[0:11] It's 6:32. I'm going to bring the

[0:12] meeting order. Would you like to stand

[0:16] alone?

[0:21] I pledge algiance to the flag of the

[0:25] United States of America and to the

[0:27] republic for which it stands. One nation

[0:31] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[0:35] justice for all. Thank you.

[0:40] Agenda review. Is there anything on the

[0:42] agenda that anyone would like to change

[0:44] or move around?

[0:47] Um, is this a point to add for future

[0:49] agenda items, too? Was that No, we'll do

[0:52] that when we get that. Okay. All right.

[0:56] Okay. Okay. Comments from any select

[0:59] board members. Anything not on the

[1:01] agenda? I just want to say as I just

[1:04] said to Kelly, I have seen more of the

[1:06] sheriff's department in the last nine

[1:09] days than I have seen

[1:12] of our previous chief in many years many

[1:14] years.

[1:16] which makes me very happy.

[1:20] Manager, anything? Oh, I can reserve our

[1:23] report. Thank you. Citizens, anything

[1:26] not on the agenda?

[1:29] Mrs. Erison. Oh, yes. Erison. Uh, Chip

[1:34] Co wanted me to uh make sure that

[1:36] everyone knew that he had written a

[1:38] comprehensive history of the

[1:40] Weathersteel Veterans Memorial Monument,

[1:42] the Monument Committee, and the Veterans

[1:43] Committee. copies are available at the

[1:46] library and at the historical society,

[1:49] but the library's copy will be the one

[1:51] that will circulate. Anyway, he just

[1:53] wanted me to to make sure that everyone

[1:55] knew that all questions can be answered.

[1:59] Thank you.

[2:01] Anybody else?

[2:05] Review minutes from the previous

[2:06] meeting.

[2:11] Um, yes, there were

[2:15] Oh, there's one place where it says I'm

[2:16] Mr. Henderson.

[2:19] And there's one of the fireworks display

[2:25] calls for fireworks right there. Um,

[2:29] then there was something else that was

[2:32] also not grievously well, but it's

[2:36] sitting next to a long

[2:46] Motion to approve minutes. I am approve

[2:51] that minutes to mister. No m

[2:56] we approve the minutes of May 27th,

[3:00] 2025.

[3:03] There a second. I second.

[3:07] Any discussion?

[3:10] All those in favor? I I

[3:14] Oh, I know. Um,

[3:17] is Janessa Road is that still

[3:19] recognition

[3:34] fireworks display?

[3:36] Did everyone have an opportunity to

[3:38] review the memo? Any questions for me?

[3:44] Um, not in terms of this particular case

[3:47] and any broader question of fireworks.

[3:49] So, let's do this one. Okay.

[3:56] Great. Uh, the recommendation is to deny

[3:58] the application.

[4:08] It was graduation tonight. Um, yeah, he

[4:12] wasn't able to make it over here. I did

[4:15] I have been in communication with him

[4:17] and I told him I'd give him an update

[4:19] tomorrow. So

[4:27] did he did he have any comments or

[4:29] questions regarding the

[4:32] questions that

[4:34] you you post in the in the the memo?

[4:36] Yeah, there has been ongoing

[4:38] communication. Um we did a lot of

[4:40] research and um what we found is that

[4:43] Springfield is also in a similar issue.

[4:45] They haven't approved any applications

[4:47] this year. After the Supreme Court

[4:49] ruling, evidence discovered that um the

[4:53] select board only has the authority to

[4:55] approve uh supervised public displays.

[5:00] Um and this is for a a private display.

[5:08] The implication being the others can't

[5:11] be held or we just don't have any

[5:13] control of them.

[5:15] Um, according to the law, the select

[5:17] board can only approve public displays.

[5:22] This isn't a public display.

[5:37] So in in the second paragraph there, in

[5:40] accordance with 20 VSA 3132, it has been

[5:43] interpreted by the Vermont Cycling Court

[5:45] and also as guidance from the Vermont

[5:47] Division of Fire Safety directs the town

[5:50] is only authorized under title 20 of the

[5:52] Vermont statutes to issue permits for

[5:54] supervised public displays of fireworks.

[5:59] Um the way that the town attorney is

[6:01] interpreting that um is fairs holiday

[6:05] celebrations or other public gatherings,

[6:10] but this is a private display. Correct.

[6:13] So that doesn't apply.

[6:16] No. Okay.

[6:19] Um can you I understand

[6:24] back up. I think that Yeah,

[6:30] that the fact that the insurance doesn't

[6:32] appear to cover damages from from

[6:36] fireworks.

[6:38] He did contact his insurance carrier and

[6:41] he's waiting to hear back from them on

[6:43] whether they would cover it.

[6:45] And I think based on what I've

[6:50] what we've been talking about with the

[6:52] town attorney and also other towns, if

[6:55] the town granted the firework

[6:58] defleation,

[6:59] it wouldn't be following the letter of

[7:02] the law. And if something did happen, we

[7:04] could be at risk of liability if the

[7:09] damages were beyond with an insurance

[7:11] cover. So, which letter of the law would

[7:13] we not be in compliance with if we

[7:15] approved this application? It's not a

[7:18] public a supervised public display, but

[7:20] it's not a public display. It's a

[7:22] private party, right? Correct. I'm I'm

[7:25] confused. So, it's the town only has the

[7:28] authority to grant uh firework permits

[7:32] for supervised public displays. Oh, so

[7:35] we can't approve any application for

[7:36] private. Correct.

[7:41] But can we prohibit it? And is that

[7:43] based on I'm sorry. Is that based on the

[7:47] recent Supreme Court ruling? It was

[7:49] certainly our This person didn't stand a

[7:52] chance at complying because our policy

[7:54] says nothing about that. That is

[7:56] correct. Um and I did go over that with

[7:59] the town attorney and the town attorney

[8:01] did issue additional guidance for that

[8:03] if you'd like me to.

[8:06] Well, I would. Yes. Okay.

[8:09] because this isn't in the Supreme Court

[8:11] decision is not in the state statute

[8:13] which as of today said it was current to

[8:16] 2024. So was this Supreme Court decision

[8:19] since then? It was the 2020

[8:24] Supreme Court ruling the town of

[8:26] Colchester um versus

[8:35] certainly the language supervised public

[8:38] displays is not in the state statute.

[8:40] It's not in our policy.

[8:42] So

[8:44] given that it's my understanding we

[8:46] approved this application last year. I

[8:50] there was no approval for an application

[8:52] last year. There wasn't an application

[8:53] last year. I think it's a

[8:55] misunderstanding.

[8:57] Okay. So the fireworks that we set up

[8:59] last year were done without a permit.

[9:00] Correct. Yep. I feel better now. So

[9:05] according to town attorney, it looks

[9:07] like many of the past applications had

[9:09] Northstar fireworks as the operator and

[9:11] they had insurance. So if those were for

[9:13] public displays, I think those permits

[9:16] were appropriate. Even if they were not,

[9:18] the Supreme Court has highlighted that

[9:20] the statute is very poorly written and

[9:22] lacks clarity. So the town would not be

[9:24] bound to approve similar permits going

[9:26] forward just because it may have done so

[9:28] in error in the past.

[9:30] I I think that makes more sense. the

[9:32] fact that this is not a public display.

[9:35] I wouldn't bring into this because I

[9:37] don't think our policy or state statute

[9:40] says that.

[9:42] Yes. And and we both uh both the town

[9:45] attorney and I do believe the policy

[9:47] needs to be updated. Um so we're going

[9:49] to be bringing that forward. There's

[9:52] also been another fireworks application.

[9:54] We're working with um with that

[9:57] gentleman to determine whether his is a

[9:59] supervised public display or not. And if

[10:02] it is, we'll be bringing that

[10:03] application forward. So the lack of a

[10:06] competent operator. Yep. That's one.

[10:09] This despite there being no definition

[10:11] of that, but no one has been identified

[10:13] in this application as being

[10:15] responsible.

[10:18] Northstar fireworks in the past has been

[10:20] the competent operator for but in this

[10:22] application they're not mentioned. Nope.

[10:24] So okay. and the lack of insurance and

[10:28] we did not have police sign off on this

[10:30] application. If I recall, we had fire

[10:32] department but not police. Yes, that is correct.

[10:37] [Music]

[10:38] I had Josh over here first hand up.

[10:44] Um my question is is state law is there

[10:46] a state law that prohibits any type of

[10:49] fireworks that are personal use not for

[10:51] public use? Yes. So if we

[10:55] it's just as simple as I'm gonna pull

[10:58] this up here.

[11:01] So if you go to just Google are

[11:04] fireworks legal in Vermont. Um what you

[11:08] find is in Vermont fireworks are

[11:11] generally illegal with the exception of

[11:12] permitted supervised public displays. Um

[11:16] the use, possession, sale and

[11:17] distribution of fireworks are only legal

[11:19] after a permit is obtained for a public

[11:21] display. And then if you type in

[11:23] somewhere like Maine, yes, consumer

[11:26] fireworks are legal in Hampshire.

[11:29] Yes, Mr. Palmer. So there's a difference

[11:32] even when you just search.

[11:36] Uh so just to jump in here, talking

[11:38] about police approval, doesn't sound

[11:40] like anything that I would sign off on.

[11:42] It sounds like it's uh going to cause a

[11:45] lot of headaches. People in town

[11:46] generally complain about fireworks that

[11:48] are not part of a public display during

[11:50] late July 4th or those type of things.

[11:52] We get a lot of complaints on that. And

[11:54] uh just as Brandon said there, fireworks

[11:57] are not legal to uh shoot off or possess

[12:03] a town permit. in the

[12:06] however where Turby is is not to me it

[12:10] doesn't sound like it meets the

[12:12] you know the category of a public

[12:15] display and stuff. So my advice is law

[12:18] enforcement for your community would be

[12:20] just to exist and unfortunately it's too

[12:23] bad for them

[12:26] I don't think it would make sense to

[12:27] approve it. soon.

[12:31] So, you're saying he won't sign this

[12:33] application?

[12:34] From the little bit I know, it sounds

[12:36] like it doesn't meet that

[12:40] um laid out in statute and I miss what

[12:42] the Supreme Court decision was. Branch,

[12:44] what did they say in the Supreme Court

[12:46] decision? So, the um let me pull that up

[12:49] real quick. Can I just finish my

[12:51] thought? I just our application, our

[12:54] policy requires sign off from police and

[12:57] fire. And if we have fire, but if the

[13:00] police department is not going to sign

[13:02] the application, then that does give us

[13:03] very clear grounds without getting into

[13:06] the Supreme Court decision on this

[13:08] application or denying. Okay. I'm

[13:12] uncomfortable denying it on the grounds

[13:14] of something that none of us had seen

[13:16] before tonight and certainly this

[13:17] applicant was not aware of. I think but

[13:20] state statute is very clear that state

[13:22] statute does not reference the Supreme

[13:24] Court decision. Okay, sorry. But state

[13:27] statute does say that the select board

[13:29] only has the authority to approve

[13:30] supervised public displays. I did not

[13:32] find that language in 3132.

[13:36] But so case law and statute are two

[13:38] different things. But the Supreme Court

[13:40] so case law is a a court interpreting

[13:43] the statute and if so if their

[13:45] interpretation

[13:47] uh which happened after the statute was

[13:50] passed if they say u is for public

[13:53] displays that's the interpretation of

[13:55] the law and that's how the law ends up

[13:57] being enforced. So even though the

[13:58] statute has some uh

[14:02] vagness there with the Supreme Court

[14:04] making a ruling on it, that's how that's

[14:06] called case law. And so that's how

[14:08] legally then um law enforcement in the

[14:12] lands to interpret how that statute is

[14:15] to be enforced. And I beg forgiveness.

[14:17] Under item uh B, the state fire marshall

[14:21] may adopt reasonable rules for granting

[14:23] permits for supervised public displays

[14:25] of fires. It's not under the part that

[14:27] applies to what we can do. So that's why

[14:29] I blanked that out, but it is there. So

[14:32] anyway, I I'm just I want to be very

[14:34] clear on if I vote to deny this that

[14:37] it's on

[14:38] grounds that are quite solid and clear

[14:40] that the applicant is not able to comply

[14:42] with our current policy in our

[14:44] application.

[14:48] John

[14:55] fireworks for about 13 years for

[14:57] Northstar fireworks. And most all the

[15:00] shows that I've done have been display

[15:02] which are the bigger stuff. Uh once in a

[15:05] while Northstar does do class, it's

[15:07] called class C and 1.3 which is the

[15:11] display. Um, I took the time because it

[15:14] interested me because of uh my

[15:16] association with Northstar to try to

[15:18] follow this and see what u interpret it.

[15:22] So I contacted U Landon Wheeler with

[15:25] second command at fire uh safety in

[15:28] water and I asked him about public

[15:31] versus private and his comment this is

[15:34] going to be pretty much a quote. If it's

[15:36] in front of an audience it's public. He

[15:39] said, he said, "We do not consider any

[15:42] show private."

[15:45] What he said. Um, but with that said, I

[15:48] will say that Vermont state law has not

[15:51] been changed in a long time. I'm not

[15:54] even sure when the the statute that's in

[15:56] force right now was written, but it it

[15:59] and it's and it's lacking. And uh

[16:01] there's been some efforts in the past to

[16:03] get it modified so that it was a little

[16:05] cleaner and didn't throw the

[16:07] responsibility on every select board in

[16:09] the state of Vermont to decide yay or

[16:12] nay. And I asked him about responsible

[16:14] operator. This is what he said. And this

[16:18] once again I'm talking about the

[16:20] consumer stuff that you can buy in

[16:21] Vermont. There's two stores in Vermont

[16:23] that sell fireworks or you can buy

[16:24] across the river. And he said did they

[16:28] read the directions that came with it?

[16:30] Did they follow him? And that was the

[16:32] end of what he said. Uh there is no

[16:34] certification in Vermont for a certified

[16:38] fireworks operator. I don't have a

[16:40] certification in Vermont. It's expired,

[16:43] but I have one in New Hampshire that's

[16:44] tested. Should Vermont get a little more

[16:47] strict? They probably should. Are there

[16:50] problems in Vermont with fireworks? Yes,

[16:52] there are. But the problem is when the

[16:54] town doesn't know about them, um,

[16:58] leaving the neighbors concerns aside,

[17:01] it's a lot easier if you know that the fireworks are going to go on. As far

[17:06] as the public or private, if you take

[17:08] that to an extreme,

[17:10] um, I'm going to use another example

[17:12] that was in my house. We put on a

[17:14] fireworks show for my daughter's

[17:16] wedding. You wouldn't have been able to

[17:17] permit because it's not public. You had

[17:19] to be invited. that would and if that

[17:21] gets taken to an extreme in Vermont,

[17:24] nobody will be able to put on a

[17:25] fireworks show unless they invite the

[17:27] whole community. Maybe it's a good

[17:29] thing, maybe that's a bad, but it

[17:30] nonetheless, it isn't what

[17:35] fire prevention has in mind. Keep in

[17:37] mind, they said, and this is a quote,

[17:39] it's not in writing. He just said, if

[17:42] it's in front of an audience, it's

[17:44] public. I would challenge that if I was

[17:47] a grammar expert, which I'm not, but

[17:51] they really do need to to tighten up the

[17:53] laws and and figure out so that it

[17:55] doesn't put the onus on you guys. And

[17:57] another thing he said was it's whatever

[17:59] the select board is comfortable with.

[18:01] And you know, I looked at the

[18:02] application and his sentbacks met code

[18:07] um in NFDA. Part of the law is NFDA 1193

[18:12] and it says 70 ft for every inch of

[18:15] shell. He's got inch and 3/4. So he's

[18:17] got to be 125 ft away from uh his

[18:20] audience and he's got that. Um the even

[18:23] the shows that we shoot, we shoot up to

[18:25] 6 in and then you go out 350 ft. And if

[18:29] it's even a variances on that, you can

[18:31] angle it and you can cut it by one/3.

[18:34] Um, but anyway, that that's kind of a

[18:36] secondary thing. But I think the way

[18:38] that fire prevention is interpreting it

[18:41] is is important. Um, but it's your guy's

[18:44] decision to make

[18:48] somebody else over there. I can't see

[18:50] who it is.

[18:52] Yes. I don't know what Wayne Johnson I

[18:54] don't know what's the laws have changed

[18:56] over the years but I do know that when

[18:58] my kids graduated college I came to the

[19:01] town it was back a few years when Peter

[19:03] Cole was still the town manager and Dick

[19:07] uh Brown was the chief of police and I

[19:09] asked if I could get a firework display

[19:11] what could I do could I put on put on

[19:13] fireworks the what Dick told me is

[19:17] fireworks other than the spacers and

[19:19] stuff are illegal in Vermont illegal to

[19:21] be sold or purchased in Vermont. He

[19:23] goes, "No, if they miraculously somehow

[19:25] appear in your garage, his words, he

[19:28] goes, I don't know anything about it,

[19:29] but he goes and Peter told me, uh, well,

[19:34] there is no fireworks commission. I

[19:36] don't know when the select board started

[19:37] granting permits. I don't know when that

[19:39] happened. My wife was actually working

[19:41] for the town half of the time, and they

[19:43] did actually have a fireworks commission

[19:45] to get grant permits for licensed

[19:48] operators to put on public fireworks

[19:50] displays. So it's my understanding that

[19:52] all fireworks are still illegal over as

[19:54] what John said there's two places that

[19:56] you can purchase them. I that's news to

[19:59] me. I didn't know and I'm you know uh

[20:02] but from my understanding it was always

[20:04] did I put on a show? Yes, I did. I still

[20:07] put on a show but as uh uh

[20:12] Peter Cole and Chief Brown also told me

[20:15] at the time. However, be aware that he

[20:18] said, "If something from your fireworks

[20:22] lands on your neighbor's roof, sets a

[20:24] fire." He goes, "You could be setting

[20:26] yourself up for a lawsuit." And at the

[20:28] time, the select board was not granting

[20:30] permits because, as Peter said, also

[20:33] that could be setting the talent for a

[20:35] lawsuit. If they're granting permits and

[20:36] they don't have a firework commission,

[20:38] the select board, now I don't know when

[20:39] the select board became the firework

[20:42] commission, too, but that's all I have

[20:44] to now. lawsuits could change. I may be

[20:46] behind foot

[20:49] people.

[20:52] Thank you.

[20:54] I see what I said before. Fireworks

[20:56] aren't illegal. They're illegal to to

[20:59] disasseal

[21:01] to shoot without permit. So waiting.

[21:06] Uh I was on the board when the existing

[21:09] ordinance was uh uh hatched out and we

[21:12] had all the same discussions that you're

[21:14] having tonight and all the aspects of

[21:16] it. Nothing's changed in state law. I

[21:19] can't speak for fire prevention. They've

[21:21] become more lax or less lax. I I I don't

[21:25] recall consulting with them. But

[21:27] nonetheless, we we did take all the

[21:28] things that you're taking into

[21:30] consideration.

[21:31] And we also felt that it was important

[21:34] to have something on the books so that

[21:36] people could legally, if you will, shoot

[21:39] them. And at least the neighbors would

[21:42] know, and this is a good example, if

[21:43] that ferment didn't come in, he did it

[21:45] anyway. By the time um the sheriff's

[21:48] department got there, whoever happened

[21:50] to get there, they'd be all done and it

[21:52] would be their choice whether or not

[21:53] they cighted. I think it's much better

[21:55] to have something on the books so that

[21:57] people can come in and at least attempt

[21:59] to do it legally as opposed to just

[22:01] let's face it, you go around on the 4th

[22:03] of July, there's stuff flying in the air

[22:05] everywhere. It's part of summer.

[22:12] Um so

[22:20] I agree with John and thank you John

[22:22] because I thought of you. I just didn't

[22:24] bring you up. I figured you'd come along

[22:27] some.

[22:29] Um

[22:32] maybe would it be possible if we if we

[22:35] hold off on this until our next meeting

[22:37] that brings it to the 23rd and brings us

[22:39] inside of the window. I think it

[22:42] requires 15 days or prior to the event.

[22:46] Can we wave that 15 days based on our

[22:49] situation? give him another two weeks to

[22:53] give us a writer on the insurance policy

[22:57] and the name of a qualified individual

[23:00] if that like you said even

[23:04] John you could go fire him for him in my

[23:05] opinion you know more about it than

[23:07] anybody in the room

[23:10] um

[23:15] is that possible

[23:18] Yeah,

[23:20] I mean it would have to be a published

[23:22] display and not a private. Well, I think

[23:25] but if that definition is correct,

[23:28] he still need at least to sign off. He's

[23:32] already said he would

[23:34] I would have to sign off on it as well.

[23:38] I mean, if really wants it, I fine. I

[23:41] sign off. I guess my what I meant by

[23:43] that is my advice. It sounds like it

[23:45] doesn't meet the definition. I think

[23:47] some hearsay of oh this guy said anybody

[23:50] watching this public from a law

[23:52] enforcement standpoint somebody's

[23:54] private property the people you invited

[23:56] I wouldn't consider that a public

[23:58] display but not sure that if you guys

[24:00] really want this person fireworks

[24:02] display it's fine just sounds like it's

[24:05] it also if I it also gives the gentleman

[24:09] an opportunity to come before us as we

[24:11] had requested he's missed that tonight

[24:12] because of graduation that's you know

[24:14] just a scheduling thing. Uh I I would

[24:17] also Is auxberry online? No, he says

[24:20] graduation. Oh, because there was the

[24:23] concern there with the animals. Yeah.

[24:26] Which I understand as well. See, I would

[24:28] also maybe afford him another

[24:30] opportunity to weigh in on this. Um

[24:34] perhaps there's a question.

[24:37] He said he was firing an inch and 3/4.

[24:39] John, excuse me. You said he was firing

[24:42] an inch and 3/4 was his request. That's

[24:44] what it says on the application. So, but

[24:48] we don't know how many how long.

[24:51] Um I I had some other questions kind of

[24:55] based on the drawing of where he's

[24:57] firing the direction he's firing. He

[25:00] shows a tree line. Is that didn't go

[25:02] into a field or is that over a forest?

[25:04] He didn't put down the fallout zone. um

[25:08] that that ambassador and and I'm not

[25:11] going to say there's no fallout from

[25:12] consumer fireworks, but it's pretty

[25:14] minimal. Okay. Well, again, thank you.

[25:19] I'm learning more as we go along. I

[25:21] could ask everybody in the room that has

[25:23] shot fireworks in their life to raise

[25:25] their hand.

[25:28] I I did it. I did it once.

[25:35] Um obviously over the over the years

[25:38] since the application

[25:40] um was presented by whenever that was um

[25:44] the fire department standpoint has been

[25:47] meet that we look at the criterias of

[25:50] the mapping what the safety protocol

[25:52] that he puts in place and obviously the

[25:55] conditions of the weather at that point.

[25:58] Um obviously on there it is um both fire

[26:01] department permits have to sign off on

[26:02] it. Didn't matter what side of town it

[26:04] was. also the fire warden and it does

[26:07] state in the permit um that that uh I

[26:10] think it's two days prior to the event

[26:12] and they have to reach out to the fire

[26:13] warden uh to uh find out what the uh

[26:17] fire statuses of um uh if we're going to

[26:22] allow it or not allow it depending on

[26:25] the level of fire safety for the forest

[26:30] fire. Uh but that that's that's why both fire departments have been under

[26:35] the pressure. Obviously what was brought

[26:37] up tonight about the statute change uh

[26:40] versus private versus you know that was

[26:43] never

[26:45] this was brought up prior to that.

[26:49] Thank you.

[26:52] John made a really good point though if

[26:54] people are there watching it. It's

[26:55] public display.

[26:58] Um, and I think he clarified private

[27:01] with with the wedding uh analogy, which

[27:05] is, you know, those are invite invites

[27:07] only. And maybe I still think if you got

[27:10] 300 people that you invited to a wedding

[27:12] and you were shooting that's still

[27:14] public display, you got 300 people

[27:16] watching it, still an audience.

[27:20] One of the thing that that Wheeler said

[27:23] was that they are trying not to adore

[27:27] it. They don't want to have regulations.

[27:29] He understands that the existing law

[27:32] leaves problems like this. But believe

[27:36] it or not, in Vermont, they don't want

[27:37] to overregulated or adds add things.

[27:40] They uh I think they're they're really

[27:42] uh sherping their responsibility.

[27:45] And I'll I'm going to pursue that a

[27:47] little bit with land that um it's not

[27:49] fair to dump it on every 252

[27:53] boards in Vermont to make their own

[27:55] decision. Most of the I tell you right

[27:57] now that a lot of towns don't even have

[27:59] a permit system for display fireworks.

[28:03] We did one in Andover, Vermont, and they

[28:06] didn't have a thing. So, the office

[28:09] sends out a generic one. The select

[28:11] still has to sign off on it, but

[28:13] nonetheless, it's a generic format.

[28:17] Do we need a motion to continue? Yeah, I

[28:20] make a motion to continue review this

[28:22] application to our next meeting.

[28:26] So 23

[28:29] 23rd

[28:31] I'm sorry. No, no, we're we're second before, right? Two weeks

[28:35] would be 23rd

[28:38] June 23rd meeting

[28:41] with the request that the applicant be

[28:43] present and then

[28:46] additional insurance information. I

[28:49] think also answer

[28:52] public display which I think is the

[28:54] thing that makes our decision.

[29:02] Yeah,

[29:04] that that one bothers me less than the

[29:07] um um I'll second the motion invincibly

[29:11] for now and now we go into discussion.

[29:14] Um I'm more concerned with the you know

[29:17] somebody knowing that somebody knows

[29:19] who's handling the event and the fire

[29:22] that's kind of important.

[29:25] What does the select board consider a

[29:26] competent operator? Well, that's what

[29:28] John Harrison

[29:34] Well, he might know fireworks. He might

[29:36] not be confident, but everybody that

[29:38] comes home with all their appendages.

[29:43] Um, hold on, Brian. Oh, well, I almost

[29:48] I mean,

[29:50] maybe get to the first town controversy

[29:52] here, but I mean the division of fire

[29:53] safety's own packet that they put out on

[29:56] their website. I mean, fireworks are

[29:57] dangerous in particular, blah, blah, Uh, public fireworks displays

[30:01] conducted by trained professionals and

[30:03] supervised by the local fire department.

[30:05] They're good alternatives. Um, and

[30:07] again, I just think

[30:10] I think there's a lot of literature out

[30:11] there that saying needs to be a public

[30:13] display. And if you're saying, well, 300

[30:16] people, but if I wasn't but if you

[30:19] weren't wanted there, they could kick

[30:21] you out, right? That's not public. If

[30:23] you guys hold a Fourth of July

[30:24] celebration and light off fireworks,

[30:27] that's public display. I really disagree

[30:30] uh from a legal standpoint that someone

[30:32] would say that just because you have

[30:33] people at your house, that's a public

[30:34] display. Uh you're on private property,

[30:37] people are there by invitation only. Um

[30:39] and I think the idea that there might be

[30:42] not a a definition of a trained

[30:44] professional or wherever the or

[30:46] competent operator um you know just a

[30:50] random person saying oh yeah I'm I'm

[30:52] trained in this um I think you're also

[30:54] opening yourself up

[30:57] you know to everybody's going to start

[31:00] applying for fireworks permits and then

[31:01] what do you say no this doesn't make

[31:03] sense

[31:04] and also wants to be supervised with

[31:06] fire department I'm just saying I

[31:09] you're going down a road here

[31:12] seems I don't know a lot of other towns

[31:14] have approved this

[31:21] and I uh clearly I'm catching up but I I

[31:24] do agree with what John said about have

[31:26] it is right if people are going to do

[31:28] fireworks it's kind of nice to know

[31:30] ahead of time some of us with animals it

[31:32] is nice to know say you have in the barn

[31:35] out on a one strand electric fence uh

[31:38] you know uh it is I mean there and maybe

[31:41] there isn't a legal pathway because

[31:42] there isn't a legal it's not legal but

[31:46] uh making sure that we're correct on

[31:48] that because if there is a pathway to

[31:50] permit it that is the better pathway uh

[31:54] in my opinion so that the neighbors know

[31:56] etc etc

[31:59] I don't I don't love fire fireworks

[32:01] going off on the 4th of July because you

[32:03] know out talking the dogs but uh but

[32:05] that's I have a kid who should fireworks

[32:08] completely um or or start fireworks. Um

[32:14] I think the problem is state statute not

[32:19] being conflicting.

[32:21] Um

[32:23] I'll send a bad position which leaves

[32:25] town council very skeptical the sheriff

[32:29] myself.

[32:30] Um I will I will obtain this clarity

[32:35] before the next meeting.

[32:38] As you say it has to be within 15 days.

[32:41] That was our that was our own policy.

[32:44] Well the state of Vermont their little

[32:48] hand out the fire division fires in 15

[32:50] days needs to be approved. So I don't

[32:52] know. Okay. I'm aware of that 15 days,

[32:54] but if you have a policy in the division

[32:57] of fire safety has a policy, it might be

[32:59] under the title 20 30 31 in that area

[33:04] that um under permitting in 15 days. I

[33:08] can't imagine if you guys made that up

[33:09] and fire safety made it up all at once.

[33:13] So, I think

[33:17] we could hold a special meeting if you

[33:19] guys want to meet that requirement.

[33:22] But policy reference I I could have

[33:25] missed it when I read it, but does it

[33:27] reference an application date or an

[33:28] approval date?

[33:32] The the other that would put the other

[33:34] in jeopardy as well because it's not

[33:36] that

[33:39] and we've kicked the can twice now down

[33:42] into 90. Yeah. You know, it's not the

[33:45] applicant's error that he's late on the

[33:48] application.

[33:49] That's why I mentioned possibly waving

[33:52] that. Um because he certainly meant that

[33:56] it's us that's holding that up, right?

[34:01] And the fire departments are aware, you

[34:03] know,

[34:05] neighbors are aware. Says applications

[34:07] for permit shall be made to the town

[34:09] manager and writing at least 21 days in

[34:12] advance the database. And he's more than

[34:14] met that. Mhm.

[34:19] This was at our last meeting

[34:21] 14 days ago.

[34:26] And one last thing then I'll shut up.

[34:30] Part of I did check on this.

[34:34] Hard to believe.

[34:36] But what triggered it was that people

[34:39] were showing up, especially in the

[34:40] Rutland area, with a U-Haul full of

[34:43] fireworks and putting up beside their

[34:44] own and selling them. And that wasn't a

[34:47] great setup because they didn't have

[34:49] proper ATF um proper credentials or um

[34:54] and that really is what triggered it,

[34:57] I'm not disputing what it says because

[34:59] it does talk about the displays, but

[35:02] it's that was what triggered that

[35:04] Supreme Court case. was a sale of

[35:06] fireworks and that pretty much has been

[35:08] snuffed out. Um the only place right now

[35:12] that I'm aware of you can buy them are

[35:13] any

[35:27] motion to carry this to the next

[35:28] meeting. Everyone in favor?

[35:33] Any extensions? Motion carries. Next

[35:35] meeting

[35:37] agenda.

[35:41] Okay. 1034.

[36:02] I'd like to take a moment to recognize

[36:04] our significant milestone for the town

[36:06] of Lisfield.

[36:08] As part of our continued efforts, the

[36:09] fire department committee and I work

[36:11] collaborative collaboratively to create

[36:13] the new position of municipal fire

[36:15] chief.

[36:17] After a thorough and thoughtful

[36:18] selection process, the committee

[36:21] unanimously recommended Josh Combo for

[36:23] that role.

[36:25] In accordance with that recommendation,

[36:27] I officially appointed Mr. Cono as well

[36:29] as Phil's first ministerial fire chief.

[36:33] At this time, I'll turn the meeting over

[36:34] to the town clerk, Fan, who will

[36:36] administer the oath of office to

[36:59] Um I the undersound undersigned town

[37:01] manager of the town of Wesfield, Vermont

[37:04] under the authority given to me by law

[37:06] do hereby

[37:08] by these presents constitute and appoint

[37:10] you fire chief in and for the town of

[37:13] Leisfield with all the powers and duties

[37:16] appertaining to said office pursuing to

[37:18] the laws of Vermont.

[37:20] Set appointment shall remain in force

[37:21] unless sooner revoked for cause. This

[37:25] new appointment supersedes prior

[37:27] appointments.

[37:29] given under my hand at the town of

[37:31] Wisville and said county of Windsor this

[37:35] 9th day of June 2025

[38:11] I, Josh, do solemnly swear that I will

[38:14] faithfully execute the duties of fire

[38:16] chief in and for the town of

[38:18] Weathersfield during my continuence of

[38:20] office and therein do equal right and

[38:23] justice for all men and women to the

[38:25] best of my judgment and ability.

[39:03] I'm going with this badge.

[39:07] Fire chief.

[39:10] Thank you.

[39:29] Doesn't the new fire chief have to give

[39:31] a speaking

[39:34] lately?

[39:41] Thank you all.

[39:48] I have a couple more things in my

[39:50] report. Any questions about the appointment of the municipal

[39:54] fire chief? Is it this an open-ended

[39:58] thing? It's on a term that it's good for

[40:00] so many years or something like that.

[40:02] Um, it'll remain in full force in effect

[40:04] unless they're built for just cause.

[40:05] Okay, let's wait. That's my

[40:07] understanding. Okay.

[40:09] Um, I'd like to pass it over to Sheriff

[40:12] Palmer to give an update on policing,

[40:14] but I'll follow that a couple of updates

[40:16] on our bill of sale.

[40:20] Well, hello. So, uh, besides fireworks,

[40:23] um, we took over June 1 and, uh,

[40:26] basically midnight. Um, we think by the

[40:28] next day we got called out. Everything

[40:30] seems to be going pretty smooth. Josh,

[40:32] even though I just left, um I think this

[40:34] is a huge step forward public safety

[40:36] wise for town Weathersfield and that was

[40:39] clearly a right choice because the last

[40:43] month or so that I've been interacting

[40:44] with him been fantastic and just

[40:47] welcoming and we've been working

[40:48] together uh fantastic. I don't know if

[40:51] you're following us on social media or

[40:52] whatever, we've had a couple arrests

[40:55] already. um impaired driver crashed into

[40:58] a vehicle um on 131, full quart off of

[41:04] him and

[41:06] arrested him with a bunch of charges

[41:07] there. Uh the next night we arrested a

[41:09] driver who was about two and a half

[41:11] times the legal limit uh for DUI. Uh so

[41:15] we're continuing a little late

[41:19] weather still got called out to um and

[41:22] the car took off just before we got

[41:24] there.

[41:26] again 131. So, it's been busy. Uh I

[41:31] think that you've seen hopefully a

[41:33] little bit of local presence. We're covering till late into the night

[41:38] and uh we were at the school the other

[41:41] day. Um

[41:43] Deputy Mike Keith and I stopped with the

[41:44] school, met with the school, talked

[41:46] about emergency planning, uh handed out

[41:48] about 4,000 stickers. I don't know how a

[41:50] couple hundred kids ended up with 4,000

[41:52] stickers, but uh

[41:55] And so that's been very good. We'll be

[41:56] at field day Wednesday and hopefully

[41:58] make an appearance for myself. So, uh,

[42:00] we're building those relationships and

[42:01] everything seems to be clicking very

[42:03] well. Doc came

[42:08] out the other night to help us with this

[42:10] accident scene with the car driver with

[42:13] drugs. It's just been it's been very smooth so far. Any questions?

[42:25] May we have to step up to the podium and

[42:28] say who you are please.

[42:34] I'm Mal Spalding and I just wanted to

[42:36] thank uh you guys for making that

[42:38] decision as well as having Ryan here.

[42:40] We've actually had to deal with them uh

[42:42] three times actually right outside of

[42:44] our house um already which is kind of

[42:47] annoying but it's been nice to have them

[42:49] almost immediately. And one of the other

[42:52] times was also right outside our house,

[42:53] but we were away. Um, and I don't know

[42:55] if I should publicly say this, but it

[42:57] was nice to know as well that my house

[42:58] was being watched. Um, because I have

[43:00] huge concerns about the people that are

[43:02] around us. So, all of them have been

[43:04] wonderful at firefalls. Um, I can't

[43:06] speak highly enough of that. So, I want

[43:08] to thank you very much.

[43:13] They're kind of annoying because I was

[43:15] there. I'm not sure what she

[43:19] that right. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, any

[43:22] other thoughts, questions, concerns,

[43:24] direction?

[43:27] So, for the past several weeks, I mean,

[43:29] initially upon you taking over that

[43:31] following Monday, we transferred all um,

[43:34] police equipment over to the sheriff's

[43:36] office just to have it in holding in a

[43:39] safe place.

[43:40] um the accountant and I went over there

[43:42] uh with Sheriff Palmer and a couple of

[43:44] other deputies and we took an inventory

[43:46] of all the equipment, serial numbers,

[43:48] models and we developed a list. Um all

[43:52] pictures were taken of all equipment and

[43:55] the accountants currently working on

[43:56] value. Um so we think within

[44:01] 20 to 30 more days we'll have we'll have

[44:04] everything drafted for the select board

[44:06] to review.

[44:12] Next update is a solid waste update. Um,

[44:18] thank you sir.

[44:21] on the last meeting I I had mentioned

[44:24] that um

[44:37] the last meeting I mentioned I do an

[44:38] update on the solid waste contract. Um I

[44:42] am still currently working through that

[44:44] with the Windsor County solid waste

[44:47] venture out waste. Nothing's inside at

[44:50] this point.

[44:53] I'm hoping building agreement within the

[44:55] next week or so.

[44:58] The website I have a meeting Wednesday

[45:01] or Thursday. Still waiting to schedule

[45:04] an exact date and time, but it will be

[45:06] this week. Um to talk to our

[45:09] administrative assistant about taking on

[45:11] website responsibilities, um including

[45:13] the training to get up to speed. Um,

[45:16] we're also going to talk about whether

[45:18] we want to contract out um, one of the

[45:21] companies that in the project, I did

[45:24] reach out to them and they did say they

[45:26] would still be interested on getting the

[45:27] website to park and then having our town

[45:32] office, our administrative assistant

[45:35] handling it going forward.

[45:37] So, we're going to I hope to have it

[45:40] flushed out before the next meeting. Um,

[45:44] the last thing is rosters and mission

[45:46] statements. That's one thing that I

[45:49] haven't fully got to yet. I hope to have

[45:51] all those completed by the next meeting.

[45:53] Sorry.

[46:00] Any questions for me?

[46:06] I just have one quick question and I

[46:08] didn't know this and I didn't want my

[46:10] apologies. Is the new number to get a

[46:13] hold of the new police department been

[46:15] changed on the website? Yeah, it's not.

[46:17] Thanks for bringing that up, Ar. You're

[46:19] welcome.

[46:24] Thanks. At least I haven't done it.

[46:27] Suzanne might have

[46:34] next thing on the uh agenda. Warrant to

[46:37] impound unlicensed l uh unlicensed dogs.

[46:43] This is uh Floan.

[46:46] You do it or does Floan? Floan. Okay.

[46:51] Oh, there you go. Chloe, get up to the

[46:53] podium and explain to us why you want

[46:55] this done.

[46:57] I really don't want to get up there.

[47:00] Wow.

[47:04] Incidentally, we used to affectionately

[47:05] call it the kill blob

[47:08] letter. It's really severely worried

[47:12] and that's in stat that's not but every

[47:16] year um at this time in June I have to

[47:19] hand the list of delinquent dogs over to

[47:21] the select board and then it's their job

[47:24] to go out and get the unlicensed dogs

[47:27] put somebody in charge of it that hasn't

[47:29] happened in many many years and we are

[47:32] so down on registration

[47:35] and the vote Well, one of the whole

[47:37] thing is because it's stacked up because

[47:40] you just stacked, but it's a health

[47:42] issue because we don't know what adult

[47:44] dogs have had rabies, you know, vaccines

[47:47] or whatever. And if they bite somebody,

[47:49] it's a very costly thing for somebody to

[47:51] go through. So, I'm thinking of I do a

[47:56] lot to please try to get this situation

[47:59] out. We did have so many years ago we

[48:02] did a job and we have a nearly $700

[48:05] register. Now I don't even have three.

[48:08] So each year it keeps going down.

[48:11] And I gave you another paper there

[48:13] trying to reinforce how important this

[48:15] is. And that is state statue. And um we

[48:19] sent them a card a little postcard in

[48:22] January telling them that they have to

[48:24] register their dog. I'm sure they

[48:25] haven't. And then the middle of April,

[48:28] we send another reminder to tell them to

[48:30] do it by May 30th because then it's

[48:32] after that that I have to turn this

[48:34] year. And I have a sign out front. Um

[48:39] little Fred fell over when it rained.

[48:42] But um

[48:44] that's it in a nutshell. It's law and

[48:50] that what's true should be done. There

[48:52] are people on that board that have

[48:55] how do how do we enforce this?

[48:59] How how do we

[49:02] start starts by following the state law

[49:05] by designating one or more persons to

[49:07] maintain a list?

[49:09] We have lists. We have the list. Have a

[49:11] list. They have

[49:13] basically not

[49:16] um approach

[49:18] the letter.

[49:20] Um, one of the clerks said that how they

[49:23] handled it is based on how a notice and

[49:26] said that if they weren't registered by

[49:28] section of China, it's going to be a

[49:30] $100 fine. We tried a few years ago

[49:33] around the $25.

[49:35] That didn't help. So,

[49:38] I don't know what that's going to do.

[49:40] And also the state raised it this year

[49:43] um their part of it to $2 helps pay for

[49:48] the um babies or sp and um it's it's

[49:52] hard to just get to pay $10 never mind

[49:56] $5 for license. So and now it's on a new

[50:01] but so who's who's maintaining this

[50:03] list?

[50:05] I did. Were you designated? Did you say

[50:08] list? Who is maintaining the list of

[50:12] unregistered dogs? Yes. My offices.

[50:16] Did the select board designate somebody

[50:19] in your office to do that? No, we do

[50:22] with our statute. That is the statute of

[50:25] FL. Yes. But now it's turned over to the

[50:27] school board. If you read those I just I

[50:30] have it right in front of me. The

[50:32] legislative body shall annually

[50:34] designate one or more persons to

[50:36] maintain a list. Who has been designated

[50:39] by this board to maintain that list? I

[50:42] give you the list which you have there.

[50:44] And then you're not answering the

[50:45] question.

[50:47] is who did this board

[50:50] designate to do that? We haven't done it

[50:52] yet. Thank you. So we have not followed

[50:56] the statute flowing. No, you haven't.

[50:58] Yes. That's why I'm asking you, who is

[51:01] maintaining the list? Maintenance of the

[51:04] list. What would that be? That would be

[51:07] knocking on people's doors that you

[51:10] think have a dog that's not registered

[51:12] and

[51:14] verifying they have a dog, write their

[51:16] name down, and they're now on the list

[51:19] by the designated person from this

[51:21] board.

[51:23] That would be the statute to start with,

[51:25] following the law, right? you're

[51:27] following the law with fireworks and

[51:29] other things. We're following the law,

[51:33] which I'm okay with. Um, but that's the

[51:36] first thing that hasn't happened. So, my

[51:38] question is the list you claim to have,

[51:41] you claim it's been maintained. How has

[51:43] it been maintained and by who?

[51:47] I'm talking about my delinquent list

[51:49] that I turned over to you by statute.

[51:51] It's going to be another list. I do not

[51:53] know. You'll have to come up with your

[51:54] own list if if you go knocking on doors,

[51:57] whatever. But I don't I get a lot of

[51:59] Well, the question is about the list

[52:01] that you have. How did it how did you

[52:04] determine that? Because people that have

[52:07] registered last year did not register

[52:10] this year. That's how they get on. Okay.

[52:13] All right. Well, that's an answer.

[52:18] Excuse me. That brings up the question

[52:21] then if somebody has a dog and it's

[52:23] registered and it dies deceased, should

[52:26] we be telling the the town clerk? So

[52:29] because my dog passed away last year and

[52:34] uh so that's why I have a rush this

[52:35] year. Uh everybody from here to my house

[52:40] knew my dog because she could get out of

[52:42] anything and she knows of her. So every

[52:44] house from Thrash Road to here was her

[52:46] mom. think everybody adopted there. So,

[52:50] but I didn't sure this year, but you

[52:52] know, the people didn't know. I mean, we

[52:55] actually had a party for all all the

[52:57] neighbors from Europe to my house to

[52:59] come up to that. Everybody knew Benny.

[53:01] So, um and there are a few few dogs that

[53:05] have that have disease, but we don't

[53:08] know that unless somebody called and

[53:11] it's time report say this, do that.

[53:16] We get reports all the time of dogs that

[53:19] bother people and they ask if they get

[53:22] registered in that.

[53:25] So, so through that process you update

[53:27] the list accordingly as best you can

[53:29] those shoes. Yes. Not if the dog wasn't

[53:33] licensed before. I cannot do that.

[53:36] If somebody that would bring them back

[53:38] to this person that's responsible for

[53:40] it. Well, you come up with a person.

[53:44] I'm just saying thank you. I nominate

[53:46] you. I'm just saying that

[53:49] we have we have to follow the law if

[53:50] we're going to follow the law. Right.

[53:55] So, well, what I heard you say is years

[53:58] ago you had a system that worked well.

[54:00] Right. Can you tell us what that system

[54:02] was that was working?

[54:05] Um the person sends a letter um with

[54:09] statute. But I've done that too and I

[54:11] got regular polls for what the statute

[54:13] says

[54:16] that's not my words.

[54:19] But anyway, um this person

[54:22] got the prior list. Yeah. Who was the

[54:25] person at that I mean I don't care what

[54:26] their name is, but what was their role?

[54:29] That's what they were hired for. just to

[54:32] do it.

[54:33] [Music]

[54:41] And um

[54:43] they um the prior list and the ones that

[54:46] were not registered on the prior list

[54:47] and letters were sent out and I mean

[54:50] there are fines attached to this

[54:52] sheriff, the police, the police can't

[54:54] remove

[54:56] the animal control.

[54:59] We have an animal patrol officer, but I

[55:02] don't think she has many hours here. She

[55:04] works out in New Hampshire.

[55:07] And um we did get a lot. We got more

[55:11] dogs registered that time than I had

[55:14] ever seen.

[55:16] Then they each year.

[55:23] So did the select board authorize hiring

[55:26] this person to do those years ago? Yeah.

[55:30] Who hired the person to do that? The

[55:32] town.

[55:36] I I can't say that that they were hired.

[55:38] I'm not sure. Might have been volunteer.

[55:41] Was the person an animal control

[55:43] officer? No. Okay. What was the person's

[55:46] title?

[55:51] She was I don't really know what the

[55:53] title was. Wear dog

[55:59] was it? Yes. Okay.

[56:09] What happened to the position?

[56:32] can't see out of the corner of my eye

[56:34] when you're sitting over there. I

[56:35] believe at the time Lynn was constable

[56:37] back

[56:45] excuse me.

[56:48] That's how

[56:53] We don't have we haven't since that was

[56:56] back in 2014.

[56:58] I I can give you a little bit of history

[57:01] um on how it evolved um at different

[57:05] times. We had people that were people a

[57:08] little overzealous in their in their

[57:10] position and it was causing

[57:15] amount of strife in town. We didn't feel

[57:17] doing a good job and now we don't have a

[57:19] constable at all. And when the we went

[57:24] with the gal over in Claremont, yeah, it

[57:27] has been really a good system. I mean,

[57:30] she has done as far as I'm concerned.

[57:34] Don't do something to annoy her so she

[57:37] doesn't want to come over here because

[57:38] it's really important. But that's a

[57:40] little bit separate from the

[57:41] registration.

[57:44] You mean you mean you you're referring

[57:46] to animals or water?

[57:52] That's not the same as the con. No.

[58:00] Next motion to appoint Nathan.

[58:06] I just wanted to get out of that. I

[58:07] didn't want to point to me. So I I I

[58:11] mean I think what would happen Brandon

[58:13] present us is what you would suggest is

[58:15] a solution at the next meeting on on how

[58:19] to address making sure we're we're

[58:22] following the law would be

[58:26] but in a reasonable way that doesn't

[58:28] make the entire town angry, right?

[58:30] Sounds like the history. Yeah.

[58:43] Thank you. Thank you for Nathan.

[58:48] He's shaking his head.

[58:53] Okay. Next item on the agenda. Legal

[58:57] trail six discussion. What this is,

[59:00] right? Yep. Mr. Tar is here.

[59:06] Mr. Carr, are you there? Yes. Can you

[59:08] hear us? Okay. Yes. Yep. This is Joe and

[59:12] this is CC, my wife. Um, Brandon, should

[59:15] we just kind of walk through what we're

[59:17] looking to propose? Yeah. And, uh, I

[59:20] have your PowerPoint up on the other TV

[59:23] in the room. Okay. I'm currently on the

[59:26] first slide. Can you see it? Um, I

[59:29] cannot see it. Okay. I'm following on

[59:31] the I I have it up on my side though, so

[59:33] I can kind of follow and direct you when

[59:35] we go to the next slide. So, right now

[59:37] we're on the cover page and I'm going to

[59:39] move to the second page where it says

[59:42] utilizing legal trail 6. What, where,

[59:44] why, and when. Perfect. Great. So, hello

[59:48] everyone. Um, my name is Joe Cece. We're

[59:51] originally from the area. We currently

[59:53] reside in Portsouth, New Hampshire, but

[59:54] are looking to start making strides of

[59:56] coming back to this to that area to the

[59:58] Weathersfield area. And one of the

[1:00:00] options we're looking to pursue at this

[1:00:01] point is possibly build a house um on

[1:00:04] John and Patty Erison's property. Um and

[1:00:06] working through the details of that now.

[1:00:08] Um so what we're coming to the select

[1:00:10] board today to ask for guidance in your

[1:00:12] approval for is utilizing the legal

[1:00:14] trail 6 as a partial driveway. There's

[1:00:17] about 250 ft um of legal trail 6 that

[1:00:20] we'd like to up upgrade a little bit and

[1:00:23] utilize that piece to reach a potential

[1:00:25] driveway site at some point. Um, right

[1:00:27] now we're looking just to get approval

[1:00:29] on using and making the updates

[1:00:32] necessary for that legal trail 6 and

[1:00:34] like I said for a future home build and

[1:00:36] we'd like to start making improvements

[1:00:37] from like a timeline perspective to that

[1:00:40] um sometime this summer. Um, I put some

[1:00:44] photos here from like a driveway

[1:00:45] location perspective if Brandon you want

[1:00:47] to scroll down further

[1:00:50] of how it would like flow. Um, so one,

[1:00:53] two, they go in, you know, subsequent

[1:00:54] order here. um where the signage first

[1:00:58] starts where it says no motorized

[1:00:59] vehicles and kind of how the plow

[1:01:01] trucks, you know, managed their way up

[1:01:03] to there today. Um go further up and

[1:01:06] then you can see how it's like about two

[1:01:09] I think it's 250 to 300 feet is what

[1:01:11] we're looking to utilize um once it's

[1:01:13] all said and done. And if you scroll

[1:01:16] down further, there's an aerial view

[1:01:19] as well as the actual snippet from the

[1:01:23] mapping designating that it's legal

[1:01:25] trail 6.

[1:01:34] Joe, John, this is an extension of your

[1:01:36] like your

[1:01:41] I mean question. What? Excuse me. What

[1:01:44] your wife? No, Mike was asking a

[1:01:47] question.

[1:01:59] Um,

[1:02:01] this is this is an extension basically

[1:02:03] past your house, correct? Correct. Is

[1:02:05] that a private driveway to your house or

[1:02:07] is it trail six today? It's 3 to

[1:02:14] right about

[1:02:16] well be I guess from my seat it's class

[1:02:20] three right there. Oh it currently?

[1:02:23] Yeah. And that's approximate. Yeah. And a little bit of history. We moved in

[1:02:29] up on the hill in 2001

[1:02:31] and um the at that time the entire

[1:02:34] length of it was class 4 and people were

[1:02:37] going on it on skyline and it's really

[1:02:40] muddy, really steep. We have people

[1:02:42] trying to drive over it. Um um and it

[1:02:46] really shouldn't have been open for

[1:02:47] vehicles at that time. And that's mostly

[1:02:49] the end towards skyline. It eroded. It's

[1:02:52] muddy. Um, some guy came up doing an

[1:02:55] early Harley-Davidson and anyway and and

[1:02:57] we own both sides.

[1:03:03] of Center Grove Road

[1:03:07] all the way from where it begins at the

[1:03:10] um the old all the way to Skyline. So

[1:03:13] there's no other abutters that I know

[1:03:15] where that

[1:03:18] I do. I do I agree with that. Um you

[1:03:20] know um my question uh basically on this

[1:03:24] comes down to um be because that's a

[1:03:28] designated trail. There's certain

[1:03:31] restrictions on that uh that are in

[1:03:34] statute. Correct. Um wouldn't we have to

[1:03:37] do let Brandon let that sit there where

[1:03:40] it was and be fine? Sorry, I was I

[1:03:43] appreciate it. You're okay. Um

[1:03:46] uh but

[1:03:49] wouldn't wouldn't it wouldn't we be um

[1:03:51] wouldn't it be more appropriate to to

[1:03:53] take that back to a class three class

[1:03:56] four at least at least class four class four we don't maintain that

[1:04:00] would yeah we can allow them to use it

[1:04:03] exactly um uh is there is there does the

[1:04:09] if that's a glass three up to your house

[1:04:11] the town takes care of it that far

[1:04:13] correct do they they

[1:04:15] appropriate to have a good turnaround

[1:04:17] there. I guess it's about as appropriate

[1:04:19] as a lot of others in town which is not

[1:04:20] exactly appropriate

[1:04:23] like a hammerhead. It could be better

[1:04:25] and part of the plan is to make it

[1:04:27] better. Yeah. Um

[1:04:32] right. We we took the time to to uh look

[1:04:35] up state statute and reviewed it with

[1:04:38] town statute and state statute. The only

[1:04:42] differentiation between trail and class

[1:04:44] 4 is the maintainance of bridge and

[1:04:46] culvers. That's the only thing that's

[1:04:48] different and state statutes between a

[1:04:50] four and a trail. There's nothing in

[1:04:52] there about vehicles that we found. This

[1:04:56] research I did I should

[1:05:06] correct. A trail can be used motorized

[1:05:08] vehicle. This one was posted for no

[1:05:11] motorized vehicles because it was in

[1:05:13] good condition and people were driving

[1:05:15] on it and ruining it. So the board

[1:05:17] decided to post it um I believe from the

[1:05:19] homeowner um was requesting it also. So

[1:05:23] the town did that. That's not a state

[1:05:26] law. Um, if these folks wish for us to

[1:05:29] plow all the way to their new driveway

[1:05:31] going to their house another 300 feet,

[1:05:33] then we have to make it class three

[1:05:35] road, they would be responsible for

[1:05:36] bringing it up to that standard, doing

[1:05:38] that whole thing. Um, if we make it a

[1:05:40] class 4, I would be responsible for

[1:05:42] culberts and any kind of wash out or

[1:05:44] anything. If you don't want the expense,

[1:05:46] keep it a trail. You don't have to go

[1:05:47] through any of that stuff to do to

[1:05:48] change anything. You would have to have

[1:05:50] pre hearings. We have to have public

[1:05:52] notice and all that. you can keep it a

[1:05:55] trail, get permission them to work on it

[1:05:57] and do it. Sign a contract. Um Brandon

[1:06:01] and I have already had discussions and I came up with a little draft that we

[1:06:05] looked at. Um not to get too much into

[1:06:07] the weeds, but things to protect the

[1:06:09] town and the trail would be they

[1:06:11] couldn't post it that nobody's come in.

[1:06:14] um people are going to drive that

[1:06:15] actually 300 feet and they're going to

[1:06:17] have a place to park would I would

[1:06:19] assume they're going to know people are

[1:06:21] going to be able to drive at 300 feet

[1:06:23] and we can't keep them out of there and

[1:06:25] then allow them to use it as a as a

[1:06:27] private driveway because it is a public

[1:06:29] access. So that's on that's on the

[1:06:31] homeowner. We've already had that

[1:06:32] discussion. Um, I just don't want it to

[1:06:35] end up in a situation where somebody

[1:06:37] buys the house and it's not written

[1:06:40] really well with an agreement that they

[1:06:42] don't know the history and know that

[1:06:43] this is a public access and it is a

[1:06:45] trail from wherever they build their

[1:06:48] driveway. It's still going to be a trail

[1:06:49] out the skyline and they have to be able

[1:06:52] to let people are going to drive on it.

[1:06:54] What now the planning commissioner kicks

[1:06:57] in. What's the potential for future

[1:06:59] development beyond this? That would be

[1:07:02] entirely up to a subdivision and you'd

[1:07:03] have to go through that whole process.

[1:07:05] Yeah.

[1:07:07] And I do the same thing. If you if you

[1:07:09] subdivided and they wanted to add on to

[1:07:11] it, then they'd have to follow the

[1:07:12] subdivision rules and make the road

[1:07:13] bigger and wider and whatever else they

[1:07:15] had to do to make that more accessible,

[1:07:17] but it could still be considered a trail

[1:07:20] in our eyes and not have to go through

[1:07:21] the process of making it a four or a

[1:07:23] three

[1:07:25] and then it still be a planter. the um

[1:07:29] driveway access to what we what we tend

[1:07:32] to look at this as being um what is what

[1:07:35] are what are the homeowners that are on

[1:07:37] the on the road this will not be a

[1:07:39] driveway access this is them getting

[1:07:42] permission to drive I understand then

[1:07:44] they'll have to come back I understand

[1:07:46] that I'm just trying to understand what

[1:07:49] people that live there want to do

[1:07:56] I with a local contractor to try to get

[1:07:59] some idea of what we do. A from here to

[1:08:02] here is pretty flat. Um it's not muddy.

[1:08:07] Uh so we don't think that a base is

[1:08:09] going to be an issue, but nonetheless it

[1:08:11] it's shows old wheel ruts where the

[1:08:14] water has gone down through. One problem

[1:08:17] over the years was that uh it because

[1:08:20] this this had does slope this way and

[1:08:24] water would find its way and it was

[1:08:26] washing up the town road or or excuse me

[1:08:28] the class 3 road. So a water bar was put

[1:08:32] in right where the ax turn a little bit

[1:08:34] back actually and we got to figure out

[1:08:36] how to do that and the local contractor

[1:08:38] said well some kind of culvert or

[1:08:40] something to get the water turned there

[1:08:42] so people going down and and washing out

[1:08:45] the town part of the road. Uh which it

[1:08:48] seems to be working that hasn't washed

[1:08:50] out significantly for a long time. Uh so

[1:08:53] it is it is helping quite a bit. It does

[1:08:56] tend to sheet off the hill a little bit

[1:08:57] and we try to keep it turned so it

[1:08:59] doesn't go on the town road. Um, a

[1:09:03] little bit of history in in research.

[1:09:06] Thank you. Short left. Uh, try to figure

[1:09:09] out Patty and I remember coming before

[1:09:12] the board to limit traffic on the road.

[1:09:16] We moved up there in 2001. We couldn't

[1:09:19] find anything in the minutes. um the

[1:09:22] minutes from and and interestingly the mileage report that you guys sign

[1:09:28] every year in 2014 said it was a class 4

[1:09:32] and then in 15 it said that the trail.

[1:09:34] So I'm going to assume that that had

[1:09:36] something to do with the ancient road

[1:09:37] people uh picking up some old paperwork.

[1:09:40] I don't have any other explanation but

[1:09:42] then there was a footnote that said what

[1:09:44] say 2012

[1:09:46] per something from 2012. The 2012

[1:09:50] minutes aren't in the ball. We So we

[1:09:51] couldn't go back and research that. We

[1:09:53] couldn't find them. I don't know where

[1:09:55] they are or if they are.

[1:09:58] So So we couldn't find a history. Was it

[1:10:01] just down Highway being nicely putting

[1:10:04] the signs up? Honestly, don't know. Um

[1:10:08] so as a trail, if I can continue as a as

[1:10:12] a trail, uh what type of traffic do you

[1:10:15] see up there? What where are they going?

[1:10:18] what are they doing? You know, that kind

[1:10:19] of thing. Down at the skyline end,

[1:10:21] there's a significant structure to keep

[1:10:24] people from coming up through there.

[1:10:25] That's almost a pen road. Um, and not

[1:10:28] even a trail. Um, because technically

[1:10:32] somebody if you can drive this and you

[1:10:35] should be able to drive back too. Uh, so

[1:10:38] in a way it's a pent road, but it just

[1:10:41] totally we got a lot of them. There's a

[1:10:43] lot of fours you cannot drive on. Um,

[1:10:46] unless you have a tank, but but are

[1:10:49] there people walking, hiking? Yes. Out

[1:10:51] through there. All the above. So,

[1:10:55] I think skiing.

[1:10:59] Okay. So, horses, bikes, people. We

[1:11:01] invite people on our property, not only

[1:11:04] on the town, right? Well, that's that's

[1:11:05] great. What what I'm trying to get at is

[1:11:07] if you're going to extend that up

[1:11:08] through for this next house and I think

[1:11:10] you said something about putting in a

[1:11:12] parking area there and stuff. Does it

[1:11:16] make more sense? I mean, we can do what

[1:11:18] we need to do to let it go and we can go

[1:11:20] through the process to take it to a

[1:11:22] three, get the turnaround that we need

[1:11:24] for the town. Does that make everybody

[1:11:27] happy? Get get a parking area up there

[1:11:29] for the hikers and the people that are

[1:11:31] using the letting use. I don't know what you guys want. That's the only

[1:11:36] people that we've had that wanted to

[1:11:39] park, they were hunters and they

[1:11:42] traditionally park down here and walk

[1:11:44] up. As a matter of fact, do you mind

[1:11:47] funny story?

[1:11:50] It was a a night that there was supposed

[1:11:52] to be a significant shooting stars. I

[1:11:55] mean, at like 4 in the morning, we

[1:11:57] actually got out of bed and we're

[1:11:59] standing out here and we saw the guy

[1:12:02] park pitch dark like 4 in the morning

[1:12:05] and he's tiptoeing up through here and

[1:12:08] we hollered at him. He almost passed

[1:12:10] out. That scared us.

[1:12:13] What are you guys doing out here? 4 in

[1:12:15] the morning. He had no idea. But we're

[1:12:17] hunting just like you are.

[1:12:22] Anyway, but I don't tell anybody that we GPS used to say this was a way to get

[1:12:29] the old bow. We haven't had that for a

[1:12:31] long time. Um people come up and

[1:12:34] somebody came up turned around today,

[1:12:36] didn't they? Yes. Yeah. I mean, people

[1:12:39] just explore. Um and and we don't have

[1:12:42] any problem with that. as long as they

[1:12:43] don't smash into one of our cars. Uh the town right now comes up and they

[1:12:49] back in right about where my pickup

[1:12:51] truck is.

[1:12:53] Not perfect. We move some stone walls

[1:12:55] back to make it a little bit easier. uh

[1:12:57] if we can improve that a little bit

[1:12:59] more. Uh that was the goal was maybe to

[1:13:02] improve it a little bit more because

[1:13:03] even if it can't turn into a class four

[1:13:05] somewhere here it's got to be the town's

[1:13:08] got to turn around and cover because you

[1:13:11] got

[1:13:13] Yeah. Right in here to get the water to

[1:13:14] go out need something.

[1:13:17] Um Mr. Tara, where where are you at and

[1:13:20] what you want to put in there? Yeah, I

[1:13:23] mean the I would I think aesthetically

[1:13:26] speaking there's some big beautiful

[1:13:28] maples that are close to that rock wall

[1:13:30] there. So if we can narrow how much we

[1:13:34] actually have to go wide with the road.

[1:13:36] So I think the the like the legal trail

[1:13:39] um thought process permits us to be able

[1:13:42] to keep it relatively narrow still and

[1:13:45] not have to get rid of those big maples

[1:13:46] that have been there for, you know,

[1:13:48] decades and decades and decades. Um so

[1:13:50] we'd like to do that. um if we could,

[1:13:53] right? We don't want to upgrade the road

[1:13:55] so much so where we lose all those trees

[1:13:57] that have been there for, you know,

[1:13:59] probably 100 plus years, right? So, um

[1:14:02] that's our initial thought of it, but

[1:14:03] everything John's speaking about, I

[1:14:04] mean, we're in complete agreement with

[1:14:07] Have Have you

[1:14:09] Is this property already subdivided? Is

[1:14:12] the the lot that he's on, is it already

[1:14:14] a subdivided lot? Can you back up to the

[1:14:17] ones with the orange line? Sure.

[1:14:20] Matters. It's divided by the road. The part in yellow is actually a

[1:14:25] separate lot. Uh it doesn't need to be

[1:14:27] subdivided. Okay. And now that's where

[1:14:30] he's

[1:14:31] It gets a little tricky. Yeah.

[1:14:36] But I didn't.

[1:14:38] Well, so are you dedicating that whole

[1:14:40] lot as their their building? And

[1:14:44] so technically they have frontage. We

[1:14:46] love our daughter and son-in-law because

[1:14:49] if we deed them this lot,

[1:14:52] they get our burn, right?

[1:14:56] You don't get to use it, but you're

[1:14:58] going to own it.

[1:15:00] We have frontage on a class 3 town

[1:15:03] highway. So, that makes it a legal

[1:15:04] building, right? You just ask and use

[1:15:06] the trail as a driveway to access this

[1:15:09] new house. Yes. Right. We And because

[1:15:12] it's open, somebody anybody else could

[1:15:14] drive it. Um, you can't if it's open

[1:15:18] traffic, it's open to traffic. And and I

[1:15:22] Joe, didn't we talk about making some

[1:15:24] kind of little hammerhead there so that

[1:15:27] if somebody inadvertently comes up

[1:15:28] through there, they aren't driving all

[1:15:29] the way up to the house? Would it be

[1:15:31] accept fire and police and emergency

[1:15:33] vehicles? That hasn't been discussed.

[1:15:36] That would be discussed with the new

[1:15:38] fire chief to make sure that the

[1:15:40] radiuses are okay. So there's no call to

[1:15:42] just because you want to make it a

[1:15:44] driver doesn't mean you have to widen

[1:15:45] it. It's already a 50 foot wide rideway

[1:15:47] as long as it's that's correct wide

[1:15:49] enough to get vehicles through there.

[1:15:51] shouldn't be any need to widen it.

[1:15:54] And even think about taking it to a

[1:15:56] class three. Two things. It would look

[1:15:58] like the Dickens because you'd cut all

[1:16:00] the maple trees down and it wouldn't

[1:16:02] match this half. It doesn't meet class

[1:16:03] three standards either. Right.

[1:16:06] I'm okay with it. Now the agreement that

[1:16:08] was proposed by the attorney, it's only

[1:16:12] for your daughter and son. Is that

[1:16:15] correct? It's not transferable at that

[1:16:17] house. If they decide not to build the

[1:16:19] house or they circumstances change, they

[1:16:21] build a house and they have to leave and

[1:16:23] go somewhere else. Do all this this

[1:16:26] agreement would apply to current and

[1:16:28] future owners of this property?

[1:16:32] That's a good question. I don't have a

[1:16:33] definitive answer. Yeah, I think that

[1:16:35] would make sense. Yeah,

[1:16:38] someday we'll be dead and gone. Uh, and

[1:16:42] uh hopefully sometime soon. Yeah, but uh

[1:16:44] at that time um they may decide that it

[1:16:48] makes more sense to try to come up with

[1:16:49] a 10acre lot cuz we own beyond

[1:16:54] there's actually three parcels there and

[1:16:57] uh we owned a significant chunk beyond

[1:17:01] to the souththeast of or smuggly south

[1:17:04] of of the lot that was outlined in

[1:17:06] yellow. How big is this lot? They want

[1:17:11] to know that wasn't 20.

[1:17:15] Yeah, I can't remember off the top of my

[1:17:16] head. I believe it was about 20 acres,

[1:17:19] just a little.

[1:17:23] It was pinned and and on GIF, so you can

[1:17:26] it'll actually tell you what it is, but

[1:17:27] I don't recall. It's more than 10.

[1:17:29] What's the zoning in the street? 10.

[1:17:32] So, you have a legal building lot.

[1:17:34] You've got frontage on two class three

[1:17:37] town highways. So, you don't have to

[1:17:39] worry about that. So, he just looking

[1:17:40] for a driveway. Yeah. Yes. Is there any

[1:17:42] other reason why he can't create a

[1:17:44] driveway off the class three?

[1:17:46] Is this a money-saving thing or Joe?

[1:17:50] Yeah, it's I mean some of that is under

[1:17:53] consideration for sure, but also just

[1:17:55] when any type of future subdivision

[1:17:57] might happen or subdividing it out, I

[1:18:00] think it makes more sense for it to

[1:18:02] follow that line. Um

[1:18:05] up um as we reviewed it with John, we

[1:18:07] felt like that was the best practice.

[1:18:11] So, this is opening the door to future

[1:18:13] development by allowing this driveway on

[1:18:15] a trail. Well, we we've been talking to

[1:18:18] um Upper Valley, we we don't intend for

[1:18:21] it to lead to more de uh to more

[1:18:24] development. We've been talking to um

[1:18:28] Yeah. But but the people at the Upper

[1:18:30] Valley Land Trust are giving away more

[1:18:33] of our development. Incidentally, um

[1:18:36] just another thing if you subdivide it, creates well actually we still got a

[1:18:40] hurdle to go through with our land trust

[1:18:42] because even if we sell them to CC and

[1:18:45] Joe, we have to get permission from

[1:18:47] them. Uh because they have a

[1:18:52] develop they have easements on from

[1:18:55] about here to another stone wall here in

[1:18:59] conservation.

[1:19:01] Uh so everything like right here it's a

[1:19:04] conservation uh there where they're

[1:19:06] proposing the house. You can see a

[1:19:08] clearing right here that's not it's just

[1:19:11] this side of it is where the

[1:19:13] conservation stone wall that comes from

[1:19:15] this pin here and basically goes

[1:19:17] straight to another stone wall and then

[1:19:19] there's a swath of a conservation that

[1:19:22] goes all the way over to bridge. Um but

[1:19:26] this development site is outside of the

[1:19:28] conation. Well, we still get over the

[1:19:29] hurdle of um a permission to to uh sell

[1:19:36] that lot or and this isn't a real good

[1:19:39] option. We own it and they build on it

[1:19:42] and and that's not a real good option.

[1:19:44] That's going to create a major hurdle at

[1:19:46] some point. But we we actually haven't

[1:19:49] heard back from them. No. Um because we

[1:19:52] did with we actually got them out there

[1:19:55] and we walked the entire perimeter of

[1:19:59] the conserved land because their wordage

[1:20:02] reference the seller hole that doesn't

[1:20:04] exist. Uh it reference it says it's 25

[1:20:08] ft off the old cellar hole and the only

[1:20:11] thing we can think of is there used to

[1:20:13] be an addition on the barn and and I put

[1:20:14] a stake up and it lines up perfectly

[1:20:17] with this stone wall and the next stone

[1:20:19] wall and this is the land that protects

[1:20:20] the historic not going around skyline.

[1:20:24] No no like they didn't know either. So

[1:20:29] that they were supposed to I think they

[1:20:31] didn't they say they were trying to

[1:20:32] clean that up? Yes, because that also

[1:20:34] references a stone wall up here and the

[1:20:37] stone wall isn't there. It's down here

[1:20:39] and and they were in agreement that

[1:20:40] that's where it is.

[1:20:42] Hey, uh I love the the land lesson, but

[1:20:46] the real question is around the

[1:20:48] upgrading and maintenance of the road,

[1:20:49] right? The rest go through permitting

[1:20:52] and and and do all that as far as

[1:20:55] whether you can do whatever or not. Um,

[1:20:58] so I what I wonder is because I think

[1:21:01] it's important to be consistent is

[1:21:03] what's the process if it's a class 4 to

[1:21:05] give uh people the ability to write

[1:21:07] maintain or or or improve that road. Um,

[1:21:11] and what's been the process of for a

[1:21:13] trail in the past for maintaining uh

[1:21:15] because we're not right dictating

[1:21:17] whether you intend to subdivide or not

[1:21:19] whatever uh like that that that'll be up

[1:21:22] to you at some point uh as land owners.

[1:21:24] What we're what all we're doing all the

[1:21:26] request I see is can we can we upgrade

[1:21:29] that to use it to access

[1:21:33] whether it's the field or a home right

[1:21:35] uh it doesn't matter if they build to me

[1:21:37] the request is it doesn't matter if they

[1:21:39] build the house or not they're just

[1:21:40] asking for being able to upgrade it to

[1:21:42] maybe potentially build it which gives

[1:21:44] us context but it could be to be doing a

[1:21:46] lot of work in that the field right or

[1:21:49] on the in the wood lot uh so that so I

[1:21:52] just we need to you know consist process

[1:21:55] for whether it's class 4 or a trail or

[1:21:58] when when we consider it allowable or

[1:22:00] not allowable and to make sure that it's

[1:22:03] right and it's clear whenever that

[1:22:06] happens whether it's this trail or a

[1:22:09] different trail uh that it's clear who's

[1:22:11] maintaining what uh and so if somebody

[1:22:14] drives a monster truck down there and

[1:22:16] wrecks it was right because much as I

[1:22:20] like mud season roads um uh that I mean

[1:22:25] so we're just clear about that and that

[1:22:26] just there's a decision-m process I'm

[1:22:29] guessing you've decided the board has

[1:22:31] decided stuff like this in the past on

[1:22:33] class 4 roads uh and it seems like if

[1:22:36] there is a process in place for class 4

[1:22:39] roads and it seems similar to to a trail

[1:22:42] then that's the process we should use to

[1:22:44] make the decision

[1:22:47] and that's ahead if the board is more

[1:22:51] comfortable with it going to a for the

[1:22:54] hoops aren't uh astronomical, but

[1:22:57] nonetheless, it's not a whole lot

[1:22:59] different than the road that you abandon

[1:23:01] off of Cook Strong Road. You know, you

[1:23:04] got to go and framulate. You got to do

[1:23:05] this, you got to do that to to go from a

[1:23:08] trail to a four and and then when it's

[1:23:11] all that said and done, we come in and

[1:23:13] ask a class 4 and the end results

[1:23:15] exactly the same.

[1:23:18] I just I just think we need a consistent

[1:23:19] process that we follow. I mean, we have

[1:23:21] one

[1:23:23] and and right now it's in the hands of

[1:23:25] the DIB is where that would be. Um John

[1:23:29] is same is this this is sort of uh a

[1:23:34] breakdown from the previous uh

[1:23:36] submission to the planning commission

[1:23:38] for subdivision that it's not on the

[1:23:40] back burner and this is a resurrection

[1:23:42] of it. Uh that that's what I was

[1:23:44] wondering. Now, if I recall from that,

[1:23:49] isn't the property

[1:23:52] um as as we're looking at this your your

[1:23:54] side where your house is and and that lower lot, isn't that three to five

[1:24:00] on that side of the road?

[1:24:03] I I think we found that shaded as 10,

[1:24:07] but uh I could be wrong. Regardless, I

[1:24:09] thought it was three to five on that

[1:24:11] side of the You may be right. You may be

[1:24:13] right. It's 10. It's 10. X10 on the

[1:24:15] other side and you were the way you were

[1:24:17] trying to break it out had to do with

[1:24:19] the conservation stuff that you didn't

[1:24:21] want to affect that. So you had moved

[1:24:23] and shifted and you were actually

[1:24:25] crossing the road and you would have

[1:24:27] been creating like a 3acre lot on the

[1:24:29] right hand side of the road. Yeah. That

[1:24:31] would have been in C10 which would have

[1:24:33] been non-conforming in the C10 area. Um,

[1:24:38] so but but but if you're if you're if

[1:24:41] you're going to stay on that side of

[1:24:42] that road, it's 3 to five. And unless

[1:24:46] this is actually a um accessory

[1:24:49] dwelling,

[1:24:51] then it probably should be going through

[1:24:52] planning, not planning, but DV now

[1:24:55] because they handle subdivisions. should

[1:24:58] I mean

[1:25:00] they I understand that

[1:25:02] but but it would if it's going to be an

[1:25:04] accessory dwelling you're putting a

[1:25:06] second building on No this isn't this

[1:25:09] isn't a residence on the plot the

[1:25:11] residence is on the other side of the

[1:25:12] road correct

[1:25:15] house what you're looking at that's the

[1:25:18] barn that's his house that's the

[1:25:20] proposed house but this building here is

[1:25:22] a barn okay

[1:25:24] John's house is on the other side the

[1:25:26] tea

[1:25:27] Okay. Yes. So that would be the only

[1:25:30] residence on the slot. There's no

[1:25:31] subdividing me.

[1:25:34] Nothing but memory because I had

[1:25:36] forgotten that they didn't talk about

[1:25:38] going across the road to come up with

[1:25:40] the right uh Yeah. And then you get into

[1:25:43] a kind of a sticky wicket. Yeah. Yeah.

[1:25:47] That's what I recall happening

[1:25:49] there. I'm not not trying to stop this.

[1:25:51] I'm just trying to find the easiest and

[1:25:52] the right avenue. Like I said, you're

[1:25:54] right in consistency in the process. Um

[1:26:00] I think Yeah, I saw writing his hand up.

[1:26:02] I might took a pause there. I was

[1:26:04] waiting to see if he was going to

[1:26:06] continue. No, it's okay.

[1:26:10] So, I did do a bunch of research on this

[1:26:12] to find out what the best way is for the

[1:26:13] town and the residents. Um you can keep

[1:26:16] it a trail and they can get permission

[1:26:18] to work on a trail just like get

[1:26:20] permission to work on class 4 road. Um

[1:26:23] that would the same process would be put

[1:26:25] on if they want to do something down

[1:26:26] there or any other legal trail we have

[1:26:28] in town. It would be discussion in the

[1:26:30] same process. Um if we make it a class

[1:26:33] four we're going to have legal expenses.

[1:26:35] We're going to have a lot of time and

[1:26:36] energy put into laying it out and coming

[1:26:38] to hearings. I know it's doesn't seem

[1:26:40] like a big deal but it is a lot of work

[1:26:42] and it is an extra expense to the town.

[1:26:44] um we can achieve the same goals by

[1:26:46] keeping this trail and keep it easy for

[1:26:48] these folks if there's ever a desire to

[1:26:50] 30 years down the road subdivide this

[1:26:53] will be here anyway hopefully I'll be

[1:26:54] done by then um but it'll go through the

[1:26:57] process of zoning and everything else

[1:26:58] all the regulations if they want to make

[1:27:00] it class three road then they would have

[1:27:01] to bring it up the specs and then down

[1:27:03] could could or could not take it off so

[1:27:05] this is the best way I can come up with

[1:27:08] to describe it to Brandon and and John

[1:27:10] and these folks on how to do it and all

[1:27:13] the books and make it reasonable with

[1:27:16] everybody. So, we are following that

[1:27:20] procedure to do class. We did meet with

[1:27:22] the town attorney on this because the

[1:27:24] proposal was to use legal trail six. Um,

[1:27:28] it wasn't to change it to a class four

[1:27:30] road or a class three road. Um so what

[1:27:33] we we recommended here is in this

[1:27:36] paragraph here came from the town

[1:27:38] attorney. Um these would be our proposed

[1:27:41] next steps on the board

[1:27:45] and the thing is to protect the town and the residents that

[1:27:50] are having the house there and make sure

[1:27:52] we understands and it's clearly written

[1:27:54] and defined that this is a public road.

[1:27:57] No private signs. So they can post their

[1:27:59] driveway and say keep out. But people

[1:28:00] are going to be able to drive up this

[1:28:02] road if they accidentally drive up it

[1:28:04] and you're not going to be able to chase

[1:28:05] them off pitch books or whatever. You

[1:28:07] know that that's what I'm trying to

[1:28:08] protect us from. Um

[1:28:11] and it would be you know IRF would

[1:28:13] discuss it with the fire, you know, fire

[1:28:15] apparatus be good turn fire truck and

[1:28:18] park there and another truck can go in a

[1:28:20] fire. you know, it's all kind of has

[1:28:22] been and and one other thing, there is

[1:28:25] precedence in the trail being improved

[1:28:27] and not very far from where we live. Um,

[1:28:30] if you go out uh you lane and where it

[1:28:33] turns into a trail has been

[1:28:35] significantly improved. It was done

[1:28:37] primarily for logging trucks, but

[1:28:39] nonetheless, it significantly improved.

[1:28:42] I think that went before the board, but

[1:28:44] um maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but I

[1:28:46] don't think it did. Um and and but I'm

[1:28:49] going to back and I hope that this

[1:28:52] triggers a review of the policy u so

[1:28:56] that it's more definitive answer on what

[1:28:58] you can and cannot do on the trail. Can

[1:29:00] you gain it uh when it more or less

[1:29:03] becomes a dependent road or do you have

[1:29:04] to leave it open to put up signage no

[1:29:06] vehicle? I don't know. But um you may

[1:29:09] want to look at that. There are other

[1:29:10] trails in town that probably need to be

[1:29:13] addressed so this discussion is easier

[1:29:16] to have. Kelly, there there is another

[1:29:19] place that I do recall the ancient roads

[1:29:23] committee issue and when those those

[1:29:26] roads came up or those conversions to

[1:29:29] trails or whatever at that time uh a

[1:29:33] trail did say that no motorized needs

[1:29:37] and so so we do need to find that and

[1:29:40] make sure that got changed. Um and and

[1:29:44] the other thing is in in this proposed

[1:29:47] um uh next steps, the four next steps,

[1:29:51] would it be appropriate to to include

[1:29:53] the Arisons in some of that? I know

[1:29:55] we're talking about changing the trail,

[1:29:57] but the road and the trail are kind of

[1:30:00] one and and if you're talking about

[1:30:02] changes that are needed, they've

[1:30:03] mentioned a few and what's going on.

[1:30:05] Should they be listed in there? Is just

[1:30:07] to make sure that everybody that's up

[1:30:09] there is on the same page and it's part

[1:30:11] of your It's up to you guys. I don't

[1:30:13] have a problem meeting with the TARS and

[1:30:15] the Arisons to review. Um I I just you

[1:30:20] know if we're going to move in that

[1:30:22] direction I'm just suggesting maybe your

[1:30:25] names are in the these

[1:30:28] right we are still the owner of that

[1:30:30] lot. Yeah. And um that we haven't gotten

[1:30:33] that part of that and how we're going to

[1:30:35] handle that.

[1:30:40] We have discussed what happens if you

[1:30:42] guys get divorced.

[1:30:46] This being that nonetheless, things

[1:30:48] happen. Yeah. And if somebody else own

[1:30:51] the barn across the road,

[1:30:55] you start charging rent. Yeah.

[1:30:58] Feeling fluffy. And now now is divorce.

[1:31:01] I mean he says that but I think it is

[1:31:03] important right because might not be

[1:31:05] owned by the same family and that's the

[1:31:08] way it has to be considered.

[1:31:10] Well that's what brought me back to the

[1:31:12] uh the DRB and the planning commission

[1:31:15] which gave up the subdivisions because

[1:31:17] you do have property on both sides of

[1:31:19] the roads here. But I do I do recall

[1:31:22] this this lower section is three to

[1:31:24] five. pretty sure on the

[1:31:27] that would be the south side of the

[1:31:29] class three where your barn is, right?

[1:31:31] Yep. That's that's the south side. Yeah.

[1:31:33] Right. I'm pretty I'm I'm positive that

[1:31:37] side is three to five maybe. Right. And and pretty from that from that

[1:31:42] subdivision you submitted a year or two

[1:31:44] ago. I think it was and the the other

[1:31:47] side is 10. So I think they got that law is over 10 acres 20 acres I

[1:31:52] think you said.

[1:31:54] could easily subdivide three acres off

[1:31:56] there and separate the barn from those

[1:31:59] if you wanted to do that. I'm just but I

[1:32:01] don't think any of that matters in this discussion. It doesn't in the

[1:32:05] future it may there's I'm just pointing

[1:32:08] out that it's the ability to do that.

[1:32:10] You don't have to do 10 acres on that

[1:32:11] over there for that house. And and there

[1:32:13] may be a way to to configure it so you

[1:32:16] don't have to do a land trust. We still

[1:32:18] own that land, right? And and they

[1:32:22] wouldn't we don't have front yard. But

[1:32:25] all I mean is we just have to be

[1:32:27] consistent around anytime anybody asked

[1:32:29] for a trail or change it from foot

[1:32:31] traffic only to motorized. We just have

[1:32:34] to have a that that's where we have to

[1:32:36] be consistent whether it's this

[1:32:37] situation or right any trail that's

[1:32:40] designated a trail you just be

[1:32:42] consistent on the process to change it

[1:32:45] to allow motorized or improvements. I'm

[1:32:48] all about improving the trails because I

[1:32:49] think they're a great asset to the town.

[1:32:52] Uh and I think it's done well by other

[1:32:54] communities who are using their class

[1:32:57] four roads and their their trails.

[1:33:00] Brandon, do you did you craft a motion

[1:33:02] for this? Uh to approve the request

[1:33:04] subject to conditions to be outlined in

[1:33:06] a formal agreement and its proposed next

[1:33:09] steps. So the select board, if it feels

[1:33:12] comfortable, would approve the request

[1:33:15] subject to conditions that the county

[1:33:17] attorney

[1:33:18] and I will create for the next meeting.

[1:33:22] Okay. So you don't need a motion to make

[1:33:24] or you do. I don't I don't I'm not

[1:33:26] ready.

[1:33:28] That's where I was trying to get, you

[1:33:30] know, I wanted John I wanted John in

[1:33:32] here, Patty's answer. So, you guys want

[1:33:35] us to negotiate an agreement prior to a

[1:33:38] motion? I do. Okay. I think personally

[1:33:41] just there seem to be a lot of

[1:33:43] uncertainties. Number one, it's a

[1:33:45] precedent to allow residential

[1:33:46] development off of a trail and I'm not

[1:33:49] sure what kind of Pandora's box that

[1:33:52] might open. I'm I'm more comfortable

[1:33:55] with I know we have given permission

[1:33:57] when I say we I mean this board has

[1:33:59] given permission for people to

[1:34:03] develop residential properties off of

[1:34:05] class 4 town highways that we've done

[1:34:08] before and I'm I'm I'm more comfortable

[1:34:11] with that than I am. This seems like a

[1:34:15] house of cards to me a little bit. It's

[1:34:17] this very specific situation. Um the

[1:34:21] future I want to make an agreement that

[1:34:24] is going to be solid through the future

[1:34:26] regardless of who the parties are that

[1:34:28] are involved so that we're not keeping

[1:34:31] track of are they still married? Are you

[1:34:33] guys still talking to each other? Um who

[1:34:37] who's taking care of the barn? I I just

[1:34:40] want to see us work out something that

[1:34:42] gives them the access that they want but

[1:34:44] is durable through the future regardless

[1:34:46] of who the property owners are and what

[1:34:49] trail we're talking about, right? Like

[1:34:50] this is about this trail, but there's

[1:34:52] other trails.

[1:34:54] Do we want to allow development on

[1:34:56] trails or do we want But what what

[1:34:58] you're bringing up doesn't isn't that

[1:35:00] what we did at the planning commission

[1:35:01] with subdivision?

[1:35:03] Well, subdivision you have to have

[1:35:05] frontage on on a high on a town highway

[1:35:07] and a trail is not a town highway. Class

[1:35:10] is class which is back to your point

[1:35:13] which you've given permission. But but

[1:35:15] when you're talking about the future and

[1:35:16] longevity and all of that stuff, you're back to creating a lot that is

[1:35:23] usable in the future. What we talk about

[1:35:26] providing access to a lot that's durable

[1:35:29] over time, not a specific agreement for

[1:35:32] this particular situation in these

[1:35:35] particular parties that may not hold up

[1:35:37] in the future.

[1:35:40] Well, that's why I'm thinking

[1:35:41] subdivision is probably I don't see that

[1:35:44] subdivision is necessary in this case.

[1:35:47] There is a freestanding lot. It's

[1:35:48] naturally created by the roads that

[1:35:50] surround it. There's no other house on

[1:35:54] this lot. So, subdivision isn't

[1:35:56] necessary. Okay. If they want to divide

[1:35:58] the house off from the barn, then that

[1:36:01] becomes they still have front edge on

[1:36:03] the center road here. Whether it's

[1:36:04] accessible or not is never been

[1:36:07] required. Oh, I I see what you're

[1:36:09] saying. See what I'm saying? Yeah. See,

[1:36:10] technically they have this lot has

[1:36:13] usable frontage on two class 3 town

[1:36:16] highways. In fact, road is class two.

[1:36:19] Should we ask for review from the DRB on

[1:36:21] this? I don't think so. I think

[1:36:25] the question is, do we want to

[1:36:28] set by allowing residential development

[1:36:31] off of a trail?

[1:36:33] That that for me is my piece.

[1:36:36] I'm I'm more comfortable. Yes, it's just

[1:36:38] probably an academic exercise, but I I'm

[1:36:42] more comfortable with

[1:36:44] upgrading

[1:36:46] reclassifying that section of this trail

[1:36:48] to a class 4. It was class 4 before. Put

[1:36:51] it back to a class 4 and then give them

[1:36:54] permission to have their driveway off.

[1:36:56] Then it becomes a highway. And that for

[1:36:59] me solves a lot of regardless of the

[1:37:02] importance.

[1:37:05] Yeah. And being being a separate law,

[1:37:07] you know, you know, if you lose your

[1:37:08] barn, that's that's on you. Yeah. You

[1:37:11] might have to move it across.

[1:37:15] Well, I just and if we're diligent about

[1:37:17] it, the trans changing it from from a

[1:37:20] trail I understand your point completely

[1:37:23] um into changing it to that section to a

[1:37:26] class 4 could take place fairly rapidly

[1:37:30] with a few meetings and you guys come

[1:37:32] out and visit and all that. You get to

[1:37:34] see the pretty view and all that. I

[1:37:36] don't I don't see that as a as a Well,

[1:37:38] we can formulate it in the pouring

[1:37:40] array.

[1:37:42] I'll bring my Do we have to survey it?

[1:37:45] That's always been thrown up every time

[1:37:47] we try to reclassify the Crown Point

[1:37:49] Road to a trail. We have to survey.

[1:37:52] Yeah, we reclassified part of Katy Hill

[1:37:55] Road without surveying.

[1:37:58] We went from a class three to a class 4

[1:38:00] and it was not survey. We uh went from a

[1:38:03] class three to a trail. Well, whatever

[1:38:07] it was, you reclassified it without

[1:38:09] surveying. So, it's not like we've

[1:38:11] jumped on this before.

[1:38:14] What's the one What's the one off the

[1:38:16] Katy Hill that goes up to Binghams? We

[1:38:18] did that. That That one got upgraded.

[1:38:21] Yeah, that was changed. I I don't think

[1:38:23] that was right. You're still going to

[1:38:26] have a can of worms if you take and turn

[1:38:29] it into a class 4 so they can use it for

[1:38:31] their driveway. How you going to what's

[1:38:34] going to happen to every trail in town

[1:38:35] if somebody wants to to turn that into a

[1:38:37] class four? You're still going to be in

[1:38:39] the same the same legal basis, right?

[1:38:42] But you're still going to be in the same

[1:38:43] You're going to have to really do what's

[1:38:45] the policy for what's the criteria for

[1:38:47] making a trail to a class 4. It's in

[1:38:49] statute.

[1:38:51] I guess my point is if I came to you and

[1:38:53] I said I wanted to make

[1:38:56] another trail in town, a class 4, you

[1:38:58] told me no because you wanted to keep

[1:39:00] that a trail. How come you told them yes

[1:39:02] and telling me no? That's the point I'm

[1:39:04] trying to make with every case is

[1:39:05] different. Yeah. You have to review each

[1:39:08] case separately because every case is

[1:39:10] absolutely different depending on where

[1:39:12] you are at the public. We have a public

[1:39:15] meeting that gets warmed. Um we notify

[1:39:18] Butters

[1:39:21] if we're going to go through the class 4

[1:39:22] road process that's fine as well. In

[1:39:25] this case the butter list is pretty

[1:39:26] short.

[1:39:30] So,

[1:39:33] is there anything we have to do tonight

[1:39:35] for this or I I guess I'm just kind of

[1:39:38] looking for some direction. Do we want

[1:39:40] to go the class 4 road process or

[1:39:46] want me to kind of move in the direction

[1:39:47] of using the trail for the access? Do

[1:39:51] you guys want to see what both options

[1:39:54] look like for the next meeting?

[1:39:57] I don't want this to drag on too long

[1:39:58] for these folks. Yeah,

[1:40:01] we already did drag it on a little bit

[1:40:03] because I was looking to get guidance

[1:40:05] from town council on this. It did take a

[1:40:08] couple of couple of meetings to get back

[1:40:10] to it. Um, which isn't a

[1:40:14] request to rush the process. Well, I say

[1:40:18] perhaps the question we got to do is

[1:40:20] find out about that motorized vehicle

[1:40:21] thing they used to be paying. If that's

[1:40:24] I found anything I put something into

[1:40:26] the LCT the municipal assistance center

[1:40:28] to ask that question. I couldn't find

[1:40:30] any statuto reference to that, but I

[1:40:31] know it was in place on the ancient

[1:40:33] roads.

[1:40:35] If it was, it should be it should be

[1:40:36] repealed. There should be a number for

[1:40:38] it. It was would have been repealed.

[1:40:40] Would it be in somewhere located in the

[1:40:42] minutes or documents of our ancient

[1:40:43] roads? I I didn't come into the road.

[1:40:48] I put in a request for

[1:40:52] municipal see if you can I I think

[1:40:56] and and maybe that solves part of that

[1:40:59] problem but you're still talking about a

[1:41:02] trail and a and you know driveway access

[1:41:05] off in this case the trail is not being

[1:41:07] used as frontage

[1:41:10] technically if it was being used as

[1:41:13] frontage I would be adamant to vote in

[1:41:15] the last war But it's not. There's

[1:41:19] plenty of frontage on this lot to

[1:41:20] satisfy that require. They just want a

[1:41:23] driveway.

[1:41:41] I'm ready. Would be okay.

[1:41:47] to come back to the select board with an

[1:41:49] avenue for both and answer all the

[1:41:51] questions and then they can make a

[1:41:52] choice to whether go to class 4 trail

[1:41:55] get more answers on the motorized

[1:41:57] vehicle and the process and all that.

[1:42:00] Absolutely. prepared to the next meeting

[1:42:03] June 23rd. Yeah, if that's the way the

[1:42:05] board wants, you know,

[1:42:12] if if that's where we go, then we

[1:42:15] parallel request to upgrade a class four

[1:42:17] road exactly the same time so we get to

[1:42:20] the finish line together.

[1:42:22] That way we know the whole process for

[1:42:23] both and you guys can make a decision

[1:42:25] based on what we want updating for

[1:42:28] policies.

[1:42:29] Do you want to see what a general policy

[1:42:32] would look like? We don't show these as

[1:42:34] well.

[1:42:37] Not

[1:42:39] to do it. Okay. Let's bring this to the

[1:42:42] finish line. All right.

[1:42:45] I agree.

[1:42:50] Thank you.

[1:42:52] This is

[1:42:54] Thank you. We see you at our next

[1:42:56] meeting. Yes, absolutely. Thank you.

[1:43:00] Started rolling it down. We'll figure it

[1:43:02] out. Yeah.

[1:43:04] Okay. Next item. Number 10, purchase and

[1:43:06] policy. The second reading.

[1:43:21] Um, what changed?

[1:43:24] Um, so there there have been some

[1:43:26] changes. Um, I received uh input from

[1:43:29] the treasurer and also the accountant.

[1:43:31] um upon the purching policy. We also

[1:43:34] made the changes that you requested in

[1:43:36] the last meeting which is number one. Um

[1:43:39] section 3.2

[1:43:41] removed the phrase except for employee

[1:43:43] reimbursement. We'll continue to use the

[1:43:46] existing one that's been working well.

[1:43:48] Um

[1:43:49] section 3.2 2, we added the requirement

[1:43:52] that all designates must be approved in

[1:43:54] advance for the kind of content,

[1:43:58] which is like if Ray State wanted to

[1:44:02] designate a person within the highway

[1:44:04] department to be able to make purchases

[1:44:07] on his behalf, the accountant would just

[1:44:09] need to be notified about that

[1:44:10] improvement.

[1:44:12] Um,

[1:44:14] section 3.2 remove the sentence.

[1:44:16] employee reimbursements regardless of

[1:44:18] the amount require a purchase order and

[1:44:19] prepared. Again, our existing form is

[1:44:22] working well. Um, and it seemed to be

[1:44:25] fine with the treasurer and also the

[1:44:26] accountant. Um, and so

[1:44:29] section 3.3 the wording by changing

[1:44:32] between to overt adjusted the threshold

[1:44:35] from 501 to 500 and added up to 4200. So

[1:44:39] it's just something

[1:44:43] 23 updated language

[1:44:45] to do not require the approval in

[1:44:47] advance from the town manager but should

[1:44:49] be submitted to the finance department

[1:44:51] within 72 hours. Um and again that's

[1:44:54] just so that the accountant can be

[1:44:56] informed

[1:44:58] um on any purchases that are made so she

[1:45:01] has an understanding when it comes to

[1:45:02] the warrant.

[1:45:04] Sections 3.4 4 replace between with over

[1:45:07] and add up to and then we added a new

[1:45:11] clause for employee reimbursements

[1:45:13] section 3.8 Okay.

[1:45:32] Is there, forgive me if this is a dumb

[1:45:36] question, the things that are eligible

[1:45:38] for reimbursement, is that categorized

[1:45:41] somewhere, listed somewhere, provided in

[1:45:43] the purchasing policy? Um so we the way

[1:45:47] we define that is um

[1:45:52] as a as an account expense that an

[1:45:55] employee made. So like if I think for in

[1:46:00] the highway department for example

[1:46:02] employees purchase boots and then they

[1:46:04] get reimbured for them. Um

[1:46:07] also occasionally if a an employee goes

[1:46:10] to a conference and then decides to stay

[1:46:13] overnight we pay for it in advance we

[1:46:15] would reimburse the hotel with hotel

[1:46:17] expenses. Um there are other common

[1:46:20] expenses like when the fire departments

[1:46:23] um are on scene and they buy coffee and

[1:46:25] donuts and they ask for reimbursement

[1:46:27] for that. So it's it's a lot of

[1:46:30] sometimes it's pizza. Has there been any

[1:46:36] difficulties with that years ago like

[1:46:39] but for the most part people understand

[1:46:41] they need to either ask ahead of time is

[1:46:43] this eligible or they make the correct

[1:46:45] assumption I haven't had any issues

[1:46:47] since I don't want to make it an issue

[1:46:49] if it's since 2020 I think was the last

[1:46:53] issue with expense reimbursements and it

[1:46:56] was cleared up so if it becomes an issue

[1:46:59] we could always spell it out there but

[1:47:01] absolutely right now it's not a No, not

[1:47:04] at all. Yeah, it seems like if it was a

[1:47:07] request for something that would be an

[1:47:09] issue, it wouldn't be denied. As long as

[1:47:11] they seem to ask, too. If they don't and

[1:47:13] assume it's going to be okay and it's

[1:47:15] not punishable. Well, problem. Well,

[1:47:19] exactly.

[1:47:21] But, um, I don't want to make it a

[1:47:22] problem. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's very

[1:47:24] reasonable. Yeah. That I've worked with

[1:47:26] in the past and and currently. And this

[1:47:29] is all receipts. Receipt. It's called

[1:47:32] reimbursement. you know, you have to

[1:47:33] produce a receipt for the hotel room or

[1:47:35] the boots or whatever. The biggest

[1:47:38] issues we were having in the past is not

[1:47:39] receiving receipts

[1:47:42] and we didn't like that too much because

[1:47:44] like you go to the pizza shop, you get a

[1:47:47] couple of pizzas. We just want to be

[1:47:49] sure that it's not fair or anything in

[1:47:51] there. It's something that the treasurer

[1:47:53] really wanted. um

[1:47:56] has to be an item just so that we can

[1:48:00] have the newspaper that shows it. Plus,

[1:48:02] it I don't think any employee would

[1:48:04] actually ask for reimbursement, but

[1:48:08] maybe it went back

[1:48:13] to the third reading. Okay, second.

[1:48:16] Any discussion?

[1:48:18] All those in favor? I I

[1:48:22] next time.

[1:48:26] And uh

[1:48:30] yeah, Brian Dumbart, you're up next for

[1:48:32] the nuisance and unkempt property

[1:48:34] ordinance.

[1:48:37] Okay.

[1:48:39] Is that in your packet? Because I didn't

[1:48:41] see it in there. I don't see it either.

[1:48:44] There's nothing in it. Yeah, Ryan. I

[1:48:46] didn't have it in my bingo.

[1:48:49] I think I had texted and asked if you

[1:48:52] had sent it.

[1:48:55] Okay. You you read the email that uh it

[1:48:57] was shared with the the town attorney.

[1:49:00] Um he was still reviewing it. We weren't

[1:49:02] sure if he was going to have any

[1:49:03] comments in time for tonight's meeting.

[1:49:05] Um he hasn't he has some general

[1:49:08] comments, you know, that an ordinance is

[1:49:11] a good idea. It's probably the the more

[1:49:14] effective way to handle these issues.

[1:49:16] Um, but I have a draft. He's reviewing

[1:49:19] it. Um, do you how do you want to hand

[1:49:22] do you want me to sort of go over the gist of it just so you're familiar

[1:49:25] with it when it comes around again? Um,

[1:49:28] or do you want to wait for that?

[1:49:31] I have it up. Basically, I can tell you

[1:49:33] the purpose and how things are defined

[1:49:34] and how it works generally.

[1:49:39] Ryan, you can also share your screen if

[1:49:42] you'd like. Okay.

[1:49:46] Well, I guess I can request access from

[1:49:47] you. Yeah, I sent request.

[1:49:56] Okay.

[1:50:04] Are you seeing it?

[1:50:06] You want me to make it bigger?

[1:50:09] Well,

[1:50:15] That work?

[1:50:21] Can you hear me? Is that working?

[1:50:24] Yeah, it's working. We're just like

[1:50:26] reorganizing the screen a little bit

[1:50:29] from the top. Well, I think in generally

[1:50:31] though, just give us a summary because I

[1:50:33] want to end this.

[1:50:38] Sure. So, I'll just I'll read you the

[1:50:40] purpose and then we'll go through kind

[1:50:41] of how it works. The purpose of this

[1:50:43] ordinance is to protect public health,

[1:50:45] safety, and welfare, preserve

[1:50:47] neighborhood character, and promote

[1:50:48] responsible property stewardship by

[1:50:50] providing the town with a comprehensive

[1:50:52] framework to identify, respond to, and

[1:50:54] resolve conditions on properties that

[1:50:56] constitute nuisances or unckempt

[1:50:58] property. The ordinance is designed to

[1:51:01] work in coordination with zoning,

[1:51:02] health, and solid waste laws to provide

[1:51:05] the town with a flexible and enforcable

[1:51:07] set of tools, including and the

[1:51:10] including the ability to abate

[1:51:11] violations and recover associated costs

[1:51:14] via enforcable leans. And so when when

[1:51:17] we talked the first time, I just sort of

[1:51:19] brought it up as a general question

[1:51:21] about how the board feels about this

[1:51:22] issue of properties becoming um overrun

[1:51:27] with with junk and discarded items or or

[1:51:30] things that people say are their their

[1:51:32] possessions um hoarding situations,

[1:51:35] different things like that that I get

[1:51:38] somewhat frequent um complaints about.

[1:51:42] and the zoning

[1:51:44] path for violations in compliance is

[1:51:48] just not that um effective or

[1:51:51] costefficient. So, if I were to issue a

[1:51:55] violation on a property

[1:51:58] um for this this reason, um one of the

[1:52:02] avenues that's been tried in the past

[1:52:05] under past administrators

[1:52:07] um is to issue a violation that the

[1:52:11] property owner is operating a junkyard

[1:52:14] as defined without a permit to do so.

[1:52:18] Um, and that has been appealed to the zoning board in the past who

[1:52:25] basically said that the zoning bylaw the

[1:52:27] definition was too vague um and it

[1:52:29] wasn't enforceable. And so since then

[1:52:32] nothing's changed with the the

[1:52:33] definition of that. But um even if the

[1:52:37] board upheld it um and there was a

[1:52:41] active violation on the property, in

[1:52:43] theory that means that it gets fined on

[1:52:45] a daily basis. But in practice, it does

[1:52:48] need to be um the the select board needs

[1:52:51] to dictate that this goes to the court

[1:52:54] and then the environmental court needs

[1:52:56] to agree um with the town's decision and

[1:52:59] they then set the the fines and the

[1:53:03] amount um and when they become

[1:53:05] effective. Usually they're a little bit

[1:53:07] more lenient. They'll give you 6 months

[1:53:09] to clean up um where maybe this has

[1:53:11] already been going on for 6 months or

[1:53:13] more. Um and so the primary difference

[1:53:17] is that a st an ordinance on its own

[1:53:20] separate from zoning has the ability to

[1:53:22] create a lean on the property and um

[1:53:27] issue fines kind of like um ticketing

[1:53:31] fees. Um,

[1:53:34] so there's a definition section that

[1:53:36] talks about what a nuisance

[1:53:40] property is and what unckempt property

[1:53:42] is and how those are different. Um, it

[1:53:46] defines who the enforcement officer is

[1:53:48] and a person which is an individual or a

[1:53:52] group um, basically a land owner.

[1:53:56] Um, so those are some things that we

[1:53:58] that might be worth discussing after you

[1:54:00] have some time to look at it is those

[1:54:01] definitions and I'm sure that the

[1:54:03] attorney will have some some advice on

[1:54:06] those. Um,

[1:54:11] so there's I guess the next section just

[1:54:14] sort of clarifies

[1:54:16] what um

[1:54:18] what this ordinance does. And then the

[1:54:21] enforcement framework

[1:54:23] section basically says there there could

[1:54:26] be a zoning option if that's the best

[1:54:28] way to handle it. Um and it can be

[1:54:31] handled through a notice of violation if

[1:54:33] there's a health situation like um

[1:54:36] someone has a lot of garbage and it's

[1:54:38] bringing in um rats or something like

[1:54:41] that and there's documentation. another

[1:54:43] issue that's been kind of hard to move

[1:54:45] forward with because the documentation

[1:54:48] of that is difficult and it doesn't

[1:54:50] really address things ahead of time.

[1:54:51] There has to be rats already causing a

[1:54:54] public health problem um before anything

[1:54:57] can be done there, but that that's still

[1:54:59] an option. Um we do have a solid waste

[1:55:02] ordinance. Um it doesn't talk about

[1:55:06] enforcement or anything like that. um

[1:55:09] but another potential avenue. And then

[1:55:12] under this ordinance, um the enforcement

[1:55:16] officer would issue a municipal

[1:55:18] complaint. I'm not sure if that's the

[1:55:19] appropriate term. The the attorney will clarify that. Um and the violations

[1:55:25] will be subject to penalties. And so

[1:55:27] there's a section that talks about how

[1:55:29] those penalties work. Um

[1:55:35] so it talks about um

[1:55:38] violations that don't get resolved um

[1:55:41] and how the town can um can recover any

[1:55:46] costs associated with this um cost

[1:55:50] incured by the town shall be build to

[1:55:52] the property owner and if unpaid after

[1:55:54] 30 days the town may record a cost as a

[1:55:57] lean against the property and

[1:56:00] that gives the town some actual leverage

[1:56:03] to uh to take take their own action. Um

[1:56:09] and so in practice sometimes what that

[1:56:11] looks like and I I think I brought it up

[1:56:13] last time is what Windsor has done in

[1:56:16] the past from time to time is get a

[1:56:19] dumpster and put it on the property and

[1:56:20] say fill the dumpster and we'll get rid

[1:56:22] of it or something like that. Um maybe

[1:56:24] that means that they'll build them

[1:56:25] afterwards. Ultimately, what we're what

[1:56:27] the goal is is compliance and fixing the

[1:56:29] issue. Um, so if that's if paying for a

[1:56:33] dumpster fixes the issue, that might be

[1:56:35] a whole lot cheaper than going to court.

[1:56:37] Um, and then so the next section talks

[1:56:40] about the penalties. Um, and those

[1:56:43] numbers are just sort of starting points

[1:56:45] and uh the attorney and and you all

[1:56:48] should look at those and whether those

[1:56:50] are appropriate or not. Um,

[1:56:54] and then

[1:56:56] let's see. In addition to penalties, the

[1:56:58] town may seek injunctive relief,

[1:57:00] including cleanup orders, entering the

[1:57:02] property to abate the condition, um,

[1:57:05] recover all associated abatement costs

[1:57:07] from the owner, and file a lean on the

[1:57:08] land records. Um,

[1:57:11] that's that's the majority of it.

[1:57:15] Do you have any questions on that?

[1:57:28] I don't hear anybody say well I I've got

[1:57:30] a lot of them but I mean not right now

[1:57:33] until I have the document completely to

[1:57:35] go over

[1:57:37] and look at. Um any questions about the

[1:57:41] concept

[1:57:43] of enforcing these things?

[1:57:46] The the one question I did have written

[1:57:48] down is and I know we've had this in our

[1:57:51] town um where the state uh was notified

[1:57:55] that there's some language where the

[1:57:57] state has to actually come in and

[1:57:58] declare a junkyard. Yeah. Right. I think

[1:58:03] that's in statute. And we we don't

[1:58:05] actually get to make that determination

[1:58:07] that

[1:58:09] we we have to ask the state for them to

[1:58:11] come in and and give that determination.

[1:58:13] I'm just going to direct that to the

[1:58:14] land use administrator. That question, I

[1:58:17] think that depends if we're going to be

[1:58:19] pursuing it as a state enforcement

[1:58:22] action or a town enforcement action. If

[1:58:23] we want the state to do the work, um

[1:58:26] they obviously need to make sure it

[1:58:28] meets their definitions. But if we're

[1:58:29] going to pursue it as a zoning

[1:58:30] violation, it just has to meet our

[1:58:32] zoning violation or zoning definitions.

[1:58:35] Um and the problem with the state

[1:58:39] enforcement is their capacity. they're

[1:58:41] such a it's such a big area and the

[1:58:44] number of these types of properties is

[1:58:45] really high. Um, and their ability to

[1:58:49] address some of the smaller ones, which

[1:58:52] would be the majority of what we're

[1:58:53] dealing with is it doesn't do it doesn't

[1:58:57] do much. Okay.

[1:59:00] Well, that answers that question.

[1:59:03] Um yeah, in definitions there's

[1:59:05] definitely some things that need to be

[1:59:07] clarified like interferes with um in

[1:59:11] number one um what would be considered

[1:59:14] interference

[1:59:16] uh by by a neighboring property uh to

[1:59:20] somebody reasonably reasonable use and

[1:59:23] enjoyment of their property. That would

[1:59:25] have to be specifically you'd have to

[1:59:27] know what that interference if what

[1:59:29] rises to interference.

[1:59:32] I' I'd have to know what that is.

[1:59:36] Um I mean it creates unsightly that's

[1:59:38] obvious.

[1:59:41] The other one violates I mean the other

[1:59:43] the rest of it is pretty obvious but

[1:59:45] interfering

[1:59:47] that's big. You know what does that

[1:59:49] mean? You know I mean is it so bad that

[1:59:51] it's blocking the road and I can't get

[1:59:52] to my property? Well, I think if someone

[1:59:55] wanted to submit a complaint about a

[1:59:57] property and that was the only section

[1:59:59] of this ordinance that applied to their

[2:00:01] situation, um I guess I can think of

[2:00:04] like rats might be a a situation like

[2:00:08] that and maybe the health ordin the

[2:00:10] health order is a better path, but um

[2:00:13] maybe not if they if they you know can't

[2:00:16] maintain their you know residential use

[2:00:18] of the property. So if they can't have

[2:00:20] like a garden or something like that

[2:00:22] because of the number of raccoons and

[2:00:25] you know different things that are there

[2:00:27] that might be interfering with their you

[2:00:29] know residential use of their property.

[2:00:32] Um and similarly a business might have complaints where their you know

[2:00:37] commercial use of their property is

[2:00:39] impacted by a neighbor's um you know

[2:00:43] their their condition. That would be one

[2:00:45] that I would see comes under one. The

[2:00:48] other the other couple that you

[2:00:50] mentioned are three and four. They're

[2:00:51] already there. But but that's

[2:00:55] what means.

[2:01:00] Yeah.

[2:01:02] Um if we can get a copy of that so we

[2:01:05] can look at it. Yeah. That'd be great.

[2:01:07] Yeah. So might have more questions that

[2:01:09] we might want to have clarified.

[2:01:14] Yep. Definitely. it. The the other thing

[2:01:17] I am concerned about is and this is for

[2:01:20] the for the town side of it is if we

[2:01:23] were to say, "Okay, you violated we're

[2:01:26] coming on your property and we're fixing

[2:01:28] your property." That's a scary thing. I

[2:01:31] think I mean

[2:01:34] you summed it up as saying that well

[2:01:36] maybe you see that as being a town maybe

[2:01:39] putting a dumpster there. Well, you

[2:01:40] still kind of got to get permission to

[2:01:42] do that, don't you?

[2:01:44] that that's what this ordinance does.

[2:01:46] That's that's kind of the the idea is as

[2:01:49] long as they've met the criteria in the

[2:01:51] ordinance and they haven't they've been

[2:01:53] given a due it does say after due

[2:01:55] notice. Um but they've been given you

[2:01:57] know the due process that's laid out in

[2:01:59] the ordinance and they've failed to

[2:02:01] comply then the next step is you know

[2:02:04] real action because that's kind of where

[2:02:06] our current regulations

[2:02:08] fade out is you can say all kinds of

[2:02:11] things but you can't you can't do

[2:02:12] anything about it. So that I think

[2:02:14] that's the that's ultimately the goal of

[2:02:16] this ordinance, which is why I'm kind of

[2:02:18] trying to feel out how the board feels

[2:02:20] about addressing the the issue. Um, but

[2:02:25] if it is something that that the board

[2:02:27] wants to pursue, um, I think that's kind

[2:02:30] of the idea.

[2:02:33] I I get that and I agree with you. I'm

[2:02:35] just a little concerned about showing up

[2:02:37] on somebody's property. Even even with

[2:02:40] all of this,

[2:02:42] you know, that could be quite the

[2:02:44] confrontation. Even even going through

[2:02:46] the process, it could still be a pretty

[2:02:50] busy confrontation. I I would assume the

[2:02:52] sheriffs would be there

[2:02:55] and stuff and you could you could be

[2:02:59] looking down the peril and come. You

[2:03:01] never know.

[2:03:07] fireworks shop. It's just a little bit

[2:03:09] of scary situation. I think that's all.

[2:03:12] I mean, I know we need the teeth. I that

[2:03:14] I understand.

[2:03:17] So, I think the next step was would be

[2:03:20] to get it in writing, right? One and and

[2:03:23] see what the attorney also says.

[2:03:26] If we can get if we can get a copy of

[2:03:28] that and then uh after we hear back from

[2:03:31] the attorney, we'd like to uh go over it

[2:03:33] again so we can get our two cents worth.

[2:03:37] I I got one little more two cents to go

[2:03:39] with that. Ryan, um should we ask the

[2:03:42] DRB uh to also maybe give some feedback

[2:03:46] on what they think the planning

[2:03:48] commission should do with the zoning

[2:03:50] bylaws to work with this?

[2:03:54] I just one one question on Well, I got a

[2:03:56] question on the floor first. I'm sorry.

[2:03:59] Go ahead.

[2:04:01] I guess that question is to Ryan. Okay.

[2:04:05] Should the DRB advise on this ordinance?

[2:04:08] Not not on this ordinance, but uh should

[2:04:10] the DRB uh u review the ordinance and

[2:04:13] review um the zoning bylaws that that

[2:04:16] are referenced because there are some

[2:04:18] references to zoning bylaws in the

[2:04:19] ordinance, right? Is there something

[2:04:21] more that could be done that that would

[2:04:23] be that they might

[2:04:26] uh request the planning commission look

[2:04:27] into um

[2:04:30] dealing with within the zoning bylaws?

[2:04:34] Might be more of a planning commission

[2:04:35] question. The DRB basically

[2:04:39] operates the what the with what the

[2:04:41] bylaws are. I don't think they've dealt

[2:04:43] with many um of these types of issues.

[2:04:47] There was that one that I mentioned

[2:04:49] maybe five or six years ago um that that

[2:04:52] was an appeal from a notice of violation

[2:04:55] was issued and the the uh the appel I

[2:04:59] guess the violator appealed. Um but

[2:05:02] other than that I don't know if they've you know that's really in their

[2:05:06] wheelhouse. It's kind of a legislative

[2:05:08] question. Should something be done in

[2:05:09] the bylaws to address it? I I understand

[2:05:12] that and being being one of the planning

[2:05:14] commissioners, I was kind of trying to

[2:05:16] get some help from somebody else while

[2:05:18] we're tying up to the town plan.

[2:05:21] Maybe I just don't think it's their

[2:05:23] role. No, they could make suggestions to

[2:05:26] us, I guess, is what I was looking for.

[2:05:28] They could suggestions that that kind of

[2:05:31] thing that would help us because like I

[2:05:33] said, we're we're we're we don't have a

[2:05:36] town plan right now. We're kind of

[2:05:37] focused on getting through that and we

[2:05:39] still got a ways to go. you know that

[2:05:41] you've done a lot of great work there

[2:05:43] and anyway

[2:05:47] I just want to add that uh well I agree

[2:05:49] with most of that especially when it

[2:05:51] comes to the health or junk and this and

[2:05:53] that well I would also add that if if

[2:05:56] someone's property so bad that it

[2:05:58] lowered the value of your place when you

[2:06:00] try to sell it but adding to that I

[2:06:02] would say having owned several acres in

[2:06:05] the Midwest in a HOA I would also warn

[2:06:08] against the town starting to operate

[2:06:10] like an HOA and like who's policing us,

[2:06:13] what what is decided, who's deciding

[2:06:15] what is unkempt, you know? I mean, uh,

[2:06:18] you know, we we dealt with that there

[2:06:20] where a guy did operate on a small had a

[2:06:24] small body shop and he had a couple two

[2:06:26] or three pads out back. Well, the HOA

[2:06:28] said, "No, you can't do that." Um, they

[2:06:30] can do that. It's, you know, these might

[2:06:33] be pass,

[2:06:34] you know, I I would warn a belt that,

[2:06:37] you know, you know, it's you're

[2:06:40] threading on thin ground.

[2:06:43] There there might be a need to identify

[2:06:46] a level. Yeah. Like if you're dealing

[2:06:49] with a junkyard or health hazard. Yeah.

[2:06:52] Um, you know, just what that is, right?

[2:06:54] Need to be more clearly defined. I mean

[2:06:57] that that happened years ago and with a body shop too. He had cars and he moved out of state went down south

[2:07:06] because he said I couldn't operate

[2:07:09] in this town. So

[2:07:21] Janette Rogue discussion it's a good job

[2:07:23] Ryan. Thank you Ryan. Thank you. All

[2:07:26] right. Thank you. Good night. Good

[2:07:29] night.

[2:07:32] This is a divorce

[2:07:34] road. Yeah, I brought this up. The folks

[2:07:36] on Janess Road have trouble getting

[2:07:39] packages because ever since the name was

[2:07:41] changed from Schoolhouse Road to Genesis

[2:07:44] Road

[2:07:45] GPS and nobody can get deliver

[2:07:54] um and and another resident on the road

[2:07:57] had told me that and confirmed it. It's a very similar situation to Stokes

[2:08:01] Road where the GPS

[2:08:04] sent people in the wrong place and and

[2:08:06] no nothing could change it. So the folks

[2:08:09] on that road came to the board and asked

[2:08:11] the board to change the name. I don't

[2:08:14] think that solved the problem. So I was

[2:08:16] just wondering would the board be

[2:08:17] considering would it consider changing

[2:08:20] the name of Jennis Road back to

[2:08:22] Schoolhouse Road so people can get their

[2:08:23] deliveries?

[2:08:25] I know it was your mom that asked to

[2:08:27] have it changed to Janess Road and I

[2:08:29] don't remember the reason why but it was

[2:08:31] originally intended to be Janess Road.

[2:08:34] Pardon? Was your mom who had asked to

[2:08:36] have it changed? I I think I don't

[2:08:40] recall that she was the person who asked

[2:08:41] to have it changed, but I think it was

[2:08:43] changed because Weathersfield has two

[2:08:45] schoolhouse roads and it was changed at

[2:08:47] the at the time of 911. Maybe she was

[2:08:50] the one that said that their name was

[2:08:52] originally intended to be the first as

[2:08:55] to change it. They were the first

[2:08:56] residents of that room. But it is true.

[2:08:59] GPS can't find can't find it. UPS can't

[2:09:03] find it and the ambulance can't find it.

[2:09:06] Um FedEx can't find it. UPS they can't

[2:09:10] nobody can find it. So what you have to

[2:09:11] do is give them um the Windsor zip code

[2:09:15] because if you get your mail delivered

[2:09:17] at home

[2:09:20] Yeah. But the but the house numbers

[2:09:23] don't make any sense. My my parents

[2:09:25] house is either 54 or 186 depending on

[2:09:29] what you're looking at because I think

[2:09:31] we figured out that when the name was

[2:09:35] changed for 911, the numbers weren't

[2:09:38] changed but the numbers don't make

[2:09:39] sense. Anyway, no one can find no one

[2:09:42] can apologize, right? So, I was asked if

[2:09:46] I would do something about it and I

[2:09:48] thought I'd bring it up to the board.

[2:09:50] Okay, good to know. Um, I know we don't

[2:09:53] have anything to do with 911 numbering,

[2:09:55] but we do we can have a say in the name

[2:09:58] of the road. It used to be called

[2:10:00] Schoolhouse Road. You could just put

[2:10:01] back to school. Well, but if you have

[2:10:04] another road that's schoolhouse road,

[2:10:06] like Patty said, schoolhouse road isn't

[2:10:10] um

[2:10:12] schoolhouse road. Yes, but it's got

[2:10:17] school. You have you have as road, you

[2:10:19] have grout road. Yeah, you have to

[2:10:20] schoolhouse road against schoolhouse

[2:10:22] road. Okay, it's not the same. All

[2:10:23] right, solves that question. But going up the hill is schoolhouse road

[2:10:28] and it used to be all the way but but

[2:10:31] now it's up the road is schoolhouse road

[2:10:33] and

[2:10:34] that leg is Jenna road. Um but it always

[2:10:37] was called school and Springfield's got

[2:10:39] that above the uh fire station. You when

[2:10:42] you head up the hill and you turn out

[2:10:44] it's it's like one and then and then

[2:10:47] when you turn right it turns to Wilson.

[2:10:49] But you don't see. Everybody says they

[2:10:51] live on Wilson, which is you got like

[2:10:53] this little section that to get there.

[2:10:55] No, you can never find it. There is a

[2:10:57] little sign that says Jennis Road. But

[2:10:59] if you're somewhere else and you're

[2:11:00] trying to find it, it doesn't show up

[2:11:02] correctly on GPS. But and the ambulance

[2:11:04] has even gone to the wrong house because

[2:11:06] of the numbering system being screwed

[2:11:08] up. But is there not a way to update the

[2:11:12] GPS? I mean, didn't Spring was chain a

[2:11:15] whole bunch of I mean, road names. We

[2:11:17] had the same problem. Carly road. I

[2:11:19] think that was another one that was a

[2:11:20] problem. It's just impossible. What do

[2:11:23] we do with that? I mean, I don't think

[2:11:24] it is.

[2:11:26] Google and GPS and all those mapping. I

[2:11:30] won't make a joke about any golfs, but

[2:11:32] um uh it seems like there probably is a

[2:11:36] process for registered road. I mean,

[2:11:39] we're not the only town that has changed

[2:11:40] names. Your solution might be the

[2:11:43] easiest. Our solution. I have no idea.

[2:11:45] According to the books on George there

[2:11:48] was but somehow or other people if you if

[2:11:53] you type in Jennis road 05030

[2:11:57] you won't get you have to type it in as

[2:11:59] 05089 because it's registered in Windsor

[2:12:02] because the mail comes through right

[2:12:05] just like you have to type in

[2:12:07] Springfield to get to it even though

[2:12:09] it's in field we have five

[2:12:13] yeah and some wins there are some people

[2:12:15] live in Weathersfield and Springfield.

[2:12:18] So, this is a federal government issue.

[2:12:20] I have a Windsor adder.

[2:12:23] You want to say you change the name of

[2:12:25] the back schoolhouse? Isn't it still

[2:12:27] going to have the same zip code? It will

[2:12:29] still come from Windsor. That's why I

[2:12:31] want I want to research it. Um, I'll

[2:12:33] give you guys an update at the next

[2:12:34] meeting. Thank you. You're welcome. I

[2:12:36] can say I brought it out.

[2:12:38] I fulfilled the promise. Thank you so

[2:12:41] much.

[2:12:42] agenda. Did you say you wanted to add to

[2:12:44] this, RA?

[2:12:46] Um, under future agenda items. That's

[2:12:48] where we are. Yes. Okay. Um,

[2:12:52] uh, questions have been raised lately

[2:12:54] about whatever became the wastewater

[2:12:56] feasibility study for Perkinsville. So,

[2:13:00] we haven't heard anything from that from

[2:13:02] a long, long time.

[2:13:04] Um, and in a conversation the other day,

[2:13:08] I don't even remember who I was talking

[2:13:11] with now. Uh, but we were talking about

[2:13:15] how things get communicated in this town

[2:13:17] and how hard it is to communicate stuff

[2:13:19] in this town. And the question arose,

[2:13:22] would it be possible to have I guess

[2:13:25] they're called sandwich boards?

[2:13:29] Yeah, I know. You know, we have one here

[2:13:31] about the dogs and the taxes in front of

[2:13:33] the town hall, but could would it be

[2:13:35] possible to have sandwich boards for

[2:13:38] important meetings or hearings or things

[2:13:41] like that? That could be for example at Downers at where Weathersfield Center

[2:13:48] Road comes into 131 where

[2:13:52] you know in the scutney at the dump of

[2:13:55] the sorry transfer station

[2:14:00] you know a couple of key places where

[2:14:03] people tend to go

[2:14:07] um just so there's more visibility and

[2:14:10] you know because not everybody reads

[2:14:11] front porch forum. Not everybody is on

[2:14:15] Facebook. Um we I think we just need to

[2:14:18] find as many ways to communicate and get

[2:14:20] the word out as possible. When I was at

[2:14:23] town manager day, actually that and

[2:14:26] direct mail were were deemed like the

[2:14:28] most effective at getting the word out.

[2:14:30] Yeah. Yeah. The question the question

[2:14:33] become on the sandwich boards becomes

[2:14:35] who's who's going to main table. Yeah.

[2:14:37] Right. Right.

[2:14:40] growing digital signs.

[2:14:46] The only one of those town right up that

[2:14:48] state right away was the general

[2:14:50] everything else state.

[2:14:52] you come to us. And the other question

[2:14:55] was whether in in at the Perkinsville

[2:14:58] post office there is a bulletin board

[2:15:01] where we post they're both public

[2:15:04] there's a public notice board and

[2:15:05] there's a town notice board but they're

[2:15:08] at the if you come in the front door and

[2:15:11] most people in fact park around the back

[2:15:13] side of the building never see they

[2:15:15] never see it are totally unaware that

[2:15:18] there's a sideboard. So I just and I

[2:15:21] don't have no idea what it's like over

[2:15:23] here in at the Escotty post office. What

[2:15:26] I just heard is lock the back door.

[2:15:29] Yeah, we we cannot post

[2:15:33] we can't post at the post offices. They

[2:15:36] do that.

[2:15:39] Yeah. The only reason we're allowed to

[2:15:41] in Burtonville is because that area is

[2:15:44] actually not controlled by the post

[2:15:46] office. So in in li of uh posting at the

[2:15:50] Scotty post office now we're posting at

[2:15:52] the library.

[2:15:54] Oh interesting at Martin Hall and then

[2:15:56] at the middle post office building.

[2:16:00] Yeah. Isn't it interesting that we pay

[2:16:02] for all of that and we can't use it? I

[2:16:05] mean if it's a government building it's

[2:16:06] taxpayers dollars. Yeah. Which makes

[2:16:09] that us. Yeah. I I do pay my taxes. We

[2:16:12] went back and forth. I think you were on

[2:16:15] the board actually. I think both Kelly

[2:16:17] and Mike were on the board at that time.

[2:16:18] Yeah. And I Yeah, I remember. Yeah.

[2:16:22] Legal. Well, I've had people gotten

[2:16:24] fired from the postal department for

[2:16:27] putting stuff up that they're not

[2:16:28] supposed

[2:16:33] to say. That's a good thing.

[2:16:36] So, I know a lot about So, we're not

[2:16:38] supposed to mention that politics might

[2:16:40] have worked its way into that. So, no.

[2:16:43] I'm sure it did.

[2:16:48] Yeah, a second. Um, also for future

[2:16:52] agenda items. Sorry, we have um some

[2:16:58] I put out something is why I said that.

[2:17:01] Job performance for Brandon. Oh, yes.

[2:17:04] There's some paperwork here. No, you

[2:17:07] don't get one.

[2:17:11] Yes. So, I didn't know. You guys might

[2:17:14] want to look at these. These are

[2:17:15] something that Brandon printed. Also,

[2:17:18] this is what we use for all kinds. Yes,

[2:17:20] we do it. Should I do a good job? Yes or

[2:17:23] no?

[2:17:27] When I was looking at it this weekend, I

[2:17:30] um

[2:17:32] I I want to know I got questions I want

[2:17:36] to have an answer. So, I don't know if

[2:17:38] anyone else has questions like um

[2:17:44] I want to know what are your goal or

[2:17:47] goals for the coming year and how do you

[2:17:49] plan to achieve them? Um

[2:17:52] what support or resources do you need to

[2:17:54] enhance your performance?

[2:17:57] I know that he's got a lot on his plate

[2:17:59] of stuff that

[2:18:02] is consuming his time and upstairs in

[2:18:05] the office that shouldn't be. So, I I

[2:18:08] just think that there's a lot of

[2:18:10] questions that maybe someone may have

[2:18:12] that they might want to ask him during

[2:18:14] this performance. I don't know if they

[2:18:16] want to ask him prior to the meeting so

[2:18:20] that he can have time to get answers.

[2:18:25] Do questions of what kind of support do

[2:18:28] you need actually fit into an evaluation

[2:18:31] of a person's

[2:18:33] probably not performance? That that's

[2:18:36] the the first question. What was the

[2:18:37] verdict and that one I didn't seem so

[2:18:39] bad. What is your goal or goals for for

[2:18:41] the coming year and how do you plan to

[2:18:43] achieve that? Well, it does have other

[2:18:45] goals in here.

[2:18:47] This factor will measure other areas

[2:18:50] that are applicable to the employee

[2:18:51] performance.

[2:18:52] The only thing I worry about, Kelly, is

[2:18:54] you give them too much open-ended. It's

[2:18:55] going to be 12 pages.

[2:19:00] Do we have Do we actually have a copy of

[2:19:03] your job description? Is there a job

[2:19:05] description? It's a It's a contract. I

[2:19:07] can get a copy of the contract. Yeah.

[2:19:10] Yeah. That should be that should

[2:19:11] be with this. I actually I do agree that

[2:19:14] I think it this is just this is just a

[2:19:17] check mark thingy. This is not even

[2:19:19] asking questions. Well, it is in the

[2:19:20] back, but I do I do agree asking what

[2:19:23] kind of supports to that you can be more

[2:19:25] successful in. I mean, it's something in

[2:19:27] my role like that is something I ask

[2:19:31] folks when we do evaluations.

[2:19:35] Kelly, so the way that Can I have that

[2:19:38] puppy? Yeah. So, this is the one that we

[2:19:40] use for all time employees and you

[2:19:42] actually

[2:19:44] you you check it and then you write

[2:19:46] underneath it as well. Oh, okay. So what

[2:19:49] we typically do is we we check one of

[2:19:52] these four boxes and then we write a a

[2:19:54] paragraph

[2:19:56] that correlates to their to their job.

[2:19:58] So

[2:20:02] one would not know that by leaving it

[2:20:05] provided the comment. I have two members

[2:20:07] asked for you to tell us what you need.

[2:20:10] So I'm comfortable you writing it down

[2:20:12] and giving it to us.

[2:20:16] How are you?

[2:20:21] manifesto.

[2:20:24] So, if you guys want to just look

[2:20:25] through this for our next meeting and

[2:20:28] then we can discuss it then if that's

[2:20:29] all right with you guys. You don't want

[2:20:31] us to do it and hand it in. I don't Can

[2:20:36] you Yeah, you can hand it in and and

[2:20:38] then uh you kind of go over it and then

[2:20:40] call a meeting for us to come together

[2:20:42] and uh figure out what we're going to do

[2:20:44] with it before you sit down with him and

[2:20:46] tell him what we said. Okay.

[2:20:49] With the red season. I'm I'm pretty

[2:20:52] blunt so he knows.

[2:20:56] This is just something that you uh that

[2:20:58] we signed that needs to go in your

[2:20:59] folder. Oh, did we advertise it? because

[2:21:02] I was we should do

[2:21:06] the mud.

[2:21:08] It just needs to go in your folder.

[2:21:15] So, is that what you guys want to do?

[2:21:16] Fill this out and hand it in? No. No,

[2:21:19] not yet. No, not tonight.

[2:21:23] I want to see the contract. I copy

[2:21:30] that. I have it.

[2:21:34] Okay. Appointments. There's no

[2:21:36] appointments.

[2:21:38] Any other business? Well, do we have did

[2:21:40] we have one thing?

[2:21:43] [Music]

[2:21:45] That was just underneath when your file

[2:21:48] goes. Oh. Oh.

[2:21:52] Got it.

[2:21:55] Any other business?

[2:21:57] Nobody on the board? No other business.

[2:22:00] approve the warrant.

[2:22:05] Thank you, R.

[2:22:07] I'll see you tomorrow.

[2:22:10] Make a motion to approve the warrant.

[2:22:12] General fund 15,000 uh payroll

[2:22:15] $15,431.92.

[2:22:18] Operating expenses $78,23452.

[2:22:20] [Music]

[2:22:23] Highway payroll $10,13.93.

[2:22:28] Operating expenses $4,138.74.

[2:22:32] Solid waste payroll $2,191.34.

[2:22:35] [Music]

[2:22:38] Operating expenses $4,7159.

[2:22:42] Library payroll $2,399.74.

[2:22:45] [Music]

[2:22:49] LB project $64.80.

[2:22:53] What is that? Um

[2:22:58] second that till after grand totals

[2:23:00] payroll $30,126.93

[2:23:04] operating expenses $86,5965

[2:23:06] [Music]

[2:23:11] discussion little scutney bridge project

[2:23:17] we couldn't fit the whole thing there so

[2:23:19] we had to

[2:23:21] what was this those missing bolts or

[2:23:23] something was for advertising

[2:23:27] or something.

[2:23:32] No, there's some truth to what I said.

[2:23:37] I'm sure it was taken care of.

[2:23:43] I have no questions on

[2:23:46] I just got I just got one quick

[2:23:48] question. What is the credential

[2:23:50] retirement? Who gets that?

[2:23:54] It's on page

[2:23:56] five of five of the payroll for the

[2:23:58] general fund.

[2:24:10] $215

[2:24:12] for two people

[2:24:15] or twice

[2:24:18] or the same person twice. Yeah, that's

[2:24:19] right. Oh, it is two different pay

[2:24:21] dates.

[2:24:25] I'm pretty sure I I know this. Do you

[2:24:27] mind if I still giving you the answer at

[2:24:30] the next meeting? Yeah. Okay. I'm just

[2:24:31] curious. I just don't remember seeing

[2:24:33] that before.

[2:24:36] That's all I had for questions.

[2:24:39] Any other questions?

[2:24:42] All those in favor? Any extensions?

[2:24:48] Carries.

[2:24:49] Motion to adjurnn. So move

[2:24:52] second second. Journ 8:56 p.m. in favor.

[2:25:03] [Music]

[2:25:14] Heat. Heat.

[2:25:19] [Music]

Weathersfield Select Board Meeting 06/09/25

Transcript