[0:18] and then Ross.

[0:21] >> Thank you.

[0:53] PowerPoint.

[0:55] >> I don't know if uh

[0:59] it doesn't work.

[1:01] No, I have to like log in.

[1:02] >> Sign in. Just sign into your account.

[1:04] >> Yes, it'll work. Put in your You want me

[1:07] to put in mine?

[1:08] >> Am I not

[1:22] a ton of raw?

[1:28] » Thank you for listening.

[1:35] You're going to have to do

[1:39] » Wait, what? Password.

[1:56] » Hi everyone.

[2:00] Wait a few minutes.

[2:04] » Yes.

[2:28] You want to try your just be Zach?

[2:31] >> Yeah.

[2:32] >> Damn.

[2:48] Uh Zoom and undo the video. Is it

[2:52] Well, give us a second.

[2:54] >> Our power point isn't working.

[2:57] >> Okay.

[2:59] >> Well, that's just because of us. It's

[3:01] >> It's not you guys.

[3:02] >> Okay.

[3:05] >> So, you're on you're in the meeting, but

[3:07] you don't see anything.

[3:09] >> Doesn't work.

[3:14] » Okay. So, you're going to have to PDF

[3:16] it.

[3:17] >> You're going to have to turn those into

[3:19] PDFs.

[3:20] >> Okay. Can I do that? Or what do you

[3:21] need, Mary?

[3:23] >> Or I can do this while you do that.

[3:26] >> Do

[3:27] >> um Can you put the video on?

[3:33] » Okay. Now, do you see

[3:38] » I can do this.

[3:39] >> Do the

[3:43] power.

[3:47] » Oh, that's right. I'll be right back.

[3:49] >> You're not going to be able to open

[4:21] He said,

[4:24] "Huh?

[4:35] But do participants do participants

[4:39] >> is there count? Yeah. Can you activate

[4:41] the video? Is the video on?

[4:43] >> Yes. Yeah, the video is on and council.

[4:50] » They're just getting black on.

[4:54] » Oh. Um,

[4:56] there now. Do you see this?

[5:01] » Okay. So, you see it. So, You need to

[5:03] get rid of Alex. You get rid of Alex

[5:07] has do the participants again

[5:09] >> so that there's not a double screen up

[5:12] there.

[5:15] add the back.

[5:19] » Otherwise, you'll see us.

[5:43] How long does he get

[5:48] any

[6:01] Stephen, we're going to start.

[6:05] >> Um, we have we um we have we're having a

[6:08] little bit of technical difficulty. So,

[6:09] we have

[6:12] >> Do you have the PDF?

[6:13] >> Yeah.

[6:14] >> I don't know if this is going to

[6:15] connect.

[6:16] >> Okay.

[6:18] >> No,

[6:23] you're just gonna have to do it or right

[6:26] click it and then try to open it.

[6:28] >> But I'm not in the right. Will he let me

[6:29] into the right?

[6:32] >> I was just going to open all of them

[6:33] real quick.

[6:34] >> No, I know. But instead of opening it

[6:36] online

[6:44] » and then

[6:49] » Yeah, me too.

[6:55] » So, do you want that video? All Scott is

[6:59] seeing is Alice. He's not seeing the

[7:00] council.

[7:02] >> So I don't know what why.

[7:12] » Can you see the participant go to

[7:13] participants and raise Scott to a

[7:15] panelist?

[7:18] >> Oh wait, you know what? Is the Zoom on?

[7:20] >> I don't know. I'm

[7:25] go to where the participants

[7:28] I already have.

[7:30] >> Okay. And then Scott, is Scott board

[7:32] raise him to a panelist?

[7:35] >> Okay, you're there.

[7:37] >> Yes.

[7:40] » So, we need to get rid of your video,

[7:43] but we need to see the council. Take

[7:46] that off. You can turn that off. It's

[7:47] just that they're not seeing that now.

[7:50] You see council chamber.

[7:52] >> Oh, good.

[7:55] >> Okay. Mute the council chambers left. Uh

[7:59] mute mute this.

[8:02] >> Yeah.

[20:58] Mary, the second one isn't coming up.

[20:59] Only the first one.

[21:16] Yes, now I see you.

[21:21] » Okay, so we're good.

[21:24] >> All right.

[21:36] Good evening and welcome to

[21:38] our ADR meeting.

[21:40] >> I have it on.

[21:41] >> Did Can you hear me?

[21:43] >> Okay.

[21:45] >> Uh, welcome to our ADR meeting. It's

[21:47] This is our call to order and uh we will

[21:51] introduce ourselves. I'm Joey

[21:52] Buckingham.

[21:55] » Hi, Laura Der.

[21:57] >> And Mark Fritz. Thanks for coming

[22:00] tonight everybody. Uh we now have an

[22:03] open time for public comments.

[22:06] Three minutes per speaker. Who's up?

[22:11] >> No. Joey,

[22:12] >> anyone out there. Okay. The next thing

[22:15] is approval of minutes from our last uh

[22:18] meeting on March 17th and I move to

[22:21] approve them.

[22:23] >> I can second that.

[22:26] >> Okay. So approved. We'll go to our first

[22:29] project which is 101 Upper Road and we

[22:32] will uh hear from

[22:36] Roberta or from Alex regarding this

[22:40] project.

[22:45] » Okay. Good evening ADR members. Uh

[22:48] tonight the applicant at 101 Upper Road

[22:50] is uh request a recommendation to the

[22:52] town council for design review a

[22:54] hillside law permit and a variance.

[22:58] forgot that this is not a powerpoint.

[23:00] So this is the existing site here.

[23:07] Okay, so the applicant is proposing to

[23:09] construct new landscape improvements in

[23:11] a northern portion of the property.

[23:13] Proposed features include a pool and

[23:15] spa, pool equipment, a patio, fire pit,

[23:18] outdoor kitchen, retaining walls over

[23:20] six feet in height, and an outdoor

[23:22] shower.

[23:24] This is a closer Oh.

[23:27] a closer up of the project. In addition,

[23:30] the project also includes installation

[23:31] of a new 6ft tall grape stake fence

[23:33] along the existing driveway. The

[23:36] variance is required to allow the

[23:38] proposed improvements within the side

[23:40] and rear yard setbacks and to construct

[23:42] retaining walls over 6 ft in height.

[23:46] And then staff request that the ADR

[23:48] group discuss the merits of the project

[23:50] and propose a recommendation to the town

[23:52] council. Thank you.

[23:55] Thanks, Alex. Uh, would the applicant or

[23:57] their designer like to propose the

[24:00] project? Describe it.

[24:19] » Hello.

[24:20] >> Uh, thanks for having us. I'm Lexi

[24:22] Verif. um the owner. Um this first off,

[24:26] thank you guys uh for all the time you

[24:28] guys uh spend on ADR. We really

[24:30] appreciate it. Uh this is a resubmitt of

[24:33] a project that we had approved through

[24:35] town council with a building permit in

[24:37] 2023. Um uh there's no real changes

[24:42] except for the roof uh has gone from a

[24:44] living roof to a crushed uh gravel roof.

[24:49] Um so appreciate your consideration.

[25:01] Hi everybody, Brad XT Imprint Landscape

[25:04] Architecture. Uh, as Alexi said, we had

[25:07] this project approved in 2023 all the

[25:10] way through ADR and to town council and

[25:12] for a building permit and um some things

[25:15] happened during COVID and we had to put

[25:17] the project on hold and so all of our

[25:20] approval processes became void and we

[25:23] started over. So leading up to this plan

[25:27] that you see here, we had made a couple,

[25:30] you know, significant changes with

[25:32] neighbor input regarding bulk and mass

[25:35] and reducing the patio that was in front

[25:38] of the building. And we changed the

[25:40] building configuration to reduce patios

[25:44] that jutted out towards the road. And so

[25:47] we did go through some significant um

[25:51] design changes at the time. And um the

[25:55] last ADR we we received approval from

[25:59] the members. I don't I think Mark was

[26:00] here. I don't remember if Joey you were

[26:02] here too. I believe

[26:04] >> I was the first round but I was sick the

[26:07] second round.

[26:08] >> Okay.

[26:08] >> But I think we have a notes.

[26:10] >> And Laura, I don't remember if you were

[26:12] here or not.

[26:14] >> I I was. Yeah.

[26:15] >> You were. Okay. Um, so we got the ADR

[26:19] approval and we got town council

[26:20] approval and we took these drawings all

[26:24] the way through building permit and all

[26:26] we had to do was pay the permit fees and then the project just some things

[26:33] happened COVID life upended and so the

[26:37] project got put on hold. So, um, last

[26:41] year I was contacted to bring the

[26:43] project back and we start first started

[26:46] with going to take the ADU out, try to

[26:49] save some money and just do a bathroom

[26:51] up in this location and that proved to

[26:53] be overly complicated because the

[26:57] bathroom didn't meet setbacks and there

[26:59] was a lot of back and forth with that.

[27:01] So we just decided with staff

[27:04] recommendations as well and trying to

[27:06] work out the financial aspect of it just

[27:09] to submit the exact same project that we

[27:11] had submitted before. So we submitted it

[27:15] and it went back to fire and in that

[27:17] time fire said we couldn't put a living

[27:19] roof on anymore. So the code had

[27:22] changed. So now the roof is a gravel

[27:26] roof which is unfortunate but there's

[27:29] nothing I can do about it. So, the goal

[27:32] was always to have this really tuck into

[27:34] the hillside and not be visible from any

[27:36] other property. Um,

[27:39] I think that's it for me. I'm I'm happy

[27:41] to answer any questions that you might

[27:42] have uh moving forward.

[27:48] » So, is the ad the ADU is just maybe a

[27:52] down the line thing?

[27:53] >> No, the ADU is happening for this

[27:55] project.

[27:56] >> Okay.

[27:56] >> Um, no, it's the project is unchanged.

[27:59] >> Okay. Yeah.

[28:02] >> Is the does it exactly match the

[28:05] rendering? There was some question about

[28:07] a deep overhang on the rendering. Yeah.

[28:10] >> It doesn't appear on the plans.

[28:12] >> Yeah, we we had the rendering adjusted

[28:15] today. Um

[28:18] the bulk the majority of that rendering

[28:20] was to show the fence because there was

[28:22] an initial fence proposed that was kind

[28:24] of heavy and really felt too um

[28:29] too too visible from the road. So we

[28:32] changed that fence to a really

[28:33] transparent wire type of a fence with

[28:36] planting around it. And somehow the the

[28:39] roof overhang didn't get picked up in

[28:41] that rendering change. But all the

[28:44] changes that are correct are on the

[28:46] drawings. So that rendering, yeah, we

[28:49] got it updated today in case you wanted

[28:51] to see it, but that roofer overhang is

[28:53] gone.

[28:55] I actually have a question about the

[28:57] removal of the green roof that obviously

[28:59] was forced on you, but

[29:02] >> that was a pretty attractive thing for

[29:04] the people above you to look down on.

[29:06] Yeah.

[29:06] >> And so now are they looking down on

[29:08] white gravel or what is this going to

[29:11] look like? because maybe a pitched roof

[29:14] would be more attractive there.

[29:16] >> Well, the building's so tucked into the

[29:17] hillside that the the hillside's going

[29:19] to kind of come down over part of it.

[29:21] And there's, if you look on the

[29:22] rendering, that's their driveway above

[29:25] >> that cuts over like that's the property

[29:27] line of 101 upper, cutting through the

[29:30] middle of their driveway, and their

[29:33] house is way far away from that. And

[29:35] there's oak trees and there's a hedge.

[29:36] See the hedge along the driveway?

[29:39] This cannot be seen from anywhere. That

[29:41] living roof was really a more of a

[29:44] feature for the pool area. Like you'd

[29:47] see the grasses up on top of the roof

[29:48] and the roof would feel like the

[29:50] building's like really like tucked into

[29:53] the hill.

[29:54] >> Got it. How about do you have

[29:56] >> I was just going to clarify something.

[29:58] We don't really have any purview for

[29:59] this ADU though, right?

[30:01] >> Like we have no I mean we don't

[30:03] >> has a living roof or slanted roof. We

[30:05] really don't.

[30:07] >> Yeah, exactly. But that was that was our

[30:09] only comment on our resubmitt.

[30:11] >> So there's there's actually zero change

[30:13] to the part that the ADR has any

[30:16] >> that's what I was

[30:17] >> zero anything to mention.

[30:19] >> One one other question and this is

[30:21] actually

[30:22] >> it is attached to the the

[30:25] >> ADU but this there's a staircase that

[30:27] dumps down onto the driveway like a

[30:30] spiral staircase. Is that still there?

[30:32] And was that there before? That was

[30:34] there before and that's just like timber

[30:36] steps into the hillside and that's

[30:38] there's an entrance to the house that's

[30:40] staying but the fire department wanted a

[30:42] secondary access. Got it.

[30:44] >> And they said it could just be like put

[30:46] railroad ties into the hill and so they

[30:49] could drag a hose up

[30:51] >> from a fire truck.

[30:52] >> It was it's not meant to be a functional

[30:56] access to this space. We're going to try

[30:57] to hide it as much as anything.

[31:00] >> Okay, great.

[31:01] >> Yeah. There won't be an address to it or

[31:02] anything like that.

[31:04] >> Okay. Thank you.

[31:05] >> Yeah.

[31:05] >> Does anyone have any other questions of

[31:08] Brad?

[31:10] >> Does anyone in the audience have any

[31:12] comments or online? Yes.

[31:25] » Um I'm curious. I live um down I I live

[31:28] on um Sierra Circle which is there and

[31:32] there are a lot of it's down below Toyon

[31:35] Drive and so my my question is um were there and I don't and I've never

[31:43] had done something like this so I don't

[31:45] know if I'm out of line with my question

[31:46] so excuse me if I am but um was were

[31:50] there any studies done excuse me

[31:52] >> um as to the

[31:53] >> Is this for 101 upper

[31:55] >> it's for 101 one and and 313. Yeah.

[31:59] >> Because they're both doing extensions.

[32:01] And so my concern is the stability of

[32:03] the hillside because there have been

[32:06] slides coming down that have come down

[32:08] that hillside before. I mean pretty bad

[32:13] >> on onto Sierra Circle. Um and so I'm

[32:18] just concerned about the and there's a

[32:20] lot of um underground water in the

[32:23] winter time there streams um even during

[32:27] like now there's there's water that

[32:29] comes down.

[32:30] >> Are you referring to 313 upper toyon

[32:33] >> both?

[32:33] >> Okay. Okay. I get it. I get it. Just

[32:36] it's a general commentary on drainage

[32:38] and

[32:38] >> right. Yeah. I just well and I just want

[32:40] to make sure that the stability for the place houses below have been taken

[32:45] into consideration on you know extensive

[32:49] buildouts up above

[32:50] >> the ADR this design review that we run

[32:55] on these nights is really more about the

[32:57] design and if it meets the criteria of

[32:59] the town's code any project that would

[33:03] be approved by the town and go through

[33:06] building planning

[33:08] >> they have to submit all sorts of soil

[33:11] soils engineers, structural engineers,

[33:13] civil engineers, drainage, you know,

[33:16] they are very well vetted before they

[33:19] can build something like this.

[33:20] >> And they take into consideration.

[33:22] >> Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay.

[33:23] >> Yes. It's it's pretty hard to get the

[33:26] permit to build such a thing.

[33:28] >> Okay.

[33:28] >> Because a lot of agencies and

[33:30] consultants are required.

[33:32] >> Okay.

[33:32] >> But our job here tonight is much more of

[33:35] a design.

[33:36] >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. But thank you for

[33:38] coming.

[33:39] >> My question. It's good to

[33:40] >> No, thank you for coming. It's a valid

[33:42] worry.

[33:43] >> Thank you.

[33:47] » Yes.

[33:51] » So to your question, um uh we did have a

[33:54] full uh structural engineer and mockup

[33:57] and when we went through approval uh

[33:59] previously, uh we've submitted all that.

[34:02] Um and so yes, we've gone through all

[34:04] the necessary steps even though it's not

[34:06] at this stage. Uh we did it previously.

[34:10] >> Thanks.

[34:12] >> So I'm going to bring it back to ADR if

[34:15] we have any questions or if we are ready

[34:18] to make our commentary.

[34:20] >> No questions for me.

[34:21] >> Any questions? Do you want to start?

[34:25] >> Um sure. I I think based on the fact

[34:28] that the project hasn't changed from

[34:31] when we approved it before, I feel

[34:33] comfortable going ahead and approving it

[34:36] again. Thanks.

[34:38] >> Yeah, same here. No additional comments.

[34:40] Still a good project. Hope you're able

[34:42] to build it.

[34:43] >> Same three.

[34:46] >> Okay, good luck.

[34:52] The next project is 313 Upper Toyan

[34:57] and Alex or Robera, would you guys like

[34:59] to

[35:01] >> Yeah. Yeah. Good evening. Uh ADR members

[35:03] to us.

[35:04] >> Tonight, the applicant at 313 upper

[35:05] Toyan is requesting a recommendation to

[35:08] the town council for design review and a

[35:09] hillside lot permit. The project is

[35:12] proposing I'll give you a sec. All

[35:14] right. This is the existing site right

[35:16] now and the um they're proposing to

[35:19] build a new swimming pool where the

[35:22] existing lawn is at. You can here is the

[35:28] let me zoom in.

[35:31] Okay. Uh this indoor this new outdoor

[35:34] pool will replace the indoor pool and

[35:36] the project will also include

[35:37] approximately 280 ft of new heartscape

[35:40] between the main residence and the

[35:42] proposed pool. Uh, the pool equipment

[35:44] will be located beneath a future parking

[35:46] pad approved back in 2025 and staff

[35:50] request that the EDR group provide a

[35:52] recommendation to the town council.

[35:53] Thank you.

[35:56] >> Thanks, Alex. Is there a applicant here?

[35:59] Architect,

[36:01] designer.

[36:06] » Good afternoon. Uh, Bob Dwire, Element

[36:09] Outdoor Pool Construction. It's a pretty

[36:12] simple project. There's an existing pool

[36:14] that was removed. We're moving the pool

[36:16] to the outside. It is all supported on

[36:18] peers, so there's no influence on the

[36:21] wall itself. We won't introduce any

[36:23] additional water to the soils,

[36:25] obviously, because the pool's designed

[36:26] not to leak. So, I'm not sure any other

[36:30] input I could have for you, but uh

[36:34] rather simple, I think.

[36:36] >> Thank you. Do you have any questions,

[36:39] Adr of

[36:41] Gentlemen,

[36:42] >> could could you guys pull up the section

[36:45] that shows the pool equipment?

[36:48] >> Um,

[36:50] do you have that on there, Alex?

[36:52] >> Yeah. Give me a sec.

[36:54] >> It's going to be down below the wall.

[36:56] Okay. So, the pool will be up top and

[36:58] the equipment will be lower than the pool.

[37:01] >> It is it enclosed?

[37:04] >> No, it's an open. It's the existing

[37:06] equipment is open now and this would be

[37:08] open also. Oh, so that's where the

[37:10] equipment for the indoor pool is.

[37:12] >> Yeah, there's an existing equipment

[37:13] location for the indoor pool. Now, I'm

[37:15] not sure if that moved because of a

[37:17] setback, but it would be behind the same

[37:19] wall.

[37:22] >> My understanding is that the pool

[37:23] equipment is going under the previously

[37:25] approved.

[37:26] >> I don't I don't know anything about the

[37:28] deck or the the carport.

[37:32] >> The pool equipment is going Remember

[37:34] this is the project that has the parking

[37:36] deck that we approved. They're tucking

[37:38] the pool equipment under that,

[37:40] >> right?

[37:41] >> That's what I thought. And then is it

[37:42] >> I understood from the presentation.

[37:44] >> And then is that in an enclosed?

[37:46] >> It's not. I mean,

[37:48] >> no, there's no fencing around it or

[37:50] anything like that. It's an open pad

[37:52] with there's air conditioning there.

[37:53] There's all different equipment

[37:56] >> existing.

[37:57] >> Okay.

[37:57] >> The parking pad. Oh, my mouse is kind of

[38:00] >> Do you have that, Alex? Do you have that

[38:02] in the in the drawings? Is the parking

[38:03] pad there?

[38:04] >> It it it's going to be here, but it it's

[38:06] not showing on the drawings, but it's

[38:08] going to be like this is where the

[38:10] parking pad is going to be. And this is

[38:12] where the pool equipment

[38:14] is going to be located. And this is the

[38:17] elevation of the pool equipment down

[38:20] there.

[38:20] >> Okay. Thank you.

[38:22] >> But this is where ex Yeah, this is where

[38:23] the pool equipment I mean the parking

[38:25] pad's going to be.

[38:26] >> Okay. Thank you.

[38:29] >> I don't have any further questions. You

[38:30] guys have any further questions?

[38:31] >> You have any further questions?

[38:34] Um,

[38:35] I guess not. Are there any public

[38:38] comments on this project?

[38:41] >> Thank you, sir.

[38:42] >> Oh, you're welcome.

[38:43] >> There's no one online.

[38:55] » No, no, no one online.

[38:58] >> Okay, back to us for discussion.

[39:05] I'll go first. Yeah, go ahead. I don't

[39:06] have any problem with the project, the

[39:08] pool, where it's it's being moved from

[39:10] inside to outside. It seems like a

[39:12] perfect place for it. I do have a

[39:14] problem with the uh pool equipment not

[39:17] being better screened or covered just

[39:21] from a track, you know, just from a

[39:23] aesthetic point of view and a noise

[39:26] point of view. I think it can be

[39:28] enclosed in some kind of a noise proof

[39:31] uh enclosure. We basically make

[39:33] everybody else do that. It's

[39:36] >> you enclosed building

[39:38] >> and it there there's all sorts of pool

[39:40] pardon me pool equipment enclosures that

[39:44] meet the decibel requirement for

[39:49] there. We use them all the time in these

[39:51] various projects, but basically enclose

[39:53] it so it's soundproof

[39:56] and people don't see it also.

[39:59] >> Yeah, I don't know where anybody would

[40:01] see this.

[40:05] » I'm not sure where anybody would see

[40:06] this equipment, but as far as

[40:08] soundproofing it, um, we've done sound

[40:12] walls around it, screening, but, uh, if

[40:15] we start putting a roof on it, then we

[40:17] have to vent the heater. Um,

[40:20] but we'd al definitely entertain looking

[40:23] at, you know, limiting the sound.

[40:26] >> What do you, that's basically our

[40:28] requirement.

[40:29] >> Yeah, I think I think it's location

[40:31] based on the the topography. It's

[40:33] sitting up above, you know, projecting

[40:35] down the canyon. I would think that

[40:37] there should be some soundation around

[40:39] the pool. We we generally

[40:42] >> apply that rule across the board. Um,

[40:44] regardless of how close it is to a

[40:46] proper line. When it's closer to a

[40:47] proper line, we like to to really be

[40:48] enclosed with a roof and whatnot.

[40:50] >> I think in this particular case, I could

[40:52] see recommending

[40:54] >> surrounding it on three sides because

[40:55] the back side is already the the

[40:57] retaining wall,

[40:58] >> right?

[40:58] >> So, I could see something that's sound

[41:00] uh mitigating this so it doesn't project

[41:02] down the canyon. Um that would be

[41:05] something I'd recom I strongly

[41:07] recommend.

[41:07] >> And you have u parameters for that for

[41:11] us to look at to establish a design for

[41:14] that. We do have some decibel parameters

[41:16] that uh are in our in our you guys can

[41:19] share those.

[41:20] >> Yes, we also have Alex online. Uh can

[41:22] you hear us?

[41:23] >> Yes. Can you hear me? Okay.

[41:25] >> Yeah.

[41:26] >> Okay, great. Um thank you all for

[41:28] reviewing this. I am the owner of the

[41:31] property. I have just a few sick kids at

[41:33] home, so I wasn't able to attend today.

[41:35] Um, so I did want to clarify that with

[41:38] the parking deck that you guys approved

[41:40] for us, there was a design to have

[41:44] screening done where the equipment was

[41:46] for aesthetic purposes for the neighbor

[41:50] as well as for sound purposes. And so we

[41:52] will be uh carrying through that. The

[41:56] pool equipment where it sits currently

[41:59] um is in the setback um which is where

[42:02] it was existing uh when the home was

[42:04] built I believe. And so we will be

[42:07] moving it to the left side of where the

[42:09] generator is um further from the

[42:12] neighbor uh so that it is not in the

[42:15] setback anymore and closer to where the

[42:17] pool is. And so the screening should uh

[42:21] follow the concrete pad essentially that

[42:25] is at the lower part of the retaining

[42:27] wall and um should include this along

[42:30] with the uh the AC condenser units and

[42:33] the um the generator that's there.

[42:38] >> Perfect. I appreciate that

[42:40] clarification.

[42:41] >> Sure. Not a problem.

[42:42] >> Yeah, that's great.

[42:43] >> Yeah.

[42:44] >> Okay. Uh I my comments are really the

[42:47] same as

[42:49] um Mark and Joey. So the main concern is

[42:52] just the noise from that equipment

[42:54] because it is you know sound travels

[42:58] down and um the neighbor's house is also

[43:02] kind of right there. So if that's

[43:04] addressed I think the location of the

[43:05] pool looks great. So thanks. So just to

[43:10] wrap it up, we move to approve 30 pool

[43:13] location's fine, equipment location is

[43:16] fine, but please provide sound

[43:18] attenuation

[43:20] on basically three sides and then the

[43:23] fourth side is the retaining wall.

[43:24] >> Yep, sounds right.

[43:26] >> Thank you.

[43:26] >> Oh, thank you.

[43:34] » Just in time. Next project is 111

[43:38] Bolinus Avenue. And Alex, could you

[43:42] >> uh Good evening. Uh the applicant at 111

[43:44] Bolinas Avenue is requesting a

[43:46] recommendation to the count council for

[43:49] uh design review, an ADU permit, and a

[43:51] non-conformity permit.

[43:54] Okay. So, this is the existing site

[43:57] plan. Um

[44:00] you can see here and this is the

[44:01] proposed site plan with the additions.

[44:04] Uh the project proposes to convert the

[44:06] existing 492T cottage into a detach ADU

[44:10] and transfer 338 square feet of floor

[44:13] area to the existing residence. The

[44:16] scope of work includes an interior

[44:17] remodel with additions no changes to the

[44:20] exterior materials. The project also

[44:22] proposes to expand the rear deck to

[44:24] align with the addition seen here.

[44:28] A non-conformity permit is required to

[44:30] allow extending the house which is

[44:31] currently non-conforming with respect to

[44:33] the setbacks. An ADU permit is required

[44:36] to allow the existing cottage to be

[44:38] converted to a new ADU and transfer

[44:41] square footage to the primary residence.

[44:44] And staff request that the ADR group

[44:47] discuss the merits of the project and

[44:48] provide a formal recommendation to the

[44:50] town council. And these are some of the

[44:52] elev elevations of the uh proposed

[44:55] additions.

[44:57] East elevation, north elevation,

[45:00] west elevation, south elevation, uh the

[45:03] deck expansion here. That's it.

[45:08] >> Thanks, Alex. And would the applicant

[45:09] like to uh present?

[45:11] >> Yeah, I believe the applicants online.

[45:14] Let me um

[45:15] >> No, it's actually they're right they're

[45:17] right here behind.

[45:18] >> Sorry.

[45:19] >> Yes. Yes. Thanks.

[45:26] hear me? Yep. Good. Hi, I'm Dave Jookum,

[45:29] the architect, and I just want to

[45:31] clarify a couple things. Uh, it's

[45:33] partially my fault. It is my fault. Uh,

[45:36] the the square footage of the ADU is or

[45:40] cottage now turned into an ADU is

[45:42] actually 421.

[45:44] And the amount of square footage we're

[45:46] transferring is 208. and that shows on

[45:50] uh the first page, the cover page with

[45:52] the uh project data. That is all

[45:54] accurate. What's inaccurate is is the

[45:57] little uh project description down at

[45:59] the bottom corner of that page, but it's

[46:02] that it's all accurate.

[46:04] And so I uh just a couple of things to

[46:08] clarify. Uh the reason that the uh the

[46:12] two additions, not the front one, but

[46:14] the two rear editions at the back um are

[46:19] non-conforming is because like every

[46:22] project on that or every house on that

[46:24] street, it they were built before the

[46:26] current zoning. So, um we've got 5'4 on

[46:30] one side, 8 feet on the other side. And

[46:33] um if if we were if the house were

[46:37] actually built in the um within all the

[46:40] setbacks, it would be 30 ft wide, 90 ft

[46:44] long. Um which we'd have to build 30 ft

[46:48] wide, 80 ft long just to get the square

[46:50] footage in there that we were talking

[46:52] about. So that's basically a San

[46:54] Francisco rowhouse, you know, which is

[46:56] usually 25 ft wide and that would be 30

[46:59] ft wide. So, we're we're like all the

[47:02] other houses on the uh on the block, and

[47:05] we're just filling out little mouse

[47:06] bites that are in the in the house.

[47:10] Um, and then the other thing that I

[47:12] wanted to clarify was about the deck

[47:14] extension on the back. It's basically

[47:16] just a a deep uh landing outside the

[47:19] doors. It's 5t deep um and it's um um a

[47:25] foot off the ground. So it's it's not a

[47:27] gargantuan duck that's looking over

[47:29] neighbors or anything like that. So

[47:30] that's all it is.

[47:31] >> Hold on just a sec. Could you put the

[47:33] plans back? I love looking at Dave, but

[47:35] I would like to see the plans on the

[47:36] screen.

[47:37] >> Yeah,

[47:38] >> it we just had had them up for a sec.

[47:41] >> Uh do you want the elevations or the

[47:43] >> just we can wherever what you're

[47:45] whatever you're talking about. It would

[47:47] be nice to see it on the screen.

[47:49] >> Yeah, but it's not working.

[47:53] » I can use my mouse. That's I can I can

[47:56] go point. It's not working.

[47:58] >> No.

[48:01] >> Yeah.

[48:04] » See it?

[48:05] >> We're We're having techn technological

[48:08] difficulties in this room tonight.

[48:16] » So, the little mouse bites we're filling

[48:18] in is this one and this one. This deck

[48:22] goes along and wraps into where that

[48:26] this extension is now.

[48:29] So, we're replacing that deck with with

[48:33] a new building to fill out that mouse

[48:35] bite. And then this deck is just

[48:38] extending over to the edge. And that's

[48:41] basically just a a 5-ft landing a foot

[48:44] off the ground to get you down to the

[48:46] backyard. Um, that's all it is. And this

[48:49] just fills out this little corner. Uh

[48:52] making that that's that is the existing

[48:55] master bath. And so we're, you know,

[48:59] adding 40% area to the master bath.

[49:03] >> Okay. Thank you. Do any of you have any

[49:06] questions of Dave or the

[49:09] >> No.

[49:10] >> Robera or Alex? Is there anyone in the

[49:13] audience who has any questions or

[49:15] online?

[49:17] Uh, and there's no one online.

[49:19] >> Okay, we'll bring it back to the ADR.

[49:23] Uh, who wants to go first with this one?

[49:27] >> Um, I can go first. I I think that the

[49:31] project looks like a nice project. Um,

[49:33] appreciate the, you know, small scale of

[49:36] the renovation materials that match

[49:40] existing. Um,

[49:42] and the

[49:45] change from the square footage to turn

[49:48] the shed in the back or the little guest

[49:51] room in the back to a ADU.

[49:54] I mean, that's all Roberta, that's all

[49:58] correct, right? Like, we don't have to

[50:00] Okay. Um,

[50:03] and I mean I think the main thing is the

[50:06] deck, but it's 12 in off the ground, so

[50:09] it's not like it's 3 ft out looking into

[50:12] the neighbor's backyard. So because of

[50:14] that, I could see the exception for that

[50:18] um to get a variance.

[50:21] Um,

[50:24] yeah. And the one the one thing

[50:27] that in elevation from the uh east side

[50:31] I didn't love was the roof line of the

[50:33] new addition at the rear, but no one's

[50:36] ever going to really see that, I don't

[50:38] think. Um it's really well screened

[50:40] between the neighbors and so um I'm okay

[50:45] with it as designed.

[50:47] Thanks.

[50:49] >> I'll go next. I have no problem with the

[50:51] design. I think it's a really good use

[50:54] of the extra square footage that they

[50:56] gained from the ADU conversion. And I

[51:00] the findings I would make are that on

[51:03] that street, I mean, if they were to put

[51:05] that extra square footage anywhere else

[51:07] in the house, it would either be in the

[51:10] front of the house, in the middle, or in

[51:12] the back, in the middle. there's kind of

[51:14] that it's in the logical place and it

[51:17] doesn't really I mean we talk a lot

[51:20] about exacerbating a nonconformity but

[51:22] everything on that street is

[51:23] non-conforming and pretty much anywhere

[51:25] you put that square footage is

[51:26] non-conforming so bottom line I can

[51:29] support it as drawn

[51:33] » yeah 100% I don't have any additional

[51:35] comments it's perfectly in keeping with

[51:37] the types of houses that are along

[51:38] bolinus and I think that deck uh to the

[51:41] earlier points

[51:43] barely will register um because it's so

[51:46] close to the ground. I don't think it's

[51:47] an impediment to the neighbors in any

[51:49] way, shape, or form. So, I could support

[51:50] that variance. Yeah.

[51:52] >> Great. So, 30 approved. Thanks.

[52:00] » Okay, we have one last one. Can everyone

[52:03] hear me? We have three Willow Hill Road.

[52:07] And Alex, take it away.

[52:09] >> Yeah. The uh the applicant at three

[52:11] Willowhood Road is requesting a

[52:12] recommendation to the town council for

[52:14] design review, non-conformity permit, a

[52:16] hillside lot permit, and a variance. So,

[52:19] this is the existing site here.

[52:24] And they are proposing an interior

[52:26] remodel with a Juliet balcony off the

[52:28] sun sunroom and an exterior spiral

[52:31] staircase connecting to the deck. The

[52:33] project also proposes reconstruction of

[52:36] the existing non-conforming two-level

[52:38] rear deck which will be reduced in size

[52:40] and include a barbecue area, a steel

[52:43] trellis, sun shade at the upper level.

[52:47] Uh

[52:48] here

[52:51] uh new terraces with stacked stone walls

[52:53] and a hot tub are also proposed in the

[52:55] rear yard and a new parking deck is

[52:58] proposed adjacent to the existing

[53:01] garage. A non-conformative permit is

[53:03] required to allow the reconstruction of

[53:05] the existing deck and a variance is

[53:08] required to construct the terraces walls

[53:10] in the rear yard setback, a hot tub and

[53:12] a and the trellis in the rear and

[53:13] sideyard setback and the parking deck in

[53:16] the front yard setback and staff

[53:18] requires that the ADR group provide a

[53:20] recommendation to the town council.

[53:22] Thank you.

[53:23] >> Thanks, Alex. And would the applicant

[53:25] like to propose the project?

[53:39] Good evening.

[53:40] >> Hi

[53:40] >> everybody. Steven, is he here or he's

[53:43] just in the ether out there somewhere?

[53:44] Or maybe not.

[53:45] >> He is not with us this evening.

[53:47] >> Well, anyway, we were here I think a lot

[53:50] much like the first project that was

[53:52] presented three years ago or more uh

[53:55] with a very kind of similar proposal. uh

[53:58] previous proposal that was approved uh

[54:01] included the rebuild of the deck, uh a

[54:04] lot of the kind of restoration of the

[54:07] hillside, but it also included a

[54:10] swimming pool. Um

[54:12] so, uh anyway, uh here we are now. And I

[54:16] think that there's a lot of similarities

[54:18] between what we previously presented and

[54:21] what's here now, but there's much more

[54:24] emphasis on the deck, I think, in the

[54:26] living experience of

[54:29] um

[54:31] being in on the hillside there. And if

[54:34] you've visited, I think you all have

[54:36] maybe visited the property and

[54:39] um everything that's being done here or

[54:41] proposed is voluntary. So, there's

[54:44] already an existing deck there, right?

[54:45] You can put furniture on and live

[54:47] outside, but it just is really

[54:49] unsightly.

[54:50] Uh there's a strong emphasis, I think,

[54:52] for the homeowner who we've done many

[54:54] projects with to uh really make it a

[54:57] home and make it make sense. And uh so

[55:01] the idea of replacing that deck um for a

[55:05] more uh uh kind of enjoyable outdoor

[55:09] experience, but also to make something

[55:11] that fits, I think, on the hillside in

[55:13] this very challenging site

[55:16] uh uh more appropriate, I'll just say.

[55:19] And I think that um you know, a lot of

[55:22] the experience of the house is viewed

[55:24] through this deck, too, from the

[55:26] bedrooms below.

[55:28] And I think the idea of lightening that

[55:31] structure and making it a structure of

[55:33] interest will help those spaces as well.

[55:37] Um and and then another kind of

[55:40] motivation is to I think bring

[55:45] the experience down to the garden which

[55:48] currently is just a benched off flat

[55:51] area. Um and you know the again another

[55:55] voluntary kind of experiential exercise

[55:59] is to bring the hillside back restore

[56:02] the hillside and bring it back to the

[56:04] house. And we're proposing a series of

[56:07] these circular uh terraces that aren't

[56:11] the hillside but they mimic the hillside

[56:13] and are also uh areas of which you could

[56:16] occupy and have access to the rest of

[56:19] the site. So, uh, it helps ground the

[56:22] building. Um, and you know, I think

[56:25] again makes this such a val, you know,

[56:29] otherwise unused portion of the

[56:31] property, makes it inviting and like an

[56:35] experience that you would want to

[56:37] participate in. Um

[56:41] the uh other aspect of this project I

[56:45] think Alex that you pointed out is the

[56:47] uh parking deck which is um

[56:51] adjacent to the existing garage

[56:54] structure. And one of the initial like

[56:58] uh head scratchers uh if you've been up

[57:00] that road is like you know visitors

[57:02] coming and kind of taking your life into

[57:04] your hands like backing out of the

[57:06] driveway and or driving way up the to

[57:10] the top of the hill to turn around in

[57:12] somebody else's driveway. So, uh,

[57:14] there's a real need, I think, for the

[57:17] ability for a car to kind of maneuver,

[57:20] park safely or visitor to come and back,

[57:25] you know, pull in and then back safely

[57:27] back out onto Willow Hill. And I also

[57:31] think that a number of the

[57:34] few neighbors that are on this hill

[57:36] would appreciate it, I think, as well,

[57:37] just having that,

[57:40] I think, access to a turnaround up

[57:43] there. Um,

[57:45] so, um, I think that, you know, pretty

[57:49] much, uh, other than the details, I

[57:51] think that kind of describes what we're

[57:54] looking to do here. So, I'm happy to

[57:57] answer any questions that

[57:59] any

[58:00] >> Thank you.

[58:00] >> Yeah.

[58:01] >> Do Do any of you either of you have

[58:03] questions

[58:05] >> of the designer?

[58:06] >> Sure. I I have two questions. Uh first,

[58:09] I guess what was the thought process

[58:12] when locating the spa, the hot tub?

[58:16] >> Uh well, there's an area down uh at the

[58:19] lower level. Uh it's also for privacy I

[58:23] think too from viewing from the upper

[58:25] part of the deck. There's also an area

[58:27] that is on the lower part of the site

[58:29] that is below the bedroom level that has

[58:32] access to kind of a changing room or

[58:36] like potentially you know a bathroom

[58:39] down there. So putting it, I think, at

[58:41] that edge is also another kind of

[58:44] element, a built element that helps with

[58:47] restoring the hillside down there, too,

[58:49] because we're taking that long asphalt

[58:52] driveway out. So

[58:53] >> Oh, it is. Okay, that was my second

[58:55] question was going to be about that

[58:57] driveway because that Yeah,

[58:58] >> I pulled into that. I'm sorry. I pulled

[59:00] into that today and then I had to

[59:03] >> back up, go up the hill.

[59:06] >> Yeah. uh and it's right at the edge of

[59:07] the property. So there's it's on a

[59:09] cliff, you know. So there's like we

[59:11] looked and looked and looked at the

[59:12] possibility of creating a kind of a

[59:14] parking pad there or turnaround and it

[59:16] just became a monumental kind of

[59:18] engineering exercise. So

[59:20] >> okay,

[59:21] >> so the idea is that we we're bringing

[59:22] the hills that beautiful hillside and

[59:24] the um natives up to the building edge

[59:29] and just you know getting rid of the

[59:32] kind of carved in scars that have just

[59:35] whatever been a practical necessity I

[59:38] think over the years. But

[59:41] um yeah,

[59:44] >> are any of those little terraces the

[59:48] lower level walls do they reach anything

[59:50] above 3 ft?

[59:52] >> No, we terrace them all up to 30 in. So

[59:55] we don't need any handrails or

[59:57] >> that was intentional. Yeah.

[59:58] >> And no real tree loss for those as well,

[1:00:01] right?

[1:00:02] >> No, not for those. are sort of uh being

[1:00:04] built on top of what's now a kind of a

[1:00:06] flat

[1:00:08] >> grass area. Um there are yeah there's

[1:00:11] the beauty of those trees that are

[1:00:13] around there. We're not proposing to

[1:00:15] take out any of those. If anything,

[1:00:16] we're kind of pulling those trees with

[1:00:18] new specimens or new plants up the

[1:00:22] hillside, you know, big big box trees

[1:00:25] that will kind of I think get as close

[1:00:27] to a instant environment there as you

[1:00:30] can, you know, like in terms of Yeah.

[1:00:33] practically. So,

[1:00:35] >> question at this point, has this gone

[1:00:37] through fire department? Because

[1:00:39] >> yeah,

[1:00:39] >> there's a very good chance a lot of

[1:00:42] trees will be leaving you. I yeah I

[1:00:45] think it went through some scrutiny.

[1:00:47] Yeah. So head shaking over there. Thanks

[1:00:49] Savannah. But uh yeah so

[1:00:52] if you want to come

[1:01:01] » the fire the fire department did see all

[1:01:04] of the plans and they didn't have any

[1:01:06] comments about the trees. They were okay

[1:01:08] with the trees that we were taking

[1:01:09] because we were adding so many more. And

[1:01:11] the trees that we were taking were are

[1:01:13] um fire prone I guess. Um they did have

[1:01:18] other issues but with something else

[1:01:20] that we removed from the project. So

[1:01:23] they have seen the project and we've

[1:01:25] discussed with them. Um great all of

[1:01:27] these aspects.

[1:01:28] >> I'm just kind of curious actually. Thank

[1:01:30] you. Thank you.

[1:01:31] >> Any other questions of

[1:01:33] >> um Sure. just questions now focusing on

[1:01:37] the

[1:01:39] steel mesh railings um at the deck and

[1:01:43] then also the volume at the spiral

[1:01:46] staircase. Um sorry if you could explain

[1:01:50] that a little bit.

[1:01:50] >> Yeah, expand on that. Well, I think that

[1:01:52] the um mesh is a you know it's a

[1:01:56] transparent I think there's some images

[1:01:57] up there of the mesh that we've used

[1:01:59] successfully

[1:02:01] uh in the past. Um, I think that

[1:02:04] there's, you know, there's a maybe a

[1:02:06] initial thought that when you do a deck

[1:02:08] or minimal deck, you do some linear

[1:02:13] cable railing or make it look like a

[1:02:15] deck. I think our idea here was not so

[1:02:17] much to make it a deck, but make it a

[1:02:21] extension of the house

[1:02:23] that's open to the air, right? So it has

[1:02:27] some volume and some mass to it that is

[1:02:31] needed I think to ground that structure.

[1:02:35] And the mesh is you know like a very

[1:02:38] sort of image there in the upper right

[1:02:40] hand corner where we use a variation of

[1:02:43] different uh openings in the mesh or

[1:02:47] orientation of the mesh to allow that

[1:02:50] air and light to go through but also to

[1:02:53] create a kind of a formal

[1:02:56] aspect and proportion to it that uh is

[1:03:00] you know uh goes outside I think of what

[1:03:03] maybe is typically seen the spiral stair

[1:03:08] is actually a really efficient way to

[1:03:10] make a stair from a volume standpoint

[1:03:13] too is in terms of like its perceived

[1:03:16] mass on a site first of all it's round

[1:03:19] you know I think if you square those

[1:03:20] edges off it becomes a much more robust

[1:03:23] looking stair and two the idea of a

[1:03:25] round element too the way it kind of

[1:03:27] light

[1:03:29] >> moves around it I think it would

[1:03:30] actually have a really light

[1:03:33] >> almost arboritum type feel to it as you

[1:03:36] move the experience as you move from

[1:03:38] that upper deck

[1:03:40] uh down below into the garden. So I

[1:03:42] think that's the the reason for it.

[1:03:45] Yeah. So

[1:03:46] >> Okay. And so it's like a design element

[1:03:48] rather than just having the railing kind

[1:03:51] of going up as the staircase spirals up

[1:03:55] you or

[1:03:57] >> you want it as that whole solid volume.

[1:03:59] >> I'm not understanding the question.

[1:04:01] that uh

[1:04:02] >> I I think what she's describing is in if

[1:04:04] you the metal mesh is completely

[1:04:07] >> encasing the spiral stair from base to

[1:04:10] top on all three sides you got there

[1:04:15] panels that go down. Yep.

[1:04:17] >> Having it follow the actual

[1:04:18] >> the elevation

[1:04:20] and and railings.

[1:04:21] >> Correct. Yeah. You would see the

[1:04:23] silhouette of the stair. Thank you. they

[1:04:25] would see the silhouette of the

[1:04:26] structure of the stair behind the mesh

[1:04:30] paneling as opposed to uh like an open

[1:04:33] railing where maybe you would see

[1:04:35] pickets or like you know some kind of

[1:04:37] more um

[1:04:39] >> Okay. I'm just thinking about it in a

[1:04:41] like a bulk and mass perspective from

[1:04:43] down the view from down the hill looking

[1:04:46] up.

[1:04:46] >> Yeah.

[1:04:47] Uh well, I think we're also

[1:04:50] concerned about that. You know,

[1:04:51] obviously I I just want I think it's the

[1:04:54] uh again the concept of making this a

[1:04:58] structure that

[1:04:59] >> takes it out of the deck language,

[1:05:01] right? But it's I don't think that that

[1:05:03] that's not going to be a

[1:05:06] >> I mean, even if they can see it, I hope

[1:05:07] they can see it. It's going to look

[1:05:09] great, you know? So, uh, you know, I I I

[1:05:12] don't know how visible it is down there,

[1:05:15] but I I think it's going to be quite a

[1:05:17] lovely and kind of magical

[1:05:20] piece of the architecture that you're

[1:05:22] going to be able to see the trees

[1:05:24] through. And again, as you kind of move

[1:05:27] through that space, I feel like it

[1:05:30] >> gives it some

[1:05:31] >> the out

[1:05:32] >> substance as opposed to, you know, you

[1:05:34] maybe see

[1:05:36] >> anywhere, you know. So, but that's the

[1:05:39] idea. I don't think it's maybe presented

[1:05:41] as such a massive element maybe as the

[1:05:44] drawings depict. Um but um but it is

[1:05:48] part of the idea. So

[1:05:50] >> Okay. Thank you.

[1:05:52] >> Can I ask another question uh about the

[1:05:54] parking pad? The geometry of the parking

[1:05:56] pad specifically. It uh just the it's

[1:05:59] sort of a triangular shape. I wasn't

[1:06:02] sure where the the right hand side is

[1:06:04] spled, but I was trying to think if

[1:06:06] you're coming from below the hill,

[1:06:08] you're coming up backing out of that angle doesn't really facilitate

[1:06:13] easy pull in pull out. So, I wasn't sure

[1:06:14] where that angle came from.

[1:06:16] >> Yeah. Well, I think that the other idea

[1:06:18] there is that what you would do is like

[1:06:19] if it wasn't maybe a a more traditional

[1:06:21] twocar parking pad is that that you

[1:06:24] would just make that a rectangle, right?

[1:06:25] you know, so I think just cut cutting

[1:06:28] out the edge of that makes it just known

[1:06:30] that it's like a kind of not permanent

[1:06:33] parking space. It's a onecar parking

[1:06:35] space. You could pull out the usually

[1:06:37] people come up from below. They pull in

[1:06:39] there and then when they leave there's

[1:06:41] no reason to go back up the hill. So you

[1:06:44] kind of pull out in that direction of

[1:06:45] that angle onto Willow Hill and then

[1:06:48] down Willow Hill. Um, so I think the

[1:06:51] idea here is really just to kind of keep

[1:06:53] the space functional as a turnaround,

[1:06:55] but not make some massive parking deck

[1:06:58] that kind of competes with the garage

[1:07:01] itself. I think there's a lot of

[1:07:02] sensitivity

[1:07:04] to this side of the house for that very

[1:07:07] reason for the neighbors. I think that

[1:07:09] they experience this valley that kind of

[1:07:12] goes down. There's a walk path that goes

[1:07:14] down from Willow Hill to Madrron and you

[1:07:19] know so you would be walking near this

[1:07:21] structure. So again it needs to have

[1:07:25] some

[1:07:27] lightness and I think beauty to it and

[1:07:30] uh take it out of maybe the typical

[1:07:33] language of

[1:07:35] >> deck. Do you have an elevation of that

[1:07:38] parking deck?

[1:07:39] >> Yeah.

[1:07:39] >> What it looks like? Yeah, I think it's

[1:07:42] >> you find it.

[1:07:44] >> There it is. Bottom right.

[1:07:49] » I think too if you look at the site

[1:07:50] plan, you can kind of see the shape of

[1:07:52] the road too. It kind of makes a little

[1:07:54] maybe more sense looking at that too.

[1:07:56] But that's the those are the elevations

[1:07:58] of the Yep.

[1:08:01] >> Do you have any more questions on that

[1:08:02] particular thing? No. I I was going to

[1:08:04] ask you to talk a little bit about the

[1:08:06] um trellis at the upper level. Yeah,

[1:08:08] >> you provided a number of different

[1:08:10] images that what the trellis could feel

[1:08:13] like. Uh, but they're they're kind of

[1:08:15] pretty different. So, I was hoping you

[1:08:17] could zero in on what you visualize that

[1:08:20] trellis up above to be because you have

[1:08:23] some that are solid with glass, you have

[1:08:25] some with canopy, you have some with

[1:08:27] solid canopy as far as inspirational

[1:08:30] photos. So, what do you think that's

[1:08:31] looking like?

[1:08:32] >> Yeah. And there's nothing, you know, I

[1:08:33] don't think exactly like it, but it's

[1:08:35] kind of an open structure. there's no

[1:08:38] hard surface to the top to it. Um that

[1:08:42] the idea there is that there is a much

[1:08:45] like this image a very uh wavy something

[1:08:50] that moves in the breeze that looks

[1:08:52] light that can provide shade for that

[1:08:54] deck without having the

[1:08:57] uh mass I guess of a solid structure up

[1:09:00] there. Like those are all just images I

[1:09:03] think of an open structure. Granted,

[1:09:06] that is one that you know just has I

[1:09:08] think that the sun shade part of it is

[1:09:11] permanent, right? They just have lattice

[1:09:12] there, but we're not proposing lattice.

[1:09:15] I think the emphasis there is it's an

[1:09:17] open structure that you see and then

[1:09:19] that there is this canopy

[1:09:22] either fabric or uh that reed grass that

[1:09:26] um can be retractable that acts as a

[1:09:29] shade that you can manipulate to like on

[1:09:31] a cooler day or warmer day. um as

[1:09:35] opposed to having something that's more

[1:09:37] permanent up there. Um so,

[1:09:40] >> okay.

[1:09:40] >> Thank you.

[1:09:41] >> Yeah, that's the idea.

[1:09:45] >> Thanks. I will I'll give you a little

[1:09:47] personal experience. If as soon as the

[1:09:49] fire department has anything to do with

[1:09:51] any structure attached to your house

[1:09:53] that has any foliage on it, it will be

[1:09:56] taken away from you.

[1:09:58] >> So, just just so you know,

[1:10:01] >> there's no foliage on this structure.

[1:10:02] Like we're not we asked even more

[1:10:04] emphasis on why it needs to have its own

[1:10:06] beauty, right? You know,

[1:10:07] >> yeah. Any natural woven anything

[1:10:11] attached to your house,

[1:10:13] >> make it out of unnatural things.

[1:10:15] >> Going through that right now. But

[1:10:16] anyway, uh any more questions?

[1:10:21] >> No, I think that covers off mine.

[1:10:25] >> Who wants to go first?

[1:10:27] >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. Forgot. Went out of

[1:10:29] order there. I told you I would. Uh, are

[1:10:32] there any comments from the audience or

[1:10:35] online?

[1:10:36] >> There's no one online.

[1:10:38] >> Any of you have anything to say over

[1:10:39] there?

[1:10:42] >> There's nobody out in the bushes.

[1:10:43] >> Want to vote for it?

[1:10:46] Um, okay. We'll bring it back to the

[1:10:48] ADR. Uh, Mark, would you like to go

[1:10:50] first?

[1:10:51] >> Sure. Yeah. So, we've seen this one

[1:10:52] before. Um, I think this is a a pretty

[1:10:54] substantial upgrade. I do appreciate I

[1:10:57] want to make sure you hear it loud and

[1:10:59] clear. the the pool was a bit of a

[1:11:01] unnerving approval last time. I know we

[1:11:03] went through many rounds of its location

[1:11:05] and its the neighbors down below and

[1:11:08] earthquakes, whatnot. So, I think this

[1:11:10] is a really nice um uh middle solve for

[1:11:14] that. And I think the terraces down at

[1:11:17] grade will actually be quite wonderful

[1:11:19] spaces. So, I I really appreciate that.

[1:11:21] Uh I think the the home upgrades are are

[1:11:25] fine. Uh the little Juliet balcony,

[1:11:28] great. Um, I think where I start to get

[1:11:30] a little concerned. I'll talk I'll start

[1:11:32] at the top. The the trellis I I think I

[1:11:35] would just go with something that was

[1:11:37] flat in lie of having the peak. Um, I

[1:11:40] don't think that I I see from a flat

[1:11:42] elevation standpoint that that starts to

[1:11:45] mirror the gable on the right hand side

[1:11:47] of the rear elevation, but let's admit

[1:11:50] it, you will never see that except when

[1:11:52] you're on the street below and that's

[1:11:53] pretty much impossible. So, I would I

[1:11:55] would prefer to see just a a horizontal

[1:11:58] uh trellis out there that you could just

[1:12:00] minimize the amount of volume that

[1:12:02] you've got on the hillside. So, that would be step one. Um I think along

[1:12:08] those same lines, I think the the the

[1:12:10] spiral stair and the fully enclosed mesh

[1:12:13] should while I I appreciate the sort of

[1:12:18] delicate nature of it might be too much

[1:12:21] mass when you look at this thing from

[1:12:22] below. I think when you look at mesh at

[1:12:24] an angle, you start to collapse that

[1:12:27] mesh into a solid form just by the

[1:12:29] nature of its weave and the the

[1:12:32] perspective of it. So, it's going to

[1:12:33] appear relatively massive. I think that spiral stair is, which I don't

[1:12:38] think is really the look that you might

[1:12:41] want to go for. So, I I don't have the

[1:12:42] problem with the mesh, but I think I

[1:12:44] might look at that in a little different

[1:12:46] way that it's a sculptural element on

[1:12:47] the edge of your building where maybe

[1:12:49] the mesh starts to follow the tread, the

[1:12:52] stringer up along with railings and just

[1:12:56] allows it to be a lighter element on the

[1:12:57] facade and on the hill.

[1:12:59] >> So, that would be I think it's a it

[1:13:01] would improve the overall massing from

[1:13:04] below, which is really the only place

[1:13:05] you see this thing from.

[1:13:08] Uh, third, I think on the parking deck,

[1:13:11] the reason why I asked you about that

[1:13:12] angle, the way I I envision, I want it

[1:13:15] to be as practical as possible, because

[1:13:17] that's really why you want to have it up

[1:13:18] there. I think you might want to make

[1:13:21] the 8 foot dimension a little bit longer

[1:13:24] uh at the top where the where the front

[1:13:26] of the car is. It's about eight and

[1:13:28] change now. And I think about pulling

[1:13:30] into that and then pulling back out,

[1:13:33] the front of the car is going to want to

[1:13:35] swing to the house, to the garage. And I

[1:13:38] think you need a little more leeway

[1:13:40] between the car and the existing garage

[1:13:42] to make that turn so that you're not

[1:13:45] hitting the front of your car into the

[1:13:47] garage. I just think it'll be more

[1:13:48] effective if it's got a little more give

[1:13:50] it a little more um

[1:13:53] >> air, a little more width.

[1:13:55] >> Okay.

[1:13:55] >> Because I think it'll just be more

[1:13:57] useful. You know what I'm I don't know

[1:13:58] if Alex wants to pull it back out, but

[1:14:00] as you pull back out and you're the rear

[1:14:02] of the car goes up the hill, the front

[1:14:05] swings to the to the garage facade, and

[1:14:08] I think you're just not going to have

[1:14:09] the room. It's going to be a pain in the

[1:14:11] ass to pull out,

[1:14:13] >> right? So, so I I would just give that

[1:14:16] another two feet at the head of it.

[1:14:18] Maybe maybe that angle isn't so steep,

[1:14:20] so your square footage is about the

[1:14:22] same, but I would just give your left

[1:14:23] hand side of that car a little more.

[1:14:25] >> Sure. I mean, I think they could I'm not

[1:14:27] sure what drove exactly the

[1:14:29] >> dimension at the end, but you know, if

[1:14:31] that increases a couple of feet or

[1:14:33] whatever,

[1:14:34] >> you're talking about like an 8 foot

[1:14:35] standard, you know, 8 by 20 is the car

[1:14:37] parking space, but given the road

[1:14:39] geometry, I think you want to make this

[1:14:41] as useful as possible.

[1:14:42] >> Um,

[1:14:43] >> I think that the uh everything up there

[1:14:45] is gravy, like, you know, so it's like

[1:14:49] this is luxury.

[1:14:51] >> It's like, but I hear what you're

[1:14:52] saying. I hear what you're saying. I do

[1:14:53] really want to say that from a from a

[1:14:55] lot of the projects we've seen around

[1:14:56] the town, having this extra space to

[1:14:59] pull off, whether it's for, you know,

[1:15:00] service personnel or whoever it might

[1:15:02] be, visitors, this is pretty valuable.

[1:15:04] So, I think I I could easily support

[1:15:06] that being the variance in the front.

[1:15:08] But that's that's a big uh plus in my

[1:15:11] mind.

[1:15:11] >> I think those are my only comments, but

[1:15:13] if I reserve the right to come back and

[1:15:14] say something.

[1:15:16] >> Um, okay. Mark did an excellent job. Uh,

[1:15:19] like kind of took all the comments I

[1:15:21] had. Um, I agree on this parking space

[1:15:25] because I was thinking turning into it,

[1:15:28] like making that left turn, your front

[1:15:30] end could end up kind of close to that

[1:15:32] angled wall. So, I also support, um, at

[1:15:35] the front of the car, making that

[1:15:37] portion a little bit wider. Um, I, you

[1:15:41] know, and then I think the grading down

[1:15:44] to the hot tub is a wonderful design.

[1:15:48] Um, working with the topography, I like

[1:15:50] that.

[1:15:51] Um,

[1:15:53] I agree. I I think it'd be worth

[1:15:56] revisiting the spiral staircase and just

[1:15:59] exploring the option of lightening it up

[1:16:01] instead of making that massive volume

[1:16:03] all the way down to the ground. Like, c

[1:16:06] could it be reduced um in scale by just

[1:16:09] having it go up along the stairs like

[1:16:12] railing height or whatever?

[1:16:14] Um,

[1:16:16] and I think the the last thing is coming

[1:16:19] back to the trellis that's on top of the

[1:16:21] roof deck. Um,

[1:16:24] I don't know if there's a lot of

[1:16:26] precedent for trelluses on like a

[1:16:29] threetory roof deck, but it is pretty

[1:16:31] tucked in there. So, I think just

[1:16:33] thinking about keeping that as light as

[1:16:35] possible. Um,

[1:16:38] I agree. I don't I'm not fully

[1:16:42] understanding the um angled roof for it.

[1:16:45] I think it could look

[1:16:48] It could make sense just with like a

[1:16:50] flat trellis. Um

[1:16:54] » I don't know. There's a cable there

[1:16:56] that's there now that sticks out on the

[1:16:58] dining room. Yep. But

[1:16:59] >> I could you pull up that elevation?

[1:17:05] » Yeah. There's a big gable on the right

[1:17:07] hand side there that kind of projects

[1:17:09] out the same as the uh

[1:17:12] >> as the trellis element.

[1:17:14] >> I would consider just looking at a flat

[1:17:17] design and lowering it to the

[1:17:21] >> like line the bottom of the roof line

[1:17:24] like where the gutter is. Spring height.

[1:17:27] >> Um

[1:17:28] >> Alex, if you go to

[1:17:30] a 1.7, I don't know if you have that,

[1:17:34] >> the side elevation, which would be the

[1:17:37] >> east elevation, you can start to see

[1:17:40] >> just as far as it would project out,

[1:17:42] right? Like so that's the that's the

[1:17:44] peak that he's describing, but this

[1:17:46] comes another

[1:17:48] >> 10 to 12 feet out out to that direction.

[1:17:51] So it's really the trellus is from here

[1:17:52] all the way out to there

[1:17:54] >> in relationship to the plan just to just

[1:17:56] to kind of keep

[1:17:58] >> what what's drawn.

[1:18:00] >> So

[1:18:01] >> can I is there possible to talk about

[1:18:03] that a little bit more?

[1:18:04] >> Sure.

[1:18:05] >> I don't what's the protocol? Do we need

[1:18:06] to wait or

[1:18:07] >> uh

[1:18:08] >> Well, it's really up to the chairman.

[1:18:11] >> What was the sheet again?

[1:18:12] >> Uh 1.7

[1:18:14] >> 1.7. Okay. Thank you.

[1:18:15] >> You know what? Since you're the last

[1:18:16] applicant, we can relax the rules a

[1:18:19] little bit. and I'm I'm the I'm the vice

[1:18:21] chair and I never know exactly how to

[1:18:23] run these meetings, but I would like to

[1:18:24] hear from you.

[1:18:25] >> Well, if it's assists the conversation,

[1:18:27] that's that's all. Um, so presently

[1:18:30] there's a deck up there now, as I think

[1:18:32] you all know. Um, it's

[1:18:35] difficult to use because it's either

[1:18:38] blazing hot in the summer, it's totally

[1:18:40] exposed, or in the winter because it's

[1:18:42] on the north side, it's not very

[1:18:44] comfortable because it doesn't get any

[1:18:46] sun. So, the purpose of the overhead

[1:18:49] element in this trellis is to provide

[1:18:52] the opportunity for Scott and his family

[1:18:54] to use it throughout the year. So they

[1:18:56] can on the cold days if it is sunny they

[1:18:58] can go out there but in the summertime

[1:19:01] when it's practically unusable they can

[1:19:04] cover it with a we were looking at a

[1:19:07] motorized fabric shade that they could

[1:19:09] retract so that that could come down on

[1:19:11] the sun you know for for a portion of it

[1:19:12] so that closer to the house they could

[1:19:14] eat outside or whatever in the um when

[1:19:16] the sun's out. I think it is so high up

[1:19:20] there that from below you're never going

[1:19:23] to perceive what that roof shape is on

[1:19:25] the trellis unless you're on the

[1:19:27] trellis. And given the cottage nature of

[1:19:30] the house, it's a 1914 former hunting

[1:19:32] cottage um it's it's a cabin and to put

[1:19:37] a flat roof element out there um even if

[1:19:40] it is open and trellis-like feels in

[1:19:43] congruous with the architecture. I think

[1:19:45] that the pitched form is really

[1:19:48] important for uh in uh reverence to the

[1:19:52] existing architecture. So I think you're

[1:19:54] really going to feel that when you're

[1:19:55] out on that deck, you're going to feel

[1:19:57] the experience of that pitched form.

[1:20:00] >> Thank you.

[1:20:01] >> Yeah,

[1:20:03] >> I'm going to say to my colleagues on

[1:20:05] relationship to that, so the spiral

[1:20:07] stair, the metal mesh, I wouldn't look

[1:20:09] at this as a as a hunting cottage at

[1:20:12] this point anymore. like as far as

[1:20:14] something that goes from a aesthetic

[1:20:16] standpoint, it's a metal trellis with

[1:20:18] metal railings all over the place. So, I

[1:20:21] don't think it's an I don't think it's a

[1:20:22] bad element. I just think it should be

[1:20:25] because you can see this from below,

[1:20:26] right? As the the home can be seen from

[1:20:28] down at the street below,

[1:20:30] >> right?

[1:20:30] >> That's that was my point.

[1:20:32] >> Yeah.

[1:20:33] >> So, and I agree if you look at the

[1:20:35] elevation from the side, that's the

[1:20:37] existing. Can you scroll to the

[1:20:39] proposed?

[1:20:40] >> Nope.

[1:20:44] 3.1 is the proposed. It's quite a ways

[1:20:46] down.

[1:20:46] >> 3.1. Okay.

[1:20:47] >> Sorry.

[1:20:57] » Yeah.

[1:20:58] >> Mhm. Right. So,

[1:21:03] um it so it goes all the way to the

[1:21:06] front edge. So, you actually will see

[1:21:07] that from the street. Right. if it was

[1:21:09] stepped back from that railing, maybe

[1:21:12] you wouldn't see it as much, but um so

[1:21:14] that is an element that is up for

[1:21:18] discussion. Um

[1:21:21] and it looks like it continues all the

[1:21:23] way back to the peak of the roof. Is

[1:21:26] that what I'm seeing?

[1:21:28] >> It's supported on the roof. Yeah. Mhm. I

[1:21:31] still stand with my comments of lowering

[1:21:33] it to the line of the gutter or just

[1:21:38] below uh and having it a flat element

[1:21:41] and or stepping it back away from that

[1:21:44] front edge.

[1:21:44] >> So if we were to step it back from the

[1:21:46] front edge, the gabled form wouldn't be

[1:21:49] as big of a concern.

[1:21:51] >> I think that's what she's saying. Yeah.

[1:21:54] >> So that's that's her comments. So So

[1:21:56] each of us weigh in. I was going to

[1:21:57] actually just put put out there it could

[1:21:59] be a gable I mean sorry a hip form too

[1:22:01] at that edge so that the horizontal line

[1:22:04] is it's red from below would remain in

[1:22:07] that there would be a hip shape much

[1:22:09] like over the kitchen form that would

[1:22:12] >> that would help

[1:22:13] >> go back

[1:22:15] I think to my colleagues once the

[1:22:18] material is put up on it right then it

[1:22:20] becomes more solid then it becomes a

[1:22:22] mass versus if as we're looking at it

[1:22:24] here it's transparent it wouldn't matter. To some degree, it doesn't

[1:22:28] matter very much because it's almost

[1:22:29] like story poles. But if you're starting

[1:22:31] to add lighting and a canvas or some

[1:22:35] bamboo piece or something, it's going to

[1:22:37] start to be pretty large and

[1:22:38] substantial.

[1:22:40] >> That's that was my comment. It it has to

[1:22:43] be seen in that light versus a super

[1:22:46] light and airy,

[1:22:48] >> you know, bunch of sticks.

[1:22:49] >> True. I will say I Well, are you have

[1:22:53] you finished your comments? Yeah. Sorry.

[1:22:55] Are are you do you have a

[1:22:57] >> um that's yeah that's all I have to

[1:22:59] share.

[1:22:59] >> So I will say I actually lived right

[1:23:03] above this house for 16 years at four

[1:23:06] Willow Hill Road and I know the heat on

[1:23:09] the deck. We did it one of those

[1:23:11] automatic awnings that comes in and out

[1:23:14] with the wind and the sun and

[1:23:15] everything. So I I know exactly what

[1:23:18] Scott is dealing with. And um I actually

[1:23:21] well just I'll give my comments about

[1:23:23] the whole project. I think the project's

[1:23:25] excellent. Uh my husband and I used to

[1:23:29] walk and try to figure out what we would

[1:23:31] do to fix that house. Like what how

[1:23:34] would we change that deck? And I always

[1:23:36] wanted him to buy it so I could fix it.

[1:23:39] And you guys are doing exactly what I

[1:23:41] wanted to do. Clean up that deck, push

[1:23:43] it back, just clean the whole thing up

[1:23:46] and make it uh just make it better in

[1:23:49] that way. So I I really appreciate that.

[1:23:52] And the parking up there is a nightmare.

[1:23:54] I would actually encourage you to do a

[1:23:57] twocar deck and just shroud it from

[1:23:59] below and get as much parking off the

[1:24:02] street as you possibly could because

[1:24:04] that canyon, nobody I mean, we walked up

[1:24:07] and down it, but nobody's hanging out in

[1:24:09] that canyon. And to that point, the only

[1:24:13] time you're looking up at their house is

[1:24:17] when you're driving up the road or when

[1:24:19] the residents are walking up the road

[1:24:21] when you you really have to crane your

[1:24:24] neck to look up there and see what's

[1:24:26] going on on their house. So, this this

[1:24:29] concept of

[1:24:31] that trellis bothering anyone is I I

[1:24:35] just can't see that. I do understand why

[1:24:38] you're doing the the gable on the

[1:24:40] trellis. I think it's a charming

[1:24:42] counterpoint to the other gable, but I

[1:24:45] do agree that we should pull that back.

[1:24:48] If you're going to do that shape, it

[1:24:49] should be half of the deck. And if

[1:24:51] you're going to do the whole deck, it

[1:24:53] should just be at the spring point. That those would be my comments. And I I

[1:24:58] love what you're doing um down below at

[1:25:01] the at grade. Another wait, one more

[1:25:04] reason to have two cars. If you're

[1:25:06] getting rid of that long driveway,

[1:25:08] that's that's where your guests are

[1:25:10] going to park. So, I would I would max

[1:25:12] that out, whatever the town would let

[1:25:14] you do. Um, and then the stairway, I the

[1:25:19] spiral stair, I also agree that's too

[1:25:22] big of a volume and I would like to see

[1:25:25] it just the railing just follow the

[1:25:27] spiral. So, those are my comments.

[1:25:33] So if we bring it back, we're basically

[1:25:37] 30 approving.

[1:25:39] We are two

[1:25:42] not approving of the um gabled trellis.

[1:25:46] Three of us.

[1:25:47] >> I could be convinced of the gabled

[1:25:48] trellis if it goes back another 10 to 15

[1:25:50] ft. 10 feet

[1:25:51] >> like to line with the other structure.

[1:25:54] >> Sure.

[1:25:54] >> You do the gabled trellis half of the

[1:25:56] deck, push it back or if you want to

[1:25:59] keep the trellis

[1:26:01] That first

[1:26:03] >> would you go back to the other?

[1:26:05] >> Yeah. Matching the

[1:26:06] >> Yeah. Where the first vertical is. I

[1:26:08] think that would be then you could keep

[1:26:10] the

[1:26:11] >> No. Where to the line of the existing

[1:26:13] building behind it?

[1:26:14] >> Yes.

[1:26:14] >> Yeah. Right there.

[1:26:15] >> Yes. That's what I'm referring.

[1:26:16] >> I could support that change.

[1:26:18] >> I could support that.

[1:26:19] >> Okay.

[1:26:19] >> Um could you support that?

[1:26:21] >> Sure.

[1:26:22] >> So, we're all in favor of keeping the

[1:26:24] gable trellis but cutting, you know,

[1:26:27] pushing it back. I think all three of us

[1:26:29] thought that you should not have that uh

[1:26:33] enclosed mesh spiral staircase. As cool

[1:26:37] as it could be, I think

[1:26:38] >> you guys are missing out. You're going

[1:26:39] to want to walk down that thing like

[1:26:41] what are you doing? It's still mesh.

[1:26:43] It's still spiral of you. I wanted to

[1:26:45] >> just not a big mess.

[1:26:47] >> We just We're just not digging it.

[1:26:50] >> All right. You're not invited to the

[1:26:51] party then.

[1:26:52] >> Okay. Well, I've been to many parties in

[1:26:54] that house. Um, I know Scott will invite

[1:26:57] me. Uh, but then

[1:27:00] >> and I would also go with you if on the

[1:27:03] parking pad.

[1:27:05] >> If it was two spaces, I think I could I

[1:27:08] could support that absolutely as well.

[1:27:10] >> Same.

[1:27:10] >> Yeah, it's a fire danger. It's that

[1:27:13] there people I teenage drivers up there.

[1:27:17] One of my kids almost drove off. I mean,

[1:27:19] it's we need to get cars off that road.

[1:27:22] So, uh, I would support that. I think

[1:27:24] we're all in favor of the project. It's

[1:27:26] just these little tweaks, right?

[1:27:28] >> Agreed.

[1:27:28] >> Is everybody Did you get the notes for

[1:27:31] that? Okay. Thank you guys.

[1:27:33] >> Sure.

[1:27:34] >> Staff question. So for um process,

[1:27:38] >> I mean, sorry, a process question. Do we

[1:27:41] need now to can we work out these

[1:27:43] changes directly with staff and get your

[1:27:45] approval or do we need to factor in

[1:27:47] another design review hearing before we

[1:27:50] can go to council?

[1:27:52] >> Okay.

[1:27:52] >> No, you'll do it with them. Okay, great.

[1:27:54] >> These are small enough where you'll and

[1:27:56] they sometimes will run it by us like is

[1:27:59] this okay?

[1:27:59] >> Okay, great. We're just trying to move

[1:28:01] it along. So, great.

[1:28:02] >> Yes.

[1:28:02] >> Beautiful. Thank you.

[1:28:03] >> All right. Thank you. Thank you guys.

[1:28:05] Whoops. All right. We are moving right

[1:28:08] along.

[1:28:11] >> Uh

[1:28:11] >> boom. Uh

[1:28:13] >> five information, discussion, and new

[1:28:15] agenda items.

[1:28:18] >> Thank you all very much.

[1:28:19] >> Thank you guys. Byebye.

[1:28:21] Um, so we just wanted to follow up on

[1:28:24] the

[1:28:25] setback exception or the pool exception,

[1:28:28] landscape features exception. If there

[1:28:31] was anything else that we didn't capture

[1:28:34] in that draft,

[1:28:36] um, let us know. I I think Alex sent the

[1:28:40] word file to the ADR.

[1:28:42] >> Yeah. Um, if it looks okay, then we'll

[1:28:45] go ahead and work on it and send it to

[1:28:47] the town attorney um and draft it so

[1:28:51] that it would be codified into the

[1:28:53] municipal code.

[1:28:55] >> Um,

[1:28:56] >> I had a question, but you you go first.

[1:28:58] you

[1:28:58] >> um just I was looking at this kind of

[1:29:01] last minute while right before I ran out

[1:29:04] to do my site visits so it's possible I

[1:29:06] missed it but um I thought that we had

[1:29:10] discussed there being like if a deck or

[1:29:13] patio space is in up to that 10 foot

[1:29:17] that new 10-ft setback um it was

[1:29:21] described as it couldn't exceed 18 in in

[1:29:24] height. Is that in that code anywhere?

[1:29:28] >> Can you open that? We do have

[1:29:31] >> Yeah. definition

[1:29:32] >> the

[1:29:34] not the definitions the um

[1:29:37] >> exception thing. Yeah.

[1:29:39] >> And what it applies to

[1:29:41] >> this one.

[1:29:42] >> Yeah.

[1:29:43] >> Let me share my screen.

[1:29:45] >> Maybe.

[1:29:46] >> I know we have decks on there, but I

[1:29:48] don't know if we said the height.

[1:29:49] >> There was the 4 foot limitation. But

[1:29:52] there's something about the deck. I

[1:29:54] think there's something on the deck

[1:29:55] that's

[1:29:55] >> pool decks not exceeding 18 in in

[1:29:59] height. Yeah. So, it can't be higher

[1:30:01] than 18 in.

[1:30:02] >> But, but any feature such as a fireplace

[1:30:06] or anything like that could go up to

[1:30:08] four feet.

[1:30:08] >> Four feet. Yeah, that's in there, too.

[1:30:10] >> Okay.

[1:30:10] >> I had a question on that. I I had a

[1:30:13] general question maybe for all of us.

[1:30:16] Um, in this situation where there's a

[1:30:18] sloping lot and someone wants to build a

[1:30:21] pool and the pool stays within that 10,

[1:30:25] you see meets that 10-ft setback but now

[1:30:28] has a retaining wall, you know, a sixoot

[1:30:31] retaining wall, let's say, or 7 foot,

[1:30:34] would that get administerial review or

[1:30:36] would that fall outside of that because

[1:30:38] it's a higher retaining like how does

[1:30:40] that work?

[1:30:41] >> Yes. So if it's a higher retaining wall,

[1:30:44] if it's six feet and it needs a

[1:30:46] variance, it would still they would

[1:30:48] still need to get design review.

[1:30:50] >> Okay. But it would be 6 foot would be

[1:30:52] the height that

[1:30:54] >> 48 in over 48 inches would trigger

[1:30:57] designer.

[1:30:57] >> 48 in.

[1:30:58] >> Yes. So 4T.

[1:31:00] Does that feel good with you guys? That

[1:31:02] feels good, right?

[1:31:02] >> Yeah. If it's over if you're starting to

[1:31:05] have a huge retaining wall that's in 10

[1:31:08] feet away from the set. That's why I was

[1:31:09] wondering like is someone going to be

[1:31:11] doing that and they're going to be like

[1:31:12] this this site that we just looked at if

[1:31:15] they had gone out and dropped a 6 to 8t

[1:31:17] wall we would have been like oh okay I

[1:31:20] guess we didn't really mean that

[1:31:22] >> so this 48 in that sounds pretty good

[1:31:25] okay

[1:31:26] >> that's the max

[1:31:27] >> and then I think we

[1:31:28] >> Hold on just a second if you if you

[1:31:30] imagine a 48 inch retaining wall for a

[1:31:34] pool and then a a railing on top

[1:31:36] >> railing on top of that right it starts

[1:31:38] to be 8 ft of stuff

[1:31:41] >> I think. Which aren't you not allowed to

[1:31:42] do that now?

[1:31:45] >> What part of our

[1:31:47] >> I don't know with our project we had

[1:31:49] some

[1:31:51] >> which part like the railing or the

[1:31:53] >> Yeah, it was like like if you have a

[1:31:56] pool deck and you're holding it back

[1:31:59] with a 48 inch retaining wall, you're

[1:32:01] going to have to have a 42 inch railing

[1:32:03] on top of that,

[1:32:04] >> right? And I think we couldn't do it as

[1:32:06] a concrete wall, we had to like open

[1:32:10] it up and have it be like a open

[1:32:13] structure underneath.

[1:32:16] >> Oh,

[1:32:16] >> because with the railing on top, then it

[1:32:19] would be too tall

[1:32:20] >> like

[1:32:21] >> so it was on peers in lie of

[1:32:24] >> Yeah. So, and like at my project, it's

[1:32:27] not fully

[1:32:29] >> enclosed underneath it.

[1:32:30] >> Well, no, it it is. Sorry, I'm

[1:32:32] describing it poorly. Um, the pool is

[1:32:35] partially above ground because the site

[1:32:37] slopes down and so we have a wall at the

[1:32:40] end of the decking that

[1:32:43] it was described to me that with the

[1:32:46] three foot wall there, we couldn't then

[1:32:49] add the railing

[1:32:51] on top. But maybe maybe that's not the

[1:32:54] case.

[1:32:55] >> I just I'm trying to trying to think

[1:32:56] through the scenarios that we've seen

[1:32:58] pools go in. It's nice in a flat space.

[1:33:00] You wouldn't be able to I think it's

[1:33:01] worse if it's a 10 foot setback and then

[1:33:04] someone's

[1:33:05] >> right

[1:33:05] >> going up to 80 something inches.

[1:33:08] >> That's what worried me a little bit.

[1:33:09] >> If you had say someone did a retaining

[1:33:11] wall that's 4T and then they wanted to

[1:33:14] do a railing that was solid,

[1:33:16] >> right?

[1:33:16] >> Then we would count that as part of the

[1:33:18] height, right? Like if they said, "Well,

[1:33:21] we just want to make that wall add

[1:33:24] another

[1:33:25] >> 42 in."

[1:33:26] >> Exactly.

[1:33:27] But it could be an open railing,

[1:33:30] >> right? But if it was an open railing, I

[1:33:32] don't think we would count it towards

[1:33:33] the height of the retaining wall.

[1:33:35] >> We wouldn't. But how do we feel about

[1:33:36] that

[1:33:38] >> as would we?

[1:33:40] >> Yeah. I'm I'm

[1:33:40] >> I'm just trying to think through those.

[1:33:42] >> I'm trying to think of I mean, you

[1:33:43] almost wonder if anything that is in the

[1:33:47] hillside lot

[1:33:49] doesn't get this.

[1:33:50] >> That's where I was wondering like in a

[1:33:52] hillside scenario, this doesn't this 10-

[1:33:55] foot thing doesn't apply. But I don't

[1:33:57] know. I haven't I haven't thought it

[1:33:59] through. I just am envisioning a lot of

[1:34:01] these projects that are that end up

[1:34:03] having pools that are partially

[1:34:06] >> on grade and then jut out

[1:34:08] >> that they we end up having these

[1:34:10] retaining wall conversations.

[1:34:11] >> Well, look at this one that just came in

[1:34:13] with their old pool design. They could

[1:34:15] have pushed that right up to the

[1:34:17] >> That's why it's it's literally the

[1:34:19] project that made me think like, boy,

[1:34:21] >> what happened?

[1:34:22] >> That's a weird road though because

[1:34:23] >> Yeah, I know. Our lot was such a funky

[1:34:27] whoever set that road up.

[1:34:29] >> Yeah, it's

[1:34:30] >> our lot had an ease like everybody else

[1:34:32] had an easement over our lot which was

[1:34:34] like a Z. So they all traveled over our

[1:34:37] lot. It was bizarre.

[1:34:38] >> But anyway, they even that that one, you

[1:34:43] know, take 10 feet from their property

[1:34:44] line and they're doing a a retaining

[1:34:46] wall for pool and then a railing on top

[1:34:49] of it and you're looking up at it.

[1:34:50] >> Yeah.

[1:34:51] >> Do you want us to look at that? Do you

[1:34:53] want us to look at think about it

[1:34:54] whether or not this is a a problem. Now

[1:34:58] another question I had was if something

[1:35:00] comes in and meets these requirements

[1:35:03] it's you know 10 feet four feet blah blah can you still say I think we

[1:35:08] need to go through design review or you

[1:35:10] can't because like if there are like

[1:35:14] whoa that's not what I thought this

[1:35:15] would turn out to be we should have

[1:35:17] design review look at this is that up to

[1:35:19] you guys but I think I read in this that

[1:35:21] you have the

[1:35:22] >> the say you have the jurisdiction to say

[1:35:25] you don't need to go through design

[1:35:26] review or you do need to

[1:35:27] I think so. I think there's um language

[1:35:31] there that would give Alex and I an out

[1:35:33] that they still need to go through

[1:35:35] design review. I guess it just makes it

[1:35:38] harder cuz it's subjective. Like what would be those things?

[1:35:41] >> I don't want that

[1:35:42] >> be real hard on them.

[1:35:43] >> I only wonder of the things we haven't

[1:35:45] thought about and something slides in

[1:35:47] and it's like oh they did make that a

[1:35:49] solid 4 foot and then another solid

[1:35:51] railing. Well, it's not really a

[1:35:52] retaining wall up there but now it's an

[1:35:54] 8ft wall. Like

[1:35:55] >> how about this? Does sorry guys how

[1:35:57] about this doesn't apply

[1:35:59] >> I think you still need to be on so that

[1:36:00] yeah

[1:36:01] >> how about that this doesn't apply to

[1:36:04] anything with a slope over x

[1:36:08] >> so the hillside lot is 30% so if it's

[1:36:10] 30% than your hillside lot this doesn't

[1:36:13] apply

[1:36:13] >> well it would trigger

[1:36:14] >> what about

[1:36:16] trigger designer view

[1:36:17] >> yeah trigger varian I mean actually that

[1:36:19] lot we saw today with the pool

[1:36:22] >> the lot might be hillside lot right but

[1:36:24] the pool was on a flat area,

[1:36:26] >> right?

[1:36:27] >> But did have a big retaining wall, but

[1:36:28] it exists. I don't know. I just brought

[1:36:30] it up. It may not be a thing. This may

[1:36:32] not as long as that 4 foot is the max.

[1:36:36] >> Mhm.

[1:36:37] >> Maybe it's okay.

[1:36:38] >> Look at the pool that was came through

[1:36:40] for the reissuing of the permit. You

[1:36:43] know, the the one um

[1:36:44] >> Yes. On upper

[1:36:45] >> 101. Yeah.

[1:36:46] >> Okay. So,

[1:36:48] >> they could actually have that pool a lot

[1:36:50] closer to the property lineup. And that

[1:36:52] could be I mean I you know

[1:36:55] >> the the neighbors should be very happy

[1:36:57] that they

[1:36:58] >> took what they got because now they

[1:37:00] could come back and push that way out to

[1:37:03] the road and then it would have you know

[1:37:05] retaining walls and

[1:37:07] >> Yeah.

[1:37:07] >> railings. So

[1:37:09] >> and that's a hillside line.

[1:37:10] >> Same for the ADU too.

[1:37:12] >> Yeah. We got to be careful about that.

[1:37:13] >> Yeah.

[1:37:15] >> So maybe just think about that. Another

[1:37:17] area I just thought we want to add um

[1:37:19] and I'll send you just a couple quick

[1:37:20] notes, but trellis wasn't I mean it's

[1:37:24] not specifically called out anywhere and

[1:37:26] oftentimes we see these sort of poolside

[1:37:28] trelluses and in

[1:37:32] uh yeah this one.

[1:37:36] Oh, so the pool just I'll pause the

[1:37:39] trails for a second in this one right

[1:37:40] here that you have up. So pool equipment

[1:37:43] is still required to be in the building

[1:37:45] setbacks.

[1:37:47] >> Yes,

[1:37:48] >> that's what this reads to me.

[1:37:50] >> That is what that reads, but um the town

[1:37:53] already has a minor exception,

[1:37:55] >> right? Yeah.

[1:37:56] >> So we probably want to align this to

[1:37:57] that, right? Exactly. Okay. So So pool

[1:38:00] equipment will be available to be within

[1:38:03] this landscape setback.

[1:38:05] >> The 10 ft.

[1:38:06] Yeah. Not with

[1:38:09] >> it has to be out. Yeah. Yeah. up to the

[1:38:11] 10 ft. Okay,

[1:38:12] >> great. Um,

[1:38:14] and yeah, I just thought there were a

[1:38:16] couple spots we could clarify trelluses

[1:38:18] as an example of a structure that does

[1:38:21] not meet the

[1:38:24] um available availability for this

[1:38:27] expedited review. Like I don't want to

[1:38:30] have trelluses in this zone unless

[1:38:34] because we have this 4ft height thing,

[1:38:36] right? So I think trelluses should be

[1:38:38] bring them to design review or something

[1:38:40] like that

[1:38:40] >> or stick to the old setbacks for

[1:38:43] trellis.

[1:38:43] >> Yes, that's right. Stick to the old

[1:38:45] setbacks or you have to come to design

[1:38:47] review.

[1:38:47] >> Yeah.

[1:38:49] >> Okay. These trelluses are getting big.

[1:38:50] >> They're getting big and they're getting

[1:38:51] >> a couple of my projects that are lit up.

[1:38:53] They've got

[1:38:54] >> that's you know this that other thing is

[1:38:56] going to be heat lamps and lit up and a

[1:38:58] canopy and it's going to be like

[1:39:00] >> they're really cool. I mean, you can buy

[1:39:01] them prefab and they're they they're all

[1:39:04] electrified and you know, it's basically

[1:39:06] a building.

[1:39:07] >> And that's why I don't want I want to

[1:39:08] explicitly like get those things out of

[1:39:10] that space cuz that that

[1:39:13] >> they put speakers in them.

[1:39:14] >> Yeah. They're really they can be like a

[1:39:16] little building.

[1:39:17] >> Yeah. I think that's all Yeah. So,

[1:39:19] trelluses are not part of the landscape

[1:39:22] features definition. So, something like

[1:39:23] that would come.

[1:39:25] >> Yeah. I thought there there are some uh

[1:39:28] let's see. Yeah. 18.12.1

[1:39:33] 94 I think.

[1:39:35] >> Oh yeah, we listed.

[1:39:38] >> So that means it would be considered a

[1:39:39] structure which

[1:39:41] >> right uh

[1:39:42] >> which they would have to meet the

[1:39:43] setbacks.

[1:39:44] >> Yeah.

[1:39:45] What I was afraid of is the idea

[1:39:48] of

[1:39:50] uh something. Oh, thank you.

[1:39:54] >> It's still small.

[1:39:56] >> Yeah. Uh anyway, there there was

[1:40:00] pretty pool spots. Yeah, I see. You mean

[1:40:04] decks, patios, fireplaces, seat, walls?

[1:40:07] Yeah. Okay.

[1:40:09] Are there um

[1:40:11] 1847020?

[1:40:15] So, go down a little further.

[1:40:19] >> Is it the definition stuff?

[1:40:20] >> I don't know. Keep going. It's 1847.

[1:40:23] >> No.

[1:40:23] >> Oh, that's a different uh Let me see.

[1:40:25] this next page. I think

[1:40:27] >> it's to

[1:40:29] let me see.

[1:40:30] >> Go to your next tab.

[1:40:32] >> Oh.

[1:40:33] >> yeah.

[1:40:34] >> I can send you these. It's just trellis

[1:40:35] stuff. It's not a It's not anything we

[1:40:37] need to hold everybody up.

[1:40:38] >> Um I I do have one more question. Um did I read it correctly that ADR is not

[1:40:47] it won't trigger design review um for

[1:40:50] pools based on the 50 cubic yards of

[1:40:54] grade and fill. So that's getting taken

[1:40:56] out.

[1:40:57] >> Yeah. Otherwise, so 50 cubic yards is

[1:40:59] like three by three.

[1:41:02] >> So every pool is more than, you know, if

[1:41:04] you dig 3 feet

[1:41:06] >> and then 3 ft down, that's 50 cubic

[1:41:09] yards. So

[1:41:10] >> Okay. Yeah,

[1:41:12] >> there's no pool that's less than that.

[1:41:15] >> Yeah, we have that here uh under

[1:41:18] designer view requirements.

[1:41:21] Um, but you can either send us what you

[1:41:24] have or we can come back. We can look at

[1:41:26] like what um, hillside pools have been

[1:41:30] approved and maybe see um, if folks are

[1:41:33] trying to do this thing where they're

[1:41:35] pushing it to the edges of the property

[1:41:37] line versus uh, keeping it close to the

[1:41:40] house.

[1:41:42] >> Yeah. It's interesting because the

[1:41:43] hillside lots have larger setbacks.

[1:41:46] >> Yes.

[1:41:46] Larger set the bigger lots larger

[1:41:48] setbacks. Yeah. It depends on the square

[1:41:50] footage of the house.

[1:41:51] >> Oh, that's when it triggers.

[1:41:53] >> Take I would take a look at it and what

[1:41:55] I mean I I would love to get this thing

[1:41:57] done so that we I know

[1:41:58] >> have,

[1:42:00] >> you know, so whatever helps get it done

[1:42:02] so you can bring it to council and get

[1:42:04] it approved would be great.

[1:42:06] >> I don't know what we

[1:42:07] >> do. We bring it back one more time or

[1:42:08] can you just run with

[1:42:10] >> Depends on what? Yeah, I mean

[1:42:12] >> can we is it are

[1:42:13] >> I don't need to see it again. So you

[1:42:14] guys could also um we can draft it and

[1:42:17] you could look at it

[1:42:19] >> just send us your email.

[1:42:20] >> I think that would be good so that we

[1:42:22] can give it to you and go to council.

[1:42:24] Maybe we just specifically call out

[1:42:25] Stephen and Mark who haven't been

[1:42:27] haven't looked at it in a

[1:42:27] >> long right.

[1:42:28] >> Yeah.

[1:42:30] >> Because other than these little nitpicky

[1:42:31] things, I think I was totally fine with

[1:42:33] it and think it's great. I think it's a benefit to the town.

[1:42:38] >> Okay.

[1:42:38] >> Thank you.

[1:42:39] >> Sounds good. So I move to adjourn the

[1:42:43] meeting.

[1:42:44] >> Second it.

[1:42:45] >> Thanks guys.

ADR Meeting, May 19, 2026

Agenda

Transcript