[0:19] well I, if I were you I'd go to

[0:20] the store and get some of the

[0:21] Bob Evans mashed potatoes so you

[0:22] don't have to make them to make

[0:25] you know what I'm talking about

[0:27] they're pretty good. I think

[0:28] they sell them the wrongs

[0:32] I think the you call I call

[0:33] first to make sure they have

[0:34] some pretty girl over there

[0:36] but that way you could at least

[0:36] go ahead and have your mashed

[0:37] potatoes

[0:48] you can get all of that at ro's

[0:48] too you don't have to go I want

[0:49] to

[1:43] right

[1:50] sorry about that senatorice umlm

[1:53] the we're a little bit less

[1:54] formal with our interim studies

[1:57] than we are with regular

[1:59] senate meetings but the

[2:04] interim study2026-72 will now

[2:06] come to order and the way

[2:07] we're going to run it as

[2:11] Senatorice will call her

[2:13] presenters and if there's any

[2:15] place that when you're

[2:16] ready for questions or the

[2:16] present

[2:20] ers need to be ready for

[2:20] questions that's fine

[2:24] if we need to take a brief

[2:26] recess or anything like that

[2:27] because we're having some

[2:29] technological difficulties and

[2:31] we'll address those as they

[2:34] arise so without further ado

[2:35] Senatorice ma'am the floor is

[2:36] yours

[2:39] thank you Mr chairir and our

[2:41] members of the committee I know

[2:43] we will be expecting at least

[2:45] one or a couple more. thank you

[2:47] for the opportunity to present

[2:49] the centrum study and thank you

[2:50] for those attending today's

[2:53] interim study online and in

[2:55] those in attendance that are

[2:57] watching in special gratitude

[2:59] topresentative Ellen Heffner

[3:03] for being here with me on this

[3:05] afternoon. I would also like to

[3:06] acknowledge the Oklahoma

[3:06] animalimal coal

[3:09] ition for organizing today's

[3:10] discussion and bringing together

[3:11] experts from across the state

[3:14] and the nation. Oklahoma is

[3:16] currently the only state in the

[3:18] country with a mandatory pound

[3:20] seizure statute that was enacted

[3:21] in 1957.

[3:27] and this law allows research

[3:29] institutions to compel municipal

[3:31] shelters to surrender unclaimed

[3:33] dogs and cats for research

[3:35] unless a local opt out ordinance

[3:37] is in place and as you will hear

[3:39] today this practice has not been

[3:41] used in many years and federal

[3:44] policy has shifted decisively

[3:46] away from random source animal

[3:49] acquisition and modern research

[3:51] increasingly relies on human

[3:52] relevant methods our go

[3:55] al this afternoon is

[3:56] straightforward to examine

[3:57] whether this statute still

[4:00] serves a practical purpose to

[4:01] understand its impact on

[4:03] shelters and to evaluate whether

[4:06] Oklahoma should consider repeal

[4:09] or modernization. I appreciate

[4:10] the committee's attention to

[4:11] this issue and I look forward to

[4:13] the perspectives that our

[4:16] presenters will share and we do

[4:19] have a quite a few presenters

[4:21] with us today and all of them

[4:22] have expertise on this topic

[4:22] more

[4:25] expertise than I do so I'm very

[4:27] grateful that they are with us

[4:29] so we will hear more about pound

[4:31] seizure and overview of the

[4:32] practice and history of pound

[4:34] seizure within our state

[4:37] licensing of institutions to

[4:39] procure live dogs and cats from

[4:41] municipal animal shelters pound

[4:42] seizure and its effect on urban

[4:45] municipal animal shelters and

[4:47] regional and national

[4:49] perspective regarding animal

[4:50] research and random source

[4:52] testing in a case study Freedom

[4:52] Fields in solution

[4:55] s to address pound seizures in

[4:57] Oklahoma and we welcome all

[4:58] questions from our committee

[5:01] members and I will follow up

[5:03] with questions as well so we

[5:04] will go with the order of

[5:09] the agenda we have on the agenda

[5:11] a presenter who is not present

[5:13] with us today but we will

[5:15] continue with the conversation

[5:18] so we will begin with Shannon

[5:21] Keith Esquire for president and

[5:22] founder of the beaglereedom

[5:25] Project following her after

[5:27] questions we'll have Ccynthia

[5:29] Armstrong, the Oklahoma state

[5:31] director of humane world for

[5:33] animalimals and following that

[5:35] we will have Tina Gunter Esquire

[5:36] she is the general

[5:39] council director of Oklahoma

[5:40] department of agriculture Food

[5:43] and forestry we also have Miss

[5:47] sherrieerrier the director of

[5:49] Tulsa Animal Services Lindsay

[5:51] Sofi she's the head of programs

[5:54] for rise for animalimals and we

[5:57] will close again with Shannon

[5:59] Keith Esquire with the

[6:00] beaglereedom Project so very

[6:01] grateful that all of those are

[6:03] in attendance with us on today

[6:05] and look forward to this great

[6:06] discuss

[6:08] ion so without further ado I

[6:11] welcome comments about what

[6:13] is a pound seizure from Miss

[6:14] Shannon Keith.

[6:21] right oh here I am

[6:24] thank you so much thank you for

[6:26] having us I'm Shannon Keith.

[6:27] I'm an animal rights attorney

[6:29] and president and founder

[6:31] ofeagle Freedom Project we're a

[6:35] nonprofit501c3 animal

[6:37] advocacygan organization and we

[6:39] specialize in rescuing

[6:41] rehabilitating and rehoming

[6:43] animals used in animal research

[6:46] we have a facility in Nowata,

[6:48] Oklahoma we shut down an animal

[6:51] testing facility there and we

[6:52] took custody of all of the

[6:55] animals there and we now have a

[6:57] facility that is a sanctuary and

[7:00] beautiful facility of 30 acres

[7:01] where we have animals that are

[7:05] victims of animal testing.

[7:06] I'm gonna make this quick

[7:06] because I'm gonna be rounding it

[7:08] out at the end and talking all

[7:10] about pound seizure what it is

[7:12] the statistics the research

[7:15] that we've done in Oklahoma

[7:17] with the municipal shelters here

[7:19] what we found out what we do

[7:21] specifically but I wanted to

[7:22] show you all

[7:24] a video that we made over the

[7:25] years we've been around

[7:27] since2010 and we've done a lot

[7:29] of rescuing we've rescued

[7:31] over4,500 animals from animal

[7:33] testing and a lot of those

[7:35] animals were the victims of

[7:37] pound's seizure and what that

[7:38] means is that

[7:41] these animals these dogs and

[7:44] cats were in the pound and we

[7:45] don't know how they ended up

[7:47] there whether they got lost,

[7:48] they were somebody's family

[7:49] member

[7:52] and they were stray however they

[7:53] ended up there they then were

[7:55] either sold or given to an

[7:57] animal testing laboratory and

[7:58] they're used for testing

[8:00] luckily

[8:03] through one circumstance or

[8:05] another our organization was

[8:06] able to rescue some of them but

[8:09] they were just a drop in the

[8:10] bucket

[8:12] there are many more that didn't

[8:13] get the opportunity to be

[8:16] rescued so this video shows

[8:19] the story of two lucky survivors

[8:21] that we had the opportunity to

[8:24] rescue and shows you a little

[8:26] bit in depth of what their

[8:28] rescue stories were like and how

[8:31] meaningful it is to rescue these

[8:34] survivors and how important it

[8:35] is to stop this practice

[8:36] so here's a little bit about us

[8:37] and their stories

[8:41] and play

[8:43] is that the right button

[8:47] No

[8:49] there we go

[9:15] this is nutmeg. she is the

[9:19] sweetest lovable cuddly little

[9:20] nutmeg

[9:23] and she's really silly and she's

[9:24] really kind.

[9:27] o a does her dance parties and

[9:28] that my watches

[9:31] they're a little pair

[9:38] nutmegs so sweet and lovable but

[9:41] to know also that humans did

[9:41] like horrible things to her.

[9:46] utmeg came from a lab

[9:50] in the lab had gotten her from a

[9:50] pound

[10:01] we had no idea that labs could

[10:02] get dogs from the pound.

[10:07] I was shocked because like I

[10:09] loved dogs my whole life but I'd

[10:11] never like heard of that to be

[10:13] happy in America people in our

[10:14] country would even think that

[10:15] that's something acceptable

[10:23] this is max. he was a pound

[10:25] seizure. he's got a lot of

[10:27] incisions they have a lab they

[10:29] were surgically implanting

[10:30] tumors all over his body

[10:34] I'm just amazed at how forgiving

[10:36] he is because I can't imagine

[10:37] what he was going through

[10:40] when she was rescued she was

[10:40] underweight she was

[10:45] caged pretty much24/7 but also

[10:48] tested on I think it was like

[10:49] some sort of medications and

[10:51] something to do with tumors that

[10:52] made her very susceptible to

[10:53] tumors.

[10:55] and she needed a few surgeries

[10:59] and the fact that she's so sweet

[11:00] is to it's crazy to me

[11:05] I feel like when they're pulling

[11:07] the dogs to tests on were

[11:08] violating that trust.

[11:11] I think it's just a sad

[11:13] manipulation that we're you

[11:16] violating that relationship and

[11:19] violating just the trust that's

[11:20] always been there between dogs

[11:20] and people

[11:31] then and only child I sometimes

[11:32] get lonely cause like I want to

[11:34] play with someone but like

[11:37] nutmeg cheese almost like she's

[11:38] like my really best friend

[11:41] for me as her dad to like know

[11:43] that she has such a sweet just

[11:45] such a sweet soul in there too

[11:47] and like the bond that they've

[11:48] grown it's almost like to the

[11:49] level of siblings like they're

[11:50] they're inseparable.

[11:56] that bond between a dog and its

[11:57] family and a dog and its owner

[11:58] and a dog and its person

[11:59] is

[12:02] something that's unbreakable for

[12:02] them

[12:06] you know something that's really

[12:07] should be cherished as a

[12:08] really special thing

[12:13] we have a lot of neighbors that

[12:14] are out in the morning when

[12:17] we're going on our walk and he

[12:18] well he will say hi to them.

[12:19] they'll kind of he knows the

[12:21] houses and he'll pull off to the

[12:22] side and he'll want to greet

[12:23] them

[12:27] he just wants to show love.

[12:35] that's her little sister it's

[12:37] it's our baby it's our member of

[12:39] our family so when you're making

[12:40] laws to think about that

[12:54] they deserve to run around the

[12:56] yard playing with the ball

[12:59] rolling onto their back getting

[13:01] belly scratches we need to give

[13:03] all of these dogs a chance to

[13:06] love us and to receive that

[13:06] love.

[13:11] it's what type of society do we

[13:13] want to be in this country? do

[13:15] we want to be one that cast

[13:16] aside animals we can give them

[13:19] over to labs for testing or do

[13:20] we want to aspire to be better

[13:24] and think about them as members

[13:26] of people's families babies

[13:26] siblings

[13:29] that's the whole point of what

[13:31] our laws should aspire to be a

[13:33] better society and it's a better

[13:34] country as a whole

[14:08] M Armstrong if you'll just

[14:09] pushed your button to

[14:11] where your red light on your

[14:13] microphone lights up then we'll

[14:14] be able to hear you and if you

[14:15] don't mind just introduce

[14:17] yourself again please Yes I will

[14:18] thank you so much

[14:22] so my name iscynthia

[14:22] Armstrong

[14:25] I'm the Oklahoma state director

[14:27] for humanmane world for

[14:30] animalimals. I have worked in

[14:31] that position for the last

[14:32] couple of decades

[14:37] in Oklahoma and it has been

[14:39] my privilege to work with many

[14:41] state and local policymakers

[14:45] as well as provide trainings for

[14:47] our law enforcement agencies

[14:49] across Oklahoma in the

[14:50] investigation of crimes of

[14:50] animal cruelty

[14:54] and I have also had the very

[14:55] distinct pleasure of working

[14:57] with many of our municipal

[14:59] animal shelters and humane

[15:00] organizations

[15:03] across the state and they do

[15:05] really frontline life saving

[15:06] work so

[15:09] that has been my privilege. they

[15:11] work hard to make sure that

[15:13] animals like nutmeg make it out

[15:15] of these shelters and into

[15:16] loving homes

[15:19] Now I am going to advance my own

[15:20] slides if I can

[15:21] figure this out

[15:23] that work

[15:25] Oh here we go

[15:28] OK

[15:33] So in my presentation what I

[15:35] really want to cover is what

[15:37] is pound seizure how did that

[15:39] begin and and gain traction in

[15:40] the United States

[15:44] what are the key dates that

[15:46] we want to know in the evolution

[15:49] of the practice of pound seizure

[15:50] what does that look like

[15:50] nationally

[15:53] which states prohibit it which

[15:54] states

[15:55] have no

[15:59] opinion on it at all or at least

[16:01] no statute and then which states

[16:05] mandate it and of course that is

[16:07] the state of Oklahoma the only

[16:08] state that still mandates the

[16:08] practice.

[16:13] we'll talk specifically about

[16:14] the history of pound seizure in

[16:14] Oklahoma

[16:19] and issues with the practice why

[16:20] is it considered controversial

[16:23] is it still needed given the

[16:25] scientific advancements in the

[16:27] field of animal research and and

[16:28] human research

[16:30] and then where do we go from

[16:31] here? what are our options

[16:33] and and recommendations

[16:41] so pound seizure really gained a

[16:42] lot of traction in the United

[16:43] States in the fort0s and50s.

[16:47] in these pan seizure laws

[16:49] started being enacted state by

[16:52] state. uhokklahoma's was enacted

[16:53] in 1951

[16:57] and during the fortiess and

[17:00] fiftiess postorld WarI there was

[17:03] a resurgence of a lot of

[17:04] interest

[17:07] in biomedical and pharmaceutical

[17:10] research and also commercial

[17:11] product development which would

[17:12] involve testing of animals

[17:16] and they determined rightly or

[17:18] wrongly that there was a

[17:21] plentiful supply of animals to

[17:22] be testing subjects

[17:25] in the shelters around the

[17:27] United States so they went state

[17:29] by state and lobbied to mandate

[17:31] pan seizure in a number of

[17:32] states

[17:34] it

[17:37] obviously

[17:39] it involves

[17:43] research institutions or

[17:46] middlemen calledlass B dealers

[17:47] coming to a shelter and

[17:48] demanding the unclaimed pets

[17:51] for use in research

[17:55] experimentation or testing or

[17:56] education

[18:03] So these key dates really relate

[18:04] to

[18:09] the random sourcela B dealer and

[18:11] as soon as the pound seizure

[18:12] statutes were enacted

[18:16] the random sourcelassy dealer

[18:16] came into being

[18:18] these

[18:21] people were problematic from the

[18:23] very beginning they even

[18:25] though they were licensed by the

[18:27] United States Department of

[18:29] Agriculture and they were

[18:30] regulated and subject to

[18:30] enforcement

[18:35] and they were chronic compliance

[18:39] problems for USDA they had a

[18:41] lot of animal welfare violations

[18:43] of the federal animalimal

[18:45] welfare Act which the USDA is

[18:46] charged with enforcing

[18:48] and they

[18:52] caused a lot of problems so much

[18:53] so that there was a

[18:57] great amount of public outcry

[18:58] against the practice and

[19:02] the national institute of Health

[19:05] at the request of Congress asked

[19:07] the national academies of

[19:09] Sciences to conduct a study and

[19:10] talk about do we really need

[19:14] these random source animals are

[19:15] they really significantly

[19:17] valuable to the research

[19:20] community and as you can see

[19:20] from the dates

[19:27] from2009 when the study began on

[19:29] this topic through2023 we

[19:33] went from not providing NIH

[19:34] grant funding for people who use

[19:37] random source animals all the

[19:37] way to permanently preventing

[19:41] the USDA from issuing

[19:43] licenses to this kind of dealer.

[19:46] so there are not currently any

[19:48] class random source class B

[19:48] dealers at this time

[19:50] there was

[19:54] a very infamous lapy dealer

[19:57] in Oklahoma that was one of the

[19:59] last to lose his license and his

[20:02] name was henry Lee Cooper he

[20:04] operated C andC kennels out of

[20:04] Waoka

[20:09] he was a problematic fellow he

[20:15] had several enforcement actions

[20:19] against him by the USDA in2007

[20:21] USDA filed an official complaint

[20:22] against him

[20:24] and I want to be precise about

[20:25] this so I'll read what that

[20:29] animal welfare actct violation

[20:31] was within the USDA complaint

[20:35] and they found that he had at

[20:37] his kennel dogs in danger of

[20:39] injury from structurally unsound

[20:41] cages inadequate pest

[20:43] prevention, dirty water

[20:45] containers, failure to maintain

[20:46] an adequate veterinary care

[20:48] program dogs in needed of

[20:48] veterinary care

[20:51] keeping of unidentified animals

[20:54] animals acquired from

[20:57] unidentified sources excess

[20:59] animal waste in cages, dogs kept

[21:02] without access to shelter and he

[21:04] was cited for creating false

[21:04] acquisition records

[21:07] so

[21:11] you can see and he he was one of

[21:14] many that that had these types

[21:17] of problems in2008 they

[21:20] suspended his license and

[21:20] then

[21:23] they got rid of the po the

[21:24] random source altogether

[21:35] So pound seizure in the US as

[21:36] we stand now

[21:40] we have 18 states that have laws

[21:40] that ban it outright

[21:45] and we have other states that

[21:46] allow it but don't require it

[21:49] and there's still may be

[21:51] ordinances that ban the practice

[21:53] in certain municipalities and

[21:56] then as you'll see on the map

[21:58] some states don't weigh in on

[21:58] the the issue at all

[22:00] so

[22:04] the light blue states are the

[22:07] ones that have banned it the

[22:09] darkk green still allow it and

[22:13] but don't mandate it and then of

[22:14] course Oklahoma there in the

[22:15] middle it's still required

[22:22] OK oh all right

[22:28] so pound seizure in Oklahoma did

[22:29] did everybody get a chance to

[22:30] look at the map and

[22:31] yeah

[22:35] I don't know why I'm looking

[22:37] behind me I have this very good

[22:38] ok so there's the map

[22:41] and again the light blue

[22:45] are the states that have banned

[22:47] the practice of pan seizure

[22:49] altogether. The green states

[22:53] allow it but don't mandate it

[22:57] and then the remaining state

[22:59] that still requires it or

[23:01] mandates it is Oklahoma

[23:09] OK and so a little bit of the

[23:09] history of pound seizure in

[23:11] Oklahoma our statute was passed

[23:12] in 1951

[23:15] and

[23:18] it requires that the shelter

[23:19] must provide unclaimed

[23:20] pets

[23:24] if if a research institution or

[23:29] a hotel biology supply

[23:30] concern wants the animals

[23:35] it stipulates that dogs must

[23:36] be held at least 15 days without

[23:37] a license and 30 days with a

[23:40] license. I would note that there

[23:40] are quite a few

[23:43] animal shelters in Oklahoma that

[23:44] don't

[23:47] do licensing of their pets

[23:49] within their municipality so

[23:53] waiting an extra 1f days for

[23:55] a dog with a license you

[23:57] probably wouldn't run into that

[23:59] too often. there's no

[23:59] specified holding period for

[24:00] cats

[24:05] fortunately in 1997 the law

[24:07] was amended to allow

[24:09] municipalities to opt out and

[24:11] not participate in this demand

[24:12] requirement

[24:15] and and several have

[24:18] it's interesting I

[24:23] I started working at the capitol

[24:26] on animal issues in2005.

[24:29] and I'm monitoring

[24:31] legislation2008 comes along

[24:35] and I see a bill and it is

[24:38] trying to expand our already

[24:38] kind of archaic

[24:41] pound seizure statute and I'm

[24:43] thinking what is that about what

[24:45] who's doing that who's

[24:45] requesting that bill

[24:48] and so I did a little research

[24:50] and found out that the

[24:51] individual requesting the bill

[24:53] was from out of state.

[24:56] He was from California. he was a

[24:56] man named Michael Sergent

[24:59] of Sergent's wholesal

[25:03] Biologicals and he had just

[25:07] gotten in trouble in Tulare

[25:09] County, California for bribing

[25:10] animal shelter employees to

[25:11] conduct

[25:15] mesh euthanasias so that he

[25:16] would have more carcasses to

[25:17] sell for his biological supply

[25:19] company. He

[25:22] it was widely covered in the

[25:22] press

[25:28] he let me just say there were

[25:28] also two

[25:32] toulare County animal control

[25:33] employees who were also charged

[25:36] with multiple felony counts

[25:38] related to embezzlement, bribery

[25:40] and animal cruelty so

[25:45] this was a serious problem I

[25:47] certainly was concerned about

[25:48] his plan to move his business to

[25:48] Oklahoma

[25:50] so we

[25:55] worked on meeting with all of

[25:57] the members of the house Public

[25:58] Health Committee at the time

[26:01] visited with everyone talked

[26:02] about the very

[26:05] important role that community

[26:06] animal shelters play

[26:07] for the citizens

[26:12] I mean that the it's critical

[26:13] that citizens have confidence

[26:17] in the true mission of an animal

[26:20] shelter and that they are not

[26:21] calling and when you're dealing

[26:23] dogs out the back whether you're

[26:24] being required to or whether

[26:27] you're making these deals like

[26:28] Michael Sergent did in in

[26:28] California

[26:31] it calls into question what is

[26:33] the true mission of the shelter?

[26:35] are you really concerned about

[26:38] rehoming animals and being

[26:39] conscientious about that or are

[26:42] you dealing dogs out the back

[26:42] door as a cheap source of supply

[26:45] for research and

[26:47] pharmaceutical companies. So

[26:53] we defeated that bill the

[26:53] public health committee members

[26:57] really understood the the

[26:59] conflict and the problem and the

[27:01] betrayal of public trust and so

[27:02] we defeated the bill in2008

[27:07] it came back in2009 and this

[27:11] version actually expanded

[27:11] what they wanted to do and they

[27:12] wanted to

[27:19] make criminal penalties for

[27:21] animal shelter employees that

[27:22] would not hand over or refuse to

[27:27] hand over the animals. So we

[27:28] talked to the committee members

[27:29] again we

[27:33] they've got the message and

[27:35] we defeated it for a second year

[27:36] in a row fortunately

[27:39] so that's how I got to know

[27:40] aboutmisergent

[27:44] the the infamousmi Sargent and

[27:44] henry Lee Cooper.

[27:52] Well I would say in in terms of

[27:57] you know a lot has happened

[27:59] since the 1940s and1950s and are

[28:01] not the least of which is

[28:04] advances in the way research is

[28:06] conducted as it turns out

[28:07] animals are not a perfect

[28:11] candidate to to

[28:15] end up with human relevant

[28:16] results when you're looking at

[28:18] the efficacy of a medicine or

[28:19] what are the harmful side

[28:21] effects there are lots of

[28:23] techniques and advances now that

[28:25] can be used that are more

[28:26] specifically related to the

[28:27] human body

[28:29] and so that that has

[28:34] changed quite a bit

[28:37] our federal agencies are also

[28:40] moving away from animal testing

[28:45] the EPA wants to has has set as

[28:46] a goal ending

[28:50] mammalian animal testing by2035

[28:52] and it's updated its list of

[28:53] nonanimal methods for use by

[28:56] companies and streamline the

[28:58] process for allowing companies

[28:59] that are trying to bring a

[29:01] product to market to submit new

[29:03] alternative methods for

[29:04] consideration

[29:06] fdaA

[29:09] their goal is to phase out

[29:10] certain animal tests in the next

[29:13] 3 to5 years and of course NIH

[29:15] they are the ones that push to

[29:16] get rid of the random sourcelapy

[29:17] dealer because they were so

[29:19] problematic and they have now

[29:24] created an office that

[29:25] prioritizes what are called

[29:28] human relevant methods meaning

[29:30] methods that are more

[29:30] specifically

[29:35] adaptable to human beings rather

[29:37] than testing safe on on dogs and

[29:39] then not really being safer

[29:40] human beings

[29:43] And I will say too

[29:48] in terms of the educational use

[29:48] of of animals that are

[29:53] were purchased from shelters or

[29:55] demanded from shelters our

[29:55] veterinary school

[29:57] used to conduct

[30:01] perm what are called terminal

[30:03] surgeries and they would use

[30:05] animals that were purchased from

[30:07] Class B dealers and that was

[30:08] kind of an old way of doing

[30:10] things and then the animals were

[30:11] killed at the end of the

[30:13] instruction and through

[30:18] a lot of student advocacy public

[30:21] pressure donor pressure and

[30:23] they made the change in fact

[30:24] they made the change from

[30:27] terminal surgeries to

[30:27] beneficial surgeries

[30:34] in2009 and they have a wonderful

[30:37] beneficial surgery rotation

[30:39] that they provide for their

[30:40] students who can go to their

[30:43] website and look at it but I I

[30:44] was just very impressed. I

[30:45] remember when all of that was

[30:46] happening I went to several of

[30:47] those meetings

[30:49] and they are helping

[30:54] over 3000 shelter animals each

[30:56] year through their beneficial

[30:59] sur surgical rotation they are

[31:00] learning how to anesthetize they

[31:00] are spaying and neutering

[31:04] they are learning pain

[31:06] management they are

[31:09] practicing dental procedures on

[31:10] these animals and they are

[31:11] making these animals more

[31:13] adaptable and they're learning

[31:15] concurrently so it's it's a real

[31:17] win win'm very proud of our vet

[31:18] school for doing that

[31:26] So where do we go from here?

[31:27] Well

[31:31] I personally would love to see

[31:33] Oklahoma repeal the statute in

[31:36] its entirety and make sure that

[31:37] the door is shut on any future

[31:40] activity like this

[31:44] there are still practices that

[31:45] she you know that can benefit

[31:47] animals that would be able to

[31:49] continue even if we repeal the

[31:50] statute

[31:53] and just as I mentioned with the

[31:54] OSU the school of eterinary

[31:56] medicine Spain needer programs

[31:57] that help the shelter and they

[31:58] help the students learn

[32:03] and I hope that we will join the

[32:05] other states that have banned

[32:06] the practice and

[32:10] that would be a wonderful thing

[32:10] to celebrate for Oklahoma

[32:15] and that is the end of my

[32:17] presentation. thank you for your

[32:18] attention

[32:23] thank you so much Miss Armstrong

[32:24] are there any questions from

[32:25] committee members

[32:29] if not

[32:33] if not we'll continue with

[32:37] our our next presenter we have

[32:39] Miss Tinaunter. she's a general

[32:41] counsel director for Oklahoma

[32:43] department of agriculture, Food

[32:44] and forestry.

[32:51] good afternoon appreciate

[32:53] y'all having me here. The

[32:55] Miss Armstrong went over what

[32:56] the law does. I'm going to give

[32:57] you our experience of it

[33:01] we have0 experience of it the

[33:03] program was transferred from the

[33:04] department of healthalth to the

[33:05] department of agriculture

[33:08] in2012. That law specified that

[33:09] the Department of Health would

[33:12] provide us their records. there

[33:13] were no records. I don't think

[33:15] they had anyone licensed under

[33:17] this at that time and we have

[33:19] never even had an inquiry until

[33:21] the interim study came up about

[33:23] anything of our dealing with on

[33:27] that on on that law so we've

[33:28] never had a license issued

[33:29] by the department of agriculture

[33:31] on this matter and we don't have

[33:35] in in most people's collective

[33:36] memory we don't even have hardly

[33:37] any memory of it. they don't

[33:39] they they barely realize it's a

[33:41] law that we have within our

[33:43] purview we've never had an

[33:45] application and we don't even

[33:46] have an application form if

[33:49] someone wanted to do this we'd

[33:50] have to make it up at that point

[33:54] to to license them so so it's

[33:55] kind of an interesting program

[33:57] that we just and my

[33:59] understanding is when it came

[34:00] over to us I was kind of told

[34:02] that

[34:07] nobody does it anymore so and

[34:08] and that's why that we didn't

[34:09] receive any records or anything

[34:10] like that that people just

[34:11] weren't were no longer had the

[34:13] will to do that the pound

[34:15] seizure as as a part of their as

[34:16] a part of their work so

[34:19] so that's kind of in a nutshell

[34:21] the department of gs experience

[34:22] with it and happy to answer

[34:22] questions

[34:27] thank you that was to the point.

[34:29] are there any questions with

[34:30] relation? yes Senator Goodwin

[34:35] I'm just curious how did it get

[34:37] into your purview because we're

[34:39] talking about animals and I see

[34:42] food forestry and agriculture so

[34:43] I'm just a little I can see

[34:45] cattle but I'm just wondering

[34:47] how that got into your purview

[34:49] our our state veterinarian is

[34:51] responsible for all animal

[34:53] health in the state so we we we

[34:55] have several programs that deal

[34:57] with these kinds of animals and

[35:00] for example we have the pet

[35:02] shelter and dog breeding

[35:02] program within our agency

[35:06] that we we license facilities

[35:07] and and inspect and regulate

[35:08] those.

[35:11] thank you and if you don't mind

[35:13] I do have a couple of questions

[35:14] if you know of any local

[35:16] ordinances that prevent pound

[35:17] seizure in Oklahoma. are you

[35:19] aware of any? I don't know of

[35:21] any specifically but my I've

[35:23] heard that the larger cities

[35:24] especially like Oklahoma City

[35:26] and Tulsa don't do not allow it

[35:27] and it's been a part of theirs

[35:29] but it's not something that I

[35:31] have I didn't need to look it up

[35:34] there was no one asking so I

[35:36] understand and my second

[35:37] question if you can describe the

[35:38] benefits of a statewide ban on

[35:39] pound seizure

[35:42] over local officials needing to

[35:43] deal with this issue in their

[35:44] local municipality.

[35:47] well and you know I've only

[35:51] anecdotally would be saying that

[35:52] that you know generally the

[35:54] public doesn't like this idea so

[35:57] so you you if if that

[35:58] continued then and people got

[36:00] wind of it or somebody came to

[36:03] us for a license then I can

[36:04] anticipate that there would

[36:04] probably be quite the outcry

[36:05] over it

[36:08] all right are there any other

[36:09] questions from any committee

[36:13] membersunter thank you for being

[36:14] here thank you for your service

[36:16] to the state of Oklahoma my

[36:19] question would be and I I

[36:19] might should have asked this

[36:21] earlier and if you don't have

[36:23] the answer to it and my

[36:25] apologies but

[36:28] the the the laboratories that

[36:31] are acquiring these animals

[36:33] under pound seizure are they

[36:35] buying these animals or are they

[36:36] just taking them?

[36:41] the educate the they have to

[36:43] have the license and so there

[36:45] would presumably be a fee for us

[36:47] under that but I don't see any

[36:49] indication one way or the other

[36:51] in this law that tells them they

[36:53] have to pay for those animals or

[36:55] that they have to or or that

[36:57] they have to provide some

[37:00] kind of a a fee or purchase

[37:01] it's not it's certainly not

[37:03] spelled out in in the statute at

[37:04] this time

[37:11] OK thank you so much M Gunter

[37:13] for your presentation. next we

[37:15] will hear from Miss

[37:17] Sherrieerrier and she's a

[37:18] director of Tulsa Animal

[37:19] Services and she may be able to

[37:21] answer that question that you

[37:23] just asked Mr Chair and she'll

[37:24] be talking about pound seizure

[37:26] and its effect on urban

[37:28] municipal animal shelters thank

[37:29] you for being here thank you for

[37:32] having me also brought our

[37:35] deputy director Mr Colton Jones

[37:37] I think it's important to

[37:37] always have our team because it

[37:38] take

[37:39] s a team to take care of

[37:40] community animals here in

[37:40] Oklahoma

[37:44] if you

[37:47] ever looked up the word pound

[37:49] which I really hadn't thought

[37:50] about it too much

[37:53] this comes from an old

[37:54] agricultural community

[37:58] where towns use fence enclosure

[38:00] called pinfolds or pounds to

[38:02] hold loose stray farm livestock

[38:03] livestock until owners claim

[38:04] them.

[38:07] Colton would know more about

[38:09] that than me because he grew up

[38:11] on a farm and I did not but

[38:12] that's the history of the word

[38:16] the a story a lady came into our

[38:21] shelter facility a few months

[38:22] back her name was Catherine

[38:23] I could tell she was an older

[38:24] lady

[38:27] She came in to ask for some

[38:29] assistance with some kittens and

[38:30] we became close

[38:33] but when she came in she asked

[38:34] for the pound master

[38:35] and

[38:37] my team members came in to tell

[38:39] me there's a lady here to see

[38:41] the pound master and I said, you

[38:43] know, I don't know what you're

[38:45] talking about. no she's here

[38:46] to see the pound master.

[38:48] So I went out and she said are

[38:49] you the pound master?

[38:52] I said my name's sherrie. I'm

[38:53] the director of this facility.

[38:55] So we became close we helped her

[38:58] with her her kitten issues

[38:59] several times I saw her. it

[39:01] was like we bonded and she told

[39:03] me a story that she was actually

[39:05] the first female that worked at

[39:06] the Tulsa animalimal pound

[39:10] obviously that was several years

[39:12] years ago and I assumed this

[39:13] lady was probably in her

[39:15] eightiess but it was a a bond

[39:17] and a connection that I won't

[39:19] ever forget and definitely my

[39:21] team won't ever forget that she

[39:22] asked for the poundmaster

[39:26] and just as this law is really

[39:27] obsolete

[39:30] just like those words are. you

[39:31] know the pound and the pound

[39:32] master no longer exists

[39:37] we're here to help animals.

[39:38] We're here to protect them from

[39:41] harm. we're not here to support

[39:42] a law where somebody can come in

[39:44] and request animals to be used

[39:46] for research purposes for

[39:46] testing

[39:51] we've not gotten any requests.

[39:53] Colton and I have been at the

[39:54] facility now

[39:57] for about four years and we

[39:58] have not gotten any requests

[40:01] but as I said we're working

[40:03] to protect animals not to harm

[40:04] them.

[40:07] we have the place of last resort

[40:09] for our community animals and it

[40:11] takes a lot of people to take

[40:13] care of them so we do the best

[40:14] of our ability to do that

[40:15] and in saying that

[40:17] you know we could have had a

[40:20] pound many many years ago that

[40:20] became a shelter

[40:23] and now we have a new name and

[40:25] we've included services in our

[40:26] name

[40:28] and waiting on a brand new

[40:30] facility hopefully by the end of

[40:31] this year or the first of next

[40:34] year to do even more services to

[40:35] help and protect these animals

[40:38] so as a director of a city

[40:39] municipal animal facility

[40:43] it's imperative that we have

[40:44] public trust that was mentioned

[40:44] before.

[40:48] this adds to our opportunities

[40:50] for success and it's been proven

[40:50] in Tulsa

[40:54] as we went, you know,3.5 to4

[40:57] years ago with a66% live release

[40:58] rate to now trending almost 83%.

[41:02] we're not where we want to be

[41:04] yet but we're getting there and

[41:05] that's because of public trust

[41:07] and all of the efforts of our

[41:09] team members and our volunteers

[41:10] and our community in Tulsa

[41:17] Public trust is compromised

[41:18] having a mandatory pound seizure

[41:19] law and it's hanging over our

[41:20] head.

[41:23] this is why it Tulsa at some

[41:24] point

[41:25] before coton and I were there

[41:29] there was something put in our

[41:31] city ordinance. but on 914 we're

[41:32] going to go before the Tulsa

[41:34] Animal welfare Commission. we're

[41:35] gonna to review this ordinance

[41:37] and we're gonna see if we need

[41:39] to strengthen that language

[41:42] update it so that it

[41:42] represents our current

[41:43] department.

[41:49] once we get approval to move

[41:51] forward from the animal

[41:52] welfaremission if we need to do

[41:54] so we'll approach the mayor and

[41:56] the city council to strengthen

[41:59] that law if we need to do it.

[42:00] and that will be coming up like

[42:00] I said 914.

[42:03] and I'm happy to answer any

[42:04] questions if you have any.

[42:11] are there any questions from

[42:12] other committee members

[42:16] carrier thank you for being here

[42:18] and my only question is

[42:20] the the one that I asked of

[42:21] the previous presenter

[42:25] under this law are the

[42:28] animals being if anybody knows

[42:30] are the animals being purchased

[42:32] or are they being requisitioned.

[42:34] I couldn't tell you thatir we

[42:35] haven't had a single request

[42:38] since we've been there. if it

[42:39] happened before I have no

[42:40] knowledge of

[42:43] Thank you very much appreciate

[42:44] y'all.

[42:49] thank you so much.ppreciate you.

[42:50] 01 more I'm sorry

[42:53] kind of follow up on chairman's

[42:55] question this may go to Miss

[42:57] Armstrong whoever

[43:00] on the out of state laboratories

[43:02] requesting these animals how

[43:03] many is that? do we have any

[43:06] knowledge of how many animals

[43:09] are being transported across

[43:11] state lines we we don't have

[43:11] knowledge we we've had no

[43:12] request

[43:23] So I can give you a snapshot in

[43:27] time for the random sourcelass B

[43:28] dealer henry Lee Cooper that

[43:30] operated in Oklahoma let me grab

[43:31] that

[43:31] so

[43:37] in the time that he was had a

[43:38] random source class B dealer

[43:41] license

[43:45] it looks like

[43:51] he

[43:58] Think with the between the years

[43:59] oh here we go

[44:02] yeah I think he

[44:09] between the years2006 and2007

[44:10] invoices indicated that

[44:11] he had

[44:19] sold2,395 animals from2004

[44:20] to2006.

[44:24] earning280,000 dollars over that

[44:25] period of time

[44:29] I didn't mention this in my

[44:30] presentation but I'll mention it

[44:30] now

[44:35] as as pound seizure grew and the

[44:37] public were rejecting the idea

[44:40] Life magazine I don't know

[44:41] how many of you remember Life

[44:44] magazine growing up but it was a

[44:46] big deal they had some

[44:46] investigative journalism

[44:50] and we're finding that the

[44:51] random sourcelassy dealers

[44:53] weren't just demanding unclaimed

[44:56] pets from animal shelters but

[44:58] they were also stealing them out

[44:59] of people's backyards it was

[45:00] lucrative and

[45:01] it just

[45:05] that was happening and so of

[45:06] course that added fuel to the

[45:06] fire

[45:09] you

[45:17] all right we also have joining

[45:19] us virtually

[45:23] Miss Lindsey Soist and she's

[45:24] giving us the national

[45:25] perspective regarding animal

[45:26] research and random source

[45:28] testing and she may be able to

[45:30] give us some insight on the the

[45:31] question that was just raised as

[45:33] well. Thank you Miss Lindsay we

[45:34] appreciate you being here

[45:36] thank you so much senatorice.

[45:39] I am

[45:43] going to share my screen if you

[45:44] guys OK perfect

[45:49] chairhamilton senator nice

[45:51] members of the committee thank

[45:52] you for the opportunity to speak

[45:53] today as part of this interim

[45:56] study on Oklahoma's mandatory

[45:57] pound seizure law. I am Lindseay

[45:59] Sois, head of programs atrise

[46:01] for Animals and national

[46:03] nonprofit organization seeking

[46:05] to end animal experimentation in

[46:06] our lifetime.

[46:08] I've been asked to bring the

[46:10] national perspective to this

[46:12] conversation. how animal

[46:13] research and random source

[46:15] animal procurement are

[46:17] positioned today where federal

[46:19] law and policy are moving and

[46:21] how Oklahoma s sets relative to

[46:22] the rest of the country.

[46:25] the vast majority of modern

[46:27] animal research doesn't involve

[46:28] dogs and cats at all

[46:31] In USDA's fiscal year2025

[46:34] reporting dogs and cats together

[46:37] accounted for less than 3% of

[46:39] all reported animals and

[46:40] reported animals are themselves

[46:42] a fraction of the total because

[46:43] most of the animals used in

[46:45] laboratories aren't subject to

[46:47] regulation and therefore are not

[46:48] subject to reporting

[46:52] Most of the dogs and cats used

[46:54] in experiments today are what

[46:55] industry calls purpose bread

[46:57] meaning their bread specifically

[46:59] for research by USDA

[47:02] licensedlass A breeders and

[47:04] dealers or raised in dedicated

[47:06] research colonies. a much

[47:09] smaller similarly unquantifiable

[47:11] portion or what industry calls

[47:13] random source animals. dogs and

[47:15] cats not bred for research but

[47:16] drawn from the general

[47:18] population. they arrive in labs

[47:19] primarily through

[47:21] federally licensed classy

[47:23] dealers who acquire animals from

[47:25] various sources including pounds

[47:27] and shelters and sell them to

[47:29] research facilities through the

[47:30] practice before you today pound

[47:31] seizure

[47:35] modern numbers are sparse if not

[47:37] outright nonexistent. USDA and

[47:39] NIH don't track or report on

[47:41] animal acquisition sources

[47:43] meaning that the figures we have

[47:44] stem from one off studies or

[47:45] reports

[47:47] we're not aware of a current

[47:49] breakdown approximating how many

[47:53] of the41,000 plus dogs and

[47:57] 12,500 plus cats reported by US

[47:58] labs last year likely originated

[48:01] in shelters or pounds but data

[48:03] from years past can provide some

[48:05] context. A comprehensive review

[48:07] of the question commissioned by

[48:10] NIH and published in2009 found

[48:12] random source dog and cat use to

[48:15] be small and declining even then

[48:16] with Classy dealers

[48:19] accounting for about4% of dogs

[48:21] and a little over 1% of cats

[48:23] used in research between2008 and

[48:26] sorry2007 and2008.

[48:31] even without contemporary

[48:33] findings the overall trend

[48:35] points clearly in one direction

[48:37] dog and cat use has been falling

[48:39] for years and that decline has

[48:41] been pronounced even over the

[48:44] last decadetween2014 and2025

[48:46] reported dog and cat use

[48:49] declined by over40% and we can

[48:50] expect random sourcing to have

[48:51] fallen at least as steeply

[48:55] Critically these declines are

[48:56] attributable to deliberate

[48:59] choices by Congress, by federal

[49:01] agencies and by research

[49:02] institutions themselves.

[49:05] one of the most important

[49:07] federal developments concerns

[49:08] the Class B dealers who

[49:10] historically moved shelter

[49:10] animals into laboratories.

[49:14] Oklahoma has a direct connection

[49:16] to that story and in fact local

[49:18] Oklahoma activity heavily

[49:18] influenced federal activity.

[49:22] In2003, a black hound dog named

[49:24] Buck was seized in Oklahoma from

[49:27] alass B dealer. he had heartworm

[49:28] disease and other untreated

[49:29] ailments and he died of internal

[49:31] hemorrhaging months later while

[49:32] in foster care

[49:35] Buck's case became a rallying

[49:37] point in the congressional

[49:39] debate overlass B dealer reform.

[49:41] so much so that advocates and

[49:43] sponsors began calling the

[49:44] federal pet safety and

[49:46] Protection Act which sought to

[49:49] barlassy dealers from selling

[49:50] random source dogs and cats to

[49:50] labsox bill

[49:55] Congress ultimately took action

[49:56] though through the

[49:57] appropriations process.ginning

[50:00] in fiscal year2016 Congress

[50:02] attached an annual rider to the

[50:03] agricultural appropriations bill

[50:06] barring USDA from spending funds

[50:09] to license or relicenselassy

[50:10] dealers who sell dogs and cats

[50:10] for research.

[50:14] after years of need renewals to

[50:15] stay in effect, Congress made it

[50:18] permanent in December2022.

[50:21] Section733 of the consolidated

[50:23] appropriations Act of2023

[50:25] provides that in that fiscal

[50:27] year and thereafter and

[50:29] notwithstanding any other

[50:31] provision of law, no funds may

[50:33] be used to issue or renew animal

[50:35] welfare actct licenses tolass B

[50:36] dealers who sell dogs or cats

[50:37] for research.

[50:39] experimentation

[50:40] testing

[50:41] or teaching

[50:45] that language conveys a

[50:47] permanent standing law one that

[50:48] no longer requires requires

[50:49] annual renewal

[50:52] Congress didn't reach that

[50:55] conclusion isolation NIH the

[50:56] world's largest funder of

[50:58] biomedical research had already

[50:59] barred its extramural grant

[51:01] funds from being used to acquire

[51:03] cats fromlass B dealers

[51:05] beginning in October of2012 and

[51:06] dogs beginning in October2014.

[51:11] Congress'lab funding prohibition

[51:13] sits within a much broader

[51:15] federal shift, one that has

[51:16] accelerated sharply over the

[51:16] past two years

[51:21] In April of2025, FDA announced

[51:23] it would begin phasing out

[51:24] mandatory animal testing

[51:26] requirements for certain new

[51:27] drug applications starting with

[51:30] monoclonal antibody therapies

[51:31] that built on the FDA

[51:34] modernization Act2.0 of2022

[51:36] which repealed a many decades

[51:38] old requirement that new drugs

[51:41] be tested on animals. it's

[51:42] successor the FdaA modernization

[51:45] Act 3.0 passed the US house this

[51:47] July after the senate passed

[51:48] identical language with

[51:50] dissent in december in both

[51:51] chambers it drew essentially no

[51:52] opposition

[51:57] also in april2025 NIH announced

[51:59] an initiative to reduce animal

[52:01] use in NIHf funded research and

[52:03] prioritize human based models

[52:05] citing both advances in

[52:07] technology and failures of

[52:09] animal data to predict human

[52:11] outcomes. NIH established a new

[52:13] office to develop and validate

[52:16] nonanimal methods committed $150

[52:17] million to humanbased approaches

[52:20] and has said it will no longer

[52:22] issue new funding opportunities

[52:22] focused exclusively on

[52:24] animal models of human disease

[52:29] In November of2025, the Centers

[52:30] for Disease Control and

[52:32] Prevention phased out all of its

[52:34] nonhuman primate research and is

[52:35] seeking to send the survivors to

[52:36] sanctuary.

[52:38] and the environmental protection

[52:39] agency has committed to

[52:41] eliminating mammalian animal

[52:45] testing by2035. It expanded its

[52:47] list of approved nonanimal test

[52:49] methods this past June and just

[52:51] last month announced two further

[52:53] advances that let reviewers

[52:55] assess inhalation and oral risks

[52:57] using human tissue models and

[52:59] calculations rather than new

[53:00] animal studies.

[53:04] Alongside that general shift,

[53:06] federal lawmakers have turned

[53:08] specifically to dogs and cats

[53:10] and notably they have done it

[53:13] across party lines. This June

[53:14] the US house passed two

[53:15] amendments to the fiscal

[53:17] year2027 agriculture FdaA

[53:19] appropriations bill one

[53:22] prohibiting funding for painful

[53:23] experiments on dogs and cats.

[53:26] The otherboring taxpayer dollars

[53:27] from being used to require dog

[53:28] testing through FDA.

[53:32] Other pending2027 bills carry

[53:34] the same direction of travel.

[53:35] The house appropriations

[53:38] subcommittee advanced its NIH

[53:40] bill with language defunding dog

[53:40] and cat testing

[53:43] and the EPA bill cuts funding

[53:44] for dog testing

[53:47] the veterans affairs bill

[53:48] approved unanimously in

[53:50] committee would require the VA

[53:52] to justify to Congress any

[53:53] research involving dogs, cats or

[53:54] primates.

[53:57] Individual legislators have gone

[54:00] further. Representative Nancy

[54:01] Mace has introduced the

[54:02] preventing animal abuse and

[54:05] waste actct barring NIH from

[54:07] conducting or funding research

[54:09] that causes significant pain or

[54:10] distress to dogs and cats

[54:12] andpresentative Nick Langworthy

[54:13] has voiced his intent to

[54:15] introduce legislation banning

[54:17] taxpayerfundded breeding of dogs

[54:18] for laboratory research.

[54:23] what's driving this isn't only

[54:24] science though there is a

[54:25] growing acknowledgement that

[54:27] nonhuman animals cannot act as

[54:29] predictive standins for humans

[54:32] it's also a broadening judgment

[54:33] across the political spectrum

[54:35] that experimenting on animals

[54:37] raises complex ethical issues.

[54:39] Gallup has asked Americans the

[54:41] same question every year

[54:43] since2001.hether medical testing

[54:45] on animals is morally

[54:48] acceptable. In200165% said it

[54:48] was.

[54:53] this may only45% did the lowest

[54:55] figure Gallup has recorded in25

[54:56] years of asking the question

[54:59] and that shift has not come from

[55:00] one side of the aisle

[55:03] of the issuesallup tracks animal

[55:05] testing is among the closest

[55:07] points of agreement betweenubs

[55:09] and Democrats. In recent

[55:11] yearsuban acceptance has fallen

[55:13] faster than democratic

[55:15] acceptance closing what used to

[55:16] be a wide gap

[55:20] and in factubs are currently

[55:21] leading reform efforts.

[55:23] Representative Mace has stated

[55:25] that dogs and cats aren't tools

[55:27] for research but rather our

[55:29] companions and our family

[55:31] Representative nicole melitaki

[55:33] has said that companion animals

[55:35] are members of our families and

[55:36] that taxpayers shouldn't be

[55:37] forced to pay for

[55:39] experimentation on them.

[55:41] SenatorRandd Paul has condemned

[55:43] dog experimentation as

[55:44] unnecessary and torturous.

[55:46] Representative Langworthy has

[55:46] characterized the killing

[55:50] of healthy dogs for science as

[55:52] barbaric, cruel and unnecessary.

[55:55] Senator Joni Ernst has said that

[55:57] dog testing has no place in our

[55:58] government, much less on the

[55:58] taxpayer's dime.

[56:01] Opposition to animal

[56:03] experimentation now also extends

[56:05] into the federal agencies

[56:06] themselves. former FdaA

[56:07] commissioner doctorctor Marty

[56:09] Mcerry at a federal workshop on

[56:11] reducing animal testing gave

[56:13] three reasons to move to

[56:15] nonanimal methods faster cures,

[56:19] lower costs and most importantly

[56:20] in his framing that they are

[56:21] more humane and ethical.

[56:25] for a long time the answer to

[56:26] these types of objections

[56:27] without that there is no other

[56:29] way that however troubling the

[56:30] practice science required it

[56:33] that assertion is becoming less

[56:35] and less colorable as

[56:36] alternatives to animal research

[56:37] gain traction.

[56:40] methods drawing federal

[56:42] investment are now increasingly

[56:44] human based organoids grown from

[56:47] human cells organ on the chip

[56:49] systems that reprodu reproduce

[56:51] human tissue behavior and

[56:52] computational models that

[56:54] simulate human biology and drug

[56:56] response. NIH director Jay

[56:57] Bhattacharya has said these

[56:59] technologies have improved

[57:01] dramatically in recent years and

[57:03] that NIH intends to steer

[57:05] biomedical research in that

[57:07] direction. The agency's stated

[57:08] rationale is straightforward

[57:10] iff ence s between animals and

[57:12] humans limit how well animal

[57:12] data translate to humans.

[57:16] notably these methods are not

[57:18] being adopted as a concession to

[57:20] animal welfare but because they

[57:21] better serve the underlying

[57:22] purposes of the research itself.

[57:27] ga in s t this backdrop,

[57:29] Oklahoma finds itself as the

[57:31] only state in the country with a

[57:33] mandatory pound seizure law that

[57:35] contemplates companion dogs and

[57:36] cats being used as experimental

[57:37] subjects

[57:40] this means that Oklahoma isn't

[57:41] just a state that allows pound

[57:43] seizure. it's the last state

[57:45] whose law compels it and it has

[57:47] held the status since at

[57:51] least2010 when Utah until then

[57:52] one of the last states with a

[57:53] similar law repealed its own

[57:54] pound seizure mandate.

[57:57] Oklahoma has retained its

[57:59] mandatory pound seizure law even

[58:01] as its own flagship veterinary

[58:03] program abandoned dealer source

[58:05] dogs and terminal teaching labs

[58:06] years ago on its own initiative

[58:10] Oklahoma State University used

[58:11] to obtain dogs from dealers and

[58:12] kill them after students

[58:13] practice surgery on them

[58:17] In2010 it reversed coursestead

[58:19] of killing animals in teaching

[58:21] labs the university partnered

[58:22] with animal shelters. The

[58:24] shelters would supply animals on

[58:25] whom students would perform spay

[58:27] and neuter surgeries and then

[58:28] the animals would return to the

[58:30] shelters for adoption. The

[58:31] university's president called

[58:33] this transition a winwin one

[58:35] that gave students the training

[58:37] they needed addressed animal

[58:38] welfare concerns and served the

[58:38] local community

[58:44] Since2012 licensing under

[58:45] Oklahoma statute has been the

[58:47] responsibility of the Oklahoma

[58:49] department of agriculture and as

[58:51] we heard the department has not

[58:53] issued a single license under

[58:55] this law in the nearly four

[58:57] years since meaning that while

[58:59] Oklahoma bears the undesirable

[59:01] distinction of being the only

[59:02] state in the country to mandate

[59:05] the roundly condemned practice

[59:06] of pound seizure, there's no

[59:07] record of any Oklahoma

[59:08] institution using it.

[59:11] so this is where the national

[59:11] picture and Oklahoma meet

[59:16] nationwide laboratory use of

[59:18] dogs and cats has fallen more

[59:18] than40% in a decade.

[59:23] Congress has permanently

[59:25] defunded the dealer system that

[59:26] supplied shelter animals to

[59:26] laboratories

[59:31] federal agencies are moving

[59:32] toward humanbased ethical

[59:35] science and members of both

[59:36] political parties are working to

[59:37] strip funding from dog and cat

[59:38] experimentation specifically

[59:43] one of Oklahoma's own flagship

[59:45] institutions has voluntarily and

[59:46] successfully adhered to a model

[59:48] that partners with shelters to

[59:49] treat and send animals home

[59:53] and no Oklahoma research

[59:54] facility has been issued a

[59:55] license to engage and pound

[59:56] seizure in well over a decade.

[1:00:00] Every institution with a direct

[1:00:01] stake has moved away from

[1:00:02] sourcing animals this way

[1:00:05] the only thing that hasn't is a

[1:00:06] state statute itself

[1:00:09] thank you so much for your time

[1:00:10] and consideration.

[1:00:15] thank you so much. I know we

[1:00:17] have a couple of questions so I

[1:00:20] hope you can hear us can thank

[1:00:21] yousenator senatorhamilton

[1:00:26] thank you senatorice all allow I

[1:00:27] think Senator Goodwin has a

[1:00:28] question who will allow

[1:00:30] yes ma'am that's all right you

[1:00:31] go right ahead

[1:00:35] thank you thank you for your

[1:00:37] presentation and I absolutely

[1:00:41] understand are your

[1:00:43] concern as we are looking at

[1:00:45] some antiquated or archaic laws

[1:00:47] on the books I want to let you

[1:00:49] know that when you mention

[1:00:51] thatubs are leading the way I

[1:00:53] know theubs and Democrats are

[1:00:55] concerned about this issue. I'm

[1:00:57] particularly offended though

[1:00:59] when you use Nancy Mace as

[1:01:02] someone who talks about pets or

[1:01:02] family when she

[1:01:05] has made some very egregious

[1:01:07] statements in Congress as

[1:01:09] relates to Muslims as relates to

[1:01:11] Africanericans so I wanted to

[1:01:13] know as she sees pets as being

[1:01:15] family I hope that we'd all be

[1:01:16] able to understand that we're

[1:01:19] all family and and in America

[1:01:21] and I was just going to say that

[1:01:23] particular you outline that

[1:01:25] outlier for Nancy Ma and some

[1:01:27] others

[1:01:29] I just wouldn't agree with that

[1:01:31] using her as a a great example

[1:01:32] to talk about who was family

[1:01:38] apologies Senator Goodwin for

[1:01:39] any offense we were merely

[1:01:41] attempting to demonstrate that

[1:01:43] this is a bipartisan issue and

[1:01:45] these folks who we've

[1:01:47] highlighted have been outspoken

[1:01:48] on on this particular issue

[1:01:49] which it was my understanding is

[1:01:50] the subject of today's study

[1:01:57] thank you thank you mesopus for

[1:02:00] your presentation my question

[1:02:03] was regarding the and I

[1:02:05] forget the number of the slide

[1:02:07] but it was regarding the

[1:02:11] NIH to expand humanbased

[1:02:12] models and then a couple slides

[1:02:15] later you talk about the labrown

[1:02:17] organoids. I wonder if you could

[1:02:20] expand on the source of the

[1:02:21] human cells that we're using for

[1:02:22] the lab grown organoids please.

[1:02:25] yes

[1:02:29] Chairhamilton my understanding

[1:02:30] is that these cell lines are

[1:02:32] procured in different ways

[1:02:33] depending on the technology

[1:02:35] being used or the purveyor of

[1:02:36] the technology but there is a

[1:02:37] large discussion around ethical

[1:02:39] sourcing and many of these cells

[1:02:41] are procured from donors so

[1:02:43] human donors who are either

[1:02:45] providing theirs cells or coming

[1:02:47] from organ donations or other

[1:02:49] sources this is a very live

[1:02:51] conversation and I think that

[1:02:53] that is an important part of the

[1:02:54] discussion that's happening

[1:02:55] again intending to supplant our

[1:02:56] current system

[1:02:58] with an ethical one based on

[1:03:00] consent two items that are very

[1:03:01] live criticisms of the current

[1:03:02] animal research testing

[1:03:03] paradigm.

[1:03:10] OK Miss Lindsay thank you so

[1:03:11] much again for your presentation

[1:03:13] and if you don't mind sticking

[1:03:14] around just in case we have some

[1:03:17] more questions towards the end

[1:03:18] and we're nearing towards the

[1:03:19] end right now so thank you

[1:03:20] kindly. I appreciate you again

[1:03:21] for joining us virtually.

[1:03:23] Thank you Senatorice thank you

[1:03:24] for having us.

[1:03:29] and lastly we want to welcome

[1:03:31] back Miss Shannon Keith she's

[1:03:32] the president and founder of

[1:03:34] beagle Freedom Project and she's

[1:03:35] going to give us a case study,

[1:03:37] Freedom Fields and a solution to

[1:03:39] addressing the pound seizure

[1:03:40] that we are experiencing here in

[1:03:40] Oklahoma.

[1:03:45] thank you so much I'm back

[1:03:49] my Poweroint oh thank you so

[1:03:50] much

[1:03:52] awesome right

[1:03:57] I'm gonna just quickly breeze

[1:04:00] through a Poweroint many of

[1:04:01] the points that I make here were

[1:04:03] already made so I'll just sort

[1:04:05] of emphasize them and I'm going

[1:04:09] to end on a video that we made

[1:04:11] about our organization why we're

[1:04:13] here what we're doing here in

[1:04:16] Nowata, Oklahoma and about

[1:04:17] our beautiful pound seizure

[1:04:20] survivor Grace who is on our

[1:04:22] board over there who now lives

[1:04:23] in Nowada at Freedom Fields

[1:04:25] right

[1:04:32] ok as we've heard,

[1:04:33] the problem

[1:04:38] it's hard to read OK. Oklahoma

[1:04:39] law requires public animal

[1:04:41] shelters to surrender animals to

[1:04:43] licensed research facilities

[1:04:44] upon request.

[1:04:47] a practice known as mandatory

[1:04:49] pound seizure animals who enter

[1:04:51] shelters seeking adoption or

[1:04:52] possible reunion with their

[1:04:54] families may instead be

[1:04:56] transferred to laboratories for

[1:04:58] experimentation as we've heard

[1:05:01] before from my colleagues this

[1:05:02] policy undermines public trust

[1:05:04] in shelters discourages adoption

[1:05:05] and puts puts vulnerable animals

[1:05:06] at risk.

[1:05:10] Againba is the last state to

[1:05:11] mandate this practice

[1:05:12] unfortunately

[1:05:16] the mandatory transfer Oklahoma

[1:05:17] law currently requires shelters

[1:05:19] to surrender unclaimed animals

[1:05:21] to licensed research facilities

[1:05:24] upon request. so there's no

[1:05:25] right of refusal. shelters can't

[1:05:27] say no. The animals are at risk

[1:05:30] and there's a severe community

[1:05:31] impact familiesmilies who

[1:05:33] surrender pets expecting humane

[1:05:35] outcomes are misled.unities lose

[1:05:37] confidence in their local animal

[1:05:39] shelters and an adoption

[1:05:40] programs.

[1:05:43] you know there are people who

[1:05:45] for whatever reason can't keep

[1:05:47] their animals and being a rescue

[1:05:49] organization we've seen this

[1:05:51] time again, time and again

[1:05:53] there are circumstances

[1:05:55] sometimes out of people's

[1:05:56] control or they just simply

[1:05:58] cannot keep their family member

[1:06:00] sometimes people are very ill

[1:06:03] or they pass away and they have

[1:06:05] to unfortunately relinquish

[1:06:07] their beloved family member to a

[1:06:09] shelter and to think that

[1:06:13] that animal who is so beloved by

[1:06:15] somebody who had just passed

[1:06:17] away is now at risk for going to

[1:06:19] an animal testing laboratory is

[1:06:21] terrifying to think about

[1:06:26] Animal testing this is something

[1:06:28] that my organizationiggofreedom

[1:06:31] Project specializes in fighting

[1:06:32] against we've been doing this

[1:06:35] for fif years. The animals we

[1:06:36] rescue come from all types of

[1:06:38] animal testing facilities,

[1:06:41] private and public we've rescued

[1:06:43] not only dogs and cats but all

[1:06:44] types of animals from animal

[1:06:45] testing facilities including

[1:06:49] horses alpacas goats pigs

[1:06:51] rabbits many of whom live at

[1:06:52] Freedomfieldelds here in

[1:06:53] Oklahoma but in terms of

[1:06:57] of dogs and and cats

[1:07:01] they're routinely used for

[1:07:02] toxicology and cardiovascular

[1:07:05] testing and that's particularly

[1:07:09] sad because when they're used

[1:07:11] for those types of tests they're

[1:07:13] typically going to die so

[1:07:13] they're not going to get out of

[1:07:15] the shelter alive. they're not

[1:07:16] going to get out of the

[1:07:17] laboratory alive sorry so if

[1:07:19] somebody is is looking for their

[1:07:20] beloved animal they're never

[1:07:20] going to find them

[1:07:24] in Oklahoma

[1:07:29] there are only4 reported

[1:07:31] facilities that actually use

[1:07:35] dogs and cats for testing of

[1:07:35] the last reported which was

[1:07:39] in2024 there were only 365 dogs

[1:07:44] and 160 1s being used one of

[1:07:46] them however had a noncompliance

[1:07:47] for not administering

[1:07:49] appropriate pain medication to

[1:07:51] the dogs during the procedure

[1:07:53] and I thought that was really

[1:07:54] important to point out and you

[1:07:55] think about your dog

[1:07:56] you know

[1:07:59] being in a shelter getting lost,

[1:08:03] going to a laboratory then being

[1:08:05] tested on that's really horrible

[1:08:06] to think about

[1:08:09] not being given the proper pain

[1:08:10] medication undergoing a

[1:08:12] procedure and this comes from

[1:08:15] USDA inspection reports so I

[1:08:16] I just

[1:08:19] I think it's important to bring

[1:08:20] this home. I think most of us in

[1:08:22] this room probably have a dog or

[1:08:26] a cat and can't imagine a

[1:08:26] situation where they get lost

[1:08:29] they end up in a shelter and

[1:08:31] then they end up in an animal

[1:08:32] testing facility and this

[1:08:32] happens to them

[1:08:39] so about a year ago when I

[1:08:41] discovered that Oklahoma was the

[1:08:43] lone state here and mandating

[1:08:45] pound seizure myself and my team

[1:08:46] at beaglefreedom Project started

[1:08:48] doing a lot of research. We

[1:08:51] spent months doing research on

[1:08:53] the issue here in Oklahoma and

[1:08:55] so we sent out lots and lots of

[1:08:57] public records requests and

[1:09:01] making a lot of calls and so we

[1:09:02] contacted and sent out public

[1:09:04] records requests at 39

[1:09:09] municipal shelters across25

[1:09:10] counties in Oklahoma

[1:09:12] of all 39 shelters

[1:09:16] none of them participate in

[1:09:16] paesthesia

[1:09:20] and this was all evidence based

[1:09:22] on the responses that we got

[1:09:23] from the public records requests

[1:09:26] So here's a map

[1:09:30] the24 counties it was24

[1:09:32] counties24 counties confirmed to

[1:09:33] not participate in count seizure

[1:09:36] and that includes the five most

[1:09:37] populated counties

[1:09:40] and these are of all the ones

[1:09:41] that we contacted we didn't

[1:09:43] contact all of them but these

[1:09:44] are all the ones that we did

[1:09:45] contact so I think that's

[1:09:47] critical we spoke to

[1:09:48] everybody

[1:09:50] at these municipal shelters

[1:09:54] and these are all of them listed

[1:09:55] here the the counties and the

[1:09:56] shelters

[1:09:59] again

[1:10:00] including the five most

[1:10:00] populated

[1:10:04] and ashirrri was saying shelter

[1:10:05] workers want to help

[1:10:07] and protect animals in their

[1:10:08] care

[1:10:10] so when we spoke to them

[1:10:13] the overwhelming response was

[1:10:15] what

[1:10:16] this goes on here

[1:10:21] that's horrible. we would never

[1:10:22] do that

[1:10:26] so not only were the individual

[1:10:27] employees who we spoke with

[1:10:28] horrified

[1:10:31] some didn't even know this

[1:10:34] existed but they would never

[1:10:37] participate in it in fact of

[1:10:39] many of the municipal shelters

[1:10:41] we spoke to several said that if

[1:10:42] there was a bill about this they

[1:10:45] would sign on and participate as

[1:10:46] a signatory to this

[1:10:51] a better way we know there's a

[1:10:53] better way you all heard about

[1:10:55] it today. I think my amazing

[1:10:56] colleagues for being a part of

[1:10:57] this and for all of you to

[1:10:59] listening about this and opening

[1:11:00] your hearts to this and your

[1:11:02] minds about this umm gonna end

[1:11:03] on a video and I'll stay here

[1:11:05] for any questions you might have

[1:11:08] about our facility and about

[1:11:10] Grace who's a survivor

[1:11:13] and again there's there's a

[1:11:14] better path forward

[1:11:18] I think that we just need to

[1:11:18] repeal this. Thank you.

[1:11:32] sorry

[1:11:33] oh

[1:11:38] for fif years theigoreedom

[1:11:40] project has rescued animals from

[1:11:40] laboratory testing

[1:11:47] and placed them with loving

[1:11:48] families

[1:11:52] we've passed legislation it's

[1:11:53] called the beaglereedom bill.

[1:11:55] The governor today proclaiming

[1:11:57] beagle freedom project day with

[1:11:59] scientists to help reduce the

[1:12:00] need for animal testing

[1:12:05] then two years agoiglereedom

[1:12:07] Project did something never done

[1:12:08] before

[1:12:15] approached an animal testing

[1:12:16] laboratory in Oklahoma with a

[1:12:17] bold request

[1:12:21] close your doors and we can give

[1:12:22] all your animals a loving home

[1:12:23] they agreed

[1:12:29] massive animal testing lab in

[1:12:31] Oklahoma has been shut down.

[1:12:32] Nothing like this has ever been

[1:12:34] done before where or anyone's

[1:12:35] been able to close down an

[1:12:37] animal testing facility and then

[1:12:39] turn the facility into a rehab

[1:12:40] and sanctuary.

[1:12:53] today that former testing

[1:12:54] facility is Freedom Fields

[1:12:59] a sanctuary in Nowata Oklahoma

[1:13:01] for animals rescued from

[1:13:02] laboratories.

[1:13:04] where animals were once tested

[1:13:07] they now heal

[1:13:26] animals like grace

[1:13:29] Grace was a victim of pound

[1:13:31] seizure taken from an animal

[1:13:33] shelter and sold to a testing

[1:13:34] laboratory

[1:13:37] there she endured harsh

[1:13:39] experiments today Grace lives at

[1:13:41] Freedom Fields waiting for her

[1:13:42] forever home

[1:13:49] every animal that arrives at

[1:13:50] Freedom Fields receives

[1:13:50] veterinary care

[1:13:54] and rehabilitation from the

[1:13:55] trauma they endured in the labs

[1:13:59] and when they're ready we place

[1:14:00] them with incredible families

[1:14:04] becausereedom Fields is more

[1:14:04] than a rescue

[1:14:07] it's a home

[1:14:09] a sanctuary

[1:14:13] proof that even after everything

[1:14:16] a new beginning is possible

[1:14:50] right. thank you so much. Are

[1:14:50] there any questions?

[1:14:52] from any many members yes

[1:14:56] thank you for the wonderful

[1:14:59] presentation to clarify is your

[1:15:01] policy recommendation a repeal

[1:15:03] to the existing statute and then

[1:15:06] also a ban on pound seizures

[1:15:07] it is

[1:15:09] thank you

[1:15:15] all right thank you and thank

[1:15:17] you to all of our presenters

[1:15:19] thank you again to our chair

[1:15:21] chairirhamilton to our committee

[1:15:23] members in attendance we had

[1:15:25] senator Logan and Senator

[1:15:27] Goodwin and to our house members

[1:15:29] for also showing up today. I

[1:15:31] appreciate your support and

[1:15:33] those in attendance and watching

[1:15:35] online Shannon Key thank you

[1:15:37] again with beaglereedom Project

[1:15:38] and the folks that you brought

[1:15:40] with you today Miss Cynthia

[1:15:41] Armstrong Oklahoma state

[1:15:42] director for human

[1:15:47] Humane world for animals and for

[1:15:48] Miss Tina Gunter our general

[1:15:51] counsel and director of Oklahoma

[1:15:52] department of agriculture, Food

[1:15:53] and forestry thank you

[1:15:58] to Miss Sherrieerrier with the

[1:16:00] executive director of the Tulsa

[1:16:02] Animal Services and deputyrector

[1:16:05] Colton thank you for traveling

[1:16:07] Missyndsay Soist, the header of

[1:16:08] programmes for rice for

[1:16:09] animalimals thank you

[1:16:11] andokklahoma animalimal

[1:16:13] coalition for their assistance

[1:16:14] and participation with this

[1:16:15] important topic in interim study

[1:16:18] as well as a senator kirt for

[1:16:21] being here as well and our

[1:16:23] senate staff thank you and to my

[1:16:24] executive

[1:16:25] assistant Miss Joyce. I could

[1:16:27] not have done this without you.

[1:16:28] thank you so so much

[1:16:33] this was a topic that I did not

[1:16:36] have familiarity with and I

[1:16:39] think it's very important for us

[1:16:40] to understand a lot of these

[1:16:43] topics. I spent time on city

[1:16:46] council the animal shelter was

[1:16:49] in my ward that I served on and

[1:16:51] I had no idea that there was a

[1:16:53] law on the books as as serving

[1:16:55] as an elected official that

[1:16:58] would hinder animals from being

[1:16:58] able to live

[1:17:03] a full life. I can't imagine my

[1:17:07] foxy brown who lived to be 18

[1:17:09] and my imi who lived to be six

[1:17:13] you know being lost and being

[1:17:16] given up to a shelter and me

[1:17:19] never seeing them again because

[1:17:22] they had to be given up for

[1:17:24] testing. I can't imagine now

[1:17:25] having a storm as a cat

[1:17:30] in my house that will be two

[1:17:32] in a couple of months. I can't

[1:17:35] imagine those things because I

[1:17:37] had no idea these things existed

[1:17:39] and I'm grateful that we were

[1:17:41] able to have the conversation

[1:17:43] because it sparked a different

[1:17:47] type of of way of informing the

[1:17:49] public about what is happening

[1:17:50] in the state of Oklahoma

[1:17:54] and when it was shared on social

[1:17:57] media the conversations began

[1:17:59] and as you heard the inquiries

[1:18:02] also started to pour in about

[1:18:05] who is asking for a license in

[1:18:06] Oklahoma. Nobody

[1:18:09] no one is asking for a license

[1:18:11] this has been on the books and I

[1:18:13] said I apologize 1957 when we

[1:18:14] began I couldn't read my own

[1:18:17] writing. it is 1951 but

[1:18:19] that's too long for us to have

[1:18:21] something such as this so we

[1:18:25] heard today public trust we

[1:18:27] heard we are here to help and

[1:18:28] protect the animals from harm

[1:18:31] we heard that there's a federal

[1:18:35] topic recently as June of this

[1:18:37] year about this bipartisan issue

[1:18:39] this is a bipartisan issue this

[1:18:41] is a urban and rural issue no

[1:18:43] right of refusal mandatory

[1:18:47] transfers I can't imagine how

[1:18:48] our folks who work for these

[1:18:51] different shelters feel that

[1:18:53] they're being forced to give up

[1:18:55] animals instead of us being able

[1:18:57] to help and protect so I ask

[1:18:58] that we will continue to look at

[1:18:58] how

[1:19:01] we can protect more nutmegs more

[1:19:04] maxes more graces more bucks

[1:19:07] ofokklahoma and more foxy

[1:19:09] browns. I love my foxy brown and

[1:19:11] I promise you I just can't

[1:19:16] imagine kids getting their dogs,

[1:19:17] not seeing their dogs again

[1:19:19] because they just ran off and

[1:19:20] you never see them because they

[1:19:22] are now being given up for

[1:19:23] testing. I just can't imagine

[1:19:26] that so again I appreciate the

[1:19:27] conversation and I thank

[1:19:28] everyone who was

[1:19:31] a part of this conversation

[1:19:33] today and look forward to us

[1:19:35] going further in depth with

[1:19:36] the next legislative session

[1:19:40] for us to look at repealing and

[1:19:41] doing something different with

[1:19:43] this this particular piece of

[1:19:45] legislation on the books and

[1:19:47] thank you again Mr Chair for

[1:19:48] allowing me to present this

[1:19:48] study

[1:19:51] you senator nicepresentative

[1:19:53] Heffner for bringing this

[1:19:57] over it's not always our job to

[1:19:58] agree with each other but it is

[1:19:59] always our job to listen to each

[1:20:01] other so thank you for an

[1:20:02] interesting and informative

[1:20:03] presentation and thank you to

[1:20:05] the esteemed colleagues from the

[1:20:09] house for being here today and

[1:20:10] I also want to echo your

[1:20:11] comments thank you to the senate

[1:20:13] staff at all levels nothing

[1:20:15] happens up here without them and

[1:20:17] they do great work for us and

[1:20:18] most importantly

[1:20:20] I'd like to thank God that we

[1:20:21] live in a country where we can

[1:20:24] hash out our differences civilly

[1:20:25] thank you with that we'll

[1:20:26] adjourn the meeting

Local and County Government

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