[9:10] the delaware house delaware

[9:12] housing department task force

[9:14] meeting is called to order in

[9:16] accordance with HCR74 members of

[9:18] the public can participate

[9:20] either in person or virtually

[9:22] through Zoom webinar the public

[9:22] can participate virtually by

[9:24] registering through the meeting

[9:25] link posted on the general

[9:28] assembly's website instructions

[9:28] for providing public comment are

[9:30] available on the website under

[9:31] this taskorce meeting's notice

[9:32] and we'll also be shared during

[9:34] the public comment portion of

[9:36] the hearing members of the

[9:37] public physically present for

[9:37] the meeting

[9:40] and would like to provide a

[9:42] comment may sign up on the

[9:44] speaker's list today's task

[9:44] force meeting will begin with

[9:46] roll call attendance and a task

[9:48] force meeting members present

[9:50] sorry for the hesitation we

[9:51] thought Senatoruckxton wasn't

[9:52] coming that he came right in

[9:53] time look at that

[9:57] coachchairharris present

[9:59] cochairhoffner

[10:00] presidentpresentative Smith

[10:01] SenatorBuxton

[10:06] ' ll be right back I'm gonna go

[10:09] get a suit and tie appreciate

[10:09] that

[10:13] uhrector heckles I'm here deputy

[10:14] secretary sheffert

[10:18] state planning director Edjill

[10:21] tro ll er generaliller

[10:26] deputyc deputy secretary cob

[10:27] right

[10:30] having a quorum present we will

[10:32] begin our task force the first

[10:35] agenda item is to vote on our

[10:37] previous minutes dated Thursday

[10:40] September2ieth2025 and Thursday

[10:41] December182025.

[10:46] people take a moment to look it

[10:47] over

[10:50] look them over

[10:51] push into a griff

[10:56] have a a motion to approve

[11:00] both sides all in favor say aye

[11:02] all opposed no

[11:06] having received the required

[11:10] number carries with that said

[11:13] our next agenda item is going to

[11:14] be with the delaware association

[11:17] of realtors their presentation

[11:20] gentle reminder reminder that

[11:22] you will have15 minutes give or

[11:23] take and then followed by a

[11:23] question and answer

[11:30] did we have two minutes to

[11:31] approve?

[11:34] yes said you said I'm sorry I'm

[11:35] sorry missed upper

[11:36] right good morning everyone

[11:42] thank you for the opportunity to

[11:43] speak with you today. my name is

[11:46] Wesley Stefaic and I am the CEO

[11:47] of the delaware association of

[11:48] Realtors. We represent the

[11:50] majority of delaware's licensed

[11:51] real estate professionals

[11:52] realtors working in all three

[11:54] counties at every price point in

[11:56] every community the state has

[11:59] cities small towns farmlands and

[12:01] of course the beaches we

[12:02] appreciate the seriousness with

[12:03] which you approach this issue

[12:04] and we want to share our on the

[12:06] ground perspective as the people

[12:07] who work in delaware's real

[12:07] estate marketplace every single

[12:08] day

[12:10] ex t slide please

[12:17] the delaware association

[12:18] Realtors exist to preserve,

[12:20] protect and advance the right of

[12:21] real property ownership fore

[12:24] every delawarean we call

[12:24] ourselves the voice of real

[12:26] estate in delaware and when we

[12:27] say real estate we mean all of

[12:29] it residential commercial

[12:29] property management and land

[12:32] today is about housing so we'll

[12:34] focus on that but for what it's

[12:35] worth knowing DAr represents

[12:37] every corner of the

[12:39] industrylongside our three local

[12:40] boards which is the newcastle

[12:42] County Board of Realtors the

[12:42] Kent County association of

[12:44] Realtors and the Sussex County

[12:46] Association realtors and in

[12:47] partnership with the national

[12:48] association of Realtors we

[12:50] support thousands of

[12:50] professionals whose daily work

[12:52] is helping people buy, sell and

[12:54] rent property the majority of it

[12:56] homes excuse me in every corner

[12:58] of the state just a quick note

[12:59] on the terms just so everyone's

[13:00] on the same

[13:02] page onlyly members of the

[13:04] national association of Realtors

[13:06] can call can use the title

[13:08] realtor and then and every one

[13:09] of our members is licensed by

[13:10] the delaware Realeststate

[13:12] Commission and they also

[13:12] subscribe to the national

[13:16] association's code of ethics not

[13:17] all real estate agents are

[13:19] realtors DAR counts the majority

[13:20] of the state's real estate

[13:22] licensees among our members so

[13:24] what you'll hear from me today

[13:24] reflects that experience of most

[13:26] professionals working in

[13:28] delaware's housing market the

[13:28] numbers are somewhere around I

[13:29] have4200 members

[13:31] and there's about

[13:34] 2000 more other types of

[13:36] licensees in the stateext

[13:36] slide please

[13:38] our members pretty much created

[13:40] and still facilitate delaware's

[13:42] real estate marketplace. They

[13:44] handle most of the transactions

[13:45] that occur in the state each

[13:46] year and every one of those

[13:47] transactions generates revenue

[13:49] through through the state realty

[13:50] transfer tax making our

[13:52] member's' daily work one of the

[13:54] engines of state revenueccording

[13:56] to the state's own June202ix

[13:58] revenue forecast from Dfa the

[13:58] realty transfersfer tax

[14:00] collections are projected

[14:02] at247.4 million this fiscal year

[14:04] climbing to258.4 million by

[14:06] fiscal year2028. that's nearly

[14:08] a quarter of a billion dollars a

[14:10] year flowing into the state

[14:12] budget generated directly by the

[14:14] transactions our members handle

[14:14] but our role goes beyond the

[14:17] closing table. Our members are

[14:18] very often the first people to

[14:20] tell a first time buyer that

[14:21] delaware offers down payment

[14:22] assistance through the delaware

[14:24] state housing Authority or that

[14:26] a transfer tax exemption exists

[14:28] for first time buyers that

[14:29] information does no good sitting

[14:30] in a brochure or simply on a

[14:32] website it does good when a

[14:33] realtor's able to put it in

[14:34] their client's hands in front of

[14:34] them

[14:36] ex t slide please

[14:40] we're investing our own

[14:42] resources not public funds in

[14:43] consumer education we're

[14:44] building a statewide housing

[14:46] resource website to help

[14:46] delaware delawareans find

[14:49] housing programs and educational

[14:51] materials in one place we're

[14:52] also launching a companion site

[14:54] focused on financial literacy

[14:55] for prospective buyers and

[14:57] you'll find the details of those

[14:58] websites in our written comments

[15:00] if you want to review them. I'm

[15:01] not going to say theurL's out

[15:02] loud but if you have my written

[15:04] comments you can find those and

[15:05] take a look for yourselves. They

[15:06] haven't launched yet but we got

[15:07] them up and running just so you

[15:08] can see what we'

[15:09] re working on

[15:11] uhA does not receive or

[15:12] administer any public housing

[15:14] funds our most significant

[15:17] resources are people a statewide

[15:18] network of realtors local boards

[15:20] and staff that reaches every

[15:21] community in delaware and we

[15:22] regularly volunteer that network

[15:24] in support of housing

[15:25] initiativesext slide please

[15:30] so we already work directly

[15:32] withdSHA our members volunteer

[15:32] their time in professional

[15:34] expertise and projects the

[15:36] authority manages we partner

[15:36] withdSHha and the homeme

[15:38] buildilders association to host

[15:40] the delaware real estate summit

[15:41] registration closes Friday if

[15:42] you're interested it's next

[15:44] Thursday so you can still sign

[15:46] up we partner to bring that

[15:48] so that the public and private

[15:50] sides of delaware real estate

[15:52] can share data and coordinate on

[15:53] solutions and every time we

[15:54] educate our own members

[15:56] aboutdSHA's loan programme

[15:57] products and assistance

[15:59] programs those members carry

[16:01] that knowledge into every

[16:02] community they serve in effect

[16:04] our membership functions as a

[16:05] statewide distribution network

[16:06] for the state's own housing

[16:09] programs I've also personally

[16:10] myself served on the

[16:10] stateffordable housing

[16:12] Production task forcece and

[16:12] we'll be on the new rights and

[16:14] responsibilitiesittee for

[16:15] landlords and enants which is

[16:16] getting started next next

[16:18] monthext slide please

[16:22] all right I can't come up here

[16:24] and not talk about it. I want to

[16:24] spend just a moment on the

[16:26] single greatest barriers our

[16:28] members see and that's the

[16:28] realty transfer tax at a

[16:32] combined rate of4% in most of

[16:33] delaware it's the highest state

[16:34] levelve transfer tax in the

[16:36] country collected at closing on

[16:38] top of the down payment on

[16:40] today's medium home price and I

[16:41] provided everybody a recent

[16:44] numbers in front of you on

[16:44] the today's meeting on home

[16:48] price of419450 dollars that's a

[16:48] transfer tax bill of

[16:49] roughly16,800 dollars

[16:53] or about $8400 for each the

[16:53] buyer and the seller

[16:57] the first time buyer reduction

[16:58] helps but it's capped at2000

[17:00] dollars and only applies to the

[17:00] first400,000 of value

[17:04] so for a lower or moderate

[17:06] income family that gap is often

[17:07] the difference between buying a

[17:08] home and remain remaining a

[17:08] renter

[17:11] and it's not a marginal line

[17:12] item the state's own forecast

[17:14] already counts on this tax to

[17:14] deliver close to a quarter

[17:16] billion dollars a year growing

[17:18] every year purely because our

[17:18] members keep closing

[17:19] transactions.

[17:22] the gap between owning and

[17:24] renting isn't just about

[17:25] transfer tax though it's about

[17:26] financial literacyc according to

[17:28] the Federal Reserve's2022 cons

[17:31] survey of consumer finances the

[17:34] median homeowner's net worth is

[17:37] roughly396,00 compared to

[17:40] just10,400 dollars for renters

[17:43] that's a gap of about38 times

[17:44] and it holds across nearly every

[17:45] age group

[17:48] that's part of why DAR is

[17:50] launching the financial literary

[17:52] literacy website for delawareans

[17:54] that I mentioned on the

[17:56] previous slides I know from my

[17:57] own experience I'm a former

[17:58] credit union chairman I served

[18:00] on the board of the delaware

[18:02] Mortgage Bankers association

[18:02] the delaware Council for

[18:04] Economic Education and I'm

[18:06] actually still supervisory

[18:06] chairman for a credit union here

[18:08] in delaware we know that just

[18:10] basic financial literacy eludes

[18:12] a lot of our friends and

[18:13] neighbors deer for it's

[18:14] everyday to improve the

[18:15] conditions for homeownership and

[18:15] more delaware delawareans

[18:18] can build generational wealth

[18:21] when my members and I raised

[18:22] concerns about the transfer tax

[18:26] you repeat what you just said

[18:28] please more specifically what's

[18:30] that just before you let into

[18:31] that

[18:34] you were explaining something

[18:34] about challenges in financial

[18:35] literacy

[18:38] right before that what was it

[18:40] that you were using as the

[18:42] example the survey of consumer

[18:44] what we yeah what was that

[18:47] soederalreserves it's the2022

[18:48] survey I believe it might be the

[18:51] last one the survey of consumer

[18:53] finances the median homeowner's

[18:56] net worth is roughly396,000

[18:58] compared to renters which

[18:59] is10,400 dollars

[19:04] so when my members and I raised

[19:06] concerns about the transfer tax

[19:06] it's just not abstract it's high

[19:08] nobodybody can dispute that and

[19:10] has to be paid at settlement it

[19:11] just can't be rolled into the

[19:12] mortgageext slide please

[19:16] realtors likely have the largest

[19:18] impact of any group in delaware

[19:21] to build generational wealth

[19:22] because we create and facilitate

[19:23] the marketplace through which

[19:24] most people acquire their single

[19:26] largest asset, their home we

[19:28] want a genuine partnership with

[19:29] the state not only in helping

[19:30] families get into homes small

[19:32] business buy a small businesses

[19:34] buy a building or larger

[19:36] businesses expand but in helping

[19:38] all of them stay here through

[19:39] coordinated outreach on

[19:41] foreclosure prevention homeme

[19:43] repair resources and just basic

[19:43] general consumer assistance

[19:46] our members are not observers in

[19:48] this market they are in it in

[19:50] every day in every community and

[19:51] when a policy makes a closing

[19:54] fall apart or policy or prices a

[19:54] first time buyers out of a

[19:56] neighborhood or makes the profit

[19:58] and loss statement no longer

[19:59] makes sense for businesses my

[20:00] members see it often long before

[20:02] it shows up in any state data

[20:04] sets that's why our interest in

[20:06] the state ins excuse me that's

[20:08] why our interests and the

[20:10] state's interests are aligned

[20:11] realtors succeed only when

[20:12] delawareans can buy, sell and

[20:13] keep their homes and properties

[20:16] a standing seat at the table

[20:17] whether through some sort of

[20:18] advisory role or simply

[20:20] consultation before

[20:22] rulemaking or lawmaking would

[20:24] cost the state little and help

[20:26] avoid unintended consequencesext

[20:27] slide please

[20:30] on the structural question

[20:32] before this task force I just

[20:34] want to be direct we believe the

[20:34] delaware state housing Authority

[20:36] is the best organization in the

[20:38] state to carry out the goals

[20:39] you're considering DSHA has

[20:40] decades of institutional

[20:42] knowledge established federal

[20:44] funding relationships and

[20:46] existing statewide programs

[20:47] rather than building a new

[20:48] department from scratch with the

[20:49] cost duplication and disruption

[20:51] that may entail we believe the

[20:52] state can accomplish its aims

[20:54] through a renaming or

[20:56] reorganization of the authority

[20:57] in many different ways paired

[20:57] with additional financial

[20:58] support for dedicated

[21:01] consumer assistance function if

[21:02] that is what you're seeking if

[21:04] these presentations that we've

[21:06] seen over the last few meetings

[21:07] have taught us anything. it's

[21:08] that state government already

[21:10] offers a wide range of housing

[21:12] related programs scattered

[21:12] across many different

[21:14] departments with no single place

[21:16] to find them all closing that

[21:18] gap is exactly why we were

[21:18] developing our website

[21:21] we're not finished with it like

[21:22] I said but if the state wants to

[21:24] take this on be our guest that's

[21:24] fine

[21:25] ex t slide please

[21:29] whateverever structure does

[21:32] emerge we do have one overriding

[21:33] concern the general assembly

[21:34] should not surrender its own

[21:35] authority by delegating

[21:37] rulemaking power that affects

[21:40] property owners to an executive

[21:41] agencycisions that touch the

[21:42] property rights of delawareans

[21:44] should remain with the people's

[21:46] elected representatives who

[21:48] directly answered to voters this

[21:49] is our most significant concern

[21:50] with any reorganization of

[21:51] government authority over

[21:53] housing and we urge this task

[21:54] force to make preservation of

[21:56] legislative authority and

[21:56] explicit principle in your

[21:57] recommendations

[21:58] ex t slide please

[22:02] if the goal's a onetop shop were

[22:02] any delawarean confined housing

[22:04] resources state provides as I

[22:06] said we don't believe that's a

[22:07] new department it requires a

[22:08] wellstaffed consumer hotline and

[22:11] a wellsign well designed website

[22:12] and like I said we're already

[22:14] building that ourselves we also

[22:16] think that maybe the211

[22:18] resources could be improved as

[22:19] well if the state does invest in

[22:21] new functions we recommend they

[22:22] be a consumer facing and service

[22:24] oriented navigation for

[22:26] assistance for first time buyers

[22:27] a clear front door to down

[22:28] payment and a repair programs

[22:29] and coord

[22:31] ination among the agencies and

[22:32] nonprofits that are already

[22:33] touch housing

[22:36] Next slide please delaware's

[22:37] housing challenge is

[22:38] fundamentally one of

[22:40] affordability and supply not

[22:43] insufficient bureaucracy look at

[22:44] where the market stands right

[22:46] now as of July delaware has

[22:50] had5760 active listings

[22:54] statewide sales1210 homes and5.5

[22:58] once.5 months of supply which we

[23:00] can actually say is a rather

[23:01] balanced market at this point in

[23:02] time. but the median sales price

[23:03] is up4.8% year over

[23:07] year to419,450 while sales

[23:10] volume is essentially flat up

[23:11] less than1% from a year ago.

[23:14] delawareans aren't staying out

[23:14] of the market because there's no

[23:16] state department to help them

[23:18] they're being simply priced out

[23:20] the most impactful steps the

[23:21] state can take are to lower the

[23:22] costs of buying a home starting

[23:24] with relief from the nation's

[23:24] highest

[23:28] transfer tax to support the

[23:28] production of new housing and to

[23:30] strengthen the agency that

[23:31] already does this work so

[23:34] well last slide and I just

[23:34] want to say thank you for your

[23:36] time today if you have any

[23:38] questions feel free but always

[23:40] consider the delaware state

[23:41] delaware association of realtors

[23:42] as a partner with any housing

[23:43] matters so thank you

[23:44] thank you any questions

[23:46] Director heckles

[23:52] first thanks the realtors are

[23:52] a great partner and in all of

[23:55] this with our first time

[23:56] home buyer mortgage program

[23:58] especially the sort of the

[24:01] flagship of homeownership atdSHA

[24:04] you talked about legislative

[24:04] authority

[24:08] and rulemaking power but

[24:10] vaguely is there anything that

[24:11] you have in mind about that that

[24:12] that would that would help me

[24:13] understand exactly what you mean

[24:14] there

[24:16] I believe where we're concerned

[24:18] if this new department is set up

[24:19] that they are now just

[24:22] rulemaking we believe that

[24:22] anything related to housing

[24:23] really should be a conversation

[24:25] in the legislature rather than

[24:26] going through the regulatory

[24:27] process for whatever topic

[24:30] I'm sure there's many we could

[24:32] talk about but you don't have a

[24:34] specific no the general concerns

[24:35] general concern yeah

[24:40] p re s ent ative s mi th

[24:44] thank you madam chairir Wes

[24:46] thanks for your presentation

[24:47] appreciate you bringing up the

[24:50] realty transfer tax I think

[24:50] we raised that to the highest in

[24:52] the nation the year before I was

[24:54] elected I think every year we've

[24:56] tried to put a bill forward to

[24:56] lower that we get I think

[25:00] in the arguments collectively in

[25:02] the building on exactly if

[25:04] that's a good or bad way of

[25:06] doing tax policy but at the end

[25:08] of the day it is hard earned

[25:08] money in every one of our

[25:11] constituents pockets that

[25:13] they're losing on that so it

[25:14] would be a proponent of of doing

[25:16] that knowing that we'd be giving

[25:18] that it was supposed to be a

[25:19] temporary tax kind of like the

[25:20] gross receipts tax but yet here

[25:22] we are with that too just to use

[25:24] that as an example I think it's

[25:26] hard to talk to people on our

[25:26] position sometimes and really

[25:27] advocate for that because

[25:30] what I've found in my short

[25:31] tenure long tenure whatever it

[25:34] is at this point is that once

[25:36] you get the money it's hard to

[25:37] then give it back but I just

[25:38] want to bring it full circle

[25:40] real quick if you give me a

[25:42] little leniency is I was door

[25:42] knocking talking to some

[25:45] constituents around that have

[25:47] adults with disabilities and one

[25:48] of the things that I was very

[25:50] daunting to me as we passed

[25:52] theigngnesbeac before I was

[25:54] elected as well but was an

[25:54] unfunded mandate that we still

[25:56] have yet to fulfill our promise

[25:57] on on paying direct

[26:00] support professionals and other

[26:02] to the what they should to

[26:02] deliver that service we should

[26:04] probably fulfill those promises

[26:06] first and lower things like this

[26:08] versus continuing to add new

[26:10] programs or new offices

[26:12] sometimes what I find adding the

[26:13] new office isn't necessarily the

[26:14] way to go it's the partnership

[26:16] model that is generally

[26:18] strengthening it because I find

[26:20] folks in your situation or your

[26:22] association market better

[26:24] than the government does so

[26:25] every time the government opens

[26:26] up a website markk that's not

[26:27] marketing marketing

[26:30] is putting dollars behind

[26:31] something so people know where

[26:33] to go as a onetop shop to do

[26:34] something so a website alone

[26:37] will not do that as you very

[26:38] well know so appreciate your

[26:41] conversation and hopefully we

[26:43] can do more around this but if

[26:44] we're not willing to put dollars

[26:46] behind where the office is like

[26:46] we do about so many other

[26:48] officess that we create we're

[26:50] probably just going to be back

[26:51] here again next year talking

[26:51] about the same thing so thank

[26:52] you

[26:54] you mind if

[26:57] I would say take a look at that

[27:00] website theurRL's in the written

[27:00] comments you know the goal

[27:04] for us is and and you've seen

[27:05] and heard that through the

[27:06] presentations that we've had is

[27:06] that

[27:08] there's so many different

[27:09] programs out there from many

[27:10] different departments and then

[27:12] there's so many other external

[27:14] programs also but there is no

[27:16] nice central database we're

[27:18] building that for our members

[27:19] right now but it's obviously

[27:20] open to the public and it's

[27:22] designed to be a public resource

[27:24] that's our small foray into

[27:26] trying to fix this problem to

[27:27] make

[27:28] all the information kind of more

[27:30] in one place so people can find

[27:31] it

[27:34] thank you so much any other

[27:38] questions Senator buxton sure

[27:40] appreciated the presentation

[27:41] the information and those types

[27:41] of things and

[27:44] I was at a function last night

[27:46] the realty transferred taxes it

[27:47] is easy to be celebrated

[27:50] but it is certainly not that

[27:51] easy to implement it's

[27:54] some million dollar hole in the

[27:55] budget which I'm in favor of

[27:58] I'm absolutely in favor of but

[28:00] in order to do that you're going

[28:02] to have to look at some serious

[28:04] decisions about what are we not

[28:07] going to to spend fund or expand

[28:08] or where we going to get the

[28:10] dollars from see just you really

[28:11] have to you can't it's not that

[28:13] simple to just say cla it back

[28:16] to3% right but if somebody sends

[28:18] a bill out my way that has that

[28:18] I am all in

[28:21] right so don't don't get it

[28:22] twisted but I really want if

[28:23] we're gonna go down that road

[28:24] let's have these real

[28:26] conversations about how we do

[28:27] that. I think there's other

[28:27] avenues

[28:30] if the pure intent the goal is

[28:34] the initial homeownership from

[28:34] first time home buyers

[28:38] let's really go all in let's not

[28:39] nickel and dimonmon at a half%

[28:40] let's not nickel and dime it it

[28:42] capping it at2000 let's

[28:45] let's have the state go all in

[28:45] when it comes to

[28:48] you know supporting home

[28:50] ownership for the first time

[28:52] homeowners so and I know there's

[28:54] some language out there in bills

[28:55] I was the sponsor of one

[28:58] but I really think that that

[28:59] it's a very popular thing to say

[29:00] I think it's an impactful and

[29:02] important thing to say what I

[29:04] think we need to do is take a

[29:05] couple of the decision makers

[29:06] that are in control the majority

[29:08] party and come down and come in

[29:10] with something very concrete

[29:11] that we can do next year

[29:12] specific to first timers but I

[29:14] will say this and this is

[29:15] important

[29:18] cause I'm having this

[29:18] conversation with my son

[29:22] and'm I'm a realtor so a realtor

[29:24] so I you know have people reach

[29:26] out to me how can you get my my

[29:28] child started and what I tell

[29:30] him is this think of it the same

[29:30] way we thought of degrees back

[29:31] in the day

[29:34] right where degrees where the

[29:35] end all to be

[29:37] if the market and the home that

[29:38] you're looking to get and the

[29:40] numbers that they produce when

[29:41] you buy

[29:41] don't add up

[29:46] then it is better to look at a a

[29:46] rental situation

[29:50] as long as you're taking the

[29:51] money if there is a savings to

[29:51] be had

[29:52] and invest in it

[29:56] the same way you do when you

[29:58] make a mortgage payment it

[30:00] typically comes back in an

[30:02] investment down the road because

[30:03] there's value in the home

[30:07] if you are in a rental situation

[30:08] where you can convince a young

[30:08] renter

[30:10] to invest in a market of sorts

[30:15] then you're not then you do have

[30:18] thatho that that income that

[30:19] household wealth that individual

[30:22] wealth that we talk about so I

[30:24] just really literally real

[30:25] conversations that I'm having

[30:26] with my son he's looking out

[30:27] there and trying to find a home

[30:30] to purchase and get started and

[30:31] when again I'm saying is

[30:35] if you're if you end up in a h

[30:36] he thinks your dream home and

[30:38] you're paying3600 dollars a

[30:40] month on a home that you have

[30:42] paid top dollar for that's not

[30:43] just be careful

[30:46] anyway so good conversation we

[30:46] had

[30:50] Senator Hfner

[30:53] thank you thank you for coming

[30:55] in today I hope you're enjoying

[30:57] your summer a a little bit so

[30:59] I'm excited about the pathways

[31:02] to keys website and how would

[31:04] that work with neighborhood good

[31:05] because you know over the years

[31:06] they've tried to do financial

[31:08] literacy to help people get into

[31:10] homes could it be like a

[31:12] combination type of thing yeah

[31:14] so what we've discovered is

[31:15] there are plenty of programs out

[31:16] there there's no lack of

[31:17] financial literacy programs for

[31:19] sure especially in delaware

[31:20] there's also many different

[31:20] programs that just operate

[31:24] as financial literacy schools if

[31:25] you will the state

[31:26] treasurer's office also has a

[31:28] great website that has a lot of

[31:30] resources. Our goal with this is

[31:31] to kind of consolidate it all in

[31:33] one place is kind of a navigator

[31:36] the path the pathway to try

[31:36] to figure out you know

[31:39] where someone fits in and then

[31:41] find the resources that already

[31:43] exist all we're doing is

[31:44] redirecting them and hopefully

[31:46] at the end of it they're

[31:48] working with a realtor that can

[31:49] help them through the rest of

[31:49] the process

[31:50] oh sorry

[31:53] did this idea like when we

[31:55] started this last year did that

[31:56] idea come out of that or you

[31:58] were already working on it yeah

[31:59] we were already working on it

[32:01] and was it very costly to get

[32:02] this website up and running

[32:08] not at all it's funny you

[32:10] know we talked about ai AI is

[32:10] definitely helping a lot with a

[32:12] lot of different things like

[32:14] this and now it doesn't cost

[32:16] that much it's just verification

[32:18] of information is the biggest

[32:20] time commitment to the project

[32:22] so that has to be done that is

[32:24] obviously costly in some ways

[32:26] but not developing a website

[32:28] anymore. OK so and then also the

[32:29] last part of

[32:32] we do have a lot of realtors so

[32:33] they're you marketing piece

[32:33] they're going out and meeting

[32:36] people and saying hey go go to

[32:38] this website and look to see

[32:41] where you're going to fall in

[32:44] are you going to do any other

[32:45] marketing piece to let people

[32:46] know this is out there

[32:50] it's not launched officially I

[32:51] wanted to share it with all of

[32:53] you but we're going to do a big

[32:54] marketing push around that

[32:56] website so people know where to

[32:56] go

[33:00] deputy secretary

[33:04] I felt like I wasn't going to

[33:07] talk this round but then a

[33:09] couple of questions so

[33:10] understanding what you said that

[33:12] delawareringers are outpriced or

[33:14] and then you talked about the

[33:18] real t transfer tax at4%

[33:20] a400,000 dollars home with the

[33:22] median income of delawareans

[33:26] is that on on par for with the

[33:26] medium income is

[33:30] so is it100,000 dollars

[33:32] for400,000 dollars home how much

[33:34] do you have to make or is are

[33:35] you saying that the realty

[33:38] transfer tax at4%16,000 dollars

[33:40] is what's out pricing

[33:40] delawareans just so I'm clear

[33:46] it's part of it for sure you

[33:47] have to have that cash at

[33:49] closing at settlement so you

[33:49] have to already be saving for it

[33:54] to get to that point you know

[33:55] you have to consider that

[33:57] everything else it costs to have

[33:59] property have a home too

[34:00] insurance rates are going

[34:02] through the roof across the

[34:04] state across the country

[34:04] everything else with local

[34:06] taxation right now is a big

[34:07] discussion so I'm not sure I'm

[34:07] answering your question but

[34:10] guess what other fact when I

[34:11] heard the median

[34:14] price for a home is41ine as

[34:16] thought about all the

[34:17] delawarenes that will never be

[34:18] able to hit that mark for where

[34:20] they are right now and what

[34:22] other tools we're trying to

[34:24] bring into the toolbox to get

[34:26] them to be able to even afford

[34:28] to be in that that sandbox to

[34:30] think about a400,000 dollars

[34:32] house what does that what does

[34:34] the universe look like in in the

[34:36] state's inventory if that's the

[34:37] median there are a lot of

[34:38] delawareans that will never be

[34:40] able to qualify for400,000

[34:41] dollars home that's not their

[34:41] reality and

[34:44] so what does that lower price

[34:46] point look like so that we can

[34:47] get more delawareans into home

[34:49] ownership yeah I can't say I can

[34:50] sit here right now and answer

[34:52] that it would just depend

[34:54] everyone's backgrounds

[34:56] everyone's needs and wants

[34:58] are going to be different I

[34:58] don't I can't sit here and give

[35:00] you a number for across the

[35:02] board it's something we can work

[35:03] on and gathering more

[35:04] information for sure but I can't

[35:05] do that right now

[35:08] p re s ent ative s mi th

[35:13] thank you madam chair just a few

[35:14] things to kind of level set us

[35:16] like one don't forget the

[35:18] competition for delawareans are

[35:20] people from New Jersey and

[35:22] Pennsylvania and others that

[35:24] have no problem paying any tax

[35:25] because they've just been paying

[35:26] double or triple that tax ever

[35:30] since while while simultaneously

[35:32] forcing a lot of delawareans to

[35:34] now pay higher tax after

[35:36] reassessment just to talk about

[35:38] like myself and others right we

[35:40] we we buy houses we try to you

[35:40] know

[35:43] have a place to establish our

[35:44] families our kids my personal

[35:47] mortgage has gone up over $800 a

[35:49] month afterristina took the

[35:52] additional10% insurance rates

[35:54] through the roof but the reason

[35:55] why the realty transfer tax is

[35:56] important for that is that is

[35:58] cash I have to have at closing

[36:00] so if you don't have a family

[36:02] member if you don't have that

[36:04] money on you and you don't have

[36:05] a family member that can gift

[36:06] that to you or you can't get a

[36:08] loan which then you're taking

[36:10] another loan out on a loan that

[36:11] you're about to take right

[36:13] you're already pricing yourself

[36:14] out of the market completely so

[36:16] there's very few things we're

[36:19] going to tangibly be able to do

[36:21] in this process in order to do

[36:22] that because of the way the

[36:24] market is from national force

[36:26] perspective when it comes to the

[36:28] insurance side the interest

[36:32] rate side I mean I will never

[36:34] redo my interest rate at this

[36:35] point because I got it during C

[36:38] coID when it was the smallest

[36:40] almost ever right and the same

[36:40] point

[36:42] to the rental side of it

[36:46] rentals are going up for

[36:48] delawareans that can't afford to

[36:50] buy homes either because a lot

[36:52] of people we like to go after

[36:54] kind of a large renter meaning

[36:56] they have multiple rentals

[36:58] like10 or more20 or more the

[37:00] problem is we also have a ton of

[37:01] people in our state that have

[37:04] one or two generally one because

[37:06] they're trying to keep it to

[37:07] provide for a loved one or

[37:08] somebody later in their life

[37:10] where they had to raise the rent

[37:12] on their rental for that renter

[37:13] because

[37:16] their price went up on their

[37:18] mortgage to provide it and so

[37:20] they're not making money off of

[37:20] that they have to raise it

[37:22] because their taxes their

[37:24] insurance and everything have

[37:25] gone up so we're also going to

[37:26] have that other issue with those

[37:28] types of people are going to

[37:30] sell cause they don't want to

[37:31] have to deal with the renter

[37:32] that has more rights than they

[37:36] do in order to get out of that

[37:37] market which is going to create

[37:38] another housing crisis as well

[37:40] so I just want to make sure we

[37:42] level set on all of those things

[37:42] because that's important when we

[37:43] think about things

[37:45] and tangible things that can be

[37:45] done on our level

[37:51] what is the reason why the

[37:52] transfer tax can't be rolled

[37:53] into the mortgage

[37:56] that's why I was asked this a

[37:58] couple of months ago and now

[37:58] they gave a better answer that

[38:00] I'm about to give the banks

[38:02] just won't do it it's that

[38:04] simple it's a risk already

[38:06] they have an asset they can take

[38:07] with the property they can't do

[38:07] that with the taxes

[38:13] senator buxton

[38:16] that's in a nutshell right there

[38:17] they're basing a loan on the

[38:18] value of the home the taxes is

[38:19] separate but

[38:24] it's an interesting relationship

[38:25] because I know we're not into

[38:25] this space

[38:27] but when you talk about

[38:28] affordable housing when you talk

[38:30] about government intervention

[38:32] and renting there's a direct

[38:34] causation relationship between

[38:36] state rental vouchers federal

[38:38] rental vouchers and the

[38:40] competition it creates in the

[38:42] market that it sets when it

[38:44] comes to rental units in the

[38:46] private sector that was just

[38:48] dealing with a client just the

[38:50] other day ine unit property all

[38:51] of them

[38:54] not all of them e of the ine are

[38:57] backed by government vouchers

[38:57] and

[39:01] he was talking about the current

[39:02] owner was talking about this the

[39:04] market the number that I'm

[39:05] charging is higher than the

[39:05] actual market would be

[39:08] because of the guaranteed number

[39:10] that the government's presenting

[39:12] so it's an interesting challenge

[39:14] that we have because we want

[39:16] folks to get it but when we do

[39:18] that we then the person that

[39:20] doesn't qualify for this has to

[39:22] pay more so it's worthy of a

[39:24] conversation to be had I want to

[39:25] say this

[39:25] delaware is unique

[39:29] that400ousand dollars number

[39:34] is an accurate number but you

[39:36] have to unpack it because of

[39:38] what you said you have folks

[39:40] coming down paying cash having

[39:42] the affordability problem not be

[39:44] theirs that's why you don't see

[39:46] gross stopping you would expect

[39:48] it to stop when we moved to a4%

[39:51] the argument was it was going to

[39:51] shut down development

[39:53] le ar ly that didn't happen

[39:56] so the fear factor of shutting

[39:58] it down isn't there because you

[40:01] have retirees coming in fueling

[40:02] the market but what is under

[40:04] that are people in delaware that

[40:06] can't afford the market now and

[40:10] so how do you fix it and and

[40:10] I really think that getting

[40:11] after it with the

[40:14] you know the first time

[40:15] homebuyers especially is really

[40:15] key

[40:18] making sure that folks are

[40:20] educated when it means to rent

[40:23] and setting up other means of

[40:24] building wealth until they're

[40:27] ready sometimes that wealth is

[40:30] developing a savings account so

[40:32] that they have a higher down

[40:34] payment that includes a pmI

[40:36] payoff20% these are all valuable

[40:38] things that a renter can

[40:39] actually get to

[40:42] so that when it's right when the

[40:44] time is right they're in a home

[40:44] that they want

[40:46] that they can then build

[40:48] an investment on because it

[40:49] takes a while

[40:51] to get to but that's education

[40:52] so

[40:54] anyway thank you

[41:02] so and speaking about the

[41:03] delaware

[41:06] that I've referred to sometimes

[41:06] the delaware market rate right

[41:10] there I have had conversations

[41:12] with property owners some some

[41:14] realtors around what it would

[41:16] look like to have like a cost

[41:18] disclosure again if if if costs

[41:20] for the owner is going up and

[41:22] we're saying hey it's unfair

[41:23] people are raising their prices

[41:25] too high and there needs to be a

[41:28] cap right but then we hear from

[41:29] the owners we we can't afford a

[41:30] cat because our prices are going

[41:32] up but then when we talk about

[41:34] well how do we figure out a

[41:36] delaware market rate and have a

[41:38] space where you disclose what

[41:38] your costs are to show

[41:40] that you're not just gouging

[41:42] folks people don't want that

[41:44] either and so like I I don't

[41:45] know I'm not putting you on the

[41:46] spot to have that answer but I

[41:48] do just want to throw out there

[41:50] that there is that space of

[41:51] trying to strike that balance

[41:53] knowing where you know how do we

[41:54] make sure we're protecting the

[41:56] property owner as well as the

[41:58] person who is renting or

[42:00] eventually going to own how

[42:02] do we make it so that it's

[42:04] actually delawareans dri driving

[42:05] up the costs and not

[42:06] corporations buying singlefamily

[42:08] homes or people coming from out

[42:08] of state

[42:12] purchasing homes as rental

[42:14] properties and not actually

[42:16] intending to live here you know

[42:18] what are the s where are the

[42:19] spaces where we can create that

[42:20] balance is something that I

[42:21] think is important kind of

[42:23] outside the purview of this task

[42:25] force but definitely things

[42:26] that we should be attacking and

[42:27] and appreciate you bringing

[42:28] that forward

[42:31] any other questions just good

[42:32] conversations for September3rd

[42:34] all right thank you so much

[42:44] next up we oh

[43:05] I thought we were upstairs and

[43:07] we were kind of chill upstairs

[43:14] moving on to the next agenda

[43:17] item housing alliance delaware

[43:22] and again fifteenin presentation

[43:22] followed by a question and

[43:23] answer

[43:28] Good morning

[43:32] the looks like a person there

[43:34] you go your name and position

[43:36] for the record please thank you

[43:38] for having me my name is Rachel

[43:38] Stucker I'm the director of

[43:41] Housing alliance Delaware we are

[43:43] a statewide nonprofit

[43:46] organization that works to

[43:48] address the issues of affordable

[43:49] housing and homelessness I

[43:50] appreciate the opportunity to

[43:50] come in

[43:52] talk with you all today. I

[43:54] really focused my presentation

[43:55] around a lot of the questions

[43:56] that were asked just about who

[43:58] we are and what we do and who we

[43:59] work with and how we partner

[43:59] with folks in the community

[44:02] but if you'd like um'm happy

[44:04] to weigh in on price gouging and

[44:06] other legislative issues if

[44:09] you'd like my opinions on those

[44:12] things as well so I'll just

[44:13] start by talking about who we

[44:14] are as I said we're statewide

[44:16] we're fairly small we are

[44:19] about14 full-time staff.alf of

[44:20] those staff members are working

[44:22] in the homeless helpline program

[44:23] which I'll talk about

[44:26] and we were actually formed

[44:28] in2016 as a result of the

[44:30] merging of two existing

[44:33] nonprofit organizations prior

[44:35] to201ix some of you may be

[44:36] familiar with the

[44:36] homemelesslanning co.

[44:40] it was created specifically

[44:42] to address homelessness and in

[44:42] response to the way that the

[44:44] federal government had

[44:44] structured how it

[44:48] gives funding to local

[44:50] communities for homelessness so

[44:52] it was created to respond to the

[44:54] federal government's funding

[44:56] structure to create a local

[44:58] structure through which that

[44:59] funding could come to delaware

[45:00] so it was very specific and

[45:04] focused on on that task. The

[45:06] other nonprofit organization

[45:07] that was part of the merger was

[45:08] the delawarehousing coalition

[45:12] the delawarehousing coalition

[45:12] was much more active

[45:14] inentonusssex counties than the

[45:16] homeless planning co although

[45:17] technically the homeless

[45:18] planning council was statewide

[45:21] and members of those

[45:23] boards one of them sits sits

[45:23] with us here today

[45:28] umrector heckles at the time

[45:30] was on the board of the

[45:30] homelesslanning co iss that

[45:32] correct or was it the coalition

[45:34] OK decided that merging the

[45:36] two nonprofits would be a good

[45:38] idea to bring together thefoable

[45:40] housing and homelessness issues

[45:42] under in the nonprofit sector

[45:44] under one organization which is

[45:45] howhousing alliance delaware was

[45:45] created

[45:50] and so what we've been trying to

[45:51] do since2016 I think

[45:54] as with a lot of things covid

[45:55] has made those things a little

[45:58] well maybe a little behind where

[45:59] where I would have envisioned we

[46:00] would be by now but to take

[46:02] those two missions of ending

[46:04] homelessness and solving the

[46:04] affordable housing crisis and

[46:05] really

[46:08] work on those simultaneously

[46:09] together as we know they are

[46:09] connected

[46:11] so

[46:16] our primary focus of our work is

[46:18] things happening at the state

[46:19] level so but we do partner

[46:21] with national nonprofit

[46:22] organizations and national

[46:24] advocacy organizations that are

[46:25] working to advance affordable

[46:26] housing and solve homelessness

[46:28] like the national lowcomehousing

[46:29] coalition and the

[46:29] nationalinstand Homelessness

[46:34] we operate four core programs.

[46:34] I'm going to start with the one

[46:36] that's the most confusing just

[46:38] to get it out of the way at

[46:39] least I think it's the most

[46:42] confusing the delaware continuum

[46:44] of careregrame. so when you hear

[46:45] us use the language delaware

[46:46] have you guys heard us talk

[46:47] about the delaware continuing of

[46:48] care you know it OK we could

[46:51] be talking about one of three

[46:53] different things but they all

[46:54] kind of mean the same thing so

[46:56] the delaware continuum of care

[46:58] is a membership group that

[46:58] anyone can join you all are

[46:59] welcome to join if you'd like

[47:02] anyone can join and be a member

[47:03] of the delaware continuum of

[47:06] carere. it means that you are

[47:08] working to address homelessness

[47:10] in the state of delaware so we

[47:11] very specifically target

[47:12] outreach to make sure we're

[47:14] representing lots of different

[47:14] right we have folks from the

[47:16] beaver health system folks from

[47:19] the justice system folks

[47:22] from education rights folks

[47:22] working in homeless service

[47:24] provider organizations and

[47:25] shelter programs folks from

[47:26] local governments are all

[47:28] members of the delaware

[47:28] continuum of care we have

[47:29] quarterly meetings there's a

[47:29] board

[47:32] a volunteer board that is voted

[47:34] on by the members that governs

[47:36] that structure right and that

[47:37] makes decisions for the COC

[47:40] so we're talking about a

[47:41] membership group that is

[47:43] statewide when we talk about

[47:44] the COC we're also talking about

[47:46] the system of care for people

[47:47] experiencing homelessness

[47:48] throughout the state of delaware

[47:50] so sometimes we say well the

[47:52] delaware COc is achieving xy and

[47:54] z when it comes to homelessness

[47:55] or isn't achieving xy and z when

[47:56] it comes to homelessness and

[47:57] when we use it that way what

[47:58] we're really talking about is

[48:00] the anyone who's providing a

[48:00] service to people experiencing

[48:01] homelessness in delaware

[48:04] is considered to be part of the

[48:05] delaware continuum of care

[48:06] regardless of what money they

[48:07] get, regardless of whether they

[48:08] operate with public funds or

[48:10] private funds they're part of

[48:11] the system of care supporting

[48:12] people experiencing homelessness

[48:14] and so that's sometimes we use

[48:15] the COC in that way as well

[48:19] and then of course the federal

[48:21] funds that we are responsible

[48:24] for bringing to delaware to

[48:24] support the work to address

[48:25] homelessness are called

[48:27] continuum of care funds so those

[48:28] are administered at the federal

[48:30] level it is the largest single

[48:32] bucket of funds to address

[48:33] homelessness in delaware last

[48:34] year

[48:37] yeah last year our award

[48:40] was11.8 million dollars and we

[48:42] are currently in the process of

[48:43] working through trying to

[48:45] continue to retain those funds

[48:45] to serve Delawareans which

[48:48] here's the whole thing we can

[48:50] talk about if you'd like

[48:51] going on with those federal

[48:53] funds but we are what's

[48:54] called the COC lead

[48:56] collaborative applicants so we

[48:58] are the entity that is the only

[49:00] entity that is responsible for

[49:02] and allowed to apply for those

[49:03] federal funds every community

[49:04] has to select an entity that

[49:06] applies for those dollars. We do

[49:08] not touch the money we help

[49:10] coordinate how nonprofits can

[49:12] apply for that money. we have a

[49:13] funding committee and a process

[49:16] we submit an application on

[49:20] behalf of of delaware to hu and

[49:22] the funds flowhud makes the

[49:23] final award decisions and funds

[49:24] flow directly to those

[49:26] nonprofits so we are not the a

[49:28] pass through organization in

[49:29] that way I think a lot of people

[49:29] think that we are

[49:33] so that's one that can be a

[49:35] little confusing that's the

[49:35] delaware COC

[49:38] we also operate the coordinated

[49:40] entry program for the delaware

[49:44] continuum of carere that's

[49:44] known locally as centralized

[49:46] intake or the homeless helpline

[49:52] that's the18333in bed number

[49:55] and happy to answer any

[49:58] questions about that program but

[50:00] I do want to so folks who are

[50:01] experiencing homelessness or in

[50:02] need of assistance can call that

[50:04] number and we do our best to try

[50:06] to help them understand whatre

[50:06] resources are available

[50:10] in their community. I do want

[50:11] to and and in some cases we're

[50:13] able to refer folks to resources

[50:14] the we do have a homeless

[50:16] helpline website on our webpage

[50:18] that I want to make you aware of

[50:20] it is a full listing of all

[50:21] of the homeless assistance

[50:22] resources in the entire state of

[50:23] delaware

[50:26] it may not include like a small

[50:28] program at a church that

[50:30] sometimes has some funds for

[50:30] like back rent

[50:33] sometimes and sometimes doesn't

[50:35] right it's not that localized

[50:36] and that specific but if you

[50:38] want to know what programs exist

[50:39] regardless of funding source in

[50:41] the state of delaware to serve

[50:42] people experiencing homelessness

[50:44] it should be on our website if

[50:46] it's not please let us know. We

[50:48] try to send folks towards that

[50:50] site to help them identify

[50:52] potential shelter programs or

[50:52] rental assistance programs that

[50:53] can help them

[50:56] one of the biggest challenges

[50:58] with operating that program is

[51:01] that most of those places don't

[51:03] have resources most of the time

[51:03] when most people need them

[51:06] so that is the biggest challenge

[51:07] that we faced with that program

[51:10] the next is the CMIs program

[51:14] it's delaware's homemeless

[51:16] Management Informationystem I'm

[51:17] sorry really quickly before you

[51:19] go just making sure we're on the

[51:21] same slide that you're on wasn't

[51:25] was just talking so if you can

[51:27] you pay'm still on four core

[51:28] program I'm still on four core

[51:30] programs and jumping around. I

[51:33] apologize o core programs and

[51:34] then when you go to the next one

[51:35] if you could just say next slide

[51:37] that way we know you repi thank

[51:38] you

[51:42] so the CIs program is

[51:44] basically the database where

[51:47] most data about homelessness is

[51:48] captured and stored here in

[51:50] delaware as a condition of

[51:52] receiving federal funds to

[51:54] address homelessness every

[51:55] community and in this case it's

[51:56] the state of delaware or

[51:57] statewide have to have some type

[51:58] of data system that collects

[52:00] certain information about

[52:01] homelessness and reports that up

[52:03] to Hhud which then reports it to

[52:04] Congress which then influences

[52:07] federal allocation and policy

[52:08] so we manage that data system

[52:14] we train over150 to200 staff

[52:14] working in homeless assistance

[52:15] programs all over the state

[52:16] shelters transitional housing

[52:18] programs rapid rehousing

[52:20] programs every year to use

[52:22] that system we provide technical

[52:24] assistance we have a you know

[52:26] self training portal we have a

[52:28] technical assistant staff so

[52:29] we're responsible for managing

[52:31] that data system as well and we

[52:32] can pull a lot of information

[52:34] out of that and then there's a

[52:34] lot of information we can't pull

[52:36] out of that so I always tell

[52:38] folks please reach out if you

[52:39] have questions about

[52:39] homelessness

[52:41] that you and we may or may not

[52:42] be able to provide you with an

[52:43] answer depending on if it's data

[52:44] that we capture in that system

[52:48] and then the next is policy and

[52:50] community education. this is

[52:52] where you all probably see us

[52:53] most out in the community we

[52:54] do have staff who work to

[52:57] educate the community support

[53:00] advocacy facilitate we

[53:00] facilitate the

[53:02] delawareffordablehousing

[53:02] coalitionroup and

[53:04] theusssexhousingroup through

[53:04] our policy and community

[53:06] education programme and I'm

[53:08] happy to answer any questions

[53:08] about those two particular

[53:09] groups of folks would like to

[53:10] know more

[53:11] ex t slide

[53:16] next slide

[53:22] wesley should have been more

[53:26] organized and were talking ok

[53:29] so as an organization so some

[53:30] questions were asked so most of

[53:32] our funds are federal

[53:33] followed by state funds and then

[53:35] private dollars and donations so

[53:36] the work that we do for the

[53:38] coordinated entry program the

[53:40] COC program the CIs3 out of four

[53:42] of our programs do rely

[53:44] heavily on federal dollars but

[53:45] we do get support from the state

[53:46] and others as well for those

[53:49] programs as I said we're

[53:50] about14 staff

[53:54] statewide and we none of what we

[53:55] do happens

[53:58] without partnering with others

[53:58] so across all of our programs

[54:00] even though like the day to day

[54:01] work of the three people working

[54:02] on the data system is very

[54:04] different than the day to day

[54:06] work of Sonia for example hi Soa

[54:09] that works very different

[54:11] it all is happening in

[54:12] partnership with people across

[54:13] the community in a lot of

[54:14] different ways and so that's how

[54:16] everything's really connected

[54:16] and it's all that focused on

[54:17] on our mission

[54:23] so for example with CMIS as I

[54:25] said we have over10200 or so

[54:28] users of the system representing

[54:30] I think about40 organizations

[54:32] throughout the state entering

[54:33] data about homelessness into the

[54:34] system tracking client outcomes

[54:36] tracking program outcomes and

[54:36] our staff are talking to their

[54:40] staff all the time every day

[54:41] and then we also do work for

[54:42] example with

[54:43] theusssexhousingroup where again

[54:44] it's a membership group of folks

[54:46] in Sussex County specifically

[54:47] interested in and focusing on

[54:48] affordable housing in Sussex

[54:50] County so those two things are

[54:51] very different but the

[54:52] whole point of both of those

[54:53] things is to be bringing people

[54:55] together to try to move things

[54:56] forward when it comes to

[54:57] homelessness and affordable

[54:57] housing

[55:00] to answer the question about

[55:02] our collaboration with DSHA and

[55:04] state partners we collaborate

[55:06] quite closely DSHA does

[55:07] provide some funding to support

[55:08] our work as the COC lead agency

[55:11] some operating dollars that

[55:14] are very helpful we also work

[55:15] closely with DSHA to inform

[55:17] homelessness policy and efforts

[55:20] across groups the DSHA for

[55:22] many years since I can remember

[55:23] I've been working in some way

[55:26] with this organization or its

[55:27] parent nonprofits for a

[55:29] little over12 years has always

[55:30] participated in the governance

[55:32] of the of housing alliance in

[55:32] terms of sitting on the board

[55:34] the governance of the continuum

[55:36] of care delaware state

[55:38] housing Authority staff sit on

[55:38] the funding committee of the

[55:39] delaware continuum of

[55:41] care to help make local funding

[55:42] decisions when we're applying

[55:44] for federal dollars and then we

[55:46] also participate in a lot of

[55:48] DSHA's initiatives I was on

[55:50] the or am on the interagency

[55:51] collaborative to end

[55:52] homelessness and served on

[55:53] theffordable housing task force

[55:56] so we work closely withdSHA

[55:58] we also work closely withdHSs

[56:00] but I would say there's room to

[56:02] grow there happy to talk more

[56:05] about that I think one of our

[56:06] biggest challenges and I'm

[56:06] really focusing on homelessness

[56:08] here because I know you've had a

[56:09] lot of other presenters

[56:09] talking

[56:11] about housing and affordable

[56:12] housing in different ways

[56:16] homeless assistant funding is

[56:18] well this past year was the

[56:19] largest it's ever been which is

[56:20] wonderful at the state level in

[56:22] terms of the state allocation

[56:24] between and and half million I

[56:26] think for homeless services in

[56:27] terms of what's allocated by the

[56:28] state and then plus what DSHA

[56:29] puts forward for the homeme for

[56:30] good program

[56:34] but it is scattered across a

[56:36] lot of divisions DHSs

[56:39] divisions DSHA then there's

[56:42] thehucdBgSG juris jurisdictions

[56:42] and the hu money that's flowing

[56:44] through those jurisdictions and

[56:45] then there's the COC money so

[56:46] similar to what you're talking

[56:48] about when it comes to housing

[56:50] issues broadly I think we have a

[56:51] similar challenge with the

[56:52] homelessness system the way

[56:54] the funding is distributed who

[56:55] controls what funding and it's

[56:57] not all aligned towards like the

[56:59] same goals so it's very

[57:00] common to hear someone who's

[57:01] working to address homelessness

[57:03] in the community say well this

[57:06] one funder says that I have to

[57:07] be focusing on employment and

[57:08] they want to see that everyone

[57:10] I'm working with is getting some

[57:11] type of employment but this

[57:12] other other funder that's

[57:14] funding the exact same program

[57:15] is focused on these other

[57:16] outcomes and I have to show them

[57:17] these other outcomes and how do

[57:18] I do both with my limited

[57:20] capacity and so one thing that I

[57:23] know that we and a lot of the

[57:24] homeless service providers would

[57:27] appreciate is a funder

[57:28] collaborative of some kind a way

[57:29] that those dollars and the

[57:30] people administering those

[57:31] dollars come together

[57:34] to make clear decisions about

[57:34] like what our priorities and

[57:36] goals are so that things are

[57:37] aligned and the providers who

[57:39] are doing this work know what's

[57:40] expected of them and and what to

[57:42] do and and how to move forward

[57:43] with getting the good outcomes

[57:44] for the people they're working

[57:46] with. so that would be one of

[57:48] our biggest challenges locally I

[57:49] think when it comes to making

[57:50] progress in addressing

[57:50] homelessness

[57:53] aside from the fact that we need

[57:53] more affordable housing and

[57:54] funding

[57:58] that's all I plan to share

[58:02] I could talk for a really long

[58:04] time about everything I

[58:06] mentioned som'm going to stop

[58:06] before before I do that

[58:12] Senator Hoffman thank you Rachel

[58:12] I think you've been in this

[58:14] space for about15 years maybe20

[58:17] years you've always been in this

[58:18] building since I've been in this

[58:18] building

[58:22] so one of the goals we wanted to

[58:23] do was have a system that

[58:26] everything's talking to each

[58:27] other but

[58:29] as we're hearing different

[58:30] people talk wouldn't it be

[58:32] better to have a system that's

[58:34] working in the background

[58:36] because when you're dealing with

[58:37] somebody who's homeless you also

[58:38] know they need medical care

[58:39] mental health care

[58:42] and then if the housing

[58:44] authority sees this that they

[58:46] have all these other needs then

[58:48] they could figure out like if we

[58:49] had something in the background

[58:50] and everybody was talking to

[58:52] each other we know the same

[58:54] person didn't call you and

[58:56] called the housing authority so

[58:57] we could start putting the

[58:58] pieces together. I don't know if

[59:00] we're going to be able to fund

[59:01] something that's out in the

[59:02] public but if we had something

[59:04] in the background working

[59:05] wouldn't that help out some of

[59:05] the agencies

[59:08] don't I'm so don't totally know

[59:10] what you mean by something in

[59:12] the backgroundd calls you

[59:16] you type in Fred's name now you

[59:18] saw on your screen but the

[59:20] public can't see it that Fred

[59:22] also called DHSs he called the

[59:24] housing authority also called

[59:25] local charities

[59:28] yes and then we could start

[59:31] pinpointing he's in a a crisis

[59:33] moment he's calling everyone

[59:36] yeah so is it fair to say you're

[59:37] asking kind of about data

[59:38] sharing on the back end so that

[59:40] we can see patterns of service

[59:42] usage and everyone's

[59:44] coordinating right yes so yes

[59:46] that would be great so yeah

[59:50] you said Fred Fredrank rank Fred

[59:52] the fly what's happening right

[59:54] now if we did a data share if

[59:55] we did a data match if we had

[59:56] our HMIS data and

[1:00:00] let's say Department of justice

[1:00:04] data and medicaid data and state

[1:00:06] serviceent data and we put all

[1:00:07] of that together we'd probably

[1:00:10] see almost every person in HMIs

[1:00:12] is being served by one of those

[1:00:13] systems as well or has touched

[1:00:14] one of those systems as well

[1:00:17] and yes I do think that would be

[1:00:18] extremely helpful so there are

[1:00:20] other in terms of figuring out

[1:00:22] how to actually solve people's

[1:00:22] problems

[1:00:26] I'll use Allegheny County as an

[1:00:30] example as as a community

[1:00:31] that has done this extremely

[1:00:32] well and they're very well known

[1:00:34] for this they actuallyu they did

[1:00:37] that and they created a this

[1:00:37] is how they decide

[1:00:40] of people experiencing

[1:00:41] homelessness in Allegheny

[1:00:41] countunty.

[1:00:44] there is not enough as we know

[1:00:46] housing resources to get people

[1:00:48] into housing and get the support

[1:00:50] they need services they need

[1:00:50] quickly

[1:00:52] so communities all over the

[1:00:54] country have to decide who gets

[1:00:55] what housing and when and it's

[1:00:56] not fun that's part of what we

[1:00:58] do at coordinated entry and it's

[1:01:02] not enjoyable at all to

[1:01:02] decide this person gets it and

[1:01:03] this person doesn't but there

[1:01:04] isn't enough

[1:01:06] so we're making those decisions

[1:01:08] every day what they have done is

[1:01:10] really put likes medical data

[1:01:12] hospital data department of

[1:01:14] justice data HMIs data together

[1:01:17] and seeing this person is the

[1:01:19] person who is in the hospital

[1:01:20] every few days for this chronic

[1:01:23] health condition on medicaid da

[1:01:24] da da da da we're gonna to

[1:01:24] prioritize this person for the

[1:01:26] next available supportive

[1:01:28] housing unit so there are ways

[1:01:30] that that data doesn't just

[1:01:31] function in the background as

[1:01:33] not that that's what you meant

[1:01:34] but as like for research it's

[1:01:36] used to make real world

[1:01:37] decisions about trying to get

[1:01:38] the most vulnerable people

[1:01:41] connected to the services I

[1:01:42] noticed that oh well

[1:01:46] secretckhockles knows this on

[1:01:47] when the tornado hit

[1:01:51] we there were three of us on the

[1:01:52] street talking to different

[1:01:54] people and then I was like oh

[1:01:55] you're great for interfaith I go

[1:01:56] run and get the women from

[1:01:58] interfaith they may see each

[1:01:58] other and they're like no we

[1:02:00] can't take that person we know

[1:02:01] that person

[1:02:02] they already went through our

[1:02:04] services and we can't that would

[1:02:06] have saved so much time if we

[1:02:08] had even on our phones some way

[1:02:10] of figuring it out than us

[1:02:11] running around the street

[1:02:13] calling Secretary heckles hey do

[1:02:14] you have this name do you have

[1:02:17] that name? so it was a lot of us

[1:02:18] I think the tornado really

[1:02:20] showed that we do need something

[1:02:22] in the background for the most

[1:02:26] vulnerable absolutely that makes

[1:02:26] sense

[1:02:28] and can I just respond to one of

[1:02:29] the last things you said

[1:02:33] because it gives me an

[1:02:34] opportunity to say I think

[1:02:36] focusing on people's immediate

[1:02:38] needs is really really important

[1:02:40] sheltercri services but that

[1:02:42] will never solve someone's

[1:02:44] homelessness it will it is a

[1:02:46] very important band aid that

[1:02:47] stops very

[1:02:52] not ok bleeding right so I'm not

[1:02:53] saying it's not important but

[1:02:54] really focusing

[1:02:58] a lot of effort on trying to

[1:02:58] figure out how to like fix the

[1:03:00] whole shelter system and why

[1:03:02] this person can't get into there

[1:03:03] but they can't get into there

[1:03:08] I think efforts would be better

[1:03:09] focusing on how to get folks to

[1:03:12] housing and services not that

[1:03:13] it's not important but I think

[1:03:14] if there's a choice that's the

[1:03:16] one we would choose to focus on

[1:03:19] it it was a lot last week and

[1:03:20] then out of all the people we

[1:03:22] talked to we only I think we

[1:03:24] only got like three people into

[1:03:26] more of a program that at the

[1:03:29] end of ix0 days they'll be able

[1:03:30] to and am so sorry to be clear I

[1:03:32] was not talking about in the

[1:03:34] case of a natural disaster I was

[1:03:34] talking that but that

[1:03:36] brought that to light to the

[1:03:38] general public of what is

[1:03:39] actually going on right

[1:03:44] any other questions

[1:03:46] deputy secretary shepherd

[1:03:49] thank you madam chairir Hi

[1:03:50] Rachel

[1:03:52] one quick question and then

[1:03:54] just to follow up on something

[1:03:56] you mentioned iss the homeless

[1:03:58] helpline is that staffed after

[1:04:00] hours and on weekends it is not

[1:04:02] so that is you know something

[1:04:03] from the state service center

[1:04:04] side that I will hear

[1:04:08] occasionally is it's4:30 on a

[1:04:09] Friday. I've just had this

[1:04:11] family walk in they're homeless

[1:04:13] they need something and we call

[1:04:16] and and there's nothing there

[1:04:16] and I I don't know quite how to

[1:04:17] sol

[1:04:20] ve that other than using to the

[1:04:22] extent we can our hotel voucher

[1:04:24] to at least get that family in

[1:04:26] as quickly as possible and then

[1:04:28] try to work to maybe the back

[1:04:30] end onmon or or whatnot when

[1:04:32] they come back so are there

[1:04:34] any maybe plans or thought to

[1:04:38] how we might solve that after

[1:04:41] hours kind of issue yeah so

[1:04:44] I guess a couple of things so in

[1:04:46] delaware we do not have any

[1:04:46] shelters that are willing to

[1:04:50] take people at any time ums a

[1:04:52] lot of larger cities have

[1:04:52] shelters that are24/7 they'll

[1:04:54] like find someone on the street

[1:04:56] at2 a.m. who clearly needs

[1:04:56] shelter and the police will call

[1:04:58] and then they can pick them up

[1:05:00] and bring them to the24/7

[1:05:01] shelter. we don't have that in

[1:05:02] delaware there are some shelters

[1:05:04] that are willing to take people

[1:05:05] after hours in special

[1:05:05] circumstances

[1:05:08] if they have an opening when a

[1:05:08] police officer calls or

[1:05:10] something like that is

[1:05:11] happening but

[1:05:15] I think the first thing to

[1:05:18] figure out is how to increase

[1:05:19] the capacity of our shelter

[1:05:20] programs to allow for easier

[1:05:22] access

[1:05:24] we there are shelters so

[1:05:29] so that's number one2 about a

[1:05:29] little over a year ago

[1:05:32] we made a change at the

[1:05:33] homeless helpline we do not make

[1:05:34] direct referrals to most

[1:05:36] shelters in the state anymore

[1:05:36] because it just wasn't working

[1:05:40] so to your staff I would just

[1:05:41] say they can just call the they

[1:05:42] can and should just be calling

[1:05:42] the shelters directly and saying

[1:05:44] do you have any openings can you

[1:05:46] take this family they do not

[1:05:48] have to come through us in order

[1:05:49] to make that referral unless

[1:05:50] there's like central intake is

[1:05:52] no longer it's no longer central

[1:05:53] intake so this is why we've been

[1:05:56] trying to rework reframing it as

[1:05:58] the homeless helpline the

[1:05:59] access to emergency shel

[1:06:02] ter is no longer centralized.

[1:06:02] there are a couple of shelters

[1:06:04] in the state that will still

[1:06:06] only accept referrals from us

[1:06:06] because they preferred it that

[1:06:08] way but at this point we're

[1:06:10] primarily telling people here's

[1:06:12] other places to go here's other

[1:06:12] phone numbers to call

[1:06:14] we're always sending people to

[1:06:16] the state service centers so

[1:06:18] that's the other thing I

[1:06:20] would say is just because we're

[1:06:22] not the phone isn't operating

[1:06:24] doesn't mean you can't reach out

[1:06:25] and then your staff can't reach

[1:06:26] out and try to access shelter

[1:06:26] programs

[1:06:29] it's always been the case

[1:06:29] that folks could get into

[1:06:30] shelter after hours if there was

[1:06:32] shelter available we did at

[1:06:34] one point like the when we were

[1:06:36] closed you could just walk in

[1:06:38] like we never said like don't

[1:06:40] take people in after hours so

[1:06:40] that was also always the case

[1:06:41] after hours generally

[1:06:44] so but first I would focus on

[1:06:46] actually making resources

[1:06:47] available to folks who need them

[1:06:49] nights and weekends

[1:06:52] and then you did make a a

[1:06:54] comment about there being room

[1:06:58] to grow withdHSs so if that's

[1:07:00] a conversation you want to have

[1:07:01] outside of this then happy to

[1:07:02] set something up with you and

[1:07:04] and talk through that yeah that

[1:07:04] would be great

[1:07:06] heckles just back to the

[1:07:10] sort of open and closed hours

[1:07:14] even if you're closed do you

[1:07:16] have an ability to know when

[1:07:17] someone called I mean it's I

[1:07:20] guess I'm trying to decide or or

[1:07:22] figure out a message and yeah we

[1:07:24] use a phone call system similar

[1:07:24] to like211 we'll see what time

[1:07:26] the call came in they can leave

[1:07:28] a message theirir phone number's

[1:07:29] there etc but

[1:07:30] but we don't get back to them

[1:07:32] until the following even meaning

[1:07:33] to ask you and just haven't

[1:07:34] gotten to it yet but

[1:07:39] the2fohour nature of it you know

[1:07:41] is that something that is you

[1:07:42] know more necessary in a place

[1:07:43] like Philadelphia and New York

[1:07:44] City

[1:07:46] DC and you know out

[1:07:49] because the cost would be

[1:07:50] substantial to triple

[1:07:54] essentially or more the the

[1:07:55] amount of time that you're

[1:07:58] you're the service is open

[1:07:59] and if that's to catch a couple

[1:08:02] of people who you know a a

[1:08:03] year that might not be worth it

[1:08:04] but

[1:08:08] that so that that would be

[1:08:09] interesting to know if we have

[1:08:10] any any sort of data that says

[1:08:12] you know listen there are you

[1:08:13] know 1000 people who called

[1:08:14] after hours last year that would

[1:08:15] be a different conversation than

[1:08:16] if there are two

[1:08:18] that makes sense

[1:08:22] yeah the other thing I will say

[1:08:24] is if there's interest in

[1:08:25] something like that being

[1:08:26] open24/7 you know as you just

[1:08:27] said

[1:08:30] there has to be something to

[1:08:32] tell people or to offer people

[1:08:34] and currently even during the

[1:08:35] day there's very little to offer

[1:08:36] people so often what's happening

[1:08:38] when folks are calling us is

[1:08:38] they're we're giving them a

[1:08:40] phone number or like you're a

[1:08:42] single male in dover called over

[1:08:44] interface called wherever

[1:08:46] shepherd's place still kind of

[1:08:48] asking

[1:08:49] sort of also asking as we

[1:08:49] develop the

[1:08:52] you know processes and policies

[1:08:53] and procedures and mode of

[1:08:54] operation of the hopepe centers

[1:08:56] in inkentonusssex counties is

[1:08:58] that is that a piece of that

[1:08:59] that we need to

[1:09:04] emphasize or not don't and you

[1:09:05] know that's a like to see

[1:09:07] data and and and even if you

[1:09:10] guys have it that you know I

[1:09:11] presume at some point the state

[1:09:12] service center's closed too and

[1:09:13] they may not know so it's sort

[1:09:14] of like how do you know what you

[1:09:17] don't know if they can't reach

[1:09:18] service centers and you don't

[1:09:19] know that they're trying to

[1:09:21] reach us to to get housing if

[1:09:23] they're not able to you know

[1:09:24] call and you don't know if they

[1:09:25] left a message that you know so

[1:09:28] between us like how can we fill

[1:09:30] in the gaps and find out you

[1:09:32] know how much after hours time

[1:09:34] people really need the

[1:09:35] service it would be interesting

[1:09:39] so having worked in the

[1:09:40] delaware system for quite some

[1:09:43] time. I don't think it is a

[1:09:44] great use of resources to focus

[1:09:46] on expanding to24 hours mainly

[1:09:47] because

[1:09:52] if people suddenly without

[1:09:53] knowing it are becoming homeless

[1:09:53] in the middle of the night

[1:09:58] not always but frequently there

[1:10:00] is some police involvement and

[1:10:02] police often then are like that

[1:10:04] frontline worker who who knows

[1:10:06] the shelter down the street and

[1:10:08] it or has them work with a DV

[1:10:11] hotline to address the problem

[1:10:14] people have housingcuries and

[1:10:16] become homeless all the time but

[1:10:18] it's somewhat rare for someone

[1:10:20] to suddenly without any warning

[1:10:22] lose their housing in the middle

[1:10:23] of the night. I just wanted

[1:10:23] that's usually not not

[1:10:26] how it's happening

[1:10:26] right

[1:10:30] not that it never happens but

[1:10:34] playing director Edji

[1:10:38] yeah hi Rachel I'm just curious

[1:10:39] you moved away from the

[1:10:40] centralized intake to sort of

[1:10:42] more of a navigator role I'm

[1:10:44] sure there's a story about why

[1:10:45] that happened and you know it

[1:10:46] just would seem

[1:10:48] would seem like you know we're

[1:10:50] trying to organize things you

[1:10:50] know moving to a more

[1:10:51] centralized thing would be

[1:10:52] an option

[1:10:54] but but they're they're they're

[1:10:56] you know just briefly like

[1:10:58] what's the story and there's

[1:11:00] this new system of kind of a

[1:11:02] navigator role has that been

[1:11:04] more effective than the previous

[1:11:04] way you were doing it just

[1:11:06] curious yeah that's a really

[1:11:07] great question

[1:11:10] so there is a story and I'm

[1:11:11] going to make it short

[1:11:16] I would say that there's a

[1:11:16] couple main reasons why the

[1:11:18] centralized shelter access

[1:11:21] wasn't working

[1:11:24] one was that there was no

[1:11:28] what I talked about earlier

[1:11:29] there were no standard

[1:11:30] expectations for how programs

[1:11:33] would operate so some programs

[1:11:34] wouldn't take people in after2

[1:11:36] pm. because they didn't have

[1:11:38] enough staff. some programs

[1:11:40] wouldn't take people who were

[1:11:41] being exited from psychiatric

[1:11:43] facilities because they didn't

[1:11:44] have more than seve days' worth

[1:11:46] of their psych meds and they

[1:11:47] were concerned about that some

[1:11:50] places wouldn't take people like

[1:11:52] every place operates differently

[1:11:54] and so the idea of trying and

[1:11:56] there was no one entity that was

[1:11:57] respo

[1:11:58] n s ible for setting some basic

[1:12:02] right I'm not talking about some

[1:12:02] basic like this is how we're all

[1:12:06] going to operate so that when I

[1:12:07] think to your point Senator

[1:12:09] Hofner when you're with rank and

[1:12:10] you're like there's an open bed

[1:12:12] here for single men that that

[1:12:14] match results in rank getting

[1:12:16] that bed so what we were

[1:12:17] spending a lot of time doing was

[1:12:18] trying to get rank into the bed

[1:12:20] for single men and rank was not

[1:12:21] getting into the bed for single

[1:12:22] men

[1:12:24] and so it really was like

[1:12:26] hamster on a wheel

[1:12:28] the other thing

[1:12:32] I will say is lack of resources

[1:12:34] on the shelter program side is a

[1:12:36] huge part of why everyone

[1:12:38] operates so differently as well.

[1:12:40] people have to make do with

[1:12:41] what they have and oftentimes a

[1:12:42] lot of these programs are

[1:12:44] operating with volunteer support

[1:12:46] on donations from local you know

[1:12:46] churches or other faith

[1:12:48] communities and they don't

[1:12:52] the capacity to have that type

[1:12:54] of structure in a way that lends

[1:12:56] itself to like a really truly

[1:12:57] centralized or coordinated

[1:12:58] system is really challenging for

[1:12:58] folks

[1:13:02] so very poorly resourced system

[1:13:03] without

[1:13:06] a set of standards that we

[1:13:08] were kind of trying to force

[1:13:10] people to abide by but we don't

[1:13:12] fund them so it wasn't going

[1:13:13] well

[1:13:16] can't tell them what to do

[1:13:18] SenatorBuxton

[1:13:24] thank you and I appreciated the

[1:13:24] conversation it helps maybe

[1:13:26] get some clarity in what I'm

[1:13:27] thinking

[1:13:30] I appreciate your position I'm

[1:13:32] not in your seat so I have to

[1:13:32] respect the fact that you're

[1:13:34] doing this daily so I'm in the

[1:13:36] cheap seats or maybe I'm in my

[1:13:37] senate seat dealing with

[1:13:40] different situations from time

[1:13:41] to time

[1:13:44] but I'm challenged with what

[1:13:45] you're saying in the

[1:13:47] decentralization of it and I

[1:13:48] want to make sure I understand

[1:13:50] that she used the gentleman will

[1:13:51] call him rank

[1:13:52] and you were looking for

[1:13:57] where it is that you could place

[1:13:58] him and at the end of the day

[1:14:00] you were using up resources to

[1:14:02] find out that you couldn't place

[1:14:02] him there that was your

[1:14:04] reasoning for not doing that

[1:14:06] what happens to Frank if you're

[1:14:08] not there iss he doing it iss he

[1:14:09] the one that's struggling to

[1:14:11] find it on his own and and ends

[1:14:11] up in the same space you are

[1:14:15] yeah yeah so that that's the

[1:14:16] system and that has to stop I

[1:14:19] agree100% that has to stop

[1:14:22] because10 for you to say and no

[1:14:24] disrespect to you but for me to

[1:14:26] say I'll give you this scenario

[1:14:28] wasn't it was a little while ago

[1:14:30] I like to walk talk on my phone

[1:14:32] I'm down at the library if you

[1:14:33] don't know the library there's a

[1:14:34] lot of folks who are challenged

[1:14:36] with life that sit out there and

[1:14:38] so I'll be texting I'll just

[1:14:40] take it in this young man walks

[1:14:41] up he's got a little child2 3

[1:14:41] years old he's probably3

[1:14:43] 32 and I overhear

[1:14:46] overhear him he is distressed

[1:14:48] he's panicked he's on the phone

[1:14:51] he's he's arguing with someone

[1:14:52] because he hasn't gotten

[1:14:54] callbacks he doesn't know what

[1:14:55] to do and so ask him what's up

[1:14:58] come talk to me for a second he

[1:15:00] ends up upstairs fortunately I

[1:15:02] was able to call somebody

[1:15:03] because I'm a senator

[1:15:06] who was able to get somebody to

[1:15:07] pick up the phone

[1:15:09] and what I learned was this guy

[1:15:10] had just been released from the

[1:15:12] department oforrections. the

[1:15:14] mother of the child was in a

[1:15:16] hospital in a heroin induced

[1:15:18] coma of sorts and what's there

[1:15:19] is this

[1:15:22] this child

[1:15:26] he doesn't want any of this and

[1:15:27] a state that's saying

[1:15:28] I don't know what to tell you

[1:15:30] go find a tree in a tent

[1:15:35] and just we got to fix that that

[1:15:38] part so I argue about a system

[1:15:41] that I try to use right so in

[1:15:43] that I'm literally invested in

[1:15:44] the system we have

[1:15:46] while at the same time I'm

[1:15:47] complaining about the system

[1:15:48] that we have

[1:15:50] and so I hope that's our mission

[1:15:51] as we

[1:15:54] look at a hopepe center and we

[1:15:56] look at dealing with housing

[1:15:56] I've argued 1000 times

[1:15:59] that we've got to have a system

[1:15:59] that looks at

[1:16:02] housing the healthy and

[1:16:04] sheltering the sick

[1:16:06] because they are two different

[1:16:07] things

[1:16:10] and finding a robust system to

[1:16:12] treat the sick while also having

[1:16:14] the ability to lift up those

[1:16:14] that are

[1:16:18] not that are not housed but are

[1:16:19] capable of it

[1:16:20] two different systems you

[1:16:23] that's not fair because all I'm

[1:16:23] doing is just

[1:16:26] talking I'm not helping you but

[1:16:28] I want to help if you guys if we

[1:16:29] can work together I want to help

[1:16:32] 24 hours if we got to put

[1:16:33] somebody on call

[1:16:36] I don't know maybe we don't need

[1:16:37] a whole branch of government

[1:16:40] open but maybe we we we pay

[1:16:40] construction workers every

[1:16:43] single day to be on call when

[1:16:44] we've got some sort of whatever

[1:16:46] in the middle of the night let's

[1:16:48] pay a couple of folks that can

[1:16:48] just pick up the phone cause I

[1:16:49] don't want my staff

[1:16:52] to have to be the one and I

[1:16:54] don't want Frank to be given

[1:16:55] numbers it's when I talk to

[1:16:57] folks in about what it means to

[1:16:58] be a good public servant one of

[1:16:59] the things they always say is

[1:17:00] this

[1:17:02] never give someone a number to

[1:17:04] call when you can call for them

[1:17:05] they've called you for help

[1:17:07] you can the least you can do

[1:17:10] so let me see if I can help you

[1:17:12] out here expect a call back if

[1:17:14] you don't get one text me or

[1:17:16] text my my help ammy we need to

[1:17:18] build that type of system right

[1:17:20] if we can right or and if we

[1:17:21] can't build it in that's

[1:17:22] entirety where can we build it

[1:17:23] that works

[1:17:29] no offense 10% agree with almost

[1:17:29] everything you said

[1:17:34] I do think that folks who are

[1:17:36] sick can be or as housable as

[1:17:38] folks who are well so maybe we

[1:17:40] can talk about that more offline

[1:17:42] I don't think that there need

[1:17:44] to be two separate systems for

[1:17:46] folks who need treatment and

[1:17:48] help and those who don't I think

[1:17:49] everybody can be successful in

[1:17:50] housing with the right services

[1:17:52] and supports which is part of

[1:17:53] the issue

[1:17:56] but I will also say I100% agree

[1:17:58] with you I don't think that the

[1:18:00] way that the system is working

[1:18:00] right now is the way it should

[1:18:04] work I am a member of the

[1:18:05] intergency collaborative

[1:18:08] umrector heckel is the chair of

[1:18:09] the coordinated entry there's a

[1:18:10] whole subcommittee that's

[1:18:11] looking at coordinated entry

[1:18:13] this wholes how do people access

[1:18:15] know how to access get help

[1:18:16] accessing get help navigating

[1:18:18] resources that are there for

[1:18:20] people who are homeless and what

[1:18:22] I am hoping and looking at

[1:18:22] the chair that we will get

[1:18:23] out of

[1:18:26] that is a really a dedication to

[1:18:27] redesign and rethink how the

[1:18:30] whole thing works my staff

[1:18:31] who were answering the phone the

[1:18:32] state service center staff who

[1:18:33] are trying to help people

[1:18:35] navigate you at the library who

[1:18:36] are it doesn't work for anybody

[1:18:38] it's not working for anybody and

[1:18:39] most importantly not the person

[1:18:42] who needs the help so I agree

[1:18:42] and'm'm really hopeful we can

[1:18:43] put something different

[1:18:44] together.

[1:18:48] any other questions from me

[1:18:52] committee I have a a couple

[1:18:56] the idea of a rental housing

[1:18:57] registry has come up a lot I've

[1:18:57] been

[1:19:00] working around it I think you

[1:19:02] have a little bit or a couple

[1:19:04] others just curious for you

[1:19:07] what your perspective is on it

[1:19:08] what would it look like what

[1:19:09] would be its purpose?

[1:19:20] I brought this up didn't I? yeah

[1:19:24] I'm the one that brought this up

[1:19:24] didn't

[1:19:26] so you said

[1:19:28] so you that as an example I mean

[1:19:30] I think it's not I mean I think

[1:19:31] it's

[1:19:35] fairly simple so ok delaware's

[1:19:35] fairly small

[1:19:38] when you talk about a department

[1:19:40] of housings I'm going to get

[1:19:42] there but we need to talk

[1:19:43] about a potential department of

[1:19:44] housing or potential

[1:19:46] reorganization of how housing is

[1:19:47] addressed in the state

[1:19:52] some version of reorganization

[1:19:53] makes sense to me

[1:19:55] like it doesn't make sense to me

[1:19:58] and it wouldn't make sense to me

[1:20:00] that like the same entity that's

[1:20:01] like the housing finance agency

[1:20:02] for the state that's really

[1:20:03] focused on like getting the

[1:20:04] dollars out leveraging the low

[1:20:06] income housing tax credit like

[1:20:08] getting the apartments you know

[1:20:10] multifamily apartments built is

[1:20:12] the same entity that would

[1:20:14] handle like a rental registry

[1:20:16] because those are really

[1:20:18] different functions not that it

[1:20:19] can't be but

[1:20:22] I think there are some like

[1:20:22] really clear housing functions

[1:20:24] that are needed housing

[1:20:25] authority

[1:20:27] is very different than housing

[1:20:28] fining agency which is really

[1:20:29] different than an entity that

[1:20:30] would do something like have a

[1:20:32] rental registry and maybe act as

[1:20:34] like an ombudsman for housing

[1:20:35] problems so

[1:20:38] some of that happens at the

[1:20:40] local level I think through

[1:20:43] like license and inspection or

[1:20:44] like city government but local

[1:20:46] governments are so taxed that

[1:20:47] they think a lot of what's

[1:20:47] happening when folks have

[1:20:48] housing issues is that they're

[1:20:50] looking to the state for help

[1:20:52] and there's just like they're

[1:20:54] not getting that help with their

[1:20:56] housing issue and so in my mind

[1:20:58] a rental registry served so that

[1:20:59] at any given time we can say

[1:21:01] so it serves to me a client

[1:21:04] service customer service purpose

[1:21:05] iss that a dog yeah

[1:21:08] it serves a customer service

[1:21:10] purpose from that perspective

[1:21:12] but also like a policy purpose

[1:21:14] like we can say like we know who

[1:21:15] like what properties out there

[1:21:16] are taking

[1:21:17] subsidies

[1:21:20] and we want to partner with them

[1:21:22] to like solve family

[1:21:23] homelessness making that up but

[1:21:24] it would just let us know the

[1:21:26] landscape of what exists out

[1:21:28] there in the rental world in a

[1:21:30] similar way that I think maybe

[1:21:32] maybe we know the homeownership

[1:21:34] landscape a little better so

[1:21:35] that's the way I think of a

[1:21:35] rental registry.

[1:21:40] and this could be something tied

[1:21:41] in with the realtors because

[1:21:42] they know where the apartments

[1:21:45] are maybe I mean you all don't

[1:21:46] work with like large multifamily

[1:21:48] actors as much do you you're

[1:21:48] more like small

[1:21:52] I don't know

[1:21:54] they're very I don't think they

[1:21:55] they don't want a rental

[1:21:55] registry

[1:21:58] I don't think they would agree

[1:21:59] with me on that

[1:22:04] there is a part of your written

[1:22:06] testimony that says

[1:22:08] that

[1:22:11] the housing authority portions

[1:22:13] should stay separate from any

[1:22:13] entity

[1:22:17] I don't have a take either way

[1:22:18] on that just curious why you

[1:22:19] felt like we should definitely

[1:22:19] say that

[1:22:20] it just

[1:22:24] I just think that

[1:22:30] sorector heckles is wonderful. I

[1:22:31] think he wears too many hats

[1:22:34] I love that he wears the hats

[1:22:35] that he wears when I'm talking

[1:22:36] to him because he's great but to

[1:22:37] me I just

[1:22:40] don't understand why like in

[1:22:41] housing finance agency and a

[1:22:42] housing authority they're just

[1:22:44] so different like why not just

[1:22:45] every other housing authority in

[1:22:46] the state is a separate entity

[1:22:47] with its own director and its

[1:22:48] own board and like just like go

[1:22:49] like do that and let

[1:22:52] whatever it's called whether

[1:22:53] it's well you probably have to

[1:22:54] change the name of DSHA to

[1:22:56] something different because now

[1:22:56] it wouldn't be a housing

[1:22:58] authority but and think that's

[1:22:59] part of what's confusing about

[1:23:02] DSHA is that it's like

[1:23:04] performing multiple functions

[1:23:05] it's called a housing authority

[1:23:06] when most of what it does I

[1:23:08] don't know about most a lot of

[1:23:10] what it does is not be a housing

[1:23:12] authority. there's only this one

[1:23:13] part of it that is actually a

[1:23:13] housing authority

[1:23:16] I don't know it just doesn't

[1:23:18] make sense to me and then I

[1:23:20] think you could have like a

[1:23:20] director of the southern

[1:23:22] delawarehousing Authority in the

[1:23:23] same way you have a director of

[1:23:24] the Wilmington housing Authority

[1:23:25] and the newcastle County Housing

[1:23:26] Authority and the doverhousing

[1:23:26] Authority that would be its own

[1:23:28] separate entity doesn't need to

[1:23:30] be part of the state

[1:23:30] infrastructure in my opinion.

[1:23:35] then I kind of have a

[1:23:36] interesting way of asking the

[1:23:38] next question which might feel

[1:23:38] like I'm putting you on the spot

[1:23:40] a little but it's not

[1:23:40] intentional

[1:23:45] so I come from the community

[1:23:46] organizing world right and we

[1:23:48] have a theory of change of

[1:23:50] working your s way out of a job

[1:23:52] right and so in your space of

[1:23:54] of homelessness what are the top

[1:23:56] three reasons you're still

[1:23:56] employed in this space of ending

[1:23:58] homelessness and the

[1:24:00] the follow up question to that

[1:24:01] would be

[1:24:04] what do we have to do like what

[1:24:06] is the top thing that we have to

[1:24:07] do to

[1:24:09] make you unemployed in this

[1:24:09] space.

[1:24:14] yeah no no no offense taken at

[1:24:14] all

[1:24:16] no offense taken at all I talk

[1:24:18] about retirement a lot for

[1:24:19] someone who's not near

[1:24:19] retirement yet

[1:24:24] so something that we've

[1:24:26] talked a lot about in our space

[1:24:27] is that we should all be working

[1:24:29] to put ourselves out of a job

[1:24:30] so that's I don't take offense

[1:24:31] to that at all

[1:24:34] so it's a two part question why

[1:24:34] do I still have a job

[1:24:37] homelessness keeps growing

[1:24:42] a lot of the work that our

[1:24:43] non so homelessness keeps

[1:24:43] growing

[1:24:46] a lot of the work that our

[1:24:48] organization does is work that

[1:24:50] has to happen so either we're

[1:24:51] going to do it or someone else

[1:24:52] is going to do it we've been the

[1:24:53] ones doing it since

[1:24:56] and actually director heckles

[1:24:57] might know some of this history.

[1:24:58] When did the homemelesslanning

[1:24:59] council start doing all that

[1:25:00] like infrastructure COC work do

[1:25:01] you know

[1:25:02] ar th ack passed in

[1:25:07] right

[1:25:08] so since that time there's been

[1:25:12] a need for the state of delaware

[1:25:14] and other places it's county

[1:25:14] level you know because we're

[1:25:16] small like soilly has its own

[1:25:20] COC there's a western

[1:25:22] PennsylvaniaOC there's a city of

[1:25:23] phoenix CUC California has a

[1:25:24] million COCs in delaware it's

[1:25:27] just the delaware we have one we

[1:25:28] have to have someone has to do

[1:25:30] that job and that has been us

[1:25:32] since2009 or2010

[1:25:36] so that's two

[1:25:39] Can I just do two

[1:25:43] that's if that's what you think

[1:25:46] it takes yes I think he said

[1:25:48] but I'm going to stick with two

[1:25:50] and then the second part of the

[1:25:51] question was the three things

[1:25:52] we should do

[1:26:04] h

[1:26:07] trying to phone a friend I

[1:26:08] want to make sure I say the

[1:26:10] things I'm gonna whatever I say

[1:26:12] I'm going to regrett regret it

[1:26:13] don't gret it we're not holding

[1:26:14] you know you can leave and say

[1:26:15] hey we changed it yeah

[1:26:20] this is my chance ok I would

[1:26:22] say we need to

[1:26:26] rapidly produced more affordable

[1:26:27] housing

[1:26:30] rental housing in particular

[1:26:32] it'll bring everything down

[1:26:34] think the new homeowner market

[1:26:36] will open up rapidly produce

[1:26:38] more affordable rental housing

[1:26:42] we need to

[1:26:44] focus on getting people

[1:26:48] out of the homelessness system

[1:26:51] quickly versus getting them into

[1:26:52] the homelessness system quickly

[1:26:54] or both

[1:26:56] but I think what we've been

[1:26:58] focusing on in delaware for many

[1:27:00] many years has been getting how

[1:27:01] to get people in versus how to

[1:27:03] get people out so we either

[1:27:06] need to kind of switch or or try

[1:27:06] to make sure we're doing both at

[1:27:07] the same time

[1:27:08] and

[1:27:15] I think we need a statewide

[1:27:16] emergency rental assistance

[1:27:16] program.

[1:27:21] so that people we have about70%

[1:27:22] of people who experience

[1:27:24] homelessness in delaware and on

[1:27:25] any given year are people who

[1:27:25] are newly homeless

[1:27:28] and have not been homeless

[1:27:30] before and if we can keep people

[1:27:31] housed and keep them from

[1:27:32] becoming homeless we can have

[1:27:36] more resources to address folks

[1:27:37] who can't get out of it without

[1:27:37] help

[1:27:42] that's3

[1:27:43] what is affordable housing

[1:27:46] because everybody has different

[1:27:48] definitions so affordable

[1:27:50] housing

[1:27:52] director Edjill you were on

[1:27:53] the task force too didnn't we

[1:27:54] decide what affordable housing

[1:27:55] meant on the affordable housing

[1:27:57] production task force so we

[1:27:59] decided it was a housing that

[1:28:03] was affordable for households at

[1:28:08] 80% AMI and below for rental and

[1:28:12] for homeownership100% dammn so

[1:28:13] close120% AI and below and

[1:28:13] affordable means

[1:28:16] it's all based on your income so

[1:28:17] for every person it's different

[1:28:18] rental

[1:28:24] and12 for homeownership of the

[1:28:26] area median income so the

[1:28:28] unit is affordable to you if you

[1:28:29] are making that

[1:28:30] wage or below

[1:28:32] and affordable means you're not

[1:28:34] spending more than30% of your

[1:28:35] income on housing costs'll just

[1:28:38] add that that taskor report

[1:28:40] mattchott did a a sort of

[1:28:42] spreadsheet showing what that

[1:28:44] means in different the three

[1:28:44] counties in delaware and sort of

[1:28:46] has some examples of what the

[1:28:46] rent would be or the home

[1:28:47] ownership

[1:28:50] mortgage cost would be so that's

[1:28:52] a really good resource to

[1:28:53] something we should pull out and

[1:28:54] share more widely and probably

[1:28:56] should update it you know

[1:28:57] whenever new census numbers come

[1:28:59] out or or whatever but that that

[1:29:01] kind of gives you a sense of I'm

[1:29:03] very sad that I did not memorize

[1:29:05] that that spreadsheet but I mean

[1:29:08] but it's you know so it's it's

[1:29:08] it's it's powerful to

[1:29:13] and then the next fellow the

[1:29:16] getting them in quickly is one

[1:29:18] thing but when you say getting

[1:29:18] them out how

[1:29:20] how long are you saying people

[1:29:22] are staying and what is our our

[1:29:25] failure in in moving them on to

[1:29:28] the next phase in life so our

[1:29:30] failure I think is both approach

[1:29:31] and resources so

[1:29:34] a lot of people who become

[1:29:35] homeless

[1:29:38] their homelessness can be solved

[1:29:39] fairly quickly

[1:29:44] right away if we if someone is

[1:29:44] at that front door instead of

[1:29:45] working on like

[1:29:48] not that they don't need access

[1:29:48] to safe shelter but instead of

[1:29:49] working on

[1:29:50] you know we're spending

[1:29:53] we're doing an intake we're

[1:29:54] assessing all your service needs

[1:29:56] you're going to be here for30

[1:29:58] to90 days or120 days or whatever

[1:30:00] the program is and we're going

[1:30:00] to be working on all this stuff

[1:30:03] to get like the assessment is ok

[1:30:04] we're going to talk about all

[1:30:06] that stuff but like where did

[1:30:07] you live most recently? have you

[1:30:09] ever been homeless before? What

[1:30:10] is do you have a housing plan?

[1:30:12] what it like how do we get you

[1:30:14] connected to a housing whether

[1:30:15] that's a voucher program or a

[1:30:17] like like Srap or a public

[1:30:19] housing authority voucher or a

[1:30:20] continuum of care rapid

[1:30:21] rehousing voucher or like what

[1:30:21] are

[1:30:23] the potential resources for you

[1:30:24] and how are we getting you

[1:30:26] connected to that as quickly as

[1:30:28] possible which is a different

[1:30:30] lens than how are we making sure

[1:30:31] that you are successful in our

[1:30:31] program

[1:30:34] right we don't want you in our

[1:30:35] program we want to be out of a

[1:30:38] job right we want you in housing

[1:30:39] in the community with your

[1:30:39] family

[1:30:44] right so obviously we wouldn't

[1:30:44] take people we don't want them

[1:30:46] in our programs but you

[1:30:47] understand what I'm saying

[1:30:48] so are are we

[1:30:52] we spoke to somebody else had

[1:30:52] similar feelings to what you had

[1:30:54] so I don't want to fill in your

[1:30:56] thoughts with their thoughts but

[1:31:00] are you finding that that

[1:31:02] success rate has to do with

[1:31:04] knowledgeba like maybe not

[1:31:06] knowing how to budget and how to

[1:31:07] deal with you know emergencies

[1:31:10] sooner maybe a family history

[1:31:13] of you know homelessness cycles

[1:31:14] etc and dependency on systems

[1:31:18] and are are you suggesting at

[1:31:20] all that we build into it the

[1:31:22] ability to create maybe like

[1:31:23] resilience and in that education

[1:31:24] piece that allows you to to move

[1:31:27] past homelessness but I don't

[1:31:27] think that has

[1:31:30] to hap that can happen at the

[1:31:31] same time that you're working on

[1:31:32] housing it doesn't have to be

[1:31:33] one or the other

[1:31:38] if we have the resources right

[1:31:39] so and the other thing is

[1:31:39] everyone

[1:31:42] in my experience I like to say

[1:31:43] that there are two things that

[1:31:44] someone who is experiencing

[1:31:46] homelessness has in common with

[1:31:46] they all that everyone has in

[1:31:47] common who's experiencing

[1:31:48] homelessness

[1:31:50] they don't have housing and

[1:31:52] money for housing like otherwise

[1:31:53] they

[1:31:56] have housing and they don't

[1:31:58] have a support network of some

[1:32:00] somehow their support network

[1:32:01] has fallen aparthe that's family

[1:32:01] friends

[1:32:04] whether it's because they were

[1:32:05] recently incarcerated whatever

[1:32:06] the reason is their support

[1:32:08] network is falling apart

[1:32:10] and those are the only two

[1:32:11] things so part of what it is too

[1:32:11] is having

[1:32:14] like so when we talk about the

[1:32:14] continuum of care we talk about

[1:32:18] thesecri programs having the

[1:32:20] resources within that system to

[1:32:22] address everyone's needs as they

[1:32:23] are coming in because you're

[1:32:25] going to have people who have

[1:32:26] been housing insecure and

[1:32:28] homeless for many many years and

[1:32:30] you're going to have people who

[1:32:32] and aren't allowed back at

[1:32:34] the shelter and that inter what

[1:32:36] the services and housing that

[1:32:38] come to rank are going to be

[1:32:38] different than what is needed

[1:32:39] for

[1:32:43] Suzanne and who's never been

[1:32:43] homeless before and she

[1:32:48] lost her job at the hospital and

[1:32:48] couldn't pay rent and'm making

[1:32:49] that up

[1:32:54] so it's having a right now most

[1:32:57] not all but in many cases and

[1:32:57] a lot of homeless assistance

[1:32:58] programs people are working to

[1:32:59] keep people safe

[1:33:02] that is the they have the

[1:33:03] capacity to work to keep people

[1:33:04] safe and indoors

[1:33:08] they do not in many cases have

[1:33:10] the capacity to work to get

[1:33:12] people to the housing and

[1:33:13] services they need because they

[1:33:14] are focused on keeping people

[1:33:16] safe. so it's also a resource

[1:33:16] issue and a capacity issue.

[1:33:21] then I think my final question

[1:33:22] is when you mention the

[1:33:24] statewide rental assistance

[1:33:24] program

[1:33:28] don't we already kind of have

[1:33:32] something I feel like we are

[1:33:32] always sending people to a

[1:33:34] certain place sometimes we send

[1:33:37] them to nonprofits etc but again

[1:33:38] what is what is it that we're

[1:33:40] emergency rental assistance

[1:33:42] sorry to clarify so for folks

[1:33:44] who are facing eviction or

[1:33:46] housing instability so kind of

[1:33:48] like we had during covid

[1:33:49] although it could be

[1:33:50] a little different in terms

[1:33:52] of how it's managed but one

[1:33:56] place ok deputy secretary is

[1:33:56] nodding one place where folks

[1:33:57] can go to get their

[1:34:02] past due rent paid so that they

[1:34:03] don't have to lose their housing

[1:34:07] the way that the that system

[1:34:08] works right now is that there

[1:34:10] are a lot of different entities

[1:34:11] similar to I think everything

[1:34:12] we've been talking about today

[1:34:13] there are a lot of different

[1:34:14] entities that do a little bit

[1:34:15] so

[1:34:18] right now you go to the state

[1:34:20] serviceent you may or may not

[1:34:22] qualify for some there's some

[1:34:22] type of emergency assistance

[1:34:24] available there. the emergency

[1:34:26] assistance but it's500

[1:34:27] dollars4 dollars

[1:34:31] think it's about1200 dollars10

[1:34:32] dollars that does that include

[1:34:33] the hotel motel stay

[1:34:36] that is that is the the that's

[1:34:38] the that is the hotel motel

[1:34:40] voucher roughly1200 and it buys

[1:34:44] maybe221 days at the most can

[1:34:44] any of that be used for back

[1:34:45] rent?

[1:34:46] I thought there were some cases

[1:34:47] where folks could get back rent

[1:34:54] anyway now'm like program so

[1:34:56] there you know you can go there

[1:34:58] through there's some places

[1:34:59] in DHSS where you can get

[1:35:02] some background mostly you're

[1:35:04] going to cattholic

[1:35:06] charitieslutheranunityervices

[1:35:06] sometimes west end

[1:35:07] neighborighborhood house I don't

[1:35:07] know if they still do it or not

[1:35:10] and so you're going to these

[1:35:11] nonprofits that are getting

[1:35:14] funded in large part bydSHA I

[1:35:16] think but also their private

[1:35:18] organizations they raise funds

[1:35:20] or you know of a local church in

[1:35:22] your community because you're a

[1:35:22] member of the church and you can

[1:35:23] go there and they'll help you

[1:35:26] but if you're not you're you're

[1:35:27] calling one of these nonprofits

[1:35:28] in this place Owen Friendship

[1:35:30] House and this place is saying

[1:35:32] we do a500 dollars maximum

[1:35:33] you're two months behind rent

[1:35:34] you know an eviction's been

[1:35:35] filed against you your

[1:35:36] rent's2,000 dollars you owe4,000

[1:35:38] dollars. I can get500 from here

[1:35:39] but they won't give me that500

[1:35:40] until I show that I've gotten

[1:35:42] the other3500 so then what I

[1:35:43] have to do is I have to go to

[1:35:44] Luther community services and

[1:35:45] they're going to say ok well

[1:35:47] we'll give you500 too but not

[1:35:48] until you show us that you have

[1:35:49] the other3500

[1:35:52] and so people have to go to

[1:35:54] like7 or 8 places to get usually

[1:35:56] not the full amount people want

[1:35:57] the family to match it

[1:36:00] it would just really really

[1:36:02] really be great if folks could

[1:36:04] go to one place and say you know

[1:36:06] if I if I had2000 dollars I

[1:36:08] wouldn't be evicted can you just

[1:36:08] give me200 dollars

[1:36:09] I think that would

[1:36:12] be extremely helpful for a lot

[1:36:15] of reasons at one of the things

[1:36:17] we're doing right now at

[1:36:18] coordinated entry at the

[1:36:19] homemeless helpline as we're

[1:36:20] partnering with the cityity

[1:36:21] ofwilmington has a pot of funds

[1:36:23] it's using for back rent for

[1:36:23] emergency rental assistance

[1:36:26] and the organizations that

[1:36:27] receive those funds and we're

[1:36:28] making direct referrals for

[1:36:30] eligible households within like

[1:36:31] the city limits to that resource

[1:36:34] and the challenge has been that

[1:36:36] folks calling again rent's not

[1:36:38] like500 dollars a month or $600

[1:36:40] a month so even if someone's

[1:36:42] only one month behind we'll make

[1:36:44] the referral but not their their

[1:36:45] full need is not being met and

[1:36:46] then they're calling us back and

[1:36:47] saying well they said they'd

[1:36:48] help me but I still need help

[1:36:50] from someone else so there's no

[1:36:51] like one place to go

[1:36:54] and would you suggest the same

[1:36:56] thing for people who are

[1:36:58] falling behind on mortgages

[1:37:00] maybe they've lost their job and

[1:37:01] they can't keep up and they're

[1:37:02] in a similar situation

[1:37:06] do we still have a mortgage

[1:37:06] assistance program

[1:37:10] do we have that still

[1:37:12] or did that run out? wass that

[1:37:13] covid

[1:37:20] the covid era program yeah

[1:37:20] that was time limited at the

[1:37:22] federal level along with ERA

[1:37:24] and

[1:37:28] so currently we don't have a

[1:37:28] foreclosure

[1:37:30] prevention

[1:37:34] financing program there's

[1:37:34] housing counseling a lot of the

[1:37:38] one of the things that happened

[1:37:40] with covid was all of the

[1:37:42] programs that the mortgage

[1:37:43] servicers stood up

[1:37:44] and and they were really

[1:37:46] effective

[1:37:50] at at keeping people's

[1:37:51] keep people in their mortgages

[1:37:54] I think a lot of them are still

[1:37:56] running banks realize that

[1:37:56] they're a good way to avoid a

[1:37:57] foreclosure and

[1:38:02] banks don't want foreclosures

[1:38:04] either they're very expensive

[1:38:05] for them I I've

[1:38:08] not really jokingly said but

[1:38:10] sort of jokingly said if we had

[1:38:12] all of the tools in the mortgage

[1:38:15] industry that we had during

[1:38:18] covid in2010 as the financial

[1:38:22] crisis was starting and we

[1:38:24] probably wouldn't have had a

[1:38:24] global meltdown

[1:38:26] so those programs are still

[1:38:30] serving a lot of people any

[1:38:32] foreclosure or threat of

[1:38:34] foreclosure is is you know a

[1:38:35] dramatic thing for that

[1:38:35] individual

[1:38:40] big picture we're not seeing

[1:38:43] rates of foreclosure that are

[1:38:45] out of the norm you know during

[1:38:46] the financial crisis we were

[1:38:50] seeing you know somewhere

[1:38:51] around I think it was close I

[1:38:52] think we might have hit10 to12

[1:38:54] 1000 during one stretch per year

[1:38:56] and we're we're still sort of

[1:38:59] hovering around100 or so which

[1:39:01] is you know our gold during

[1:39:02] the financial crisis was to get

[1:39:04] to sort of a natural state at

[1:39:08] around22 to22und0 so we're

[1:39:10] actually in a very low those low

[1:39:10] interest rates that everyone got

[1:39:11] a few

[1:39:14] years back and and some

[1:39:16] other factors I think some of

[1:39:18] the institutionalized

[1:39:20] programs on the on the bank

[1:39:22] servicing side are are keeping

[1:39:23] those

[1:39:25] relatively low from a data

[1:39:25] standpoint

[1:39:29] so as someone who doesn't know

[1:39:30] as much about mortgage

[1:39:31] assistance as they do about

[1:39:32] homeless assistance I wanted to

[1:39:34] askrector heckles that as

[1:39:36] someone who doesn't have to

[1:39:37] think about budgeting yes

[1:39:40] think you should have that

[1:39:41] assistance available for

[1:39:41] homeowners too

[1:39:44] any other questions from the

[1:39:48] thank you so much thank you for

[1:39:49] having me

[1:39:57] right so for our fourth

[1:40:00] agenda item it was we were to

[1:40:02] be having presentations from

[1:40:03] the delaware ental housing

[1:40:08] folks to include Jeff Sheriton

[1:40:10] from the greaterwilmington

[1:40:10] housing provideviders and then

[1:40:14] also deborah Burgos from the

[1:40:15] apartment association

[1:40:16] unfortunately both were unable

[1:40:18] to attend today but they did

[1:40:20] submit their presentations

[1:40:22] for us to review they are

[1:40:24] available for the public to

[1:40:24] review as well so

[1:40:26] please take a moment

[1:40:30] to to look those over in the

[1:40:31] days to come

[1:40:36] I do ask of our committee if

[1:40:38] we want to take some time to

[1:40:39] have a little bit of back and

[1:40:39] forth

[1:40:43] there's any major takeaways I do

[1:40:44] want us to get into the space

[1:40:46] where we will have a first draft

[1:40:48] coming of our report and I would

[1:40:51] ask that by next Friday if we

[1:40:54] can have just I'm not asking for

[1:40:55] anything to be written up crazy

[1:40:56] right but some talking points

[1:40:58] around what you think are some

[1:41:00] key takeaways that you've

[1:41:02] have come to you over the last

[1:41:04] series of presentations that you

[1:41:06] would want to make sure that we

[1:41:08] have in a a first draft so

[1:41:09] that we can be certain that that

[1:41:09] first draft

[1:41:12] is something worthy of us having

[1:41:14] a more robust conversation about

[1:41:16] and having public comment on so

[1:41:18] that as we go into our

[1:41:21] subsequent drafts that we're

[1:41:22] already starting with a strong

[1:41:23] foundation

[1:41:27] any questions or comments around

[1:41:27] what I just mentioned Director

[1:41:28] heckel

[1:41:28] thank you

[1:41:34] process wise so how so if we

[1:41:38] submit ideas how do you see

[1:41:39] that unfolding at that task

[1:41:40] force the affordable housing

[1:41:42] supply task force

[1:41:44] we had a number of subcommittees

[1:41:46] that sort of rolled up

[1:41:48] recommendations we don't have

[1:41:48] that here

[1:41:53] but each recommendation was I

[1:41:53] think we voted on each one

[1:41:54] didn't we

[1:41:56] we ended up with71

[1:42:00] and so I'm just curious of

[1:42:02] what your thoughts are about

[1:42:04] sort of how how all of that

[1:42:06] works so think with the first

[1:42:07] draft there won't be

[1:42:08] recommendations the first draft

[1:42:10] will be bringing together all of

[1:42:12] the information this is what you

[1:42:14] know was presented these are the

[1:42:18] the key points that were made

[1:42:20] from that then we can say listen

[1:42:22] everything that we've considered

[1:42:24] these are recommendations we'll

[1:42:24] filter those out

[1:42:27] through some conversation public

[1:42:28] comment etc and then keep

[1:42:30] working whittling our way

[1:42:31] through to the in

[1:42:31] makes sense

[1:42:36] any other questions or comments

[1:42:37] on that

[1:42:38] senator Hoffmanman

[1:42:40] I kind of feel like it just in

[1:42:42] the discussions we were coming

[1:42:46] up with ideas and and like that

[1:42:46] should go into the report like

[1:42:48] we were talking about maybe you

[1:42:50] should take on more and give

[1:42:52] some of your other things off to

[1:42:53] some of the nonprofits

[1:42:56] do you feel like that I know

[1:42:58] it's been a long time since we

[1:42:59] met

[1:43:02] but as we were talking we we are

[1:43:02] realizing that your office is

[1:43:04] taking on things that you

[1:43:05] shouldn't be taking on

[1:43:07] yet your

[1:43:11] guidance on some of these things

[1:43:14] so what achel was saying I

[1:43:15] don't know where she went

[1:43:18] talking about the different

[1:43:19] directors and then like maybe

[1:43:20] you could oversee all the

[1:43:22] different directors and then we

[1:43:23] could start pulling things

[1:43:23] together that way

[1:43:28] that just in these conversations

[1:43:30] kind of ideas have been'll take

[1:43:30] that as a compliment because I

[1:43:32] thought the complaint was that

[1:43:32] we weren't doing enough

[1:43:34] so

[1:43:38] so ok season season two of the

[1:43:39] show is really interesting

[1:43:44] yeah yeah

[1:43:46] short I mean you know a lot of

[1:43:48] the stuff that that that we've

[1:43:50] talked about are things that

[1:43:52] that you know in different

[1:43:54] ways I think that you know we

[1:43:58] heard atdSHA and are doing

[1:44:00] differently now so I think it's

[1:44:02] really important as we go

[1:44:04] through this process to not only

[1:44:05] look at

[1:44:10] at at at the way things used to

[1:44:12] be but also look at how they

[1:44:14] are different just in the last

[1:44:16] couple of years and and

[1:44:20] the way that the the direction

[1:44:22] thatdSHA is going on on on

[1:44:23] things that maybe aren't quite

[1:44:24] done yet I mean homelessness

[1:44:27] I think is a perfect example and

[1:44:28] following up on on Rachel's

[1:44:29] presentation

[1:44:34] you know s stepping into a

[1:44:38] recreating a statewide entity

[1:44:40] with the interagency

[1:44:42] collaborative you know

[1:44:44] getting some sort of situation

[1:44:48] where we're level set on on the

[1:44:50] existing s the existing

[1:44:51] system breaking out into10

[1:44:52] different subcommittees to look

[1:44:54] at centralized intake and code

[1:44:56] purple and shelter capacity and

[1:44:58] prevention and exits right all

[1:44:59] of the things that achel just

[1:45:00] said

[1:45:02] you know we we know that we

[1:45:04] need to to be doing more work on

[1:45:06] that and DSHA is putting itself

[1:45:07] right to the middle of that

[1:45:10] all well you know also you

[1:45:12] know close to closer today

[1:45:14] than we were yesterday at least

[1:45:16] opening a hope center in Kent

[1:45:18] County and that changes that

[1:45:19] changes in my mind that changes

[1:45:20] everything but it certainly

[1:45:25] changes DSHA and so you know

[1:45:26] that's the kind of of stuff that

[1:45:28] I I think it's important to

[1:45:30] recognize yeah where we've been

[1:45:32] but also you know where the

[1:45:36] wheredSHA is is going as this

[1:45:37] committee makes its its

[1:45:37] recommendations

[1:45:42] any other questions or

[1:45:48] do we have any public comment

[1:45:52] people signed up for public

[1:45:53] comment sorry

[1:45:56] madam chair it's ok

[1:45:59] we currently do not have any

[1:46:02] in-person public comment I will

[1:46:03] inquire to see if we do have any

[1:46:06] virtual comments at this time

[1:46:10] we do have one son that

[1:46:11] misawayis

[1:46:18] Stevevanna unfortunately we are

[1:46:20] unable to hear you clear.

[1:46:22] do you hear me now? Yes we can

[1:46:23] thank you

[1:46:24] Lisa ri

[1:46:33] Hi good afternoon. my name is

[1:46:34] Lisa ice fromiddletown

[1:46:37] and I appreciate this

[1:46:38] opportunity to speak

[1:46:42] I want to first mention that

[1:46:43] taxpayers in delaware do not

[1:46:44] want another division to be

[1:46:48] formed and question why for

[1:46:49] existing housing authorities are

[1:46:51] not capable of managing

[1:46:52] affordable housing goals and the

[1:46:53] process to achieve them

[1:46:56] when taxpayers are experiencing

[1:46:58] increases in property school and

[1:47:00] business taxes we want to see

[1:47:03] responsible government spending

[1:47:05] because if legislators lowered

[1:47:05] property taxes

[1:47:08] housing would be affordable and

[1:47:11] consumer spending would increase

[1:47:12] which benefits the state

[1:47:12] financially

[1:47:15] Additionally as an advocate the

[1:47:16] thought of more wasteful

[1:47:18] spending stings my eyes because

[1:47:20] I can name hundreds of other

[1:47:21] ways to spend money that would

[1:47:22] directly catapult the state by

[1:47:23] assisting people to thrive

[1:47:26] Other states have created

[1:47:28] bipartisan legislation in order

[1:47:30] to provide affordable housing

[1:47:31] and I've created a document

[1:47:32] which I'll send in a few moments

[1:47:36] to share202ix legislation with

[1:47:38] you I placed oregon first

[1:47:40] because I advocated for housing

[1:47:42] in delaware for over two years

[1:47:43] and I feel like perhaps we

[1:47:43] should rest

[1:47:48] on what to see where our recent

[1:47:49] successful efforts lead us

[1:47:52] efforts to protect ventures in

[1:47:54] vast capacities have been

[1:47:56] largely successful very recently

[1:47:56] in delaware

[1:47:59] regarding building more housing

[1:48:01] to lower costs I know this is

[1:48:02] how economics are supposed to

[1:48:04] work. however as a farmer the

[1:48:06] price of hay would go up because

[1:48:08] there was too much rain and not

[1:48:08] enough rain and the prices never

[1:48:09] went down.

[1:48:11] Temporary taxes are never

[1:48:11] temporary either

[1:48:16] gar ding homelessness based on

[1:48:17] my studies and personal

[1:48:19] experience as a former homeless

[1:48:19] and active alcoholic

[1:48:22] I have found that harm reduction

[1:48:24] efforts that meet a person where

[1:48:27] they are should include street

[1:48:29] interventions with immediate

[1:48:30] transport available to treatment

[1:48:34] not a suggestion, not a pamphlet

[1:48:36] or an offer to call somebody.

[1:48:38] I'm talking about a car with an

[1:48:38] available bed at the end of the

[1:48:39] trip

[1:48:42] d d ition ally delaware needs

[1:48:43] more places to recover

[1:48:45] recovery and treatment are not

[1:48:45] the same

[1:48:51] Your2 minutes is up this

[1:48:52] concludes all virtual public

[1:48:52] comment

[1:49:00] thank youtevanna

[1:49:02] with that said I do want to just

[1:49:04] let the committee know that I'll

[1:49:06] be sending an email with some

[1:49:08] possible dates for us to have

[1:49:10] follow up meetings if folks

[1:49:12] could share which dates work

[1:49:13] best for them that would be

[1:49:14] helpful and then we can just

[1:49:16] lock those in and other than

[1:49:18] that we'll look forward to your

[1:49:20] submittal of pieces that you

[1:49:22] want to ensure that we have in

[1:49:23] the first draft of the report

[1:49:24] about the things again just the

[1:49:26] information we've gathered by

[1:49:27] September4th right

[1:49:30] thank you all all'll entertain a

[1:49:31] motion

[1:49:33] all right

[1:49:36] seeing no objections our meeting

[1:49:36] adjourns

Housing Department Task Force

Transcript