[26:44] out where 10 acre tracts pieces

[26:45] of property where you want to

[26:48] put your well that goes to

[26:50] public notice and once that goes

[26:51] to public notice that's kind of

[26:54] a legally binding document that

[26:56] says you have a 10 acre track

[26:59] here that you're legally able to

[27:00] put a well. So now the well

[27:03] driller goes in they put in the

[27:04] permit number and they say

[27:06] here's a latitude longitude that

[27:08] I want to drill a well for this

[27:10] permit. we checked to see if

[27:11] that is in the same

[27:12] location as where you went to

[27:14] notice if it's not we tell the

[27:16] well driller there needs to be

[27:18] an amendment on this permit and

[27:19] it needs to go back out to

[27:20] notice generally

[27:25] for one more follow up on that

[27:28] if we're specifying a 10 acre

[27:29] block

[27:30] and they don't feel like there's

[27:31] water in that 10 acre block.

[27:34] before they drilled it so we had

[27:36] to totally start over if we're

[27:38] going to move over to an

[27:39] adjacent 10 acres if you

[27:40] specifically said that 10 acre

[27:43] tract that is correct. You can

[27:44] fill out your application that

[27:45] says hey you know

[27:46] I have

[27:51] 2000 acres. I don't know where I

[27:52] want to put my well. I want to

[27:55] go to notice on my whole block

[27:57] of land and that would bypass

[27:58] that and you would allow you'd

[28:00] have to notify more people but

[28:01] that would allow you to put it

[28:02] wherever you wanted to you're

[28:03] welcome

[28:14] we have again we have domestic

[28:18] wells again if you're putting in

[28:20] a a pub a irrigation or

[28:21] public water supply well there's

[28:23] well spacing for each aquifer

[28:26] that you are required to be set

[28:27] back from and that's generally

[28:30] 1320 acre feet for groundwater

[28:34] wells and660 feet for alluvium

[28:37] wells so if you come in and

[28:39] drill a well and you have a

[28:40] house that's next door and it's

[28:44] within500 feet you have a right

[28:46] to kind of to protest that and

[28:48] make sure that the irrigation or

[28:50] public water supply well or

[28:51] whatever well is outside that

[28:51] well spacing

[28:58] Any other questions

[29:06] Again this is an example of what

[29:08] we kind of get is this accurate?

[29:10] is there overuse going on we

[29:11] don't know there's insufficient

[29:13] data and this shows a permit

[29:17] for213.3 acre feet per year and

[29:19] they've written in I think

[29:20] 181,82 acre feet

[29:24] is that gallons did they really

[29:26] mean acre feet this is for Stint

[29:28] Louisuttility Company. Does

[29:30] anyone know where the small town

[29:32] of Saint Louis is I don't think

[29:33] that they used 181,000 acre feet

[29:37] so we do get these and

[29:39] historically we just haven't had

[29:40] time to you know give Stint

[29:41] Louis a call and say are you

[29:41] really using this amount?

[29:44] I think over the next couple of

[29:47] years we're going to have an

[29:48] online water use reporting

[29:50] database and that's going to

[29:52] catch a lot of these errors so

[29:54] if you were to ask me how much

[29:56] water use we used in2025

[30:00] uhpresentative Newton has asked

[30:01] us that you know several times

[30:02] we'd pull the data out of our

[30:04] database and we'd hand it to

[30:07] them and it might be 181,000

[30:09] acre feet off if we didn't catch

[30:11] that so when we pull that data

[30:12] we go and look for some of the

[30:13] things that are a little

[30:15] outrageous but there's there's

[30:17] definitely a lot of error in the

[30:18] amount of water that's reported

[30:24] Groundwater use in Oklahoma this

[30:26] is a graph dating back to 20 or

[30:31] the year2000 through2024 and the

[30:32] thing that I would like to point

[30:35] out here is in about2010 to2011

[30:37] we started having an increase in

[30:38] the amount of water use

[30:40] reported. We also had an

[30:42] increase of the amount of

[30:43] permits that were being applied

[30:46] for and it was because of the

[30:47] drought and if you look at those

[30:49] numbers we had about a50%

[30:50] increase in the amount of water

[30:51] use that was

[30:53] reported so we've had a lot an

[30:55] influx of people when drought

[30:56] happens there's a water

[30:58] scarcity. I don't know if I have

[31:02] enough water I need to permit

[31:04] some more of my land to increase

[31:05] the amount of water I can use.

[31:10] w017 was the most water we've

[31:12] had groundwater we've had

[31:16] reported I think2025 is right

[31:18] now reporting a little bit more

[31:20] than 1.2 million acre feet

[31:21] so2025 might be the highest

[31:24] amount of groundwater use

[31:26] reported and as you can see

[31:28] irrigation is the number one

[31:30] user of groundwater followed by

[31:31] public water supply.

[31:38] for example as some comparisons

[31:40] the ogallala panhandle 1.2

[31:43] million allocated we get

[31:46] about500,000 acre feet reported

[31:48] Ogallala northwest that's

[31:51] theogallala not in the panhandle

[31:53] of Ogloma and there's

[31:54] interest in the imron River

[31:57] alluvium terrace aquifer again

[31:59] allocated versus reported about

[32:02] a quarter of that is used

[32:02] statewide in Oklahoma

[32:06] 42 million acre feet is

[32:10] allocated 1.2 million is

[32:12] reported and for comparison

[32:14] because I know a lot of us don't

[32:16] think in a re feet Oklahoma City

[32:19] uses about 1540 acre feet this

[32:22] is in2025 Oklahoma City only

[32:24] uses surface water. this was

[32:25] just for a comparison

[32:26] so

[32:28] Oklahoma City uses a lot of

[32:29] water

[32:32] it's kind of comparable to some

[32:33] of these aquifers

[32:36] the city of Enid is the largest

[32:38] groundwater user in the state of

[32:40] Oklahoma 93,000 acre feet

[32:42] allocated they report 18 about

[32:43] 18 1000 acre feet

[32:50] this is a slide showing how much

[32:52] water use is reported per

[32:54] aquifer the couple of numbers

[32:55] that I want to focus on are the

[32:58] top three on the left that's the

[33:01] ogallala rush springs and

[33:03] theakkota sandstone is below the

[33:04] ogallala out in the panhandle.

[33:06] those are the top three

[33:08] groundwater aquifers that are

[33:10] used and the number one alluvium

[33:12] terra aquifer and that's just

[33:15] the sand deposits of the rivers

[33:17] the number one is the imarron

[33:17] river allu

[33:20] vi terraaquiver those are the

[33:21] four highest used aquifers in

[33:21] the state of Oklahoma.

[33:26] these are a couple of

[33:30] diagrams maps of theogallala

[33:32] aquifer the top one is the

[33:36] percent depletion that's the

[33:38] percentage of groundwater that's

[33:40] been depleted compared to

[33:42] predevelopment when we start to

[33:44] have a a lot of center pivots

[33:48] going in in the 1950s the purple

[33:50] and red are where saturated

[33:53] thicknesses over50% depleted

[33:56] it might also be locations where

[33:57] there's not much saturated

[33:58] thickness

[33:58] and then the bottom

[34:02] and what I mean by saturated

[34:06] thickness is you have an aquifer

[34:09] that might be this thick and

[34:10] you saturated thickness may only

[34:14] be the bottom75% and so that's

[34:15] what I mean by saturated

[34:18] thickness. The bottom figure of

[34:20] the ogallala and the panhandle

[34:24] basically shows are an

[34:26] estimate of how many years

[34:29] until that portion of the

[34:30] aquifer is depleted and this is

[34:32] based off of some back of the

[34:34] envelope calculations that we

[34:36] did assuming you had a70 feet of

[34:38] saturated thickness and we're

[34:42] pumping at or could pump at250

[34:43] gallons a minute and those

[34:45] are very minimum amounts so as

[34:46] you can see theres some portions

[34:48] of the aquifer that there's not

[34:52] as much saturation to be able

[34:53] to continue pumping

[34:55] anything over green is what

[34:57] we're estimating over 100 years

[34:58] left in the Ogolana aquifer.

[35:06] this

[35:11] at current pumping rates and

[35:13] declines actually it's at

[35:14] current declines of water use

[35:20] or at at current saturated at

[35:22] current saturated thickness

[35:25] pumping at current rates and

[35:26] showing those current declines

[35:29] that's how many years that we

[35:32] anticipate or or estimating

[35:34] at this time we have a contract

[35:35] with the US Geological Survey at

[35:38] the moment to update our equal

[35:40] proportionate share maximum

[35:41] yield calculations and as part

[35:42] of that groundwater model

[35:44] they'll be doing some estimates

[35:46] very similar to this but this is

[35:47] a kind of preliminary

[35:49] numbers just to say hey this is

[35:49] kind of what we're looking at

[35:54] and then this is the permits

[35:55] that map with the permits

[35:58] overlaid on top of that and it

[35:59] kind of shows where the aquifer

[35:59] is being used

[36:02] I believe in Texas County and

[36:03] the north

[36:06] west portion of that where we

[36:06] see some of the quote

[36:09] insufficient saturation or0 to20

[36:12] feet of years remaining we see a

[36:13] lot of permits out there so that

[36:14] that's an area we probably need

[36:16] to start might be an area of

[36:17] concern

[36:24] to go out there and collect a

[36:26] little bit more data or talk

[36:28] with the landowners and ask is

[36:29] this kind of what you're seeing

[36:32] so again this is a kind of

[36:34] our preliminary map to say hey

[36:36] this is kind of what's going on

[36:38] you don't know what's going

[36:39] on unless you look

[36:44] and then this is a movie of

[36:45] depletion of the okkullala

[36:47] panhandle aquifer from 1981

[36:51] showing the rates of decline the

[36:54] yellow is 30 to40 feet we start

[36:56] seeing reds60 to 80 ft of

[36:57] decline 80 to100 with the

[37:02] purple and over 100 ft with

[37:03] that deep red

[37:04] again

[37:12] that was only through the2020s

[37:12] and this only starts in 1981

[37:16] you can go on the web and find

[37:20] articles dating back to 19811982

[37:21] that say hey what are we going

[37:22] to do with the ogallala it's

[37:24] already declining at rates

[37:25] that are pretty quick

[37:28] and specifically in Oklahoma

[37:30] some of those articles so we

[37:32] already had declines in Oklahoma

[37:35] this just shows hey from 81

[37:38] to2022 I think it was we're

[37:40] seeing in some areas that have

[37:42] had 1100 ft over 100 ft of

[37:42] decline

[37:48] Rush springs is another aquifer

[37:50] that we have a little bit of

[37:52] concern about Caddo County as I

[37:53] mentioned was the fourth largest

[37:57] county where we have groundwater

[38:00] use the the top left graph there

[38:02] is a particular well that shows

[38:04] data dating back into the 1940s

[38:08] and that well has lost about540

[38:10] to50 feet of saturated thickness

[38:12] and

[38:16] that well on this map isn't

[38:18] even in the area where we see

[38:19] the largest declines

[38:28] and between2005 and2020 in

[38:29] catttlell County that's almost

[38:32] about 2 ft of average decline in

[38:33] that aquifer

[38:34] now in the state of Oklahoma we

[38:35] don't

[38:39] consider the surface water

[38:42] groundwater interaction and

[38:43] but it

[38:45] exists

[38:45] and

[38:50] fort Cobbreservoir relies a lot

[38:52] on groundwater that seeps out

[38:55] into the springs and streams and

[38:57] so that reservoir relies on that

[39:00] groundwater to keep it full and

[39:02] so the you know fort Cobbmaster

[39:05] Conservancy is interested in

[39:07] understanding you know if we

[39:08] have continued declines in the

[39:10] rush springs aquifer what effect

[39:12] does that have on that reservoir

[39:14] and their ability to provide

[39:15] drinking water to the public

[39:20] gar ver Wellington is another

[39:21] aquifer it's over central

[39:23] Oklahoma Oklahoma City gets

[39:24] their water from surface water

[39:28] a lot of the communities around

[39:30] Oklama City get their water from

[39:33] groundwater and the figure on

[39:36] the right is showing basically a

[39:38] subtraction between two datasets

[39:39] that we have and it shows in

[39:42] some areas between 1987 and2009

[39:46] we had up to 30 ft of loss of

[39:48] that thickness of that aquifer

[39:50] and so there are some areas that

[39:51] might be a little bit more

[39:52] concerned down at the moreore

[39:55] and Norman area. I know the city

[39:55] of Mustang also has

[39:59] wells in that dark red area and

[40:01] that's shown declines between

[40:04] those two time frames the top

[40:06] graph again is a well

[40:08] neareddmmon that's showing

[40:12] about40 feet drop 35.9 ft of

[40:13] drop in twenty5 years

[40:14] again

[40:18] not to be alarming but this is

[40:19] what kind of some of the data is

[40:22] showing and for us just to know

[40:22] this is what's kind of going on

[40:23] in some of these aquifers

[40:27] ga in Northork of the edriver

[40:29] this also is kind of a

[40:32] controversial area we have lurid

[40:34] altus that's downstream the the

[40:37] or down gradient that provides

[40:39] water for the luridaltus

[40:42] irrigation district and they

[40:44] have some concern on groundwater

[40:46] that's being used upstream

[40:50] and it's ability to provide

[40:53] any water to that reservoir. So

[40:53] what happens is we have

[40:57] rainfall some of that soaks into

[40:59] the ground some of it runs off

[41:01] the reservoir captures what's

[41:02] runs off. there's some of that

[41:04] water that soaks in and leaks

[41:07] out and that's what they're kind

[41:08] of concerned with so they're

[41:09] interested in knowing how much

[41:10] of that groundwater that seeps

[41:14] out fills in that aquifer and

[41:16] so from2015 to2025 in the north

[41:18] fork of the red there's just one

[41:20] well in particular there that we

[41:22] pulled up some data that top

[41:23] figure shows about 16 ft of

[41:23] drawdown for an a

[41:26] qui f er that's probably not too

[41:30] thick in that area. maybe 100

[41:31] ft in that area

[41:34] some of these alluvium teris

[41:37] aquifers are really thin 30 ft

[41:39] of of thickness is all some of

[41:41] them have a little bit more 100

[41:44] to120 feet of thickness. rush

[41:46] springs is about 30 ft

[41:48] thick on average that's a

[41:50] bedrock aquifer garber

[41:51] wellington maybe average 3 to500

[41:51] feet

[41:54] question

[42:01] you're recognized thank you Mr

[42:03] Chair you talked about that

[42:05] Altaslake that irrigation

[42:07] district and then the people up

[42:09] above it do is do you feel

[42:11] there's a correlation with you

[42:12] know the lake is it hurting the

[42:14] people up above or the people up

[42:15] above hurting the lake do you

[42:18] do you see a correlation between

[42:19] the two

[42:22] I think any any drop of water

[42:24] you take out of a system is

[42:26] going to affect that system to a

[42:28] certain extent and I think there

[42:29] needs to be a little bit more

[42:30] let's look at this a little bit

[42:33] more if this is a concern you

[42:35] know if I take a drink out of a

[42:38] cup of water my son's cup of

[42:39] water he might get aggravated at

[42:40] me cause that's one less drink

[42:42] that he would have or if it's a

[42:43] coke for sure he would get

[42:44] aggravated at me but do think

[42:48] that if there are any drop of

[42:49] water that's taken out does have

[42:49] an effect on the

[42:52] system so I think it's something

[42:53] that we would need to look at a

[42:53] little bit more.

[42:56] is that a good kind of waffling

[42:57] on the fence answer for you

[43:02] this is a long term water level

[43:03] responses in some of these

[43:04] aquifers. What I really want to

[43:06] point out here is it's really

[43:08] kind of it's hard to read but

[43:10] the gray areas on each one of

[43:11] these graphs going left to right

[43:13] and they start about 1900 and

[43:14] the water levels kind of kick up

[43:16] whether in the fiftiess or60s

[43:18] and these are just kind of

[43:19] average water levels but what I

[43:21] want to show on this graph is

[43:22] like a little gray areas that

[43:25] are going from the top to

[43:28] bottom are are drought periods

[43:29] and when we go into a drought

[43:29] these

[43:32] aquifers definitely respond they

[43:35] the water is either being taken

[43:36] out and not replenished through

[43:38] rainfall or some of it's leaking

[43:42] out into the creeks providing

[43:43] base flow but there's def

[43:44] there's a correlation between

[43:46] some of our droughts and the

[43:47] water levels in the aquifer

[43:52] so that's kind of the current

[43:54] conditions at the water board is

[43:56] sc specifically and water rights

[43:57] what we what we're looking at

[44:00] what I want to do is talk about

[44:02] how we're restoring core

[44:04] capacity if there's any

[44:06] questions or what I've kind of

[44:08] presented as I go through the

[44:10] rest of this presentation feel

[44:11] free to ask

[44:15] Over the last 2 to 4 years we've

[44:17] gotten an influx of some

[44:20] appropriations to help

[44:21] restore some of our core

[44:22] capacity we've talked about this

[44:23] Julie's talked about it at the

[44:26] governor's water conference and

[44:28] we've been able to hire just a

[44:30] little bit more staff in

[44:32] the2010s we had again I

[44:34] mentioned we had budget cuts we

[44:35] closed all of our offices

[44:37] positions weren't rehired we had

[44:38] about6 people running our

[44:39] permitting

[44:42] permitting department

[44:46] what we've done over the last

[44:48] five years is we've adjusted

[44:49] some of our outdated fee

[44:51] structures and then we requested

[44:54] those appropriations that

[44:56] representative Newton has a

[44:59] championed at least for

[45:01] groundwater and groundwater

[45:02] compliance. so we've been

[45:04] addressing a backlog of

[45:06] applications basic housekeeping

[45:07] things like that

[45:10] and of course there's Julie at

[45:12] our governor's our conference

[45:14] who was probably giving that

[45:15] that talk right there we need to

[45:15] restore core capacity

[45:19] She came into my office as we

[45:20] were going over that and it's

[45:22] like you're not going to use

[45:24] that so this graph shows

[45:28] basically the number of staff

[45:29] that we've had for our

[45:31] permitting and as you can see

[45:36] there throughout2019 to2021,22

[45:39] we only had about5 or6 staff and

[45:42] through some of those raising

[45:43] fees we look at other states

[45:46] what are other states doing if

[45:47] they're they're raising their

[45:47] rates we're kind of kind of

[45:48] going

[45:49] into

[45:52] seeing how much time permitting

[45:54] process takes how much of what

[45:55] that cost is we're looking at

[45:57] what other states are doing and

[46:00] we're adjusting those fee rates

[46:03] for a permit application based

[46:06] off of those numbers so we've in

[46:08] adjusted that fee rates we've

[46:09] gotten the additional

[46:10] appropriations and we'll be able

[46:13] to hire staff to even you know

[46:14] you don't know what you have in

[46:16] the cupboard unless you look so

[46:17] that's basically what it is

[46:23] and

[46:24] if you look at the bottom

[46:28] graph2025 that gray number is

[46:30] the total number of permit

[46:31] applications that we were able

[46:34] to process in2025 it corresponds

[46:36] to the number of staff we've

[46:39] been able to increase. if you

[46:42] look back to201w2ish area you

[46:45] also see high number there

[46:47] and but it's a lower amount of

[46:50] permits I think we were in kind

[46:51] of that phase of we got to get

[46:51] these

[46:52] permits out we got to get these

[46:54] permits out we got to get these

[46:56] permits out and we missed a lot

[46:58] of things there are probably a

[46:59] lot of issues with a lot of

[47:01] permits that were issued back

[47:04] around that time and so that's

[47:05] some of the housekeeping that we

[47:08] kind of need to look at. So for

[47:09] instance if you got a permit

[47:12] in2012 and you come back and

[47:13] oops we forgot to put this well

[47:14] on your in your

[47:20] notice public notice packet

[47:20] well when you do your amendment

[47:23] we put that well in that notice

[47:24] if you're coming back to add

[47:26] more water to your to your well

[47:27] so some of those housekeeping

[47:27] things

[47:30] What I'd like to point out is

[47:32] one of the things that we were

[47:34] told is that the water board

[47:34] takes so long to get these

[47:37] permits out and while that is

[47:40] true it's this interplay of

[47:42] you're applying for a water ride

[47:44] you just send in a piece of mail

[47:48] and it goes at the bottom of the

[47:49] stack and we work down

[47:54] and or an email and we get

[47:56] there we work on your permit we

[47:57] send you hey this is kind of

[47:58] wrong can you make these

[48:00] corrections? you put it down on

[48:01] your desk it sits there for two

[48:02] months and he's oh I've got a a

[48:05] I've got to fill that out and

[48:06] you send it back to us it goes

[48:07] back to the bottom of the list

[48:10] and what we started doing after

[48:12] talking with the state of Texas

[48:14] I know sorry we got an idea from

[48:16] Texas but anyway they said hey

[48:19] if you sit down with your with

[48:20] your people who want permits it

[48:22] helps out with that process a

[48:23] lot more. who would have thought

[48:24] if you actually sat down with

[48:26] somebody right? So when you

[48:28] apply for a permit we highly

[48:30] recommend you come in and sit

[48:32] down with us and what we found

[48:34] is that knocks off about 3

[48:34] months off of that process time

[48:38] and so if you come in and sit

[48:40] down with us we help you fill it

[48:41] out it's basically ready to go.

[48:44] Our permanit specialist they see

[48:46] that face to face connection and

[48:47] they say oh Josh I really like

[48:49] you know we had such a great

[48:50] time filling out your

[48:51] application. I'm gonna go finish

[48:53] it out right now goes through

[48:54] the process he gets his notice

[48:56] packets you know relatively

[48:58] quickly versus someone that's

[49:01] sends in those packets and it it

[49:04] might wait but the amount of

[49:05] time that these permits have

[49:08] taken if you have an appointment

[49:10] with us it usually knocks about

[49:10] three months off of that

[49:11] process.

[49:14] and that's just data from

[49:17] late2023 through2025 we started

[49:17] keeping track of that

[49:22] the number of complaints we get,

[49:25] you know previous to about 2020

[49:26] there was one guy you know on

[49:28] the phone he'd be on the phone

[49:31] he'd write it down and if he got

[49:32] out in the field to check it out

[49:36] who knows but as we started

[49:38] getting a little bit of that

[49:40] core capacity back we're able to

[49:44] hire an additional person and we

[49:45] can actually go out and

[49:48] investigate these complaints is

[49:49] this well too close? Is there

[49:51] too much pumping going on?

[49:53] what's the issue here?2 people

[49:54] fighting I think we had a

[49:58] complaint about two folks out in

[50:00] the panhandle and one of them

[50:02] said meet me at the stockyards

[50:04] and we'll finish this out and

[50:05] sure enough they met at the

[50:07] stockyards and had a fistfight

[50:08] and the well driller was sitting

[50:10] there. what am I supposed to do?

[50:11] they're on the phone with us

[50:13] take photos I mean I don't I

[50:13] don't know

[50:17] so these issues are there's more

[50:20] issues that are rising people

[50:22] are starting to rely on us a

[50:23] little bit more to help them

[50:26] figure out a lot of these

[50:26] complaints and water issues

[50:30] I'd mentioned we have a well

[50:32] drillers program that the well

[50:34] drillers are now required to

[50:37] submit a intent to drill for

[50:38] anything that requires a permit

[50:41] not for domestic use. this is an

[50:43] example on the bottom of what

[50:46] we're seeing out there there's a

[50:48] hole or cavity that's opened up

[50:50] and you can see some cement

[50:52] around that well. Well that

[50:54] cement is supposed to be 10 to20

[50:55] feet depending on the

[50:56] circumstance and that well

[50:57] driller just put in maybe foot

[51:01] and something bad happened to

[51:01] this

[51:04] that program was established in

[51:05] 1973

[51:11] and our well drillers go out

[51:12] and they inspect some of these

[51:13] wells

[51:18] through those budget cuts we

[51:21] were down to about two staff and

[51:22] they didn't have enough time to

[51:24] go out and do well inspections.

[51:28] so here's a graph showing the

[51:30] number of well inspections we

[51:32] hired some folks in late2024 and

[51:34] we've been able to increase our

[51:36] well inspections visiting

[51:37] with those

[51:40] well drillers making those

[51:42] connections and our

[51:46] those people's names are getting

[51:48] out there our staff so they know

[51:50] oh Jason's coming out or

[51:51] Charlie's coming out or whatever

[51:54] and so it's just getting a lot

[51:55] more field presence over the

[51:57] last couple of years with those

[51:59] slight increases in

[51:59] appropriations

[52:04] Neil I got I do have a question

[52:06] from vice chairir west and just

[52:08] a couple of pages back we're

[52:09] gonna try to catch them as we go

[52:09] if you don't mind.

[52:12] thank you Mr Chairman.

[52:16] go

[52:16] a couple of questions

[52:22] the field offices that what what

[52:23] was their job

[52:27] so the field offices we'd have

[52:30] you know a couple of guys

[52:32] Kim was Kim Suivan was his name

[52:35] or Hank you know down in the law

[52:38] in office and if you had you

[52:38] know permit questions you

[52:40] wouldn't have to drive all the

[52:42] way to Oklahoma City and they

[52:43] may even know you by name. we

[52:45] had those present that presence

[52:48] out there for years for decades

[52:50] and so their job was to kind of

[52:52] do a little bit of everything

[52:53] help people with permits and

[52:53] help them fill it out

[52:56] they may go do some of these

[52:57] well inspections I talked about

[52:59] or if there was a complaint they

[53:00] were down there and they would

[53:02] go talk with people and

[53:04] figure it out. So we had offices

[53:09] in Tulsa in Mccalister in

[53:13] Woodward and in lawwin and over

[53:15] the years we closed down those

[53:17] offices so their jobs were

[53:18] basically some of this core

[53:20] capacity I was talking about

[53:22] that we're able to hire staff to

[53:23] be able to go fill those pos

[53:25] ition s back now but we're

[53:26] stationed in Oklahoma City.

[53:32] you recognized thank you

[53:33] chairman

[53:36] what

[53:40] what positions were saved

[53:46] positions you you cut all the

[53:47] field offices were closed

[53:49] position's not hard

[53:54] so throughout the20tens what

[53:59] positions were kept so we had

[54:02] positions in our water rights

[54:04] permitting so we're basically

[54:06] just lowering the number of

[54:07] staff that we had we're

[54:08] decreasing the size of

[54:10] government so where we may have

[54:12] had 10 perbiting staff at you

[54:16] know at that point we had ive we

[54:18] may have had 3 or4 people in our

[54:19] well drillers program we dropped

[54:20] that to two the people that were

[54:21] working

[54:24] on the technical studies that

[54:25] may have that's always kind of

[54:26] traditionally been about two

[54:30] people so those were the types

[54:31] of positions so when you cut

[54:34] those down the amount of time

[54:37] for applications goes up we make

[54:38] there are more mistakes made on

[54:40] some of these applications or

[54:42] we're not able to go out and

[54:44] inspect wells to make sure there

[54:45] are good well drillers out there

[54:45] drilling those wells

[54:51] d d ition al follow up you're

[54:53] recognized thank you Mr

[54:53] chairirman

[54:56] of the positions that

[55:02] you terminated or was to not you

[55:04] but was terminated and the ones

[55:05] that were kept

[55:06] especially

[55:10] which ones of those do you think

[55:11] were

[55:12] the most important

[55:15] that's a very good question

[55:18] I would have to think about that

[55:22] it's kind of like if you took

[55:24] the House of Representatives and

[55:25] cut out half of everybody

[55:30] right and you now have

[55:35] now you have to cover twice as

[55:38] much area and had to talk with

[55:40] twice as many constituents and

[55:42] now the question is which one of

[55:45] those representatives were the

[55:47] most important you know that's

[55:48] that's a tricky question. So I

[55:49] would would have to think about

[55:50] it it's really good

[55:55] OK continue on thank you sir

[56:01] So I mentioned the intent to

[56:02] drill process this is probably

[56:06] one of the great examples of the

[56:09] issues that have come up the

[56:15] map here shows three wells that

[56:16] were drilled on an application

[56:18] and

[56:22] traditionally what would happen

[56:24] is hey I'm going to apply for a

[56:26] permit they wouldn't call us

[56:28] they call the well driller and

[56:29] they would say hey come drill my

[56:30] wells. I know exactly where I

[56:32] want to put them. I want to see

[56:34] if there's water there and then

[56:35] we're gonna drill them and then

[56:36] I'll go apply for a permit

[56:39] so in this case that's what the

[56:40] well driller did they drilled

[56:44] these three wells and the found

[56:46] you know good water and so

[56:49] they sent in their application

[56:50] to go to notice and it was

[56:50] protested

[56:53] and right across the street

[56:54] where the yellow arrow is

[56:57] pointed it's another well within

[56:58] a couple 100 ft. it doesn't meet

[56:59] that well spacing

[57:00] and

[57:02] this went to a hearing

[57:07] and the hearing examiner issued

[57:10] a order and the hearing examiner

[57:14] said that well that's closest

[57:15] because there is already a

[57:16] permit in place and it doesn't

[57:19] meet well spacing that well over

[57:22] on to the left cannot be used.

[57:25] it's not supposed to be used so

[57:26] the person who applied for this

[57:28] permit got their perm permit

[57:30] they can't use that well that

[57:32] well probably costs them

[57:33] anywhere from60, to100,000

[57:33] dollars to d

[57:36] ri ll that the landowner lost

[57:37] out on

[57:40] and it put our board in such a

[57:42] difficult position that you just

[57:44] spent $100,000 to drill your

[57:46] well and we're telling you you

[57:47] can't use it because you don't

[57:48] need well spacing because you

[57:50] drilled your wells before you

[57:52] talked with us or put in a

[57:52] permit application

[57:54] so again what the intent to

[57:56] drill process would now do if

[57:58] this person had gone to notice

[58:01] or had come to us, had gotten

[58:02] their permit the well driller

[58:04] would have put in this permit

[58:05] number they would have talked to

[58:06] us and we just said hey that

[58:08] well over on the left can't be

[58:09] drilled because there's another

[58:11] well close too close to your

[58:13] permit. so that's the intent to

[58:14] drill process we have a number

[58:18] of these that are bored had to

[58:20] decline the use of a well or

[58:22] they made some restrictions on

[58:23] other wells sometimes

[58:26] if they don't like the board's

[58:30] decision this can go to court

[58:30] and we have a couple of cases

[58:34] the since this went into

[58:38] place we've had about495 of

[58:40] those that have come through and

[58:42] we've approved about 388 of

[58:44] those intend to drills that the

[58:45] well driller has submitted

[58:46] so the the process

[58:50] let let me interrupt I think

[58:51] I have a question on that

[58:52] subject right quick before we

[58:54] leave that representative you're

[58:55] recognized

[59:01] Thank you chair. what what's

[59:02] the minimum feet you like

[59:05] between what's the minimum

[59:05] fee between whales

[59:12] so domestic use will start there

[59:13] if everybody in this room has a

[59:15] domestic well, actually you can

[59:16] place them right next to each

[59:20] other as far as you know you are

[59:23] and we would allow that if for

[59:25] if it's for any beneficial uses

[59:27] that's when we'll look at well

[59:28] spacing distances and what we

[59:30] had for instance when we'd get

[59:34] when we would get applications

[59:36] for marijuana farms as you know

[59:37] some of those would be close to

[59:42] cities or towns or inside a a

[59:43] subdivision or close by and the

[59:45] well spacing is tighter and they

[59:49] couldn't meet that 100,320 well

[59:52] spacing distance. some aquifers

[59:53] don't have a well spacing

[59:55] distance at this point. there

[59:57] were some rules that were put

[1:00:00] into place that changed that

[1:00:01] allowed us to

[1:00:02] est ab li sh walls spacing

[1:00:08] statewide so that distance is

[1:00:11] 1320 ft for bedrock aquifers if

[1:00:12] there's a permit they need to

[1:00:14] meet that. Now if it's a small

[1:00:16] piece of land you're putting in

[1:00:18] a pecan orchard or something on

[1:00:20] 10 acres and you can't meet that

[1:00:22] you would request a well

[1:00:24] spacing exception we'd take a

[1:00:25] look at that and say well you do

[1:00:26] have a right to use that water

[1:00:27] will allow it this time

[1:00:30] so

[1:00:32] so

[1:00:35] like right here we've got this

[1:00:38] pivot it's got 3 wells so

[1:00:41] is that not in

[1:00:46] the spacing as far as the

[1:00:48] well spacing how so is that all

[1:00:50] is it is it fine if it's on the

[1:00:51] same permit and it's the same

[1:00:54] user yeah if that's a good point

[1:00:56] if you're putting in your wells

[1:00:57] on your own property you don't

[1:00:59] have to meet that well spacing

[1:01:00] requirement it's just we're

[1:01:02] wanting to make sure we are

[1:01:03] providing enough protection for

[1:01:04] the people that are around you

[1:01:07] thank you you're welcome

[1:01:12] Again I deal with this stuff

[1:01:14] every day and sometimes I might

[1:01:14] not explain something so feel

[1:01:17] free to ask questions there are

[1:01:17] no silly questions

[1:01:22] annual water use reporting again

[1:01:24] we're trying to store restore

[1:01:26] core capacity and we pulled

[1:01:30] our2025 water use and looked at

[1:01:31] how many people are or aren't

[1:01:31] reporting

[1:01:33] and

[1:01:40] for2025 we had about 1000 of

[1:01:44] those 13,000 permits or

[1:01:46] 1w2,000 permits that did not

[1:01:48] report that we sent out cards to

[1:01:50] water use cards and

[1:01:54] this is just a graph of showing

[1:01:56] or a map showing where those

[1:01:58] people are located that did not

[1:02:00] submit water use reports to us

[1:02:06] so what we do is we pull that

[1:02:08] number it was about 1000 we send

[1:02:11] out we usually send out a

[1:02:14] late notice in July. This was

[1:02:16] after that late notice we still

[1:02:18] had about 10an0 that didn't come

[1:02:20] into compliance and we reached

[1:02:24] out and through that process

[1:02:25] got that number down to

[1:02:27] about500. now we're trying to

[1:02:28] figure out where do we go

[1:02:30] because we've never been here

[1:02:32] before we've never been to the

[1:02:33] point where

[1:02:36] we've looked at this data it's a

[1:02:38] requirement do we send out a

[1:02:40] notice of violation do we is are

[1:02:43] there fines associated with this

[1:02:44] for not reporting if you haven't

[1:02:46] been reporting for years? is

[1:02:50] there a penalty for that and

[1:02:51] traditionally there hasn't been

[1:02:52] you just you do or you don't

[1:02:53] report it

[1:03:00] and out of those546 permits

[1:03:02] there's about 135 that didn't

[1:03:04] report in2024 and2025.

[1:03:06] so what do you do? do you

[1:03:10] do you go knock on their door?

[1:03:11] do you call them

[1:03:12] that you know they won't answer

[1:03:14] the door you come oh I'm not I'm

[1:03:18] not home so we'll see what

[1:03:21] that looks like and every year

[1:03:22] that we we've done this in2024

[1:03:24] and2025 we pulled the water use

[1:03:26] we tried to figure out who it

[1:03:28] has or hasn't reported and it

[1:03:31] takes about675 hours to do that

[1:03:31] of staff time

[1:03:34] and part of that is because our

[1:03:38] databases are2025 years old and

[1:03:40] we're working on

[1:03:41] modernization

[1:03:44] so our databases aren't able to

[1:03:46] tell us information that we need

[1:03:48] to know at this point so we have

[1:03:49] to do some of that manually

[1:03:52] we're also doing more

[1:03:54] outreachgain I've said we're

[1:03:55] trying to restore core capacity

[1:03:57] we've hired some people over the

[1:04:00] last couple of years and we're

[1:04:02] actually trying to do like a

[1:04:05] mobile field office we've gone

[1:04:08] out toyyan we've gone to other

[1:04:11] areas we've set up shop at the

[1:04:16] the local extension office

[1:04:18] or whatnot I think somebody down

[1:04:19] in Altus invited us to

[1:04:24] their had set set a place up

[1:04:26] for us to go to and we've gotten

[1:04:28] pretty good response. people are

[1:04:30] coming in and trying to up their

[1:04:34] update their permits so it's

[1:04:35] just easier for us sometimes to

[1:04:36] go out and put that notice out

[1:04:40] there, posted on the web and

[1:04:41] people have been taking

[1:04:41] advantage of that

[1:04:45] we've also sent out a water use

[1:04:46] card to say hey you're expect

[1:04:48] your water use report to come to

[1:04:50] you here in the next couple of

[1:04:52] months. this next year

[1:04:56] for 20 six's water use we should

[1:04:58] be able to have a pay portal

[1:04:59] where people can go in and

[1:05:01] report that use again we're

[1:05:04] modernizing our databases and

[1:05:05] our ability to shore up some of

[1:05:06] this

[1:05:09] so this is some of the outreach

[1:05:12] some of these figures are

[1:05:14] picturesrs sitting down with

[1:05:17] some of the patrons we work with

[1:05:18] the one in the top in the middle

[1:05:22] we went out and did some

[1:05:24] outreach with a well driller who

[1:05:26] was drilling a a well out near

[1:05:28] Eri, Oklahoma. He invited us out

[1:05:30] so that some of our staff could

[1:05:31] see what an actual groundwater

[1:05:33] well looks like from municipal

[1:05:33] use

[1:05:36] bottomttom left that's I believe

[1:05:38] one of our board members showing

[1:05:40] us peanuts out in western

[1:05:41] Oklahoma

[1:05:46] so looking forward again we had

[1:05:49] a waste enforcement sent Bill259

[1:05:52] that went through this last year

[1:05:53] there was a piece of funding

[1:05:56] that came in for that I believe

[1:05:59] it was 925,000 and what we're

[1:06:02] looking at is our annual water

[1:06:03] use reporting do we

[1:06:06] what are penalties noticeices

[1:06:08] of the violations, how we get

[1:06:09] out there to make sure people

[1:06:11] are reporting their use or using

[1:06:14] their permits correctly

[1:06:16] there's been some talk about

[1:06:18] data centers and groundwa use

[1:06:20] regulated underneath that

[1:06:21] uhenter bill259

[1:06:24] and again that huge portion of

[1:06:26] that so waste enforcement that

[1:06:27] gives the waterboard some

[1:06:30] authority to go out there and

[1:06:34] try to get people into

[1:06:34] compliance

[1:06:39] our top priority priorities down

[1:06:41] there at the bottom is known

[1:06:43] unauthorized use is there

[1:06:44] repeated noncompliance how do we

[1:06:47] do that we're looking at a

[1:06:50] little bit at open ET data that

[1:06:54] t top is a photo or a satellite

[1:06:56] image of some circles crop

[1:06:58] circles out that might be in

[1:07:00] western Oklahoma so we look at

[1:07:02] those we compare to dedicated

[1:07:06] lands and we say ok well there's

[1:07:07] a there's a c

[1:07:09] c ro p circle that doesn't have

[1:07:10] dedicated lands maybe we need to

[1:07:12] go talk with the landowner and

[1:07:14] say hey let's update your

[1:07:15] permit

[1:07:18] so we've actually gone out in

[1:07:20] the field to field verify some

[1:07:21] of that use

[1:07:26] and we across we visited

[1:07:28] about60 sites that have that

[1:07:32] have had use but they're no

[1:07:36] permit and I did have an updated

[1:07:38] slide but I think this one is

[1:07:41] also a little movie here if the

[1:07:42] people in the back can play

[1:07:43] through that

[1:07:46] basicallysically what this is

[1:07:48] going to show is a a center

[1:07:51] pivot going in and right

[1:07:52] there in the middle of the

[1:07:55] screen. I don't know no yeah is

[1:07:55] there

[1:08:05] And I believe there was no

[1:08:06] permit on this day dedicated

[1:08:07] land.

[1:08:10] and part of it's probably maybe

[1:08:12] some education as well like oh I

[1:08:13] didn't know I needed a permit

[1:08:16] there's been talk about

[1:08:18] evapotranspiration data that

[1:08:20] I've shown can we estimate how

[1:08:22] much water use has been used

[1:08:26] on this plot of land and the

[1:08:27] short answer is we're not there

[1:08:30] yet the data isn't detailed

[1:08:31] enough to do an estimate of how

[1:08:34] much water is used on a

[1:08:36] particular plot this time series

[1:08:37] shows the irrigation cycles

[1:08:37] through time.

[1:08:52] we've also compared public water

[1:08:56] supply permits to our

[1:08:59] dedicated lands and our

[1:09:01] permit locations and we found

[1:09:02] there's a discrepancy to what

[1:09:05] the DEcu has in there because

[1:09:08] they they regulate public

[1:09:10] water supply use from public

[1:09:11] water supply wells so they have

[1:09:13] an inventory of all those public

[1:09:15] water supply wells we compared

[1:09:17] them to our permits we flagged

[1:09:18] numerous public water supply

[1:09:21] locations that we need to go

[1:09:22] take a look at and there's kind

[1:09:24] of a a running theme as

[1:09:29] how many public water supply

[1:09:32] permits are probably

[1:09:34] noncompliant and the joke is or

[1:09:36] not a joke is that all of them

[1:09:38] there's probably an issue with

[1:09:40] all public water supply permits

[1:09:42] in the state of Oklahoma like

[1:09:44] they just again call a well

[1:09:46] driller come drill a well and

[1:09:47] they drill it and they've not

[1:09:48] gone to notice for that location

[1:09:51] so that's something we're taking

[1:09:52] a look at

[1:09:55] we've identified 330 potential

[1:09:57] sites where there might be some

[1:09:57] issues

[1:10:00] Again this is restoring our core

[1:10:02] capacity with the additional

[1:10:03] funding that we've had over the

[1:10:04] last several years

[1:10:08] as an example this is the city

[1:10:10] of Lehigh we just went out for a

[1:10:12] site visit. they had some

[1:10:12] questions on drilling a well.

[1:10:14] theres a well driller on site

[1:10:16] and we noticed that some of

[1:10:17] their wells particularly that

[1:10:21] well number7 the green hashed

[1:10:24] area here is our they're

[1:10:27] dedicated land and the green

[1:10:29] boxes are where they said that

[1:10:30] they were where they went to

[1:10:33] notice for their wells and that

[1:10:34] well7 is clearly outside of that

[1:10:38] so they at least have one well

[1:10:40] that's not necessarily or that

[1:10:41] may be

[1:10:43] without

[1:10:44] for lack of better words illegal

[1:10:50] these so

[1:10:57] if we send out water use reports

[1:10:57] and

[1:11:00] you sold your property and no

[1:11:02] longer own it but it goes to you

[1:11:04] you may write on that water use

[1:11:05] report and say I no longer own

[1:11:08] this land and send it back. we

[1:11:09] still don't know who owns that

[1:11:10] land but we flag it in our

[1:11:13] database not to send a water use

[1:11:14] report

[1:11:14] out next year to you

[1:11:18] there's a permit the next guy or

[1:11:20] girl comes up and buys your

[1:11:22] property and starts irrigating

[1:11:23] we don't know who to send that

[1:11:27] water use report to so we've got

[1:11:30] about 3500 of these permits out

[1:11:33] of 123,500 permits we don't know

[1:11:35] who owns that property if

[1:11:36] they're using if they're not

[1:11:39] using water so again this is

[1:11:39] like

[1:11:42] restoring corp capacity looking

[1:11:44] in our cupboards seeing what's

[1:11:46] there and saying oh this is an

[1:11:47] issue that we may want to

[1:11:47] address

[1:11:55] and this is an example of

[1:11:58] looking at that open ET and our

[1:12:02] dedicated lands and of these

[1:12:04] permits that we don't know who

[1:12:06] the owner is and some of those

[1:12:08] squares there's still water

[1:12:10] being used some of them there

[1:12:12] isn't so those permits probably

[1:12:14] can be canceled but the ones

[1:12:16] that do have some open ET

[1:12:18] data showing use we need to

[1:12:19] visit with those landowners

[1:12:24] and that's all I have on water

[1:12:26] rightsdministration andjulie is

[1:12:28] going to take over and I believe

[1:12:29] talk about

[1:12:31] comprehensive wire plan and

[1:12:31] other areas

[1:12:34] are there any questions

[1:12:39] recognise him thank you for

[1:12:41] being here we'll turn we'll

[1:12:42] you're red and

[1:12:46] thank you Miss Neal for that

[1:12:47] information. Are there any other

[1:12:48] questions for Mr Neal before he

[1:12:53] OK.rectorcunningham thank you

[1:13:00] Yesir. can everyone hear me?

[1:13:04] appreciate certainly

[1:13:07] appreciate your invitation

[1:13:08] today you know water is as you

[1:13:11] all know, extremely extremely

[1:13:12] important especially in these

[1:13:15] drought times when folks are

[1:13:17] talking about it so as you

[1:13:18] see we're making a lot of

[1:13:20] improvements we really wanted to

[1:13:22] you to understand what all

[1:13:24] goes into water rights

[1:13:25] administration that there's a

[1:13:28] lot of laws on the books that

[1:13:29] require us to do all this

[1:13:31] maintenance and and and and just

[1:13:32] looking

[1:13:34] at land title and things like

[1:13:36] that it makes these applications

[1:13:38] a lot more complicated so we are

[1:13:40] certainly trying to move on.

[1:13:41] So I'm going to be what

[1:13:41] what is our time

[1:13:42] goal here

[1:13:48] you got about 20 minutes 20

[1:13:50] minutes OK so I'm gonna zip

[1:13:52] through these 15 maybe we will

[1:13:54] ok we will talk I will talk a

[1:13:55] little bit about the

[1:13:56] comprehensive water plan that we

[1:13:59] finalized last fall. we were

[1:14:00] able to get some of the

[1:14:02] recommendations through the

[1:14:04] legislative process last year as

[1:14:06] well as budget recommendations

[1:14:08] but this process so we're

[1:14:11] required by statute to update

[1:14:14] the state's comprehensive water

[1:14:15] plan every 10 years and so

[1:14:15] this20

[1:14:19] 25 plan is just that so we start

[1:14:21] by looking at at at two

[1:14:23] separate things we update the

[1:14:26] water demand and supply

[1:14:28] projections and then look at

[1:14:30] those gaps we do that through

[1:14:34] 82s subbasins across the state

[1:14:36] and then there are

[1:14:38] recommendations and status

[1:14:39] reports for each one of those

[1:14:40] basins so that planners so that

[1:14:42] companies and businesses moving

[1:14:45] in municipalities ag

[1:14:45] producers industry

[1:14:50] can can use that data for to

[1:14:51] understand what's happening

[1:14:54] in their water supply with each

[1:14:56] sector and then the other part

[1:14:58] of it is the executive

[1:15:01] summary and all the technical

[1:15:03] work that goes into priority

[1:15:04] recommendations so that could be

[1:15:06] funding recommendations,

[1:15:08] recommendations for legislation

[1:15:10] recommendations for action,

[1:15:12] and and that was completed

[1:15:15] through a statewide multiyear

[1:15:15] public out

[1:15:18] re ach that some of you may have

[1:15:21] participated in so we had ive

[1:15:23] went a we had ive rounds of

[1:15:26] meetings in each of ive

[1:15:28] quadrants if you will of the

[1:15:30] state and came up with these

[1:15:32] summarize them and these

[1:15:33] recommendations as far as

[1:15:34] statewide recommendations. We

[1:15:36] also had four different work

[1:15:38] groups the the top one there

[1:15:40] is theokklahoma irrrigated

[1:15:42] agriculture Workroup and they

[1:15:43] made some recommendations and

[1:15:45] really it boiled down to the

[1:15:45] need for local management

[1:15:48] structures regionalized planning

[1:15:52] more more local planning and

[1:15:54] then broad stakeholder

[1:15:56] inclusion of other water users

[1:15:58] so not just the a community but

[1:15:59] the other water's users and

[1:16:01] demands in the area and then

[1:16:02] education geared toward better

[1:16:04] management, more accurate data

[1:16:06] collection broader real-time

[1:16:08] groundwater monitoring so we'll

[1:16:09] get into some of that but that

[1:16:11] we heard that not only from this

[1:16:12] work group but but really all

[1:16:15] over the state andris

[1:16:15] emphasized the

[1:16:19] the need for water data and all

[1:16:20] those maps that you saw so that

[1:16:22] we're that you all and and your

[1:16:23] constituents can really

[1:16:24] understand what's happening in

[1:16:26] your in your groundwater basins.

[1:16:28] So I'll just quickly go through

[1:16:30] these four there were4 main

[1:16:30] focus areas that we bundled

[1:16:33] these into infrastructure, water

[1:16:36] supply and storage so lakes and

[1:16:37] the actual physical supply

[1:16:40] conservation water policy and

[1:16:42] then data and information and

[1:16:44] really ultimate goal obviously

[1:16:44] long term water security and as

[1:16:45] all of you know

[1:16:48] there's not one magic bullet.

[1:16:50] there's just not water is very

[1:16:52] local I'll get into some

[1:16:54] water transfers and I know

[1:16:54] you're going to talk about that

[1:16:56] as well so I'll just move

[1:16:58] forward water infrastructure we

[1:17:00] did a need survey24 billion

[1:17:02] dollars of need we actually have

[1:17:03] a list of projects you can zoom

[1:17:04] into your legislative district

[1:17:06] and see where those projects

[1:17:07] are. this is certainly not

[1:17:09] comprehensive but it tells you

[1:17:10] emphasizes that you know there

[1:17:12] is a current24 billion dollars

[1:17:14] in in water and wastewater and

[1:17:15] flood control

[1:17:18] projects. that's not including

[1:17:20] dam rehabilitations necessarily.

[1:17:21] we don't have a comprehensive

[1:17:23] inventory of that but I know

[1:17:26] you all you all get it they're

[1:17:28] you know the last few years the

[1:17:30] Apa dollars came in you all

[1:17:32] dedicated over half a billion

[1:17:35] dollars to water and wastewater

[1:17:37] infrastructure. Last year you

[1:17:40] came back with another73 million

[1:17:41] dollars in water and wastewater

[1:17:44] funding uh26 million of

[1:17:45] that was aPpa interest

[1:17:48] ear ning s which is great we

[1:17:50] certainly love the fact that you

[1:17:52] know there's an acknowledgment

[1:17:53] of the need for for

[1:17:57] for these projects and 3 35

[1:18:00] million of it came into a new

[1:18:04] loan program that the water

[1:18:06] boardard will administer so we

[1:18:08] have several loan programs very

[1:18:10] low interest tripleA rated so

[1:18:11] it's the best interest rates

[1:18:13] ever that that anyone can

[1:18:14] get. Oklahohoma City and Tulsa

[1:18:16] and all the large cities are all

[1:18:19] borrowers in that program which

[1:18:21] actually helps the security and

[1:18:22] helps it helps lower that

[1:18:24] interest rate for the smaller

[1:18:26] borrowers so it the formula

[1:18:26] really works

[1:18:30] we administer one of the

[1:18:31] programs with with the

[1:18:32] department of

[1:18:33] nvironmentaluality. We asked

[1:18:35] for50 million recurring like

[1:18:38] I said we we we got73 million

[1:18:40] this year so we're really

[1:18:43] looking at one that investment

[1:18:44] to expanding technical

[1:18:46] assistance programs so actually

[1:18:49] assistants with you know for

[1:18:51] these communities and ag

[1:18:56] producers for long term

[1:18:56] planning capital planning

[1:18:58] and and conservation

[1:19:01] and then workforce is always one

[1:19:04] that we're looking at. so

[1:19:08] this is the the 1980 plan and

[1:19:12] the 1995 plan both both

[1:19:13] recommended

[1:19:14] water

[1:19:18] transfer that was that was

[1:19:20] how we're going to solve all of

[1:19:22] our problems is transfer it from

[1:19:23] east to west get water out to

[1:19:24] the panhound, get water out to

[1:19:26] Alus you know these these things

[1:19:27] are are

[1:19:32] are very, you know, obviously

[1:19:33] we have way more water in the

[1:19:34] east than we do in the west so

[1:19:35] it makes sense but the problem

[1:19:37] is cost right? that's always a

[1:19:38] problem who's going to pay for

[1:19:39] it? how are they going to be

[1:19:40] paid for? these numbers are

[1:19:42] actually from an update from

[1:19:44] the2012 plan and you can see

[1:19:47] that the construction the

[1:19:49] north that middle one there 13

[1:19:52] to20 billion dollars to go from

[1:19:54] the east all the way across the

[1:19:55] state to the west. those are

[1:19:57] in201w2 numbers so you can add

[1:19:57] about47

[1:20:00] % in addition to this cost so

[1:20:04] what the201w2 plan and this plan

[1:20:06] really said is let's let's look

[1:20:08] more locally and let's try to

[1:20:10] regionalize and find those

[1:20:12] solutions locally umennid is a

[1:20:14] prime example we actually funded

[1:20:16] through the FAP and the

[1:20:19] drinking water SrF program $350

[1:20:21] million they already had their

[1:20:23] water right in Ca Lake whichri

[1:20:24] will tell you you have to have

[1:20:25] your water right before you can

[1:20:26] before you can even think

[1:20:28] about transferring water. they

[1:20:30] had they had to build a wall ro

[1:20:31] raw water intake

[1:20:34] line they built a 70 mile

[1:20:36] transmission line a new water

[1:20:38] plant they actually broke

[1:20:40] actually I attended this ribbon

[1:20:42] cutting two weeks ago and so

[1:20:43] they are very very excited in

[1:20:45] this particular situationrish

[1:20:46] told you that they're all

[1:20:48] they're 100% on groundwater.

[1:20:50] this will allow them to blend

[1:20:52] surface water with groundwater

[1:20:55] and vastly extend their

[1:20:57] their capacity they can probably

[1:21:00] become suppliers for

[1:21:00] surrounding areas as well so

[1:21:01] this

[1:21:04] is a success story as far as a

[1:21:06] transfer. This took about 10

[1:21:08] years of discussing and planning

[1:21:10] and trying to get this in motion

[1:21:12] and trying to really

[1:21:13] educating and and convincing

[1:21:15] their citizens to pay for it and

[1:21:16] so they have to pay these loans

[1:21:18] back and so their citizens had

[1:21:21] to have a sales tax increase and

[1:21:22] and rate increases but now

[1:21:24] they've got water security for

[1:21:25] the foreseeable future

[1:21:28] the next the next

[1:21:30] recommendation was water supply

[1:21:32] and storage so this is you know,

[1:21:34] strengthening Oklahoma's dam

[1:21:35] safety program. I've been here

[1:21:36] before talking about the4700

[1:21:39] dams that we regulate that are

[1:21:42] over60 years in age so we've got

[1:21:43] a ton of infrastructure there

[1:21:44] was a big infrastructure

[1:21:47] construction boom over60 years

[1:21:49] ago and now they they need

[1:21:50] rehabilitation and we need to

[1:21:54] look at them for things

[1:21:55] like increased capacity. So our

[1:21:55] dams and

[1:21:58] our state are very important

[1:21:59] they not only hold back

[1:22:00] floodwater and help dissipate

[1:22:03] dissipate it but they hold water

[1:22:05] for drought times and so a lot

[1:22:07] of those dams are are very very

[1:22:08] very critical

[1:22:12] agwater conservation was

[1:22:14] included in this so that's still

[1:22:16] kind of a driving theme helping

[1:22:18] support local economic drivers

[1:22:20] modernizing our agricultural

[1:22:22] sector also in the eastern

[1:22:24] part of the state voluntary

[1:22:26] tourism and recreation related

[1:22:28] water conservation so looking at

[1:22:30] things like you know lowering

[1:22:32] interest rates for loans to

[1:22:34] communities that to fix their

[1:22:36] water loss so the the more the

[1:22:37] less water they're taking from

[1:22:38] the stream the more they're

[1:22:40] leaving in the stream for in

[1:22:42] stream uses

[1:22:50] these are water quality and

[1:22:52] quantity of course is in the

[1:22:54] in that equation as well as

[1:22:56] water reuse things like

[1:22:58] aquifer storage and recovery

[1:23:00] we've got the framework now in

[1:23:04] statute and in rules and so the

[1:23:05] the job of the state is to clear

[1:23:06] that so that then communities

[1:23:08] and investors can go in and

[1:23:10] really start using some of these

[1:23:13] aquifers and and using these

[1:23:14] untapped marginal waters that we

[1:23:15] that we have

[1:23:19] the third one was water

[1:23:22] management and policy so this is

[1:23:24] a modernizing the water rights

[1:23:25] programme Chris just talked

[1:23:26] about that maximate your yields

[1:23:28] go ahead and and expediting

[1:23:30] those and getting those done so

[1:23:32] that new permits are under these

[1:23:36] new new permit allocations

[1:23:38] if you will to protect the long

[1:23:41] term supply modernizing water

[1:23:44] law we we actually got

[1:23:46] some the well spacing through

[1:23:47] legislation this

[1:23:51] year as as well as water well

[1:23:53] drillers indemnity fund so that

[1:23:54] was a very important one.

[1:23:58] again improving agwater

[1:23:59] management

[1:24:01] and establishing the framework

[1:24:03] for fund and funding for the

[1:24:04] regional water management

[1:24:06] districts so this includes

[1:24:07] technical support administration

[1:24:09] stakeholder engagement in the

[1:24:11] legal section. and I'll talk

[1:24:12] a little bit more of that about

[1:24:15] that in a minute. these

[1:24:17] designated water districts or or

[1:24:19] management areas we're really

[1:24:20] still interested and hopefully

[1:24:22] some of you are interested in

[1:24:24] exploring measurement

[1:24:26] districts there's other states

[1:24:28] that have all kinds of uses

[1:24:29] and and our employ

[1:24:32] ing these groups in all kinds

[1:24:34] of ways regulatory and non

[1:24:37] regulatory to provide local

[1:24:38] planning infrastructure need

[1:24:40] evaluation aquifer level

[1:24:42] monitoring so really bringing

[1:24:46] it back into local local

[1:24:47] control and local information

[1:24:50] that that that can be used

[1:24:53] some states use these to place

[1:24:54] additional protections on

[1:24:56] specific basins that are showing

[1:24:58] major decline. so that's

[1:24:58] something and you know Oklahoma

[1:24:59] water

[1:25:02] law is is very similar to other

[1:25:04] western water law and so we

[1:25:06] really I'm the just just now

[1:25:08] passed chairman of the

[1:25:08] western state's waterter co

[1:25:10] which is the state engineer's

[1:25:13] offices for all western

[1:25:16] states so these are some

[1:25:18] examples and they're in your

[1:25:19] materials I won't go over them

[1:25:21] but they're virtually every

[1:25:24] western state has some kind of

[1:25:25] formalized management group or

[1:25:28] planning local planning group

[1:25:29] that is

[1:25:32] that has some role in either

[1:25:34] water information or water

[1:25:35] regulation

[1:25:39] this particular one is a

[1:25:40] critical grandmother management

[1:25:43] area. this is oregon I believe.

[1:25:44] I know Sarah had put some

[1:25:46] information together for you a

[1:25:48] few years ago in in this

[1:25:50] particular case there's irri the

[1:25:52] control and then the criteria so

[1:25:55] there's serious water management

[1:25:57] problem areas so the the statute

[1:25:59] has determined that this these

[1:26:02] things will be defined as a

[1:26:04] groundwater basins that have

[1:26:05] critical

[1:26:08] groundwater level decline

[1:26:10] unresolved user disputes or

[1:26:12] frequent water shortages and so

[1:26:14] those are a class of of

[1:26:16] groundwater basins that then can

[1:26:17] have something applied to to

[1:26:17] them

[1:26:20] the critical groundwater

[1:26:22] management area designation

[1:26:24] the commission may rule by rule

[1:26:26] designate the area as critical

[1:26:29] if it is and you can see those

[1:26:31] six looking at groundwater

[1:26:33] decline well interference etc.

[1:26:35] So there are mechanisms to if

[1:26:37] there are particular aquifers in

[1:26:38] the state that you all want to

[1:26:40] protect or that we see that you

[1:26:42] all see are in critical decline

[1:26:45] you can you can designate

[1:26:47] them as as critical areas and

[1:26:47] then

[1:26:52] apply either more you know

[1:26:54] more conserva more funding for

[1:26:56] conservation or for

[1:26:58] additional studies to really

[1:27:00] understand the the area and

[1:27:02] what's going on in those

[1:27:04] areas and then the data and

[1:27:06] information is just that you

[1:27:07] can't manage what you don't

[1:27:08] measure and so we're looking

[1:27:10] we've got a working with the

[1:27:12] Oklahohoma Hydranet through OSU

[1:27:14] and the Oklama mezanett we've

[1:27:15] got a

[1:27:16] our all of our monitoring

[1:27:18] network data goes into this

[1:27:20] system and we're really working

[1:27:22] toward real more real time data

[1:27:25] groundwater levels

[1:27:28] groundwater quality what

[1:27:29] understanding exactly what's

[1:27:30] what's happening in our

[1:27:34] groundwater basins also we

[1:27:34] administer the Oklahoma

[1:27:36] Comprehensivestreamaging

[1:27:37] Network. I won't get into that

[1:27:38] because we're talking about

[1:27:41] groundwater but and then

[1:27:42] also carrying out targeted

[1:27:44] regional and local water

[1:27:44] availability and

[1:27:46] water quality studies so we're

[1:27:48] certainly interested in doing

[1:27:49] that

[1:27:56] so this is a database that

[1:27:58] you that will be available

[1:27:59] online you can go in there and

[1:28:01] we've got 850 active wells in

[1:28:04] this monitoring system so

[1:28:05] you can go in there and

[1:28:06] understand exactly what's

[1:28:08] happening in in those I wanted

[1:28:10] to just briefly talk about North

[1:28:12] Dakota's groundwater monitoring

[1:28:14] network for comparison North

[1:28:16] Dakota monitors about4,000

[1:28:18] groundwater wells compared to

[1:28:20] Oklahoma's 850 wells, about 10

[1:28:22] to15% of those so400

[1:28:26] 500 are actually

[1:28:29] recording realtime data and

[1:28:30] understanding what's happening

[1:28:32] throughout time so that's

[1:28:34] really important but that

[1:28:36] comparison just shows you it's

[1:28:38] you know there are other states

[1:28:39] out there that are really trying

[1:28:41] to understand just like we are

[1:28:41] understand our our monitoring

[1:28:42] network

[1:28:46] so for quickly for legislation

[1:28:47] under the public

[1:28:50] in infrastructure

[1:28:54] again73 million I just listed

[1:28:58] the the different bills 35

[1:28:59] million for this new loan

[1:29:00] program we will be coming back

[1:29:02] to the legislature and and

[1:29:04] really really strongly

[1:29:06] encouraging that to become

[1:29:08] recurring funding it's it's

[1:29:10] worth every penny all the money

[1:29:11] goes back into it to be

[1:29:13] reloaned. We are not taking any

[1:29:14] administrative fee off that at

[1:29:17] all. so it just it's gonna

[1:29:18] integrate right into our

[1:29:20] existing system and databases

[1:29:21] and and workflows

[1:29:24] and that kind of thing so

[1:29:25] director let me interrupt

[1:29:27] uhpresentative Newton has a

[1:29:27] quick question sure

[1:29:31] thank you Mr Chairman. Director

[1:29:32] thank you very much for the

[1:29:34] information on the monitoring

[1:29:36] wells you say there's about 850

[1:29:39] active monitoring wells at the

[1:29:42] current time that we are not

[1:29:44] able to get actual realtime data

[1:29:45] from them at this present time

[1:29:46] is that correct? there's a

[1:29:48] handful and we are moving toward

[1:29:50] that. I believe the number

[1:29:50] was

[1:29:54] 50 or so that we

[1:29:58] that we do have realtime

[1:30:01] information installed but

[1:30:02] that's a very new thing and

[1:30:03] that's working with the

[1:30:04] hydronet. Last year we asked for

[1:30:06] funding for it we didn't get any

[1:30:09] funding so we are that's one

[1:30:11] that we're really interested and

[1:30:12] we're also interested in

[1:30:13] in

[1:30:16] volunteers so we we work with

[1:30:18] landowners on a voluntary

[1:30:20] basis to sign up for this

[1:30:22] program and allow us to come out

[1:30:24] and and install these wells and

[1:30:25] really do that monitoring. So

[1:30:26] it's just really important I

[1:30:28] think that's that we've we've

[1:30:30] gotten really good

[1:30:32] participation from landowners

[1:30:34] but it's still majority vast

[1:30:35] majority of the state is is

[1:30:35] privately owned as you know.

[1:30:38] Paula OK he has a follow up and

[1:30:40] then after him representative

[1:30:42] Dobritsky has a question you're

[1:30:44] next. I mean he's got a follow

[1:30:46] up and then you're next

[1:30:50] so on these aquifers let's

[1:30:52] just use the ogallala since it's

[1:30:53] a big one that's been mentioned

[1:30:54] a lot. how many how many wells

[1:30:56] do we have on theogallala

[1:30:57] monitoring wells don't know that

[1:31:01] mean I can get you that

[1:31:02] information you can get that for

[1:31:03] me thank you thank you

[1:31:09] Thank you director for being

[1:31:10] here and I realize this is

[1:31:14] always challenging and we've

[1:31:15] we've been having this

[1:31:15] conversation for quite some time

[1:31:19] currently one thing that has

[1:31:21] changed in the state is interest

[1:31:21] in data centers

[1:31:25] and a lot of anxiety and

[1:31:27] misinformation surrounding those

[1:31:28] as well

[1:31:31] google recently took the lead by

[1:31:34] announcing the $30 million

[1:31:35] investment in water

[1:31:36] infrastructure in our state

[1:31:39] uh2.3 of which is going directly

[1:31:41] towards cedar removal my

[1:31:42] question to you other states are

[1:31:43] proposing

[1:31:48] a use tax specifically on water

[1:31:51] usage for data centers that

[1:31:54] that could go toward water

[1:31:56] resources board DEQ maybe

[1:31:56] conservation commission

[1:31:59] do you feel like

[1:32:03] now would be the time to pursue

[1:32:05] something new like that that

[1:32:07] would create additional funding

[1:32:08] for our state whenever the

[1:32:09] demand seems to be

[1:32:12] full full speed ahead for those

[1:32:14] type centers yes thank you for

[1:32:14] that question. I know we are

[1:32:16] getting a a lot of calls and

[1:32:18] actually this is a good time to

[1:32:19] plug the governor's water

[1:32:20] conference we host in December

[1:32:21] we're having a session on data

[1:32:22] centers so I hope you all can

[1:32:26] come but yeah I think

[1:32:29] certainly we we did a study

[1:32:31] for the water infrastructure

[1:32:34] piece on additional ways to

[1:32:36] leverage and and one of those is

[1:32:38] looking for instance, looking at

[1:32:39] the city of New

[1:32:41] Orleans is looking at hotel

[1:32:46] taxes to to pay for water

[1:32:47] planning and water

[1:32:49] infrastructure in that area so I

[1:32:51] think yes that you know not

[1:32:52] not only the infrastructure

[1:32:54] piece but also the

[1:32:56] implementation of more, you

[1:32:57] know, monitoring things like

[1:33:00] that. I think that's a great

[1:33:01] opportunity not not to single

[1:33:03] anyone industry out but you

[1:33:06] know I think we're you all

[1:33:08] certainly have your work cut out

[1:33:09] for you as this this data center

[1:33:12] industry develops and we

[1:33:14] certainly don't want you know

[1:33:16] municipalities or counties to

[1:33:18] miss out on opportunities if

[1:33:20] they can be done done safely

[1:33:22] and and

[1:33:24] so appreciate that answer and

[1:33:26] and look forward to the

[1:33:28] governor's water conference

[1:33:30] again this year three weeks from

[1:33:31] today utilities committee will

[1:33:34] host an interim study on data

[1:33:35] centers though I thought I'd

[1:33:36] just throw that bomb in the room

[1:33:38] here so that everybody has kind

[1:33:39] of three weeks to

[1:33:42] digest that and and be prepared

[1:33:44] and may I ask Mr Neal one

[1:33:45] question then I'll be done. Yes

[1:33:46] you bet you recognized for a

[1:33:47] follow up

[1:33:51] ri and I greatly appreciate your

[1:33:53] work last week navigating that

[1:33:54] very fun

[1:33:58] s it wasn't fun very

[1:34:00] interesting meeting between the

[1:34:02] Oklahoma City Water Trust in the

[1:34:03] Canton Lake association

[1:34:06] it

[1:34:12] please to clarify what I think I

[1:34:13] heard in that meeting last week

[1:34:17] we're we're foregoing the 30

[1:34:20] days notice from the meeting to

[1:34:22] the water release in this case

[1:34:22] because we feel like it's an

[1:34:26] emergency but wasn't isn't there

[1:34:28] in place active water

[1:34:31] restrictions in Oklahoma City

[1:34:32] before a release can take place

[1:34:36] from what I understand yes the

[1:34:38] Oklahoma's Oklama City has put

[1:34:40] in place watering lawn watering

[1:34:45] restrictions I believe they

[1:34:48] put those in place in the2010

[1:34:50] to201f r drought and left those

[1:34:52] in place so they are always

[1:34:54] under some form of water

[1:34:56] restrictions in Oklahoma City.

[1:34:58] thank you for that clarification

[1:34:59] would you be surprised

[1:35:02] I I have some millennials that

[1:35:06] I used to be responsible for

[1:35:08] they got out on their own that

[1:35:10] is a resident of Oklahoma City

[1:35:12] for seven years and claims that

[1:35:15] he has never seen anything in

[1:35:16] his water bill or any

[1:35:19] communication from Oklahoma City

[1:35:21] regarding water restriction at

[1:35:22] his residence

[1:35:24] would you believe that

[1:35:25] if

[1:35:28] you don't have ok thank you

[1:35:32] ok we have one more question and

[1:35:34] keep in mindpresentative we are

[1:35:36] running short on time thank you

[1:35:37] Mr chairirman. I just I want to

[1:35:38] know this this for you that I

[1:35:40] wanted to touch on this you

[1:35:41] talked about the Oklahoma

[1:35:41] cityity and the canton lake

[1:35:44] so could I could you give me a

[1:35:45] best guess estimate

[1:35:49] if how much water leaves

[1:35:51] canton lake how much of it will

[1:35:52] actually wind up in Lake

[1:35:54] heffnerner Oklahoma City's

[1:35:56] requested 16,000 acre feet to be

[1:36:00] released from canton Lake we

[1:36:03] can do an estimate one of the

[1:36:04] things that we were going to do

[1:36:06] from the last release is go back

[1:36:07] and look at how much they were

[1:36:09] able to capture so they could

[1:36:10] probably capture anywhere from40

[1:36:13] to60% of that I believe is

[1:36:15] probably reasonable depending on

[1:36:15] the conditions if it rains

[1:36:18] how hot it's been, those types

[1:36:20] of things and they do a

[1:36:22] calculation and they also have

[1:36:24] in the agreement there's

[1:36:26] water restrictions and things

[1:36:27] like that they're spelled out in

[1:36:28] that agreement so we can take a

[1:36:30] look at that. Director, could

[1:36:31] you raise your mic a little?

[1:36:33] you're just a little quiet yes

[1:36:36] sir thank you ok so I am zipping

[1:36:40] through these so again

[1:36:42] this this past session we did

[1:36:44] request dam safety and

[1:36:45] floodplain funding we are by

[1:36:46] the

[1:36:50] way the ranked the last state

[1:36:55] 50th in the country for the

[1:36:58] number of engineers and and

[1:36:59] employees in the in that damn

[1:37:01] safety program. so it really

[1:37:03] emphasizes these these programs

[1:37:04] have just limped along and we're

[1:37:08] we are we are raising

[1:37:09] interest in those again I will

[1:37:10] say the hazard mitigation loan

[1:37:12] programme on the right under

[1:37:14] status that is something that

[1:37:15] you all created a few years

[1:37:15] ago

[1:37:18] and have continued to put $1

[1:37:20] million I think we're on year

[1:37:22] three of four that money we've

[1:37:24] just received notice from FEMA

[1:37:26] last week. there's going to

[1:37:28] be280 million dollars available

[1:37:32] nationwide and it is a 10 to1

[1:37:35] state to federal match. so every

[1:37:38] $1 the federal government will

[1:37:39] put in $10. they've encouraged

[1:37:42] us to ask for all40 million and

[1:37:43] we are going to do that so

[1:37:44] that's going to be some great

[1:37:45] leverage and really an

[1:37:45] infusion

[1:37:50] of funding that is really

[1:37:51] important for hazard mitigation

[1:37:54] and flood control the the

[1:37:57] the very last item Okhoma Occ

[1:37:57] flood controlled damm

[1:38:00] rehabilitation the the water

[1:38:01] plant specifically supported

[1:38:03] this in the in the

[1:38:04] recommendations I believe the

[1:38:07] number was2.7 million that

[1:38:09] that that programme received

[1:38:12] last year. Again the umer

[1:38:14] invasive species received about

[1:38:15] 3.7 million

[1:38:19] last year maxim man your

[1:38:20] yields this is something that we

[1:38:22] use gross production tax for and

[1:38:26] that was renewed for fiveyear

[1:38:28] extension so that's fantastic

[1:38:30] and then water law monetization

[1:38:33] we did ask for well drillers

[1:38:36] remedial fund and a statewide

[1:38:38] water well spacing. So now

[1:38:40] anywhere in the state if

[1:38:42] someone comes and tries to drill

[1:38:44] a well they they have to

[1:38:45] recognize the state this spacing

[1:38:48] requirements so I think that's

[1:38:49] very very helpful when it comes

[1:38:51] to protecting private wells so

[1:38:52] these are my last two sides so

[1:38:55] the remaining priorities that

[1:38:57] we see and that we are kind of

[1:38:59] rising up to the top in addition

[1:39:00] to everything we've talked about

[1:39:02] today expanding capacity of

[1:39:04] our infrastructure programs so

[1:39:06] we certainly are going to be

[1:39:08] requesting that 35 million

[1:39:12] become recurring and there was

[1:39:14] another 10 infusion for our

[1:39:15] longstanding reap grant program

[1:39:18] we think that is money very well

[1:39:20] spent and and upping the

[1:39:22] technical assistance to these

[1:39:24] smaller systems for

[1:39:26] capital improvements

[1:39:30] planning they several years ago

[1:39:32] you the the it was actually a

[1:39:34] state question that created this

[1:39:35] water infrastructure credit

[1:39:37] enhancement reserve fund so what

[1:39:39] that did is it allows the

[1:39:41] waterboard to use the backing of

[1:39:44] the state to further leverage

[1:39:48] our programs and increases

[1:39:50] our security from any kind of

[1:39:52] risk of default we've had zero

[1:39:56] defaults through the 30 years of

[1:39:57] these of these loan programs

[1:39:58] but what we're going to be

[1:40:00] planning on doing is coming back

[1:40:02] to the legislature this year and

[1:40:05] asking to up that so we've never

[1:40:06] touched it it's not it's not

[1:40:08] something that we anticipate

[1:40:10] ever touching but for the rating

[1:40:12] agents agencies for Standard and

[1:40:14] pooror's and Moody and Fitch

[1:40:16] they look at that and in

[1:40:18] their consideration of our

[1:40:20] leveragging those programs so

[1:40:22] that's something that we feel

[1:40:24] like that you all can do and it

[1:40:25] won't won't require funding

[1:40:30] d d re s s drought and flood

[1:40:30] drought and flooding by supreme

[1:40:32] reoccurring appropriations again

[1:40:34] for their damn safety and

[1:40:36] theokklahoma flood plan which

[1:40:38] was required to be created by us

[1:40:41] through Senate bill 1269 back

[1:40:44] in2020 and has yet to receive

[1:40:45] funding but we've pieced

[1:40:49] together some funding from

[1:40:52] the apps several other agencies

[1:40:54] and federal federal funding

[1:40:54] emergency management Department

[1:40:55] ofcomerce

[1:40:59] has some funding complete the

[1:41:00] groth the maximum annual yields

[1:41:02] thatri mentioned so we have that

[1:41:04] list and we are blazing through

[1:41:06] that list really looking

[1:41:08] forward to getting out there and

[1:41:10] finalizing that public process

[1:41:12] and and yield determination and

[1:41:14] then statewide groundwater

[1:41:16] monitoring certainly is

[1:41:17] foundational baseline

[1:41:21] information that we really

[1:41:22] really need to manage these

[1:41:24] aquifers. and and then again

[1:41:26] support regional regional

[1:41:28] planning local local planning

[1:41:30] initiatives and advancing

[1:41:32] precision agriculture. So those

[1:41:36] are the things that we have we

[1:41:38] have certainly kept on the on

[1:41:40] the high priority list and then

[1:41:41] itpresentative Newton we've

[1:41:44] talked about these these

[1:41:46] few things so really for

[1:41:46] groundwater permitting

[1:41:47] considering legislation

[1:41:47] requiring metering

[1:41:51] for new permits so that's

[1:41:53] something right now that

[1:41:55] could certainly be implemented

[1:41:57] so permitting I mean metering

[1:41:58] would not be required for

[1:42:00] existing permit holders but any

[1:42:02] new permit applications or in

[1:42:04] certain groundwater basins

[1:42:06] even critical basins you

[1:42:09] could certainly explore

[1:42:10] requiring me metering for those

[1:42:12] new applications. consider

[1:42:14] legislation on the use of

[1:42:17] aquifer depletion levels as

[1:42:17] triggers for issuance of new

[1:42:18] permits

[1:42:22] so this is something we did for

[1:42:24] surface water in certain basins

[1:42:26] is creating trigger lake level

[1:42:29] triggers in those basins that

[1:42:32] then require conservation

[1:42:34] exploring local control again

[1:42:36] we've mentioned that exploring

[1:42:39] waste violations overuse

[1:42:42] without a permit offsets through

[1:42:44] master irrigators courses system

[1:42:46] efficiency audits installation

[1:42:47] of meters. So really any any of

[1:42:48] these violator

[1:42:51] s that we we are finding through

[1:42:54] SB259 which requires us to

[1:42:58] to take enforcement action it

[1:43:00] doesn't say the waterboardme it

[1:43:01] says they shall

[1:43:03] and so we're trying to be

[1:43:04] creative and and you know if if

[1:43:08] we do find cases of waste

[1:43:09] which means using water without

[1:43:12] a permit and and or wasting

[1:43:14] water then maybe requiring folks

[1:43:15] to go through those some of

[1:43:17] those some of those other

[1:43:18] classes are looking at helping

[1:43:20] them with system audits

[1:43:24] to find those those water

[1:43:25] conservation

[1:43:28] opportunities and then

[1:43:30] expanding monitoring and then

[1:43:32] this last one water education

[1:43:33] and outreach were really really

[1:43:34] interested in that the state of

[1:43:36] Texas has spent a lot of money

[1:43:39] the last year on developing

[1:43:42] water education programs as you

[1:43:44] all know water law is extremely

[1:43:45] complicated and there are so

[1:43:47] many so much speculations and

[1:43:49] it's just personal you know it's

[1:43:50] you're affecting my water even

[1:43:52] though legally it may not be

[1:43:54] your water it's very personal so

[1:43:55] I think the more we can get out

[1:43:55] there and

[1:43:57] and educate on so many

[1:43:58] different levels I would love to

[1:44:00] to do a series for for the

[1:44:02] legislature as well so that's

[1:44:03] all I have

[1:44:06] I will take any questions thank

[1:44:08] you director we we are out of

[1:44:10] time but we do have one pressing

[1:44:11] question by Representative Hill

[1:44:11] you're recognized

[1:44:14] thank you Mr Chairman greatly

[1:44:16] appreciated Directorcunningham

[1:44:18] thank you for being here had

[1:44:19] the opportunity to kind of watch

[1:44:20] it as I was coming from a town

[1:44:22] hall in my district the

[1:44:24] curiosity that I have is back on

[1:44:25] number4 if you could go back one

[1:44:26] slide

[1:44:29] on the water monitoring

[1:44:30] information for decision support

[1:44:33] and planning assistance going

[1:44:35] to the chairman's question

[1:44:38] regarding data centers which

[1:44:40] seems to be our new hot topic

[1:44:42] that everyone likes to bring up

[1:44:44] in every town hall we're in

[1:44:46] curiosity if in your

[1:44:48] executive summary report if it

[1:44:50] did an observation of the

[1:44:52] difference in water consumption

[1:44:54] between a data center and a

[1:44:55] manufacturing facility

[1:44:59] were you able to have y'all done

[1:45:00] that type of study? do you have

[1:45:04] an ongoing study as thats

[1:45:06] issue keeps coming up. Sure so

[1:45:07] we we did not

[1:45:11] dive into data centers through

[1:45:13] that plan we we have we could

[1:45:15] certainly do that and I think it

[1:45:17] would be interesting andris ifri

[1:45:19] has any input on monitoring

[1:45:21] but that is certainly something

[1:45:23] you know if you can get ahead of

[1:45:24] something if it's it we try to

[1:45:27] mimic the natural flows and by

[1:45:29] removing what you know on

[1:45:31] paper when we do our modeling

[1:45:32] removing those uses so if you

[1:45:34] can get ahead of it and really

[1:45:36] understand what's happening.

[1:45:37] I think that's that's very good

[1:45:38] yep.

[1:45:41] I'd also like to point out the

[1:45:43] data center information sorry

[1:45:45] I just jumped in here but the

[1:45:47] data center issues didn't

[1:45:49] start coming up in Oklahoma

[1:45:51] until we were kind of finalizing

[1:45:53] the Okoma conference of our

[1:45:55] plan. I'll note here that data

[1:45:57] centers may be used 1 to5

[1:45:59] million gallons of water per day

[1:46:02] could be more the city of Norman

[1:46:04] for an example in the wintertime

[1:46:06] uses about 10 million gallons of

[1:46:07] water a day and in the

[1:46:08] summertime that kicks

[1:46:11] up to about22 to25 million

[1:46:11] gallons of water per day

[1:46:15] so just for some references

[1:46:17] there that's about how much

[1:46:19] water is used you know for the

[1:46:21] city of Norman how much water

[1:46:23] data centers use just throw that

[1:46:23] out there

[1:46:28] one follow up thank you we're

[1:46:30] out of time you bet thank you Mr

[1:46:31] chairirman landed the plane here

[1:46:33] for those that will continue

[1:46:35] to be here in the decisions that

[1:46:36] they're going to have to make

[1:46:38] in the year to follow. I

[1:46:40] would just ask that as we're

[1:46:42] considering the importance of

[1:46:44] food being homeland security so

[1:46:46] is data supremacy is homeland

[1:46:48] security as we're proving on the

[1:46:49] southern border right now and so

[1:46:52] I would just ask that that be

[1:46:53] something that y'all would look

[1:46:54] into as those compar

[1:46:57] able s because I think that

[1:46:58] information is going to be

[1:47:00] extremely relevant to the

[1:47:01] decisions our great state's

[1:47:02] about to make thank you thank

[1:47:03] you Mr chairman.

[1:47:04] right thank you sir

[1:47:07] thank you thank you doctorctor

[1:47:08] Cunningham and thank you

[1:47:11] division chief Neil thank you

[1:47:12] very much for your presentation

[1:47:15] very informative. would like

[1:47:17] to call to the table

[1:47:21] executive director Dwayne Smith

[1:47:24] from the OA institute and then

[1:47:26] also I think Mr McClintock

[1:47:28] are you going to present or are

[1:47:29] you just gonna let him do it?

[1:47:32] right. Schmith you're recognized

[1:47:34] to present talk about water

[1:47:36] planning and the water

[1:47:38] sustainability so we are

[1:47:40] privileged to have you here and

[1:47:41] thank you very much for being

[1:47:43] here. Tell us what's your job

[1:47:44] title is exactly and then I'll

[1:47:45] turn it over to you

[1:47:48] now in my life

[1:47:52] good morning good to be here

[1:47:54] and Julie thanks for only

[1:47:55] leaving me 10 minutes. I

[1:47:57] appreciate that that's that's

[1:47:57] the

[1:48:00] so formerly I was the executive

[1:48:01] director of the Oklahoma

[1:48:02] waterter Resources Board I was

[1:48:04] there for 1w2 years retired from

[1:48:05] the state in2010

[1:48:10] went to Afghanistan with the

[1:48:11] corps of engineers did water

[1:48:12] planning in afghanistan so I'll

[1:48:14] share some stories about

[1:48:15] afghanistan and

[1:48:15] northwestokklahoma

[1:48:20] and now I am the executive

[1:48:22] director of the Oa institute OCa

[1:48:24] is the Choctaw and Chickasaw

[1:48:26] word for water so the water

[1:48:26] institute at the Central

[1:48:27] University.

[1:48:30] I will say for our OSU fans our

[1:48:33] colors are orange and black so

[1:48:34] we're the bright orange at the

[1:48:35] central

[1:48:36] and

[1:48:38] oh man

[1:48:40] yeah there's a

[1:48:42] yes

[1:48:48] and so I also do consulting work

[1:48:50] in my past I've done regional

[1:48:51] water planning I'm gonna talk a

[1:48:52] little bit about that all over

[1:48:54] Oklahoma I want to talk about

[1:48:55] the results of some of those

[1:48:56] so that's who I am

[1:49:01] and I'll go through very briefly

[1:49:03] some of my slides and let me

[1:49:10] Julie

[1:49:15] there we go so the Oak institute

[1:49:18] was established in2016 and Susan

[1:49:20] Paddock was the original

[1:49:22] director of the Oa institute

[1:49:23] former state senator from Ada

[1:49:28] and it was funded and started a

[1:49:30] unique partnership between the

[1:49:31] Chickasaw nation and the city of

[1:49:34] Ada and East Central University

[1:49:35] and the goal was to be able to

[1:49:36] provide

[1:49:40] support for sustainable water

[1:49:41] policy.

[1:49:44] as a part of that we established

[1:49:46] not only the Oa institute as a

[1:49:48] part of a technical group but a

[1:49:50] water master's program

[1:49:53] Do Pappas is here who heads

[1:49:56] up the water masters program in

[1:49:58] water management and policy at

[1:49:58] East Central University we have

[1:50:00] a number of graduates that are

[1:50:04] working across Oklahoma in

[1:50:04] water policy and management

[1:50:10] So why must we plan for

[1:50:12] sustainability and the first

[1:50:12] thing I want to do is address

[1:50:15] the sustainability word because

[1:50:15] it's it's not

[1:50:20] some people use that word in

[1:50:22] ways that I wanna make sure that

[1:50:23] you understand how I intend that

[1:50:23] word to be used

[1:50:27] sustainability can be replaced

[1:50:27] with reliability

[1:50:32] it's essential for economic

[1:50:35] development so water has to go

[1:50:37] hand in hand with economic

[1:50:38] development it's got to go with

[1:50:39] the money

[1:50:42] and so as we talk through this I

[1:50:43] want to make sure that

[1:50:48] that we don't use this word

[1:50:49] in in different ways that might

[1:50:50] mean different things for

[1:50:52] purposes of my discussion it's

[1:50:53] really about economic

[1:50:55] development. I look at the 1und0

[1:50:56] year hydrograph in Oklahoma

[1:51:00] and in 1957 was our worst

[1:51:01] drought of record and if you

[1:51:04] look back in that time before

[1:51:06] you know the 1980s

[1:51:08] most of our history was drought

[1:51:11] and since that time

[1:51:15] it's been the longest wettest

[1:51:15] period in our history

[1:51:20] so I tell people that I started

[1:51:22] at the waterboard and it in in

[1:51:23] the 1980s

[1:51:28] and I left at2010 so I take

[1:51:30] credit for the longest wettest

[1:51:31] period in Oklahoma's history

[1:51:35] but with that comes a lot of

[1:51:35] things

[1:51:38] when we were in that long

[1:51:41] drought and in 1957 that's when

[1:51:42] the water board was formed

[1:51:44] that's when the Texas waterter

[1:51:46] Development Board was formed it

[1:51:48] was a devastating piece we had

[1:51:50] gone through the dirty thirties

[1:51:52] now we're in the fiftiess the

[1:51:53] worst drought ever

[1:51:55] that's when

[1:52:00] Bob Kerr started talking about

[1:52:02] federal reservoirs we had ive

[1:52:04] bureau of reclamation reservoirs

[1:52:06] built26 corps of engineers

[1:52:07] reservoirs all of these

[1:52:08] reservoirs that we enjoy today

[1:52:14] came from the realization that

[1:52:15] we had to survive a drought

[1:52:20] so now we come forward and we

[1:52:22] went into our longest wettest

[1:52:23] period in history

[1:52:25] and what we did was became

[1:52:25] complacent

[1:52:29] we thought that this was our

[1:52:31] normal this is one thing we have

[1:52:31] to understand about water

[1:52:36] waterter is so local and it's so

[1:52:38] unique to us we looked about

[1:52:39] surviving

[1:52:42] turning on our tap when we want

[1:52:44] water turning on our shower when

[1:52:46] we want to take a shower or

[1:52:48] irrigating through a drought or

[1:52:50] we we don't think about this

[1:52:51] generationally

[1:52:54] this is where the water

[1:52:55] resources boardard plays a vital

[1:52:55] role

[1:52:58] all of that comprehensive water

[1:53:00] planning stuff that you see

[1:53:02] talking about how much water can

[1:53:04] be pumped per acre over a period

[1:53:05] of time

[1:53:05] is really

[1:53:08] a long term plan for that

[1:53:14] the local plans come locally

[1:53:16] with a community or with a

[1:53:16] region or with an irrigator

[1:53:19] and so when this was formed

[1:53:22] this

[1:53:25] was the hydrograph that formed

[1:53:28] the basis of our water policy as

[1:53:29] we see it

[1:53:34] inadequate inadequacies in

[1:53:36] Oklahoma's water law the water

[1:53:37] laws are what they are

[1:53:40] let's don't blame the water

[1:53:41] board for the inaccuracies or

[1:53:43] inadequacies in the water law

[1:53:44] theres there's the law they're

[1:53:45] the policy that's set

[1:53:48] but we started with a

[1:53:51] conservation statute and back in

[1:53:54] the seventiess and60s there was

[1:53:56] a water law advisory group that

[1:53:58] was formed that was included the

[1:54:00] major industries in Oklahoma

[1:54:01] OG&E Farm Bureau

[1:54:06] a bunch of them and they got

[1:54:09] together and they said that we

[1:54:10] have to have a utilization

[1:54:12] statute we can't we can't

[1:54:16] irrigate in the panhandle if we

[1:54:17] have a conservation statute the

[1:54:17] science is clear

[1:54:21] the science is clear you get one

[1:54:22] inch of recharge in the ogallala

[1:54:25] if you're going to raise corn

[1:54:26] you're going to use24 to30

[1:54:26] inches

[1:54:30] Right? so so the water levels

[1:54:31] going down

[1:54:34] let's don't I don't know that

[1:54:36] anybody should be surprised

[1:54:38] today to say we have a mining

[1:54:39] statute I would say that mining

[1:54:40] statute's working

[1:54:40] we're mining the groundwater

[1:54:46] This was really

[1:54:48] the public policy at the time

[1:54:52] we want this to be a private

[1:54:53] property right

[1:54:56] we're gonna to allocate your

[1:54:57] water and you can do with that

[1:54:58] water what you want to do with

[1:54:59] it

[1:55:02] the public policy what we heard

[1:55:04] from the panhandle landowners

[1:55:06] what we heard from irrigators

[1:55:08] particularly were that they

[1:55:10] needed two acre feet of water to

[1:55:11] irrigate crops

[1:55:15] So what happened as a matter of

[1:55:16] laws we're going to have a

[1:55:18] mining statute we're going to

[1:55:20] allow mining to happen but the

[1:55:22] realization of that was we were

[1:55:25] going to have a 1980 water plan

[1:55:27] that moved water from eastern

[1:55:29] Oklahoma to the west so that

[1:55:32] when we had those declines we

[1:55:34] could mitigate those declines

[1:55:35] with transferring water from

[1:55:36] easternokklahoma to western

[1:55:38] Oklahoma and if you look at the

[1:55:40] 1980 plan there's a northern

[1:55:42] transfer there's a central

[1:55:42] transfer and a southern

[1:55:45] transfer taking water all the

[1:55:46] way to the panhandle

[1:55:52] So what we see is a policy that

[1:55:53] allows for mining but the

[1:55:54] mitigation strategy

[1:55:57] of moving water is

[1:56:00] billions of dollars today

[1:56:04] and can you imagine pumping

[1:56:06] water from southeast Oklahoma

[1:56:07] from some reservoir

[1:56:08] to irrigate

[1:56:12] in the panhand or to irrigate in

[1:56:13] southwest Oklahoma

[1:56:14] when

[1:56:19] it a billions of dollars it will

[1:56:19] have to be publicly

[1:56:22] subsidized in order to do that

[1:56:24] what we're seeing though

[1:56:28] is those water transfers are

[1:56:29] viable in some areas Oklahoma

[1:56:30] City ista water from Sardis Lake

[1:56:35] en n id from carrreservoir you

[1:56:36] know we have the we have some of

[1:56:38] this transfer going but it's

[1:56:39] around a corner

[1:56:43] stone piece that can afford that

[1:56:44] can provide the economic

[1:56:45] viability to that

[1:56:48] so the question becomes well

[1:56:49] what do we do with agriculture

[1:56:53] and I would say you look at

[1:56:55] Oklahoma panhandle look at

[1:56:56] Texas, look at Kansas

[1:56:59] Kansas is public water supply

[1:56:59] it's not private

[1:57:03] go forbid that Oklahoma would go

[1:57:06] make their water public

[1:57:08] our surface water's public our

[1:57:09] groundwater's private

[1:57:10] Texas

[1:57:13] different laws in multiple

[1:57:14] states and the declines are all

[1:57:15] very similar.

[1:57:20] so when you allow irrigation of

[1:57:24] corn or crops in the panhandle

[1:57:26] regardless of what your statute

[1:57:28] is regardless of your management

[1:57:30] plan regardless of your metering

[1:57:31] you're going to see water level

[1:57:31] declines in the panhandle

[1:57:35] and that's what we see that was

[1:57:35] very clear in the eightiess

[1:57:36] and it's very clear today

[1:57:40] what the irrigators have done in

[1:57:41] the panhandle

[1:57:45] is made their efficiency they

[1:57:46] really spent money on

[1:57:46] efficiencies

[1:57:50] so when you look at an irrigator

[1:57:52] today and they they know how

[1:57:53] much water they're using they

[1:57:54] know what their water levels are

[1:57:58] they know what that is they know

[1:58:00] that if they irrigate one piece

[1:58:01] of property over here

[1:58:06] or another 10 acres over here

[1:58:07] they know what the water needs

[1:58:08] are on those particular 10 acre

[1:58:09] tracts

[1:58:11] and they sense those and they

[1:58:13] they manage those in such a way

[1:58:14] to extend that water as long as

[1:58:15] possible

[1:58:20] if we were to change the policy

[1:58:20] and say oh well now you

[1:58:24] can't irrigate or you can't do

[1:58:25] that the economic

[1:58:28] piece of that initially would it

[1:58:29] it is

[1:58:32] is a great economic loss

[1:58:37] so some of the discussion has

[1:58:38] been around meeting should we

[1:58:39] require require meters

[1:58:42] so I'm not the director of the

[1:58:44] water board anymore so I can

[1:58:45] have an opinion on that.

[1:58:50] I believe that water metering

[1:58:52] isn't to make an irrigator more

[1:58:53] efficient

[1:58:58] if they needed a meter to make

[1:58:59] their their system more

[1:58:59] efficient they'd have one

[1:59:03] they're efficient because they

[1:59:05] know how much they're pumping

[1:59:07] and they are saving pennies on

[1:59:07] the bushel

[1:59:08] to make money

[1:59:12] so you don't see 40 acre

[1:59:12] corn

[1:59:17] farms anymore right they're

[1:59:18] they're they're hundreds and

[1:59:21] thousands of acres and and if an

[1:59:22] irrigator can make a penny a

[1:59:25] bushel or two pennies a bushel

[1:59:27] I've heard them talk about this

[1:59:28] if they can make that kind of a

[1:59:30] difference they can make money

[1:59:32] the smaller ones can't we're

[1:59:34] it's it's now it's become bigger

[1:59:36] because of the economics of it

[1:59:40] if they use less water that's

[1:59:40] less money they spend on

[1:59:41] pumping.

[1:59:49] One thing our laws don't do is

[1:59:50] look at the environmental

[1:59:51] benefit

[1:59:54] so when you look at a stream

[1:59:56] water permit and you look at

[1:59:57] beneficial uses

[2:00:00] we don't take into account the

[2:00:02] nonconsumptive use what is that

[2:00:04] nonconsumptive use fish and

[2:00:05] wildlife etc

[2:00:07] some people say well we don't

[2:00:08] want to prioritize fish over

[2:00:09] people.

[2:00:12] but I would submit to you that

[2:00:14] if you remove the fish

[2:00:18] and you remove the environmental

[2:00:19] benefit of our water

[2:00:22] you don't have a reliable system

[2:00:26] you don't have a reliable system

[2:00:28] for withdrawals for industry for

[2:00:29] cities or irrigators

[2:00:32] so it has to be taken into

[2:00:36] account is one priority take it

[2:00:37] into account we shouldn't be

[2:00:37] afraid of that analysis

[2:00:42] Water sustainability

[2:00:46] I look at thelue river we've

[2:00:47] done a recent economic study on

[2:00:47] the Blueriver

[2:00:52] $1.5 billion of economic benefit

[2:00:53] in thelue river.

[2:00:58] and the reason for that is that

[2:01:02] thelue river is reliable it's a

[2:01:03] perennial stream it's not

[2:01:03] intermittent

[2:01:07] it that provides the reliability

[2:01:09] for the city of Durant it

[2:01:10] provides the reliability for

[2:01:13] cattle producers to water

[2:01:17] it reply it supplies the

[2:01:19] reliability for the recreation

[2:01:20] and tourism that comes with that

[2:01:23] if you were to use the

[2:01:24] Oklahoma's current water law

[2:01:28] in appropriate 100% of the

[2:01:31] average annual flow you could

[2:01:34] make it's possible you could

[2:01:34] make thelue river intermittent

[2:01:38] you've impacted $1.5 billion

[2:01:40] of economic impact

[2:01:45] my recommendation is we need to

[2:01:45] consider

[2:01:50] those nonconsumptive uses as we

[2:01:52] look at water rights I'm not

[2:01:52] saying that you

[2:01:56] those need to be considered and

[2:01:57] they need to be considered from

[2:01:57] an economic

[2:01:58] impact.

[2:02:04] The water board has made very

[2:02:05] strong progress

[2:02:07] and and I want to go through an

[2:02:07] example

[2:02:15] and of course communities aging

[2:02:16] infrastructures the huge deal

[2:02:18] and I'm gonna talk a little bit

[2:02:20] about what I think is a major

[2:02:21] policy proposal on communities

[2:02:26] so these are the water plans

[2:02:27] that I have done

[2:02:30] so the panhandle regional water

[2:02:31] plan northwestokklahoma

[2:02:33] actionlan oss reservoir drought

[2:02:34] contingency plan

[2:02:37] southwestokklahoma water supply

[2:02:38] and the Choctaw Chickasaw

[2:02:39] regiongal water planin.

[2:02:43] and out of these there's been

[2:02:44] over a billion dollars of

[2:02:46] economic investment out of these

[2:02:48] plans I want to say that not one

[2:02:51] penny of state money has gone to

[2:02:51] these re this regional planning

[2:02:54] in southwest Oklahoma

[2:03:00] they wanted this was in2011 when

[2:03:01] they had the big drought and as

[2:03:04] you recall they thought then

[2:03:06] that lugeralus reservoir would

[2:03:07] never fail again.

[2:03:09] and ir0 days later it was

[2:03:09] overflowing

[2:03:15] the panhandle region Chris Neal

[2:03:17] put together some maps you know

[2:03:19] in June of'73 31 permits

[2:03:22] now 10,000 permits statewide

[2:03:24] we've seen those maps

[2:03:27] now we see the declines

[2:03:32] I I want to ask you what does

[2:03:32] the next 50 years hold?

[2:03:42] Our northwest water action plan

[2:03:44] Julie talked about the car

[2:03:46] reservoir pipeline that came out

[2:03:47] of the northwest waterter action

[2:03:47] plan

[2:03:50] that was that group of

[2:03:52] communities and rural water

[2:03:54] districts supported that plan

[2:03:55] with the city ofennid

[2:03:58] it was hard for the city of Enid

[2:04:00] to get that passed the water

[2:04:01] rates had to go up

[2:04:03] it was very difficult to do that

[2:04:08] but the reality was they were on

[2:04:09] groundwater

[2:04:11] I was the original hearing

[2:04:14] examiner on Enid's groundwater

[2:04:15] permit back in the eighties

[2:04:18] they thought that the

[2:04:18] groundwater was going to be

[2:04:19] their long term supply

[2:04:24] They had groundwater declines

[2:04:25] and high nitrates

[2:04:27] they had to go to carr reservoir

[2:04:32] $350 million to provide a

[2:04:33] reliable water supply

[2:04:37] southwestokklahoma we talked a

[2:04:39] little bit about Lugardaus and

[2:04:40] some of the landowners

[2:04:41] you know

[2:04:42] the science is clear

[2:04:46] if you take water above in the

[2:04:48] alluvial deposits above our

[2:04:49] reservoirs the science is very

[2:04:49] clear

[2:04:51] you're going to impact the yield

[2:04:52] of the reservoir

[2:04:55] when you look at Tom Steed

[2:04:58] reservoir. I think the most

[2:04:58] important water supply in

[2:05:00] southwest Oklahoma because it

[2:05:02] supplies water to Alus Alus Air

[2:05:03] forcece Base.

[2:05:05] Frederick

[2:05:06] Schnyder

[2:05:12] if you were to fully implement

[2:05:13] the Oklahoma water law

[2:05:15] appropriate a 100% of the firm

[2:05:15] yield

[2:05:20] of 100% of the flow above

[2:05:21] tomsteed reservoir that would

[2:05:23] reduce the firm yield of steed

[2:05:24] to virtually zero

[2:05:25] the science is clear

[2:05:30] so what the water board did

[2:05:32] after after eight years of study

[2:05:33] with the Bureau of Reclamation

[2:05:34] in local folks as they

[2:05:35] implemented a rule

[2:05:39] to look at how we protect

[2:05:40] Tomsteed reservoir and Lugudaus

[2:05:44] first time the water board's

[2:05:45] done that to protect a reservoir

[2:05:48] a very positive move for that

[2:05:50] now

[2:05:54] the city of Altis has drilled

[2:05:55] wells in Texas brings Texas

[2:05:55] water to

[2:05:59] Alus they have a reverse osmosis

[2:06:00] plant

[2:06:04] Tomsteedreservoir has drilled

[2:06:05] wells to supplement the firm

[2:06:05] yield

[2:06:09] and now we have a sustainable

[2:06:10] water supply where Alttairir

[2:06:12] Force base was number one on the

[2:06:13] list

[2:06:16] for the most vulnerable water

[2:06:17] supply of a military

[2:06:18] installation in the United

[2:06:19] States

[2:06:20] it's now off that list

[2:06:24] because of the local planning

[2:06:28] that was done funded through

[2:06:30] state funding sources that the

[2:06:32] legislature's approved with

[2:06:32] folks like the water boardard

[2:06:33] and and others

[2:06:38] we look at the

[2:06:41] regional water plan the

[2:06:42] settlement agreement that was

[2:06:44] approved by the state the tribes

[2:06:45] and Oklahoma City.

[2:06:48] and and so one of these regional

[2:06:50] plans I do want to talk about is

[2:06:52] Oklahoma cityity we talk a

[2:06:52] little bit about Canton because

[2:06:53] that's in the news now

[2:06:56] one of the reasons in the

[2:06:58] settlementgre agreement

[2:06:59] discussions

[2:07:01] from Oklahoma City was that

[2:07:04] because of the lack of

[2:07:05] recognition of groundwater

[2:07:07] surface water interaction and

[2:07:07] groundwater pumpage

[2:07:12] canton reservoirs yield was

[2:07:13] decreased the firm yield was

[2:07:13] decreased

[2:07:15] when you look at

[2:07:19] Chris Neel's slide that Oklahoma

[2:07:22] City has 390,000 acre feet in

[2:07:25] water rights and uses 150,000

[2:07:26] you might think well Oklahoma

[2:07:27] City's got plenty of water

[2:07:30] talk about the firm yield that

[2:07:32] yield it's only there during a

[2:07:33] drought

[2:07:36] that's why Oklahoma City needed

[2:07:37] to go toardusreservoir.

[2:07:41] Now why is Oklahoma City the

[2:07:43] beneficiary you know the good

[2:07:43] thing about Oklahohoma City

[2:07:46] is that they have multiple

[2:07:47] reservoirs

[2:07:50] so they have canon they have

[2:07:52] heffner they have oververholser

[2:07:53] they have Tom Steed they've got

[2:07:56] aokka they've got McGee Creek

[2:07:57] and now they're coming with

[2:07:57] Sardis

[2:07:59] and you might say well they're

[2:08:00] gobbling up everything but for

[2:08:01] Sarddu

[2:08:04] part of that agreement was

[2:08:06] Oklahoma City you have to have a

[2:08:07] conservation plan in place

[2:08:11] you have to have your reservoirs

[2:08:14] below50% before you can take

[2:08:15] water from Sardus in other words

[2:08:15] they didn't want

[2:08:19] a sailboat regatta at Lake

[2:08:21] Heffner while Sardus Lake is a

[2:08:22] 40 acre frog pond

[2:08:29] those that benefit now provides

[2:08:31] Oklahoma City with future water

[2:08:33] supply for economic development

[2:08:35] Oklahoma City wouldn't even be a

[2:08:36] I don't believe would even be a

[2:08:39] skeleton of what they are today

[2:08:41] had they not made the decision

[2:08:42] to go to Mcee Creek and itoka.

[2:08:46] it was controversial all the

[2:08:47] city council lost their jobs

[2:08:51] none of the other communities

[2:08:51] wanted to go on board

[2:08:52] but now look

[2:08:59] Piedmont, yukon El Reno you know

[2:09:00] all of them Newcastle they all

[2:09:01] have ties to Oklahoma City

[2:09:05] the future growth of this area

[2:09:06] depends upon Oklahoma City.

[2:09:14] We look at four pillars of

[2:09:15] sustainability

[2:09:16] I want to talk a little bit

[2:09:17] about

[2:09:19] the Terry Peach project with the

[2:09:19] conservation commission

[2:09:23] removing cedar trees cedar trees

[2:09:24] use50 gallons of water a day you

[2:09:26] know the stories468 million

[2:09:27] cedar trees

[2:09:30] it reduces the viability of a

[2:09:31] producer to make money on their

[2:09:31] land

[2:09:36] this is an incredibly important

[2:09:38] piece of how we have to tie all

[2:09:39] of this together

[2:09:41] into a comprehensive

[2:09:42] plan

[2:09:45] to manage our water resources

[2:09:49] our Chickasaw hoctawlan

[2:09:53] I want to say that Texas is

[2:09:53] coming at us

[2:09:57] whether we like it or not

[2:09:57] they're coming at us

[2:10:01] they're coming across the ed

[2:10:03] river they're coming up the75

[2:10:04] corridor. they're coming up the

[2:10:07] 35 corridor they're coming up

[2:10:08] now on the north side of Lake

[2:10:09] Texoma

[2:10:12] we look at population

[2:10:14] projections and we would look at

[2:10:16] old comprehensive water plan

[2:10:18] projections of a straight line

[2:10:19] demand projection for Bryan

[2:10:19] County

[2:10:22] was a part of the study that we

[2:10:23] did with the corps of engineers

[2:10:26] they're growing faster than that

[2:10:29] right now we don't we got

[2:10:31] moratoriums on adding hookups

[2:10:35] all over Bryan County

[2:10:36] southernokklahoma Water Corp all

[2:10:37] the way to Ardmore

[2:10:40] landnd values are skyrocketing

[2:10:41] in that area.

[2:10:43] if you own that land it's a

[2:10:43] great thing

[2:10:49] so what do we do what do we do

[2:10:49] about water supply

[2:10:57] I think the groth corridors

[2:11:00] the4fo corridor Newcastle

[2:11:05] ick ck as ha Tuttle Blanchard

[2:11:05] that area's blowing up over

[2:11:06] there

[2:11:10] you look at the thir5 corridor I

[2:11:12] talked to Washington and all of

[2:11:14] those communities along that

[2:11:14] 35ardmore

[2:11:17] all the way along there Paul's

[2:11:17] alley

[2:11:20] Goldsby

[2:11:22] Purcell, Norman

[2:11:27] their future is going to be more

[2:11:27] water

[2:11:28] and where are they're going to

[2:11:29] get it

[2:11:33] intensive plans need to take

[2:11:34] place in those areas

[2:11:40] as we look at

[2:11:44] you know, I don't want to go

[2:11:45] over a bunch of numbers with you

[2:11:48] you know the success it's it's

[2:11:49] no longer a proof of concept

[2:11:51] what we do at theoka institute

[2:11:53] is we're not a consultant for

[2:11:54] communities we go work with

[2:11:57] those we get grant monies we got

[2:11:58] FEMA grant monies to look at

[2:11:59] drought fire and flood

[2:12:03] that's how we support ourselves

[2:12:06] we now have a grant with EPA

[2:12:07] with the University of New

[2:12:08] Mexico where theokake institute

[2:12:09] is going to be the lead

[2:12:10] technical

[2:12:14] assistance for small communities

[2:12:16] in Oklahoma so we're gonna be

[2:12:18] working with Oklahoma it takes

[2:12:20] multiple trips to a community.

[2:12:24] to get them to understand water

[2:12:25] sustainability

[2:12:28] typically what communities say

[2:12:29] is I can't afford it

[2:12:35] I want to talk a little bit

[2:12:36] about the Arbuckle Simpson

[2:12:38] aquifer you guys are aware of

[2:12:40] the controversy comes up to you

[2:12:42] every single year you put a

[2:12:45] moratorium on mining expansions

[2:12:46] until a study's done to look at

[2:12:48] the impacts of mines in the

[2:12:49] Arbuckle Simpson

[2:12:52] you put2 million dollars at the

[2:12:53] water board

[2:12:55] and the Oa institute

[2:12:56] said they would match it

[2:13:02] that was Susan Paddock said she

[2:13:03] would match it. I didn't, but we

[2:13:03] are

[2:13:07] so now what we're doing and the

[2:13:10] reason for the study is because

[2:13:12] the regional study looked at the

[2:13:13] amount of water that can be

[2:13:14] taken out on a regional basis

[2:13:18] per acre2 acre feet per acre it

[2:13:20] went from two acre feet to.2

[2:13:21] acre feet

[2:13:25] so every community every person

[2:13:26] that's wanting to use water and

[2:13:28] drill a well and use it for

[2:13:29] beneficial use besides domestic

[2:13:33] was reduced to0.2 acre feet per

[2:13:35] they had to buy 10 times the

[2:13:36] lane or5 times the lane to get

[2:13:38] the same amount of water city of

[2:13:39] ada etc

[2:13:42] the mining companies were exempt

[2:13:45] and and it's not because mine

[2:13:46] I'm not gonna dog the mining

[2:13:48] companies they were exempt from

[2:13:50] getting water permits since the

[2:13:52] beginning of the water rights

[2:13:53] administration back in the

[2:13:53] eighties

[2:13:54] Water in a producing mine was

[2:13:55] exempt from getting a permit

[2:13:58] and it was because of their

[2:13:59] unique

[2:14:03] per ation that they have they

[2:14:04] don't use it they have to move

[2:14:05] it to mine

[2:14:09] and you know and in the

[2:14:09] Arbuckleimpson

[2:14:12] where the community

[2:14:16] and industry have to protect

[2:14:16] springs and streams the mines

[2:14:17] don't

[2:14:24] So this is a way and this and

[2:14:26] the legislature said in there

[2:14:28] that the water board DEQ and

[2:14:29] department ofines do not

[2:14:34] know the impacts of the mines so

[2:14:36] they appropriated money to be

[2:14:38] matched to look at what that is

[2:14:41] and now we are doing what I

[2:14:41] believe cutting edge

[2:14:43] technology using

[2:14:46] a helicopter to do

[2:14:50] aerial electromagnetic data

[2:14:51] collection determine the faults

[2:14:52] and flow paths

[2:14:58] to turn to determine a process

[2:14:59] by which we can have minds in

[2:15:01] the Arbuckleimpson our goal is

[2:15:01] not to get rid of the mines

[2:15:05] or to get rid of large water

[2:15:07] wells in the Arbuckleimpson our

[2:15:08] goal is to protect springs and

[2:15:09] streams

[2:15:12] Doctor Lauren Haygood is here

[2:15:13] she's gonna lead she's the

[2:15:15] technical lead for that study

[2:15:16] we're going to use doctorctor

[2:15:17] Toddhallahan from OSU

[2:15:20] we believe the best science team

[2:15:22] is available and I want to

[2:15:24] discuss with you what I believe

[2:15:26] the model is for future studies

[2:15:27] in Oklahoma and the region

[2:15:31] and that is to form a technical

[2:15:31] advisory committee

[2:15:36] have scientists that specialize

[2:15:37] in this work

[2:15:39] come together and advise on

[2:15:40] what the science

[2:15:45] data collection should be and

[2:15:46] what those interpretations are

[2:15:50] and then alongside that have a

[2:15:52] robust stakeholder group that

[2:15:54] gets together routinely and

[2:15:56] talks to the scientists and

[2:15:57] understands the policy as we

[2:15:57] move forward

[2:16:00] let's don't do the science and

[2:16:01] then

[2:16:04] try to inform stakeholders then

[2:16:05] let's do that together

[2:16:07] and I believe this is a model

[2:16:09] that you should look at

[2:16:12] as we do basin studies in

[2:16:12] Oklahoma.

[2:16:21] Regional water planning

[2:16:22] so

[2:16:26] Mr chairman in the interests of

[2:16:27] time

[2:16:32] I'm going to move through

[2:16:36] and I want to talk just a little

[2:16:37] bit about economic development

[2:16:38] and and water infrastructure

[2:16:45] and you know in inokklahoma you

[2:16:46] know twentyome billion dollars

[2:16:47] of need in Oklahoma

[2:16:51] we don't have enough grant money

[2:16:53] to fix our infrastructure

[2:16:56] when you look at a community and

[2:16:57] we say you can't afford it

[2:16:58] what are we saying

[2:17:02] the reason they're in the

[2:17:04] situation they're in is because

[2:17:05] they can't afford it

[2:17:07] so to put a dribble of

[2:17:11] 2 $4 billion of need

[2:17:16] and and we put50 or or 100

[2:17:16] million or a billion dollars

[2:17:17] into that

[2:17:19] we're not fixing the problem

[2:17:22] by giving the communities

[2:17:23] money

[2:17:29] What we have to do is establish

[2:17:32] a policy I think of and and look

[2:17:33] at affordability of water

[2:17:36] and I I looked at when we were

[2:17:38] minus22 degrees and we didn't

[2:17:39] have

[2:17:42] electricity in our communities

[2:17:44] and the outrage that came from

[2:17:45] that

[2:17:45] and what happened

[2:17:50] we raised rates and built

[2:17:52] additional infrastructure so

[2:17:52] that we can withstand that

[2:17:57] with our communities the entire

[2:17:58] backbone of our community

[2:18:02] the entire backbone of economic

[2:18:03] development is around water.

[2:18:07] and if we look at an

[2:18:07] affordability rate

[2:18:12] EPA says that nationally it's

[2:18:14] about2.5% of the median

[2:18:15] household income

[2:18:17] for water and wastewater

[2:18:18] if you look at that

[2:18:23] and take the average median

[2:18:24] household income in Oklahoma and

[2:18:25] the average water rate

[2:18:28] there's about600 million dollars

[2:18:29] a year

[2:18:33] in infrastructure money that's

[2:18:33] not being spent on

[2:18:34] infrastructure

[2:18:38] if you were to take that600

[2:18:40] million and leverage that like

[2:18:42] the water board does with state

[2:18:43] money you could be talking

[2:18:44] you know

[2:18:48] $10 billion

[2:18:51] over 10 years to go into

[2:18:51] infrastructure

[2:18:56] our grant money then should go

[2:18:58] to help those communities that

[2:18:59] are at that affordability rate

[2:19:03] it doesn't have to be2.5%

[2:19:05] whatever we decide that is

[2:19:05] that's just an example

[2:19:09] but we're giving grant

[2:19:09] oftentimes the

[2:19:14] plan for a community is to not

[2:19:15] improve it so that they come

[2:19:16] higher on a priority list for a

[2:19:18] grant and then we give a grant

[2:19:19] for a consent order to implement

[2:19:20] that

[2:19:21] I've heard him say it

[2:19:25] So

[2:19:28] maybe we should look at the

[2:19:29] policy and say

[2:19:33] you you you come to your

[2:19:33] affordability rate

[2:19:36] and then we'll provide grants to

[2:19:37] help you above that

[2:19:39] as a taxpayer

[2:19:44] this is part of the problem with

[2:19:45] regionalization that I hear we

[2:19:46] talk about Friday night football

[2:19:48] fights and communities don't

[2:19:49] want to combine and that's part

[2:19:50] of it

[2:19:52] but I've heard a lot of it is

[2:19:55] that one community has let their

[2:19:55] system go bad

[2:19:58] and the other community didn't

[2:20:00] want to combine with them

[2:20:00] because they don't want to

[2:20:01] subsidize that community

[2:20:07] We have to look at these small

[2:20:08] communities that can't afford it

[2:20:10] regionalization is in their

[2:20:11] future

[2:20:16] the other communities regionally

[2:20:18] like southwestokklahoma like

[2:20:20] Fosse Reservoir like northwest

[2:20:22] Oklahoma like the panhandle

[2:20:26] we've got to pull local people

[2:20:28] together stakeholder development

[2:20:30] and let them

[2:20:30] understand

[2:20:34] what their future's gonna look

[2:20:35] like and they have to plan that.

[2:20:37] and it works

[2:20:40] So

[2:20:46] that's my spiel we have our

[2:20:47] okcaon conference

[2:20:52] coming up October 14th we are

[2:20:54] doing this we're having one day

[2:20:55] on community sustainability

[2:20:59] and we're gonna talk about

[2:21:00] affordability rates we're gonna

[2:21:01] we we're expecting about 100

[2:21:05] people to come with the

[2:21:06] department of commerce we're

[2:21:08] gonna specifically talk about

[2:21:09] economic development and water

[2:21:10] and wastewater infrastructure

[2:21:14] on the in the comprehensive

[2:21:16] water plan the water board says

[2:21:17] so I don't have to own this

[2:21:17] number

[2:21:20] a billion dollars of investment

[2:21:21] is24,000 jobs

[2:21:23] that's investment in

[2:21:23] infrastructure

[2:21:27] think if we put $10 billion in

[2:21:30] 10 years240,000 jobs

[2:21:34] Department of Commerce is coming

[2:21:36] and they're going to help we're

[2:21:38] going to help with a plan and

[2:21:39] help with a policy on how we do

[2:21:39] that

[2:21:42] I don't know exactly how it's

[2:21:43] going to turn out

[2:21:46] but I'm excited to go through

[2:21:47] the process thank you very much

[2:21:52] Any questions

[2:21:52] smith

[2:21:56] thank you very much very very

[2:21:58] informative thank you very much

[2:21:59] for that presentation

[2:22:00] right

[2:22:05] we and this would like to now

[2:22:07] call Mr Kimball to the table to

[2:22:07] present

[2:22:10] so we've talked about

[2:22:12] infrastructure we've talked

[2:22:14] about sustainability

[2:22:18] so let's dream a little bit and

[2:22:20] so I have called Mr Kimblell

[2:22:22] here to help us and we talked

[2:22:26] about water transfer and so I'm

[2:22:28] gonna let him talk about

[2:22:30] that. Did you have some handouts

[2:22:31] that you want to give out or

[2:22:31] anything?

[2:22:38] I'm not quite as sophisticated

[2:22:39] as some of these others what

[2:22:42] what I have is a legal pad and

[2:22:44] an $8 calculator from Office

[2:22:46] Depot. Well you're you recognize

[2:22:48] if we go with that thank you

[2:22:50] very much for being here thank

[2:22:52] you so much for inviting me this

[2:22:53] is something that's near and

[2:22:54] dearer to my heart that I've

[2:22:55] been working on for a few years

[2:22:58] I've buttonholed a few of the of

[2:23:02] the legislators I am very

[2:23:04] proud member of the Grand River

[2:23:06] Dam Authority Board I've been on

[2:23:08] that board starting my 14enth

[2:23:10] year I do represent the House of

[2:23:12] Representatives on that board

[2:23:14] our board's made up of three

[2:23:16] appointments from the governor's

[2:23:17] office one from the speaker one

[2:23:18] from the prote

[2:23:22] one from the cities we sell to

[2:23:24] and one that from the co ops

[2:23:25] that we sell to

[2:23:26] we're on and I was just

[2:23:28] appointed last week for another

[2:23:29] five year term so I'm a glutton

[2:23:30] for punishment

[2:23:34] Grad River Dam Authority from

[2:23:36] from the people in the room here

[2:23:39] is owned 100% by the state of

[2:23:42] Oklahoma we were formed in 1935

[2:23:47] to take care of the new

[2:23:50] reservoir that was built at

[2:23:51] Grove Oklahoma and Pensacola Dam

[2:23:54] our dam is

[2:23:56] mile long

[2:24:02] it didn't it impos uh40,000

[2:24:02] acres of water

[2:24:06] it's66 miles long 140 ft deep

[2:24:08] and 938 miles of shoreline

[2:24:12] and they were talking earlier

[2:24:14] about water transfer water

[2:24:15] transfer is a big pro big

[2:24:15] project

[2:24:19] and if you come to from

[2:24:20] western Oklahoma and say we're

[2:24:22] going to put a a pipe in Grand

[2:24:24] Lake and start pumping water

[2:24:24] west

[2:24:28] or you're gonna hear a lot of a

[2:24:28] lot of people probably start

[2:24:29] hollering

[2:24:32] so it's very difficult to go in

[2:24:33] and say we're going to take

[2:24:34] water from here and take it to

[2:24:35] there

[2:24:37] even if you don't need it where

[2:24:37] it's at

[2:24:38] but

[2:24:42] it's not difficult to take the

[2:24:44] water away from the people in

[2:24:45] New Orleans Louisiana

[2:24:48] Most people don't really

[2:24:49] understand

[2:24:53] the water in Grand

[2:24:53] Lakenyoshoriver

[2:24:57] and when Grand Lake was formed

[2:24:58] the department of Interior gave

[2:25:02] the neosho river forms from the

[2:25:03] sppring river and the

[2:25:06] Neoshoriver coming out of Kansas

[2:25:07] at Twinridges State Park

[2:25:12] GRDA and the state of Oklahoma

[2:25:12] own the water

[2:25:16] from Twinridges State Park

[2:25:20] that goes through Grand Lake

[2:25:22] goes through Lake Hudson goes

[2:25:24] through Lake Fort Gibson we

[2:25:26] don't own Fort Gibson but we do

[2:25:26] own the water in it

[2:25:29] and that water belongs to the

[2:25:29] state of Oklahoma

[2:25:32] until it gets to the Arkansas

[2:25:33] river

[2:25:36] we're not controlled by the

[2:25:38] corps of engineers as most of

[2:25:40] the dams and rivers in the state

[2:25:41] are

[2:25:44] if a city or somebody wants

[2:25:46] water out of our reservoir they

[2:25:48] don't go to the water resources

[2:25:50] board they go to our seven

[2:25:51] member board

[2:25:54] our seven member board sets the

[2:25:56] water rates we dr char we charge

[2:25:58] about $13.5 per 1000 gallons for

[2:25:59] water

[2:26:00] it's pretty

[2:26:04] misunderstood around the lake

[2:26:08] but my concept is not to take

[2:26:10] water out of Grand Lake or Lake

[2:26:11] Hudson or Lake Fort Gibson.

[2:26:15] because the water is owned by

[2:26:16] the state of Oklahoma and GRDA

[2:26:20] it is not a primary source for

[2:26:22] water to be used in the

[2:26:24] navigation channel that's

[2:26:24] controlled by the corps of

[2:26:25] engineers

[2:26:28] when we generate electricity at

[2:26:29] Pensacola Dam at Grand Lake

[2:26:32] our water goes intolake Hudson

[2:26:36] into Lake Fort Gibson into the

[2:26:37] Arkansas river

[2:26:38] to LittleRock

[2:26:43] to the Mississippi river and to

[2:26:46] the Gulf of Mexico it's not used

[2:26:48] for navigation it's not used for

[2:26:51] irrigation it's not used as

[2:26:53] potable water oncece it goes

[2:26:54] through generation it's going to

[2:26:55] New orleans

[2:26:58] and used for absolutely nothing

[2:27:02] when we're generating

[2:27:03] electricity at Pensacola Dam

[2:27:07] we have6 generators and when

[2:27:08] we're generating full generation

[2:27:12] we're releasing 13,500 cubic

[2:27:13] feet of water per second.

[2:27:18] cubic foot of water7.48 gallons

[2:27:24] if we captured 1000 cubic foot a

[2:27:25] second

[2:27:28] of the 1ir5 still sending tw25

[2:27:29] south

[2:27:36] we would be capturing7,480

[2:27:36] gallons of water every second

[2:27:41] 448000 gallons of water every

[2:27:41] minute

[2:27:48] 646272000 gallons of water

[2:27:49] every24 hours

[2:27:54] that's2.5 times the amount of

[2:27:55] water that the city of Tulsa

[2:27:56] treats everyday

[2:27:59] that's a lot of water

[2:28:02] and that belongs to us at the

[2:28:03] state of Oklahoma

[2:28:08] the moving it west

[2:28:09] is

[2:28:10] difficult

[2:28:12] but not impossible

[2:28:16] right now there's a pipeline or

[2:28:18] may have just recently been

[2:28:20] completed coming from aokka to

[2:28:21] Oklahoma City 98.6 miles

[2:28:25] it's a se2 inch line and that

[2:28:27] line carries just a little over

[2:28:29] 100 million gallons of water a

[2:28:29] day

[2:28:32] that water line cost $800

[2:28:33] million

[2:28:38] we would need6 of those lines to

[2:28:40] move the water west

[2:28:44] that we could produce every day

[2:28:47] by capturing 1000 cubic foot a

[2:28:48] second

[2:28:52] and just let your mind wander a

[2:28:53] minute and say well know what

[2:28:54] happens if we'd go down and do

[2:28:55] the same thing below Lake

[2:28:55] Hudson.

[2:28:58] what if we did the same thing

[2:29:00] below the dam at Fort Gibson.

[2:29:01] it's our water

[2:29:03] that would be capturing 3000

[2:29:08] of the 13,500 cubic foot a

[2:29:10] 2nd and 2 billion gallons of

[2:29:11] water

[2:29:13] every24 hours.

[2:29:18] that it's not being used for

[2:29:20] anything in the state of

[2:29:20] Oklahoma today

[2:29:24] we would be sending

[2:29:26] 200 acre feet

[2:29:31] of water west every day from one

[2:29:32] of our facilities

[2:29:40] Now there's peoples people are a

[2:29:42] little bit questionable about

[2:29:44] some of our our metrics there

[2:29:45] but I promise you the numbers

[2:29:46] are correct. I've worked with

[2:29:47] Burnsmcdonald Engineering

[2:29:48] Company

[2:29:50] and

[2:29:50] said well

[2:29:54] what do you do with the water

[2:29:55] when it gets there you may not

[2:29:56] need it all the time but it's

[2:29:57] real simple

[2:30:00] you use it for irrigation you

[2:30:01] use it for what cities need it

[2:30:04] and what you don't need you

[2:30:04] refill or aquifers

[2:30:06] what a novel idea

[2:30:12] hass anybody done that? yes it's

[2:30:13] being done in Wichita Kansas

[2:30:13] today

[2:30:16] I was in Wichita four years ago

[2:30:19] they take water they just treat

[2:30:21] 30 million gallons a day out of

[2:30:22] the littlet Arkansas river. I

[2:30:24] don't know if anybody's ever

[2:30:25] been to the littlettle Arkansas

[2:30:25] River up by Wichita

[2:30:28] but that water's about like

[2:30:29] thirtyweight motor oil.

[2:30:34] and it can only flow enough that

[2:30:35] they can only operate their

[2:30:36] facility 9 months out of the

[2:30:37] year

[2:30:40] they take that water and put it

[2:30:42] in set in a settling basin then

[2:30:44] they run it through a filters

[2:30:46] very simple filtration and then

[2:30:48] they run it through ultraviolet

[2:30:50] light to kill the bacteria.alf

[2:30:51] of it goes to

[2:30:54] Wichita to treat for city water

[2:30:57] the other half goes to refill

[2:30:58] aquifers

[2:31:02] one of the aquifers up there I

[2:31:03] just

[2:31:04] got looked at a report

[2:31:05] just the other day

[2:31:08] was500 million

[2:31:09] acre feet

[2:31:14] reduced from 1940 until now

[2:31:20] in the last 9 years,2/3 of that

[2:31:21] has been refilled

[2:31:21] 2 / 3

[2:31:26] and every aquifer in our state

[2:31:27] today is being

[2:31:30] every one of them

[2:31:32] cities they're using wells

[2:31:34] going dry

[2:31:38] we have the water it's in the

[2:31:39] wrong place

[2:31:42] it can be moved

[2:31:44] you can move

[2:31:49] a lot of water and it's going to

[2:31:50] cost about

[2:31:51] 4 to5 billion dollars

[2:31:54] that sounds like a lot of money

[2:31:56] but I promise you

[2:31:59] in just a few years

[2:32:02] that's going to be very very

[2:32:03] inexpensive

[2:32:06] probably not in my lifetime.

[2:32:07] I'm80 years old

[2:32:08] we'll see

[2:32:12] our water more valuable than our

[2:32:13] oil.

[2:32:14] it's coming.

[2:32:20] and we have the water our water

[2:32:21] quality is very very good

[2:32:25] we have our own water quality

[2:32:27] PhD on staff we have a water

[2:32:27] quality lab

[2:32:32] that is second only to DEQs and

[2:32:33] three years ago for the first

[2:32:36] time in26 years the nitrogen

[2:32:37] level in Grand Lake started

[2:32:37] decreasing

[2:32:40] and it's decreasing every year

[2:32:41] at the water clarity is getting

[2:32:42] better

[2:32:45] Arkansas river produces a lot of

[2:32:46] water but it's a lot harder to

[2:32:47] treat because of the salinity

[2:32:51] our water is very easy to treat.

[2:32:51] it's very clean water

[2:32:56] the the water is

[2:33:00] more than anything is ours

[2:33:00] without

[2:33:03] the core of engineer inference

[2:33:04] that we have at the rest of our

[2:33:05] reservoirs

[2:33:06] the

[2:33:10] the value

[2:33:12] of that water

[2:33:16] will be noticed real quickly by

[2:33:18] somebody we'll see private

[2:33:19] enterprise come in and try to

[2:33:19] get our water

[2:33:22] I beg you to keep that water

[2:33:25] for our children and

[2:33:26] grandchildren's future in

[2:33:27] economic development in this

[2:33:28] state

[2:33:32] our biggest natural resource

[2:33:33] was oil

[2:33:38] we have some income from oil but

[2:33:40] our jobs went back south they

[2:33:41] went to Texas

[2:33:45] with our water moving around the

[2:33:46] state where it's needed

[2:33:50] we can produce jobs for our

[2:33:52] children and grandchildren that

[2:33:53] are just not even really thought

[2:33:53] of today

[2:33:56] when you think of of things you

[2:33:58] have water we've ur heard

[2:33:59] earlier today about the data

[2:33:59] centers

[2:34:03] we have the second largest data

[2:34:04] center in the world Prior

[2:34:05] Oklahoma

[2:34:06] and we supply the water it's not

[2:34:07] a problem

[2:34:12] google is a very good customer

[2:34:13] of ours but they do use a lot of

[2:34:13] water

[2:34:16] but when you look at the

[2:34:17] industry

[2:34:20] silicone chips use a lot of

[2:34:22] water to make too and they

[2:34:22] produce really good jobs

[2:34:26] but you can't go to Dallas and

[2:34:26] Fort Worth and make silicon

[2:34:28] chips today because they don't

[2:34:29] have any water for you

[2:34:31] they've got incentive money

[2:34:32] they can write you a big check

[2:34:36] but if you tell them you need200

[2:34:37] million gallons of water a day

[2:34:38] they'll sell byebye

[2:34:38] they don't have it

[2:34:46] My presentation is not fancy

[2:34:46] it's not a lot of charts

[2:34:50] it's just bare facts we have the

[2:34:51] water

[2:34:53] it's in the wrong place

[2:34:57] in today's dollars it's very

[2:34:57] costly to move it

[2:34:58] how

[2:35:02] it's going to be very

[2:35:04] inexpensive in the years to come

[2:35:05] particularly

[2:35:08] when you look at the jobs that

[2:35:09] it can produce

[2:35:12] just imagine what could be done

[2:35:13] at Burn's flat

[2:35:14] just imagine

[2:35:18] you know the one thing the the

[2:35:19] marijuana people taught us

[2:35:22] is how much we can do with drip

[2:35:23] irrigation

[2:35:24] it's about the only good thing

[2:35:25] they did but

[2:35:30] get political there a minute

[2:35:33] but with drip irrigation

[2:35:39] we can we can raise crops that

[2:35:41] you don't even think about today

[2:35:42] they're closing lettuce fields

[2:35:43] in California because they have

[2:35:44] no water

[2:35:46] you see what they're doing with

[2:35:47] the Colorado river today

[2:35:49] Phoenix just canceled

[2:35:54] a60 home development because

[2:35:55] they could not get water permit

[2:36:00] they have the jobs they have the

[2:36:02] people needing the housing but

[2:36:03] they can't build the housing

[2:36:03] because they don't have the

[2:36:04] water

[2:36:06] we have the water now it's time

[2:36:07] to get the jobs

[2:36:08] we can build the houses

[2:36:12] we can do everything we need

[2:36:14] with the water that we own in

[2:36:17] the state of Oklahoma that's

[2:36:19] literally been overlooked for a

[2:36:19] few years

[2:36:23] I'll be happy to answer any

[2:36:23] questions

[2:36:28] we have we just have a great

[2:36:29] resource that

[2:36:32] that I hope you all will take a

[2:36:33] closer look at

[2:36:36] keep it in the hands of the

[2:36:38] state of Oklahoma let the state

[2:36:41] of Oklahoma prospers and not

[2:36:42] private enterprise off of our

[2:36:43] natural resource

[2:36:46] and give our children and

[2:36:46] grandchildren a chance

[2:36:47] to have

[2:36:52] a great place to come back to

[2:36:52] after school and live

[2:36:56] and let those those boys and

[2:36:57] girls wearing those blue FFfa

[2:36:58] jackets let them have a future

[2:37:01] where they grew up in

[2:37:01] westernokklahoma

[2:37:08] we can feed if you go to go to

[2:37:11] a bottle of water that we we

[2:37:13] sell for a a bucket quick trip

[2:37:17] you buy a case it's cents a

[2:37:17] bottle at Walmart

[2:37:21] that same bottle at Walmart in

[2:37:22] California is about42 cents

[2:37:30] So I'll be more than happy to

[2:37:31] answer any questions

[2:37:34] Any questions

[2:37:36] So

[2:37:38] I have a question

[2:37:42] so how much do you say it would

[2:37:44] cost to put a what size

[2:37:46] pipeline basically a76 inch

[2:37:49] the atoka pipeline72 inches

[2:37:50] about as large as you'd want to

[2:37:52] build and that's what the atoka

[2:37:56] pipeline is. it runs 98.6 miles

[2:37:58] from aokk at Oklahoma City to to

[2:38:00] the lake here to get to

[2:38:06] Fairview or Comanche you're

[2:38:08] gonna it's going to be about 190

[2:38:09] miles from Pensacola so

[2:38:13] you're looking at probably if

[2:38:15] it was 800 million for 100 miles

[2:38:16] today it'll probably be a

[2:38:17] billion for hund0 miles so

[2:38:18] you're looking at2 billion

[2:38:19] dollars probably

[2:38:20] to build that pipeline

[2:38:24] and they follow

[2:38:28] so they could and that would be

[2:38:30] able to you'd have to do some

[2:38:32] filtration to inject that down

[2:38:34] into the aquifers is that

[2:38:34] correct or can it go straight

[2:38:35] into there?

[2:38:38] you can put it into the aquifers

[2:38:41] with either sediment aquifer

[2:38:42] there's a lot of different

[2:38:43] aquifers and there's a lot of

[2:38:44] smarter people in the room on

[2:38:46] that there's there's different

[2:38:47] types of aquifers some are

[2:38:49] easier to recharge than others

[2:38:52] some can be done with just

[2:38:54] settlement basing some has done

[2:38:55] with the low powered injection

[2:38:55] wells

[2:39:00] but there again the technology

[2:39:01] is there they're already doing

[2:39:01] it

[2:39:04] and any time you have excess

[2:39:05] water in that pipeline

[2:39:09] 24 hours a day just keep filling

[2:39:10] the aquifers

[2:39:13] one of the big issues on any

[2:39:14] pipeline is right away

[2:39:19] GRDA happens to have high

[2:39:21] lines in75 or77 counties some of

[2:39:24] our some of our right away you

[2:39:25] can use for pipelines some you

[2:39:25] can't

[2:39:29] but if I go out to western

[2:39:30] western Oklahoma and tell a

[2:39:31] farmer I'm gonna run a big high

[2:39:36] 300 ft tall transmission line

[2:39:38] across his farm and it's going

[2:39:40] to pop and crackle and snap and

[2:39:42] scare your cows he's gonna

[2:39:43] probably lawyer up and be ugly

[2:39:43] with us

[2:39:46] If I go tell him I'm gonna run a

[2:39:49] a pipeline across the the corner

[2:39:52] of his property and his cows can

[2:39:53] still graze on it you can bale

[2:39:54] the hay on top of it. you're

[2:39:56] going to see a vent pipe every

[2:39:58] mile or two

[2:40:00] and we're gonna put up a meter

[2:40:02] on that and all you got to do is

[2:40:03] call this number and we'll

[2:40:04] remotely turn that meter on you

[2:40:06] you can water your

[2:40:10] your cows you can fill your farm

[2:40:11] ponds or you can irrigate

[2:40:12] he's gonna probably hug me

[2:40:20] I have a question what is the

[2:40:23] elevation at the Grandriverd Dam

[2:40:23] with this water is

[2:40:27] what's the elevation? OK at the

[2:40:29] bottom of the dam the elevation

[2:40:31] is right at600 feet above sea

[2:40:34] level. The increase in elevation

[2:40:37] from pensacola Dam to westford

[2:40:38] Oklahoma is almost the same

[2:40:42] difference in elevation from a

[2:40:44] toka to Oklahoma City it's very

[2:40:46] close it's about 350 ft

[2:40:46] depending on

[2:40:47] where you go with it

[2:40:51] that's where I was going with

[2:40:52] that what would the elevation be

[2:40:54] to like uhpresentative Duton's

[2:40:57] area are you 1500 ft or do you

[2:40:58] know what your elevation is?

[2:41:02] that that's my question is

[2:41:05] pumping water uphill is very

[2:41:07] difficult have you looked into

[2:41:08] the engineering on that what it

[2:41:10] would take to pump 1000 ft

[2:41:11] uphill

[2:41:16] the pumping water is very

[2:41:18] difficult. there's a lot of

[2:41:19] better technology today they've

[2:41:20] done some excellent technology

[2:41:21] on the atoka pipeline

[2:41:26] the one thing about we're

[2:41:27] in the electric business

[2:41:31] and so we we have the electric

[2:41:34] lines in75 or se77 counties so

[2:41:36] it's the electricity that we

[2:41:36] generate could be used for part

[2:41:37] of it

[2:41:40] the way it works with FERCederal

[2:41:42] Energyregulatory Commission if

[2:41:44] there's any any high line any

[2:41:48] any real water district lines

[2:41:51] anything close to it they have

[2:41:52] to let us run our electricity

[2:41:54] over that line and FERC sets the

[2:41:56] tariff on that as to how much we

[2:41:58] pay for doing it lus we could do

[2:42:00] we could utilize the technology

[2:42:04] on some solar panels to to

[2:42:04] operate some of the pumps

[2:42:08] there's a a mixture of

[2:42:09] answers there

[2:42:12] depends on the geography more

[2:42:12] than anything

[2:42:19] you but the answer is we can get

[2:42:19] the water west

[2:42:22] and the other answer is we do

[2:42:23] have the water

[2:42:27] thank you Mr Kimblell any other

[2:42:27] questions?

[2:42:30] OK

[2:42:32] so summarizing

[2:42:34] water is essential

[2:42:36] we have a need

[2:42:40] waterter's crucial to our future

[2:42:44] and a last part I've asked Mr

[2:42:46] Kimball to give us another

[2:42:48] possibility to dream. what can

[2:42:52] we do to help solve a problem

[2:42:55] here and so I appreciate all the

[2:42:57] presenters. thank you very much

[2:42:59] for the information. I think it

[2:43:00] was very informative. I thank

[2:43:02] you for all the members

[2:43:05] attending and with that I'll

[2:43:06] turn back over to the chairman.

[2:43:07] Miss chairirman thank you very

[2:43:08] much for allowing us to have

[2:43:09] this study

[2:43:13] that concludes interim study for

[2:43:14] today we're all dismissed thank

Agriculture

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