see all
the people having a great time.
[5:14:54]
And don't forget the Concert
in the Park this Friday.
[5:14:58]
Yeah thank you.
[5:14:59]
I think we wrap up
with my comments.
[5:15:02]
I echo the city
events that we've
[5:15:05]
been doing concert in the
parks, the ST Patrick's Day,
[5:15:08]
lots of smiling faces.
[5:15:10]
Really, really good to see.
[5:15:12]
I know I'm bending our
city manager's ear a lot
[5:15:15]
over the next.
[5:15:16]
Over the past few weeks and
the weeks going forward,
[5:15:18]
and I appreciate all of
the city staff and folks
[5:15:22]
for obliging me for my many
questions coming so far.
[5:15:26]
So thank you very much.
[5:15:28]
With that, I think
we're ready to adjourn.
[5:15:33]
All right under the wire.
[5:15:35]
This commission
meeting is adjourned.
[5:15:38]
Thank you.