[0:28] We'll call the meeting to order at 6:00. I'll ask the clerk if anyone is

[0:34] participating electronic, please. >> Uh, yes, we have both of our presenters

[0:38] on tonight and two members of the public.

[0:54] And next is the adoption of the agenda. Everyone had a chance to see it. I need

[0:58] a modern.

[1:10] So the motion is moved by councelor Tar, seconded by councelor Ross.

[1:15] Please resolve that this meeting agenda dated Monday, August 10, 2026 be

[1:21] adopted. Questions, comments? None. I'll call for a vote. All in

[1:27] favor? Ear?

[1:32] » We do have another member of the signed in.

[1:40] Anybody

[1:47] have a conflict of interest to declare? None at this time.

[1:53] Brings us right to uh presentations and delegation this evening. We have uh

[1:59] David Butler, financial consultant, and Keith Harman,

[2:04] planning consultants, and they have a presentation for Rosemount Valley Suite

[2:08] and a governance plan. Gentlemen, welcome. And uh the floor is

[2:14] yours. >> Thank you very much. Can everybody hear

[2:17] me? Okay.

[2:20] Can everybody hear me? >> Yes. Oh, okay. I wasn't too sure.

[2:27] Well, thank you very much for allowing us to present virtually. I appreciate

[2:31] that. Uh Dave's on as well. Um we're here to present our strategic plan for

[2:39] Rosemont Valley Suites. Uh as you recall earlier this year there was a resolution

[2:43] as approved by council uh that a basically authorized uh Dave

[2:48] and I to develop a detailed transition plan uh for Rosemand Valley Suites

[2:56] outline the steps responsibilities the timeline required uh to support the

[3:02] transfer and long-term sustainability of the project.

[3:07] So several months later uh Dave and I met

[3:12] with all the stakeholders and uh to undertake to develop this strategic plan

[3:19] uh and it's possible. So uh in our report and I'm not going to go over the

[3:23] whole report with you. We had some goals that we wanted to share and some

[3:29] objectives that were important is that we wanted to establish the u presence of

[3:36] an independent nonprofit organization for Rosemont Valley Suites. We also

[3:42] wanted a way to figure out a way to sell and transfer uh the Rosemont Valley

[3:47] Suites facility to the NPO thereby getting it off the town books uh and

[3:54] removing the associated mortgage and all the debt uh from the misfall books. So

[4:01] that would eliminate the responsibility to town to manage the day-to-day

[4:06] operations and take the financial debt off of the that of the municipality.

[4:11] So so we wanted to initiate a sustainable financial operating plan for

[4:18] Rosemont Valley Suite. So to do that we had to meet with uh all the stakeholders

[4:24] including the banks and the property manager uh to get all of the current

[4:28] information which we have completed and uh Dave has and we've put together this

[4:35] proposed transition plan. It basically is a complete financial review.

[4:41] » Hold on. Hold on. >> Councelor Mick joined me online.

[4:45] » Okay. Sorry about that. Um, we good to go.

[4:50] » Yeah. So, Councelor Mick, we have uh Dave Butler and uh

[4:55] » and Keith Arman giving a presentation virtually for uh for Rosemont Valley

[5:01] Suites, not for profofit group. >> Wonderful. Thank you. Um and welcome

[5:07] Dave and Keith. Nice to see you again. >> Thanks Lauren. Um so carry on. Uh our

[5:13] proposed transition plan is this. Uh first we do a financial uh review uh

[5:19] analyzing all of the necessary costs uh determined to update the costs

[5:24] obligations legal requirements associated with transferring the

[5:28] ownership to the facility. The next of course is establish a notfor-profit

[5:34] corporation uh and that uh involves uh getting board

[5:40] members uh soliciting input from the community getting council representation

[5:46] with a proper governance framework uh in updating the articles of incorporation

[5:53] and corporate bylaws that are governed under the nonprofit uh act. and uh a set

[6:00] of government policies including uh board procedures and conflict of

[6:07] interest policies. There's a number of policies there's about 12 of them

[6:10] actually that all have to be made current in in align with the nonprofit

[6:15] act. So and uh assist the board in establishing a sound financial

[6:22] management practices including accounting procedures and practices,

[6:26] budget processes, financial reporting requirements, banking arrangements and

[6:31] internal financial controls. Then the next step is the transition of

[6:37] uh operations. We want to work with the existing property management that's

[6:42] DESCON management uh to ensure that it's a seamless transition from uh the

[6:48] municipality to the not forprofit and we've met with the DESCON and they're in

[6:53] agreement to working with us to make sure this happens. So the big thing of

[6:57] course is the municipal oversight agreement and that's where we provide

[7:02] the risk mitigation that there is no cost to the municipality Dave and Evan

[7:06] are taking to do all this work. all the costs associated with this thing are

[7:11] capitalized into the mortgage and it is no cost to the municipality. So in

[7:16] exchange for a limited mortgage guarantee by the municipality which they

[7:19] already provide uh this oversight agreement between the municipality and

[7:23] the NO for the purpose of the establishing operating policies and

[7:28] procedures and limits the authority and formal reporting relating to the

[7:33] activity of the senior facility. So that's how the Miss Valley still

[7:38] controls what goes on at the um Rosemont Valley suites, but uh the good thing is

[7:45] is that the debt comes off their uh their books. So what are the benefits to

[7:51] the town of Ottawa? Reduce municipal financial liability, freeing up borum

[7:55] for other projects, independent governance uh through a a

[8:00] community-based board of directors, long-term operational viability and

[8:04] sustainability, improved eligibility for future housing

[8:09] uh projects, enhanced organizational accountability,

[8:15] uh protection of an important community housing asset. Now, that's a really

[8:20] important thing because the goal of creating Rosemont Valley Suites several

[8:24] years ago was to provide housing for your seniors in the community. We want

[8:29] to protect that integrity at all costs. That's very important for the community.

[8:34] So, so

[8:38] obviously we're asking for council support to go to the next step. Um, if

[8:43] are there any questions uh before we go to the next level?

[8:50] Can everybody hear me? >> No, we'll save the questions for after.

[8:53] » Okay, sure. So, we're what we're asking for council consideration is after Dave

[8:58] and I have spent uh quite a bit of time talking to the stakeholders and meeting

[9:02] with the various people. The next step of course is to do it. And so, we're

[9:07] asking for a letter of intent from council giving us authority uh to

[9:12] proceed with that and uh a fee for service invoice. so that if we do it, we

[9:18] know we're going to get paid. I think that's fair. So, um you'll see from our

[9:25] professional fees and associated costs, we have to pay lawyers, we have to pay

[9:29] the banking fees, and of course, David, I need to get reimbursed for our

[9:34] services. So,

[9:38] so recommendation and next steps. Council receives a report and

[9:43] information authorizes us to uh proceed with the implementation of the

[9:49] transition plan. It's pretty straightforward. Council directs

[9:53] municipal staff to receive, review, and finalize a formal letter of engagement

[9:57] in the fee for service contract as mentioned.

[10:01] So the council and the staff recognize that the time of the essence especially

[10:05] with respect to the items below with cash flow uh Dave has to complete a

[10:10] current proforma uh to demonstrate that it is sustainable and we've done that

[10:16] and the review of the uh municipal annual payment uh uh ARIRL.

[10:23] So I think uh at this stage we're ready to discuss uh what the options are and

[10:30] if there are any questions from council and we're just looking for support from

[10:34] council. The whole intent of this thing is is to protect the integrity of

[10:40] Rosemount at the same time is get the debt off the municipal books. Uh it's a

[10:45] lot of money to be sitting on your books transfer the no so that you can proceed

[10:50] with other projects as required. So that's basically our presentation

[10:58] and I'm open for questions now. >> Okay. Any questions? [snorts]

[11:06] » Anybody around the table have any questions? Councelor Mick, do you have

[11:10] any questions? >> Um, no, no questions from here, but I'm

[11:15] happy to move the motions put forward in the report. Um it's nice to see things

[11:20] sort of picking up where we left them off uh from the committee level and

[11:24] makes sense to me.

[11:29] Councelor Le,

[11:34] » after we move the motion to accept your report and move on to the next phase, is

[11:41] do you have a an idea of how long it will take before the process gets in

[11:46] place? >> So Dave and I are we who anticipated

[11:51] that type of question. Uh we expect that we could have this done within a month

[11:55] or two at the latest before the year end completed transferred into the MO and

[12:00] off your books. >> Okay. So now we'll fall into the next

[12:04] council month.

[12:07] » Thank you. >> Council Ross

[12:13] Council Gard here. Um,

[12:17] so I I kind of have some questions around, you know, the town would be the

[12:22] one guaranteeing the loan. So if the building is currently operating at a

[12:26] loss of approximately 70,000 per year, how would um how would the not for-p

[12:33] profofit uh plan to increase the income without having the town to um sign over

[12:38] that that uh that loss every year um until you guys can get to a positive

[12:43] cash flow? Obviously, it's losing money now. I get that you can increase rents

[12:46] and things like that, but that takes time. So, how do you make the mortgage

[12:50] payments from now until that time? >> Uh Dave, do you want to

[12:56] » Yeah. So, so um thank you, counselors and mayor. Um I've had some significant

[13:04] discussions with um the banking entity, which is the case alliance uh for this

[13:10] project. I've also had many discussions with the desk group who you have as

[13:17] managing uh the property. Um and I've looked at the historical numbers and uh

[13:24] one of the main uh issues is that the rental rates have never really been

[13:29] increased to any significant level for the last I don't know three and a half

[13:33] years to be able to support um the future expenses. and um and I'm not sure

[13:41] why that is, but and I don't see that there's any real financial plan in place

[13:46] to kind of balance the books. So, so in discussions with the bank, um they're

[13:52] willing to do some changes for us and and uh just for example, they're willing

[13:58] to change the amortization from the current 35 years to 50 years. So that

[14:05] doing that drops the payment significantly down. Um they they we've

[14:11] talked about what kind of increases that we could establish on a on a regular

[14:16] basis over the next say 7 years. And um you know we'll need to increase rents

[14:22] every year by about 5%. And when the um and when the people move out, they'll go

[14:29] to market rents because the people don't know the difference when they move into

[14:35] this. It's not there to be an affordable housing complex. It's there to provide

[14:40] seniors with attainable housing and try to and nobody can operate it at a loss.

[14:46] So rents will have to come up. Uh we'll have to reduce expenses. We've talked to

[14:52] some of the suppliers of um this facility and they're willing to reduce

[14:56] their fees as well. And the bank is willing to look at sculpting payments.

[15:02] Now, I know that sounds like an odd odd word, but some banks will look at the

[15:07] established cash flow plan and then come up with a payment plan that matches

[15:12] that. So, you're never going into the hole. And as the project starts to

[15:16] gather some additional revenue through the rental rate program increases, then

[15:22] they will start imposing some of the payments that that were missed or we can

[15:27] change the interestonly period again and extend it out for a couple more years uh

[15:32] taking advantage of that opportunity. So there's many many many things to do if

[15:37] everybody's cooperating. Uh I know that there's going to be a little bit of push

[15:42] back from um the community and probably the new board that we're going to

[15:49] establish in regard to how much we charge there because uh the original

[15:55] people were probably sold the bill of goods that you know this is an

[15:58] affordable place and rents are 800 and 900 and you could live there making uh

[16:03] on old age pension but that's not realistic anymore. And um so so we're

[16:09] going to h you're going to have to charge more and pay less. It's the only

[16:13] way that that you're going to make it work. Um the other thing that the

[16:17] nonprofit's going to be looking for is additional funding from different

[16:21] sources. Um and I know a hard pill to swallow is going to be the uh the

[16:26] municipality staying on as a um as a guarantor of the mortgage. Honestly, the

[16:32] bank's never going to let you off the hook no matter what.

[16:36] banks do um but they will um reduce your exposure based on uh paying down the

[16:43] debt and things like creative things like that. So the next step when we come

[16:47] back to you with uh these uh these this plan because we're going to come back to

[16:52] you with a full financial plan that works um or else it it's not going to be

[16:58] a project, right? So, so in in speaking with everybody and we spent a I spent a

[17:05] lot of time on it working with your bank and getting approvals at senior levels

[17:09] to rework the financial component and they're pretty optimistic and they're

[17:14] pretty on side and um and I spoke to desk and they're completely on side as

[17:20] well. So the the trick for you guys is going to be in like Keith mentioned in

[17:26] the uh oversight agreement that protects uh gives you some further protection in

[17:32] terms of uh being able to uh protect that guarantee that you have in place uh

[17:37] some sort of oversight and um that having representation on the board as

[17:43] far as being able to take over the board in the event of defaults that you set

[17:47] set out. So I don't want to get too deep into it now and I kind of hope that

[17:52] answer counselor answers your question to some degree. Those are kind of the

[17:56] the solutions that are floating around financial solutions and and they could

[18:01] go in many different directions but according to my sources and the things

[18:05] we've done before it is possible to uh make this thing make this thing work for

[18:11] a nonprofit. >> Okay. So, just out of that, from what

[18:17] I'm hearing, this would kind of end the affordable housing project that that

[18:20] once was, and it would become a a market rent building as tenants leave and new

[18:25] tenants move in. Is that >> I wouldn't go that I wouldn't go that

[18:29] far, counselor. I would just say that we have to look at when all the leases

[18:35] expire and come up with uh maybe not market rent. Maybe there's a level that

[18:40] we can use that will be still attainable or still semiafordable. I don't think we

[18:46] want to shock the community and put people and displace people. But when a

[18:51] new unit becomes available, um it's a new person. It's the apartment is

[18:56] refreshed, painted, and renovated and they move in and they if they know

[19:00] they're instead of we the last guy had it at $800. Well, somebody has a,000.

[19:04] it's not going to make any much difference if they agree and can pay

[19:08] $1,000, right? So, it's it's an isolated case. Um uh

[19:15] you know, that's just one of the solutions, but this will be a by

[19:18] committee. This will be discussed with the board. Um this won't be my total

[19:23] decision. I'm going to come up with some suggestions, but the board ultimately

[19:26] will approve the new rate uh the new uh rental rate program. Um it's not just

[19:33] me. So there'll be a lot of input on that and um so

[19:36] » and remember you you still have a lot of tenants in there that are paying below

[19:40] market rent and will be playing below market rent for some time if we only

[19:45] increase the rents a minimal amount. >> Yeah.

[19:50] » To the community. >> Yeah. Like there's two units becoming

[19:54] available or just was becoming available and I'm not sure whether they got market

[19:58] rents or they just continued on with the same amount. I don't know what they were

[20:02] told to do or to say [snorts] from the town, but um but you know, as those

[20:08] become available, that's a dramatic effect on the bottom line. Uh and but

[20:14] minimum 5% for the next three years, those rents are going to have to go up

[20:18] up up to be able to catch up in the next 5 years for the for the place to be

[20:24] breaking even or revenue neutral. um because no nobody can operate it at

[20:29] $70,000 a year loss or even a $10,000 a year loss and there's no cash reserve

[20:35] being built with that that this thing has to have a cash reserve. There's

[20:38] always going to be issues or problems in the future, right? And you need to head

[20:43] take them head on with that reserve. So right now I don't think there's a there

[20:48] was a reserve but uh you finished off with the intereston period and mortgage

[20:55] kicked in and that's what made the uh the higher payments

[20:59] but it can't be interest only forever. No bank is going to do that. Right. So

[21:05] » would would this not for profofit uh once everything is complete would they

[21:09] pay taxes to the town or is this a project that would be like requesting

[21:14] waiver from taxes or a phased in approach to taxes or how would that

[21:18] work? >> So so that's another discussion. Um

[21:21] we're not reporting anything uh for the on behalf of the town. I don't think

[21:26] there was a facilities bylaw key put in place originally for this cuz we never

[21:30] got to the nonprofit. But you know what? It's a very good point because sometimes

[21:35] taxes make or break these things. I know that there'll have to be a grace period

[21:40] for taxes at the very least and then uh if you have a comm a CIP in place maybe

[21:46] there's some provision for graduating the taxes in um but if it's going to be

[21:52] a you know an op a business within the

[21:55] community I mean the town has to get some benefit out of eventually. So taxes

[22:00] are going to be a a contentious issue, but they have to be discussed and again

[22:06] um it's part of the board negotiating with the town. Um it can go many

[22:12] different ways. I don't know what the sentiment is in in Madawa, but I think

[22:17] » all the projects we've worked on, there always is a a graduated uh tax

[22:22] implementation that like it could be over three years or could be five years

[22:26] where you build up to full taxes after about five years.

[22:31] » Okay. >> Would the acquisition of the building be

[22:34] asis? I know that there's been some debate on the roof and whether it was

[22:38] fixed properly or not. Um, so would the would the uh sale be asis or would there

[22:44] be uh conditions on anything? Um, >> I've spoken to the bank answer about

[22:49] that exact issue and yeah, it's going to have to be asis. We don't expect the

[22:54] town to go out of pocket for any money on this project. If we check with desk

[22:59] and we find that there's I think the roof was repaired. I think the town used

[23:04] the money from the reserve account and paid and fixed the roof and I'm not

[23:08] exactly sure. So, I I shouldn't really even say that, but that was my

[23:12] understanding. And um so I I think it's an ASIS uh um transfer or sale. And we

[23:20] have to be careful. I'm going to check with the tax lawyers on on how we

[23:24] transfer that, whether it's for the amount of financing a sale or it's for

[23:29] $1. We have to watch out for the uh um t tax issue. Um, so [snorts] we uh, so

[23:37] that's that has to be discussed, but but essentially for a dollar and and you're

[23:43] going to be relieved of all your responsibilities. One thing we hadn't

[23:46] talked about, which was there's probably some trailing liability, which is the

[23:51] debt uh, for the Al Gangquin. There's probably some money left over there to

[23:56] pay. I'm not sure that that can be discussed as well. I'm sure it's been

[24:00] paid down quite a bit by now, but we don't want the town to have any re any

[24:05] financial responsibility and it shouldn't be other than just helping

[24:09] them leverage their goodwill for the mortgage. Other than that, uh shouldn't

[24:14] be paying anything. This should stand on its own. And honestly,

[24:19] um, one of the rules with the, uh, the ARIRL,

[24:26] um, being treated as a contingent liability is the fact that nobody

[24:32] contemplates uh, subsidies from the municipality.

[24:37] So if the if this if the uh the intent is to um and I've done a lot of research

[24:44] on this like if if the intent is that the municipality's understanding is once

[24:49] they sell it and it's a standalone entity then the ARIRL doesn't get

[24:55] affected and it goes to contingent liability. But if there's a chance or

[25:01] somebody thinks that they're going to have to pay a subsidy to nonprofit to

[25:05] keep it alive, you don't get relief on the ARIRL. So, we really have to be

[25:09] careful with the way that that's portrayed. Um, we don't want the town to

[25:14] have to even think about paying any money for anything in the future. That's

[25:18] why we got to build cash reserves. >> Okay. So, then um you answered all these

[25:25] questions for me already. So, the timeline for the town being a guaranter,

[25:28] like you talked about, potentially um extending on to a 50-year loan term. Um,

[25:33] but obviously at some point that debt gets repaid and then there's equity in

[25:37] the building. Um, I I know that nobody has a a magic uh crystal ball to look

[25:42] into, but what would you foresee like the town being the guaranter for the

[25:46] entire 50 years? Do you think we get to a point where there's enough equity in

[25:49] the building that the bank is comfortable with um with that and

[25:53] letting the not for profofit um hold the mortgage on their own because of the the

[26:00] uh >> yes this is one thing counsel I hate to

[26:03] cut you off is that it's super important question you have there because um a lot

[26:08] of times in the oversight agreement uh it's written right in there that after a

[26:12] period of so say 5 years for example uh that you revisit at the mortgage again

[26:18] and and refi the project to be able to withdraw some of your limited guarantees

[26:23] and it should gradually go down based on the exposure. You shouldn't be

[26:27] guaranteeing, you know, uh 5 million and there's only 100,000 left on the

[26:33] mortgage. I It doesn't make any sense, right? So, um, so we're going to have to

[26:38] have that as a discussion point in the oversight agreement that, uh, you know,

[26:42] the town's liability gets reduced based on the, uh, balance outstanding

[26:47] evaluated each year or every 5 years or whatever, uh, or that the NPO undertakes

[26:53] to review that process. You're going to have to have some language in there that

[26:57] triggers that that uh, discussion because otherwise everybody will forget

[27:02] about it. Right. Right. And my last one just um the makeup of the board. Um if

[27:10] the town is guaranteeing the loan um would we be able to consider that um

[27:15] either we have uh a few council members on that board u preferably a majority or

[27:21] at the very least um that members of that board are appointed by by this or

[27:26] or any council until such a time as the town isn't the guaranter anymore. um at

[27:31] least then the town would have to say in who is operating the building. Um

[27:36] understanding that it would be a separate uh board, an arms length board.

[27:40] » I'll let Keith answer that. He's more in tune with the NPOS's.

[27:44] » It also is a very good question. Absolutely. We want because you are

[27:48] providing the guarantee, you want to have control over it. Uh therefore you

[27:53] should have representation from council with a reporting mechanism and that's

[27:58] all spelled out in the oversight agreement council and it can change from

[28:04] uh from election to election as to who sits in there but it the board

[28:08] composition will be made up of representation with the majority holding

[28:13] from with power from the council and community members at large. You have to

[28:19] you have to be able to protect your asset and that's the guarantee.

[28:24] And you're right after 15 years if if the town is no longer providing a

[28:29] guarantee or or is the limited guarantee is so such that you don't want anything

[28:35] to do with it, then you just have one person on council or on the board or

[28:39] nobody. But for the time being, you definitely want to have a couple. And

[28:43] you want to pick people in the community and on council that have a vested

[28:48] interest and want to make sure this >> works for the community.

[28:53] » Yeah. And and from from my experience um generally

[28:57] uh that um uh nonprofit boards are um generally have low capacity to be able

[29:06] to manage these projects. Thus that's why we have the property management

[29:09] company desk on right. they don't have the time, they don't have the knowledge

[29:12] and so on. Uh and they don't have the people they're willing from the

[29:17] community to do it. In this particular case in Madawa, it's kind of an anomaly

[29:22] because you guys have a lot of people that that were running uh set up this

[29:27] project as a community kind of like a committee of council board that were

[29:33] were amazing. And some of the people are actually in the room and u and so that

[29:39] would be exciting if those people could uh you know uh generate uh donate some

[29:44] of their time to be on this board as well until uh such time as that they we

[29:49] put some new people on. But but you really do need to have your oversight uh

[29:55] during the the critical periods of this project when it before it becomes

[30:00] financially stable because um there's a lot of decisions that have to be made

[30:05] and have to be made responsibly. So

[30:14] » any other questions from the table? >> I had some questions but they're all

[30:19] answered. D. No questions there. Uh, councel, any questions?

[30:25] » I I saw one about the guarantor. So, um, is there a way to almost have a contract

[30:32] so that that we would be the guarantees for like say five years that is when you

[30:37] would be paying tax and then obviously those five years that they exactly would

[30:40] be happening but the NPO finds another guarantor that then carry on from there.

[30:47] I'm using [clears throat] five years as a as a

[30:50] » in an ideal world, counselor, it would be great if it could stand alone by

[30:55] itself and have enough credibility and enough uh reserve fund and the asset be

[31:01] be reappraised and the bank look at it as a responsible entity and you wouldn't

[31:06] need to be involved whatsoever. In an ideal world, that's what you're shooting

[31:10] for. Uh, I believe that the town is simply just a crutch at this point to

[31:16] hobble the project along until that community asset runs on its own and it's

[31:21] responsible and it's financially responsible as well. So, I don't see the

[31:25] town staying there forever and ever. And I never see that in any community. I

[31:30] never want to have that because it's uh it's just not the way to do it. So,

[31:36] um, uh, so if you're looking after your constituents, you want to, you're right,

[31:41] uh, have this guarantee expire at some point or modify at some point to be able

[31:47] to really meet the needs of what the what the nonprofit needs at the time.

[31:51] And hopefully that debt will be paid down and uh and refinanced cuz honestly

[31:58] you you know and I I'm not sure why the project wasn't wasn't being sold uh and

[32:03] there weren't more takers because if you look at the asset itself uh there was

[32:08] inherent asset uh value when uh it when you spent 5 million on it um like you

[32:16] had a couple million dollars just because of the structure. So, if that

[32:19] place was appraised properly and the rents were normal, uh, you would

[32:24] probably come in with an $8 million appraisal value, and I'm, and this is

[32:28] just guessing. This is just gut feel based on my experiences.

[32:32] So, so you got a lot of value there. Um, not just the 5 million that that's

[32:38] outstanding. There's probably worth $8 million if you got right down to putting

[32:42] a business case together. Uh but in the state it's in regarding their rental

[32:47] rate programs and the possible negative income each year, it it drags that down

[32:53] because appraisers look at, you know, income approach, cost approach,

[32:57] comparative studies. There's a lot of things that that drive those prices that

[33:02] you need to have when you're refinancing or you're re-evaluating the program. So,

[33:07] we need to get it in good shape. When I say we, I mean the nonprofits got to get

[33:11] it in good shape. And you know, we're not going to do this and run away. Keith

[33:15] and I [snorts] are on projects that finished two years ago, honestly, and

[33:20] doing uh helping them reorganize some of the financial affairs of them because

[33:24] they always need to be adjusted. So, we're going to we're going to hang in a

[33:28] little bit with the the NPO board as they start to mature to help them uh

[33:33] work that cash flow problems out. So, so you know, it's uh it's just one of those

[33:40] things. It just needs some some tender loving care of this place, right? It's a

[33:45] beautiful, beautiful facility and the people are so nice and it seems to be

[33:49] running well and [snorts] we just need to get it off the town's books and get a

[33:54] financial plan going and to make it stable. And so we don't plan on the town

[33:58] being hooked into this place forever. They they got other fish to fry. They

[34:02] got the hill up there to finish that development. You've got other projects

[34:07] to do like the arena and so on. you need to free up your capital to do those

[34:12] kinds of projects. Um, [snorts] you put enough effort into this one already,

[34:16] honestly. So, [gasps] that's all I really have to say.

[34:22] Sorry for being so frank, but that's kind of what we are is transparent.

[34:27] » That's where the bike has another question.

[34:28] » I got a couple actually. Um when you is there levies that you can

[34:34] set in there like uh they say it's going to be low geared income for seniors but

[34:41] some people sell their homes and they move in there and they have lots of cash

[34:45] in the bank >> is uh pardon me.

[34:50] So I was just wondering that board that's going to manage this thing, they

[34:56] going to have any power or jurisdiction of maybe imposing levies uh looking at

[35:03] what the geared income is for these people? I know some seniors are in there

[35:07] now are having a hard time and trying to meet their ends, meet their living cost

[35:13] and everything else, but there's some people that are in there that got a lot

[35:16] of money than when they sold their house. So they move into a a situation

[35:21] where they pay low rent. Uh everything is covered. So I'm just wondering about

[35:28] the board. Can they would they have that power or can they be put into a a plan

[35:34] as you fix up the financial situation for the town to sell it? because we had

[35:40] discussed it before that we'd like to put 90 more units on there that could

[35:46] make it worthwhile for an investor to come in and buy the place.

[35:50] Then I know that it would change from a low geared income senior place to more

[35:56] or less uh price of today's rental in Toronto or North Bay or Seb.

[36:04] I'm just >> so maybe I could uh maybe I could jump

[36:06] in and answer that is that in every project we work on what we try to do is

[36:11] establish the rent the rents that the community at large can afford without

[36:18] and and that's even before we rented the the units out. the board with a mixture

[36:24] of council and community members at large would have the ability to through

[36:30] the oversight agreement to adjust the rents accordingly. Now the challenge you

[36:37] have as as you've mentioned is that if you have one tenant simply because you

[36:42] know they sold their house for half million and that money is sitting in the

[36:45] bank. the challenge you have is charging more rent for one unit that's identical

[36:51] to the unit beside it. Uh because the tenants in there don't have all the

[36:56] money. So that's a really difficult thing for you to to propose to do. uh

[37:03] rather than you know if it's financially sustainable and you are charging less

[37:09] than the market rents and you see a plan where you gaining equity the town gets

[37:14] off the books and everything else that seems to be something that is more

[37:18] realistic for the community. I mean every town, every project we do in every

[37:23] town, there are people who definitely have their equity in their house, but

[37:27] they so they they dip into that equity that they sell their house for plus

[37:32] their CPP OAS so that they can afford to live in these places because you don't

[37:37] know what people's financial situations are like. If they can afford it, if they

[37:42] can if they can afford the rent that you're proposing, then then in the in

[37:47] the it pays for the mortgage payment, then your plan works.

[37:52] » Yeah, Descon has quite a comprehensive um screening process. I know because

[37:57] they're working on several other projects with us right now that have

[38:01] just been completed and they're filling them up. So, I know where the what the

[38:05] criteria is and I know that it's pretty comprehensive and it doesn't put risk

[38:10] onto the municipality or the or the nonprofit, but honestly, the the new NPO

[38:17] will have all the power to set any rate that they want and any policy regarding

[38:22] the rates because the time this building was was made, the rules are completely

[38:27] changed. They're not governed by anything. They can when someone moves

[38:31] out they can they can jack the rate by three times if they want. I mean

[38:37] obviously you have to be sensitive to the occupancy. When you start jacking

[38:42] rates and people start leaving and the place is empty, you can't do that. So

[38:45] there has to be a a wellthoughtout approach to this rental rate thing. And

[38:50] it um that's one of going to be the main things that the new board is going to

[38:54] have to live with. I'm going to come up with numbers and present them to you uh

[38:59] before we go to the next stage that is going to it's going to be a plan in

[39:02] conjunction with the bank on how we're going to get to revenue neutral and

[39:07] revenue positive and what time that'll be and what those payments mean and all

[39:11] that kind of stuff. I have a a long road to do on that thing and it'll be

[39:16] presented to first I guess council and you guys when we come back uh to to you

[39:23] know people to see or make suggestions and I'm not sure Keith or whether that's

[39:27] going to go right to the board that kind of program or it's going to go to

[39:31] council but this is going to be the challenge but the board the board has

[39:34] the right to do whatever they want they have to look after the project there's

[39:40] no way it's sustainable losing money and doesn't have a cash reserve, it's

[39:44] worthless. Um um these when you charge

[39:50] affordable rates, if they're not subsidized somehow, then they they don't

[39:54] work. And uh people are are [snorts] used to paying over $1,000 a month. Now,

[40:01] I mean, we don't build them now until the rates are under 1,500, like a month

[40:06] per suite, and two bedrooms, like 15,6,700,

[40:10] and they're jam-packed full waiting lists in all of the smaller communities.

[40:14] So, how we got to $800 a month, I'm not

[40:18] quite sure. I think it was a chance to to let the uh just the seniors who

[40:25] couldn't pay much uh to actually get into a place, but like counselor

[40:30] mentioned, there are seniors in there that are um sold houses and have nest

[40:35] eggs of money that can probably pay. Where else are they going to go? Right.

[40:39] So, uh I this is just >> ask your question.

[40:44] » I don't know. But the board has the power to

[40:48] » by law to charge whatever they want on an an on the anniversary date of the

[40:53] increase like 4 5 6 7 8 9 10% if they want and when a person moves out they

[40:58] can charge whatever they want. I looked at some of those units over there and

[41:03] like my god they're the one when you walk in the front door just to the right

[41:07] that twobedroom that's in there that is huge. That's bigger than some houses.

[41:12] Like it's just beautiful place. Like that should be over $2,000 a month that

[41:18] place in rent and and I I think it's like under a thousand. Like I don't like

[41:23] I don't really know. But that all has to stop. I mean I'm looking out for the

[41:27] interest of the town and the nonprofit and I may be offending people in this

[41:31] room but but I'm a realist. You got to charge more. Cut your cost. So

[41:37] » Okay. We have another question here. Councelor Tair.

[41:41] Um if if this council decides uh on a say a

[41:48] formula uh say a onebedroom is a,000 the twobedroom is 1,500 or whatever we could

[41:57] if somebody moves out right now this council has the authority to uh raise

[42:02] the rents to a level say they're paying 900 now we

[42:07] could raise it to 1100 say until the board gets operated

[42:12] Does that work right? >> Absolutely.

[42:15] » Yes. Absolutely. >> Right now, council is the boss.

[42:18] » Okay. Is that council?

[42:23] » Yes. Thank you. >> Uh staff, any questions or comments?

[42:26] » Um I have a couple questions if I may. Um

[42:33] around finances and the operations and the question's been asked.

[42:38] Um it's just not clear to me

[42:43] um what the answer really is. And so you flag in the report that it's uh

[42:50] bleeding, you know, about $70,000 a year. The number is actually about

[42:55] 76,000 but close enough. So 76,000

[43:02] and

[43:05] on top of that there's fees that are identified you know upwards to 150,000

[43:11] in fees between consulting legal banking

[43:17] and which is roughly a couple years worth of losses if you think of it in

[43:22] those terms. Uh at the last meeting

[43:26] you indicated that the fees could be incorporated in the refinancing of the

[43:33] project so that the town who's already paying $76,000 a year wouldn't be paying

[43:40] another $150,000 a year one year over top of that 76.

[43:45] But then, you know, it's at a bigger principal payment to repay which you can

[43:50] say, well, there you know, you can negotiate interest only, but at interest

[43:53] only, you're just breaking even or or maybe um maybe having a bit of a loss.

[44:00] So, um so I'm not I'm just not seeing how a nonprofit makes any difference as

[44:07] to who makes the money or doesn't pay the money. Who's covering the lawsuit?

[44:12] right now the town of Maloy is and just having a nonprofit doesn't change the

[44:18] laws. It's still there. So I it's not clear to me what happens with that. Uh

[44:24] the second issue is um in the agreement um

[44:32] if title passes over to a nonprofit

[44:38] and the town maintains its guaranteed status as guarantor.

[44:45] So all the rest, you know, rests with the town and for

[44:50] whatever reason the nonprofit sells the building in a future transaction

[44:57] and makes money because the government introduced a new policy or whatever,

[45:03] maybe makes the project all of a sudden financially desirable and makes a ton of

[45:07] money. um the agreement I would like to see the town as should have a a stake in

[45:14] that is we we're only we're now responsible for the losses and we're

[45:19] going to be responsible for the losses we should also be sharing in the game if

[45:23] there were any. So that's a thought for you. And then lastly at the last meeting

[45:29] um talked about who some of the players might be that would be involved in that

[45:34] nonprofit and you indicated that you would come back at this meeting and you

[45:38] would share that but I haven't heard that. So so those are the things that

[45:42] the council would may want to hear that would help them make their decision

[45:47] going forward. >> So let me take a stab at that. I'm not

[45:52] too sure who's which staff member was talking about that. Uh but good

[45:56] questions. Uh as mentioned earlier, as Dave mentioned, is that by renegotiating

[46:02] the terms of the mortgage with either the case or with another institution, if

[46:08] you refinance the project to include all of those costs you're talking about, the

[46:14] legal fees, the banking fees, and our fees rolled into this thing, stretch it

[46:19] over a long period of time. uh it reduces the monthly payment. Therefore,

[46:25] uh and reduces the the monthly expenses. So that 76,000 a year disappears.

[46:33] So that's the whole idea. And then increase the rents as we mentioned

[46:37] earlier is that if there are some empty ones in there now, bring those up to

[46:41] market rent or close to market rent. So the the the sooner you get the rents up

[46:46] to something that is more sustainable, the sooner uh it is easier to gain

[46:53] equity. So that's the plan is is that without without doing anything, you're

[46:59] can you're going to continue losing 76,000 a year. So, and you're absolutely

[47:04] right, is that part of the oversight agreement has to be the language in it

[47:09] that says if the town uh has a stake in the project and they're willing to use

[47:16] their goodwill to support the project when there is equity gained in the

[47:20] project and if it's 10 years or five years or 10 years, they can negotiate a

[47:25] transfer of those the equity back to the town if it's for taxes or whatever.

[47:30] You're absolutely right. that's they do in a lot of the other centers. So, and

[47:35] the third question was is that I don't think we promised that we would come

[47:39] back with names of the board the potential board members. Uh we we would

[47:44] come back with a strategy that we would have to undertake to uh solicit input

[47:49] from the community and ask you council members who would like to sit on the

[47:54] board. That becomes the composition of the board.

[47:58] Yeah, I think I think Keith that that question was directed because in our

[48:03] previous meetings a year a year year and a half ago, we had tried to bring um

[48:09] people to the town that would work with a nonprofit but essentially were private

[48:15] individuals and that didn't work out and that is something we're not entertaining

[48:21] in this case. uh this nonprofit board uh will be truly a nonprofit. Nobody owning

[48:29] this. It's members from the community only. It's not going to be any type of

[48:34] ownership whatsoever. And I also would add to Keith uh that if if in the

[48:41] oversight agreement that the first of all, the nonprofit can't sell this

[48:45] property without the express written permission of the town. that's going to

[48:49] be your lawyer is going to expect that uh when your lawyer reviews this because

[48:54] the NPO will have their own lawyer to establish their case and you got a

[48:58] lawyer that's tough as nails there who will probably uh make sure you get your

[49:03] your what you need in it and I agree you should have all those rights that nobody

[49:07] can sell it and in the event that it is sold here's what you expect to get out

[49:11] of that for your contribution and so that's that's pretty good question and I

[49:17] think that I agree agree with all of that. I agree with those things. So, uh

[49:21] you'll be looking for that in the next round of documents. And please, by all

[49:26] means, whoever the staff member is, just uh bring those comments to the table

[49:31] because I think they're all worthwhile.

[49:35] » Anything else from staff? >> Okay, I'll uh I'll try and wrap it up. I

[49:40] had a bunch of points. A lot of them were touched up. Uh first of all, I want

[49:44] to thank you for for for the presentation. you obviously have a lot

[49:48] of expertise and experience in the domain. Uh just a few things that uh

[49:55] maybe I didn't get it right, but that were mentioned uh you know that we need

[50:00] to uh raise the rents uh and that we haven't done so far. As far as I'm

[50:06] aware, we have did two rounds of uh increases, one at 3%, one at 5%.

[50:14] So, so there has been some increases because we we truly understand that it's

[50:19] a way too far under market and we we can't make ends meet and unless you have

[50:26] a money tree, no one can make ends meet. >> Right. Exactly, man. And the name senior

[50:31] affordable housing may have to be tweaked to senior housing because uh I I

[50:38] think that's the direction that uh uh a not for profofit even is is going to go.

[50:45] I'm not saying at full market but at least at maybe a reduce but something

[50:50] that is going to make the building sustainable. Uh the timeline, someone

[50:55] asked a question, you said two months. And that's where I have an issue. Two

[51:00] months brings us into a brand new term of council. And I seriously question the

[51:07] fact that we are here tonight to move this ahead on the future council. Okay.

[51:15] So I I think some of the stuff through the question that councelor Tivera

[51:19] asked, you know, the town does have the uh the option that when someone leaves

[51:26] uh a unit to increase it. So you know, we could do that for the next two months

[51:31] if someone leaves and uh make sure that those rents get increased. I I totally

[51:36] agree that us because we we've carried this this far uh should put another

[51:42] increase uh any time. So I I think the anniversary is January 1st, so we could

[51:49] see maybe another 5% increase. uh the municipal oversight

[51:56] slashcontrol uh you know I'm I'm I'm I'm

[52:01] a little concerned about it in the fact that

[52:06] you know we we still all want to make sure that the uh

[52:11] the original idea of this building senior's building is carried on and that

[52:17] that was the idea again I'm saying maybe it's time to strike off the word of

[52:22] affordable. Um,

[52:26] who holds the uh who ends up holding the bag? I have a concern there. No matter

[52:31] what happens, you know, it's the town that's going to pick. If someone

[52:35] defaults in some wild idea, we don't know what's down the future, uh, we're

[52:41] still on the hook. And I agree with your statement that there's no lending

[52:45] institution out there that's going to let us off. I I I understand that. The

[52:51] other thing uh that was uh mentioned that there was a bit of reserve and we

[52:56] kind of chewed it up uh using uh using it for our deficit but then I think

[53:03] David you picked up on it you corrected it. Uh it was used

[53:08] for the roof plus the town had to contribute a little extra. my problem

[53:13] with the roof and no one came back to council to tell

[53:18] me differently, but out out on the street I hear that the roof still leaks

[53:22] and we got this fixed by professionals. So, we need to know if that roof is

[53:27] still leaking. So, so that's another thing. Um

[53:33] I I'll I'll repeat it again. We're we're less than 11 days from uh nominations

[53:39] closing and uh I I think uh there's if things

[53:45] don't change, we could be a lame duck on uh um August 21st, which means we can't

[53:52] make those decisions. There are no meetings. Uh we have two meetings in

[53:57] September. So, if we're lame duck, we can't touch that. And then the election

[54:03] is in October. And by the amount of people running this time around,

[54:08] if we survive the first lane duck period, we might be in lane duck after

[54:13] the election. So So I'd like to be very careful how we uh we move forward. I I

[54:19] don't think it's something that we want to uh rush. I I I like a lot of the

[54:26] ideas I I heard. I I think uh you know there's potential there, but I would

[54:31] like our staff with your group to maybe have a a look at your your proposal so

[54:39] staff is ready when we have a new term of council with your group to uh to

[54:44] update and uh and move it along. So that that's where I stand and if you want to

[54:50] touch up on it uh please do so. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, [clears throat]

[54:56] and thank you for correcting me on some of those points because I was

[55:00] generalizing and I was using a lot of hearsay and I apologize for that. But

[55:06] thank you for correcting me and you have all great points about uh taking that

[55:11] affordable name off the project and truly making it a senior's facility. But

[55:16] I think you're right. I mean, you have 11 days. We could get to a lawyer and

[55:20] transfer it over and have that done in 11 days, but that's not going to solve

[55:23] the problem because uh there's a lot of issues to work out and the big one's

[55:28] going to be that rent analysis and report and where do you go financially

[55:32] and that oversight agreement and just to kind of make sure you tie down a lot of

[55:36] these loose ends and there are a lot of them. um we will undertake I'm sure

[55:41] Keith I'm speaking for Keith too to work with staff during the lame duck period

[55:45] uh while there's uh some pressure off to kind of work through what that deal

[55:50] might look like and be ready for the council when they become into power

[55:55] again and be able to vote on the the project. I you know I'm like we're not

[56:00] here to hold your feet to the fire or do anything. We we love you guys. We we

[56:05] spent a lot of years in your town um with a lot of the counselors you see

[56:09] there today and committee members and even got familiar with the people that

[56:14] live there. So So we're we like your place and we're doing it because we love

[56:18] it, not because we want to get down into Meadow, try to make a bit of money. This

[56:23] is something that we don't want to see it fail. Our um any project we worked

[56:28] on, we've always stood by it and and tried to go back and help out. And this

[56:32] is just another typical example of that. So, uh, our intentions are is to to work

[56:38] with you. So, um, let's do that, Keith. I I I don't know what your feeling is.

[56:43] » I I I would agree. I mean, we certainly don't want to pressure council into

[56:47] making a decision and we certainly don't want to encumber potentially new council

[56:51] with something. Uh we're presenting an an idea that will help this council and

[56:57] or the new council uh start out the new year with a with a clean book hopefully.

[57:03] And so as Dave mentioned, we're willing to sit with staff and uh and to go to

[57:09] the next level and have a plan ready. And if this council wants to wait for

[57:13] the new council to vote on it, then that's your call.

[57:19] » Thank you for understanding. Uh for today,

[57:22] » I just want to ask um do you need a motion to move ahead

[57:28] with that or do you just need a a direction from this table?

[57:35] » I I I I think that we've agreed to them to contact uh start working on it.

[57:43] » We haven't agreed yet because we haven't heard from that.

[57:45] » Okay. for a friend group that just spoke,

[57:49] they're they're okay to hold off to try not to push everything and

[57:55] and I think we have to respect the fact that we're in an election.

[57:59] » I agree with >> and we're we're at the end of our term.

[58:02] » I'm agreeing with you >> and we're at the 11th hour and well, I

[58:06] just want to make sure that you you >> I'm agreeing with everything you're

[58:10] saying, but all I'm saying is do they need emotion or is direction good

[58:14] enough? like if if a motion to say that they can sit down with the staff and

[58:19] come up with a plan that's going to be presented to the new council or do you

[58:23] need just direction? >> Personally, I think you only need

[58:26] direction because by doing the resolution by doing the resolution,

[58:31] we're committing a future council. >> Okay.

[58:36] » And I I feel strongly about that. I apologize for it, but that's how I feel

[58:40] about it. Any other comments, Council Gardner?

[58:48] » I'm I'm not going to die on it either way, but I would think that we always

[58:52] say that council talks in in motions and and if we're directing somebody to do

[58:58] something, I think that this council should be saying it on paper. um maybe

[59:02] not along the lines of commitment beyond that, but in preparing a presentation

[59:07] um with more information for the next council, I think that that would be uh

[59:12] fair of us to do. Um not committing them to anything, but committing them to a

[59:16] future presentation I think is is fair, but I think that we talk through those

[59:21] motions and I think it's important to do that.

[59:23] » I I wouldn't die on that hill either. I think I totally agree. I'd like to

[59:30] make the motion. >> Do you like an order?

[59:34] » If you want to speak to the clerk, uh, please [clears throat]

[59:39] make a motion to uh to uh have our consultants sit down with

[59:46] staff, whichever you guys agree on, and of

[59:52] you they'll present to the

[59:57] plan for Rose Valley. I guess we should put that link in there, too.

[1:00:02] » You don't mind? I'd like to

[1:00:06] think it's best to have it on paper and it's on record.

[1:00:17] » Ask that question before the motion comes up.

[1:00:19] » Yeah, go ahead. Councelor Councelor Ross has a question. So, I I was just

[1:00:24] wondering a lot of nonprofits, they sometimes approach um we have uh what we

[1:00:31] call DESAD to get subsidies in place for some of the units like we have one in

[1:00:36] town called Castle Farm. So many units are subsidized. So many are market rent.

[1:00:41] Have you ever had nonprofits do that kind of thing?

[1:00:46] » We uh I'll answer that question. We did entertain on a project. We've actually

[1:00:52] been involved with DESAB. Uh but comes with conditions and if the DESAB want to

[1:00:59] get involved in the project, they want other than seniors involved in the

[1:01:05] project. >> So

[1:01:07] » So >> the the challenge you have is is that it

[1:01:11] comes with conditions. It's nice to have money from DESAB, but if you want to

[1:01:15] protect us, so there's four seniors, that won't happen.

[1:01:20] » Okay.

[1:01:23] Thank you.

[1:01:31] » Just we're waiting for the uh

[1:01:41] record that

[1:02:02] Okay. So, the motion reads uh and it's moved by councelor

[1:02:09] seconded by councelor Levike and councelor Leike requested a recorded

[1:02:14] vote. So, council directs staff to work with

[1:02:19] consultants David Butler and Keith Ariman on a plan to create a

[1:02:26] notfor-profit and bring the plan forward to the

[1:02:29] upcoming 2026 2030 council once in place.

[1:02:39] Questions, comments?

[1:02:46] If I may worship

[1:02:50] » again for absolute clarity. So I I heard a couple things. Uh there's the report

[1:02:57] from our consultant that says you want to spend

[1:03:03] round numbers 150,000, put a plan together, bring it to council. And then

[1:03:08] I heard council say not ready to prepare, not ready to make a decision on

[1:03:13] that. Let council make next council make the

[1:03:16] decision on that and have that budgeted and maybe next year's budget to do that.

[1:03:22] Whatever. >> That's kind of what I heard. And then I

[1:03:26] hear what council is going to vote on now, the motion. And if you could reread

[1:03:31] the motion, it says go ahead and do the plan, work with staff, and come back

[1:03:34] with the plan. And as we're are we telling them to spend 150,000 and come

[1:03:38] back with the plan to council. So I I don't have that clarity. If you could if

[1:03:42] you could let me know what I'm supposed to do with that.

[1:03:47] » Any comments? >> I I think it's just to to go over the

[1:03:52] plan with them. If the plan is is feasible, sustainable, then when the new

[1:03:56] council comes in, they would take the staff has input. They would take the

[1:04:01] plan, bring it forward to council and say this is what we have thought or

[1:04:07] would you be interested in intervening? >> That's what I thank you councelor Russ

[1:04:12] and that's how I took it as well. But in all due respect, they did provide a

[1:04:18] document >> and now

[1:04:20] » they did they did provide a document, but they also indicated that there's a

[1:04:25] lot more to get done >> with a lot more money that that motion

[1:04:31] there doesn't say, >> you know what I mean, you're going to

[1:04:35] open the door to spend 15,000, here's the information you need, or are you

[1:04:39] waiting for next council to say? Your second option to me is what we're

[1:04:44] looking at >> to wait the next council.

[1:04:46] » Absolutely. >> So that

[1:04:48] » we did say that in that motion. >> Well, can you reread the motion?

[1:04:52] » The council directs staff to work with consultants David and Keith on a plan to

[1:04:58] create a notfor-profit and bring the plan forward to the

[1:05:03] upcoming 2026 2030 council once in place.

[1:05:07] » Yeah. So work with staff, contact the lawyers, build a nonprofit.

[1:05:13] So if that's the direction the council, so be in, but that's what that says. Go

[1:05:17] spend some money. Go get a nonprofit. No.

[1:05:20] » All it's saying is to bring the to sit down and come up with the plan. Period.

[1:05:25] You're not to spend money. You're not going to see a lawyer. You're going to

[1:05:29] bring a plan back to the new council and they'll decide whether they want to go

[1:05:33] ahead with it. That's all I'm saying. so that it's not stale from now until the

[1:05:38] new council comes in. At least you can get the groundwork done. That's all I

[1:05:43] think that we're interested in. We're not interested in uh going out and

[1:05:46] getting the lawyers involved right now. That's not what I'm saying.

[1:05:53] » Amy, >> oh, I thought you had a question.

[1:05:56] » No, I'm writing. Yeah, gonna do an amendment to

[1:06:02] the motion if that's what is required. But I need

[1:06:04] » I think so for I think so >> then I need clarification further and

[1:06:08] further. >> Okay. So everything that was in there

[1:06:11] but to indicate that this this council is not committing to expenses

[1:06:18] any expenses you can work on this plan and find out all the details move it

[1:06:23] forward. That that's what I'm understanding. And

[1:06:27] once that's in in place, the new term of council can make the decision to go

[1:06:32] forward with the plan and spend the money. So we're that I think that that's

[1:06:38] what we're trying to say right now. So we're we're okay to look at the plan,

[1:06:43] but we're not okay to spend money on it until there's a new council in place.

[1:06:47] with the

[1:06:51] » So, so would it be fair that what you're kind of expecting is that they start to

[1:06:56] work on number one of the transition plan, which is the financial review

[1:07:01] and stopping at the established the not for-p profofit corporation.

[1:07:05] Uh otherwise, I'm just I'm struggling to understand what more they're going to

[1:07:09] accomplish other than bringing back this exact presentation to the next council.

[1:07:13] Uh and at that point, are they willing to start kind of part one without being

[1:07:20] compensated for it? Um and then the last point I have is that uh we have an

[1:07:26] amendment coming up, but again for procedure um somebody has to move the

[1:07:31] amendment, somebody has to second the amendment. Sorry.

[1:07:39] » Okay. Listening to the CEO. I I can see his point spending money because the way

[1:07:45] it's set up right now, the the motion is to go ahead and proceed. But

[1:07:52] why don't you just make an amendment to that to say that we're supporting the

[1:07:57] program that is brought forward but it only going to be effective in a new

[1:08:02] council at that time. We got to wait a couple of months in and wait before we

[1:08:07] get the new council in maybe three. So there's not much we can do. We can't

[1:08:11] change things and like mayor says we can go into lame duck and we can't do

[1:08:16] nothing anyway. So why don't we just amend it to say that we'll be proceeding

[1:08:22] with this uh the new plan in within the next council

[1:08:29] and not this council but put it in place that's all

[1:08:33] » I think Mr. But there

[1:08:39] you have Dave. >> Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Interrupt your

[1:08:43] discussion, Mayor. I um first of all, we're not asking the town to pay

[1:08:48] anything. So, the town's not committing to any money whatsoever because that's

[1:08:53] being built into the nonprofits bill. Second thing is we don't get much more

[1:08:58] detailed than we've just provided you with our starting to spend money and

[1:09:02] have lawyers involved and the banks involved and so on and so forth. If we

[1:09:06] gave you that detailed of a proposal, it's all done. You might as well just go

[1:09:10] do it yourself. And actually, you have enough here that your CEO who's an

[1:09:15] accountant could probably do all this himself. I mean, why even have us if

[1:09:21] you're, you know, if you've got the talent in house? We're only coming to

[1:09:24] you to try to help out, right? And uh that's we have to get paid something to

[1:09:28] help out. So, we're taking it off your back and coming from the NPO. So,

[1:09:32] there's no financial commitment whatsoever. And honestly, there isn't

[1:09:37] much more detail we're going to give anybody until we start having a

[1:09:40] commitment to all you're doing is selling the property to an NPO and

[1:09:45] taking the financing off your back. That's all you're committing to. Nothing

[1:09:48] else. So David, what what if the uh amendment

[1:09:52] would be that uh you know

[1:09:58] the way I want to put it? Thank you for the presentation but we will move this

[1:10:02] project to the next term of council. Leave it like that.

[1:10:06] » Your choice your choice. >> We'll write that.

[1:10:11] » I'm sorry. What am I writing? that >> we we uh we accept the presentation from

[1:10:18] the from the group this evening, you know, and we're going to move this

[1:10:23] uh >> we're going to move this whole plan to

[1:10:27] the next term of counseling.

[1:10:31] » Yeah. And um you can >> and you can reach out to us when you're

[1:10:36] ready. >> Exactly. Makes sense. And before we're

[1:10:39] not going to solicit a second for that amendment.

[1:10:42] » Yes. I'll move it.

[1:10:48] Sorry, I didn't hear you say

[1:10:56] Ross, you have another question. >> I I don't have a question. I just want

[1:10:59] to say please don't go away wait till the next council comes in.

[1:11:05] » There's no guarant there's no guarantees there. We have a lot of projects on the

[1:11:08] go. >> Yeah, we've got 10 projects we're

[1:11:11] working on right now. We're just squeezing this one in u as a gesture

[1:11:15] because of you're our friends. But quite honestly, uh if we keep coming to

[1:11:20] council like this, and it's a good thing we didn't drive up there because I would

[1:11:23] have probably broken the window on the way out. So, it's

[1:11:26] » [laughter] >> uh we're not going to keep wasting my

[1:11:28] time with this council. Uh they don't understand that it's not costing any

[1:11:33] money and we're getting you out of a bind. And quite frankly, your CIO can do

[1:11:37] the same thing if you just put him to the task. Why bother with us?

[1:11:43] So anyways, don't count on us coming back, but we're going to wait for your

[1:11:48] solicitation and ask us to come and help you because we're not going to come back

[1:11:52] and talk to you. So that's all I have to say.

[1:12:04] If there's no cost bear for what we're doing and what

[1:12:10] they're prepared to to do with the staff themselves, know where's the the

[1:12:18] problem of being concerned of or not creating, they're just going to continue

[1:12:24] doing and put the plan together. >> They said that what they presented, it's

[1:12:29] pretty well done. It's all there. That's what they said.

[1:12:35] So if you move forward, there's going to be costs. So um

[1:12:39] » there's no cost of community to the house.

[1:12:43] If you don't understand that, >> there's no cost right now. Well, I just

[1:12:48] taken off her taken off her book. >> I just heard differently that if we move

[1:12:53] forward those costs that were identified 17,000 15,000 and 100,000 for legal and

[1:13:00] everything, you know, we we don't have that in the budget. We So I and again,

[1:13:07] you know, we we're at the end of our term and I think uh the new council

[1:13:11] should have should have a clean slate on this and and move forward. Can I ask a

[1:13:17] question before we move on? >> We use two gentlemen.

[1:13:22] I'd like you to repeat one more time. What is the cost factor for us to

[1:13:28] [snorts] accept this program and lawyers or anything like this? It's

[1:13:34] already covered through the organization that you're dealing with. Correct.

[1:13:40] » Correct. >> Okay. It's all I need to know. So, we

[1:13:43] can proceed. there's no money's going to be charged to us.

[1:13:47] » The the intent the intent just so it's clear the intent when we every project

[1:13:53] we work on the cost of setting up these nonprofits the legal fees everything it

[1:14:00] all gets put into the mortgage that the nonprofit is responsible for. The town

[1:14:06] provides a guarantee. Dave provides a a a financial

[1:14:11] picture so that there's no risk or mitigation to the town and all the costs

[1:14:17] including our fees, everybody, the construction, all of that is attached to

[1:14:22] the mortgage. So, our proposal to you tonight is basically saying here's

[1:14:28] here's what we can do for you. And to do that, there's no cost to you, but the

[1:14:33] cost of that, our fees, the legal fees, we can throw in the because we still

[1:14:38] have to talk about what's the roof cost, you know, all of that cost will be

[1:14:43] attached to the mortgage, not you will not see a bill from us.

[1:14:49] » There you go. Well, we had we had uh we got to put an end to this uh end

[1:14:55] amendment moved by uh myself, seconded by councelor Levite. Councelor Levite

[1:15:01] requested a uh recording vote. >> The council amend the motion to remove

[1:15:07] all directions, thank the presenters for the presentation,

[1:15:12] » and hold any further direction to new council in the 2026 2030 term.

[1:15:22] questions and comments. We went through it 100 times.

[1:15:26] » We're just voting on the amendment. >> Yeah.

[1:15:29] » If the amendment goes through, then that's what's happening.

[1:15:34] » Yeah. >> And be

[1:15:40] councelor. >> No.

[1:15:44] » Mayor. >> Yes.

[1:15:48] Councelor Smith, >> no.

[1:15:52] » Councelor Ross, >> no.

[1:15:55] » Councelor Tubar, >> no.

[1:15:58] » Councelor Big >> and Councelor Gardner,

[1:16:03] » no. >> So, this motion is lost for the recorded

[1:16:07] vote as one day and six days.

[1:16:14] » Thank you. Thank you very much for your

[1:16:17] presentation. This one's lost. So now we have to vote

[1:16:20] on the original. Do we not? >> Yes. Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it

[1:16:24] was automatically defeated. >> No.

[1:16:28] Okay. So the original because the amendment was lost. So the original is

[1:16:35] uh moved by councelor Tar, seconded by councelor Levite. Councelor Levite is

[1:16:40] requesting a reported vote. council direct staff to work with consultants

[1:16:45] David Butler and Keith Haramman on a plan to create a notfor-profit and bring

[1:16:50] the plan forward to the upcoming 2026 2030 council once in place

[1:16:59] comments. Yeah, I I did just want to um you know, I

[1:17:07] to be frank, I I didn't appreciate the mini tantrum and and the comments about

[1:17:12] you know, us wasting time and stuff like that. I think that this is a huge

[1:17:16] commitment uh for for our council and especially an outgoing council. Um it's

[1:17:21] a 5.6 5.5 million uh endeavor. You know, we're going to add to that. it's going

[1:17:27] to be six plus million by the time we pay you and add to it and you know put

[1:17:31] some money in the bank so that they can operate and and that's a big commitment

[1:17:34] talking over 50 years that adds uh you know probably $10 million in interest

[1:17:38] over a 50-year term. So it's this becomes a $16 million decision. Um and I

[1:17:44] don't appreciate at all uh you know kind of the comments about it smash a window

[1:17:48] on the way out and you know I expect those things of my my teenagers and not

[1:17:52] somebody trying to solicit the business from the town of Malaw. um it is

[1:17:56] something that the the company will be paid for in a six figure uh an amount.

[1:18:01] So I I think that that was kind of uncalled for and maybe my comments now

[1:18:06] are uncalled for but you know it it goes both ways. So um you know I appreciated

[1:18:12] everything up until then um and and that really turned me off and you know it it

[1:18:16] really turned my gut feeling on this uh really fast. So uh I didn't appreciate

[1:18:21] that at all. Any other comments?

[1:18:26] » Yes, [clears throat] councelor delay. >> I just want to thank you for your

[1:18:30] presentation and I know it was a little bit hard to understand some of the

[1:18:36] points and that you were bringing forward but that's why I asked you for

[1:18:40] the second time to give us a detail about what the cost was and you already

[1:18:44] indicated. So the town not worry about getting charred by anybody right now

[1:18:50] till such time you have a feel. >> So I'm satisfied. Thank you very much.

[1:18:57] Any other comment? >> None.

[1:19:04] » Councelor Le. >> Yes.

[1:19:07] » Councelor Tar. >> Yes.

[1:19:11] » Councelor M. >> Yes.

[1:19:15] Councelor Ross, >> yes.

[1:19:17] » Councelor Vigalo, >> yes.

[1:19:20] » Councelor Gardner, >> no.

[1:19:22] » And Mayor Blanch, >> no.

[1:19:26] » The motion is carried to the recorded vote of 5 days and two days.

[1:19:35] So once again, thank you very much and uh we'll move forward with our meeting

[1:19:40] now. >> All right. Thank you very much for

[1:19:43] patience and uh we'll be in contact. All right.

[1:19:47] » Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you.

[1:19:50] » Okay. Number six, adoption of the minutes. We have uh two sets of minutes,

[1:19:55] regular and special meeting. Uh they've been circulated, so I need a mover and a

[1:20:00] seconder to accept it.

[1:20:13] So the motion was moved by councelor Ross, seconded by councelor Bigalow. Be

[1:20:18] it resolved that council adopt the minutes of the regular meeting of July

[1:20:23] 13, 2026 and the special meeting of July 28th,

[1:20:29] 2026 as circulated. Questions, comments? Then going to call for a vote. Councelor

[1:20:37] Mick. >> Yes. And all in favor carries.

[1:20:43] [clears throat]

[1:20:52] Uh

[1:20:58] there are no notice emotions. Uh correspondence uh 8.1 from the

[1:21:05] municipality of South Euron Eds and Beds payment in new of taxes program.

[1:21:12] Any questions or comments? None. 8.2 Madawa Child Care Center response to

[1:21:20] request for waving of fees. Questions, comments? Councelor Gardner.

[1:21:26] » Thank you. >> Yeah, I do. So, I've been saying it all

[1:21:29] along and uh you know, don't we look like a circus now? Uh here we have a not

[1:21:34] for-p profofit uh that's, you know, been a not for-p profofit longer than I've

[1:21:38] been alive. Um and after approving the last, you know, probably three requests,

[1:21:44] um council decided to uh to deny this one. And I know that I uh was one of the

[1:21:49] the reasons for that, but uh yeah, just uh we're not consistent at this table.

[1:21:55] um the policy can't come fast enough and uh I think that if the majority of

[1:21:59] council wishes to continue providing these services for free then so be it.

[1:22:03] Uh but we have to be consistent with it. I don't think that it's fair that uh one

[1:22:06] not for profofit gets something and another doesn't. Um I I support helping

[1:22:12] these groups although you know I voted no to some of these uh some of these

[1:22:15] requests outside of the Voyager days one. Um, and I'm not looking to make

[1:22:20] money off of these groups, but at the same time, I'm looking for us to at

[1:22:23] least recoup our costs on staffing and etc. for that stuff. Um, you know, I

[1:22:28] don't know if that number is 25%, 50%. Um, but I would hope that, you know, we

[1:22:33] kind of get some indication on that when uh when actual uh policy comes forward

[1:22:38] to council to approve. Um and just lastly um I welcome anybody who makes uh

[1:22:46] requests from organizations like this um to attend the meetings that the letter

[1:22:51] of the requests will be presented at. Um had that member or or that person uh the

[1:22:56] author of that letter been at that meeting. They might have been able to

[1:22:59] clarify um some of the misconceptions immediately and that might have changed

[1:23:03] the mind of some of the counselors. Um it was too bad that they decided to uh

[1:23:07] cancel the event because of the uh the way that the outcome came, but um yeah,

[1:23:11] I I would welcome them to attend the meetings um to answer any questions that

[1:23:16] we might have in the future. >> Councor Los,

[1:23:19] » I also agree. I wish that somebody would I wish it would have been been written

[1:23:23] in this form or that somebody would have been in attendance that we could have

[1:23:27] questioned it because it definitely would have made a difference for me for

[1:23:31] sure. um after after seeing this, I don't know if

[1:23:36] they want to submit a new a new proposal, a new request, but I think

[1:23:41] either [clears throat] being in the audience or writing something in detail

[1:23:44] so that council is fully aware, but would make a big difference. So, and I I

[1:23:51] also would like to see something I don't know if council has to write um a motion

[1:23:56] to have some kind of policy in place for nonprofit, but I would like to see

[1:24:01] something soon also so that we can be consistent.

[1:24:04] » My my answer to that would would be council staff did bring policy.

[1:24:10] » We shot Yeah, they did. And we shot it down. We shot it down. And that's

[1:24:15] exactly what councelor Garner was talking about back then. is just watch

[1:24:20] the floodgates are going to open up and they certainly did. So they've been told

[1:24:24] all along that you know let's get that policy back in with some teeth and uh

[1:24:31] let's see we council am I wrong in saying that

[1:24:33] » I asked if that was brought to council and it was no

[1:24:36] » I don't think a policy came to council if they had an internal one

[1:24:41] » so again I shared before a practice was disclosed to council opposed to a policy

[1:24:48] per se we started to introduce a practice of charging

[1:24:52] 50% to uh nonprofit and registered charities. See how that knows what sued

[1:25:00] and then then we would follow that up was a formal policy after a big trial

[1:25:06] period of that practice. Uh but between there requests came to council and

[1:25:13] council decided to not follow that practice and grant uh no fees to those

[1:25:21] that asked. So here we are today with those that say got it, those that

[1:25:25] didn't. And now been asked to actually bring back a formal policy.

[1:25:29] » Yeah.

[1:25:33] » Any other comments on this? >> No. No. No. 8.3

[1:25:38] Township of Elmwick Alderman Deacons of Life for British home children and child

[1:25:43] migrant tribute. >> Councilor Ross.

[1:25:47] » So this is actually horrible. What I read is absolutely awful. Uh what was

[1:25:54] done to these children being sent from uh it it was almost children as far as

[1:26:01] I'm concerned. So, I would like to see us be able to do some form of support. I

[1:26:06] believe their date that they're having this is in September

[1:26:12] coming September 28th. So, I would like to see us at least make a pro

[1:26:18] proclamation if we are in cap if we're capable of doing so to just keep this um

[1:26:25] alive. This is the first I have ever heard of this and it is absolutely

[1:26:29] awful. I would like to see

[1:26:33] something too late >> so this organization

[1:26:37] » to proclaim a certain date >> to our last staff to bring them back for

[1:26:44] » their next uh regular meeting. [snorts] >> Thank you

[1:26:48] Gardner. >> So is it just a proclamation or because

[1:26:51] I think in there they asked that we light up our monuments and things like

[1:26:54] that. My only comment to it was uh that I think that they have to you know this

[1:27:00] is the start but I I too the first time I'd ever heard of this so I think there

[1:27:04] needs to be more education on the topic um and if we go around lighting up our

[1:27:09] monuments red white and blue where the world is at these days uh we're going to

[1:27:15] face some harsh criticism uh if if they don't understand why

[1:27:19] » um so just just throwing that out there >> I think the population just started

[1:27:24] Councelor Ross is requesting a proclamation

[1:27:29] motion be brought forward.

[1:27:34] Any other comments?

[1:27:38] 8.4 City of Missaga emergency shelters serving women and children experiencing

[1:27:45] intimate partner violence. Council regard,

[1:27:49] » I feel like some rendition of this has come around a few times within our

[1:27:54] council term. So, I don't know if it's this one specifically that we've seen,

[1:27:57] but we've seen things very similar to this um come back. And again, we haven't

[1:28:03] already supported it. I I wouldn't mind supporting it. Um I agree that it's an

[1:28:08] ongoing issue. Um, but a comment that I did want to make uh was that as we move

[1:28:14] toward a more equal society, I've always questioned why we don't uh have these

[1:28:18] emergency centers for men and their families. Um, because it it does go um

[1:28:23] both ways. Uh, and you know, there there are a lot of single men out there that,

[1:28:28] you know, are in need of emergency shelter and stuff like that. So, I I

[1:28:32] wouldn't want to just limit it to that. Um, I'd like to see everybody

[1:28:35] encompassed in it. >> Yeah, that's right. us.

[1:28:38] » It does say intimate partner violence. So I think that's the definition right

[1:28:42] there. Women and children experiment. There are more women dying from intimate

[1:28:48] partner violence than men as far as I'm aware after working guil for 37 years.

[1:28:53] Also, it is also the funding formula that they're looking at and uh to be

[1:28:58] able to access uh housing coming out of shelters because right now

[1:29:04] women and children are not it there used to be a scale where if you're coming out

[1:29:09] of an intimate partner violence relationship, you would get bumped up a

[1:29:13] little bit. That is no longer happening. Also, women now are instead of staying

[1:29:19] for 30 days are having to stay up to 6 months before they can find anything.

[1:29:24] So, it's the formulas looking at changing and also for the funding based

[1:29:29] on those formulas that need to be changed. So, that's what they're asking

[1:29:32] for. So, I would like to support this. >> Everyone okay with that?

[1:29:41] We'll bring something back, please. 8.5 Township of Brutil, Lindok and

[1:29:48] Ragman, Provincial Bill 100, Better Regional Government Act 2026.

[1:29:56] Comments, questions

[1:30:03] none. 8.6 Six panam registration open for SN OE 101 fall course. Questions,

[1:30:12] comments?

[1:30:16] Councilor Gardner. Yeah, just uh obviously we don't have a economic

[1:30:20] officer on that right now. Um so I I wouldn't be opposed to uh to somebody.

[1:30:27] It's I believe it's online course. So I wouldn't be opposed to uh paying for a

[1:30:30] staff member to participate in that course if they would.

[1:30:36] But I leave that to them to figure out.

[1:30:42] » I I know that uh CEO that that's we do have an application then with the the

[1:30:49] feds to get a >> Yeah. So, you know, and and I believe

[1:30:56] the I'm just going by memory what I read. Uh minimum five, maximum 20. So,

[1:31:03] and last time this came by, it was filled instantly, but I can leave that

[1:31:10] up to staff to have a look at it.

[1:31:17] » Any other questions or comments on it? No. 8.7 Phenom again, Northern Shield

[1:31:23] Energy Corridor.

[1:31:27] Oops. Questions, comments?

[1:31:37] Okay. None. 8.8 Township of Tudtor in Cashell. Review of extended producer

[1:31:44] responsibility for one pound single use propane cylinders. Question comments.

[1:31:50] Council Gar. >> A question for the director if possible.

[1:31:54] Uh right now when these come back to our landfill, do they because of what they

[1:31:59] are? Are they able to go into the scrap metal or they go into the landfill?

[1:32:03] » We're refusing them at the landfill. They're still landing out there, but

[1:32:06] we're refusing them. They go to hazards waste.

[1:32:08] » Okay. >> Okay.

[1:32:10] » And they're not on our acceptable materials

[1:32:14] list. >> Okay. And then so if we pay for the

[1:32:19] hazardous pay a certain amount to the hazardous

[1:32:22] to have access to it, right? Um, so if we did accept them, would they would we

[1:32:28] have to facilitate getting them to the to North Bay? Yeah, we would just have

[1:32:32] to have a proper storage location for them because they some of them come back

[1:32:36] to us half charge. and part of the problem. And then we've seen them in

[1:32:44] garbage bags and getting into the garbage truck. And

[1:32:48] I'm I'm just trying to think of a way that we can do better with it. And if if

[1:32:52] there's a way that a business in town could be could be of

[1:32:57] help to it. Um I do know that there are thousands of these that are out in our

[1:33:03] community every year. Um, so they're ending up in our landfill in the end

[1:33:07] because people aren't keeping them as momentos at home, right? So they're

[1:33:10] ending up there eventually. So, okay. >> They had a picture of the Calvin uh

[1:33:17] landfill and it was amazing how many were there.

[1:33:20] » Oh, really?

[1:33:23] » So, not only a problem. >> I'll reach out and maybe we can come up

[1:33:28] with something. >> Any other comments, questions?

[1:33:34] Okay. 8.9 Municipality of Wawa, Ontario Hospital.

[1:33:39] Call for more funding

[1:33:44] » questions, comments? None.

[1:33:51] » 8.10 Ontario Provincial Police Matter Voyager

[1:33:56] Days 2026 after action report. Questions,

[1:34:01] comments?

[1:34:09] I think report

[1:34:14] what what what did it cost us? >> I don't think

[1:34:19] » she said I see nothing. >> Nothing. I think they I think it's a

[1:34:22] report that the police give out after they after the event to see how

[1:34:26] » they there were those four or six officers.

[1:34:30] for the officers. Oh, that I I thought you were talking about the report.

[1:34:33] » No, no, I'm talking about the helping officers and everything that cost money.

[1:34:37] » Yeah, Paul. >> Yeah. So, it's uh it's called paid duty

[1:34:40] request and as a condition of getting our SOP or special occasion permit, uh

[1:34:47] we have to have those officers on scene. The total cost is, you know, $10,000.

[1:34:56] So when they were saying that there's no cost, there's no cost within our

[1:35:00] municipal um levy we pay for.

[1:35:08] » Okay. Any other comments, questions? Okay. 8.11

[1:35:12] Cheryl Bar. Accessibility concerns questions, comments. Councilor Robs.

[1:35:18] » So I think I have actually seen these. There's one, I believe, at one beach in

[1:35:23] North Bay, and I'm not sure if there's a second one, but these are not um I think

[1:35:28] this is a very um easy easy request to to look at. I think

[1:35:34] by maybe going and connecting with Community Living and talking to them

[1:35:39] because it's a mat that will roll down and you it rolls down to the beach, the

[1:35:44] wheelchair the wheelchair can ride on it. I I would like to see us look into

[1:35:51] exactly what it costs and maybe partnering partnering with community

[1:35:55] living to see if it's um possible to do something like this for um

[1:36:02] for people who are in wheelchairs and who are just hands have accessibility

[1:36:07] issues.

[1:36:11] sort of bike. >> I don't mind that part looking into what

[1:36:16] would cost for a bath, but you're in the wheelchair and you walk into into the

[1:36:21] current water. What happened to that person?

[1:36:26] Lose their life unless you got proper supervision when they put it out cuz the

[1:36:32] tank could fall under a liability. >> I don't think they're looking to go into

[1:36:35] the water. I think they're looking to get down to the water. Yeah, they're not

[1:36:39] looking for volunteers.

[1:36:43] » I spoke to staff today. Uh my understanding is we have someone on

[1:36:48] staff that's uh been looking at some hats for that. So I think we can uh

[1:36:55] hopefully this will materialize >> and has been for a while. You've got

[1:37:01] them lined up and >> Okay.

[1:37:05] » If you if I may just shed some light like I I did take a moment to to read

[1:37:10] the letter and and um one of the requests within the letter was has the

[1:37:15] town applied for any available funding and we have we've applied for ease

[1:37:20] funding version 2026 2027. The application was for $60,000 went in in

[1:37:26] May and uh and that application is is likely due back uh a response by

[1:37:33] December. So, I was just looking at last year's, that's when they told everybody

[1:37:37] last year for the 2025, 2026. Um, we were unsuccessful in 2025, 2026, but uh

[1:37:43] 2026, 2027, uh we're hopeful, right?

[1:37:47] » And uh and $10,000 as part of that budget is uh is for beach accessibility

[1:37:54] events. >> Wonderful. Uh the other line items in

[1:37:56] the budget are barrierfree washrooms at a couple public facilities, town hall

[1:38:02] and the information center and then uh there's some funds there for contingency

[1:38:06] on on those projects. Um the other part of it is the actual

[1:38:12] entrance way of the two facilities. So like in the front of town hall and the

[1:38:16] front of the information center

[1:38:21] there >> I just um had um

[1:38:26] access to a scooter. Um, and I thought I better take it cuz

[1:38:31] it was for free. >> And, uh, I've been riding on it, uh, you

[1:38:37] know, around town. And I noticed a lot of these things that she's talking about

[1:38:42] as far as, uh, you know, uh, uh, >> level

[1:38:46] » cracks and everything in the sidewalks. Terrible. Really is. I don't know who's

[1:38:52] responsible on the highway portion of the if we're still responsible for the

[1:38:57] for the sidewalks on Highway 17 or is it the government? I don't know that the I

[1:39:05] know these drain sewers are their responsibility but I'm not sure.

[1:39:12] The second thing is it is terrible. It is hard on machine.

[1:39:17] Like I know this person, this is my niece and I know that that she has a

[1:39:23] scooter and she also has a wheelchair and she goes from her house which is on

[1:39:28] Lily Street over to the museum because she got a job for 4 hours a day or

[1:39:34] something and it's just killing her wheelchair and

[1:39:38] killing her her scooter, you know, to do that. But anyway, just you know that I

[1:39:43] noticed so many things on sidewalks that it's terrible. Really is too maybe.

[1:39:51] » Yeah. So, just from the letter um you know, I appreciate that we've been doing

[1:39:57] those applications. Those are things that council isn't always aware of that

[1:40:00] staff are doing um on our on the town's behalf and and thankful that those

[1:40:06] things are happening because I wasn't even aware of some of these grants. Um,

[1:40:09] and maybe I should be, but um, I just kind of bring this back to kind

[1:40:14] of shedding some light on our budgeting process and the lack of bringing this

[1:40:17] forward because this has been at the top of my wish list for uh, three years. So,

[1:40:21] three elect three uh, budgets now. Um, there's two items that I've desperately

[1:40:26] wanted to get and I haven't been able to have an opportunity to get them in

[1:40:29] there. So, Beach Met for the island was uh, the top of my list. Um, and just uh

[1:40:35] a few weeks ago I had a conversation with the director um kind of [snorts] um

[1:40:40] just bringing light to the the fact that maybe we don't always think of things as

[1:40:44] able-bodied people, but um the previous council made an accessible uh splash

[1:40:51] pad, put an accessible washroom there, accessible uh pathway through the park

[1:40:56] to get to it is 10 ft of gravel. >> Yeah. Nobody thought to pave or to put a

[1:41:01] cement walkway for the 10 feet to get into the park from the parking lot,

[1:41:06] right? So, just small things like that. That's something that we talk about and

[1:41:09] maybe, you know, the next time we pave, we can we can look at it when we're

[1:41:12] fixing spots around town. But, you know, little things like that uh that seem so

[1:41:17] small to us, um but it's it's a big deal for them. Um, I just wanted to point out

[1:41:22] that uh I did bring it up to JP2G uh in some of our conversations on the

[1:41:27] reconstruction of Main Street next year that now is the time for the town and

[1:41:31] JP2G to be approaching businesses on Main Street so that we can work together

[1:41:35] to ensure that they have what they need from our side to become accessible. Um,

[1:41:40] you know, like I think if there's a business on Main Street that has a lip

[1:41:43] that's three inches and it's like to make that building accessible, they got

[1:41:47] to do accessible doors and everything that's on them. But can we build the

[1:41:51] grade up 3 in when we redo Main Street in that location, right? And in other

[1:41:55] locations, maybe they need a ramp and stuff like that, but wouldn't it be the

[1:41:58] time to do it all when the company is there doing all of Main Street? Wouldn't

[1:42:02] that be a good time for the company to or the business to partner with the

[1:42:05] company and the town and we can all make it work. Um, you know, obviously we're

[1:42:09] not going to pay for it all. Um, we'll pay for it, but we can do things within

[1:42:13] our within our capability to, like I said, that 3 in. if we can do that,

[1:42:18] that's very minimal for us. Um, so that was something that I brought to JP2G and

[1:42:23] I hope that we're having those conversations with some of those uh

[1:42:26] businesses. Um, and then the last comment that I had on it um is just I

[1:42:31] I'm a pretty active member on uh Facebook. Um sometimes it's good,

[1:42:35] sometimes it's bad. uh you know it can keep you up at night um what you read on

[1:42:40] there but um you know voicing your concerns on there isn't how you get in

[1:42:45] touch with council I don't think all of this council is uh regular members on

[1:42:50] those pages and and follow them um so you know writing a simple letter to

[1:42:53] council like this or coming to present to us it's got us all talking about it

[1:42:56] right so this simple letter has got us all talking and and and this person has

[1:43:00] said that they wrote on Facebook multiple times and got nowhere and now

[1:43:04] they're getting somewhere by writing a simple So I would always invite somebody

[1:43:07] to uh either attend our meeting or to to write to all of council and not social

[1:43:11] media. >> Councelor Ross,

[1:43:14] » I was just going to say the same thing is working with JP2 would be great

[1:43:18] because they have engineers at their disposal who can help them to possibly

[1:43:24] um tell them if you do it like this it'll be correct and it won't cost you

[1:43:28] as much money or they can help them figure out things. So yeah, I think

[1:43:32] working with J2 is great and especially since we're revamping Main Street

[1:43:36] anyway. So it >> sounds really good.

[1:43:40] » Well, the last presentation they made to us on a Saturday with the Main Street

[1:43:44] project and it was discussed that they're going to be accessibility put

[1:43:50] into the plan. So it's there. It's just a matter of getting the the funds put in

[1:43:55] place and uh get them to start construction whoever they going to hire.

[1:44:00] But we got to make sure that there's accessibility for somebody.

[1:44:05] » Counc. >> Yeah. I uh I remember sitting here that

[1:44:09] Saturday that when our engineers had all these

[1:44:17] placards set up on either side here about Main Street and we discussed the

[1:44:23] ways that we could help the business people. This is why it's so important

[1:44:28] for us to let our people knowing me on uh our residents know to attend these

[1:44:35] things. Not one business person showed up. Not one. And I was so disappointed,

[1:44:42] you know, that they wouldn't take an hour out of their time, their busy day

[1:44:46] to come and and and give their opinions on how to to fix their main street like

[1:44:52] or help to uh because we had the engineers, they could have discussed it

[1:44:57] with the engineers at that particular time. So what we did then, seeing that

[1:45:02] nobody showed up, we asked our engineers to go personally to each. I don't know

[1:45:06] if they ever done that. I'm sure they did cuz we asked they do. But the point

[1:45:11] is that come to these public meetings and and share your opinions. We need

[1:45:16] your input. We need the people's input so to help us to make the right

[1:45:20] decisions here. So anyway, thanks. Okay. Well, just to uh back you up, counselor

[1:45:29] Derek, uh the town did bring uh hand delivered invitations

[1:45:35] and uh it's not 011 did didn't come to the meeting,

[1:45:41] » but uh we connected them with the engineers and he's going to make sure

[1:45:46] that what he's planning is going to work in conjunction with what their

[1:45:50] construction will do. That's right. >> So, you're right. you know that that's

[1:45:55] why we we advertise that's why especially now it's uh you know handd

[1:46:01] delivered invitations. >> Okay. Any other comments? So

[1:46:07] » this will be a timing up as well. Just for the accessibility of the businesses

[1:46:12] they they have to have it done by 26. >> Sure.

[1:46:15] » That's not just question. I thought it was 25,

[1:46:21] but then there was an extension plan

[1:46:26] next year. >> I guess like I have a a generic um

[1:46:29] comments kind of tailing off of what Matt and everyone's been been saying of

[1:46:33] coming to council services like that is one of the main reasons why we are here.

[1:46:37] That's why we have our our director who has been working behind the scenes and

[1:46:40] and and doing all those types of things as well. It's very important. Um coming

[1:46:45] here or or writing letters is is is the way to do it. Absolutely.

[1:46:49] » Yeah. >> Been uh put a good spin on everything.

[1:46:54] Uh I I think this council has been proactive. Uh we've done you know all

[1:47:00] the engineering and all the planning on Main Street. That's uh you know some of

[1:47:05] the work will be done very shortly. The whole construction will be done next

[1:47:10] year. We also addressed the uh the fact that we're trying to find out from our

[1:47:14] engineers if we need our bridge to be rehabilitated or replaced. And so so we

[1:47:21] I I think we are uh in some sense uh you know aware of this. The one thing I

[1:47:29] would like to ask and I'm going to ask uh to the CEO that the staff uh send

[1:47:36] Miss Bear an answer to everything that was discussed here and and

[1:47:43] we can do that. >> Yeah.

[1:47:46] » And are we good to go? >> Yep.

[1:47:48] » Okay. So, we're into information reports.

[1:47:54] uh 9.1 changes to council procedures bylaw and governance policy three. It

[1:48:00] was prepared by the uh municipal clerk and the deputy clerk and it's report

[1:48:06] number 26-34R

[1:48:10] tables or the floors. >> Thank you. Uh so this is coming back

[1:48:15] from the regular meeting of uh June 8th where we spoke to council to make

[1:48:20] changes to the current governance policy three council meetings. Um so during

[1:48:26] that discussion council provided some feedback on what they would like to see

[1:48:31] uh the changes reflect. So, um, following that and, uh, speaking with a

[1:48:39] few council members, we did some changes to this. So, I'll go

[1:48:45] section by section, uh, just like we did last time. So, section 3.1.1,

[1:48:52] the preparation, uh, this has been kept in there and it's the exact same from

[1:48:56] the June 8th meeting. Uh, it's just housekeeping and policy. Council is okay

[1:49:01] with that. So section 3.1.2

[1:49:06] on the formats of the agenda on the regular meeting agenda. Uh one of the

[1:49:14] changes was to move the position of the questions from the public pertaining to

[1:49:18] the agenda. So that way there

[1:49:23] the public can answer can question some things that are being brought to council

[1:49:28] before council discuss them. and in comes up with a motion. Um so we're

[1:49:34] suggesting that this location be moved to um after the reports but before all

[1:49:43] the motions. >> Okay. So that council can hear

[1:49:49] um all the reports from staff that they've requested

[1:49:53] before passing any motions on these reports. It'll give the um anybody in

[1:50:00] the audience opportunities to ask questions on these reports and we've

[1:50:07] also created some rules around the question period as well which is further

[1:50:13] pinned here. Uh change number two is to the information report slashmotions.

[1:50:22] Um, so this we've kept from the June 8th

[1:50:27] report and we've just changed a few things. We'd like to have the two types

[1:50:33] of reports. One being an information report, the second being an action

[1:50:38] report. Um, so that way their information

[1:50:43] reports are just that information to council. There is nothing that requires

[1:50:48] a motion from these. Um so this will eliminate motions to accept the report

[1:50:58] and then the action report of course would be exactly that. It's uh actions

[1:51:04] that council will need uh to do after staff recommend

[1:51:09] recommendation. So we would create a motion for this but

[1:51:14] the motion would be done in the notice of motions. So council will hear the

[1:51:20] action report. You'll have a chance to ask questions.

[1:51:25] The gallery will ask questions if required during the question period. And

[1:51:30] then council will vote on the motion for that action.

[1:51:36] And then on a committee of a whole.

[1:51:42] Committee of the whole purpose is for council to discuss

[1:51:49] something like anything that uh is required for them. It's not for motion

[1:51:55] that is done through a regular council meeting. So we are suggesting that the

[1:52:01] agenda format for the committee of the whole be changed to remove

[1:52:05] a notice of motions period because none should be done during the committee of a

[1:52:10] whole to just have information reports and to

[1:52:15] include new business so the council can bring up a new business topic in a

[1:52:20] committee via the whole you can discuss it and any actions resulting from that

[1:52:25] be brought forward to a regular meeting.

[1:52:30] under section 3.2.2 meeting dates. Um that is the exact same

[1:52:38] from the June 8th report. Um and it's just the wording around the inaugural

[1:52:44] meeting what I would like to see which is more consistent with the municipal

[1:52:49] act and the municipal elections act. and then removing the standing committee

[1:52:54] reference. Again, that's just some housekeeping.

[1:52:58] Uh same with section 3.5.4, duties of the chair. Um remove the third

[1:53:05] bullet stating ensure the clerk enters all decisions into the council's

[1:53:09] tracking system. We removed that tracking system in 2025. So that's just

[1:53:13] regular housekeeping. Section 3.4 for electronic uh

[1:53:21] participation. So, council requested some um further

[1:53:27] clarification to wording on this one, but needed to be clearer speaking of the

[1:53:33] compensation be beyond the allotted 12 virtual meetings. So staff staff is

[1:53:39] suggesting the following wording under that members are limited to 12 virtual

[1:53:45] meetings per calendar year. While attendance at the meetings is encouraged

[1:53:50] and supported, compensation for electronic participation will not be

[1:53:55] provided for any meetings beyond this limit.

[1:53:59] So we think that's a clearer wording for that section.

[1:54:05] So if uh council does have an aptite to change that, we would also have to

[1:54:10] change the bylaw on 2304 for the renumeration for council so that it

[1:54:17] states that fact as well. So if this um goes through council, you will see that

[1:54:23] fila come back as well.

[1:54:27] Section 3.12.3 pres presentations by delegation.

[1:54:33] So during the meeting, members had some questions on this session and how to

[1:54:38] respond to presentations. So staff was suggesting the following

[1:54:44] changes. That one, each presentation is

[1:54:48] automatically put on old business so that council may discuss any actions

[1:54:52] that is required while giving time for each member to think about the

[1:54:56] presentation and the response they would like.

[1:55:01] Two, that the clerk send a letter thanking the presenter and that council

[1:55:05] will discuss the presentation at their next regular meeting and follow up the

[1:55:10] with the presenter if required. And three, that members of council are

[1:55:15] limited to ask the presenter one question each and that a followup may be

[1:55:20] done right away if the question was not fully answered.

[1:55:25] » I have question um at the next regular meeting. So

[1:55:30] second and fourth Mondays are a regular meeting. Committee the whole is the

[1:55:35] third Monday. >> Correct.

[1:55:37] » Could that be added into the committee and the whole agenda

[1:55:43] without a vote? You know what I'm saying?

[1:55:46] » To be discussed >> to be discussed.

[1:55:48] » Um you can. So then we would just have to amend

[1:55:54] or put that under new business on a committee. So we can we can change that

[1:56:02] wording there to state um either at the next regular meeting or

[1:56:07] at a committee as a whole. >> Yeah.

[1:56:10] » So we can add that wording into there if council has not typed for that.

[1:56:14] » Is everyone okay with that? >> Yes, sure. That'd be all right.

[1:56:18] Councelor Mick, you okay with that?

[1:56:26] » Uh sounds fine to me. Thank you.

[1:56:39] » Wouldn't that contradict said earlier about not

[1:56:45] passing any votes on it all by the next council?

[1:56:52] » I'm sorry, I can't hear you. This wouldn't this uh you you said in one

[1:56:56] earlier said that uh there would be no uh voting on media the whole meetings

[1:57:02] right it' be sent to the next wave of Palestine

[1:57:05] » correct >> so now we're saying that we're going to

[1:57:08] vote on something we can discuss discussiation

[1:57:13] » oh information >> okay

[1:57:16] » so so we would amend um number two to that the clerk will send a better

[1:57:23] thanking the presenter and that the council will discuss the presentation at

[1:57:28] their next regular meeting or a committee of the whole meeting and

[1:57:32] follow up with the presenter if required.

[1:57:34] » Thank you. >> So we'll add that clarification there.

[1:57:39] Um, and then this entire section, presentations by delegations, we even

[1:57:46] put that on the town social media account. Clarify how a member of the

[1:57:51] public can be on the agenda to speak to councils as it was suggested that the

[1:57:56] public has limited knowledge on the steps to take before going to council.

[1:58:01] So, we can do all of that and clarify that on our website as well.

[1:58:08] Um, we created a new section after hearing

[1:58:13] your feedback from council. It would be section 3.13

[1:58:18] questions from the floor pertaining to the agenda. So this new section would go

[1:58:24] around the questions and was asked to create it to tighten up how members of

[1:58:31] the council and members of the public are to condense up themselves during

[1:58:35] this question period. Um so I met with the mayor and we suggesting we

[1:58:41] suggesting the following apply that members of the public be limited to one

[1:58:46] question each. A followup question may be asked if not fully answered. Any

[1:58:54] member of council may be asked a question. Members of the public shall

[1:58:59] not enter into a debate and a 20 minute time limit be placed on this session of

[1:59:06] the agenda. And I included the full wording within the actual policy that

[1:59:13] you were provided with this. So loss has a question.

[1:59:18] I thought we were going to allow members of the public just to ask a question or

[1:59:22] is this a different section pertaining to the agenda?

[1:59:26] » No, it's the same section. So, they are allowed to ask questions pertaining to

[1:59:30] the agenda. We had there was no um rules for lack of a better word within the

[1:59:37] policy. >> Okay.

[1:59:39] » To state how that happens when it happens. Um it just states that they're

[1:59:47] not to enter into a debate which is kind of lost at this point of time because

[1:59:52] there has been much debate going on after the public act um ask questions.

[1:59:58] So we just actually included a section in there pertaining to

[2:00:04] questions from the floor pertaining to the agenda.

[2:00:08] » We're just tightening up the speech. Okay.

[2:00:10] » So, I think the important thing here is it's 20 minutes.

[2:00:14] » So, if we have a full house, that's why we want to limit it to one question.

[2:00:18] » If there's only one person, then they have a second question. I think the

[2:00:22] chair can Yeah. >> can let that happen. So,

[2:00:25] » so it's not that we're trying to muzzle anyone. Just trying to give everyone to

[2:00:31] » Yeah.

[2:00:35] » Any further questions? >> No. No.

[2:00:37] » Okay. >> Sorry. Nope, that's okay. Um, so those

[2:00:41] that's the end of our changes. So we are uh recommending the proposal that

[2:00:48] council approves all of these. So, um the way that I put it within the package

[2:00:55] here, you can um either approve the entire policy as we made changes to

[2:01:04] it uh as of now or if you feel like you don't want to approve all of the

[2:01:09] sections that we stated in this report, you can just pick and choose your

[2:01:14] sections that you want to approve as well. So, um I leave it up to council's

[2:01:18] discretion. So out of all the sections, is everyone

[2:01:23] okay with those sections? So I would recommend that we go with the second one

[2:01:29] and list all the sections. There's seven of them.

[2:01:33] There's two there. There's the first one is going to be to uh accept the report

[2:01:39] because that's what we've been doing. This might be for the last time.

[2:01:43] And then uh then we can either say we we approve the

[2:01:48] proposed policy and bylaw changes or we can say which sections

[2:01:54] which uh the clerk has just itemized them all and explained the law

[2:02:01] counc

[2:02:05] uh 3.12.3 um I don't support limiting to uh to one

[2:02:13] question. Um I as you know that as we've seen tonight sometimes it gets a little

[2:02:19] uh repetitive and the same question gets asked and um you know things are

[2:02:25] answered in reports and and stuff like that and it gets out of hand and we end

[2:02:28] up an hour and 20 minutes into a presentation. Um but I think that's part

[2:02:32] of uh the duties of the chair is to kind of re bring rain those in and

[2:02:36] unfortunately be the bad guys sometimes and kind of uh pull everybody back down

[2:02:42] to reality. that I don't like, for example, I had what I thought were four

[2:02:46] or five important questions tonight and I I wouldn't have wanted to pick one of

[2:02:51] those and then start to go to my council members and say, "Hey, can you ask this

[2:02:55] one for me? Can you ask this one for me? If you don't have any questions because

[2:02:58] I need answers to these." So, that's I think you nailed that one. It's up to

[2:03:03] the chair. And uh tonight was totally different. It wasn't a 10-minute

[2:03:08] presentation. It was an hour presentation. So I expect them more

[2:03:12] questions but on the 10 minute uh you ask your question and if they didn't

[2:03:18] answer it you can ask a followup and then it goes to the next meeting where

[2:03:23] we discuss it as a whole. >> Okay. I I still don't I I

[2:03:29] » What are you suggesting >> that we don't put a limit on it and we

[2:03:33] just the chair is responsible for >> limited questions or limited time? Well,

[2:03:39] limited and and if you want to make it in time, then that's okay. The downside

[2:03:43] to that is that I I ask a question, it took 20 minutes to get a response. So, I

[2:03:47] don't want that to chew up my time limit. If I get a 5 minute or 10 minute

[2:03:51] time limit, I don't want somebody else talking to waste my time. So, um I just

[2:03:56] think that, you know, judging by how the meeting's going and and how, you know,

[2:04:00] if it's pertaining to what's going on and stuff like that, it's up to the

[2:04:03] chair to kind of pull us back down and and pull the reins in on us a little

[2:04:06] bit. But I I don't think you have to put it in paper that it's one question cuz

[2:04:11] otherwise if it's in paper that it's one question. It shouldn't be one question

[2:04:14] when we want it to be. It should be one question all the time.

[2:04:19] We might just like to leave it as it is and then put some language that the cler

[2:04:23] would manage all that

[2:04:27] time.

[2:04:33] » Okay. So, the members of council are limited to ask the presenter questions

[2:04:39] and that a followup may be done right away if the question was not fully

[2:04:44] answered. Who can >> and I'm okay with language in there of

[2:04:47] the chair reserves the right to to limit your questions. Y

[2:04:50] » so I'm not sitting here with 40 questions asking and trying to waste

[2:04:53] everybody's time. >> Yes,

[2:04:56] » absolutely. That's what I was going to mention about the chair should be the

[2:05:01] the ultimate authority of this table anyway and he should have the authority

[2:05:06] to say you've asked your question now you know uh if I'm

[2:05:13] » whatever rule of thumb I try and make sure that everybody has an opportunity

[2:05:20] » someone has two questions but >> okay

[2:05:23] » can I can I butt in uh uh Mayor Raymond >> certainly

[2:05:28] Um, I think if I'm not mistaken, if it's not in our bylaws, I know it's in like

[2:05:32] the Robert's rules of things, um, where it's not usually common practice to

[2:05:36] limit the amount of questions asked per counselor, but there is, uh, we all have

[2:05:41] the right to call the motion to a vote, which then limits us to a final

[2:05:46] clarification. Um, if I remember correctly, that's

[2:05:49] already in our bylaws.

[2:05:53] Like if if things are going on, we're talking in [clears throat] circles.

[2:05:56] anyone has the right around the table to call the motion to a vote to wrap things

[2:06:02] up.

[2:06:05] And that's why we're removing one question. If we're just going to say uh

[2:06:12] members of council

[2:06:16] can ask questions and that a followup may be done right away if the question

[2:06:22] was not fully answered. So that that takes care of your first one, limit. So

[2:06:28] we we all agreed to that. And the other one, if we're going in circles, well,

[2:06:34] sure, it's it's in it's elsewhere in our rules and procedures.

[2:06:41] Per We're done with this one. Sorry, I just

[2:06:44] I wasn't finished. I had another one on 3.13.

[2:06:47] » Me, too. >> We can get through this one if you want.

[2:06:51] » Thanks. Are we okay? >> Yeah.

[2:06:55] » Okay. >> Three.

[2:06:58] » Yeah. 3.13. Um again, um I don't think that we should be limiting the

[2:07:04] questions. I'm okay with the time limit for the residents to ask questions um so

[2:07:09] that it doesn't get out of hand. And I know that sometimes we've been here 30

[2:07:12] 40 minutes, but that's that's the job. Um we're elected to be here and I think

[2:07:15] that those people should be able to ask those questions. Um, again, I think it's

[2:07:20] the chair that has to manage those sometimes and unfortunately has to be

[2:07:24] the bad guy to say, you know, okay, you're you're baiting into questions now

[2:07:29] and you're on question 14 and, you know, this has gone on long enough. Let's have

[2:07:33] a personal meeting or something along those lines to discuss further. Um, but

[2:07:37] I think it's up to the chair to manage um on a case by case uh

[2:07:44] case by case scenario. We'll just remove the first bullets

[2:07:52] and that will do it. Council Ross.

[2:07:57] » So I was under the impression and maybe I'm wrong that when you that the

[2:08:02] questions were no longer going to have to be pertaining to the agenda.

[2:08:09] Were they was that not talked about that members of the public could come and in

[2:08:16] a question period they could like say somebody has a question about

[2:08:20] maybe the brooms anything that they could ask that question and hopefully it

[2:08:25] could be answered and if not you would try and get an answer to them soon.

[2:08:29] » That that was my my recollection. Yeah, that was mentioned. Okay.

[2:08:33] » But the answer to that was petitions and delegation. people have something that's

[2:08:38] not on on the agenda and they have a question, they can they can file a an

[2:08:45] application with the clerk to be heard and they get 10 minutes rather than one

[2:08:48] question. >> Okay.

[2:08:51] » But that's what I think it came out to. So,

[2:08:54] » okay. >> So, and I know that we had received

[2:08:57] sorry we had received the letters someone saying that there used to be two

[2:09:01] question period. There's still there's the delegation and uh

[2:09:06] » okay >> and that's where it doesn't have to be

[2:09:08] on the agenda. You just have to be on the agenda to make that presentation to

[2:09:13] council. >> Okay.

[2:09:18] » Garden my recollection from that conversation was the point that I was

[2:09:22] really trying to drive home was that it was questions and comments not just

[2:09:25] questions because we've seen it time and time again. You can word anything as a

[2:09:29] question. Put a question mark at the end of it. It's become a question. But um

[2:09:33] that was my uh my preference was to see questions and comments

[2:09:38] » pertaining to the agenda.

[2:09:41] » And I never stop the comment. So unless catch repetitive.

[2:09:50] » What are you doing on this one? >> Leaving the same or you remove the first

[2:09:54] bullet. Okay. >> Yeah. But just taking the first bullet

[2:09:56] out being it's one question >> and then the wording for the second

[2:10:01] bullet will just date be allowed a follow up to said question if not fully

[2:10:07] answered. >> Correct.

[2:10:08] » Yes.

[2:10:14] » Any other uh questions? No. >> We went through all the uh all the

[2:10:20] sections so we can list them on on the on the motion.

[2:10:25] So I guess we're So I'm going to ask for a mover in a secular to accept the uh

[2:10:31] the report.

[2:10:43] So moved by councelor Gardner, seconded by councelor tair. Be it resolved that

[2:10:48] council of the corporation of the town of Madawa receives report number 26-34R

[2:10:55] titled changes to council procedures and bylaws bylaw and governance policy.

[2:11:02] Questions, comments, please.

[2:11:06] » Recorded vote requested by councelor Le.

[2:11:12] » Questions, comments.

[2:11:16] Yes. >> Councelor Gardner.

[2:11:19] » Yes. >> Councelor Tber.

[2:11:21] » Yes. >> Councelor Bigalow.

[2:11:23] » Yes. >> Councelor Ross.

[2:11:25] » Yes. >> Councelor Vick.

[2:11:28] » Yes. >> And Mayor Hane.

[2:11:30] » Yes. >> Motion is carried unanimous.

[2:11:33] » Okay. Now I uh I need a mover and a seconder to accept the uh sections that

[2:11:39] are going to be uh amended and that'll bylaw be brought back. We

[2:11:45] have to move the secondary.

[2:11:57] » Okay. Be uh moved by councelor Gardner, seconded by councelor Levite. Be it

[2:12:03] resolved that council approves the following section changes to governance

[2:12:07] policy 3 council meetings policy as provided in report number 26-34R

[2:12:16] section number 3.1.1 section number 3.1.2

[2:12:24] section number 3.2.2

[2:12:28] section 3.5.4 4, section 3.4,

[2:12:34] section 3.12.3, and section 3.13.

[2:12:40] And further that, council direct staff to return at a regular meeting with the

[2:12:45] changes to be adopted by way of bylaw. Questions, comments?

[2:12:54] » Ready to vote? Okay. And all councelor Mick. Uh, no.

[2:13:01] » Okay. And the rest of us, all in favor? >> Carried

[2:13:16] 9.2 2 uh report prepared by CEO treasurer report number 26-35R

[2:13:24] report from uh sorry it's titled Voyer days 2026

[2:13:30] oops Paul thank you

[2:13:35] yes so we're days

[2:13:39] 2026 or 27th annual is over and done again for those in attendance It's uh

[2:13:47] really less of great weather all weekend. Uh so that's uh three years in

[2:13:52] a row I think of good weather. Um attendance uh I'll just say it

[2:13:59] disappointing for me and I think for us but uh we hit just under 1,800

[2:14:06] people in attendance or 82% of what they call break even. So at a later date

[2:14:11] we'll come back with the final cost uh for the weekend um we will be below even

[2:14:19] I don't know how much but we do below u so in this report uh rather than looking

[2:14:27] on that uh looking at voyer days from a financial economic impact to communities

[2:14:36] and what it means to leave and out of one area and all of the three get

[2:14:42] testified. So, uh, the first thing we focused on is

[2:14:46] from that one, which is where the ticket sales are by origin. And I thought you

[2:14:52] might find it interesting to see who supports us and where they come from.

[2:14:56] And you can see that um, they do come from far and wide. It's not just, you

[2:15:01] know, close by here. It's it's all over the province and even even out of. And

[2:15:07] so the the ones that we're focusing on are the out oftowners with 911

[2:15:14] uh out of town tickets need deemed to contribute to u

[2:15:20] economical impact, financial impact for the weekend is they're the ones that are

[2:15:24] going to book motel and buy their gas and their groceries and go to

[2:15:28] restaurants and uh you know maybe you know the retail stores and liquor so on

[2:15:34] and and when you put uh information in to the Ontario tourism model for

[2:15:41] Northern Ontario Festival. It kicks out a fairly impressive

[2:15:45] uh estimate of $475,000 of direct impact to the area. And then

[2:15:53] when you add the indirect uh as well because those businesses that

[2:15:59] are being uh patronized have to hire staff, bring staff on, buy more

[2:16:05] supplies, you know, and so on. So they estimate up to they name the province uh

[2:16:11] up to 750 to $800,000 of of potential total economic impact, which is huge.

[2:16:18] And uh and I'm you know if I don't have any blinders on it's not all formal uh

[2:16:24] the area gets that all the way in North Bay the biggest center and the most

[2:16:29] hotels and restaurants and they they would get a big chunk of that but so and

[2:16:34] all our businesses on the main street and all the vendors that were there and

[2:16:38] so on and then our grocery stores and the gas stations and the restaurants and

[2:16:43] you know all the hotels around the area doesn't have a lot but nothing and so

[2:16:50] So, it is uh it is a uh an important weekend.

[2:16:56] Pew said that uh we spend $50,000 on an economic initiative and that would yield

[2:17:03] a half a million or $500,000 benefit. I would do that in a heartbeat. We do

[2:17:10] that in a weekend. So, uh it gives something for you to think about. So

[2:17:16] there is in appendix two there the detail which comes right out of that

[2:17:21] prevention model in terms of how the benefit is calculated how they go about

[2:17:26] doing it and if you spend time knowing it it's fairly reasonable and uh gives

[2:17:31] credibility to the whole thing. So I think for me um there's a lot of work to

[2:17:37] run for you days and the staff will tell you uh it's an incredible amount of work

[2:17:42] and it's easy to say yeah but I tell you see it every day and I kind of step back

[2:17:46] and watch what everybody does. It's an enormous amount of work but there is to

[2:17:52] the community the most biggest financial impact of the year. So, um, what I don't

[2:17:58] want, I'd rather not want is council decides they want to go ahead with it. I

[2:18:03] don't want to find out in January or February next year that, yeah, let's do

[2:18:06] it because you're not your hands behind your back. And if we're going to council

[2:18:10] wants to do it, then it'd be nice to know so that we can start planning now.

[2:18:15] I'm not saying that's what we want to do, but if your council council's wishes

[2:18:19] that we go forward, then tell us. Thank you.

[2:18:24] » Questions, comments? Councelor Ross. >> Yeah, I I think I think Boyer Bay's work

[2:18:30] is amazing. I don't know what this the piece of town would do without it,

[2:18:34] especially the businesses. Same thing with the other one, the small fries that

[2:18:38] they all bring in such a huge amount of money to our local people. And on top of

[2:18:44] that, it it puts it puts us on the map. People coming through, they say, you

[2:18:49] know, let's go and stay there. Maybe they'll open business. There's an empty

[2:18:53] store. We need to think of that. I I think Lori Shay is always going to be a

[2:18:58] go because I think you can't get that kind of publicity for the amount of

[2:19:02] money that we spend. As far as I'm concerned

[2:19:06] » that's it.

[2:19:10] I think it's a it's a worthwhile festival and I think some of the counsel

[2:19:16] had a great time hangovers and everything

[2:19:20] but the thing is is that it's an event that's been 26 years

[2:19:27] » and I know I know that we have a little deficit sometime but look at the impact

[2:19:33] it does in the area. Everybody benefits from it. Even people that want to

[2:19:39] participate in their parks to cater food, uh they all participate in it.

[2:19:45] They got music. They they make some money on it also. And the the clubs,

[2:19:51] breakfast, suppers, golden age, Lions Club, we were all successful. I'm

[2:19:58] telling you, I remember the the Lions Club and the their breakfast was

[2:20:02] awesome. Mind you, they didn't get as much as the one last year because it's a

[2:20:05] lower attendance, but they still made very well. So, I would suggest that we

[2:20:11] move ASAP and give them the authority to reorganize it again, but early and start

[2:20:18] doing search for the for the bets. >> Any other comments regarding?

[2:20:26] » Yeah, I'm not going to get too far into it. just without financials, it's it's

[2:20:30] hard for me to comment like it's taxpayer dollars in the end. So, I think

[2:20:35] that's the most important thing to me. Um, where those numbers land will kind

[2:20:39] of guide my decision moving forward. Uh I think it's a little bit unfair um for

[2:20:45] this council to to maybe commit you know that kind of money half half a million

[2:20:49] dollars approximately um for the next council uh in their first budget and you

[2:20:55] know without even having the financials from this event. Um so I'd like to see

[2:20:59] those before I kind of get right into it. But my comment has always kind of

[2:21:04] been the same with with Voyager Days is that um we're kind of that awkward in

[2:21:08] between stage where we're too big of a budget for locals to support and shows

[2:21:14] uh you know half the but the people are local that are attending and half are

[2:21:18] coming from further away. Um but really you should probably be attracting more.

[2:21:23] So, we're we're too big of a budget for locals to support, but we're too small

[2:21:27] of a budget to attract people from, you know, all over the place to to really

[2:21:32] come and take over the town. Um, so we can't rely on just locals to support the

[2:21:37] festival anymore. Um, it's become a big expensive venture and a lot of people in

[2:21:41] our community can't afford it. I'd like to see us try to come up with some local

[2:21:45] initiatives during the weekend that maybe aren't required uh um to have a

[2:21:50] brace like local bands or something like that. you said a Thursday night. Maybe

[2:21:53] we can do locals on Thursday night that local people can go to, you know, things

[2:21:57] like that. But uh yeah, I I have [snorts] lots of ideas for how we can uh

[2:22:03] try to revive it, but until I see financials, I'm not really prepared to

[2:22:07] commit to anything moving on and uh last comment was just thank you to staff. I

[2:22:12] » appreciate everything that you guys do for it. Um, I run a I run a weekend uh

[2:22:17] event um and put in the hours for that and uh you truly appreciate what

[2:22:22] everybody puts in for those events uh when you do those things kinds of

[2:22:26] things. So, um I know what it's like and appreciate all the work that uh you guys

[2:22:30] put into it to get us to where we are. >> Any other comments

[2:22:36] here? Yeah, >> first off, I I I love how the uh report

[2:22:41] is laid out, especially for our tourism and and everything like that. I think we

[2:22:46] have a really good example of of the impact. Um I ironically I I also do

[2:22:53] agree with Matt, but I was actually going to ask a question of how quickly

[2:22:56] we we we could get the financials back. Um because I would like absolutely sad

[2:23:03] me way way more time and way more time to plan for this and to get things done.

[2:23:07] However, it it is hard to move things forward without knowing the financial

[2:23:12] side. I would ask the question of how quickly. Um but yeah, ultimately I we we

[2:23:19] need more time. Absolutely. Um it was my critique actually of of last year in my

[2:23:23] own head and hearing as staff today and over the weekend. It's absolutely what's

[2:23:28] needed. Um I would ask you say the um CEO in terms of what how how quickly

[2:23:34] could we potentially get the financials back after the event

[2:23:41] and yeah I guess counc

[2:23:45] » I'm of the same opinion that I don't think I can make a decision without the

[2:23:49] financials I'd like to know exactly what it costs and what the tax portion was of

[2:23:57] that I seen this report. I like it. It's It's a lot of benefit to the community,

[2:24:03] but also I'd like to know what actually cost us

[2:24:08] or the taxpayers. I mean, doesn't

[2:24:14] councelor Mick, any comments? >> Um, yeah. I just I I thank you to the

[2:24:21] staff and I agree with pretty well everything's been said. Um, I I I I do

[2:24:26] bring it up. uh almost every year I think since we got rid of the voyage

[2:24:31] days committee that we did turn a profit when we did have the committee um

[2:24:35] involved. So um maybe I'll throw together a report asking for the

[2:24:40] reinstatement of the voyage commit me when we do get the um the financials in.

[2:24:46] Um, that being said, I'd be happy to pass a motion tonight. Um,

[2:24:53] planning on next year's festival. Um, because I do agree that, um, the more

[2:24:58] time the better to to make sure all of our tees are crossed and eyes are

[2:25:03] dotted. Um, which is, uh, a little less stressful for everyone involved.

[2:25:11] » Thank you. That leaves, uh, me. So I think everyone knows that I'm a I am a

[2:25:18] supporter of war days. I called it an institution.

[2:25:24] I also understand that it's a it's a huge uh undertaking

[2:25:30] and uh hats off to all of our staff that uh somehow managed to pull it off year

[2:25:38] in year out. Um we've got a lot of interesting

[2:25:42] numbers that the uh report provided us with and the one thing we don't take to

[2:25:48] account in that report is that a lot of people take in voyure

[2:25:54] days without paid admission and that is extra money also that's

[2:26:00] dropped in our town. If you drive around, you'll see in neighbors yards,

[2:26:05] trailers, you know, some some people don't make it to the site, but they're

[2:26:10] spending money in Madawa, you know, and when uh I hear that the Mawa's

[2:26:15] population doubles, well, just with the ticket sales that almost did. So, if you

[2:26:21] if you go around and see what's happening and councelor Debite talked

[2:26:25] about the parks and everything, there's no uh vacancy anywhere in town. And uh

[2:26:32] you know I I think it's our biggest um our our biggest uh

[2:26:40] » not event but uh EDO uh economic development uh uh

[2:26:49] maneuver and it would be a shame to let it go. um things that we don't mention

[2:26:54] also and I think uh councelor dev did many service clubs benefit from it also

[2:27:01] you know it helps them to uh the keep their head above water when things are a

[2:27:07] little rougher uh the Brian Bangs Memorial Fish Derby you know I know it

[2:27:13] probably would survive alone but with Voyager attached to it you know it's

[2:27:18] it's a big draw it's huge Um, I can't, having said all this, I

[2:27:25] can't speak both sides of my mouth. A while ago, I wasn't okay to make a

[2:27:30] decision for the next term of council. And uh, I like what I hear. Some want to

[2:27:36] see the the true finances. And uh, did I see that in your report, Paul, that uh,

[2:27:43] we could probably have that first meeting in September?

[2:27:47] » Yeah, I didn't give a date, but I think that's reasonable. Yeah,

[2:27:50] » that's reasonable. So, uh myself. Uh you know, having said

[2:27:54] that, uh it's financially it's still viable. I I I'd love to support it. Do I

[2:28:00] support it for the next term of council? I I have to make that tough decision at

[2:28:06] some point. I can't say that for one and then turn around and do the total

[2:28:11] opposite for another one. So, I'll leave it at that.

[2:28:16] So we have a motion here to accept the uh the report. Do we need a move or

[2:28:22] second?

[2:28:28] So moved by councelor D seconded by councelor Ross. Be it resolved that

[2:28:34] council of the corporation of the town of Ottawa receives report number 26-35R

[2:28:42] titled voyer days 2026

[2:28:46] questions comments none I'll call for a vote councelor Nick

[2:28:52] » yes >> and all in favor

[2:29:02] We also have a motion here to uh to commit to holding the voyer days for

[2:29:09] next year. We even ask for an amount. So I need a move in the secondary move that

[2:29:14] we do proceed

[2:29:18] and move the secondary

[2:29:24] because it's okay.

[2:29:33] So I need an amount of >> So do I put the same amount as this

[2:29:40] here?

[2:29:46] Okay. Council guardian. >> Yeah. I'm just asking for clarification.

[2:29:50] So would this be something that could be

[2:29:54] deferred? Like technically if we're lame dial, we can't make commitments of over

[2:29:58] $50,000, but the $50,000 would be a commitment

[2:30:02] for the 2027 spending year. Not for this term of lame

[2:30:09] duck. Right. >> Right.

[2:30:12] » Okay. So, could we make that decision deferred until the financials come in

[2:30:20] or >> no?

[2:30:27] If the financial come in for the next meeting, are we in lame at next meeting?

[2:30:31] » Possibly. Yes. Okay. We'll find out on August 21st at 2 p.m. in Linga. But

[2:30:39] don't we meet on the 10th of September?

[2:30:45] » August 21st, we could be our the first uh case that we could

[2:30:51] » Yes, sir. >> And then after the election,

[2:30:56] » we could again be uh in a situation. >> Okay. Considering the amount of uh

[2:31:03] candidates >> I have another word proceeding yes

[2:31:05] clarification >> is there a way or a mechanism that we

[2:31:09] can defer this till later in the meeting because there's an implication that

[2:31:14] could come up out of this later where the CEO could be delegated authority to

[2:31:18] be able to do these things. >> I I I say we just accept the uh

[2:31:25] » the the report and let's see what happens. because and I'm asking the

[2:31:31] clerk this is defeated we can't bring it back.

[2:31:38] So that's why I'd say >> you know it hasn't been read. I've asked

[2:31:43] for bring a secondary I asked for the amount

[2:31:47] » and we all know there's going to be a report in September

[2:31:53] which we could be away from lame duck but it's still late in our term.

[2:32:01] » So so I'm I'm asking it's up to you guys what you want to do. I think we should

[2:32:05] proceed because they do go in lame duck and they're going into January whatever

[2:32:11] it is they don't want to have enough time to get a ticket. I totally agree

[2:32:15] with the CEO. If we want to do it, we do it now.

[2:32:18] » But if that's we can't bring it back. >> Well, I understand that there's not you

[2:32:23] can't bring that motion reconsideration. >> We could

[2:32:28] from the defeat >> if we're not in lame duck,

[2:32:31] » right? That's

[2:32:35] » but but if it gets defeated then you could give direction to the CEO if he

[2:32:40] gets delegated powers to proceed with it.

[2:32:43] » Not with this you know not according to what I read.

[2:32:47] » Yeah we can >> yeah we can

[2:32:50] » access to $50,000 so

[2:32:54] » want just not go forward with this motion.

[2:33:00] Well, it's on the floor. >> No, you have been read.

[2:33:05] » Well, there's a second. >> Yeah, but it hasn't been read.

[2:33:09] » I think we should go proceed with it. >> Bring a for

[2:33:16] a second. >> Think we want to move it forward.

[2:33:19] » Okay. So, here we go. It's moved by councelor

[2:33:24] Levite, seconded by councelor Ross. Be it resolved that council commits to

[2:33:31] holding Madawa Voyager Days for the year 2027

[2:33:36] and further that council approves a budget for the 2027 Madawa Voyager Days

[2:33:42] event in the amount of $460,000.

[2:33:48] Last chance for questions or comments. >> Courted vote. Yes, I have that reported

[2:33:53] vote relicing by councelor.

[2:33:58] No questions, no comments. >> Answer tar.

[2:34:03] » No. >> Councelor,

[2:34:06] » yes. >> Councelor Ross,

[2:34:09] » yes.

[2:34:13] » Councelor Gardner, >> no.

[2:34:16] » Councelor Mick, >> yes.

[2:34:20] Councelor Bigalow. >> Yes.

[2:34:24] » And Mayor Blanch, >> no.

[2:34:27] » Motion is carried with a recorded vote of 48 in 3 days.

[2:34:33] » Thank you.

[2:34:39] » Okay. 93.

[2:34:43] Whoops.

[2:34:49] Thank you. >> 9.3.

[2:34:51] It's the landfill renewal report number 26-36R

[2:34:59] prepared by the director of community services.

[2:35:03] Dexter, the floor is yours. >> For sure. Um, so the, uh, contract at

[2:35:10] the landfill is up. Uh, the renewable terms are up as well.

[2:35:16] Uh I'll just read through the the background here quickly. On September

[2:35:20] 27, 2021, the corporation found Madawa enacted

[2:35:24] bylaw 2123 to execute the Madawa landfill site operations agreement with

[2:35:29] Dumo backwood services. The original contract covered a 5-year term starting

[2:35:35] October 1st, 2021 ending September 30th, 2026.

[2:35:41] Section 1.2 of schedule A allows for contract extension options upon mutual

[2:35:46] consent. Standing the agreement for one-year term

[2:35:51] ensures uninterrupted operation of our municipal enthal site in compliance with

[2:35:56] the MACD and our approved uh CFA.

[2:36:03] Um just uh important to note uh from a financial perspective, these numbers

[2:36:09] stay the same over the course of the year. No changes uh no changes to the

[2:36:14] base rate, no changes to the attendance, no changes to the mixed loads, no change

[2:36:19] to sand cover material needed. Um just so we're on the same page, site

[2:36:26] maintenance and cover. Uh the contractor's responsibilities are

[2:36:30] spreading and compacting waste, excavating and hauling cover material,

[2:36:35] maintaining waste piles, wood, drywall, shingles, construction, demolition

[2:36:41] materials, and maintaining the areas adjacent to uh the recycling area.

[2:36:47] uh compacting and covering the active face with 150 mls depth three days a

[2:36:53] week uh May 1st through November 1st and one day a week for the rest of the year.

[2:36:58] That's what the contract says, but technically the the um what has to

[2:37:02] happen is anytime there is refu at the landfill, it does happen covered. But uh

[2:37:07] we kind of use snow as a temporary cover and we use um a mix of uh the wood wood

[2:37:14] chips. So that's that's what's covered. >> Uh two landfill attentants are provided

[2:37:20] Saturdays from 9:00 a.m. to noon. Um and they direct users to where to dispose

[2:37:31] uh ensuring operators are uh it's important to ensure that the operators

[2:37:36] uh have their safety and emergency response and ECA regulatory training. So

[2:37:42] something that happens with the contractor is the contractor and the two

[2:37:45] attendants uh review our CFA requirements and uh and they sign off on

[2:37:50] them and that is provided to uh the ministry and compliance and reporting.

[2:37:56] Uh they have to do uh daily landfill health and safety inspections. They have

[2:38:00] to carry $5 million liability and provide WSIB clearances

[2:38:06] uh which are are providing as well as the written reports. I get

[2:38:12] into a little bit of a report on the contractor here. So Carl, the owner of

[2:38:17] backho services has always worked respectfully and professionally with the

[2:38:21] town of Ottawa when it comes to adjustments that need to be made at the

[2:38:23] landfill. Logs are provided in a timely manner and feedback is always accepted.

[2:38:29] Uh for additional work, quotes are always provided and uh and we have a

[2:38:34] scope of that additional work. Uh there have been some concerns of

[2:38:39] mischief at the and theft of at the landfill from the public. Uh these

[2:38:44] concerns have been brought to the attention of the OP and additional trips

[2:38:47] by the OP to the landfill have taken place. Uh since those trips have taken

[2:38:53] place, we've seen a a decrease in those efforts.

[2:38:56] uh due to ongoing concerns uh we have purchased two solar cameras of which

[2:39:02] will be installed at the landfill site for monthly.

[2:39:06] So, at this time, uh, with the contract expiring September 30th, it's

[2:39:10] recommended, uh, that we move forward with a one-year contract extension with

[2:39:14] more active services. And if you have questions, okay,

[2:39:19] that's good. >> So, obviously, time is of the essence

[2:39:24] for this um, being that it expires uh, September 30th. Um

[2:39:30] I just as an idea is this something that we're meeting next week committee of a

[2:39:37] whole >> yes this point do we know we should be

[2:39:40] » no there's no other meeting and then next meeting is the second Monday of

[2:39:45] September >> okay because we're in it's

[2:39:52] » yeah so I I get the kind of the commitment that we have to make tonight

[2:39:56] I just really like when I look at landfill attendant cost $720. I know

[2:40:00] that a big issue in our community has always been that constituents complain

[2:40:03] about not having a second day. Um, so I'd love to see us bring in a second day

[2:40:08] and part of that contract and having a one-year contract or a one-year

[2:40:11] extension is probably the perfect time to trial that and see if it's worth it,

[2:40:16] to see if it works and see how we could do it. Um, I do know that we also don't

[2:40:20] allow commercial uh waste to be brought in on Saturdays anymore and we now

[2:40:25] charge them an opening fee of $60 on Tuesdays or Thursdays, which you have to

[2:40:31] call and make an appointment and uh then you have to meet somebody up there and

[2:40:34] hopefully everybody shows up and you get there and you get to do all that. If we

[2:40:37] had a day during the week that we could let in commercial waste and residential

[2:40:41] waste, it would be a little bit less busy because it's during the week. Um,

[2:40:44] but I would really like to see that. Um, and I'd like to kind of trial that for a

[2:40:49] year to see how it goes before this goes out this time next year um, for next

[2:40:54] council, but I I realize that that's not in here and you would have to talk to

[2:41:00] the contractor and come up with what that cost would be because there would

[2:41:03] be a cost. There would be a cost to them having people on site for that extra 3

[2:41:08] hours, whatever you want a week. Um I I wouldn't imagine there'd be so much on

[2:41:13] the cover part because from what I understand technically he's covering

[2:41:16] every day of the week, right? Technically covering every day of the

[2:41:19] week. So should be there covering on what would be a second day anyways. But

[2:41:24] I know that's something man that we get roasted on a lot. It's something that we

[2:41:28] really need to look at. It's something that our commercial businesses aren't

[2:41:31] happy with that they have to book a time and they have to call in and they have

[2:41:34] to pay the opening fee which is often more than what the garbage fee is. Um,

[2:41:39] so I really think that this is an opportunity to look at it for one year

[2:41:42] and to trial it.

[2:41:48] » Council

[2:41:52] it was Wednesday was me uh for commercial at the time we

[2:41:59] wasn't wasn't that implemented >> Tuesdays and Thursdays and it was

[2:42:03] implemented by council before us. >> Okay. So, I agree with you. I think we

[2:42:09] should have like a Wednesday for the commercial

[2:42:12] aspect with some residential stuff and then there'd be less lined up on

[2:42:18] Saturday and waiting to have directions to go in there because you got to waste

[2:42:23] a half an hour to 45 minutes before you get to your unloading your your garbage

[2:42:29] or scrap or metal or whatever it is. So is there something maybe uh you can look

[2:42:36] into somehow uh Mr. uh Sar? >> So um

[2:42:44] this this is this is the uh the landfill contract. This is the way it was

[2:42:49] created. >> Um

[2:42:52] just important to note the unionized staff implications. So, uh, so let's say

[2:42:57] for example, if you know what councelor gardener is looking for is a Saturday

[2:43:02] and a Sunday, well, we have a staff that works at the landfill as an attendant as

[2:43:06] well um, outside of this contract and they leave early on Friday, 4 hours. So,

[2:43:12] they work 4 hours on Saturday to make it not overtime on Saturdays. So, if I were

[2:43:18] to recommend something, um, my my recommendation, and I haven't even

[2:43:23] talked to my boss about this yet, so >> would would be to pick a day during the

[2:43:27] week. >> Yes. and to open for a period of time

[2:43:30] where it doesn't impact this contract >> or it allows for um for additional

[2:43:35] service and and then instead of having Tuesdays and Thursdays appointments, you

[2:43:40] can have this is the time that it's open on on Wednesdays or Tuesdays and

[2:43:45] Thursdays from this time to this time, which would allow our staff to be there

[2:43:48] for a period of time and allow it to be open where there's no there's no open

[2:43:53] fees for the >> uh for the contractor for or for the the

[2:43:58] commercial, >> show you the Wednesday, which would be

[2:44:01] perfect because then it's between two Saturdays. So,

[2:44:03] » I just I just wouldn't want to be in the scenario where we're taking all kinds of

[2:44:07] appointments on Tuesdays and all kinds of appointments on Thursdays, but then

[2:44:11] opening to nobody on Wednesdays. I think it either goes one or the other. Either

[2:44:15] we open and here's the time during the middle of the week or we we take

[2:44:19] appointments. >> I agree.

[2:44:22] Councelor Ross, >> I'm just curious as as to why a contract

[2:44:27] why they can't go, why they have to make an appointment.

[2:44:31] » So, um, uh, my understanding, uh, being on on the previous council,

[2:44:37] » at the time, it was a safety concern. >> Um, and it was the differentiation

[2:44:42] between having a triacle show up on a Saturday

[2:44:46] » versus a a commercial small trailer. There was no, you couldn't say yes to

[2:44:51] this one and no to this one. >> So, it was just no dumping. And it's not

[2:44:55] really safe when you have people going into the landfill and dump at the same

[2:44:58] time a big truck is there dumping. Um, so it was that's why it was eliminated.

[2:45:02] » Okay. >> Any other questions?

[2:45:09] garden. >> Just to follow up on that, like so if we

[2:45:11] did a say a Wednesday or Tuesday or whatever, I think that you would have a

[2:45:15] lot of commercial businesses use it because they would avoid having to pay

[2:45:18] that $60 fee to open every time um and having to be there for a set time. You

[2:45:22] know, things happen in business and you can't always be there at set time, but

[2:45:26] um >> would it be like I I'd really want to

[2:45:29] drive home that like it'd be open to residents, too. Like so we probably need

[2:45:33] staff there. Like I don't think it's just commercial. I don't think there's

[2:45:36] enough commercial to warrant somebody sitting there for 3 hours, but if we

[2:45:39] offered it to residents >> and

[2:45:41] » you'd probably get, you know, a quarter of what you get on a Saturday, but at

[2:45:44] least if you have commercial and residential on a Wednesday, then it

[2:45:48] might be worth the time to be open. >> But I would just say like I think it's

[2:45:53] outside of this contract. Um, and and we can take it back and obviously it's good

[2:45:58] feedback. Uh, and uh, we do realize that there's a need. It's nice nice rest to

[2:46:04] address it while we talking about this but I think we can come up with a a

[2:46:09] solution that works very

[2:46:13] » I was just going to say that same thing about I think we should if we do open

[2:46:18] the sale on a Wednesday for commercial they'll come if it's free to dump I mean

[2:46:25] it's not free to dump their their product but it's free to you come

[2:46:30] they'll they'll show up they'll show up for

[2:46:34] So, so my comment is can we go ahead and

[2:46:40] extend this for a year so we don't have a break in service.

[2:46:45] Okay. because we won't be able to make that decision maybe coming on the 21st

[2:46:50] or after the election and that once he's [snorts] uh

[2:46:58] he's uh agreed to the u the extension the one-year extension that staff come

[2:47:04] back to us with a proposal that uh you know we're going to try maybe Wednesday

[2:47:10] afternoons and uh >> figure out the uh the optics fix and uh

[2:47:16] then we can make that decision then. >> Go ahead.

[2:47:20] » Yeah. So just for greater clarity, the contractor

[2:47:24] has already agreed to the one year extension

[2:47:27] » subject to council's approval. We don't have to go back to the contractor. It's

[2:47:31] already >> it's already agreed if we if the table

[2:47:34] agrees. >> Yeah.

[2:47:35] » Okay. So that's >> but the director got that beforehand

[2:47:39] said if that so that's done. So I think what

[2:47:43] we're looking for is for council to say yes, yay, go ahead and renew for you.

[2:47:49] Piggy back onto that, the um additional service of the Wednesday or whatever day

[2:47:56] is decided, it's going to the director's point, it's going to fall alongside the

[2:48:00] contract. There's going to be some cost associated with that, but it's going to

[2:48:06] » be minimum >> manageable. There you go. It's not going

[2:48:10] to be a crazy number and I think we can come back and that calculated that

[2:48:15] council know what that is and say but I want to be able to secure the contractor

[2:48:21] now so that come October one will not operate

[2:48:28] » totally agree that you will come back to council with a proposal

[2:48:34] » sure for the Wednesday that's what I say yeah council dair Um,

[2:48:41] do you um wait I moved I got to think of implementing this Wednesday thing to do

[2:48:48] whatever day in this one year extension to try it out.

[2:48:53] You have the authority to um

[2:48:58] to spend up to $30,000 without >> in an emergency.

[2:49:04] And then if if an emergency >> it's 30

[2:49:09] » 50 >> pardon

[2:49:11] » 50 >> 50 emergency.

[2:49:15] » Okay. Yeah. >> Doesn't matter. So, couldn't you uh come

[2:49:18] up with a reasonable or a a price that's suitable to both

[2:49:24] our director and the contractor and just implement it without having to come back

[2:49:31] to us for >> No, I I I think it has to come back

[2:49:35] because it's outside of a contract. We have we have

[2:49:39] » we have to approve it. >> We have to approve it.

[2:49:42] » So, >> yeah, I think I think we're okay. We're

[2:49:45] on the right track. We'll we'll we'll we'll review the agreement for a year

[2:49:48] and then we'll have a sidebar to it. >> Exactly.

[2:49:51] » Which will be another day of service. Whatever the

[2:49:55] director decides to contest

[2:50:00] brush us along here, but I think we have >> three motions because we'll have these

[2:50:04] two and then we'll have to extend, >> right? So, we got to get all these done

[2:50:09] in 10 minutes. to go. >> Well, that's we're going in.

[2:50:15] » That's what I'm saying. So, we still have to pass one to extend beyond 9:00.

[2:50:19] So, we got three to do in 10 minutes. >> I thought we be doing that resolution

[2:50:25] pretty soon. >> That's what I'm saying.

[2:50:27] » Okay. So, that's where the B indicated they'd like to move it. Someone wants

[2:50:40] Okay. Moved by councelor Levite, seconded by councelor Gardner. Be

[2:50:44] resolved that council the corporation of the town receives report number 26-36R

[2:50:51] titled landfill renewal. Question comments

[2:50:55] calling for recorded vote requested by councelor.

[2:51:02] Question comments none.

[2:51:07] Council Levit. >> Yes.

[2:51:09] » Council Gartner. >> Yes.

[2:51:11] » Councelor M. >> Yes.

[2:51:13] » Council Ross. >> Yes.

[2:51:15] » Councelor Tar. >> Yes.

[2:51:17] » Councelor [snorts] Bigo. >> Yes.

[2:51:19] » And Mayor.

[2:51:22] » Yes. Sorry. >> Motion is carried unanimously.

[2:51:28] » And I need a seconder for the other part.

[2:51:35] So moved by councelor Gardner, second by councelor Ross. It resolved that council

[2:51:42] authorized the mayor and CEO pressure to execute a one-year contract extension

[2:51:48] with dumo backo services for landfill site operations services maintaining the

[2:51:54] existing rate of pay under bylaw 21- 23.

[2:52:01] questions, comments. I'm going to call for a vote. Councelor

[2:52:05] Mick, >> yes.

[2:52:07] » And all in favor?

[2:52:15] » Do we have that uh motion ready?

[2:52:20] in fact

[2:52:35] a second to move past 9:5.

[2:52:44] So moved by councelor Ross, seconded by councelor Le. He had resolved that

[2:52:49] council will agree to continue the meeting past the allotted the allotted

[2:52:53] time of 900 p.m. not to continue past 10 p.m. Questions, comments?

[2:53:01] None. Call for a vote. Councelor Mick. >> No.

[2:53:06] » Okay. And all in favor? Carried.

[2:53:19] Oh, my cell phone.

[2:53:24] » 9.4 uh

[2:53:28] garbage collection report number 26-37R report from uh the director of community

[2:53:35] services, Dexter Floor is yours.

[2:53:39] » All right. So, uh, another report to add to a bit of a history lesson here, but,

[2:53:44] uh, unlike, uh, or like the landfill, um, we rely on contracted services for

[2:53:51] the collection and transportation of residential and commercial waste within

[2:53:54] the town. The current extension agreement executed with Paul Afanir

[2:53:59] Contracting covers three uh, the three-year period from January 1st, 2024

[2:54:04] through December 31st, 2026. Um, at this time we'd like to go to

[2:54:12] tender uh for this contract and uh here here's some of the reasons why. So one,

[2:54:17] the contract and its extensions have expired. The existing agreement contains

[2:54:23] no further renewal options past December 31st, 2026. Garbage collection services

[2:54:29] were originally tendered under bylaw 12-04 and later extended through a

[2:54:34] three-year agreement signed in 2021 or sorry in 2024.

[2:54:39] The 2024 to 2026 agreement fulfilled the final extension terms available under

[2:54:46] the municipal contract framework. And the second reason is uh we've also

[2:54:51] recently had the transition to uh uh the new recycling program. So under

[2:54:57] Ontario's blue box regulation uh shifts the responsibility for residential

[2:55:03] commercial uh residential recycling collection is transitioning to the

[2:55:08] producer responsibility organization. Consequently,

[2:55:12] recycling collection services have been fully removed from this agreement

[2:55:17] and uh we require a new structured RFP focused solely on garbage collection.

[2:55:24] Uh our goal here is to initiate the RF3 RFP process in advance of uh January 1,

[2:55:30] 2027. And uh if you're not familiar, um the

[2:55:36] scope of the contract is as follows. residential and commercial garbage

[2:55:40] collection within our service area. Uh obviously here's the the service

[2:55:47] population of a thousand households and roughly 30 commercial establishments.

[2:55:52] Uh we have a uh weekly pickup from May 1st to October 31st and a bi-weekly

[2:55:59] pickup uh November 1st through April 30th. And uh the commercial schedule is

[2:56:06] 104 collections per year roughly. Uh but there's in some cases the there is

[2:56:13] additional pickup scheduled by the contractor with the commercial

[2:56:17] industrial entities in our community. Um

[2:56:22] getting into uh the details uh they also empty our public receptacles um on a uh

[2:56:30] a schedule of five weekly. So that's those receptacles you see in Main

[2:56:34] Street, Waterfront, uh Conservation Island, along the dog walking routes. Uh

[2:56:40] they're responsible for emptying those at the occasional time. They fill up

[2:56:43] quicker than they can get emptied and and we end up picking them up. And

[2:56:48] they're responsible for their own supplies, uh trash bags and those

[2:56:52] cannons and so on and so forth.

[2:56:57] Uh just some information there that uh all the waste collected goes to our

[2:57:01] landfill and uh important part here is uh the

[2:57:07] verification of the town's clearest see-through bag policy and the two bag

[2:57:12] uh can legally residential limit. So what's important to note is that

[2:57:16] stipulation is only within the contract. There's no other policy that says that

[2:57:21] that is either a bylaw or a policy. um non-compliant materials, hazardous

[2:57:28] items, yard waste, golf refues, uh those items,

[2:57:33] uh will be identified by myself, um and and the public works supervisor if

[2:57:38] people are trying to [clears throat] represent those and and we're out here

[2:57:42] in contract. Uh just historical comparison. So here's

[2:57:48] the history lesson for you. What started out as uh around $68,000 a year in 2015

[2:57:54] for garbage pickup has now got to about $165,000

[2:58:00] a year plus HST over 11 years.

[2:58:06] Um so anything uh outside of the scope that

[2:58:10] needs to be picked up is at a rate of $65 an hour plus fuel search charge.

[2:58:17] uh like the landfill required to maintain $5 million uh liability uh WSIB

[2:58:23] clearances and uh and then we retain the right to

[2:58:29] withhold 10% of the monthly contract for any undirect deficiencies. But since

[2:58:34] I've been here not been a case and really right now what we're trying

[2:58:39] to do is get ahead of this before December 31st. Um so uh we're looking uh

[2:58:46] to create an RFP uh between now and the end of September,

[2:58:51] September, October uh public advertisement. Uh November evaluation of

[2:58:56] those bids in December um hopefully have something in place for

[2:59:01] the new council um to be approved and then uh a contract report as well.

[2:59:08] So Paul, the owner of Paul ANER contracting has always worked

[2:59:12] respectfully and professionally with the town of Ottawa when it comes to

[2:59:15] adjustments that need to be made as well. Uh adjustments in communication

[2:59:19] with the contractor have been inconsistent. However, pickups continue

[2:59:23] to occur as scheduled for residential. Um in times where the garbage truck is

[2:59:30] down for repair, alternative arrangements are always made by the

[2:59:34] contractor. Now in the contract it says reports and

[2:59:38] tracking logs from the contractor are to be provided to the municipality. Uh I

[2:59:43] have not received those uh as it pertains to the collection agreement.

[2:59:47] However, the forms that the agreement refers to are not something we are able

[2:59:52] to track. So it's something that we're working on. Um but we do talk from time

[2:59:57] to time and do have um verbal updates. Otherwise, uh what we're looking for as

[3:00:05] a recommendation um is to proceed with creating a an RFP and proceed with the

[3:00:10] process and uh be able to have an agreement in place before the December

[3:00:15] 31st uh 2026 deadline. >> Questions, comments

[3:00:21] today. >> Um did we uh uh apply two I think we had

[3:00:28] two three years extensions that we could use and we use both them.

[3:00:38] else regarding. >> Yeah, just I I think that every once in

[3:00:42] a while it's good to go out to market and kind of see where things land. I

[3:00:45] know that in my term we haven't really done that till we put an RFP out and um

[3:00:51] you know it's it's it's ballooned significantly from 2023 to to today's.

[3:00:57] So in a matter of few years it's gone up 200%. Um, so it's drastically increased.

[3:01:02] And are we getting more for our service or

[3:01:06] more service for our our payment? I don't know. I I really I like the

[3:01:10] contractor. I like that it's a local contractor. I like that they do the

[3:01:14] little tin bit of things of cleaning up the garbage or picking up the garbage on

[3:01:17] Main Street and stuff like that that, you know, you might not always get with

[3:01:21] other contractors. But at the same time, I I know that we often run into truck

[3:01:25] issues and then there's always people on Facebook commenting about that and upset

[3:01:29] about that. But the biggest thing to me is just it's gone up significantly in

[3:01:33] price and and that kind of concerns me. I'd like to see kind of where the

[3:01:37] market's at with it and see if we could do better.

[3:01:42] » Counselor Mike, >> looking at the figures that he presented

[3:01:46] to us and uh you're only $6,500 or $7,000 sorry difference.

[3:01:54] So, uh, with the cost of fuel, insurance, employees, and benefits,

[3:02:01] whatever they need to keep these, uh, trucks going and repairs and

[3:02:06] maintenance, I tell you, as a courier, it costs a fortune. Believe me, you got

[3:02:12] to see the expenses you get when you have repairs. And if that's the price it

[3:02:17] is, I tell you, when bring in a contractor from out of town that has to

[3:02:21] come here, bring your vehicles here, bring them back home to North Bay and

[3:02:26] all this stuff. I don't think you're going to get any cheaper than that.

[3:02:32] » But then who says it's from out of town? Could be someone else from town, too.

[3:02:37] That's what an RFP is. >> Is to see

[3:02:40] » it could they're going to have to get really equipped, provide all that

[3:02:43] equipment. Can I just get the clarification? What do you mean that

[3:02:46] there's a $7,000 difference? >> Well, you look at

[3:02:49] » from last year >> from last year to this year. Yeah. Oh,

[3:02:52] okay. I'm talking about from 2023 when it was 82,000 and now we pay 165. That's

[3:02:58] not 7,000. That's 83,000. >> Went up in three years.

[3:03:05] » Uh my my question to to you that Seafood bags, you made the comment that it's in

[3:03:11] the contract but nowhere else. >> Okay. And that's a pet peeve of mine.

[3:03:15] It's either we keep that or we enforce it. You you can't have it both ways.

[3:03:20] » Yeah. >> So, what's the recommendation there?

[3:03:23] » Yeah. It's just it's it's part of the uh the initial agreement that was that

[3:03:28] lived over the last 12 years. Um but there's no bylaw. There's no policy.

[3:03:34] There's no that that says see-through bags, chew at the curb, you know, it's

[3:03:39] it's just whatever the contractor we we may have enforced it at some point, but

[3:03:44] I don't know what what we would have enforced.

[3:03:47] » Yeah. >> So So that's uh

[3:03:51] » I think that's separate from from the agreement. Um, I I think if we have a

[3:03:58] bylaw that says we have a clear bag policy, two bag limit, then we task the

[3:04:03] contractor to follow that policy and it doesn't necessarily have to go in the

[3:04:07] agreement. >> Okay. But then that's going to be part

[3:04:09] of the RFP, >> I would think. So, yeah.

[3:04:11] » Okay. Yeah. >> Okay.

[3:04:14] All right. Any other questions about Bigle?

[3:04:18] » Do we have any stats from prior years of the amount of volume like like the

[3:04:22] weighted things like I think if working for the

[3:04:25] self tender to get the most appropriate tender, they would have to be knowing

[3:04:30] the exact weight of what they're ging. >> Yeah. But um uh good good question. Uh

[3:04:38] there is there is no weight. There's no scales. Uh would just be a madeup

[3:04:41] number, right? >> Um for a lot of this agreement, glass

[3:04:45] was collected in the trash. Now it's not. Right. Um so it's uh uh going by

[3:04:53] population going by the amount of road traveled

[3:04:57] um will have to be you know by by the number of pickups by the frequency of

[3:05:01] pickups by the limit in which those pickups exist. Uh those would be the

[3:05:06] determining factor for the contractor to price up the agreement. Those would be

[3:05:10] consistent for everybody. >> Am I right in saying that weight

[3:05:16] weight is not the answer? It's volume. Does it matter how heavy it is? It's how

[3:05:21] much room it takes in the long >> field. Yeah, for sure. Or or on the

[3:05:25] track, right? Because it's we're talking about both collection. Um uh yeah.

[3:05:30] » Okay. >> Any other uh

[3:05:35] » maybe another comment for council to keep in mind. Um right now the

[3:05:42] neighboring municipalities Madawan Bon Cameron all have the same

[3:05:50] » contractors and uh perhaps there's a rate

[3:05:57] differential that it favors all three municipalities by having one contractor

[3:06:01] do all three which was one of the reasons we stuck with a current

[3:06:05] contractor three years ago. But the you know the amounts are getting

[3:06:11] bit how big they are double three years and

[3:06:16] so on. But I think the point that I'm making is we as part of this process, we

[3:06:21] should uh well, they'll know when we see the RFP go out or the RFQ, but we should

[3:06:26] let the other communities know that we intend on going to market because uh and

[3:06:33] good back them.

[3:06:38] » So, we're ready to need a mover and a seconder to accept the report.

[3:06:45] Second.

[3:06:55] » Okay. Moved by councelor Ross, second by councelor Bigalow. Be it resolved that

[3:07:00] council of the corporation of the town of Matawa receives report number 26-37R

[3:07:06] titled garbage collection. Questions, comments recorded.

[3:07:18] Recorded vote requested by councelor Levite. Any questions or comments? None.

[3:07:26] » V. >> No.

[3:07:28] » Councelor Ross. Yeah. >> Councelor Vic.

[3:07:32] » Yes. >> Councelor N.

[3:07:35] » Yes. >> Councelor Kar.

[3:07:37] » No. >> Councelor Gardner.

[3:07:41] » Yes. and Mayor Vaj. >> Yes.

[3:07:44] » Motion is carried with a recorded vote of 5 days and three days.

[3:07:49] » Okay, we need a mover and a seconder for the meat of the

[3:07:57] » No one wants to move it. >> Move what?

[3:08:01] » The RFP process. >> We only accepted the uh

[3:08:08] I'll second it. get a table

[3:08:15] please

[3:08:20] to vote. >> Okay. So, the motion is moved by

[3:08:25] councelor Gardner, seconded by Mayor Ben Alre. It resolved that council direct

[3:08:30] staff to initiate a competitive request for proposal RFP process exclusively for

[3:08:37] municipal garbage collection services as the current garbage collection services

[3:08:43] extension agreement with Paul Lafrenir contracting expires on December 31st

[3:08:49] 2026. Question uh recorded vote requested by

[3:08:55] councelor Levite. You have questions, comments?

[3:08:58] » Just my only comment is I'm judging by the last one, I'm kind of getting an

[3:09:04] indication that there might be some people against us, but I don't

[3:09:06] understand how because there's no opportunity for extension anymore. We've

[3:09:10] hit the limit of extensions on the contract. We have no contract. So, we

[3:09:16] have to negotiate a new contract. So, I guess the options are either go back to

[3:09:19] that person and come up with a new contract, which I think would go against

[3:09:23] a lot of our policies. And then, you know, we try to do the best for our tax

[3:09:27] dollars and stuff like that. And and the other option is to go out to tender, but

[3:09:31] there's no more extension option in our current contract. That's done. It's

[3:09:34] gone. We've exhausted them all. >> Any other comments?

[3:09:38] » I I comment that if there is no extension, then this this is a way to

[3:09:44] open it up. >> Any other comments? question.

[3:09:48] » I'm wondering if there's a >> if there's a possibility that we can

[3:09:53] extend the contract again through a through a motional counsel.

[3:10:00] » Sure. You can't just have to bring up going forward.

[3:10:03] » I'm just ask I'm going to reel everybody in. This has been tabled.

[3:10:09] » Okay. So, we we need to vote on it. >> But but you haven't read it though.

[3:10:14] » Oh, yeah. I did. >> Oh, you did?

[3:10:15] » I did. Yeah. You definitely

[3:10:21] » I don't I I don't know why I voted on the first one. I was voting for the

[3:10:26] whole the whole thing, not just

[3:10:29] » what can what can I do? >> Well, you voted for it. Anyway, so no

[3:10:36] further questions or comments?

[3:10:40] » No. >> Council Gartner. Yes.

[3:10:46] » Mayor. >> Yes.

[3:10:50] » Councelor Bigalow. >> Yes.

[3:10:53] » Councelor Tar. >> No.

[3:10:56] » Councelor Ross. >> No.

[3:11:00] » And councelor Ned. >> Yes.

[3:11:03] » Motion is carried with regarded vote of four yays and three nays.

[3:11:22] I missed them in the missing bylaw.

[3:11:30] » No problem.

[3:11:35] » Yeah, she's going to be up there. You don't mind?

[3:11:42] Yeah.

[3:11:50] » On the bottom. >> Okay.

[3:12:00] » Okay. So 10.1 is uh doesn't

[3:12:19] 10.1 is the bylaw. It's bylaw number 2616.

[3:12:28] Okay. And this one here is for um us entering a lame deck period.

[3:12:35] So it's uh whereas section 2753 of the municipal act

[3:12:42] uh chapter 25 restricts council from taking actions on the following in the

[3:12:47] in the lame duck period. Uh the appointment or removal from office of

[3:12:52] any officer municipality. The hiring or dismissal of any employees of the

[3:12:57] municipality, the disposition of any real or personal

[3:13:02] property of the municipality which has a value exceeding 50,000 at the time of

[3:13:07] disposal and making any expenditure or occurring any other liabilities which

[3:13:13] exceed $50,000. So therefore it's that uh uh

[3:13:21] uh that the council will enact the following that uh corporation town of

[3:13:27] man hereby delegates authority under section 2753 of the municipal act sold

[3:13:34] 2001 between nomination day and commencement of the council parents as

[3:13:40] follows. the CEO to be delegated authority as a financial

[3:13:46] signing authority for expenditures exceeding 50,000

[3:13:51] that the CEO be delegated the authority to execute agreements of purchase and

[3:13:56] sale pertaining to the disposition of any real or personal property of the

[3:14:02] municipality which has a value exceeding 50,000 at the time of disposal for

[3:14:08] acquisition of property the CEO delegated the authority to hire or

[3:14:13] dismiss any employee of the municipality of Madawa. Uh that the CEO will report

[3:14:20] to council at the next meeting as soon as practable on any actions taken under

[3:14:26] the restrictions listed under section 275.

[3:14:30] And uh that this bylaw shall come in enforced in effect only if the present

[3:14:36] council is subject to the lame duck provisions in accordance with section

[3:14:40] 2753 of the municipal act and shall not extend beyond the commencement at the

[3:14:46] next council term. I did this for the benefit of the viewing audience so they

[3:14:50] know what we're talking about. I need a mover and a seconder. This was discussed

[3:14:55] last meeting and was asked to be brought back. So I have a mover. I need a second

[3:15:00] there.

[3:15:03] Council Ross, sorry. So, the motion is moved by uh council

[3:15:10] may bear, seconded by council Ross. Be it resolved that council of the

[3:15:15] corporation of the town of Madawa adopt bylaw 26-16

[3:15:20] being a bylaw to authorize the chief administrative officer for certain acts

[3:15:25] during a restricted period. Questions, comments? Council Gar.

[3:15:30] » Yes. So I asked for this to come back. I I um have some I did some research on

[3:15:36] it. So the um part of the you just read it out. Uh part of the uh limitations

[3:15:42] that we face is the appointment or removal from office of any officer of

[3:15:46] the municipality. My argument to that is that um I don't think we need to remove

[3:15:50] any officers uh from the municipality currently. And if we did things like a

[3:15:55] clerk, we have a deputy clerk. If it was a fire chief, I would constitute that as

[3:16:00] an emergency. Or we have a deputy fire chief um bylaw or not bylaw, sorry, a

[3:16:05] building official. I think you could constitute that that could be an

[3:16:08] emergency. It doesn't tell you what it is emergency. Just says you have to deem

[3:16:12] it an emergency. So I think having that would be um considered an emergency.

[3:16:18] Hiring or dismissal of any employee. Uh currently already the CEO has that power

[3:16:22] with uh most of our staff within our own policies. um council would only oversee

[3:16:27] management. Um and again um giving that power to one person to to remove

[3:16:34] somebody as part of our management team I I don't think would happen. So um I

[3:16:39] would think that council would have to be involved in that anyways. Uh

[3:16:42] disposition of property over 50,000 I don't think there's anything on the

[3:16:46] horizon. If it was already approved by council um then it's already covered. um

[3:16:52] unbudgeted expenditures or liabilities exceeding 50,000. Uh we already have in

[3:16:57] our policies the CAO can go up to 50,000 I believe with emergencies.

[3:17:02] Um and then beyond that the act does include a provision for council be able

[3:17:07] to make those decisions in case of emergencies. So we had to spend over

[3:17:12] $50,000 and it's not budgeted this year. I would consider it's probably going to

[3:17:15] be an emergency. I don't think we're looking to do anything outrageous. Um,

[3:17:20] and and the reason I'm really pushing back to this is that the last term of

[3:17:24] council, there was a pickup truck and a loader bought during that term that

[3:17:29] council had to swallow those costs and those payments for and you're promised a

[3:17:34] financial report that we never got. We came in in December or or maybe it was

[3:17:39] late November, but around that time and come February, we still hadn't received

[3:17:45] any financial update as to what happened during that time. So, I'm really kind of

[3:17:49] digging in my heels here that I I really don't think we need to do this. Um, we

[3:17:53] all went against strong mayor's powers and it's kind of the same thing. It's

[3:17:57] strong CEO powers um to any CEO that gets it. So, I'm I'm digging in my heels

[3:18:02] there. And again, it's nothing to do with with Paul, but I didn't support it.

[3:18:06] The last council when they did it, I was very vocal about it and and I don't want

[3:18:11] to be a hypocrite, so I'm digging in on this one. So, that's my opinion. Um,

[3:18:17] counc

[3:18:21] is my biggest concern about CEO being dedicated authority to hire and dismiss

[3:18:27] any employee of the municipality, the corporation town of Nawa. And I don't

[3:18:34] think that that should happen. It should wait. you I can see them dismiss them

[3:18:40] from their work with uh pay and then when the new council comes in they can

[3:18:46] review it and see if it's uh uh the cause of uh or why the d the termination

[3:18:53] was put there. Uh other than that I'll go along with it but I want this removed

[3:19:01] or I won't be supporting it.

[3:19:08] No comments. >> No comments.

[3:19:15] My comment would be uh I already kind of said that I I believe like the main

[3:19:19] purpose of vice council here is to uphold all the services policies and

[3:19:24] procedures of staff that's going to do everything else. And that's basically

[3:19:28] what that is saying. So I'm okay with it.

[3:19:33] » Any comments? Councelor, I'm okay with something.

[3:19:37] » Okay. Any comments? Councelor Smith. >> Uh, no, thank you.

[3:19:43] » Okay. So recorded recorded vote requested by elsewhere.

[3:20:09] Pardon me. >> Oh nothing. Sorry

[3:20:12] » I did read it. Okay.

[3:20:15] » And there's no more comments. I've asked around.

[3:20:20] » No. >> Council,

[3:20:23] » yes. >> Councelor Ross,

[3:20:27] » no. >> Councelor Bigalow,

[3:20:31] » yes. >> Councelor Mick,

[3:20:34] » yes. >> Councelor Gardner,

[3:20:37] » no. >> And Mayor Bell,

[3:20:41] » yes. Motion is carried for the recorded vote

[3:20:44] of four days and three days.

[3:20:54] » Okay. So, uh I need a mover in a second to go into both meeting.

[3:21:00] » Oh, yeah. I got those. Hey, >> can we take Can we take a five minute

[3:21:04] break recess right now?

[3:21:10] has to go.

[3:21:18] » Sorry.

[3:21:22] Okay. So, moving on along. Uh item 11, old

[3:21:28] business 11.1, library proposal. Anything you want to

[3:21:34] brought forward, councelor Mick?

[3:21:43] I'll take that as a no.

[3:21:48] » Okay. New business 12.1 Council TER rental fees policy.

[3:21:54] » I'm sure we're all aware of what what this situation cost us and I think we

[3:21:58] need that policy ASAP. So,

[3:22:02] I mean, I had a a lot of phone calls about why I voted no.

[3:22:07] Then you have to explain it all, but which is okay. That's my job to explain

[3:22:11] why I voted in certainly, you think. But, um, but let's get the policy done

[3:22:17] so we don't have any questions here that here's a policy and this is it. So,

[3:22:23] anyway, >> so all I have to say,

[3:22:26] » can you explain this what the rent what do you mean by rental policy? The Egypt.

[3:22:33] » Oh, cave. Okay. I thought you were talking about the rose.

[3:22:39] » No, >> that's what I thought you were talking

[3:22:41] about. >> Okay. That's why I asked for I was going

[3:22:44] to say this guy already made presentation.

[3:22:47] » No. No. >> Okay. So,

[3:22:51] » yeah. I just We just need the policy. Let's get it get out of the way.

[3:22:58] Okay. Uh questions from the public pertain

[3:23:01] pertaining to the agenda. Not going to happen. There's no one here.

[3:23:05] » We we actually do. We have people still online.

[3:23:08] » Oh, okay. Sorry about that. >> Oh, yeah.

[3:23:12] » Good evening. >> I' I've have a question about my letter.

[3:23:19] » Oh, yeah. Go ahead.

[3:23:23] » Okay. It w it was commented that my letter is how you get attention to this

[3:23:29] issue. But the OD the AODDA requires the town to be accessible to people in

[3:23:35] wheelchairs. It's the responsibility of the town through consultation with

[3:23:41] people with disabilities to identify, prevent and remove barriers.

[3:23:47] Now a few years back an accessibility committee was going to be made. I put in

[3:23:53] an application to be on this committee to help identify these barriers and it

[3:23:58] was decided that it didn't need to to have one. I know it's not mandatory,

[3:24:04] but it is needed in this town and there are so many issues that you guys say

[3:24:11] you're not aware of, but you should be. And I think you need to move forward by

[3:24:17] getting an accessibility committee so that it can be dealt with. A lot of

[3:24:20] these things are small issues that can be dealt with with a little $100 fix. I

[3:24:27] know there's big things, but we're not looking to make big changes. We need the

[3:24:33] little things fixed first, like now, not in a year.

[3:24:38] I'm sorry. Thank you. >> Okay. Anybody want to council Gardner?

[3:24:44] » Yeah, I I agree. U Cheryl, I I think that a committee like that would be

[3:24:49] good. we have a kind of an armslength uh unification committee and I I think at

[3:24:54] the time the thinking was that it was going to be kind of a committee of

[3:24:57] council that I can't remember the exact structure but maybe it was the amount of

[3:25:01] council members that were going to be on it that was a bit of the issue because

[3:25:04] after so many council members then it has to follow our our council meetings

[3:25:09] and has to be posted to the public and recorded and all of those things have

[3:25:13] agendas. So maybe something that kind of involves more people from the public and

[3:25:17] a a counselor to be on there and to kind of that counselor be responsible for

[3:25:22] bringing the flow of information both ways from the council table back to the

[3:25:25] committee. Um I I would support that and I I think that there would be a number

[3:25:30] of uh of counselors that would be willing to uh to take that role, but um

[3:25:35] definitely I I agree um it's something that we need to do and we need to do

[3:25:39] better. Okay, council there.

[3:25:42] » Um, yeah, Cheryl, uh, thank you for your letter. Um, I know a few years back, uh,

[3:25:49] I was, uh, on a committee called, uh, Nawa Community Development, and we, uh,

[3:25:57] got a grant from the government to do a study on, uh, areas in the town that

[3:26:03] needed, uh, accessibility that has accessibility problems. And I think the

[3:26:09] the municipality does have a copy of that. We sent it to the municipality

[3:26:13] after we got it done. Um I think there was some things that were done, but you

[3:26:19] know, we're all we were all waiting for this accessibility to come from the

[3:26:23] government this these proposals. But anyway, there is a study that was done.

[3:26:29] We also uh I think it was that back in uh

[3:26:36] the Legion had got when I was president I had gotten a stud study done um to

[3:26:43] create accessible uh parking spaces on Main Street and uh I think that was done

[3:26:51] too but the town also did a study a few years back maybe two or three years. So

[3:26:57] we have those three studies that we could be looking at and and carrying out

[3:27:02] those recommendations that were provided. But anyway, the studies have

[3:27:06] been done and we did get grants for those for those studies. But anyway,

[3:27:13] we're waiting for our main street to be done. There is some accessibility that

[3:27:17] we provided in that on that in main street. So you'll see some really good

[3:27:24] uh improvements on our main street.

[3:27:29] else. >> Yeah, we the new construction that's

[3:27:34] coming hopefully within the next year. Uh accessibility is part of the plan for

[3:27:40] the main street. So I hope that it will meet your requirements and uh whatever

[3:27:45] it has to be a joint venture between the corporation, the contractor and the

[3:27:51] business people to make an effort to have proper accessibility for

[3:27:56] wheelchairs. That's all I can say for now and uh sorry that uh you're having a

[3:28:01] hard time with it and I hope we can resolve the problem for you as soon as

[3:28:05] we can.

[3:28:09] Any other comments? Councelor Ross. >> I shall I agree. I think an

[3:28:15] accessibility committee would be a very good idea

[3:28:18] because a lot of us do not know exactly what is needed. So, um I think possibly

[3:28:25] putting um some things together stating some of the things that we could do or

[3:28:31] suggestions you have or possibly talk to a few others and make a little

[3:28:35] presentation and see if some things are profitable so we don't have to wait

[3:28:39] until our main street starts. I think it's going to be starting fairly soon

[3:28:43] though. But it isn't just Main Street that has issues. There are other aspects

[3:28:47] in town as well. So, I think writing a few things down on paper and uh sending

[3:28:53] it to council or presenting it to council would be a great idea.

[3:28:58] » Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. I thought I could follow

[3:29:02] for you, Charlotte. Um I think this is great timing for you to bring this

[3:29:05] forward as well. Again, having a director of community services and also

[3:29:10] bringing up like the the committees. I think our our focus with the main street

[3:29:15] is also for the accessibilities. So, um, but I think the timing for all this is

[3:29:20] actually going to be a good thing and we're going to get more things done.

[3:29:23] It'll be a lot a lot quicker and again with the main street, I think it'll be a

[3:29:28] lot more obvious as to the to the things that the the director was saying of

[3:29:32] things that are in the back.

[3:29:37] » I was just going to ask the I've never heard of the study that was done before

[3:29:42] our council. It was before this term of council. So, if anybody has that

[3:29:45] document, can that be shared with council? So, I don't even know if staff

[3:29:48] would have it, but um can we try to find it and share it around with council? I'd

[3:29:52] like to read it. I I didn't know if its existence would be important.

[3:29:57] » I would be I'll uh put my two cents. Uh thank you

[3:30:04] for reaching out to council. Um we started in 2023.

[3:30:11] I don't remember anything about that committee coming to

[3:30:16] this table. So that must have been in the previous years that it was done. Um

[3:30:24] your letter was discussed at length and uh everybody had questions and uh we uh

[3:30:32] and I asked specifically for staff to answer your letter. So maybe it's a an

[3:30:37] opportunity to not let this dialogue uh die down. Let's keep it going.

[3:30:43] » And uh you know I I think anybody in their right mind wants to do what's

[3:30:48] right for our constituents. >> Uh

[3:30:52] our main street will get a complete uh >> new look by uh by the end of

[3:31:01] construction season next year. Uh the bridge is also being addressed right now

[3:31:06] as we speak. Uh we're still waiting to find out if it's going to be a

[3:31:11] rehabilitation or replacement. And uh some grants have been applied to

[3:31:18] and uh our director was talking about them, you know, for better accessible

[3:31:23] washroom facilities, town hall, the info center and the imprints of both

[3:31:28] buildings. So uh that that's one of the answers you were looking for. Has there

[3:31:34] been any application? Yes, there has. And we we were also successful in

[3:31:39] securing one at the arena for uh you know to to help uh uh residents age

[3:31:47] residents and everything, you know, to to use our facility at the arena and the

[3:31:52] proper equipment is going to be provided. So we we did get that. So

[3:31:56] that's something that's uh that's on our radar also. But uh you know h have a

[3:32:02] look at uh our staff's response and I encourage you to keep the dialogue

[3:32:06] going. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you.

[3:32:12] » Any other questions?

[3:32:23] » Okay. So, we are going to move into a close session. I need a move in a second

[3:32:28] to do so.

[3:32:43] » Okay. Moved by councelor Levite, seconded by councelor Ross. Speed

[3:32:46] resolve that council proceed in camera. uh close session pursuant to section

[3:32:53] 2392E of the Municipal Act 2001 as amended at

[3:32:58] 9:36 p.m. in order to address the following item number 14.2

[3:33:05] Mad Landfill update under litigation or potential litigation including matters

[3:33:11] before administrative tribunals affecting the municipality or local

[3:33:15] board. Questions, comments? Okay, I'm going to call for a vote.

[3:33:20] Councelor Mick. >> Yes.

[3:33:24] » And call all in favor.

[3:33:37] » Okay. Okay, I have a motion uh moved by councelor Levik, seconded by councelor

[3:33:42] Tair be resolved at the regular meeting reconvene at 9:52 p.m.

[3:33:48] Uh we went into a closed uh meeting to discuss the uh the manual landfill

[3:33:55] update concerning arbitration versus uh Pepo Cameron Township

[3:34:01] and uh there is a motion uh resulting from the closed meeting session and I'm

[3:34:08] looking for a mover and a secondary. >> Um sorry mayor but you actually need to

[3:34:12] vote on this or else you'll be first. >> We have to be sorry

[3:34:15] » that's okay >> late right?

[3:34:17] » Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, uh,

[3:34:21] call for a vote. All in favor?

[3:34:28] Do I have to restate what I said or is that done? Okay. Thank you.

[3:34:33] » All right. So, mover in a second was over here.

[3:34:43] Okay. Moved by councelor Ross, seconded by councelor Bigalow. Whereas the firm

[3:34:48] of Davis Washburn Law has indicated that they can no longer serve the town in the

[3:34:55] landfill litigation matter with the township of Pepano Cameron. Be it

[3:35:01] resolved that council of the town of Mawa authorized the CEO treasurer to

[3:35:07] retain the services of Spedaphori Johnson

[3:35:13] LLP to represent the town in this matter.

[3:35:17] questions, comments. [snorts] I'm going to request a recorded vote on

[3:35:24] this one.

[3:35:31] » No questions. >> Raj,

[3:35:35] » yes. >> Councelor Big,

[3:35:38] » yes. >> Councelor Ross,

[3:35:40] » yes. >> Councelor Cher,

[3:35:42] » yes. >> Councelor No,

[3:35:46] » yes. and councelor Garvin.

[3:35:48] » Yes. >> Motion is carried unanimously.

[3:35:55] » Okay. >> Okay. I mean that's

[3:36:05] okay. Moved by councelor Gardner, second by councelor Leavik be resolved at the

[3:36:10] regular meeting adjourned at 9:54 p.m. Questions, comments?

[3:36:17] All in favor? Carried. >> Thank you, gentlemen. and whies.

Video Recording of August 10, 2026 Regular Meeting

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