[0:03] Okay. Um we'll go on the record now.

[0:06] This has been the time set for which

[0:08] notice has been given for the hearing um

[0:12] here in Woodland Hills. And the first

[0:15] item that we apparently are going to be

[0:17] discussing is the application filed by

[0:20] um Gayen Briggs regarding property at

[0:23] 695 South on Mebo Circle in Woodland

[0:26] Hills. Um, for the record, the people

[0:29] that are present is my name is Judy

[0:31] Lever and I'll be acting as a hearing

[0:33] officer for the um for the city. So that

[0:37] you know, um I'm not I I'm hired as a

[0:40] hearing officer. I don't work for the

[0:42] city um and do an independent. My

[0:45] background is I am an attorney and have

[0:47] been for longer than I would like to

[0:49] admit. Um, and my first the about the

[0:53] first third of my practice I was

[0:56] involved as an assistant city attorney

[0:58] dealing with planning and zoning and

[1:00] building in Salt Lake City Corporation.

[1:02] Um, since that time other changes have

[1:05] been doing that and I'm not working in

[1:08] that area right now. Um, and have served

[1:12] on

[1:14] um, some boards that were

[1:16] environmentally

[1:18] involved. the state has the state fire

[1:20] land board in the oil and gas

[1:22] commission. So, um so that's kind of

[1:25] where my experience has brought me to in

[1:28] this. Um I've elected for the as a

[1:31] hearing officer for Woodland before and

[1:35] I've done it for solid for holiday and

[1:38] for I did one out in Bountiful, West

[1:40] Bountiful. So I have done that. Um the

[1:45] record should reflect the people that

[1:46] are here on behalf of the city and in

[1:49] this particular application. So that

[1:52] would include Will you please introduce

[1:53] yourself for the record?

[1:56] >> I'm Wayne Franson

[1:58] uh with planning and zoning for the city

[2:01] and uh also with ordinance enforcement.

[2:04] >> Okay.

[2:06] I'm Sher Briggs. I live at at the

[2:09] residence that we are talking about

[2:10] today.

[2:10] >> And Gayen Briggs, the applicant. Yeah,

[2:13] it was okay. And the record should

[2:15] reflect that it's being recorded by the

[2:17] recorder, Jody Stone, who is also

[2:20] present. And there is also um the

[2:23] applicant on the next matter that's here

[2:24] in the in the um room participating.

[2:29] Generally speaking, what we would like

[2:31] what I would plan to do is to go through

[2:33] and I would like Mr. France and on

[2:36] behalf of the city to just introduce the

[2:39] background of the process for the

[2:41] procedure of where we are in terms of

[2:43] from the city standpoint then you'll

[2:46] have the opportunity Mr. Briggs and Mrs.

[2:48] Briggs to present whatever evidence that

[2:51] you want. As I've already indicated to

[2:54] you before any exhibits or illustrations

[2:57] that you use will need to be marked so

[3:00] that they can be attached and become

[3:02] part of the record. Um, if you were

[3:04] using something that is already in the

[3:06] record and something that's already

[3:09] attached to the application,

[3:11] um, if I have a copy of that, then

[3:15] we'll put that as the application. If

[3:17] not, then we would have it marked. Okay.

[3:19] >> Okay. And so with that framework, Mr.

[3:24] Franson, would you please introduce us

[3:26] to where we are?

[3:27] >> Okay.

[3:28] Um some time ago, what is maybe a month,

[3:32] six weeks ago, um Mr. Briggs came to us

[3:38] uh with interest of building a detached

[3:42] garage off the uh corner of his um of

[3:48] his home. Uh he had spoken with a

[3:52] neighbor uh about it. the neighbor was

[3:55] uh was fine with what he was proposing

[3:58] to do. He had mentioned to us that when

[4:02] they were um contemplate purchasing the

[4:07] home, uh they were the first occupants

[4:10] of this home. It had been built as a a

[4:12] spec home and hadn't been lived in yet.

[4:15] The homeowner president said that there

[4:19] would be be fine that they could they

[4:21] would allow a garage uh to be to be

[4:25] built there. Uh this garage was to house

[4:29] both a boat and a um and a trailer, a

[4:34] camp trailer.

[4:36] Um so he brought in some preliminary

[4:39] plans to show us and make sure that he

[4:42] was going down the right road with it

[4:44] all. And as we uh got into the detail

[4:49] and discussed it and looking at our

[4:51] ordinance

[4:52] um we all realized that it was it would be

[5:01] counter to our ordinance requirements.

[5:05] uh in that there was not sufficient room

[5:10] uh in the in the area that he wanted to

[5:13] build which he was rather it was

[5:15] confined to to his property and and yard

[5:19] in that area. Uh the main obstruction

[5:23] being a requirement that uh it be 20t

[5:27] away from his from the residence

[5:31] >> from his residence.

[5:32] >> His residence. Correct.

[5:35] Um

[5:37] we our ordinances allow an accessory

[5:41] building including

[5:44] accessory garage that to have different

[5:47] setbacks than the main house structure

[5:52] does. So he would comply those would be

[5:56] complied with. Um

[5:59] >> what are those? And as an accessory what

[6:01] are the setbacks requirements?

[6:04] Um the side setback is 5 feet away from

[6:08] the property line and the rear setback

[6:11] is 10 ft away from the property line for

[6:14] an accessory building.

[6:17] Um,

[6:19] however, there is a requirement that it

[6:22] be 20 ft away from the main residence

[6:26] and that therein creates an issue and

[6:31] problem as it there would not be

[6:34] sufficient room to be 20 ft away of the

[6:38] main residence and still comply with the

[6:40] other setbacks for the side or the rear

[6:43] setback for an accessory building.

[6:46] >> So, um, so from what I'm understanding,

[6:50] then

[6:52] it's five on the side, 10 in the back

[6:55] for an accessory building, and 20 from

[6:57] the house. And it's the 20 from the

[6:59] house that they can't that they're in

[7:01] that they are short.

[7:02] >> Yes.

[7:03] >> What is that distance proposed?

[7:07] >> Um, the the distance where we were

[7:10] proposing to build, you mean?

[7:11] >> Yes.

[7:12] >> From the house,

[7:12] >> it's it's like 6 and 1/2 ft. So it would

[7:16] be from the very corner of the house

[7:18] which is where the corner of the garage

[7:21] would start and then it would go back.

[7:22] So the closest the the two the two

[7:26] corners would be like 6 and 1/2 ft

[7:28] >> from each other.

[7:29] >> Is that is that roof corners or is that

[7:32] structural corners?

[7:33] >> That'd be structural corners.

[7:34] >> Is the roof does the roof

[7:36] >> Are you sure that does the roof overhang

[7:38] to shorten it?

[7:41] >> Maybe a foot.

[7:42] >> Yeah. how you say that. I'm not

[7:45] >> sure.

[7:46] >> I'm not sure. It could be

[7:48] >> our

[7:49] >> the way our ordinance reads, it's

[7:52] >> it's structural. We don't

[7:54] >> the overhang of

[7:56] >> recognize the overhang of

[7:58] >> Okay.

[8:01] >> So, at that point, he realized that it

[8:04] um

[8:06] he would be out of compliance with the

[8:08] setbacks.

[8:10] >> And how big is the building that he's

[8:11] proposing?

[8:13] Uh I do want is

[8:15] >> 35 by 35.

[8:17] >> Okay.

[8:21] » And uh we've talked to him about

[8:24] reducing that size, but then it would

[8:28] not

[8:30] house the boat and the the trailer if it

[8:34] were smaller.

[8:36] Um

[8:39] the

[8:39] >> and it's not just the boat and the

[8:41] trailer, but just

[8:42] >> Well, it's some other storage

[8:44] >> area there, too.

[8:45] >> Okay. Okay.

[8:46] >> Um

[8:47] the

[8:49] >> the 20 foot setback.

[8:51] Um

[8:55] part of that is a

[8:59] from the research that we've been able

[9:00] to do pertains to fire safety.

[9:05] Um

[9:07] but um Mr. Briggs indicated that he

[9:11] plans on building it the building the

[9:13] garage according to code. So it wouldn't

[9:16] be something that would be haphazardly

[9:20] done. It would be inspected as it is

[9:23] built and uh including uh sprinklers. He has sprinklers in his home and he

[9:30] would continue with that fire sprinklers

[9:34] in in the structure to lessen the any

[9:37] fire danger.

[9:38] >> Is the proposed fire sprinkler system

[9:41] would that be required in an accessory

[9:42] building or is that an addition?

[9:45] >> No, it's it's it's not unless it's

[9:48] heated.

[9:50] If the accessory building is heated,

[9:52] then sprinklers are required. Is this

[9:55] >> his building, this building won't be

[9:57] heated. It' just be an added precaution

[10:00] against fire. Uh not only to protect the

[10:04] building, but to protect his home should there be a fire started in the

[10:09] garage. There would be a sprinkler

[10:11] system there to to suppress it.

[10:15] >> Does a sprinkler system

[10:18] Well, I'll I'll reserve my question

[10:20] answer. I'm sorry. So, um,

[10:27] our ordinance our ordinance reads that

[10:31] if it is, if the structure is more than

[10:34] 20 ft away, then it from the main

[10:38] structure,

[10:40] then it doesn't have to

[10:45] there's less code requirements for it.

[10:48] Um,

[10:49] >> what do you mean? has the least less

[10:52] danger.

[10:52] >> I know. But what kind of you say less

[10:55] code? Tell me what that means.

[10:58] >> Um

[10:58] >> fire separation or fire insulation or

[11:01] >> Yes, there there probably not be

[11:04] insulation requirements.

[11:06] Um

[11:08] for it there.

[11:12] If it's if it's closer than 20 ft, then

[11:16] it does have fire sprinkler requirements

[11:22] even though there's no heat in it.

[11:24] >> So, sprinkling is required.

[11:26] >> Correct.

[11:26] >> If it's if it's closer than 20 ft.

[11:31] So, that's another code requirement that would be under issue at issue as well. The

[11:41] sprinklers

[11:45] Yeah.

[11:47] >> Um

[11:49] >> what would be required under the code

[11:52] for strict compliance?

[11:55] >> The setback is the issue

[12:00] » and

[12:00] >> he he wants to build it according to

[12:02] code so that make sure that it's

[12:05] >> I understand.

[12:06] >> What would the setback require?

[12:09] It would require the same setback as the

[12:11] house

[12:14] if it's closer than 20 ft.

[12:17] >> Okay.

[12:18] >> So, the house that it it wouldn't

[12:21] qualify any longer as an accessory

[12:23] building for setback purposes.

[12:28] Then it would and and given that then it

[12:31] has to follow the house setback

[12:34] requirements

[12:35] >> which would which you've already said

[12:37] were the five. That's the that's the

[12:39] accessory building set.

[12:41] >> And what would that change?

[12:42] >> That's what he would have. The the rear

[12:44] is 30 ft.

[12:47] The side is it 15?

[12:51] >> 20 I think. Is it

[12:53] >> 15 one side and 20 the other

[12:57] in that R119

[12:59] area. And the front is not an issue, but

[13:03] it's it's 30 ft

[13:06] over there for front set back.

[13:11] » So, let me make sure I'm understanding

[13:13] the the

[13:14] >> parameters here.

[13:16] >> Okay. Under strict code compliance, the

[13:19] structure because it's within 20 feet of

[13:24] the building

[13:27] still has to

[13:30] meet all of the required setbacks for

[13:32] the main home, which would mean the a

[13:35] rear yard, an extended rear yard, the

[13:38] sidey yard, and the front yard. Correct.

[13:39] >> And you're saying that that would

[13:41] increase those setbacks.

[13:43] Um, so it's considered part of the main

[13:46] house if I mean

[13:47] >> in essence

[13:48] >> envelope on the of the parameters of the

[13:51] outside I guess this is an exhibit but

[13:54] um preserving setbacks on the

[13:58] >> on the property lines correct the

[14:00] original house and be within that

[14:01] envelope or that working.

[14:03] >> Yes. Whereas you're saying an accessory

[14:04] building, if it's treated as an

[14:06] accessory building,

[14:08] then those limitation, those sideyards

[14:11] decrease because they're considered in

[14:13] the backyard or the rear yard. But at

[14:16] this point, there is not a separation

[14:19] that's adequate to make it an accessory

[14:21] building because it's too close to the

[14:23] main would be too close to the main

[14:25] building.

[14:25] >> Correct.

[14:32] What what code what requirements would

[14:43] happen if the building actually touched to the

[14:48] building would be can just considered

[14:50] under that same parameter as part of the

[14:52] original house?

[14:54] >> Yes.

[14:59] And is there a code requirement that

[15:02] requires in the case where there are two

[15:04] separate buildings where there has to be

[15:07] a minimum is it or is that the 20 ft?

[15:11] >> That's the 20 ft.

[15:12] >> Yes.

[15:12] >> And what are the purposes for that 20 ft

[15:16] be? You said one was

[15:20] for fire.

[15:22] >> Yes. And that's that's primarily what it is.

[15:28] >> But

[15:28] >> now we we've done tried to do some

[15:30] research. It's been long explained and

[15:34] carried forward for many years in our

[15:37] city.

[15:39] Most of our city is encumbered by uh a

[15:43] WOOI. It's called a WOOI fire ordinance.

[15:46] This was wildland

[15:48] urban

[15:49] >> interface.

[15:50] Yes. Yes, that was promoted

[15:53] by the um state fire land. I think

[15:56] >> it has been and uh we've tried to do

[15:59] some research on this 20 foot distance

[16:02] and we can't find anything in our WOOI

[16:05] co in the WOOI code that requires that

[16:09] 20 foot distance.

[16:12] We've we've always had it and that's

[16:13] what we've gone by and we've different

[16:16] fire chiefs have just something's been

[16:19] carried on but we've researched it and

[16:21] we can't find where that is addressed

[16:24] that way.

[16:25] >> Has the fire chief made a recommendation

[16:27] in this particular matter?

[16:29] >> No.

[16:30] Um

[16:33] >> he's he's been he's been part of the

[16:36] discussion

[16:38] but he hasn't made a recommendation

[16:40] other than

[16:42] it's in our code

[16:48] » which from a legislative part is all

[16:50] that he has to say but

[16:52] >> yes.

[16:54] >> Okay.

[17:00] Um,

[17:01] >> and we we we will probably do some more

[17:03] research on that to make sure that

[17:09] if it's not part of that, we we don't

[17:12] want to have it. If it is, then fine,

[17:15] it's it would be part of our code, but

[17:17] it it it still be something that

[17:20] potentially subject to variance. But if

[17:22] we don't need it, I mean, if it's not

[17:24] required in our code, we don't want to

[17:27] give impression that it that it is

[17:30] required.

[17:31] >> Now, that doesn't mean the city can't

[17:33] say we still want a 20 foot distance.

[17:36] >> No, you can. And

[17:37] >> for own purposes. So, that's something

[17:39] that's down the down the line that we

[17:41] would have to further explore. Um,

[17:49] and I, and if I didn't disclose it

[17:52] before on the record, let me do it. Is I

[17:54] did take the opportunity to drive by the

[17:57] properties that were subject to this

[17:58] today because it's I felt like I needed

[18:02] to understand the slage and what was

[18:04] going on.

[18:06] Uh in and my question is in this house

[18:10] is that if a variance were allowed,

[18:15] there would not be a way to get a

[18:19] vehicle going at great because the house

[18:23] sits

[18:25] I guess on the directions on the north

[18:27] side of the lot and it slopes off to the

[18:30] north after that and it slopes off to

[18:33] the west.

[18:35] that if you were bringing in and you're

[18:38] at the top of the hill and if you're

[18:40] bringing in or had to bring in

[18:43] um emergency material, I mean

[18:46] firefighting equipment, there would not

[18:49] be a way to get to your backyard.

[18:52] >> No, there would be on the other side of

[18:53] the house.

[18:54] >> Well, but it's down on the slope. But we don't we don't take engines onto the

[19:01] property unless the property is

[19:04] >> on fire. I mean

[19:05] >> well distant distant we fight the engine

[19:09] would stay on the street and it would

[19:12] hook up to hydrants on the street and

[19:15] hoses would be run. That's that's our

[19:21] that's the way we do it here. We don't

[19:24] put engines on prop on the property

[19:26] themselves. It just it it exposes them

[19:30] to fire danger too much and we rely upon

[19:33] the pumping action of the engines with

[19:36] the hoses for fire suppression. So

[19:40] you're, if I'm understanding it, then

[19:42] you're saying that in firefighting

[19:44] things, you would not generally take a

[19:47] vehicle

[19:49] back off of the street anyway because

[19:51] you would have the street hooked up to

[19:54] hooked on up to the street.

[19:56] >> Correct. That's right.

[20:00] >> Okay.

[20:01] >> But Judy, just so you know, so when we

[20:04] do the construction of the garage, we're

[20:05] going to use the other side of the house

[20:06] and come up come up that way. So there

[20:09] is access in the backyard if if if you

[20:12] needed it. But

[20:13] >> there's an easement in there that they

[20:15] aren't using and we were told just to

[20:18] divide it with the neighbor and do what

[20:19] you know we wanted. So we wouldn't do

[20:20] anything structurally but there is

[20:22] access into the back if we had to.

[20:25] >> Yeah. But that's how we're going to

[20:26] bring equipment in to try to because the

[20:29] concrete that we have in there is all

[20:31] got radiant heating in. I don't want to

[20:32] bring heavy stuff in there and crack

[20:34] that. So we're going to actually bring

[20:35] the construction around the other side.

[20:36] Maybe what we ought to do are we are you

[20:40] have you presented the things that you

[20:42] need to wait

[20:44] >> um

[20:47] » I'll ask you for your recommendation

[20:49] after they

[20:50] >> okay the

[20:53] just I guess the last thing I would say

[20:55] is they're they're going to be building

[20:58] this garage as though it were part of

[21:00] the house with code standards and

[21:03] requirements.

[21:05] Everything will be code compliant as if

[21:08] it were an actual part of the house.

[21:16] » But do I take it that that extends to

[21:18] protecting the structure but would not

[21:21] extend to suppressing fire in the area?

[21:25] I mean, it would just be

[21:27] for within the structure.

[21:30] both. It would be it would just be like

[21:34] part of the house going going out the

[21:37] back there and so it would be it would

[21:40] be protected the same way as the house

[21:41] would.

[21:44] >> Well,

[21:46] >> but

[21:46] >> technically it doesn't have setbacks. It

[21:48] wouldn't have the setbacks that just

[21:52] >> correct. It wouldn't have house

[21:54] setbacks.

[21:56] >> So you it's closer

[22:00] Do we um

[22:05] have

[22:09] excuse me seems to me that in the

[22:12] application that I'm looking at

[22:15] is there a

[22:19] um response

[22:22] from this the gay is it gays? So there's

[22:26] two gay

[22:27] >> name was gay gay

[22:28] >> the the gays

[22:31] the gay uh that is the president of the

[22:34] homeowners association that developed

[22:35] summer creek

[22:36] >> we have so we went through them in the

[22:39] process they've approved that

[22:41] >> I'm talking about the prop the owner

[22:42] that would be to your

[22:44] >> what east

[22:46] >> to the yeah to the east

[22:47] >> his mother who lives on this house

[22:50] adjacent to where

[22:52] >> okay

[22:52] >> their property is

[22:53] >> is she gay gay Yes. Yeah.

[22:55] >> Yeah. Well,

[22:56] >> well, now she's gay.

[22:58] >> Gay Matson. Now she's got remarried.

[23:01] But yes, and she's the one that wrote

[23:03] the letter that signed the letter that went over talked to her. She was in

[23:08] full.

[23:09] >> She was actually glad. She says she

[23:10] wanted more privacy anyway and she was

[23:12] going to plant a bunch of trees in

[23:13] there.

[23:14] >> Yeah.

[23:16] But

[23:16] >> that's all the comments that I would

[23:18] have.

[23:18] >> We don't do we have anything from the

[23:21] property owner to the north?

[23:26] against

[23:27] >> the Is that the empty

[23:28] >> the Johnson's you mean to the Oh, to the

[23:31] >> to the north downhill and to the north.

[23:33] I mean, it looks like a property line

[23:35] comes up there.

[23:36] >> It is. It's It's a agriculture

[23:39] land now. And

[23:42] I don't think we they got a a letter

[23:46] from him.

[23:47] >> Yeah, I did I didn't I actually didn't

[23:49] think about asking to be honest with

[23:51] you. So

[23:51] >> because the property will be

[23:54] I mean if he were

[23:58] he would if the regular ordinance would

[24:01] be applied he would have a 30ft

[24:03] separation before having a building and

[24:06] now he would and under this one that

[24:08] would be reduced to 10 ft. Is that

[24:11] right?

[24:11] >> Well and it is the behind our our our

[24:14] lot. So they wouldn't be building

[24:17] directly in directly in back cuz it

[24:19] drops off back of our house.

[24:21] >> I understand. I just was wondering if we don't have anything

[24:25] >> I don't

[24:26] >> from from him. Okay.

[24:30] » Okay.

[24:32] Mr. Briggs, would you Mr. Mrs. Briggs

[24:35] whoever?

[24:38] >> Um I'm trying to I think that was really

[24:41] thorough what Wayne said. So, I think

[24:45] the the concerns that I wanted to make

[24:48] sure we addressed was um was with the

[24:51] neighbor to the east to make sure that

[24:53] she know because she would be the one

[24:56] that would actually see it. But the

[24:59] house the structure would be 50 ft from

[25:02] her home even though. So it it's the

[25:05] prop when you when you saw our property

[25:08] if you saw the rock wall there

[25:11] >> containing wall.

[25:12] >> There's a containing wall. There's actually two of them.

[25:15] >> The lowest one.

[25:17] >> Her property her property comes 10 ft

[25:20] and it it almost looks like it's our

[25:21] property but it's not. It's hers. It

[25:23] comes.

[25:24] >> So where that lower rock wall that is

[25:27] abuts to your cement, you're saying

[25:31] that's her line or 10 ft?

[25:33] >> No, the one up above that.

[25:35] >> Okay. So the second layer,

[25:36] >> yeah, the second sorry, the second one

[25:39] is is actually another 10 ft into uh it

[25:43] would be you would have to come another

[25:44] 10 ft to be into our property line. So

[25:47] it's it's kind of weird how they did it.

[25:48] looks it looks like our property, but

[25:50] it's actually hers.

[25:51] >> We take care of it cuz Second one is

[25:53] actually on her property and the

[25:55] property line is between the two. Yeah,

[25:57] lower.

[25:58] >> That's ex Yeah, pretty much right there.

[26:01] >> So, she's actually visually

[26:05] a little closer than you would expect

[26:09] if you thought both of the rock walls

[26:11] were your property. Her property kind of

[26:14] is in between those two.

[26:16] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[26:17] >> But that 50 ft is from that property

[26:20] line

[26:21] >> to her home.

[26:22] >> Yeah. and we're down from her house. So,

[26:24] >> yeah. Great.

[26:26] >> And and the way it's going to set is is

[26:29] cuz I went over I took the plans over

[26:31] and showed her and her husband and it's

[26:34] actually going to set almost behind her

[26:36] house. So,

[26:37] >> it's really not going to and and it's

[26:39] going to be cut into the into the, you

[26:41] know, the elevation down

[26:45] >> and so maybe she would see maybe 8 to

[26:47] nine feet of that of that building and

[26:49] that's it.

[26:51] Um, how

[26:52] >> how um what is the size of the building

[26:56] that you're proposing?

[26:57] >> It's it's 35 by 35.

[27:02] >> Now, it's not a small

[27:04] >> place. You already have a threec car

[27:06] garage as it looked like from building

[27:09] your home.

[27:09] >> Yes. Yeah. This is a third world

[27:12] problem. Okay. No kidding. Well, also we

[27:15] were doing it because the home does not

[27:18] have a storage room or anything

[27:20] >> on the inside.

[27:21] >> Part of the basement is crawl space

[27:24] because of the because of the elevation

[27:26] change.

[27:28] >> So, we don't have that storage room. So,

[27:30] that's Yeah, I think that's why the

[27:32] house sat on the market. A lot of people

[27:33] liked it, but everybody's like, "Well,

[27:34] can I build a garage?" And I think they

[27:36] were all told that they could. And then

[27:39] we thought, "Well, if we can build a

[27:40] garage, we can make it work." You just

[27:42] asked the wrong person.

[27:45] >> Ask the city, not the builder.

[27:46] >> Was that

[27:47] >> Ask the city, not the builder.

[27:49] >> Well, yeah. Well,

[27:52] >> hindsight's always 20, but uh

[27:55] >> um so I think the concern was was was

[27:58] there any concerns from her and because

[28:01] we're going to make the the finish of

[28:02] the house is going to look um it won't

[28:04] have as much wood on three sides.

[28:07] >> Finish of the garage.

[28:08] >> Yeah, the garage.

[28:09] >> House. But we're going to try to Yeah,

[28:10] we're gonna Sorry. We're gonna try to

[28:12] match,

[28:13] >> you know, we want to take, you know, we

[28:16] want to make sure that that what we do

[28:18] enhances our home and not that, you

[28:20] know, do something different. But

[28:22] >> so you're okay. So what you're saying is

[28:24] your the exterior materials that you

[28:26] plan on using on the accessory building

[28:30] will match your main structure

[28:31] >> part part of it. So the front part of it

[28:33] is going to be Hardy board. currently is

[28:36] actually cedar, but we're going to try

[28:38] to we're going to use hardy board

[28:40] because it takes less maintenance. Make

[28:42] sure it's stained the same color as the

[28:44] house. And then three sides of it we're

[28:46] going to be um

[28:49] we're we want to do stucco because it's

[28:51] a little less expensive, but we might

[28:55] that that part's still in flux a little

[28:57] bit. The but currently it's planned for

[29:00] stucco on three sides and and wood on

[29:02] the front that you would see. And I

[29:04] explain that to to the homeowner next to

[29:07] us.

[29:08] >> So you won't be seeing a stucco

[29:09] structure like something that is down

[29:12] the bottom of your lot. I'm assuming

[29:14] it's on the other property.

[29:16] >> Oh, say that again.

[29:18] >> Going looking from your home looking

[29:21] west down the hill. There was something

[29:24] that was stuck. I don't presume that it

[29:26] was on your property. It looked like it

[29:28] was associated with the other property.

[29:30] >> Yeah, it's it's the people next door.

[29:32] Johnson's next door to us.

[29:33] >> Is that an accessory building as well?

[29:35] >> It is. Yeah.

[29:37] >> And does it maintain the

[29:40] >> setbacks? Does it maintain the setbacks?

[29:42] It's obviously smaller.

[29:44] >> Yes. It's away from the main structure

[29:46] quite a distance. So, it it's

[29:48] >> it has accessory building setbacks

[29:50] >> and it does have the accessory setbacks

[29:53] there.

[29:53] >> Again, that's only 5T and 10 feet, 10

[29:55] feet and 5t. But

[29:57] >> I understand that they're different.

[29:59] >> Yeah. Okay. Um

[30:02] >> um I'm I'm just trying to think. So I

[30:04] think that was

[30:07] one of the concerns we had was make sure

[30:08] that there wasn't any issue with the

[30:10] neighbor. Um and she was she was fine

[30:13] with it. I wanted to make sure that the

[30:15] HOA knew what we were planning on doing.

[30:17] They were fine with it. He signed off on

[30:19] it. Bucky did. Um, and

[30:23] so I think for us it it just again I

[30:28] know this sound like this this is not a

[30:30] third world problem that we're dealing

[30:31] with here. Um but um

[30:35] it would it would be helpful for us

[30:37] because we have in our garage we have

[30:39] stuff stacked to the the even though

[30:43] it's a threec car garage it's a fairly

[30:45] that's I would I wouldn't call it a a

[30:47] huge garage but um but we would like to

[30:52] try to make you know get some of that

[30:54] stuff out. The other thing is I'm hoping

[30:56] to do a little bit of woodwork and I'd

[30:58] like to have a shop to be able to um

[31:01] just have a few like saws and a router

[31:04] and just a few things that I can maybe

[31:06] do a hobby that I like to do, but I

[31:08] right now I I can't.

[31:10] >> Did you um

[31:12] have you determined what

[31:15] Well, I mean 35 ft is pretty deep for

[31:20] garage. Aren't garages traditional at

[31:21] least 20 to 20 25? Just so you know, my

[31:25] the boat that we have, we we we have an

[31:27] old boat,

[31:28] >> but it has by the time this tongue

[31:30] sticks out, it's it's 29 ft almost 30

[31:34] ft. Most trailers that you would put in

[31:36] there will be you'll need 30 ft of

[31:40] clearance.

[31:41] >> Do you only have 30 ft of clearance in

[31:43] your existing structure?

[31:45] >> No.

[31:46] >> How deep are those? cuz it looked like

[31:47] it was three cars and that's usually 8

[31:50] to 10 ft of width for each.

[31:53] >> I I can't angle there's no way we could

[31:55] do that.

[31:56] >> Well, I can't I can't put my boat in

[31:57] there

[31:58] >> because

[31:59] >> so the way that the garage So it's it's

[32:02] it it's uh

[32:03] >> it's access. Well, first of all, it's

[32:07] access, but the second of all, the way

[32:09] the garage is built, so you have the the

[32:13] uh

[32:15] um all the heating and air conditioning

[32:17] and stuff. So, it it's here, it pops

[32:21] back out, goes in, pops back out, goes

[32:23] in. You can't actually I can't actually

[32:26] put my boat in there and get the garage

[32:28] door closed

[32:30] >> because it's too long

[32:32] >> cuz the boat's longer than the garage is.

[32:36] >> The Cuz it it looked like the garage was

[32:40] about 35 ft in length.

[32:42] >> No,

[32:44] >> I don't think it I I'll have to go

[32:46] measure it. But

[32:47] >> yeah, the boat we have is not a big

[32:48] boat. Maybe it's probably I mean we have

[32:50] a freezer there and so I can't that

[32:52] takes up a couple feet, you know, maybe

[32:54] three feet, but I I actually I I physically measured

[32:59] it trying to get figure see if I can get

[33:01] my boat in there and I can't. So I have

[33:02] our boat stored at our daughter's house

[33:04] and I have our trailer stored at our

[33:06] son's house right now.

[33:07] >> Yeah. In Saratoga Springs.

[33:09] >> Saratoga Springs, which Yeah.

[33:11] Um I

[33:13] >> think probably part of what you you you

[33:15] don't see is the house comes into the

[33:18] garage on the on that west side.

[33:20] >> West side. Yes.

[33:21] >> Yeah. So you uh

[33:23] >> I just was the only thing I was looking

[33:25] from was the um attached to the

[33:28] application. Wasn't there there was a

[33:33] site plan?

[33:34] >> Yes. that showed um it been there in and

[33:40] it that's why it was questioned because

[33:43] it it obviously has the three parking

[33:46] lots and looks like I mean parking

[33:48] spaces and looked like there was

[33:50] additional space. I didn't try to

[33:52] measure it out in ter and it was pretty

[33:54] small to see the directions and that's

[33:56] why I'm saying was asking how deep those

[33:59] are

[34:01] because as I understand it if you were

[34:03] talking about strict compliance to get

[34:05] the 20 ft if you moved the south or the

[34:10] entry of the proposed garage if you move

[34:13] that back to get the the 20 ft you'd be

[34:18] um and it

[34:21] And I couldn't tell exactly from the

[34:23] site plan how much whether the room

[34:26] whether the separation was coming off of

[34:27] which line it was coming off of. That's

[34:30] why I asked about the separation.

[34:32] Um

[34:36] because as I understand it whether that

[34:40] the the proposed structure that's back

[34:42] in the corner now and I'm looking at the

[34:44] it's called um

[34:50] it isn't called anything. Um

[34:53] well it's the drawing has a number A1.

[34:57] >> Yeah.

[34:58] >> That's that's a

[34:59] >> one of the

[35:00] >> cycl. Yeah. that has the site plan on

[35:03] it.

[35:03] >> Yeah,

[35:04] >> this is

[35:06] provided that

[35:07] >> is this you provided that?

[35:08] >> Yes.

[35:09] >> Okay. In looking at it and that's why

[35:12] I'm referring is we won't mark it

[35:13] because it's attached to the application

[35:16] >> but it has the marking on it of A1-1 in

[35:19] the right hand lower quarter of the site

[35:23] plan of the proposed site plan as I

[35:25] understand it.

[35:25] >> Yeah. that there is a jutting back as

[35:29] you are you do you have a copy of it

[35:31] where you can look at it and maybe you

[35:33] can explain.

[35:33] >> Yeah. Would you mind I can come over and

[35:35] look at yours if you like.

[35:36] >> You can one you gave me Gen has got

[35:43] » detail maybe in a little larger scale on

[35:45] it.

[35:49] » So we're looking at the same Yeah.

[35:51] Remember the same map it's the A1.1 so

[35:54] that everyone has it doing is

[35:58] the question is is this where the

[36:01] structure is so that the 6 ft we're

[36:03] talking about is just right there or is

[36:06] it back here that's

[36:10] maybe when we we need

[36:12] >> so so

[36:14] >> I mean I could see this side of your

[36:16] garage coming back in but what I can't

[36:18] see is this part right here.

[36:19] >> Yeah. So, um,

[36:21] >> cuz that looks like it's only two or

[36:23] three feet.

[36:25] >> Yeah, it's going to be So, where is

[36:27] this? The very corner of the house right

[36:29] here.

[36:29] >> Uh, that's what I'm asking.

[36:31] >> Is that where your air conditioner?

[36:34] >> Yeah, the air conditioner would be back

[36:35] here. So, it's probably it's going to be

[36:36] more like right like maybe right there.

[36:40] It's right.

[36:41] >> Okay. That's when you can't say there.

[36:42] So, you're saying in the extension of

[36:44] the line it is just under this elevation

[36:47] of there. So the house separation from a

[36:50] detached garage to the next structure is

[36:54] that this location of six or is that

[36:57] this location or what you

[36:59] >> No, it would be off the corner off the

[37:01] corner of that location

[37:02] >> of this garage to where

[37:05] >> this garage is actually going. So if this was really drawn right?

[37:13] >> Yeah, it is. But all the the builder did

[37:16] it for me.

[37:18] Um, yeah. It's

[37:22] >> Is it Is this part right here?

[37:26] >> Is that external to the house? Is that

[37:29] where your air conditioner unit is

[37:30] sitting on that on a pad there or is

[37:33] that part of your garage?

[37:35] >> I'm just looking. Let me see. Is this

[37:37] the door? These are the doors, right?

[37:38] >> No, I think

[37:39] >> those are the three

[37:42] >> three slots. I would have assumed that

[37:44] this was the the entryway, but that may

[37:47] not be right. I don't know what this

[37:48] line is. That's a where the structure

[37:50] end. Whether the structure ends here or

[37:53] whether the structure ends I'm assuming

[37:55] that the structure ends here.

[37:56] >> I think it does.

[37:59] I think I think it does. And then this

[38:02] is kind of the air conditioning right

[38:04] here.

[38:07] Because that looks like like a foot or I

[38:09] mean it looks like a very

[38:12] >> well it's not a great distance. I

[38:14] >> mean because if we're talking about that

[38:15] it has to maintain a 6ft difference.

[38:18] Where are we talking from? Dwayne

[38:20] >> I'm talking about um I think it might um

[38:29] » why not attach it? What would happen if

[38:32] you attached it? But I could, but I mean

[38:36] then it's the housing setbacks.

[38:41] » Well, that's what you're

[38:42] >> the accessory building setbacks,

[38:45] >> not the that's these are the accessory

[38:49] building setbacks here. And that's what

[38:51] he wants to

[38:52] >> so what he is is he wants to have the

[38:56] building the garage considered a

[38:58] >> an attached accessory building as

[39:01] opposed to

[39:03] >> part of the of the residential

[39:05] >> correct

[39:06] >> envelope

[39:07] >> correct

[39:10] >> but I still have we're doing that we

[39:12] need to have a fixed line of talking

[39:14] about where the separation is coming

[39:17] from. I I I actually think the

[39:18] separation is right. I think it's

[39:20] actually probably come down to here. I

[39:23] mean, you know,

[39:25] as far as scale in here, I mean, this is

[39:27] what we we drew how this one would would

[39:30] look, but I think it's going to be right

[39:31] here.

[39:32] >> So, what I'm saying, Mr. Brooks, is that

[39:34] if if a variance were to be granted and

[39:37] allowed that, it's still allowing a

[39:40] variance from here from 20 to something,

[39:43] >> right?

[39:43] >> And it will have to be measured. Wayne's

[39:45] going to have to be out there. to say,

[39:48] "Oh, here it

[39:51] is. We need to have a fixed place

[39:54] from where that would be calcul

[39:59] » and so

[40:00] >> structure."

[40:01] >> If that's this, frankly, that doesn't

[40:04] look like 6 feet to me.

[40:05] >> I I measured it this morning when I came

[40:06] out. 6 and 1/2 ft from where the where this is going to come down and

[40:11] meet my so it's my garage driveway comes

[40:15] down and we're going to it'll extend

[40:17] from the garage driveway out. So the way

[40:19] we came up I mean we we came 10 ft down

[40:23] and said okay

[40:27] I mean I I I don't know that I

[40:30] >> what she's asking is the distance from here to your house structure. Yeah.

[40:34] >> Is it from here to here? Is it from here

[40:37] to here? No,

[40:39] >> it's what?

[40:40] >> I measured from the corner.

[40:42] >> I measured the corner of my house to

[40:44] where this corner is going to where the structure is going to start

[40:48] with the driveway.

[40:49] >> Okay. So, this so this is part of your

[40:51] house structure. This little this area

[40:53] right there.

[40:54] >> Yeah. I think this kind of jets in is

[40:56] what I think this

[40:57] >> Oh, where the air conditioner is?

[40:59] >> Um, no. So, it what it does, it comes

[41:02] over and jets in and the air conditioner

[41:04] is over here. So I'm just wondering if

[41:06] this line came down far enough

[41:09] >> came too far.

[41:10] >> Oh, this line this line maybe should

[41:12] have ex

[41:14] but

[41:15] >> where's the structure is is the

[41:18] structure this line this you know solid

[41:21] line that is

[41:24] at the which would appear to be the

[41:27] north part of the garage.

[41:32] Yeah. I thought this was part of your

[41:34] house structure. This this little place

[41:37] in here.

[41:40] » It is. It is. It is.

[41:44] >> So when you walk into your garage, how

[41:45] do you enter your home? Through the

[41:48] back.

[41:48] >> Yeah.

[41:48] >> So they're What's happening here?

[41:50] >> Over here. So So well you So this you

[41:53] enter the home right here. So this is

[41:56] actually this is part of the home. This

[41:58] is where actually our furnace sits.

[42:00] >> So that's

[42:01] >> not Yeah. Our furnace and air

[42:02] conditioner.

[42:03] >> So this is this is a hard wall

[42:05] structure. Yes, it is.

[42:06] >> The the solid lines.

[42:08] >> Yeah.

[42:10] >> Which makes that like 2 ft.

[42:12] >> So it could be. So the the distance then

[42:14] from here

[42:16] >> to here

[42:16] >> to the structure is not six feet.

[42:18] >> It it Okay. So it it is it actually is I

[42:22] don't know this drawing is exactly

[42:23] >> W.

[42:25] It's from this corner where this starts

[42:27] is 6 feet. I measured it when we came

[42:29] today.

[42:32] So maybe what maybe the way this is

[42:34] drawn is this should be again because

[42:38] we'll have a scale here necessarily is that maybe this should be over this

[42:43] way just a little bit and come down to

[42:45] right here because where my garage where

[42:47] my concrete ends

[42:51] right here is where 6 ft is where is

[42:55] where this garage will start.

[42:56] Absolutely.

[42:56] >> So you're saying from the edge of the

[42:59] concrete this the extension

[43:02] >> this this concrete goes down to here.

[43:07] >> It has now a back up to here. So the

[43:09] concrete goes So are you saying that

[43:11] this is off in this 35 ft? Yeah,

[43:14] probably it's I'm guessing maybe the way

[43:17] that this should should show is that is

[43:20] this line moves in just a little bit

[43:22] because there's from the corner of the

[43:24] house assuming this is the corner of the

[43:25] house.

[43:26] >> This is 6 and 1/2 ft to where this where

[43:29] the concrete starts and where we're

[43:31] going to start to build the corner. That

[43:33] would be the corner. So if I were to

[43:34] grant this and said you are allowed to

[43:37] come within six feet of the norththeast

[43:41] corner

[43:42] >> Yes.

[43:42] >> of your property.

[43:43] >> Yes.

[43:44] >> Right there.

[43:45] >> Yep. That

[43:46] >> directly east six.

[43:48] >> Then you don't have any then that would

[43:50] give you contrary to this map we would

[43:53] talk about that it's over to excess and

[43:55] you essentially being an extension of

[43:58] the access right

[44:00] >> on the of the existing concrete right.

[44:04] Is that that's because we want to make

[44:07] sure that you

[44:07] >> I've seen eight. I've only seen eight. I

[44:09] haven't gone over and examined.

[44:15] » So, it' be 16 ft directly east

[44:19] of the norththeast

[44:23] >> corner

[44:25] >> of the home.

[44:26] >> So, that if that doesn't make it 35,

[44:29] >> that makes it 35. Well, if it doesn't

[44:31] make it 35, you have to cut it down.

[44:33] >> You have to live with it.

[44:34] >> Okay. Got it.

[44:36] >> Now, let me ask a question for you,

[44:38] Wayne.

[44:39] >> When I asked you about whether or not

[44:41] the um for me for me,

[44:46] I don't see

[44:49] any reason that you couldn't comply with

[44:51] the ordinance. You You don't There are

[44:53] reasons you would like not to, but that

[44:56] strict compliance in this case is

[44:58] possible. Let me just finish that

[45:01] thought for a minute.

[45:02] >> Okay. And for me the only way the

[45:04] justification is that if the purpose of

[45:06] that setback is for providing a for

[45:10] wildlife or for wildfire safety

[45:14] protections and you're mitigating that

[45:16] by providing them inside where you would

[45:18] not have to do that.

[45:22] That's a mitigation where you're dealing

[45:24] with the general purpose of what that

[45:26] was required for it to to do.

[45:28] >> Okay. The question I have Wayne about

[45:31] that is

[45:34] um when you talked about from this code

[45:37] and I asked you about is the suppression

[45:39] limited to the interior of the structure

[45:41] or the exterior structure of the

[45:44] property outside and I kind of got the

[45:45] impression that yes it does the interior

[45:48] but that it might have a benefit outside

[45:50] as well.

[45:52] >> Tell me about that.

[45:55] If a structure catches fire,

[45:58] our concern is that it moves through

[46:01] that structure to the outside to the

[46:03] next structure.

[46:05] So,

[46:07] and that's one of the primary reasons

[46:09] for it.

[46:09] >> And it's a risk to you because it puts

[46:11] you a home.

[46:12] >> I understand. Yeah. Understand. But but

[46:17] like

[46:21] But I just don't know. Well, there's

[46:22] nothing in there that's really should be

[46:24] creating fire, but

[46:27] yeah, you're right.

[46:27] >> And he's doing everything that you do to

[46:31] the interior of a home to

[46:34] >> help suppress fire.

[46:35] >> And let me ask but and but for that he

[46:39] but the question is there something that

[46:41] realistically that in as part of that

[46:44] suppression system that's in there can

[46:47] be available. So because my concern

[46:49] would be and as I understand the

[46:51] wildline the wildland urban fair phase I

[46:54] can't even say wildland urban

[46:56] >> interphase

[46:58] >> um is part of that of the separations is

[47:01] because of the of fire jumping from you

[47:04] know one to another which you've

[47:05] increased the risk dramatically by

[47:08] having the six feet. Is there something

[47:09] in terms of suppression that can be

[47:12] available so that if that happens that

[47:15] it would provide fire to suppress

[47:19] exterior, you know, from going here or

[47:21] there so it can't jump or that you can

[47:23] attack it more quickly.

[47:25] >> There's there's standards for exterior

[47:31] materials that's used for a house that

[47:35] has to have a certain fire rating to it.

[47:39] that's in our building code. So, they

[47:41] can't just put up any kind of lumber or

[47:44] any kind it it has to have a a

[47:49] um

[47:51] there's a designation for it that makes

[47:53] it fire resistant for the exterior

[47:57] portions of a home.

[47:59] >> Well, and that makes it

[48:00] >> and that's code. So, so that's that's

[48:03] one of the code items I was talking

[48:05] about, right? where if you throw up a a

[48:07] shed and you just put a bunch of plywood

[48:09] up there as an accessory building then

[48:13] that is then it's less

[48:14] >> it's less

[48:15] >> but and but this is much closer and it's

[48:18] like reaching from here to where Mrs.

[48:20] Briggs and so is there something that to

[48:25] mitigate the risk that it's created by you know by reducing the setbacks to

[48:33] protect to provide better protection

[48:35] >> for my own home

[48:36] >> for your own home for your home and for

[48:38] the for your home and for the garage

[48:40] because it can go either way. I mean I

[48:42] know that fires often start in kitchens

[48:44] and often aren't they often in garages

[48:47] particularly if you want to do

[48:48] woodworking.

[48:49] Um, you know, and you've got a community

[48:53] rating.

[48:54] >> You've got a community that is so

[48:56] vulnerable

[48:57] >> to fire

[48:59] >> and that's where that fire rating of

[49:01] exterior materials comes into play.

[49:04] >> But that the exterior thing is

[49:06] protecting it against fire

[49:11] coming to it. It doesn't it's still

[49:14] going to burn on the inside, right? I

[49:16] mean,

[49:16] >> not necessarily.

[49:18] I mean, Yes, but but it is it's not

[49:21] going to be like kindling on a fire.

[49:26] That piece of wood

[49:27] >> is going to

[49:29] >> it's fire. It's been treated. It's not

[49:32] just the exterior. It's that whole piece

[49:34] of wood.

[49:35] >> Is Is that material different than the

[49:39] um fire rating of the material on his

[49:41] existing home?

[49:43] >> I It shouldn't be. I would say that it's

[49:46] probably going to be better than what we

[49:47] have on our existing home. our existing

[49:49] homes almost all cedar wood. Um, and

[49:52] >> and that's been it would have been

[49:53] treated

[49:54] >> in order because that's a code issue in

[49:58] our city.

[49:59] >> And so if you've got would

[50:02] >> I'm just saying what are the things that

[50:04] he could mitigate to get him better

[50:07] protection that would be more equivalent

[50:08] to what he would get if he had to have a

[50:11] separation.

[50:12] >> Right. One thing I do think so this is

[50:16] the very corner of our house. So this is

[50:18] going all the way back. So the very

[50:20] closest part of this would be right

[50:22] there.

[50:23] >> Right there. That's absolutely I mean

[50:26] >> but you're right. But that I mean once

[50:28] there was a fire

[50:29] >> if there's a fire in here the concern

[50:32] would be your home puts your home at

[50:34] risk

[50:34] >> and and vice versa. Now the other

[50:37] question I had this you know this is

[50:39] nearly a th00 it's proposed at nearly

[50:41] a,000 square feet 35 by 35 right? Are

[50:46] there will the city code allow an um an

[50:52] what do they call an an a sex an

[50:55] accessory building unit

[50:57] >> in that property?

[50:59] >> Yes.

[51:01] >> Does that change what kind of code and

[51:04] materials would have to be required?

[51:09] » If it's within 20 feet it does.

[51:11] >> Okay.

[51:12] >> Let me come back to that again. If it's

[51:14] beyond 20 ft, then there's no there's no

[51:19] code requirements.

[51:24] » So basically, I have to build the same I

[51:26] have to use the follow follow the same

[51:28] guidelines that they build my house.

[51:31] >> Um

[51:33] because

[51:34] >> so it's a plus if somebody's building

[51:36] accessory building and they want to

[51:37] build it to code,

[51:39] then all those code elements come into

[51:42] play. Now, if it's over 20 ft, they

[51:44] don't have to. But if they want to

[51:46] preserve,

[51:47] for whatever reason the surrounding

[51:49] property, etc., they can build it to

[51:52] code. They can put the those

[51:54] fireresistant

[51:56] materials into the building.

[51:59] >> And would you be willing to to provide

[52:01] all of that kind of code compliance?

[52:04] >> When you say fire resistant, tell me

[52:06] like you mean insulation and and and I

[52:09] mean is

[52:10] >> whatever the code requires. primarily

[52:12] it's the exterior structure.

[52:14] >> So, so the HOA has some requirements

[52:18] that you know that we we complied with.

[52:22] I mean, I went through and showed them

[52:24] exactly what as far as the party board

[52:26] on the outside stuckle down three sides

[52:30] and they were they were fine with it,

[52:31] but I I I don't know enough about

[52:33] >> I'm going to say come to them. Don't go

[52:36] to your I mean

[52:37] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I

[52:39] >> well we will now because I mean I've

[52:41] been waiting I didn't want to put in

[52:43] more money till I could figure out if we

[52:44] were going to be able to do it but now

[52:46] we can do it then we're going to we're

[52:47] going to get underway

[52:48] >> because it seems to me that if if we're talking about here and

[52:53] we're talking over here

[52:56] strict compliance would allow you to

[52:58] probably build a 20ft depth that would

[53:03] probably

[53:03] >> it would like if I was to move 20 20 ft

[53:07] away from the structure

[53:08] I mean, if you pulled this back, so you

[53:10] were 20 ft that way.

[53:12] >> We We looked at

[53:14] >> You can't get there.

[53:14] >> Yeah. You You can't

[53:16] >> You can't get there.

[53:17] >> We can't.

[53:18] >> It doesn't work.

[53:19] >> So 20 ft. This looks like it's what?

[53:22] Maybe

[53:24] that's 5T. This is less than five.

[53:26] >> Yeah, that might be like

[53:30] >> three. But again, keep in mind, we did

[53:32] our best to try to figure out scale, but

[53:34] I think this needs to come in just a

[53:36] little bit because I actually guarantee

[53:39] you that it's six at least six feet away

[53:42] from the corner of the house where a

[53:44] garage would start. So,

[53:47] >> but that's right. Would be rightly

[53:49] >> if it's right there, whatever. But then

[53:51] from there, we measured over and so we

[53:53] ran a line, you know, make sure that we

[53:55] were 5 ft off of Gay's property line. We

[53:57] know we know the property line. We

[53:59] strung it.

[54:01] >> Yeah. And then we um and 10 feet off the

[54:04] back and measured this out the builder.

[54:07] >> And that gives you the 35.

[54:08] >> Give us the 35 ft. We may have to shrink

[54:10] it to 34. Um it but currently we could

[54:15] get 35 in there. The problem is that if

[54:18] you try to move it over and take the 20

[54:20] ft, so you go into our house and you got

[54:23] to go then it would really kind of look

[54:25] weird.

[54:27] But but we can't that's it's a mood

[54:29] issue because it's not big enough

[54:31] anyway.

[54:32] So

[54:36] » because

[54:40] » if you come if you leave the depth here

[54:44] but are not

[54:46] >> this is where we need the depth really

[54:50] this way

[54:50] >> you right so they need the depth but if

[54:53] you move the size so it wasn't as wide

[54:56] would it get get it back

[54:59] >> it so you know you mean to buy 20 ft.

[55:02] >> Yeah.

[55:03] >> You know, it we decided

[55:04] >> Well, cuz that was 15 ft. Is it a 15 If

[55:07] you're adding Well, but that's going

[55:09] over here.

[55:11] >> Do you add 20 ft to that? You It makes

[55:13] it so it it really doesn't work

[55:16] >> because the garage then becomes I mean,

[55:20] if I'm going to put this kind of money

[55:21] into the garage, I want to be able to

[55:23] put my like I'm hoping to put a trailer

[55:25] and a boat in there. If not, for sure, a

[55:28] boat. um and and then do some other

[55:32] stuff. It just it just shrinks it down

[55:35] to the size that does I mean we wouldn't

[55:37] well

[55:37] >> we wouldn't build shrinks it down to an

[55:39] accessory size.

[55:43] » Yeah.

[55:44] >> Um

[55:45] >> we we've had accessory buildings that

[55:47] are 60 by 60.

[55:49] >> I not in that area

[55:54] >> but the size of it is not

[55:55] >> so this is interesting I think. I don't

[55:57] know. So yeah, it doesn't matter. The

[56:00] lot across the street is a villa, which

[56:02] is weird, is a villa lot.

[56:06] So that makes their setbacks. They're

[56:08] not even maybe 10 ft from the house next

[56:12] door.

[56:13] >> Um, and that house is bigger than our

[56:16] house square footage wise

[56:18] >> and it's a villa.

[56:20] >> They apparently this was apparently a

[56:22] villa lot when they when they

[56:24] >> I don't know what that means.

[56:26] just on a bridge.

[56:27] >> Never mind.

[56:28] >> It was a different It's getting into the

[56:30] different zone probably.

[56:31] >> Yeah. Covers different zones

[56:34] across the street, but they combined

[56:36] ourses to the villas. You're right. I'm

[56:38] in the weeds.

[56:40] >> Um I know they're really fun to get

[56:42] into, but where we need to go.

[56:46] >> I have a thought if I can interject if

[56:48] you're

[56:49] >> Okay, introduce your name then.

[56:50] >> I'm Aaron Lloyd.

[56:52] >> Hello, Erin.

[56:53] >> Um hello. So if your concern is being

[56:56] closer than 20 ft in the fire between

[56:59] the two in the fire suppression system,

[57:02] it's very simple to add exterior fire

[57:07] sprinklers and have a dry whip that

[57:10] attaches to it that if a fire is coming

[57:14] from the house to the garage or the

[57:16] garage to the house

[57:18] >> that it would start either way. Dry

[57:21] whips on a fire sprinkler system are

[57:23] about $650

[57:25] a head. And if it's only at the corner,

[57:29] I'm not a fire sprinkler guy, but I do

[57:31] know you probably wouldn't need that

[57:33] many. So, it's not a huge cost,

[57:35] >> but that could bridge the gap of keeping

[57:38] the fire in contained to one

[57:41] >> area. Aaron's a builder, I might say.

[57:44] So, he's

[57:46] >> interesting knowledgeable about some of

[57:47] those things. and thanks for picking up

[57:49] on my concern and seeing if there was a

[57:51] way to solve the problem because I know

[57:54] that the p the general purpose is we've

[57:56] talked about it is to provide that kind

[58:00] of protection for the risk because you

[58:02] wouldn't want to be coming having a fire

[58:04] coming up that hill and hit your garage

[58:06] and

[58:06] >> hit your house and and take them both

[58:09] out when

[58:10] >> you would have had a chance to fight it

[58:12] had they've been separated longer.

[58:13] >> Yeah. So, it's probably going to fit

[58:15] extra e exterior materials, including

[58:17] the roof and the and your siding and all

[58:21] of that. That would be required.

[58:23] >> Just real quick, cuz I don't know, but

[58:25] is stucco on three sides and hardy board

[58:28] on is is that fire resistant at all?

[58:32] >> It's not a class A system, but it's

[58:34] better than cedar, but treated cedar is

[58:36] probably the same. Hardy board is better

[58:39] because it's cement composite.

[58:41] >> Yeah. But it is better. They're not

[58:45] going to strike in strike in amber, but

[58:47] you could do a class A fire system on

[58:50] the outside of the house.

[58:52] >> Yeah.

[58:52] >> Okay.

[58:53] >> That could meet that.

[58:54] >> Okay.

[59:03] Do you want any comments that you

[59:05] want to make on behalf of the city in

[59:06] terms of

[59:07] >> No, we're

[59:11] we don't have any objections to what

[59:14] he's proposed

[59:16] given the research that we've done on

[59:19] it.

[59:21] Um,

[59:23] so

[59:25] and with the other elements involved

[59:27] with the HOA and telling him he could do

[59:31] it and we're trying to work with him to

[59:35] bring the HOA to some degree and educate

[59:38] them to

[59:41] >> well and I appreciate the fact that I

[59:43] hope you appreciate the fact that your

[59:45] city is trying to resolve an issue that

[59:49] um someone helps kind of created for

[59:52] them.

[59:53] >> And um

[59:55] >> so property owners should deal with

[59:58] cities and then go to the HOA. I mean, I

[1:00:01] know you have to make both people happy,

[1:00:03] but

[1:00:05] your HOA has more latitude to change

[1:00:07] than your city does. And the city is

[1:00:09] doing it. I have a concern in the fact

[1:00:12] that

[1:00:14] I can't say that there's anything about

[1:00:16] this lot that cannot be complied with as

[1:00:21] under code strictly with strict

[1:00:23] compliance.

[1:00:24] However, I do see that it is

[1:00:27] complicating the fact that

[1:00:31] um what you're proposing

[1:00:35] for it really designs on it being

[1:00:38] considered an attached garage rather

[1:00:41] than part of the the house and bound by

[1:00:44] the the setbacks that would be required

[1:00:46] for the house.

[1:00:48] The mitigating factor to me is that the

[1:00:52] only reason I can justify in that or

[1:00:55] consider that is that if you bring those

[1:00:58] up to provide the kind of suppression

[1:01:00] that is require I mean it's contemplated

[1:01:02] as I see for the general purpose of

[1:01:04] suppressing and being able to deal with

[1:01:06] a fire and not allowing it to

[1:01:08] communicate between each other. And so

[1:01:11] dealing with the external tip materials

[1:01:13] in a fire safety

[1:01:15] um

[1:01:17] system that will allow suppression,

[1:01:19] exterior suppression. You called it a

[1:01:23] >> drywood.

[1:01:24] can also do it with just a regular

[1:01:26] sprinkler system that is um like a

[1:01:30] glycol based and you could actually run

[1:01:32] it all the way around

[1:01:34] >> the exterior in the eaves and it

[1:01:38] wouldn't be

[1:01:38] >> so that's how they deal with freezing is

[1:01:41] they use glycol in it

[1:01:42] >> either glycol yep or the dry whip it's

[1:01:45] in the house and it's got like a

[1:01:47] three-foot tether to the sprinkler that

[1:01:50] goes outside and the sensor is out here

[1:01:53] but It controls a valve here that if

[1:01:56] there's a fire, it kicks the valve,

[1:01:59] shoots the water up there. That way, you

[1:02:00] don't have it to have the glycol system.

[1:02:03] So, there's two ways of designing it and

[1:02:05] doing it.

[1:02:05] >> We probably have to have the glycol

[1:02:07] system because we're not going to have a

[1:02:08] heating system inside the garage.

[1:02:10] >> Yeah, glycol would be better in that

[1:02:12] case. Well, and and whether because I

[1:02:15] know that at least in the area that I

[1:02:17] live that large garages often tend to

[1:02:20] have dwelling units above it when you

[1:02:23] for good reasons. Um it's more

[1:02:25] affordable housing and we have these

[1:02:27] children that come back and

[1:02:28] grandchildren that

[1:02:30] >> that we love to have with generational

[1:02:32] living. Um

[1:02:35] and so that I can in this case consider

[1:02:40] that while it

[1:02:42] with with the condition that you submit

[1:02:47] a system whether that is a dry whip

[1:02:50] system or another system that will be

[1:02:52] required by the fire department to be

[1:02:54] approved that will provide the ability

[1:02:57] for providing fire suppression outside

[1:02:59] of the exteriors to protect both

[1:03:02] buildings from uh fire, you know, moving

[1:03:06] either way,

[1:03:07] >> right?

[1:03:08] >> That

[1:03:09] I believe that that will advance the

[1:03:12] general purpose as well as deal with

[1:03:15] your particular

[1:03:17] issue that's involved

[1:03:20] and provide you the protection that would be

[1:03:25] accommodated by the setback if the

[1:03:27] setback were there.

[1:03:29] Um I I mean the last thing I want to do

[1:03:32] is create a situation where it would

[1:03:35] have my home burn down. So I so as we go

[1:03:39] as we started to go through this and I

[1:03:40] realized oh my gosh we got to do a

[1:03:42] variance. We we actually stopped kind of

[1:03:44] going further until we had this

[1:03:47] >> but but you're but I don't have any

[1:03:50] problem with that because we want to

[1:03:51] protect our main you know

[1:03:53] >> the other thing is is that I would put a

[1:03:55] waiver that you would proceed to the

[1:03:57] root

[1:03:58] Sorry, I'm not sure what that's doing.

[1:04:01] That be a waiver of any um liability

[1:04:03] against the city against as a property

[1:04:06] on the lean for anybody for anybody

[1:04:09] owning the home now or grabbed your lean

[1:04:12] that wave immunity

[1:04:15] if in fact there's a fire that occurs

[1:04:17] there because you've enhanced the the

[1:04:20] hazard.

[1:04:21] Um,

[1:04:23] and and I don't mean to wave your

[1:04:26] rights, but I mean you're you're asking

[1:04:27] the city to do something that will

[1:04:30] increase the risk in the event of a

[1:04:33] firefighting that will implicate your

[1:04:35] own home. And it isn't appropriate in my

[1:04:38] opinion to have a turnaround and claim

[1:04:40] the city. Well, you know, my fire my

[1:04:43] house burned down because the fire came

[1:04:45] up the backside and it went to the

[1:04:46] garage and it went to the house and it's

[1:04:48] your fault for letting me put and it may

[1:04:51] not be you. It may be whoever you sell

[1:04:53] it to,

[1:04:53] >> right? Understand that.

[1:04:55] >> And that that um that that's a waiver of

[1:04:58] that claim

[1:05:00] um that will be record.

[1:05:03] But

[1:05:03] >> wouldn't that apply to anybody that

[1:05:06] builds a home in there then? I mean I

[1:05:07] mean you build a home in there and the

[1:05:09] fire for example you're going to build a

[1:05:11] lot that home is not more than 10 ft

[1:05:14] from the other home. So what happens if

[1:05:16] that home starts on fire I mean

[1:05:20] and then moves to the other home I mean

[1:05:22] aren't we talking about the same the

[1:05:23] same kind of thing? There's always

[1:05:25] liability attached to anything that you

[1:05:29] do. Yeah,

[1:05:29] >> there is. But you're creating the li

[1:05:31] you're you're adding to the liability,

[1:05:34] >> right? I understand what you're saying.

[1:05:36] >> Risk

[1:05:38] understand what you're saying.

[1:05:39] >> Just to add a little bit, I don't want

[1:05:42] to

[1:05:43] add confusion. There's other lots in

[1:05:46] that same area that have less setbacks,

[1:05:51] distance. So, and that's the point that

[1:05:54] Mr. Briggs is making uh he's building

[1:05:56] across the street from a house that has

[1:05:59] less setback than what his house does

[1:06:02] because it's a different zone.

[1:06:04] >> Well, but

[1:06:04] >> but the the threat is is essentially the

[1:06:07] same. It's it's not any greater than what his home

[1:06:14] has.

[1:06:16] But I I I understand. I know what you're

[1:06:18] saying.

[1:06:19] >> I I and so do I. And I and I don't thing

[1:06:21] is I don't want to get sued because you know we built this garage

[1:06:26] and for some reason it it it catches

[1:06:29] fire and it doesn't just get my house it

[1:06:30] gets somebody else's house. It it would

[1:06:32] be very unlikely because of the

[1:06:34] separation but

[1:06:35] >> well and that's what the separation is

[1:06:37] intended to do is to slow that down. So

[1:06:39] by having your suppression in my thinking is that that's compensating

[1:06:48] for the um for the lack of the

[1:06:50] separation by having the suppression and

[1:06:52] it will be you know

[1:06:54] >> makes sense makes good sense

[1:06:56] >> provides that to you and u because

[1:06:58] otherwise

[1:06:59] >> you know otherwise you could comply but

[1:07:02] you can't get what you want

[1:07:05] but in getting what you want it can pose

[1:07:07] a certain risk and things and So if you

[1:07:09] can mitigate that in my mind

[1:07:11] >> to compensate for that and to provide it

[1:07:14] then

[1:07:14] >> and and so that means your exterior

[1:07:16] materials would need and they probably

[1:07:18] would need to be approved by the fire

[1:07:20] chief.

[1:07:20] >> Okay, being um the suppression the

[1:07:23] outside exterior protect suppression as

[1:07:26] capability as well as whatever would be

[1:07:29] required on the inside as if it were

[1:07:32] considered part of your residence. So, I

[1:07:34] guess the question I have, and this is a

[1:07:35] builder question, but what kinds of

[1:07:37] materials on the exterior of your house

[1:07:40] are I mean, I don't know what the fire

[1:07:42] chief's going to say. I have no idea

[1:07:44] what the fire chief's going to say, but

[1:07:45] >> Well, there's a building code that's

[1:07:47] that that that

[1:07:50] says what the rating has to be.

[1:07:52] >> Okay. All right. I'll have to look into

[1:07:54] that.

[1:07:54] >> Things that you can do because I do

[1:07:57] build in moo areas.

[1:08:00] um half inch or 5/8 um exterior grade

[1:08:04] drywall underneath the siding.

[1:08:06] >> Okay. So, we're using 5/8 inch

[1:08:09] sheetrock.

[1:08:10] >> Yeah. But on the outside. So, you'd have

[1:08:12] to use um they have exterior grade.

[1:08:15] They're made for fire. You can put that

[1:08:17] on the outside underneath your sighting.

[1:08:21] That would give you a class A system.

[1:08:24] You could use a metal sighting, too.

[1:08:25] That could get you there. They have an

[1:08:27] underllayment for Wooi. have to use a

[1:08:29] fire retardant underllayment. You could

[1:08:32] I'm sure there's a system that you could

[1:08:33] run that vertically, too.

[1:08:36] >> But yeah, there's tons of options that I'm sure the fire chief knows even

[1:08:41] better than me. But yeah, those are a

[1:08:42] few.

[1:08:45] >> Um,

[1:08:49] so

[1:08:53] I will do a written order

[1:08:55] of this being a

[1:08:59] But we would

[1:09:02] grant the variance for the detached

[1:09:05] garage to be considered as a detached

[1:09:07] garage and maintain the existing

[1:09:10] separation or the the required setbacks

[1:09:13] on the north and the east side but allow

[1:09:16] it

[1:09:16] >> the existing building setbacks

[1:09:18] >> for the garage structure.

[1:09:20] >> Yes. Um and with the with the variance

[1:09:24] of the reducing the 20 foot setback to

[1:09:30] a line extending from the existing

[1:09:33] concrete is that

[1:09:38] » okay so we have a place that's

[1:09:41] >> Yep.

[1:09:42] >> Um not to go any closer than that and

[1:09:44] going so if that's not 35 ft you don't

[1:09:48] get 35 ft you get from

[1:09:50] >> Got it. concrete in place

[1:09:52] >> and um but that that is conditioned upon

[1:09:55] you

[1:09:57] meeting with the I mean complying with

[1:09:59] what the fire chief will require for

[1:10:02] bringing that the garage is constructed

[1:10:07] as and meets the codes as if it were

[1:10:10] part of the residence.

[1:10:11] >> Okay. And that it provides a um

[1:10:15] suppression system

[1:10:18] for exterior

[1:10:21] well exterior suppression water superior

[1:10:25] >> um to pro to protect

[1:10:29] both the home and

[1:10:32] the garage.

[1:10:33] >> Okay.

[1:10:34] >> Is that

[1:10:34] >> so would that Yeah. I guess the question

[1:10:36] I have is would that exterior

[1:10:37] suppression then

[1:10:40] I relate to just the side of the house

[1:10:43] where is closest to our house? Are you

[1:10:45] talking about the entire facil the

[1:10:47] entire building?

[1:10:50] >> I' I'd suggest you don't the entire

[1:10:52] building all the way around it.

[1:10:54] >> Okay. Okay.

[1:10:56] >> I think you I would leave that to the

[1:10:59] fire chief. I would think that it would

[1:11:00] be at least these two facades.

[1:11:02] >> Yeah. At least the at least the north

[1:11:04] and the

[1:11:05] >> and the east.

[1:11:06] >> In the east.

[1:11:06] >> Yeah.

[1:11:07] >> Um

[1:11:13] » or the west cuz that's in our side.

[1:11:14] Okay, I got it.

[1:11:15] >> The west is um

[1:11:17] >> west is on our side, but

[1:11:20] >> well the west is downside, but you don't

[1:11:21] have trees there and you've got large

[1:11:23] separations,

[1:11:24] >> right? Right.

[1:11:25] >> So I would leave that to the fire chief,

[1:11:27] but it would include at least this

[1:11:28] portion to provide the equivalent time

[1:11:33] >> as of the separation being there.

[1:11:35] >> Okay.

[1:11:37] >> In lie of the separate basically

[1:11:39] providing it in li of the separation.

[1:11:41] >> The last thing I want to do is have a

[1:11:43] fire that would would affect our home or

[1:11:45] anybody else's home. So I'm totally good

[1:11:47] with that.

[1:11:49] See, and and I don't have a problem if

[1:11:52] you're detached garages in that's having

[1:11:53] an ABU in it. But that's neither here nor there.

[1:12:00] >> Um,

[1:12:01] >> and someday when you sell a boat and

[1:12:03] sell a trailer, then maybe you turn it

[1:12:05] into an ADU.

[1:12:07] >> Well, is it two story or one? I figured

[1:12:09] it probably

[1:12:11] one story. It'll be high, but it'll be

[1:12:13] one story. So, you get a garage in.

[1:12:15] >> I would say gosh, take it up another

[1:12:18] that our kids are not coming back to

[1:12:21] live.

[1:12:21] >> No, we did that already.

[1:12:24] >> We have 22 grandchildren. So,

[1:12:26] >> so am I.

[1:12:27] >> Do you really?

[1:12:27] >> You have to.

[1:12:28] >> Good for you.

[1:12:29] >> You get it then.

[1:12:30] >> I get it. But they come back.

[1:12:34] >> Like you'll have grandkids back and

[1:12:35] forth.

[1:12:36] >> Yeah. And And you want them back,

[1:12:37] >> you know. Well, I'm just kidding. I But

[1:12:39] nobody's going to be living in the

[1:12:40] garage cuz there's not going to be music

[1:12:42] for that. Well,

[1:12:45] >> you know, you never say never.

[1:12:47] >> Well, that's true.

[1:12:48] >> Anyway, any other questions?

[1:12:52] >> Okay.

[1:12:52] >> Do you have any questions?

[1:12:56] » And is it all Is it all right if we keep

[1:12:58] this?

[1:12:59] >> Is it okay for us to keep this?

[1:13:00] >> Can they keep this?

[1:13:03] >> Yeah, you can keep that. I have I have

[1:13:05] another And I have the bigger copy of

[1:13:07] it. Oh, you have the bigger copy of it,

[1:13:10] don't you? I'm going to put the X right

[1:13:11] there on the mark of where the

[1:13:13] concrete's going.

[1:13:15] >> Then I need this. Well, I need one of

[1:13:17] those back. So,

[1:13:18] >> she she can give you this one. I mean,

[1:13:22] the one that was attached to the

[1:13:23] application she could give you back if

[1:13:25] you don't need the big one.

[1:13:26] >> Okay. Well, I I don't think I

[1:13:28] >> The big one is a copy. That's one you

[1:13:30] gave me. And it's a copy. I think

[1:13:32] something else should be

[1:13:34] >> or don't we take it to Jelly and Do you

[1:13:36] have a copier? You can have it. I I know

[1:13:39] where it's at if I have to come back and

[1:13:40] get it.

[1:13:40] >> Well, yeah. Show to Wayne because Wayne

[1:13:42] will have access to it.

[1:13:44] >> Yeah.

[1:13:46] >> But the X marks the spot.

[1:13:48] >> Okay.

[1:13:53] » Yeah. Well, sorry.

[1:13:54] >> Hope remembering your name.

[1:13:57] >> Yeah.

[1:13:58] >> This is our first round of ever doing

[1:14:00] anything like this. So,

[1:14:01] >> well, these are

[1:14:02] >> sending my musual things because they're

[1:14:05] usually really good reasons for why

[1:14:07] cities enact ordinances

[1:14:09] >> and these guys don't have the ability

[1:14:11] not to.

[1:14:14] >> No, I

[1:14:15] >> they've been great. Honestly, I haven't

[1:14:17] had no

[1:14:18] >> We live on Nebo Circle by

[1:14:20] >> Once we learned that that this wasn't

[1:14:22] going to work cuz we actually thought it

[1:14:24] was going to and then we found out,

[1:14:25] well, you have to do these setbacks.

[1:14:27] He's like, "Okay, then we got to figure

[1:14:30] this out if we can." You know,

[1:14:31] >> I will be construction. So, I used to

[1:14:33] work

[1:14:34] >> without without the compensating thing.

[1:14:36] I don't

[1:14:36] >> actually started I wouldn't have gotten

[1:14:38] my recommendation.

[1:14:39] >> I don't work here now for a company

[1:14:41] called Jackson.

[1:14:42] >> Honestly, it's protecting protecting us

[1:14:44] anyway. So,

[1:14:45] >> beautiful.

[1:14:47] >> Yeah. It's protecting your larger home

[1:14:49] and your investment that you kind of

[1:14:50] lose

[1:14:50] >> which is sizable

[1:14:53] >> which you wouldn't want to lose for

[1:14:56] >> a garage or a boat because those are

[1:14:57] both insurable. Well, I guess everything

[1:14:59] else, but you don't want to

[1:15:00] >> You know what? It's funny because I

[1:15:02] mean,

[1:15:03] >> yes.

[1:15:04] >> Yeah, there's big boat and and the

[1:15:07] trailer. It's

[1:15:08] >> We actually own that.

[1:15:09] >> It's allowing us to get a little bit

[1:15:11] more operating room inside of our garage

[1:15:13] cuz it's pretty packed right now.

[1:15:16] >> And I can replace it's not a big third

[1:15:18] world problem,

[1:15:19] >> but

[1:15:22] it makes it nicer for us. I know

[1:15:28] » if you do something.

[1:15:30] >> Appreciate your time. Is that anything

[1:15:31] else on this?

[1:15:33] >> Exactly.

[1:15:36] >> You got it. Will you mark that as

[1:15:37] exhibit A? Just a little.

[1:15:45] He's been down to the house. He had the

[1:15:48] crazy suggestion to build it on the

[1:15:49] other side. And I told him he's crazy.

[1:15:52] It won't work on the other side.

[1:15:54] >> You say there'd be more room on the

[1:15:55] other side, but that slope would be a

[1:15:56] bugger.

[1:15:57] >> That slope would be

[1:16:00] >> Excuse me. It would not I wouldn't even

[1:16:02] >> I didn't I didn't send it to you. I'll

[1:16:04] let you

[1:16:05] >> I was just asking him about it.

[1:16:09] >> What's your number?

[1:16:11] >> Sorry, it took so long. No,

[1:16:16] » 1279.

[1:16:18] And

[1:16:19] >> that's that's very

[1:16:24] » Thank you. Might need your advice.

[1:16:26] >> Um

[1:16:28] good.

[1:16:29] >> Thank you.

[1:16:29] >> Okay.

[1:16:32] >> Thank you very much.

[1:16:33] >> Yeah. Good to meet you. Good luck to

[1:16:34] you.

[1:16:36] >> Have a good day. Good to see you.

[1:16:38] >> Yeah. Good to meet you. Take care.

[1:16:43] » Okay.

[1:16:45] The record should show and I'm assuming

[1:16:47] that the record is still going that the

[1:16:50] Briggs matter has been resolved and then

[1:16:53] I will present a order.

[1:16:55] >> Okay.

[1:16:56] >> For that to the city um

[1:17:02] you've had counsel before that I had

[1:17:04] submitted it to. Do I need to you?

[1:17:06] >> No, you can submit it back to Jody.

[1:17:08] >> Back to Jody just for review.

[1:17:10] >> Okay.

[1:17:13] The next the record should show

[1:17:15] that the next matter is going to be held

[1:17:17] as required by notice that has been set

[1:17:20] for this day. It is an application by

[1:17:24] Aaron Lloyd

[1:17:27] regarding a property at

[1:17:32] course

[1:17:34] at 105 Bridger Circle.

[1:17:37] Um

[1:17:39] and Mr. Mr. Mr. Lloyd is here and is

[1:17:42] present as the application and Mr. Wayne

[1:17:45] Franson is here on behalf of the city.

[1:17:47] Um, you've been here, Mr. Lloyd, so

[1:17:49] you've seen how we've done it before and

[1:17:51] so we will ask Mr. Franson to give us

[1:17:54] kind of the city's position on what's

[1:17:58] happening with the hill and or your

[1:18:00] property. Can either one of you,

[1:18:04] since the order that I will be drafting

[1:18:06] has to be recorded or will be end up

[1:18:08] being recorded, do you know the lot

[1:18:11] number and what subdivision that your

[1:18:13] property is besides its um

[1:18:17] address?

[1:18:18] >> It's lot 53.

[1:18:20] I don't know the name of the subdivision

[1:18:22] up here.

[1:18:23] >> Do you know the plant?

[1:18:24] >> Um I don't know the plant name either.

[1:18:26] It's a Thousand Oaks. When will you give

[1:18:28] me will you give me the law or the legal

[1:18:30] descriptions for both of the properties?

[1:18:32] >> Okay.

[1:18:34] >> As per the serial number that legal

[1:18:36] description.

[1:18:38] >> Yes. The parcel number that I'll have.

[1:18:40] Yeah. Parcel number or the usually it's

[1:18:43] lot five of a certain certain

[1:18:44] subdivision with a parcel number.

[1:18:46] >> Okay.

[1:18:56] And the record should reflect as I have

[1:18:58] indicated that I have driven by the

[1:19:01] property this morning. I was not with

[1:19:03] anyone else but just visually went to

[1:19:06] see it so that I was more familiar with

[1:19:09] the sighting of the property.

[1:19:13] Okay, Mr. Francen.

[1:19:16] Okay, a little bit of background to uh

[1:19:20] help you put this in perspective, too.

[1:19:23] Um, when Mr. Lloyd built his home, there

[1:19:28] were a number of issues that he was

[1:19:30] faced with. Uh, one was the slope of his

[1:19:34] driveway.

[1:19:37] And in addition to the two issues that

[1:19:41] uh um he's requesting a variance on

[1:19:45] uh the the setback for the driveway from

[1:19:50] the property line and the um sizing of

[1:19:55] the water culvert that runs under the

[1:19:59] driveway.

[1:20:01] Um,

[1:20:02] when it came time for him to get, and

[1:20:06] you can correct me when if I mispake

[1:20:08] here, the time to get the the occupancy

[1:20:12] permit,

[1:20:14] uh, a check of the driveway showed that

[1:20:17] we exceeded the the slope limit per our

[1:20:21] city ordinance. Our ordinance allows the

[1:20:26] city council

[1:20:28] to give a variance on the driveway slope

[1:20:34] and he went to the city council and they

[1:20:37] gave a variance to him

[1:20:41] >> on the driveway slope.

[1:20:43] >> So the variance So the slope exceeds

[1:20:47] >> 15%.

[1:20:49] >> So did he change the slope? Don't. They

[1:20:52] gave him a variance to leave the slope

[1:20:55] as it was with there was a condition

[1:20:58] there that he do some back stopping

[1:21:02] along portions of the driveway.

[1:21:05] Um putting mini

[1:21:09] what do we call those?

[1:21:10] >> Those are the barriers that I saw at the

[1:21:12] barriers.

[1:21:13] >> They're directly and

[1:21:16] >> parallel to the entrance to the garages.

[1:21:19] They're back,

[1:21:20] >> but but the variance was only for the

[1:21:22] top of the driveway between because we

[1:21:25] have a lower garage and an upper garage.

[1:21:28] >> The variance was only to the upper

[1:21:30] section.

[1:21:31] >> Yeah, cuz he he complied on the bottom

[1:21:33] one,

[1:21:33] >> but the back I only saw one driveway or

[1:21:37] >> there's only one driveway, but as you go

[1:21:39] up, you see one garage from the front,

[1:21:41] but if you keep going, there's a garage

[1:21:43] on the side stacked on top of each

[1:21:45] other.

[1:21:46] >> Okay. So, I didn't see that. So, but the

[1:21:48] extension into the setback I is what I

[1:21:51] saw with where it's been graded up and

[1:21:55] um grades been changed and increased

[1:21:57] with the the retaining wall system

[1:21:59] >> that was required by the city council

[1:22:03] and the varian

[1:22:04] >> as part of this as part of the slope.

[1:22:07] >> Yes.

[1:22:08] >> Yep. But the variance was only granted

[1:22:12] if the lower half of the garage or lower

[1:22:14] half of the driveway could meet

[1:22:16] >> could comply so that fire like in the in

[1:22:21] the case of an ambulance it could get up

[1:22:23] to the lower garage in the case of

[1:22:26] emergency. Okay. So, as I understand it,

[1:22:29] you're saying from your street level,

[1:22:31] the driveway going up to where you turn

[1:22:34] on on that part where you have the

[1:22:37] retaining wall back in um

[1:22:42] that that does that complies and that's

[1:22:44] under 15% or that meets the 15%.

[1:22:47] >> The bottom half does. Yes.

[1:22:49] >> From the that from the most most north

[1:22:52] garage

[1:22:54] >> closest to the street.

[1:22:55] >> Yep. Correct. and your variance only

[1:22:57] dealt with the back portion

[1:22:59] >> correct that.

[1:23:00] >> So I say that as background because it

[1:23:03] affects his variance now that he's

[1:23:06] requesting for the setback from the

[1:23:09] property line.

[1:23:10] >> So to do that you had to go elongate the

[1:23:13] driveway to get around.

[1:23:14] >> In that right

[1:23:15] >> that's exactly right. when we we tried

[1:23:18] to hit the less than 15% on the lower

[1:23:20] half and could not do it without going

[1:23:24] into that offset

[1:23:28] area that wasn't wasn't allowed. So to

[1:23:31] get the lower half under 15% we had to

[1:23:34] elongate the driveway into that zone.

[1:23:40] » So that's that's what was done. It was

[1:23:43] done without city approval, but

[1:23:47] >> the whole thing was constructed as is.

[1:23:50] Now, when you caught it, was the lower

[1:23:53] driveway already constructed?

[1:23:55] >> Yes.

[1:23:55] >> No.

[1:23:57] >> When when the kind when the time came

[1:23:59] for your

[1:24:01] occupancy permit?

[1:24:02] >> Yeah. And it when you caught it, I mean

[1:24:04] >> when I caught it was still road base,

[1:24:07] but then because of the winter, I

[1:24:08] hurried and asphalt it so that it could

[1:24:10] be cleared cuz it couldn't be cleared as

[1:24:14] it was.

[1:24:16] >> So I did asphalt it without permission.

[1:24:19] >> Okay.

[1:24:19] >> Without the approval. No.

[1:24:21] >> So without the grades being approved.

[1:24:23] >> Yeah.

[1:24:25] >> Okay. The grade

[1:24:28] was reviewed before it was asphalted but

[1:24:32] not approved because of this issue with

[1:24:35] the two angles. Yes.

[1:24:41] » So

[1:24:43] um he had to extend the driveway out.

[1:24:46] >> So did you So did you recontour then?

[1:24:50] >> I recontoured before the asphalt. So I

[1:24:53] met with the city twice. Chris on site.

[1:24:56] I think it was Chris.

[1:24:58] And because he was tr we the city's been

[1:25:01] very he's the city's been so good to

[1:25:04] work with. And so Chris came out and

[1:25:06] said, "Let me see what I can do to help

[1:25:08] you get within your 15%."

[1:25:11] And looking at it, reviewing it with me,

[1:25:13] he's like, "There's nothing you can do

[1:25:16] to hit your 15% unless you elongate the

[1:25:19] driveway.

[1:25:25] Okay.

[1:25:26] >> So, he took the driveway further to the

[1:25:29] left. I just use that instead of north,

[1:25:32] south, east, west. As you're facing the

[1:25:34] house,

[1:25:35] >> the west.

[1:25:36] >> Okay.

[1:25:37] >> No, it's to the east.

[1:25:40] >> Closer. I went further to the east.

[1:25:42] >> Mine turned around. Maybe I am turned

[1:25:45] facing.

[1:25:46] >> But it is to the left if you're looking

[1:25:48] from the street. It's to the west. to

[1:25:52] the left.

[1:25:53] >> East to the left.

[1:25:54] >> That's that's the that's the side that

[1:25:57] is of issue. Okay.

[1:25:59] >> The normal setback is 20 ft a driveway

[1:26:01] from the property line

[1:26:03] >> and it goes how far in?

[1:26:06] >> It goes to like 11 ft

[1:26:09] >> 10 ft or so from the property line.

[1:26:12] >> Yep. Because as I saw the the driveway

[1:26:16] going up, there's a big retaining wall

[1:26:18] where I mean where you build up the um

[1:26:21] the side and I assume the property line

[1:26:24] is somewhere on the other side of that

[1:26:27] closer to the other house.

[1:26:28] >> Yeah, it's way off of that cuz the lot

[1:26:30] comes in at an angle.

[1:26:32] >> Okay.

[1:26:32] >> So where that retaining wall is and then

[1:26:34] it starts to curve.

[1:26:37] It's I can show you on this if you'd

[1:26:39] like.

[1:26:39] >> Okay. Yeah, that would be this looks

[1:26:41] like a relatively what I'm looking at is

[1:26:45] the um site plan that was marked.

[1:26:50] >> Okay, that's the proposed

[1:26:52] >> this was the proposed.

[1:26:53] >> So the retaining walls that you saw were

[1:26:56] right there. So this comes in at an

[1:26:59] angle.

[1:27:00] So this is Wait, let me turn it how

[1:27:05] Okay, here's the house.

[1:27:07] Okay.

[1:27:08] >> Yeah. Okay.

[1:27:10] And so which way is north?

[1:27:12] >> This way.

[1:27:13] >> Okay.

[1:27:16] So when I was talking west here,

[1:27:18] this is the retaining wall.

[1:27:19] >> Retaining wall. Okay. I thought you were

[1:27:20] talking those retaining walls.

[1:27:22] >> No, I'm talking about this retaining

[1:27:23] wall that is very Yes.

[1:27:25] >> That stands out.

[1:27:27] >> Yeah. This is This has your 20 ft

[1:27:29] needed.

[1:27:31] It's this corner right here that we

[1:27:34] changed from. Here's the original

[1:27:38] that it came. We had our 20 ft here.

[1:27:44] » So from this point to that point, but

[1:27:47] now we've elongated the bottom of the

[1:27:49] driveway that way to hit our 20 our less

[1:27:52] than 15% here.

[1:27:53] >> Okay. That elongated. I gotten you. And

[1:27:56] this one doesn't show, but there's a

[1:27:58] Didn't I see a trailer pad with a

[1:28:00] trailer back?

[1:28:01] >> Yeah. Little

[1:28:02] >> behind the utility trailer up here.

[1:28:03] >> Yeah.

[1:28:04] >> Yep.

[1:28:04] >> Okay. But you're saying there's an Will

[1:28:07] you show me on the site plan where the

[1:28:10] second

[1:28:11] >> Yes.

[1:28:11] >> one is.

[1:28:13] >> So this is their garages are stacked on

[1:28:15] top of each other. So the lower garage

[1:28:17] you enter from down here

[1:28:20] and then the upper garage you keep

[1:28:21] driving and you enter on top on the side

[1:28:23] here.

[1:28:24] >> Okay. I didn't.

[1:28:25] >> So the variance that the city council

[1:28:28] gave me was from here to here that

[1:28:31] because we just don't have the distance

[1:28:33] to get the grade needed. So the variance

[1:28:37] was issued for that area and we put the guard rails up for this curve that

[1:28:42] they were concerned about.

[1:28:43] >> So that on this plan the original that ch this is the guardrail you put

[1:28:49] up, isn't it? Yep.

[1:28:50] >> So this is the guard rail. So this is

[1:28:52] the portion where

[1:28:55] >> yeah from here down because they could

[1:28:58] drive an ambulance up and into this

[1:29:00] lower section and then go up the stairs

[1:29:03] to the front door

[1:29:03] >> and that's where the bottom garage is.

[1:29:05] >> And your variance was the slope right

[1:29:07] through there.

[1:29:08] >> Yep. From Yeah. that corner.

[1:29:11] >> Okay. And then you get great

[1:29:14] >> and then here you're fine again. It's

[1:29:15] just from literally right there to right

[1:29:18] there.

[1:29:19] And even with the elongation, but you

[1:29:22] were given that variance and then the

[1:29:23] elongation just made

[1:29:25] >> the elongation helped down here, but it

[1:29:28] didn't help here cuz here's your pinch.

[1:29:31] to get your 15% here. It actually had to

[1:29:33] make this steeper

[1:29:35] because I couldn't elongate this whole

[1:29:37] thing out

[1:29:50] question. Um,

[1:29:54] obviously Mr. Lloyd, you're you're

[1:29:59] an inexperienced builder.

[1:30:01] >> Yeah.

[1:30:02] >> What happened with your grades being off

[1:30:04] so far?

[1:30:06] >> Um I sat down with this city originally

[1:30:09] and we thought we were all concerned

[1:30:10] about it. Um and we thought we barely

[1:30:14] had the room to hit the needed 15%.

[1:30:20] Um I had two different meetings in here

[1:30:22] with

[1:30:25] >> Corbett. Corbett and he we both agreed

[1:30:29] that it was super close, but we thought

[1:30:31] we could do it. And then the house was

[1:30:34] placed as drawn and it just didn't work

[1:30:37] out like the math and the drawing said

[1:30:42] it could.

[1:30:43] So, hindsight, I wish we would have

[1:30:46] moved the house down, but it's super

[1:30:50] tricky because your narrowest portion is

[1:30:52] at the front of the lot where your

[1:30:55] driveway has to go.

[1:30:57] >> So, I don't know if there's any way cuz

[1:30:59] I've thought this through in my head a

[1:31:01] thousand times. What if I pulled the

[1:31:02] house back? What if I move the house

[1:31:04] forward? But the problem is it's the

[1:31:07] grade at the front. So, I don't know

[1:31:08] that in any case it actually fixed it

[1:31:11] cuz it you I don't know how you could

[1:31:15] have done it and hit the the 15% but

[1:31:18] that's

[1:31:19] >> other than putting the house bearing it

[1:31:22] >> at the at the very bottom. I guess you

[1:31:25] could would have been the only

[1:31:27] >> taking it straight in but then you've

[1:31:29] got that other part right there. So, the

[1:31:32] >> it's super steep at the front. So, I

[1:31:34] don't know. And it gets I I don't It

[1:31:38] doesn't It flattens off a little bit at

[1:31:40] the back, but not much.

[1:31:44] It's just a really steep lot that's

[1:31:45] narrow.

[1:31:48] And the math said it worked originally

[1:31:50] and it didn't.

[1:31:53] It was we thought it, you know, from

[1:31:55] that point on.

[1:31:58] >> Um

[1:32:05] in the comparison there are these dots.

[1:32:11] I'm assuming that they're dealing with

[1:32:12] the retaining wells.

[1:32:14] >> Yes.

[1:32:16] >> There those didn't change. Is that

[1:32:18] right?

[1:32:18] >> Correct. That did not change.

[1:32:20] >> That did not change.

[1:32:20] >> No. So in comparing the original that

[1:32:24] you were permitted with with what the

[1:32:27] asbuilt

[1:32:29] um

[1:32:30] the only difference then is that as

[1:32:34] was dealing with this steepness in the

[1:32:36] variation right in this in the corner

[1:32:38] right by that would be the north

[1:32:41] west side of your house.

[1:32:43] >> Yep.

[1:32:46] It

[1:32:46] >> was just that part. It's

[1:32:48] >> that part. Okay.

[1:32:55] But

[1:32:57] >> if we wouldn't have elongated it here,

[1:33:00] then we wouldn't have hit our 15% here

[1:33:03] either because you didn't have enough

[1:33:04] room.

[1:33:07] >> Well, even if you um the lot the lot is

[1:33:11] not a traditional well a rectangle. It's

[1:33:15] >> correct.

[1:33:15] >> A little bit

[1:33:16] >> pie shaped a little bit of a pie because

[1:33:18] it's a The circle

[1:33:20] >> is is a little bit wider

[1:33:23] >> in the back, but not a great deal. What?

[1:33:25] Maybe 10 ft difference or less.

[1:33:28] >> Well, with the ankle, I actually think

[1:33:29] it's like 50 ft or

[1:33:31] >> No, I mean from here to here.

[1:33:32] >> Oh,

[1:33:33] >> that if you can that

[1:33:35] >> Yeah, that's 20 ft from there to there.

[1:33:37] So, yeah, maybe

[1:33:39] 15 10 to 15t.

[1:33:42] >> Yeah. So, it's it's

[1:33:43] >> in like the extreme end maybe 20. And

[1:33:48] >> how how how wide is your lot? Okay. Can

[1:33:52] you tell? I can

[1:33:55] >> see if you guys can see it.

[1:33:58] >> Your eyes may be better.

[1:33:59] >> 124 ft.96.

[1:34:03] » Yep. And it's 139 ft at the back.

[1:34:07] >> Okay. So, it picks up 50.

[1:34:08] >> Yep.

[1:34:09] >> In width. It's getting there. One side

[1:34:12] or the other. And the other side looks

[1:34:13] like it

[1:34:15] is just as steep or was

[1:34:17] >> Yeah, the whole lot is just super steep.

[1:34:21] >> Now are these changes in the grade that

[1:34:23] change your these are the afterbuilt

[1:34:26] >> not the original grades, right?

[1:34:28] >> This is okay.

[1:34:29] >> Yep. The original grades are pretty I

[1:34:32] mean through here this is all we haven't

[1:34:34] touched any of this.

[1:34:36] had to be brought up. This is more

[1:34:40] flat originally, but had to be built up

[1:34:43] like 7 8 ft there for the driveway. But

[1:34:46] this is stayed all natural. That's the

[1:34:48] existing trees

[1:34:49] >> cuz it looks like it was maybe 10 ft up

[1:34:51] above. I mean, your proper at the where that wall ends.

[1:34:57] >> It looks like it's up maybe

[1:35:00] >> it's two layers of four. So 8 ft high.

[1:35:02] >> 8 ft. 8 ft high. That sits at

[1:35:05] >> correct.

[1:35:06] >> Okay.

[1:35:08] Um I

[1:35:11] Okay, tell me about the covert.

[1:35:13] >> Okay, so the covert we have utility

[1:35:17] running right through right in the

[1:35:19] middle of the ditch down here is for the

[1:35:23] um fiber cable. It's actually in the

[1:35:26] ditch. Um

[1:35:27] >> the ditch the ditch right in front of

[1:35:29] your property

[1:35:32] that I saw.

[1:35:33] >> Correct. It's

[1:35:34] >> is not ditched. It was had stuff in it,

[1:35:37] but it was more of a ditch to the east.

[1:35:42] >> Yeah. There's a section here, but this

[1:35:44] is cover from like right here to right

[1:35:46] here.

[1:35:46] >> Okay.

[1:35:47] >> And then it turns into a ditch the rest

[1:35:48] of

[1:35:49] >> it. Goes back into some of it under

[1:35:51] snow.

[1:35:51] >> Correct. And this section right over

[1:35:53] here, there's a box for the fiber cable

[1:35:56] that runs into the culde-sac that's

[1:35:58] super shallow.

[1:36:00] So when we were going to place that

[1:36:02] covert, we were right over top of that

[1:36:04] fiber line. And so me being I I mean I

[1:36:09] should have stopped at that point,

[1:36:11] right? But um and and I I take

[1:36:15] accountability and if I have to rip it

[1:36:17] out, it's it's on me. But at the same

[1:36:20] time, I don't I don't want to cut into

[1:36:22] that fiber utility because I have to pay

[1:36:25] for it if I cut into it, right? because

[1:36:28] Blue Stake has been out there and marked

[1:36:29] it and is right where I'm digging. And

[1:36:32] so

[1:36:34] this fiber line runs underneath there

[1:36:36] and I'm at the back of the culde-sac and

[1:36:38] I'm doing the math. I'm like, "Oh, I can

[1:36:40] get a 12 in."

[1:36:43] >> Yeah, but you said you were going to put

[1:36:45] a 15 in.

[1:36:46] >> Correct. So, I had to go 3 in smaller in

[1:36:48] order to not hit that fiber line.

[1:36:50] >> Except my understanding is you went from

[1:36:52] a 15 to a 10, not a 12. We went out and

[1:36:55] measured it and he said it was a 10.

[1:36:58] >> It is a 10 and 12 on the outside, 10 on

[1:37:01] the inside.

[1:37:01] >> Okay, let me let me just follow up.

[1:37:03] Wayne is my from reading the culvert was

[1:37:09] not only not the 15, but it was not the

[1:37:13] minimum 12 that would be required.

[1:37:15] >> That's what Ted indicated.

[1:37:17] >> Is that that's my understanding? Okay.

[1:37:20] We had drawn a 15 originally.

[1:37:24] The the code does allow us to have a 12.

[1:37:27] >> Okay. And you got 10.

[1:37:28] >> And we had we I did a 10.

[1:37:31] >> Yep.

[1:37:33] >> And you're saying you did the 10 to

[1:37:34] preserve the fiber optic.

[1:37:36] >> Correct.

[1:37:37] and in and and this is can be in my

[1:37:41] wrong thinking, but sitting at the back

[1:37:44] of the culde-sac and talking with my

[1:37:47] neighbors, there's no water ever in the

[1:37:49] ditch. In fact, if you look at the

[1:37:52] ditches around my house, they're not

[1:37:53] even ditches. In fact, talking to the

[1:37:55] Urkin Bracks that are right across the

[1:37:57] street,

[1:37:58] there is literally no ditch

[1:38:01] around. Like we reshaped the ditches

[1:38:04] around my house, but if you look at the

[1:38:08] rest of the area that there are no

[1:38:09] ditches there and there's no water that

[1:38:11] runs there cuz we're at the top of the

[1:38:13] culde-sac. Now, as you get down on these

[1:38:15] roads, these ditches, I notice there's

[1:38:18] always water in them in a rainstorm

[1:38:20] because it's collecting water from the

[1:38:22] streets around, but I'm at the top of

[1:38:24] the culde-sac and there is nothing ever

[1:38:27] there. And I cleaned mine out last week

[1:38:30] and there were some leaves that had

[1:38:31] gathered and the snow plows hit this

[1:38:34] corner and they drug all the dirt and

[1:38:37] rock when they cleared the snow the four

[1:38:39] times we had to clear snow this year and

[1:38:41] buried this ditch again. And last

[1:38:43] weekend I dug it back out cuz I wanted

[1:38:45] to have it looking nice for you to look

[1:38:47] at to kind of see.

[1:38:48] >> We knew I'd come

[1:38:49] >> right and we didn't anticipate the snow

[1:38:52] that we still need. So it is what it is.

[1:38:54] But in my mind, I'm like, "Okay, there's

[1:38:57] no water that runs in this ditch, but

[1:39:01] let's get as big of a covert as I can."

[1:39:03] And that's where my failure is, right?

[1:39:05] Is and I I understand it's my failure.

[1:39:09] So,

[1:39:11] >> and let me tell you, I just came from

[1:39:13] the Northshore and Kawaii,

[1:39:15] >> okay?

[1:39:16] >> I haven't I don't go there frequently,

[1:39:19] but I was there 5 years ago. I saw

[1:39:21] streams and ditches that I had never

[1:39:24] noticed before because they're

[1:39:25] overflowing.

[1:39:26] >> Yes.

[1:39:26] >> Because of this unusual rain.

[1:39:28] >> Yeah.

[1:39:29] >> And obviously your drainage is the

[1:39:33] general plan for the drainage is a

[1:39:35] minimum of 12.

[1:39:36] >> Yes. I have a tough time

[1:39:39] dealing with that even because you're on

[1:39:43] a steep lot which means that the

[1:39:45] property you know storm water and drain

[1:39:48] with that going on is going to come down

[1:39:50] steeper.

[1:39:52] >> It doesn't collect there though.

[1:39:54] >> Well, you're in a drought. We've been in

[1:39:57] unusual drought and I just

[1:40:00] >> I totally get your point. Could there be

[1:40:02] a series of storms that

[1:40:06] do

[1:40:08] that could require that? I guess there

[1:40:10] could in talking to my neighbors, they

[1:40:12] haven't seen it in the 20 years,

[1:40:14] >> right? And but I totally get there

[1:40:16] that's only 20 years. Yes.

[1:40:18] >> Right. Um, I would say the math if my

[1:40:22] neighbors at the bottom of the culde-sac

[1:40:24] that are four houses down that are

[1:40:26] collecting water from eight properties,

[1:40:29] if their minimum is a 12-in cover, that

[1:40:33] the math would say the me at the very

[1:40:35] top, the minimum should not be the same

[1:40:38] because I'm only collecting water from

[1:40:41] two lots, not all the culde-sac. And the

[1:40:44] 12-in minimum is the entire culde-sac.

[1:40:48] But I totally understand and I'm not

[1:40:50] going to die on that hill. If I have to

[1:40:52] tear up the bottom to make people happy,

[1:40:55] then I will tear it up. I don't think

[1:40:57] it's needed and I might hit the

[1:41:00] utilities, which will cost me a lot of

[1:41:02] money to hit utilities I don't want to

[1:41:05] hit, but I plan on living the rest of my

[1:41:08] life in Woodland Hills, and I'm not

[1:41:09] going to die on the hill of a 12-in

[1:41:11] covert versus a 10- in. You know, Wayne

[1:41:14] is a neighbor of mine. I care about the

[1:41:16] people I live by, too. And that's why I

[1:41:19] did talk to neighbors and

[1:41:22] >> ask people that had lived here longer

[1:41:24] than me. But I totally get your side. I understand it.

[1:41:33] I mean that I I haven't I mean your

[1:41:37] property

[1:41:39] where the where the culvert is there's

[1:41:41] nothing unusual going around with with

[1:41:44] where the culvert is. You're just saying

[1:41:46] that the culvert was came was came after

[1:41:49] the fiber.

[1:41:50] >> Um

[1:41:51] >> yeah. So the fiber runs right underneath

[1:41:55] that area. Well, that's the ement where

[1:41:57] it's supposed to be, right? Is is

[1:41:59] >> Well, we

[1:42:01] we've had some issues with this Comcast

[1:42:04] who came around and was doing

[1:42:07] >> um

[1:42:09] >> the fiber And is that the one you're

[1:42:13] talking about, Aaron, or are you talking

[1:42:15] about Utopia when they

[1:42:16] >> I think it was Utopia

[1:42:17] >> where they buried their first ones.

[1:42:20] >> Comcast came through last fall and dug

[1:42:23] and drilled. Comcast has not buried

[1:42:25] their cable the way they should have.

[1:42:27] They're they're

[1:42:28] >> But that's not this cable.

[1:42:29] >> No, but I wasn't sure.

[1:42:31] >> They drilled that after this cover was

[1:42:33] put in. They drilled it last fall. Okay.

[1:42:35] >> I don't know where that is cuz they just

[1:42:37] they drilled it after it was done.

[1:42:39] >> They a lot of places didn't go deep

[1:42:41] enough.

[1:42:42] >> Utopia wasn't deep either.

[1:42:44] >> And so the Utopia was one cable that was

[1:42:47] laid probably 10 years ago or or so. But

[1:42:51] you're connecting into a a ditch that's

[1:42:55] been there longer, right?

[1:42:58] >> Um, no. I had to create that ditch when

[1:43:00] we moved in.

[1:43:02] >> When the when the streets are made,

[1:43:05] doesn't

[1:43:06] >> Yes. And this is what happens often

[1:43:09] times with time. Those ditches

[1:43:13] deteriorate.

[1:43:14] the um people often times are pulling

[1:43:18] off to the side of the road and destroy

[1:43:21] the ditches. So, it's not unusual for a

[1:43:25] homeowner or a new homeowner to come and find a ditch is really not a ditch

[1:43:34] in front of their home. It's been it's

[1:43:36] just because it's wear and tear and

[1:43:39] deteriorated snow plows uh pushing snow

[1:43:42] into it and sometimes

[1:43:45] um not destroying the ditch but but

[1:43:48] making it uh disrepair and so forth.

[1:43:53] >> So in Woodland Hills it's the

[1:43:55] responsibility of the property owner to

[1:43:58] maintain the ditch.

[1:43:59] >> It is okay.

[1:44:02] Unless the city is the one doing the

[1:44:04] damage to it, then

[1:44:06] >> the city will

[1:44:07] >> or whoever is working in the ditch or

[1:44:08] using these.

[1:44:09] >> Yeah.

[1:44:10] >> And I when I did the ditch,

[1:44:13] um I mean it the ditch has to go around

[1:44:16] that box, that utility box, and I dug to

[1:44:19] the bottom of the utility box. I dug it

[1:44:21] as deep as I could to, you know, make it

[1:44:24] a good ditch. But it is as deep as it

[1:44:27] can go. And it does comply with a 12

[1:44:29] inch deep

[1:44:31] needed ditch in that area. But

[1:44:34] >> no, you're that's not what I understand.

[1:44:38] >> I'm not sure of the deepness of the

[1:44:40] ditches. I I can't remember what the

[1:44:43] should be.

[1:44:46] >> It's it's a critical thing to me. So you

[1:44:49] proposed a 15-in ditch mean.

[1:44:54] >> You didn't build that. The ordinance

[1:44:56] would have required a 12 inch.

[1:44:59] Still requires a 12 inch.

[1:45:01] >> Correct.

[1:45:02] >> And you put in a 10 inch.

[1:45:04] >> Correct.

[1:45:05] >> But we we would have

[1:45:08] required the 15 inch, but the site plan

[1:45:11] showed

[1:45:12] even though our ordinance said 12

[1:45:15] because

[1:45:15] >> we have looked at that as a a change.

[1:45:19] And it's very likely that if Aaron

[1:45:24] contacted the city and asked him about

[1:45:26] that, we would have told him a 15-in

[1:45:28] culvert goes there. And that may have

[1:45:30] been why he put then on the site plan a

[1:45:34] 15 in.

[1:45:35] >> You're saying it's good and that's what

[1:45:36] the city was happy with. The 15-in.

[1:45:39] >> Yes. Yep. Correct. I

[1:45:40] >> I I understand that it was it may not

[1:45:42] have been more it may was maybe more

[1:45:44] than minimum, but still appropriate for

[1:45:47] collecting the water off of the site.

[1:45:49] question I have is he's just said that

[1:45:52] he put the 10 inch down where the 12

[1:45:55] inch

[1:45:57] >> the 10 in is 12 in.

[1:46:01] >> 12 is 14 or something.

[1:46:03] >> Uh 12 is 14. It it gets to a point where

[1:46:07] it's the get thicker but yeah.

[1:46:09] >> Okay.

[1:46:10] >> Correct. So

[1:46:12] the only because

[1:46:15] going there and looking at it, it

[1:46:17] appears that there weren't there should

[1:46:19] be no problems with him strictly

[1:46:21] complying

[1:46:23] by putting it in.

[1:46:24] >> If he'd have put a 12 1/2 in cover in

[1:46:26] there, we wouldn't be here today on that

[1:46:29] matter because that's what the

[1:46:32] >> the code would require. color require

[1:46:36] >> and and I did not to tell you how tight

[1:46:39] everything was. I actually did not get

[1:46:43] any subgrade underneath my asphalt at

[1:46:47] the cover. The asphalt is sitting right

[1:46:49] on the covert in that small section the

[1:46:53] top of the circle because I couldn't go

[1:46:56] any further. Like there is no you should

[1:46:59] have like four inches of rope bas or 4

[1:47:02] inch over.

[1:47:02] >> I could not even do that. So I have a

[1:47:05] problem where at some point it's

[1:47:06] probably the asphalt's going to crack

[1:47:08] but I could not even get because

[1:47:11] the driveway the base of the driveway

[1:47:14] you can't be 15%.

[1:47:16] It has to there's a section there where

[1:47:18] it has to be lower so the snow plows

[1:47:21] don't hit it. And so it has to be lower

[1:47:25] and so I could not go any higher and and

[1:47:31] I would be out of compliance on the

[1:47:32] angle of the driveway. So I had to hit

[1:47:34] that I think it's 7% in the first 10 ft

[1:47:37] or something like that.

[1:47:38] >> Yeah. You hit it.

[1:47:39] >> I hit it. But what required to hit it

[1:47:42] was a 10-in cover and sitting right the

[1:47:46] asphalt sitting on the cover

[1:47:49] because of that fiber line that runs

[1:47:51] underneath it is so shallow.

[1:47:54] >> There is something

[1:47:54] >> that's the only reason why I couldn't

[1:47:56] hit it is cuz that fiber line and if I

[1:47:58] would have hit the fiber line, cut the

[1:48:00] fiber line, yes, I could have hit it.

[1:48:03] But then I'm in now I'm paying Utopia

[1:48:07] thousands of dollars because I hid their

[1:48:09] >> Why is the fiber line

[1:48:12] where the cover ought to be?

[1:48:15] >> Cuz they're both in the same ement.

[1:48:19] » I don't know.

[1:48:21] >> Shouldn't be right.

[1:48:22] >> No, it shouldn't. Where should the where

[1:48:24] should the

[1:48:25] >> should be off to the side still in the

[1:48:27] right ofway the fiber line but it it

[1:48:31] shouldn't be in an area where a ditch is designated

[1:48:37] to be

[1:48:41] » I wonder we have

[1:48:44] the fiber companies come in and kind of

[1:48:46] do what they please.

[1:48:48] Uh

[1:48:49] >> that should create more work for you.

[1:48:50] >> It does.

[1:48:52] And they and they pay you for it.

[1:48:55] >> Uh yeah,

[1:48:57] >> they do.

[1:48:58] >> Yeah.

[1:48:59] >> So, um is that is it in a pro? But is

[1:49:04] that going to be the case?

[1:49:06] The problem that's going to be created

[1:49:08] as I see it and from hearing Aaron is if

[1:49:13] he takes that out and puts a 15 in or

[1:49:16] even a 12 1/2 inch culver

[1:49:19] then

[1:49:21] he's going to he's not going to be able

[1:49:24] to meet that um that 7% if that's what

[1:49:28] it is and it's somewhere in that area of

[1:49:32] downs slope to prevent and snow plows

[1:49:37] from

[1:49:40] hitting that and it'll even it'll make

[1:49:43] it worse.

[1:49:47] » So,

[1:49:49] if he complies,

[1:49:52] he's got to remove the fiber optics that

[1:49:55] are in the wrong place.

[1:49:59] Well, we'd have to have a fiber company

[1:50:01] come out and probably do that because it

[1:50:04] they'll probably need to be cut and

[1:50:06] moved

[1:50:08] and that takes expertise to do that.

[1:50:11] >> But

[1:50:12] >> because there's not enough give in that

[1:50:14] line.

[1:50:14] >> I know. Okay. But let me ask Okay, let

[1:50:17] me go through that scenario. You're

[1:50:19] saying the property the problem was

[1:50:21] called caused by the fiber octave lines

[1:50:24] being in the wrong place.

[1:50:28] the city could require the fiber optics

[1:50:31] to come in and to move it and to get it

[1:50:33] in the right place. Correct.

[1:50:37] >> You'd think yes.

[1:50:42] Sometimes they're not very cooperative.

[1:50:44] >> Well,

[1:50:46] >> but yes, they didn't do what they were

[1:50:48] supposed to do.

[1:50:49] >> So, it seems to me that you create two

[1:50:51] problems and he's kind of in the middle

[1:50:52] of a rock and a hard spot. You either

[1:50:54] solve your drainage problem by having a

[1:50:57] culvert that's required in the code,

[1:51:00] which he said he was going to do and

[1:51:02] which he didn't do because of the

[1:51:04] problem caused by the fiber optics. So

[1:51:06] you got a 10-in line up there for a

[1:51:08] drain surface drainage that feed that

[1:51:11] should be 12

[1:51:14] and he can't put in the 12 without the

[1:51:17] fiber optic coming out. Is that fair

[1:51:21] analysis?

[1:51:23] So, either you screw your drainage or

[1:51:24] you screw your street.

[1:51:28] >> What's

[1:51:28] >> And now we have the new I don't know. I

[1:51:32] do know that they drilled underneath and

[1:51:35] ran the new line

[1:51:37] >> underneath the culvert.

[1:51:38] >> Well, but I don't know how far they ran

[1:51:40] it underneath it.

[1:51:41] >> Did they go underneath the cover or just

[1:51:43] So, you're saying the culver is the

[1:51:45] surface paving is just right on top of

[1:51:47] the cover.

[1:51:48] >> So, they had to go down.

[1:51:50] >> They had to go down. I don't know how

[1:51:52] far they went down. The new company that

[1:51:53] came in last fall.

[1:51:54] >> That's Comcast.

[1:51:55] >> Comcast. So, I don't know where that is.

[1:51:57] But that's underneath there now as well

[1:52:01] cuz they go in that same area. I wish I

[1:52:04] had a picture of that. But

[1:52:06] >> why aren't they in the same line? Cuz

[1:52:08] they don't have to be, right? I guess

[1:52:10] >> they're different companies.

[1:52:11] >> Well, I know they're different

[1:52:12] companies, but

[1:52:13] >> yeah, they do their own. Yeah, they I

[1:52:16] mean it's one fiber,

[1:52:16] >> but they have But your problem

[1:52:20] seems to me is that in order to get your

[1:52:23] drainage, you've got to He can't solve

[1:52:26] the problem with the fiber optics. City

[1:52:29] can

[1:52:30] by requiring them if they're in the

[1:52:31] wrong place.

[1:52:37] So

[1:52:39] which which hazard is more

[1:52:44] or it seems to me that the surface

[1:52:46] drainage is almost more important to

[1:52:49] carry the load that you think that it's

[1:52:50] going to carry or that you're building

[1:52:53] for.

[1:52:56] >> I I don't think so. You don't pick up at

[1:52:59] the top of the culde-sacs.

[1:53:01] >> You're picking up everything from

[1:53:03] everything that's uphill above you.

[1:53:05] >> And there's nothing uphill. I'm at the

[1:53:06] end of a culde-sac.

[1:53:07] >> You're at the end of this culde-sac, but

[1:53:09] behind you there's property and there

[1:53:11] are other houses up uphill from you,

[1:53:14] >> but they've got their own

[1:53:15] >> They have their own drainage,

[1:53:17] >> drenches, trench ditches, and

[1:53:19] >> you're on a mountain side that all the

[1:53:21] reason why none of it hits the ditch is

[1:53:23] because it's all trees. It doesn't

[1:53:26] >> So, what's what's east of what's back

[1:53:29] behind you? Isn't there another house?

[1:53:31] Aren't there other houses and other lots

[1:53:33] that

[1:53:35] >> There's two houses in the culde-sac.

[1:53:37] >> No, I saw your houses around the

[1:53:38] culde-sac. I'm saying

[1:53:40] >> south. Yeah, I'm saying you're ups

[1:53:42] slope. What's up slope above you?

[1:53:45] >> There's one road above there.

[1:53:47] >> Rid your circle, isn't it?

[1:53:48] >> No, he's

[1:53:50] circle. What? The one that loops around.

[1:53:53] I'm not sure what road that is.

[1:54:01] But I don't think the drainage is the

[1:54:03] issue.

[1:54:04] >> Each kind of each culac takes care of

[1:54:06] its own

[1:54:08] or each street takes care of its own

[1:54:11] drainage. That's that's what it's

[1:54:13] designed.

[1:54:13] >> Well, but realistically, you're going

[1:54:15] to,

[1:54:17] you know, unfortunately gravity says

[1:54:20] otherwise. You're gonna take care of

[1:54:22] everything that's uphill from you

[1:54:24] because it's not going to drain the

[1:54:26] other way until you get up to a slope

[1:54:27] and goes the other way.

[1:54:28] >> There's no way to collect that in order

[1:54:30] to

[1:54:31] >> No, it'll come down and it's going to

[1:54:32] come down

[1:54:33] >> in a mudslide.

[1:54:35] >> It's going to come down. It's going to

[1:54:37] come down yours now very steep sides

[1:54:41] um to get to a culvert where it's

[1:54:43] supposed to be taken away.

[1:54:45] >> And some of that is okay. Our ordinance

[1:54:48] says that you can't in building a home,

[1:54:52] you can't create more of a runoff than

[1:54:55] you had before on that lot. In other

[1:54:59] words, by putting in a driveway and

[1:55:01] other

[1:55:02] >> cement things around there. You've got

[1:55:05] to retain that some way on your lot.

[1:55:08] >> This one doesn't retain anything and we

[1:55:10] don't know what happens uphill,

[1:55:13] >> but that's what our ordinance says.

[1:55:15] >> Okay. And you

[1:55:18] I don't think at the top of the

[1:55:20] >> calculated the

[1:55:22] engineers

[1:55:23] >> engineers calculated the 15 a 15 inch

[1:55:26] was what was

[1:55:27] >> and they

[1:55:27] >> no a 12 in minimum 12 in in a culdeac

[1:55:30] >> no wait a minute wait a minute wait a

[1:55:31] minute the ordinance requires 12 but I'm

[1:55:34] saying who you said somebody did

[1:55:37] calculations for this site plan to

[1:55:39] determine

[1:55:40] >> we found that 12 in is not sufficient

[1:55:43] >> because itauses messed up.

[1:55:47] So that's why we tell everybody 15in

[1:55:49] culvert even though the ordinance may

[1:55:52] say 12 or 12 in. Now if they put a 12-in

[1:55:56] culbert in per ordinance and and don't

[1:56:00] have any interaction with us, fine.

[1:56:02] That's what the ordinance calls for and

[1:56:05] they comply. But when they ask, we say,

[1:56:08] >> don't they always have to ask? you you

[1:56:10] kind of control building codes and

[1:56:13] driveways and culverts.

[1:56:17] » Well, at the end of the construction,

[1:56:20] that's that's when that's getting done.

[1:56:23] And and we do. And like Erin said,

[1:56:26] there's a there's an overburden

[1:56:28] required, three or 4 inch overburden

[1:56:30] required on those kinds of culverts

[1:56:33] >> to protect the cover.

[1:56:34] >> Yes. And sometimes that doesn't even

[1:56:39] >> because there's so many building in a m

[1:56:42] on a mountain side has so many different

[1:56:45] nuances.

[1:56:47] Um as somebody that has lived in that

[1:56:50] home for a year and a half. Um

[1:56:53] I can tell you that the most critical

[1:56:55] one is the slope of the driveway to for

[1:56:58] safety.

[1:56:59] >> I don't disagree with that.

[1:57:01] >> So that would that's the first thing to

[1:57:02] make sure is right. And I think every

[1:57:04] yeah, everybody agrees there.

[1:57:06] >> And I I don't have a problem with I see

[1:57:09] that there are because of the not that

[1:57:12] your your property is similar to the

[1:57:14] others in the sense that you've got

[1:57:15] steep slopes.

[1:57:16] >> Yeah.

[1:57:17] >> Getting back. So that the variance I

[1:57:19] don't have a problem with. I can see

[1:57:21] that that

[1:57:23] while I think you should have gotten it

[1:57:25] permitted and done the correct way the

[1:57:27] first time.

[1:57:28] >> Yeah.

[1:57:28] >> And I appreciate the fact that you're a

[1:57:30] solve the problem guy, but sometimes you

[1:57:33] need to

[1:57:34] >> Yeah.

[1:57:35] >> to get approval instead of asking for

[1:57:37] permission.

[1:57:38] >> Yeah.

[1:57:38] >> Um which it seems to me the implication

[1:57:42] is what is the impact is is on the um

[1:57:48] the drainage

[1:57:52] a thought.

[1:57:54] If the city can get Utopia to come out

[1:57:59] and relocate that line or bury it

[1:58:01] deeper,

[1:58:04] would you be okay then with putting in

[1:58:07] the 15-in or potentially 12 1/2 in

[1:58:11] culvert? If we get them to come out and

[1:58:14] do that work,

[1:58:15] >> Yeah. it just when they do it, they're

[1:58:17] going to tear up that whole thing. Well,

[1:58:19] they they will they'll have but you'd

[1:58:22] want it torn out if you're going to

[1:58:23] replace in a culvert. It won't make much

[1:58:25] difference that way.

[1:58:26] >> The difference is when I tear it out,

[1:58:29] they won't like they I mean they're

[1:58:31] contracted employees that'll come and

[1:58:34] tear I mean

[1:58:36] I don't know. We we know the difference

[1:58:39] of somebody carefully tearing it out

[1:58:41] versus somebody who doesn't.

[1:58:44] That would be my concern is if they do

[1:58:46] that it they just tear up that whole

[1:58:48] front which creates a bigger problem.

[1:58:51] That's typically what happens. But

[1:58:54] >> I just throwing

[1:58:56] >> throwing an idea out here.

[1:58:57] >> I mean that would be that would be the

[1:59:00] only way in my that I could see to do

[1:59:03] it. I don't think that it's necessary.

[1:59:08] But if you guys feel that it is then

[1:59:10] that's how it would have to be solved.

[1:59:11] And and that's another issue, too.

[1:59:13] >> Yeah.

[1:59:14] >> Erin, uh, and I understand that is is a

[1:59:18] 12-in culvert. It may not be ideal, but

[1:59:22] will it work?

[1:59:25] >> Yeah.

[1:59:25] >> Well, I don't know. I that's not that's out of

[1:59:30] my wheelhouse. an engineer would and and

[1:59:34] there'd need to be an assessment as a

[1:59:37] further review to see if if uh if 10-in

[1:59:42] culvert beef would be okay there. Again,

[1:59:45] maybe not ideal, but acceptable.

[1:59:51] » Maybe that's something I have to do is

[1:59:53] have an engineer come and look at it.

[1:59:59] Um

[2:00:02] to me to me the circumstance in this one

[2:00:05] is that

[2:00:07] it's the unusual circumstance is that

[2:00:10] the your inability to strictly comply

[2:00:13] was not you're doing is the city's in

[2:00:16] the the improper placement of the

[2:00:18] existing facil the existing fiber optics

[2:00:21] and you don't have any control over

[2:00:23] that. Um, however, if the city if the

[2:00:28] city

[2:00:30] gets the gets that corrected,

[2:00:34] then

[2:00:35] is 12 months adequate or it needs to be

[2:00:38] 6 months?

[2:00:39] >> It should be this year.

[2:00:41] >> No, I'm just saying if you get the city,

[2:00:43] if the city gets that done,

[2:00:46] >> then you would have and they give you

[2:00:48] notice that you've got six months.

[2:00:51] >> I think it would have to be all done at

[2:00:53] the same time.

[2:00:54] depending on how

[2:00:55] >> you want it done because if he's got to

[2:00:56] if they come in tear that out, he's

[2:00:59] going to want to get it replaced pretty

[2:01:00] soon.

[2:01:01] >> And the other six months is next winter.

[2:01:04] So really, it's we get it done between

[2:01:07] now and October or else we don't get it

[2:01:10] done right this year.

[2:01:13] >> And I I can't imagine not us not being

[2:01:15] able to get Utopia out here,

[2:01:17] >> right?

[2:01:18] >> You know, within a month or 60 days or

[2:01:20] whatever. Now, if Utopia can drill it

[2:01:22] down that way, they don't, then it would

[2:01:25] be way more beneficial cuz then they

[2:01:28] aren't tearing everything up. They may

[2:01:30] want to they may want to under drill it

[2:01:32] anyway. But they're going to they're not

[2:01:35] just going to tear up the the covert

[2:01:40] whereas the covert is. They'll tear up

[2:01:41] that whole ditch and doing that cuz the

[2:01:45] their box is halfway down. It's like 50

[2:01:48] feet from the driveway in the ditch. So,

[2:01:52] they'll tear up all that.

[2:01:54] So, it's not going to be it's it's a big

[2:01:57] job,

[2:01:59] but it it's the reality of it, right?

[2:02:03] If it was right next to the driveway, I

[2:02:05] think you could do it cleaner, but it's

[2:02:06] all the way down on the west side of the

[2:02:08] lot.

[2:02:10] So, yeah.

[2:02:23] Um, let me let me just

[2:02:24] >> Yeah, there's some

[2:02:26] >> Okay,

[2:02:26] >> another added moving parts here that

[2:02:30] >> well become part of the equation.

[2:02:32] >> They have um and so at this point I

[2:02:38] the ground the ground doesn't justify

[2:02:40] it. What justifies in your situation is

[2:02:44] I mean you saw the slope and and I'm not

[2:02:46] talking about the slope now. I'm just

[2:02:48] talking about the culvert.

[2:02:49] >> Um because the culvert impacts you know

[2:02:51] the drainage system for the whole street

[2:02:53] and and property north of you. And so

[2:02:58] but you can't solve it.

[2:03:01] >> And so if

[2:03:04] I'm going to give you I'm not going to

[2:03:06] I'm going to give you how can we can we

[2:03:09] put it

[2:03:12] I don't know that a temporary

[2:03:15] variance is what we're talking about

[2:03:16] because if they can solve the problem, I

[2:03:19] want you to solve the problem.

[2:03:21] >> Yeah.

[2:03:23] >> So, I'm not sure that I'm I don't So,

[2:03:26] I'm not granting a variance in the sense

[2:03:27] that

[2:03:29] you know that it's okay, but it's a I

[2:03:32] guess a conditional variance. We'll call

[2:03:35] it a conditional variance.

[2:03:37] And it is conditioned that it can stay

[2:03:40] that way unless the city can

[2:03:45] get the um fiber optics

[2:03:49] to be replaced that would allow the

[2:03:53] installation of the appropriate cover.

[2:03:56] Um, and then if that happens, then you

[2:03:59] get the you need get from him an

[2:04:02] engineer drawing for that site plan of

[2:04:04] whether to determine whether it's the

[2:04:06] 12-in minimum now or the 15in that was

[2:04:10] proposed.

[2:04:11] >> Okay.

[2:04:13] >> Does that

[2:04:16] make sense?

[2:04:18] because I think in your particular case

[2:04:21] it's the fiber optics

[2:04:24] and you can't solve it but they can but

[2:04:27] they're in the wrong place. if the if

[2:04:29] they were in the right place and that

[2:04:30] was the only thing then I don't think I

[2:04:33] could go there but

[2:04:36] um

[2:04:36] >> I mean I don't know because you only

[2:04:39] have a 10-ft I mean I don't know that

[2:04:42] they're in the wrong place but I don't

[2:04:44] because you have in that easement you

[2:04:47] already have gas which we hit the gas

[2:04:50] line when I did that because they had a

[2:04:53] gas line that wasn't marked correctly

[2:04:56] that you have power and you have fiber

[2:05:01] and now you have another fiber line and

[2:05:03] you cannot have your power and gas have

[2:05:06] to be so far from each other and your

[2:05:09] gas and your fiber have to be so far

[2:05:11] from each other because they interfere

[2:05:13] with one another. So I don't know in

[2:05:15] that 10 or 12t I can't remember if it's

[2:05:18] 10 or 12t eastma but

[2:05:19] >> it's probably 12t. So in that case, like

[2:05:24] you only have

[2:05:26] so much space. You can't put it in that

[2:05:28] whole 12T section cuz you have to

[2:05:30] accommodate gas and you can't

[2:05:31] accommodate power. So I'm not 100% sure

[2:05:36] that fiber is in the wrong spot. It may

[2:05:39] have been where they could run it, but

[2:05:41] it is in the wrong spot for putting in

[2:05:44] that culvert for sure. But I'm just

[2:05:46] saying that if a fiber company comes out

[2:05:50] like and you tell them to move it 12

[2:05:52] inches down and they hit the gas line

[2:05:56] cuz it's in that exact same location cuz

[2:05:59] I hit the gas line

[2:06:02] and it wasn't marked that way. It wasn't

[2:06:04] supposed to be that way. But because the

[2:06:06] gas line was put in so long ago, they

[2:06:08] didn't have their paperwork right. And

[2:06:09] so I didn't even though I called in blue

[2:06:12] stakes and they marked it. It wasn't

[2:06:14] marked there and I hit it cuz it was an

[2:06:17] old line. I'm just saying that I don't

[2:06:20] know why that fiber is there. If there's

[2:06:23] a reason why, but it is in the way of

[2:06:25] the covert, but there are so many other

[2:06:28] utilities running in there. I don't know

[2:06:31] where they're going to run it, but it is

[2:06:32] worth a phone call to say, can you guys

[2:06:35] move this? Like I don't know. Yeah.

[2:06:37] Well, it seems from

[2:06:41] my perspective

[2:06:44] that

[2:06:47] to require him

[2:06:50] to put in

[2:06:52] to replace the existing 10 with another

[2:06:54] 12 increases his slope and screws up the

[2:06:58] street. Is that fair? I mean, if he

[2:07:02] doesn't change and go down farther, if

[2:07:04] you took out what's there, and put in

[2:07:06] what was supposed to be there, the 15,

[2:07:08] that's going to raise you what, three to

[2:07:10] five inches of

[2:07:11] >> 5 in with the extra stuff. That's going

[2:07:16] to screw up

[2:07:19] street and the driveway.

[2:07:22] >> Yeah. The other issues with the snow

[2:07:24] plowing

[2:07:25] >> and the snow plowing

[2:07:28] and that would raise it. and so that he

[2:07:32] doesn't have the ability to go lower

[2:07:33] unless you guys figure out what the

[2:07:36] problems are to solve. But if you solve

[2:07:39] that, then I think he's got to

[2:07:42] comply and do it. So, does that sound

[2:07:46] like a conditional variance? And if they

[2:07:47] sit on it, you get to sit on yours. And

[2:07:50] if they don't sit on it, you're going to

[2:07:51] have to act.

[2:07:53] >> Okay. Yeah. I mean,

[2:07:55] >> and then I think

[2:07:59] we need to look at a economy of scale

[2:08:03] too. Is that something that the city

[2:08:06] >> wants to move forward with or just leave

[2:08:09] it as it is? Is it

[2:08:13] >> that well

[2:08:14] >> worth?

[2:08:15] >> And that's what I'm saying is it's

[2:08:16] conditional. If they're not willing to

[2:08:18] solve the problem that you can't solve

[2:08:21] in light of the impact on the general

[2:08:24] public,

[2:08:25] then

[2:08:27] you get the conditional variance. But if

[2:08:30] they solve a problem

[2:08:33] that should have been problem solved had

[2:08:36] you not solved a problem on your own,

[2:08:38] then um

[2:08:40] >> Yeah, makes sense.

[2:08:42] >> Yeah, I think that's fair.

[2:08:43] >> Yeah. And I I mean I can only speak for

[2:08:47] the time the couple years that I've been

[2:08:49] up here and worked with the city. You

[2:08:51] guys are great to work with. So

[2:08:54] >> yeah.

[2:08:54] >> Well, and you should say that whether or

[2:08:56] not that's true or not, but I'm assuming

[2:08:58] it's true.

[2:08:58] >> I built in a lot of areas and there I

[2:09:02] mean it's hard to build up here. I got

[2:09:03] my butt kicked cuz I built my own home.

[2:09:06] It was tough

[2:09:07] >> like in the worst winter that we could

[2:09:09] have. Me and my two boys as teenagers

[2:09:11] building the home. So, there was some

[2:09:13] real value there, but it was really, tough, right? And there's some

[2:09:17] unique things up here. But the city was

[2:09:19] great in every case when they didn't

[2:09:21] have to be. It could have been me. You

[2:09:24] know what I mean? And there's something

[2:09:26] to say for that. We live by each other.

[2:09:29] I enjoy seeing him every time. And

[2:09:31] there's other places that that doesn't

[2:09:33] exist. So, yeah, for that. See, and I

[2:09:37] think the problem is is that there are

[2:09:39] also two things. Is that if you don't

[2:09:40] fix it, you've got the problems. If you require him if we required strict

[2:09:46] compliance, it's going to cause him to

[2:09:48] go out of compliance and affect the

[2:09:50] street with the snow plows and

[2:09:52] everything else and raising that. And

[2:09:54] it's caused by a problem he can't solve

[2:09:56] because of the existing utilities that

[2:10:00] are there. And until that part's

[2:10:02] cleared, I would give him a conditional

[2:10:05] variance. But that if you solve those

[2:10:07] problems and give him notice, he's got

[2:10:08] to

[2:10:09] >> Yeah.

[2:10:09] >> got to

[2:10:10] >> if they're doing it, I want to do it the

[2:10:12] exact same time. We tear it up, we fix

[2:10:14] it, and we have it put back down.

[2:10:16] >> And I still have my deposits and

[2:10:18] everything held. So, it's like it's

[2:10:21] important to resolve now or not because

[2:10:24] >> and we should be able to find out and

[2:10:27] it's not something that we're going to

[2:10:29] oh, we'll get around to it when we can.

[2:10:31] We we need to address it now

[2:10:34] >> in fairness to him. So do I give you a a

[2:10:38] year limit to do it?

[2:10:39] >> Yeah.

[2:10:44] » And if it doesn't happen in a year then

[2:10:46] the con the variance becomes

[2:10:49] >> permanent or unc or

[2:10:51] >> becomes unconditional

[2:10:52] >> unconditional.

[2:10:54] >> Yeah. I mean I think we all know that it

[2:10:56] happens in the next 6 months because of

[2:10:59] snow.

[2:10:59] >> Yeah.

[2:11:00] >> Right. So,

[2:11:01] >> well, yeah, I want to I want to give the

[2:11:03] option to get past winter.

[2:11:06] >> Yeah.

[2:11:07] >> Um,

[2:11:09] >> yeah.

[2:11:11] Now,

[2:11:13] changing the subject just a little bit.

[2:11:15] The other issue I don't we have we've

[2:11:18] addressed it I guess maybe in a

[2:11:19] roundabout way. It's not the driveway

[2:11:22] slope.

[2:11:24] It's the setback

[2:11:26] for the driveway. It's extending into

[2:11:28] that side into into the setback

[2:11:30] >> but it doesn't have any right but it

[2:11:33] doesn't have anything to do with slope.

[2:11:35] you mentioned slope and so I was

[2:11:38] >> okay then excuse I thought we'd talk

[2:11:40] about the elongating that it went into

[2:11:42] this slope to give to deal with this

[2:11:44] slope down here that that the elongation

[2:11:49] into the setback those cars created in

[2:11:54] order to get this slope this slope could

[2:11:58] never be fixed because it's only

[2:12:00] conditioned between here and here with

[2:12:02] the two driveways the reason why This

[2:12:04] was elongated was to get this slope

[2:12:08] to get that original from here.

[2:12:10] >> But you're in the setback. Not there.

[2:12:12] The slope. You're in the setback over

[2:12:13] here, right?

[2:12:14] >> No, this has got your 20 foot. This set

[2:12:18] this the only area that is impeded in

[2:12:21] that 20ft section is right here.

[2:12:24] >> And it's to accommodate this lower half

[2:12:26] because this upper half I guess we could

[2:12:29] have done the same thing and got within

[2:12:30] 5 ft of the property line here. So, it's

[2:12:33] the front yard setback that you're

[2:12:34] repeating.

[2:12:35] >> Yes, it

[2:12:35] >> it's a sideyard actually.

[2:12:38] >> Okay. These two, this sideyard.

[2:12:40] >> Yes, that's the one that's to be is that

[2:12:43] the driveway is supposed to be 20 ft

[2:12:45] away from that side.

[2:12:47] >> Oh, so it should be 20 ft. So, it should

[2:12:50] be Well, oh, you're saying the driveway

[2:12:52] is within the 20 ft here.

[2:12:55] >> Yes, correct. It's 10 ft off instead of

[2:12:57] 20. And it was I moved it there to get

[2:13:00] this lower half compliant with slope.

[2:13:03] >> Okay. Thank you for bringing out. I

[2:13:05] thought it was this part.

[2:13:07] >> Okay.

[2:13:07] >> So,

[2:13:09] you agree? Okay. Yeah.

[2:13:11] >> And I don't have a problem with that

[2:13:13] either, but I mean to do it, but

[2:13:15] >> cuz I thought the purpose of the

[2:13:17] elongating where it's just going into a

[2:13:20] different one than I thought.

[2:13:20] >> And he he took it way over here so that

[2:13:25] he could meet this slope here.

[2:13:27] >> Right. Well, and I understood

[2:13:29] >> because if he if he came in 20 ft, it it

[2:13:33] >> I was sitting at 17%. So,

[2:13:36] >> but you're focusing it was the it's a

[2:13:38] setback from the driveway

[2:13:40] to the property.

[2:13:41] >> Yes.

[2:13:41] >> Yeah.

[2:13:42] >> Not to the

[2:13:43] >> not the driveway itself.

[2:13:45] >> Yes.

[2:13:46] So, that should be if it is now 10,

[2:13:50] should it be 20?

[2:13:51] >> Yeah. So he needs a variance in if

[2:13:54] you're willing to grant it if

[2:13:55] >> I am. I mean I was that

[2:13:58] >> I thought it was over here but it's over

[2:14:00] there.

[2:14:00] >> Yeah. I just wanted

[2:14:01] >> Yeah, it's on the east side of the

[2:14:03] property.

[2:14:03] >> Clarification.

[2:14:04] >> So technically are you considering

[2:14:06] that's a

[2:14:10] for describing that that's within the 20

[2:14:13] foot front setbacker? Is that the

[2:14:16] separation of a driveway from 20 ft from

[2:14:19] the sideyard?

[2:14:20] >> It's a side. It's a side property line.

[2:14:23] >> Okay, that's what

[2:14:27] >> and either side wherever that

[2:14:29] >> okay

[2:14:29] >> making difference where they place the

[2:14:31] driveway. It has to be 20 ft away. And

[2:14:33] you know, you know why that was

[2:14:36] implemented years ago

[2:14:39] so that

[2:14:41] people who are snowblowing their

[2:14:44] driveway wouldn't throw it on their

[2:14:47] neighbor's yard.

[2:14:49] So they gave him 20 feet to throw the

[2:14:52] snow off their driveway.

[2:14:55] >> When you when you said that about the

[2:14:57] front setback, I was kind of throwing

[2:14:59] me. So I It's the 20 ft from

[2:15:03] >> That's real up here. Yeah.

[2:15:05] >> Yeah.

[2:15:07] >> Well, and you know, you have such an

[2:15:09] interesting environment. I mean, that's

[2:15:10] why people come is because you have such

[2:15:13] a great, you know, natural environment.

[2:15:16] But boy, it brings, you know, drainage

[2:15:19] and,

[2:15:20] you know, wildfire.

[2:15:22] >> Yeah. A lot of other things.

[2:15:25] >> And and I guess I'm a little more having

[2:15:27] been to Kawaii and see where, you know,

[2:15:28] streams where they were just dry ditches

[2:15:31] before and now they, you know, people's

[2:15:33] homes were flooded and

[2:15:35] >> streets and cars were,

[2:15:37] >> well, cars weren't, but I mean, boulder

[2:15:39] and it was, it was interesting to

[2:15:42] >> It's scary when mother nature does their

[2:15:45] thing.

[2:15:45] >> Yeah. We don't live in a climate that

[2:15:47] you'd ever have that kind of water.

[2:15:49] We're not the same. But

[2:15:51] >> it only takes months.

[2:15:53] >> We do have some crazy storms. We

[2:15:55] actually had

[2:15:56] >> Well, we did all that mitigation though

[2:15:58] a couple of years ago because of all

[2:16:01] that stuff coming down the canyon.

[2:16:03] >> Right. From the fire, right?

[2:16:05] >> Yes. Because of fire.

[2:16:07] >> That's what right now with the

[2:16:09] vegetation, it's amazing. The vegetation

[2:16:12] takes all the moisture. There's so many

[2:16:14] trees, but as soon as you have a fire

[2:16:16] and you don't have that vegetation,

[2:16:17] that's when you have the

[2:16:19] >> But then you have the mudslide, too. I

[2:16:21] lived in Saratoga and we had the

[2:16:22] mudslide.

[2:16:23] >> I was going to say you have this

[2:16:24] mudslide usually faster because you've

[2:16:27] lost not only the trees, but you've lost

[2:16:29] the grass to hold it in place.

[2:16:31] >> Yeah.

[2:16:32] And that went we only had rain for

[2:16:34] 45 minutes and we had a wall of water

[2:16:38] come through our subdivision that was

[2:16:40] 450 ft wide and 4t tall but it was 90%

[2:16:44] mud and boulders

[2:16:45] >> and the only thing that saved the kids

[2:16:47] that were in the streets was the fact

[2:16:49] that when it rained it started hailing.

[2:16:51] So all the kids went in. It was a

[2:16:53] Saturday night at 7:00 p.m. I was

[2:16:56] watching the BYU game and my neighbor

[2:16:57] came running over

[2:16:59] >> and he and it banging on the door cuz it

[2:17:02] missed our house by one lot, me and him.

[2:17:05] >> And he yelled, "Can you hear that?" And

[2:17:06] I said, "Yeah, I thought it was just

[2:17:08] rain." He's like, "It's a mudslide." And

[2:17:10] so I run out there and there's a

[2:17:12] mudslide taken out. It took out 14

[2:17:14] homes.

[2:17:14] >> Oh goodness.

[2:17:15] >> But that's what we had a fire in July,

[2:17:19] June, July. And that happened. And it

[2:17:21] was the Saturday of um Labor Day

[2:17:25] weekend, that first week of September.

[2:17:27] >> Was that fast? So you still

[2:17:29] >> Yeah.

[2:17:30] >> chance.

[2:17:30] >> Well, thank you.

[2:17:32] >> Okay.

[2:17:33] And you'll write that up then. I

[2:17:36] will um for those and um

[2:17:39] >> thanks for supplying me some words for

[2:17:41] what I wanted to

[2:17:43] >> that exterior suppression because I it

[2:17:45] just seems to me that that was a

[2:17:47] solution that

[2:17:49] >> I'm sure I wasn't the first one to think

[2:17:51] of. So, I'm I'm doing a big project up

[2:17:54] in Park City at the East Village of Deer

[2:17:58] Creek Deer Valley Ski Resort. And this

[2:18:02] has come into play in the last 3 months

[2:18:04] because WOOI has changed all of their

[2:18:07] they've updated their paths where embers

[2:18:11] could drop and we weren't in a zone and

[2:18:14] now we are in a zone and we're building

[2:18:18] 50 town homes that are between 12 and

[2:18:21] $18 million a piece and all of those are

[2:18:25] now uninsurable unless we up it. So,

[2:18:28] we've had to do exterior fire

[2:18:30] sprinklers. We had to do a class A fire

[2:18:33] uh roof system. So, funny enough, I was

[2:18:36] sitting there. I'm like, I know the

[2:18:37] answer cuz I'm dealing with it in my

[2:18:39] work every day.

[2:18:40] >> Yeah.

[2:18:41] >> And Yeah. These homes are It's not worth

[2:18:43] it. $15 million. It's never worth the

[2:18:46] $15 million town. But

[2:18:48] >> the extra that you're doing, is that to

[2:18:50] comply with with park or other

[2:18:54] ordinances up there? It's just extra.

[2:18:56] >> It's only for

[2:18:57] >> insurance purposes.

[2:18:58] >> Yes. So, and one of the good things is

[2:19:02] that came out of the terrible fires of

[2:19:03] Southern California was the insurance

[2:19:06] companies were hit so hard that now that

[2:19:08] they're they are communicating much

[2:19:09] better with like us builders up front

[2:19:12] and saying, "Hey, it's and it's

[2:19:15] happening because of the people funding

[2:19:16] it saying, hey, we're funding this

[2:19:18] project. We need to make sure

[2:19:21] >> that we're insurable." and they're

[2:19:22] coming back to us in the building

[2:19:24] process even before there's an owner

[2:19:26] saying this is not insurable with that

[2:19:29] unless you do this and this and this and

[2:19:31] it's added costs but could you imagine

[2:19:33] buying a $15 million town home and then

[2:19:36] you cannot have insurance

[2:19:38] >> it would be horrible

[2:19:39] >> and I and I think that you know I know

[2:19:42] it was a long time ago and stuff but I

[2:19:44] and I don't remember now exactly but

[2:19:46] those fires that kind of sparked the you

[2:19:49] know the wooie is what you're calling

[2:19:51] and to come in those urban fires and

[2:19:54] >> you know it just um and and I know it's

[2:19:57] affected community you know it's

[2:19:58] particularly not even Park City but

[2:20:01] would there but even farther ones up you

[2:20:03] know about how close you can

[2:20:04] >> yes

[2:20:05] >> have stuff things and and you think oh

[2:20:07] it's just crazy and then you see these

[2:20:10] horrible fires that are happening and

[2:20:12] you realize that

[2:20:12] >> take out entire towns yeah

[2:20:15] >> and you realize that we're building

[2:20:18] right where we shouldn't be building in

[2:20:20] a lot of cases This is a beautiful area,

[2:20:23] but it probably wasn't designed by God

[2:20:25] for building it. Even though now that we

[2:20:27] live here, we're grateful we're here,

[2:20:29] but he probably gave us that valley, but

[2:20:31] we want to live here.

[2:20:34] >> Yeah.

[2:20:34] >> Well, others might say, "Well, he gave

[2:20:36] us the valley so we can plant food in

[2:20:37] it." But

[2:20:38] >> that's true.

[2:20:40] >> And I grew up on a potato farm in Idaho,

[2:20:42] so I could empathize with that one, too.

[2:20:45] >> It It's crazy.

[2:20:46] >> Did you want to take this with you?

[2:20:48] >> No, I want you to keep that. I want you

[2:20:50] to mark it and keep it with that.

[2:20:52] >> And um I would imagine that Jod has

[2:20:55] probably set up

[2:20:56] >> some kind of a filing system for the

[2:20:58] thing

[2:20:59] >> and I'd fold it up and mark it and put

[2:21:01] it in there so it's it's with you.

[2:21:03] >> We'll do and then we'll

[2:21:06] >> Well, I do this cuz I

[2:21:08] >> Thank you for your time.

[2:21:09] >> Well,

[2:21:10] >> yes.

[2:21:10] >> And

[2:21:11] >> appreciate it.

[2:21:13] >> And I appreciate you coming. Like it's

[2:21:16] great help. great help to be able to

[2:21:20] work as a team and figure out its best

[2:21:22] to really I really appreciate you coming

[2:21:25] down from Salt Lake and being

[2:21:27] >> Well, I'm coming out and if you hadn't

[2:21:29] have been able to say that it was the

[2:21:31] fiber octave problems or that you

[2:21:32] couldn't do it because of the stuff that

[2:21:34] was already there, I probably would have

[2:21:35] made you do it anyway.

[2:21:37] Well, I only know it was cuz I was the

[2:21:40] one with the shovel digging. And so,

[2:21:43] yeah, I I did I did it without approval,

[2:21:47] but I didn't do it recklessly cuz it's

[2:21:49] my own property, right? Like I'm like,

[2:21:52] what else do I do here?

[2:21:54] >> But yeah,

[2:21:54] >> next time call.

[2:21:56] >> Yes. But what I was battling is it was

[2:21:59] September and October we get snow here.

[2:22:02] So, you're battling. If I didn't put

[2:22:04] down an asphalt there, I couldn't have

[2:22:07] occupied that house. And it was when the

[2:22:10] interest rates were going up, I'd never

[2:22:12] said this, but we it was because I built

[2:22:15] it myself. I was always behind schedule.

[2:22:18] And but my last 4 months of my loan, I

[2:22:21] ended up paying over $50,000 in fees.

[2:22:25] They extend the 4 months, but the bank

[2:22:26] wouldn't let me extend any further

[2:22:28] without adjusting my interest rate, and

[2:22:31] it would have jumped my payment like

[2:22:32] $2,000 a month,

[2:22:34] >> which then meant I wouldn't have been

[2:22:35] able to live in the home. So, it was

[2:22:38] I I did that calculated knowing if I had

[2:22:42] to pay to rip out that driveway, it's

[2:22:45] cheaper than what I'm faced with now.

[2:22:48] So, it's the it's the best or the worst

[2:22:50] two options, right?

[2:22:51] >> So, it's a calculated risk and

[2:22:54] >> Yeah.

[2:22:54] >> Um and and and we

[2:22:58] and you would have gotten tagged. Well,

[2:23:00] you got tagged.

[2:23:01] >> Yeah.

[2:23:02] >> And and you and had they not been there,

[2:23:06] you would have you would have been

[2:23:08] >> I would have had the 12 in. I wouldn't

[2:23:09] have had the 15. It's in my mind.

[2:23:13] >> Yeah.

[2:23:13] And there was there was nothing we

[2:23:16] could or should have done about it

[2:23:18] because it's co.

[2:23:19] >> So, you know, it's on us.

[2:23:21] >> Yeah.

[2:23:22] >> If it's not good, then we need to change

[2:23:24] it. So,

[2:23:24] >> yeah.

[2:23:25] >> Well, thank you. It was good to meet

[2:23:27] you.

[2:23:27] >> Appreciate the time.

[2:23:28] >> Very good. Thank you very much.

[2:23:31] >> Yeah. Appreciate it.

[2:23:33] >> Like always,

[2:23:37] » if we want to meet out there and talk

[2:23:39] about it, kind of look at it together,

[2:23:42] let me know. Okay.

[2:23:48] See how

Variance Appeal Hearing April 17, 2026

Transcript