[0:00] Okay, we are recording.

[0:03] >> Excellent. End it at 6:30.

[0:09] Good evening. Seeing the presence of a

[0:11] quorum, I am calling the uh August 31st,

[0:13] 2026 special meeting work session of the

[0:16] town council to order at 6:30 p.m.

[0:19] Please be advised that this meeting is

[0:21] being held in person and that the remote

[0:22] access option for members of the public

[0:24] is provided as a courtesy only. In the

[0:26] event of technology issues with the

[0:28] remote connection, the meeting will

[0:29] continue in person as scheduled as long

[0:31] as there is a quorum of the council

[0:32] present in the town room or through

[0:33] technological means. Chapter 2 of the

[0:36] acts of 2025 extended through June 30,

[0:38] 2027, the ability of public bodies to

[0:41] meet without a quorum of the council

[0:42] physically present at the meeting

[0:44] location, although a quorum is present

[0:45] in the town room. This meeting is being

[0:48] recorded and is accessible in real time

[0:50] via Zoom, by phone, and is a live

[0:52] broadcast on Ammerst Media Channel 9 and

[0:54] at ammerismedia.org. board. At this

[0:57] time, I will call upon each counselor by

[0:58] the name they have indicated that they

[1:00] would like to be addressed. This will

[1:02] indicate that we can hear you and you

[1:04] can hear us. Councelor Breick,

[1:06] >> yes.

[1:06] >> Councelor Kennel Martin,

[1:08] >> present.

[1:09] >> Andy Churchill,

[1:10] >> yes.

[1:11] >> Anna Deongier,

[1:13] uh, Lyn Greimer,

[1:14] >> present.

[1:15] >> Mandy Johan is present. Councelor Lord,

[1:18] >> present.

[1:19] >> Sam Mloud,

[1:20] >> present.

[1:21] >> Pam,

[1:22] >> here.

[1:23] >> Councelor Ryan,

[1:24] >> I'm here. Kathy Shane,

[1:26] >> I'm here.

[1:26] >> Jennifer Tub

[1:28] >> here.

[1:29] >> And councelor Walker

[1:31] is not here yet. Um, if counselors have

[1:34] technical issues, please let the council

[1:36] clerk know or call a point of personal

[1:38] privilege. Uh, there will be one public

[1:40] comment period during this work session.

[1:43] Um, if you are in the town room, please

[1:45] sign up with the council clerk to make

[1:46] public comment. If you are attending

[1:48] remotely, I will ask for you to raise

[1:50] your hand in the Zoom application when

[1:51] we reach the time for public comment.

[1:53] is at the end of this

[1:55] work session tonight, which is a slight

[1:58] change from our typical meetings. Um,

[2:03] tonight the council meets in a work

[2:05] session to continue the town's work to

[2:07] review the current zoning on the

[2:09] Hampshire College campus. Following

[2:11] Hampshire College's announcement that it

[2:14] will cease academic operations as a

[2:16] college after December 2026, the town of

[2:18] Ammerst initiated a study to develop

[2:21] zoning options for future use of the

[2:23] Hampshire campus property. With the

[2:25] support of our state legislators,

[2:27] Senator Kmerford and Representative Dom,

[2:29] and especially the guidance of Governor

[2:30] Hilly's team and especially Lieutenant

[2:33] Governor Driscoll, Mass Development

[2:35] offered substantial technical assistance

[2:37] in the form of professional consultants

[2:39] to help the town through this process.

[2:41] Mass Development is a state agency that

[2:43] partners with businesses, nonprofits,

[2:44] and municipalities to stimulate economic

[2:47] growth, create jobs, and develop

[2:49] housing. The purpose and goal of this

[2:51] council work session is for counselors

[2:53] to expand upon the vote we took on our

[2:56] priorities for the campus by

[2:58] brainstorming ideas for the Hampshire

[2:59] campus zoning project and identifying

[3:02] goals, concerns, and questions in order

[3:04] to assist the consultants in their work.

[3:07] This is a time for counselors to air

[3:09] their ideas, priorities, and concerns,

[3:11] not to debate or deliberate on other

[3:13] counselor's comments. This is a

[3:15] brainstorming session, not a

[3:16] deliberation on a specific proposal.

[3:19] It is important to note that we do not

[3:21] speak for Hampshire College nor for its

[3:23] president or board of trustees. The

[3:26] college is the owner of the land and has

[3:27] the final say in its disposition. We are

[3:30] focused on zoning options. The

[3:32] consultants will be jointly facilitating

[3:34] the meeting with me. They will start

[3:36] with a short short presentation then

[3:38] move to a series of prompting questions

[3:39] for us to respond to and may use

[3:41] additional time to gain further

[3:43] information on counselor responses. Work

[3:46] sessions permit informal polls, but no

[3:48] formal votes. The consultants may choose

[3:51] to conduct informal polls to gauge the

[3:53] sense of the council on certain items,

[3:55] or they may not. These sense of the

[3:57] council polls, if they're done, are

[3:58] simply to help the consultants conduct

[4:00] their work. I have a few requests for

[4:02] counselors so that all counselors have

[4:04] an opportunity to equally contribute.

[4:06] After each prompt, there will be a quick

[4:08] roundroin style of responses from

[4:10] counselors. Please present your top

[4:13] three items for each prompt quickly and

[4:15] concisely in this first round. It should

[4:18] take you no more than a minute to do so.

[4:21] I will recognize counselors during this

[4:23] time in a random order so that all 13

[4:25] counselors have a chance to respond

[4:27] without having to raise their hands and

[4:29] I have already set that random order for

[4:32] each of the prompts. Um, and it is

[4:34] random. Please do not enter prolonged

[4:37] debate or deliberation. Our purpose at

[4:39] the work session is to get information

[4:41] out there for the consultants. Um, and

[4:44] do your best to not repeat something

[4:46] that's already been said. Although in

[4:47] the first round, Robin, I get that that

[4:49] will happen. Um, but if we go on to

[4:53] further discussion, please try to limit

[4:55] your comments so that we can get as many

[4:56] ideas and brainstorms out there as

[4:58] possible. The structure of the meeting

[5:00] has assumed that all counselors have

[5:02] watched the July 21st public meeting

[5:04] with the consultants and read all of the

[5:06] materials provided in the packet. The

[5:09] goal is to address all three prompting

[5:10] questions within a 2-hour meeting.

[5:12] Therefore, we may wrap up discussion on

[5:14] one question while there are still

[5:15] counselors who wish to add information

[5:17] so that we are able to get through all

[5:19] of the questions. Public comment will be

[5:21] taken at the end of the meeting with

[5:23] each commenter having two minutes to

[5:25] make their comment. We also have our new

[5:28] a new website at

[5:29] hampshireampuszzoningstudy.com.

[5:32] The website is the repository for all

[5:34] information about the work on Hampshire

[5:36] campus zoning, presentations, past

[5:38] studies, and provides the opportunity to

[5:40] pose questions and sign up to receive

[5:42] notices and updates. I thank everyone

[5:45] and especially counselors in advance for

[5:47] your cooperation and help in ensuring

[5:49] that we are able to make the work most

[5:50] of this work session. With that, I'm

[5:54] going

[5:54] >> a quick point of order. Sure. Councelor

[5:55] Walker has joined us and and also if you

[5:58] would please speak a little bit closer

[5:59] to your microphone. Thank you.

[6:00] >> Okay. I don't have the high high one so

[6:05] I will get closer to it. Thank you. Um

[6:07] councelor Walker, can you hear us?

[6:08] >> Yes. Thank you.

[6:10] >> Thank you. Um with that um we will move

[6:12] into the work session Hampshire campus

[6:14] zonian study and move to Jeff Bag, our

[6:17] um planning director.

[6:20] >> Great. Thank you. Um I am Jeff Bag. from

[6:23] the town's director of planning and

[6:24] economic development. I I wanted to

[6:26] thank you very much for creating this

[6:28] opportunity to update the council and to hear from you at this stage of the

[6:33] zoning study. We are really thankful to

[6:36] Mass Development for providing the town

[6:38] with the technical assistance. They have

[6:41] created an initiative called the

[6:44] communities affected by college closures

[6:47] and we've been working with them for a

[6:49] period of time now and we're entering a

[6:51] phase two and so pending final approval

[6:55] um we're going to be hosting the next

[6:56] inerson sessions and I wanted to just

[6:59] make a quick announcement on those.

[7:01] They're going to be Tuesday September

[7:03] 22nd and Thursday September 24th at the

[7:07] Eric Carl Museum. So, we'll have some

[7:10] outreach that's going to happen this

[7:12] week. I just figured I would say that

[7:13] and have people mark their calendars.

[7:15] Those are going to be in the evenings.

[7:17] Um, and we'll talk about them a little

[7:19] bit in in the presentation.

[7:22] And I the other two things uh the

[7:24] council president mentioned a few things

[7:25] that were on my list so I'll jump around

[7:27] but the team um here presented to the

[7:30] planning board on August 19th and they

[7:33] as a board were supportive of the

[7:35] proactive approach and identified the

[7:38] importance of creating a mixeduse

[7:40] village center advocated for higher

[7:42] density housing including workforce and

[7:45] starter housing and encourage outside of

[7:47] the box thinking given the unique

[7:49] opportunity.

[7:52] It's important to reiterate that our

[7:55] project involves zoning options for the

[7:57] property that could support future uses

[7:58] in line with the goals and the vision of

[8:00] the town. The town is not acquiring the

[8:02] land. It's not choosing what happens or

[8:06] ultimately who acquires the land. Those

[8:08] decisions will be made by the trustees.

[8:11] Um for interested people, the website

[8:14] again is hampshireampusoningstudy.com.

[8:17] And I think with that I'm going to hand

[8:19] it over to our team from Horsely Whitten

[8:21] and Dodson and Blinker for the

[8:23] presentation followed by the facilitated

[8:25] discussion.

[8:28] >> Thank you Jeff and thank you uh all

[8:30] counselors for having us here this

[8:31] evening. Um you go to the next slide

[8:34] please. So tonight we'll go through a

[8:36] brief presentation um as was already

[8:39] mentioned where we'll talk about our

[8:40] process um our how it aligns with town

[8:43] plans and policies and then some

[8:46] different zoning considerations. We're

[8:47] really at sort of the beginning of

[8:49] starting to think about how we want to

[8:51] crack the code on like opening the the

[8:53] sort of once in a-lifetime opportunity

[8:55] that you have here. here and we've done

[8:57] a little research as well um and

[8:59] bringing some of our own uh experience

[9:01] to the table where we've seen other

[9:03] communities uh grapple with similar

[9:05] situations singular large site

[9:08] redevelopment opportunities whether it

[9:10] was an industrial complex or a hospital

[9:12] or whatever it may have been. Uh this

[9:14] does happen uh quite frequently and so

[9:17] other communities have done this and

[9:18] we're trying to learn from that as we go

[9:20] along and then we'll have our discussion

[9:22] as we as we mentioned. Next slide

[9:24] please.

[9:26] So our team

[9:28] um is as Jeff said obviously the town of

[9:31] Amherst is at the core of this. This is

[9:33] a project technical assistance for the

[9:35] town uh with mass development support.

[9:38] Um Horley Whitten Group is a planning

[9:41] engineer design firm. I'm the lead

[9:44] planner, principal planner at the firm

[9:46] and we do a lot of zoning work, a lot of

[9:48] technical uh work around planning for

[9:51] zoning and site development. So we bring

[9:53] that development perspective um and

[9:56] natural resource protection perspective

[9:58] to the process when we when we do this.

[10:01] Uh U3 advisors is not here tonight but

[10:04] they're along with us on the real estate

[10:07] side. So U3 will help us test different

[10:10] scenarios uh particularly in terms of

[10:12] fiscal impacts. So as we go through this

[10:15] process and we start to think about the

[10:17] scale and the mix of uses, we'll have U3

[10:20] with us to sort of reality check that

[10:22] and talk about, you know, how productive

[10:25] that would be, how attractive that would

[10:26] be from a financial real estate market

[10:29] perspective. And then to my left, uh,

[10:32] Peter Flinker of Dodson and Flinker.

[10:34] Peter and I have worked together for for

[10:36] quite a while now doing this type of

[10:38] work and where Worsley Whitten sort of

[10:40] brings that technical science

[10:42] development background. Uh Peter's group

[10:45] is just fantastic designers. Um and so

[10:47] they help us think about how sites will

[10:50] be laid out, how the the community

[10:53] neighborhood design aspect might occur.

[10:56] Um you know what works best for a site.

[10:58] They site design in a very

[11:00] contextsensitive manner. Um, so very

[11:03] sensitive again to the landscape, the

[11:05] natural resources, all of those things.

[11:07] So we really, you know, have worked well

[11:09] together over a couple of decades um in

[11:11] this type of thing, helping communities

[11:13] visualize development and eventually

[11:15] take that to zoning. Next slide, please.

[11:19] So our process, which uh Peter will go

[11:22] through in a little bit more uh depth,

[11:24] as I mentioned or as Jeff mentioned, we

[11:27] will have opportunities for engagement.

[11:29] Uh we are just getting started and Peter

[11:31] will talk about a more robust

[11:32] opportunity with the 20 the later

[11:35] September meetings. Um I mentioned the

[11:38] fiscal analyses that are going to occur.

[11:40] Worsley Whitt's looking at the

[11:41] infrastructure piece as well because we

[11:43] have the engineers on staff. We'll be

[11:45] thinking about water, wastewater,

[11:47] roadway capacity as we go through this

[11:49] and then we'll get to the

[11:50] recommendations process. Our goal is to

[11:53] have this zoning fully drafted a full

[11:56] package by January. Next slide, please.

[12:02] » Good evening, everyone. Nice to be here.

[12:04] Um, so we've laid out a process that'll

[12:07] go over the next four months, basically

[12:09] 18 to 20 weeks. Um, and there's sort of

[12:12] a parallel tracks of there's sort of a

[12:15] public engagement and planning process.

[12:18] And then there's going to be the fiscal

[12:20] analysis process, which you see down

[12:22] toward the bottom of the slide. And then

[12:23] throughout this, we'll be testing

[12:25] various approaches to zoning to try to

[12:28] find the best fit between the zoning

[12:31] strategies and the sort of planning and

[12:34] design strategies for this site. So,

[12:36] it'll start with uh two public meetings

[12:39] September 22nd and 24th. The first of

[12:42] those we like to use as kind of a

[12:45] listening session uh sort of before you

[12:48] start putting pictures on the wall and

[12:50] having people react to just let people

[12:52] sort of talk about uh what they care

[12:54] about, what they're concerned about,

[12:55] what their hopes are for the future.

[12:57] We'll also be sharing everything that we

[12:59] know about the site and trying to start

[13:02] shaping the different scenarios that we

[13:04] want to test and that process of looking

[13:06] at the scenarios will start on the

[13:09] Thursday workshop. So you don't have to

[13:11] come to both workshops that week, but it

[13:13] would be great if people can commit to

[13:15] both of them. Uh then we'll be going

[13:18] back and trying to shape the first of a

[13:20] number of different scenarios, bringing

[13:23] those around to various focus groups.

[13:24] We're hoping to meet separately with

[13:26] neighborhood residents early in October

[13:29] and then that'll lead to another public

[13:30] meeting, third public meeting of this

[13:32] process early in November. And then

[13:34] we'll go back and iteratively be working

[13:37] on the plans and hopefully coming up

[13:39] with the final strategy for the zoning

[13:42] um later in December. And then at

[13:44] several points you can see in October

[13:46] and November there will be a fiscal

[13:48] analysis to look at the key scenarios

[13:50] and think about which one is the most

[13:52] beneficial to the town. Which one of

[13:54] those most likely to succeed in the

[13:57] marketplace? And then throughout, as I

[13:59] said, looking at what's the best fit for

[14:01] zoning because there's lots of different

[14:02] strategies. You've tried lots of

[14:04] different things in Ammerst before to

[14:07] promote the kind of development you

[14:08] want. So we'll be looking at what's

[14:10] worked in Ammerst and what's looked at

[14:11] other places and trying to find the best

[14:13] fit.

[14:16] Next slide.

[14:18] And so this of course is no news to this

[14:21] group. We have great context um in terms

[14:24] of how we proceed. So with the town

[14:26] council uh vote in June 1st clearly

[14:30] stating priorities associated with this

[14:32] site with the balance of housing, small

[14:34] business development and tax revenue

[14:36] generating uses alongside the

[14:39] acknowledgement of the sensitive habitat

[14:42] uh conditions that you have in many

[14:44] places, lots of streams, lots of

[14:46] wetlands, high groundwater table. Um,

[14:49] and when you're looking at housing

[14:50] development, really recognize that this

[14:52] is one of the things that's so amazing

[14:54] about this opportunity with a large site

[14:56] is the the variety that you have the

[14:59] opportunity to provide in a single

[15:02] setting. Um, it's really that just

[15:04] doesn't happen very often anymore in New

[15:05] England with how much constrained land

[15:07] that we have. So, um, and of course as

[15:10] we um are thinking this through, we are

[15:13] also thinking about services and

[15:14] facilities. what what are the recreation

[15:17] opportunities? How is the infrastructure

[15:20] going to be able to cope with um

[15:22] different development scenarios over

[15:23] time as buildout occurs? Next slide,

[15:26] please.

[15:29] Uh the current zoning is, you know, one

[15:31] of the reasons why this proactive

[15:33] approach is so important is that the

[15:35] current zoning particular on the core is

[15:38] really just tailored towards one thing.

[15:40] is really tailored towards the

[15:41] functioning of that campus as an

[15:44] educational uh institution and so um

[15:47] trying to do anything else at this point

[15:50] really isn't going to work. So the the

[15:52] do nothing scenario really isn't very

[15:54] practical uh for the community. So in

[15:56] that core area with that ED that

[15:59] educational district um that's something

[16:01] that um is really going to be important

[16:03] for us to look at where we'll focus a

[16:05] lot of energy in this process. But of

[16:08] course to the north you have some active

[16:10] agricultural land uh which is currently

[16:13] zoned for lowdensity housing with the

[16:15] farmland conservation district that

[16:18] promotes farming uses. So an important

[16:21] different environment to the north and

[16:23] we'll be thinking about those as we as

[16:25] we go through. Next slide please.

[16:30] So, as you know, uh, over the course of

[16:32] this summer, we've been pulling together

[16:34] all the available existing mapping to

[16:36] try to understand what's possible on the

[16:38] site in terms of future growth and

[16:40] development, what's important to protect

[16:42] in terms of conservation. And we're

[16:45] hoping that this will create a useful

[16:47] basis of information again for our

[16:49] public workshops and for people to react

[16:51] to. On this particular map, which is

[16:54] kind of a summary of different factors

[16:55] affecting development, the blue

[16:57] corridors are existing streams of

[17:01] various varieties, some of them

[17:03] perennial, some of them intermittent

[17:05] along with their protected buffers.

[17:07] There are wetlands as mapped by the

[17:09] state and their protected buffers.

[17:11] There's also um soils, hydraological or

[17:15] hydric soils rather, which are the ones

[17:17] which have been mapped in the past uh

[17:20] with high water table. None of this is

[17:23] been verified on the ground. So, as you

[17:25] know, any development process can't

[17:28] really move forward until you do the

[17:29] wetland surveys and so on. And we don't

[17:32] have the time or the budget to do

[17:33] detailed surveys. But we're going to be

[17:35] using the best information we can and

[17:38] trying to generally get a framework of

[17:40] how much of this land is possibly

[17:42] developable, what is most important to

[17:44] protect and so on. The next slide shows

[17:48] u key areas that have the fewest

[17:51] constraints and this again is a

[17:53] continuum. Some constraints are

[17:55] absolute. You can't develop a wetland.

[17:57] Some constraints are a matter of cost

[18:00] where it costs more to develop footings

[18:03] and poor soils and so on. But there

[18:06] appear to be about 200 acres or more

[18:08] that are relatively few of constraints.

[18:10] And this includes the existing core

[18:12] campus. So just by itself, 200 acres is

[18:16] a really large piece of land with lots

[18:18] of possibilities. So we're going to be

[18:20] starting with this understanding and

[18:22] moving forward with hopefully a lot of

[18:24] eyes including yours looking at these

[18:26] different maps and trying to figure out

[18:28] the best way to move forward.

[18:32] And so as you all received a memorandum

[18:36] from us as sort of prepping for this

[18:38] meeting, we talked about the other

[18:40] areas, you know, beyond the vote that

[18:41] you took in June, um that set context,

[18:44] the policy context for this with your

[18:47] 2010 master plan that was readopted in

[18:50] 2020, the 2021 comprehensive housing

[18:53] policy, which talks very concretely

[18:55] about some of the goals you have

[18:57] relative to housing and housing

[18:58] diversity, attainability, and Then most

[19:01] recently, a very helpful document for

[19:03] us, uh, hot off the presses is the 2025

[19:07] housing production plan, which not only

[19:09] gives us the policy and strategic

[19:11] framework, but the data that were used

[19:13] to develop that are the most recent data

[19:15] that we have access to. So, it's really

[19:17] fresh, really helpful for us um, going

[19:20] forward. Next slide, please.

[19:23] Uh as Peter mentioned, you know, some of

[19:25] the local challenges that we face uh

[19:28] from a develop developability

[19:30] perspective uh are those natural

[19:33] constraints, the wetland streams, the

[19:34] high groundwater and then also balancing

[19:37] the need for farmland that I discussed

[19:38] earlier and other conservation land

[19:40] limits um that are, you know, going to

[19:43] potentially remove developable area from

[19:46] the equation. Uh infrastructure is going

[19:49] to be important. We've had preliminary

[19:51] discussions with folks at town staff.

[19:54] There are no major red flags. Um but

[19:56] that doesn't mean the infrastructure is

[19:58] ready for um brand new mass scale

[20:01] development tomorrow. It's not like

[20:04] anything else. It will need to be

[20:05] improved over time. Uh but again, no

[20:07] major red flags in terms of looking down

[20:10] the 5 10 20 year horizon. Those are just

[20:13] improvements that g get made along the

[20:15] way. Um these all provide an opportunity

[20:18] to take creative approaches to resoning.

[20:21] Uh we really do have to think about you

[20:23] know where we can get creative. It was

[20:25] nice to be with the planning board and

[20:27] hear them encourage us to think in that

[20:29] way. And so there are a lot of examples.

[20:31] U we've come we researched approximately

[20:34] a dozen examples. I'll go through a few

[20:36] of them right now just to give you a

[20:38] flavor for it. So next slide please.

[20:41] So, one that's uh very familiar to

[20:43] everybody, the Village Hill, uh

[20:45] Northampton, about 126 acres, so in the

[20:48] ballpark, you know, you know, we're in

[20:50] the triple digits here uh with a

[20:52] combination of commercial uh R&D, light

[20:55] industrial, residential uses. So, an

[20:58] example of a master planned community um

[21:00] that's really meant to function as a

[21:02] cohesive unit in terms of its

[21:04] circulation, in terms of the experience

[21:06] on the ground for the people who visit

[21:07] there. And this was done through a

[21:09] combination of 40R and local development

[21:12] controls. One of the big differences

[21:14] here is that mass development is is

[21:17] really a big player here in managing

[21:20] this. And so this is not something that

[21:22] you're going to have when you're looking

[21:23] at uh the Hampshire campus. Uh you're

[21:26] not going to have a state level entity

[21:28] in that management position. It'll be

[21:30] the town working with a private entity

[21:33] um to to you know achieve the vision.

[21:36] Next next slide please.

[21:38] I'm in Plymouth. Um Plymouth has a

[21:41] couple of um interesting zoning tools on

[21:44] the books and two really notable

[21:46] communities. They have the Pine Hills,

[21:48] about 3,000 acres, I believe. I'm not

[21:51] 100% sure on this, but Plymouth may be

[21:53] the largest town east of the

[21:54] Mississippi. So, they've got a town the

[21:57] size of Belmont is one development um

[22:00] with Plymouth. Anyway, another one is

[22:03] this Redbrook. Um so this is a a bit

[22:05] smaller um but it is another example of

[22:09] you know an area that was developed

[22:12] in close proximity to a lot of natural

[22:14] resources. So that contextsensitive

[22:17] approach was really important. Um they

[22:19] used some different tools uh here that

[22:23] are more complicated. Um they in terms

[22:26] of transfer of development rights. So

[22:28] they're actually moving development from

[22:30] one area of the community to another to

[22:32] achieve a higher density. Um that is a

[22:35] complex tool that doesn't have a lot of

[22:38] uh case study success, but they're

[22:40] making it work here uh in Plymouth. And

[22:43] they did start out with a special permit

[22:46] as their master plan approval, but they

[22:49] develop smaller areas through an

[22:52] expedited site plan review after that.

[22:54] the the master plan um is sort of a

[22:57] bigger permit, higher scrutiny process,

[22:59] but then once you start developing

[23:01] underneath that, it moves very quickly.

[23:03] Next slide, please. Uh Rethm Village

[23:06] zoning district. So, this is I'm always

[23:08] quick to say this is not the outlet

[23:10] malls. Um this is uh down by the uh

[23:13] their historic uh village center, but

[23:16] what was interesting is they had this

[23:17] sort of 50 acre vacant industrial site

[23:21] just off the back of their historic main

[23:23] street. And so they decided to look at

[23:25] this as a cohesive unit, divide it up

[23:28] again into some subd districts. One of

[23:30] the interesting pieces here is that they

[23:33] put a lot of emphasis on a

[23:36] pre-application process. So they want

[23:38] the applicant, the developer to come in

[23:41] early um with some conceptual plans,

[23:44] sort of get the the discussion going and

[23:46] maybe provide some predictability.

[23:49] Next slide, please.

[23:52] Uh Great Barington. So, here's a campus

[23:54] overlay district, Bard College. And this

[23:57] is a a bit of a smaller area uh than

[24:01] what we're looking at here. But the I

[24:03] guess what I'll say here, the the

[24:05] interesting thing here or one of the

[24:07] unique features is that they sort of

[24:09] have a two-tiered. One of the questions

[24:11] we'll keep asking is where do we have

[24:13] byite site plan review special permit?

[24:16] How do those different permitting

[24:17] mechanisms work? And what they did here

[24:20] was they set a modest level of density

[24:22] as the byite avenue and if you wanted to

[24:25] do higher it would go to a higher

[24:27] permitting process a higher scrutiny

[24:29] process with the special permit. Next

[24:32] slide please.

[24:34] And so for us you know these kinds of

[24:36] the questions that we're thinking about.

[24:38] Are we going to use an overlay or are we

[24:39] going to have a new base district? We

[24:41] really want to create predictability.

[24:43] This is a big multi-year multi-million

[24:47] dollar investment and the town has its

[24:49] own aspirations that it's very clearly

[24:51] laid out in all these policy documents

[24:53] that we've discussed. So predictability

[24:55] on both ends of that is going to be

[24:57] really important. A master plan approval

[25:00] is probably going to be something that

[25:02] we have to look at if somebody buys this

[25:05] wholesale and wants to think about that

[25:08] type of village style mixeduse cohesive

[25:11] working neighborhood multiple

[25:13] neighborhoods. That's something that

[25:14] should be master planned in the

[25:16] beginning. You have to have some really

[25:17] good thought process going into that. So

[25:19] how does that fit into the permitting

[25:20] process? This will happen in phases

[25:23] there. this this we could be looking at

[25:25] 5 10 15 20 year buildout to this site

[25:28] right that's how this works over time so

[25:30] how does the permit process account for

[25:32] that changing conditions changing plans

[25:35] changing new tenants new owners that has

[25:38] to be baked into this as Peter said

[25:40] you've have some of your own tools uh in

[25:42] your toolbox so your plan unit

[25:45] residential developments some of your

[25:46] other village style developments we'll

[25:48] be looking at those pieces to see you

[25:50] know how that's met your priorities in

[25:52] the past building reuse is something

[25:54] that we have to think as well. There are

[25:56] some buildings on site that somebody may

[25:58] want to reuse. And the most important

[26:00] thing for our zoning is not to get in

[26:01] the way, right? We don't want if that's

[26:03] a viable option, if one of these

[26:05] buildings can be reused for something

[26:07] that's a community asset or a

[26:09] residential asset, we don't want to get

[26:11] in the way of that. Um, the housing

[26:13] diversity question, right? the types of

[26:15] housing, making sure that we have enough

[26:19] definitions, enough range, enough

[26:21] flexibility, um, with design standards

[26:24] to go with that to make sure you're

[26:26] getting a high quality product and that

[26:29] there gets back to that predictability

[26:31] thing. And as I mentioned, ownership can

[26:34] change. A master developer will bring in

[26:36] other developers to to develop small

[26:39] pockets. And so, we just don't want

[26:41] zoning to get in the way. We wanted to

[26:43] be able to account for that type of

[26:44] flexibility as you move along. All of

[26:47] these questions get informed by some of

[26:49] the work that Peter's going to be doing

[26:51] with the public process. So maybe Peter

[26:53] you could talk a little bit about the

[26:54] visualization that

[26:57] >> Yeah. So I think the the big message I

[26:59] want to leave you with as I said earlier

[27:00] is this is about testing different

[27:02] scenarios, lots of them and not trying

[27:06] to rule out anything too early. uh we

[27:09] are going to be constrained by time

[27:10] because we have to finish by the end of

[27:11] the year. Uh but within that time we

[27:13] want to be able to have a an open and

[27:16] objective look at all the different

[27:17] ideas and to see how that might benefit

[27:20] the town in different ways and benefit

[27:23] uh you know remaining

[27:26] needs of Hampshire College. Um the

[27:29] unusual thing about this is it is it

[27:30] does remain under the control of the

[27:32] Hampshire College trustees and like a

[27:35] lot of these projects that all of us

[27:37] have worked on you might have a master

[27:39] developer who knows what they want here.

[27:43] You know there's you know the the

[27:45] college is going to be acting as kind of

[27:46] an agent to distribute the the land to

[27:49] potential developers or potential

[27:52] conservation agents over time. I mean,

[27:54] we don't know what that's going to be in

[27:56] terms of decisions. So, we really need

[27:59] to come up with lots of different ideas

[28:01] both for the town to review and for the

[28:03] college to review and then to look at

[28:05] each of those in terms of the the fiscal

[28:08] dynamics and hopefully come to the again

[28:10] the best fit with the zoning finally at

[28:12] the end of the day.

[28:13] >> Right. Next slide, please. And so for

[28:17] tonight, so uh we've got through that's a lot of information, I know, but

[28:22] um important to reiterate as we go

[28:25] through these meetings to sort of keep

[28:26] everybody um firing on those synapses as

[28:29] we go through this complicated

[28:30] discussion. Tonight are we had sent some

[28:34] framing questions along and I'll just

[28:35] read these and then pass it back. Um we

[28:38] wanted to hear from all of you. What are

[28:41] your top three goals or priorities for

[28:43] the future of the Hampshire College

[28:45] campus? What are your greatest concerns

[28:47] or questions about the campus's future?

[28:50] And looking ahead 20 years, what

[28:52] outcomes would lead you to consider the

[28:54] reuse of this area as a success? You

[28:57] able to look back and say, "Yeah, we did

[28:59] it." And what outcomes would you regard

[29:01] as signs that the town made the wrong

[29:03] decisions? what would it look like 20

[29:05] years from now if we didn't quite get it

[29:07] right or if there were some instances of

[29:09] where some some of the right decisions

[29:11] weren't made. So I'll pass it back to

[29:13] you and start our round robin.

[29:16] >> Okay. [clears throat] So the way this is

[29:18] going to work is we're going to deal

[29:19] with each question separately. We're

[29:21] going to take the first one and then

[29:25] we're going to finish with that one and

[29:27] any further discussion before we move on

[29:29] to the next one so that we're not

[29:31] jumping around. The consultants aren't

[29:33] trying to keep everything on track and and deal with all of the jumping

[29:37] around. Um and so my thoughts are about

[29:41] 45 minutes for the first one, about 45

[29:43] minutes for the second one, and since

[29:44] the third one's a little bit less meaty,

[29:47] um a little bit less time for that. But

[29:49] we'll see how it goes. We'll see if

[29:50] there's dead time or anything. We're

[29:54] naturally wrapping up time. So, we're

[29:56] starting with the first one and after we

[29:58] do the round robin, I'm going to pass it

[29:59] off to to the consultants to do any

[30:02] follow-up questions they want with the

[30:03] first prompt and then and then we'll

[30:05] come back and when we finish that, we'll

[30:06] move to the second prompt. So, the first

[30:07] prompt is top three goals or priorities

[30:10] for the future of Hampshire College

[30:12] campus. Again, this is roundroin. Please

[30:14] name your top three hopefully in under a

[30:17] minute. Um and we'll have time to then

[30:20] expound on that later. Um we are

[30:22] starting with oh and for ease of

[30:25] consultant calling when they start

[30:28] facilitating themselves we're going to

[30:30] refer to everyone as counselor with last

[30:31] name even though that is not what some

[30:34] people have asked for. Um but it's for

[30:36] the ease of the consultants tonight. So

[30:39] counselor Devon Gothier.

[30:42] >> All right. Um is this thing is mine mic

[30:44] working? Can people hear it? Maybe it

[30:48] is. Okay. Usually I can hear myself

[30:50] louder, so I'm not sure.

[30:51] >> Yeah.

[30:52] >> All right. Yell at me if you can't hear.

[30:53] Uh, top three goals. Workforce and

[30:57] family housing. I know you can't control

[30:59] this, but I personally would love to see

[31:02] home ownership opportunities, not just rentals. Um, business and

[31:07] agrica agricultural opportunities

[31:10] and conservation and recreation. Those

[31:12] are my three kind of things I'd like to

[31:14] see. I'm going to cheat the question.

[31:16] Sorry. Uh, how I would like to see that

[31:19] done, I would love creative reuse and

[31:22] creating parcels

[31:24] instead of one soul.

[31:28] >> Thank you, councelor Rooney.

[31:35] » There we go. Um, one of my goals Thank

[31:38] you. This is a good a good start. Um uh

[31:41] one of my goals is that we utilize the

[31:44] existing facilities as best possible.

[31:47] Can you see me?

[31:49] >> We cannot. Your video is not on or not

[31:51] showing.

[31:52] >> Oh, it keeps going off.

[31:56] >> There you go.

[31:56] >> There we go. There we go. um to utilize

[32:00] uh existing buildings as best possible

[32:04] uh to just you know just from a energy

[32:06] conservation standpoint and all of that

[32:08] but also so that um

[32:13] we don't have to spend a lot of time or

[32:14] nobody has to spend a lot of time

[32:16] building new structures necessarily. Um,

[32:19] a second,

[32:21] um,

[32:23] goal would be to

[32:25] look for zoning that allows sort of a,

[32:28] uh, rings of density. And I'm thinking

[32:30] of places like Almira, Holland, uh, or

[32:34] even some of the new town development in Virginia where you have denser cores

[32:40] and then subsequent layers and and

[32:43] levels of density farther from the core.

[32:46] Um, and that would include uses of

[32:48] things like the PURDS

[32:51] or the open space community development

[32:53] and cluster development. So all of those tools and then I'll just

[32:59] throw in we we definitely want a higher

[33:01] tax base. That's not that goes without

[33:04] saying. So my third actual goal then is

[33:07] um uh an a master plan that organizes

[33:11] the the parcels with open space

[33:14] connections rather than utilizing

[33:17] roadways as the organizing feature.

[33:20] >> Thank you.

[33:21] Councelor Churchill.

[33:30] Um,

[33:32] I would like to see a range of housing

[33:34] types, um, with significant density to

[33:37] really help with our housing deficit.

[33:39] Um, I'd like to see, uh,

[33:44] taxable tax revenue for the town. And um

[33:48] I've come to be curious about the

[33:51] multisport center and whether there are

[33:53] recreational opportunities that could be

[33:55] taken advantage of by either the town or

[33:57] the the neighboring retirement community

[34:00] or whatever. There may be opportunities

[34:02] there.

[34:04] >> Thank you, Councelor Ko Martin.

[34:08] >> Um yeah, my definitely my top priority

[34:10] would be housing. um in the creation of

[34:12] housing um different kinds of housing um

[34:15] different levels of density and

[34:17] different uh price points so affordable

[34:19] housing and some market rate housing um

[34:21] and agree that there should be some home

[34:23] ownership opportunities as well. Um I

[34:26] think another priority would be as

[34:28] others have mentioned to reuse the

[34:30] existing buildings and make sure that

[34:32] we're um taking advantage of what's

[34:34] already there instead of just knocking

[34:35] it down and building new. Um, and then

[34:39] finally, um, I the conservation aspect.

[34:42] I think that, um, I think already in

[34:44] what I've been seeing in the materials

[34:45] so far, it's clear that, um, we're going

[34:47] to be maintaining, you know, the

[34:49] wetlands and in, you know, some of the

[34:51] existing conservation areas, but I I

[34:53] certainly wouldn't want to see any of,

[34:54] you know, farmland, for example, you

[34:57] know, or things that are being used for

[34:59] um, you know, conservation purposes be

[35:01] turned into housing. So, I think it's

[35:03] just creating that balance, right?

[35:06] Thank you, Council Ryan.

[35:11] » So, I will um take the prompt earlier of

[35:16] 20 years from now,

[35:18] the very optimistic assumption that I'll

[35:20] be here and wonder what um would this

[35:24] look like and I would feel like somehow

[35:25] we hadn't achieved what we'd hoped to

[35:28] achieve. And some of what I'm going to

[35:30] say is going to echo some of the things

[35:32] I'm hearing from my colleagues. But 20

[35:34] years from now, if I were looking at

[35:36] Hampshire College and I didn't see a

[35:39] substantial number of of starter homes

[35:42] of places that give people a chance to

[35:44] live in Ammeris, that right now simply

[35:46] is not possible. That would be one thing

[35:48] that would be disappointing to me. A

[35:50] second would be uh perhaps similar, but

[35:53] the kind of housing that would um allow

[35:56] people who work here um who can't afford

[35:59] to uh live here. Um, that would also be

[36:02] something that I would like to see that

[36:03] there would be what I call workforce

[36:05] housing, starter homes. Um, and finally,

[36:08] I think, um, addressing the town's

[36:09] facility needs. Um, they're many and

[36:12] complicated, but certainly in the area

[36:14] of recreation, given ideas of reuse. Um,

[36:18] it would be a shame if 20 years from

[36:20] now, nothing of the existing facilities

[36:23] were able to be reused. Um and it would

[36:25] be a shame if there wasn't something

[36:28] related perhaps to the needs of seniors,

[36:30] the needs of youth, um the recreation

[36:32] needs of the town and also the facility

[36:34] needs of our departments if something on

[36:37] that campus was not and hopefully more

[36:39] than one something were was not

[36:41] addressing those needs.

[36:44] >> Thank you, Councelor Lord.

[36:47] >> Thank you. Can you hear me? All right.

[36:49] >> Yes.

[36:49] >> Awesome. Um, number one would be housing

[36:53] justice. Use Ammeris, I mean Hampshire

[36:56] to create a mixed income,

[36:58] multigenerational community where

[37:00] working people and families can afford

[37:02] to live and build community in Ammerst.

[37:05] Two is um community wealth and wellness.

[37:10] So part of the campus could be used to

[37:12] create jobs, locally owned businesses,

[37:14] cultural space, um our BIPO, our youth

[37:17] center, education, mental health,

[37:18] wellness. Yay, everything. Let's go. And

[37:21] then a third goal would be the land

[37:23] steward for ship for to preserve the the

[37:28] habitat, the forest, the farmlands, the

[37:30] protected space for future generations.

[37:34] Thank you.

[37:35] >> Thank you, councelor Greimer.

[37:38] >> Thank you. Um, I agree with the multiple

[37:42] kinds of housing, but I would like to

[37:43] see a specific focus on homes that

[37:47] seniors could move into to get out of

[37:49] their existing homes. And I would also

[37:51] like to see an addition that would

[37:53] complement the Applewood community with

[37:56] other multiple level levels of care so

[37:59] that people could retire to that part of

[38:02] town and stay there until they passed.

[38:05] Um, I'd like to see um the pres

[38:09] preservation of the open space and

[38:11] conservation.

[38:13] Any others? Taxes.

[38:16] >> Thank you, Councelor Walker.

[38:20] >> Um, thank you. Uh, my first priority is

[38:23] housing like many other counselors have

[38:25] said. Um, specifically family housing

[38:27] and affordable housing. I think a

[38:29] mixture of rental and home ownership

[38:32] opportunities and starter homes. Um I'm

[38:35] also interested my second priority would

[38:37] be the retention of the recreational

[38:39] spaces um or facilities the courts the

[38:42] pools the daycare center uh

[38:44] multicultural center youth empowerment

[38:46] center um and my third priority is the

[38:50] maintaining of the conservation and

[38:52] farmland and hoping and wondering if

[38:55] whatever development does end up

[38:57] happening at Hampshire can sort of

[38:59] incorporate those spaces in some kind of

[39:02] educational way for a different way that

[39:04] can be accessible to the public.

[39:07] >> Thank you, Councelor Brevik.

[39:10] >> Yeah, I just wanted to say quickly, I

[39:12] appreciate the community outreach pro

[39:14] process that is underway and and

[39:17] I think that it will be important for

[39:19] all of us to hear what comes out of that

[39:21] too. So, just to note that I think that

[39:24] aside, we all sound very aligned in uh

[39:27] and going toward the end here um in our

[39:30] priorities that we laid out in the

[39:33] statement we we uh voted on in June. So,

[39:36] I will just add into the mix um to

[39:39] emphasize the importance of diverse

[39:42] housing. In one of the earlier

[39:44] presentations, uh, our consultants here,

[39:47] uh, referenced that students, seniors,

[39:49] and working-class families are all shown

[39:51] to be driving demand in our area. And

[39:54] so, housing that meets the demand from

[39:56] all of those groups, a balance of much

[39:58] needed density uh, with starter homes,

[40:01] as others have said. I would also love

[40:03] to see opportunities for partnerships

[40:05] with nonprofits or programs that lift

[40:08] families up economically, too. We saw

[40:10] that with Ammeris Community Homes and I

[40:11] know there are other great examples in

[40:13] the area where there can be services and

[40:15] programs layered onto housing

[40:17] development. Um I'll add also so I would

[40:22] also like to see economic and small

[40:23] business development. Uh we lost a big

[40:25] draw to the area and I think replacing

[40:28] that is important and having um

[40:31] businesses or arts and culture other

[40:33] things that are bringing people into the

[40:35] area. Um and then absolutely don't want

[40:39] to lose sight of uh the preservation of

[40:41] ecosystems and the the open space as

[40:44] this is critical for all of us to remain

[40:47] healthy and thriving in this area.

[40:49] Thanks.

[40:49] >> Thank you, Councelor Tub.

[40:54] >> Uh thank you. Of course, I agree with

[40:55] everything that's been said. I could

[40:57] literally just say especially ditto with

[41:00] what councelor Walker um said. So I uh

[41:03] my first priority would be housing to

[41:06] serve, you know, all the constituents in

[41:09] our community that need housing,

[41:11] especially workforce and family housing.

[41:14] Um both um starter homes, home ownership

[41:18] opportunities,

[41:19] uh rental opportunities at a level that

[41:23] um families and members of our workforce

[41:25] and seniors can afford. Um uh

[41:28] multi-generational housing. I would love

[41:30] to see, you know, um a community

[41:34] integrate, you know, a multif family

[41:35] community so that it's all integrated

[41:38] together, but that as c uh councelor

[41:40] Grymer said, um, you know, serve seniors

[41:44] because that would also if seniors could

[41:47] move to, um, you know, a kind of village

[41:50] that would might be built at Hampshire,

[41:53] that would also free up housing for uh,

[41:56] younger the next generation. Um,

[41:59] recreation and conservation would be the

[42:01] second. Um, Hampshire's recreational

[42:05] facilities really what provided a hub

[42:08] for residents all over Amherst went

[42:11] there for swimming, for pickle ball, for

[42:14] tennis and people came from outside the

[42:16] community and I would love to see it

[42:18] continue to be a center for recreation

[42:21] and conservation and small businesses.

[42:24] So as much as it could if and it would

[42:27] take it would happen over time but if it

[42:30] could be have a village feel with

[42:33] housing, recreation, small businesses so

[42:36] that residents who live there didn't

[42:38] have to travel far for those amenities

[42:41] and it would also bring residents from

[42:43] surrounding towns and other

[42:45] neighborhoods in Ammerst. Thanks.

[42:47] >> Thank you. I'm next on the list. Um,

[42:50] it'll sound very familiar, but housing

[42:52] of all types, but at attainable prices,

[42:55] but I would like a focus particularly on

[42:57] town homes and twins or

[43:00] duplexes, if you call them that. I grew

[43:02] up in a twin that can be owned without

[43:04] needing condos. So I think that requires

[43:07] um zero lot line developments and stuff

[43:09] like that um to be able to do that way

[43:13] um so that you can create that

[43:15] attainable workforce housing that could

[43:17] be more than just rental village center

[43:20] amenities within the area but also

[43:23] walkable to the area. So I don't want a

[43:25] housing silo like suburbs tend to be. Um

[43:29] create a density to support that too. Um

[43:32] and then revenue generation. Councelor

[43:35] McCloud.

[43:37] >> Uh thank you Mandy. Thank you to the

[43:39] presenters. Uh saw your presentation the

[43:43] previous month. Uh it was very

[43:45] informative. The charts that you've

[43:47] generated are extremely useful uh for

[43:51] I'm sure everyone who's looking at this

[43:53] now and in the future. uh

[43:55] [clears throat] my comments in terms of

[43:57] goals really need to be taken under the

[44:00] understanding that we don't completely

[44:03] control the fate of what's going to

[44:04] happen. Uh so I I would say zoning to

[44:10] uh increase tax revenue and uh influence

[44:14] positively the financial situation of

[44:16] the town meaning tax revenue from

[44:19] varying options that are there but also

[44:22] to recognize uh infrastructure expenses

[44:25] uh whether the town has them or they may

[44:27] go to the developers. I'd like to

[44:30] minimize it on the town and also

[44:32] recognizing the value of the uh existing

[44:35] buildings uh if they financially would

[44:38] benefit the town meaning build versus

[44:42] have something that already exists. So I

[44:44] wrap that all together uh with the

[44:46] underlying on tax revenue. Uh I would

[44:49] say [clears throat] mixed housing for a

[44:51] variety of uh uses including uh senior

[44:54] housing and workforce housing and

[44:55] affordable housing. uh preservation of

[44:58] sensitive areas. Um

[45:02] three is too few and I'd say we need to

[45:04] listen to the community members as well

[45:06] uh because we're 13. This is new to a

[45:08] lot of folks and I'm sure there's more

[45:10] than three goals that uh we all agree

[45:13] with. But thank you for what you're

[45:15] doing and thank you Mandy for holding

[45:16] this session.

[45:17] >> Thank you councelor Shane.

[45:20] A little unfair to come last because

[45:23] people have covered almost everything.

[45:25] So I I'll I'll try to group them a uh

[45:28] similarly but a little bit differently

[45:30] on the mix of housing. Um Lynn mentioned

[45:33] that we have an Applewood people have to

[45:35] move out of Applewood at at any time

[45:38] they can't independently take care of

[45:39] themselves. They have to leave Ammerst.

[45:42] And I've watched people in tears where

[45:44] one half of the couple was fine and the

[45:46] other wasn't. So, trying to think of and

[45:49] I'm not sure how you do this with

[45:51] zoning, but life care communities which

[45:53] allow you to move up. Um, and it's an

[45:57] ideal setting because it's so flat and

[46:01] you've already got things like a pool

[46:03] and other kinds of recreation. So, we

[46:05] could be a mecca for healthy seniors who

[46:08] also can be aging. So trying to think of

[46:11] when you do the mix that there's a

[46:13] larger piece of land because you need a

[46:15] bigger group to be able to have that.

[46:17] We've got one down in Lumis if you go

[46:19] down to South Aly. Uh secondly, and

[46:22] everyone has mentioned this, but we have

[46:24] a unique set of community resources that

[46:27] are used by the community that can be

[46:29] used by the next community. The pool,

[46:33] the the main um campus center, the

[46:36] indoor tennis courts, the outdoor tennis

[46:38] courts. This is so

[46:41] uh unique for already there. If you

[46:45] think of clusters of housing and what

[46:48] Pam originally said of housing

[46:50] clustered, so they have some green

[46:52] space. So you're walking across green

[46:54] space. The roadways already connect you

[46:56] everywhere you want to go. So trying to

[46:58] take advantage of what is there to think

[47:01] through it. And then last, you already

[47:04] had it in that top piece, but flexible

[47:06] ownership that some of this could be

[47:08] rent. A lot of it could be rent, but

[47:11] condos, town houses, purd where uh the

[47:15] little plots of land are co-owned and

[47:17] maintained. So, how you u it's not clear

[47:21] to me how you do that when you're doing

[47:23] the 40 or the others, you know, uh make

[47:26] sure it's allowed, but also think of it.

[47:28] And then the last point I want to make

[47:30] because we the preservation of scarce

[47:33] resources or

[47:35] uh there's huge amount of acreage that

[47:38] we're not talking about and that's all

[47:40] around it. I wouldn't try to take this

[47:42] 200 and do more with that but really

[47:45] think of where all surrounding with all

[47:47] the rivers you talked about their trail

[47:49] systems. She can walk endlessly

[47:52] to behind and out of Hampshire where

[47:55] your feet get really wet but there are

[47:57] trails and you know it's it's all

[47:59] walkable. Um and trying to say that is

[48:01] there so we don't have to recreate that.

[48:04] So let's take the developable parts and

[48:06] make the best use of them.

[48:08] >> Thank you. I'm going to pass it off to

[48:10] the consultants now. We have finished

[48:12] all 13 counselors on the round robin.

[48:14] So, it's uh open Mike to you to ask any

[48:18] follow-up questions and we'll from now

[48:21] on for this question, we'll deal with

[48:23] hands raised for any follow-up questions

[48:25] unless they have specific questions for

[48:27] specific counselors.

[48:32] » I didn't have any follow-up questions. I

[48:34] did just want to comment on one thing

[48:36] that I heard multiple times is this idea

[48:39] of flexibility and also of ownership.

[48:42] And some of the best housing work that's

[48:44] being done in the community, being done

[48:47] in the in the the country right now, um,

[48:51] is really kind of throwing the book out

[48:54] on a lot of

[48:56] the requirements related to lot

[49:00] frontage, lot position, lot dimension.

[49:03] and recognizing that one of the fastest

[49:07] ways to finance

[49:10] housing is small housing on small lots.

[49:15] Some of these can be landlocked that

[49:18] just and and they're smaller than you

[49:19] ever thought they would be. And it's

[49:22] counterintuitive for us who have just,

[49:24] you know, we've spent all of our years,

[49:26] all of our lives seeing people with a

[49:28] yard and a driveway and the frontage.

[49:31] Um, and it'll be important for us to

[49:33] think outside the box on some of those

[49:35] things where we're talking about really

[49:38] small lots, um, really small, sometimes

[49:41] non-existent frontage for the purposes

[49:43] of of creating a path to quick financing

[49:47] and home ownership and, you know, stuff

[49:50] that's financially viable. So,

[49:53] >> thank you. Any counselors want to add

[49:55] any other thoughts on anything that's

[49:57] been said or any other brainstorming

[49:59] ideas on priorities or goals? We'll

[50:03] start with councelor Shane.

[50:08] » It I don't quite fit the category you

[50:10] did, but I don't completely understand.

[50:13] So maybe in in the comments you make

[50:15] later um I I know what a 40 or overlay

[50:20] is or can be and then a village creating

[50:23] a village. Um and and trying to think of

[50:27] does that it's a question. Do you

[50:30] reszone the entire area? Do you resone

[50:33] parcels of it? Um do you say there's

[50:36] continuous in this area and that area or

[50:39] is is it a giant over

[50:44] literally envisioning little houses

[50:47] here, tall buildings there, senior. So,

[50:50] I don't quite understand what the zoning

[50:53] lever is that allows that diversity

[50:57] without saying we're in charge of

[51:00] selling the lots, which we're not,

[51:02] >> right? And so we haven't chosen our

[51:04] zoning lever and we'll probably have

[51:06] multiple levers um because again we have

[51:08] to have that flexibility and you know I

[51:11] think where we are now is where you've

[51:13] seen in terms of our case study research

[51:16] and you know I've written a lot of

[51:18] zoning and so I'm I'm I can get into the

[51:20] weeds really quickly on this stuff and won't put you all to sleep right now

[51:23] but it's you know this idea of a master

[51:26] plan is definitely some a tool that has

[51:28] to be on the tape if somebody is going

[51:30] to come forward and purchase just a very

[51:33] large piece of land and you have

[51:36] aspirations and the developer has

[51:38] aspirations about creating something

[51:40] that is an experience, a destination, a

[51:43] neighborhood, a cohesive working

[51:45] functioning community. Um, then a master

[51:48] plan is an example of something that has

[51:50] to happen. So that sort of sets the

[51:53] stage for how a site will be

[51:55] conceptually laid out over time. And

[51:58] then once the engineers and the

[52:00] designers really get into it, that's

[52:03] when you sort of go to that second

[52:04] level. So that's why you've seen a lot

[52:06] of communities sort of use the, you

[52:08] know, at a 10,000 foot level, they

[52:10] master plan out, they permit that by

[52:12] special permit, and then when somebody

[52:14] wants to come in and develop that

[52:16] neighborhood and this particular area,

[52:18] then the engineers and the designers

[52:20] really come in and get it done, the

[52:21] storm water, the wastewater, all of

[52:22] those things. And that goes through a

[52:24] site plan review process. That's not

[52:26] necessarily the track we'll take, but

[52:28] that's what we've seen in other

[52:30] communities where you've got that 10,000

[52:32] foot look. This this is the kind of

[52:34] community that we want. This looks like

[52:36] a really great concept. This will be

[52:38] beautiful in 15 years. Um, but we are

[52:41] going to build it three, four, five,

[52:43] seven years at a time and permit this

[52:46] along the way with a different process.

[52:50] Jeff,

[52:51] >> I'm not sure that I definitely not

[52:54] trying to belabor the point, but I think

[52:55] the question is a really good one that

[52:57] the councelor asked. I think we're not

[52:59] there yet. I think we wanted to touch

[53:00] base with the council and then we go

[53:01] through the public process. But I think

[53:02] that's one of the key questions that we

[53:04] have and I think that was some of the

[53:06] sentiment that we heard with the

[53:07] planning board was if our zoning that we

[53:10] have worked with doesn't work, we should

[53:13] try something new. And I think we might

[53:14] have such a unique opportunity where we

[53:16] will probably need to try something new

[53:18] or at least continue to explore how best

[53:21] we could get the results that it sounds

[53:22] like people are pretty pretty

[53:24] consistently kind of wanting the results

[53:26] and we have to make sure that we have

[53:28] the zoning tools. That's what this boils

[53:29] down to is our control is going to be

[53:31] through zoning. So that's going to be

[53:33] the task over the next several months is

[53:34] to figure that part out. And then the

[53:36] other thing I just wanted to say because

[53:37] it relates to understanding what we do

[53:40] have control over. And so with regard to

[53:43] reusing existing buildings, I think it's

[53:45] a fantastic concept, our ability through

[53:49] zoning will be primarily to make it as

[53:52] easy as possible to reuse buildings for

[53:55] whatever the best use is for. And I

[53:58] think we can encourage that. That's how

[53:59] you do it is you encourage it by making

[54:01] it super easy. But there are going to be

[54:03] some financial implications of that. And

[54:06] it's not the town's buildings. So

[54:09] there's this evaluation that we

[54:11] understand that the college is likely to

[54:13] try to pursue some level of assessment

[54:16] of the buildings to understand their

[54:17] current condition and the potential

[54:19] reusability, but it's not something that

[54:21] we have the control over. So if you

[54:23] think Wildwood for example, that's the

[54:25] town's building and we're going to

[54:26] investigate that and we're going to

[54:27] determine its reusability. But here our

[54:30] tool is going to be through zoning. So

[54:32] the idea of making it flexible possibly

[54:33] without a lot without requiring it to be

[54:35] its own parcel, you know, minimizing

[54:37] parking requirements. We're going to

[54:39] have to really think creatively to

[54:41] incentivize the reuse and allow it to

[54:43] happen through zoning. So there's just

[54:44] something there that we're going to

[54:45] continue to flesh out as we move

[54:46] forward. But I just wanted to kind of

[54:48] make that point because it was a good

[54:49] one.

[54:50] >> Thank you. Um my hands up next. So, I

[54:53] like the idea of that master plan

[54:55] development and then sort of things

[54:59] underneath and and I love the idea of

[55:02] creative use of zoning whether that be

[55:04] look it looks completely different from

[55:06] what our our current zoning bylaw looks

[55:08] like or anything because I think we need

[55:10] creativity there. Um,

[55:13] and the other thing I would add to my my

[55:17] three goals there was was don't be

[55:19] afraid of high density. um is is is one

[55:23] of my goals. So, Council Rooney,

[55:28] » thank you. Uh one of the items that was

[55:30] also on my list is uh protection and

[55:33] encouragement of the arts and culture of

[55:36] the area. And I'm not sure that that's

[55:38] uh handled through zoning, but uh that

[55:41] would involve protection of access for

[55:44] the existing cultural entities there and perhaps taking advantage of again

[55:51] talking about facilities, taking in

[55:53] advantage of some of the um the main

[55:56] facilities on the campus for something

[55:58] like conference center. UMass has not

[56:02] devel

[56:04] I think

[56:06] uh community.

[56:10] Thank you.

[56:11] >> Could you say that again? You broke up

[56:12] while you were saying your last bit

[56:14] about conference centers.

[56:17] >> Uh utilization of existing some of the

[56:20] existing buildings for conference

[56:23] center. UMass has not yet developed one

[56:26] and it's it's maybe on the books, but

[56:29] here's a a really uh imminent

[56:32] opportunity for perhaps um conference

[56:35] center, not necessarily controlled by

[56:37] zoning, but perhaps perhaps at Kennedy.

[56:41] >> Thank you. Um Councelor McCloud.

[56:46] >> Uh thank you, Mandy. Um, [clears throat]

[56:49] I watched part of the um, presentation

[56:52] from the other week again today and I

[56:54] put an asterisk as I heard you reference

[56:59] uh, sewage usage and getting close to

[57:03] limits as a town and that overall the

[57:08] infrastructure is good. It's, you know,

[57:10] an ideal situation for the most part.

[57:13] But when I heard you referencing getting

[57:15] close to the limits of the town

[57:16] infrastructure, it prompted me to say

[57:19] what types of expenses might

[57:23] be incurred by the town that might not

[57:25] be anticipated. And specifically,

[57:29] how close are we to our sewage limited

[57:32] building? Lots goes in here. Is it on

[57:34] the town or you know do we just

[57:38] I would assume it's a development uh

[57:41] expense.

[57:42] >> Yes, those usually are development

[57:44] expense. Um especially with the with the

[57:47] large um site type of investment that

[57:50] you see. Uh can't guarantee that. Um the

[57:53] most important thing is to work out an

[57:55] arrangement that is beneficial to the

[57:57] town. Right? You don't want it to be

[57:59] financially detrimental to the town. and

[58:02] any good developer is going to

[58:03] understand that coming to the table. Um

[58:05] I think in terms of the current

[58:06] infrastructure, there's two limitations

[58:09] that you often talk about with a sewage

[58:11] system. One is the physical limits of

[58:14] the system which is not something that

[58:16] is an issue at this point. There's also

[58:18] the permit limitations um where you're

[58:21] actually permitted to discharge. And so

[58:23] that's a administrative permit thing.

[58:26] Both of those will have to be looked at

[58:28] over time, but there's nothing right now

[58:31] that would I mean the the college is

[58:34] using sewer capacity, right? So you

[58:35] think about the amount of flow that

[58:37] they're generating now. So there is an

[58:40] allocation that's already there that can

[58:42] accommodate redevelopment going forward.

[58:44] So it's just a question of incrementally

[58:46] managing that over time.

[58:47] >> Uh thank you. But you were talking about

[58:49] townwide

[58:51] usage limits, not college specific use,

[58:54] area specific usage limits. Correct?

[58:56] >> Yeah, they all go to this. Yeah, that

[58:57] one spot

[58:58] >> and and that question and that is going

[59:00] to be something that will be

[59:02] investigated later on during this

[59:03] process um as we collect questions from

[59:07] the public and and the counselors. I did

[59:10] have a follow-up question if that's okay

[59:12] since I'm um I looked at the zoning maps

[59:16] that you generated uh and quite helpful.

[59:19] I saw some zoning that was RLD along

[59:22] with FC and could someone explain to me

[59:26] how that works in terms of overlay

[59:28] because there's two different zones

[59:30] there. I assume they both apply but is

[59:32] one predominant and the second was added

[59:34] later.

[59:36] >> Jeff? Yeah, I think it's an evol for the

[59:40] mic, please.

[59:41] >> Yeah, we want to be we wanted to be

[59:43] sensitive not to try to answer every

[59:44] question that we get right now tonight

[59:46] because there there's some that are

[59:47] going to be difficult to explain. The

[59:49] residential low density was one of the

[59:51] original zoning districts that the town

[59:53] has. It's creates lot sizes of a certain

[59:55] type. It's it's low density and then the

[59:58] farmland conservation was overlaid over

[1:00:00] that at some period and we don't I don't

[1:00:02] know the date of that. So it is part of

[1:00:04] the discussion that we will have moving

[1:00:06] forward based on your input, based on

[1:00:07] the community input, we need to decide

[1:00:09] whether we're talking about changing

[1:00:10] that or not and what it does and what it

[1:00:12] doesn't do. So that's a future

[1:00:14] consideration. And the other thing I

[1:00:16] just want to say about infrastructure

[1:00:17] and I know maybe we're drifting into the

[1:00:18] next set of questions which are probably

[1:00:20] concerns.

[1:00:21] >> Um you know it's not it should not be

[1:00:22] lost on this group that if this were to

[1:00:25] be developed over a period of time there

[1:00:27] are new rate payers and that is going to

[1:00:30] be helpful to the town. So while there

[1:00:33] might be some additional usage, there

[1:00:36] will also be new rateayers um much much

[1:00:39] more than what is being paid now by the

[1:00:41] college. So those are going to be

[1:00:43] helpful for future wastewater

[1:00:45] improvement uh that might be necessary.

[1:00:47] So just be mindful that there will be

[1:00:49] additional rateayers contributing to

[1:00:51] improvements which is a benefit in

[1:00:53] addition to potential tax revenue. So we

[1:00:55] are we have that fully developed you

[1:00:57] know scope with the U3 adviserss and

[1:00:59] they will be talking about tax revenue

[1:01:02] um generation and impacts uh school

[1:01:05] enrollment and more clarity on the

[1:01:07] actual infrastructure cost. So that's

[1:01:10] coming up before we get to January where

[1:01:13] they haven't started that evaluation

[1:01:14] yet.

[1:01:15] >> Yep. Thank you. We're gonna move on to

[1:01:16] councelor Tub.

[1:01:19] >> Um thank you. Yeah, this I guess is a

[1:01:21] question I agree with councelor Hannicki

[1:01:23] in terms of having a master plan um you

[1:01:27] know and a so a vision that you know we

[1:01:30] would like to see whoever is developing

[1:01:32] or purchases that [clears throat] land

[1:01:35] to work towards and I guess when you

[1:01:38] said you know this may happen you know

[1:01:40] in fiveyear increments it may be 20

[1:01:42] years till if we if there is a master

[1:01:44] plan it's fully built out but is there

[1:01:48] anything we

[1:01:50] do I mean or or is there a concern that

[1:01:53] you know a few houses will get built and

[1:01:55] then nothing else will happen for a long

[1:01:58] time or is there you know any way

[1:02:01] may I don't know if it's the zoning

[1:02:03] provides an incentive or it's just a

[1:02:05] matter if all the stars line up that you

[1:02:08] know if we if a master plan is developed

[1:02:10] that it is achievable and we can have

[1:02:13] some sort of timeline to try help make

[1:02:17] sure we get there.

[1:02:20] >> Excellent. Um, that's more of prompt

[1:02:23] two, but if if you want to provide

[1:02:27] answer or response to that, um, I just

[1:02:30] reminding people we're on the

[1:02:31] >> the 30 second answer is that's not

[1:02:33] really the purview of zoning. Um,

[1:02:35] developers are under tremendous pressure

[1:02:38] to develop. Um, so the idea that they

[1:02:41] would purchase an enormous swath of land

[1:02:43] and then build 40 homes and kind of sit

[1:02:46] on it for many many years, it it's not a

[1:02:50] good business model. Um, so you rely on

[1:02:53] that and you can rely on that. So I'll

[1:02:55] leave it at that.

[1:02:55] >> Thank you, Councelor Churchill.

[1:03:00] » Yeah, I mean we're talking about

[1:03:02] resoning and having zoning in place by

[1:03:04] January. And at the same time,

[1:03:06] Hampshire's gotten a loan that's taken

[1:03:08] some of the pressure off their them to

[1:03:09] sell, but they're looking at they're

[1:03:12] still shopping the the land around. And

[1:03:14] I'm I'm just wondering

[1:03:17] what how are those two things related?

[1:03:19] Are are we looking to reszone be to to

[1:03:23] help shape what happens when they sell

[1:03:25] it? Or if we reszone after they sell it,

[1:03:29] that will shape what I mean, I guess, if

[1:03:31] I'm a developer, I'd like to know what

[1:03:33] the zoning is going to be.

[1:03:34] But how how we don't have control over

[1:03:37] what Hampshire College does with the

[1:03:39] land, but we're trying to put zoning in

[1:03:41] place and those things are sort of

[1:03:42] happening in parallel. So, how does that

[1:03:44] work?

[1:03:45] >> We're getting a little more into the

[1:03:47] questions, but if there's a quick

[1:03:48] answer, go for it, Jeff.

[1:03:51] [laughter]

[1:03:54] » It's a great question. We think that

[1:03:55] we're being proactive and looking at the

[1:03:59] zoning that we know doesn't accommodate

[1:04:01] very many uses. So, we're we're actively

[1:04:04] engaged in this and I think that's our

[1:04:06] process and that's our intent is to do

[1:04:08] this as quickly as is reasonable. The

[1:04:10] only thing I did actually want to

[1:04:12] mention is we're not seeking to have

[1:04:13] zoning in place by January. We're having

[1:04:15] the the proposed zoning ready to submit

[1:04:19] to town council which then starts the

[1:04:21] process. So, you know, being realistic,

[1:04:23] we're we're still expecting several

[1:04:25] months after January for zoning to

[1:04:27] potentially be adopted, but that's our

[1:04:29] target is to have the the proposal ready

[1:04:31] for January. We're doing this quickly to

[1:04:34] be efficient and to be ready. We we'd

[1:04:37] rather be doing this before before we

[1:04:39] know what's happening because once if if

[1:04:42] we didn't do anything and we waited um

[1:04:44] we're not sure that that's the best

[1:04:45] outcome for the town and so that's why

[1:04:47] we're we're being active right now.

[1:04:50] >> Thank you. I see. No other hands. Um,

[1:04:52] Nate or Peter, are there any

[1:04:54] clarification questions you'd like to

[1:04:55] ask? And then I'll give the counselors

[1:04:57] one more quick shot if they have

[1:04:59] anything to say on goals or priorities.

[1:05:02] No. Counselors, any last

[1:05:07] quick goals or priorities that haven't

[1:05:09] been mentioned or that you feel you need

[1:05:12] to expound on quickly or expand on

[1:05:15] quickly? Andy, your hand is still up.

[1:05:18] No. Okay.

[1:05:22] We will move on then. Um the next one is

[1:05:25] the next prompt is what are your

[1:05:27] greatest concerns or questions about the

[1:05:29] campus's future? As you saw, it's hard

[1:05:32] to hear about and state goals and

[1:05:34] priorities without also having questions

[1:05:36] and concerns. So, we moved a little bit

[1:05:39] into that towards the end. Um again, a

[1:05:41] random order and it is a different

[1:05:43] random order. So, not everyone is always

[1:05:45] at the end or the beginning. [laughter]

[1:05:47] I I I thought of that. So um

[1:05:51] again quick round robin on this one. Um

[1:05:54] we start with councelor brevik.

[1:05:58] » Point of clarification. Are they

[1:06:00] answering each qu should we ask a

[1:06:02] question wait for an answer or we are

[1:06:05] >> we we are collecting after all 13 I will

[1:06:08] go back to the consultants to see if

[1:06:10] there's any they would like to address

[1:06:12] or

[1:06:12] >> Got it. Sorry if you said that.

[1:06:14] >> No no no I didn't. So thank you for

[1:06:15] asking that clarification. Um,

[1:06:17] [laughter]

[1:06:18] Council Breick.

[1:06:20] >> Okay. So, my main question was answered

[1:06:22] in that little last round that we just

[1:06:23] had, but is really that question about

[1:06:26] revenue generation as obviously that is

[1:06:28] such a primary goal for us on the

[1:06:30] council,

[1:06:32] how it what what it will look like to

[1:06:34] estimate revenue generation as part of

[1:06:37] this process. I'm just curious since it

[1:06:39] obviously depends so much on the

[1:06:42] specific development and the developer

[1:06:44] and the market and so many different

[1:06:46] factors. So I'm I'm just cur curious

[1:06:49] about the process for estimating revenue

[1:06:52] generation as part as part of the master

[1:06:55] plan. Um, and then I had another

[1:06:57] question on um, the focus groups and the

[1:07:02] community engagement process and just

[1:07:03] thinking about equity and diversity and

[1:07:06] how you plan to ensure that you're

[1:07:08] getting diverse perspectives and hearing

[1:07:11] from lots of different types of

[1:07:13] stakeholders in that process.

[1:07:15] >> Thank you, Councelor Greimer.

[1:07:19] >> Um, my concerns are the following.

[1:07:21] There's some trends that are happening

[1:07:24] that I think even our existing plans

[1:07:27] don't quite take into consideration and

[1:07:29] some of these unfortunately have been

[1:07:31] brought on by the present administration

[1:07:32] in Washington. For example, UMass

[1:07:35] Ammerst has accepted 200 less graduate

[1:07:38] students because their research dollars

[1:07:41] are down by 10%. And recovering from

[1:07:44] that isn't going to happen overnight and

[1:07:46] it won't happen with the midterm

[1:07:48] elections. So there's things happening

[1:07:51] in town that are affecting the

[1:07:54] population that in fact comes to this

[1:07:56] town. Another one is in general western

[1:08:00] Mass is not growing. In fact, it's

[1:08:02] losing population. The town the state of

[1:08:06] Massachusetts will probably lose a

[1:08:08] congressional seat in this in the next

[1:08:10] round.

[1:08:11] And you know, Ammerst is attractive, but

[1:08:14] are we can we really buck the trend of

[1:08:17] what's going on with our region in

[1:08:19] general?

[1:08:20] And when you drive up and down our

[1:08:22] streets, you see a lot of rentals still

[1:08:25] available right now. And they're the

[1:08:27] older homes, frankly, that aren't as

[1:08:30] attractive to live in. So besides that,

[1:08:34] absolutely no data centers.

[1:08:38] Uh, councelor Tob.

[1:08:44] » Um,

[1:08:45] yeah. Well, my concern um is also with

[1:08:49] our declining population. Um, I know I

[1:08:54] think it was in the presentation that

[1:08:55] may have been given to the planning

[1:08:56] board. I listen uh by the consultants um

[1:08:59] last week. I listened to that and um

[1:09:03] there there was discussion and of

[1:09:07] you know of doing a study to really see

[1:09:09] what the need for housing is here. I

[1:09:11] mean, we know that there are people that

[1:09:14] want to live in Amherst that aren't able

[1:09:17] to, but um so my question would be, what

[1:09:21] kind of investigation is being done to

[1:09:25] really get a handle on what the demand

[1:09:27] for different kinds of housing is?

[1:09:30] Because I would think that even

[1:09:32] potential developers that would be

[1:09:34] purchasing the land are probably doing

[1:09:36] that investigation as well. And then my

[1:09:39] question again about you know what um

[1:09:42] which is why I think senior housing is

[1:09:45] something that there is a demand for

[1:09:48] because our population in Amorest is

[1:09:50] aging and a lot of us would like to stay

[1:09:53] here as we may downsize from our homes.

[1:09:58] >> That's my question.

[1:09:59] >> Thank you councelor Walker.

[1:10:02] >> Uh thank you. And this is to share some

[1:10:04] of the concerns we have correct?

[1:10:06] >> Yes. Concerns and questions. Um

[1:10:09] I think I mean overall my concern is the

[1:10:13] general ownership um and who will come

[1:10:16] forward to purchase

[1:10:18] the the land and facilities and whether

[1:10:21] or not there that there will be multiple

[1:10:23] buyers and if that will make this

[1:10:26] process uh more challenging for us.

[1:10:29] um and whether or not our zoning

[1:10:32] practices will actually be able to guide

[1:10:34] this process or if we'll end up having

[1:10:36] to be reactive with our zoning. Um

[1:10:39] that's a concern for me. Um, I'm also

[1:10:42] just concerned about the benefit to the

[1:10:45] overall town and and local use and how

[1:10:48] our residents will be able to util

[1:10:49] utilize this space, but also hoping that

[1:10:53] current residents who are either cost

[1:10:55] burdened or just looking for other

[1:10:57] housing opportunities will have priority

[1:11:00] access um to whatever development if

[1:11:03] there is housing development here. Um

[1:11:05] and then also just looking at measuring

[1:11:07] and predicting revenue generation.

[1:11:12] >> Thank you. Councelor Delin Goth here.

[1:11:15] >> This round robin thing is exciting.

[1:11:17] Never know. Um

[1:11:20] >> is your mic on?

[1:11:21] >> It it is. Okay. I know. I

[1:11:24] um if you can't hear me, tell me. So, I

[1:11:29] have concerns about single ownership and

[1:11:31] when we think about zoning and I know

[1:11:33] again that this is a concern that is

[1:11:35] likely to be realized. Um, but I I have

[1:11:38] concerns about one developer, one

[1:11:40] organization purchasing the entire

[1:11:41] property. Um, which is why when I'm

[1:11:43] thinking about the zoning, I like the

[1:11:45] idea of like the idea of zoning pieces

[1:11:48] of it, uh, agricultural pieces of it,

[1:11:51] uh, you know, uh, residential things

[1:11:53] like that versus the entire thing in one

[1:11:56] area or, yeah, however we can encourage

[1:11:59] multiple folks coming in, I think

[1:12:01] supports that vision of more of a

[1:12:03] community uh, and and different types of

[1:12:06] entities entering that space. Um I am

[1:12:09] and with that I am concerned with the

[1:12:13] general exploitation of broad brush

[1:12:14] zoning. So if we think about making it

[1:12:16] too vague, we know that people are going

[1:12:18] to find loopholes. We know that people

[1:12:20] are going to um I mean capitalism

[1:12:22] exists, right? So how do we make sure

[1:12:24] that we're we're not

[1:12:27] that we're encouraging the use of this

[1:12:29] property in a way that supports our tax

[1:12:31] base without making it so broad that

[1:12:33] we're going to end up with something we

[1:12:35] really are afraid of going. Um that's

[1:12:37] not necessarily the most helpful framing

[1:12:39] for you all, but that is my concern. Um

[1:12:42] and then I I know in the prior

[1:12:44] conversation, Jeeoff, you said this

[1:12:45] wasn't a concern to you um when when

[1:12:48] asked about data centers. And I know

[1:12:49] that this is kind of the hot topic

[1:12:51] generally, but data centers are one

[1:12:53] example of this kind of largecale

[1:12:56] development coming in. And so when I

[1:12:57] think about largecale anything, um I I I

[1:13:00] keep pushing the idea of multiple

[1:13:02] different entities because the idea of

[1:13:04] one thing taking over a huge part of

[1:13:06] that land concerns.

[1:13:09] >> Thank you. Um Councelor Kennel Martin.

[1:13:14] » Yeah. Um, I mean, I think my biggest

[1:13:16] concern, and I I think I might have I

[1:13:18] did bring this up at an, um, previous

[1:13:20] [clears throat] meeting, was just, um,

[1:13:22] how can you have a process that's really

[1:13:24] inclusive and participatory when we're

[1:13:26] on such a tight timeline? And I think

[1:13:29] that, you know, you can, you know, you

[1:13:31] can certainly have a virtual session

[1:13:32] and, you know, people who come to it are

[1:13:34] going to be the people who tend to come

[1:13:35] to things because they're in the know

[1:13:36] and they're in the loop and they get the

[1:13:38] emails and there's so many parts of our

[1:13:40] community where that just doesn't cut

[1:13:42] it. And we want to make sure that we're

[1:13:44] getting input on how to use this

[1:13:45] property from people um really a

[1:13:47] cross-section of the community, you

[1:13:49] know, including different races,

[1:13:50] different ages, different income levels,

[1:13:54] um you know, different uh just, you

[1:13:56] know, fully representing the diversity

[1:13:57] of Ammerst. And so, um I'm I'm concerned

[1:14:01] if we don't have that level of

[1:14:03] participation that whatever we do come

[1:14:06] up with won't be something that the

[1:14:07] community can support and that can get

[1:14:09] us in trouble down the line. So, um I am

[1:14:12] really concerned um about the process

[1:14:14] piece and you know I think that's really

[1:14:16] my my main concern.

[1:14:20] >> Thank you councelor Shane.

[1:14:24] I uh I'll start with where uh Andy

[1:14:27] Churchill ended on goals on a uh that

[1:14:31] we've got a Hampshire has to move on

[1:14:33] this and we haven't reszoned or we

[1:14:36] haven't come up with what we want to

[1:14:38] reszone and will we be um too late to

[1:14:43] influence what evolves you know if they

[1:14:46] start selling off pieces for example and

[1:14:49] I realize they they've got the challenge

[1:14:51] if it's only zoned for some kind things

[1:14:53] so they're coming for an application.

[1:14:55] So, where the tennis courts, indoor

[1:14:57] tennis courts are are on dry land, it's

[1:14:59] right on Bay Road, great piece of land.

[1:15:02] Will that just disappear while we're

[1:15:04] thinking of what else could happen? So

[1:15:06] it's sort of a a timing issue and and

[1:15:10] the the concern about is it one large

[1:15:14] developer. So if someone came in and

[1:15:16] they um

[1:15:19] one large non-taxable

[1:15:22] entity came in with a lot of money. Um

[1:15:26] do can we zone in a way that it can't be

[1:15:29] reszoned to be all non-t taxable? And

[1:15:32] just so everyone knows, Applewood pays

[1:15:34] taxes, so not all nonprofits are not

[1:15:37] taxable. Um, so I am I am concerned that

[1:15:40] one developer eats up all of it and we

[1:15:43] don't have this opportunity to think of

[1:15:46] cluster cluster development. So honest

[1:15:49] question of should we do it in p some

[1:15:52] pieces. So say some of this is a pur

[1:15:54] these are cluster housing. This is

[1:15:57] senior but senior continuous living. Um,

[1:16:01] so I'll I'll leave it with how do we

[1:16:04] drive the mix that we might want that I

[1:16:06] don't feel like zoning is the is when we don't have ownership is is

[1:16:13] enough of a level and then I just want

[1:16:14] to do when you do the revenue estimates

[1:16:18] try to do net. So if you bring in a huge

[1:16:23] number of families with children, what's

[1:16:26] the school capacity that we have? Do we

[1:16:29] need to build a school? Seniors, active

[1:16:32] seniors, 50 plus. It's not just to move

[1:16:34] people out of their houses. Emmeris is

[1:16:36] an amazing place to retire to. And we

[1:16:40] could be a mecca for active seniors

[1:16:42] because we've got the other colleges and

[1:16:45] universities here. Um my mother was

[1:16:47] advertising in New Jersey. she moved up

[1:16:50] and she was telling all her friends you

[1:16:51] need to move up here and there and they

[1:16:53] were active when I'm saying 15 and plus

[1:16:55] so so just trying to think of you know a

[1:16:58] vibrant community as well but I'm not

[1:17:00] the big concern I have is that we don't

[1:17:03] quite have the levers to get us what we

[1:17:05] want and we'll get to your the last your

[1:17:08] worst worries the 20 years ago from now

[1:17:11] we'll look at what our vision was and

[1:17:14] what did we get but but trying to think

[1:17:16] of what is the best way so is it pieces

[1:17:18] is if we think of zoning that's more

[1:17:21] likely to encourage what we want rather

[1:17:24] than just a master plan but very

[1:17:26] specific pieces.

[1:17:28] >> Thank you, Council Ryan.

[1:17:32] » So, three things. One, I worry about the

[1:17:35] market. Um, I think there's a general

[1:17:38] consensus when I'm hearing from my

[1:17:39] colleagues of workforce housing, starter

[1:17:42] homes, affordable housing.

[1:17:45] Does anyone out there want to build what

[1:17:47] we want? I I wonder if there's a market.

[1:17:49] Um, and that's nothing I think that's

[1:17:51] just a fear I have that that there's no

[1:17:53] market. There's this is is this

[1:17:55] financially viable? Um, is one thing I'm

[1:17:57] concerned about. Second has to do with

[1:18:00] the the scenario that what if

[1:18:05] this simply remains largely uh non-t

[1:18:08] taxable. If it remains essentially still

[1:18:10] pretty much Hampshire College 2.0,

[1:18:13] what's our plan B? Is there a plan B? Is

[1:18:15] that like game over? Um, that's what I

[1:18:19] worry about concerns. And finally, I

[1:18:22] think what we're doing makes a lot of

[1:18:23] sense. I appreciate very much the work

[1:18:25] that our planning department and our

[1:18:28] consultants are doing, but I my other

[1:18:30] concern is the impact of this on all the

[1:18:32] other things that Japanese department

[1:18:34] are being asked to do. The town's other

[1:18:36] more, you know, pressing immediate

[1:18:38] concerns with planning and development.

[1:18:40] Um, I think it was mentioned earlier, we

[1:18:42] have an aging housing stock. A lot of

[1:18:44] those starter homes that were built in

[1:18:46] the 70s are now aging out and what can

[1:18:49] we as a town do to assist their owners?

[1:18:51] What can we do to address that? There

[1:18:53] are a number of issues. So what's the

[1:18:55] impact of focusing on this over the next

[1:18:57] four, five, six months on the very

[1:19:00] important work that our planning

[1:19:01] department is also doing in other areas?

[1:19:04] >> Thank you, Council Mloud.

[1:19:07] >> Uh thank you, Mandy. Uh concerns. Uh who

[1:19:11] buys it? that's if if it gets sold I

[1:19:15] who's who buys it and all the

[1:19:17] implications there associated with it um

[1:19:23] if if it get gets bought by developer uh

[1:19:28] or whoever what are the financial

[1:19:30] impacts to the town uh not just tax

[1:19:34] revenue but other expenses this kind of

[1:19:36] aligns with what uh Kathy was

[1:19:39] referencing in terms of net what what

[1:19:41] expenses might the town have affiliated

[1:19:43] with any form of development or

[1:19:45] otherwise? Uh, it's not relevant to our

[1:19:49] conversation, but I do have concerns for

[1:19:51] the existing Hampshire community. I

[1:19:53] can't help but think about the people

[1:19:56] who've lost their jobs, the students who

[1:19:58] have lost their um, college. I mean,

[1:20:03] it's awful. Uh, and we have to consider

[1:20:06] what we're considering, but

[1:20:09] and I don't know what we can do in that

[1:20:11] regard because the the talk clock is

[1:20:13] ticking and Hampshire has made its

[1:20:15] determinations, but yeah, I I have great

[1:20:19] uh uh concerns for the existing folks.

[1:20:22] It's uh it's a terrible shame. Um,

[1:20:27] other than that,

[1:20:29] probably nothing new than we've already

[1:20:30] discussed. I I may come up with

[1:20:32] something down the road. uh getting

[1:20:35] opinions from all the different members

[1:20:38] of the community that uh both councelor

[1:20:40] Breick and councelor Kan Mart

[1:20:42] referenced. I think it's very important

[1:20:45] in a quote unquote brainstorming

[1:20:48] process, which is what we're doing right

[1:20:50] now, that we seek to receive as many uh

[1:20:54] different thoughts and ideas as we can

[1:20:57] because you never know if there's

[1:20:58] somebody in the room metaphorically who

[1:21:01] uh stays silent. But that person could

[1:21:04] be uh you know just a brilliant or a

[1:21:08] great idea and we wouldn't know it if we

[1:21:11] didn't hear about it. So I would say

[1:21:13] reaching our net wide to collect ideas

[1:21:16] to filter through because uh we're only

[1:21:19] 13 or you know 20 folks here. Thank you.

[1:21:22] >> Thank you councelor Rooney.

[1:21:26] So um I think my concern is that in this

[1:21:30] time frame we have

[1:21:33] enough of a enough of a general layout a

[1:21:36] general master plan that somehow gives a

[1:21:40] sense of logical zones of development

[1:21:44] as you're analyzing the property. you

[1:21:46] see logical zones of development that in

[1:21:49] fact if Hampshire trustees were to um

[1:21:54] subdivide the property there would be

[1:21:56] some again some logical subdivision of

[1:21:59] that piece. So it might not go

[1:22:01] necessarily to one huge operator but it

[1:22:04] may be able to be parcled out. Um part

[1:22:07] of that subdivision is um separating out

[1:22:11] the roads so that those become

[1:22:14] essentially public roads and not uh

[1:22:17] private ways that exclude access to some

[1:22:20] of the pe the facilities that are there

[1:22:22] like Eric Carl and and Yiddish Book

[1:22:24] Center.

[1:22:26] >> Thank you.

[1:22:27] Councelor Churchill.

[1:22:33] I guess

[1:22:35] um one of my concerns is that nothing

[1:22:37] happens. Um either that we can't coales

[1:22:40] around a vision or we get tripped up

[1:22:43] because we're like oh we can't spend the

[1:22:45] money for infrastructure so we don't we let that be a barrier for us doing

[1:22:50] what needs what what would really be a

[1:22:52] benefit um if we could get past the

[1:22:55] inevitable barriers that we'll have to

[1:22:57] hop over. So, um, another concern would

[1:23:01] be that it would be sold to a non-t

[1:23:03] taxable educational or religious

[1:23:05] organization and so we wouldn't get any

[1:23:06] benefit out of it and we might not, um,

[1:23:09] be as happy with our new neighbors as we

[1:23:11] were were with our old ones. Um,

[1:23:14] and I guess um, the other is that I mean

[1:23:18] we've talked about whether you know the

[1:23:19] decisions going to be made for us and whether you know how how much

[1:23:23] control we have. So I I guess but I

[1:23:25] guess the other one would be that um

[1:23:29] you know I wouldn't want it just to be a

[1:23:31] sterile subdivision. I'd like it to be

[1:23:33] you know I would worry that that

[1:23:36] somebody comes in and does this lowest

[1:23:37] common denominator approach to you want

[1:23:40] housing here's housing and and then it's

[1:23:43] just kind of a dead subdivision. So

[1:23:45] that'd be a concern.

[1:23:47] >> Thank you councelor Lord.

[1:23:51] Um, thank you. Uh,

[1:23:54] some of these concerns may not be

[1:23:57] connected to zoning, but how much

[1:24:00] influence will the community really

[1:24:02] have, as have mentioned by a couple of

[1:24:04] my fellow counselors? Like, at what

[1:24:05] points can community input actually

[1:24:07] change the outcomes? How are we

[1:24:09] intentionally hearing from renters,

[1:24:11] low-income residents, black and brown

[1:24:13] residents, young people, elders, people

[1:24:15] with disabilities,

[1:24:17] um, and other residents who don't

[1:24:19] ordinarily, not saying those groups

[1:24:21] don't, but any residents who don't

[1:24:23] ordinarily participate in planning

[1:24:24] meetings. Um, who will actually benefit

[1:24:27] from redevelopment?

[1:24:29] I know we don't have a lot of control

[1:24:30] over some of these things. Um will

[1:24:33] whoever buys or

[1:24:37] singular or multiple are they planning

[1:24:40] for a community is just about

[1:24:42] development

[1:24:43] we can't say what is your intention but

[1:24:45] I don't know what maybe we can like what

[1:24:46] commitments can Ammeris make enforceable

[1:24:49] through zoning and permitting

[1:24:51] conservation restrictions and then this

[1:24:54] might be for the next question but it

[1:24:56] also it connect because what are we in

[1:24:59] danger of losing that we can never get

[1:25:00] back. Hampshire

[1:25:03] is a legacy that maybe could be

[1:25:04] preserved in one of the facets, one of

[1:25:07] the parcels, one of the present, the

[1:25:09] culture,

[1:25:11] the arts. Yeah, that's so that might be

[1:25:14] the next question, but that's also

[1:25:15] present in the what are we at risk of

[1:25:18] losing that we can't get back? And then

[1:25:20] of course the financial impact. And I'm

[1:25:21] not repeating some of the things other

[1:25:23] people said. Thank you.

[1:25:24] >> Thank you. Um my turn is next. And some

[1:25:28] of my concerns are sort of what what

[1:25:31] councelor Ryan mentioned about the

[1:25:32] market. If whatever our master plan is

[1:25:35] or whatever we're doing, will it get

[1:25:37] built? You know, we've got the declining

[1:25:39] population. What do we need to do to

[1:25:41] sort of ensure that what our vision is

[1:25:44] happens? Um my concern is we have the

[1:25:47] vision and nothing happens with it. Um,

[1:25:52] I have a concern that um, we will, and

[1:25:58] I'm going to get hit for this, conserve

[1:25:59] too much land. We have a lot of

[1:26:01] conserved land in town. As we've seen on

[1:26:04] these maps, there is a lot of buffer.

[1:26:06] There is a lot of wetland. There is a

[1:26:08] lot of stuff that already cannot be

[1:26:09] built on. I have a concern that more

[1:26:13] will be added to that to the detriment

[1:26:15] of housing.

[1:26:18] um and that we

[1:26:22] will end up with housing at higher costs

[1:26:25] and less density because we've added

[1:26:29] more land to the buildable land that is

[1:26:31] not going to get built on. Um and then

[1:26:35] we've heard a lot about um who is being

[1:26:39] listened to in these public sessions.

[1:26:42] Um, so I have a concern that we're not

[1:26:46] going to seek input or we can't get

[1:26:48] input or we're not going to hear from

[1:26:49] the people who want to live here but

[1:26:51] aren't already here. What do they need?

[1:26:55] Um,

[1:26:56] it's it's not just about what our own

[1:27:00] residents want. If we're looking to

[1:27:01] build 2,000 units, that's not going to

[1:27:05] be occupied by who's currently here

[1:27:07] solely. that's going to be occupied by

[1:27:10] people who haven't been able to live

[1:27:12] here for whatever reason and how do we

[1:27:15] ensure that we know what they want and

[1:27:17] what would help them move to Ammerst and

[1:27:21] what type of housing there. So that's my

[1:27:22] concerns. That ends the 13 counselor

[1:27:26] round robin. Um I'm going to send it

[1:27:29] back to the consultants but ask if

[1:27:32] there's a way to answer or address

[1:27:34] particularly two of the concerns that I

[1:27:36] heard pop up.

[1:27:38] um a a couple of times which is the the

[1:27:42] focus group the public process here um

[1:27:44] and the concerns that we have about that

[1:27:46] since that's one of the more immediate

[1:27:48] ones that that doesn't necessarily

[1:27:50] relate to zoning and then the concern

[1:27:52] about sort of all-encompassing the

[1:27:55] declining population the making sure it

[1:27:57] gets built have things like that um if

[1:27:59] that could be addressed before we move

[1:28:02] on to any other counselor concerns or

[1:28:04] questions from the consultants

[1:28:07] Yeah. So, the the good news is um

[1:28:10] assuming the project budget is approved,

[1:28:14] which is still pending with the state,

[1:28:16] but we're confident hopeful. Um but we

[1:28:20] have a a lot of hours to put into public

[1:28:22] participation. So, we'll be having the two public workshops at the Eric

[1:28:27] Carl Museum later in September. We'll be

[1:28:30] having another big public workshop

[1:28:31] beginning of November, which are, you

[1:28:34] know, traditional opportunities, but for

[1:28:36] people who have the means to get to the

[1:28:39] a room at 6:30 on an evening and have

[1:28:43] the wherewithal to participate. So, we

[1:28:46] are looking at other ways to reach out

[1:28:48] to people and particularly to go to

[1:28:50] groups where they are. I think probably

[1:28:53] the main part that's built into the

[1:28:54] budget now are these focus groups that

[1:28:56] we have uh budgeted for in October which

[1:29:01] will allow us to meet with whoever wants

[1:29:03] to meet with us wherever they can meet

[1:29:05] with us and

[1:29:09] we don't have the budget to meet with

[1:29:10] people individually but to the extent

[1:29:12] that you could for instance help us

[1:29:14] identify who we should be meeting with

[1:29:17] and help us connect with people who

[1:29:19] might um organize those meetings and

[1:29:22] help to run them. We have the time to do

[1:29:25] that. We'll also be working with

[1:29:27] existing town resources um the DEI DEI

[1:29:32] office um and getting their help and

[1:29:36] ideas for how to reach out to

[1:29:37] underserved populations. Um but it's a

[1:29:40] hard one. As you say, the people who

[1:29:42] this is going to serve, some of them

[1:29:44] aren't even born yet and they're not in

[1:29:46] Ammerst. Um

[1:29:49] so part of that is using existing

[1:29:52] reports and studies like as Nate said

[1:29:54] you're very good uh brand new

[1:29:57] practically housing production plan

[1:29:59] which does go into a great deal of

[1:30:00] detail in terms of demographic changes

[1:30:03] demographic challenges who is served by

[1:30:06] housing and who is not and what's

[1:30:07] needed. So, we'll be building on that um

[1:30:11] to try to get a sense by proxy of, you

[1:30:14] know, who's going to live here 20 years

[1:30:15] from now and what are they going to

[1:30:16] need. Um I wanted to ask if any of you

[1:30:20] have can point to a project, an effort

[1:30:24] in Ammerst or elsewhere that has done a

[1:30:27] really good job at involving people who

[1:30:30] aren't usually involved in planning

[1:30:32] projects.

[1:30:33] Maybe you don't have to answer that

[1:30:34] right now, but keep it in mind. Uh

[1:30:37] because we're always looking for what's

[1:30:39] worked rather than just try something

[1:30:43] and hope it does work.

[1:30:47] >> Anything else before I go to the

[1:30:48] counselors?

[1:30:50] We're going to go to councelor Ko

[1:30:52] Martin. Raise your hand.

[1:30:56] » Yeah, I mean I would I would suggest a

[1:30:58] couple things in in terms of like where

[1:31:00] to get feedback. I definitely think um

[1:31:02] the schools are are a great place to go

[1:31:05] just because so many people are are

[1:31:06] there anyway for their children and um

[1:31:09] one of the things that I know that the

[1:31:10] public schools do um that's really

[1:31:12] helpful is when they have an event um

[1:31:14] they provide busing from the apartment

[1:31:16] complexes which is like another you know

[1:31:19] population of folks that we want to talk

[1:31:20] to especially if we're talking housing.

[1:31:22] So, um I think that you know the schools

[1:31:24] and the apartment complexes, like I

[1:31:26] think we all have in our districts, we

[1:31:29] all have some apartment complexes and we

[1:31:31] could definitely like help spread the

[1:31:32] word to them about you know some kind of

[1:31:34] listening session or focus group and I'm

[1:31:36] certainly happy to help with that in

[1:31:37] district 2. Um and then the other thing

[1:31:40] I just wanted to lift up as well um is

[1:31:43] the language access piece. And so I

[1:31:45] think that if you're not already at

[1:31:47] least advertising um in English and

[1:31:50] Spanish and you know potentially looking

[1:31:52] at other languages would be really

[1:31:54] important and then and making it clear

[1:31:56] that there will be interpretation at the

[1:31:58] [clears throat] session so that people

[1:31:59] know that ahead of time. So it's not a

[1:32:01] question of like do I come and then I

[1:32:02] won't be able to understand anything.

[1:32:03] It's more like that resource is already

[1:32:05] there. Um so I just wanted to lift those

[1:32:08] things up.

[1:32:10] >> Thank you councelor Greamer

[1:32:12] >> on that topic. Um there are several

[1:32:14] nonprofits that serve the various um

[1:32:18] groups within Ammerst and I think

[1:32:20] connecting with them for focus uh groups

[1:32:23] would be an excellent way to go. Uh

[1:32:26] separate from that I want to just go

[1:32:28] back on this issue of workforce housing.

[1:32:30] Ammeris College is also focused on this

[1:32:33] right now. They've actually identified a

[1:32:36] piece of property they're in the process

[1:32:37] of studying.

[1:32:39] But do we really know if they want to

[1:32:41] move here or is it just easy to say, "I

[1:32:44] can't afford it." But actually, they're

[1:32:47] very invested in the community they live

[1:32:49] two communities over. They're on

[1:32:51] councils and committees there. Their

[1:32:55] spouse works there. Their kids love the

[1:32:57] school. Are we really expecting those

[1:33:01] people to move to Ammerst because one of

[1:33:03] them work, you know, has a job at one of

[1:33:06] the colleges? And so I really think

[1:33:10] workforce housing is a wonderful

[1:33:12] statement, but I would like to make sure

[1:33:14] that you investigate to the extent

[1:33:16] possible whether or not those people

[1:33:19] would really move to Ammerst. It's a it's a technical issue.

[1:33:25] >> Thank you, Councelor Shane.

[1:33:28] I'm just read your question of have

[1:33:31] there been any successful involvement

[1:33:33] and one in North Ammeris is belly CDC is about to open a bunch of duplexes. Um

[1:33:42] it's pretty dense envelop development

[1:33:45] with some shared green space. Early on

[1:33:48] they involved the whole North Ammeris

[1:33:50] group uh invited people in and they had

[1:33:53] little boxes you could move around the

[1:33:55] land to see how this might work and they

[1:33:58] changed the design. They ended up not

[1:34:01] having whether it's a good outcome or

[1:34:03] not but not having any onebedroom so

[1:34:05] it's two and threebedroom and they

[1:34:08] originally had some market rate but it's

[1:34:11] all affordable because they realized

[1:34:12] they couldn't support the market rates.

[1:34:15] I mean the market rates would be too

[1:34:17] high. So it it's it was very welcome

[1:34:20] would be the other thing because of

[1:34:22] that. And then way back when and I'm not

[1:34:25] I wasn't around when it was developed.

[1:34:27] Puffton Village is a place that was

[1:34:31] developed. There was a lot of community

[1:34:33] input way back when and it's a beautiful

[1:34:36] layout on um quite dense all low you

[1:34:41] know not tall buildings but there's a

[1:34:44] lot of shared outdoor space and whoever

[1:34:47] came up with those concepts um did a

[1:34:50] good job of blending it in in a

[1:34:53] different way than some of the other big

[1:34:55] buildings that have come in. So looking

[1:34:57] into the Puffton history and how much

[1:35:00] community involvement and how much that

[1:35:02] was just the developers already knew

[1:35:04] that's where they wanted to go.

[1:35:07] >> Thank you councelor Mloud.

[1:35:10] >> Uh thank you. uh regarding outreach

[1:35:15] uh thought enter do we have an online

[1:35:18] questionnaire that could be forwarded to

[1:35:21] you know constituents or others about

[1:35:24] here are questions we might have

[1:35:26] regarding uh what you think about

[1:35:29] Hampshire

[1:35:31] avenue I think schools is probably the best uh location we used to use them

[1:35:38] with our soccer league and other sports

[1:35:40] leagues And it was always extremely

[1:35:42] effective. Of course, it was youth

[1:35:44] sports, but um you know, the schools are

[1:35:48] great, but online forms of information

[1:35:50] requests, not just for the counselors,

[1:35:53] but that could be sent out in general

[1:35:56] for the purpose of brainstorming, uh

[1:35:59] could be effective.

[1:36:01] >> Thank you, councelor Breick.

[1:36:04] Yeah, I just wanted to add um as

[1:36:06] counselors, we're all required to hold

[1:36:08] two district meetings per year and that

[1:36:10] could be a good setting. They're sort of

[1:36:13] focus groups in themselves. Um you know,

[1:36:16] people handle them different ways, but I

[1:36:18] think that could be a good opportunity

[1:36:20] if we all wanted to think about how we

[1:36:22] could use um use our district meetings

[1:36:25] to get feedback or partner with you guys

[1:36:27] to, you know, have a presentation or

[1:36:29] something like that. Thank you,

[1:36:31] Councelor Churchill.

[1:36:35] >> Councelor Breivik, be me to it. I think

[1:36:37] that we you have third you have 10

[1:36:40] district uh reps who all are going to

[1:36:42] have district meetings and they have

[1:36:44] their lists of of constituents and the

[1:36:48] atlarge folks can come to those too. So,

[1:36:50] um use us to generate put put the burden

[1:36:53] on us to generate the the audience

[1:36:56] >> in part.

[1:36:59] Thank you. I wanted to touch back on the

[1:37:02] concept of workforce housing and just

[1:37:04] comment that workforce housing isn't

[1:37:06] just about existing workers. Um it's not

[1:37:08] like a mass migration would happen,

[1:37:10] right? Uh this is we know that the

[1:37:13] institutions in the area are struggling

[1:37:16] with their staff and faculty like

[1:37:18] filling positions because there isn't a

[1:37:20] place for folks to move to. So I just

[1:37:22] and we hear it from our own employees,

[1:37:24] right? that they'd love to live in

[1:37:26] Ammerst and we're not I don't think that

[1:37:28] it's realistic to suggest that anyone

[1:37:30] would up and leave their current home um

[1:37:33] if especially if they are have a home

[1:37:34] ownership opportunity currently but our

[1:37:37] community is constantly shifting because

[1:37:40] of the industries in our town. So we see

[1:37:42] new people coming in and it would be

[1:37:44] interesting if you had uh conversations

[1:37:46] with folks at the college and the

[1:37:48] university about what they're seeing for

[1:37:50] from a hiring perspective in terms of

[1:37:52] folks coming in needing housing. um

[1:37:54] because I think that that is a

[1:37:56] challenge. Uh I anticipate that will be

[1:37:58] a challenge you hear about. And then I

[1:38:00] just wanted to um Kathy was talking

[1:38:02] about different models. I I also think

[1:38:04] the housing co-ops have been really

[1:38:05] interesting um to see how those have

[1:38:08] functioned in our town and elsewhere. Um

[1:38:10] and then just both jar on the the point

[1:38:14] about district meetings and utilizing us

[1:38:16] as communication vehicles.

[1:38:19] >> Thank you councelor Tom.

[1:38:21] >> Yes. Again, picking up on district

[1:38:23] mailing lists, if um I think it was Andy

[1:38:27] who suggested no Sam of having um if

[1:38:30] there was a questionnaire that could be

[1:38:32] distributed directly to residents

[1:38:34] because if there is, that's also

[1:38:35] something we can send out to our

[1:38:37] district mailing lists. And I think when

[1:38:39] you put all of us together, it gets to

[1:38:42] be in the thousands of recipients on

[1:38:44] those lists. And I just this is kind of

[1:38:46] a question when you um do a when you try

[1:38:52] and determine what the demand is for

[1:38:54] housing in Ammerst, does that also get

[1:38:57] to you know um workers in Ammerst

[1:39:02] currently and in the future that would

[1:39:04] want to live live here? I guess I'm kind

[1:39:06] of wondering how you do that

[1:39:08] kind of research to get a handle on

[1:39:10] that. You don't have to answer it now,

[1:39:12] but um you know because that that is a

[1:39:15] question we all want housing um and what

[1:39:18] really is the demand for different kinds

[1:39:21] of housing in Ammerst.

[1:39:24] >> Thank you. Um Nate and Peter, any

[1:39:28] thoughts, questions, clarifying

[1:39:31] questions you'd like to ask before we

[1:39:34] move on?

[1:39:49] I think maybe one

[1:39:51] piece to hone in on here and and this

[1:39:54] has been said a number of times is this

[1:39:57] the the

[1:39:59] natural like totally understandable

[1:40:01] trepidation about who buys this this

[1:40:03] land, right? So, um that is something

[1:40:06] the town nor the zoning, neither the

[1:40:09] town nor the zoning um you know

[1:40:12] ultimately decides. Um and so that is

[1:40:15] sort of like the the bottom line of

[1:40:17] that. Um but the zoning

[1:40:21] can will send a signal you know if if

[1:40:24] there is if if the land is not yet

[1:40:26] purchased uh once the zoning gets

[1:40:29] adopted the zoning sends a signal and

[1:40:31] those are important uh to future

[1:40:33] developers. So um you know I don't want

[1:40:36] to be sort of pie in the sky but it's

[1:40:39] but I will speak directly from my

[1:40:41] professional experience. There are a lot

[1:40:43] of developers out there who are really

[1:40:45] passionate about their work and who

[1:40:47] really have amazing portfolios and love

[1:40:51] to build these communities. This is

[1:40:53] their products. They they of course find

[1:40:56] it profitable. Um but it's not easy,

[1:41:00] right? This is somebody talked about

[1:41:02] sort of like token subdivisions. That's

[1:41:04] easy. That's an easy way to build

[1:41:06] housing and that's an easy way to make a

[1:41:09] buck is to just do sort of standard

[1:41:12] subdivisions. So these developers are

[1:41:15] driven by profit but they're also driven

[1:41:18] by their own sort of personal vision of

[1:41:21] what they want to create. And so then

[1:41:23] you see that in their portfolio. So that

[1:41:26] is something that you know u can and

[1:41:29] hopefully will like drive this when

[1:41:32] there's a when there's a purchaser when

[1:41:34] there when there's somebody going

[1:41:35] forward. We cannot um even if you wanted

[1:41:39] to you could not zone out the

[1:41:42] possibility of a nonprofit

[1:41:44] uh educational institution purchasing

[1:41:47] you you know this right? I see a lot of

[1:41:48] nodding heads. So yes, a religious

[1:41:51] institution, an educational institution,

[1:41:53] no matter what we zone this property

[1:41:56] for, that is still on the table, right?

[1:41:58] Those are part of uh sort of statutory

[1:42:00] protections that those those uses have.

[1:42:03] And so that is that is part of this

[1:42:05] process that is that's part of the the

[1:42:08] consideration that you need to think

[1:42:10] about. Um but again, the zoning sends

[1:42:13] the signal um for something different.

[1:42:16] Right now, the zoning just says

[1:42:17] nonprofit educational institution. Uh,

[1:42:20] but new zoning, part of the reason why

[1:42:22] this is um we're trying to do this as

[1:42:25] efficiently as we can. Uh, while at the

[1:42:27] same time being comprehensive and

[1:42:29] thoughtful about this is that you want

[1:42:31] to send that signal and you want to get

[1:42:33] that out um, you know, expeditiously.

[1:42:37] Um,

[1:42:51] I mean, for my part,

[1:42:53] >> um, you know, I think we have the same

[1:42:55] concerns as you do about the the

[1:42:57] marketability of this and, you know, if

[1:42:58] we build if you build it, if you zone

[1:43:00] it, will they come? Um,

[1:43:04] I think that the good news, my

[1:43:07] observation is this is a really unusual

[1:43:09] site as you know. Not just is it a

[1:43:12] credible spot in the planet to live and

[1:43:15] work uh if you can uh but also it's

[1:43:19] already got roads, parking lots, water

[1:43:23] and sewer, and lots of vacant space. You

[1:43:27] don't have to tear anything down to

[1:43:28] start building a lot of stuff if that's

[1:43:30] what you want to do.

[1:43:32] Um, I mean there's that 200 acres does

[1:43:34] include the existing campus, but there's

[1:43:36] also acres and acres of just empty land

[1:43:40] and a lot of it's just lawn, right? It's

[1:43:43] not being farmed right now. There is

[1:43:46] huge opportunities there right now with

[1:43:48] water and sewer and space and the

[1:43:51] location.

[1:43:52] So I think like Nate, I've been spending

[1:43:55] some decades looking at how development

[1:43:57] happens and seeing what happens and how

[1:43:59] we how it shapes our towns. So this

[1:44:01] really seems like an unusual really

[1:44:04] unique opportunity. Uh and I'm hoping

[1:44:06] that it could be something really great.

[1:44:09] U but it's great to hear because these

[1:44:12] concerns are then we're going to take

[1:44:14] them back and talk to you three and

[1:44:15] figure out how do we really get a handle

[1:44:17] on this? How do we know and when will we

[1:44:19] know it? and is it possible to know it?

[1:44:22] And then we'll come back to you and give

[1:44:24] you the answers hopefully.

[1:44:27] >> Thank you, Nate.

[1:44:29] >> Yeah, I think another thing that I

[1:44:31] wanted to speak to, it came up I think

[1:44:32] with three three different members here.

[1:44:35] Um had to do with the financial

[1:44:37] modeling. I think councelor Brevik, you

[1:44:40] started off and asking sort of like what

[1:44:41] does this look like? How is this being

[1:44:43] calculated? Um, Council Shane, you know,

[1:44:46] I think you you made the uh the comment

[1:44:49] about the net revenue and council

[1:44:50] method. This is this has been a

[1:44:52] recurring, you know, theme from you

[1:44:54] concern and I guess at the risk of

[1:44:57] punting, um, this is one of the reasons

[1:44:59] why we have an expert on our team who

[1:45:01] has not been. Uh, so we have U3

[1:45:03] advisors. Um, and we we did bring

[1:45:06] someone in who is very adept at

[1:45:09] financial real estate modeling. So, this

[1:45:11] will be a modeled exercise. Um there

[1:45:14] will be assumptions baked into this

[1:45:15] because we're not dealing with actual

[1:45:18] development proposals. We're dealing

[1:45:20] with different development scenarios. Uh

[1:45:22] but we will, you know, we will do

[1:45:23] ballpark estimates of square footage. We

[1:45:26] will do ballpark estimates of um uh

[1:45:30] generated uh students. We will do

[1:45:33] ballpark estimates. We'll be looking at

[1:45:35] sort of like fees versus um flows, you

[1:45:38] know, in terms of uh infrastructure and

[1:45:41] those things. Um so yeah that that is

[1:45:43] all uh baked into this. You know my

[1:45:47] colleague John Tremense would be able to

[1:45:49] answer this much better uh than I but um

[1:45:51] you know you'll see those we'll be very

[1:45:53] transparent about it you know once we

[1:45:55] start testing those scenarios uh as as

[1:45:57] they come through.

[1:45:58] >> Excellent Jeeoff.

[1:46:02] >> So again I really want to thank everyone

[1:46:04] for this opportunity. I think it's been

[1:46:05] very informative heard so much and I

[1:46:08] think we heard a lot on the public

[1:46:09] process. though that's being heard and

[1:46:11] listened to. I do want to say a couple

[1:46:14] words I, you know, that haven't been

[1:46:16] said yet. There's going to need to be

[1:46:17] tradeoffs and there's going to need to

[1:46:19] be balancing as we move forward. Um,

[1:46:22] because we can get a lot of public

[1:46:25] input. It's super valuable, but when it

[1:46:27] comes down to zoning, there are going to

[1:46:28] be a limited number of tools. At the end

[1:46:31] of the day, it's going to be limited

[1:46:32] what we can do through zoning. So, I do

[1:46:34] want to just make the statement to the

[1:46:36] council that when the time comes to go

[1:46:38] through the zoning and and talk about

[1:46:40] adoption, just do not lose the forest

[1:46:42] for the trees. The opportunity that the

[1:46:44] town has will be to create zoning that

[1:46:47] allows these opportunities to happen.

[1:46:48] But if we don't get through that

[1:46:50] process, we will not have the

[1:46:51] opportunity. So, when the time comes,

[1:46:54] January, February, March, you know, just

[1:46:56] keep keep that in mind that this is the

[1:46:58] opportunity and this is the time that we

[1:47:00] need to do something. what I heard and I

[1:47:02] don't want to anchor it too hard on the

[1:47:03] master plan concept but there's a part

[1:47:06] of the public process that would happen

[1:47:07] now to frame the zoning and if we do

[1:47:10] this correctly there might be an

[1:47:11] opportunity through the when there's an

[1:47:12] actual master plan being developed or

[1:47:15] proposed there could be additional

[1:47:16] public input because that's when they're

[1:47:18] actually going to have realistic

[1:47:20] tangible things that would be proposed

[1:47:22] versus the conceptual zoning efforts.

[1:47:25] So, at a certain point, we might need to

[1:47:26] balance the the need for public input

[1:47:29] with passing zoning, understanding that

[1:47:31] there would be a full process that would follow from that. So, we're not

[1:47:35] there yet. I'm just trying to speak

[1:47:37] professionally that at a certain point,

[1:47:38] you know, we will need to talk about

[1:47:41] adopting something that allows the

[1:47:42] opportunities to move forward and

[1:47:44] happen. Um, so, um, that was what I

[1:47:47] wanted to say.

[1:47:48] >> Okay,

[1:47:49] >> that raised a couple of extra hands on

[1:47:51] the council. Um we are approaching our

[1:47:53] 45minut

[1:47:55] um goal on this topic or this prompt. Um

[1:47:58] but there are four hands raised. I

[1:48:00] encourage each of the four that I'm

[1:48:02] going to recognize to be quick um in

[1:48:05] your comments and concise in your

[1:48:07] comments because we're going to then

[1:48:08] move on after those four to the third

[1:48:11] prompt. We start with councelor Rooney.

[1:48:16] » Thank you.

[1:48:18] uh considering a lot of it is

[1:48:20] residential outlying residential low

[1:48:23] density and I just wanted to confirm for us and

[1:48:30] for the public that right now

[1:48:35] and understand it correctly all of

[1:48:39] is currently not taxable.

[1:48:42] So both O RLD and not taxable

[1:48:47] would applying just about any zoning

[1:48:50] type

[1:48:52] besid

[1:48:56] with that

[1:49:02] I'm trying to frame this um we should

[1:49:06] probably we don't want a large scale

[1:49:11] institution

[1:49:14] We probably want to lift and remove the

[1:49:18] ED zoning. Is that correct?

[1:49:23] >> Thank you for that question. Um, we're

[1:49:25] going to move on to Councelor Mloud.

[1:49:28] >> Thank you, Mandy. Uh, following up on a

[1:49:31] comment or question that, uh, Andy had

[1:49:34] previously, uh, Hampshire owns the

[1:49:36] property now. They're in control of what

[1:49:38] happens to it. They've set their own

[1:49:41] expected time frame of closing come

[1:49:43] December. Uh our planning department has

[1:49:47] set an a time frame which I agree with

[1:49:50] for proactively

[1:49:52] uh engaging and trying to be ready when

[1:49:54] the time comes.

[1:49:57] But I didn't hear an answer to Andy's

[1:49:59] question previously, which is currently

[1:50:01] it's Hampshire Collegeowned. It's mostly

[1:50:04] educational in the primary area. At

[1:50:07] [clears throat] what point could the

[1:50:08] town make changes to zoning proactively

[1:50:12] if they wished? Must that wait until

[1:50:16] Hampshire officially closes? Doesn't

[1:50:18] change our process, but I'm just

[1:50:20] curious.

[1:50:23] >> Jeff,

[1:50:24] >> if I understood the question correctly,

[1:50:26] we do not need to wait for anything to

[1:50:29] change the zoning.

[1:50:31] >> Thank you.

[1:50:31] Um, councelor Greimer,

[1:50:34] >> the only thing I want you to be clear

[1:50:36] about, Sam, is that um, even if we zone

[1:50:39] it something else, education can still

[1:50:41] come in.

[1:50:41] >> I understand.

[1:50:42] >> They have a right. And so that's not my

[1:50:45] point. Um, my um, I want to just ask

[1:50:49] Jeff, when are we going to start the

[1:50:50] master plan process in relationship to

[1:50:52] this? Because it seems like it's almost

[1:50:57] >> a possible.

[1:50:58] >> You're asking about the the Ammeris.

[1:51:01] master plan process.

[1:51:03] >> 20 years out soon,

[1:51:05] >> right,

[1:51:05] >> Jeff?

[1:51:08] >> I'm not really prepared to answer. I

[1:51:09] think it was 2030 was the timeline.

[1:51:11] >> 2030 is when we have to adopt something

[1:51:13] new. That's in three and a half years.

[1:51:16] Um, councelor Brevik,

[1:51:18] >> really quick comment that I I love that

[1:51:20] there'll be another opportunity for

[1:51:21] people to give input once the master

[1:51:23] plan is taken more shape, but I think

[1:51:25] that is even more of a reason to focus

[1:51:27] on getting early input. I know just from

[1:51:30] experience that I think if we come to

[1:51:32] people with a plan that's already

[1:51:33] formulated,

[1:51:34] they don't it doesn't usually go over

[1:51:37] that well. I think we can set

[1:51:39] expectations successfully

[1:51:41] and make sure that people understand

[1:51:43] that the early preliminary input is what

[1:51:45] that is what it is. It's preliminary

[1:51:47] input taken in with a lot of different

[1:51:49] factors. But I do think that that first

[1:51:53] step is is hugely important in people

[1:51:55] feeling like we don't just come to them

[1:51:56] after something is 99% done.

[1:51:59] >> Thank you. We are going to move on to

[1:52:01] the third prompt. Um the third prompt is

[1:52:05] and again it will be a quick round robin

[1:52:07] again and there won't be much

[1:52:09] conversation after the roundroin. Um,

[1:52:13] looking ahead 20 years, what outcomes

[1:52:15] would lead you to consider the reuse of

[1:52:17] Hampshire College a success? And what

[1:52:20] outcomes comes would you regard as signs

[1:52:23] that the town made the wrong decisions?

[1:52:26] We start with councelor Ryan.

[1:52:30] I've already spoken to this I think in a

[1:52:32] way and I'm going to pick up on

[1:52:33] something that Andy said earlier um in

[1:52:37] terms of what would be my nightmare

[1:52:39] vision would be a sterile subdivision

[1:52:42] would be um that would be a disaster in

[1:52:46] my view. Um, I think also anything that

[1:52:49] would fail, so you could flip this the

[1:52:51] other way, I guess, in 20 years,

[1:52:54] something that somehow captured or

[1:52:56] preserved

[1:52:57] something that was unique or special to

[1:52:59] Hampshire, which was its vision, its

[1:53:01] educational goal. If it could come up

[1:53:04] with something that would both combine a

[1:53:06] vision of lifelong learning with some of

[1:53:09] our housing and economic goals, that

[1:53:11] would be to me um a success. that that

[1:53:15] something of what Hampshire set out to

[1:53:17] do is still preserved um and yet at the

[1:53:20] same time is providing the kinds of

[1:53:23] economic and housing goals that we are

[1:53:26] eager to to realize. That I guess would

[1:53:29] be my 20-year vision of success and

[1:53:33] you've already heard my 20-year vision

[1:53:35] of failure which I stole from councelor

[1:53:37] Churchill.

[1:53:38] >> Thank you councelor Lord.

[1:53:43] Thank you. I believe we will have made the wrong decision if

[1:53:50] the Hampshire property becomes

[1:53:52] economically successful. Not saying I

[1:53:55] don't want it to be, but economically

[1:53:57] successful while Ammeris becomes less

[1:53:58] affordable, less diverse, less

[1:54:01] connected, and loses natural resources

[1:54:03] that can never be recovered.

[1:54:06] 20 years from now, I would consider the

[1:54:08] reuse of Hampshire College a success. If it has created a genuinely mixed

[1:54:13] income and multi-generational community,

[1:54:16] expanded housing and economic

[1:54:18] opportunity, preserved significant

[1:54:21] farmland, forest, open space,

[1:54:24] provided places for wellness, culture,

[1:54:27] recreation, education, and community

[1:54:30] life, and strengthened Ammeris racial

[1:54:32] and economic diversity. I'd want

[1:54:35] residents to feel that this land became

[1:54:37] more, not less, connected to the broader

[1:54:39] Ammeris community. And most importantly,

[1:54:42] I would want us to be able to say that

[1:54:44] we did not simply develop land, but we

[1:54:46] created community that would give to the

[1:54:50] public good for generations to come. I'm

[1:54:52] not asking too much now. Thank you.

[1:54:55] >> Thank you, Councelor Lord. Councelor

[1:54:57] Shane

[1:55:00] >> uh success would be uh we have a vibrant

[1:55:05] community with uh what we've all talked

[1:55:08] about a mix which has succeeded in

[1:55:11] preserving a lot of community space. Um

[1:55:14] and I totally agree with what uh

[1:55:16] councelor Hani said earlier. We don't

[1:55:18] need to preserve more

[1:55:22] uh wetlands and things. this is at least

[1:55:26] using that 200 acres well um and uh it's

[1:55:31] paying taxes. A failure would be we have

[1:55:35] a lot of dense housing with no sense of

[1:55:37] community. We've lost community spaces

[1:55:40] and we underestimated the cost to our

[1:55:43] infrastructure. Um the sewer system

[1:55:45] doesn't work very well. The waterways

[1:55:48] don't work very well. Um, we we lost we

[1:55:52] have an overdeveloped

[1:55:55] 200 acre lot because we didn't think of

[1:55:58] what could happen um if you just opened

[1:56:00] up that space.

[1:56:02] >> Thank you, Councelor Mloud.

[1:56:04] >> Uh, thank you. I kind of like what

[1:56:07] councelor Lord said, but uh she might

[1:56:10] have had more than three in there. Uh, I

[1:56:12] would say how would I view it a success

[1:56:14] down the road without getting into

[1:56:16] details? I'd say happy residents in

[1:56:18] Amoris regarding the outcome, whatever

[1:56:21] that might be. Uh for me, I would

[1:56:23] indicate mixed housing availability that

[1:56:26] uh works well for those who are living

[1:56:27] there. Uh and an improved financial

[1:56:34] contributing to improvements in the town

[1:56:36] financial situation.

[1:56:38] >> Thank you, Councelor Tub.

[1:56:42] I'm feeling uh repetitious, but I would

[1:56:44] say um I would consider it a success if

[1:56:48] it, you know, was a mixed income and

[1:56:50] multi-generational community that

[1:56:53] provided a variety of housing

[1:56:55] opportunities, both home ownership and

[1:56:58] uh rental, and that had educational

[1:57:01] offerings, many of which have been part

[1:57:04] of the Hampshire College community, as

[1:57:06] well as small businesses that serve the

[1:57:08] diverse residents who would live in the

[1:57:11] new community as well as others in

[1:57:15] Ammerst and surrounding towns.

[1:57:18] And yeah, I would consider it um not a

[1:57:22] success if I would um you know uh

[1:57:26] restate the sterile subdivision or

[1:57:30] if it didn't really get developed at

[1:57:33] all.

[1:57:35] >> Thank you, Councelor Walker.

[1:57:38] Um, thank you. I think a lot of folks

[1:57:41] have said what I would say and I think

[1:57:43] counselor Lords was wonderful. Um, I

[1:57:46] think overall it would be community

[1:57:49] satisfaction. So like this idea of

[1:57:52] continuing to get input from the

[1:57:54] community. Um, I would like it to be a

[1:57:57] place where the commu the folks who live

[1:57:59] there feel like the community is

[1:58:00] thriving. They're utilizing the land in

[1:58:02] the facility. Folks feel happy. they

[1:58:05] have access to basic needs, food,

[1:58:07] recreation. Hopefully, um the PBTA

[1:58:10] system um will have more uh bus takers

[1:58:15] and bikers

[1:58:17] um and just a place where we can foster

[1:58:19] diversity and more community connection.

[1:58:21] Um increased housing opportunities,

[1:58:24] increased revenue for the town. Um, I

[1:58:27] think some failures, some things that

[1:58:29] would make me think it was a failure

[1:58:30] would be if the apartments or housing

[1:58:32] opportunities um, drive up other rental

[1:58:35] costs in town and then all rental

[1:58:37] housing is just really high. Um, loss of

[1:58:39] natural resources um, and then if it

[1:58:42] were bought by a religious or

[1:58:45] educational institution and we lost

[1:58:47] access for local residents or the owners

[1:58:51] don't maintain the space.

[1:58:54] Thank you, councelor Brevik.

[1:58:57] >> Yeah, I think to the second part of this

[1:58:59] is, you know, how would we know we made

[1:59:01] the wrong decision? I think I'll just

[1:59:02] echo what everybody I'll quickly echo

[1:59:04] what everybody else has said. I really

[1:59:05] don't want to see it become a dead

[1:59:07] space, a vacant space. Um, you know,

[1:59:10] don't want some kind of cult walking

[1:59:11] around like I think a data center, all

[1:59:14] those things. But I think really I just

[1:59:16] I want it to not be something that

[1:59:19] people drive through to get to the next

[1:59:20] place, but that it's something that

[1:59:22] draws people into town. Um, and I think

[1:59:24] that's how we'll know is that people are

[1:59:26] coming here for whatever is there and then frequenting our other

[1:59:31] businesses in town and other parts of

[1:59:32] town and and kind of that it's a

[1:59:34] something that is driving that e

[1:59:36] economic prosperity throughout Ammerst.

[1:59:39] Um, and then you know, how will we know

[1:59:41] it's a success? I think we'll have fully

[1:59:42] funded schools and our roads will all be

[1:59:45] paved and we'll have a youth empowerment

[1:59:46] center and we'll have all of these

[1:59:48] things that we know the majority of our

[1:59:50] residents want and we are struggling

[1:59:52] tremendously to get to achieve those

[1:59:54] things I think but really you know it at

[1:59:58] the same time that it leads to Ammeris

[2:00:01] being a a more diverse population

[2:00:04] uh and a place that is known as

[2:00:06] affordable, beautiful and supportive and

[2:00:08] just a good place to live and work and

[2:00:10] that becomes our legacy. See, thank you,

[2:00:13] Council Churchill.

[2:00:18] » I I was um really happy to see Village

[2:00:21] Hill listed as one of the examples

[2:00:23] because I think that's actually a an

[2:00:26] example nearby that has actually been

[2:00:29] able to create a variety of housing

[2:00:31] types, a variety of housing levels. It's

[2:00:34] uh seems to be thriving. Um,

[2:00:38] and so that that was uh I guess that's

[2:00:43] kind of an example I had in my mind of

[2:00:45] what success would look like. Um,

[2:00:49] you know, I think basically what people

[2:00:52] have said, it's I'd want it to be a

[2:00:54] vibrant space. I'd want it to serve a

[2:00:56] variety of residents. I'd like it to

[2:00:58] generate a fair amount of tax revenue

[2:01:00] and um just that we take advantage of

[2:01:04] this unique opportunity to have

[2:01:08] uh actual developable space and that we

[2:01:10] do it well. Um what I I think pretty

[2:01:14] much we've heard I I would sign on to um

[2:01:17] Councelor Lord's comments as well. I

[2:01:19] think she summed up the sort of vibrancy

[2:01:21] and the diversity and the sense of

[2:01:23] community both within it and connected

[2:01:26] to the broader community.

[2:01:27] >> Thank you. Uh councelor Tob, did you

[2:01:30] have an issue with something

[2:01:33] >> your hand just went up?

[2:01:34] >> Yeah. No, that's mistake. [laughter]

[2:01:36] >> Okay. I just wanted to check

[2:01:39] in terms of if you were having a problem

[2:01:40] hearing or anything. Okay. Councelor

[2:01:42] Rooney.

[2:01:44] Um success in my mind would be a very

[2:01:47] strong vibrant neighborhood or

[2:01:50] neighborhoods depending how it's laid

[2:01:52] out. Um with uh organized around shared

[2:01:56] outdoor spaces and corridors uh with

[2:01:59] cultural and workspaces provided that

[2:02:02] really uh knit the community together.

[2:02:06] Um failure is a place with dilapidated

[2:02:10] buildings and and unutilized

[2:02:14] and untaxable land. Thank you.

[2:02:18] >> Thank you. Um I'm next on the list

[2:02:22] about basically what everyone else has

[2:02:23] said about success, a vibrant village

[2:02:25] center supporting all ages and incomes

[2:02:28] of residents. I want to see walkable

[2:02:30] business and commercial needs and

[2:02:32] amenities in in that area and public

[2:02:35] recreational opportunities. If it's got

[2:02:37] all of that, I'll see it as a success.

[2:02:40] Um, a failure, if you want to call it

[2:02:43] that or the wrong decision, um,

[2:02:45] undeveloped at all. Um, we went through

[2:02:48] the process. We had a vision and nothing

[2:02:50] happened for whatever reason. Nothing

[2:02:53] happened. um or um sort of what other

[2:02:57] people have said, the sterile non-com

[2:02:59] community, sort of nonvibrant community,

[2:03:01] lots of housing but nothing else and not

[2:03:04] walkable and not not responding to the

[2:03:06] environment and things like that. Uh

[2:03:08] councelor Greimer,

[2:03:11] >> I'm not going to repeat any of them.

[2:03:13] What I'm hoping is 20 years from now

[2:03:15] some consultant is sitting somewhere and

[2:03:17] using us as the best example.

[2:03:20] Thanks, Councelor Keno Martin.

[2:03:24] Yeah, I mean I think some of the, you

[2:03:26] know, more quantitative indicators of

[2:03:28] success would be, you know, we would

[2:03:30] actually see that we're not struggling

[2:03:31] as much as a town in terms of our um our

[2:03:34] tax revenue and that we're able to

[2:03:36] provide, you know, the the services that

[2:03:38] we want to provide to our community and the infrastructure that we want to

[2:03:41] provide. Um and then of course we would

[2:03:43] see, you know, in these housing studies,

[2:03:45] we wouldn't see, you know, so much

[2:03:46] discrepancy of like people who are, you

[2:03:48] know, um costburdened or extremely cost

[2:03:50] burdened in their housing costs. And we

[2:03:52] would also see maybe we buck the trend

[2:03:53] and you know our community's population

[2:03:55] is increasing right while others are

[2:03:57] maybe going down. Um you know because

[2:03:59] it's a very livable town and people want

[2:04:01] to come here. Um and then some of the

[2:04:03] things that I think are you know um more

[2:04:05] quantitative or qualitative I would say

[2:04:07] you know is definitely some of the

[2:04:08] things that counselor Lord was raising

[2:04:09] up right like it's the diversity it's

[2:04:11] the vibrant community. it's, you know,

[2:04:13] increasing, you know, that that sort of

[2:04:16] um presence in our town and and that

[2:04:19] sort of um you know, vibrancy. And also,

[2:04:22] um one thing that I think is is really

[2:04:24] important and I I would love to see us

[2:04:25] get this right is that we have new

[2:04:27] development, but it's also like

[2:04:30] environmentally friendly development.

[2:04:32] Like we're not like destroying buildings

[2:04:34] that could still be used to make

[2:04:35] something new. And you know, we're not

[2:04:37] like taking over land that's farmland or

[2:04:40] conservation land to create what we want

[2:04:42] to create. we we're not destroying those

[2:04:44] things in order to create and I think

[2:04:46] that you know and that we're building

[2:04:47] things that are up to the absolute best

[2:04:48] standards of like green energy and and

[2:04:50] you know being net zero or as close to

[2:04:52] net zero as possible um because I think

[2:04:54] Ammerst as a town like we have that

[2:04:57] ability in us like we have we value

[2:04:59] those things we've shown that we value

[2:05:00] those things and this is our chance to

[2:05:02] like put that into practice and put it

[2:05:03] in action you know can we do it with

[2:05:05] this big piece of land given the

[2:05:06] opportunity and balance all of those

[2:05:09] things um so yeah I mean I I think that

[2:05:13] would be a success and I think the you

[2:05:15] know not success would either be the

[2:05:17] property is vacant and nothing is done

[2:05:19] with it and another to me not success

[2:05:23] would be we get a lot of really

[2:05:24] expensive housing and the community

[2:05:26] becomes even less affordable and that's

[2:05:28] really scary to me and I think it's

[2:05:29] always a risk. So

[2:05:31] >> thank you councelor Devon Gier.

[2:05:34] >> All right I'm going to start with the

[2:05:36] Gary situation first. Um, echoing a lot

[2:05:38] of what folks said, uh, large huge box

[2:05:43] boxy buildings that only hold one thing

[2:05:45] or the other, right? So, they're only

[2:05:47] apartments and that's all that's on the

[2:05:48] space or only some big box situation and

[2:05:52] that's all that's there. Um, kind of

[2:05:53] that cookie cutter idea. Uh, I the loss

[2:05:57] of natural space and pushing or constant

[2:06:00] pushing on our bylaws that exist to

[2:06:02] protect natural space is a concern to

[2:06:04] me. I I think that it's important to me

[2:06:07] that you all understand we are not all

[2:06:10] aligned fully on how much natural space

[2:06:13] should stay or go. Um I think you've

[2:06:15] heard some some folks speaking strongly

[2:06:17] in support of get rid of whatever you

[2:06:20] need to get rid and maybe I'm being

[2:06:22] hyperbolic but uh you know don't concern

[2:06:24] yourself with that preservation so much

[2:06:26] as concern yourself with housing. And I

[2:06:28] hope that you are also hearing some of

[2:06:30] us saying we would like you to continue

[2:06:32] to concern yourself with the the

[2:06:34] preservation of that natural space. So

[2:06:36] my ideal situation because that's more

[2:06:38] fun to think about is um a essentially a

[2:06:41] micro village center on an environment

[2:06:44] which recognizes the value of that

[2:06:46] natural space to the success of the

[2:06:47] community that's on it. Um, I want to

[2:06:51] see a this is a huge test of our

[2:06:54] relatively still new often stretch

[2:06:57] energy code, right? This is the

[2:06:59] potential for a lot of new buildings

[2:07:00] that would be more sustainable than

[2:07:03] construction we've seen in in the past,

[2:07:06] which is really exciting to me. Um, and

[2:07:08] on that note, you know, I want to see

[2:07:10] school buses going down into that area

[2:07:12] every day. I want to see PVTA needing to

[2:07:15] expand their roots into there, not just keep up the existing one. Um,

[2:07:20] I'd love to see the the Red Barn still

[2:07:23] hosting some sort of event or being

[2:07:24] utilized. Same with the Kern Center. Um,

[2:07:27] those are buildings that are incredible

[2:07:28] and I'd love to see become something

[2:07:30] that fosters that that community in some

[2:07:33] way. Um,

[2:07:35] same with the farm. I would the the

[2:07:38] weird niche thing that I would really

[2:07:40] love to see is I want to see CPA

[2:07:42] applications coming from this area of

[2:07:44] town. I want to see people applying for

[2:07:46] funding to build new playgrounds and to

[2:07:48] uh upkeep that natural space. I think

[2:07:50] for me that'll be a mark of success is

[2:07:52] when they need to when they're they're

[2:07:54] at a place where they're like, you know

[2:07:56] what, this is great. Let's continue it

[2:07:57] with that continued funding through CPA.

[2:07:59] That was just the random example that

[2:08:01] Chris, but uh it's true for me.

[2:08:04] >> Thank you. That was our 13th counselor

[2:08:06] on that prompt. I'm going to pass this

[2:08:09] on to the Nate and Peter and Jeff for

[2:08:13] anything you'd like to say now or

[2:08:16] conclude before we move on to public

[2:08:18] comment.

[2:08:24] » I have nothing to add at this point.

[2:08:27] >> No, it's a lot. I mean, I I just really

[2:08:29] appreciate some of the like some of the

[2:08:32] language you use was very precise and

[2:08:34] very thoughtful like the the connection

[2:08:36] between the health of the land and the

[2:08:39] village that exists within it. The

[2:08:43] legacy of culture and learning combined

[2:08:46] with the um the issues around the the need for housing, the want the want

[2:08:52] for housing. Um so um just great stuff.

[2:08:55] Thank you for that.

[2:08:58] You're good. With that, we're going to

[2:09:01] thank you for showing up tonight. Um,

[2:09:03] we're going to have a public comment

[2:09:05] period. Um, and then I will finish with

[2:09:08] concluding marks after the public

[2:09:09] comment period. So, the the the inerson

[2:09:13] ones will come up here. So, if you guys

[2:09:14] could move back to the seats just behind

[2:09:16] us um behind you, that would be great

[2:09:18] because anyone that's here will comment

[2:09:21] from there. Um, okay. We are moving on

[2:09:25] to public comment.

[2:09:28] Anyone wishing to make public comment

[2:09:30] who is attending remotely, please raise

[2:09:32] your hand in the Zoom application. If

[2:09:35] you are present in the town room and

[2:09:36] have not signed up with the clerk,

[2:09:37] please do so now. Uh comments and

[2:09:40] questions on this particular topic can

[2:09:42] also be submitted at hampshireampus

[2:09:44] zoningstudy.com.

[2:09:47] Uh residents are welcome to make public

[2:09:48] comments on matters within our

[2:09:50] jurisdiction. The council will not

[2:09:51] engage in a dialogue or comment on a

[2:09:53] matter raised during general public

[2:09:55] comment. Public comments are not

[2:09:56] reflective of the opinions of the

[2:09:58] council. The first amendment broadly

[2:10:00] protects individuals rights to address

[2:10:02] the government, to speak, and to express

[2:10:04] themselves, including their right to

[2:10:05] stay to say hateful and offensive

[2:10:08] things. I am generally unable to shut

[2:10:10] those commenters down under the first

[2:10:12] amendment to the US Constitution, unless

[2:10:14] their level of speech falls within an

[2:10:16] exception articulated by the courts,

[2:10:18] such as fighting words. true threats to

[2:10:21] a particular individual, harassment of a

[2:10:23] particular individual, or incitement of

[2:10:25] imminent lawless activity. If a question

[2:10:28] exists as to whether a particular

[2:10:30] speaker is engaging in unprotected

[2:10:32] speech, I must defer to the principle of

[2:10:34] freedom of speech.

[2:10:38] There are no hands raised on Zoom. Um,

[2:10:42] and how many people in the town room?

[2:10:43] >> Just one.

[2:10:44] Um, so everyone I will give

[2:10:47] you three minutes since we expected a

[2:10:49] little more public comment and that's

[2:10:50] why I had announced two, but I will move

[2:10:52] it up to three. Um, Athena,

[2:10:55] >> Vince O' Conor.

[2:10:56] >> Vince, please come on up, state your

[2:10:57] name and where you live and make your

[2:10:58] comment.

[2:11:19] Okay, I got this one.

[2:11:20] >> No, now it's gone.

[2:11:22] >> Um,

[2:11:23] yeah.

[2:11:25] So, thank you for the three minute.

[2:11:39] Vince, you just need to hold that button

[2:11:40] down so that the microphone stays on.

[2:11:44] >> Yeah. Okay. I attended both open houses,

[2:11:48] evenings for the Amethyst Brook uh

[2:11:50] school openings

[2:11:52] um and providing transportation for two

[2:11:55] separate families on each one on each

[2:11:58] night. On local radio, I heard only one

[2:12:02] person speak about the school, the

[2:12:05] person who had led the opposition to the

[2:12:08] Fort River site.

[2:12:11] Today for the fourth day of school,

[2:12:14] public school in Amoris, I drove an

[2:12:17] elementary school student to another

[2:12:19] public school and was confronted

[2:12:22] by the possibility that what is

[2:12:24] apparently happening in Stanford,

[2:12:26] Connecticut,

[2:12:28] um where parents drop their children off

[2:12:30] and then they are being seized by ICE

[2:12:34] and Border Patrol operatives.

[2:12:38] um that

[2:12:41] those of us who who do drop children off

[2:12:44] will be confronted with the possibility

[2:12:47] that we will be witnessing

[2:12:50] these individuals

[2:12:53] uh perhaps sees not only parents but

[2:12:56] children.

[2:12:58] uh and I do happen to know fam blended

[2:13:01] families who attend that school

[2:13:05] and I know that there are children who

[2:13:07] are US citizens

[2:13:10] who could be grabbed. And my concern

[2:13:13] about all of these guidelines for

[2:13:16] schools from the state and from the town

[2:13:20] manager

[2:13:22] ignore the fact

[2:13:24] that and in fact state nothing about

[2:13:27] what

[2:13:29] the police authorities are going to do

[2:13:32] because the kidnapping laws of

[2:13:34] Massachusetts

[2:13:36] say the first four words are whosoever

[2:13:40] without lawful authority.

[2:13:43] And neither border patrol nor ICE have

[2:13:47] any authority over US citizens.

[2:13:50] And what we cannot

[2:13:53] seem to get out of the manager or the

[2:13:56] state authorities is what they are going

[2:13:59] to do on the spot to intercede

[2:14:04] with for ch on behalf of children or

[2:14:07] parents who can prove their citizenship

[2:14:12] and are being taken away. I mean, yeah,

[2:14:15] maybe in two months they can get out.

[2:14:17] They can spend their entire savings, the

[2:14:19] money they'd saved up to uh put a down

[2:14:22] payment on a house. They can pay to a

[2:14:24] lawyer who can fly to Texas to some

[2:14:26] godforsaken place in a in a federal

[2:14:29] district that has one judge.

[2:14:33] >> Please wrap up.

[2:14:34] >> And what? So, we have no guidance. We

[2:14:37] have no assurance from the manager's

[2:14:40] guidance and the board has sat here and

[2:14:43] done nothing about it and you cannot do

[2:14:45] that. We

[2:14:47] >> what happened in Stanford, Connecticut

[2:14:49] could happen here and we need

[2:14:52] >> the citizens of this town to feel that

[2:14:54] they are going to be protected by the

[2:14:56] people whose salaries they pay in the

[2:14:59] police department.

[2:15:00] >> Thank you so much for your comments. We

[2:15:02] have one raised hand now on Zoom. Bruce

[2:15:04] Steedman, please uh unmute yourself,

[2:15:06] state your name and where you live, and

[2:15:08] make your comment.

[2:15:10] >> Um, this is Castle O'Neal. I'm Bruce and

[2:15:13] Bruce Steedman's wife. I live at 20

[2:15:15] Mount Holio Drive in Ammerst. Um,

[2:15:19] [clears throat]

[2:15:20] when you were talking about reaching out

[2:15:22] to the workforce to find out what kind

[2:15:24] of housing they might be looking for,

[2:15:27] I'd suggest talking to the staffs of the

[2:15:30] public schools because I hear that one

[2:15:33] of the concerns about [clears throat]

[2:15:35] having so many snow days is it's not

[2:15:38] that the kids can't get to school, it's

[2:15:40] the teachers who can't afford to live in

[2:15:42] Ammerst and have to drive in from the

[2:15:44] hilltowns can't get to the school. So,

[2:15:47] my sense is there's a lot of admin, uh,

[2:15:50] teachers, other school staff who would

[2:15:53] love to live in Ammerst and can't afford

[2:15:55] to live here and could probably have a

[2:15:57] lot to say about what kind

[2:15:59] [clears throat] of housing they'd want.

[2:16:03] >> Thank you for your comment.

[2:16:06] >> We have no other hands raised, so we are

[2:16:09] going to close public comment. Um, there

[2:16:11] are not topics anticipated,

[2:16:14] unanticipated topics. I want to thank

[2:16:17] all of our consultants. We've had one on

[2:16:18] Zoom all evening. We have three here. Um

[2:16:21] particularly though Nate and Peter who

[2:16:23] sat up here the whole time and answered

[2:16:25] some questions and presented them and

[2:16:26] made the presentation and all. Um this

[2:16:28] is a huge amount of work for not just

[2:16:31] you all but for Jeff too. Um and the

[2:16:34] town is organizing this and all and in a

[2:16:36] short timeline. Um we look forward to

[2:16:40] the continued public process and seeing

[2:16:42] the results of that public process. um

[2:16:45] as we move forward to seeing your goal

[2:16:49] of zoning in January. That is quite

[2:16:52] ambitious. Um so thank you all for that

[2:16:56] tonight. Um I will make the motion to

[2:16:58] adjurnn. Is there a second?

[2:17:00] >> Shane seconds.

[2:17:01] >> Thank you. Um we will move on to voting.

[2:17:04] Councelor Brevik,

[2:17:05] >> yes.

[2:17:06] >> Councelor Kenno Martin,

[2:17:07] >> yes.

[2:17:08] >> Andy Churchill,

[2:17:09] >> yes.

[2:17:10] >> Anna Devongier,

[2:17:11] >> hi.

[2:17:11] >> Lynn Greamer,

[2:17:12] >> hi.

[2:17:13] >> Mandy Johani is an I. Councelor Lord.

[2:17:15] >> Hi.

[2:17:16] >> Dam Mloud.

[2:17:17] >> Hi.

[2:17:17] >> Pam Rooney.

[2:17:18] >> Yes.

[2:17:19] >> Councelor Ryan.

[2:17:20] >> Hi.

[2:17:21] >> Kathy Shane.

[2:17:22] >> Yes.

[2:17:22] >> Jennifer Tob. Yes. And Councelor Walker.

[2:17:25] >> Yes.

[2:17:26] >> We are adjourned at 8:47 p.m. Thank you

[2:17:29] so much.

Town Council Aug 31, 2026

Agenda

Transcript