[1:39] He's ready.

[1:40] >> We're good. Okay. Good evening

[1:42] everybody.

[1:44] [snorts]

[1:47] I'd like to call the Wednesday, October

[1:49] 7th, 2026

[1:52] Wolfpro Select Board and Libby Trustees

[1:54] meeting into session here at the great

[1:57] hall. Um before we begin, I'd like to

[2:01] invite anybody who'd like to join us for

[2:02] pledge of allegiance to please do so

[2:08] to the flag of the United States of

[2:11] America and to the republic for which it

[2:14] stands. One nation under God,

[2:17] indivisible, liberty and justice for

[2:20] all.

[2:25] And it's flying right side.

[2:28] Thank you very much.

[2:31] Last time I'll do it, but uh introduce

[2:33] our new town manager,

[2:36] Jim Wheeler, to the uh to the meeting.

[2:39] Jim, do we have a need for nonpublic

[2:40] this evening?

[2:41] >> Yeah, we will have one item under 91A

[2:43] colon 3 Roman numeral 2 paragraph L

[2:47] under legal advice.

[2:49] >> Thank you, sir.

[2:51] Second item on our agenda is the

[2:53] consideration of minutes.

[2:56] Miss Murray.

[2:57] >> Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I would like to read

[2:59] a uh statement into the record that I

[3:02] was requested by the town manager

[3:05] secretary. It had to do with something

[3:09] omitted from the uh July 1st minutes. Um

[3:13] was missing a statement on page three

[3:15] before the motion and it was Miss Lane

[3:18] did state thatformational

[3:21] packets were available as confirmed in

[3:24] the video and that the statement was

[3:26] omitted from the minutes but we'd like

[3:29] it recorded.

[3:31] >> Board members, any objection to adding

[3:32] that into uh that adjustment to the

[3:34] minutes?

[3:35] >> No.

[3:37] I have no objection, so we'll okay with

[3:39] that. Any other items on it on the

[3:41] minutes?

[3:46] Okay.

[3:49] September 2nd minutes. [snorts]

[3:51] >> Yes, I have. Um I would like to table

[3:54] those minutes again while re reviewing

[3:57] them. Um, I realized when I corrected

[4:01] line 175,

[4:04] it said the board members read their

[4:06] statements and from those who spoke with

[4:09] them and gave a summary of their

[4:11] activities as trustees of the Living

[4:14] Museum. I believe those statements

[4:16] should be in the minutes. It was about

[4:19] the demolition of the um building and I

[4:22] think those statements are important to

[4:24] be in. So that's why I would like to

[4:26] table that. So I make a motion to table

[4:28] the September 2nd, 2026 minutes.

[4:32] >> Motion to table the September 2nd, 2026

[4:35] minutes. Second, please.

[4:36] >> Second.

[4:37] >> Motion and a second. Any conversation.

[4:41] » All those in favor to table I, please. I

[4:44] >> No objections. Minutes are tabled.

[4:48] Thank you, Linda.

[4:50] >> Next is, and I have some corrections

[4:52] that when we get back, I'll have to do

[4:53] that. September 16th minutes.

[4:57] >> Linda,

[4:58] >> yeah, I haven't I also had an issue with

[5:00] these. I was putting together my report

[5:04] for the chamber and I went to get the

[5:08] information on the Reggie rebate

[5:11] >> and there was no information. I didn't

[5:14] it didn't tell us what date, what the

[5:16] rate was. And so I would like to table

[5:19] this set of minutes also. I'd like to

[5:21] get that information. And I think it's

[5:23] important that that is in the minutes

[5:27] and I think we as a board need to make

[5:29] sure when we make a motion on something

[5:32] like that that we repeat.

[5:34] >> So that's why I'd like to table those.

[5:36] >> A mo do you have a motion for that,

[5:38] Linda?

[5:38] >> I'd like Yeah, I'll make a motion to re

[5:40] table the September 19th minutes.

[5:42] >> Motion to table the 19th September

[5:44] minutes. Second, please.

[5:45] >> Uh 19th or 16th?

[5:48] >> Well, it says 19th here, so I'll sorry.

[5:50] >> 16th. Second, please. second.

[5:52] >> Okay.

[5:54] Any conversation?

[5:57] All those in favor? I please. I

[5:59] >> Okay.

[6:00] >> And I took care of the July 1st.

[6:03] >> Um and there was something in the uh in

[6:05] the document from Donald Lane. Uh um at

[6:08] the public hearing, it was stated any

[6:10] informationational

[6:11] document is available. See the video

[6:14] that'll go along with the uh most recent

[6:16] minutes. So, we'll we'll move those

[6:17] along. It was Miss Murray. This was a

[6:22] We're gonna have you update that the

[6:23] next time we get to the minutes on that.

[6:26] Okay, I think that just about does it

[6:28] for minutes. That was an easy one.

[6:31] Um

[6:34] Okay, just give me a second. Okay, next

[6:37] item on our agenda is public input.

[6:39] Three minutes per resident, 15 total.

[6:41] Please, anybody want to come on up and

[6:43] have a few words?

[6:55] Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

[6:58] >> Okie dokie. Um, next one is public

[7:00] hearings. We don't have any public

[7:01] hearings. Temporary event permits. Um,

[7:04] uh, we have the Wilra Historical Society

[7:06] is going to host a fall car show on

[7:09] October 10th from 10:00 a.m. to 1 atm at

[7:12] Clark Park, permit 202653.

[7:16] uh our town planner did not uh have an

[7:20] opportunity to sign the uh temporary

[7:22] event permit, but based upon uh what he would weigh in on, I'm not so

[7:28] sure we are going to hold this thing up.

[7:30] He'll sign it as soon as we're done.

[7:31] Does somebody want to speak about the

[7:32] car show?

[7:34] There you go.

[7:36] >> Hi, good evening. Shannon, president of

[7:39] the Historical Society at the Park

[7:42] Museum and this is the second uh antique

[7:46] and vintage car show we have this year.

[7:49] There's a group of car owners and

[7:52] they're called the Saturday morning

[7:54] regulars and they never how many them

[7:58] are going to show up. So it's always a

[8:01] lot of different variety of the vehicles

[8:04] and um they also have their meeting

[8:06] there and just great group of people.

[8:09] They bring coffee, donuts. Um we

[8:14] vehicles

[8:16] on the actual museum complex, but it's

[8:19] free open to the public and have

[8:23] insurance. So again,

[8:27] come out nice.

[8:30] >> Let's hope so. Board members, before I

[8:32] open it up, any questions on this side?

[8:36] Any public input?

[8:40] Okay, last chance.

[8:43] And a motion, please.

[8:44] >> Uh move to approve the um Wolfboro

[8:49] Historical Society to host a fall car

[8:52] show on October 10th, 2026 from 10:00

[8:55] a.m. to 1 p.m. That's it. That's the

[8:58] time.

[8:58] >> Permit

[8:59] >> um at Clark

[9:01] uh Clark Park permit number 2026-53.

[9:06] » Second.

[9:06] >> I have a motion and a second by Mr.

[9:08] Senle. Any conversation?

[9:11] >> All those in favor, please. I I

[9:13] >> We're all good. Thanks, Libby. Next one

[9:15] is Wolfer Alliance Club to host a

[9:16] trick-or- treat

[9:18] >> at Kate Park.

[9:19] >> Trick-or- treat

[9:20] >> 31 October 2026 from 5:00 p.m. to 7

[9:22] p.m.2026-54.

[9:26] Anybody want to come up and speak to

[9:28] that

[9:32] quiet night in the past though, right?

[9:34] We've done this in the past.

[9:35] >> They have.

[9:37] >> I believe so.

[9:39] >> Open up the public hearing. Anybody want

[9:41] to comment on it?

[9:44] >> Thank you very much. Board members, can

[9:46] I get a motion, please?

[9:48] >> Um, I will move to approve the temporary

[9:50] event permit

[9:52] uh for the Wolfboro Lions Club to hold

[9:55] trick-or- treat at Kate Park, October

[9:57] 31st, 2026 from 5:00 p.m. to 700 p.m.

[10:02] Permit 2026-54.

[10:05] Okay.

[10:06] >> I also have permit 202655

[10:09] as well. That's for the historical

[10:11] society. So I have a motion. Can I get a

[10:12] second on that?

[10:14] >> Second.

[10:14] >> A motion and a second. All those in

[10:16] favor? I. Please. I.

[10:17] >> Thank you very much. Next item is the

[10:20] Historical Society of Wolf to host a

[10:22] trick-or- treat at Clark Park on 31

[10:24] October 2026 from 5 to 7 per permit

[10:27] 202655.

[10:30] Wondering if that's a duplicative.

[10:32] Anybody here to want to speak to that?

[10:35] Here comes Libby.

[10:36] >> Yeah.

[10:37] >> Hi, S.

[10:38] >> Okay. This is really

[10:41] Shannon uh president and [snorts] very

[10:44] representable for Historical Society at

[10:47] the Clark Museum. And this is our

[10:49] seventh uh annual trickor treat at the

[10:52] Clark Museum. You know, we started this

[10:55] back in 2020 um so there would be a safe

[10:58] place for kids to trickor treat outside

[11:01] and I think we've continued to provide a

[11:04] safe place. Um there's, you know, not a

[11:08] lot of traffic there and um it's just

[11:10] awesome. So, uh you can bring us candy,

[11:14] drop it off at my house. No, I'm

[11:17] kidding. [laughter]

[11:19] >> Just don't drop it off in my house. It

[11:21] won't make it to the party.

[11:23] So, it's during um town Halloween hours

[11:26] and um if you cancel Halloween, that

[11:31] would be sad, but we [laughter] we will

[11:34] we only do it if we have a town trick or

[11:36] treat and then when the candy runs out,

[11:38] we're all set. So,

[11:41] >> question.

[11:42] >> Brian,

[11:43] >> do you know about the um Lions Club

[11:46] trickor treat at the park? Can you

[11:48] explain that to us? So, um,

[11:52] the Lions Club and the Kingswood Youth

[11:55] Center had always been on the grass of

[11:58] the park and you know, we do ours behind

[12:00] the picket fence of the Clark Museum.

[12:02] >> Y

[12:03] >> and

[12:05] that's like a separate um

[12:07] >> kind of thing,

[12:08] >> a separate thing. I'm not really sure

[12:10] what they're doing, but we've sort of

[12:12] absorbed the Kingswood Youth Center.

[12:14] >> Okay. Um, so they'll be with us. So they

[12:17] won't be having a separate event permit.

[12:19] So

[12:19] >> perfect. You're you're a

[12:21] >> plethora of information.

[12:24] >> You all set?

[12:25] >> Yeah.

[12:26] >> Well, no.

[12:26] >> Yeah. I just want to make sure we note

[12:29] that we need to close the parking lot to

[12:32] vehicle traffic is one of their

[12:35] requests. And we do. Kids are walking

[12:37] all over the place.

[12:38] >> So that is need we need to make sure

[12:40] that happens. Okay.

[12:44] Board members,

[12:47] anybody in the public want comment?

[12:50] All set. Board members, can I get a

[12:52] motion, please?

[12:52] >> Move to approve um the Wolfboro

[12:55] Historical Society to host Trickor Treat

[12:57] at Clark Park on October 31st, 2026 from

[13:01] 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. Permit number

[13:04] 2026-55.

[13:06] >> Second motion, a second.

[13:09] >> Second.

[13:10] >> And that includes closing the park.

[13:12] closing the parking lot

[13:13] >> and to have the parking lot closed for

[13:15] safety for the children.

[13:16] >> Anybody object to the addition on the

[13:18] motion?

[13:19] >> We're good. Okay.

[13:22] Any conversation? All those in favor,

[13:24] please.

[13:25] >> We're good.

[13:26] >> Thank you.

[13:27] >> Can I approach?

[13:30] >> You were only going to get this candy if

[13:31] you

[13:32] >> candy. [laughter]

[13:33] Right here. No. No. No. Right here. No.

[13:35] Oh, look at this.

[13:36] >> Thank you.

[13:37] >> Oh, we're going to get in trouble for

[13:38] this.

[13:40] Okay. Thank you. Put that down in your

[13:42] pocket.

[13:42] >> We'll sit here munching.

[13:44] >> Thank you.

[13:46] >> If anybody doesn't want their candy, I I

[13:49] can uh very easily put it in my car. Uh

[13:52] we have in the past uh recent past been

[13:55] uh putting uh up behind us uh the bulk

[13:57] vote. Um we're not going to do that

[14:00] tonight. Uh we're uh I'm just going to

[14:03] read it into the record and we'll take a

[14:05] uh take a vote on it. So we have items

[14:08] A, B, C, and D on our bulk vote. The

[14:10] first item is the weekly manifest. Those

[14:12] are the bills we pay. September 18th,

[14:15] 2026, 345,949563.

[14:22] September 25th, 1.352

[14:26] 571, million.33. I believe that includes

[14:30] the school payment.

[14:31] >> Yes. and October 2nd B uh manifest

[14:35] $410,317.

[14:40] The second item on the bulk vote is the

[14:43] uh Thanks for coming guys. Leave some

[14:45] more candy if you wouldn't mind. Um is

[14:47] the approval of the MS1 summary of in

[14:49] inventory valuation and the MS1

[14:53] V5 lower beach pond. The third item and

[14:57] anybody want to talk about what that is?

[14:58] you want to give us a brief update so

[14:59] folks can understand the valuation of

[15:01] our town we have to submit to the state.

[15:04] It's important for us to do that because

[15:07] that helps with the establishment of uh

[15:09] tax rates and all of that kind of stuff.

[15:11] Third item on the uh bulk vote is the

[15:13] approval of the yield tax levy. There's

[15:15] a yield tax levy on 20 Workers Drive tax

[15:18] Map 161 lot 12 for $964.95

[15:22] 92.

[15:24] And the last is a uh intent to cut

[15:26] lumber old route 28 tax map 25 lot 2.

[15:31] That is the bulk vote. Can I get a

[15:33] motion, please?

[15:34] >> I'll make a motion to approve the bulk

[15:37] vote A through D.

[15:39] >> Motion. Do I have a second?

[15:40] >> Second.

[15:41] >> I have a motion and a second on the bulk

[15:42] vote.

[15:43] >> Can I if you want I can say one little

[15:45] thing. I want to tell people about the

[15:47] MS1 fund. It's um report required by RSA

[15:51] 21-J number 34. um and it's

[15:54] certification of valuations,

[15:56] appropriations, and estimated revenues

[15:59] and other information for the department

[16:00] of revenue in order to set our tax rate.

[16:03] Quick information, it is our land value,

[16:07] our building value. This is for the

[16:09] whole town of Wolfboro. Utilities and

[16:11] timber value. Exemptions are subtracted

[16:14] out. it's um optional exemptions

[16:18] factored out and then a total amount of

[16:21] exemptions and the total net value of

[16:23] our um of the the town. So we have a

[16:28] total net value without utilities and

[16:31] adjusted um at 4 bill818,717,535.

[16:40] That's the value of the town of

[16:42] Wolfboro.

[16:44] Anything

[16:45] else, Brian?

[16:46] >> That's all.

[16:47] >> Thank you for that. Um, did some You

[16:49] moved, Linda, and there was a second.

[16:51] >> So, we have a motion and a second.

[16:52] That's That was your discussion. Anybody

[16:54] else?

[16:56] >> All those in favor of approving the bulk

[16:58] vote, I please. I

[16:59] >> I

[16:59] >> All right, we're good. Next item on the

[17:02] agenda is uh board and committee

[17:03] appointments. We have none this evening.

[17:06] New business. [clears throat] First item

[17:09] of new business is a discussion. Mr.

[17:11] Brown uh requested a uh a 30-minute

[17:14] meeting with the board to re uh review

[17:17] his report that is in our board packets.

[17:19] Mr. Brown, welcome back.

[17:30] » Good evening. I'm going to go ahead and

[17:32] sign in.

[17:32] >> Yeah, sign in, please.

[17:34] >> Yeah, I don't know if the microphone

[17:36] Timothy, can you hear Derek upstairs?

[17:38] >> Uh I Oh, yeah.

[17:39] >> Oh, he's good. Never mind. Never mind.

[17:40] We're good.

[17:42] >> Talk to it. Thanks, Derek.

[17:44] >> Sure.

[17:46] Okay. Um, good evening. Uh, thank you

[17:49] for hearing us this evening and, uh,

[17:51] welcome, Mr. Wheeler.

[17:52] >> Thank you.

[17:53] >> Um, I'm just going to read a few pages

[17:56] here. We're going to have, uh, kind of

[17:58] an inclusive from all the members that

[18:00] assisted in this tonight. Uh,

[18:07] » want me to make the noise?

[18:10] There you go. There you go.

[18:11] >> There we go.

[18:12] You're going to have to get

[18:13] it down when you're

[18:19] » ahead.

[18:19] >> Okay.

[18:20] >> Much better. Thank you.

[18:21] >> Okay. So, to get started, uh yes, we

[18:25] produced a report um that was handed in

[18:28] earlier last week. Um but nearly all of

[18:32] it, the entire report didn't make it

[18:34] into Mr. Randall's presentation. So, we

[18:37] appreciate being able to discuss that

[18:40] tonight. So, tonight we offer detailed

[18:42] information as to how we arrived at I'm

[18:45] going to say our conclusions

[18:47] so far.

[18:50] We offer to share the methods and the

[18:52] approaches with anybody that has

[18:53] questions. We welcome it.

[18:57] You'll hear from obviously myself.

[18:58] You'll hear from Sebastian Toronado.

[19:00] You'll hear from Jeff Owings. And you'll

[19:01] hear from Suzanne Ryan.

[19:04] So, I'm going to start off by saying how

[19:06] we got here for those that are kind of

[19:08] newer to this journey. Uh, November of

[19:10] last year,

[19:12] I reported found and reported a foul

[19:15] smelling fluid coming from a drain pipe

[19:18] at the town docks.

[19:21] Tests were done.

[19:23] It revealed fecal collar form in excess

[19:26] of 2400 which is I know there's a

[19:29] variety of tests that can be done to

[19:31] measure that but for the test that was

[19:33] done by europens that was as high as the

[19:34] value could read and a ecoli test was

[19:39] also done and that was 260

[19:42] at that same location that was done and

[19:46] the results were in on November 12th but

[19:48] it was not revealed to the public until

[19:51] January 15th.

[19:54] It seemed to mysteriously make its way

[19:56] out of minutes and meetings subsequent

[19:58] between November and January.

[20:01] Too many stories to mention as to the

[20:03] source of these challenges.

[20:06] It is our understanding the pipe is no

[20:08] longer in service. So moving forward,

[20:13] this brings us to what we call the pool

[20:15] at the town docks. [snorts]

[20:19] You can form your own definition of what

[20:21] we mean by a pool.

[20:23] A growing number of citizens have

[20:25] started asking us had started asking us

[20:28] why this pool exists in the parking lot

[20:30] at the town docks at this time every

[20:33] year.

[20:34] So a small group of us got together.

[20:38] we educated ourselves, asked a

[20:40] lot of questions of a lot of people and

[20:42] a lot of professionals and industry

[20:45] consultants.

[20:48] We collected data, trends and

[20:50] conditions. We reached out to Euroins to

[20:53] guide us on proper techniques and

[20:55] methods for actually testing if we were

[20:57] going to take this on ourselves with our

[20:59] own dime and time.

[21:03] They were I I have to point out

[21:05] incredibly helpful in guiding us. There

[21:08] were several visual visual conditions as

[21:11] I call them that raised our concern. We

[21:14] did our first test as this group of four

[21:17] I mentioned on June 17th.

[21:20] And as reference to the previous

[21:22] comments about the pipe test results

[21:24] taking two months, we had our results in

[21:27] two days.

[21:30] These results were also at the storm

[21:34] drain in the center of the parking lot

[21:35] where this pool was or at that time was.

[21:39] They were also greater than 2400 for

[21:41] feififor

[21:44] and ecoli

[21:47] 260.

[21:50] It's important to point this out that

[21:52] this storm drain is in the middle of the

[21:54] parking lot which is about 80 ft from

[21:56] the capped pipe from the previous

[21:59] November.

[22:02] We brought these results to the

[22:03] selectman meeting of July 1st. Select

[22:05] board submitted them unanimously to put

[22:08] them in the record. At that time, one of

[22:11] the members whose personal information

[22:12] was in the uh chain of custody, we were

[22:15] a little concerned about who was going

[22:16] to take that personal information it was

[22:19] once it was a public document. So, we

[22:20] asked to redact that personal

[22:21] information, but needless to say, the

[22:24] test was submitted.

[22:26] We raised immediate concerns for public

[22:28] safety because this was a pool of water

[22:31] draining into the lake. We have video

[22:32] evidence of it, and we have videos of

[22:35] kids and adults walking through it

[22:37] barefoot, washing their face in the boat

[22:39] ramp water where that water is pouring

[22:41] into the lake.

[22:45] It's not speculated. It is on video.

[22:48] We raised these immediate concerns for

[22:50] public safety as this water is draining

[22:52] directly into the lake of the public

[22:53] boat ramp. Now, approximately a week

[22:56] later, we were approached by the DPW

[22:58] director as a suggestion we should work

[23:01] together,

[23:04] compare notes, methods, and truly find

[23:07] out what's happening at the town docks

[23:09] parking lot.

[23:11] Now, I will say all of us were

[23:14] encouraged. Maybe we've turned a corner

[23:16] here.

[23:18] So the four of us got together at Pop

[23:21] Whan had a meeting with Steve Randall

[23:24] and troubleshoot the challenges and

[23:26] create a plan for correction.

[23:30] We were asked for our data and we

[23:31] provided it. We gave suggestions on a

[23:35] path because

[23:37] we don't have other projects in town. We

[23:40] had a lot of time to be laser focused on

[23:42] this particular issue. So, we spent a

[23:44] lot of time on this, probably more than

[23:46] a lot of us want to admit.

[23:48] Um, so we created a a series of ideas

[23:53] that we felt would give us strong

[23:56] conclusions.

[23:58] As July and August evolved, it became

[24:01] evident we were only spectators.

[24:04] We were not involved.

[24:07] All of our ideas

[24:10] were politely accepted but not

[24:13] implemented.

[24:16] Now, here we are. We're in agreement on

[24:19] one thing.

[24:21] We want to, as we say, uncouple the

[24:25] connection between potential cracks in a

[24:27] sewer main and groundwater

[24:29] contamination. We don't want to see that

[24:31] either. We all own property here.

[24:37] We can't uncouple these things.

[24:40] All indications from all of our data,

[24:42] and you're going to hear more of it

[24:43] tonight, they are connected. To this

[24:47] point, we cannot prove they are not.

[24:52] Why do we know this?

[24:55] What we know is we don't know where it's

[24:57] coming from, nor what it is. But either

[25:01] way, it's making its way into the lake

[25:03] through the stream the storm drains.

[25:08] The one location of six sites tested by

[25:10] the DPW that that Jeff Owings was asked

[25:13] to follow along and watch. The one site

[25:17] that had the high hit for E.coli only

[25:20] was the very same stone drain that we

[25:22] had the high hit on. No others

[25:27] in that same location.

[25:31] The value was 6 160 for EC coli which is

[25:34] higher than we'd want it to be.

[25:37] I would say it was somewhere around 2

[25:40] weeks into July. Kerry Beach I I'm going

[25:45] to go from memory so forgive me was

[25:47] around 140 or something. So the beach

[25:50] was closed for the week

[25:53] but we're doing nothing at the town

[25:54] docks.

[25:58] So

[26:00] this high reading was in the same spot

[26:02] as I mentioned fe what to me beyond me

[26:08] to our group the next major fatal flaw.

[26:12] Fecal caulifform testing was not

[26:15] performed. They are two separate tests.

[26:17] One is for for ecoli and one is for

[26:20] fecal cifform. They need to incubate at

[26:22] different temperatures and are handled

[26:24] completely independent of one another.

[26:26] they cannot be tested from the same

[26:27] sample.

[26:30] This was critical to the whole process.

[26:33] Now I'm going to go on to say the ecoli

[26:36] reading at the same storm drain.

[26:40] Where did the test come up short? Now

[26:42] I'm going to instead of read this, I'm

[26:44] going to kind of give you a description

[26:47] and and again you'll be able to ask

[26:48] questions. Is

[26:51] DNA certainly important? And I know that

[26:53] was at the front of everybody's mind

[26:55] that we needed to do DNA testing. Well,

[26:58] number one, it's expense.

[27:01] And it's expense that we may not find

[27:03] necessary if we don't find any ecoli to

[27:06] begin with or fecal properties or fecal

[27:09] caulifform that warrant getting a DNA

[27:11] test done.

[27:14] So

[27:16] there was more focus on let's get a DNA

[27:19] test done on something we don't even

[27:21] know if there's feal colifform in it.

[27:25] That was a waste of energy and money.

[27:29] Now these res these results would turn

[27:32] into the defining of DNA test that would

[27:35] be warranted

[27:37] for spending monies on tests that may be

[27:40] inconclusive

[27:42] may put us right back to square one. We

[27:44] don't know anything and that's where we

[27:46] ended up further from day one and I say

[27:50] day one meaning mid July we stress the

[27:53] importance of colored dye testing that

[27:56] should have been done first. That is

[27:58] exactly what we asked for first because

[28:01] we sat here 10 months ago saying we

[28:03] don't know where these drains go.

[28:06] I think we can all at least agree on

[28:08] that one point

[28:10] and if not you can review the video

[28:12] recorded meetings. We agree we don't

[28:14] know where it goes. So instead of doing

[28:17] the die testing first they put it to the

[28:21] end of August after DNA and E.coli tests

[28:24] were done.

[28:26] And by the way, the DNA, the dye

[28:29] testing, they used green and blue. What

[28:33] are the colors of our water?

[28:36] There's lots of colors that could have

[28:38] been used to make it more visible. But

[28:41] something else happened.

[28:43] The dyes really, as far as we can tell,

[28:46] never even made it through the lake

[28:48] because by the time they put the water

[28:50] pressure in the storm drains to push the

[28:53] dyes through, all kinds of crud came out

[28:55] of the storm drains.

[28:58] And that can be attested to this

[29:00] evening. So again, if we were more

[29:04] involved in the process,

[29:09] that would have been the time to do an

[29:10] E.coli coli and caulifform fecal

[29:12] caulifform test right now what's coming

[29:15] out of that storm drain and all that

[29:16] sediment but it was not done nothing to

[29:19] see here what's most important was an

[29:21] ecoli number

[29:24] well

[29:27] what did happen is the die testing

[29:29] didn't work

[29:32] drains that are full of sediment and we

[29:34] don't really know what's in them so this

[29:36] is just an opinion but the one reason we

[29:38] wanted the die testing was simply to see

[29:40] where this goes and create a schematic

[29:42] that we could work from.

[29:48] The EC coli and fecal fecal caulifform

[29:51] test at these locations should have

[29:54] happened together simultaneously. They

[29:56] did not. So we have an ecoli number

[30:00] without a real read on the fecal

[30:02] components of this

[30:04] which is really what we were all

[30:07] debating for months.

[30:09] and that should have been done.

[30:12] So in anticipation of the work session

[30:14] with the DPW last week, we got all the

[30:16] information in our reporting form and

[30:18] you know specifically I got to publicly

[30:20] thank Jeff Owings. He put so much time

[30:22] into this report and his background was

[30:24] this is one of his strengths. We are

[30:27] expecting our research and data and

[30:29] statistical information to be in this

[30:31] report. It was not.

[30:33] Lastly,

[30:35] the report was provided as as the day

[30:38] the report was provided to Mr. Wheeler

[30:41] to Mr. Randall,

[30:44] an elected official reached out and said

[30:49] we needed to add some data to our

[30:51] report.

[30:54] [snorts] We said no,

[30:58] the report is ours, our data. We're not

[31:03] adding theories, speculation or

[31:08] attabo for other people that are trying

[31:10] to get attab boys out of this. This is

[31:12] the data presented factual.

[31:16] Now the conclusions

[31:20] we cannot unfortunately from our point

[31:22] of view uncouple the fecal matter

[31:25] component of this regardless of the type

[31:28] groundwater concentr contamination and

[31:32] storm drains are emptying into the lake.

[31:34] We do not have a conclusion of where

[31:37] this where this is coming from or what's

[31:40] in it. And in order to agree with the

[31:42] statements in this report, we would have

[31:45] to do so.

[31:47] We're not there yet.

[31:49] Now, I'd like to ask Sebastian um to

[31:53] give us a couple of minutes if you could

[31:54] of what he has.

[31:56] >> Can I Derek, thank you for that. Um

[31:59] board members, do you want to wait till

[32:01] everybody's done or do you want to ask

[32:02] Derek any specific questions now?

[32:04] >> Okay, sure.

[32:06] >> I guess you might want to wait. Wait

[32:07] till everybody's

[32:08] >> I'd like to hear the whole thing. Great.

[32:11] I think that's a good idea.

[32:12] >> And then I'd like to make a statement. I

[32:14] don't want to ask questions.

[32:15] >> That's okay. We'll wait till everybody's

[32:16] done. Thank you.

[32:18] >> Sebastian, you're next.

[32:19] >> Thank you, sir.

[32:29] [clears throat]

[32:37] » Good evening. Uh Sebastian Toronado.

[32:41] Uh just like to say I want to take this

[32:45] opportunity to thank the select board

[32:47] and Steve Randall for the opportunity uh

[32:50] to try to work together. I think it uh

[32:52] the collaboration

[32:54] uh worked somewhat. It could have been

[32:57] better. Uh but I'm enthusiastic to try

[33:00] to get back on it and try to get more

[33:03] better data here. Uh

[33:08] what I'm going to speak about is the

[33:10] testing that was done and how it might

[33:13] have been done a little bit better. Uh

[33:16] in order to do that I have to give you a

[33:17] little background. Um I've come before

[33:20] you a couple times before and have put

[33:23] forth a theory and that theory is that

[33:27] there is a leak in the sewer system

[33:29] contaminates the groundwater. where we

[33:31] have heavy rains, the groundwater comes

[33:33] up, gets into the sump of the building,

[33:35] the bu uh the sump comes on, puts the

[33:39] sump water into the drain system, and

[33:41] that's where we're seeing the problem. I

[33:44] would like nothing more than to disprove

[33:47] that theory. I really would. I don't

[33:49] want the sewer system to be part of the

[33:52] drain system essentially when when we

[33:54] have a high water. But nonetheless, in

[33:58] order to do that, we need information.

[33:59] We need data to be able to prove that

[34:02] that's not happening or to prove that it

[34:04] is happening. And I understand we did uh

[34:09] Stantech was hired to send some of the

[34:12] samples for uh DNA testing and that uh

[34:16] came back nothing. No

[34:19] bird, no dog, no human DNA.

[34:24] And I'd like to add too that I've done a

[34:27] little research and the the types of DNA

[34:29] that they can test for right now are

[34:31] those three plus livestock which is

[34:35] cattle

[34:37] uh pigs that kind of thing. So, since

[34:40] they didn't hit

[34:42] those three, the aven, the human, or the

[34:46] pet, which by the way, the pet also

[34:48] includes horses,

[34:50] uh, I don't recall seeing a lot of cows

[34:52] in town, so I doubt that that was the

[34:54] problem. So, that made me wonder, you

[34:56] know, what's with the test? How could

[34:58] you have zero? How can it be zero? How

[35:00] can you have no DNA whatsoever? You

[35:03] know, unless the Martians landed the

[35:04] night before, I I don't know. Uh so I

[35:08] started looking into that and I find

[35:10] that when you go to do a DNA test,

[35:14] you have to execute the test some 8 to

[35:17] 12 hours after you take the sample. If

[35:20] you don't do that and you just keep it

[35:21] in water, believe it or not, water is an

[35:24] enemy of DNA. It uh hydrayes the de uh

[35:28] the DNA, breaks it apart, and you get

[35:31] nothing. It gets degraded and you end up

[35:34] getting no DNA.

[35:37] The only uh [sighs]

[35:39] the only way you can is if you filter

[35:41] the sample first. You can save the

[35:44] filtered sample in a freezer and then

[35:48] you can do that up to 6 months later.

[35:51] But there was no information indicated that that

[35:56] happened. What I what my understanding

[35:58] from the report and from questions I

[36:01] asked was the sample was set down. They

[36:04] were told to hold it until they did the

[36:07] E. coli test and once the E.coli test

[36:10] was done they selected which sample they

[36:12] wanted to do the DNA test. That took two

[36:15] days. By the end of two days the DNA was

[36:18] probably degraded. That's why you got

[36:20] zero hit on it. Number two I'd like to

[36:24] kind of say uh give you a little bit of

[36:26] information on what

[36:29] uh fecal caulifform total collifform and

[36:32] ecoli is. You probably have had a

[36:34] somewhat a lesson in that. But for those

[36:36] who are uneducated,

[36:38] the universe

[36:40] of caulifform bacteria is this. Fecal

[36:45] caulifform is a subset of total

[36:47] caulifforms and ecoli is a subset of

[36:51] fecal caulifforms. So if you have EC

[36:53] coli what that indicates is you have a

[36:55] fecal contamination but you don't know

[36:58] exactly what level you have it at how

[37:00] much uh you can sort of try to derive it

[37:04] from the ecoli but it's not really a one

[37:06] to one relationship.

[37:08] So

[37:09] the reason why fecal caulifform is

[37:12] important, it kind of gives you a load

[37:14] number. It gives you like how

[37:16] contaminated, what is the frequency of

[37:18] contamination, how big of a load went

[37:21] in. And what I can tell you is that some

[37:24] the research that I've done and looked

[37:26] up when you get to a number of 2400 that

[37:30] pegs the test.

[37:32] And

[37:34] what that indicates according to some

[37:37] people and the research that uh I've

[37:40] seen is that that is the microbial

[37:43] equivalent of raw sewage or uh a heavy

[37:48] agricultural runoff. And before anyone

[37:52] loses their mind, I said it's the

[37:54] equivalent. Didn't call it raw sewage.

[37:57] It is the equivalent of raw sewage.

[38:00] Um, so I also did some checking on what

[38:04] one does when you have that sort of

[38:07] situation.

[38:09] And in order to try to clean it up, they

[38:12] basically tell you you should be wearing

[38:14] a hazmat suit. So it's not something

[38:16] that is h well not a big deal. They tell

[38:19] you to wear rubber gloves, rubber boots,

[38:21] an N95 mask, and goggles. And so it they

[38:25] consider a load of 2400

[38:30] as as very high. In fact, if they give

[38:33] you sometime in c certain papers I've

[38:35] read, they give you limits like for

[38:38] instance swimming up to 200 you can

[38:41] swim. 400 you really shouldn't have

[38:45] contact with the water. After up to a

[38:48] thousand after a th00and you shouldn't

[38:50] even be boating in the water. So a load

[38:53] of 2400 they consider I believe the

[38:57] words I read were biological hazard.

[39:00] So it's not something that can be

[39:05] uh overlooked easily. It's something

[39:07] that really needs to be dealt with. Um

[39:12] that's kind of what I need to say. Oh,

[39:14] and also I did some research on

[39:19] for instance, you know, parking lot at

[39:20] design, the situation we have here. And

[39:24] the three most probable

[39:27] causes for the situation that I

[39:30] described were,

[39:32] let me read this because I want to quote

[39:35] this exactly. So, I have to put on my

[39:37] glasses. My my vanity is is hurting

[39:40] right now. Uh

[39:43] so they call it well the number one

[39:45] reason is a groundwater contamination.

[39:47] If an adjacent building septic tank or

[39:49] an underground municipal sewer main is

[39:52] cracked, raw sewage is leaking into the

[39:54] ground surrounding soil. The sump pump

[39:57] is then drawing in this highly

[39:58] contaminated groundwater and discharging

[40:01] it directly into the parking lot basin.

[40:04] That's the number one. The second one is

[40:06] an illegal cross connection. A nearby

[40:09] building may have elicitly plumbed con

[40:11] uh plump connection where a toilet, a

[40:14] sink or washing machine has been

[40:16] accidentally plumbed into the storm

[40:18] drain system instead of the sanitary

[40:20] sewer. That was uh actually my first

[40:23] theory, but according to Mr. Cynical

[40:26] that did not happen. And the third one

[40:29] is a dumpster or trash compactor runoff

[40:32] which doesn't exist. So I I discount

[40:34] that. So, we're left with the original

[40:37] theory that I came up with. And again, I

[40:40] wish it was uh wrong and I want it to be

[40:44] wrong, but at this point, I can't

[40:47] disprove it. Um, so

[40:51] to uh have some uh recommendations in

[40:56] terms of this uh I had understood that

[40:59] there was going to be continuing

[41:00] testing, you know, like on a monthly

[41:02] basis. I would like to suggest that you

[41:05] don't bother. Uh that's not going to get

[41:08] you anywhere. Uh the time to test is

[41:12] next spring when the water comes up, the

[41:14] lake is high, groundwater is high, and

[41:17] the sump pumps are running. And then

[41:19] what we need to do is go into the sump

[41:21] pump, take a sample right at the sump

[41:24] pump as it comes out. If that's reading

[41:28] high uh fecal caulifforms

[41:32] uh or ecoli, we found our our culprit.

[41:35] If it's not, then it's probably

[41:37] groundwater uh runoff. So, um that's

[41:41] what I would suggest we do in the

[41:42] future. And one other recommendation I

[41:45] have is that

[41:48] so the basin we have now which is uh the

[41:51] one in the parking lot we recently

[41:53] tested it got a high E.coli number. The

[41:57] thing about fealifform bacteria and

[42:00] E.coli bacteria is rather resilient if

[42:03] it has a food source. So since that

[42:08] basin if you will or the inside of that

[42:10] pipe is probably well quot well coated

[42:15] with muck. Okay. And I I I'll call it

[42:18] muk. How's that? Uh and the cifform

[42:23] bacteria and the e coli can actually

[42:25] survive, can actually thrive, can

[42:28] actually multiply.

[42:31] And in certain cases, depending on how

[42:33] much food source there is or how much

[42:36] nutrients there are, it can actually

[42:39] winter over.

[42:41] So that right now is contaminated and

[42:45] you can go test it any way you want.

[42:47] You're going to come up with high eoli,

[42:50] high califform bacteria. My suggestion

[42:54] is you go in there and you clean that

[42:56] drain out. Get a vacuum.

[42:58] Suck everything out of there. Make sure

[43:00] it's clean. Test it. Make sure there's

[43:02] no nothing there. Next spring when the

[43:05] water comes up and the sump pumps

[43:08] operate, then go test it again and see

[43:12] what you're getting. If it's if you're

[43:14] getting high ecoli, high califform

[43:18] bacteria,

[43:19] then I think we have our culprit. And if

[43:23] it does turn out to be the culprit, you

[43:26] know, there's things you can do

[43:28] that are not requiring you to tear up

[43:30] the street and replace the pipe. There's

[43:34] something called lining. If the if the

[43:36] thing is cracked because you have a lot

[43:38] of eye in there and uh and it's leaking,

[43:42] you can reline part of the system to

[43:45] avoid this situation.

[43:48] And I find it curious.

[43:51] Again, this is just my my engineer in

[43:53] me. Guys did a lot of tests. You guys

[43:57] did a lot of, you know, other drains,

[44:00] other places. Struck out every time. Why

[44:04] is it that it's always behind the Avery

[44:06] building that you have this problem?

[44:10] >> You got to ask that question.

[44:13] >> So, that's about all I have. You know,

[44:16] happy to take questions when

[44:18] >> Well, when you do it at the end ready

[44:20] for it. Thank you, Sebastian. Appreciate

[44:22] it. Mr. Owings,

[44:26] » I'm Jeff Owings, 500 S Road, and I was

[44:30] in charge.

[44:31] >> There you go.

[44:38] » I was in charge of most of the

[44:39] methodology for this report

[44:42] and I want to tell you about some of the

[44:44] methodology that we used to come to the

[44:46] conclusions that we did.

[44:49] I worked in statistical agency for 30

[44:51] years and the most important thing I

[44:54] always looked at in a report was the

[44:56] methodology. How did they do the test?

[44:59] How did they come up with the

[45:01] conclusions? Does it agree with the

[45:03] research?

[45:04] So one of the most important components

[45:06] of the research present presented here

[45:09] is the methodology that was used to

[45:11] collect the data and how the data were

[45:14] analyzed

[45:16] without well documented. I have every

[45:18] report that's been done, everything that

[45:21] I could find research from internet.

[45:26] Without wellocumented methodology, it is

[45:29] very difficult to replicate the research

[45:31] findings.

[45:33] In our report, we documented the

[45:36] procedures used to select the data which

[45:40] included date, time,

[45:43] um data sampling tools used. We went

[45:46] down to the exact tools we used, how we

[45:48] poured it off and delivery time to the

[45:52] Euroins data testing group.

[45:55] We tried to make sure we documented our

[45:59] methodology so it could be replicated.

[46:03] We did not rely on expert opinion or

[46:06] educated guesses.

[46:08] For example, we documented how we

[46:10] collected the data samples. This is

[46:13] important because our sample was the key

[46:16] link that allowed comparisons to samples

[46:20] that the town had already done and what

[46:24] they're going to do in the future.

[46:28] Our sample tested both EC coli and fecal

[46:31] matter. Fecal matter was up to 2400.

[46:35] Ecoli was I think 273.

[46:39] Without this link, it would not have

[46:41] been possible to compare E.coli and

[46:44] fiscal and fecal matter results over

[46:46] time.

[46:49] In taking samples for the Wolfboro dock

[46:51] parking lot, it is important to use

[46:53] information such as recent rainfall,

[46:57] depth of the lake, and water flow in

[47:00] underground pipes. What I observed when

[47:03] we were doing the die testing is

[47:07] water wasn't going out because the water

[47:09] in the lake was above the pipe.

[47:12] So there was a negative push. So water

[47:15] wasn't going out. And in the spring

[47:17] that's even worse. So we don't know

[47:22] is the water backing up into under the

[47:24] gravel of the pavement and going all the

[47:27] way to the street or what's it doing? We

[47:30] got to figure that out and we got to

[47:33] find a way to get the water not to set

[47:36] in the pipes under the catch basins

[47:40] because what's happening is the bacteria

[47:44] are incubating.

[47:45] >> That's what he's saying.

[47:47] So

[47:48] they,

[47:50] you know, they reproduce.

[47:52] Sunshine will kill them. But if they

[47:55] have a dark environment, these bacteria

[47:57] will reproduce. Then when there's a

[47:59] pool, when the lake pushes the water

[48:01] back up, it goes into these pools and

[48:04] you will have ecoli infested pools that

[48:07] people can walk in that cars can go

[48:10] through.

[48:12] So [snorts]

[48:13] we also say we need sufficient time for

[48:15] the incubation. We want to we don't want

[48:18] to test right after a rain. We want to

[48:21] give it two or three days for the

[48:23] incubation to happen. So there's enough

[48:25] to measure.

[48:28] And as Sebastian said earlier, a monthly

[48:32] sample

[48:33] won't I don't think will make it because

[48:37] right now for the next four or five

[48:39] months, the water level in a lake is

[48:42] probably going to be at the pipe level,

[48:44] the exit pipe level or below it. So

[48:47] we're not going to get any backflow.

[48:50] So what you're testing, you know, water

[48:52] is running out in these months. It's in

[48:55] the spring when the water can't get out

[48:58] that we're having the problems.

[49:01] So that's what we're suggesting that the

[49:04] real tests are going to happen in the

[49:05] spring for both E.coli and um you know

[49:10] feal matter and it might be from birds.

[49:12] It might be from we don't know what it's

[49:13] from. The concern of this report was not

[49:16] that it was human. We weren't concerned

[49:18] with human. It was there's ecoli there.

[49:22] We don't know what type it is. We need

[49:24] to do something. Thank you,

[49:27] >> Mr. Owings. Thank you.

[49:39] » I think we're Well, first of all, thank

[49:41] you for staying in the time.

[49:44] Um, if the board has uh the board like

[49:47] to extend this for a little more

[49:49] conversation, I'll entertain that. You

[49:51] want to do that?

[49:51] >> I'd like to make a quick statement.

[49:54] You want to go first or do we want the

[49:56] town manager? You What do you want to

[49:57] do? Board members, you want to make a

[49:58] statement?

[49:58] >> He can go first.

[49:59] >> Let the town manager do it. [laughter]

[50:02] >> Let's let the new guy talk.

[50:03] >> Okay.

[50:04] >> All right. [clears throat]

[50:07] One thing that I think everybody can

[50:10] agree on is there's a drainage issue

[50:14] down by the buildings on Main Street at

[50:18] the town docks, right?

[50:20] It's a product of an urban environment

[50:23] being built right up against the lake.

[50:26] Um, frankly, it's not surprising to me

[50:29] that you would find ecoli in a catch

[50:33] basin in a parking lot

[50:36] behind businesses that you know are

[50:40] thriving businesses, restaurants,

[50:42] people, kids. um

[50:47] for us to expect that you wouldn't find

[50:49] it would be somewhat silly.

[50:53] Having said that,

[50:57] I've spent a good part of my career

[50:59] operating a sanitary sore system. Um 60

[51:04] miles of

[51:06] gravity sor lines, pumping stations,

[51:09] treatment plant. Um,

[51:13] and I've had these issues come up before

[51:17] and I hope I don't regret saying this.

[51:20] And I'm also going to say never say

[51:22] never. I don't know if this is true, but

[51:25] I do think it's highly unlikely that the

[51:28] sororine in the street is contributing

[51:31] to E.coli behind the buildings. And the

[51:35] reason I say that is this. So it's a

[51:37] gravity sore mane that's in the street.

[51:40] By definition, what that means is that

[51:44] sore mane is not under pressure. It does

[51:48] not flow full.

[51:50] Most of the time the cross-sectional

[51:54] area of that pipe is empty.

[51:58] So when the groundwater is elevated,

[52:02] water is going into the pipe. It's not

[52:05] coming out of the pipe. Okay. Um that's

[52:09] just the the plain physics of it. If we

[52:12] had so much inundation

[52:15] in that sewer line such that it was

[52:19] full,

[52:21] nobody on Main Street could flush a

[52:23] toilet. And guess what? The phone would

[52:25] ring.

[52:27] I don't I haven't heard that that's

[52:28] happening anywhere. So, um, based on my

[52:32] experience, that's what I think.

[52:35] Could it could I be wrong? I could be

[52:37] wrong. I absolutely could be wrong. Um,

[52:40] should we test more? Absolutely, we

[52:42] should test more. Should we become all

[52:45] become convinced that it's not uh the

[52:48] sanitary system that's causing uh, you

[52:51] know, the ecoli counts? Absolutely. So,

[52:55] um, I guess that's that's what I would

[52:57] have to say.

[53:01] So, the only thing I would add is um it concerned me a little that the tests

[53:09] that our representative, Representative

[53:12] Budman,

[53:14] had done by dees

[53:17] out in our dock at two areas, straddling

[53:22] one of the pipes. That is the concern.

[53:24] and over at the beach area were

[53:28] neglected

[53:30] by the group and this report because

[53:33] they said that it wasn't important to

[53:35] them. Well, all tests are important no

[53:38] matter,

[53:40] you know, who does the tests or not. Um,

[53:45] we did have two gentlemen that spoke

[53:47] tonight again that said it may be sewer

[53:49] cracks. We've had our DPW, we've had

[53:52] Stantech, we've had our town manager all

[53:54] said that that's not the way the system

[53:56] and hydraology works and they work with

[53:59] hydrarology on a regular basis. The rest

[54:01] of us don't. Um

[54:05] the very first test that was done that

[54:08] had high high levels, that was the one

[54:11] where um it was smelled coming out of a

[54:15] pipe. Um, I took the test results,

[54:18] didn't have the liquid, but took the

[54:20] test results to UNH. UNH looked at the

[54:23] test results and said, and they said

[54:26] based on the um, nitrogen levels and

[54:31] ammonia levels in that test that it was

[54:35] very unlikely that it could be human.

[54:39] Um, and I know that that puddle is a

[54:42] contaminated and dirty puddle.

[54:45] We all know that lots of puddles that

[54:47] back up and sit stagnant for a long time

[54:50] are very very contaminated.

[54:53] Um there's questions about how health

[54:59] issues are with fecal matter and ecoli.

[55:03] And I hate to say this, but you do. I go

[55:06] to the sandwich fair and I go to the

[55:08] deer fail fair and I walk through the

[55:11] barns and I walk down the streets and I

[55:14] watch them hosing off the animals with

[55:17] manure and water running through the

[55:19] barns and I watch a thousand people an

[55:23] hour walk through including kids and

[55:26] sitting down and eating ice cream and

[55:28] patting the animals that are rolling

[55:30] around in their manure. People are not

[55:32] dropping dead at the Sandwich Fair or

[55:34] the Topsfield Fair or the Deerfield

[55:36] Fair.

[55:38] I don't think, my personal opinion, that

[55:40] somebody walking through the puddle is

[55:42] going to all of a sudden become so sick

[55:45] that that they're going to be

[55:46] hospitalized. It should be taken care

[55:49] of. It needs to not go into the lake. We

[55:52] have an issue with the level of the pipe

[55:54] and the level of the lake and the

[55:55] backing up as um as uh it was said by

[56:01] Steve Randall and um and by the the

[56:05] group tonight and our town manager and

[56:07] it's going to be taken care of. But we

[56:09] don't want to have the public

[56:13] feel like they are in extreme harm and

[56:17] danger walking around our town docks

[56:19] because that is not the case. Also, so

[56:22] that people know, even though the tests

[56:24] were done and our town docks were found

[56:26] swimmable,

[56:28] the town docks are not for swimming.

[56:31] There are lots of boats there. There is

[56:34] duck and geese contamination that comes

[56:36] off of those docks every morning that

[56:39] has to be cleaned up so people can use

[56:41] the docks. And there's how high power

[56:43] cables that run underneath those docks

[56:45] for when we put in our um our water

[56:49] bubblers, our air raators to stop ice

[56:53] from freezing around them. So, it's not

[56:55] a safe place to swim. So, when someone

[56:57] says I wouldn't let my kids swim there,

[56:59] I hope you they wouldn't because it's no

[57:02] swimming zone. It's marked that and it's

[57:03] not a safe place to be. And by the way,

[57:05] all marinas around the lake are areas

[57:08] that I would never swim in or all dock

[57:11] areas. And that's all

[57:14] >> I hang on.

[57:15] >> I would like to address the question

[57:17] about Miss Budman's participation with

[57:20] dees.

[57:22] There's a reason that that was not in

[57:23] the report. The reason that was not in

[57:26] the report is when we delivered the

[57:28] report to this board on July 1st

[57:32] following that meeting, Miss Budman

[57:34] along with Miss Blahett and Sebastian

[57:39] and others

[57:41] met outside. Miss Budman was keenly

[57:45] interested in what was going on and

[57:47] wanted the details. And I made one very

[57:50] specific short statement. If you really

[57:52] want to know what's going on, take the

[57:54] time to understand this and then give us

[57:57] people to talk to so we can convey how

[58:00] the tests were done.

[58:03] That was the word how it would be done

[58:06] and there are witnesses to that

[58:08] conversation here. What took place was

[58:11] that meeting ended, those people left,

[58:14] Miss Budman left, and I spent the next

[58:17] several days, was turned into weeks,

[58:20] asking, "Where are we on this? Who am I

[58:22] going to talk to?" Nothing. Nothing. And

[58:25] then a test showed up from Mr. Neils of

[58:30] Dees, Renie Pelier, Dees. I find it

[58:34] curious. They live right in Wolfboro,

[58:36] but they're ghosts in this process.

[58:40] Every state rep that I know of was

[58:42] copied on this, but nobody thought and I was, but nobody thought to ask us

[58:48] where did we test, but yet they did

[58:50] tests in the deep water at the end of

[58:52] the docks and at Brewster Beach,

[58:55] which is not what we were talking about

[58:56] at all. And if you had taken the time

[58:59] and courtesy to ask the question, you'd

[59:02] have gotten that answer from us to not

[59:04] waste your energies in the wrong

[59:05] direction. Now, Mr. Sebastian would like

[59:08] to answer one other comment and then

[59:10] Linda has a question.

[59:11] >> No, I I want to I have to something I

[59:13] want to I'll do after he does that has

[59:16] some history. It's not going at what was

[59:18] done.

[59:21] » Let's have a one-word answer.

[59:24] >> Dilution.

[59:25] >> Yes.

[59:25] >> Okay. So if we put

[59:30] nasty water

[59:31] >> y

[59:31] >> into out of the pipe in between some

[59:34] area of the dock, I doubt very much

[59:37] you're going to see it at Brewster

[59:38] Beach, which is where the testing was

[59:40] done for this budman, and also near the

[59:43] end of the dock, which is where the

[59:45] other test was done. As to your comment

[59:47] about the nitrogen and ammonia, again, I

[59:50] use the same word, dilution. If it truly

[59:53] is groundwater, it's contaminated

[59:55] groundwater, okay? [snorts] It's not

[59:57] going to carry the full load of

[59:58] nitrogen. And also, by the way, if it is

[1:00:02] uh has any time to ferment, the nitrogen

[1:00:07] gets consumed and goes into some other

[1:00:10] sort of compound. It doesn't come out as

[1:00:12] pure nitrogen anymore. So no, I don't I

[1:00:17] don't uh and and the last item is that

[1:00:22] on that letter that you refer to which

[1:00:25] I've read

[1:00:26] >> which you have

[1:00:28] >> given me on numerous times uh I believe

[1:00:31] it was either the first second sentence

[1:00:32] or something like that they say that

[1:00:34] well you really shouldn't be doing this

[1:00:36] you really can't do this but you know as

[1:00:38] an educated guess. Okay so I take it as

[1:00:42] that an educated guess. I don't take it

[1:00:44] as gospel. Just like I say what what my

[1:00:47] theory is that it's contaminated

[1:00:49] groundwater. I don't take that as

[1:00:51] gospel. I'm telling you it's a theory.

[1:00:53] It's a thesis. I want to disprove it or

[1:00:57] prove it. One or the other.

[1:01:00] >> Thanks, Sebastian.

[1:01:00] >> Second. Jim,

[1:01:05] I understand what you're saying about

[1:01:06] the INI, the cracks or whatever, but if

[1:01:08] you have a pipe, and like I told you

[1:01:10] when we had this conversation a few days

[1:01:12] ago,

[1:01:14] nobody ever said anything or noticed

[1:01:16] anything about uh contaminated water,

[1:01:19] you know, nasty water or smells coming

[1:01:21] out of that uh pipe under the dock until

[1:01:24] right after we did the water man. So

[1:01:27] when I heard that or when this first

[1:01:29] happened, I said, 'Well, since we just

[1:01:31] did all this street work, is it possible

[1:01:33] that somebody hit the sewer line, is it

[1:01:36] possible that if the sewer line is below

[1:01:38] and they were compacting the ground and

[1:01:40] they were beating it with a uh an

[1:01:43] excavator shovel that they may have

[1:01:44] taken the lowest part of the pipe and

[1:01:47] done that and cracked the bottom of it.

[1:01:50] >> And then wouldn't it leak if there was a

[1:01:52] crack in the bottom of the pipe? not one

[1:01:55] of these small cracks or fissures that

[1:01:57] we're talking about during INI. I don't

[1:01:59] know. I think it's possible. I mean,

[1:02:02] I've seen I've worked around power

[1:02:03] plants. I've seen things you wouldn't

[1:02:05] believe could ever happen, but I've seen

[1:02:06] them. So, that's my rebuttal to all of

[1:02:11] this. It's still a theory. I'm not

[1:02:14] saying it's absolute, but it serves us better if we can test it

[1:02:22] and disprove it.

[1:02:24] Thank you, sir. Thank you, Linda.

[1:02:26] >> Yeah, I I want to go back and do a

[1:02:28] little history and and thank you for

[1:02:30] doing the testing. I you know, we all

[1:02:33] are concerned about the quarter quality

[1:02:35] of our water. But in September in uh

[1:02:40] 2017, Titan Bomb did an assessment of

[1:02:43] the town docks. Based on that

[1:02:45] assessment, the town started a fourphase

[1:02:48] uh project to repair the town docks. The

[1:02:51] town completed two the first three

[1:02:54] phases. The fourth phase was to repair

[1:02:58] the seaw wall in Smith River and redo

[1:03:02] the parking lot. Co hit in 2022. The

[1:03:07] town developed a large project to

[1:03:09] address water sewer drainage from

[1:03:12] Pickering Corner to the downtown Smith

[1:03:15] River Bridge. The drainage phase

[1:03:18] includes the dockside drainage system.

[1:03:21] In 2023, voters approved the first phase

[1:03:25] of an estimated $12 million water sewer

[1:03:28] drainage project from the Pickering

[1:03:30] Corner to the downtown Smith River with

[1:03:33] state grant funds including ARPA funds

[1:03:37] covering half of a $4 million cost of

[1:03:40] the water phase. In 2024,

[1:03:44] voters approved Warren Article 8 200,000

[1:03:48] and it passed by 66.7%

[1:03:51] to engineer the replacement of that

[1:03:54] sewer line. At a work session on

[1:03:57] September 30th, 2026,

[1:04:00] Steve Randall stated that he submitted

[1:04:03] to the CIP committee the replacement of

[1:04:07] the Pickering Corner to downtown Smith

[1:04:10] River Bridge sewer line for 2027

[1:04:15] and to start the engineering of the

[1:04:18] drainage system which would include the

[1:04:21] dockside parking uh lot drainage. I

[1:04:24] support following that plan and starting

[1:04:27] the engineering work on the drainage

[1:04:29] system from Pickering Corner to the

[1:04:32] downtown bridge which includes the dock

[1:04:35] side. I think it's time for us to have

[1:04:38] our engineers looking at it and coming

[1:04:40] up with a solution which will address

[1:04:42] your concern about our sewer pipe and

[1:04:46] will address our issues in terms of the

[1:04:49] drainage. This is on the table to get

[1:04:53] going. It's important that we get people

[1:04:54] out and support these warrant articles.

[1:04:57] >> The town knows it needs to do something

[1:05:01] in this area and that's where we've been

[1:05:03] working and it sometimes with government

[1:05:07] it takes a long time to get to the right

[1:05:10] place.

[1:05:11] >> Board members, anybody else?

[1:05:15] Dave, Brian,

[1:05:17] >> the only other thing the only thing that

[1:05:19] I want to just reiterate is the test

[1:05:23] from UNH was not a deep water test. It

[1:05:26] was a test that was done for water that

[1:05:29] came directly out of the first pipe that

[1:05:32] was found that's now capped off that had

[1:05:34] high levels. And the test results were

[1:05:38] not diluted based on that water being

[1:05:41] tested. there was not enough nitrogen

[1:05:44] and ammonia in it to say that it was

[1:05:47] human sewage. Whenever we've done a test

[1:05:51] through Stantech or dees or through our

[1:05:53] department of public works, they've

[1:05:55] followed the appropriate standards. Some

[1:05:58] people might not believe them, but they

[1:06:00] have followed the appropriate standards.

[1:06:02] When a test is done, if it has a high

[1:06:06] ecoli or um fecal matter test, they do a

[1:06:13] second test to check for

[1:06:16] uh DNA. Now, it's not none of the tests

[1:06:19] have shown that there's no DNA in it.

[1:06:22] They have shown inclusive what DNA it

[1:06:26] is. They've tested for um dogs, birds,

[1:06:30] and humans and have not found it. But

[1:06:33] they haven't tested for

[1:06:36] other things, rodents, rats,

[1:06:40] other mammals. You can only test for so

[1:06:43] many different things, as Jeff Owen

[1:06:45] said. But we know that it's not human

[1:06:49] septic that has been f every test we've

[1:06:52] done for species or that were analyzed

[1:06:56] even if a species test wasn't done none

[1:06:58] of them have come up with human DNA.

[1:07:03] >> Okay. Uh Brian, thank you for that.

[1:07:05] Thank you for uh for doing this. I'd

[1:07:07] like to just if I could

[1:07:12] add a thought. Um,

[1:07:17] so last week or the week before we had u

[1:07:21] Mr. Randall with his 22 episodes of

[1:07:25] testing. We've had these uh episodes of

[1:07:28] testing. We've had conversations,

[1:07:31] discussions about where it's coming

[1:07:33] from, why it's coming, where it might be

[1:07:35] coming from. Um,

[1:07:39] and again, not to be disrespectful, but

[1:07:41] stop.

[1:07:43] I I'm convinced that there's something

[1:07:45] going on down there.

[1:07:48] Just stop with the baloney. I mean, I'm

[1:07:50] convinced of it. I just don't know

[1:07:52] whether it's a real deal or not. I don't

[1:07:54] know how bad it is. I don't know where

[1:07:57] it's coming from. And I think that when

[1:08:00] I read Derek, when I read u your team's

[1:08:03] report and I and I looked at what we

[1:08:06] discussed the other day with Steve,

[1:08:10] I'm going to steal the line again from

[1:08:12] the town manager.

[1:08:15] You know, if you we're close to each

[1:08:17] other on saying there's a problem,

[1:08:20] something's hosed up.

[1:08:23] A project is going through capital

[1:08:25] improvement

[1:08:27] and it's up to the town manager and

[1:08:29] Steve and you folks to decide how you

[1:08:31] want to collaborate on how that project

[1:08:34] gets realized.

[1:08:36] Do we do drainage first? Do we do sewer

[1:08:38] first? Where do we start? That project

[1:08:41] right now is at the capital improvement

[1:08:43] stage and it's going to go on a Warren

[1:08:44] article this year unless we five of us

[1:08:47] decide we don't want to do that and I

[1:08:49] bet you we'd get

[1:08:51] >> we get thrown out the window. Um

[1:08:55] throwing money at the problem is a dumb

[1:08:57] idea.

[1:08:59] You guys generic term including Suzanne

[1:09:02] you guys are invested in it.

[1:09:06] We're invested in it. In my opinion,

[1:09:09] it's coming through CIP. It's going to

[1:09:11] come out the door for engineering and

[1:09:12] design.

[1:09:14] Whether you believe or don't believe,

[1:09:16] you know, the engineering firms we use,

[1:09:19] you know, have at it.

[1:09:22] But we I think, you know, I think

[1:09:24] they're good people.

[1:09:26] So we got to move towards

[1:09:36] a solution.

[1:09:38] We're debating data.

[1:09:42] Our data, your data, what time of day

[1:09:44] you took it, custody of uh of the

[1:09:46] samples, where it should have been done,

[1:09:48] where it didn't get done. I'm I'm

[1:09:50] personally and and you know, Mr.

[1:09:53] Thirsten,

[1:09:54] I remember when he was on the planning

[1:09:56] board,

[1:09:58] was barking about this a couple of years

[1:10:00] ago, saying, "We got to do something in

[1:10:01] that parking lot." I remember Linda

[1:10:04] saying, "We got to do something in that

[1:10:05] parking lot."

[1:10:07] >> Well, it's now time to start spending

[1:10:08] money if you want to do something in

[1:10:10] that parking lot. I don't know whether

[1:10:12] it's coming out of the Latchaw building

[1:10:13] or coming out of the Avery building. I I

[1:10:16] don't know whether we have a seam under

[1:10:17] to your point, I don't know. We have a

[1:10:18] seam underneath a sewer line. I don't

[1:10:21] know. You just got to go find it out.

[1:10:25] And that's what an engineering and

[1:10:27] design

[1:10:30] um

[1:10:32] initiative should be all about. And Jim

[1:10:34] has only been here now, I think it's a

[1:10:36] week and four days, five days. Um and

[1:10:39] he's going to have to get enscconced in

[1:10:41] what's going through CIP.

[1:10:43] Um

[1:10:46] and that's about all I have to say about

[1:10:47] it. I think I I like the idea we should

[1:10:50] do the testing in the springtime. Some

[1:10:51] people say should we do testing next

[1:10:53] month. I really don't give a rat's

[1:10:54] ankle. I just want to know what the

[1:10:57] solution is and I want to have a

[1:10:58] fullthroated debate with all of the

[1:11:01] people who have relevancy

[1:11:04] to the question, not irrelevancy to the

[1:11:07] question.

[1:11:08] So that's kind of where I come out on

[1:11:10] it. Thank you very much for doing this

[1:11:11] and I appreciate your report because

[1:11:13] when I read your recommend your summary

[1:11:14] and your recommendations, I couldn't

[1:11:16] help but believe that we're close. I

[1:11:18] mean, we're not we're not we're not in

[1:11:20] two different parts of the country here.

[1:11:21] We're not in two different zip codes.

[1:11:23] We're pretty close.

[1:11:26] I just encourage us all to put the the

[1:11:28] [clears throat] personal stuff down and

[1:11:30] we'll do the best we can on my side and

[1:11:33] uh move forward. Thank you everybody.

[1:11:36] Next item on our agenda is grant

[1:11:39] language update. I'm going to read

[1:11:41] something into the record to correct a

[1:11:43] motion and this is for the Wolf Bro

[1:11:45] Police Highway Safety Grant. So, Captain

[1:11:49] Libby, you wrote this for us and if I

[1:11:50] get it wrong again, just throw something

[1:11:54] at me. The select board in a majority

[1:11:56] vote accepted the terms of the highway

[1:11:57] safety grant as presented in the amount

[1:11:59] of $11,000.

[1:12:02] Did I get that right?

[1:12:05] We have to do that because people who uh

[1:12:07] write grants and approve grants are

[1:12:08] pretty uh pretty specific about what you

[1:12:11] have to do.

[1:12:14] Next item on the agenda is the uh rural

[1:12:17] roads committee.

[1:12:18] >> Mr. Chair, excuse me,

[1:12:19] >> Mr. Town Manager.

[1:12:21] >> I I did want to actually propose a

[1:12:24] slight edit um to that motion.

[1:12:27] >> Oh, no. Not to the captain. [laughter]

[1:12:31] It's it's very similar, but it would

[1:12:33] just make it um 100% clear. And so the

[1:12:37] language is to vote to accept the terms

[1:12:41] of the highway safety grant as

[1:12:43] prescribed in the amount of $11 million

[1:12:47] >> and to authorize the town manager to do

[1:12:49] all things to effectuate the grant,

[1:12:52] including applying and receiving funds.

[1:12:55] >> So moved.

[1:12:56] >> Second.

[1:12:57] >> It wasn't 11 million though, was it? I I

[1:12:59] was going to say it's not 11 million.

[1:13:02] >> 11,000. I'm sorry.

[1:13:03] >> It was 11 million.

[1:13:04] >> As amended.

[1:13:05] [laughter]

[1:13:06] >> All right. So, we have a motion.

[1:13:07] >> I want 11 million.

[1:13:09] >> For $11,000. You want to read it one

[1:13:10] more time, sir?

[1:13:12] >> Yes. Vote to accept the terms of the

[1:13:13] highway safety grant as presented in the

[1:13:16] amount of $11,000

[1:13:18] and to authorize the town manager to do

[1:13:20] all things to effectuate the grant,

[1:13:23] including applying and receiving funds.

[1:13:25] Could I get the board member to uh make

[1:13:28] that as a motion, please?

[1:13:29] >> I so moved.

[1:13:30] >> Can I get a second? Thank you.

[1:13:33] >> Any conversation?

[1:13:34] >> All those in favor? I

[1:13:36] >> Thank you very much.

[1:13:38] >> Thanks, Jim. Appreciate that.

[1:13:39] >> Sure.

[1:13:40] >> All right. The next item on the agenda

[1:13:41] is Rural Roads Committee.

[1:13:45] » Yes. I I'll speak to it since I was the

[1:13:48] select person who put out the ad. Um and

[1:13:52] I would like to table it. I got here

[1:13:54] tonight to find the list of people. We

[1:13:57] only got a couple in our our packet. Um

[1:14:01] and um I just would like to have a mix

[1:14:04] of people from all areas and there's

[1:14:06] some people and roads. I'm not quite

[1:14:08] sure where there are. If not, if the

[1:14:11] board doesn't want to do that, we can

[1:14:13] just kind of go down through. I will say

[1:14:16] I will call the first meeting to order

[1:14:18] and whoever's on it, somebody else is

[1:14:20] going to chair it. I'm just the person

[1:14:22] who's going to get the the committee

[1:14:24] established.

[1:14:25] >> So, we have a uh Have you made the

[1:14:26] motion, Linda?

[1:14:27] >> I I just want Why don't we first make

[1:14:29] comments before I make the motion? I

[1:14:31] don't know where the rest of me are.

[1:14:32] That's what I'm feeling. I didn't have a

[1:14:34] chance to really look at it, but if

[1:14:36] everybody else is comfortable, I would

[1:14:38] move ahead. If they aren't agree with

[1:14:40] me, then I will make a motion to table.

[1:14:43] >> The uh first item is just for the

[1:14:45] benefit of those people who are signing

[1:14:47] up. um we

[1:14:50] have kind of taken it as a practice and

[1:14:52] I don't know if it's a policy but a

[1:14:54] practice

[1:14:56] that select board members don't chair

[1:14:58] committees

[1:15:01] that members of the public chair

[1:15:02] committees

[1:15:04] and um so that's what Linda was saying

[1:15:06] is the first meeting

[1:15:09] the first person to speak comes the

[1:15:11] chair

[1:15:12] >> has to be chair could be a short meeting

[1:15:15] um so with that uh board members uh what

[1:15:19] do you want to do

[1:15:21] >> John?

[1:15:21] >> So you have you have seven names on this

[1:15:24] list. Are these the are these the seven

[1:15:26] that have contacted us to be on the

[1:15:29] committee?

[1:15:30] >> That's correct.

[1:15:30] >> Correct.

[1:15:31] >> And we said that we were going to

[1:15:33] convene a committee.

[1:15:36] >> The people have spoken who want to be on

[1:15:39] the committee.

[1:15:40] >> So I would make a motion to adopt all

[1:15:43] these names for the rural roads

[1:15:45] committee.

[1:15:47] I have a motion.

[1:15:52] » Well, we didn't specify how many.

[1:15:57] >> I thought we talked about five and then

[1:15:59] with myself and Steve Randall was what I

[1:16:03] thought that made the seven that I think

[1:16:05] we talked about last time.

[1:16:07] >> Yeah.

[1:16:08] >> I mean, we can change it. That's

[1:16:10] >> Yeah. Right.

[1:16:10] >> You know,

[1:16:12] >> Mr. Thirsten has a motion. I'll second

[1:16:15] that.

[1:16:16] >> We have a motion and a second

[1:16:18] conversation.

[1:16:21] >> I just think that there are a lot in the

[1:16:23] same area. Um,

[1:16:27] and that means that the votes go

[1:16:31] in a certain way and that's what

[1:16:33] concerns me. That's why we were going to

[1:16:35] kind of spread it out. But if that's the

[1:16:38] majority of the board, I I I can go on.

[1:16:40] I

[1:16:40] >> mean, this this is advisory. Am I

[1:16:42] correct?

[1:16:43] >> Correct. But we're trying to figure out

[1:16:46] how we want to put together the

[1:16:50] guidelines that we hope will control

[1:16:53] what happens.

[1:16:55] >> Anybody else?

[1:16:56] >> Yep.

[1:16:57] >> John.

[1:16:57] >> So I think what we see here is we have

[1:17:01] equal representation to each road in the

[1:17:04] area. Actually, Mr. Dohy, Mr. Hopewell,

[1:17:08] uh I don't know where Mr. Bower is,

[1:17:10] Kayla Hewitt, and Mr. Rosener. They all

[1:17:12] live on all different rural roads

[1:17:14] >> in the in North Wolf Bar.

[1:17:17] >> Are there other rural roads in town?

[1:17:18] That was my my concern. But

[1:17:22] >> I would vote them all in or if that's

[1:17:24] where the majority wants. That's why I

[1:17:27] asked for us to have a conversation.

[1:17:28] >> So I'm I'm I'm having the conversation

[1:17:30] with you and I think that's where most

[1:17:32] of our rural roads are uh the focus

[1:17:35] right now.

[1:17:39] » Anybody else?

[1:17:41] my name on that list.

[1:17:43] >> No, it's not Charlene.

[1:17:49] » Well, we had See, we had a date,

[1:17:51] >> right,

[1:17:52] >> of October 2nd.

[1:17:56] >> All right, it's closed. I'd just like to

[1:17:58] remind the select board that at the very

[1:18:01] first meeting last April when you

[1:18:04] establish you voted to establish this

[1:18:06] committee, I stood up in front of this

[1:18:09] assembly and publicly volunteered to

[1:18:12] serve on that committee and I

[1:18:15] >> would be surprised if all of you managed

[1:18:17] to forget that.

[1:18:21] » Okay. Well,

[1:18:22] >> I didn't forget that, Charlene. And uh

[1:18:25] the the discussion was rebrought up

[1:18:31] after

[1:18:32] uh a month ago.

[1:18:34] >> Well, her name isn't on here. So,

[1:18:37] >> so if I would add her name to it because

[1:18:40] she did

[1:18:40] >> Okay, that's that's I'm I'm fine with it

[1:18:44] because I think I remember you do

[1:18:46] standing up. We did put an I did have an

[1:18:49] ad in the in on the town website and it

[1:18:52] was in the paper and it was October 2nd

[1:18:55] was the date

[1:18:58] is too much information.

[1:19:04] So, if there's too many people on the on

[1:19:06] the list, is that is that too many?

[1:19:09] You're you're asking for people to

[1:19:12] be a part of a committee and they all

[1:19:15] represent a different area of the town

[1:19:17] [snorts] and they're they're all road

[1:19:19] owners of different locations, I don't

[1:19:21] really see the problem. If they if they

[1:19:24] want to drop out on the committee and

[1:19:25] they think that there's too many people

[1:19:26] and they can't get together, then then

[1:19:29] let them decide that. I

[1:19:32] >> a hand just went up in the audience of

[1:19:33] another person. [snorts]

[1:19:36] >> Well, I whatever. You know, I think we I

[1:19:40] think you set a time frame. You you you

[1:19:43] advertise for it and people need to

[1:19:45] respond and then all of a sudden anybody

[1:19:47] comes to a meeting. You know, I

[1:19:51] >> I think we should just

[1:19:53] >> I read that I read that notice at a

[1:19:55] meeting so people would know it. Um I

[1:19:58] don't care how many people are on it.

[1:20:00] >> [music]

[1:20:00] >> We had talked as a board, the reason I

[1:20:02] brought this up, we had talked to the

[1:20:04] board about the number. We had a long

[1:20:06] discussion about whether the public

[1:20:09] works director could be on it. This is

[1:20:11] what we had said. That is why I came

[1:20:14] forward and may and am talking about it

[1:20:16] now. If we want to put them all on,

[1:20:19] that's fine. But I was going from what

[1:20:21] we had said prior.

[1:20:23] >> So I I would do it two ways. Two

[1:20:25] different ways. You can either put them

[1:20:27] all on or you can take and we have if

[1:20:29] Derek is now on wants to be on two. You

[1:20:32] got one, two, three, four, five, six,

[1:20:34] seven, eight, nine.

[1:20:35] >> Stacy.

[1:20:36] wants to be on too.

[1:20:38] [clears throat]

[1:20:39] >> Oh, does Derek want to be on? Stacy.

[1:20:42] Okay, so here we go. It's it's it's

[1:20:43] growing. One, two, hold on. One, two,

[1:20:47] three, four, five, six, seven, eight,

[1:20:49] nine, 10 in addition to Steve, Randall,

[1:20:52] and Linda. So I would say that at our

[1:20:56] next meeting we take 10 [snorts] names

[1:20:59] in a hat, we draw them out and and we

[1:21:02] pick out five and then you have a

[1:21:04] committee of seven.

[1:21:05] >> There's a question in the audience.

[1:21:09] >> We're we're discussing it here, John.

[1:21:10] >> Yeah.

[1:21:11] >> Well, we just let people from the

[1:21:12] audience come up. We people stand up.

[1:21:15] >> You know, my feeling is if he raises his

[1:21:18] hand, he should be able to say it

[1:21:19] because you let people stand up and come

[1:21:21] to the phone.

[1:21:23] got a question.

[1:21:24] >> I [snorts] mean, I think that's a fair

[1:21:26] way to do it is pick five out of a hat.

[1:21:31] » Well, [cough and clears throat] either

[1:21:32] >> all Russer Wolfsboro,

[1:21:35] >> uh, the suggestion that you've made, Mr.

[1:21:38] Duche is poor.

[1:21:39] >> You don't choose is poor.

[1:21:41] >> Well, I said all or pick it out of a

[1:21:43] hat.

[1:21:45] >> You pick out the people who you think

[1:21:46] are best suited. Okay, that's number

[1:21:48] one. Number two,

[1:21:51] uh I think correct me if I'm wrong, Mrs.

[1:21:53] Murray, but we've convened such a

[1:21:55] committee in 2018.

[1:21:57] >> We did.

[1:21:57] And I was a member of that

[1:22:00] committee, that committee worked

[1:22:02] >> amicably and amiably together. And the

[1:22:05] only thing I would say as to the numbers

[1:22:08] >> is that in a committee like this, at any

[1:22:10] given meeting of the committee,

[1:22:13] two, three, four people don't show up.

[1:22:15] >> So you're not going to have 10 people

[1:22:17] there. And that's perfectly explainable.

[1:22:19] It's understandable that the work of the

[1:22:21] committee can go forward because the

[1:22:24] members who are there assembled have a

[1:22:27] common consciousness of what's been

[1:22:28] discussed and what the next meeting

[1:22:30] might be about. So I think that solves

[1:22:32] the problem of the number.

[1:22:34] >> Thank you.

[1:22:34] >> Thanks Claude. And well, I would say

[1:22:37] this of the people on this list, I am

[1:22:40] not going to discount any as not being

[1:22:42] capable because that would be very, I

[1:22:45] think, um, pompous of me to say that

[1:22:49] some people are more intelligent or more

[1:22:52] suited to be on a committee than others.

[1:22:54] I wouldn't know what they would bring

[1:22:56] until they came to the committee and

[1:22:58] spoke and and and showed up.

[1:23:00] >> Great.

[1:23:00] >> So, if you want all of them, then have

[1:23:03] all of them,

[1:23:03] >> Linda? Well, you know, I I believe with

[1:23:06] Stacy Pope on here, it gives some to

[1:23:09] another section of town, and that's kind

[1:23:12] of what I think there needs to be some

[1:23:14] kind of a balance. That was one of my

[1:23:15] problems with the first group. Thank

[1:23:17] you,

[1:23:18] >> son.

[1:23:20] >> But you said it earlier, Linda, there

[1:23:22] was a date set for people to sign up.

[1:23:24] >> Yes, I did.

[1:23:26] >> They did not.

[1:23:27] >> That's correct.

[1:23:29] So, if we keep going to our meetings and

[1:23:32] people keep volunteering and

[1:23:34] volunteering, some of these committees

[1:23:36] are going to get out of hand. But I

[1:23:37] don't have a problem with the numbers. I

[1:23:40] think they're all from that general

[1:23:41] area.

[1:23:43] Some of them have buted heads in the

[1:23:46] past.

[1:23:47] >> It's okay.

[1:23:48] >> So, and I don't have a problem with

[1:23:49] that. I don't I don't really care how

[1:23:51] many are on it. I think we ought to get

[1:23:53] it started.

[1:23:55] >> Stand. Mr. Pardon, would you introduce

[1:23:57] yourself, please? Mike Parton,

[1:23:58] >> thank you.

[1:23:59] >> If we're going to split hairs over

[1:24:00] technicalities,

[1:24:01] as a select person Murray acknowledged,

[1:24:06] Charlene Cybel had volunteered and she's

[1:24:08] not on the list. So, if you're going to

[1:24:11] >> Yep.

[1:24:12] >> not include people who volunteered by

[1:24:15] the date, then you need to include

[1:24:17] people who do volunteer subsequent of

[1:24:19] the date.

[1:24:20] >> Thanks for that.

[1:24:20] >> Just my opinion.

[1:24:21] >> Yep. Thanks for that.

[1:24:23] >> Okay, folks.

[1:24:25] [sighs] We want to do

[1:24:27] We can move the the list. John,

[1:24:30] >> call the question on all the people that

[1:24:32] have signed up for the list.

[1:24:33] >> Do you want to read them?

[1:24:34] >> Let's read the Let's read the name so

[1:24:36] there's no ambiguity.

[1:24:37] >> These are the three. And Derek Brown,

[1:24:39] did you say you wanted to be on it?

[1:24:42] >> Okay. So, the new ones are that aren't

[1:24:44] listed as Charlene, uh, Cyos, Stacy

[1:24:47] Pope, and Derek Brown.

[1:24:48] >> Let's read the entire list, though, if

[1:24:50] you wouldn't mind. So then we're going

[1:24:51] to add Kayla Hewitt, Claude Rosinger,

[1:24:53] Jonathan Hopewell, Ryan Bower, Jonathan

[1:24:56] Dohy, John Larson, and Brad Herman, and

[1:25:00] Stacy and Derek

[1:25:02] >> and Charlene.

[1:25:04] >> That's the list.

[1:25:06] >> And Steve Randall, and Linda.

[1:25:08] >> Yes, Steve is a standing member of the

[1:25:09] committee.

[1:25:10] >> And I am.

[1:25:11] >> And Linda.

[1:25:12] >> Yep.

[1:25:12] >> Okay, that's the list. Can I get a

[1:25:14] motion to accept that as the rural roads

[1:25:16] committee, please?

[1:25:18] >> So moved.

[1:25:19] >> I have a motion. I have a second. Did we

[1:25:21] already have a motion?

[1:25:22] >> Yes, we did.

[1:25:23] >> But at that No, but at that point, we

[1:25:25] didn't have all the names on it. The

[1:25:27] motion

[1:25:27] >> it was already,

[1:25:28] >> but the motion was before we added three

[1:25:30] names.

[1:25:31] >> So, this I would say this is this is the

[1:25:35] motion that is

[1:25:37] >> we can

[1:25:37] >> unless unless anybody's got a problem.

[1:25:39] I'm just going to say that we're going

[1:25:40] to back out that prior motion. I'm going

[1:25:42] to re ask that you put a motion on to

[1:25:44] accept that out a list of candidates for

[1:25:47] rural roads committee. Can I get a

[1:25:48] second?

[1:25:50] I'll second that.

[1:25:50] >> I got a motion and a second. Any more

[1:25:52] conversation?

[1:25:54] >> We're ready to go.

[1:25:55] >> Yep.

[1:25:55] >> All those in favor? I

[1:25:57] >> I.

[1:25:58] >> We're good. Unanimous.

[1:26:00] >> Can I say anybody who just signed up, if

[1:26:03] you would make sure that Amy has your

[1:26:06] email.

[1:26:07] >> I will send out the first email, try to

[1:26:09] come up with the date. All of you think

[1:26:12] and decide who might want to be chair.

[1:26:15] >> Yeah. First person who speaks gets to be

[1:26:17] the chair.

[1:26:21] Okay.

[1:26:22] All right. Next item on the agenda is

[1:26:24] the uh procurement policy. Uh last time

[1:26:27] we visited with uh our finance director

[1:26:29] who if you haven't met in Adam um uh I

[1:26:33] think there was an ask by uh one of our

[1:26:35] board members made that uh made that

[1:26:38] adjustment.

[1:26:40] >> Make a motion to uh approve the uh

[1:26:42] procurement policy. Please

[1:26:44] >> so moved. Second.

[1:26:45] >> I have a motion and a second. And all

[1:26:47] those in favor? I.

[1:26:48] >> We're good.

[1:26:50] >> Like to get a motion to move into the

[1:26:51] Libby trustees meeting.

[1:26:53] >> So move.

[1:26:54] >> Second.

[1:26:55] >> Have a motion and a second. Okay. So

[1:26:57] we're uh All those in favor? I

[1:26:59] >> I.

[1:27:00] >> We're in. Okay. Good. Um couple of

[1:27:02] things. Mr. uh uh Mr. Duchets uh wants

[1:27:05] to update us on a few items. We'll have

[1:27:08] a conversation about what's going on

[1:27:09] with the uh with the charitable trust. I

[1:27:12] think people are interested in knowing

[1:27:14] about that. So Brian, uh, we'll leave it

[1:27:16] with you. We'll start it up.

[1:27:17] >> So, um, we've been doing a a little bit

[1:27:20] of, um, work on trying to figure out the

[1:27:23] best way to,

[1:27:26] uh, move and store the artifacts. We've

[1:27:29] had some artifacts that um, loaners have

[1:27:33] come back and had returned to them

[1:27:34] because they wanted their artifacts

[1:27:36] back. So, we have a lot of moving

[1:27:40] pieces. We have um just um Amy Capomio,

[1:27:45] our administrative assistant to the town

[1:27:48] manager who's trying to make sure that

[1:27:51] things are found, things get back to

[1:27:53] people. Moving companies are hired,

[1:27:55] moving companies keep backing out. Um

[1:27:58] that all the all the um artifacts get

[1:28:02] someplace safe and we were hoping before

[1:28:05] the snow flies this winter. So, um, I've

[1:28:08] been helping her a little bit, but I

[1:28:10] thought it would be a much better idea

[1:28:14] if we got some more horsepower behind

[1:28:16] this. So, I have a draft letter that I

[1:28:20] would like the board to approve. Um, and

[1:28:22] it is, dear uh, friends of the Libby

[1:28:26] Museum and Libby Museum Preservation

[1:28:28] Society. The Libby uh, Museum trustees

[1:28:31] would like to form a subcommittee. The

[1:28:34] subcommittee would have one member from

[1:28:36] each group, the Libby Museum trustees,

[1:28:39] the friends of the Libby Museum, and the

[1:28:41] Libby Museum Preservation Society as

[1:28:44] members. The objective is to work

[1:28:46] jointly and share expenses equally as we

[1:28:50] finalize a plan to move and store the

[1:28:53] artifacts. I believe that all need to

[1:28:56] work toward accomplishing this endeavor.

[1:28:58] Please respond as soon as possible so

[1:29:01] that we can move the artifacts into safe

[1:29:04] storage. So this um if the board

[1:29:06] approves, I want this to be sent out to

[1:29:09] those two groups. Um I'm already

[1:29:12] kneedeep in this because I I was the one

[1:29:16] that went and found the appraiser who is

[1:29:18] will be finishing the appraisal in um

[1:29:22] the second week of November. They're

[1:29:24] behind schedule a little because they

[1:29:25] found out that there was a lot more

[1:29:26] artifacts that had to do research on

[1:29:28] than they thought. Um I I've been

[1:29:31] helping Amy and meeting with moving

[1:29:34] companies down at the Libby Museum.

[1:29:37] We're looking for people to store it and

[1:29:39] we've been reaching out to different um

[1:29:41] museum organizations in the northeast to

[1:29:45] find people that would take some of our

[1:29:47] artifacts on loan, some of the large

[1:29:49] ones to keep them safe in a good

[1:29:52] environment where the public could still

[1:29:54] see them. They would be on loan and we

[1:29:56] could get them back. But that entails us

[1:29:58] finding all the people that loan them,

[1:30:01] contacting them, making sure they will

[1:30:03] allow us to move them to another

[1:30:05] location, or do they want them back?

[1:30:08] There's a lot of work involved in this,

[1:30:10] and we could use some help. And I would

[1:30:13] hope that I could get a representative

[1:30:15] from each of those two boards

[1:30:17] to come and um help and if they could

[1:30:23] even have their members assist them so

[1:30:27] that the more hands we have on this the

[1:30:30] quicker and easier it will happen. Um I

[1:30:33] did get a call today from uh Jeff

[1:30:35] Okonnell from the friends of the Libby

[1:30:38] Museum. He is going to bring this up

[1:30:40] with his group. We have a meeting in

[1:30:43] November because tomorrow's was

[1:30:45] cancelled. They cancelled that meeting.

[1:30:48] We're running out of time for this

[1:30:49] winter to get the stuff out. If it

[1:30:51] doesn't get [snorts] out, it stays in

[1:30:52] the building for another winter that's

[1:30:54] not doing the artifacts any good. And

[1:30:57] the building structurally should make it

[1:30:59] through the winter. Unless we have a

[1:31:01] real real bad winter with a lot of heavy

[1:31:03] snow that builds up on it, you never

[1:31:04] know what would happen with leaks and

[1:31:06] cracks in in an old building. So that's

[1:31:09] what I am.

[1:31:10] >> Yeah. I I I support um this letter. I

[1:31:13] support having a key person in each of

[1:31:17] these groups, but I believe with the

[1:31:20] amount of artifacts there and the amount

[1:31:23] of work that needs to be done, it's

[1:31:25] going to take members of each of those

[1:31:27] groups. This is a we've wanted to get

[1:31:30] those artifacts out of that museum for

[1:31:32] at least two years now. And um I support

[1:31:36] us putting some more um speed on doing

[1:31:40] it. We have, as Brian said, we have

[1:31:42] tried all sorts of different ways and we

[1:31:45] get to it and there's um a roadblock. Um

[1:31:49] and I think getting this organized, all

[1:31:51] three P groups working together is the

[1:31:54] right way for us to move forward.

[1:31:58] >> I agree. This is one of these uh Paul

[1:32:02] says stop kind of moments. Uh for the

[1:32:06] past year and a half, we've been sending

[1:32:07] letters back and forth to each other,

[1:32:08] volunteering to help each other, and it

[1:32:11] really hasn't gotten traction.

[1:32:13] I introduced a very bad word to some

[1:32:15] people called de accessioning that I was

[1:32:18] yelled at to do.

[1:32:21] The collection needs to find a way out

[1:32:24] of the building or it needs to stay in

[1:32:26] the building. It's one or the other. And

[1:32:29] we we need to put some resources against

[1:32:31] that to update our our policies, make

[1:32:35] sure that uh if somebody says they want

[1:32:37] something back that they can get it

[1:32:39] back, provided that we can demonstrate

[1:32:42] to the court that they legitimately are

[1:32:44] the owner donor.

[1:32:48] and to and to expect uh Amy and and and

[1:32:51] this person here to do that in my view

[1:32:56] is uh is not scale.

[1:32:58] It's it's subscale.

[1:33:01] It's not smart.

[1:33:03] And so um we took the decision with you

[1:33:07] folks to not tear the building down.

[1:33:10] That building is, as we said, a little

[1:33:12] bit raiky shaky. We want to [snorts] get

[1:33:15] the collection moved. If we can't, then

[1:33:18] we have to go to plan B. And I have no

[1:33:19] idea what that is. And I think what

[1:33:22] Brian has done is pretty I and I

[1:33:24] congratulate you for doing it, but it's

[1:33:26] hard. We got folks who walk in the

[1:33:28] building from a a prospective move point

[1:33:31] of view and they go, "No,

[1:33:33] nope, not doing it." So, we got to get

[1:33:35] some traction here. And that's uh with

[1:33:37] the newly formed groups to sit down in a

[1:33:40] room and figure out how to do that, I

[1:33:42] think is a smart thing to do. And we do

[1:33:44] have a letter from the friends of the

[1:33:46] Libby Museum dated January 21st, 2026

[1:33:50] that is reaffirming their November 19th,

[1:33:53] 2025 letter that said that they will

[1:33:55] assist us with um

[1:33:59] moving the collection, cleaning and

[1:34:01] moving the collection into a safe

[1:34:03] location.

[1:34:03] >> So board members, uh there is a letter

[1:34:06] uh sponsored by Mr. Duchets. Does

[1:34:07] anybody John go ahead? So, this is kind

[1:34:11] of like the kid who was supposed to take

[1:34:13] the test, but he didn't decide to test

[1:34:16] uh do the studying till the night

[1:34:18] before. We've been kicking this can down

[1:34:21] the road. Thankfully, Brian, you did do

[1:34:24] a lot of work. I do appreciate that, but

[1:34:27] we are running out the clock. We are We

[1:34:29] This was supposed to be done two years

[1:34:31] ago that we were supposed to do this

[1:34:35] >> and we're not going to use Amy's

[1:34:37] resources up. We're not going to eat up

[1:34:40] Brian's leftover energy to make it all

[1:34:43] happen. We need to hire somebody as one

[1:34:46] contact, one head who will facilitate

[1:34:49] the whole mission and be there all the

[1:34:53] time so that when stuff gets moved,

[1:34:56] movers come, they're there. They keep

[1:34:59] track of everything. It's one focus, one

[1:35:02] person, one entity. Then it's not all

[1:35:05] scattered. It's not a bunch of broken

[1:35:07] pieces. We need we have money in our

[1:35:10] bank account.

[1:35:13] » Not a lot. [snorts] I think the uh

[1:35:16] capital reserve account on the Libby is

[1:35:18] 80,000.

[1:35:19] >> Yeah.

[1:35:19] >> And uh uh last week when we did budget

[1:35:22] for the Libby

[1:35:24] um we moved the salary line down to the

[1:35:27] consulting line. So we picked up some

[1:35:28] money. All right. To do that and I'm not

[1:35:30] trying to be pecuniary about it. But the

[1:35:33] point of this is to your point, we we

[1:35:35] got to get some muscle on this thing and

[1:35:38] not part-time it

[1:35:41] leftover effort. I think Amy's probably

[1:35:43] doing cartwheels at home if this

[1:35:45] actually were to turn out. So, anything

[1:35:46] else from that, John? No. Thank you for

[1:35:48] that, Brian. Thank you. So, we got a

[1:35:50] letter here. Um, does any Go ahead.

[1:35:52] >> I I agree with John. We need one person,

[1:35:54] but to find somebody right now is going

[1:35:58] to be incredibly difficult. to find

[1:36:00] someone that is going to want to work

[1:36:02] full time moving those out. If somebody

[1:36:04] comes to us, but in the meantime, we

[1:36:07] can't just sit and wait.

[1:36:09] >> I think I think you're going to get more

[1:36:10] muscle eyes.

[1:36:11] >> I mean, to give to give an example, I've made some phone calls and I just

[1:36:14] need some help following up. the New

[1:36:17] England

[1:36:19] um Herbatlogical Society, which is a

[1:36:23] society that um specializes in reptiles,

[1:36:26] said that they would take, if we could

[1:36:28] deliver or get it delivered, the

[1:36:31] alligator and the large snapping turtle.

[1:36:34] That's two big items out of that museum

[1:36:36] that would then go into their facility

[1:36:39] to be stored, seen, loaned, and they

[1:36:41] would give back. The Dover Woodward

[1:36:44] Museum said that they showed in they

[1:36:47] showed interest to me in the skeletons

[1:36:49] and some of the large um

[1:36:55] artifacts, some of the the moose, the

[1:36:57] polar bear, things like that that they

[1:36:59] would be interested in those. Um, we

[1:37:03] had, um, talking to Libby Shannon from

[1:37:07] the Clock Museum. She said that she

[1:37:09] would be able to potentially take the

[1:37:11] firearms that are in there because

[1:37:13] they're period correct for the Clark

[1:37:14] Museum.

[1:37:15] >> Um, we have our librarian, Allison

[1:37:18] Rutley, who said that the collection of 10 or eight or 10 fans, oriental fans

[1:37:24] that are all nice in glass cases, that

[1:37:26] she could display those at the library.

[1:37:30] So, with a few people helping, we can

[1:37:33] start at least getting some of that

[1:37:34] stuff out of the way. Another

[1:37:36] possibility is taking and getting a

[1:37:39] conditioned um storage container put

[1:37:42] behind the building that would run AC

[1:37:45] and heat and moving a lot of the fragile

[1:37:48] artifacts, the taxiderermy and some of

[1:37:50] those directly to around the back of the

[1:37:53] building and put into a trailer that

[1:37:56] would stay there plugged in with

[1:37:58] electricity running. This is all stuff

[1:38:01] that can be that can be done but it

[1:38:03] shouldn't be done by one trustee of the

[1:38:05] select board and it shouldn't be done

[1:38:07] with a trustee of the select board

[1:38:10] making all these calls and then coming

[1:38:11] back to the other trustees and then

[1:38:13] asking the society the prevention the

[1:38:16] society for the protection of the living

[1:38:18] and asking the I mean I I can't be just

[1:38:20] going all in all different directions.

[1:38:22] >> Murray

[1:38:23] >> with a group we could do this together

[1:38:25] and at least get a lot of this stuff in

[1:38:28] safe places. Miss Murray.

[1:38:30] >> Yeah, I I am 100% behind, Brian, is that

[1:38:33] we have you have three key people who

[1:38:36] brings the direction back to the board,

[1:38:39] their boards and different members help

[1:38:42] to try to get this done. Brian's got a

[1:38:44] lot of it done. If we can get some of

[1:38:45] the stuff out of there, give him some

[1:38:48] help in making calls or being places, we

[1:38:52] all come out ahead. We've gotten more

[1:38:54] stuff out of there. And while we're

[1:38:56] doing this, all three groups can reach

[1:39:00] out and try and find somebody that can

[1:39:02] assist full-time. That would be

[1:39:04] absolutely fantastic. Someone for the

[1:39:06] next three months of full-time would not

[1:39:08] be a huge huge lift of money. It's not

[1:39:10] going to use up the whole 80,000 and we

[1:39:13] could pass it over to them or have them

[1:39:15] manage

[1:39:17] >> our efforts. It's it's a good idea. like

[1:39:20] you got the guy to come in and assess it

[1:39:22] and we thought he was going to be able

[1:39:25] to take in store and that he can't. We

[1:39:28] kind of go to a spot and we think we've

[1:39:31] got it and it falls apart. I'm with him.

[1:39:34] Let's now we start doing as much as we

[1:39:36] can and John if we can find somebody

[1:39:40] that's even better.

[1:39:41] >> We we've

[1:39:42] >> we just can't sit still. We've had three

[1:39:44] moving companies come and look and the

[1:39:47] condition of the cases. The glass on

[1:39:50] them is not um tempered glass. Um a lot

[1:39:54] of it is rickety. The the movers are

[1:39:57] petrified to move the skeletons because

[1:39:59] they think that the minute they go to

[1:40:00] lift up the skeletons, they're all going

[1:40:02] to fall apart in a pile on them. Um the

[1:40:04] skeleton cases are built into the wall

[1:40:06] of the building. So they basically have

[1:40:08] to be either unscrewed or cut off the

[1:40:10] walls. So now those skeletons can't be

[1:40:13] stored in those cases anywhere. This is

[1:40:15] way more complex. And this is what I

[1:40:17] found out talking to three different

[1:40:19] moving companies and looking at the

[1:40:21] stuff in the museum. This is not snap

[1:40:22] your fingers like we thought 5 years ago

[1:40:25] and move everything out to rebuild a new

[1:40:26] museum. Mm- It's not going to be that

[1:40:29] way.

[1:40:29] >> So it sounds like something we were

[1:40:30] talking about earlier tonight. A lot of

[1:40:32] data here, John. So the other

[1:40:34] complication is, you know, when it gets

[1:40:36] cold, things get brittle and then you

[1:40:38] start compromising the artifacts when

[1:40:41] they get cold

[1:40:42] >> and the building's been cold for a lot

[1:40:43] of years.

[1:40:45] >> It has, but when but when they're cold

[1:40:47] and then you go to move them, that's

[1:40:49] when you chip, you break things don't

[1:40:52] the molecular movement isn't that good.

[1:40:56] >> Linda.

[1:40:56] >> Yeah. I'd like to make a motion that we

[1:40:58] send the draft letter that was drafted

[1:41:01] by uh Brian.

[1:41:04] >> Yep.

[1:41:06] >> That's my motion.

[1:41:06] >> I have a motion.

[1:41:08] >> Second.

[1:41:09] >> I got a motion and a second. Thank you

[1:41:11] for doing this, Brian.

[1:41:15] » All those in favor? I

[1:41:17] >> All right, we're good.

[1:41:18] >> I got a Nope. I got a second motion. I

[1:41:21] make a motion that Brian is our

[1:41:23] representative.

[1:41:26] Second.

[1:41:28] >> Thanks. Okay. Thanks.

[1:41:29] >> I'm already knee deep. So, I'll help

[1:41:32] Brian. I will help you. I have a motion

[1:41:33] in a second for u uh for Brian to be our

[1:41:37] representative and I'll gladly help you.

[1:41:39] Um any conversation? Anybody else want

[1:41:41] to chip in?

[1:41:43] All those in favor of uh Brian being our

[1:41:45] representative? I

[1:41:47] >> I

[1:41:47] >> Okay, we're good.

[1:41:49] >> Um uh appraisal update, Brian, we

[1:41:51] received Or you want to do it or you

[1:41:53] want me to do it? What do you want to

[1:41:54] do? Well, I think I mentioned already,

[1:41:55] but it's um we received a letter from a

[1:41:58] to an email to Amy from the [snorts]

[1:42:01] um New Hampshire um

[1:42:05] preservation. No, what are they? They're

[1:42:07] um

[1:42:07] >> the appraiser.

[1:42:07] Um yeah, they um thought

[1:42:11] that they would have a three-month

[1:42:12] appraisal. It's turned into almost a

[1:42:14] four-month appraisal. They're going to

[1:42:16] take an extra three weeks and um they'll

[1:42:19] be done by November 11th.

[1:42:21] >> Mid November.

[1:42:22] >> Yeah. which is which is a good thing

[1:42:24] because as we're putting things away,

[1:42:26] we'll know what is the most valuable

[1:42:29] stuff that really needs to be cared for.

[1:42:32] >> If it if we find out that the skeletons

[1:42:34] are are incredibly valuable, then that's

[1:42:36] something that we need to focus on as as

[1:42:39] a group and get those someplace safe.

[1:42:42] >> Charitable trust update. Um if you want,

[1:42:44] I'll do that. Uh we did uh uh in late

[1:42:48] September send a letter uh four

[1:42:51] signatures on that letter uh to Nathan

[1:42:54] town council asking uh him to uh have a

[1:42:57] chat with uh the charitable trust. That

[1:42:59] conversation did take place. The

[1:43:01] charitable trust is uh talking to the

[1:43:03] attorney general as to u u as to the

[1:43:07] next steps. The letter for those of you

[1:43:09] who didn't see it, the letter said that

[1:43:11] we are asking for a sitdown with the CTU

[1:43:15] with the name leadership team of both

[1:43:18] the friends as well as the uh Libby

[1:43:20] Museum preservation team. Uh so that's

[1:43:24] about all I can tell you on that. More

[1:43:26] to come. Okay. Any other business in

[1:43:29] Libby?

[1:43:32] >> I'll make a motion to come out of the

[1:43:33] Libby museum trustees meeting. I have a

[1:43:35] motion uh to come out of the Liby

[1:43:36] trustees meeting and a second.

[1:43:40] >> Second.

[1:43:40] >> Have a second for Mr. Cynicle. All those

[1:43:42] in favor? I please.

[1:43:44] >> I.

[1:43:44] >> Okay. Next item in the agenda is

[1:43:46] >> Oh, and Paul, it's just it's the New

[1:43:47] Hampshire Antique Co-op. They're in

[1:43:49] Milford, New Hampshire. Um they're the

[1:43:52] uh probably the most prestigious uh

[1:43:55] antique um appraisal and dealer in New

[1:43:59] Hampshire and with a presence down on uh

[1:44:02] in in Boston, Massachusetts in downtown

[1:44:04] Boston.

[1:44:04] >> Thank you. Appreciate it. Uh the next

[1:44:07] item on on the agenda is uh in in our

[1:44:10] old business and this is uh Stonem Road,

[1:44:13] Mr. Rosinger. Mr. Rosinger uh asked that

[1:44:17] we not disposition his request until he

[1:44:21] got back from u his business trip or

[1:44:25] travel. Um Mr. Rosinger uh previously

[1:44:28] came up to the uh uh to the microphone

[1:44:31] and asked us three questions. Question

[1:44:34] number one is the return of his

[1:44:36] property.

[1:44:38] Um

[1:44:39] and um Claude, did I get it? Did did you

[1:44:42] also say the uh the loom because I think

[1:44:45] you I think you said you said loom as

[1:44:47] well. Okay. Uh cuz it wasn't clear in

[1:44:50] the uh when I when I watched the video.

[1:44:52] Question number two was acknowledged

[1:44:55] that uh he has the right to reinstall

[1:44:58] the posts on uh where they were

[1:45:00] originally installed. And then question

[1:45:03] number three uh was uh I'm paraphrasing

[1:45:07] plaud so if I get it wrong get about the

[1:45:09] business of getting the rural roads

[1:45:10] committee work done.

[1:45:12] >> So I think I think we've dispositioned

[1:45:14] that third one

[1:45:16] >> specific

[1:45:18] go ahead clock coming up

[1:45:26] » to be specific about the posts. I think

[1:45:28] I mentioned that we were talking about

[1:45:30] the granite posts. Mhm.

[1:45:32] >> which were half of them were

[1:45:34] historically there.

[1:45:35] >> Uh had been approved.

[1:45:38] >> Then stories were told that were not

[1:45:39] true about there not having been

[1:45:40] approved, but we'll put that aside for

[1:45:42] now.

[1:45:43] >> They were they were long-standing.

[1:45:45] >> And then when I [snorts] added some

[1:45:47] posts this year,

[1:45:48] >> they were not only in align with the

[1:45:50] historical one posts, but they were set

[1:45:52] a foot further back.

[1:45:54] >> So that was the guideline.

[1:45:56] >> Okay.

[1:45:57] >> Uh the wood posts had a different

[1:45:58] purpose. uh with any luck it has served

[1:46:01] that purpose and it's to draw attention

[1:46:05] to the fact that the irregularity

[1:46:09] of the plowing and the grading of the

[1:46:12] road and not just along my roads but

[1:46:15] throughout the rural roads needs to be

[1:46:17] addressed.

[1:46:18] >> Y and I think that was in your third uh

[1:46:21] u you kind of keyed off of that on in

[1:46:23] your third

[1:46:23] >> that's correct. I'm just saying that

[1:46:24] we're not discussing the wood posts.

[1:46:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well,

[1:46:27] >> all right. But I want them back.

[1:46:28] >> Yeah. Okay. Good.

[1:46:30] >> Thank you.

[1:46:31] Claude, for that. Um um

[1:46:33] there's another item in your board

[1:46:35] packet. Um and this is uh for just FYI,

[1:46:38] there is a uh something that I put in

[1:46:40] there for everybody.

[1:46:42] Uh we're not we're not here to to be

[1:46:45] judges. If you feel you need to be

[1:46:46] recused from this conversation, board

[1:46:48] member, you can do that. Uh that's your

[1:46:51] choice. Um we received a uh we received

[1:46:54] an email from Mr. Rosinger's attorney,

[1:46:56] Mr. Chapman dated August 13th. In that

[1:46:59] letter, Mr. Chapman uh uh submitted

[1:47:03] location plan for the install of 18

[1:47:05] granite posts on the east side of

[1:47:06] Startard aerial review of the posts

[1:47:09] spaced 50 ft apart and 12t 6 in from the

[1:47:12] center line of the road. Three

[1:47:14] photographs showing granite posts by way

[1:47:16] of background. I'm paraphrasing Claude,

[1:47:19] but this is pretty close. Uh for

[1:47:21] decades, without objection from the

[1:47:22] town, Mr. Rosener maintained the area

[1:47:24] adjacent to his residence. uh within

[1:47:26] started roads right of way. Uh he has uh

[1:47:30] recared removed brush graded loom seated

[1:47:33] mode areas on both sides. In

[1:47:36] approximately 2021, Mr. Rosinger

[1:47:39] his his attorneys note to us spoke with

[1:47:41] Scott Pike then employed by the public

[1:47:43] works department about placing six

[1:47:45] granite post within the historically

[1:47:47] established area. The post would be

[1:47:49] within the right of way uh but outside

[1:47:51] of the traveled way so as not to

[1:47:53] interfere with people driving the road.

[1:47:55] Mr. Pike approved Mr. Rosinger's plan.

[1:47:58] Together, they believed the post would

[1:48:00] better define the long existing but

[1:48:02] compromised gravel road edge and give

[1:48:04] the road a narrower appearance. Uh the

[1:48:07] expected people uh they expected people

[1:48:09] would drive the road at a slower and

[1:48:10] safer speed, causing less damage to the

[1:48:13] road and saving the town maintenance

[1:48:15] cost. Mr. Pike inspected the posts after

[1:48:18] they were installed. Again, Mr. Chapman,

[1:48:21] Mr. Rossinger's attorney. Uh on the

[1:48:24] aerial view submitted, uh three of the

[1:48:26] grain of post were immediately south of

[1:48:27] Stonem Road while there were while three

[1:48:31] were immediately north of the road.

[1:48:33] Following the placement, the town uh

[1:48:35] continued to maintain Stoddard Road,

[1:48:37] plowed it during winter and never

[1:48:38] expressed any concern about the posts.

[1:48:41] This past May, Mr. Rosinger retained a

[1:48:43] professional landscape designer and

[1:48:45] contractor to extend the line of granite

[1:48:47] post by adding 12 posts of set 50 ft

[1:48:50] apart on the east side of Stoddard Road

[1:48:53] extending the property outlined by his

[1:48:55] sister-in-law

[1:48:56] Lee Rosinger. Lee Rosinger. Thank you.

[1:49:00] Wooden posts were also placed on the

[1:49:02] west side of Stoddard Road extending

[1:49:04] onto Ms. Rosinger's property. Those

[1:49:06] posts were also set 50 feet apart at a

[1:49:09] greater distance from the traveled way.

[1:49:11] Uh

[1:49:13] then were the townplaced snowplowed

[1:49:15] stakes. The work took about two and a

[1:49:18] half weeks to complete. In the latter

[1:49:20] part of May, Mr. Rosener received two

[1:49:22] letters from the acting town manager

[1:49:23] that demanded the removal of posts. The

[1:49:25] second letter cited New Hampshire laws.

[1:49:27] One authorized the town to remove all

[1:49:29] obstructions on on any highway while the

[1:49:32] other authorized the town to remove

[1:49:33] encumbrances on the highway. On June 1,

[1:49:36] 2026, the town removed all granite and

[1:49:39] wooden posts and yards of loom.

[1:49:43] Attorney uh Chapman goes on to uh say,

[1:49:46] "I believe one might fairly question

[1:49:48] whether any of the posts were

[1:49:49] obstructing the encumbered travel way of

[1:49:51] Stoddard Road." That said, there is a

[1:49:54] 1982 opinion by the New Hampshire

[1:49:56] Attorney General that applies to Mr.

[1:49:58] Rosinger situation. In relevant part it

[1:50:01] states where the state has acquired only

[1:50:04] an easement the owner of the underlying

[1:50:05] fee. Usually the abuter retains certain

[1:50:08] rights to the reasonable use of the land

[1:50:11] italicized so long as such does not

[1:50:13] interfere with the travel rights of the

[1:50:15] public unalicized. The landowner has a

[1:50:18] limited uh right to place wood stone or

[1:50:20] other material within the rightway.

[1:50:22] Windship versus Enfield 42 New Hampshire

[1:50:25] 9726-7

[1:50:28] 1860 Chamberlain versus Enfield 43 New

[1:50:32] Hampshire 3561 1861 It's a question of

[1:50:35] fact whether the whether under the

[1:50:37] circumstances the material so placed

[1:50:39] unnecessarily obstructs free passage of

[1:50:41] the public over the over the right of

[1:50:43] way graze versus shadic 35 New Hampshire

[1:50:46] 2571 1857 office the italicized office

[1:50:50] the attorney general opinion unalicity

[1:50:52] size number 821 1581 1982

[1:50:57] WL 188209 at three emphasis added

[1:51:01] permitting Mr. Rosinger to praise 18

[1:51:03] grand a post on the east side of Started

[1:51:04] Road would enable him to make reasonable

[1:51:06] use of his land within the rightway yet

[1:51:08] in no way interfere with the travel

[1:51:10] traveling rights of the public. All

[1:51:12] right. So, let's do this uh uh uh let's

[1:51:15] do this in a threepart

[1:51:19] uh process. Um I'd like a motion u um to

[1:51:25] return Mr. Roseners's posts wood as well

[1:51:28] as granite. And I would uh I would just

[1:51:31] encourage that and I'll I guess I'll

[1:51:33] make the motion and with the

[1:51:35] understanding that if uh if they are to

[1:51:37] be returned, he will be at his home and

[1:51:40] he will allow us to go onto his property

[1:51:41] to return the posts. So I'll make that

[1:51:43] as a motion. Do I have a

[1:51:45] >> I would also like that um he signs some

[1:51:47] kind of document that we make that he's

[1:51:50] in receipt of the posts.

[1:51:52] >> I would like that added too.

[1:51:54] >> Yes. Just to make sure that we deliver

[1:51:57] 18. He says there's 18. and he signs

[1:51:59] that he's got 18 because what if all of

[1:52:01] a sudden we make a mistake and we

[1:52:03] deliver 17 but he thought he got 18 and

[1:52:05] now there's a post that's missing an

[1:52:06] action.

[1:52:07] >> I think that makes sense. I agree.

[1:52:09] >> Okay, I'll have a motion. We'll add to

[1:52:10] that.

[1:52:11] >> Could you add undamaged

[1:52:14] if they're broken?

[1:52:17] >> Yeah. If they become broken, who who who

[1:52:21] compensates for the broken?

[1:52:27] » Word members,

[1:52:29] >> if if if we took 18 and we're choosing

[1:52:32] to give 18 back, the 18 we give back

[1:52:34] should be in the same condition as the

[1:52:35] 18 we took.

[1:52:38] >> I I would prefer to say unbroken.

[1:52:42] >> Yeah,

[1:52:42] >> unbroken.

[1:52:43] >> Okay.

[1:52:44] >> All right. So, I can re write or re

[1:52:46] resch this one. [clears throat] So there

[1:52:47] I'll I'll put a motion together here

[1:52:49] that says we will return uh all the

[1:52:52] posts that we removed. 18 granite posts.

[1:52:56] Is it 18? No, it's not 18 granite. It's

[1:52:58] total posts.

[1:53:01] We will return all the posts we took.

[1:53:03] How's that? Okay. And we will return

[1:53:05] them in an unbroken state. We will

[1:53:08] return those posts provided you're home

[1:53:09] and that you sign something that says

[1:53:11] you receive them. The question then

[1:53:13] becomes the loom. And I don't know how we denominate how much loom we send

[1:53:17] back, but what do you want to do about

[1:53:18] that? Claude,

[1:53:19] >> why don't we just deal with the post

[1:53:20] first?

[1:53:21] >> Let's deal with the post first. I have a

[1:53:22] motion

[1:53:22] >> and I'll second that.

[1:53:23] >> You have a second. Okay. Conversation.

[1:53:27] >> All those in support of returning those

[1:53:29] posts in unbroken state provided Mr.

[1:53:31] Rosinger is home and signs something

[1:53:33] that says he received them.

[1:53:35] >> Say I.

[1:53:36] >> I.

[1:53:36] Okay.

[1:53:37] >> Now, about the loom. Um, I don't know

[1:53:39] how we denominate that.

[1:53:41] >> So, what So, why don't you ask Mr. to

[1:53:43] Roser to provide a receipt for the loan

[1:53:45] that was that he purchased and that way

[1:53:49] cuz we take all of it.

[1:53:52] >> Ask him

[1:53:54] >> um who spread the loom.

[1:53:56] >> I I can

[1:53:58] >> Linda

[1:53:58] >> I thought when you were here you said

[1:54:00] you didn't want the loan.

[1:54:01] >> I think that's what you said.

[1:54:02] >> You were saying oh no just forget about

[1:54:05] the LOM.

[1:54:07] >> We'll have to go back and look at that.

[1:54:08] I'm I'm sure that was the case but

[1:54:12] >> come on up Claude. I need you. I need

[1:54:13] you at the microphone. [snorts]

[1:54:20] » It was high-grade lom. It had excellent

[1:54:23] seed for that purpose. Uh about 100

[1:54:26] pounds of seed as I recall. And the lom

[1:54:29] was

[1:54:31] Now, I'm not going to do it for memory.

[1:54:33] I know that it was about $2,000 of loan.

[1:54:35] >> Uh 2,000

[1:54:36] >> $2,000 of loan.

[1:54:37] >> $2,000.

[1:54:38] >> So you have a receipt for that?

[1:54:40] >> You can. Yeah, of course. Mhm.

[1:54:43] >> for the CEO that too.

[1:54:46] >> So board members, you know, I don't know

[1:54:48] if we took all the loan, but board

[1:54:50] members, uh, we have a an ask by Mr.

[1:54:52] Rosinger to u return the equivalent of

[1:54:56] $2,000 worth of loan and see.

[1:54:58] >> Well, let let me be I'm telling you I'd

[1:55:00] like to confirm the number. It's not

[1:55:02] more than that, but uh happy to provide

[1:55:05] the receipts.

[1:55:06] >> Okay. So, how do we want to do this,

[1:55:08] Linda? Well, I guess my feeling is I

[1:55:10] understand the post and everything, but

[1:55:12] he had an opportunity to remove it prior

[1:55:15] to us coming. He knew we were going to

[1:55:16] come do it. He had two letters he

[1:55:19] received.

[1:55:20] >> I understand the value of the granite

[1:55:22] post and putting those back, but I'm

[1:55:24] having a hard time with the lom.

[1:55:26] >> Well, if I may, I'll comment that. Uh,

[1:55:30] number one, the letters, we dispute the

[1:55:33] legality of those letters

[1:55:35] >> and we and you know that we disputed it.

[1:55:37] So that's an open question today.

[1:55:40] >> The second thing is the second letter

[1:55:43] just for amusement

[1:55:46] was received certified mail on the

[1:55:48] Friday of Memorial Day weekend with the

[1:55:51] instruction that if I didn't act over

[1:55:53] the weekend,

[1:55:54] >> everything would be ripped out on the

[1:55:55] Monday, which it was.

[1:55:57] >> I don't think a letter like that stands

[1:56:00] scrutiny. Mhm.

[1:56:03] >> So, yes. And then when it came to having

[1:56:07] it all ripped out, which had been Mr.

[1:56:09] Randall's purpose, he wanted to do that,

[1:56:11] and that was obviously long planned.

[1:56:14] >> I said, "Well, at least leave the lom or

[1:56:16] use it. Use it for the work you're

[1:56:18] doing."

[1:56:20] >> No, no, we want our own.

[1:56:22] >> Fine. So, high high-grade lom far better

[1:56:26] than what was put down. was simply put

[1:56:29] in a dump truck and taken away.

[1:56:32] >> Okay. All right. So, um, what do you

[1:56:35] want to do, Bo? You want to put a motion

[1:56:36] up? I'll entertain it.

[1:56:42] » So, there is a picture of the side of

[1:56:45] the road where the grass and the lom is

[1:56:47] all there. It's all It's all growing in.

[1:56:51] And I think if you go up there now,

[1:56:54] that's it's not there anymore.

[1:56:57] So, I think he's just asking for equal

[1:57:00] compensation for I mean, that's storm

[1:57:03] water management by the looks of it.

[1:57:04] That looks like it's going to stop the

[1:57:06] water from uh carrying the the fines

[1:57:09] away on the side of the road. It's when

[1:57:11] uh when water comes, it's going to slow

[1:57:13] it down before it gets to the road. I

[1:57:14] mean, there's a lot there's a lot of

[1:57:16] benefactor to what was accomplished

[1:57:18] there.

[1:57:22] » Do I have a motion from anybody?

[1:57:29] I think somebody had a rem

[1:57:32] Dave a little louder in the mic, please.

[1:57:35] >> How about if we um

[1:57:38] ask Mr. Rosen to supply some

[1:57:42] uh billing as far as the amount of soil

[1:57:45] he was he had put down in some estimate

[1:57:49] from Steve or whoever either stay Steve

[1:57:53] uh Randall or Steve Peshy as far as how

[1:57:56] much was removed.

[1:57:59] >> I don't think there's an appetite here

[1:58:01] unless I'm wrong uh to uh uh to to

[1:58:05] discuss or vote on this motion. I think

[1:58:08] what you're suggesting is let's get a

[1:58:09] little more information from from you,

[1:58:11] Claude,

[1:58:12] >> about uh maybe receipts or whatever you

[1:58:14] have and then we can take it up at at

[1:58:16] another time.

[1:58:17] >> And I think what Dave is saying too is

[1:58:19] that um

[1:58:21] we don't know how much loom they took.

[1:58:25] We don't know if they took the whole

[1:58:26] $2,000 worth of loom. If they took more,

[1:58:30] if they took less,

[1:58:32] we don't know. Um I

[1:58:33] >> just want some parameters. Yeah,

[1:58:39] » we have the fixtures. They ripped up the

[1:58:41] roadside. It took far more

[1:58:43] >> including the roadside that was already

[1:58:45] there

[1:58:46] >> or you know I I think this comes down to

[1:58:48] more data from tell us show us some

[1:58:51] >> So I'm simply providing the receipts.

[1:58:53] >> Yeah,

[1:58:54] >> that's gone.

[1:58:55] >> Yeah. And I think that if I may suggest,

[1:58:59] I think that I've been through enough on

[1:59:02] this and you all know what happened.

[1:59:05] >> It was wrong.

[1:59:08] And what I'm asking for is moderate,

[1:59:13] >> very moderate. I've tried to be

[1:59:15] reasonable throughout this thing.

[1:59:19] >> So I would appreciate consideration of

[1:59:21] it.

[1:59:21] >> Okay.

[1:59:21] >> Thank you.

[1:59:22] It was another I appreciate

[1:59:24] that. So you you will get us some more

[1:59:27] information. Another matter which is uh

[1:59:29] there was a fine the bill in materials

[1:59:32] of $2550.

[1:59:37] Board members, what do you want to do

[1:59:38] about that?

[1:59:41] >> Was the fine paid? No,

[1:59:51] » it let me just say is this is this in

[1:59:54] court?

[1:59:55] >> Yeah,

[1:59:56] >> that's he was saying that he was had

[1:59:58] filed against the uh way he was noticed.

[2:00:03] Is that in court

[2:00:05] now? Did you get an answer on that? I

[2:00:07] thought you said that you had um

[2:00:11] >> it was a legal

[2:00:12] >> challenge and it was a legal matter the

[2:00:14] way you were uh letters you received. Is

[2:00:18] that in court now?

[2:00:19] >> At this point there's nothing before

[2:00:21] court.

[2:00:21] >> Oh, you have Okay. You haven't filed

[2:00:23] anything.

[2:00:24] >> All I can say unless the town has done

[2:00:25] something.

[2:00:26] >> No, no. I thought you were saying you

[2:00:28] had something. No, frankly. I

[2:00:29] >> Thank you. I because I couldn't remember

[2:00:31] anything. So,

[2:00:31] >> I I said we disputed it.

[2:00:33] >> You disputed? Yeah.

[2:00:34] >> Okay. What what what would be your

[2:00:36] opinion on the fine

[2:00:38] >> on?

[2:00:39] >> Yes.

[2:00:40] >> On what?

[2:00:40] >> The fine that Paul just mentioned. What

[2:00:43] would you

[2:00:43] >> I didn't see that.

[2:00:46] >> What fine?

[2:00:47] >> Where is that?

[2:00:48] >> Uh you received a fine from uh for the

[2:00:50] uh removal of posts on

[2:00:52] >> Absolutely not.

[2:00:53] >> Okay.

[2:00:54] >> I did.

[2:00:55] >> Not getting paid.

[2:00:56] >> Yeah. Okay.

[2:00:57] >> That's outrageous.

[2:00:58] >> Okay.

[2:00:59] >> They never had to be removed.

[2:01:01] >> Okay. you and that is also one of the

[2:01:04] things we have to decide.

[2:01:07] >> I haven't seen any. You've got something

[2:01:10] I don't have.

[2:01:11] >> Has our town council weighed in on any

[2:01:13] of this?

[2:01:16] I mean, have they have they said that

[2:01:19] the fine was uh

[2:01:21] >> legitimate?

[2:01:22] Not legitimate? I mean, I

[2:01:24] believe he needs to get his property

[2:01:26] back. I need I believe he needs to get

[2:01:28] his loom back. Um, I don't know who

[2:01:31] filed the fine and I assume it was our

[2:01:34] prior town our interim I haven't seen

[2:01:37] it.

[2:01:38] >> I I haven't even lodged a request for

[2:01:41] the cost of reinstallation.

[2:01:44] I don't propose to do that.

[2:01:46] >> Okay.

[2:01:47] >> So, I think a little bit of give and

[2:01:49] take would make sense.

[2:01:51] uh

[2:01:53] the ripping out of the post

[2:01:57] with essentially no notice

[2:02:01] and then to ask that they be held for

[2:02:04] ransom, which is what it was.

[2:02:06] >> Yeah.

[2:02:07] >> Is not a reasonable and decent thing to

[2:02:09] do. [clears throat]

[2:02:10] >> Should never have happened.

[2:02:12] >> I'm not going to u if you want me. Go

[2:02:15] ahead, Claude. Sorry.

[2:02:16] >> No, I I don't I tried to make this

[2:02:18] short. No, I'm not going to uh I don't

[2:02:21] think I'm going to press the question at

[2:02:23] this time because now there's a question

[2:02:24] of legality

[2:02:27] um about u some matters here.

[2:02:30] >> What's that?

[2:02:32] >> I was just responding to what Mr.

[2:02:33] Rosener said. Legality is an issue. He's

[2:02:36] got a legality of what we're doing is an

[2:02:38] issue. Okay. But there is a third

[2:02:41] question and uh we'll put it on the on

[2:02:43] the table and that is

[2:02:46] acknowledging that Mr. Rosinger has the

[2:02:48] right

[2:02:51] to reinstall the posts in that property

[2:02:53] location. Is that what you're

[2:02:54] >> I'm sorry.

[2:02:55] >> Yeah, I'm sorry, Claude. You You're When

[2:02:57] you came to the microphone last time,

[2:02:59] you said you want us to acknowledge that

[2:03:02] you have the right to reinstall those

[2:03:04] post

[2:03:04] >> and we were speaking about the granite

[2:03:05] post on the east side of the road.

[2:03:07] >> That's right.

[2:03:08] >> Okay. Board members,

[2:03:11] >> I I got to go back. Did we get an

[2:03:13] opinion from town attorney whether he

[2:03:16] has a right and we've got something from

[2:03:18] his lawyer? It's going back to uh 1860.

[2:03:24] Um and so if we got a legal point here,

[2:03:28] we should know the answer.

[2:03:30] >> And I don't have any information on

[2:03:33] that.

[2:03:34] >> I don't have a document from anybody in

[2:03:37] the town giving him permission to put

[2:03:39] them there, you know. Um, and I think

[2:03:43] the question is, does he have a right to

[2:03:45] put them there? And and we don't have an

[2:03:47] opinion on that, and I'm not a lawyer.

[2:03:50] >> Well, it seems to me, if I may make the

[2:03:53] suggestion, this can be resolved easily

[2:03:55] or the hard way. I propose easily for

[2:03:59] both parties.

[2:04:01] Now, the right,

[2:04:04] we already have established that six of

[2:04:06] the posts were approved by Scott Pike.

[2:04:09] >> I have no document. And

[2:04:13] no, that won't do because they stood

[2:04:16] there for nearly a decade. Nobody said a

[2:04:19] word. And by the way, when I spoke to

[2:04:22] Scott Pike, when Mr. Muio pretended that

[2:04:25] he had spoken to Pike and Pike disavowed

[2:04:28] having been with me when the posts were

[2:04:30] placed. That wasn't true. Mr. Pike told

[2:04:34] me clearly, "No, I was there with you."

[2:04:37] >> I think clearly we need at least

[2:04:39] opinion. think that to take it if we

[2:04:42] start to go back to lawyers, we spend

[2:04:44] money on your side, we're going to end

[2:04:46] up spending money on my side and what do

[2:04:49] we really accomplish? Isn't there an

[2:04:51] issue here of common sense and common

[2:04:53] decency that should enter into this

[2:04:55] discussion? Those posts were there and

[2:04:58] then the ones we added were added in the

[2:05:00] same line but further from the center

[2:05:03] line of the road than the original six.

[2:05:06] I did that as a specific instruction to

[2:05:09] prevent exactly what arose.

[2:05:13] >> Why was all this done? You know why it

[2:05:15] was done. I know why it was done. It was

[2:05:18] done by an angry public works director

[2:05:20] who wanted to show his authority over

[2:05:22] us.

[2:05:24] >> Okay,

[2:05:24] >> let's be honest about that.

[2:05:26] >> All right. So, Mr. Mr. Rosinger, I I

[2:05:28] respect your comment about starting with

[2:05:30] lawyers, but what I have in my

[2:05:31] possession is comments from your lawyer.

[2:05:36] >> But but we can easily,

[2:05:38] >> right?

[2:05:38] >> I would prefer to desist.

[2:05:42] If you desist, I desist.

[2:05:45] >> It's what I suggested in August when I

[2:05:47] met. Mhm.

[2:05:49] >> The thing that most vexed me was that

[2:05:52] repeated offers to meet

[2:05:55] just to resolve the matter

[2:05:58] >> were rejected out of hand.

[2:06:01] >> Why would that have been?

[2:06:02] >> Because when lawyers get involved, we

[2:06:04] don't.

[2:06:05] >> No, that's not a good answer because we

[2:06:07] can overrule our lawyers at any moment.

[2:06:09] We can step in and say, "Let's fix it."

[2:06:11] >> Yeah. Linda,

[2:06:13] >> and I think we have a bigger question

[2:06:15] and not just your spot, but on any

[2:06:18] rightway, dirt road. What is the town's

[2:06:23] rightway? And is it right for the town

[2:06:26] to let people put things in that

[2:06:28] rightway? And that's you over here, over

[2:06:32] there, anywhere else. And that's what

[2:06:34] this is is um refer

[2:06:37] >> referring to I I would like to have an

[2:06:41] town attorney's opinion on that. Not to

[2:06:44] go after you, but to get a true

[2:06:46] understanding cuz do you owe to the

[2:06:50] middle section of the road or not?

[2:06:52] >> And I I want that. That's what I'm

[2:06:54] looking for. I'm not

[2:06:55] >> fine. If you're going if you're looking

[2:06:57] for it looking forward, I can't gain

[2:07:00] that.

[2:07:01] >> But I can tell you this. If you're going

[2:07:03] to go after all the things in town that

[2:07:08] are located at the same centerline

[2:07:10] distances and in the right of way as you

[2:07:12] claimed mine were,

[2:07:14] >> you've got hundreds of items to go

[2:07:17] after. You can start on Sul Road, by the

[2:07:18] way. There are stone walls and all kinds

[2:07:20] of things.

[2:07:20] >> Yeah. I I still want to get that

[2:07:23] understanding from the attorney. That's

[2:07:25] what I'm asking for. I'm not asking to

[2:07:28] >> My issue shouldn't be paused for that.

[2:07:30] I'd like to get these back in before the

[2:07:32] frost comes.

[2:07:34] >> I'm not.

[2:07:34] >> By the way, one one thing just the South

[2:07:36] Wolf Bro Cemetery

[2:07:39] has granite posts of the same type.

[2:07:41] They're nearer the center line

[2:07:43] >> and that's not a class five road. It's a

[2:07:45] class four, I think.

[2:07:48] >> I still

[2:07:50] I understand. I'm simply telling you

[2:07:51] that the the

[2:07:55] I'm trying to

[2:07:58] you have some experience with lawyers. I

[2:08:00] have some experience with lawyers.

[2:08:01] >> They have their use utility.

[2:08:04] >> You're married to one.

[2:08:05] >> I may think more utility than you do.

[2:08:08] >> So, it's just there's a time if we want

[2:08:11] to resolve things, there's a time to

[2:08:13] resolve it. Shake hands and be done

[2:08:16] with.

[2:08:17] >> That's that time.

[2:08:20] now what you do for the future and so

[2:08:22] forth. I'm simply pointing out that if

[2:08:24] you apply those rules, good luck to you

[2:08:27] because almost every road in town has

[2:08:29] similar things.

[2:08:30] >> I still would like an understanding of

[2:08:32] what that and the law and what it says.

[2:08:34] >> However, what it does not say I can give

[2:08:37] you a it does not say that the town can

[2:08:39] clear the right of way. The right of way

[2:08:42] is a is a three rods wide and it allows

[2:08:45] the town to pass a roadway through that.

[2:08:47] It does not allow the town to build a

[2:08:50] three rod wide road.

[2:08:52] >> So, this isn't meant to be a trick

[2:08:54] question.

[2:08:54] >> Yeah.

[2:08:54] >> But here it comes, right? It's not meant

[2:08:56] to be a trick question.

[2:08:58] >> You've told me us

[2:09:00] >> Yeah.

[2:09:00] >> You know roads.

[2:09:01] >> I do.

[2:09:02] >> And you told us right now you know how

[2:09:04] roads get laid out.

[2:09:05] >> Yeah.

[2:09:06] >> And you just told us that you went to a

[2:09:08] manager of the public works department

[2:09:10] and got permission.

[2:09:12] >> That I went to the manager of

[2:09:14] >> Yeah. went to Scott Pike, a manager in

[2:09:15] the public works department, to get

[2:09:16] permission to lay out your road.

[2:09:19] >> Selectman lay out roads.

[2:09:22] >> Well, would as a as a citizen,

[2:09:27] >> am I

[2:09:29] uh supposed to know the entire procedure

[2:09:32] of how the town approves things? If you go to a manager in the town,

[2:09:37] >> that manager should know what that

[2:09:39] procedure is. Yeah.

[2:09:40] >> So, he either knows that he is

[2:09:42] authorized to do that or he knows he's

[2:09:45] not. And he would say so, wouldn't he?

[2:09:47] >> But if he says he is,

[2:09:50] >> you have a reasonable right to take that

[2:09:52] as true. And Mr. Pike, by the way, I

[2:09:55] think is an honorable man.

[2:09:57] >> I think he is too.

[2:09:58] >> Always found him to be that. So, if he

[2:10:00] did that and if he said he did that,

[2:10:02] >> I don't know how you can claim that it

[2:10:04] wasn't approved or authorized. and then

[2:10:07] that it stood there for nearly a decade

[2:10:09] without anybody saying a word.

[2:10:12] >> Okay, board members, what do you want to

[2:10:14] do?

[2:10:14] >> I have a question,

[2:10:15] >> John.

[2:10:16] >> So, Linda, should shouldn't the town

[2:10:19] have had an understanding first before

[2:10:21] they singled out one citizen?

[2:10:24] >> I I I I'm

[2:10:27] No, you're trying to get into debate

[2:10:28] with me. What I'm saying is I would like

[2:10:31] an understanding of that and when I get

[2:10:35] attorney's opinion on exactly what you

[2:10:38] do you own from the middle of the road

[2:10:41] what is it do you want does the person

[2:10:43] uh own the underlying land that's one

[2:10:46] way how is the road accepted what are

[2:10:48] the different ways so I can get get do

[2:10:51] some thinking about this

[2:10:54] that's what I'm looking for

[2:10:57] >> what I'm referring to is there is a

[2:11:00] stone wall down on S road at 352 that's

[2:11:03] built 2 ft from the edge of the road.

[2:11:06] There's post down that railroad a that

[2:11:08] are put in by the town that are like 10

[2:11:11] in from the road. I

[2:11:12] >> I'm looking at

[2:11:13] >> this lom at Brewster Academy that was

[2:11:15] just put down next to Esbrook Road.

[2:11:18] >> I'm looking at trying to get a handle on

[2:11:21] exactly what is the wall. That's what

[2:11:24] I'm trying to do. And you're pointing

[2:11:26] these different things out. Maybe we do.

[2:11:29] I don't know how the law reads about who

[2:11:33] owns to where.

[2:11:35] >> Some things [snorts] I've read said you

[2:11:36] own to the middle of the road and

[2:11:39] >> what rights do you have? I I think

[2:11:41] there's enough question here that we

[2:11:43] should get a clear understanding.

[2:11:45] >> So

[2:11:45] >> that's what I'm looking for.

[2:11:46] >> So if if you get a clear understanding,

[2:11:49] will you go to all those places

[2:11:51] throughout the town, pick them all up?

[2:11:54] I want to understand and then I'll think

[2:11:56] about the different areas and try to

[2:11:58] make a decision

[2:12:00] >> and we've got one here.

[2:12:01] >> Okay.

[2:12:02] >> All right.

[2:12:02] >> Just

[2:12:03] >> and I live on a dirt road and there are

[2:12:04] things on our dirt road and there are

[2:12:06] other dirt roads that have it.

[2:12:07] >> I know I went down your dirt road today.

[2:12:09] >> Okay. So there you need to take a look

[2:12:12] at what's going on.

[2:12:15] >> So

[2:12:15] >> and I want to understand the law.

[2:12:17] >> So here here's at least my opinion.

[2:12:19] Here's where I come out on it. And this

[2:12:20] is a very lawyerly document.

[2:12:23] my opinion written by your lawyer.

[2:12:27] That's a fact. States case law. That's a

[2:12:30] fact.

[2:12:33] You're disputing

[2:12:35] uh whether we should or should not uh

[2:12:37] allow you to put the post back. I

[2:12:40] believe that's a fact. We'll get advice

[2:12:42] of our lawyer and we'll get back to you.

[2:12:46] That's about as best as I would

[2:12:48] recommend us to do. I would like us to

[2:12:50] stop bouncing between lawyers.

[2:12:52] >> Yeah, I would too

[2:12:53] >> because there's no need.

[2:12:54] >> It gets expensive.

[2:12:57] >> And I don't understand.

[2:12:58] >> And it takes a lot of time.

[2:13:00] >> It does. It does all of that. And you

[2:13:02] may not even get an opinion that's

[2:13:03] valid, by the way.

[2:13:04] >> Well, then then you know, but then but

[2:13:06] once that happens though, respectfully,

[2:13:08] Claus, then we end up in court again,

[2:13:09] then you can go all the way up the uh

[2:13:11] the chain of command on the court

[2:13:13] system, and if you don't like that

[2:13:14] answer, I can't offer you anything else.

[2:13:16] Don't we have an easy, simple, common

[2:13:18] sense solution in front of us right now?

[2:13:21] >> I I offered you my opinion

[2:13:23] >> that is you've written a letter through

[2:13:25] your lawyer saying

[2:13:26] >> but I've already told you that that can

[2:13:28] be withdrawn by my say so.

[2:13:30] >> Yeah, I've offered my opinion.

[2:13:33] >> Board members, what do you want to do?

[2:13:34] >> So, how does how does an individual that

[2:13:38] has a dispute

[2:13:40] not have to go to an attorney to get an

[2:13:43] opinion? That's usually what the status

[2:13:46] quo is, isn't it, Paul?

[2:13:49] [snorts]

[2:13:49] >> I'm not sure I even understand your

[2:13:50] question, John.

[2:13:52] >> If somebody has a dispute, they go and

[2:13:55] get a legal opinion so that they can

[2:13:57] prove their case. Isn't that normally

[2:13:59] what happens?

[2:14:00] >> Right. And he's done that.

[2:14:02] >> So, why didn't we have to get one on our

[2:14:05] >> Why didn't Why didn't we already get it?

[2:14:07] >> I was just waiting to have this meeting.

[2:14:10] >> Well, Paul, if I may.

[2:14:12] >> Yes, sir. Consider that what was done without court order, which it

[2:14:18] would have required,

[2:14:21] >> the ripping out of my property, and it

[2:14:23] was done without due process.

[2:14:26] >> So, there's a whole case there.

[2:14:27] >> Yeah.

[2:14:28] >> But I don't want to make that case. I

[2:14:30] can do it, but I I don't want to.

[2:14:31] >> No, I I understand.

[2:14:32] >> So, why don't we

[2:14:34] >> I'm making you an offer.

[2:14:36] >> Yeah.

[2:14:36] >> The offer is to set aside the

[2:14:39] reinstallation cost. I'll take that on

[2:14:41] myself.

[2:14:43] I'm not going to make a claim of

[2:14:44] damages.

[2:14:45] >> Yeah.

[2:14:45] >> I'm not going to make a further claim

[2:14:47] against the town for misbehavior and

[2:14:49] whatever.

[2:14:50] >> Not going to do all that.

[2:14:52] >> I live in this town.

[2:14:53] >> Yeah.

[2:14:53] >> I care about this town.

[2:14:56] >> So, I'm offering you a solution. I don't

[2:15:00] understand why we would need to now that

[2:15:02] you, Mrs. Murray, would like to have an

[2:15:04] opinion going forward and so forth.

[2:15:07] That's fine. That's perfectly sensible.

[2:15:10] and then you can take stock of whatever

[2:15:12] the situation is all over town and make

[2:15:14] of it what you want.

[2:15:18] But is this too much to ask after what

[2:15:20] I've been through?

[2:15:22] >> I don't think so.

[2:15:22] >> Okay.

[2:15:23] >> Thank you.

[2:15:23] for that. Claude board

[2:15:25] members, what do you want to do?

[2:15:28] >> I think we need more information.

[2:15:32] >> I don't advice to council.

[2:15:33] >> Does Nathan have this letter? Does

[2:15:35] anybody know?

[2:15:36] >> I believe he does.

[2:15:39] I'll check with uh we can check with

[2:15:40] Barry.

[2:15:42] >> Barry and I would like a copy.

[2:15:44] >> It would have come in and gone to Barry

[2:15:46] because it was dated 13 August. Oh,

[2:15:48] >> okay.

[2:15:48] Okay.

[2:15:50] >> Like a copy of the materials list he has

[2:15:53] there too? Yep.

[2:15:53] >> That we didn't get?

[2:15:54] >> Yep.

[2:15:55] >> Oh, that this list. Yes, we need that,

[2:15:57] too.

[2:15:58] >> You want a copy of the uh of the fine

[2:16:00] that uh was there? Sure. No problem.

[2:16:03] >> So, board members, uh uh do you want to

[2:16:05] seek advice of counsel? Can we ask Jim

[2:16:07] what he thinks?

[2:16:09] >> Sure.

[2:16:11] >> I think it's quite reasonable to get the

[2:16:14] um town attorney's opinion.

[2:16:19] >> Okay. Do I need a motion for this or we

[2:16:21] just going to do it?

[2:16:23] >> I think that's where I I don't think we

[2:16:25] need a motion. I think we have a

[2:16:26] consensus of the board. Is there anybody

[2:16:28] who does not want to go

[2:16:30] >> get town council's opinion on this?

[2:16:33] >> Any dissension?

[2:16:34] >> Fine. We'll go for advice of council.

[2:16:37] Thank you. Okay,

[2:16:40] >> Claude, thank you for your forbearance.

[2:16:41] U we are going to take the initiative to

[2:16:44] get the post back to you. Um

[2:16:48] and you're going to get us a uh some

[2:16:49] information about the loom and the

[2:16:51] seating. So you received a bill from

[2:16:54] somebody, right? So we'll get that we'll

[2:16:56] get that into the record. Okay.

[2:17:00] to to be clear. Uh I will deliver to you

[2:17:03] receipts.

[2:17:04] >> I'm sorry. Yes, you'll deliver receipts.

[2:17:06] Yes.

[2:17:07] >> And is that all you expect from me?

[2:17:09] >> I think so. I think Yeah. Receipts.

[2:17:11] >> All right. I shall do that.

[2:17:13] >> And and you're and I'm not trying to put

[2:17:15] words in your mouth, but I think I heard

[2:17:16] you say the reinstallation of the loom

[2:17:19] and all of that. We're not going to be

[2:17:22] talking about that. Or are we?

[2:17:22] >> We're not talking about that.

[2:17:23] >> We're not going to talk about that. No.

[2:17:24] >> So, you just want you just we just want

[2:17:26] from you. Unless you guys tell me I'm

[2:17:28] wrong. You just we just want from you

[2:17:29] what you bought or what you were sold by

[2:17:32] somebody and you'll have a receipt.

[2:17:34] >> Correct.

[2:17:34] >> Okay.

[2:17:35] >> And and I think he wants his fine

[2:17:37] expuned.

[2:17:40] » Uh that's when we started talking about

[2:17:42] legalities.

[2:17:44] So we'll get the advice of council on

[2:17:45] that.

[2:17:47] >> On what?

[2:17:48] >> The fine.

[2:17:50] >> No, that's

[2:17:51] >> You said it was a non-starter, right?

[2:17:53] >> It's a non-starter.

[2:17:53] >> So you said it was a non-starter.

[2:17:54] >> It's a non-starter. It's an invention

[2:17:56] and you know why it was done. It's It's

[2:17:58] a pure invention. It was vindictive. It

[2:18:00] was vengeance.

[2:18:02] >> And

[2:18:03] >> I'm not going to have it on.

[2:18:04] >> I got it. I appreciate that.

[2:18:07] >> Thank you.

[2:18:07] sir.

[2:18:08] >> So So do we have I have a I have a

[2:18:11] question about the fine. Do do we have a

[2:18:13] policy of how a fine is imposed or how

[2:18:18] what the criteria and how we go about

[2:18:20] finding somebody?

[2:18:22] >> I believe we do.

[2:18:24] >> Okay.

[2:18:28] Okay. Next item on the agenda is

[2:18:31] the Sool Road speed limit revision

[2:18:34] request.

[2:18:36] Uh so the uh residents of Sul Road uh

[2:18:39] requested a permanent reduction in the

[2:18:42] speed limit.

[2:18:43] Uh the u uh the police department has

[2:18:46] been asked to um uh provide us with uh

[2:18:49] data about that. Uh captain, if you

[2:18:53] wouldn't mind coming up and giving us a

[2:18:54] short precise on this. The headline is

[2:18:59] that u there is a recommendation from

[2:19:01] the police department, but it's going to

[2:19:03] require one public hearing because it's

[2:19:05] a change in ordinance. Okay, captain.

[2:19:08] >> Thank you. So, um we did the soul road

[2:19:11] traffic study which uh took in effect of

[2:19:15] the radar traffic that we do have and

[2:19:18] the characteristics of the roadway. Um,

[2:19:21] from that we did it from May 17th to the

[2:19:24] September 22nd and we had 134,000

[2:19:28] vehicles. 2534

[2:19:31] >> Captain A little bit louder.

[2:19:33] >> Oh, sorry about that.

[2:19:36] >> 134 253 was the amount of vehicles that

[2:19:40] came by the uh radar to show the data

[2:19:43] and the average speed that was through

[2:19:46] there was 24.5 miles an hour. uh the 50

[2:19:50] percentile was 25.4 4 while the 85

[2:19:53] percentile was 30.5 miles an hour. You

[2:19:57] see all that data in there and basically

[2:20:00] from that finding it shows that we

[2:20:03] really don't have a speed problem on um

[2:20:06] SU road but we took the characteristics

[2:20:09] from the roadway too which has a lot of

[2:20:11] curves as points. It's a very

[2:20:13] residential area, a lot of hills and

[2:20:15] slopes. And through the conclusion of

[2:20:18] that, the study at those speeds when

[2:20:21] that data is considered together with

[2:20:23] the heavy residential nature of the

[2:20:25] roadway, the residential ass access

[2:20:28] points, the curves,

[2:20:31] um the intermittent speed uh

[2:20:34] straightaways where the vehicles then um

[2:20:37] increase speeds before they hit the

[2:20:39] curves. Uh the department finds that the

[2:20:41] 25 mph speed is appropriate posted speed

[2:20:44] for the school road and recommends

[2:20:46] reducing the ex existing speed limit

[2:20:49] from 30 to 25.

[2:20:51] >> So the headline here is is a

[2:20:52] recommendation to reduce the speed from

[2:20:54] 30 to 25 albeit that the current

[2:20:58] measured speed is 24.5

[2:21:00] on average.

[2:21:02] >> Yeah.

[2:21:02] >> But it's a volume issue. 134,000

[2:21:04] vehicles

[2:21:06] >> going up and down the road

[2:21:07] >> months. Yes.

[2:21:08] >> Okay. This is a good amount. So folks,

[2:21:10] this board won't vote on this tonight.

[2:21:13] >> We will uh we will have one public

[2:21:14] hearing because it's an ordinance

[2:21:15] change. Following that, uh we will

[2:21:18] either vote to adopt or not. Okay. So,

[2:21:21] I've been thinking about this quite a

[2:21:23] bit

[2:21:25] um for the last few weeks and I actually

[2:21:29] drove the road quite a bit and I walked

[2:21:31] the road a couple of times and

[2:21:36] I'm wondering if we put 25 mph signs at

[2:21:40] pinch points at points where the road is

[2:21:44] going into a sharp bend

[2:21:47] where it's hilly and you have poor

[2:21:49] visibility or things like that. Would

[2:21:52] that

[2:21:54] help more than just having a sign at one

[2:21:57] end and the other end that says go 25, cuz people are going to go 34

[2:22:05] miles an hour and a 25 anyways.

[2:22:07] Everybody goes 8 n over and then when

[2:22:09] they the only reason the average speed

[2:22:11] of this becomes slower is because

[2:22:13] there's places like you said where it's

[2:22:15] zigzaggy and it's hilly and you have to

[2:22:16] go slower. So, I I just don't know if if

[2:22:20] that would help as much or more or if it

[2:22:23] needs to be marked in multiple locations

[2:22:27] um going down. I don't know because I

[2:22:29] saw the same thing that Paul saw and and

[2:22:32] the 80 81 percentile of people are are

[2:22:37] already going the speed limit.

[2:22:39] >> So, we already went through this with

[2:22:40] South Main Street because South Main

[2:22:42] Street was 354 3540. It gets a little

[2:22:46] herky jerky.

[2:22:47] >> Back to 35.

[2:22:48] >> Yep.

[2:22:49] >> We worked with the state. We put it all

[2:22:51] 35.

[2:22:51] >> Correct.

[2:22:52] >> It's easy to go with one speed.

[2:22:53] >> Yep.

[2:22:54] >> Then go back and forth.

[2:22:55] >> You know, are there I can't remember if

[2:22:56] I saw signs that said slow corner. Are

[2:22:59] there signs like that on the road?

[2:23:01] >> On Soul Road?

[2:23:02] >> Yeah.

[2:23:03] >> I don't believe so.

[2:23:05] >> Because that would help too to let

[2:23:07] people know when there's a corner

[2:23:08] coming, slow yourself down, go around

[2:23:11] the corner safely. I mean, I don't know.

[2:23:13] I don't I mean moving we just got a um a

[2:23:18] letter from DOT about Whitneck Road

[2:23:22] >> and um they're they're having the same

[2:23:25] thing. They want to work on a turnoff

[2:23:28] and on lane on Whitneck Road and they're

[2:23:30] finding out the DOT is saying that

[2:23:32] there's there's not as much of an issue

[2:23:33] there and if you change the speed limit

[2:23:35] there that the speed is actually not

[2:23:38] going to change. But that strip is

[2:23:40] similar than coming down because you

[2:23:43] come off and it's 55 then it's 40

[2:23:47] >> and then it comes to 30 and then that

[2:23:50] wit neck is in between that 30 and 40

[2:23:53] and what happens is they're they know

[2:23:55] they're coming up to the 40 and a lot of

[2:23:57] people start coming up the hill fast. So

[2:24:00] that does have that multiple seed

[2:24:02] problem similar to what happened here

[2:24:04] opposed to one

[2:24:05] >> but they found out that the majority of

[2:24:06] people going by Whiteneck Road are going

[2:24:08] the speed limit. That's what the that's

[2:24:10] what their test said.

[2:24:12] >> So Mr. Thirstston

[2:24:14] >> so I'm more interested in the volume in

[2:24:18] the segments of the road. Is there any

[2:24:21] way to segment the road so that you can

[2:24:24] tell where all the vehicle traffic

[2:24:27] originates from?

[2:24:29] >> [snorts]

[2:24:29] >> Therefore, you can say, okay, the second

[2:24:32] half of the road doesn't uh have the

[2:24:35] traffic volume, but a certain section of

[2:24:39] the road has more traffic volume.

[2:24:42] >> We can move the

[2:24:44] >> radar sign that actually is trans I mean

[2:24:48] that has some wheels and we can

[2:24:51] >> to a different area.

[2:24:52] >> So, say you moved it past Good Hugh and

[2:24:55] Hawkins.

[2:24:56] >> Yep. and had a reading there

[2:25:00] so that you could see all the traffic

[2:25:02] that's beyond Good Hugh and Hawkins that

[2:25:05] comes through and then you could have

[2:25:08] another one uh by Point Sul Road that

[2:25:13] shows you all the traffic that comes

[2:25:17] from the middle part of the road. So you

[2:25:20] basically could say, okay, this traffic

[2:25:22] comes to here and then this traffic

[2:25:25] originates from this point on.

[2:25:27] >> Yeah, we can do anything. It just takes

[2:25:28] a little time because we got to move

[2:25:30] around and get the study and get the

[2:25:31] data.

[2:25:32] >> You're basically dividing the road in

[2:25:34] half.

[2:25:34] >> So are you trying you would change the

[2:25:37] speed because the volume you just are

[2:25:39] interested?

[2:25:39] >> I'm just interested in the volume from the from the back half to the front

[2:25:44] half.

[2:25:44] >> Okay, I got you. And if you went past

[2:25:46] the good Hugh and Hawkins because again

[2:25:49] you get a lot of voters.

[2:25:50] >> Well, that's what I was trying to figure

[2:25:51] out.

[2:25:52] >> So basically once you get past that

[2:25:54] point you could say okay this is the

[2:25:56] this is residential traffic and then you

[2:25:58] could then once you come to Point Sool

[2:26:02] Road you could say okay this is a lot of

[2:26:06] other traffic.

[2:26:07] >> It just was train.

[2:26:08] >> Yeah. So I um I vaguely remember

[2:26:13] the conversation uh that we had with New

[2:26:16] Hampshire DOT about speed coming in from

[2:26:19] the high school and then down, you know,

[2:26:21] down towards um

[2:26:25] downtown and the up and down of the

[2:26:27] speed gets gets a little goofy from a

[2:26:30] enforcement point of view and it's a

[2:26:32] confusion for the driver point of view

[2:26:34] and I I remember I remember that when we

[2:26:37] started the road

[2:26:39] project,

[2:26:40] >> but I think it was in response to a

[2:26:43] concern at the golf course.

[2:26:44] >> It was

[2:26:45] >> to get the speed down and that's where

[2:26:47] it came from.

[2:26:47] >> It was Sebastian's concern. No, it was concern of uh folks trying to

[2:26:52] come across the you know come across the

[2:26:55] uh uh that um I'm kind of with

[2:26:59] somebody here that says I I I I think

[2:27:02] the speed at SU if you were up and down

[2:27:05] you know in this segment you can do 30

[2:27:06] and this 25 I think that just uh creates

[2:27:09] my personal opinion but people can talk

[2:27:11] about it at the public hearing uh

[2:27:13] confusion as it relates to the volume

[2:27:16] question.

[2:27:18] um

[2:27:22] the planning board or the zoning board

[2:27:26] um had a I don't know if they had data

[2:27:28] on this but uh the boatyard moves a lot

[2:27:32] of boats down to uh the u repair shop

[2:27:37] which is located on Sool Road and they

[2:27:41] want to come back and take another bite

[2:27:43] on the apple and try to say maybe we

[2:27:46] should not repair the boats down there.

[2:27:48] We should repair the boats up on filter

[2:27:51] bed. And I think what's going to happen,

[2:27:53] John, is you're going to see something

[2:27:54] coming in from them about traffic

[2:27:56] volumes, how many trips per day. I don't

[2:27:59] think that's going to answer your total

[2:28:00] question, but that segment of the road

[2:28:02] coming in from Main Street down to the

[2:28:04] boatyard probably is going to get some

[2:28:06] uh some data on it.

[2:28:09] >> Again, I I kind of look at this and I

[2:28:10] say it's you it's a you're 24.5 on

[2:28:14] average. Some people are going a little

[2:28:16] faster. Some people are going a lot of

[2:28:17] slower. I see no harm, no foul. Personal

[2:28:20] opinion on just taking this thing to 25

[2:28:22] and calling it a day.

[2:28:23] >> Okay.

[2:28:23] >> That's my personal opinion. All right,

[2:28:25] John.

[2:28:26] >> So, it doesn't doesn't hurt if you have

[2:28:29] matching data points of the volume.

[2:28:32] >> So, if he says it doesn't

[2:28:34] >> it's not a it's not a big

[2:28:36] >> the the only thing is we're coming into

[2:28:37] the winter months. So,

[2:28:38] >> little makes it a little challenging.

[2:28:40] >> Little bit louder. Uh we're coming into

[2:28:42] the winter months, so it just makes it a

[2:28:44] little challenging for us.

[2:28:46] >> I I would I would agree with that. And

[2:28:48] there probably less traffic going to

[2:28:50] >> Well, not even that. It's just

[2:28:51] eventually snow's coming.

[2:28:53] >> We pull in the radars,

[2:28:54] >> right? So

[2:28:55] >> you pull the radars out of the road.

[2:28:57] >> So if so, if John wants to know how many

[2:29:00] um vehicles are coming out of um Good

[2:29:03] Hugh Hawkins,

[2:29:04] >> Well, that's not what I'm And an easy

[2:29:06] way to do it is to put the sign

[2:29:10] 150 ft

[2:29:11] >> on one side of their exit

[2:29:14] >> and do it for

[2:29:17] all of July and then put it 150 ft on

[2:29:20] the other side of their exit out of

[2:29:22] their driveway and do it for the month

[2:29:25] of August. And then you're going to see

[2:29:29] which which

[2:29:30] >> a lot of this data

[2:29:31] >> but the difference is you can just

[2:29:32] subtract then and you're going to have a number.

[2:29:35] >> A lot of this data is south of it closer

[2:29:37] towards South Main Street. Yeah.

[2:29:39] >> That's where this

[2:29:40] >> because that's what John's looking for.

[2:29:41] >> You want to get the other side.

[2:29:42] >> That's a pretty busy.

[2:29:43] >> We can move the radar there and we can

[2:29:46] get this done next year.

[2:29:47] >> Okay.

[2:29:47] >> Yeah.

[2:29:48] >> John John's looking to see how many how

[2:29:50] many cars come out of Goodwill and go

[2:29:52] down.

[2:29:52] >> No, he's not. He's just looking at the

[2:29:53] volume in the segments. That's my

[2:29:55] opinion. Now, unless we're going to re

[2:29:57] recap the same things over and over

[2:29:59] again, which I'm not being mean here,

[2:30:01] but I want to

[2:30:03] >> I want to go home and watch something on

[2:30:05] TV.

[2:30:06] >> Um, board members, can I get a motion to

[2:30:09] call a public hearing on this?

[2:30:11] >> So moved.

[2:30:12] >> I'll second.

[2:30:12] >> I have a motion in a second to call a

[2:30:14] public hearing, and we can do that on

[2:30:15] the 21st,

[2:30:17] which gives us adequate time to notice

[2:30:19] it. Right.

[2:30:22] A motion on the public hearing to move

[2:30:24] the speed limit from 30 to 25.

[2:30:26] >> That's correct. Correct. We'll we'll add

[2:30:27] that to the motion, John. Thank you. To

[2:30:29] move the speed limit 30 to 25 subject to

[2:30:32] the public hearing because we're going

[2:30:33] to have to revote it when it's done. Um

[2:30:36] and I think we only need one. If we need

[2:30:37] two, then we'll let you know. But I

[2:30:39] think it's only one for an ordinance.

[2:30:40] >> I believe it's only one for an

[2:30:41] ordinance. But

[2:30:42] >> we'll do that. Check.

[2:30:43] >> We'll do that on the 21st.

[2:30:46] I have a motion and a second to uh have

[2:30:49] a public hearing to discuss the uh the

[2:30:52] movement of uh the speed from uh 30 to

[2:30:54] 25 on the on the length of SU road.

[2:30:57] >> All those in favor? I please. I

[2:30:59] >> All right, we're good to go. And does

[2:31:01] anyone have an objection if uh we

[2:31:02] provide a copy of this to the applicant

[2:31:04] copy of the police department report?

[2:31:06] >> No, we should. It's a public document.

[2:31:08] Anybody should have

[2:31:09] >> u to you folks. You can have my copy at

[2:31:12] the end of the meeting. Thank you for

[2:31:13] that.

[2:31:14] >> Okay. And I'll look at that for that.

[2:31:17] >> What? What? What? Oh yeah.

[2:31:20] >> You got to come up to the microphone.

[2:31:22] >> And I hope everybody sign.

[2:31:23] >> We're being a little loose tonight with

[2:31:24] that. Come on up.

[2:31:25] >> If anybody didn't sign in, please sign

[2:31:27] in. It helps our favor.

[2:31:30] >> There was a pencil up here, but I

[2:31:32] brought

[2:31:32] >> How are you, sir? [laughter]

[2:31:33] >> I thought there was

[2:31:34] >> brought his own pencil. Look at that.

[2:31:35] Brought his own pencil.

[2:31:38] >> What can I tell you? What can I tell

[2:31:39] you?

[2:31:40] >> The only thing I wanted to say was there

[2:31:42] was a question about the signage on on

[2:31:43] Soul Road. Yeah.

[2:31:45] >> So,

[2:31:47] >> got to talk to the microphone and tell

[2:31:48] us who you are, sir.

[2:31:50] >> Canon and I live on Soul Road and I uh

[2:31:53] submitted the petition back on the 2nd

[2:31:55] of September, I think. So, the 30 mph

[2:31:58] speed limit sign starts if you're going

[2:32:01] from Main Street starts at Pleasant

[2:32:02] Street.

[2:32:03] >> Okay, that's I remember that one.

[2:32:04] >> Um

[2:32:06] >> then all around the point are advisory

[2:32:09] signs, the yellow signs. So the first

[2:32:12] one is near Frost Camp Lane, 25 m an

[2:32:16] hour

[2:32:17] >> and that's about a half a mile. So

[2:32:20] reducing the speed limit 5 miles an hour

[2:32:22] for that half mile added another 12

[2:32:25] seconds

[2:32:26] >> to somebody's commute.

[2:32:27] >> Yeah.

[2:32:28] >> So it's not a big ask for these people.

[2:32:30] We got 75 signatures uh on the petition

[2:32:34] in three days. We could have gotten 100

[2:32:36] easily. Y

[2:32:37] >> um you know with all respect to the the

[2:32:40] speed that's been reported

[2:32:44] everybody who lives on that road says

[2:32:46] people are going too fast on it and it's

[2:32:48] not safe for pedestrians and

[2:32:50] >> bicyclists and people that want to use

[2:32:52] it

[2:32:53] >> and um

[2:32:56] >> the other side I think it starts back at

[2:32:59] 30 miles an hour after the point and

[2:33:02] from there to forest road is 8/10 of a

[2:33:04] mile so that's 20

[2:33:06] additional time. So, I'm uh grateful to

[2:33:10] hear that they're considering to uh

[2:33:11] reduce the speed limit.

[2:33:13] >> Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Thanks

[2:33:14] for the input. Uh Mr. Wheeler, hang on.

[2:33:17] Mr. Wheeler, do you have anything on

[2:33:19] this topic at this point? At this point

[2:33:21] in time,

[2:33:22] >> not on this topic.

[2:33:23] >> Not at this point in time. Okay. Because

[2:33:24] once this gets dispositioned, if there

[2:33:26] is to be a change, there has to be

[2:33:27] signage and DPW has to get involved.

[2:33:30] >> Linda, did you have a question? Well,

[2:33:31] where I thought you were going on to any

[2:33:33] other business and I and I have some

[2:33:36] other business.

[2:33:36] >> You have some other business. Is there

[2:33:37] any other business?

[2:33:38] >> I do.

[2:33:40] >> Next item. Go ahead, Linda.

[2:33:41] >> Yeah, I I would like to um circle back

[2:33:45] on Kerry Beach and I would like to know

[2:33:47] what steps and by whom is the town

[2:33:49] taking to address the Kerry

[2:33:52] Beachitioner's request for a no

[2:33:54] anchoring zone off Kerry Beach and

[2:33:57] moving the swim lines. It's one of those

[2:33:59] things we got part of it done answered

[2:34:02] about the raking and I don't want to

[2:34:04] lose these two other pieces and you may

[2:34:07] not even know about

[2:34:08] >> this is the first time I hear this. Yes.

[2:34:10] >> Well, surprise. Here's another one.

[2:34:11] >> Here's another one.

[2:34:12] >> This is This happens every few minutes.

[2:34:15] >> Yes. Right. Um, but I just don't want

[2:34:17] the board to lose track of that because

[2:34:20] I really want us to move forward

[2:34:21] particularly on the anchoring and one of

[2:34:25] the of us can come in and explain to you

[2:34:27] what happens off Carry Beach.

[2:34:29] >> Okay.

[2:34:30] >> So, there's a need for an update. We

[2:34:31] won't do it here tonight because we

[2:34:32] don't want to put anybody on the spot,

[2:34:33] but the question is twofold. Number one

[2:34:35] is moving the swim lines out and then

[2:34:38] having some consideration about u

[2:34:40] whatever you want to call it, anchoring

[2:34:42] and rafting up. Um, I continue to be uh

[2:34:47] beused by the answer that says uh you

[2:34:51] can't move them. And when I drive out to

[2:34:53] uh Tufttonboro, the swim lines, you

[2:34:56] know, the way the hell out there and I'm

[2:34:58] sure there's a special reason. We need

[2:35:00] an answer. And uh we'll Jim, we'll talk

[2:35:03] to you about how how that process is

[2:35:05] working.

[2:35:06] >> Okay. Any other business, John?

[2:35:08] >> So, do you know why they're out on

[2:35:09] Tuftboro?

[2:35:10] >> Why? because you have to go way out

[2:35:12] there to get up past your belly button.

[2:35:14] [laughter]

[2:35:15] >> It doesn't drop off.

[2:35:16] >> The literal belly button test. I I don't

[2:35:18] know. I mean, that sounds like a high

[2:35:19] bad visual to me, but uh but I mean, but

[2:35:22] they're out there.

[2:35:23] >> They are, but it's not deep out there.

[2:35:25] It's gradual.

[2:35:25] >> But I think the state doesn't have a

[2:35:27] rule that says uh they have a belly

[2:35:28] button test. It's so many feet off the

[2:35:30] shore, right? So, we got to get that

[2:35:33] sorted. Um and we've had, you know,

[2:35:36] we've had folks at Wilbur Waters tell us

[2:35:38] that. I mean, because they live in the

[2:35:39] neighborhood and they look out there and

[2:35:41] I don't it doesn't matter how many

[2:35:42] boats. There's a lot of boats out there,

[2:35:44] you know, music and all that stuff. All

[2:35:46] right. Any other business, Linda?

[2:35:48] >> No, that was it.

[2:35:49] >> Ryan, Dave.

[2:35:50] >> Okay. Town manager report.

[2:35:53] >> Okay. Um, as the chair indicated

[2:35:56] earlier, uh, today I've been here just a

[2:35:58] little over two weeks. Um, I really want

[2:36:02] to thank the staff, number one, the

[2:36:04] select board, uh, members uh, of other

[2:36:06] boards in the public for being so

[2:36:09] welcoming. Um, essentially what what

[2:36:13] it's reflected to me is that Wolf Bro is

[2:36:15] a a beautiful place on many levels.

[2:36:18] Having said that, uh, some of the things

[2:36:20] that I've been doing include uh,

[2:36:22] reviewing the policies and ordinances.

[2:36:25] I've toured several facilities including

[2:36:28] Upper Beach Pond, the water treatment

[2:36:30] plant. I've toured the River Street

[2:36:32] water main reconstruction project.

[2:36:35] Obviously have gotten involved with the

[2:36:36] community center project. Uh involved

[2:36:39] with the uh downtown dock testing uh

[2:36:43] issue. I've attended CIP and budget

[2:36:46] meetings, visited the Aanaki Lodge

[2:36:49] toward me. Um and um you know that just

[2:36:54] is the the tip of the iceberg. Uh I want

[2:36:56] to get out to all facilities as soon as

[2:36:58] I can. Some of the upcoming things um

[2:37:02] the power supply procurement process uh

[2:37:05] is one step closer to being completed.

[2:37:08] Um as of today uh we did get uh a low

[2:37:12] bidder which is constellation. Uh they

[2:37:15] are have have been our power supplier

[2:37:17] for several years is my understanding.

[2:37:20] We don't have the translation of their

[2:37:23] bid into how that's going to impact the

[2:37:25] rates yet, but we will have our

[2:37:28] consultant come and do a presentation

[2:37:30] for the select board in November. We do

[2:37:33] know that the rate is going to go up.

[2:37:36] Um, and I think we've all been expecting

[2:37:38] that. U, the good news, I guess, is that

[2:37:41] the rate hasn't gone up and I've heard

[2:37:43] 10 years. I've heard 17 years. Um so um

[2:37:49] probably not unreasonable to see a rate

[2:37:51] increase in the in the current

[2:37:53] conditions.

[2:37:56] Uh another thing we've received a letter

[2:37:58] from residents uh representing Elm

[2:38:02] Street and Pine Hill near Route 110A.

[2:38:06] the letters regarding uh truck air

[2:38:09] braing and the the letter essentially we

[2:38:14] will we'll have that at the meeting on

[2:38:15] the 21st. Um in the meantime I'm going

[2:38:18] to be reaching out to do

[2:38:20] um to get their input on on what we

[2:38:23] might do about that.

[2:38:26] Uh I think earlier tonight someone

[2:38:27] mentioned the Whittenneck road

[2:38:29] correspondents from DOT. Uh DOT is

[2:38:32] recommending a road safety audit. uh and

[2:38:35] that they're indicating that the town

[2:38:37] should work with Governor's Landing

[2:38:39] Association and the Lake Region's

[2:38:41] Planning Commission. So, we'll also work

[2:38:43] on that. And lastly, I just wanted to uh

[2:38:47] keep at the forefront that we have RFPs

[2:38:49] for the assessing services that are

[2:38:51] going to be due November 12th.

[2:38:55] » Thank you, Jim.

[2:38:57] Congratulations on your long service.

[2:39:00] Have to put down committee reports.

[2:39:03] Let's start with Mr. Thirsten.

[2:39:05] >> No,

[2:39:06] >> Miss Murray.

[2:39:08] >> Yes, I attended the dockside welcome for

[2:39:10] the uh new town manager and I also

[2:39:13] attended the employees appreciation day.

[2:39:17] I attended last night Wolfboro meeting.

[2:39:19] The committee is starting its

[2:39:21] fundraising. I attended two Wolfboro

[2:39:24] area community

[2:39:27] media center meetings. One was the

[2:39:30] monthly board meeting and the other one

[2:39:32] was the governance committee meeting

[2:39:34] with the public works director. I

[2:39:36] visited the town reservoir. I attended

[2:39:40] two friends of pop whaling meeting

[2:39:42] regarding the chiller. I attended

[2:39:45] several meetings about the community

[2:39:47] center. One was with the builder, the

[2:39:49] town manager, Jordi Hutchinson and Brian

[2:39:52] to review the plans and walk around the

[2:39:55] facility to discuss the changes with the

[2:39:57] new town manager. And we all have been

[2:40:00] lucky to attend two budget review

[2:40:03] meetings.

[2:40:05] >> That's all I have.

[2:40:06] >> Mr. Senle,

[2:40:09] >> as Linda just mentioned, uh we've had

[2:40:11] some budget meetings.

[2:40:13] Linder and I met with the Chamber of

[2:40:15] Commerce in reference to rental of the

[2:40:20] railroad station, met with the friends

[2:40:23] of Abnaki. The motor is here [laughter]

[2:40:28] and is to be uh put together and

[2:40:30] installed hopefully they think within

[2:40:32] the next two weeks. So hopefully that

[2:40:35] will solve that issue.

[2:40:38] uh appreciation day as was mentioned

[2:40:41] dark side with the town manager

[2:40:43] and uh that's all I have

[2:40:46] >> Mr. Duchets.

[2:40:47] >> So we had we had two special select

[2:40:49] board meetings too and then we had two

[2:40:52] budget review meetings then I visited

[2:40:55] the retention pond. We had the dark side

[2:40:57] welcome um with hot dog Bob and um Jim

[2:41:01] Wheeler which was great. Um, employee

[2:41:03] appreciation day, I flipped, um, a

[2:41:06] hundred burgers and I think 140 hot

[2:41:10] dogs. Um, uh, we had the DOT South Main

[2:41:14] project that we attended.

[2:41:16] >> We did.

[2:41:17] >> Um, and, uh, because we're both on that

[2:41:19] commission to push that project forward.

[2:41:23] Um, I've had a lot of um interaction

[2:41:27] with um Amy over the Libby Museum and

[2:41:31] trying to find ways to move stuff. That

[2:41:34] was we already talked about that and

[2:41:36] we've had multiple multiple meetings on

[2:41:38] the community center and we're getting

[2:41:40] real close

[2:41:43] and that's all I've had.

[2:41:45] >> Thank you, Mr. Duchess. Um, on the

[2:41:47] Whiteneck, I don't know Jim if you saw

[2:41:49] this. I don't think you did. Um, because

[2:41:52] it came in just recently. The police

[2:41:53] department has provided crash data to

[2:41:56] the uh Department of Transportation on

[2:41:58] that segment of the road. Last night I

[2:42:01] was with Mr. Senacle with the friends of

[2:42:03] Abanaki.

[2:42:09] All you got to do is look at what

[2:42:10] they're doing and it's just amazing. I

[2:42:12] mean, the motors going in, it's all been

[2:42:14] donated. They're raising money that the electrification of the line.

[2:42:20] >> The good thing about

[2:42:21] >> makes you feel good. Um, at least it

[2:42:22] makes me feel good. I've been at CIP

[2:42:24] meetings. That's why I referenced that

[2:42:27] uh we are we are trying to move the uh

[2:42:31] move this thing along. We're scoring the

[2:42:33] projects right now.

[2:42:35] Um, I did go to the uh planning board

[2:42:37] last evening. I was at the uh hot dog

[2:42:41] bob uh welcome with uh the town manager.

[2:42:44] Same same on employee day. I went up to

[2:42:47] the uh public uh water supply and with

[2:42:51] the uh uh with the members up there, I

[2:42:54] flew the drone over the public water

[2:42:56] supply and had it loiter around certain

[2:42:58] places. Um that's uh that's I think it's

[2:43:02] on the public works website and I've

[2:43:05] been in u uh going over budgets. It's

[2:43:09] that time of the year. Um, I will tell

[2:43:12] you that um

[2:43:15] well I won't I won't mention that. I'll

[2:43:17] mention that later. So with that uh

[2:43:20] questions from the press. Do we have any

[2:43:21] questions from the press?

[2:43:23] >> Well, I have one thing about the

[2:43:24] Whiteneck um investigation. The they've

[2:43:28] since 2019 there have been six accidents

[2:43:31] there. One of them um wasn't there's no

[2:43:35] data on and there's only been one minor

[2:43:38] injury. So, at least we know that that

[2:43:40] intersection is not super dangerous, but

[2:43:43] I'm glad that we're doing a traffic

[2:43:44] study on it to make sure that it's as

[2:43:46] safe as it can be.

[2:43:47] >> Linda,

[2:43:48] >> yeah, I think the problem with that road

[2:43:50] coming out is your visibility on either

[2:43:52] direction. And and that's there may not

[2:43:55] have been crashes, but I'm sure a lot of

[2:43:57] people coming out of there have had some

[2:43:59] real hairy moments. And that's why their

[2:44:02] concern is because their lack of

[2:44:04] visibility. They've tried to put a

[2:44:06] mirror up there and and so I think it's

[2:44:08] they were wise to ask DOT to take a look

[2:44:12] at it in us.

[2:44:12] >> Yeah.

[2:44:13] >> Okay. So, anybody on the press online?

[2:44:16] Timothy

[2:44:17] >> Mayor Chambers the only one online.

[2:44:21] >> Okay. Good. Thank you. Last item is

[2:44:23] public input. 3 minutes. Uh 15 total.

[2:44:26] That gets us u at the 9:00 hour.

[2:44:31] >> I'll be quick. Got a couple of things.

[2:44:34] Uh, as you know, I'm the chair of the

[2:44:38] Friends of the uh, it's a long name, but

[2:44:41] just call it the community center. Uh,

[2:44:44] and this past week, we had our, uh,

[2:44:47] first inaugural, uh, golf tournament at

[2:44:50] Kingswood Golf Club, and I'd like to

[2:44:52] tell you, it's it was very successful,

[2:44:54] raised quite a bit of money. Uh, Brian

[2:44:57] knows the exact amount, so I'm not going

[2:44:59] to say at this point, but it it was

[2:45:01] quite a bit of money. Cool.

[2:45:03] >> Uh, number two, I had uh coffee with our

[2:45:07] new town manager, Jim Wheeler, uh,

[2:45:10] earlier this week. Um, it was, uh, it

[2:45:12] was a good meeting. Uh, like to commend

[2:45:15] the board for hiring a, uh, top-notch

[2:45:19] guy, and we'll see if you stay remain

[2:45:22] topnotch after a while, but [laughter]

[2:45:24] for right now, he's top-notch. Uh, and

[2:45:28] third, um, is a response to Brian's

[2:45:32] letter about the Libby Museum.

[2:45:35] That's a tall order. I mean, uh, it's

[2:45:38] not that, you know, the work is, uh, not

[2:45:41] doable, but some of the stuff, I mean,

[2:45:43] we're talking about deescension. It's

[2:45:45] like you're you're asking somebody who's

[2:45:48] not really a current trustee or

[2:45:50] associated with the trustees to

[2:45:53] determine go through the files and say,

[2:45:55] "Okay,

[2:45:57] we connect you with this artifact. Yes,

[2:45:59] we're going to return it and make the

[2:46:01] decision to return it." What if you get

[2:46:03] it wrong? You know, I mean, so it's a

[2:46:06] it's could be problematic is all I'm

[2:46:09] saying. U I'm not saying that people

[2:46:11] aren't going to want to do it. I'm just

[2:46:13] saying that people are going to want to

[2:46:15] be held harmless, if you will, and they

[2:46:18] don't want to make decisions that's

[2:46:19] going to cause, you know, you guys

[2:46:22] grief, us grief, and the people who uh

[2:46:26] actually loan the artifacts grief. Yeah.

[2:46:28] So, that's that's my call.

[2:46:30] >> Thank you, sir.

[2:46:31] >> Anyone else?

[2:46:34] >> Hi, Suz.

[2:46:42] Good evening.

[2:46:44] Um,

[2:46:45] >> Suzanne [clears throat] Ryan,

[2:46:46] >> first uh I would like to say that I

[2:46:48] agree with the presentation that the

[2:46:50] group put on about the uh testing, but I

[2:46:53] didn't want to take up their time and I

[2:46:57] didn't want to take away from the

[2:46:59] technical information they were giving

[2:47:01] you. Um,

[2:47:04] I'm going to kind of dumb it down to my

[2:47:06] level

[2:47:08] because all the numbers they were

[2:47:10] throwing and the subject matter that

[2:47:13] went with it is beyond me. Uh, but I

[2:47:18] will say that I don't think we can wait

[2:47:20] until the completion of the CIP project.

[2:47:24] uh from engineering design through to

[2:47:29] shovel in the ground [clears throat] and

[2:47:32] I think I heard number like five to

[2:47:34] seven years

[2:47:36] that would take it's going to take a

[2:47:38] long time and so

[2:47:41] what brings to mind to me is some some

[2:47:45] sort of remedial

[2:47:50] action taken there to tide us over and

[2:47:55] I'd

[2:47:56] like to go along something Linda

[2:47:59] mentioned about the town having plans

[2:48:02] passed and in the works and so forth. I

[2:48:06] would uh also like to bring a different

[2:48:08] perspective to that which is the town

[2:48:11] voters had voted on themselves

[2:48:15] and accepted

[2:48:17] the storm water management policy plan

[2:48:22] and the uh provisions that we have under

[2:48:26] the regulations of land use

[2:48:30] and property owners when they make

[2:48:32] changes or development to their

[2:48:34] property. They have to follow uh site

[2:48:37] plan review which includes

[2:48:40] storm water management.

[2:48:43] The town's voters also voted that re

[2:48:47] there are requirements for storm water

[2:48:49] management plans for commercial

[2:48:51] properties when changes are made to the

[2:48:54] property that would impact storm water

[2:48:56] management. As an example, we have a

[2:49:01] historic Hunter

[2:49:03] Sharp and Save in 2023

[2:49:07] that according uh to their engineer

[2:49:11] installed per

[2:49:14] their level of upgrading a storm water

[2:49:17] management plan which was very costly

[2:49:21] and they claimed and I believe that they

[2:49:24] put in one of the best vortex systems in the town of Wolboro. It were very

[2:49:29] costly and above and beyond what was

[2:49:32] required of them. It took care of the

[2:49:34] parking lot and that whole area.

[2:49:38] [clears throat] So

[2:49:41] given that we have this these

[2:49:44] regulations, I don't understand why we

[2:49:47] at the town docks aren't doing something

[2:49:50] to mitigate that problem.

[2:49:53] Whatever it be, we all I've heard it

[2:49:56] tonight.

[2:49:58] Maybe you all didn't agree, but some of

[2:50:00] you said you recognize there's some sort

[2:50:02] of a problem there.

[2:50:05] And it's caused by storm water somewhere

[2:50:09] somehow that's getting there and stuff

[2:50:14] is going into the lake that shouldn't go

[2:50:16] into the lake.

[2:50:18] uh we have a class B lake and under such

[2:50:27] um there are regulations which require

[2:50:30] that you do not do what we're doing and

[2:50:36] so with the idea of some sort of

[2:50:39] mitigation

[2:50:41] um I guess I have questions of the DPW

[2:50:46] and what they do uh on a annual or daily

[2:50:52] or weekly or monthly basis

[2:50:54] and um I haven't heard much about that

[2:50:59] and actually I don't know if we have any

[2:51:01] but I would like some to throw out some

[2:51:05] questions and maybe get some answers not

[2:51:07] tonight but forthcoming.

[2:51:10] So, um, does the DPW have storm water

[2:51:15] policy managements?

[2:51:17] Uh, does the DPW have a dayto-day

[2:51:21] pollution prevention task at the

[2:51:24] downtown dark waterfront?

[2:51:26] Do they clean out and keep clean the

[2:51:29] catch basin of sediment and prevent mud,

[2:51:34] leaf, leaf rot, and auto debris from

[2:51:38] entering flowing uh and flowing directly

[2:51:42] into the lake during or before heavy

[2:51:46] downpours predicted on a regular basis?

[2:51:50] Some kind of a policy.

[2:51:53] Do they have a regular sweeping schedule

[2:51:56] for downtown parking lots and the main

[2:52:01] street area where the in front of the

[2:52:04] Avery building that area to remove

[2:52:07] accumulated road sand, salt, and heavy

[2:52:10] metals before a rain can wash it down to

[2:52:15] the boat ramp?

[2:52:18] Does DPW have a big spring cleanup of

[2:52:22] the parking area and storm drain policy?

[2:52:27] Better yet, what is the written best

[2:52:30] policy, best management policy

[2:52:34] for storm water at the docks, parking

[2:52:38] lot, and storm drain? How do we strive

[2:52:42] to keep a close as close to the Clean

[2:52:47] Water Act at the site as possible? And

[2:52:52] what remedial action will you now take,

[2:52:55] such as knowing there is a problem? Call

[2:52:58] it what you may.

[2:53:02] Um,

[2:53:04] uh, you have to excuse me. I'm still get

[2:53:08] getting over something. I don't know

[2:53:10] what uh [sighs] so

[2:53:17] uh examples of remedial action and

[2:53:21] believe me I I'm not trying to preach to the choir because I know only this

[2:53:28] much but the catch basin has a way of

[2:53:34] having an insert that is a strain a

[2:53:38] storm water drain filter filtration

[2:53:42] way of filtering and I don't know if

[2:53:45] that storm water catch basin down there

[2:53:48] has anything other than what you see

[2:53:51] from when you look at it. So um but

[2:53:56] there should be some routine vacuuming

[2:53:58] that the vacuum truck comes in and they

[2:54:01] pump and and sweeping once a month. uh

[2:54:07] not once a year. Um

[2:54:11] uh sweeping maybe should be bi-weekly

[2:54:14] during summer

[2:54:16] for storm water. Uh think think about uh the water coming

[2:54:27] off the parking lot in a sheet of water.

[2:54:31] Um, could we not have some sort of a a

[2:54:36] sock or whatever they call it that's a a

[2:54:40] on the edge of the area by the by the uh

[2:54:44] ramp that sort of um

[2:54:49] absorbs some of that and and tries to uh

[2:54:53] eliminate all of it going into the

[2:54:55] water. I there's mechanisms again far

[2:54:58] beyond what I understand.

[2:55:01] But um

[2:55:04] I also pulled out the 22 master plan.

[2:55:08] Um,

[2:55:10] this thing

[2:55:11] >> 22

[2:55:14] » 19

[2:55:15] >> I pulled it out for another reason, but

[2:55:18] there's several mentions of storm water

[2:55:20] management

[2:55:22] and it's great on paper, but we aren't

[2:55:24] doing any of it. I mean, we're doing

[2:55:26] some of it, but a lot of it has to do

[2:55:29] with committees and and other

[2:55:31] organizations and writing for grants.

[2:55:35] I'm asking for something to be done

[2:55:37] sooner than later, like now,

[2:55:41] plan for now. And then I'm also going to

[2:55:44] send you

[2:55:47] um I I talked to the engineer who did um

[2:55:52] the uh hunters.

[2:55:54] Um I was trying to find out how much

[2:55:56] money that cost. Um, but instead of

[2:56:00] that, I got some other good information.

[2:56:03] And uh, where did I write it down? I'm

[2:56:06] going to send you the link because it

[2:56:08] had had some good stuff. And uh, what he

[2:56:12] called it was um, a link to jellyfish.

[2:56:17] And I'm thinking, I grew up at Plum

[2:56:19] Island. I know what jellyfish are. What

[2:56:21] the heck is jellyfish doing up here at

[2:56:23] the lake? So that tells you how I I know

[2:56:26] so little about this. But it is a

[2:56:29] filtration uh product and we can ensure not wait six six or more

[2:56:38] years to address the storm water drain

[2:56:41] problem. Whatever whatever we got

[2:56:44] whatever you want to call it that we've

[2:56:46] all agreed there's a problem. So, I'll send you the link. Thank you.

[2:56:50] >> And uh there's a couple other links,

[2:56:53] too. And some of it you know about from

[2:56:56] um the public safety building, too.

[2:56:58] >> Um but I think there's something that be

[2:57:00] can be done and we're skipping that

[2:57:02] step. Thank you. That's

[2:57:04] >> Thank you. And uh take care of your

[2:57:06] cold.

[2:57:07] >> Let's do one more uh because we're

[2:57:09] almost at the appointed time.

[2:57:12] [snorts]

[2:57:14] >> Hello, Bobby Bman. Um, I want to go to

[2:57:16] the Wit and Neck conversation. Part of

[2:57:19] the reason I came tonight, um, waiting

[2:57:21] for a road study audit for the community

[2:57:25] and for that corner. Um, William Lambert

[2:57:28] was very clear and we went back and

[2:57:31] forth on that corner is 43 to 44 miles

[2:57:36] an hour. That's more than the speed

[2:57:38] limit there. This board has the right to

[2:57:41] propose and ask for a 30 m an hour speed

[2:57:45] limit there. And I highly recommend that

[2:57:47] you do that for the for your

[2:57:49] constituents, for the people on that

[2:57:51] corner. Very clear. They did the study,

[2:57:54] asked for it. Why are we going to wait?

[2:57:56] I mean, we know we know the speed limit

[2:57:58] that's happening there. Um, what was my

[2:58:02] other thing? Oh, different hat. Uh,

[2:58:04] budget

[2:58:06] season is upon us. Last year there was a

[2:58:09] sweeping cut. I think it was $30,000 to

[2:58:14] handle our storm water drains and it was

[2:58:18] not put back in the budget and I know

[2:58:21] that we discussed it at length. So I do

[2:58:24] hope this year that that is not

[2:58:26] somewhere where this board feels like

[2:58:29] money should be cut. there are other

[2:58:31] places to cut our storm water based on

[2:58:34] what we're hearing tonight is very

[2:58:36] important to deal with. Um

[2:58:40] we can talk about Kerry Beach later. And

[2:58:44] uh the other thing was I wanted to

[2:58:46] invite people on October 16th, Friday

[2:58:50] night, we will be discussing HB1300

[2:58:53] at Kingswood Regional High School. That

[2:58:56] is a um statutory

[2:59:00] decision that will go on our ballot and

[2:59:03] it's at the town level, but it's the

[2:59:05] town level for the school and we will be

[2:59:08] voting on that and we will have a

[2:59:10] discussion at 6:30. Doors open at 5:30

[2:59:13] and that will be in the lecture hall at

[2:59:16] Kingswood Regional High School. Thanks.

[2:59:18] >> Thanks, Bobby. Appreciate your bre your

[2:59:20] brevity as well. Board members, uh could

[2:59:23] I get a motion to uh go into non-public,

[2:59:25] please? So moved. Second.

[2:59:27] >> I have a motion and a second to move

[2:59:28] into non-public. All those in favor? I.

[2:59:30] >> I.

[2:59:31] >> Holy mackerel.

[2:59:33] >> Thank you, Bobby, for punctuating my

[2:59:35] motion.

[2:59:35] >> She just hit the gavl.

[2:59:36] >> Okay,

[2:59:38] >> all those in favor, I for non-public.

[2:59:40] >> I

[2:59:41] >> Okay, we're in non-public. Thank you,

[2:59:42] everybody. Have a good night.

[2:59:46] » We have some things here for board

[2:59:48] members to sign.

[2:59:49] >> We should

[2:59:50] >> start down this in

[2:59:59] Thank you.

[3:00:00] >> Okay.

7 October 2026 Wolfeboro Select Board Meeting

Transcript