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[0:52] This conference will now be recorded. >> Good evening everybody. Welcome to this

[0:57] regular meeting of the Bader City Council. It is Wednesday, September 2nd,

[1:01] 2026, and the time is 6:03 p.m. Roll call.

[1:04] » Jason Ny >> here.

[1:05] » Nicole Hansen present. >> Don Hurt

[1:08] » here. >> Sharon McCernall

[1:10] » here. >> Mike Parson

[1:13] » here. Mayor Shai >> here. We're all here.

[1:21] I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic

[1:26] for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[1:31] justice for all.

[1:36] » Mayor report outfall on the station funding. Um, we're working with CAC

[1:42] on the RSDA grant application. RAC is a a nonprofit organization um that helps

[1:49] with um complicated uh various they offer a variety of services and so the

[1:56] USDA put us in contact with them uh to help us with the application since it is

[2:01] a fairly uh complex thing. So make sure have another meeting with them tomorrow.

[2:05] So [snorts] um park tours uh state representative

[2:10] Joel McIntyre and uh Mr. Walsh were here today in town. Uh we gave them a tour of

[2:16] uh the city parks. Um Mr. Walsh is on the uh budget committee up there in

[2:23] Olympia and um they wanted to see firsthand um what that funding um that

[2:29] they approved can do for our community. And so uh we we showed them Warden

[2:35] [snorts] Park which is a completed project and we showed them uh Mcmurphy

[2:39] Park which hasn't broken ground yet. So we had good examples for for that. So we

[2:44] were very happy to see uh Warden Park and and how well it turned out. So that

[2:50] was that was fun. Uh wastewater treatment operator. So our

[2:55] longtime employee uh Bill Wilson is going to [snorts] retire at the end of

[2:59] the year and so we'll be uh looking to um open up a a job um posting for that

[3:06] position. Uh, Friends of Little Falls, they had

[3:10] their uh, concert event this last weekend. Um, was really great. I mean,

[3:13] there was a lot of people that came all day long. And so, thank you, Friends of

[3:17] Little Falls, for um, more putting on those fundraisers to help eventually

[3:22] build an amphitheater. Uh, any council reports tonight?

[3:28] » I got one on I Street. They chip sealed that.

[3:34] » Yes. That's nice. It's really nice. Except

[3:38] getting out on 506, it's already getting holes

[3:44] because the way you turn onto 506, your right tire kind of gets lifted off a

[3:51] little bit and so it spins. I don't know if we can do 15 20 feet of

[3:58] actual asphalt there just for being able because it's just going to dig it right

[4:03] back up through that chip seal. >> Is it a Was it an issue with the work

[4:09] done? >> I don't think so. I just think that

[4:12] because I've always gone down to D Street and uh but now that that's

[4:19] able to be driven on. I like cutting through there, but I just noticed

[4:23] getting on to 506, it's always I'm always got to watch and can't take off

[4:31] at all normal. >> Totally.

[4:33] » Um because it started to spin. And then today I noticed that it's

[4:38] a lot of people are having that issue. So I just think that the way that the

[4:42] road is it should get at least that launching area.

[4:48] Well, not launching area. Just kidding. officer. [laughter]

[4:52] » Do you think some of that that that do you think some of that

[4:57] » do you think some of that ground up or asphalt that we have from our road stuff

[5:03] would tack down and give it a >> I don't know I just

[5:09] » patch or anything like that any suggestions? I think that it just needs

[5:13] to actually get asphalted. So that's something for

[5:17] » we'll take we'll take a look at it. I mean the the right guy is here right

[5:21] now. So he's listening intently. So >> I but I do want to make a comment. I

[5:24] mean arguably you said was the work maybe improperly done. Arguably it's

[5:29] improperly done if three weeks later it's not working right. Or maybe they

[5:32] should have said hey this isn't going to work here. So there is some part of me

[5:36] that's like wait I paid for something. It's not working three weeks later.

[5:40] There's a mismatch there. >> Yeah, we'll take a look at it and see if

[5:43] it's >> loose or if it's just [snorts] a high

[5:46] use area. >> It's my fault.

[5:49] » It's my fault. Or yeah, maybe.

[5:55] » Okay, other council reports. [snorts]

[6:00] » Okay, moving on to agenda approval. I don't have any suggested changes.

[6:08] I'll make a motion that we approve city council meeting agenda for September

[6:11] 2nd, 2026 as written. >> Have a motion to approve the agenda. Do

[6:15] we have a second? >> Second.

[6:16] » Seconded. Any discussion? >> All those in favor say I.

[6:22] » I. >> I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Minutes

[6:26] approval. >> Make a motion we approve the [snorts]

[6:29] city council meeting minutes for August 19th, 2026.

[6:33] » Have a motion to approve the minutes. Do you have a second? Second.

[6:38] » All right. Any discussion?

[6:43] All those in favor say I. >> I.

[6:45] » I. >> Any oppose? Motion carries.

[6:48] » Who is the second? >> Jason.

[6:54] » I'll call it out. Trying to be faster. >> Voucher approval.

[7:01] Make a motion that we approve the vouchers for the beginning of September

[7:04] 2026 at $26,96947.

[7:09] Motion by Mr. Parsons to approve the vouchers. Do we have a second?

[7:12] » I'll second. >> Second by Mr. Hurt. Any discussion?

[7:17] » All those in favor say I. >> I.

[7:21] » Any opposed? >> Motion carries. Special reports. Lewis

[7:25] County Sheriff's Department. [clears throat]

[7:28] » Hello, Mr. Ruben. Good morning.

[7:34] » I have some more information for you later.

[7:36] » Okay. >> So, reference the month of August 2026.

[7:41] There was 338 citizen contacts, seven calls for duty on ship, 12 traffic

[7:47] stops, three infractions, and total of 29 calls for service.

[7:56] So, that's about it. Any questions?

[8:01] Have [clears throat] you seen any launching pads recently?

[8:09] [clears throat] >> Eyes on ice street now.

[8:16] » All right, next special report. Uh Darren Hutton, building department.

[8:27] » Uh for building, nothing's changed since last month. Um public works projects on

[8:35] September 14th will be starting the A Street storm water improvement along

[8:40] with some other miscellaneous projects around the city that'll go through

[8:43] mid-occtober. Any questions?

[8:49] You have questions.

[8:55] » Did you have a question? >> Yes.

[8:57] » What's your question? >> Just did you hear anything yet about

[9:01] demo community demo for >> nothing yet?

[9:07] » Yeah, I haven't gotten anything yet.

[9:14] » All right. Public comment. Any public comment related to the three city

[9:18] business items [snorts] >> about

[9:22] things above the agenda items? Well, mine is on here.

[9:26] » Anything on the agenda? >> Wait till

[9:33] [snorts] no rush if I if I may. >> Absolutely.

[9:41] » Thank you. I have three other meetings today. I didn't know I was coming here

[9:44] today. Actually, >> we have two suits in the audience.

[9:47] » I know. >> Wow.

[9:51] » Um, it's me again, Spencer Bud representing TJ Investments and also Ay,

[9:57] another one of our entities. Uh, you council may or may not be aware. City

[10:01] staff are aware that we own and intend to intended to conduct short subdivision

[10:06] on our parcels 7148001002

[10:11] and 7148001004 at A Street and Fifth right where the

[10:15] pavement of A Street ends and the gravel begins. That being said, we've read

[10:19] through the proposal uh that you guys are going to be considering tonight and

[10:23] we have a few questions based on uh your furniture improvement requirements for

[10:26] subdivisions. Uh specifically in question of our parcels, the questions

[10:31] would be would be would we be required to add sidewalks and street lights on

[10:34] the gravel street or would be would we be required to pave our section of the

[10:38] street? Would we be required to pave the whole street up to our section? Would

[10:42] the parcel between ours have to put their sidewalk on their parcel? If we're

[10:46] putting our sidewalk in on our parcel to the north and the parcel to the south

[10:51] because there's one between ours. And if they're not, how does that satisfy the

[10:55] state of requirement in section 25870 of your proposal that quote frontage

[10:59] improvements are necessary to establish a safe and functional pedestrian

[11:03] corridor given the two segments wouldn't connect to each other if they aren't

[11:07] building their section? Uh were any other options considered by the city

[11:12] other than uh frontage improvement requirements paid for by the developer

[11:16] in these cases for A Street, D Street, and the highway between uh the two

[11:20] sidewalk with a nice streetscape. There are options. It's a good it's a good

[11:24] plan for your streetscape and your your community's image. Local improvement

[11:28] district was another option that you might have considered. Uh safe routes to

[11:32] school grant might have been another option you could have considered. Uh

[11:34] maybe state funding in a capital request. You mentioned your state

[11:37] representatives were here today. Um that might get hung up if the design

[11:41] standards that uh are also being considered by council and pushed uh by

[11:45] planning commission last time um are approved by the state in a timely manner

[11:49] or stopped by the growth management hearings board. We as the top builders

[11:53] in your city would offer the proposal not mentioned in the plan which is very

[11:57] common in other similar communities which would be a fee inlue program so

[12:00] that you could bank those funds to do those infrastructure uh improvements

[12:05] that are very important for your community instead of having these

[12:08] questions posed or maybe having sidewalks to nowhere or sidewalks in

[12:13] front of one house but in front of uh not in front of another. So that's what

[12:16] I have for you today. Thank you. >> Thank you.

[12:20] I have a question. If you're going to com if I was going to

[12:25] comment on one of those three items, am I supposed to comment before would you

[12:29] or after >> or do I wait until you guys discuss it

[12:34] and then tell you >> either or?

[12:37] » Okay. >> Do it before. You do it before so we

[12:41] have your opinion. >> Oh, okay.

[12:44] » Because afterwards then we're done. Yeah.

[12:46] » Well, we're just discussing we're still

[12:50] » Yeah, we're processing. I mean, the process.

[12:53] » Yeah. No, there'll be time for there'll be time for questions on the subdivision

[12:56] stuff. That's fine. >> You should do it. Very

[12:59] » Yeah, it'll be fine. >> It's a discussion, not a not a vote. So,

[13:05] » thank you. >> Thank you.

[13:07] » Other public comment related to agenda items?

[13:12] » Okay. Moving on to city business item number one, council to discuss the 2027

[13:17] 4th of July event application and provide feedback. So last uh meeting we

[13:22] had a a quite a grand uh application from uh service regarding potentially an

[13:31] event next year for 4th of July. Um a lot of information in that

[13:36] application. So, um, some of the council members had, um, questions or

[13:41] clarifications and so we wanted to get, uh, city council to, uh, vocalize those

[13:46] so that we could kind of put something together. Obviously,

[13:50] Anson's here tonight, so he he's listening, but um, we wanted to put

[13:54] together something before, um, so that the the application maybe could get

[13:58] adjusted accordingly. So, this is your time.

[14:07] Go for it, Nicole. You're ready. [laughter]

[14:10] Start us out. >> Um, so first of all, thank you so

[14:14] detailed. This is a very detailed application, which I appreciate. One of

[14:18] the hardest things to do when reviewing a contract is identify items that are

[14:23] missing. Right? It's easy for us to identify what's here, but to know what's

[14:28] missing, especially for someone as new as me, um, in this process, is hard. So,

[14:33] I don't expect any of us to have the answer for that right now, but it is

[14:37] something we need to be thinking about or maybe the city can guide us.

[14:40] Obviously, there's an application for a reason. There's steps to follow, but in

[14:44] something this deep, it's hard to know what we're not thinking about. Um, and I

[14:49] think my two biggest questions are actually for council, not for the

[14:51] applicants. If we're going to do something this large, my first question

[14:55] is how are we going to handle parking?

[15:02] You have a second thought. Do

[15:05] » you want Do you want an answer? >> If you guys have ideas

[15:08] » for each >> I mean, if you have ideas.

[15:11] » Well, I think um Well, the the thing with the parking thing is that they're

[15:15] planning on people parking down here and then running a shuttle.

[15:18] » Yeah. >> To back and forth.

[15:20] » I agree. And I think that's a great idea. Does that mean we're limiting

[15:24] parking other places? >> That means we're what?

[15:26] » Are we limiting parking other places? Are we putting signage to make sure

[15:30] people go there? I just think that most people aren't going to be expecting

[15:34] parking in Mc Murphy. And so we need to figure out how we're going to manage

[15:39] parking throughout the city, whatever kind of signage that looks

[15:43] like. And this is an ongoing event thing, right? I mean,

[15:47] » obviously people can park throughout the city, but

[15:50] » yeah, >> I think um the way that is

[15:53] » kind [snorts] of designed is that it starts early in the morning down here.

[15:57] It kind of draws people there and then that's when they start shuttling people.

[16:03] » Yeah. >> Question about

[16:06] » I mean if there's if there's parking in town like regular parking I mean

[16:13] » there's not a whole lot. Maybe we can open up the the city lot over there for

[16:19] for parking. >> Let's just all think about it. Where do

[16:21] we want people to park? What do we want to protect? What do we

[16:25] » Yeah. There's also the opportunity for citizens to allow people to park on

[16:31] their property and charge because that's what they do at the Puallup Fairgrounds.

[16:37] All of Puallup gets I mean >> if they can fit five cars in their yard,

[16:41] they they fit five cars in their yard. >> Yep.

[16:44] » They put them in and from five to 10 bucks all over the Puallup area.

[16:51] » Yep. And then the only other thing, and this

[16:55] again is a big picture thing, I don't know that any of us have the answer. At

[16:59] least neighbors on my street are really frustrated with the behavior of the

[17:02] public. A handful of people can really ruin it for the bunch. I had people

[17:07] laying in my yard, their bikes in my yard during STP, no respect for the fact

[17:12] that it was private property. Other people were urinating in bushes

[17:17] » even though there were urinals. Like this kind of behavior is shocking. My

[17:22] neighbors were very frustrated with behavior during Fourth of July. I was

[17:25] very frustrated on all of these public events. You know, I'm starting to feel

[17:29] like I need to put fencing around my yard, which I would rather not do. And

[17:33] so, it's not something that city council can solve necessarily, [clears throat]

[17:37] but it is something that we need to be thinking about. We need to be thinking

[17:39] about our residents if we're going to have big events like this. And I think

[17:43] we want to, but I don't want angry residents

[17:46] » either. The parking problem that you have during the Fourth of July is when

[17:50] the fireworks are going off. It's not what's going on downtown.

[17:54] » Um, I had people in my yard again. I had people lighting fireworks off in my

[17:58] driveway while I wasn't home. I I mean, just complete disrespect for private

[18:03] property, which was surprising for me. I have it on my Ring camera. It's really

[18:09] a bummer, you know. And so, you just kind of I don't know what the answer is.

[18:13] Maybe we just have to always accept that that could happen. sprinklers.

[18:17] » We need to but I do think we need to at least address it for the residents

[18:22] because I think it's going to as our events grow, it's not just going to be

[18:25] my street, it's going to be other streets as well and residents are going

[18:28] to expect us to have some responsibility for that for inviting people here.

[18:32] » So, those are my questions. I know they're not specifically for the

[18:35] applicant, but

[18:39] » maybe we can get a [snorts] a thousand keep off the graph signs and we can

[18:44] stick them all over the place during these events.

[18:46] » I mean, I'm willing to use a paintball gun.

[18:48] » Paintball. >> You have a question? Yeah, I did. I

[18:54] because I wasn't here and James may have shared some of the information, but

[18:58] obviously for this year's Fourth of July, we went ahead and vote the field

[19:02] right here off of the highway. Was that fairly well used? In other words, does

[19:07] anybody know if that loaded up? I heard that there was quite a few people that

[19:10] went there, but I I didn't see it personally, so I was just looking for

[19:13] some input on that. >> If anybody

[19:16] » You live right there. Did you know? Did you notice James told me what?

[19:19] » Oh, you mean the one right behind U He Heidi and all them Rockies.

[19:24] » Yeah. >> Get there via the

[19:26] » I was sending quite a few people over there. I live on East Street. Okay.

[19:29] » And I sent quite a few people over there because they were parking and knocking

[19:34] trees down on each street and uh uh was blocking the whole road in case, you

[19:40] know, fire or police had to come through. So, I was telling them where to

[19:45] go up on around the corner there, but there was a quite a few cars out there.

[19:50] » And then, uh, for that event, do you get any community volunteers to direct

[19:54] traffic? >> Uh, we didn't have any of

[19:58] [clears throat] that this year. We tried to do it with um physical barriers,

[20:03] cones, notices, that kind of thing. Um, so obviously we didn't have anybody

[20:07] actively doing it other than me. Just to Nicole, just to Nicole's point, it may

[20:13] make sense to have some volunteer community people wearing some type of a

[20:16] red reflective thing that says, you know, traffic engineer, whatever you

[20:20] want to put on it, and then have those people talk, you know, talking to people

[20:23] that are doing nasty stuff in her yard and said, "Hey, you guys can't do this."

[20:27] » Or even just seeing seeing the line of cars coming down the hill and just they

[20:31] would see a flagger person and know that it's parking for the event and they, you

[20:35] know, follow you into wherever you needed to go.

[20:38] » Yeah. With regard to um D Street, which is um just in front of where the

[20:43] fireworks were, there's going to be a larger conversation about how the city

[20:46] should handle that um in in coming events because

[20:52] there were a variety of issues. I mean, obviously, no one got hurt. It it

[20:56] happened and everyone had a good time, but um it could be better. And it's

[21:00] going to take it's going to take people. >> The first year we did it down there, the

[21:04] whole street was blocked off. >> Yeah. It was closed and people could

[21:08] still get around. Um, >> was it Eight Street was blocked off? You

[21:15] could only go one way and parking on one side and only one way

[21:20] » going out motor cop up there directing traffic.

[21:26] The other thing that um if this goes with the promoter a

[21:34] QR code or so when they go to that in to get

[21:41] information about it have a whole parking

[21:44] locations [snorts] already mapped out beforehand so that

[21:49] they can it's part of the event page of the not just Facebook But but like if

[21:57] they have on the internet if there's a QR code, people can look at it and go

[22:02] straight to parking. >> So our biggest parking problem is during

[22:07] the fireworks. It isn't during on down at a street or at Murphy's Park. It's

[22:11] during the fireworks show itself. >> Yes.

[22:15] » Yeah. >> Question.

[22:18] How far away from where that lot that we have there that we made available

[22:24] parking is the main deal like a block or two.

[22:26] » It's across the highway. >> Just across the highway.

[22:28] » Oh, just across the Okay. >> They could sit in their cars.

[22:32] » Yeah. People aren't going very far then. Awesome. That's good. [snorts]

[22:37] » So, parking sitting right there. >> It's almost like a drive a drive-in

[22:41] spot. It was great. Great idea. Appreciate it, actually. I mean that a

[22:46] lot of the cars that were parked in there, people were sitting right there

[22:50] watching the fireworks. I mean, you're you're like this. [laughter]

[22:54] » So, some other other things about the application.

[22:57] » I was going to say I took this a little off, but I didn't mean to. But, um, so

[23:01] what do we what do we need to do? What are the next steps? What are our

[23:04] clarifications? For example, it says we request the use of all portaotties, but

[23:08] there's no need to change their locations. Are we making the assumption

[23:11] that they're the same number as last year? Uh, I think there need to be more

[23:15] personally, but

[23:19] » um, and budget season is coming up so we could at least consider these items.

[23:24] Please go ahead, Kristen. >> I just wanted to clarify because in

[23:27] there it said no cost to the city, but are you expecting everything the city

[23:31] did last year to still um, >> I wasn't here last year, so I don't know

[23:37] what the city did last year. >> Well, the city paid for the restrooms,

[23:40] » right? Okay, gotcha. So, are you the city to pay for

[23:45] » Yeah, there's a couple things like um not insurance, anything like that, but

[23:51] things to just like more infrastructure city would be great. It's not a

[23:55] necessary thing. Um but it's one of those things like it is a city event. Um

[24:01] city doesn't have to like pay a fee to have us organize this whole thing like

[24:04] you were saying we do an organizer. So it's a you know we're doing service for

[24:08] free but having more restrooms only for [clears throat] in that in that case.

[24:13] And how was it last year by the way or Tristan?

[24:17] » Were there enough restrooms? >> I was only here in the morning so I

[24:20] didn't see >> anybody have any feedback on

[24:22] » I do what was >> um up at the up at the uh fourth

[24:27] » paper >> up at the fireworks field. Um all the

[24:30] toilet paper ran out and so I had my kids run some over from my house.

[24:34] » Um it's It's a great >> It's a It's a burst capacity.

[24:39] » Burst capacity. Is that the right thing to say when you're talking about

[24:41] bathrooms? >> Um [laughter]

[24:43] but uh yeah, it was like everyone waited until 30 minutes before the fireworks

[24:47] show >> and then there's like

[24:49] » a mass run out. >> There's like 40 people in line for two

[24:52] bathrooms kind of thing, you know. >> Were there only two of them?

[24:54] » I think there were two or three. >> Yeah. It just wasn't enough. The lions

[24:59] people would see the lines and be like, I'm going to hold it an hour and walk

[25:01] away. >> Yeah.

[25:02] » Yeah. Oh, they're going to go use a tree on the cold

[25:04] » yard. >> Put signage up for us. 20 bucks on the

[25:09] tree. >> So many [laughter] you can have before

[25:11] it's not >> back to Mike's point, one of the things

[25:13] that maybe is if you had an available thing for parking, you could also do

[25:17] where the restrooms are located. >> Yeah.

[25:21] » So, >> that's a tough one. Sorry. Um, so the

[25:25] recommended amount for a thousand people is eight eight restrooms. Um, that's for

[25:30] an all day event though. You combine a thousand people into one small location

[25:34] for four hours. Maybe maybe it's a lot. Maybe it's twice

[25:38] the use. I don't know. But I can't see us putting 16 western there.

[25:46] » Yeah. And that was like how many they had? I don't know how many they had for

[25:50] STP. They had I don't know a dozen of them. Something like that. And

[25:54] » And they were still going and they were still lying. Yeah. Has has anybody

[25:59] considered talking to one of the people that supply the restrooms and getting

[26:02] the same advertising outlet so that on the event they would have something

[26:05] posted that advertise their business in exchange for a certain portion or all

[26:10] that all of that fee? >> It's a good idea.

[26:12] » They're asking us to Okay, so I just want clarification. These items under

[26:16] the special request, I'm not quite sure what Kristen read that said there's no

[26:19] cost to the city. There's a section in the application under special request

[26:22] that says we request the city pay for these things, these items. So I'm

[26:27] considering those are things that we need to be talking about as we're

[26:29] looking for budget. One of those things is portaotties. One of them is that they

[26:34] wave parking fees. So I do feel like there are some requests for costs to the

[26:37] city that to me align >> that we wave the park fees because

[26:42] there's like an application park fees. So I just would recommend that council

[26:47] specifically look at that part of the application because the special request

[26:51] items are the items that we're going to be asked to pay for.

[26:55] Kristen, I'm sorry I wrote on your copy. I

[26:58] » Kristen, no, you were right. I that was a mis that was I think I put no cost to

[27:02] the city before um more information came to me and from different organizers and

[27:09] things and that the thing was like hey when it comes to things that benefit

[27:12] city um such as or you know more infrastructure things see what the city

[27:17] can do on those typically you guys can do a better job I can pricing as well

[27:20] but uh to this gentleman's idea uh great idea to try to get it just supply or at

[27:27] least get a discount in addition to uh you know horrifying stage. I don't know.

[27:33] We can do something. But I'll look into that though because my idea is to to

[27:38] make the city not have to pay money for anything. But you know at the same time

[27:41] we want to be a partnership with something.

[27:43] » Does does the city pay for Mayday's? >> Uh the city pays for Mayday's um

[27:50] insurance and that's it. >> Okay. Not the outouses.

[27:54] » No. And [clears throat] we do wave their fees because they're nonprofit. Okay.

[27:58] » And we have we have special event we put aside money for special events,

[28:04] » right? >> Yep.

[28:05] » Which a lot of it we use for Fourth of July, but there's there's generally

[28:10] leftovers. >> I do appreciate that you're not asking

[28:13] us to pay for insurance for something like this. It would be very difficult

[28:15] for me as a city council member to approve that. So, I appreciate you

[28:19] taking that on in this application. >> Well, you're already paying insurance

[28:21] for fireworks and that's nasty. Like is it going to go up now or do you know?

[28:26] » It seems like it goes up every year. >> It goes up every year. It's a reasonable

[28:30] amount though. It's >> Yeah. Yeah. Like 5%.

[28:33] » Not that not that this is exactly on topic, but it is about Fourth of July

[28:38] next year is uh the son of the guy that did it.

[28:46] » Uh I have not had conversations with the um

[28:53] » [snorts] >> Your family's

[28:55] » the shooters. Yeah, that's what they call themselves. But

[28:58] » Oh, that's terrible. >> Oh, wait a second.

[29:02] » Oh, man. I just watched the news. There's another school shooting today.

[29:06] » Okay. How about >> pyrochnic uh provider?

[29:10] » Yeah, I got you. It took me a second though.

[29:14] » Yeah. >> Yes. Question.

[29:15] » Um, so obviously it kind of Anyway, you just talked about some of the cost of

[29:20] the city. So, is this is this a a revenue neutral event or there's a

[29:27] significant amount of money that we pay out? And if so,

[29:31] what streams of revenue do we have circled around the event? In other

[29:35] words, what what streams of revenue do we bring in to try to make it more of a

[29:39] cost neutral to the city? >> There are two aspects to the event. So,

[29:42] there's the kind of the the the daytime festival side of things and then there's

[29:47] the evening fireworks. and they're they're they're fairly separate events.

[29:53] Um the city has in in more recent years traditionally

[29:58] paid for the fireworks out of pocket. Um last year uh two years now, one year,

[30:03] two years, two years, uh we've got uh some grant funding from uh county

[30:08] tourism funds to uh help offset the cost of the fireworks, but obviously we don't

[30:13] charge for fireworks, so people can just stand outside.

[30:16] » Sure. And can I ask roughly what we think that cost is roughly? I don't I'm

[30:20] just looking for >> um fireworks around $7,000ish dollars

[30:24] plus insurance is on top of that. Um and then then there's the festival itself

[30:28] which um this year it made can't remember the number. I was I don't have

[30:33] it memorized. A couple thousand dollar >> $4,000. So the festival actually made

[30:37] around $4,000. So um and and food vendors and pl people like that are

[30:43] paying for their parking spaces while they're doing that.

[30:46] And we had pretty good turnout from the food vendors. Like do we do we feel like

[30:50] there's enough to support the event? >> Oh, yes. [snorts]

[30:54] » Okay. Yeah. So, you know, it's it's been good overall. So, it's good.

[31:00] » Um All right. So, other feedback for the applicant with the application. So, we

[31:06] wanted to make sure that they got all the feedback they needed, questions

[31:10] dialed in.

[31:15] I'm I'm excited about somebody other than the city doing it.

[31:21] » Hey, I had my hand up. Joe, did you see that?

[31:23] » Oh, I'm sorry, Sherry. This little city white icon. Go ahead.

[31:28] Okay. So, uh it says on the application that it is co-sponsored event by the

[31:34] city and over the last two years, three council members have said that we are

[31:40] the city is not to be involved in any of the festival portion minus the

[31:44] fireworks. So, what will the city be responsible for this year coming up?

[31:52] » Yeah. And I think on the application there were some uh it was like a

[31:56] multiple choice question and there were three or four choices and none of them

[32:00] really uh were the appropriate op box to properly check. So um did you want to

[32:07] feel that that question >> that what you said is exactly right.

[32:10] None of them none of them fit. So maybe we had a fifth box in there. But I I

[32:15] figured uh along the lines of the city's providing the fireworks, city's

[32:18] providing a lot of the services up top there. And so even though they're two

[32:24] distinct separate entities or or um events, I should say, uh they still kind

[32:30] of run together, but at the same time, yeah, I don't know. It's just one of

[32:33] those. >> It's messy.

[32:35] » I'm just going to disagree with that. I think they're I mean, while they appear

[32:37] to be one event, technically they're two separate events. However, there are

[32:41] items in here that we're paying for and if we agree to pay for those, we could

[32:45] argue that it's co-sponsored. I would agree with you that it's just an issue

[32:48] with the application. So, it's neither here nor there.

[32:52] » So, back then we supported

[32:56] » that seems like a

[33:00] I think one of the big issu the big things to remember is that nothing is

[33:03] nothing's set in stone ever. I know it's an application once it's approved, but

[33:07] uh you probably won't work with an easier two people on Earth when it comes

[33:11] to like, hey, give us some feedback, let's adjust, let's let's massage, let's

[33:15] change, let's do this, you know, let's move things around to to make it work

[33:18] for everybody. Um we absolutely cannot have like things like what Nicole

[33:23] experienced that her can't have that happening. It's just it puts a black eye

[33:27] on the city, puts a black eye on us. It's just not that and about 4,000 other

[33:31] things we've been considering. So, this is one of those things I've really tried

[33:34] to get ahead of everything and figure out what is going to create the best

[33:38] possible experience for everybody coming. Um, and what are the the

[33:42] implications of of not paying attention to these things or overdoing these

[33:47] things. So, uh, believe me, yeah, we we come at this from every single angle.

[33:52] So, if you do have feedback, please like please give it to us because we are more

[33:56] than welcome to to adjust and and switch up and yeah, whatever needs to be done.

[34:02] very valuable. >> Yeah.

[34:04] » All right. [snorts] So, over the next week, please uh send any other feedbacks

[34:07] you have to to uh >> you have any other questions to uh the

[34:12] to Kristen so that we can uh get that off to the services so we can get that

[34:18] done. Sher, do you have any other input? >> Um not at this time. Um I'm going to

[34:23] look over the um application some more. Thank you.

[34:27] » Super. All right. Any other discussion on this for now?

[34:34] No, thank you. >> Okay,

[34:37] moving on to item number two, a council to consider the proposed 2027 budget

[34:42] process calendar. So, think you've all been

[34:47] Sher, were you involved last year for budget?

[34:50] » No, I don't think so. >> No, I was on building and planning at

[34:54] that time. This is a fairly fairly standard budget calendar. It we uh it

[35:00] includes the various hearings. Um the meeting dates um everything takes place

[35:06] on our regular council days. So um one of the council days is um also um

[35:13] set up as a workshop so we can talk at length um about the budget. I know that

[35:18] was uh something that came up a couple of times having some longer discussions

[35:22] about the budget. >> [snorts]

[35:26] » I do know that council member Hansen be able to be here for that work. I don't

[35:30] know if you guys wanted to discuss picking another council date, making a

[35:34] special meeting workshop be something to discuss tonight.

[35:42] » Think about it and not discuss it tonight if we want to switch.

[35:45] » Yeah, I don't think uh let's see. As far as postings,

[35:51] when you have to have those in the newspaper.

[35:54] » So, for the 21st, I'm going to have it in by the 8th of October.

[35:57] » So, there my apologies. Um, by the 24th of September, I have to have that one

[36:03] in. >> So, we'll have another council meeting

[36:06] by then. >> Yes.

[36:08] » Yeah. Our next council meeting with the 16th.

[36:12] » So, yeah, we do have time to think about it. [snorts]

[36:15] » Thank you. before we put public notice out for those hearings.

[36:22] And just keep in mind, not everything on the some of that stuff on that calendar

[36:26] is for city staff, right? It talks about getting things off to the newspaper and

[36:31] um there's also when to expect my the letter from the mayor regarding the

[36:36] budget and things like that. So, >> okay.

[36:41] » Okay. All right. Well, we'll have this on the agenda then for the next meeting,

[36:44] too. So, please double check your calendars and make sure that you're not

[36:48] uh absent [snorts] for any of those vital the vital uh meetings um in

[36:53] particular.

[37:18] lost volume.

[38:14] So, it says lost volume. Can you guys hear me?

[38:29] People

[38:42] are getting bored listening to nothing.

[38:47] » Okay, you guys are back on. >> Okay, I'm gonna hit the button again.

[38:52] Hit a different button again because you're probably

[38:54] » Yeah, I know. But she can hear me. No, >> she can hear me, but she's not going to

[38:59] be able to hear the other people. >> Okay.

[39:03] » All right. Sherry, can you hear us now? >> Yes, I can hear you now. I lost it lost

[39:10] all volume. >> Jason, can you address her? Can she hear

[39:13] you? >> Hi, Sherry.

[39:15] » Hi, Jason. >> Oh, good.

[39:18] » If I'm on the wrong audio device, these microphones don't work and it's just the

[39:22] laptop. All

[39:27] right. So, that's never happened before. Okay.

[39:32] So, moving on. We were talking about the budget calendar and having it on the

[39:36] agenda for next meeting. Okay. >> Got it.

[39:43] » Uh, last item, uh, council to review and discuss short subdivision code updates.

[39:49] So, we have here is suggestions. Um Darren actually uh put it together with

[39:54] some uh recommendations. So the idea here is to go through it tonight um step

[40:01] by step, make sure council understand what's in it, make sure you agree that

[40:05] it's the right step, and then we'll send it to the consultants um to

[40:12] make sure that uh it fits all the standards that it needs to. We just

[40:16] didn't want to send it to the consultants first until we made sure

[40:18] that the council um thought it fit. So So Darren, take us you take us away.

[40:27] » Yeah. So uh while we reviewing our short

[40:32] subdivisions, we noticed that our codes in the short sub subdivisions are the

[40:37] same as the long subdivision. So we decided we wanted to remove some of the

[40:42] requirements for short subdivision. uh requirements that we're looking at

[40:47] removing are sidewalks required and uh illumination.

[40:54] Instead, we'll go with a uh giving them several different options. instead of a

[40:58] sidewalk and illumination, they'll leave and

[41:03] whatever the engineer and I decide to leave room for, uh, easement or right

[41:09] away for future sidewalks, but they will still be required to do gutter and a

[41:15] rolled [snorts] curb. So, we'll still have that appeal that curb appeal.

[41:21] Um, as far as roads, [clears throat] uh, it'll either be HMA or we've given

[41:26] them the option of, depending on soils, we'll give them the option of, uh, chip

[41:31] seal. We have a hard surface for emergency vehicles and trucks like that.

[41:36] But the chip sealing will be more like on lighter traveled streets. Your

[41:40] heavier travel streets will probably be required at HMA. So,

[41:48] those were some of the major changes. Now when you say sidewalks you is that

[41:54] also along 7th >> D and A.

[42:00] » So yeah. So our >> like what they're what they're asking.

[42:03] » Yeah. So 506 um is kind of our boulevard.

[42:08] » Anything on 506 and then A and D are our main arterial streets.

[42:14] » Anything on those we will have block requirements

[42:18] because those are our main avenues. So, there's a chapter there's a section

[42:23] in the chapter that covers that. Um, I am looking at adding in here

[42:32] to uh do 100 blocks of that because like Spencer brought up like where they're at

[42:37] down there on a street, it's not paved, it's gravel.

[42:40] » I wouldn't want to require sidewalks to nowhere

[42:44] » right >> down at that end. So I'm thinking maybe

[42:46] from fifth to the sewer plant, you know, that section D street on the farm to D

[42:54] street >> because isn't that the end of the

[42:56] historic >> Yeah.

[42:57] » this anyway. So >> but do we but do we need to write

[43:01] exceptions like that into the code or could we just allow no

[43:05] » like verbally allow like you know you can come to this table and have this

[43:08] conversation rational. I mean and we have the variance option and stuff like

[43:13] that but >> it's something we can talk about

[43:16] » but if you leave it open like that then you let personalities get in play. If

[43:21] you say well we may approve something and like for something that you don't

[43:28] want to approve says leaving something open like that leaves it open to back

[43:33] door deals. >> That's what variances are for.

[43:36] » That's why we said the variance. Yeah. But appearance is more cost to the

[43:40] developer. >> 350 bucks or something. It's not crazy.

[43:43] I mean, it's a developer, >> but it's still more cost. And so why

[43:46] have it open like that when it's [clears throat] left open to

[43:49] » the problem is not every project is is the same. And so you set one set of

[43:53] standards without any any way to um you know fit a certain area. Um you know,

[43:59] you kind of box yourself in. So you need to have flex some flexibility.

[44:04] » But I can hear both of these. I mean this is very rational what you're

[44:07] saying. both of you, right? And so I I could see us adding what you're saying

[44:12] to A and D Street. It's only two streets that we're saying we want sidewalks on,

[44:16] so we don't want sidewalks from fifth to the end of the road. I I mean, it's easy

[44:20] for us to add that if it makes it feel more

[44:24] » lothifer owns three larger lots down there. If he

[44:28] wanted to cut those up and give them to his grandkids or something, then he

[44:33] would have to go through the short subdivision process, put in sidewalks

[44:36] down past Daily, >> which he's he's tried to subdivide that,

[44:40] but it's there's a lot of wet land down there,

[44:43] » right? But if you wanted to, you would have to go through that process down by

[44:46] your grandma and grandpa's place and he would have to put in sidewalks. It would

[44:50] be mandatory according to this. Did they just say short sidewalks for examp

[44:58] but but >> D street the uh gravel starts at fifth

[45:03] so it' probably be stopped that >> he's between fifth and sixth

[45:07] » so he's across from well kind of where your grand

[45:11] » so those three lots if he wanted to do that he would have to go through that

[45:16] process and put in sidewalks >> or or we give him a varian

[45:20] bearing. >> So that's something to keep in mind.

[45:23] It's not just bigger developers that would be impacted. It's smaller people

[45:28] that there's a lot of big lots in this town. You know, where I grew up on a

[45:32] street that's past, so it may not apply, but um there's nine or 10 acres down

[45:38] there. If somebody want to cut that up, they'd have to put sidewalks in because

[45:41] it's a street. >> Well, [snorts and clears throat] this is

[45:43] for this is only for short subdivisions. So nine nine or less parcels, right? So,

[45:49] we're talking about very small developments, not the larger ones.

[45:52] Larger ones would have to >> Well, they could cut that up into four

[45:55] or five lots. That's what I'm saying. Keep that in mind that larger lots, you

[46:01] know, and in in our case, we have we wanted to cut off two acres and get rid

[46:06] of it. We would be on seven. We would have to put in sidewalks that go

[46:10] nowhere. And then you get to Fertile Smith's place and he doesn't have one or

[46:16] whoever lives there now and it it would drop down to nothing. So it it kind of

[46:24] cuts things up. You've got a sidewalk and you don't have a sidewalk and you

[46:27] have a gravel road and you have a well that kind of goes [snorts] that's the

[46:31] way it is everywhere. I mean if you look at Windlock right now their sidewalk

[46:34] goes and then stops and sidewalk ends. And I know in Vancouver there was

[46:41] um sidewalk ending locations where just that developer took

[46:48] it to this and then the next developer takes it.

[46:52] » When that old house right here gets torn down and it's rebuilt, they have to put

[46:56] in the sidewalk kind of thing. >> Yeah.

[46:59] On 506 though, you have like where James Wans are that place, you know, that's

[47:06] going to border 506 unless he puts in Sixth Street and comes off of Sixth

[47:11] Street. And ours is so high the sidewalk would have to be up on the on the bank

[47:17] instead of down by the road. So then they'd have to jump off the bank to get

[47:22] » No, you'd have to put a bridge in. [laughter and snorts]

[47:26] » One thing you do is an overlay. zone separately, too. That would that would

[47:30] do it, >> right?

[47:31] » Just like your historic district is. >> Okay, I got us a little off topic. Okay.

[47:37] I like your idea of putting if it's just two streets and we're going to say past

[47:41] the gravel, we don't need to have I like that idea.

[47:44] » Did planning commission weigh in on this?

[47:46] » No. Okay. You're first. >> Okay. I just I always have to remember

[47:50] the process. Is there any You said these are some of the major changes. Are there

[47:53] any other major changes that you want to highlight for us?

[47:56] » Uh, no. Those were the major major changes.

[47:59] » What Darren, when you were explaining the the sidewalk paintings, did you say

[48:03] that they still have to put in the rolls curb?

[48:06] » Yeah, we're still going to do curb and gut.

[48:09] » So, the options for curb for curb. So, the idea is if you I wish I I didn't uh

[48:14] Are there pictures? Did you put pictures on that?

[48:16] » No, I did not put the picture. >> Okay. And I didn't put the protector up.

[48:19] There are um some visuals, but >> a roll curve. You have the option of a

[48:24] rolled curve or a mountable curve. So, if you've not if the So, the

[48:29] mountable curve is a regular regular square one you're familiar with. Um, but

[48:33] there's other ones that are more uh >> Yeah, they're rolled, but

[48:37] » it usually rolls up to a sidewalk. So, it would just be on the property line.

[48:42] Well, not on the property line. It'd be >> city right away.

[48:46] » It'd be in the city right away. And then there would be room between that and the

[48:50] rightway line for future. >> So, like a street is right now.

[48:55] So like 8 Street is right now, right? >> I get because right now it goes curb and

[49:02] then grass, but that's still where the sidewalk should

[49:06] » go. Okay. >> Maybe we can receive pictures after.

[49:10] » Yeah, I'll send those out. I have some >> good ones about what it would look like,

[49:15] but I mean, we've all seen pictures before of what that looks like in a

[49:18] neighborhood that doesn't have uh sidewalks and it looks pretty sharp.

[49:23] So, >> so who's the administrator that makes

[49:26] these decisions? Is that you? >> It says administrator. Is it Darren?

[49:32] » Right. It'd be the building the building department and in conjunction with the

[49:38] city engineer. >> Just those two,

[49:42] » right? >> Not the planner. Are you these people?

[49:46] But usually like they work in conjunction with the planner, but some

[49:49] of the the individual construction items are usually outside of the planner

[49:54] scope.

[49:58] » Is that the for the variances also? >> Do you is it just you that takes care of

[50:03] the variances? >> Me and the engineer.

[50:05] » You and Okay. >> So used to do variances.

[50:12] » A question on that. depends on >> something that Cindy brought up a long

[50:17] time ago is we got the kids walking down the streets and stuff like that because

[50:21] we don't have any sidewalks. If we don't have them put in sidewalks now,

[50:28] [snorts] when do we have them put sidewalks in in the future? And who's

[50:31] responsible for that? Because the builder is no no longer around.

[50:37] See what I'm saying? Because do do we just want streets in our city with no

[50:42] sidewalks in it? >> You know,

[50:45] » there's no there's hardly any sidewalks. >> This is a this is a

[50:51] it's kind of a catch22 situation where if we if we start if we require

[50:56] everything, so you got a short subdivision, someone comes in, they want

[50:59] to build five houses [snorts] and we require the kitchen sink of of

[51:04] neighborhood development, right? where you've got lamp posts and sidewalks and

[51:08] curves and gutters and paved streets. It with the cost of construction nowadays,

[51:14] » there's not enough profit in those five houses for them to come in and build all

[51:19] that stuff. It just doesn't pan out. And we've heard this um and we've heard this

[51:25] from multiple sources. It just it just doesn't pan out. So unless you have a

[51:29] really large development and then of course then um you can build all that

[51:33] stuff and still have enough money uh to to actually do it. So by the city

[51:37] requiring all this stuff, we're we are stifling um

[51:42] » building the these developments. And so so what do you do, right? Do you do do

[51:47] you keep requiring it and then never have anything but really large

[51:51] subdivisions or do you kind of pair down these situations where you've got

[51:56] smaller developments so that we can actually encourage that um and then

[52:02] limit the types of things that go in. So, like Darren said, in the planning

[52:07] process, we would still include enough rideway

[52:11] um so that someday sidewalks could be put in whether it's the city pay for it

[52:16] or we get grants or whatever. Um so, it can happen. Um it just wouldn't happen

[52:22] now and so [clears throat] you've got to pick now or later.

[52:27] » We we just had a speaker though remind us that fee and loo is an option for

[52:31] developers, right? So what that means is that there's a certain amount of money

[52:34] that they give to us and we put in a fund for city improvement. So that means

[52:38] if developer A does this part, developer B does this part, developer C, and they

[52:42] all put in their individual sidewalks, it ends up looking like a mess because

[52:45] we have one this way, one that way, one that way. If we all ask them for fee and

[52:48] lie up, when we get enough money for a strip of street, then we oversee it. We

[52:53] do the whole thing at one time and we oversee it, but we have them give us

[52:56] money. That's so I think the enlu is a good option for a city this size because

[53:02] it it you know helps them avoid those costs right now and helps us grow our

[53:06] city in the future when it's appropriate.

[53:09] » Did I understand that correctly? >> Can I make a comment on that to John too

[53:13] is that you just like Joe said it is a it is a fine balance. So, I can tell you

[53:19] that 100 years ago, I bought this house in Millsboro with a really great big

[53:23] backyard. And I went to the city and I said, "Hey, I want to cut this in half."

[53:28] And they said, "We don't want you doing that." And I go, "Well, you guys have

[53:32] 6,000 square foot lot minimums and if I cut this in half, that's 10,000 square

[53:37] feet." And they came back to me and said, "Ask us for variance and we'll

[53:40] give you two 5,000 square feet lots." Now, why did they do that? because they

[53:45] want the tax revenue from the increase of the people and it was it was fairly

[53:50] what's the word it it synced up with what kind of the rest of the

[53:54] neighborhood plan was but back back to Joe saying if you don't get development

[53:58] through some of these things then you end up not getting the revenue either

[54:02] and I understand the balance between doing it nicely and and then charging

[54:07] all these fees but like he said kind of like it's kind of like cost

[54:12] uh cost. Um, oh gosh, sharing the cost between the

[54:18] amount of homes. That's why it just makes sense. You can't share the cost

[54:21] between five homes and come out good. But like like Joe said, if you if you do

[54:25] type 100 homes, that percentage of each home's cost is divided out into those

[54:30] things and that's why it makes it it makes it more more affordable.

[54:34] » Well, the reason I was asking that is back in the day we lived in Sherwood,

[54:38] Oregon. I bought a piece of property that had a house on it. We subdivided

[54:43] it, you know, to put my in-laws next door and we were required to put in a

[54:48] driveway and a sidewalk to extend to the end of the property and still paid an8

[54:54] $8,500 um beautifification for the city and

[54:59] that was back in '94. >> That's because they're in Oregon.

[55:03] » I was going to say they're brilliant. We didn't do that. Let's charge that. The

[55:08] other the [laughter] other thing that you'll find is that in the in the more

[55:11] populated areas there are more requirements because they realize the

[55:14] demand for housing is bigger. And that's another thing that you end up with here,

[55:17] you know, and and it was brought up in one of the previous meetings. Like if it

[55:21] becomes too expensive, people aren't going to get going to move to Bader.

[55:24] Well, what was brought up is that people of Bader can't afford houses. We're not

[55:27] talking about people of Bader. We're talking about attracting somebody from

[55:30] whatever, Castle Rock or some other area that's being priced out of their home or

[55:35] wants to get more out in the country and they want to live here. Those prices

[55:39] have to stay, you know, attractive to get people here. And and I just tell

[55:45] you, this has already been talked about, but I have a a beautiful manufactured

[55:49] home in Toledo, you know, on an 8,400 foot lot, and it's I mean, we we pit set

[55:56] it. We got 24 24 garage and it's a great little piece of property. We're having a

[56:00] hard time getting around 380 out of that right now and we shouldn't be but you

[56:05] know what prices have adjusted down a little too right now. We know that we we

[56:08] we look at the market and and because of interest rates things are jumping down.

[56:13] I think the Fed's doing it on purpose and I think they are. They they want to

[56:17] slow down that freight train but with that the developer still the cost of

[56:20] your materials and your labor kind of going up. So it's squeezing that margin.

[56:25] So that's what has to be taken into consideration. It's just it's it's just

[56:29] not a super easy deal. So when we see some of the the manufactured homes

[56:33] around here that are selling for 320, 330, it doesn't really matter if they're

[56:38] super nice or if it's just a brand new space where people live in there kind of

[56:41] going, "Hey, I can afford to live there." So they're going to do it. But

[56:44] if we drive up those costs, we won't attract that development to bigger.

[56:48] That's just the realities of it. So it's it's a catch 22. And I get it. But a big

[56:53] large commercial builder can he's got a combination of things where it's got

[56:57] this crew that works for him, you know, and all these other things and systems

[57:00] and programs and they can absorb that a little bit better than a smaller.

[57:05] » Am I getting interrupted you earlier? I didn't mean to. Did you still want to

[57:08] say something? >> So Joe, what are we being asked to do?

[57:12] Thank you. >> Um, well,

[57:16] the idea was to take take a look at this like Darren said, he summarized uh what

[57:20] it is and in a nutshell. It it um doesn't require sidewalks in these

[57:26] smaller developments. It doesn't require uh lamp posts in the smaller

[57:30] developments. It does um officially open up options for different kinds of curve.

[57:37] Um it does open up options for chip seal roads instead of as asphalt roads. Uh

[57:42] these are all things that um still gives the city a really good neighborhood uh

[57:47] without um high cost to the developer and opens the door keeps the doors open

[57:52] later so that we can put those things in if we need to. So

[57:56] » didn't that's what I was going to say the so the curb so that we have the room

[58:02] to do it later. All of the buildings are going off the property line though,

[58:07] right?

[58:10] » Yes. Yeah. So the setbacks from the property line, not from the improved

[58:13] road service. >> Yeah. So So that area for like 10th

[58:18] Street for instance, that's still there for us to do whatever we're going to do

[58:26] to it. So, I'm not quite sure what we're meaning

[58:34] they have to have that area there, but like

[58:37] » it's >> I mean it's our our land. They build

[58:39] their house in >> there, but

[58:41] » we leave that gap between the curb and the sidewalk and it's usually going to

[58:46] be 8 to 10 feet and it's not just for sidewalk, it's for utilities and stuff

[58:50] like that. So, >> it was more just uh we're just making

[58:54] sure council understood that um there the neighborhood will be built

[59:00] in such a way that these improvements can be added later

[59:04] without issues with property property lines. So we just wanted to make sure it

[59:08] was clear that that could happen. >> Okay.

[59:12] » So are we having people trying to build on the property line?

[59:19] Didn't you have a neighbor neighbor come in here and was complaining about that

[59:22] she built that fence if we were going to widen the road there

[59:25] » and pave the road there alongside your place. Her fence was almost all the way

[59:30] out to the street and it was on the city right away.

[59:34] » Um I don't remember

[59:37] » when when when you brought it up for us to approve the city street. Huh?

[59:43] » F Street. Yeah. her her fence was

[59:46] » that street's a good example of what not to do.

[59:48] » Yeah. >> Right.

[59:50] » Yeah. But [clears throat] I don't >> know what else to say about that.

[59:54] » But to be totally honest with you, and I can say it because I live on that

[59:57] street, if you build your fence, >> sorry,

[1:00:01] » on the road or in the middle of the road, that's your problem.

[1:00:05] You need to stay in your boundaries. >> Well, yeah. I mean, you could legally I

[1:00:09] think the city could come out and just give them 30 days to remove it. quite

[1:00:12] frankly not on their property. >> F Street's a bigger issue. There is no

[1:00:16] way. >> It's a private. It's a private drive.

[1:00:18] » Yeah. I was going to say, let's just use a different example.

[1:00:21] » Property lines. >> Oh, no. I like to talk about F Street.

[1:00:23] » No talking about F Street. >> No F Street.

[1:00:26] » We cannot be here all night. We cannot [laughter]

[1:00:30] » never My opinion is that you can't solve all those problems here tonight. That's

[1:00:33] what variances are for. And you examine one of those individually and then you

[1:00:37] move forward on it. The bottom line is we can talk about infinite possibilities

[1:00:40] tonight and it's not going to resolve it. But

[1:00:42] » question just one second. Can I ask Darren for

[1:00:45] just clarification? But Darren, what you're saying is you can't build a a

[1:00:48] building on that property line, but we could put a fence up and then if

[1:00:52] somebody wanted to come in and put a sidewalk, we say move your fence.

[1:00:55] » We have setbacks. >> Okay. I just wanted to make sure the

[1:00:57] rideway line is to their property line. >> Yeah.

[1:01:00] » The front yard setbacks are 20 ft. >> Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Go ahead.

[1:01:04] » No. Um, again, we're on Seventh Street, so if we had talked about taking that

[1:01:09] two acres that we wanted to cut off and give it to our oldest son when he gets

[1:01:12] out of the Navy this year and just let him have it, but he still we still have

[1:01:18] to put a sidewalk in because he's he's going to want to build a house on that

[1:01:21] two acres and it says improved with a new building. So, if we gave him that

[1:01:27] two acres, it's still a subdivision. We're still cutting one lot into two.

[1:01:32] And if he builds a building, build a house,

[1:01:37] he'd have he'd have to put in the It's still a subdivision.

[1:01:41] » This is where the variance comes in. >> Yeah. So again, it's a variance.

[1:01:44] » I mean, yeah. I mean, if it just didn't make sense to put a sidewalk in front of

[1:01:49] one house up on the hill by itself right now, you know, we probably would not be

[1:01:53] required. >> So that's our bottom. I mean, we're

[1:01:56] irrational sometimes, but hopefully not that irrational.

[1:01:59] » [laughter] >> And that's where the flexibility in the

[1:02:02] code needs to come in so that >> when you see ridiculous situations like

[1:02:06] that, you know, it can be >> Yeah.

[1:02:09] » But that was you had to that's why I was wanting you to do some leway.

[1:02:15] » Um so anyway, so tonight uh what we're asking for council is are there any

[1:02:19] necessarily any object objective to this these things? Um obviously we can it

[1:02:24] still opens. We still have the ability of adding some fee and loo type

[1:02:29] situations and things like that. Um, we can but as far as these code changes,

[1:02:36] are we >> I like them. I think they look good. And

[1:02:39] thank you Darren for doing them. >> I'd like Darren's recommendation. Do you

[1:02:45] do you want them approved as they are or do you want us to change that one?

[1:02:48] » I do want to change the road like Fifth Street South.

[1:02:53] » Thank you. So, so we can uh then we'll get these sent off to the consultants so

[1:02:57] we can get a real draft to you. Not that this draft isn't good, but

[1:03:01] » thanks >> with that change.

[1:03:04] » Yes. >> Perfect. Thank you.

[1:03:05] » All right. Super. Thank you. >> Good stuff. All right. Uh public comment

[1:03:11] on any items at all. >> You want to say 6 Street for D Street?

[1:03:19] » Jen, can I ask is this the comment you emailed me? Um, so there is the packet

[1:03:24] and this is just a request to look at that packet. Okay.

[1:03:29] » Is that one? >> They all have it in front of them. I

[1:03:31] just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing.

[1:03:33] » So this is a public comment to look at your public comment.

[1:03:38] » Yes, it is.

[1:03:44] » Good evening, mayor and council members. I'm asking the council to act with

[1:03:48] urgency on the agricultural and land use code changes already submitted because

[1:03:51] the impacts are no longer theoretical. They're already affecting local

[1:03:55] families, farms, and investment decisions. In the July response to my

[1:03:58] questions, the city stated that Vader does not intend to restrict lawful

[1:04:01] agricultural uses through annexation and acknowledge the importance of local

[1:04:04] farms and nurseries. Yet, under the current code and its interpretation,

[1:04:08] we're already experiencing real consequences. We've delayed purchasing a

[1:04:11] greenhouse because a new greenhouse might be treated as an expansion

[1:04:14] requiring a conditional use permit with associated fees and a public hearing.

[1:04:17] That delay has already cost us the opportunity to take advantage of a

[1:04:20] time-sensitive promotion that may now mean another growing season without a

[1:04:23] greenhouse limiting what we can start, protect, and produce next year. We also

[1:04:27] do not have clear guidance on whether preparing and planting additional

[1:04:29] agricultural ground for next season will trigger another cup. The city's response

[1:04:33] refers to the expansion of an area already established for agriculture, but

[1:04:37] does not define that area objectively. For working farm, uncertainty about

[1:04:40] whether we can prepare a field, invest in seed, or expand production directly

[1:04:44] affects planning for the coming season. These impacts extend beyond agriculture

[1:04:47] because we cannot currently move forward with an ADU that we had planned without

[1:04:50] city sewer or water. We are now considering outside care options for an

[1:04:54] aging family member in declining health rather than creating housing to support

[1:04:58] them for support for them on the farm. These are all timesensitive decisions. A

[1:05:03] missed planting season cannot be recovered later. A purchase opportunity

[1:05:06] can disappear. Decisions about a care of an aging family member cannot remain

[1:05:09] unresolved indefinitely. The broader effect is also economic. When residents

[1:05:13] cannot confidently invest in their homes, farms, and land, the projects

[1:05:16] that could support local builders, contractors, suppliers, equipment

[1:05:20] dealers, and trades are delayed or abandoned. Money that can be invested

[1:05:23] locally is instead spent on services, facilities, and resources outside of

[1:05:26] Bader. We understood the annexation would bring regulatory changes. What's

[1:05:30] difficult is being subject to those restrictions before the city has

[1:05:32] established clear objective standards for appropriate rural and agricultural

[1:05:35] properties it chose to bring under its jurisdiction. The city has already

[1:05:39] acknowledged months ago that was considering allowing agriculture as a

[1:05:42] fully permitted use in the areas without city utilities and creating more

[1:05:45] objective agricultural standards. I ask the council to please move these

[1:05:49] discussions into action. We are not asking to be exempt from building code

[1:05:53] setbacks, critical area protections, fire safety, or other reasonable

[1:05:56] regulations. We're asking Bader to adopt clear, workable standards that do not

[1:05:59] unnecessarily eliminate development opportunities that Washington law

[1:06:03] otherwise supports. For example, under RCW 3678 6811C, qualifying jurisdiction

[1:06:10] must allow up to two ADUs on single family lots. Vader's restriction of ADUs

[1:06:14] to properties only with public sewer or water effectively excludes many

[1:06:18] residents from that opportunity with large portions of the city remaining

[1:06:21] unserved. Vader should create lawful ADU pathway for those properties rather than

[1:06:25] allowing lack of municipal utilities to function as a blanket prohibition.

[1:06:29] Months ago, we were told that our farms and nursery were important to Vader and

[1:06:32] we're asking the city to de demonstrate that commitment by addressing the

[1:06:36] unintended consequences that codes are already creating. I respectfully ask the

[1:06:40] council please prioritize these amendments before more families lose

[1:06:43] opportunities, delay investments, or are forced to meet their agricultural

[1:06:46] housing and caregiving needs outside of the committee. Thank you. Or community.

[1:06:49] Thank you. Thank you.

[1:06:53] Mayor, >> I have a question.

[1:06:54] » Yeah. >> Part of what I'm hearing from residents

[1:06:57] is that the city said there would be, you know, some kind of 5-year window

[1:07:01] that would protect all of their current activities. Then I'm hearing residents

[1:07:05] say, well, no, I went to a different meeting and was told that no longer

[1:07:08] exists. And then I'm getting comments, you know, in this moment that say like

[1:07:12] this is urgent because it's interfering with my life. And you know, I sort of

[1:07:15] thought, you know, if there's a 5year window, we have time to do right by

[1:07:19] these residents. And that was part of my argument. And I'm also feeling a little

[1:07:24] bit confused because I'll hear one moment I spoke to someone who said,

[1:07:27] "Nope, the ADU is ADU issue has been resolved. U residents are happy." And

[1:07:32] now I'm hearing maybe that's not fully the case from a resident's perspective.

[1:07:36] And I don't really know. We've never done anything this big. So I don't

[1:07:40] really know what the clear pop forward is, right? I don't think that every

[1:07:44] council member should be expected to investigate this in detail and be able

[1:07:48] to answer this and help understand it and and you know look up the state law

[1:07:53] federal law you know let's not get crazy and county and city laws. So, I guess

[1:07:58] what I'm asking is, you know, how do we get clarity on some of these items so

[1:08:04] that residents feel like they have more clarity? So, I feel like I have more

[1:08:07] clarity. You know, do we bring James back and say, "These are a couple

[1:08:11] questions. Do we get them together and send an email?" I feel just at a loss

[1:08:16] when a resident says to me, "That fiery protection you said is there is not

[1:08:19] there or someone else is telling me it's not there." I'm sort of like, I don't

[1:08:22] know the answer, you know? And so what is the best way forward to be at least

[1:08:28] thoughtful about these questions

[1:08:33] » or maybe we can talk about it after and you can help me understand. But

[1:08:36] » the city hasn't received any applications or requests for any new

[1:08:43] construction or any activities in the UG since the annexation,

[1:08:48] » okay, >> was completed. Okay.

[1:08:50] » And so no one's been denied because no one's asked.

[1:08:53] » Okay. [snorts] And the questions that have

[1:08:56] come to the city, the city is responding to those questions. [snorts]

[1:09:02] » Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we have I mean, we've

[1:09:06] » I would definitely look at your >> look this over. Definitely.

[1:09:11] » So, Gemma, I have some questions that I'll reach out to James and see if we

[1:09:14] can get to the bottom of some of the conversations.

[1:09:17] » James is the one that said it was a misunderstanding on a fiveyear for me. I

[1:09:21] don't know about other residents, but that's where

[1:09:23] » y we'll continue the conversation. >> And with regard to um ADUs, the planning

[1:09:29] committee spoke at length about ADUs at the last meeting. Were you there with

[1:09:34] » um and uh and so um the issues regarding um our code saying that it needs to be

[1:09:41] hooked to water and sewer and things like that. Obviously, when you're a half

[1:09:46] mile from water and sewer, that's that's not a requirement. And so, um, if anyone

[1:09:50] did apply that, you probably would just get a variance.

[1:09:53] » A variance. >> But, um,

[1:09:55] » are you are you Rafter 7? >> Raptor 7.

[1:09:58] » Rafter 7 farm. Where where are you? >> We're just up on the road. Right next to

[1:10:03] Weiss. >> Oh, okay. Right.

[1:10:06] » Um, so, um, >> yeah, on the front side, the orchard's

[1:10:12] in the back. >> We don't have to have her give her

[1:10:14] address [snorts] on [laughter] >> I I was confused.

[1:10:20] got she's got farming property. I think that kind of

[1:10:23] » that narrows it down, right? >> Um but yeah, with ADUs, it was just got

[1:10:27] that at length at the planning committee meeting and James was already putting

[1:10:31] together um some adjustments that would fix these discre discrepancies,

[1:10:36] » right? >> And so it was just obvious or at least

[1:10:40] written down instead of being this just doesn't even make sense anymore. So

[1:10:44] » So a lot of that work on it already. If you want an AD, bring it to us like

[1:10:48] right. I mean, we can have a variance that you don't need to be connected to

[1:10:52] water. >> Is that going to make it a

[1:10:53] non-conforming structure then that turns into another legal?

[1:10:57] » Again, I don't want to say exactly legally what [clears throat] it is or

[1:11:00] not. That's what James is for. Um, but we have an application.

[1:11:04] » Yeah, we need an application. >> I don't know. I I can't say.

[1:11:08] » Well, >> I mean, you're not going to be denied

[1:11:10] because you can't hook up to >> public utilities when you're a half mile

[1:11:14] away, >> right? Well, that's part of our

[1:11:17] frustration is that that's what the code currently says. So,

[1:11:22] » can can I can I ask about the greenhouse situation?

[1:11:26] » The greenhouse. So, we were looking at one of the little Genesis buildings, but

[1:11:30] it's a larger building in the code or the response the July response from

[1:11:34] James. He said that the conditional use permit would be for the agricultural

[1:11:40] use of that land and anything that was to expand or grow that would need to go

[1:11:48] through a public public hearing with the hearing examiner which will require fees

[1:11:53] [clears throat] to be able to have that conditional use

[1:11:57] approved to be expanded because it is still a non-conforming use since it's a

[1:12:02] residential lot and not an agriculture lot. So my request has been instead of

[1:12:05] putting agriculture into um the non-conforming

[1:12:13] uses, put it into the conforming uses for R1 is been my request. So that way

[1:12:18] we don't have to worry about the concerns of if our field is we're

[1:12:23] tilling a space and increasing the intensity of putting tillage where our

[1:12:27] hay field is so we can put gar. It's a big I was going to say we don't

[1:12:32] we can't solve individual residents comments during public comment but I do

[1:12:35] think we like we're all >> I can get an understanding of it as

[1:12:38] well. >> Yeah, we we hear you and we'll continue

[1:12:41] the conversation. >> Stupidest question probably. How do you

[1:12:45] have an ADU without utilities? >> Well, they can

[1:12:50] » they can put septic in well >> but not

[1:12:54] » currently. It says it must connect to public

[1:12:57] utilities for >> again our code. Yeah.

[1:13:00] » Doesn't make sense because it's

[1:13:04] » ads are brand new. >> It's being worked on.

[1:13:07] » We're in the city. We have a well subject. So, if we put an ADU, it would

[1:13:10] have to be well subject, but we're currently

[1:13:17] » there things that need to get polished. Like I said, it was discussed at night

[1:13:20] » or in the bill >> probably be on the topic of the planning

[1:13:23] committee next week even. Maybe if it's so far distance from public utilities,

[1:13:28] then it's exempt from that and then you could allow them on the subject.

[1:13:31] » Yeah, >> we have lots we've already had lots of

[1:13:35] conversations. >> It's Darren says it's already on next

[1:13:37] week's agenda. >> Yeah, we've already had lots of we know

[1:13:40] what the options are. I think it's just >> it's already being worked on.

[1:13:43] » It's process. Okay. >> Other public comments tonight? Anybody?

[1:13:48] Yeah, I have I have uh some input on the >> curb curbs and gutters. Um you got to

[1:13:56] take in consideration you're not going to put the water in the ditch now.

[1:14:00] You're going to be running down the street. So the city's going to have to

[1:14:04] provide some kind of collection system which will cost the taxpayers. That's

[1:14:10] something to think about. And also um behind the school there's the wetlands

[1:14:17] area which we don't really have wet anymore. That's a area to look at so far

[1:14:22] as parking for the 4th of July. Thanks. >> Thanks.

[1:14:31] » I had a comment. Sorry I've had my hand raised but

[1:14:36] » hi. I would [clears throat] be there but I don't think you want my pestilence.

[1:14:40] I'm currently ill. Um, at any rate, um, so I

[1:14:46] kind of was wanting to back up what Jen was saying because one of these years we

[1:14:52] [clears throat] would like to finish our high tunnel. We have the frame. Um, we

[1:14:57] just have to finish getting it uh, anchored to the ground

[1:15:01] and then eventually plastic and whatnot. So obviously I want to make sure stuff

[1:15:06] doesn't affect me to be able to continue on that route. [clears throat] So I want

[1:15:12] to kind of just back up Jan on her comments as well. And then additionally

[1:15:18] on a different subject, kind of going back towards public events

[1:15:24] and whatnot, um my husband and I did attend um for

[1:15:29] about an hour and a half the um event that they had at Mc Murphy Park.

[1:15:35] [clears throat] And although I was disappointed in my

[1:15:39] husband's behavior, I was also quite dismayed and disappointed

[1:15:44] how the city council or not sorry city council but the security that they had

[1:15:51] behaved. It was I kind of got towards I got brought into

[1:15:57] it at the tail end because I was in my son's car. He has a classic car. It

[1:16:02] didn't want to start when we wanted to leave. Although it had started all day

[1:16:05] long, we think the car is possessed. But at any rate, um by the time I was

[1:16:12] brought into alteration, I was quite shocked at the security's

[1:16:17] behavior, um having been in the medical field for several several years. I've

[1:16:24] had deescalation training and I was quite shocked at how they were

[1:16:29] escalating the situation again and again and again when all my husband wanted to

[1:16:34] do was get our car started and leave. And

[1:16:40] today, if I'm not mistaken, all these quote unquote security guards are

[1:16:46] volunteers. And so they really honestly should have

[1:16:53] some deescalation training at a minimum. And I'm not going to

[1:16:59] annoy what's going to happen when we have all

[1:17:04] these larger events where alcohol's involved and you get an actual

[1:17:07] belligerent drug. They cannot behave the way they did with my husband who's just

[1:17:13] a pissed-off old man that his car won't start

[1:17:17] drunk and not expect it to go to so fast.

[1:17:22] So, if you want more details about what happened, I'm happy to fill you in, but

[1:17:26] I didn't >> if you call um what do you think next

[1:17:32] next week if they she called and talk to you directly

[1:17:34] » or send an email? >> Um if Le if you called and talk to city

[1:17:38] hall and uh kind of um let them know exactly what happened, we

[1:17:43] can feed that back to the event coordinators. I'm sure they would want

[1:17:46] to know. >> Yeah. Who

[1:17:48] » told us what event? >> It it was the car show this weekend.

[1:17:53] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:17:55] » Okay. Thank you for [clears throat] that. I'm sure they'll want to know.

[1:17:58] » So, just call city hall and ask to speak with whom?

[1:18:01] » Yeah. Chris Marina could take the message, too, I suppose. So, yeah, just

[1:18:05] give city hall a call, talk to uh Marina or Kristen and and and just let them

[1:18:10] know what happened so that information back.

[1:18:13] » Yeah, because Yeah, they they need more training. It it was it was it was silly.

[1:18:17] It was I was shocked by everybody's behavior. But thank you.

[1:18:22] » Thank you. Any [snorts] other public comment

[1:18:25] tonight? [clears throat]

[1:18:28] » All right. This meeting is adjourned. Oh, wait. City council comment.

[1:18:32] » Thanks. [snorts] Did you catch my face? I was like,

[1:18:34] » I wasn't going to say anything. >> Stop.

[1:18:40] » Didn't feel right. Um, I've actually looked uh I'm actually going over the

[1:18:44] the manufactured home codes that we just approved. Again, there's some things in

[1:18:48] there that I got questions about. Okay. >> And I will have I'm bringing them to the

[1:18:53] next council meeting. >> So, um,

[1:18:57] talking about lowering lowering um costs for individuals, there's things in there

[1:19:02] that don't make sense anymore. Uh,

[1:19:07] » okay. [snorts]

[1:19:10] » Would you like a my my first I the first thing that I' I've I know that's in

[1:19:15] there is the is the concrete foundation that goes all the way around the thing.

[1:19:20] Um, if it's already on a concrete pad, I don't see I wouldn't see any reason for

[1:19:27] them not to be able to use like a >> center block.

[1:19:30] » No, I think that's very costly. Hardy. Not hardy, but you know. Yeah.

[1:19:36] » Yeah. >> And because it's not touching ground,

[1:19:39] it's it's you know, I just think that there's there's things in there that can

[1:19:44] cut some costs that are unnecessary, but I want to ask

[1:19:50] the planning as to why these are that way.

[1:19:54] » Okay.

[1:19:57] Just a forewarning, >> if you have time, will you send them to

[1:20:00] the mayor in advance so we can read them because that's Thank you. If you have

[1:20:05] time, if not, we'll listen here. >> Other comments? I was reading today,

[1:20:11] city of Toledo is hosting a meeting on the 16th of

[1:20:16] September at 6:30 uh in the evening about uh earthquakes and disasters, how

[1:20:24] the communities, the cities around us would

[1:20:28] respond to them. And uh we're going to have workshop there and stuff. So that's

[1:20:32] going to be on the 16th of September over there. You know, something we've

[1:20:38] never had is a representative from uh Lewis County Department of Emergency

[1:20:42] Management come and talk to us. They're going to be there.

[1:20:45] » That would be kind of neat to to do. >> We have had that person come and say

[1:20:50] pretty much if there's a disaster, we're on our own.

[1:20:53] » Yeah. [laughter] >> So, that's why we have the gates right

[1:20:57] up at the top of the hill. >> Two schools of thought, but um

[1:21:01] » that was a joke. and they love what they do and they love

[1:21:07] to talk to you about it. >> Thanks for that.

[1:21:12] » Uh then I just really quickly want to tell people about the carousel project.

[1:21:16] The community group organizing this went to the current site up in Snowqualami

[1:21:20] last week. So now they actually understand how big this project is,

[1:21:23] which is exciting. In two weeks, we're talking to a nonprofit and asking them

[1:21:27] for their support to bring it to Vader. So we'll see how that goes. Um and we're

[1:21:32] just appreciate community support. it going to go? Where would it sit?

[1:21:36] » We'll have to think about properties that are available in the city.

[1:21:40] » Right in front of Little Crime, >> but there's that property on the corner

[1:21:44] there, you know, that has that we just got. There's also the right in the

[1:21:49] center of town, the pocket park. But I also

[1:21:53] So there's there's places >> to answer your question. It's quite

[1:21:56] large and so we'll need to have conversations about where it can go.

[1:22:00] Right now it's just in a lot of pieces. So we'll have to restore it and continue

[1:22:04] conversation. Thank you for asking. >> How because from what I understand it's

[1:22:07] a wooden carousel. Is it going to be enclosed?

[1:22:11] » Yes. >> Yep. We'll do a capital project to raise

[1:22:14] the money for a building. >> Yeah.

[1:22:16] » Yeah. It's big project way.

[1:22:21] » Yeah. An idea might be to like get one of the characters or one of the what and

[1:22:26] like put it in a a display case so people can see like what we're

[1:22:32] » I'm going to talk to local business owners to see if they'll let me put them

[1:22:34] in their businesses. Jason [laughter]

[1:22:37] » here goes four tables >> like in Portland when they paint like or

[1:22:42] something. >> Yeah, that'd be cool.

[1:22:44] » Good idea. >> We'll do all the things.

[1:22:47] » Pocket promotions. >> Thank you for asking. Yeah, cool.

[1:22:49] Thanks. That's it. I got a great idea for that little pocket. Anyway,

[1:22:54] [laughter] >> you didn't say anything. You're the last

[1:22:55] one. >> Add something.

[1:22:56] » I'm good. I'm good. >> That's a good ending.

[1:23:00] » Me, too. >> Let's go.

[1:23:03] » Do you have any input? >> You left us.

[1:23:05] » She doesn't have any input. >> Okay. Uh well, then this meeting is 7:25

[1:23:11] p.m. >> Thanks everyone. Thanks for staying.

[1:23:17] » [music]

[1:23:24] [music]

Vader City Council Meeting: 2026-09-02

Transcript