[0:05] To the flag of the United States of

[0:07] America and to the republic for which it

[0:10] stands, one nation under God,

[0:13] indivisible, with liberty and justice

[0:16] for all.

[0:19] » All right,

[0:23] let's see. We start off u everyone have

[0:25] a chance to look at the February minutes

[0:28] corrections additions off

[0:40] » I

[0:42] so

[0:48] item A we're going to hear from Robert

[0:52] is that correct

[0:53] Yes.

[1:06] » Um, this is this is a a pretty simple

[1:09] text amendment to adjust the existing uh

[1:12] chapter 92.12 or 91.12 to establish a

[1:16] one-year pilot program for dogs on the

[1:18] beach. Uh the amend the amendment keeps

[1:20] the seasonal restriction structure, but

[1:22] it adds a limited uh morning window to

[1:26] uh the dates for leash dogs um in the

[1:31] mornings. Um so the current the current

[1:33] ordinance um prohibits the dogs on

[1:35] public beaches from April 1st through

[1:38] September 30th and allows for leash uh

[1:42] dogs from October 1 through March 31st.

[1:45] Um, I prepared this um, revision with

[1:48] the notes that came um, these were just

[1:51] notes that came out of the meeting. As

[1:54] far as I can tell, there was the

[1:57] committee meeting where the park rangers

[1:58] involved, members of the public, they spoke about what they wanted to

[2:03] change and uh, essentially received a

[2:06] bullet pointed memo uh, and uh, with

[2:10] some proposed changes to essentially add

[2:12] this pilot program. uh with us um with

[2:16] what I'm guessing is the support of uh

[2:18] the park ranger um because he was

[2:21] involved in those meetings. I'm sure

[2:22] some people from the planning board was

[2:24] on this committee as well. Um thank you.

[2:27] >> Yeah. And you so you were there. You

[2:30] could probably speak to it better than I

[2:31] can. Um so basically this revises the

[2:34] season restriction dates from April 2nd

[2:36] to September 29th and allows dogs on the

[2:39] public beach between 6:00 a.m. and 9:00

[2:41] a.m. during that period. Um, it revises

[2:45] the leashed uh dog season to September

[2:47] 29th to April 20 I mean to April 2nd

[2:51] which is just a one day change. I'm not

[2:53] really sure why that was changed.

[2:59] » That's what I got from the notes. So

[3:01] that's what I in your strike through

[3:03] underline. Um, so it does establish a

[3:06] yearround uh uh let's see, establishes

[3:09] yearround dog free beach areas from

[3:11] beach access 42, which I believe is just

[3:14] north of Shell Island and beach access

[3:17] 2. Um, which

[3:21] I'm I was thinking about this today. Um

[3:24] the justification for that is at beach

[3:27] access one you have the bird sanctuary

[3:29] which is all the south end and then

[3:31] beyond 42 what? North

[3:36] the north. So one is at the north end.

[3:38] Oh so I got it backwards. So 42 um

[3:42] basically it precludes anything in the

[3:44] bird sanctuary which is on the south end

[3:47] and anything north of Shell Island but

[3:49] then you get into the channel and

[3:50] whatnot over there. Um,

[3:54] so

[3:58] » Right. Exactly. Um, so it adds a civil

[4:01] penalty uh $500 per uh violation up from

[4:05] the existing $250

[4:08] um and adopts uh division BCH H&I as a

[4:12] temporary pilot program. Those are just

[4:15] the the amendments. So, what I added

[4:17] here

[4:19] in your packet is the notes uh for the

[4:24] dogs and the beach January 20th, 2026

[4:27] um which outlines the ordinance changes,

[4:30] the communication efforts, uh the

[4:32] amenity improvements and volunteer

[4:34] support and and challenges etc.

[4:38] So what I included was the original

[4:41] ordinance as written directly out of our

[4:43] book uh adopted 2012

[4:48] and the last amendment was actually 2019

[4:52] because that's when we readopted uh the

[4:55] wings. Uh I added the strike through

[4:57] underline so you can see what has

[4:59] actually changed. That's on page 11 of

[5:01] your packet. Um,

[5:06] it's not a lot, but it does add some

[5:08] provisions for a little bit more freedom

[5:11] of warnings.

[5:14] >> Just keep going. The number is kind of

[5:15] strange.

[5:19] » Okay.

[5:21] >> Yeah. Looks like your age you would have

[5:25] been from 10 to 12 to 13-

[5:28] >> for 11D. Has anybody ever had a snake?

[5:32] Yes.

[5:33] >> I don't know.

[5:34] >> Yes, I've seen it.

[5:37] >> Wrapped all around.

[5:39] >> 11de

[5:41] snake.

[5:42] >> Oh no.

[5:43] >> Many years ago chickens in here.

[5:47] >> I don't remember the snake.

[5:48] >> Um so H, I and J are new sections

[5:53] completely. And then there are some

[5:57] pretty simple amendments to B and C.

[6:01] um in your strike through underline

[6:03] version and then I always include the

[6:05] new version of just what it looks like

[6:07] once it's finished. Um so if there's any

[6:09] mistakes in there, we can adjust it

[6:12] before it gets to the board of aldermen.

[6:14] Um that's all I have. So this is uh your

[6:18] discussion. Um

[6:20] so I think what we can do is I know Doug

[6:22] Wilson's here. So let him talk for

[6:26] you want to say something for a minute.

[6:28] >> Yes. Appreciate And then we'll then

[6:30] we'll have a good discussion.

[6:31] >> Sure.

[6:33] Sounds good.

[6:34] >> I'm trying to limit it. I

[6:37] There was a famous old judge in western

[6:39] North Carolina

[6:41] who is known for repeating at the

[6:42] beginning of every court calendar.

[6:45] Revity is prized above all else.

[6:49] >> Give us the cliffs version.

[6:50] >> Okay. Uh appreciate it. generally uh

[6:55] background I started this petition drive

[6:59] almost three years ago so the signs

[7:01] you've seen petitions etc uh with

[7:04] talking with other folks because a lot

[7:07] of people expressed interest in in

[7:08] opening this up we found out every other

[7:11] beach town in North Carolina South

[7:12] Carolina had some provision in fact

[7:16] pretty much up and down the whole east

[7:17] coast so we started this last December

[7:21] and I'm going to submit I'm Sorry, I

[7:24] actually had no notice that this period

[7:26] is going to take place tonight uh with uh this agenda. Um

[7:33] I submitted to the um

[7:37] board and I'm going to put this in your

[7:39] record because I referred to it a little

[7:41] bit. This has all the beach town rules

[7:44] for North and South Carolina. Has

[7:46] interviews with uh town managers with

[7:48] Sullivan Island, etc. also has names and

[7:52] addresses of 166 registered citizens who

[7:55] signed the petition.

[7:57] Want to mention two things. One, Robert,

[7:59] on the uh amend amendment itself, I

[8:04] think you also need to amend um

[8:11] 91.02.

[8:14] Uh that's the uh definitions and that

[8:16] includes a nuisance and includes

[8:18] reference to dogs over the summer. I

[8:21] think that needs to be

[8:24] modified as well so it's in accordance

[8:26] with the text of

[8:31] um

[8:33] and uh secondly

[8:36] and I may have been confused. I would

[8:40] suggest I didn't understand that the

[8:45] putting off the north and south ends was

[8:48] year round. I thought it was for the

[8:50] season April one. I may have

[8:52] misunderstood you did, but I suggest at

[8:56] least others I suggest you consider

[8:59] that. Um I mean from say people can't go

[9:03] out in November and December and

[9:06] January.

[9:07] there very few people anyway. But I

[9:10] really think uh I misunderstood that and

[9:13] I suggest uh that you consider changing

[9:16] that. And last thing I want to say is

[9:20] um just express there a lot of public

[9:24] support for this. You understand this.

[9:27] Um I did emphasize the other beach

[9:30] towns. I know Jim and I disagreed a

[9:32] little bit about the importance of those

[9:34] in our committee meetings, but I do know

[9:36] that uh some of the board has mentioned

[9:38] that last year when they started this

[9:40] committee mentioned the importance of

[9:43] other details and what what they were

[9:45] doing with it. With that all

[9:57] » what were you saying about um amending

[10:00] what were you saying the last thing you

[10:01] said about

[10:03] >> what I'm sorry

[10:05] >> the text amendment

[10:07] amends um the numbers amends 91.12

[10:14] dogs on the beach to the what what the

[10:16] text me says mornings uh 6 a.m. to 9:00

[10:20] a.m.

[10:21] >> You want that to be around?

[10:23] >> No, ma'am. That's fine. What I'm saying

[10:26] is there is another provision in the

[10:29] ordinance

[10:30] uh 91.02

[10:33] under definitions. It also includes that

[10:36] prohibition for dogs completely April

[10:40] one. So it's in it's in conflict with

[10:42] the text. Now you're saying you need to

[10:45] make sure that both

[10:48] >> Yeah, it's a different it's a different chapter altogether.

[10:51] What he's saying is there's two separate

[10:52] um there's two separate ordinances that

[10:54] sort of conflict in language with each

[10:56] other. And that's fine. That's that's a

[10:58] relative easy easy change. And I'll just

[11:03] remind you that whenever it comes to two

[11:05] conflicting ordinances, you always go

[11:07] with the most restrictive one. Right.

[11:10] But that's my point. Yeah.

[11:14] >> Okay.

[11:16] I got you.

[11:20] » So, let's have a conversation among the

[11:22] board. We've heard from Mr. Wilson.

[11:24] Obviously, he was

[11:28] no clarification. One of the things I

[11:30] want to say is I'm in Sullivan's Island

[11:33] every week. Every week I'm leaving. I

[11:37] have had it all. There's a huge

[11:39] difference between Sullivan's Island is

[11:42] Palm and Rice Beach. South Carolina

[11:44] beaches are extremely wide. I mean, you

[11:47] can walk whatever even in the summer

[11:49] except when you get right in the middle

[11:51] of Palm down with the villages there. is

[11:54] a little crowded, but

[11:58] there's a ton of beach and so you you

[12:01] can't compare right to the beach that is

[12:03] so crowded that you can't even I don't

[12:06] walk out there right across the street

[12:08] because there's no room on that beach

[12:10] and and and then and I did a ride ride

[12:13] along in side by side not long ago and

[12:15] even at 6:30 at night in the summer that

[12:18] beach is still crowded. Um the questions

[12:21] I I am concerned about is who's going to

[12:23] enforce this is you know our beach is

[12:26] still over how long it is

[12:29] from end to end and I don't know Scott

[12:32] still

[12:34] okay so it's between two men be up and

[12:38] down the beach who and and I and

[12:42] Sullivan's island they are on that beach

[12:44] with their four by 4x4 side by sides

[12:46] water 24/7 up and down I If you even

[12:50] step through that beach, they they dog

[12:54] when it's not allowed. Each beach is

[12:55] different. Palm's dog hours are

[12:58] different from some but you walk the

[13:00] line cross the line right into up from

[13:03] Isa Pal. You don't even know you're in

[13:04] it. So they are they you can see them

[13:07] coming and they're like this up and down

[13:09] and it's a much larger beach. So there's

[13:13] a ton of room for dogs and they don't.

[13:15] So I want to know how is this going to

[13:18] look in the summer noise

[13:21] when people outstay

[13:24] their time

[13:26] is it not how how is that going to look

[13:29] and who's going to police it and who's

[13:32] going to stop the people that dig a hole

[13:35] to cover their waist as opposed to

[13:36] picking it up because I see that happen

[13:40] and I know people that do it. I mean I

[13:42] yell at them all the time. I want to

[13:43] know how to enforce it. Who's going to

[13:46] clean up? People that don't pick up. I'm

[13:49] not. I mean, who's how is this going to

[13:52] look?

[13:54] >> How many citations were there last year?

[13:58] Just you have any idea?

[13:59] >> I have no idea. That's uh that will go

[14:02] through the police department now that

[14:04] uh the park rangers are attached to the

[14:06] police department. And do the park

[14:08] rangers write those or can police write

[14:10] those or can ocean rescue write those?

[14:13] >> Uh the majority is going to be written

[14:15] by Chad and the park rangers. Probably

[14:18] not. Ocean rescue will not.

[14:20] >> What time do the park rangers start each

[14:22] day?

[14:23] >> They have different schedules. They in

[14:25] summer they may start at 6.

[14:27] >> Okay. So there is somebody out

[14:28] >> sometimes they'll stay a little bit

[14:30] later sometimes.

[14:31] >> Okay. And the other thing that that um

[14:34] when I was riding along with one of the

[14:36] police officers not long ago, there was

[14:38] several dogs on the beach that that

[14:40] afternoon. This was in the summer and it

[14:41] was several dogs. I mean, between them

[14:44] her picking me up and us working our way

[14:47] down where there's no beach, the side by

[14:49] side can't even get over to the Mason

[14:51] inlet because there's no beach. You have

[14:53] to go down a thing and and get up up

[14:56] back up to get over. And she stopped

[14:59] probably a half a dozen times that

[15:01] people had dogs on the beach. And that

[15:03] was when it were supposed to

[15:06] happen. And some people had a bracelet

[15:10] on that show that they had to have the

[15:11] service dog earlier. And one little

[15:14] girl, young girl, she goes, "Oh, this is

[15:16] my emotional support dog." Well, then

[15:18] the officer said, "Well, you've got to

[15:20] have service dog. We don't allow

[15:21] emotional support dogs because there's a

[15:23] difference." and she and she made the

[15:27] young girl college age girl. So that so

[15:32] my point about that is you my concern

[15:35] and I know it's already written down

[15:37] when you've given it to take them out

[15:39] and all the years that I've been doing

[15:42] in Solomon's Island I see people pushing

[15:45] you know and are letting the dogs off

[15:47] the leash and I see as many dogs off the

[15:49] leash as I do until they get caught and

[15:51] they get caught they they don't give

[15:54] them a break they So are we going to do

[15:56] that as a as a town is as are we going

[15:59] to enforce it that way because if we

[16:02] don't it's going to be like everything

[16:03] else that doesn't get enforced and

[16:05] there's no because right now with

[16:06] speeding tickets and noise violations if

[16:08] you don't get in the pockets they're

[16:09] going to keep doing it and I just I

[16:12] don't know I just um I want to know how

[16:14] it's going to how it's going to look how

[16:15] it's going to play out and you and you

[16:17] and if you do it for a year then you a

[16:20] year if it doesn't work out then you got

[16:22] to start all over again start you know people not going to know they

[16:26] want to fight at age it's just it's

[16:28] going to be

[16:30] us. I think

[16:32] >> that's just my opinion.

[16:35] >> Can I and maybe it's a question for you,

[16:36] but because you were on the the

[16:38] committee, but what are we trying to

[16:40] solve for? Like is what was the problem

[16:43] with the old ordinance that we're trying

[16:46] to solve for here? Is it is it that

[16:48] there are residents of Rightville Beach

[16:50] that want more access with their dogs or

[16:53] what is the problem?

[16:55] >> Not just residents, it's people on the

[16:56] other side of the bridge as well.

[16:59] Yeah, that's my understanding though is

[17:01] um and I I quite honestly didn't

[17:05] understand. Okay, we've been living with

[17:07] this ordinance for what did you say

[17:09] Robert 2012

[17:11] and then when it was revised in 2019, I

[17:14] don't think the dogs on the beach

[17:16] section was reviewed, it just went

[17:18] through with the whole rescue ordinance.

[17:20] But we've been living with it this long

[17:23] and yes, people who want to walk their

[17:27] dogs down the beach more uh have brought

[17:31] this forth and and so so so your

[17:35] followup question was there any

[17:37] consideration given to like I share some

[17:41] of William's concerns there's other

[17:42] concern you know we don't need anything

[17:44] else marine you know folks just coming

[17:46] just to do that was there any

[17:48] consideration giving to given to some

[17:51] sort of

[17:52] resident pass to what we so it's just

[17:57] you know if we're talking about 166

[17:59] people who live here that really want

[18:00] access for a couple hours in the morning

[18:02] in the summer

[18:04] is it worth opening the can of worms to

[18:06] everyone I'm just throwing something out

[18:08] for the board's consideration I just

[18:10] started thinking if the problem is we

[18:12] want to help these residents get on the

[18:14] beach in the summer then maybe we may

[18:18] >> again you got to have somebody that's

[18:19] monitor

[18:20] Yeah, that's the one of the key things.

[18:22] And I want to practice it because I want

[18:24] to stay on the road. I love dogs

[18:26] probably more than people. I love dogs,

[18:28] but it's not their fault. It's the

[18:31] owner's faults that aren't cleaning up.

[18:32] I mean, I walk out and I see people in

[18:35] front of my house all the time heading

[18:36] out and it was in the summer and you

[18:38] know when there's no dogs on the beach

[18:40] and here they go with their dogs and

[18:41] they got them in their bag, they've

[18:43] hidden them here. I've seen it a million

[18:45] times. And so, it's not the dog's fault.

[18:47] It's the owner's fault. And then I knew

[18:49] that every owner was going to come up

[18:51] there and clean up behind their dog and

[18:54] not let that dog a get loose and you

[18:57] know y'all remember the guy on the loop

[18:59] with the bad dog that was so aggressive

[19:01] and people will complain the dog was

[19:04] dangerous and he didn't do he couldn't

[19:06] hold the dog back. What happens when one

[19:08] of those dogs and ends up on the beach

[19:11] and bites a child or attacks child?

[19:15] Because people got on the beach in the

[19:16] summer when they know parking, they're

[19:18] out on that beach earlier, get to the

[19:20] new parking spot. So it and again, it's

[19:24] not the dog's fault. It's the owner's

[19:27] fault. And I like I said, I think it's

[19:30] we we're opening a big or a big can of

[19:32] worms. I I was going to suggest that one

[19:35] of the things we could have done was add

[19:37] a month instead of it ending dogs ending

[19:40] on the beach October 1st. Why couldn't

[19:43] we push it to November and start it and let it in other words when it ends

[19:50] dogs are not going to have dogs on the

[19:51] beach after April 1. What if we moved it

[19:53] to May 1st before Memorial Day and then

[19:55] gave them an extra month to get in add

[19:58] two months to it and just do it in the

[20:02] crazy busy time of the summer when that

[20:05] beach is slam. You can't even walk

[20:07] there.

[20:08] That would have made more sense to me.

[20:11] what you add to the allowance.

[20:15] >> Not

[20:17] year round,

[20:18] >> but it's it's based on the nesting sea

[20:20] turtles.

[20:21] >> Well, I thought about that because they

[20:23] don't nest.

[20:25] >> Not in in April, but they do.

[20:28] >> It doesn't matter what the sea turtles

[20:30] get.

[20:30] >> Yeah.

[20:31] >> If you open it up year round

[20:35] 9:00 in the morning, 6 until 9 year

[20:38] round. Turtles are messing too.

[20:42] I'm not following that.

[20:44] >> So what what she's saying is she instead

[20:46] of doing a year round approach, put a

[20:48] month on each side. So instead of

[20:50] starting October 1st through sorry,

[20:53] ending October 1st, ending or start dogs on the beach October 1st, end

[20:59] dogs on the beach April 30th.

[21:02] >> Yeah. as just in the mornings.

[21:05] >> No,

[21:06] >> he said he's he said take the current

[21:08] policy and give a month additional for

[21:10] dogs on leash dogs on the beach at any

[21:12] time. Just just pull the pull the

[21:14] >> That doesn't coincide with the nesting.

[21:16] Doesn't matter.

[21:18] That's what they do. They dig up the

[21:20] nest.

[21:20] >> But but listen, but what we're doing

[21:22] right now is we're not even considering

[21:24] sea turtles because you're doing year

[21:26] round dogs on the beach

[21:27] >> on the morning.

[21:28] >> Only in the morning.

[21:29] >> Well, maybe in the morning just as well

[21:31] as you're digging. Yeah.

[21:34] >> Well, that's that's the what we have to

[21:36] send a recommendation to the alderman

[21:38] after listening to Matt, the um

[21:42] gentleman who spoke at planning board.

[21:45] >> I'm inclined to not do these revisions

[21:48] at all.

[21:50] >> I don't think we should do it. Um I've

[21:52] had more calls about this issue. Um, we

[21:56] have the ordinance, original ordinance

[21:59] was written in 2012.

[22:02] So, what

[22:04] >> 14 years ago? How many more people do we

[22:06] have on the beach daily?

[22:07] >> A lot.

[22:08] >> Number one. Of course, there's more a

[22:11] lot more dogs, people. And and our town

[22:14] manager started out the meeting. The

[22:16] very first meeting we had, people's are

[22:19] much less responsible than they were 15,

[22:22] 20 years ago. They they don't care.

[22:24] >> They don't care.

[22:25] >> I've been out on the beach during the

[22:26] daytime. And I've literally seen dogs

[22:29] out there off leashes in the summertime

[22:32] and they walk up and pee on people's

[22:34] coolers.

[22:34] >> Yeah.

[22:35] >> They lick their leg. It's just

[22:37] disgusting.

[22:38] >> And when somebody lets that dog run, if

[22:40] you're sitting on the beach and they

[22:41] come running up your chair and and you

[22:44] know, it's got to be a dog. I love to

[22:48] take my dog out there, but come

[22:50] springtime, I've got to retrain it. it

[22:52] can't go out there anymore and it wants

[22:55] to go out but I'm not going to let it

[22:56] out there but I'm I'm just inclined like

[23:00] I agree with what what you said Leanne

[23:02] is um they're not they're not going to

[23:06] be it's going to be a problem

[23:08] >> it's going to be a big problem but if

[23:10] but I like I said I want to go back and

[23:12] say it one more time just I think it

[23:13] would be

[23:15] a nice tradeoff to add a month that's 60

[23:18] more days that just means that you you

[23:21] know, you couldn't have your your dog on

[23:23] the beach and you probably I would even

[23:26] push it to Memorial Day, not wait

[23:28] Memorial Day, but I wouldn't I'd say

[23:30] beginning of May, but that just means

[23:32] May, June, July, and August. When does

[23:35] >> only four months out of the year, you

[23:36] can't have your dog that

[23:38] >> this coincides with the current

[23:40] ordinance, which is um

[23:42] >> April 1st.

[23:43] >> April 1 is a start date.

[23:45] >> Yeah.

[23:46] >> Okay. and then September 30th. But, uh,

[23:49] also Matt said that the, uh, then the

[23:52] hatchlings take 60 days, so they could

[23:54] be out there, uh, hatching, um, as late

[23:57] as November 15th. Now, I did talk to

[24:00] Nancy Fe about it. Um and she said it's

[24:04] rare that we've had hashlings that late

[24:07] but um

[24:10] you know other than that I I don't have

[24:12] any you know I don't have any factual

[24:14] basis that said we should

[24:17] shorten it. Um the um the other issue

[24:21] that I think Leanne made a very good

[24:23] point of and I made it the committee is

[24:26] we cannot compare our beach to other

[24:28] beaches. We have different topography.

[24:30] We have a startments. Um Shannon and

[24:34] Neil and I rode the beach the other

[24:36] night for light pollution, which is

[24:39] another subject. But um it took us an

[24:42] hour and a half to drive it. So we've

[24:44] got Shannon out there who's going to

[24:47] >> you got to navigate your way around

[24:48] where there's beach and where there's

[24:50] not. That

[24:50] >> true. And um but all that being said, it

[24:54] took us an hour and a half and we we

[24:56] weren't kind of hooking hoofing it. we

[24:58] weren't really taking our time just, you

[25:00] know, uh but um yeah, we can't we're narrow and and we've got the

[25:08] escarments and the escarments do not

[25:10] affect the nesting turtles. They come up

[25:12] anyway and they nest in the escarment so

[25:14] they still come. Um

[25:17] and just another interesting fact, the

[25:19] beach beachour does not seem to affect

[25:23] their habits either. they still come

[25:25] after the beach announcement.

[25:28] But all that being said, I I mean, you

[25:30] know, we we've got to send a

[25:31] recommendation to the board and I guess

[25:33] we all have

[25:34] >> another thing that she said that's true

[25:36] is that people come really early now to

[25:39] get a spot

[25:41] >> and their family even with little

[25:43] children umbrellas and all the works. So

[25:46] they're coming much earlier than they

[25:48] used to. Not only that, people who live

[25:51] already along there go out early with

[25:54] little children because of the sun

[25:55] factor and there's lots of like we

[25:57] studied this 10 years ago or so. We did

[26:00] this same round and it you know it's

[26:03] just so many little people out on the

[26:04] beach early and and you know they do

[26:07] because their children they don't want

[26:08] their children in the heat of the sun

[26:09] and you know they do go out and I watch

[26:11] it because you know the house behind me

[26:12] gets rained and I watch them going out

[26:14] there early. So, you know, and again, I

[26:18] love I'm getting a dog, it's a matter of

[26:20] fact, but I I it's not dog's fault and it's not about the dog. It's about

[26:26] the owners and the disrespect that this

[26:30] beach is we put up with every day.

[26:32] People come across that dog bridge and

[26:34] throw all their morals out when they

[26:36] don't care anything about the residents,

[26:37] don't care anything about the beach. And

[26:39] I just don't I I've seen it so many

[26:42] times on this island 50 years and I've

[26:45] seen it

[26:47] and it's getting worse. It's not getting

[26:49] better. It's getting worse.

[26:51] >> There's no way to police it either.

[26:53] >> That's one thing I was going to ask

[26:54] about Nathan brought up a great point

[26:56] which is David to one. How many I'd love

[26:58] to know how many citations were

[27:00] >> written?

[27:01] >> Um

[27:04] because very few because Shannon can't

[27:06] cover four.

[27:07] That's and that's the realistic thing

[27:09] and you can't

[27:10] >> right and the 166 people that signed the

[27:13] petition how many of them are dog owners

[27:14] how many of them have registered their

[27:16] dogs

[27:17] >> how much is it to register a dog

[27:20] >> on the beach

[27:21] >> $10 or 20 more than 10 right now

[27:25] >> I mean for for something like this just

[27:28] I too taking phone calls and talked with

[27:30] a lot of dog owners I have a dog she

[27:32] doesn't go on the beach cuz she's insane

[27:34] she's a runoff so she doesn't go on the

[27:36] beach Um, but I've talked with folks who

[27:39] have a variety of different dogs who

[27:41] would love to see something like this.

[27:44] They would also be willing to pay their

[27:47] residents and they would be willing to

[27:49] pay up to register their dog as a

[27:52] homeowner on the beach and abide by the

[27:55] rules. But I agree with your point after

[27:57] 9 because once you come to the beach, if

[28:00] you bring your dog,

[28:01] >> you don't want to get

[28:02] >> you're not leaving because you're just

[28:03] going to hide that dog.

[28:04] >> You're going to hide that dog. I've seen them put them in their beach

[28:08] bags

[28:08] >> and I've been on the beach when they see

[28:10] somebody coming and they cut put the dog

[28:12] under a towel or a little blanket over

[28:14] the dog. Same the way people put their

[28:15] beer hide it back down in the in their

[28:18] cooler. And

[28:19] >> so can we how do we police it?

[28:21] >> We can.

[28:22] >> How you know the $500 fine I don't know

[28:25] how many tickets were paid.

[28:26] >> Me too. To Nathan's point, if we're, you

[28:30] know, what's I understand there's a lot

[28:32] of 166 people who want to see this. How

[28:36] many of them own their dogs? How many of

[28:37] them are registered? And then really,

[28:40] what are we trying to address here? I

[28:41] mean, the 6 to9 piece in the morning.

[28:44] >> Um, it took you an hour and a half to

[28:47] get up the beach in the evening,

[28:49] >> I believe.

[28:50] >> I mean,

[28:51] >> this was dark, too. So, we're expecting

[28:53] Shannon to to to do all this new new

[28:56] rules. We're expecting him to look at

[28:58] people smoking, drinking,

[29:02] uh drunk behavior because we do we got a

[29:04] little backup with the police, right?

[29:06] You know, but they're, you know, there

[29:09] are back and forth. Then you got the

[29:10] lifeguards and they're they're doing

[29:12] their job. There's there's no way

[29:14] anybody's going to convince me that

[29:16] Shannon and Scott are going to be able

[29:18] to do this on their own.

[29:19] >> Right. I mean, I would love to know just

[29:21] from would folks be willing to pay

[29:26] a little bit more or a lot more to

[29:28] register their dog to be able to walk it

[29:30] on the beach.

[29:31] >> Yeah, I think having a beach passes is

[29:33] for a residential beach pass. We're

[29:36] really interested and worried about the

[29:39] citizens of Rel Beach the residential

[29:41] beach pass. But then I also think that

[29:43] we have to decide here if we're going to

[29:45] recommend it. There's a zero tolerance

[29:47] policy. So if you don't have that, if

[29:50] you have a dog on the beach, it's not

[29:52] one of those things that that's, you

[29:54] know, you got to take your dog. You have

[29:55] to have zero tolerance. People are going

[29:57] to have to understand that you're going

[29:58] to be fine. Um,

[30:00] >> I don't think that's

[30:02] >> I'm just saying if we end up

[30:04] recommending that

[30:05] >> Well, I like Nathan's idea if we can

[30:08] figure out how to make it happen because

[30:10] that's the issue is the residents who

[30:14] live, you know, who are here all the

[30:16] time pretty much.

[30:17] >> Those are the ones we're supporting.

[30:20] >> That's who we should support. That's my

[30:21] concern. You take the wood off and it's again, it's not I don't have

[30:25] anything just like you don't dislike

[30:26] dogs. I don't have anything against

[30:28] people in town, but we don't need a slew

[30:31] of people riding in at 6:00 a.m. to come

[30:33] walk on the beach and heading out. I

[30:35] mean, if we're trying to solve to get

[30:38] residents accessing the dogs on the

[30:41] beach, you know, let's then let's solve

[30:42] that. Let's not let's not have a

[30:44] solution that

[30:47] I don't care what goes on. You know, the

[30:49] worst argument I think you could ever

[30:51] make is, well, they do it there, so why

[30:53] can't we exactly

[30:55] >> use that? It doesn't make any sense.

[30:57] >> If we're really narrow, if we're really

[31:00] interested in doing this, we have to I

[31:02] just had a few comments. Um um you know,

[31:05] this is the recommendation from the

[31:07] committee here that we were to bring

[31:09] forward. And I'm hearing what you're

[31:11] saying. I mean to me if you open it up

[31:14] to residents only that's like giving

[31:16] free parking to other residents and that

[31:19] wouldn't that wouldn't fly in the media

[31:23] and I don't know if you can do it on the

[31:24] public beach

[31:26] >> this question how do that

[31:28] >> so

[31:30] for me then it would be

[31:32] >> I think it'd be very questionable um

[31:35] >> to do something like that

[31:36] >> I think it'd be hard I think it'd be

[31:38] real hard

[31:39] >> to just do it for the resident Even if

[31:41] they

[31:43] paid

[31:43] >> do I

[31:44] >> even if they paid like 25 bucks or

[31:46] >> I don't know that's a thought but what

[31:47] we could do is

[31:50] >> so far I've heard definitions

[31:51] enforcement cleanup citation and we

[31:54] talked about residential passes and what

[31:57] we can do if you keep discussing it and

[31:58] maybe other things we can we can pass

[32:01] these thoughts to the board of alderman.

[32:03] They they did the board of alderman

[32:05] didn't want this group to hear the dogs

[32:07] on the beach. They definitely wanted you

[32:09] to be a part of it here. But what we can

[32:12] do is uh uh I'm sure you gonna have more

[32:15] comments and more thoughts. So once we

[32:18] take this forward, we can we'll bring it

[32:20] up to the board and see what they say.

[32:24] >> What does any does anybody on as a group

[32:28] um how to say this? How do y'all feel

[32:30] about it like that? How um how do y'all

[32:34] feel about adding a month to each end? I

[32:36] know you're front the turtle nest, but

[32:38] if we if we take out the dogs on the

[32:40] beach from May 1st till November 1st and

[32:46] you're trying the turtle, the way it's

[32:48] written out, they got access to the

[32:50] beach 9 every day for 12 months. They

[32:54] can dig up a nest at 8:00 in the morning

[32:56] or upset turtle nest at 8:00.

[32:58] >> But they can't. That's the whole That's

[32:59] the whole thing that we're we're missing

[33:01] here is the fact that we're worried

[33:03] about a dog going and digging up a

[33:05] turtle. I was just saying the shitty

[33:06] dog,

[33:07] >> but the dog is supposed to be on the

[33:08] leash.

[33:09] >> Exactly.

[33:09] >> So that dog is going to be on the beach

[33:11] regardless.

[33:13] >> I hate to say that, but that dog's going

[33:14] to be on the beach regardless because

[33:16] you're not supposed to be off leash when

[33:18] you're on the beach.

[33:19] >> And so they're not if you're on a leash,

[33:21] they're not running up to the turtle

[33:22] nest that we can see their mark that

[33:24] turtle.

[33:24] >> Like some island will let you bring your

[33:26] dogs year round onto the beach, but it

[33:28] has to be leash up till 9:00 in the

[33:31] morning. Then again again it's a very

[33:33] opposite on the other side. I can't

[33:35] remember the timing but they don't have

[33:37] the same rules. Some of them does not

[33:39] have the same rules as

[33:42] it's different. is you know and you can

[33:45] have them off at least for like an hour.

[33:46] I think it's on SA I can't they're both

[33:48] very confus

[33:51] you can have them I think it's 6 a.m.

[33:53] You have an hour and you have a window

[33:55] and it needs to be they're they're very

[33:57] confused and I can't I always have to

[33:59] get on the website and look to see back

[34:01] when I had it all.

[34:03] >> Yeah, David's right. We never allow

[34:08] » I'm talking about

[34:10] >> I don't think we're considering all

[34:11] dogs, right?

[34:12] >> No, my point is I've seen people when

[34:15] you're supposed to have them on a leash

[34:17] not have a leash. they pushing it over

[34:19] and that's when they get a ticket

[34:21] because they do some

[34:24] they they run a tight ship.

[34:26] >> So to Tony's point the things we want to

[34:28] capture for the alderman or enforcement.

[34:31] I'm hearing that.

[34:32] >> I think

[34:34] >> and I understand the residential path

[34:36] doesn't work, but I think at the crux of

[34:38] that is that this solution might it's

[34:40] opening it's solving way more than the

[34:43] problem. Like what we're trying to do

[34:45] opens up way more access than we're

[34:47] hoping. What what are the other I mean I

[34:51] think enforcement is the biggest one.

[34:53] >> The biggest one.

[34:54] >> Second of all, exactly what you say.

[34:56] We're not

[34:58] as we're addressing 127 or whatever 100

[35:01] people signed that petition or whatever

[35:03] it was. Um we're we're not catering to

[35:06] those 166. What we're now doing is

[35:08] allowing every person that comes over

[35:10] that bridge or lives on the beach to

[35:11] have their dogs on the beach, right? So

[35:14] it's a lot more than 166, I think. So,

[35:16] is there a way we can suggest, like I

[35:18] said, a h happy medium where we can

[35:21] increase 30 days on either end and

[35:23] you're only asking people to take four

[35:25] months out of here, but it's so hot down

[35:27] here and it's so crowded.

[35:30] Keep it on.

[35:32] No, I'm not in favor of that. I think

[35:34] it's a reasonable compromise for 6 to9.

[35:36] I think it's very reasonable. And the

[35:38] thing about enforcement, I mean, you

[35:41] could run down the whole list. Lights on

[35:43] the sidewalk, alcohol on the beach,

[35:45] speed, loud cars.

[35:48] Add it to the list.

[35:49] >> I mean, so you're in favor of I know I I

[35:52] like the ordinance the way it's written.

[35:54] The new the new one. I think the

[35:57] >> dog poops different from

[35:59] >> loud noises. I do.

[36:01] >> I do. I do. I think every concern we

[36:03] have down at the beach is is important.

[36:06] This is the bikes, the loud cars, the

[36:08] speeding. I think it's all important.

[36:10] and you're going to have that no matter

[36:12] what. Um, unless we're going to have a

[36:15] lot more police officers and ride a lot

[36:17] more, we're going to have it. The idea

[36:19] of discriminating and we're saying,

[36:20] "Okay, we're going to be elect." I mean,

[36:23] >> well, I have a thought on that until I

[36:25] interrupt you one second, is because

[36:26] towns would get a permit, let those who

[36:29] want to walk their dogs 695 permit,

[36:32] >> the res or or

[36:34] >> Yeah. And maybe on that, but the idea of

[36:36] just a residence going, that's a public

[36:38] beach down there. Yes. Every so often

[36:42] >> and then every so often we say, "Hey,

[36:44] state of North Carolina make county,

[36:45] give us $30 million, $40 million, $50

[36:48] million."

[36:50] I understand that shouldn't be in our

[36:52] conversation whatsoever. I understand

[36:54] that, but I I guess I'm just responding

[36:56] to the problem. Like we're not getting

[36:58] the request from everyone else and and

[37:01] the solution creates another problem.

[37:04] That's the only thing I would say.

[37:05] >> Anything that's preferential. I

[37:06] understand. I understand. I mean, I was

[37:09] just talking to Tony. This piece of land

[37:10] we're sitting on was given to us by the

[37:12] federal government. Piece of land, you

[37:14] know, so everything we got is a gift.

[37:15] And so any this discrimination stuff, I

[37:18] said, "No way. It'd be bad for us."

[37:20] >> That's because when they gave it to us,

[37:21] they got it flooded. Yeah. But whatever.

[37:24] Um, and and the thing is, if

[37:28] you think about April and May, I mean,

[37:31] if it's a nice day, this place is going

[37:32] to be packed, right? And April, a nice

[37:35] day in April, May be packed. I mean, the

[37:37] traffic can be all the way back up. So,

[37:38] it could be just as busy between April,

[37:40] May as it is on July, July the 4th, it

[37:43] could be very busy because it's just a

[37:45] function. Soon as that weather gets a

[37:46] little better, it'll be packed. So, you

[37:48] know, by I kind of like the idea of no

[37:51] dogs on the beach after 9:00. I like

[37:53] that. I like that. That's when all the

[37:55] people are here. Most of the time, if

[37:56] you're walking down the early in the

[37:58] mornings, it's not that crowded early in

[38:00] the morning. Um, sure. Can the dog run

[38:02] away? He's going to run away. Is he

[38:04] going to dig something up? Yeah. CL

[38:06] somebody's going to cover that's going

[38:07] to happen. Um they do it the rest of

[38:09] year. Um I just think it's a reasonable

[38:12] compromise that these guys have come up

[38:15] with. Uh and if I add one more thing to

[38:17] it, I think it's easy to understand too

[38:19] because one thing is you know when you

[38:20] come down to the beach is like it's like

[38:22] 40 rules you got to follow. Okay. Make

[38:24] sure I don't break all these rules. So

[38:26] you got to kind of read them all. This I

[38:28] think is reasonable to understand. Okay.

[38:30] no dogs on the lease when after 9:00 and

[38:33] you can't go past this this beach access

[38:35] and this one. I think that would be

[38:37] that's reasonable. I think people could

[38:39] get behind that. Don't go to the south

[38:41] end pass where it 42 north end pass

[38:45] number two. I think that kind of makes

[38:46] sense and most of the time that's

[38:48] blocked off anyway and it blocked off

[38:49] most of the summer on the south end. I

[38:52] think most of the time it's got it's

[38:54] fenced off anyway kind of sort of but uh

[38:56] we did have the I can't remember her

[38:58] name. I call her the first lady. Uh she

[39:01] was in the meetings and so was Nancy,

[39:03] the other Nancy. Okay. Uh the turtle

[39:06] lady.

[39:09] But one of the things uh that I think we

[39:12] need to send to the alderman as a

[39:14] recommendation along with whatever we do

[39:16] is and it was discussed in the meeting

[39:18] very thoroughly, we need better signage.

[39:22] Um, when you just say no dogs on the

[39:25] beach,

[39:27] it shouldn't say something like we're

[39:29] serious. The fine is and I think the

[39:31] fine's too low.

[39:33] >> The fine

[39:35] >> Yeah, I think it's too low.

[39:37] >> If we're serious about this, the fine

[39:38] needs to be higher. I mean, the federal

[39:40] government fine for for

[39:43] messing with a uh nesting sea turtle is

[39:47] $100,000.

[39:48] >> That's pretty serious. Well,

[39:50] >> 500 bucks is nothing to

[39:52] >> Well, people we got, you know, you walk

[39:54] out on your public, you got a sign and

[39:56] it goes against rules or whatever and

[39:58] one and people will read that sign and

[40:00] still walk up there light up cigarettes

[40:03] still get their beer open which you know

[40:06] I think as long as you keep it lowkey

[40:07] and you're not out there choking or

[40:10] whatever that shelf is like I've seen on

[40:11] the beach for the most part but but

[40:15] there going to be people that 9:00's

[40:17] going to roll around they're I almost

[40:20] stay and I'm trying to get away with it

[40:22] and find

[40:24] and all you saw again. There's a where

[40:27] breaches in this is a very rough area of

[40:29] water. You're not supposed to be out

[40:30] there. They got a sign and it is as big.

[40:33] The sign is as big as this wall right

[40:35] here and it says no swimming, no

[40:38] waiting, no. And the fine is something

[40:40] like 2743.

[40:42] It's just some weird amount. And he go

[40:45] out in that water every time. Every

[40:48] time. And I'm, you know, I walk out

[40:50] there, my feet wet, but I don't go

[40:51] swimming out there because the current

[40:53] will take you, but they still, you can

[40:55] sign all you want, too. The same thing

[40:57] down here. Yeah. And and it's so

[41:00] dangerous.

[41:00] >> And yeah, there are a lot of rules, no

[41:02] drink, no this for that.

[41:05] >> Did you propose a higher civil penalty

[41:07] when you were on the committee?

[41:08] >> I did. And I didn't win,

[41:11] >> obviously.

[41:12] >> So, you proposed $1,000 and nobody

[41:14] supported you?

[41:15] >> Uh, I'm not going to say no one did. I

[41:17] don't remember exactly what the count

[41:19] was, but we settled on 500.

[41:22] >> Um,

[41:24] and Mike Haynes keeps reminding us it's

[41:26] a it's a pilot program. We're going to

[41:28] try it for one whole season, one whole

[41:30] year. Um, and

[41:33] >> turn it back around again.

[41:36] >> Well, that's going to be up to the

[41:37] alderman and we're going to have to put

[41:39] that in our recommendation to them that

[41:41] we all better monitor this accurately.

[41:44] So, we've got some statistics and

[41:46] because I would venture to say if we

[41:48] went out and asked people to sign a

[41:50] petition

[41:52] for not doing this, we'd probably get

[41:54] 166 signatures in opposition. So, um I

[41:59] think you know I guess we go ahead and

[42:02] pass this somehow and and um see what

[42:06] happens. So I think I think what we need

[42:08] to do is I think we've given a bunch of

[42:10] suggestions to Tony, but I think the

[42:11] first thing we need to do

[42:13] >> is make a recommend um decide

[42:17] based on what we have

[42:19] >> how we feel about how we feel about

[42:21] that. Would it come down to us sending a

[42:24] favorable recommendation to a new or

[42:27] >> I think yeah I think what we can do is

[42:29] look at what we have and um

[42:32] >> like

[42:42] I think that's that's what we did what

[42:43] we have to write down some of our

[42:45] suggestions

[42:48] >> I've got right here definitions

[42:50] enforcement clean up citation. We talked

[42:53] about residential passes,

[42:58] » how many 30 days. We talked about fees,

[43:02] better signage, and increased fines. I

[43:05] mean, that's just things.

[43:07] >> And from and a registration piece, too,

[43:09] because I'm still just that's just

[43:11] something that came up when folks were

[43:12] asking me is when how do you register?

[43:16] Do we make it more expensive to

[43:18] register?

[43:20] I think $10. If you're going to walk

[43:21] your dog on the beach and you're that

[43:23] passionate about it, you want to do it,

[43:25] charge a little bit more.

[43:27] >> I'd also would want to consider I'm all

[43:30] about pilot programs. Try if it doesn't work, toss it, but can we

[43:36] look at this after 30 days, after 60

[43:39] days with like with data behind it, not

[43:41] just say, "Hey, we looked at it. This is

[43:42] what Shannon saw." But like, you know,

[43:45] we videoed driving down the beach three

[43:48] times every Monday, Wednesday, Friday

[43:51] from 6:00 to 9:00. We went out there

[43:53] with a camera and we saw what it looked

[43:55] like. And after 30 days, we're looking

[43:57] at it and we're having the discussion

[43:59] board of alderman looking at they say,

[44:00] "Whoa, this is really bad." But we may

[44:02] say, "Wow, this is great." We don't know

[44:05] unless it's something we actually look

[44:06] at. So, um I would just like to see if

[44:10] we do move forward with it and vote in

[44:12] favor of send it to the alderman that

[44:14] it's

[44:16] we're looking at it not just waiting

[44:18] till next year. Um so that

[44:22] >> well that was discussed in the committee

[44:24] and Haynes brought up a good point.

[44:26] You're not going to know

[44:28] >> in a month a little snapshot of a month

[44:30] or two. It doesn't take you through the

[44:33] holidays. It doesn't take you through

[44:35] the nesting season. that and I agreed I

[44:38] think everybody on the committee agreed

[44:40] with Haynes on that one. A pilot program

[44:43] needs to be a whole season

[44:45] unfortunately.

[44:47] Uh but I think that's the only accurate

[44:50] way to do it. Um there

[44:53] >> the biggest the biggest is are we in

[44:57] is the what what is the number one

[44:59] biggest concern that we have as a as a

[45:01] board? It sounds like you need

[45:03] enforcement like enforcement and I don't

[45:06] think we have the staff

[45:09] >> enforcement

[45:10] 6 a.m. I don't I think Shannon I don't

[45:13] know that he comes very often at 6:00

[45:15] a.m. at 7 and it's just the two guys. So

[45:18] they're going to have to take turns

[45:20] somehow coming at 6:00 a.m. because you

[45:23] got to if you're going to have it at 6,

[45:24] it's got to be monitored at six. So the enforcement is really difficult.

[45:30] Plus the fact that this beach is very

[45:33] like takes an hour and a half to get

[45:34] down the beach.

[45:35] >> Yeah.

[45:36] >> And I think the messaging because people

[45:39] are gonna say dogs on the beach in the

[45:40] summertime.

[45:42] >> They're going to see that one part and

[45:43] they're just going to not even look at

[45:44] six.

[45:45] >> Exactly.

[45:46] >> So the messaging is is absolutely

[45:49] critical. And that big sign at the

[45:51] entrance, no dogs on the beach. Okay.

[45:54] But like, can we get something that's a

[45:56] little bit more cleancut, a little bit

[45:58] nicer, not just a big DOT sign that says

[46:01] no dogs on the beach?

[46:03] >> It's just like the signs we put out that

[46:04] says noise and speed zone and you know,

[46:08] we had it for a while strictly enforced.

[46:11] No, it's not.

[46:13] >> No, it's not.

[46:14] >> Uh, to answer Adam's question, I I found

[46:16] my notes. Um,

[46:19] Hayne said in 2024 there were 43 dogs

[46:23] registered.

[46:27] » In 2025 it went up to 50. Now I'm going

[46:30] to admit I've lived here since 2009. I

[46:33] didn't know we were supposed to buy a

[46:34] tag every year.

[46:36] >> Uh, so I'm going to run down and buy

[46:38] one, but I don't know what good that

[46:40] does.

[46:43] So you're not

[46:52] charging.

[46:53] >> Let's um

[46:55] let's take a vote on are we interested

[46:59] in allowing

[47:01] dogs on moving this forward? Yeah.

[47:05] >> Or what what did you say? I think we

[47:07] would be voting and you correct me like

[47:10] voting on whether we want to move

[47:12] forward with this pilot program as

[47:14] written, right?

[47:15] >> Yes. And I will give them um the

[47:17] comments no matter one way or the other.

[47:19] We'll just say here are the comments

[47:21] from the board it don't approve it.

[47:25] >> And and I think that that that you know

[47:27] they'll understand they're all

[47:29] >> I mean fortunately two of them are here

[47:31] but they'll get more color than just the

[47:33] yes or no.

[47:35] So,

[47:36] >> and Tony, if you can capitalize

[47:38] enforcement.

[47:40] >> So, I guess what we'll do would in favor

[47:44] of moving this pilot program forward.

[47:48] >> Oh, you want to vote? That's why you're

[47:50] going to do a motion. You want to vote?

[47:51] >> I just We don't even need a motion

[47:52] because what they're asking is for

[47:56] >> I'm willing to compromise.

[47:58] We're willing to move it forward. Wait a

[48:00] minute. What? What? So you you're

[48:02] looking at this as the compromise, the

[48:03] new thing that

[48:06] >> in general, I think. What are we

[48:08] interested in general in moving the

[48:10] conversation of limited access of dogs

[48:12] in the beach board? Not necessarily what

[48:14] what's on piece of paper right here. And

[48:16] if we have a favorable recommendation,

[48:18] then Tony also can fill in everything

[48:21] that we all concerns. Yeah.

[48:23] >> Well, like I was said, there alone here,

[48:25] so they've heard it. Now, I will I do

[48:27] want to say one thing, Mr. chair before

[48:28] we vote. The uh folks who brought this

[48:33] forward wanted to do the same thing in

[48:36] the evening. Let them out on the beach

[48:38] during the evening and they proposed no,

[48:43] let's not do that because in the evening

[48:45] people are a little, you know, have a

[48:47] little bit of wine. they're less

[48:48] responsible and the folks who want to

[48:51] walk their dogs out on the beach are

[48:54] getting up with a cup of coffee and

[48:56] walking out there from their home or

[48:57] they're

[48:58] >> plus it's dark at night too so it's

[49:00] harder to see

[49:01] >> in the summertime they want to be able

[49:04] to

[49:04] >> in the evening and they were the one

[49:06] that pulled that proposal from the from

[49:10] this recommendation so I had to hand it

[49:12] to them they compromised on that one

[49:16] >> I would think the change has second. But

[49:18] the enforcement thing really bothers me

[49:21] to say yes, I think you ought to try

[49:23] this because I don't think we are

[49:24] capable of enforcement.

[49:27] >> That's what bothers me the most.

[49:29] >> And and I think I still think just just

[49:31] because we're not allowing we're

[49:32] allowing residents to walk their dogs on

[49:35] the beach and non-residents not. I don't

[49:37] think it's discrimination. They're still

[49:39] allowed.

[49:40] >> Well, after we talk that one through, I

[49:41] agree that's not not fair. But if there

[49:44] was a way to

[49:47] I don't know, get a like a pass

[49:49] for that beach for everybody. But

[49:52] anyway, I mean

[49:55] automatically if you are walking your

[49:57] dog, you absolutely should be

[49:59] registered.

[50:00] >> Yeah. Regardless if you if you're a

[50:02] visitor or not, you still have to have

[50:04] >> Is there a fine associated with not

[50:06] registering all that?

[50:09] >> So there could be a fine $500 fine for

[50:12] >> it's not being and then there could be a

[50:15] separate fine for oh by the way you're

[50:16] on the beach you're not supposed to be

[50:17] after 9 but also you're not registered

[50:20] so here's another $500 fine.

[50:21] >> But if you live somewhere else say

[50:23] you're coming down for a week you can

[50:24] register your dog. Say you're from

[50:25] Raleigh and you bring a dog, you can

[50:29] >> I think a lot of people didn't.

[50:30] >> No, you know, you you just have to

[50:31] register your animal somewhere.

[50:33] >> Okay.

[50:34] >> Yeah. Not if you bring a dog from

[50:36] Wilmington, you don't have to register

[50:38] right from Beach. It just has to be.

[50:41] >> Yeah. And usually when you get your

[50:43] vaccine, they does that for you.

[50:47] >> Okay.

[50:47] >> Yeah. Now, rightful beach is different

[50:49] because you have to have a rightful

[50:51] beach. I know this cuz I got cancer. You

[50:54] register a cat here, not with the

[50:56] county.

[50:57] >> Okay.

[50:58] >> I'm supposed to register all those feral

[51:00] cats at my house.

[51:01] >> 22 kittens.

[51:03] >> I have like

[51:05] this.

[51:06] >> So, let's So, I Who would be in favor of

[51:09] moving some sort of pilot program

[51:10] forward that allow limited access for

[51:12] dogs? I should be in favor of it, but

[51:14] also just

[51:15] >> there's a lot of

[51:17] >> Yes. And with two of the boardman here

[51:20] just I think we've had really good

[51:21] discussion, but I do have concerns, but

[51:24] I also, you know, it's a year, right?

[51:29] So, understanding that there's a lot of

[51:32] things that can happen between now and

[51:33] then, but I still have some concerns.

[51:35] But in regards to the pilot program as

[51:37] it's written, I would

[51:38] >> It's hard to vote yes or no.

[51:40] That's not one last comment. I would

[51:43] assume that the board of alderman if

[51:45] they if we get into the halfway of this

[51:47] pilot program and we've got problems

[51:50] they'll cancel it.

[51:51] >> I would say they have the authority to

[51:52] cancel.

[51:54] >> Yeah, that's written in there.

[51:55] >> So I think we can forward a favorable

[51:57] recommendation.

[51:58] >> What's the vote?

[52:00] >> I think it's six to one.

[52:00] >> It's a question mark. Well, we're not we

[52:03] need

[52:04] >> but not as needs to be a motion and a

[52:07] vote

[52:10] and I think the motion has to be as

[52:11] written. We'll then enforce

[52:14] all

[52:15] someone you're making a motion as

[52:17] written.

[52:17] >> As written.

[52:19] >> All in favor?

[52:22] All

[52:24] right. The two against

[52:30] I think in the comments

[52:31] >> I'll get the comments.

[52:32] >> I think the board is very open to to

[52:35] >> I think it would have been I think it's

[52:36] better instead of taking the vote on the

[52:38] actual what we just voted on. I think

[52:41] it's much more productive for the

[52:42] audience to understand that we are we

[52:45] understand there's a lot of things we

[52:46] have concerns with but when we are

[52:49] favorable in terms of looking at

[52:51] something that we can develop

[52:54] down

[52:58] » you shouldn't have asked for

[53:01] we had a six to1 favorable

[53:03] >> I have to

[53:05] remind

[53:12] Agenda item Bach

[53:26] agenda item.

[53:27] >> Yeah, we're I'm gonna turn the rings

[53:29] over.

[53:30] >> Okay.

[53:36] » All right.

[53:40] » Go ahead.

[53:40] >> Plan board. This is give you some

[53:42] background. Typically, this plan, the hazard, the original hazard

[53:47] mitigation plan has never gone through

[53:48] the plan board. It's been advertised on

[53:51] our website for the past uh probably for

[53:53] the past year. The draft uh ordinances

[53:57] uh is here if if you want to look at it.

[54:00] It's a a plan, a reasonable plan that we

[54:03] went in with Brun County, Kendra County,

[54:06] you had over in Hslo County. Um, but

[54:09] it's it's a plan that helps out during

[54:11] disasters. That's it right there. Yeah,

[54:14] that's it there. It's online.

[54:18] >> So, there's only two sections that you

[54:20] have to look at, but this is going

[54:21] moving forward to the board of alderman

[54:24] uh at the next week's meeting. They'll

[54:27] hopefully pass it with the resolution.

[54:30] um every five years the town did not

[54:32] have to pay for this. Uh a private

[54:34] company come up with it. Staff does give

[54:37] comments on it and during this past year

[54:39] is is Bailey's put it on the town's

[54:42] website and asked for comments and we

[54:45] didn't receive any but

[54:48] >> yeah the town manager just wanted to let

[54:51] y'all be aware of it and uh like I say

[54:54] it's going to the board of alderman next

[54:56] week. If you have any comments, I'll be

[54:58] glad to give it to them. So, what do

[55:00] they do?

[55:01] >> Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead.

[55:03] >> Are they just going to accept it? Is

[55:04] that what they do typically? Just they

[55:06] say we accept bill consent agenda. There

[55:09] may be a few questions here and there,

[55:11] but basically staff put some comments on

[55:14] it. Like one of the things we added this

[55:16] year was for a bulkhead installation was

[55:19] to put that in there in case we get

[55:21] damaged during a storm. Maybe we can get

[55:23] some reimbursements from the federal

[55:25] government on those things. Now is that

[55:27] when you says a plan, it's stuff is

[55:29] activity go forward, right? Go forward

[55:32] activity in there.

[55:33] >> There's actions or things that you want

[55:35] to do actions and most of it's backed up

[55:37] by county. If you look at it, we piggy

[55:40] back with county on this. And how far is

[55:43] the plan go out?

[55:45] >> Four, five year. Every five years this

[55:47] is due. So So that the action steps in

[55:50] are to occur over the next five years.

[55:52] >> Yes. And sometimes they may delay. It

[55:54] just depends on funding. So, just wanted

[55:56] to bring it to your attention. There was

[55:58] no advertisement requirements on this.

[56:00] Uh, so this is the first time. So, if

[56:03] you got comments, I'll be glad to share

[56:05] it with them.

[56:06] >> I I did I didn't read the whole thing,

[56:08] but I did. Tony's got it very well

[56:10] flagged for section 7 to nine. It's

[56:12] focused on that. And it's more it looks

[56:15] more ominous than it is because there's

[56:17] like a page for

[56:19] >> every municipality on every subject. So,

[56:22] that's why it got so thick. But the only

[56:24] thing that I noticed, Tony, that it's

[56:26] always bothered me is um and a lot of

[56:29] municipalities do not have this, but we

[56:31] do not have a post disaster

[56:33] redevelopment ordinance. And I've always

[56:36] wondered what happens when we get the

[56:38] big blow it destroys downtown,

[56:42] >> you know, and I get that question from

[56:43] the highrises all the time.

[56:45] >> Yeah.

[56:46] >> Sue Sue will ask that question. Sue Bull

[56:48] all the time.

[56:49] >> And I think this is what you got to say.

[56:51] Let's say Cat Path towers. Mhm.

[56:53] >> What happens tomorrow if that goes down?

[56:56] Well, there's going to be a lot of

[56:57] things that happen. Those individuals

[56:59] are going to get together, attorney up,

[57:01] change text amendments, ordinances,

[57:03] lawsuits to build it back, and maybe a

[57:06] little bit higher.

[57:07] >> So, I think it's it's difficult to write

[57:10] a post disaster ordinance to cover

[57:14] everything. I think it's it it happens

[57:17] just like if we have a fire in one of

[57:18] these places. Yeah. I think

[57:21] unfortunately I don't know if other

[57:22] communities do. I'll be glad to look at

[57:24] that.

[57:25] >> Most of them don't.

[57:26] >> Yeah, most looked at the list. Most of

[57:28] them don't. But I guess I was thinking

[57:30] and you make a good point about the

[57:32] highrises. I hadn't thought about those,

[57:33] but I'm thinking about downtown where

[57:36] you've got individual little ownerships,

[57:38] >> right?

[57:39] >> And if we lose that and we lose it for a

[57:42] long time, what happens to the town

[57:46] economy?

[57:47] >> Yeah. And should we try to get a

[57:49] disaster plan in place maybe just for

[57:51] that section?

[57:52] >> We we we could and we get questions

[57:54] about that. One of the things that may

[57:56] have to happen, you know, those

[57:58] individuals

[58:00] may have to come and ask for exemptions,

[58:03] variances on their businesses to put

[58:05] them.

[58:06] >> Yeah. They have that happen. Yeah. It's

[58:10] just like a code upgrade. You burn the

[58:12] ground. You don't get to build it back

[58:13] the way it's before with the old wiring.

[58:15] You gota you got to go to the new code

[58:17] >> pretty much pretty much anything you

[58:20] know fire

[58:21] >> dock gets knocked down everything's you

[58:23] couldn't build your house back the way

[58:24] you had

[58:25] >> and you wouldn't but you know had to

[58:28] tear down

[58:29] >> but we get those questions from the

[58:30] yacht club all the time Caroline parking

[58:35] >> but

[58:35] >> I was just thinking if we had a disaster

[58:38] yeah what do they call it a post

[58:40] disaster redevelopment ordinance in

[58:43] place just for the downtown area. It

[58:46] would expedite their ability to reel.

[58:50] >> It's not that we have to do tomorrow,

[58:51] but it seems to me that, you know,

[58:54] >> I'll look into it.

[58:55] >> Might want to consider doing that.

[58:57] >> Like I'd like to know what happened to

[58:58] the people in California that's in that

[59:00] area. They're just sitting there.

[59:02] They're not getting any permits.

[59:04] >> I was thinking the exact same thing you

[59:06] were.

[59:07] >> That's a good suggestion. Would it just

[59:09] burn? And what about Hawaii?

[59:11] >> Where would we think

[59:13] about

[59:14] with what drink.

[59:16] >> But you know, the thing is it's it's not

[59:17] just what the town does because you got

[59:19] the state building codes. I mean, you

[59:21] can't override those, right?

[59:23] >> Got to follow the state building

[59:25] accessibility.

[59:26] >> Yeah. So, it's like layer on top of

[59:28] layer.

[59:29] >> Yeah. You know,

[59:29] >> but look how long it'll take.

[59:32] >> I don't disagree with what you're

[59:33] saying. I think it's a good idea, but

[59:34] it's just like you can't the town just

[59:36] can't wave their hand and say, "Well,

[59:37] we're not going to adhere to the state.

[59:39] We ought to get something." So we don't

[59:42] need to

[59:44] truth that you the state will over

[59:46] >> well you have to of course the state

[59:48] don't know yet

[59:49] >> yeah but there are things that when I

[59:52] say the channel the board of automan can

[59:54] give variances to blood things like that

[59:57] they don't like to but they can

[59:59] >> so we don't need to do anything on this

[1:00:01] >> I'm just tell them I introduce it to you

[1:00:04] and move to them we'll see what and

[1:00:07] Robert's got the last one

[1:00:08] >> we're going to move on to agenda Item C.

[1:00:13] That's right. She's in

[1:00:14] >> charge.

[1:00:21] Pardon me, ma'am.

[1:00:25] » Okay.

[1:00:30] » Sorry. This is just uh this isn't

[1:00:34] anything that needs to be voted on. This

[1:00:35] is just that uh every year we put

[1:00:37] together the planning board u um the

[1:00:41] planning board report which is just a

[1:00:43] compilation of all the planning board

[1:00:45] packets uh from the previous year. I

[1:00:48] include an executive summary,

[1:00:50] attendance, all the um all the agenda

[1:00:53] items and the votes uh on those agenda

[1:00:56] items and then include uh the packet

[1:01:00] sort of as a as a uh table of contents

[1:01:04] for you to review. Um it's nothing that

[1:01:07] you haven't seen. It's just there's a

[1:01:09] brief summary in the very beginning

[1:01:11] followed by all of your packets and then

[1:01:13] we file it away in case we need to refer

[1:01:16] to something quickly. Yeah,

[1:01:17] >> that's that's all it is. This is a we

[1:01:20] present it to the board of alderman. Uh

[1:01:22] Tony wanted to put it on the agenda

[1:01:24] tonight just as just as a heads up just

[1:01:27] to say that yes indeed we did complete

[1:01:30] it.

[1:01:31] >> What's the year? What's the year date?

[1:01:33] Is it December 31st for the town?

[1:01:36] >> Uh

[1:01:36] >> what what's the year?

[1:01:37] >> It goes until Janu uh it goes until

[1:01:39] January. The end of because that's when

[1:01:42] the calendar year ends.

[1:01:43] >> Yeah, that's what what's the town's

[1:01:44] calendar year. Um, well, it it would run

[1:01:48] with the elections when the board

[1:01:50] changes.

[1:01:50] >> Oh, right. Right.

[1:01:52] >> So, they take over in January and then

[1:01:54] >> Yes.

[1:01:55] >> You read it.

[1:01:56] >> I read the page of J.

[1:01:58] >> I uh Robert, there is one uh

[1:02:02] >> found one mistake in there, Robert.

[1:02:04] >> Well, I don't know that really matters,

[1:02:06] but it says in there that I replaced uh

[1:02:09] Cheryl.

[1:02:10] >> Okay.

[1:02:10] >> And I didn't. Uh either Adam or uh

[1:02:15] Andrew.

[1:02:16] >> Andrew did.

[1:02:17] and then I replaced Andrew.

[1:02:19] He had to leave.

[1:02:22] >> Yeah.

[1:02:23] >> So that's the only thing I saw and I

[1:02:26] don't know.

[1:02:26] >> So Cheryl came off of because of terms

[1:02:30] out.

[1:02:31] >> Andrew came off because he moved off the

[1:02:33] beach.

[1:02:34] >> Yeah. He was on for a couple months.

[1:02:36] >> You got him in the in the middle.

[1:02:38] >> We rather have you rather have him.

[1:02:43] I'll adjust the report. I'll just switch

[1:02:45] up that one and

[1:02:46] >> change that one.

[1:02:47] >> I'll change that one page and call it.

[1:02:50] Thank you.

[1:02:54] » Well, I read the summary.

[1:02:58] >> So, if there's nothing else with it, is

[1:03:01] there a motion to adjourn?

[1:03:03] >> I move.

[1:03:04] >> A second.

[1:03:06] You'll need a man crush, not a mad

[1:03:08] actor.

Planning Board Meeting 3 3 2026

Agenda

Transcript